It’s a shame that Finn and Minerva will never know what actually happened. From Minerva’s perspective, her partner abandoned her and took her son with him for no reason whatsoever. From Finn’s perspective, his father betrayed his mother and put his life in serious danger. The only one who knew what happened was Martin. But he didn’t want to mend any bridges that he burned and just stuck to the only thing he was good at before he met Minerva: being a con artist.
When Young Martin winked at baby fin, he wasn't lying in the moment as he confirmed, but it *became* a lie when he couldn't uphold his promise. Thus, he now winks whenever he lies in an effort to hide that one broken promise that decimated his soul.
I think it was a lie. His wink has always been a gesture of lying. He winks before he told finn he is coming back to get him because Martin didn't think he could beat the guardian. It will be his last battle and so he winks and told baby finn he is coming back
Old martin uses the right wink to tell lies Young martin uses the left wink to a truth which the old martin used once when he said “family is important
@@wolfgangbloodymeatsack1687 shut up, how dumb do you sound? That’s like him explaining a woman who manipulates and deceive men and traps a man into child support, and said “that’s the story of women” then it wouldn’t seem right to say that..don’t lower your competence to the level of a stereotypical Demeanor.
“I meant to come back for ya but... I didn’t! That’s true...” the first time we see an ounce of humanity in Martin he feels guilty for not going back but honestly who would even expect their child to be alive after that much time. Still a bad person but an excellent character and arc
Yeah I never considered the fact that Martin might not actually have amnesia but that line is probably the most convincing for me. Like if you believe that he does have amnesia, it is was less important than if he is genuinely just a really flawed man who tried his best, failed, and then fully embraced his own corruption. I think the episode where he takes care of the koala baby because it reminds him of Finn shows that he actually does care about him, even though he of course double crosses him. But I think a lot of it is him self destructing and putting things in “the vault” because they’re too painful
What I prefer to believe is that Martin tried to look for Finn, he actually tried maybe for years before one day, he just gave him. Assumed Finn was dead at the bottom of the sea. In the end, he never "came back for ya", but not because he did try. Even then, feeling like a failure esp after trying it then tore him apart.
The character of Martin hit me pretty hard due to how my dad changed after the first of his concussions. This whole story resonated with me on a level i cant verbally describe.
I love that as different as Finn is from his father, he actually has a very similar method of dealing with stuff he can't handle in what he calls his vault. And we see Finn have reeaally similar problems with guilt too, where he blames himself for events he really doesn't have much control over.
Its like with the hermit eyes, except Finn doesn't accept his preconceived notions of people and wants to think differently, compared to Martin, who just accepts who he is because he can't go back mentally
Wish finn had the con artist moves and face manipulation and whatever Martin has Also wish finn had a giant falcon mech that turns into a cool red car and falcon bike
@@ThiccFurryBoi34 but I think he does and we can see it when he tried to get the candy kids to go straight. The kids told him that he was just like them.
It's a mixture of brain damage and trauma. Massive unending PTSD. He knows Minerva is still there, but he never goes back to her. He can't bare to face her. Even knowing Finn is alive and well, his brain can't process it, he can't ever go back to that moment in his memories.
Yeah, I agree it is twofold. Probably forgetting Minerva and Finn made him forget his growth and change of heart during that one or two years. Probably remembering stuff was uncomfortable, painful and distressing. Not necessarily because of PTSD only, but because his blurry memories were of someone capable of care and heroism, totally different to his own self-image (built around the con-artist he used to be and probably the pirate he learned to be). It was the concussion what allowed him to resume his self-centred life of deceit, but it was avoidance (for any reason) which ultimately made him decide to "burn bridges" instead of working out his past. He decided to take the memory loss as a new blank slate.
@@parratahe had half forgotten fragments of memories of the person he could have been and a life that would be denied to him. If we assume he took awhile to remember anything then he may have decided Finn was dead and he couldn't return without him, or just to much time had passed. By the time he encountered Finn again, he definitely would have thought to much time had passed. He'd given up on being anything but the way he is and Finn had a life and home. There truly was no going back.
Kyle Walters not really considering that Finn literally can't recall the thing he's afraid of even though he knows he's doing it. while good old dad is trying to mental block it, he still recalls the past and is hurt by it.
Finn's Vault is likely a thing he inherited from being a Catalyst Comet, given how he can recall his past lives and what not. What Martin has is a fairly normal thingamajig.
Jordan DeHart I don't know if I'd say the vault is inheritance from the comet. probably just Finn really good at mental blocking or something stronger considering, while Martin still feels pain when thinking about the past even though he doesnt remember everything
I've said this and I'll say it again. Martin was a conman, but Minerva and the birth of Finn changed him. When suddenly his life turned upside down to a point beyond repair (losing his baby son), he went back to the man he was. A lowlife conman with no regards of anybody but himself.
Ztrikes He's going back to what's safe and what he knows. You can tell, even in the past, family life was an oddity for him, it wasn't the norm. When he meets Finn it's like a huge risk. Maybe he feels like he'd screw up both their lives. What could a con man add to a heros life is probably what he thinks.
Ztrikes and who can blame him especially in a world like that must be hard to get around when you don't have the a magical dog and friendly relationship with legitly every other kingdom in the land
Kowalski, get me an big chungus a sprite cranberry with a skirt and a dab like wiskalifa because that's how mafia works and karen took the kids with the lemon car so do you know da wae to a free sha vaka do. There, I made long sentence starting with the profile pic
This reminds me of how Finn uses his 'vault' to store away disturbing memories so he doesn't think of them again. It seriously seems like Martin does the same thing with his past, which kinda gives it a deeper meaning too when Finn (and Fern) finally face the vault. It draws an interesting parallel between father and son, even if the writers didn't intend it
the shark was the lady the loan shark the tiger was the tiger the squid was the grabby henchmen martins story was true but was all over the place and downplayed this man remembers but he is ashamed escapism at its finest
Why cant it be a mix of amnesia and him becoming a jerk after assuming his child was lost and that he could never return home? They aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.
Sure, anyone would agree that brain injuries are entirely believable. Using this to explain the character's shift in personality only undermines anything meaningful in the story.
There was the story of Phineas P. Gage, iron rod went through his head, lived the rest of his life like any human, only he changed beyond the incident, almost like a whole different person beyond that experience. Real story, was pretty big for psychology.
The idea that Martin's change of personality from being a protective father to a scumbag was due to brain damage is not "cheap". It is in tune with the theme in Adventure Time where the line between hero and villain is very fine. We saw that in Simon/Ice King, The Lich/Sweetpea, etc.. Adventure Time is careful in not lumping heroes and villains in nice black and white categories. It tries to tell the audience that the characters could easily turn - and that helps us not to be so judgemental.
But there's a difference between Martin instantly getting amnesia, and Simon slowly losing his mind while taking care of a little and knowing he can't always be there for her. As for Sweetpea, he's practically a whole different character than the Litch, yes Ice King is different than Simon but there was a transitional period, and most of the tragedy is the belief he's still there somewhere. The Litch was litteraly pure evil personafied, there was no redemption
@@norminpontu9905 yea but he doesn't remember some of finn's memories. (Like when he said that he vaguely remembers/knows PB but doesn't remember specific details about her.)
@@xjessie_drawsx wasn’t Fern/Sword Finn a version of Finn from the same alternate timeline as the Jake who was transformed into the old man dreaming Prismo back to life?
This is too sad. People always dismiss Martin as just being a bad guy but it is way more than that. I wonder if being an omnipotent comet has changed him. Really good video.
Martins arc is really thought provoking it essentially ends in his suicide but it’s because he’s offered a chance to be reborn in a new more powerful form disconnected from his past completely.
Lowkey think Martin is a milder version of Ice King but still a parallel. He has some recollection, but it’s all almost gone. Much like Ice King don’t remember saving Marcie, Martin doesn’t remember saving Finn, whom he really loved.
I wonder how finn would react if he knew the full story and the sacrifices his father made and how hard it must have been to try and tell that story even though it might not be completly true yes brain damage might messed up his brain a bit but still this must of taken alot to tell this story specially sense he feels so bad about it
Finn could potentially learn the truth if he’s able to access the Guardians memory drives or black box. I don’t think the one time where the Guardian was defeated would be something that would go unrecorded.
I guess without his Son and Wife, he had nothing two keep his good nature intact. Even when he met Finn he probably believed there was no way his "real son" could've survived such an ordeal. Not to mention the fact he was too far gone(as a good person) by the time Finn freed him. I don't excuse his actions, but at least now we can understand them.
I think when Martin came to he thought his son was dead. He knows at that point he can never go back to the islands. Minerva will never forgive him for losing Finn and may very well kill him. At that point, he can only move forward to the next con.
As someone who uses escapism and memory suppression to deal with losing access to their sons, I can say that it gets hard to remember what the truth was.. You don't want to forget everything, because even the bad times were part of something you treasure, but it's so depressing - to the point that you cannot function at the most basic level - to dwell on the past, so you just label yourself as the bad guy because you're not there, and try to move on by keeping yourself constantly distracted with anything you can do to keep it off your mind; eventually it hurts just as much that you can't accurately recall the past, so you have a new reason to try not to.
My dad is the same way, but he didn’t lose access to us, i cut him off because unlike my mom, I wasn’t going to tolerate his belittling and patronizing behavior when things weren’t exactly like how he wanted it. And he resents me for it, because we’re stubborn in opposite directions.
which is why this method doesn't work is extremely harmful to oneself in the long run Not to mention that by labelling ones self the irredeemable bad guy , you have just found an excellent excuse to absolve yourself of any blame and give up on any shreds of responsibility you had left. Its essentially a rationalisation of giving up. Its not that you are no longer there, you aren't even trying to be there in any way shape or form, and thus become the bad guy. Its a "if i cant have it all how i want no one gets anything and i absolve myself of any responsibility". Its the logic of the "well my spouse is trying to keep my kids away from me. Well what are you doing about it? Oh nothing." . But its not a real excuse, and you are just harming everyone
In one episode fin takes over as the candykingdom doctor while Dr. Princess takes a vacation and fin says being a doctor "feels right" That might link to his mom, Minerva, being a doctor on the islands.
Probably one of those plot points that were never meant to go anywhere and were forgotten by the writers but miraculously lined up just fine with future reveals .
Remember when Martin got a "new mode" from the Catalyst Comet? The Comet offers Finn a "higher mode of existence" and he declines, I think the higher mode is only offered to Finn because he's lived so many mortal lived already. Then Martin chimes in saying "I want a new mode" and him and the comet disappear. In the opening scene of the Gum War we see a purple and orange butterfly (purple like the comet, orange like Martins tanned skin/hair/orangish shirt?) Finn says "there it is again" off screen, which I think is actually a subtle nod to the butterfly. I think Martin is that butterfly, he wanted a new mode but in order for him to reach the level Finn is at he has to start low and eventually that butterfly becomes Shermy (orange reddish shirt, more of a renegade than a hero) who then finds the Finn Sword. "I always planned on coming back for you." Really enjoyed the video, Martin is one of my favourite characters and I don't think he gets enough credit. Let me know what you think of my theory!
I don't think the brain damage theory is cheap. Seems to be rather in line with adventure times theme, that sometimes you have no control over the person you end up becoming. Simon never chose to become the iceking, Magic man became mad through great loss and returned to good when his madness was transferred from him and the Lich and Golb never made the conscious choice to be bad, as destruction is simply their nature. Frankly, this is the greatest tragedy, being transformed into a scoundrel by your most selfless and heroic act, unable to even remember the good man you once were.
the only part of this I'd disagree with is "Simon never chose to become the iceking" the first time he put the crown on it took him by surprise, but every time he put it on after that was a knowing choice, he noticed and acknowledged the effects that using the crown had on him but chose to keep on using it to protect Marceline. he made a sacrifice to become the Ice King for the good of someone else.
It is cheap because its adventure time. People who say its cheap are picking up on the incredible narrative dissonance it would require. Its akin to fin dying because he fell down the stairs, or having a whole episode where finn has to deal with tetanus from a minor scrape. Its jarring, it violates the rules of the world as much as legolas drawing a gun. Look at the examples you gave. An immortal wizard driven insane and loosing himself by his crown. A chaotic sorcerer thats mad as long as he has magic, otherwise hes fine. Otherworldly forces of absolute evil. Normal human being hit a little too hard in the head. You see the incongruence here? Thats what people pick up on
@@DimT670it's adventure time. We literally have an episode where Jake, the magic multidimensional alien talking dog gets amnesia and becomes crazy from having been hit hard on the head Why's a normal human guy being hit hard on the head and getting the same condition more unbelievable?
I feel like Martin... intentionally left out Finn being born on an island. He was scared that the guardian was still there, and that it would finish the job.
Interesting thought but I am not sure that was conscious enough about everything to be the reason for it. More likely he was traumatized and wanted to forget everything so he isn't trying to remember much at all. But I would love to believe that even as his hallowed self he tried to pull his son from danger
Hot breadsticks is what we bake, we don't bake pie and we don't bake cake! Funny to think that Finn survived off of hot breadsticks with no water for who knows how long.
tolin It would be really cool to see an episodes on Martin's past and how he had to con so many people in space just to get by, that probably what he's crime was coning the wrong space man and seriously fucking himself over that's probably why he has burnt so many bridges, using everybody to give himself an advantage
He ran from his son, if he had stuck with him yes they both most likely would have died. But when he ran to sacrifice himself he and Finn's cosmic link was severed and Finn went on to get into tons of trouble and it was layed on Martin's shoulders because he even admitted that he planned to come back but he didn't and didn't help Finn with his troubles
The sentence “The only time non-sentient bananas were prominent was in the nightosphere, but back then they were demon poop” is NOT the kind of thing you hear about a regular cartoon hahaha
Oh! I was watching this and I just had the thought: what if Martin winking at Baby Finn before he left the raft was their way of saying he thought he wouldn't survive but he still wanted to comfort his child? A lie, but a noble one. It would explain why they'd set the wink up as a sign he's lying and then have him use it there. It's also a good empathy moment, as it points out that lying isn't always about scamming people. Sometimes we lie to comfort people, or ourselves. Because the truth is heartbreaking. (I dunno!)
The first time I watched "The Visitor" I was pissed at Martin After watching this video a huge gaping hole suddenly opened up in my heart I want Martin, MInerva and Finn to meet again... ...or a whole season about them
@@MrGamer-149 she not die basically she become a virtual data and make robot that look like her to take care the people and help them (sor 4 my bad english)
maybe. in the sequel series distant lands, they're going to space, where martin is. and now that minerva is with Finn, they might have some kind of meet up. slim chance, but not impossible
I am Error in the last episode of season 6 when finn was in the space floating and his father came to him on a moth, then some weird stuff and he became like that after he went with the catalus comet, left the existence or something
It makes sense actually. He made a lot of mistakes and saw that as his new start in life. He thought maybe if he went with the comet he would maybe have a new and happier life.
Man, it was so easy for me to write off Martin's dialogue in The Visitor. I was happy that he was bonding a little with Finn, but this context gives the episode a whole new spin. Martin's actually one of my favourite characters and it was fun to see you dissect this scene piece by piece. I hope this isn't the last we've seen of him.
did y'all even watch the video i keep seeing people saying the same thing about how "oh martin is just suffering from brain damage" like literally the first few minutes into this vid the dude explains how that just makes martin's character feel cheaper and less impactful like, he's right. amnesia tropes are lame and bad
I always thought the reason Martin went insane was because of the grief of losing his only son. He tried looking for him but due to the explosion he lost a good portion of his memories. So when he finally found his son he couldn't believe it at first, but when he did and realized what he did he just found he couldn't live with what he did. So he bailed.
To me the wink he gave baby Finn wasn't meant to be taken as "he planned to come back" but that he actually believed that he was going to die protecting him. it was meant to make Finn feel safe when really he doubted he would be able to return to him. I mean if you think about it this makes more sense, they have shown to us multiple times that he winks when he is lying and in this situation, he was going against an essentially unbeatable monster. In his mind, he wasn't planning on coming back, he was going to die saving his son. on the note of the brain damage being a cop out, I have to go with Occam's razor. Although the solution you came to was interesting and likely did have bits of truth in it, it feels like a stretch meant only to make the character a bit more interesting but I see nothing wrong with this, I just don't fully agree. For me, I believe Martin did get brain damage which likely messed with his memories. This is why he can barely remember Finn or his mom. His lack of memories of his son results in him essentially treating him like he would treat anyone else he was conning. I also think as he sees Finn the more he starts to remember. which it seems like something he didn't want. This could be due to the feeling of regret he may feel about what happened or the fact that at that point in his life he had decided to let go of his old life.
Animated Awesome Yeah, I agree with your theory on the wink, I do feel that makes more sense. Also want to point out that Elk says he does agree that brain damage played a part in Martin's behaviour, he just doesn't wish for it to be the main reason.
i would agree with you on the wink thing but the only problem is martin himself said that it was true that he planned to come back for finn. out of all the things martin has said i do believe that was the one truth he still had in him. so i'm with elk here and believe the wink basically turned into a thing he does when he's lying because of an unfulfilled promise he made that started eating away at him for years.
He did use the Wink on Kara/Susan to try and get her to not beat him up to detain him. It seems to be a way for Martin to try and befriend someone to get them to trust him. I also found it interesting that Fern uses the Wink once.
I think Martin's wink is more of an insincerity act. When he told Finn he'd be back for him, it could be argued that he knew he'd make a sacrifice and might actually not return to Finn. So his wink could be more of a reassuring, confident lie.
“Unlike the fictitious fish squid and seaweed- *BEWEBEWBEWBE* “ Edit: I should put a time stamp so here 7:50 And if you just want the BEWBEWBEWBE then here ya go 7:52
Yeah, the abandonment issues Finn has are all tied up with his ocean phobia. Like when he FREAKS on the jiggler momma rejecting her young. The abandonment issues and ocean fears come from the same inciting incident. Which is why they are both such strong traits in Finn. They just manifest differently.
I believe even in the past when Martin winked at Fin, he was lying. Martin ran up to the guardian believing that he was going to die, thus starting the pattern. What do you say to that?
Yeah, especially considering all humans were conditioned to believe that if you go against the Guardian, you die. He definitely thought he was going to die.
1:31 THANK YOU. Drives me crazy when people just chalk it all up to him getting a concussion, that feels so much more cheep than the idea that it was regression.
@@ecthelionalfa when Finn shared his worst nightmare with Fern, there was the same monster (who looks like Martin) that Finn transformed into in the episode "don't look".
How do you think Finn got his animal hat because he did not have it when he was on the raft in Min and Marty but in Memories of Boom Boom Mountain in the flash back he had an animal hat when Joshua and Margaret found him?
If I remember correctly, Finn was stranded with a bear doll. Perhaps he made the hat out of the doll? Though, that explanation doesn't make complete sense, because how would he know how to make an animal hat, much less know that they even existed. Finn doesn't remember anything from when he was an infant, so how would the idea come into his head to even MAKE an animal hat? Still, that's the only explanation I can think of.
It makes me so sad to think that although he was somewhat of a con man, he really did love Minerva and Finn. I wonder how Minerva would react if Finn told her what became of her husband
I like to think when Martin uses his left eye to wink, it’s his subconscious way of having good intentions behind what he says, and when he winks with his right eye he’s planning something bad. When he says “I’ll come back for ya,” or “Family is what’s important,” he really means those things, but his actions always fail to live up with them, and therefore, he uses his left eye to wink. He only uses his right eye when he’s outright lying to Finn
The thing is, the inclusion of the fish and squid in the improvised memory MAY be a part of Martin's experience surviving the ocean after hurting the guardian, but we have no way of knowing.
Crack Theory: Martin loss his memory, but after a time spent with pirates, becoming a douchebag and living a rowdy life, something began triggering his memories. Guilty due to the differences between his new life and his past life, he, like his son, mentally began blocking off the past. Over time, his mind began blurring the past and the present, especially after being reunited with Finn, which started making it harder and harder to repress the past. Whether he likes it or not, the old Martin is slowly seeping through, and the pirate dirtbag can't completely remain a dirtbag. And just like that, we get both scenarios forming a seamless and sad reality.
The wink represents when he's lying but doesn't want to be it always has. He wished he could come back to Finn but in reality he knew he'd never beat the guardian AND survive. He really beat the odds there.
When you think about it, Martin *probably* tried to hide his painful memories and past the SAME WAY Finn does with putting his trauma in “the vault”, and it makes me question if the way Finn deals with his emotions is inherited from Martin
Martin did tell Minerva that if he wanted to con her he would make her feel bad for him and that's 100% how their relationship started, but I think Martin really did end up loving Minerva. After he was lost in the sea with Finn on the raft I think since he knew he could never go back he just tried to convince himself it actually was just a long con, so the loss wouldn't hurt as much. He is already a very charismatic and conniving guy, so he would probably use his own tricks on himself to numb the pain. After doing this for 16 years it fucked him up enough that he lost basically all parental instincts and any trace of his former self
at 11:11 i don't think he was lying, both shown lies, he used the opposite eye then in the past, but at 11:11 he used the same eye to wink, as when he said he was coming back for finn
Every time I watch the scene where they're in the sea in their way to encounter the giant I beg for things to go well, and my heart breaks every time I see Martin failing at protecting Finn.
Damn, if I don't year for an AU where Martin somehow managed to reunite with Finn when they were both younger, when he hadn't had a chance to get so jaded, so lost from his own past and morals...
Martin's defense mechanism reminds me of Finn's defense mechanism when he sees something too intense that he doesn't wanna think about (referring to the Halloween special with the Shoko ghost and the Worm King episode). Like father, like son.
I didn't see the wink to baby Finn as a promise to keep, I saw it more as a lie of "I'm sacrificing my life for you, but telling you we'll both survive to comfort you right now", and didn't search for him because he honestly believed that Finn's a good kid with the genes of his mom, so no matter what raised him, it'd be better than his lowly swindler of a father...
You know what makes me tear up more than the sad nature of the episode? The background music used for this video. The instrumentals for the ending theme and I remember you, as well as the sad Simon's tale music. All of these songs are so beautiful and filled with nostalgia that I cry just hearing them. Thank you for putting all of this work into your videos. I love seeing all of your deep analysis because I definitely don't have the energy to scan the beautiful background details. Thank you for giving us all of this perfectly-edited content, as you make me smile every time I click on one of your videos.
Amazing video, as alway. And by the way, Martin is suppressing memories that are too painful for him to deal with? Gee, it's almost as if he has a VAULT! He has a vault, and Finn inherited the habit of repressing memories from his father! I was really hoping you were going to use the v-word, Elkie. Also, I think your point about his wink is somewhat off. It was always a con-man wink: when we first see it in Islands he uses it to try and convince Kara/Susan that he's harmless, or in his own words, "What, you didn't think that was cute?!" It's telling that the King of Ooo does the very same thing, sometimes even keeping one eye closed at length. I think when Martin winked at baby Finn on the raft, it was more that he was redeeming the con-man wink. As a con-man, the wink was an affectation to make people trust him more. When Martin promised that he would come back for Finn, he was being completely sincere, and how best to make people believe it? The wink! It's like that one moment was the peak of his redemption: he turned the con-man wink, something that was dishonest, into a heartfelt expression of truth. But sixteen years later, he's a con-man again. Tragic.
Maybe Martin's initial wink to Baby Finn was still to symbolize a lie, but not one of hardship, but one of mercy. Not wanting to worry his child in a situation he didn't think he'd be able to come back from.
So, Finn's vault has a hereditary link. If I thought something from my past was the reason my son died (which Martin had to have believed), I would never be able to face his father. And the only way I could live with myself would be to shove everything away, past and all, and never let anything close to me again. I recognized the line about burning bridges and moving forward because I'd said it before. I absolutely get Martin. This show is so freaking great at being real.
For me I see Martin’s character change is after he got amnesia at first he could remember nothing but he slowly started to remember but it was too late and the pirates had driven way out far in the sea and he didn’t know how to get back so with all the guilt he decided to block it all out and start a new life and like he said burn bridges.
I think the same thing, even when he started remembering he just saw the worst of himself and never the good he did. Leading him to tuck it all away in his vault so he could never review it and see the actual good he did
Here's a thought maybe Martin was lying to baby Finn when he said he was coming back . like he wanted too but he was prepared to die as he fought / distracted the robot just so Finn would be safe. And he just winks when he lies but it did seem really sincere ( heart breaking really )
Oddly enough, I would actually like to see characters who's personality shift CAN be traced back to brain damage. I disagree that it is a 'cheap' tactic. Instead, I see it as a device that makes people deeply uncomfortable since it tugs at our very notion of how much control we have over our own mind. We like to think that changes have emotional reasons, that events draw someone into a darker spot and thus people can be redeemed though equality 'just think about it' type methods. But when we talk about change through injury, outside 'they became disabled and their issues festered', people really seem to dislike the idea of something so mechanical having such a massive impact on who we are, to the point we try to erase it from real events and try to craft complicated (if relatable) narratives about why someone changed. So in a way, I see it the other way around, with the purely ethereal soul-flavored storytelling to, if not be 'cheap', at least be a bit cowardly, with storytelling involving personality shift from brain damage being a body horror theme that writers (and audiences) are afraid to touch.
neeneko I do agree that brain damage is something that can be interesting and have serious depth in stories, most people have a problem with its use to explain big narrative questions because often times it can feel lazy rather than intriguing. Especially when you set something up to ultimately be explained as brain damage it can feel somewhat disappointing due to the fact you can use it to answer almost anything. I think of you want to tell a story about how we truly don't have control of our brains, I think you need to set it up differently. I think AT does this well with the Ice King. Most people believed the Ice King was just a crazy guy, so when they introduced the concept of him losing his mind nobody felt disappointed or cheated.
I think if it is done too much or done badly you have a point, but I think people are too quick to jump to dismiss its use at all. As for the ice king, while there are similarities, that is a fairly different and much more common beast. Ice King is more an example of possession, a mind on mind, with 'simon' still being in there and his will being supplanted, but 'he' is still 'he'. What makes brain injury or other similar devices so unsettling is rather than being 'soul vs soul', it represents an actual change in who they are and highlights how much of our own personality is derived from physical things.
The problem is that that theory is a lot like the "WHAT IF THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS IN A COMA THE ENTIRE TIME" theories. Like, ok, maybe that's a possibility, but it can be applied to literally every and any story written out there. Not all theories have to be long and complicated, but not all of them have to be lazy, either. And Adventure Time does not shy away from body horror. I mean, remember seeing Susan's bloodied corpse in the hospital(at least it looked like that at the time)? Also remember the mechanical enhancements being implanted into the residents of the Islands? Something like a personality change due to a head injury is nothing compared to that.
People’s personalities and behaviors have changed dramatically as result from brain damage many times. Its heavily documented. Id google it. Its not a bad plot device when used right. Adventure Time did a good job of it.
I had an idea that he did sustain brain damage, but after losing Finn, repressed the trauma for so long he has no idea what he kept hidden away from himself, blocking any memory of being a father so he still thought he was a conman like he used to be, so he genuinely has no recollection of who Finn is. So I see them bonding as Martin finally letting his time as a father resurface
Renz Escobedo It's pretty obvious it was influenced by the weird octopus-like creature that looks like it's controlling sword Finn. Also, we only have until season 9, sorry to inform you.
It’s a shame that Finn and Minerva will never know what actually happened. From Minerva’s perspective, her partner abandoned her and took her son with him for no reason whatsoever. From Finn’s perspective, his father betrayed his mother and put his life in serious danger. The only one who knew what happened was Martin. But he didn’t want to mend any bridges that he burned and just stuck to the only thing he was good at before he met Minerva: being a con artist.
That's the tragedy of Martin Mertens. Unfortunately
Yeah rip
Maybe Finn can ask Prismo to show him what happened that night, since they are friends
@@AliKandirr oh my glob how did I not think about that
@@AliKandirr That would’ve been cool. At least Finn would’ve realized that Martin at one point was a genuine good dude.
ohhhh that's why Finn is scared of the ocean
It's all coming together
@@jayyy3820 It's adventure time
I think it's a phobia
@@Hunter-bc2yi And a majority of phobias mostly come from experiences.
@@andioop561 not really but okay
Season 6: Martin is an asshole
Season 8: Oh.
haha yeah.
meddiman yeah definitely still a jerk but I respect him more after Islands ... I do wonder if he was originally just using Finn's mum
Season 9*
Miguel Mif
Islands was in Season 8
you have my vote
When Young Martin winked at baby fin, he wasn't lying in the moment as he confirmed, but it *became* a lie when he couldn't uphold his promise. Thus, he now winks whenever he lies in an effort to hide that one broken promise that decimated his soul.
It didn't become a lie, it became a broken promise. One is dishonesty, one is failure.
I think it was a lie. His wink has always been a gesture of lying. He winks before he told finn he is coming back to get him because Martin didn't think he could beat the guardian. It will be his last battle and so he winks and told baby finn he is coming back
Ohh that’s such a sad way to think about it!
👍i like it
800th like
@@AngryNerdBird but you could argue that Martin saw it as a lie, which brought him guilt just as the vid did
"You're ok doc"
"Your mom was. . .ok, i guess"
Dammmmmmm
Ooooooh
Oh my god
yaasssss
Old martin uses the right wink to tell lies
Young martin uses the left wink to a truth which the old martin used once when he said “family is important
Now that you mention it, he winks the left side as he's telling the truth but he lies if he's winking at the right side.
@@crystallation4249 thats what they just said
"fin i'll be back for you"
It hurtsss
Ivan James Mangila
The one lie he ever told that was meant to be a truth.
Whoa, the pirates that saved Martin turn out to be Tree Trunk's underlings when she was a pirate queen.
It could be before she was the pirate queen or he could have been there but they never showed him in the episode
Woaaaaaaaah
@bacon froyo theyre exactly the same guys. Look back at the episode and you'll see the blue guy besides tree trunks
@bacon froyo it's not a theory
I noticed that, as well.
When you realise neither Finn nor Minerva will ever know the true story...
Thats the story of Men....
@@wolfgangbloodymeatsack1687 yo chill
@@Xfvanity 😂 to loud?
kinda sad
@@wolfgangbloodymeatsack1687 shut up, how dumb do you sound? That’s like him explaining a woman who manipulates and deceive men and traps a man into child support, and said “that’s the story of women” then it wouldn’t seem right to say that..don’t lower your competence to the level of a stereotypical Demeanor.
“I meant to come back for ya but... I didn’t! That’s true...” the first time we see an ounce of humanity in Martin he feels guilty for not going back but honestly who would even expect their child to be alive after that much time. Still a bad person but an excellent character and arc
Yeah I never considered the fact that Martin might not actually have amnesia but that line is probably the most convincing for me. Like if you believe that he does have amnesia, it is was less important than if he is genuinely just a really flawed man who tried his best, failed, and then fully embraced his own corruption. I think the episode where he takes care of the koala baby because it reminds him of Finn shows that he actually does care about him, even though he of course double crosses him. But I think a lot of it is him self destructing and putting things in “the vault” because they’re too painful
@@amandaking9527 both of these make a lot of sense
What I prefer to believe is that Martin tried to look for Finn, he actually tried maybe for years before one day, he just gave him. Assumed Finn was dead at the bottom of the sea. In the end, he never "came back for ya", but not because he did try. Even then, feeling like a failure esp after trying it then tore him apart.
The character of Martin hit me pretty hard due to how my dad changed after the first of his concussions. This whole story resonated with me on a level i cant verbally describe.
How is he now?
yeah I feel you, my dad had a stroke when I was a kid and _changed._ It hurts dude
@@a-bird-lover :c am sorry
I miss my Dad, he died of COVID
@@dogmadude1399 I am sorry to hear that and I hope you are doing better
To be honest, before islands I didn't think Martin was Finn's real dad
Faker same
Faker Yeah me too, It looked so improbable, and In the episodes he appeared he was always trying to use Finn trust in his own benefits
Me too
Same...
Sounds like none of you had daddy issues o.o I was 💯 sure it was Martin lol
left wink = true
right wink = lie
Sayupan,both wink=blink
What if Mike Wazowski read this?
Damn Smile he will blink half of his eye
That’s a good way to look at it, but I think you need to swap it around. Left is lie and right it truth.
Lisa Barnes
No, it's HIS left if true. Our right.
I love that as different as Finn is from his father, he actually has a very similar method of dealing with stuff he can't handle in what he calls his vault.
And we see Finn have reeaally similar problems with guilt too, where he blames himself for events he really doesn't have much control over.
Also, him abandoning NEPTR and kinda not caring about it mirrors Martin's behaviour
i also think one of the similarities between martin and finn is the way they treat their 'kids', martin with finn, and finn with neptr
Its like with the hermit eyes, except Finn doesn't accept his preconceived notions of people and wants to think differently, compared to Martin, who just accepts who he is because he can't go back mentally
Wish finn had the con artist moves and face manipulation and whatever Martin has
Also wish finn had a giant falcon mech that turns into a cool red car and falcon bike
@@ThiccFurryBoi34 but I think he does and we can see it when he tried to get the candy kids to go straight. The kids told him that he was just like them.
5:33
When fins mom was pregnant she was watering a banana plant and when fin was born the banana plant was grown
Heh
There are so many easter eggs in this show istg
I think that was supposed to show how long it’s been with Finns development
And their house looked like a boat
It's a mixture of brain damage and trauma. Massive unending PTSD. He knows Minerva is still there, but he never goes back to her. He can't bare to face her. Even knowing Finn is alive and well, his brain can't process it, he can't ever go back to that moment in his memories.
Well said
Yeah, I agree it is twofold. Probably forgetting Minerva and Finn made him forget his growth and change of heart during that one or two years. Probably remembering stuff was uncomfortable, painful and distressing. Not necessarily because of PTSD only, but because his blurry memories were of someone capable of care and heroism, totally different to his own self-image (built around the con-artist he used to be and probably the pirate he learned to be). It was the concussion what allowed him to resume his self-centred life of deceit, but it was avoidance (for any reason) which ultimately made him decide to "burn bridges" instead of working out his past. He decided to take the memory loss as a new blank slate.
@@parratahe had half forgotten fragments of memories of the person he could have been and a life that would be denied to him. If we assume he took awhile to remember anything then he may have decided Finn was dead and he couldn't return without him, or just to much time had passed.
By the time he encountered Finn again, he definitely would have thought to much time had passed. He'd given up on being anything but the way he is and Finn had a life and home. There truly was no going back.
Damn
"Is everything you say a lie?"
No, no."
"Well, is there any way I can tell the difference?"
"Haha, I hope not."
Father of the year.
I dont think Martin wants to know the truth ether
Hardly
Martin's mental barrier you were talking about could be akin to Finn's vault
Kyle Walters not really considering that Finn literally can't recall the thing he's afraid of even though he knows he's doing it.
while good old dad is trying to mental block it, he still recalls the past and is hurt by it.
Dearis Brock
I don't think he recalls *everything* tho.
Finn's Vault is likely a thing he inherited from being a Catalyst Comet, given how he can recall his past lives and what not. What Martin has is a fairly normal thingamajig.
Jordan DeHart I don't know if I'd say the vault is inheritance from the comet. probably just Finn really good at mental blocking or something stronger considering, while Martin still feels pain when thinking about the past even though he doesnt remember everything
I would agree - if is is too painful or terrifying to deal with, it goes "in the vault" - nice catch
I've said this and I'll say it again. Martin was a conman, but Minerva and the birth of Finn changed him. When suddenly his life turned upside down to a point beyond repair (losing his baby son), he went back to the man he was. A lowlife conman with no regards of anybody but himself.
Ztrikes He's going back to what's safe and what he knows. You can tell, even in the past, family life was an oddity for him, it wasn't the norm. When he meets Finn it's like a huge risk. Maybe he feels like he'd screw up both their lives. What could a con man add to a heros life is probably what he thinks.
Ztrikes
True.
That would explain why he's so reluctant to remember that part of himself when he was changed
Ztrikes and who can blame him especially in a world like that must be hard to get around when you don't have the a magical dog and friendly relationship with legitly every other kingdom in the land
Kowalski, get me an big chungus a sprite cranberry with a skirt and a dab like wiskalifa because that's how mafia works and karen took the kids with the lemon car so do you know da wae to a free sha vaka do.
There, I made long sentence starting with the profile pic
" You burn enough bridges, the only direction to move is foward "
This reminds me of how Finn uses his 'vault' to store away disturbing memories so he doesn't think of them again. It seriously seems like Martin does the same thing with his past, which kinda gives it a deeper meaning too when Finn (and Fern) finally face the vault. It draws an interesting parallel between father and son, even if the writers didn't intend it
the shark was the lady the loan shark
the tiger was the tiger
the squid was the grabby henchmen
martins story was true but was all over the place and downplayed this man remembers but he is ashamed
escapism at its finest
wow. Nice.
Which story do you prefer?
This reminds me of the end of Life of Pi
All the trauma and overthinking things probably made him rationalize everything like that over the years of wandering alone
What about the seaweed
These sees weeds
*LIBEIBEIBELIBY*
Why cant it be a mix of amnesia and him becoming a jerk after assuming his child was lost and that he could never return home? They aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.
Exactly
Very true
That’s real life too.
I think it's because it's more interesting than saying oh it's amnesia
@@DieArtDamon92 hmmm
It might be cheap story telling but it's also factual. Brain injuries can completely change a person's personality
Alison Marie Mick true, but most of the time the brain destroys some parts of what was there
Lol
Sure, anyone would agree that brain injuries are entirely believable. Using this to explain the character's shift in personality only undermines anything meaningful in the story.
My oldest friend hit his head on a pole and got a concussion, then when he was back, he was different
There was the story of Phineas P. Gage, iron rod went through his head, lived the rest of his life like any human, only he changed beyond the incident, almost like a whole different person beyond that experience. Real story, was pretty big for psychology.
The idea that Martin's change of personality from being a protective father to a scumbag was due to brain damage is not "cheap". It is in tune with the theme in Adventure Time where the line between hero and villain is very fine. We saw that in Simon/Ice King, The Lich/Sweetpea, etc.. Adventure Time is careful in not lumping heroes and villains in nice black and white categories. It tries to tell the audience that the characters could easily turn - and that helps us not to be so judgemental.
"Marceline, something weird can just be something familiar viewed from a different angle. And that's not scary, right?"
I definitely get behind all this
But there's a difference between Martin instantly getting amnesia, and Simon slowly losing his mind while taking care of a little and knowing he can't always be there for her. As for Sweetpea, he's practically a whole different character than the Litch, yes Ice King is different than Simon but there was a transitional period, and most of the tragedy is the belief he's still there somewhere. The Litch was litteraly pure evil personafied, there was no redemption
I honestly got the impression that the head injury *and* the crimes he did to get to the Citadel was the reason he changed through the years.
@@drcheesenut896 the litch was trapped in a meat cage
I always thought it was a shame Fern never got to meet Minerva. On the other hand, it's probably a good thing he never got to meet Martin.
If only he didn’t die in come along with me
He met martin when he was finn
@@norminpontu9905 yea but he doesn't remember some of finn's memories. (Like when he said that he vaguely remembers/knows PB but doesn't remember specific details about her.)
Ok thats a heavy one
@@xjessie_drawsx wasn’t Fern/Sword Finn a version of Finn from the same alternate timeline as the Jake who was transformed into the old man dreaming Prismo back to life?
I just realized that Adventure Time has BUTTLOADS of tragic backstories. The mushroom war, Simon, Martin, and Evergreen were among the biggest.
Thats whi i stiil love that show everything has a backstory and there is a lot of lore within the series
NO GUNTHER. NO, GUNTHER NO. NO. GUNTHER NO, NO GUNTHER NO.
Life is tragedy, that's what makes success and happiness possible.
10:27 this shot with the shadowing makes me see two faces, one happy but nervous, the other sad but content with his decision.
Golden Queen nice catch!!
Fuck, you're right! Damn... I used to hate Martin but now I just feel sad for him.
Oh how true!
This is too sad. People always dismiss Martin as just being a bad guy but it is way more than that. I wonder if being an omnipotent comet has changed him. Really good video.
RetroMonkeySage
people tend to do that to any mean character
RetroMonkeySage would like for him at have a mini arc at least and it better be something to like Martin see Minerva again one last time.
I wonder if he was the guy that took fern in the latest episode.....I see similarities 0.0
+The Quacker now, you know it's not
I would love if he comes back in the end as the comet.
Martins arc is really thought provoking it essentially ends in his suicide but it’s because he’s offered a chance to be reborn in a new more powerful form disconnected from his past completely.
Correct. The conclusion of the chapter was Finn choosing life, appreciating the beauty of its ups and downs, while Martin takes the opposite path.
Lowkey think Martin is a milder version of Ice King but still a parallel. He has some recollection, but it’s all almost gone. Much like Ice King don’t remember saving Marcie, Martin doesn’t remember saving Finn, whom he really loved.
I agree and seeing Finn again brought back painful memories so he chose to ignore them and burn bridges
I wonder how finn would react if he knew the full story and the sacrifices his father made and how hard it must have been to try and tell that story even though it might not be completly true yes brain damage might messed up his brain a bit but still this must of taken alot to tell this story specially sense he feels so bad about it
Alison Oak use some grammar Jesus Christ
I'd imagine it's like how he sees ice king as Simon
Finn could potentially learn the truth if he’s able to access the Guardians memory drives or black box. I don’t think the one time where the Guardian was defeated would be something that would go unrecorded.
I guess without his Son and Wife, he had nothing two keep his good nature intact. Even when he met Finn he probably believed there was no way his "real son" could've survived such an ordeal. Not to mention the fact he was too far gone(as a good person) by the time Finn freed him. I don't excuse his actions, but at least now we can understand them.
Glob knows what kind of what he's been up to those intervening years!
To
I think when Martin came to he thought his son was dead.
He knows at that point he can never go back to the islands. Minerva will never forgive him for losing Finn and may very well kill him. At that point, he can only move forward to the next con.
All the old jerks have sad back stories
Dey Paid Yeh, ice king and Martin
Epic Combo and magic man is kinda old
Justin Aquino is he imortal?
Mister Fahrenheit ^
Marty, Steven Universe
As someone who uses escapism and memory suppression to deal with losing access to their sons, I can say that it gets hard to remember what the truth was.. You don't want to forget everything, because even the bad times were part of something you treasure, but it's so depressing - to the point that you cannot function at the most basic level - to dwell on the past, so you just label yourself as the bad guy because you're not there, and try to move on by keeping yourself constantly distracted with anything you can do to keep it off your mind; eventually it hurts just as much that you can't accurately recall the past, so you have a new reason to try not to.
my heart is with you
I really hope you get the chance to see your boys again
Experienced and feel this one.
My dad is the same way, but he didn’t lose access to us, i cut him off because unlike my mom, I wasn’t going to tolerate his belittling and patronizing behavior when things weren’t exactly like how he wanted it. And he resents me for it, because we’re stubborn in opposite directions.
which is why this method doesn't work is extremely harmful to oneself in the long run
Not to mention that by labelling ones self the irredeemable bad guy , you have just found an excellent excuse to absolve yourself of any blame and give up on any shreds of responsibility you had left. Its essentially a rationalisation of giving up. Its not that you are no longer there, you aren't even trying to be there in any way shape or form, and thus become the bad guy. Its a "if i cant have it all how i want no one gets anything and i absolve myself of any responsibility". Its the logic of the "well my spouse is trying to keep my kids away from me. Well what are you doing about it? Oh nothing." . But its not a real excuse, and you are just harming everyone
In one episode fin takes over as the candykingdom doctor while Dr. Princess takes a vacation and fin says being a doctor "feels right"
That might link to his mom, Minerva, being a doctor on the islands.
Like mother, like son
Give me your brain right now
Probably one of those plot points that were never meant to go anywhere and were forgotten by the writers but miraculously lined up just fine with future reveals .
@@boredguy6970 Doubt it because that episode was 5 episodes before Islands started
@@boredguy6970 Wasn’t that like a season 1-2 episode
Remember when Martin got a "new mode" from the Catalyst Comet? The Comet offers Finn a "higher mode of existence" and he declines, I think the higher mode is only offered to Finn because he's lived so many mortal lived already. Then Martin chimes in saying "I want a new mode" and him and the comet disappear. In the opening scene of the Gum War we see a purple and orange butterfly (purple like the comet, orange like Martins tanned skin/hair/orangish shirt?) Finn says "there it is again" off screen, which I think is actually a subtle nod to the butterfly. I think Martin is that butterfly, he wanted a new mode but in order for him to reach the level Finn is at he has to start low and eventually that butterfly becomes Shermy (orange reddish shirt, more of a renegade than a hero) who then finds the Finn Sword. "I always planned on coming back for you."
Really enjoyed the video, Martin is one of my favourite characters and I don't think he gets enough credit. Let me know what you think of my theory!
My new favorite fan Theory!!!
I totally forgot that happened
omg, that's brilliant
Shermy is definately not like Martin, hes more like a young finn
@@kritikill7779 not as if finn closely resembles his past lives. It's a reincarnation thing
I love how in season 6 Martin's story sounded so stupid but in Season 8 seeing the S6 scene it makes perfect sense... genius
Perigon Remember these are the same guys who created and expanded on Simon
so, technically, Martin was sort of telling the truth?
Kai Drysdale yeah what he said adds up but makes zero sense out of context... I think it's very clever how the writers did it
I think the wink had always been a lie. He knew he wasn't coming back. Or he didn't believe he was going to live after the fight.
+alex sullivan
If he WAS lying I think the most plausible thing is him expecting not to live through the fight.
Ur picture makes it oddly specific 🤣
He was trying.
I don't think the brain damage theory is cheap. Seems to be rather in line with adventure times theme, that sometimes you have no control over the person you end up becoming. Simon never chose to become the iceking, Magic man became mad through great loss and returned to good when his madness was transferred from him and the Lich and Golb never made the conscious choice to be bad, as destruction is simply their nature. Frankly, this is the greatest tragedy, being transformed into a scoundrel by your most selfless and heroic act, unable to even remember the good man you once were.
man you're so right but it hurts
the only part of this I'd disagree with is "Simon never chose to become the iceking"
the first time he put the crown on it took him by surprise, but every time he put it on after that was a knowing choice, he noticed and acknowledged the effects that using the crown had on him but chose to keep on using it to protect Marceline. he made a sacrifice to become the Ice King for the good of someone else.
It is cheap because its adventure time. People who say its cheap are picking up on the incredible narrative dissonance it would require. Its akin to fin dying because he fell down the stairs, or having a whole episode where finn has to deal with tetanus from a minor scrape. Its jarring, it violates the rules of the world as much as legolas drawing a gun.
Look at the examples you gave. An immortal wizard driven insane and loosing himself by his crown. A chaotic sorcerer thats mad as long as he has magic, otherwise hes fine. Otherworldly forces of absolute evil. Normal human being hit a little too hard in the head. You see the incongruence here? Thats what people pick up on
@@DimT670it's adventure time. We literally have an episode where Jake, the magic multidimensional alien talking dog gets amnesia and becomes crazy from having been hit hard on the head
Why's a normal human guy being hit hard on the head and getting the same condition more unbelievable?
I feel like Martin... intentionally left out Finn being born on an island. He was scared that the guardian was still there, and that it would finish the job.
Interesting thought but I am not sure that was conscious enough about everything to be the reason for it. More likely he was traumatized and wanted to forget everything so he isn't trying to remember much at all. But I would love to believe that even as his hallowed self he tried to pull his son from danger
Hot breadsticks is what we bake, we don't bake pie and we don't bake cake!
Funny to think that Finn survived off of hot breadsticks with no water for who knows how long.
Chris J man I wish I could have one of those hot breadsticks thing
maybe they were moisty after been cook
@@moondrahh *m o i s t y*
Maybe they weren't really bread sticks but some sorta all in one food that vaguely resembles bread sticks.
This is a fucking cartoon.
i still wanna know what martin's cosmic crime was
tolin
It would be really cool to see an episodes on Martin's past and how he had to con so many people in space just to get by, that probably what he's crime was coning the wrong space man and seriously fucking himself over that's probably why he has burnt so many bridges, using everybody to give himself an advantage
Yeah. All the other criminals had the capability to enslave entire civilizations while he is just some random guy
He ran from his son, if he had stuck with him yes they both most likely would have died. But when he ran to sacrifice himself he and Finn's cosmic link was severed and Finn went on to get into tons of trouble and it was layed on Martin's shoulders because he even admitted that he planned to come back but he didn't and didn't help Finn with his troubles
He made too many winks and people got scared
@@kian_5733 or abandoned Finn when he could've went after him because he confirmed he remembered
I love the connection with Finn's hat and his teddy bear too.
The sentence “The only time non-sentient bananas were prominent was in the nightosphere, but back then they were demon poop” is NOT the kind of thing you hear about a regular cartoon hahaha
Oh! I was watching this and I just had the thought: what if Martin winking at Baby Finn before he left the raft was their way of saying he thought he wouldn't survive but he still wanted to comfort his child? A lie, but a noble one. It would explain why they'd set the wink up as a sign he's lying and then have him use it there. It's also a good empathy moment, as it points out that lying isn't always about scamming people. Sometimes we lie to comfort people, or ourselves. Because the truth is heartbreaking. (I dunno!)
The first time I watched "The Visitor" I was pissed at Martin
After watching this video a huge gaping hole suddenly opened up in my heart
I want Martin, MInerva and Finn to meet again...
...or a whole season about them
William Azazel Miseria well Minerva died and was cloned and Martin reseted his life basically.
@@MrGamer-149 she not die basically she become a virtual data and make robot that look like her to take care the people and help them (sor 4 my bad english)
Weeell at last they give to us a Finn and Minerva moment in the last episode.
maybe. in the sequel series distant lands, they're going to space, where martin is. and now that minerva is with Finn, they might have some kind of meet up. slim chance, but not impossible
Yan no Martin got teleported to have a new life so he doesn’t exist anymore in Ooo
I really want to see Martin again or at least to find out what happened to him after his interaction with the Guardian.
I hope they retcon the weird crap about him turning into a god or whatever. That was so dumb in season 6.
I am Error in the last episode of season 6 when finn was in the space floating and his father came to him on a moth, then some weird stuff and he became like that after he went with the catalus comet, left the existence or something
Wiser Ways he didn’t became a god he just restarted his dam life
It makes sense actually. He made a lot of mistakes and saw that as his new start in life. He thought maybe if he went with the comet he would maybe have a new and happier life.
Sorry man
Man, it was so easy for me to write off Martin's dialogue in The Visitor. I was happy that he was bonding a little with Finn, but this context gives the episode a whole new spin. Martin's actually one of my favourite characters and it was fun to see you dissect this scene piece by piece. I hope this isn't the last we've seen of him.
final scene in the last episode of season 8 will have you going WHAT???!!!
1:40 serious damage to certain parts of the brain can change your whole personality making a calm person short tempered
Yeah but its weaker writing
@@kyleway8513 not really, the man is there, however, it doesn't change the fact the event changed him for the worst.
There’s also the possibility that there could be shrapnel in Martins head, frankly he’s lucky to have survived that blast.
...I wonder if that can happen the other way, a short tempered person becomes calm
did y'all even watch the video
i keep seeing people saying the same thing about how "oh martin is just suffering from brain damage" like literally the first few minutes into this vid the dude explains how that just makes martin's character feel cheaper and less impactful
like, he's right. amnesia tropes are lame and bad
I always thought the reason Martin went insane was because of the grief of losing his only son. He tried looking for him but due to the explosion he lost a good portion of his memories. So when he finally found his son he couldn't believe it at first, but when he did and realized what he did he just found he couldn't live with what he did. So he bailed.
To me the wink he gave baby Finn wasn't meant to be taken as "he planned to come back" but that he actually believed that he was going to die protecting him. it was meant to make Finn feel safe when really he doubted he would be able to return to him. I mean if you think about it this makes more sense, they have shown to us multiple times that he winks when he is lying and in this situation, he was going against an essentially unbeatable monster. In his mind, he wasn't planning on coming back, he was going to die saving his son.
on the note of the brain damage being a cop out, I have to go with Occam's razor. Although the solution you came to was interesting and likely did have bits of truth in it, it feels like a stretch meant only to make the character a bit more interesting but I see nothing wrong with this, I just don't fully agree.
For me, I believe Martin did get brain damage which likely messed with his memories. This is why he can barely remember Finn or his mom. His lack of memories of his son results in him essentially treating him like he would treat anyone else he was conning. I also think as he sees Finn the more he starts to remember. which it seems like something he didn't want. This could be due to the feeling of regret he may feel about what happened or the fact that at that point in his life he had decided to let go of his old life.
Animated Awesome Yeah, I agree with your theory on the wink, I do feel that makes more sense.
Also want to point out that Elk says he does agree that brain damage played a part in Martin's behaviour, he just doesn't wish for it to be the main reason.
i would agree with you on the wink thing but the only problem is martin himself said that it was true that he planned to come back for finn. out of all the things martin has said i do believe that was the one truth he still had in him. so i'm with elk here and believe the wink basically turned into a thing he does when he's lying because of an unfulfilled promise he made that started eating away at him for years.
Sarah2Cold I think Martin did plan to come back but he knew that realistically he probably wouldn't be able to.
i think he did die after that brain damage accident. Martin became the other guy after the "Dad" Martin got injured
He did use the Wink on Kara/Susan to try and get her to not beat him up to detain him. It seems to be a way for Martin to try and befriend someone to get them to trust him. I also found it interesting that Fern uses the Wink once.
My question is: What did Martin do to get into the Citadel?
And how was billy involved
Yeah. How can Martin become a universal criminal?
@@duykhangtran4406 he killed the guardian remember so the citadel wardens captured him even tho he lost his mind
John Geo but the guardian wasn’t a cosmic entity and he didn’t even kill it.
@@turquoisecrow4513 i dunno thats what they said
I think Martin's wink is more of an insincerity act. When he told Finn he'd be back for him, it could be argued that he knew he'd make a sacrifice and might actually not return to Finn. So his wink could be more of a reassuring, confident lie.
“Unlike the fictitious fish squid and seaweed- *BEWEBEWBEWBE* “
Edit: I should put a time stamp so here 7:50
And if you just want the BEWBEWBEWBE then here ya go 7:52
YESSSSS
Let’s continue the chain
BEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEWBEW
Chain🔫🔫🔫🔫🪦
bewbewbewbew
Yeah, the abandonment issues Finn has are all tied up with his ocean phobia.
Like when he FREAKS on the jiggler momma rejecting her young. The abandonment issues and ocean fears come from the same inciting incident. Which is why they are both such strong traits in Finn. They just manifest differently.
"i dont like being abandoned! Im sensitive to it!"
To those concerned, yes, I am already working on reviewing the new episodes.
Yessssss.
Uncivilized Elk hi
Uncivilized Elk yess I'm hyped
Uncivilized Elk as long as you review ketchup I'm ok
Uncivilized Elk pleas wait for them to be on tv, I don't have the app
I believe even in the past when Martin winked at Fin, he was lying. Martin ran up to the guardian believing that he was going to die, thus starting the pattern. What do you say to that?
Saint HowL it's a way to say you're lying
I say his right eyebrow agrees with you and so do I.
Agreed!
Yeah, especially considering all humans were conditioned to believe that if you go against the Guardian, you die. He definitely thought he was going to die.
HOLY
1:31 THANK YOU. Drives me crazy when people just chalk it all up to him getting a concussion, that feels so much more cheep than the idea that it was regression.
I think the story just evolved.
They didnt even have the post-apocalyptic world idea in mind until the whole Frozen Salesmen episode.
My thoughts exactly. Not retconning, restructuring
I wish that Martin would've made an appearance in Come Long With Me.
He did **wink**
Well he technically makes a cameo in the last episode.
@@mohamedlamin2968 when?
@@ecthelionalfa when Finn shared his worst nightmare with Fern, there was the same monster (who looks like Martin) that Finn transformed into in the episode "don't look".
@@mohamedlamin2968 i see, im going to check out that
How do you think Finn got his animal hat because he did not have it when he was on the raft in Min and Marty but in Memories of Boom Boom Mountain in the flash back he had an animal hat when Joshua and Margaret found him?
If I remember correctly, Finn was stranded with a bear doll. Perhaps he made the hat out of the doll? Though, that explanation doesn't make complete sense, because how would he know how to make an animal hat, much less know that they even existed. Finn doesn't remember anything from when he was an infant, so how would the idea come into his head to even MAKE an animal hat? Still, that's the only explanation I can think of.
Cool I like it.
If I remember, finn is really smart so maybe when he was an infant he made an animal hat by "accident" that's my theory
Maybe he remembers himself having it back then.
isella onitnatsnoc I think that's what most likely happened.
It makes me so sad to think that although he was somewhat of a con man, he really did love Minerva and Finn. I wonder how Minerva would react if Finn told her what became of her husband
Guess that's the info only for finn and minerva
Maybe Minerva didnt know martin alive?
I was surprised when he showed her the memories non of Martin showed up
Okay but we gonna talk about how he got so THICC
Dad bod
12:00 Thic Suffication
I like to think when Martin uses his left eye to wink, it’s his subconscious way of having good intentions behind what he says, and when he winks with his right eye he’s planning something bad. When he says “I’ll come back for ya,” or “Family is what’s important,” he really means those things, but his actions always fail to live up with them, and therefore, he uses his left eye to wink. He only uses his right eye when he’s outright lying to Finn
The thing is, the inclusion of the fish and squid in the improvised memory MAY be a part of Martin's experience surviving the ocean after hurting the guardian, but we have no way of knowing.
Crack Theory:
Martin loss his memory, but after a time spent with pirates, becoming a douchebag and living a rowdy life, something began triggering his memories. Guilty due to the differences between his new life and his past life, he, like his son, mentally began blocking off the past. Over time, his mind began blurring the past and the present, especially after being reunited with Finn, which started making it harder and harder to repress the past.
Whether he likes it or not, the old Martin is slowly seeping through, and the pirate dirtbag can't completely remain a dirtbag. And just like that, we get both scenarios forming a seamless and sad reality.
The wink represents when he's lying but doesn't want to be it always has. He wished he could come back to Finn but in reality he knew he'd never beat the guardian AND survive. He really beat the odds there.
When you think about it, Martin *probably* tried to hide his painful memories and past the SAME WAY Finn does with putting his trauma in “the vault”, and it makes me question if the way Finn deals with his emotions is inherited from Martin
Martin did tell Minerva that if he wanted to con her he would make her feel bad for him and that's 100% how their relationship started, but I think Martin really did end up loving Minerva. After he was lost in the sea with Finn on the raft I think since he knew he could never go back he just tried to convince himself it actually was just a long con, so the loss wouldn't hurt as much. He is already a very charismatic and conniving guy, so he would probably use his own tricks on himself to numb the pain. After doing this for 16 years it fucked him up enough that he lost basically all parental instincts and any trace of his former self
at 11:11 i don't think he was lying, both shown lies, he used the opposite eye then in the past, but at 11:11 he used the same eye to wink, as when he said he was coming back for finn
Leostar Nice eye
The stuff with bananas may also be a reference to the banana "tree" the Mertens family used to have in their yard.
Leon Fontius Sorry, it's not really my cup of coffee. Plus, this really isn't the place to advertise it. It's not even related to Adventure Time.
Every time I watch the scene where they're in the sea in their way to encounter the giant I beg for things to go well, and my heart breaks every time I see Martin failing at protecting Finn.
But he didn't fail to protect Finn, He succeeded in saving Finns life, he failed to return to Finn.
Dude!
Your analysis, your insight, your delivery, and especially, your editing, 100%
When Martin said banana boat the family’s house looked like a upside down boat with a banana tree in front.
Did you notice he uses one eye left when he lies and his right when he cares
Damn, if I don't year for an AU where Martin somehow managed to reunite with Finn when they were both younger, when he hadn't had a chance to get so jaded, so lost from his own past and morals...
I'm on it.
*Winks*
Person302 I can't tell if you're being sincere or if you're lying with taht wink...
Martin's defense mechanism reminds me of Finn's defense mechanism when he sees something too intense that he doesn't wanna think about (referring to the Halloween special with the Shoko ghost and the Worm King episode).
Like father, like son.
9:50 "DONT LEAVE ME HERE. I'M SENSITIVE TO IT!" he is 100% affected by the isolation
I'm pretty sure he even said "I don't like being abandoned"
"if you burn enough bridges the only way to move is forward"
"you burn enough bridges the only way to move is forward"
later sets the entire drift on fire which is primarily made of pods and bridges
I didn't see the wink to baby Finn as a promise to keep, I saw it more as a lie of "I'm sacrificing my life for you, but telling you we'll both survive to comfort you right now", and didn't search for him because he honestly believed that Finn's a good kid with the genes of his mom, so no matter what raised him, it'd be better than his lowly swindler of a father...
8:25 guess “the vault” runs in the family
You know what makes me tear up more than the sad nature of the episode? The background music used for this video. The instrumentals for the ending theme and I remember you, as well as the sad Simon's tale music. All of these songs are so beautiful and filled with nostalgia that I cry just hearing them. Thank you for putting all of this work into your videos. I love seeing all of your deep analysis because I definitely don't have the energy to scan the beautiful background details. Thank you for giving us all of this perfectly-edited content, as you make me smile every time I click on one of your videos.
It's really a heartbreaking story:(
Amazing video, as alway. And by the way, Martin is suppressing memories that are too painful for him to deal with? Gee, it's almost as if he has a VAULT! He has a vault, and Finn inherited the habit of repressing memories from his father! I was really hoping you were going to use the v-word, Elkie.
Also, I think your point about his wink is somewhat off. It was always a con-man wink: when we first see it in Islands he uses it to try and convince Kara/Susan that he's harmless, or in his own words, "What, you didn't think that was cute?!" It's telling that the King of Ooo does the very same thing, sometimes even keeping one eye closed at length.
I think when Martin winked at baby Finn on the raft, it was more that he was redeeming the con-man wink. As a con-man, the wink was an affectation to make people trust him more. When Martin promised that he would come back for Finn, he was being completely sincere, and how best to make people believe it? The wink! It's like that one moment was the peak of his redemption: he turned the con-man wink, something that was dishonest, into a heartfelt expression of truth.
But sixteen years later, he's a con-man again. Tragic.
didnt martin already used the winks before meeting minerva/fathering finn? when he was being mischievous in the islands?
god so much to rewatch...
Maybe Martin's initial wink to Baby Finn was still to symbolize a lie, but not one of hardship, but one of mercy. Not wanting to worry his child in a situation he didn't think he'd be able to come back from.
So, Finn's vault has a hereditary link.
If I thought something from my past was the reason my son died (which Martin had to have believed), I would never be able to face his father. And the only way I could live with myself would be to shove everything away, past and all, and never let anything close to me again.
I recognized the line about burning bridges and moving forward because I'd said it before.
I absolutely get Martin.
This show is so freaking great at being real.
For me I see Martin’s character change is after he got amnesia at first he could remember nothing but he slowly started to remember but it was too late and the pirates had driven way out far in the sea and he didn’t know how to get back so with all the guilt he decided to block it all out and start a new life and like he said burn bridges.
I think the same thing, even when he started remembering he just saw the worst of himself and never the good he did. Leading him to tuck it all away in his vault so he could never review it and see the actual good he did
Winking with his left eye is when he lies. Winking with his right eye is when he tells the truth
other way around
Here's a thought maybe Martin was lying to baby Finn when he said he was coming back . like he wanted too but he was prepared to die as he fought / distracted the robot just so Finn would be safe. And he just winks when he lies but it did seem really sincere ( heart breaking really )
Oddly enough, I would actually like to see characters who's personality shift CAN be traced back to brain damage.
I disagree that it is a 'cheap' tactic. Instead, I see it as a device that makes people deeply uncomfortable since it tugs at our very notion of how much control we have over our own mind. We like to think that changes have emotional reasons, that events draw someone into a darker spot and thus people can be redeemed though equality 'just think about it' type methods.
But when we talk about change through injury, outside 'they became disabled and their issues festered', people really seem to dislike the idea of something so mechanical having such a massive impact on who we are, to the point we try to erase it from real events and try to craft complicated (if relatable) narratives about why someone changed.
So in a way, I see it the other way around, with the purely ethereal soul-flavored storytelling to, if not be 'cheap', at least be a bit cowardly, with storytelling involving personality shift from brain damage being a body horror theme that writers (and audiences) are afraid to touch.
neeneko I do agree that brain damage is something that can be interesting and have serious depth in stories, most people have a problem with its use to explain big narrative questions because often times it can feel lazy rather than intriguing. Especially when you set something up to ultimately be explained as brain damage it can feel somewhat disappointing due to the fact you can use it to answer almost anything. I think of you want to tell a story about how we truly don't have control of our brains, I think you need to set it up differently. I think AT does this well with the Ice King. Most people believed the Ice King was just a crazy guy, so when they introduced the concept of him losing his mind nobody felt disappointed or cheated.
neeneko i agree
Cinnamon Bun
I think if it is done too much or done badly you have a point, but I think people are too quick to jump to dismiss its use at all.
As for the ice king, while there are similarities, that is a fairly different and much more common beast. Ice King is more an example of possession, a mind on mind, with 'simon' still being in there and his will being supplanted, but 'he' is still 'he'. What makes brain injury or other similar devices so unsettling is rather than being 'soul vs soul', it represents an actual change in who they are and highlights how much of our own personality is derived from physical things.
The problem is that that theory is a lot like the "WHAT IF THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS IN A COMA THE ENTIRE TIME" theories. Like, ok, maybe that's a possibility, but it can be applied to literally every and any story written out there. Not all theories have to be long and complicated, but not all of them have to be lazy, either.
And Adventure Time does not shy away from body horror. I mean, remember seeing Susan's bloodied corpse in the hospital(at least it looked like that at the time)? Also remember the mechanical enhancements being implanted into the residents of the Islands? Something like a personality change due to a head injury is nothing compared to that.
People’s personalities and behaviors have changed dramatically as result from brain damage many times. Its heavily documented. Id google it. Its not a bad plot device when used right. Adventure Time did a good job of it.
I've always wondered what happened to Martin. In the finale, he's never mentioned or anything,
He went with the space butterfly and traveled the universe
@@ecthelionalfa Maybe he is still alive, since time works differently across space
@@jester0297 as far as i know he is alive, but traveling in space with the galactic moth god
@@ecthelionalfa yeah but i meant as in with shermy and beths time period, so far into the future
@@jester0297 oh that, yeah that's posible
I had an idea that he did sustain brain damage, but after losing Finn, repressed the trauma for so long he has no idea what he kept hidden away from himself, blocking any memory of being a father so he still thought he was a conman like he used to be, so he genuinely has no recollection of who Finn is. So I see them bonding as Martin finally letting his time as a father resurface
Uncivilized Elk or anyone else do you think we're going to see Minerva (Finn's mother) again?
Tom Bashford I bet she'll get at least mentioned or shown for a brief moment before the serie's end
Yeah I hope so.
hope so! The end is not that far away tho, and there is so much stuff
Tom Bashford I would expect to see her again before the end. Perhaps in the very end
That does seems likely.
Can't wait for you to review the new episodes. Whispers and Three Buckets got crazy!
Aqib Talib Still have so many questions why Fern would do that...cant wait for season 10.
Renz Escobedo bruh, when Finn said finality but the arm said fatality, I was just in utter disbelief with my mouth hanging open for like 5 minutes
Renz Escobedo It's pretty obvious it was influenced by the weird octopus-like creature that looks like it's controlling sword Finn.
Also, we only have until season 9, sorry to inform you.
Marshall Lee Steele yeah
I actually liked fern sad that he had to kick that bucket
My theory is that he didn’t remember until he met Finn again. Then slowly his memory came back and he felt too bad to reconnect and burned bridges
After BMO we can see Mr. M (almost definitely Martin) he has the earlier Martins appreciation for technology, though he appreciates it alot less.