Could you do a video on the certain types of characters you find at meetings? The big shot - the group guru, the one every looks upto through clean time / wealth. The church goer / religious fanatic. They usually get accepted into the fold because it shows that AA/CA/NA let you believe what you want. While they have an inside man still spouting 12 traditions as part of their Catholicism/protestantism. 3. The upper level minions, people ranging in the 2-5 year sobriety length. Who thrive on grabbing new comers and mind fucking them into the ground while their sponsors watch on in pride. 4. The sponsor. The person who takes on fae too many people, who loves the god like status in meetings. They go to meetings in big areas to spread their presence. They love it when they’re referred to in third person and often over step the boundaries of personal relationships. 5. Low level minion, the people who act on behalf on the upper level minions. The ones who are absolutely clueless and can really mess you up with their double talk, their back tracking, their forced opinions. They are the ones talk the most about this spiritual experience but can never actual describe it. They will tell you it just happened and if it doesn’t happen to you they don’t relate to that. It came like a lightning bolt for them 🤣 The rehab crew, the people who’ve just been dragged off the street and threw into treatment. As you know they are mandatory parts of your treatment and you can’t refuse to go or you’ll be asked to leave. So you have 12 miserable men and one lonely female who is already shy and vulnerable. Now she’s freshly in treatment being surrounded 40 predators looking to take advantage of her because she’s attractive. Then you have the people like I was who had been in and out of rehabs meetings and knew the score so I could slot back in with ease compared to them. The relapser, me! The people eho are actually struggling with addiction. The people who keep their meeting doors open. The ones who do actually come back time and time again. The ones who actually do the program properly. The ones who begged for help and tried their hardest each and every time they tried to buy into the cult. Sorry I went on a rant but you get my idea, be a good video I think.
I think you hit most of the types you find for sure. Each paragraph I read, reminded me of several people that I have seen over the years :) Might split them up into several videos, or try to hit them all in one. Isn't it strange, how every single AA meeting operates EXACTLY like you laid out ? MUST BE AA GOD ! Wants everyone trapped in their horrifying web of hierarchies and bizarre insanity.
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 definitely, that’s not even trying to get all pseudo psychological and mention the narcissists,sociopaths, psychopaths etc you run into inside the rooms. The Facebook quoter also pisses me off. They spout so much fake positivity and just come across as so shallow, conceited and just down right pathetic the way they seek attention through their online activity about how great recovery is when their life’s a shit tip on a day to day basis lol. So many different characters in there and not many were the good sort!
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 yeah that’s how I was bringing it up, I know you aren’t a qualified psychiatrist or anything to make actual diagnoses. It would be a good subject and give you weeks worth of material breaking it down, could be a playlist of the certain types of people you encounter from ground level up. So people can recognise the different stages of grooming.
I have ptsd from traditions meeting!!! The mental gymnastics and mental torture were unreal. Been watching documentary about Synanon on Max. It was crazy. Founded by an AA member who appointed himself guru.😢😮
I had almost forgotten about that whole "outside issues" horseshit. And yes, that is another shitty tactic for them to get away with what they are doing.
I like the videos where you refer to a past “big fat piece of $#!+ sponsor.” There are a lot of those around the country doing a disservice to recovery from alcohol and drug addiction. Some of them cite 36 spiritual principles- steps, traditions and concepts of AA- as part of a 3 legged stool. If one leg of the stool is missing, you can’t have real recovery, and are destined to be a dry drunk at best. It’s disheartening and inhumane to know that newly sober people are tasked with an impossible standard, largely rooted in occultism and superstition. A much simpler approach is to focus on facing life without drugs or alcohol, learning to embrace what that means for each individual person. I’m pro-empowerment and know sober life is worthwhile. For me, letting go is a hard pass on the outdated model of the 12 step religion.
My family member recently finished a “well respected” in patient alcohol treatment program. It was 12 step based. One week later…drinking. Good thing my expectations were low. He feels like he failed, which is sad.
The das part is, he didn't fail. He is wanting to quit and is being pushed into a program that is failing him. I really hope that he sees there are other ways to overcome this.
I have heard of the freedom model but do not know a lot about it. I have heard people say they had success with it and the best part, it is not a religious cult.
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 according to them they had a 3rd party audit and its success rate is at 61% rather than 5% for 12 step. Essentially, the 450 page book argues that the poor outcomes in addiction treatment are largely due to the beliefs we hold/self-fulfilling prophecy. the whole "powerless" dogma is a prime example.
I recently heard a co-worker say a line in a story they were telling about something else that seems to apply here (and to AA in general): "Never take criticism from somebody you wouldn’t take advice from."
Always a relatable and insightful take. Found the reference to L Ron Hubbard funny and interesting. Wonder if they ever crossed paths? Their programs are eerily similar: big book v dianetics, sponsor v auditor, sins/defects v engrams, trudge road to happy destiny v bridge to total freedom. If not directly connected, they were certainly drinking from the same pitcher of kool-aid 😂😂😂
@Daniel-Bush Do yourself a favor and watch Going Clear. There's a crazy story about Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard. Parsons was an occultist and frequently wrote to Aleister Crowley about magick, and how L.Ron Hubbard had special abilities. Crowley thought Ron was a con-artist and told Parsons to ditch him. There was a rumor that at one time, Hubbard had been going to AA. It was at a point when he was having personal problems, as well as having his pill supply being cut off.
The objective is to strip you of your individualism, which likely ends up “for the group” which is your small group of people you met through your sponsor. “running buddies”. The narrative has been planted. The endgame is to kill the seed before it grows- which is your confidence in yourself after taking the 12 steps, they call this “ego”, hence the rule #62 coin which means “Don’t take yourself so seriously”. This is perfectly placed by nature because by this time you are likely calling your sponsor on his own bullcrap, he notices your not buying his bologna 100% and you begin questioning things. This is where giving up all you deepest secrets was a HUGE mistake. What’s ultimately happened is you’ve become weaponized by the 12 steps that is driven by your sponsors narcissistic narrative . Dooped. Remember, it’s selfish program of recovery!
I literally just cannot! Just for entertainment I occasionally sign on to a meeting on line. I can’t do 10 minutes before I have to shut it off. I’m worried my eyes are gonna fall out on the floor because they are rolling so hard. Such Horse Crap! 😂
God. Fucking 12 and 12 book studies. Every Wednesday night at eight. I used to make meetings every day but guess which particular shitshow I 86ed first? Ugh. Monday nights were big book studies. 🤮
Oh it is sheer torture. I remember one Big Book Study, where they would actually read ONE line at a time, and drone on endlessly about little words. "It says here we MUST not that we SHOULD!" and they would go on and on like it was the fucking Da Vinci code and all the secrets of the universe were right there. Instead of just realizing that this was just a book written by some con man. .....But of course, ....it is not a religion.
quackaholicsanonymous7210 There was another "Cult within a cult" (similar to Clancy Meetings) called "THE Big Book Study"--it had offshoots all over the US. These people would not just go line by line, but word by word. They had both Webster's and Cambridge dictionaries, for maximum affect. As I recall, they did one step per year with all newcomers. Of course, someone in the original group could trace his sponsorship links back to Bill Wilson. They also believed they were doing "real AA", as Bill would have.
Best decision you could make. They will spread that stuff around, adding more juicy details to it. If the story is not bad enough, they will make it ten times worse with their gossiping. Just like little kids on a playground. Only in this case, the kids are very dangerous bullies.
I've started drinking after meetings. I find it all a bit trauma drumping. And perhaps people with their best intentions are being polite and kind but we are all participating in 'my life has changed because alcohol was removed' . My life isn't bad but my problem is that I'm not getting the right mental health support in the UK. It's impossible to see a psychiatrist in the UK without basically getting sectioned. AA helps you realise that most of us in those rooms have mental health diagnosis. We didn't even like alcohol to begin with; it's merely a readily available drug we can get from a local liquor store.
Unfortunately here it is almost just as bad with seeing a therapist or a psychiatrist, unless you have a lot of money. AA unfortunately offers no solution, it does not say "we have mental health issues and drink when we don't want to" it tells you that only a miracle from a made up God and the Steps can help you, which they can't.
Your title is very apropos: They're definitely common (dead common, more like), many are on welfare (illegitimately), and as for the garbage part, well, that's in rather no need of explanation, ha! I've come to refer to their class (or subcaste, as Orwell would put it) as the quasi-lumpenproletariat.
Ahhh.. How about the ole Rule #62?? The rule #62 coin?? ( usually given to you after you take the 12 steps, likely your sponsor or his “grand sponsor”). You could do an entire video on that bologna man.
@@matthewcarlson3408 They tell you don't take yourself seriously.....then they tell you that you are going to sign your death warrant if you do not conform to the whole thing.
Do you know Bobby C from the anonymous addiction deprogramning podcast? You should ask him to go on his podcast. Excellent channel...yours too. You have really helped me overcome this nonsense.
Wow that I did not know. I knew Bill and Bob were Oxford Group members, lead by a lunatic named Frank Buchman, who said he "envisioned a worldwide dictatorship of men under God control"
I apologise. I remember reading something about this when I had only been sober for a short time,(and new to the internet). I've tried looking into it again, and could only find one source, which may be complete codswallop!
Could you do a video on the certain types of characters you find at meetings?
The big shot - the group guru, the one every looks upto through clean time / wealth.
The church goer / religious fanatic. They usually get accepted into the fold because it shows that AA/CA/NA let you believe what you want. While they have an inside man still spouting 12 traditions as part of their Catholicism/protestantism.
3. The upper level minions, people ranging in the 2-5 year sobriety length. Who thrive on grabbing new comers and mind fucking them into the ground while their sponsors watch on in pride.
4. The sponsor. The person who takes on fae too many people, who loves the god like status in meetings. They go to meetings in big areas to spread their presence. They love it when they’re referred to in third person and often over step the boundaries of personal relationships.
5. Low level minion, the people who act on behalf on the upper level minions. The ones who are absolutely clueless and can really mess you up with their double talk, their back tracking, their forced opinions. They are the ones talk the most about this spiritual experience but can never actual describe it. They will tell you it just happened and if it doesn’t happen to you they don’t relate to that. It came like a lightning bolt for them 🤣
The rehab crew, the people who’ve just been dragged off the street and threw into treatment. As you know they are mandatory parts of your treatment and you can’t refuse to go or you’ll be asked to leave. So you have 12 miserable men and one lonely female who is already shy and vulnerable. Now she’s freshly in treatment being surrounded 40 predators looking to take advantage of her because she’s attractive. Then you have the people like I was who had been in and out of rehabs meetings and knew the score so I could slot back in with ease compared to them.
The relapser, me! The people eho are actually struggling with addiction. The people who keep their meeting doors open. The ones who do actually come back time and time again. The ones who actually do the program properly. The ones who begged for help and tried their hardest each and every time they tried to buy into the cult.
Sorry I went on a rant but you get my idea, be a good video I think.
I think you hit most of the types you find for sure. Each paragraph I read, reminded me of several people that I have seen over the years :)
Might split them up into several videos, or try to hit them all in one. Isn't it strange, how every single AA meeting operates EXACTLY like you laid out ? MUST BE AA GOD ! Wants everyone trapped in their horrifying web of hierarchies and bizarre insanity.
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 definitely, that’s not even trying to get all pseudo psychological and mention the narcissists,sociopaths, psychopaths etc you run into inside the rooms.
The Facebook quoter also pisses me off. They spout so much fake positivity and just come across as so shallow, conceited and just down right pathetic the way they seek attention through their online activity about how great recovery is when their life’s a shit tip on a day to day basis lol. So many different characters in there and not many were the good sort!
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 yeah that’s how I was bringing it up, I know you aren’t a qualified psychiatrist or anything to make actual diagnoses. It would be a good subject and give you weeks worth of material breaking it down, could be a playlist of the certain types of people you encounter from ground level up. So people can recognise the different stages of grooming.
I really appreciate the amount of work done at the Orange Papers website.
Oh me too, so much information about the actual history of how the whole thing got started, and all the lies involved.
AA is the definition of insanity. The closest I ever came to a relapse in my recovery was my time in the cult.
These videos are healing my trauma fr. Thank you so much for making them
I am glad that they are helping you
Luckily I avoided the tradition meetings like the plague. If I recall big book study group was Wednesday night
AA is cleverly controlled and gets it's cult roots from traditions
And from other cults
and the occult
I have ptsd from traditions meeting!!! The mental gymnastics and mental torture were unreal.
Been watching documentary about Synanon on Max. It was crazy. Founded by an AA member who appointed himself guru.😢😮
AA makes me want to have an adult bevvie out of sheer spite, and I don't drink.
I know the feeling. There have probably been times that I didn't drink for the same reason, out of sheer spite :)
The "outside issues" nonsense used to infuriate me... talk about gaslighting and victim blaming!
I had almost forgotten about that whole "outside issues" horseshit. And yes, that is another shitty tactic for them to get away with what they are doing.
I like the videos where you refer to a past “big fat piece of $#!+ sponsor.” There are a lot of those around the country doing a disservice to recovery from alcohol and drug addiction. Some of them cite 36 spiritual principles- steps, traditions and concepts of AA- as part of a 3 legged stool. If one leg of the stool is missing, you can’t have real recovery, and are destined to be a dry drunk at best. It’s disheartening and inhumane to know that newly sober people are tasked with an impossible standard, largely rooted in occultism and superstition. A much simpler approach is to focus on facing life without drugs or alcohol, learning to embrace what that means for each individual person. I’m pro-empowerment and know sober life is worthwhile. For me, letting go is a hard pass on the outdated model of the 12 step religion.
exactly!!
My family member recently finished a “well respected” in patient alcohol treatment program. It was 12 step based. One week later…drinking. Good thing my expectations were low. He feels like he failed, which is sad.
Turn them on to this channel.
The das part is, he didn't fail. He is wanting to quit and is being pushed into a program that is failing him. I really hope that he sees there are other ways to overcome this.
Tell him to check out the freedom model. Also, Dr Chris palmer and the keto diet for mental health. It saved my life
I have heard of the freedom model but do not know a lot about it. I have heard people say they had success with it and the best part, it is not a religious cult.
@@quackaholicsanonymous7210 according to them they had a 3rd party audit and its success rate is at 61% rather than 5% for 12 step. Essentially, the 450 page book argues that the poor outcomes in addiction treatment are largely due to the beliefs we hold/self-fulfilling prophecy. the whole "powerless" dogma is a prime example.
Been binge watching your videos, even though I'm a long time (mostly lurker) member of your group on Facebook! Glad to see these!
Awesome, thank you!
I recently heard a co-worker say a line in a story they were telling about something else that seems to apply here (and to AA in general):
"Never take criticism from somebody you wouldn’t take advice from."
That is very true.
Always a relatable and insightful take. Found the reference to L Ron Hubbard funny and interesting. Wonder if they ever crossed paths? Their programs are eerily similar: big book v dianetics, sponsor v auditor, sins/defects v engrams, trudge road to happy destiny v bridge to total freedom. If not directly connected, they were certainly drinking from the same pitcher of kool-aid 😂😂😂
@Daniel-Bush
Do yourself a favor and watch Going Clear. There's a crazy story about Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard. Parsons was an occultist and frequently wrote to Aleister Crowley about magick, and how L.Ron Hubbard had special abilities. Crowley thought Ron was a con-artist and told Parsons to ditch him.
There was a rumor that at one time, Hubbard had been going to AA. It was at a point when he was having personal problems, as well as having his pill supply being cut off.
@Daniel-Bush
The comedian Doug Stanhope said of AA, "AA makes $cientology seem reasonable".
You wanna know why the group comes first??
-because this way, nobody can be held accountable🎯
Well said!
Yep. That way they can get away with doing all sorts of things and can hide behind "traditions"
The objective is to strip you of your individualism, which likely ends up “for the group” which is your small group of people you met through your sponsor.
“running buddies”.
The narrative has been planted.
The endgame is to kill the seed before it grows- which is your confidence in yourself after taking the 12 steps,
they call this “ego”, hence the rule #62 coin
which means
“Don’t take yourself so seriously”.
This is perfectly placed by nature because by this time you are likely calling your sponsor on his own bullcrap,
he notices your not buying his bologna 100% and you begin questioning things.
This is where giving up all you deepest secrets was a HUGE mistake.
What’s ultimately happened is you’ve become weaponized by the 12 steps that is driven by your sponsors narcissistic narrative .
Dooped.
Remember, it’s selfish program of recovery!
They got leaders they're just locally run and funnel their way to the top
Exactly THIS!
My favorite channel
Thank you
I literally just cannot! Just for entertainment I occasionally sign on to a meeting on line. I can’t do 10 minutes before I have to shut it off. I’m worried my eyes are gonna fall out on the floor because they are rolling so hard. Such Horse Crap! 😂
God. Fucking 12 and 12 book studies. Every Wednesday night at eight. I used to make meetings every day but guess which particular shitshow I 86ed first? Ugh. Monday nights were big book studies. 🤮
I’m sorry. I too went to those shit shows too.
Oh it is sheer torture. I remember one Big Book Study, where they would actually read ONE line at a time, and drone on endlessly about little words. "It says here we MUST not that we SHOULD!" and they would go on and on like it was the fucking Da Vinci code and all the secrets of the universe were right there. Instead of just realizing that this was just a book written by some con man. .....But of course, ....it is not a religion.
quackaholicsanonymous7210
There was another "Cult within a cult" (similar to Clancy Meetings) called "THE Big Book Study"--it had offshoots all over the US. These people would not just go line by line, but word by word. They had both Webster's and Cambridge dictionaries, for maximum affect. As I recall, they did one step per year with all newcomers. Of course, someone in the original group could trace his sponsorship links back to Bill Wilson. They also believed they were doing "real AA", as Bill would have.
Also, the idea of opening up my deepest and darkest to a room full of people I don't know or trust... NOPE.
Best decision you could make. They will spread that stuff around, adding more juicy details to it. If the story is not bad enough, they will make it ten times worse with their gossiping. Just like little kids on a playground. Only in this case, the kids are very dangerous bullies.
I've started drinking after meetings. I find it all a bit trauma drumping. And perhaps people with their best intentions are being polite and kind but we are all participating in 'my life has changed because alcohol was removed' . My life isn't bad but my problem is that I'm not getting the right mental health support in the UK. It's impossible to see a psychiatrist in the UK without basically getting sectioned. AA helps you realise that most of us in those rooms have mental health diagnosis. We didn't even like alcohol to begin with; it's merely a readily available drug we can get from a local liquor store.
Unfortunately here it is almost just as bad with seeing a therapist or a psychiatrist, unless you have a lot of money. AA unfortunately offers no solution, it does not say "we have mental health issues and drink when we don't want to" it tells you that only a miracle from a made up God and the Steps can help you, which they can't.
Everyone is self medicating with alcohol and drugs because of various mental health depression bipolar bpd etc it's the elephant in the room
Your title is very apropos: They're definitely common (dead common, more like), many are on welfare (illegitimately), and as for the garbage part, well, that's in rather no need of explanation, ha! I've come to refer to their class (or subcaste, as Orwell would put it) as the quasi-lumpenproletariat.
Ahhh..
How about the ole Rule #62??
The rule #62 coin??
( usually given to you after you take the 12 steps, likely your sponsor or his “grand sponsor”).
You could do an entire video on that bologna man.
Haha don't take yourself to seriously... Biggest contradictory statement of the cult.
@@matthewcarlson3408 They tell you don't take yourself seriously.....then they tell you that you are going to sign your death warrant if you do not conform to the whole thing.
Do you know Bobby C from the anonymous addiction deprogramning podcast? You should ask him to go on his podcast. Excellent channel...yours too. You have really helped me overcome this nonsense.
AA can't be reformed since the Big book is the literal word of God 😅
Hehe, You would think God would have a better command of writing skills.
A soldier in the Spiritual Army 😂
They just take it to a whole new level of utter cringe :)
First 😆
Bill W and L Ron Hubbard were close friends.
That I did not realize. No wonder AA and Scientology have a lot in common.
From memory, Bill W was obsessed with Hubbard and his teachings, and Hubbard gave him money to get rid of him?
Wow that I did not know. I knew Bill and Bob were Oxford Group members, lead by a lunatic named Frank Buchman, who said he "envisioned a worldwide dictatorship of men under God control"
I apologise. I remember reading something about this when I had only been sober for a short time,(and new to the internet). I've tried looking into it again, and could only find one source, which may be complete codswallop!
However, I do know that it is widely speculated that Frank Buchman from the Oxford Group may have paid Bill W to go away.