Are Carbide Chop Saws Better? Abrasive vs Carbide Metal Cutting Chop Saws
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Are carbide blade chop saws really worth the extra $$$?
Tools Used in this Video:
Evolution Chop Saw: bit.ly/EvoS355CPSL
Evolution Chop Saw (Amazon): amzn.to/3PWoU3D
Abrasive Chop Saw: amzn.to/3uJ2kDF
Learn Welding and Fabrication in my Online Courses:
courses.timwelds.com
My Video comparing Evolution Chop Saw Models: • Expensive Chop Saws Be...
Chapters:
0:00 Welcome!
0:19 Types of Saws
1:05 Considerations
1:30 Cut Speed
2:10 Cut Quality
3:59 Cut Accuracy
5:49 Cleanup
7:09 Materials
8:05 Cost
9:30 What I Use
A huge thanks to Evolution Power Tools for supporting this video. Before I partnered with them on any projects, I purchased multiple saws from them and used them on my videos because they have great quality products at reasonable prices. If you're looking for a chop saw, metal cutting circular saw or mag drill, be sure to check them out.
Welding and fabrication can be dangerous; always read the owners manuals, consult professionals licensed in your area and work safely. While I try to set a good example of safety, this video is not intended to provide sufficient instruction to safely complete metalworking projects. This description contains affiliate links that provide a commission to the channel at no additional cost to you. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
25+ years ago Milwaukee came out with Carbide metal saws.. I sold tons of them to Electrical Contractors... The demo that wrote the POs was threaded rod.. Cut threaded rod on these saws and there is no deed to chase the threads.. I would take a full bundle of 3/8 or 1/2 rod and put electric tape every 12".. I would cut through the tape and hand the bundle to the contractor with some nuts. Every nut spun on every time..
I can see the attractiveness to that. As a machinist I cringe at the obviously sharp burr that would still be left. Then again the grinding blade leaves on also only so bad the nut won’t go on We spend so much time as machinists deburring completed parts, but then again I wouldn’t want to pay the labor $ to deburr something that is tucked away in an electrical shielded box.
That’s awesome! I don’t work with threaded rod, but it’s got me thinking that I could make a fixture to shorten fasteners with it.
@@TimWelds Needing a fixture is a problem because IMO far too many shapes/sizes clamp up squarely in either type cut-off tool.
I love my Evolution with the SS blade. I will however warn against an issue with it. When cutting at an angle, such as 5:30 in the video, you can have kickback. The material is so far back on the blade that the teeth can grab the material and try to fling it up and back. It's best to have your material towards the front and or center of the blade. This way it isn't trying to lift the material away from the base of the saw. I created a quick install/uninstall fence spacer for when I cut 45 angles. It places the material directly under the arbor of the blade. It's just a heavy piece of box tubing, 2 L brackets with a couple set screws that pinch the fench. It installs in 5 seconds.
Love my carbide cutter.. I started welding a few years ago watching Tim’s channel. Thanks Tim for all the good advice!
Very good informatioal video, thank you. I started with a Dewalt abrasive saw and then went to a 14" Evolution Rage 2 chop saw, didn't look back after getting the Evolution. One mistake I would make with the Evolution was I would let the saw slow down before it completely cut through. Big mistake!! Carbide tips come off that way!! LOL! I liked the Evolution so much that I bought the 10" sliding/beveling saw, works great. Now that I'm real old and I haven't used them in awhile it's time to clean out the garage. LOL. Thanks again for your time and videos.
Hi Tim, thank you so much for the time and effort you take in putting out these videos! I went down the same path, starting out with an abrasive chop saw, and experienced every single disadvantage that you stated. The amount of deflection while cutting miters was a bit of a surprise to me. The heat and mess generated with an abrasive saw is significant, along with the additional post-processing work. I bought a Slugger carbide chop saw with a couple of different blades, and haven't looked back. I'd give away my abrasive saw if someone would take it haha! I'll never use it again - it's either the Slugger or a band saw for me.
Very well thought out and presented video. This info is so useful to so many of us. Cant wait to have the Evolution S355MCS. Thank you so much for all your videos and efforts that inform us. Your experience is very valuable, thank you.
In recent years some manufacturers have produced metal cutting blades for circular saws, designed for the higher RPMs of those saws. I've got one meant for stainless steel, and it produces a great cut. A 7-1/4" one works great in a 10" wood-cutting miter saw I had previously retired, and uses the same arbor. The miter saw is geared for a 10" blade so is relatively low RPM compared to a circular saw, and the smaller diameter blade further reduces effective speed/RPM. Main disadvantage is small cutting capacity.
I bought the carbide metal saw and it works very well. I have used it on case hardened 4140 and it pretty much ate the blade. Just bought the abrasive saw specifically for hardened steel.
Cutting through welds don't help it at all,fried a blade.
Excellent unbiased vid! I agree with all of your comments. I have a metal cutting miter bandsaw for fabrication projects but a couple of years ago bought a carbide tooth metal cutting cordless circular saw and love it. Uses different blades for aluminum and steel and both work well. Still use the angle grinder with an abrasive wheel at times but not nearly as much as I used it prior to getting the circular saw. If I didn't have the band saw I would definitely get a carbide chop saw. For those just starting out and can't afford a bandsaw or don't have the room for one, the carbide chop saw is the way to go.
LOL.. This is a paid advertisement for Evolution.. I agree that metal cutting Carbide blades are great (both in chop saws and circular saws) but there are many brands that work well.
Thanks for the comments! A bandsaw is also a great option for those who have the room/budget for one. I tried to keep the video to my honest experience with the types of saws rather than a brand comparison. Evolution did sponsor the video, but the conclusions apply to any brand of saw.
Thanks for the info, Tim! Would be interesting to see how a bandsaw stacks up against these types of saw.
Thanks! That would be a great follow on video. As far as bandsaws go, there is a huge range of size and price. I like the chop saw much better than benchtop horizontal bandsaws that are similar in size and price to a chop saw. If you’re talking about a larger industrial bandsaw, the bandsaw would be more capable, but also much larger and more expensive, comparable to a proper cold saw.
TimWelds.. Nothing like the smell of the abrasive saw. That dust gets everywhere. I used both types and I prefer the carbide blade type. Evolution makes awesome saws. I have their rage4 and love it but it's a little to small for what I need. I would love to get the one you show in this video.. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for such an informative appraisal. Maybe you can compare say CNC machining to traditional hand crafted manufacturing.
Great video.
Appart from the noise, dust and hot work issues, there are a couple of real cost issues with the abrasive wheel machines.
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1/ Yes the reduction in cutting depth thru the life of the blade can be a big issue with abrasive blades.
A few yearas ago I baught a stack of blades for very little money from a guy that cut a lot of large sections, he would have been getting less than 1/3 the usable life from the blades.
I cut mostly small sections so it was a bargin for me.
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2. The quality of abrasive blades has and does vary a great deal.
Older, cheaper and off brand blades, can have very short lives indeed. These nasty blades can also fail in use, throwing nasty big chunks everywhere.
.Since the 80's I have learned to be very fussy about the abrasive blades I use.
The reputable known brand blades have improved considerably.
They last much longer, cut better, cut a wider range of materials, and they are much less likley to blow up in your face.
Excellent video Tim, thank you. I've been wondering about this. Certainly makes carbide the preferred choice. One thing you didn't mention is the sound level.... I imagine the carbide saw is better in that regard too?
Thanks! They’re both screamers with a similar sound level. Hearing protection is a must. The quiet option is a bandsaw, but a good quality bandsaw is much larger and more expensive.
I hate my abrasion saw! Good vid, saving up for an Evo
Hi Tim, thank you so much for this video. This video answered most of my questions. I still have a couple and was wondering if you or anyone else reading this could help.
I'm a finish carpenter and install staircases. I need a metal chop saw for cutting 1/2" hollow iron balusters (mild steel) to length. Usually I use a small cordless band saw which works perfectly most of the time. But sometimes it's important for all the baluster to be cut clean & perfectly square (or I need all the balusters to be exactly the same length). I was was looking at Evolution's small 7-1/4" saw and thinking of making a removable bed with a stop block.
1) Do you have any experience with their 7-1/4" saw? Do you think it would work? That's pretty much all I would use it for.
2) I'm not familiar with Evolution, what's the quality like on these saws?
3) Are you familiar with anyone else who makes a small quality metal chop saw using a carbide blade?
i love my el cheapo 275 dollar bandsaw, no mess, no dust in the air.
cuts rounds/square up to 125mm.
maybe a little bit slower but you can do something else when sawing, so more time saving.
cheers ben.
Nah, while bandsaw cuts super clean, they really slow the project down. Can't beat the speed of a carbide saw.
Just getting started, I got Evo's 7 1/4" chop saw - yeah, not good for larger pieces but at only a little over $200 a great purchase. For larger pieces, there may be a bandsaw in my future. Didn't even consider an abrasive model for the reasons you mentioned. Love my Evo, but my biggest gripe is the chips. If you have a shop dogs, even one of those chips can shred a paw pretty good so I cut in an area they can't get to and have to be diligent about cleanup because those chips can fly. Probably a hazard for barefoot kids too.
I assume you probably wouldn't want your dog or kids running around in the larger mess from an abrasive saw either, but your point is well taken, clean up is important!
I'm a professional stair builder and was looking at the small Evo's 7-1/4" chop saw to cut solid 1/2" square iron balusters (made from mild steel). Would this small saw have enough power?
Thanks, Tim. I agree with your assessment. I went with a 10" Evolution compound miter saw and it works great for my purposes.
While it came with an "all material" blade, the blades they sell for specific materials work very well IMO. I have one for the wood, another for ferrous metal, and another for aluminum/non-ferrous metal.
They do offer blades for stainless and other hard metals.
Thanks for showing the difference I was wondering how good these carbide blades are, yah the other cinde stinks to .
how will it compare to bandsaw do you think in cut speed and cost?
Chop saws will generally be faster than bandsaws for lighter sections (1/4” wall thickness or so and under) Bandsaws vary a lot in cost and how heavy duty they are. There are some benchtop horizontal bandsaws that are similar in size and price to a chop saw and I like a chop saw more than those. Heavier industrial bandsaws are very accurate, quieter and have more capacity than a chop saw, but are also much larger and more expensive.
Thank you for your advise@@TimWelds
for steel and aluminum, those machines are great. but: what do you do with stainless steel? Do you really have to get a new blade after 20-50 cuts? seems there is no blade from any supplier which lasts a decent amount (means >>100) of cuts
Thank you for the great videos!
QUESTION: I work a lot with salvaged steel, which is often quite rusty. With tubing it can be rusty inside and out, and I can't clean off the interior rust before cutting. Friends have told me, and it seems true in my limited experience, that cutting rusty metal with carbide blades (and my bandsaw blades) dulls them very fast. Is that your experience? I would much rather purchase and use a carbide chop saw over abrasive, but I am concerned the blades won't last. Your thoughts?
ANSWERED: I ended up calling Evolution and talked with one of their reps. He says rust contains a lot of carbon buildup which generates more heat than when cutting clean steel. That heat will dull the blade faster, and potentially damage the blade as well. Therefore Evolution recommends only cutting clean steel with their carbide blades.
I don’t know; I usually cut new material with the chop saw. I’ve done quite a bit of repair work, but the types of repair that I’ve done generally has to be cut with a grinder and cut off wheel. If anyone else has some experience with this, I’d love to know.
There is no reason rust will increase the wear of carbide blade saws when cutting regular carbon steels. I cut rusty I beams and angle iron on mine often. What might be the issue with reclaimed rusty steels, is where you do not know the composition of the steel. Hardened steels or nickel alloy’d steel will wear out a carbide blade real quick.
@@kristoffscuba5466 Not sure about the hardness of rust (iron oxide) and didn't find a quick answer online. Many oxides are harder than their unoxidized versions, such as aluminum. Composition of the steel can be a big deal. Things such as rebar and bed frame angle iron are famous for surprising you with hardness and they can ruin the sharpness of a carbide blade in an instant.
@@benz-share9058 alumium oxide is very hard, iron oxide not so much, potentially slightly harder than none-rusted steel (depends on the steel), but certainly less hard than carbide
Thank you all for your answers! I emailed Evolution Power Tools and asked, "How do your carbide blades hold up when cutting rusty metal?" Their rep replied, "No not recommended for rusty steel"....
Good video.
I despise Amazon links.
All these reasons are valid, BUT... clean miters is the most important.
That’s what I like about them.
I've had an Evolution saw on my toy list for quite some time, so I don't need convincing. My question: Is there anything the abrasive saw would be better at than the Evo? hardened steel? Strange alloys?
For very hard metals, the abrasive saw could be better, but it really depends on what you’re trying to achieve with the cut. When it comes to strange alloys, a larger industrial piece of equipment with flood coolant may be needed depending on what you’re working with.
I know Evolution Tools were testing a miter stand for their metal miter saw, what stand are you using?
I have one of their folding chop saw stands for the traditional style chop saw. It’s portable and works well. For the mitering chop saw, I built my own cart on a video about a year ago with a huge hopper to catch chips and funnel them into a bucket.
@@TimWelds oh yeah, I remember you fab’ing that table and metal funnel.
Many thanks for all your great content, it really helps us all !!!
I am a hobby metal fabricator so time and labor theoretically should not calculate into my decisions. None the less my time still has some value. All things considered it was a happy day when I put my abrasive cutter on a back shelf in my shop. It will be a dark day that I dig it out of its storage spot to cut anything. Technology changes over time, embrace it.
In metalworking we have a rule that at least 2 teeth must be in contact with the job otherwise hammering occurs. So do you use finer pitch on smaller walled jobs?
That dust you say hangs around when using the abrasive disc would be cancer causing similar to silica dust. Whatever the composition of the dust when it floats in the air it indicates it at micron size which is extremely dangerous in terms of lung disease. If I was doing this all day I would wear positive ventilation attire same as welders. Also the noise levels emitted by these machines are at hearing loss levels.
I'm a Metalwork teacher here Sydney Australia. Care to reply?
Thanks for the comment! I was taught the same thing with 2 teeth engaged, and I follow that on bandsaws. With these carbide blades, the pitch is much wider than the material thickness, so there often isn’t a tooth engaged. I was concerned about this at first, but I’ve been using them for years without a problem. That being said, they do often finer pitch blades for thin metal. As you mentioned, the dust from abrasive saws can be very harmful and they are certainly loud.
hello Tim... i want that machine for my shop...pls help...am out of USA
What about cutting hardened steel?
Carbide can cut it (but will dull faster than with mild steel)
I have been using carbide saws for a decade and you missed an important point. you can have a carbide blade sharpened or retipped 2-3 times. this saves a substantial amount over the abrasive blades. I have a love hate relationship with evolution though their blades are good but their saws are a total crap shoot. for any of these saws of any make if the arbor runs out or is marginally undersized the saw is total junk and eats blades faster than an abrasive saw.
Can we used carbide blade in abrasive saw?
I would say no cos of rpm differences
I have the same question! For those who have abrasive saws and do not want to purchase another saw, can they just use a carbide blade?
No, carbide blades are generally rated at a much lower RPM, so abrasive saws will over-speed them.
My ears like the old school abrasive wheel. 😂
Like most I started with an abrasive saw, used it for years. Started a number of fires from sparks. Cut fingers, burnt a few shirts. Done the funky burning ember in the boot dance. Blew out a few discs (chinisium fake labelled crap). Spent way too much time cleaning up edges, using up grinding discs.
Honestly, I dont know which is more suck. One throws grit everywhere, makes part hot and sloppy burr, the other makes a mess in my shop like nothing else ever has or will.. those little chips are like Robar’s glitter bombs and the imbed into everything then get tracked everywhere.
I prefer a bandsaw…
Isn't an abrasive blade required for tool steel, Inconel, and a couple of other metals? Although I suspect that anyone who's working with those isn't the real target audience of this video :)
You are correct! 💯%
Sure, but how often are those cut by a chop saw? I machine these metals but don’t often use a chop saw. But as long as these materials are annealed properly, they can be cut. I cut 4140 on my saw.
@@melgrossInconel is used for exhaust tubing. I don't think those are machined, although I have no experience with them.
Thanks for the comments! Abrasive blades can be better for some really hard alloys, but honestly there are better industrial tools than these for that kind of specialty work. I’ve cut 4130 without a problem on my carbide chop saws, though I think it took a bit of extra life out of the blades. Inconel is a trade name for nickel alloys from the company Special Metals. It includes a wide variety of alloys with a wide range of properties. This is getting really long, but my point is that those types of processes have to be selected and engineered on a case by case basis.
@@TimWelds inconel and others, such as Hastelloy are a pain to machine, much less cut. I’ve had to make parts for my pumps in my lab years ago. Not fun. I wouldn’t even think of cutting them on any saw, even a cold saw.
Nobody ever shows what it is like cutting flat stock on an Evolution saw. Try cutting a 1/4" x 6" flat stock. It does not work. Content makers should show this, even if they are supporting you.
I cut 1/4” x 6” flat bar in this video, I do it all the time. The key is positioning it vertically and it cruises through like butter. It is true that it doesn’t cut as well on flat faces, but I don’t find that to be a common need for my work.
Abrasive is much much faster if your saw has the horsepower to maintain speed at high load.
9:03... You forgot to mention that a Carbide Blade can be resharpened... For even more savings