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manufacturing is such an underrated field to grok. looking forward to this

Interesting to think of this in regards to the I Ching

👍

I'm so glad you're speaking about Maps of Meaning. Most people don't seem to have read it. I often say that if you've read Maps of Meaning and listened to the Transliminal interviews, you don't need to consume any more Peterson content. Mostly because it is a simplified repetition of those ideas.

I love the discussion about dating and instantiation. If anything it seems the culture of asking girls out stays in a sector of its own apart from more traditional lines--party culture or like that. It's not as much an easy deal in church or in another setting, at work, walking around, on the phone; that's given how much the culture itself in those spaces denies good intent for instantiation. I actually in earlier years looked down on couples who were dating or talking about it. It felt like they were bypassing a system to make marriage a better fit for everyone, but now it seems more obvious they were grasping at slippery fish in deep water and there was no system to be had. Either way, you don't get what you don't ask for or you don't get what you don't tell anyone you want. Wait, if this is part 1 that means there's more. I enjoy listening, Karen, probably for several reasons, but one of them is you're just easy to listen to and you don't disappoint. Cheers

14:04 "Humility is an ideal you reach for all the time" Well said ma'am

I've noticed that Peterson has all but dropped the individualism talk. Peterson and Pageau published a paper titled "Identity: Individual and the State versus the Subsidiary Hierarchy of Heaven" at the ARC conference. It's possible that Pageau has evangelised Peterson towards the idea of subsidiarity.

So nice to see Olena again. My definition of humility is knowing one's lane and working in that lane to the best of our ability. In there, there is selflessness, responsibility, respect, maturity, self-control, the restraint of emotionalism. And never ever cruise in the left lane. Ok, that last part has nothing to do with humility but it just bugs me when people do it, haha.

Karen and Olena - what a platonically Beautiful dialogos. I will be sharing this with my wife and daughters to showcase the immense value that the feminine mind and spirit can bring to a very male-centric space and topic. Sidenote: the generational interplay is also inspiring to behold. Again, a Beautiful model to appreciate and emulate. Bravo. 🙏🏼

Most people have difficulty initiating things. Tied to poor anxiety management. In my case the solution is by surrendering not by forcing. A dialog is more difficult than if you are just facing a task.

Olena ... another young woman you may like runs the YT channel ... Po's Law.

Karen, you are describing an acrostic. Some Psalms are acrostic.

IT people are puzzlers.

Great chat, thank you. Fun background for me as I read OOTSP to our children. Quibble for Karen: can followers of Jesus speak uncritically of 'their tax money'? ("Whose face is on this coin?")

So a hidden Satanic influence on American children in 80s was coming from the department of education, so much for D&D and rock music being the big evils!

This was very much needed and wanted discussion. Thank you Karen for sharing. Yeah, I have my own knowledge of how bad it could probably be. But, you're both right, dont fear, embody and participate in your life.

Another thing I notice is that there are some very intelligent people, some highly educated, some not, who like to think they are the smartest people in the room. They look for and find information that others haven’t seen or considered. This trait can lead to great discoveries. It can also lead to embracing ideas that are “fringe”, contrary and conspiratorial. Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson come to mind. They are both climate crisis deniers. There’s always some contrarian scientist they can quote. The huge majority of scientists are rightly pointing out the evidence that shows we are in trouble. But, these kinds of Russel Brand wide eyed rantings get lots of clicks. Follow the money. God save us.

Pursuing conspiracy theories is a total waste of time & brain power, which Karen just attested to. I feel sorry for younger folks (I’m 75) who were raised in the fantasy/conspiracy culture and are so overwhelmed and uneducated that they lack critical thinking skills. Mr. Trump and his “fake news “ mantra, Fox News peddling hate, lies and fear for money, (Republicans enabling the Oligarchy) and Sycophants feeding at the trough of greed and power have come close to destroying common sense and our country. Please don’t vote for Trump and a Republican administration. They long long ago sold their souls and know it. Manipulation, fear and division is their game,. Wake up.

I knew of PVK from IDW days thru J Peterson days. I didn't do Discord (BoM?). I got re-engaged when PVK started a flotilla of TLC channel buddies. I wanted to share that PVK has done great work for our corner of the on-line religious community and for Embody groups like Estuary. I hope you enjoy your time at Northwestuary this month.

The Lifeboat story!! 5th grade. Iowa. Early 1970's. It did help to clarify my values. I decided that the only agency a 5th grader has in that situation is to either stay in the boat or jump in the water.

I wish I got to play D&D with Grim

“Action is more important than the artifact.” Ugh yes. I feel this is the central tension in my life. 😓

Thank you so much for this conversation. Valerie is delightful and talented, as you are as well, Karen. It’s double delightful! 😀

This was a very engaging discussion, and I was taken by the notion that there is no greater way to split people apart than to make them incapable of remembering reality, or to divide them through giving them all different memories. That’s an excellent insight, and this discussion brought to mind the work of Paul Virilio, who I think highly of, and who the scholars “Owen in Agon” and Joshua Hansen teach powerfully on. I also agree that as reality becomes harder to identify via deep fakes, etc., that face-to-face interactions and trust will become all the more important. And I think such networks and resources like this will become all the more important with time as the temptation to look at conspiracies (and so become like them, as you pointed out) becomes all the greater (because there is indeed something fun about feeling scared-that was spot on). Anyway, a truly excellent discussion: thank you both!

There’s gold in this video, push through it

500 views after one day. Impressive.

Karen's story of the sex Ed is bracing stuff!

This video is brilliant guerilla marketing by Nate for Northwestuary. Can't wait to see you all there!

I know what I know and I know that I know it the problem is but I tried to tell you what it is that I know it all falls apart object cause of desire/object a

A lot of hard gained wisdom shared in this conversation. Shine on, Karen and General! ✨❤️

Great conversation. Thank you both.🎉

I fail to see the link to Griz's channel? 👍 Just a friendly reminder ❤

this one is something else, I've heard similar things but it has brought it all together in one place to really makes you think.

38:00 the mythic object which is the secret in grim's mind

🫴👓🕺🪓🪵💪🚰

I really enjoyed this, thank you both. Many things to contemplate. I am finishing with an appreciation for Griz on his words on who, what and where my time investment can actually make an impact, as well as a deep respect for the way you worked to make change, Karen. Always love your willing transparency. ❤

🎲 🐿️! 🕸️

Go grimm 👍

I will have a car, and be available to pick folks up from Airport also

I approve of religious conspiracy. The Passover Plot. Re-enchantment is how you break the pass the 4th wall in reverse into being a religious believer. Happened to me.

Memory hole, the Berenstein Bears? Actual was Berenstain. As attention spans shrink, we become sock puppets like the Taco Bell Chihuahua ;-) Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Psychology Field Theory is real. Trolly problems are part of the programming.

Griz popped in my feed and I couldn't resist clicking. I'm glad I did. This was an interesting discussion. My key insight was this: You might not be fully aware, but just as politics became a rabbit hole that many after the events of 9/11 got lost in, interpersonal spaces such as TLC are now the new maze that many are navigating in the post-pandemic landscape. Both areas reflect a desire for control, suggesting that by mastering either the political realm or our personal connections, we might be able to avert the next social cataclysm.

Karen, the Brits still keep secrets from the War of 1812 ... and much evidence was destroyed regarding the Lincoln assassination. Section 31 is real. Sir Francis Walsingham was spymaster for QE 1st in the 16th century ... grandfather of all of this cloak and dagger.

Don't reveal all the secrets Comrade Grim ;-) Wiiliam Casey and Yuri Bezmenov are watching.

I want to expand on Griz's description of kayfabe: you also have "works" and "shoots". A "work" is something that is scripted. A "shoot" is something that is someone having a reaction to an event or some outside event that is unscripted. Sometimes this will look like a "whistleblower". Now, this is where it gets fun: you can also have things that look like "shoots", but that are also actually "works". These are "contained opposition" kinds of scenarios. Sometimes you'll hear a wrestler say "OK now I'm going to be serious", for example. Or they grab a mic and start walking backstage with a camera following them, etc. And you can also have "shoots" that get worked back into the narrative and integrated, where it's very difficult to discern what is scripted and what is something genuine happening, or whether the scripted outrage is part of the script.

When I was a young man, I worked at a children's museum that was focused on literature, narrative, and story. It was a magical place to work. Anyway, one of their trademarks are "participlays", where you bring kids out of the audience, dress them in costumes, and tell a story (we used fairy tales) while the kids are dressed in costumes on the stage, acting out the stories while the narrator is telling the story. In other words, kayfabe of a sort. The narrator would frequently adapt the story as they went, in response to some of the actors or the audience. The big difference is that in the irl kayfabe we live in, there are multiple layers of this happening at once, where lower stories feed up into higher stories and back down and all kinds of irl stuff happening that gets woven back into the narrative and it's just all...well...who is Vince McMahon?

1:03:00 As far as I know: To a Buddhist, that is like saying 1 + 1 = green. ❤ Completely missing the point, in every aspect. 🙃 It seems like Rafe also only knows "California Buddhism", which really seems to be a "protestant literalism Buddhism". 😶 No hate, only Love. ❤️ Mark Parker seems to understand the depth of Buddhism the best; out of all TLC interactions I've had so far. 👍❤️

TH-camrs - what is the reference to "the butler" they're discussing? Thanks

Karen piece from 1:12:00 ish onward is an excellent clip

13:00 there’s actually a 4th layer, which is the actors acting in accordance with the script, but inevitably bringing their own individuality into the mix.