Another thing to consider is tap strength. Four flute taps are notorious for breaking off in the hole. I usually prefer a two flute tap, as it is far stronger. Another tap is the roll form tap. It requires a different drill size, but you can tap some softer materials, and they are hard to break.
Correct. Also, straight flute taps are stronger than either spiral point or spiral flute taps, because the ‘core’ of the tap is larger. Having said that, however, the spiral taps seem to need far less torque to drive them. Robert
Excellent. This is the first time I've seen the spiral flute and spiral point taps used for hand tapping. I'm sold already. I have large set of straight flute taps and now I want the others too.
Good points Tim!! As a retired machinist I truly believe in buying the best tools you can afford. In my opinion OSG and EMUGE make the best taps and using a quality tapping fluid will help a lot. Tapping metal is a skill and you have to get a "feel" for it especially in the smaller thread sizes. I enjoy your videos and keep up the great content!
Having broken a few taps in my days as a machinist, I prefer spiral point taps even for blind holes when I'm hand tapping. They have the strongest profile of any cut tap and are way less prone to breakage than spiral flute taps. Yes, they cause the chips to bunch up in the bottom of the hole, but if you stop before they are totally impacted, they can be picked or blown out. The little extra time it takes is a lot less than breaking a tap would cost.
When you switch from plug tap to the bottoming spiral tap for a blind hole use a compressed air gun/blower to clear the chips from the hole. I also like using air to clean chips from my taps between holes as it cleans and cools simultaneously. Great video. I've found the quality and wear off the tap in use to be very significant in how they perform. Covering thread percentage on a drill/tap chart may help some viewers. I generally shoot for 70-75% depending on the material I'm working with and the depth of hole.
Machinery’s Handbook says that 60-65% thread is sufficient for most applications and higher percentage in my experience leads to more broken taps. Spiral flute taps will bring the chips out of the hole as the tap progresses. A good tap fluid such as tap-magic or moly-dee will be a great help. The best quality taps in my experience are made by Emuge and titex.
@@alanrawson-wg8io Thread percentages is old info. It is non standard now because it was so miscalculated by so many entities. It is expressly forbidden by the ASME standard. ASME UN and UNR threads B1.1-2003: "Past changes in the thread form designation of the “basic” thread height from 0.750H to 0.625H confused the calculation of percent of thread engagement. This calculation has been used in the past for threaded products users to determine drill size selection. It is now recommended that users select a drill size that will result in a hole size that lies between the maximum and minimum size of the internal thread’s minor diameter shown in the tables included in this Standard"
While I have a few older straight taps still in my box, the majority of my tapping is done with machine taps or spiral taps. For thin metal I use drill-taps which incorporate a drill bit, a spiral tap and a deburr in one tool. Regardless of what style of tap you use, the most important thing is to use the right cutting fluid for the metal you are tapping.
Hi , I've been using the what you call the spiral point tap for most of my life and I'm 69 , I'm a Fitter & Turner and we call it a Gun Tap they are Awesome as was your demo , it was nice to see someone explain the difference's
I started watching your channel to get some beginner welding tips but continued watching because you share a huge amount of useful information in a very accessible manner. I appreciate your channel and your attitude. Thank you so much for making these videos.
I'm really keen on buying my first welder and I've now gone back over lots of your videos I've really enjoyed watching them and just wanted to say thanks, they're great and really informative
First time watching one of your videos. I'm a cnc machinist and use some pretty crazy taps everyday, I used a $150 M6 tap yesterday. This was a great video very informative. Another type of tap is roll form, they are meant for cnc machines as the hole size is more critical and they are harder to start by hand but if you have a very deep hole to tap they can be worth it as they don't make chips at all.
wanted to mention, at an old machinist shop i found an old can of Tap Magic for aluminum and thought it was odd as I had never seen it before. I grabbed it but didn't think it would make much of a difference. After tapping 100+ holes in Al for some parts I was making, it makes a BIG difference and could not have finished the project without it.
I'm just an hobbyst, for tapping aluminum i use pure alcool, i find it very usefull, as aluminum tends to melt ... Pure alcool ( for making cakes and liquors ) is indeed very expensive ( i'm from Italy ) but i use it just sometime, and just a bit. Using alcool for medical appliance would be very cheap, but it smells too much ( here it has some acetone inside, to avoid using it in making liquors ... that is highly taxed, so it's prohibitive cost ... ) Just one point ... not to make too much tapping in a session, or you'll get drunk !!! And also alcool is flammable !!! Have you never tried it ?
Word of caution about the spiral flute taps: they are MUCH weaker than a straight flute are a very easy to break. I'm not advising against them, they are great for blind holes, just some advice from a machinist.
Spiral flute taps are ment to be used with a machine because of their weakness. A bottoming hand tap should be used by hand. Imo no tap should be used in a drill press. Just experience of a Die maker.
@@bowez9 oh come now, as a tool and die maker are you going to say you've NEVER tapped with a drill chuck? That being said, there is a BIG difference between a skilled machinist tapping with a drill chuck and the average DIYer. I feel perfectly confident tapping 8-32 in .125 aluminum all day, but I would never advise the inexperienced to try it.
@@bowez9 I'm impressed then, every older machinist I know has tapped with a drill chuck, but we've all worked places where the owner was like "tap collets, that's what the drill chuck is for"
Another tap type is a thread forming tap or roll tap. This type of tab does not make chips, so you don't have to worry about chip evacuation. The drill you use is a different size and the tap displaces the metal to form the threads. The threads are very strong because the tap work hardens them as they are formed.
Something that I did not know until recently: Around these parts, if you go to a good hardware store and buy a good quality tap you get a pack of 3. Duplicates right? There is a trick. If you look at them closely you will notice that they are all different, the taper and the depth of teeth are different. You are supposed to use them in sequence when threading hard material.
Are you saying that if you only use the first tap that a screw will not enter the thread because the pitch diameter of the tapped hole is not yet large enough?
The first tap in the set is the starting tap. For shallow through holes it is perfectly fine. The next tap is a plug tap and the third is a bottoming tap. These are used for tapping blind holes. The plug tap is used first as far as it goes and then the bottoming tap threads down to the bottom of the hole.
As a non technical person in the mechanical and machining world I found this video very useful. I've been thinking about buying a tap and die set to help with some of my 3D printed parts for the screws and nuts I make. I'm glad I didn't rush out to buy anything before getting some more information. Looks like I still have more room for learning before I make a purchase to figure out exactly what I need to be useful.
I have an assortment of 2-flute spiral taps now and rarely use my standard taps I've had since the 1970s. Just picked some roll forming taps and will be trying them. They work great for tapping soft materials and even wood. Standard taps were designed a 100 years ago for making threads in steel. Just a tip on using taps in a three jaw drill chuck: the shanks of taps are harder than drill bits and will tend to slip in the hardened chuck jaws. Another tip is to use a drill press with a tap follower for getting the taps lined up with the work. Glad to see you used a tap guide block plus tapping fluid.
In Reference to tapping as an apprentice toolmaker [58 years ago] one of the Russian tradesmen took a bet and won that he could ; with a 1/2 R.H. W.W. tap cut a 1/2 L.H.W.W. . thread . That feat that I witnessed has always stuck in my head . If anyone out there wants to try and work it out I would be pleased to see your TH-cam Video. Cheers from Down under in Australia .
Now I know why I was never able to cut threads I was happy with in blind hopes using standard taps. Years ago I just gave up and resorted to always using my lathe to cut threads (which necessarily limits what I could cut)l but after watching the first half of your video I went out to the shed, looked through my random bits bin, found one of those spiral fluted taps, and cut a perfect set of threads on the first try (then did it again with a drill press). Threaded holes aren’t something I make often as most of my use cases call for permanent connections, but this video has still probably saved me a score of hours every year no longer having to rig up some ridiculous jig to hold a part in place on the lathe. Thanks.
those suck . the speed you need for drilling is way to fast for tapping and it's easy to break something. i would rate them equal to those universal sockets that have all the pins inside to form around a bolthead. all terrible.
Tip if you have NO TAP for the thread you need cut: If you have an extra bolt in the same size of what you need tapped, you can cut some flutes in that extra bolt with a Dremel or other rotary tool. This saved me from having to puchase an alternator bracket. When will I learn just how to tighten only to "goodentite"‽
I have moved exclusively over to tap or gun taps and spiral flute taps for all but the smallest sizes. Pretty much anything larger than a #6-32 or 3mm I am using them. Also those gun taps work really well in a mill for power tapping.
We always had high speed steel spiral fluted taps in the machine shop. They’re awesome. Unfortunately it’s just far too expensive to buy a high quality tap set like this for home use, in my opinion.
Machinist of 40 years he is completely correct One word of caution if your using a spiral flute tap DO NOT reverse the tap to break chips only turn left to remove the tap all of the way out of the hole. Or else they clog the hole.
If you're tapping a blind hole, when you get to the bottom you have to reverse the tap to get it out. will you be able to reverse it without clogging the hole and breaking the tap? Thanks
I have been switching over to the YG-1 brand spiral flute taps with a hardslick coating and love them. I typically chamfer the hole before starting and just use the spiral bottoming tap.
Adding cutting fluid to the drilling and tapping operations will assist the cutting and increase the life of the tools. Also put a chamfer on the top and bottom of the hole to remove burrs with a countersink cutter. This will allow a lead-in for the tap and later for the screw. Buy quality taps to reduce the chance of breakage, it’s worth the expense.
Brilliant work as always. Unless you’ve gotten solid training from a real live machinist you are always a bit sketchy about tapping threads. Thanks to you, I have a much better grasp of this whole voodoo/juju subject and can proceed with less abject terror!
I've good a lot of training from a machinist and I'm still a little worried every time. I would also recommend buying a tap follower if you have a drill press it makes holding and centering the tap super easy. as well as good cutting oil.
Years ago as a toolmaker when doing blind hole tapping by hand I would start with a plug tap and use some cutting oil and some Ivory soap shavings to fill the holes the soap would cause the chips to come up out of the hole then go to the bottoming tap to cut the rest of the threads to the required depth. In the sixties there was a small company in the Detroit area that actually sold a soap like plug in various tap drill sizes for use in blind hole tapping we had them when I started to work at a Valentine Metals shop in late 1968 their cutter body shop used them in all the blind holes in the cutter bodies when that company went out of business Valenite attempted to duplicate the formula. Like I mentioned Ivory and cutting oil works. Use lard for tapping cast iron
... about the "shaving foam" ... you remembered me that time me and one of my collegues went to a child hospital to install some new monitors on some ( already installed ) shelves ... We had to make some bores on that shelves and - to avoid metal chips around - we used some liquid soap nearby the drill bit ... it was a perfect job ( also, that shelves were made of steel ... ) 😂😂😂 No any chip loosed ... When each bore was finished, we just cleaned up with a piece of kitchen paper and some water ...
I worked in a tool store for a mining workshop & the fitters always referred to the taps as a Taper, Intermediate & Plug. Maybe we’re different in Oz. Great video mate & well explained. 👍🏼😎
Consider Form taps. I love them. been testing different moly products , but then tried AnchorLube. This was even better for less force needed to make thread. consider which materials you are working on. I'm a form tap person now as starting GOTO. for 3/8"-24 I go back to a cut tap from practice. No chips for form tap.
Holy tapping, batman! Tim is right! BUY A SPIRAL-TIP TAP NOW! I ordered one in 1/4-20. my most used size, and used it today. What's wrong with this tap? There's no resistance at all--did I break it? Did I tighten the tap handle? Nope. It just slides through like I was tapping butter, instead of 1/4" thick mild steel! Thanks, man!
I bought one titanium coated M10 spiral flute and i absolutelly love it.. instead of shoveling 3 taps and breaking chips like an i-diot, now ican screw it into hole, then break it and pull out few looong strings... and i am done :)
Best advice I ever got when it comes to taps and dies is NEVER buy a kit of them. They all suck! I buy this stuff as I need them. This way I buy high quality USA made taps that don't bite you in the ass later. Expect to pay 20bucks for a high quality 1/2" tap for example. Now that a few years have gone by, I've collected pretty much what I need and didn't feel a thing buying them either.
Awesome !!! I will definitely benefit from knowing that info. I have always had some basic knowledge about tapping threads, but now I feel like I know enough to really do it right. SO COOL!!!! Thank you so much for your time. I am learning welding and even other stuff which will make my fabrication and projects shine!
Very good observations. That said I rarely tap, so my cheap-ass Chinese pot metal set of taps and dyes that I got from Amazon for less than the price of a packet of cigarettes has seen me right. I use them incredibly carefully, and with oil, and they are spot on. I think good tapping tools are really the preserve of people doing it professionally and repeatedly.
I have 2 set of taps but only one had the die's with them. They're decent enough but I never realised the difference between the spiral flute =, etc. I think I'm going to invest in a small set to see how they work for me. Thanks for the heads up Tim mate..
Bravo Tim for coming out with this follow up video. There is so much misinformation out there about so many things (Like quenching a part in water or oil after tempering!) that many people can’t separate out the truth from the fiction, particularly after some well known people with TH-cam channels repeat that incorrect information. Tapping is included here. One person was using the terrible Anchor Lube for tapping cast iron, which is an absolute no no. Unfortunately, Anchor Lube is also a TH-cam phenomenon that it seems all TH-camrs have copied. It’s ok for some things, but not others, tapping included, which is why I’m mentioning it here.
Horses for courses All trained engineers know 1st 2nd and plug Posh taps spiral or roll are mainly for cnc or special occasion like a whistle and flute
If you piece is in a vice attached to the drill press then you can use the drill press with the tap and not need a guide. It is a bit time consuming swapping between the drill and tap but keep it all lined up. Twist the chuck with your hand.
Nice video. Now try forming taps which don't produce any chips at all because the displace the material rather than cutting it. I love them, though they're not for every situation and certainly not for hand tapping
I made this leap a few weeks ago. The only drawback is that the import set of taps and dies I used for a decade cost about 50 $ but each spiral flute tap costs more like 15 $.
Don't cheap out on tap and die sets. Mastercraft is exactly that Mastercrap. If you want quality tap and Die buy Lawson. I work in a welding and machine shop and believe me quality goes a long way especially taping Stainless Steel
Wow, I never knew there were different type of taps. I dont do a lot of threading, but if I have to buy a new size of Tap, I know what type it will be now. Thanks!
Thanks for the video on this. I’ve been doing a bunch more tapping lately, and it can be super satisfying, but also really frustrating. I’m definitely going to pick up a set, or two of the spiral taps,
The amazing part is that these taps cost very little more than the old straight flute taps. So little more that it's simply not worth buying a straight flute. The real problem is FINDING good taps locally. They can be nearly impossible to find locally. And I've ruined good pieces for that reason.
One other thing to point out: HSS taps cut a ***lot*** better than carbon steel, and most tap & die sets have carbon steel. Spiral flute taps are almost always HSS and spiral point taps are often HSS as well.
Thanks so much for this explanation of the different taps. I too have found the plug taps to be frustratingly slow. I would like to know if the spiral tip or spiral flute taps will work on stainless steel as well , as I've found that the plug taps don't work for that.
wow..you need to up-grade to a GearWrench tap set...Soooooo much nicer. I can't believe what an improvement to hand tapping this is...check them out, Gear Wrench Tap set.....Thanks Savanna
I have a problem for reworking / re tapping Case hardened (carburising .5mm) 5 mm C60 sheet with Geuhring M10x1 6HX HSS tap. Work piece threads seems to have hardened even after putting bolt during HT. Any solution for rework
I would like to try the spiral flute (gold coloured) tap in aluminium, as I think its self cleaning properties would be a great advantage in that situation.
Hi great video, the tap you showed as a bottoming tap is not. A bottoming tap is completely flat on the bottom to cut the threads all the way to the bottom of the hole.
A good tap going to have a GH size printed or stamped on the shank A GH 3 is the most popular Stock size . The tolerance on a good Tap is +0-.0005 each GH number represents a .0005 of and inch starting with GH1. It is no harder to make a GH1 than a GH11 the tolerance is the same .0005. I don't see a GH number on the taps you are using. So they need to measured with wires to see what size they are. I would buy a grade 8 bolt and see which tread would strip first A Thread Grinder
Hello, Tapping holes in various metals, with different alloys, and tempers, can be the cause of another complete study. I have drilled and tapped holes in various aluminum alloys, with 7075-T651 mold cavity material being a favorite. Pre hardened (28-32Rc) aisi 4140, and 420 stainless are two materials that are relatively easy to tap threads in. One material that that is extremely difficult/impossible to tap with any degree of success is Brush Wellman alloy 25. This is a beryllium-copper alloy, used where a material with good heat transfer and toughness are required. Tapping 10-32 unf x1/2” deep threads in this material is a great challenge. This material will cause an industrial quality spiral point tap with either Tin, or Ticn coating and a tapping oil mixture of high sulfur oil, and enough very fine molybdenum di-sulphide, to thicken the oil enough to cling to the tap. Even with this, you are going to get four-five holes, before you can expect SNAP. My experiences with tapping other metals has been pretty good. I am definitely in favor of spiral point (gun) taps, of first quality where possible. A few freebies that I have learned since 1966. When tapping blind holes, the conical point can be ground away, as it is not needed after the tap is ground. This allows a few more chips to accumulate before the tap breaks. The next modification is to grind all but two threads of taper from a used plug tap, rather than buying a bottoming tap. The spiral flute taps are primarily for power tapping with a Bridgeport or CNC mill or machining center. These taps tend to break quicker than a spiral point, as the flutes on a spiral point are shallower than the common hand taps. Much of what Tim stated here, is good information, but I have used hand taps only in situations where something such as a 3/4-10, or any other size like this is not on hand in spiral point form.When tapping holes for NPT type pipe plugs are needed to fit flush with a surface, it works well to leave seven teeth of the tap exposed above the surface. These holes will as stated, allow a dry-seal socket plug to “torque up”, flush. It seems to work with and size from 1/8-27, to 1”-11 1/2. As a handy reference, I have cut a shallow notch in one flute, with a 1/16” cut-off wheel, deep enough to be visible, without weakening the tap. When a tap breaks, and ruins your day, the first rescue is EDM. When that is not available, a four flute, coated end mill in a Bridgeport, will eat out the core, allowing the teeth to be blown out. Past that, it is time to start over, or move the hole, if possible.
2 flute tap. no starter no bottom no spiral. i always for the last 25 years used these taps. always used a butterfly impact but now of course its impact guns and still the snap on tap sockets. yes i have broken a few 10/24 and 1/4 taps over that many years but its not magic. and always use the right tap fluid. yes tap magic is great on steel but your basic wd 40 will prevent from sticking in alum.
You can learn to weld. I'll show you exactly what to do in my affordable online welding courses at courses.timwelds.com.
Is there any tapered spiral point tap ?
Another thing to consider is tap strength. Four flute taps are notorious for breaking off in the hole. I usually prefer a two flute tap, as it is far stronger. Another tap is the roll form tap. It requires a different drill size, but you can tap some softer materials, and they are hard to break.
Correct. Also, straight flute taps are stronger than either spiral point or spiral flute taps, because the ‘core’ of the tap is larger.
Having said that, however, the spiral taps seem to need far less torque to drive them.
Robert
My machinist once told me that the weakest tap is 6-32. That size has the worst ratio of center to outer diameter.
Excellent. This is the first time I've seen the spiral flute and spiral point taps used for hand tapping. I'm sold already. I have large set of straight flute taps and now I want the others too.
Spiral flute is the only way to go!
as a starting machist
Good points Tim!! As a retired machinist I truly believe in buying the best tools you can afford. In my opinion OSG and EMUGE make the best taps and using a quality tapping fluid will help a lot. Tapping metal is a skill and you have to get a "feel" for it especially in the smaller thread sizes. I enjoy your videos and keep up the great content!
Cunningham's Law states "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."
That’s wrong my friend. All wrong.
@rusty_restorations36 do you reckon he gets it?
Having broken a few taps in my days as a machinist, I prefer spiral point taps even for blind holes when I'm hand tapping. They have the strongest profile of any cut tap and are way less prone to breakage than spiral flute taps. Yes, they cause the chips to bunch up in the bottom of the hole, but if you stop before they are totally impacted, they can be picked or blown out. The little extra time it takes is a lot less than breaking a tap would cost.
When you switch from plug tap to the bottoming spiral tap for a blind hole use a compressed air gun/blower to clear the chips from the hole. I also like using air to clean chips from my taps between holes as it cleans and cools simultaneously. Great video. I've found the quality and wear off the tap in use to be very significant in how they perform. Covering thread percentage on a drill/tap chart may help some viewers. I generally shoot for 70-75% depending on the material I'm working with and the depth of hole.
Machinery’s Handbook says that 60-65% thread is sufficient for most applications and higher percentage in my experience leads to more broken taps. Spiral flute taps will bring the chips out of the hole as the tap progresses. A good tap fluid such as tap-magic or moly-dee will be a great help. The best quality taps in my experience are made by Emuge and titex.
@@alanrawson-wg8io Thread percentages is old info. It is non standard now because it was so miscalculated by so many entities. It is expressly forbidden by the ASME standard.
ASME UN and UNR threads B1.1-2003:
"Past changes in the thread form designation of the “basic” thread height from 0.750H to 0.625H
confused the calculation of percent of thread engagement. This calculation has been used in the
past for threaded products users to determine drill size selection. It is now recommended that
users select a drill size that will result in a hole size that lies between the maximum and minimum
size of the internal thread’s minor diameter shown in the tables included in this Standard"
While I have a few older straight taps still in my box, the majority of my tapping is done with machine taps or spiral taps. For thin metal I use drill-taps which incorporate a drill bit, a spiral tap and a deburr in one tool.
Regardless of what style of tap you use, the most important thing is to use the right cutting fluid for the metal you are tapping.
Hi , I've been using the what you call the spiral point tap for most of my life and I'm 69 , I'm a Fitter & Turner and we call it a Gun Tap they are Awesome as was your demo , it was nice to see someone explain the difference's
I started watching your channel to get some beginner welding tips but continued watching because you share a huge amount of useful information in a very accessible manner. I appreciate your channel and your attitude. Thank you so much for making these videos.
I'm really keen on buying my first welder and I've now gone back over lots of your videos I've really enjoyed watching them and just wanted to say thanks, they're great and really informative
Hi got a stick welder love it it's cheap I would recommend getting one
Bought the HF Titanium 125 for my first welder (upgraded wire) wanted a MIG but didn’t want to deal with gas bottles and very happy with it
@@msk3905 You can use flux core wire without using gas.
@@danl.4743 Yes that's why I went with the Flux core because as stated I didn't want to deal with the gas
@@msk3905 Ah OK. You didn't say it was a MIG welder.
Very well done. I was that same stupid boat and having a hard time hand tapping but now I’m gonna buy that set and retry. Glad I found this.
First time watching one of your videos. I'm a cnc machinist and use some pretty crazy taps everyday, I used a $150 M6 tap yesterday. This was a great video very informative. Another type of tap is roll form, they are meant for cnc machines as the hole size is more critical and they are harder to start by hand but if you have a very deep hole to tap they can be worth it as they don't make chips at all.
wanted to mention, at an old machinist shop i found an old can of Tap Magic for aluminum and thought it was odd as I had never seen it before. I grabbed it but didn't think it would make much of a difference. After tapping 100+ holes in Al for some parts I was making, it makes a BIG difference and could not have finished the project without it.
I'm just an hobbyst, for tapping aluminum i use pure alcool, i find it very usefull, as aluminum tends to melt ... Pure alcool ( for making cakes and liquors ) is indeed very expensive ( i'm from Italy ) but i use it just sometime, and just a bit. Using alcool for medical appliance would be very cheap, but it smells too much ( here it has some acetone inside, to avoid using it in making liquors ... that is highly taxed, so it's prohibitive cost ... )
Just one point ... not to make too much tapping in a session, or you'll get drunk !!!
And also alcool is flammable !!!
Have you never tried it ?
I was tought about threading holes two times. First lesson happened 40 years ago and second today.
Word of caution about the spiral flute taps: they are MUCH weaker than a straight flute are a very easy to break. I'm not advising against them, they are great for blind holes, just some advice from a machinist.
Spiral flute taps are ment to be used with a machine because of their weakness. A bottoming hand tap should be used by hand.
Imo no tap should be used in a drill press. Just experience of a Die maker.
@@bowez9 oh come now, as a tool and die maker are you going to say you've NEVER tapped with a drill chuck? That being said, there is a BIG difference between a skilled machinist tapping with a drill chuck and the average DIYer. I feel perfectly confident tapping 8-32 in .125 aluminum all day, but I would never advise the inexperienced to try it.
@@mdunbar008 nope only a collet in a mill, or by hand.
@@bowez9 I'm impressed then, every older machinist I know has tapped with a drill chuck, but we've all worked places where the owner was like "tap collets, that's what the drill chuck is for"
Just what I needed! Thanks Tim.... And thanks to the people who pointed this out.
Another tap type is a thread forming tap or roll tap. This type of tab does not make chips, so you don't have to worry about chip evacuation. The drill you use is a different size and the tap displaces the metal to form the threads. The threads are very strong because the tap work hardens them as they are formed.
Interesting thanks for this info.
Something that I did not know until recently: Around these parts, if you go to a good hardware store and buy a good quality tap you get a pack of 3. Duplicates right? There is a trick. If you look at them closely you will notice that they are all different, the taper and the depth of teeth are different. You are supposed to use them in sequence when threading hard material.
Are you saying that if you only use the first tap that a screw will not enter the thread because the pitch diameter of the tapped hole is not yet large enough?
@@pauleohl I guess it depends on the tolerance I only have these in 3 and 4mm size so the difference is minimal.
The first tap in the set is the starting tap. For shallow through holes it is perfectly fine. The next tap is a plug tap and the third is a bottoming tap. These are used for tapping blind holes. The plug tap is used first as far as it goes and then the bottoming tap threads down to the bottom of the hole.
@@millwrightrick1 Bottoming tap should be flat? All three are pointy so not sure if that is true for this set.
As a non technical person in the mechanical and machining world I found this video very useful. I've been thinking about buying a tap and die set to help with some of my 3D printed parts for the screws and nuts I make. I'm glad I didn't rush out to buy anything before getting some more information. Looks like I still have more room for learning before I make a purchase to figure out exactly what I need to be useful.
I have an assortment of 2-flute spiral taps now and rarely use my standard taps I've had since the 1970s. Just picked some roll forming taps and will be trying them. They work great for tapping soft materials and even wood. Standard taps were designed a 100 years ago for making threads in steel. Just a tip on using taps in a three jaw drill chuck: the shanks of taps are harder than drill bits and will tend to slip in the hardened chuck jaws. Another tip is to use a drill press with a tap follower for getting the taps lined up with the work. Glad to see you used a tap guide block plus tapping fluid.
In Reference to tapping as an apprentice toolmaker [58 years ago] one of the Russian tradesmen took a bet and won that he could ; with a 1/2 R.H. W.W. tap cut a 1/2 L.H.W.W. . thread . That feat that I witnessed has always stuck in my head . If anyone out there wants to try and work it out I would be pleased to see your TH-cam Video. Cheers from Down under in Australia .
AGAIN you have shown this old man a MUCH BETTER WAY! THANK YOU!
Now I know why I was never able to cut threads I was happy with in blind hopes using standard taps. Years ago I just gave up and resorted to always using my lathe to cut threads (which necessarily limits what I could cut)l but after watching the first half of your video I went out to the shed, looked through my random bits bin, found one of those spiral fluted taps, and cut a perfect set of threads on the first try (then did it again with a drill press).
Threaded holes aren’t something I make often as most of my use cases call for permanent connections, but this video has still probably saved me a score of hours every year no longer having to rig up some ridiculous jig to hold a part in place on the lathe. Thanks.
Spiral taps are relative new for the home market, and drills that combine a tap so that it drills the correct hole are brilliant.
those suck . the speed you need for drilling is way to fast for tapping and it's easy to break something. i would rate them equal to those universal sockets that have all the pins inside to form around a bolthead. all terrible.
Tip if you have NO TAP for the thread you need cut:
If you have an extra bolt in the same size of what you need tapped, you can cut some flutes in that extra bolt with a Dremel or other rotary tool. This saved me from having to puchase an alternator bracket. When will I learn just how to tighten only to "goodentite"‽
You might "repair" a damaged thread with your bolt or cut a thread in wood, but never be able to cut a thread in steel or any metal other than lead.
I have moved exclusively over to tap or gun taps and spiral flute taps for all but the smallest sizes. Pretty much anything larger than a #6-32 or 3mm I am using them. Also those gun taps work really well in a mill for power tapping.
Wow . . . did not know this Tim . . . as a former auto tech, I found the info helpful and intriguing . . . thank you!
We always had high speed steel spiral fluted taps in the machine shop. They’re awesome. Unfortunately it’s just far too expensive to buy a high quality tap set like this for home use, in my opinion.
Machinist of 40 years he is completely correct
One word of caution if your using a spiral flute tap DO NOT reverse the tap to break chips only turn left to remove the tap all of the way out of the hole. Or else they clog the hole.
If you're tapping a blind hole, when you get to the bottom you have to reverse the tap to get it out. will you be able to reverse it without clogging the hole and breaking the tap?
Thanks
I have been switching over to the YG-1 brand spiral flute taps with a hardslick coating and love them. I typically chamfer the hole before starting and just use the spiral bottoming tap.
Adding cutting fluid to the drilling and tapping operations will assist the cutting and increase the life of the tools. Also put a chamfer on the top and bottom of the hole to remove burrs with a countersink cutter. This will allow a lead-in for the tap and later for the screw. Buy quality taps to reduce the chance of breakage, it’s worth the expense.
Brilliant work as always. Unless you’ve gotten solid training from a real live machinist you are always a bit sketchy about tapping threads. Thanks to you, I have a much better grasp of this whole voodoo/juju subject and can proceed with less abject terror!
I've good a lot of training from a machinist and I'm still a little worried every time. I would also recommend buying a tap follower if you have a drill press it makes holding and centering the tap super easy. as well as good cutting oil.
i use a cordless drill with a regular straight flute plug tap for aluminum all the time
Years ago as a toolmaker when doing blind hole tapping by hand I would start with a plug tap and use some cutting oil and some Ivory soap shavings to fill the holes the soap would cause the chips to come up out of the hole then go to the bottoming tap to cut the rest of the threads to the required depth. In the sixties there was a small company in the Detroit area that actually sold a soap like plug in various tap drill sizes for use in blind hole tapping we had them when I started to work at a Valentine Metals shop in late 1968 their cutter body shop used them in all the blind holes in the cutter bodies when that company went out of business Valenite attempted to duplicate the formula. Like I mentioned Ivory and cutting oil works. Use lard for tapping cast iron
... about the "shaving foam" ... you remembered me that time me and one of my collegues went to a child hospital to install some new monitors on some ( already installed ) shelves ...
We had to make some bores on that shelves and - to avoid metal chips around - we used some liquid soap nearby the drill bit ... it was a perfect job ( also, that shelves were made of steel ... ) 😂😂😂 No any chip loosed ...
When each bore was finished, we just cleaned up with a piece of kitchen paper and some water ...
I worked in a tool store for a mining workshop & the fitters always referred to the taps as a Taper, Intermediate & Plug. Maybe we’re different in Oz. Great video mate & well explained. 👍🏼😎
Consider Form taps. I love them. been testing different moly products , but then tried AnchorLube. This was even better for less force needed to make thread. consider which materials you are working on.
I'm a form tap person now as starting GOTO. for 3/8"-24 I go back to a cut tap from practice. No chips for form tap.
Wait, are you just a chill non-judgy guy that likes to make stuff and share interesting things?!
Two thumbs ups man, I dig it.
Holy tapping, batman! Tim is right! BUY A SPIRAL-TIP TAP NOW! I ordered one in 1/4-20. my most used size, and used it today. What's wrong with this tap? There's no resistance at all--did I break it? Did I tighten the tap handle? Nope. It just slides through like I was tapping butter, instead of 1/4" thick mild steel!
Thanks, man!
I bought one titanium coated M10 spiral flute and i absolutelly love it.. instead of shoveling 3 taps and breaking chips like an i-diot, now ican screw it into hole, then break it and pull out few looong strings... and i am done :)
Your videos are the best. Your clear and concise presentation is very much appreciated.
My man's a genius, used the internet for good. Thanks for the knowledge now I can stop calling people who use taps in drills crazy.
Can also try using Moly-D cutting oil by far the best I have tried for tapping any material.
Best advice I ever got when it comes to taps and dies is NEVER buy a kit of them. They all suck! I buy this stuff as I need them. This way I buy high quality USA made taps that don't bite you in the ass later. Expect to pay 20bucks for a high quality 1/2" tap for example. Now that a few years have gone by, I've collected pretty much what I need and didn't feel a thing buying them either.
Awesome !!! I will definitely benefit from knowing that info. I have always had some basic knowledge about tapping threads, but now I feel like I know enough to really do it right. SO COOL!!!! Thank you so much for your time. I am learning welding and even other stuff which will make my fabrication and projects shine!
Very good observations.
That said I rarely tap, so my cheap-ass Chinese pot metal set of taps and dyes that I got from Amazon for less than the price of a packet of cigarettes has seen me right. I use them incredibly carefully, and with oil, and they are spot on. I think good tapping tools are really the preserve of people doing it professionally and repeatedly.
I have a standard set and never knew there were that many choices in styles. Thanks for the video.
I have 2 set of taps but only one had the die's with them. They're decent enough but I never realised the difference between the spiral flute =, etc. I think I'm going to invest in a small set to see how they work for me. Thanks for the heads up Tim mate..
Bravo Tim for coming out with this follow up video. There is so much misinformation out there about so many things (Like quenching a part in water or oil after tempering!) that many people can’t separate out the truth from the fiction, particularly after some well known people with TH-cam channels repeat that incorrect information. Tapping is included here. One person was using the terrible Anchor Lube for tapping cast iron, which is an absolute no no. Unfortunately, Anchor Lube is also a TH-cam phenomenon that it seems all TH-camrs have copied. It’s ok for some things, but not others, tapping included, which is why I’m mentioning it here.
Thanks for the tip on the last one! 😃
Blue Wizard tri wing is the only tap I use in my cordless drill. Fast and easy and lasts a long time with Cool Cut cutting oil.
I learned something new today.
Now should I stop at 1 thing
or keep looking for more answers?
Horses for courses
All trained engineers know 1st 2nd and plug
Posh taps spiral or roll are mainly for cnc or special occasion like a whistle and flute
If you piece is in a vice attached to the drill press then you can use the drill press with the tap and not need a guide. It is a bit time consuming swapping between the drill and tap but keep it all lined up. Twist the chuck with your hand.
Great tip! Thanks!
Thanks, I recently started considering getting a tap and die set and this was very helpful.
Thanx, I like you have never had good luck at tapping holes, I once broke a 1/4 X 20 tap backing it out of brass.
Nice video. Now try forming taps which don't produce any chips at all because the displace the material rather than cutting it. I love them, though they're not for every situation and certainly not for hand tapping
I made this leap a few weeks ago. The only drawback is that the import set of taps and dies I used for a decade cost about 50 $ but each spiral flute tap costs more like 15 $.
Like the idea of using spiral taps for hand tapping although expensive to change over now and mine do need to last a lifetime.
Don't cheap out on tap and die sets. Mastercraft is exactly that Mastercrap. If you want quality tap and Die buy Lawson. I work in a welding and machine shop and believe me quality goes a long way especially taping Stainless Steel
Wow, I never knew there were different type of taps. I dont do a lot of threading, but if I have to buy a new size of Tap, I know what type it will be now. Thanks!
You saved me hours of hand tapping on a project! Thank you
Thanks for the video on this. I’ve been doing a bunch more tapping lately, and it can be super satisfying, but also really frustrating. I’m definitely going to pick up a set, or two of the spiral taps,
Thanks for the advice. I’ll definitely look into some taps like those
Why didn't you use any cuting oil just asking?
Very cool video ......... never knew that there was so many types of tapers out there.
Cheers Tim
The amazing part is that these taps cost very little more than the old straight flute taps. So little more that it's simply not worth buying a straight flute.
The real problem is FINDING good taps locally. They can be nearly impossible to find locally. And I've ruined good pieces for that reason.
There are actually drill bits that have a tap at the top for drilling then the hole is the right size for the tap
What brand was your tap set? It looks like a very good brand that I use.
One other thing to point out: HSS taps cut a ***lot*** better than carbon steel, and most tap & die sets have carbon steel. Spiral flute taps are almost always HSS and spiral point taps are often HSS as well.
Excellent! I always enjoy learning more in depth. Very informative video. Thanks.
Thanks Tim for sharing these new tap designs. I always dreaded tapping.
Once you get under a 6-32, tapping is scary.
Those are quite impressive to use like that in a hand drill! I thought, those'll bind and the clutch kick in, but nope, straight through!
5:02 1st cut 2nd cut 3rd cut... so a starter tap, then 2nd cut then what you call a plug tap... how we were taught 40 years ago :)
Thanks so much for this explanation of the different taps. I too have found the plug taps to be frustratingly slow. I would like to know if the spiral tip or spiral flute taps will work on stainless steel as well , as I've found that the plug taps don't work for that.
Didnt know these exested, thank you for sharing, have a blessed day América
I like that spiral flute tap. It just looks cool. Like if metal parts had nightmares this tap would be the content
Thanks for the tip. Taps are way more complicated than I realized.
I wonder what would happen if you use that down angle tap on blind hole. Would you stil need straight flute or spiral flute tap to do that?
wow..you need to up-grade to a GearWrench tap set...Soooooo much nicer.
I can't believe what an improvement to hand tapping this is...check them out,
Gear Wrench Tap set.....Thanks Savanna
Thanks for the demonstration.
Why do small taps like M3 have pointy ends and bigger taps like M10 have holes and their both ends?
I have a problem for reworking / re tapping Case hardened (carburising .5mm) 5 mm C60 sheet with Geuhring M10x1 6HX HSS tap. Work piece threads seems to have hardened even after putting bolt during HT.
Any solution for rework
Did i miss why Spiral flute wasnt preferred?
Dood 100% I use the black ones with a cutting edge in a drill in stainless they are the best !
Is there a similar variety for dyes? Love to see videos on that.
How about a video on tapping small holes like 4-40 3-56 etc. Such as in gunsmithing...
I would like to try the spiral flute (gold coloured) tap in aluminium, as I think its self cleaning properties would be a great advantage in that situation.
Hi great video, the tap you showed as a bottoming tap is not. A bottoming tap is completely flat on the bottom to cut the threads all the way to the bottom of the hole.
A good tap going to have a GH size printed or stamped on the shank A GH 3 is the most popular Stock size . The tolerance on a good Tap is +0-.0005 each GH number represents a .0005 of and inch starting with GH1. It is no harder to make a GH1 than a GH11 the tolerance is the same .0005. I don't see a GH number on the taps you are using. So they need to measured with wires to see what size they are. I would buy a grade 8 bolt and see which tread would strip first A Thread Grinder
very good and usefull information Tim, thank for share, best regards from Venezuela
I'm lucky to find any taps locally anyway, this stuff comes online only anymore.
Another great video and I learned a few things about tapping holes. Thanks for the excellent content! 👍
The high spiral taps will also be the easiest to turn out of all of them.
This was an education...thanks Tim
Very good information. Thanks
Hello,
Tapping holes in various metals, with different alloys, and tempers, can be the cause of another complete study. I have drilled and tapped holes in various aluminum alloys, with 7075-T651 mold cavity material being a favorite. Pre hardened (28-32Rc) aisi 4140, and 420 stainless are two materials that are relatively easy to tap threads in. One material that that is extremely difficult/impossible to tap with any degree of success is Brush Wellman alloy 25. This is a beryllium-copper alloy, used where a material with good heat transfer and toughness are required. Tapping 10-32 unf x1/2” deep threads in this material is a great challenge. This material will cause an industrial quality spiral point tap with either Tin, or Ticn coating and a tapping oil mixture of high sulfur oil, and enough very fine molybdenum di-sulphide, to thicken the oil enough to cling to the tap. Even with this, you are going to get four-five holes, before you can expect SNAP.
My experiences with tapping other metals has been pretty good. I am definitely in favor of spiral point (gun) taps, of first quality where possible. A few freebies that I have learned since 1966. When tapping blind holes, the conical point can be ground away, as it is not needed after the tap is ground. This allows a few more chips to accumulate before the tap breaks. The next modification is to grind all but two threads of taper from a used plug tap, rather than buying a bottoming tap. The spiral flute taps are primarily for power tapping with a Bridgeport or CNC mill or machining center. These taps tend to break quicker than a spiral point, as the flutes on a spiral point are shallower than the common hand taps.
Much of what Tim stated here, is good information, but I have used hand taps only in situations where something such as a 3/4-10, or any other size like this is not on hand in spiral point form.When tapping holes for NPT type pipe plugs are needed to fit flush with a surface, it works well to leave seven teeth of the tap exposed above the surface. These holes will as stated, allow a dry-seal socket plug to “torque up”, flush. It seems to work with and size from 1/8-27, to 1”-11 1/2. As a handy reference, I have cut a shallow notch in one flute, with a 1/16” cut-off wheel, deep enough to be visible, without weakening the tap.
When a tap breaks, and ruins your day, the first rescue is EDM. When that is not available, a four flute, coated end mill in a Bridgeport, will eat out the core, allowing the teeth to be blown out. Past that, it is time to start over, or move the hole, if possible.
if you are getting long chips from a drill bit your rpm's are too fast and the feed rate is too low
I don't understand why the flutes have to be spiralled to push the swathe down and not spiralled to come up through the flutes.
What about the "Thread Forming" taps.
Basically no chips are made.
redrok
2 flute tap. no starter no bottom no spiral. i always for the last 25 years used these taps. always used a butterfly impact but now of course its impact guns and still the snap on tap sockets. yes i have broken a few 10/24 and 1/4 taps over that many years but its not magic. and always use the right tap fluid. yes tap magic is great on steel but your basic wd 40 will prevent from sticking in alum.