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If the vast majority of people were aware of everything in AA, then the cult would vanish. It’s as if we can’t replace AA with things that actually work

I'd like to touch up on the "starry eyed" phenomenon of twelve step and other religious societies... You know, that trance like euphoric state of being that envelopes various people especially in early stages of involvement. Many refer to it as "pink cloud". I went through it. I think it was the hooking mechanism for me that I would go on to attribute to the organization and stay chasing for over a decade. I saw the look in many people over the years. It was described in the Big Book when Ebby came to talk with Bill. Bill was taken by the starry-eyed look of Ebby... I think that initial vulnerability of coming off substances has people in a high susceptibility to brainwashing . That is the "Spiritual experience" that people yearn for. But that experience is often mistakenly attributed to twelve step or other religious denominations. For me, in that state of extreme vulnerability and desire to feel connected to a spiritual purpose I felt it had something to do with twelve step. Or at least the basic idea... So being really naive to the reality of the twelve step agenda I kept coming back and eventually stayed. I kept trying to find my place within it. I help start twelve step meetings. I completely devoted myself to the community. I placed it before everything. I was completely convinced that my problems would give way to the promises. I only had small windows of feeling connected. Eventually that nagging feeling inside, that dissonance would be too much evidence that I was in wrong place. I made up my mind and gave myself an exit date. Gave up my positions in groups and left. It has been a little over a year now and only through that time have I been able to understand that I was indeed in a cult mentality. My life is not magically healed in that time in fact life's struggles continue. But man I am so relieved that I stopped practicing twelve step. If I still thought that I had to serve twelve step on top of trying to figure out how to make a living worth living I know I would have died a slave!

Great video and also great comments. I slipped into an almost comatose state listening to those dumb cliches when I was new to the cult. Thinking about my ignorance nowadays makes my skin crawl. In the year or so before I left the cult I increasingly challenged much of the rhetoric. I suspect I made myself very unpopular locally, although by still going to meetings, still volunteering free labour and still throwing fistfuls of folding stuff into the 7th I was grudgingly tolerated at best. Keep 'em coming, matey.

1st time I went through the program I agreed to everything due to fear of failure since I was told I had reached the end of the line. You don’t get “this” they tell you it’s jail’s institutions or death. So from the very first second it was fear based. The second time I went through it I had loads of questions. The person sponsoring my at the time couldn’t handle them. He told me to stop over thinking or & making it more complicated than it has to be. Yet kept reinforcing five minutes before about how my life depends on it.

That AA crowd sure likes to talk about steps. One time, I told them I already knew all about them, as I'd had to come down some, to get there--both physically and socially. They didn't get it, at first, but once they did, they didn't like it, and almost said I had to leave. I was actually there, just to get an attendance sheet initialed, to keep a room I had. I wanted a legitimate one, as a lot of guys had been caught forging them, and had gotten booted out for it. The building I was in was mostly for rehab guys, but they rented to some outside guys (like me), to reduce the vacancy rate. It was a condition of the funding contract they had with the govt., that the vacancy rate could be no greater than 10%, or the funding could get cut off . But the rehab guys bitched, saying we should have to go to AA meetings, like they had to, so that became a tenancy requirement of ours, which noncompliance with, meant instant eviction. Yeah, it was ludicrous, but some of us needed a cheap place to stay, temporarily, and so accepted it, albeit begrudgingly.

PLEASE Don’t stay in AA because you’re afraid to hurt your sponsors feelings or you think you might relapse! If you stay in AA you probably will relapse. It’s almost a guarantee! And if you stay in AA and don’t relapse you have a much higher chance of committing suicide! How the heck is AA even legal?!!

Isn’t it interesting how important the 12 step program is to AA people. The guy who wrote the 12 steps never even did the 12 steps. What a bizarre contradiction.

Something that could not be stated out loud: I was required to have a sponsor due to a living situation, so I got one. The guy was about as helpful 1-ply toilet paper. By that point I was incredibly desperate for sobriety that I would have chopped off my left arm. What couldn't be said is while I did make an effort to work with him, the only step that required his participation was the 5th. It still took meeting and communicating with him to prove having one, but for fuck sake I basically did everything myself. I stopped going to meetings a month ago because the stress of "fitting in" and circular thinking of service work was in and of itself driving me insane and taking me closer to relapse than simply letting the fellowship go. There was no growth at the meetings, just stagnation and obligation for the sake of obligation. It is absolutely true that these people would be lost without meetings. How is that recovery in any way shape or form? To be fair there were some aspects of the program that were helpful, and no I'm not an atheist, but "unity" and "recovery" are 100% crocks of shit. Cliques just like high school, if high school was Amish. The only corner that really held strong was service.

It's a horrible mind fuck--- take vulnerable people coming off a near death episode with alcohol (acute or chronic) and indoctrinate them with Bill Wilson's wet brain stream of consciousness theology, and when they "slip" and drink again---- WHICH IS WHAT 999 OUT OF EVERY 1000 "newcomers" will do, they will convinced that those Quackaholics were right. Everything they said, I did! It's fucking sick. FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES.

I don't like how aggressive the steppers get when you question anything. It's scary really when you are on the receiving end of it. When I first started educating myself about aa, I thought that I could have a conversation with my aa "friends" about these things. Nope. Not a chance. You would think they would be curious as I was.

Where was my "miracle?" Being there just made me feel more lonely, nervous and lost. Leaving was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. When I questioned things I was just told to look past myself and read the book more.

I've been going to AA for just over 2 months and I'm getting pretty sick of it. I've always trusted what people do, not what people say. What they say, preach, and claim isn't what they do, practice, and are. To me at least, AA doesn't get rid of character defects, it just transfers the defects into the program. Instead of being smug, arrogant, egotistical with black and white thinking about themselves while drinking, they are smug, arrogant, egotistical with black and white thinking about their sobriety in program. "It's our/the AA way or relapse or suicide. It's our way or no way" I've been bullied and publicly humiliated in meetings by one of the old timers, of course no 10th step was ever attempted in the matter by them. They say it's a place of spirituality, not religion, while indulging in the Lord's Prayer, which is religious and from the Bible. Mathew 6-5 15. But when I bring up contradictions it's all me lacking tolerance. Unless you do AA their way, you don't receive any of the fellowship, friendliness, or understanding.

I was in a meeting and I questioned the "give it away to keep it," mantra. I asked the so called guru that shouldn't I heal myself before trying to heal others? I used an analogy of being on an airplane and the oxygen mask falls. I need to secure my mask first so I don't pass out and can't help others. I was scoffed at by the guy (my former sponsor) and told, you've helped yourself enough, do it our way. What kind of sick logic is that? Just a dismissive asshole.

Do you want what we have got? They always say that after you've relapsed. Or you haven't been going to enough meetings....no inbetween, no curiosity as to why you relapsed. Just more meetings, more meetings, more calling the sponsor. Is it for me or is it really to stroke their ego? They are not interested in WHY you drank. Or whether it could be ongoing stresses, trauma or mental health diagnosis. It's a little softer over here with AA in the UK. I've been trying to work the steps since January. There's nothing empowering about these steps. And the language is so patronising and demeaning. I rarely share at meetings but it seems most people share just for validation, often by using the cult speak language. It's group think. When I've asked when this spiritual awakening happened and they can't answer it. The truth is your life got better because you stop engaging in harmful drinking and you assessed your life which in turn improved your life. Why the long, drawn out process of looking at my life from the point of alcoholism. Everyone has defects. Everyone has an ego. It's the faux spiritual, smiling, side head nodding and that we're really better that most of you folks 'out there'. The one of us mentality starts when you're labelled an alcoholic with this 'illness'. I would say drinking is a symptom and not an illness. They don't like that though. We ALL have this illness. No nuanced type of drinker is discussed. Anyway, I'm reading this book called the biology of desire which is far more helpful that the Big Book. I can't bring myself to shame myself with the 12 by 12. I guess cause I'm not doing the step work I'll always be seen as a hopeless dry drunk. Thanks for your videos! They are great. Curious what helped you gain control of your mental health and was it medication and therapy that helped all along once you left the program.

Any org -- 12 Step, Scientology, whatever -- that claims to have The Answer(s), but doesn't allow Questions should be automatically suspect.

Were you ever in a group, where some guy got up, told them they were all fucked, and walked out?

Whenever I had a question about the program, I was told that "it just works" and the proof is in the "millions of people" it has saved. I once asked my sponsor why this "higher power" couldn't help people with say...cancer...if they merely asked. She told me we weren't talking about cancer and ended that conversation. I never really got a straight answer to anything. Also, anytime I have tried to argue a point with someone in AA, any logical point I make is blatantly ignored. I had an AA cult member argue with me that it is not a cult because you can leave anytime. I replied that you are told you will die if you leave and there is that passage in the 12 and 12 that you are signing your own death warrant if you don't do the program. This was ignored and he continued to argue that it says this nowhere. Completely pointless to ask questions or have a meaningful discussion because you will get nowhere and they will turn it around on you that you aren't serious about getting sober.

Love your vids Vic! I do go to meetings. This one is raw and fairly honest. I tell them I use weed for pain management. Most of the older ones are like. Your lucky, they seem to get it. But, thats only a handful. I dont talk to the people pleasers. Or any other shady fucks. But I hear you. I take the good and leave the bad

In George Burns' story, the character that mentions the trunk sounds as if he could have been in AA. I've known too many of them, who are completely self-absorbed. th-cam.com/video/M4eIECXugB8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=e4JwRI8v95OhbXph

Haven't watched any of your videos lately as I've been on my own trip. Fuck AA!!! I'm so over it! Lol the miracle 😂😂😂what miracle??? Hope you are well Vic. As always I appreciate your content❤

Maybe they should really keep their beliefs and fallacies in the rooms. The most crazy and hateful stuff I've heard were from the old timers. I'm having a rough time in my life, drinking hasn't been on my mind and I honestly don't think they would be a help, not with the dogma that would be attached. Just an anchor around my neck when I need to get things done.

You're looking mighty healthy! It seems like you've managed to not drink without them! That would tickle me pink to see ❤

And Don't criticise anything either. I once made the mistae of honestly saying I thought Clancy I. Made hateful comments about women and I thought I was gonna be crucified. It was a group of. 5 people outside a meeting and only one person stuck up for me having a right to my opinion. Alot of people whispered he was a pig, but towed the party line. The thinking was so rigid no room for questioning.

The program can never be wrong and any good question I've raised has been met with well it don't mean it like that. Would you go to any lengths ? I won't suck anyones dick no.

You must NEVER question the cult ,they dont like people who think for themselves or go alcohol free without them.If you leave " before the miracle happens" you realize you were being lied to .its a soulless cult ,ive witnessed this myself.

Yesh, I got the standard gaslighting reaction 🤡

ANGER IS NEVER JUSTIFIED! BILL WILSON SAID IT, SO LET IT BE WRITTEN LET IT BE DONE. LOL

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS..... yeah, what's up with that? BY THE GRACE OF GAWD LOL F those idiots.

You’re right, it's a fact that quitting booze not only makes your world a better place to be in, good things start to “magically” happen and the energy is insane! Steffon Barkload's Quit Drinking Forever, that’s the best shortcut I go’ogled that took less than a week to work without suffering withdrawal.

I seen people in AA sobbing over their dead children or dead parents and were told "live life on life's terms." and "be grateful for what you do have." even though someone friggin' died and that they are there despite being in such extreme grief and pain. If I lost my parents there is no way I could function. Just them being there and not drinking again was amazing to me. Living life on life terms when your parents or kids DIE is a pretty cruel slap in the face if you ask me. I was the only one who hugged her. I'm no hero but I felt so bad for her. Least I can do.

Every diagnosis I received from a DOCTOR never said "alcoholic". It's a term medical PHD's never used. Looking back, I was very immature, chronically depressed, and as a result, polluted myself with an easily accessible drug-- Alcohol. I needed help, but all they gave me was Bill Wilson's stream of consciousness, make it up as you go along, faith healing. Of course it didn't work, and they blamed me. Why didn't they blame God? LOL

"TWO STEPPER" do one on the criticism in open discussion meetings of members who "only" do step 1 and step 12. LMFAO those meetings were disturbing

Recovery options other than Alcoholics Anonymous

I am not a provocateur, but I left this comment to the owner of the channel the other day: "Like your channel but I think you need to give AA a chance, it helps a lot of people". And this guy gives me a response back: "Look I am the channel owner, you don't like it here take your stupid face back to AA and stick your face in the cun*t oh sorry meant the cult. Just leave and never come back" I don't think that is appropriate.

I love your honesty, Aa is a cult. Play on the vulnerable!! Am being bullied by a male alcholic in and out of the rooms, i dare not speak about it,am so intimidated in the rooms I feel small I have decided to stay away am in therapy and feeling so much better.🙏

Did you know that Bill W. knew L. Ron Hubbard. Hubbard had a property where Bill W. used to go golfing. Hubbard didn't like Bill because he would throw rotten meat to his pedigree dogs over the fence when he was a drunkard. Truth is stranger than fiction. Oh, and Bill was always trying to get Hubbard to read his literature.

I'm so glad you are alive. I recently left the cult and had experienced similar feelings. I feel better than I did before because I can see that I was hammering my self-esteem while in the cult mindset. I have additional, real work to do but being away from the cult and being able to see that it is a cult is huge

th-cam.com/video/jc-tPU9wRUQ/w-d-xo.html

AA is cheesey. TOTAL CHEESE.

Only a few members were cool one was a childhood friend i gave him more leeway just because of that but he was totally in the big book cult

I broke my phone and lost my AA connections best thing to happen 😂

Bill W had an IQ hovering around 85. He was just smart enough to pull off this ruse. He was smart enough to see that there was a void to be filled and he filled it. He tricked a few shady doctors and sleazy clergymen to endorse him to make it work. He wrote a stream of consciousness that reads a few points in front of a Rimbaud poem, which was re-written to make it palatable and then Marty Mann and Madison Avenue did the rest. Bill had no talent. None. He was a lazy, drunken asshole who used everybody who entered his orbit, worst of all his own wife. After investing so much in that asswipe, Lois knew it made more sense to stick around for a payoff than to cut bait like everyone else who saw Bill for what he was. The fact that he had that book printed BIG tells me he kind of figured himself he shot his load and was just looking to squeeze as much money as he could out of this racket before the house of cards collapsed. Since then, the entire firm of AA has created a false narrative and hidden all the disgusting facts. This program never had dignity or integrity. It's a dishonest pile of crap that pulls in millions (billions?) of tax free dollars every year.

I felt no freedom and no happiness. I was way more depressed and lonely. I wanted it to work I really did. Now after hearing this I'm glad I'm out. Did they expect you to blame yourself if someone wronged you?!

My jaw is on the floor!! I thought people were asked to amends to those they hurt not to those who hurt them. This is insane that they are guilt-tripping rape and abuse victims! This could lead to many suicides. Thanks for telling us this. This could save lives. I am stunned. I'm so glad I got out of AA. I was severely bullied and if they would blame me, I would most certainly go off the deepest end. I apologize to those i hurt when drinking. My friends and mother are really hurting and I'm giving sobriety another go-on my own. I said sorry but the damage is done. I seen AA members constantly blame themselves for things at meetings and I was like, woah why are so hard on yourselves? Now I know.

Victor we’ve just a really a good thing happen in my country that I’ve just found out about. In Scotland it’s difficult to get processed as an addict through the court system they don’t just throw anyone to rehab. So there’s this law that’s been brought in now where rehabs that had return clients. Basically cash cows, can no longer claim to be trying to help people when they’re returning for their 8th/13th stay. Judges are now being given powers to push for alternative rehabs etc and look for other options. Sounds like the community based rehabs are being held to task/accountability which sounds good. Here’s hoping it may start opening judges eyes to the whole recovery industry and realising that it’s screwed.

Ugh just love your videos. It’s been over a year since I left and your words got me through the many times when that AA programming of “I’m gonna drink if I don’t show up” crept up. Ty for showing us that true freedom is possible. This is service 🫡

I haven't heard of the Orange Papers until today. Your channel has really helped me with deprogramming. I was away from AA for nearly 5 years and it kept its grip on me. The shame, feelings of doom, isolation, etc. Typical cult-leaver feelings

i just came across your channel. I really thought I was the only one who felt this way. I was in AA for 2 months and was getting more and more depressed and angry. I wanted what they had I felt something was really wrong with me. I did not understand anything about the literature. I relapsed all week and it was quite ugly. I'm going to try and quit again on my own. I'm an atheist and some "higher power" that doesn't talk to me or hear me will save me from myself. I couldn't make any friends in AA but I sure can meet drinking friends-which i just lost after losing my things and freaking out. AA people will drop you like a bag of rocks if you leave. Anyway i don't mean to whine. Congratulations on your sobriety and thank you for your content.

I have been involved around the country. I'm based out of Los Angeles. It is generally the same everywhere

I went to a meeting after deprogramming from the cult. What a bunch of idiots. Nothing made sense to me. I can’t believe I listened to this bullshit for 22years. Keep up the work. I love your work 😊