My brother has fallen down this rabbit hole and honestly it’s gotten to a point where he tried to convince ME to become a submissive woman for men…I’m a minor and he knows Damm well what men have done to me. It goes so unbelievably deep that men like my brother are now destroying their relationships, like I don’t talk to him anymore due to how he treated me. It’s so upsetting and disgusting how the Manosphere acts like it will solve all their issues in reality it breaks down the only good things they have leaving them more lonely and bitter, sadly.
I'm sorry that what should be an important relationship has turned sour (for lack of a better term). I hope you have/can find space and dignity for yourself. And for your brother's sake, I hope he can turn the corner, do some personal work, and remembers the value of having you as a sister before he loses that chance forever.
I'm sorry you've experienced this. My brother and I are having a similar issue, except I'm 45 and he's 43. We literally only have each other in this family and he's ruining it. He came and stayed in my house for several days recently, and he spent that time telling me I dated wrong in high school 30 YEARS AGO. And he told me I dated bad boys but he was talking about a weird situation where an adult man tried to be with me when I was 15. I basically didn't date in my teens but I did get messed around with in ways that weren't legal. This manosphere stuff is a brain disease. Why would a man ruin all his relationships like this?
It’s incredibly disappointing and exhausting to care for male members of the family who behave like this. Specially now. It’s completely understandable if you distanced yourself from him and those who support him to keep your peace and safety. These men will regret the choices in the next few years. They are NOT appreciating whatever it is they have of value now. They will regret their choices, count on it.
Matt rife is Schrodinger's comedian: if you take him seriously, he's "just making jokes, " but if you don't take him seriously, "comedians are the last philosophers."
Matt is such a pick me. Women made him famous mostly because of his looks & he hates it. He craves a male audience because they are the only ones he deems worthy.
I once heard a great line from someone on TH-cam discussing masculinity: “Masculinity is just an imaginary finish line that keeps moving, depending on the man you're talking to.”
@@skankhunt4238 Is it the same though? Women were not allowed to own bank accounts in the 70's. Feminism is a set of set of goals. As goals get achieved new ones are set. That is normal. Now if a woman keeps cutting her face to try and become more and more feminine she starts to look like Kimberly Guilfoyle or Matt Gatez.
Everytime I see Jordan Peterson cry I remember that interview in which he stated, that crying has no real function & instead is solely a manipulation technique mostly used by women. So everytime i see any tears in his face I am like: „joooordaaan! 😁 your tricks don’t work on meeee 😄😄😄“
Okay but does someone seriously know what these people have against Elmo? I knew about Tate having one-sided beef with him and replying hate under his tweets which is one of the most pathetic things he has done online, but didn’t know about Peterson and would like to know what got their panties in such a twist
I once replied to a Facebook prompt asking what books would be a red flag if you saw them on your date's shelf. I said Jordan Peterson. The avalanche of vicious, aggressive, and threatening responses I received from men didn't seem to help them realise they were proving my point very effectively.
I'm a man, cis, straight, born and raised in South America, I'm always surprised about how the manosphere and the misogyny are so pushed and accepted in some circles, a friend once said “You can't have female friends, if you can't take them to bed, remove them from your life” the other one said “If you show your feelings, you're weak, and women won't like you”, the problem with these kind of people it's that they buy a doctrine and need it to be right or they won't feel accepted anywhere else because they think everyone is against them, I dodged all that manosphere stuff because I have enough good female friends in my life, I have my mom, the women in my family, and I can see everything they say is objectively a lie
"If you show your feelings, women won't like you" meanwhile, women swooning over Mr Darcy-type subtly emotional men (granted Mr Darcy is also an awkward man but the feelings are very much present and showing still)
Funny how I used to consume pick up artists content as a teenager because I couldn’t « get girls ». Turns out I failed because I wasn’t interested romantically nor sexually, i was just gay 🤷🏽♂️
Just say hi,introduce yourself....it will take a while,but approach them as human beings first before romantic partners (maybe try having female friends, eventually someone will rock your world)@@taleseylad1249👊❤️
@@taleseylad1249I just assume you are a young boy. Just think about how many factors play a role: common life goals, 50/50 or traditional roles, which parenting style?, common hobbies, common interests, like same food?, similar set of values? Matching boundaries? Monogam or polygamous? Same Humor? Same attachement style? Imagine for example having a spouse with who you don’t share a single interest & finding an activity together gets painful hard. Or you have vastly different food style & choosing a restaurant or a meal to cook gets hard. Different parenting styles what will confuse potential future kids… different set of values, different religions, different political views… There are so many factors. So OF COURSE it is hard to find a matching spouse if you have the intent to stay with each other forever.
To be fair, a large portion of pick up artists in the mid to late aughts seem borderline saintly in comparison to the red pill dwellers that came after 2017. The PUA was mostly corny and misguided with a few nuggets of truth dropped in. The manosphere actively dislikes women.
It's just a cycle of bitterness, insecurity, and isolation, isolation because you're isolating yourself from interacting with women as people and men as people.
My older brother started taking in this kind of content and now he isn't the same as he used to be. He got into the manosphere right after a breakup and now I barely recognise him. He body shames his sisters (youngest 10), makes fun on his brothers for not being 'manly enough' (which are just them not listening to his harmful advice), and his favorite hobby is to bully anybody who is 'weaker' than him (all his little siblings/ people he has authority over, including me). It's hell living near him, and my sisters already stopped talking to him. edit: Recently he has slowed down on his behavior (does it every 3-4 months), but he still believes all of the manosphere stuff, he just has stopped on showing he does. Tried arguing with him, but when we go to 'what a woman is' he said that I was being gay because I mentioned how some women can't give birth, which doesn't make them 'women' in his eyes.
@@MarioMario-vy4bi Simple. They thought life was sunshine and rainbow, and that women were sugar and spice then they got a rude awakening from an experience. The same system that created the nice version of the person also created the bad version. It's quite poetic.
What the heck are your parents doing allowing him to treat such young children this way? Parents should be enforcing visitations to a therapist as it’s unconscionable to allow that behaviour to go unchecked, especially when it’s actively harming other children in the house. Your parents should not just passively ignore this, if possible I would suggest you confront your parents about the gravity of his behaviour and assert that it is their responsibility to protect their other children from him, they cannot claim to love those children if they do not proactively protect them from harm. It’s one thing for him to self destruct over a post-breakup bruised ego but it’s another thing entirely to try and ruin the lives of children in tandem with his own. He needs to be called out for his shameful behaviour, he’s using vulnerable little girls as a proxy for petty revenge against an ex-girlfriend he’s neurotically refusing to just move on from, moreover he’s using his brothers as a proxy for all his own insecurities, by offloading all his feelings of self hate onto them he evades having to directly experience those emotions about himself. He needs a metaphorical slap to the face and a hard look in the mirror because he’s sunk far lower than just being the guy who was dumped by his girlfriend, he’s now the guy who tries to emotionally damage little children to feel powerful. If your parents are open to advice on how to handle him, one suggestion is to force him to verbalise what he’s doing via declarative statements. For example, having to make a declarative statement objectively describing what he’s doing, such as “I am body shaming my 10 year old sister” if he refuses to call it body shaming then he needs to be forced to recount exactly what words he said, from which your parents can assert as meeting the definition of body shaming and to call him out for trying to lie by claiming otherwise. But they shouldn’t stop there, the next declarative statement has to be about the “why” such as declaring what it makes him feel when he says it. He can’t be allowed to obfuscate it under redpill ideological drivel, he said those words because doing so gives him a specific emotional experience and he has to made to acknowledge it, which in this case is almost certainly going to be about it making himself feel powerful by hurting little girls. Making him speak that aloud as a declarative statement would recontextualise his behaviour into something that is embarrassing and shameful, not something to derive a sense of power from. Having his siblings there to witness also takes away any validity (and thusly, the power) of what he previously said to them. Honestly, if I was a parent in this situation this would be one of the few things I’d justify taking away unfettered internet access, especially if other attempts to adjust his behaviour failed. Redpill ideology is as malignant as any other cult and thusly necessitates similar intervention strategies to free someone from its grasp.
I find it wild how you get these “edgy” comedians who get cancelled for “telling it like it is” when they’re using the same jokes you’d hear in the 80’s and 90’s, they’re stale and mad they can’t coast on that.
i am one of the few this video sought to convince. I dont know if anyone will see this comment but as a young white male i want to cry. Everything you explained was everything i’ve experienced for many years now. the pseudo intelligence we collectively feel, the lack of feeling masculine enough, the projection onto women, everything. Its not like this is the first thing to knock me off the right wing pipeline, for many months now ive been learning about anti racism, anti capitalism, anti imperialism, etc. But this really just put it all together. Men really do hate women, and it is only because they see something in women that they dont have, that they want, and are told they cant have. That can and many times is sexual, but much more in many ways personal. Women are obviously feminine and feminity is beautiful with so many fruits. men are told any sign of feminine traits in them makes them less, makes them homosexual (as if thats a bad thing), and the real kicker of all this is that organized religion is one of the main powerhouses for this. That aspect wasnt covered in this video essay, but men are flocking to churches and mosques for any sense of community, acceptance, and domininance. Its very interesting and im only scratching the surface of my experiences.
the dedication omfg. I lost it at the tarot cards. you always go above and beyond with production value and I respect and appreciate the fk out of that
My brother asked me if I was still a virgin because of these podcasts and was ‘shocked’ and ‘relieved’ that I still was….. he then proceeded to tell his friends. We don’t talk like we used to.
I would stop talking to him about anything personal. It is Lilly that he or his "friends" could use it to harm you. Once somebody stops seeing you as a human being he (in this case) will have a lower threshold to cause you harm.
CREEPY. Please talk to your parents, grandparents etc. A regular brother would punch anyone who speaks about her sister virginity. Please make sure you are away from him.
I researched incels and the manosphere for a sociology class. The comments made me nauseous so for this amazing person to actual go in, hats off to them
You'd think that the assertments that, "feminism is the death of the western world," and, "Allowing women to vote," was a joke on the manosphere, but no, those men actually say that.
Can you define hypergamy? Now, can you acknowledge it exists? If so....is there a problem teaching men what that word is? That's ALL IM ASKING, this isn't even a defense of manosphere but those 3 questions specifically.
@@Gameruin3rwhat are you looking to get out of this question? None of what this person commented referenced hypergamy, or anything of the sort, but you feel the need to discuss it as if that's all the manosphere teaches (which it doesn't), which makes it clear you have an ulterior motive to your comments. Maybe watch the video you're commenting under and come back.
@@scream_kinh614why do you think incels and the manosphere exist? Most male feminist allies are incels btw, while non gen z mgtows are mostly divorced men with kids, which ARE NOT INCELS. Teaching men hypergamy, a huge concept they teach in manosphere, isn't misogynistic...it's a factual behavioral pattern in women that men should learn and adapt to. Let's say your sitting at a restaurant chilling. A 5'4 bald obese man poorly dressed enters, notices you, and unfortunately you can tell HE IS INTERESTED IN YOU. He's THINKING ABOUT APPROACHING AND FLIRTING WITH YOU.. IN THAT MOMENT, do you wish that HE KNOWS HYPERGAMY and adapts to it? Or has no idea wtf that means, and runs game?
As a woman in a male dominated working field, I spent a lot of time with them, I have more male friends than women but, it makes me see the lengths of the machismo and patriarchy has in my culture, in my work. Multiple times I had to hear about my male friends talking about a women in such a disgusting manner, or about how young their girl of the moment is... for years I stayed quiet until I just had to speak about it, maybe they were great friends to me, respected my boundaries and 'protect me' but why should friendship be the difference between me, a woman, and them, women. Some of them didn't take it kindly, others seem to be a little bit more aware about their ways. Hurts that one of those guys (no longer my friend, but still a friend of a friend, sadly) after me speaking up multiple times about what he said told me: "Why do you have to remind me that you're a girl? Thought you were one of us" and then treat me like trash... like now that he 'remembers' I'm a woman now I get the shitty treatment? Why is me being a woman such a defining factor after years of friendship?! Anyways, even if I'm closer to men, I still fear them. Even if my friends are there to 'protect me' I'm always alert... because it seems that you are never safe.
Sorry to hear that. I even feel guilty to a degree, bc I also had female colleagues where I put some kind of "one of the bros; therefore not a 'real woman'" stamp on. Hopefully your work environment is better now.
@@EinFelsbrocken Thanks!, it's getting slowly better, and my closest friends are more aware and trying to be better :) And at this point everything is so ingrained, that during my younger years I was proud of be 'one of the boys'. The first step is always recognizing our toxic patterns :D Edit just to add: and I think is better to see friends just like friends, understand that we have our differences but moving a person to a 'better level: be one of the guys' is not the solution. But little by little :D
Anecdotal stories that say absolutely nothing. If what these co-workers of yours said was so horrible you would surely speak of it here, but you yourself recognizes deep down that it was a mundane, inconsequential thing which if you bring here not many people would take seriously. This is also revealed by your coworker complaining to you - and rightfully so - that you kept reminding him that you are a woman. If you are about equality, why do you need to remind your coworkers that you are a woman? Shut up and do your work like men do. If you like it your style, then do it your style, these men won't complain but they won't bother about you either. And that is your fear, i.e. that men stop "bothering" about you. It is all about you and the attention you get from men at the end of the day. You are just a narcissist, that is all. Nothing surprising. You feel "never safe" with men. Fine. You are right. However in reality a man has 10 times more chances being beaten / mistreated by another man as well as 10 times more chances of being misteated by another woman than a woman risks being mistreated by another woman - and I do not include cat-fights and silly female antagonisms here but serious offenses such as stealing money, false paternity and murder.
Honey. I don‘t know how to say it but those men very likely talked the same about you when you weren’t around. You observed yourself that they talked poorly about women behind those women‘s backs. In their faces they were the bf who loved them. The same way they are your friends in your face. But behind your back, they are just men. You aren’t an exception in their eyes.
the manosphere is so wild to me because all these guys give out "dating" advice but barely any of them have long-term relationships they can point to as a "see, this works!!!" so, like, based on their own life experiences, their methods fail.
They give out advice on getting laid, not dating. They have said many times themselves that long-term relationships are a loss for men because the men in question just get financially and emotionally exploited, then cheated on and divorced.
@@PaulClipMaster I mean, except for the fact that they *also* say they plan to get married and have kids eventually. Myron has certainly said that. But they tell their followers that because a dude in a good relationship is not going to listen to them anymore. They have no incentive to help them.
@@becca_5649 Depends on how you define loser. They have a large following, heavy influence, and high income. Staying single or only being interested in sex does not make someone a loser. I would call them toxic.
As someone who fell into the manosphere for a large part of my teens, this video is a great representation of what I went through, and I am so grateful for those who helped me leave that space
Glad you made it out. Hope you’re much happier. I too came so close to becoming an angry misogynist incel in my teens for a variety of reasons (religion, family politics, etc). Thankfully a girl in a far higher social strata with a strong personality took interest in me, and that first relationship deprogrammed me. It really was as simple as realizing women were normal, fellow humans. From then on I never had trouble with interacting with women, I realized I could just be myself. Unfortunately so many guys never reach that epiphany. I shudder to think who I might have been without that first relationship. I will always owe a lot to her and her no-bullshit perspective on life.
As a man who has dealt with depression and had my turn listening to Jordan Peterson, I appreciate the empathy you have approaching this subject especially considering your own personal traumas, I happily smacked the like and subscribe buttons
Matt Rife's view that the only reason for men to care about women's rights is to get laid is both disturbing and just incredibly sad. Does he have no one in his life, no friends or family members, who genuinely care about his wellbeing and do nice things for him without expecting something back?
Right? I was reading other comments and according to their experience, dehumanisation starts at home: manosphere "activists" are terrorising their siblings to try and force them into patriarchal gender boxes. I'm older so I remember incels forums from the 2010s, where brothers were bragging about sexually harassing their sisters. 💔💔💔
He's gonna see the redpill cult grift has a 2-3 year shelf life like the other redpill grifters such a Fresh and Fit, Sneako, Donovan Sharpe (who openly admitted he's not doing anymore redpill content because he's not making money off of it), and Oshay Duke Jackson
One of the big reasons why the manosphere exists is that a massive amount don’t have someone who genuinely care about their wellbeing without expecting something back. You say that rhetorically like of course he has someone like that but no many many men don’t. We just have to admit that while patriarchy against women is still a big problem we have meaningfully improved things. How patriarchy helps women and hurts men is very strong.we have been able to expand what it means to be a successful women but we have not for men. Even as women make more money than ever, women still expect men in relationships to make more money. Women don’t like emotional men, etc
As a cishet white man, learning the truth of patriarchy and working to unlearn my biases is honestly so personally fulfilling. Not to center myself or say that feminism making me feel good is more important than its actual goals lmao but I want to address and dispel the notion that being a male feminist is some kind of masochism, sacrificing my own happiness and interests for the sake of women, or worse, just to be more "appealing" to women. It's not. I am far happier and more secure in my identity than the manosphere could ever make me feel. It's allowed me to pick and choose the masculine things that actually resonate with me (e.g. i like working out), which parts I'd personally prefer to leave behind (e.g. a lot of men's fashion being boring as hell), and which parts I *need* to leave behind (e.g. the violence and entitlement). It's enabled me to form a version of manhood that truly feels like me rather than psychologically disfiguring myself to fit a version of manhood assigned to me. I'm not naive enough to think I've simply opted out of patriarchy or that my job of examining my biases is over, but fighting patriarchy, not defining myself by its standards, and trying not to abuse the privileges it affords me have made me both more moral and more fulfilled. Two things the people supposedly supporting "men's rights" could never give me.
@@Romanticoutlawit’s kind of a paradox that if you guys would just be nice to them they wouldn’t be dangerous. Tons of them are too far gone, no matter what we do they cant be helped, but enough can be helped. Men have issues too like loneliness. We need to care.
@@minabotieso6944personally, I do care, quite a bit actually. Not everyone has the strength and energy to put themselves out there to actively fight the spread of the manosphere but there are people who are fighting, reaching out with kindness and compassion for those who it's not too late for.
@@minabotieso6944 Ofc people need to care about male loneliness, most people don't deny that. But you can't keep being nice to people who behave like a-holes or outright dangerous individuals. The irony would be that because they don't accept female friends, they are not only lonely friendship-wise, but also romance-wise. Most women will not approach someone who sees them as just a body to "conquer" or a piece of meat to feast on.
I think me being a trans man saved a friend from going down the pipeline? I asked him how he can be so supportive of me being trans (constantly affirming that I'm a man even though I'm a chunky dude who plays video games, loves cats and sews) while thinking he needs to adhere to Masculinity? It broke his brain for a bit and he is slowly healing. Nothing to this story but just look out for the bros in your life, this shit's everywhere.
And that's why the pipeline tries to erase and demonise trans people so badly. You're all literal proof that their ideology is BS and they can't handle that.
@@blacksocrates1well, it sounds like he avoided becoming part of a hateful group of people who see enemies everywhere they don't exist (see Peterson's paranoia about the commies lurking in every corner). But more importantly, this measure was preventative. The friend didn't get worse through joining a bunch of freaks. But you're right, hopefully the friend learns to be more empathetic for others and not just OP
Another issue that I have is that they say that providing is considered masculine. But they never exile men from their community who are not providers Instead they're gonna tell women to pick a better man while still lying themselves with the type of men who don't take care of their children.
Men can and often do provide, but that in itself isn't a masculine trait. Beta incels provide. A man who doesn't provide doesnt have his masculinity card taken, so manosphere has no reason to kick him out.
But men having to be a provider is a very big part of patriarchy. The manosphere people are dumb and bad by definition but the question is do women and feminism support this idea of patriarchy and the answer is yes they do
If you want men to always be the providers then you are really in favor of the patriarchy and that’s bad. It’s good that they don’t strictly hold themselves to the patriarchy like this. Most of these man sphere guys are young guys with no shot at gf let alone kids
@@minabotieso6944 did you read what they wrote? They never said they supported men being providers, they said these manosphere bros think men are providers, masculine and patriarchal. But still act opposite to their beliefs
"We don't know what 'you' and 'me' even mean, really. We can't know! Anyone who talks about 'other people' is just a post-modern neomarxist who thinks they understood some French writer! Ayn Rand had it right! Self interest is everything because we can only recognize ourselves, if we are lucky, and what benefits us should be self evident. Anything else is a mental disorder-the Dragon of Chaos!"
It is not really your business women, is it not enough that you invented feminism and spread ideas that emasculating men and distort the roles of the sexes in society and relationships ?? We need someone to talk against the modern women BS
Love how the manosphere is just a mini representation of the patriarchy. Everyone eventually gets hurt by the system, no matter if they're a target or a participant.
The manosphere slowly encourages further isolation until the only people these guys have is these internet gurus. Which is preferred for them, if these guys are loyal to only them they'll buy any course and book they put out and feed into their self centeredness.
This comment section is objectively hilarious. It ticks every mark. Its crazy just how predictable misogyny is. So many men will hate watch videos like these, over and over again, and never learn, just be angry. Its like, the definition of insanity.
Haven't finished watching yet, but I do want to say: When my dad was working for a university in Canada, a nearby convention hall was hosting a talk by Peterson. The university, being in close proximity, agreed to the convention hall's request to use half of their parking lots as overflow parking. My dad, upon hearing this, became _furious._ He sent a letter to the university, HIS EMPLOYER, and called them out as being hypocrites for making all their employees take sensitivity training upon hiring but refusing to stand their ground against bigotry and hate speech in the real world. He signed it "The proud parent of a non-binary child" (which would be me) and... I just love him so much. He no longer works for the university, idk if their refusal to renew his contract or rehire him to a diff position internally was related to this.
This is ridiculous. Even (especially!) people we strongly disagree with have a right to speak. I have a right to hear what idiots sound like for my own self. Censorship is a short-sighted, fascist solution to a complex problem.
My brother is part of the manosphere. When you described who they target, you described him perfectly. He wants a girlfriend so bad, but struggles to get one. I've tried to advise him that he could make friends with some women naturally and then maybe a romantic spark might occur. (The conversation was more complex than that but that was the gist). But he said he doesn't want to be friends with women. I think that's a very good insight into how they think. I feel sorry for him, because my spouse and I are best friends and I don't think my brother will ever get to feel the same connection that we have. Right after posting this comment I got to the part of the video where you talked about how they view women that way, as sex objects, not people to be friends with.
I am an incel that somehow got this in his front page, if that makes you not wanna read the rest of this post that's okay. I just want to give my two cents on this based on what I've seen in the community and what I've experienced myself. From an anecdotal point of view, trying to befriend them to go into a relationship often doesn't work out for non conventionally attractive men, you can see that both through the amount of incels saying the same thing AND the amount of posts made online by women complaining about a male friend or best friend asking them out. I also want to touch on the "Don't want to be friends with women" topic. I think it is unfair to regard this as your brother or anyone else just seeing women as sexual objects. As a man whenever I've approached a girl (for any reason) there's always the stigma that anyone present, or even the girl herself could think it's just for a romantic or even sexual reason. Now you could say that men deserve to be treated this way due to historical precedence that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change the reality that me, your brother and other incels don't want to be judged just for an attempt to approach a girl for any reason. Especially if a person's unattractive which adds the extra stigma of people thinking you're very unaware/arrogant for approaching a girl I'd say your brother doesn't want to be friends with women because just trying to approach a woman is a whole hurdle that realistically won't be all that different from just having a male friend let alone potentially lead to a relationship. As for "men viewing women as sex objects and not people to be friends with" Bear with me here as while what I say might sound a bit entitled at first that is not what I want to implicate at all. As a man the interests and hobbies I have are dominated by men, I've never had any girl try to be friends with me, show romantic or sexual interest in me And they shouldn't have to. It's not a woman's job to make sure a guy isn't feeling left out. But what I do want to say is this has led to an alienation from women where I can't really engage with them in anyway other than sexually. I can't engage with them romantically because they don't want me (which is like I said their prerogative. They don't have to want me.) I can't engage with them through my interests because it's male dominated (And before you ask, yes I do have interests that take me outside of my home and engage with other people in the real world, not just online gaming) I can't engage with them as a friend because they aren't interested in me. The only thing connecting me to the opposite gender is my sexuality. And like I said, this sounds entitled but I don't mean it that way, I want to reiterate that I'm aware it's not a woman's responsibility to engage with me in any way. I just want to explain that a lot of incels that you say only view women as a sexual object do so because there's no other avenue for them to engage women with, some of them absolutely are abhorrent people who just think all women are fleshlights but there are a lot of people that aren't entitled that just can't engage with women in any other way than sexually.
@@ThrowAway-t8d I just want to ask out of interest, dont you think when girls offer guys to be friends its also considered a romantic advance most of the time? And theres so many not conventionally attractive girls, which makes people consider them entirely invisible. Do you guys ever think about women who aren't conventionally beautiful and feminine?
As a girl who mainly interacts with/prefers the company of other girls I do get where you’re coming from here. However I do actually have platonic and working relationships with men through political and community organising. I find this more comfortable as us having a common goal/belief system that’s more important than just socialising takes out most of the awkwardness. This is really important cause it’s allowed me to unlearn a lot of the fucked up gender/sexual dynamics we’ve all learned and just generally have less social anxiety.
Again, women seriously need to learn to talk to the men in their life. That young man related to you is expressing a serious concern. Your response is, "Make friends with them, idk." And then, when he doesn't want your poor advice, you essentially say something is wrong with him. Of course, he's going to go running to Andrew Tate and Fresh and Fit. They offer more concrete and substantive advice for the problem he is experiencing. At least, in the eyes of people looking for that advice. It's like a parent who can't answer the questions of their child, but who gets upset when that child goes looking for answers in the wrong place.
@@kinrateia Referring to the part about girls offering to be friends. It definitely can be viewed that way but I don't think it is a fair comparison to make. In the current landscape of gender stereotypes it is a general expectation that for a romantic advance the onus is on the man to make the first move. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, hell I would prefer it to be the other way around but regardless it is an undeniable truth that our current society expects a man to make the first move and a result of this any attempt to approach a woman, not even for friendship but to ask a question or make a request can be viewed as something made out of a romantic or sexual desire. And while it is definitely true that this very expectation can make some people can interpret a girl approaching a man for friendship as "Woah, she wants him so bad she's willing to approach first" You have to admit that this is a lot less likely to be the case and that society generally doesn't expect girls to approach first and thus doesn't view attempts to approach as romantic or sexual. There's also the fact that like I said, an ugly guy approaching a girl can be viewed by others as him being arrogant or not being self aware of his own lack of appeal that is a lot less likely to happen to a girl from my experience. Referring to the part about whether if we think about women who aren't conventionally attractive or feminine. It is an undeniable truth that parts of the incel community, specifically the entitled people who see women as fleshlights that I mentioned in my first reply absolutely do think that they deserve the most feminine and beautiful girl there is regardless of their appearance. HOWEVER. I believe that the idea that every incel just wants a girl that's out of their league is a bad faith interpretation of incel fantasies. It is normal for person who was deprived of something to fantasize about the most desirable kind of the thing they've been deprived of. ie. A poor person fantasizing about being rich rather than having a low but stable income, A starving person fantasizing about the most delicious food he can think of rather than a regular nutritious meal. (I want to state that I don't want to objectify women and when I say most desirable, I mean most desirable in the eyes of the person. I'm not saying that there's an objective desirability standard that women should have to fit into.) And I think the idea that every incel desires only the most beautiful and feminine women comes from the bad faith interpretation of this normal fantasy. Now this doesn't at all justify any sort of entitlement from the community but at the same time I don't think it is fair to act like a person only desires the best there is because they fantasized about it. Me personally I've had crushes on girls that a lot of my male friends considered ugly/not feminine. I even got made fun of for liking a girl in highschool who went to the gym and built up muscle and kept her hair short so yes I'd say that there's definitely a part of the incel community who thinks about girls who aren't conventionally attractive that people generally aren't aware of because they interpret normal fantasies as concrete desires
My friend got super depressed and fell into this rabbit hole, he got super toxic, he would berate me, say the most sexist shit ever etc. Eventually I started distancing myself cause he was so exhausting to be around. thankfully he got a bit better with depression, got therapy and ended up leaving the incel shit. so good ending ig
As a straight white 40 year old man who was briefly lured by the MRA movement almost a decade ago, this video hits the nail right on the head about how these guys appeal to men. I'm glad I stumbled across this channel. Subscribed!
Women originally didn't want to vote out of fear of being eligible to be drafted. After selective service was dropped for women, then they were willing to vote
my confession is that i didn't know or understand who jordan peterson was because my dumbass kept thinking they meant the author james paterson and i'd go, "now what the hell do you mean that old man that wrote all of those books is an incel????"
So happy that you brought up men being SA'd when they are young and being culturally brainwashed into thinking they just won a prize. It's gross and needs to stop.
@@1OnlyGot7I saw a post about a 16-year-old boy being abused by his teacher and half that comment section was men saying "lucky guy wish it could've been me". Wtf does that tell you about feminists?
@@1OnlyGot7Also, most rapists male and female don't see jail time because it's a hard crime to prosecute and most people are too ashamed to come forward.
I was raised in a fundementalist Baptist Church/ cult and the toxic masculinity is heartbreaking. You see vibrant little boys be told "stop being so sensitive" "boys don't cry" etc. it's really sad
@@hello-rq8kf well there children? So complimenting or making any positive comments about a child who is Man infantilizing? What's so offensive about the word vibrant? Crying is natural human behavior, not processing your emotions will make someone bitter and sad like you.
@@hello-rq8kf calling it hypersensitivity when it's just emotional maturity and regulation 💀 I'm sorry you weren't allowed to be emotionally vulnerable and cared for growing up. You didn't deserve that but neither do the next generation of boys deserve to be raised emotionally stunted and repressed.
Quick note: There ARE subcategories for women, incels just tend to say a lot of women are Stacie’s. Stacie’s are the desirable and dominant women while Beckie’s are average women.
The patriarchy has always reminded me of a parent that will never unconditionally love you, it just tolerates you once you can conform to it. Sometimes you think if you try just a bit harder you can get it's love but not really because It was never made to love you or see you as a person. This causes you to never be able to be happy while trying to conform, u can only be you after u try to stop conforming.
I’ve always struggled articulating the unique grasp patriarchy has on women that you don’t see as much in other oppressive systems that cause the unique way women are trapped within rather than under. I think this does a rather beautiful job
Feminists have always reminded of bitter teenage girls who wanna blame their shitty life on their parents. They manifest this manufactured reality in their head where their parents are neglectful an abusive and don't care about their feelings, overall they lack the means to confront themselves and sort out their own problems so they try to find someone to blame for their lack of competence. This is why they become rebellious, they're so bitter and angry with their life that they think their only way out of the endless stress is to act out and rebel against the people they blame all their problems on.
Imagine being such a loser, and want to be oppressed so badly, that you think there is a patriarchy. There is no patriarchy. There will never be a patriarchy. There is however, the problem of the matriarchy.
@@lindensalter6713Women are the least oppressed people in western society. The obsession privileged women have with being “oppressed” is rather bizarre, especially when ignoring actual men’s oppression.
You don't know ? According to the "manosphere", we do not create human beings, we simply bare the human beings that men created 😂 As if they could "create" human beings without our seeds. Pathetic
"No but you see, what childbirth is truly reliant on is the sperm that's made its way to the egg. Without the molecular directives issued by the sperm, a womb produces nothing. Just like how women achieve nothing particularly significant unless told what to do." - Ben Shapiro, probably
I mean yeah, it takes two to tango. But then the same mentality expects child rearing, one of the most important types of leadership, from those who they deem unworthy of being leaders. Kinda silly.
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255which he designed with the help of ada lovelace :3 ❤️also he didn't "build" it, the analytical engine (aka "first computer program" which they both worked on) was never built.
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255 Babbage didn't succeed in building the first computer - he died before it was completed. Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace worked and collaborated together, with Lovelace designing the first software based on Babbage's prototype of the first hardware
@@data-dork Yes and? Did he or did he not originated the concept of a digital programmable computer? Did he or did he not design a "calculating machine" called the Difference Engine before he even met Lovelace? So what's your point apart from going "actuasshuly" ? Man invented the machine, woman coded the software. Her work could not have existed without his work and his work may have been very different if not for her work. They came together and accomplished something...together! Instead of being total idiots about it and playing the "but women" card , can we not just all agree both parties worked together and changed the world.....as they always did? Shes not diminished in any way shape or form.
The part about how we view men and sex is fascinating, because for so long I've noticed on news channels reporting about boys being SA-ed by older women specifically, is met with comments from men that the victim is "so lucky" and "I wish that happened to me when I was his age."
Yeah, and when there is a report on a girl being SA-ed by an older man they are very quick to "uhhh but if the roles were inverted no one would bat an eye"
@@esg721 Well, they are right. Statistically men get sexually assaulted as much as women, but that is almost never talked about. The streets are plastered with ads about women sexual assault awareness. Never seen one for men. I guess thats okay, men are disposable toys after all.
I'm a guy. A few years ago, a woman in my hiking group recommended that I check out Jordan Peterson because I "might benefit from listening to him" I still cringe whenever I think about it 😅
I am so happy that you ended up here and not on ~the other side of youtube~ Was once dating a guy who fell down the lobster man hole and it was hard to watch. I‘m glad I left.
I see way too many men falling for the manosphere crap and it’s so disappointing. As an educator, I worry about my students listening and being groomed by these people into becoming hateful.
@@Beth4nyI agree it’s a societal issue. One person doesn’t have to totally change society to provide an alternative but complaining about the man sphere has made no progress after years and years now. Let’s do something that actually makes some progress
@@minabotieso6944 critism. It's criticism.. wtf? We should never stop discussing issues because we don't see the impact right this second. If we did we wouldn't even have the right to vote. What are you doing for these young men?
@@minabotieso6944The alternative is reality. In a LOT of countries women literally have no rights. They are posessions. And even in the West women get killed by men pretty regularly. Men have pretty much owned women for thousands of years and can't even handle seeing a woman in a movie or game. It is pretty pathetic. Real men don't feel threatened by women, but boys do.
You mean _qualifications._ Competence is a measure of someone's skill level in combination with their ability to preform that skill. So, even if you want to pretend that's what you meant, you used the plural, while listing only one aspect that competency could be shown. @@BabaJaga
@furia2472 you have a close friendship with BabaJaga up there? I didn't read anything about a non native speaker. What I read was a comment that suggested someone wasn't allowed to make a joke. I don't know Dave Rubin or the Matt guy, I have no opinion on them either way. I do know when people use words they don't understand. Those people show themselves as not caring about the reality of what they say. Instead, they need to convey contempt with superiority, regardless of the veracity, in order to shame their adversaries in hopes of silencing any other opinion. BTW, if you don't speak English as a native language, you can just speak in your native tongue. Google offers to translate comments. This isn't the stone age
so much admiration and respect for you. not only for your talent and intellect but for your ability to submerge yourself in the manosphere and come out sexier and smarter
my ex once told me he liked me to look a certain way, dolled up and making personal effort about my appearance, so i tried to own clothes he found attractive and wore make up every day, even to sleep, and always had my hair done. i asked that same ex to please buy a new pair of pants (his were tattered with holes in the seat and several years old) and to wear one of the button up shirts he owned to dinner some time. he threw a tantrum so big it continued well after i left him. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 THOSE men have the nerve to call anyone fem presenting a delicate flower 🤣🤣🤣🤣
After transitioning, my wife lost one of her oldest friends because he’d been suckered in by Rogan & Peterson. It never ceases to piss me off how the manosphere has broken so many families & friend groups.
It’s not the ideology that breaks up friend groups, it’s the “friends” that can’t stand the thought of their “friend” holding different opinions and cutting them off.
@@thenoseyskeptic Acting as if this stuff is just a "different opinion" is crazy. A "different opinion" is preferring the Mets over the Yankees. Holding hateful, bigoted beliefs about a group of people (especially if you apart of said group) is lot more extreme than an "opinion". It is insane to me that you'd think that someone should continually associate with another person who believes, at best, that a core part of their identity is wrong, and, at worst, that their identity is vile and dangerous.
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 you’re assuming that anyone that holds beliefs remotely right leaning is a bigot that hates you. The follow up question would be, what if someone is left-leaning? Does that make them inherently moral or better? That’s what’s wrong and unhelpful.
It’s always been so funny to me that anti-feminists seem to think feminists can’t cook. My purple hair and refusal to worship another person based on their plumbing don’t prevent me from being able to put an epic meal together, maintain a sourdough starter or grow my own herbs.
I love to cook, and I love to collect cookbooks (newer ones as well as vintage). My dad loves to cook, he was a Veitnam war vet, taught my sister and I woodworking when we were kids, encouraged us to be self sufficient, and he knew how to use a sewing machine. My dad admits that mom raised me and my sister but he was supportive of women not adhering to gender norms.
Anti-feminists just like to think they are "not like other women" ... Sounds as if anti-feminism is closely connected to pick-me behaviour, which totally makes sense to me. 😅 Like, as a feminist, I have equality in mind: Why would I not want to cook, if I enjoy eating good, like everyone else? I expect my partner to do the cooking sometimes or to do the dishes or other housework, too, i.e. "share the load": *That* is what makes the difference. IMO, anti-feminists show their black-and-white mindset with such views, because in their minds, feminists want to suppress men in the same way and just switch roles. 🙄
Let's be honest, if someone can't say a very basic word, even when they are very capable of doing so, and you have respectfully asked them to say that word because it makes you feel more comfortable. That person doesn't really care or respect you in any way
Lmao or they’re just dumb as a bag o rocks. Like the way that crusty old man was damn near on the edge of tears blubbering about how “I won’t use the pronouns I won’t!” Like a whiny lil anime protagonist had me rolling off my bed 🫨
You are KILLING IT with these researched, thorough, well-made, comedic commentaries and it's SO necessary to have platforms like yours to help people question their non-sensical beliefs!! Thank you QUEEN for the work you do
@@henriettebopda5895 it's not something he got at birth though. It's a term used between academics, and I'm not one of his colleagues, so I'll call him Jordan only.
@@coolpilot5694 It's hilarious that people think free speech has anything to do with any of this. Free speech protects American citizens from persecution by their government when they are not breaking laws, and nothing else. What the manosphere wants is freedom from consequences, while also demanding personal responsibility.
@@coolpilot5694 ''not letting me be racist is violating my human rights''. do you NOW get how idiotic you sound or do you still think hate speech should be allowed..?
I learned once from a college guest lecture about the Barbie movie that spoke about the difference between femininity and masculinity. They argued that women have been able to redefine femininity outside of the context of the patriarchy and men have not been able to because masculinity depends on the oppression of someone else, whether it be the other sex/gender or otherwise. That was such an eye-opening moment that I always think about it when thinking about this conversation of the "manosphere"
Masculinity depends on opression? And someone got that out of a Barbie movie of all things? You know the movie that parodies the manosphere ideas and has the main character beg to become a manservant?
If masculinity depends on oppression, then it is inherently and irredeemably toxic. When critics of feminism complain about masculinity being described in such terms, they're mocked - by feminists of course - and the claim is denied. Here we are, then. At least this one lecturer definitely believes all masculinity to be inherently and irredeemably toxic. The least damned thing you can do is acknowledge that this 1) is a real thing that happened and 2) is a real cause for men to dislike the underlying ideology.
Thank you for your hard work creating this sort of content. I'm a university professor and unfortunately some of my students sometimes reference Peterson or even worse, fellows like Fresh and Fit. Your help in decoding the manosphere is invaluable. Furthermore, my wife and I tried to watch Rife's "comedy" special and only made it about ten minutes in. His appalling views are a lot more understandable thanks to your insights.
I really liked your response to the criticism you faced from other women, especially white woman, who said you shouldn't make these videos. Not all women will have the time, patience, or even emotional space to deal with helping men become less misogynistic, and if an individual woman can't do that, she doesn't have to. But we all should recognize that the work you are doing, and the work you are advocating for is important to solving the same issues affect all of us here. If someone doesn't have the space at the moment (or maybe even ever) to open themselves up like that, they don't have to watch your video, and they should have the self-awareness to know that just because you are doing something, doesn't mean it is an affront on them. There will be/have been some very important feminists which put in a lot of work to help dismantle patriarchy, and some of jobs will be to literally just survive as women, but even in that we should deeply deeply appreciate the people who go above and beyond to try to make the world better with love and compassion.
Fully agree. Personally I don't think I could do that, at least not at this point in my life. I'm very mentally unwell and have a lot of my own issues related to feelings of worthlessness and a clinically significant obsession with beauty. Even watching videos like this honestly can (sometimes) negatively affect my mental health because it all gets overwhelming. It reinforces the voices that tell me that the most important thing is how I look (both to myself and others), and since I'm currently trying to avoid eating disorder behaviors sometimes I'm just not in the right place to engage with even acknowledging men who have the opinion that everything about me comes back to my body. This woman is doing a great service in my opinion and I have nothing but appreciation for her. I don't have the strength to deal with and give space to men like this, even ones who want to get better because everything about it just feeds the little mongrel in my head telling me that I need to be beautiful (deserving, memorable, worthy of being cherished) or die.
I disagree. You are missing men’s perspectives so it’s always going to fail. Men are in cr*s*s right now. Making men less misogynistic is a correct goal but it misses the point of why the man sphere exists and it’s not going to land well. Men are going through tons of issues of their own issues right now, none of which are that they are misogynists. That’s a women’s issue. The man sphere exists because we never talk about helping men’s problems and women still really like patriarchy when it hurts men. It’s not going to land with men to say you are misogynistic. They fall to that because they are struggling and only have problematic people trying to help them. We need to have discourse and empathy for helping men just as much as women
@@AliceBunny05 I DO have the space to confront and talk to men about this issue and it STILL deeply negatively affects me reading through these absolutely heinous and terrifying Manosphere ideas. I can't blame you. Also, we as women CANNOT change the minds of the people who hate women because they don't respect us. People don't learn from those they don't respect. I'm working with the more lost boys/men who are just looking for good role models and are confused and WANT to change. But it's hard to not let that anger and rage and fear I feel after reading/ watching 12 videos of men promoting the physical abuse of women to find proof of how bad the Manosphere beliefs are for women (and men) seep into my discussions with them. It's a bloody hard balance and I can't blame you for not being in a mental space to do so.
I fully agree. As one of the women who will probably never take the time to try and educate the misogyny out of someone, unless it's one of my younger brothers, I'm glad she's putting out the content for the men that might want to listen. Unlearning my own patriarchal biases was hard enough without having to force myself to listen to perspectives I not only disagree with but deem dehumanizing. Even coming to the realization of my queerness and unpacking the fact that I will never live a life that is "normal" and acceptable to most people has done enough harm to my mental health.
With you 100% on this. I'm not going to sacrifice my mental sanity and waste my words on someone who is not even perceiving me as a human being, but as a walking vagina whose only purpose is to serve a man. I know that there are young men out there who are scared and turn to the manosphere as an "escape to reality", but it's not our responsibility to deprogram them. I truly believe other men have to take the lead, how could a woman succeed when the other person dehumanizes you?
Not just that, but manosphere types bring up the potential of having to be called up almost like it’s a bad thing as they’re trying to sell it as masculinity defined, because they always bring it up in relation to how many men die younger than women. But they will never pause to think “hey, maybe that means I need to participate in my government to do something about that.” Why? Because the manosphere ultimately is a snow job intended to keep the wealthy wealthier, and poor males focused on meaningless trivialities they can beat into other non-wealthy people.
I remember being an awkward, shy kid with a crush. For a short period I tried looking up how to talk to girls and it was very easy slipping into this, calling pick-up artists the bouncers of the manosphere is on point. Thankfully, it was short lived for me, mainly because it just creeped me out, the idea of that kind of transational world between men and women was really depressing. I thought that even if their methods worked, I wouldn't be happy, I don't know why they think it's a desirable life. It sounds fucking miserable. I'd rather rot on the couch with my girlfriend watching kdramas ngl, that's happiness to me. Sad thing is there's no way to even talk to men who are deep into this, I've literally had conversations about it where I tried to convince a guy I knew for a long time, that yes I want to spend my life with that one girl, yes I'm happy and don't wanna fuck everything that moves, they just think you're lying to yourself. Well, if I am, it's working because this is pretty fucking nice. These dues either realize it way too late when they've wasted years and drove away good relationships, or never realize it and die as sad old men, it's depressing.
This was... refreshing to read. I have male friends and they tend to have very whorish tendencies and they aren't fulfilled with that life, because sleeping around sucks. It's like giving away a little piece of yourself bit by bit. I don't know how to get them to see it and frankly its not my responsibility to try. It is nice to know that there are guys that actively realize how awful the hoe life is 😅
Its wild to me that these ppl cant comprehend that men being femminist is simply an act of solidarity. That we want the best in life for our sisters, daughtersm, mothers, realatives and friends.
It's not that simple, that simple. Feminism like to pretend it not that it's fair but it always exposes itself. True intentions are found in product not speech. Remember the feminist frech lady that placed a 18% more payement rule for men or the fact that every other feminist movie or fantasy world from the Amazon kingdom to barbie involves the enslavement, killing, ecarcaration or belittling of men and their masculine energy. I've grown to understand that patriarchy is very bad but I've also grown to understand that I can never have a voice in feminist space unless I suppress my masculine energy or unless I'm femine is some manner. At the end day the world is cruel place and the only thing I'm waiting for death, in the meantime I'll be the best I can be but I'll never label myself as either a feminist or conservative cause neither is good, it's just a power struggle between men and women.
@@yamiyugi2894 this is your chance to get off your butt and start advocating for yourself better pay more time with your family better access to both physical and mental healthcare get out there!
@@yamiyugi2894Because feminism isn't about men's issues. Don't get me wrong, men have issues and those issues are just as valid, but those should be addressed by their own groups and organisations. You don't go to a tailor to get your roof fixed. No hate, just trying to explain ✌🏼
Like, why can't rife just accept that he doesn't actually know how to write funny jokes? Okay dude, YOU thought you were funny, but a lot of people disagree with that. It is what it is.
@@angelaa7388 Because a lot of people DON'T disagree with that and no one gets to dictate what someone else finds funny. Honestly Rife's conservative turn would be the funniest thing he ever did IF he did it as a joke. But he can DECIDE to start doing it as a joke anytime.
I think that guy picked really bad timing to start joking in that way... distasteful to say the least. Many women are in deep pain because of these things. Physical trauma. Not funny. They wouldn't laugh at a veteran who was injured in war. Or would they? 🤔🤨
I think it escapes Jordan Peterson that when people call him "far-right" or assign an ideology to him, they are actually giving him the benefit of the doubt in the sense that most people assume that his attitude stems from deeply-held convictions. But as Jordan says, this is wrong. It's not that he adheres to a coherent ideology, it's just that he's just a self-important asshole who fits right in with other men who have figured out how to make a nice living by punching down.
Funny story, when my mother was watching a clip of his, all I could say was "oh, that's the talking guy." When she questioned, I said "yeah, he's just always talking." And, that's all I remember of him. Not even his name until someone mentions it 😅
It might have been Innuedno Studios or Lindsey Ellis, but I remember an essay that noted that ideology of Jordan's sort holds malleable sub-ideologies. That is they will believe what needs to be believed in the current moment in order to achieve their current goals. This may mean that they one thing in one moment and then say something entirely contradictory in the next, and that's not a problem for them. They are consistent in their inconsistency. It is the 1984 method of being able to say with utter conviction that 1+1= 3 and then immediately sayng 1+1=4 with that same conviction because the party switched lines. So Jordan will say whatever he needs to say - and believe it in that moment - in order to be right and justify his larger beliefs.
@@PhotonBeast you' actually find this in a large number of esp right wing political parties. They're don't actually believe in the assigned ideology of that group. It's just a team to join, that encourages them not to think, to just be angry and enjoy the ability to commit violence. Hence why pointing out that they're being hypocritical means nothing, because they don't care about being a true believer, just a angry one.
My brother fell into this space when he was a kid. It's done irrevocable damage to him as a person. And not in a, "Boo he doesn't believe what I do" way. It's in a way where he can't communicate or socialize properly. Where he can't connect to others. Where he's so caught up in being on the "intellectual high ground" that he can't just exist around other people. It breaks my heart that all he knows is having a wall between him and other people.
My ex is a redpiller. I am a Christian woman and when we met he pretended to be a traditional man. His idea of tradition? It basically came down to "I am going to be a bachelor while you take care of the house and kids". I supported him financially, yet he couldn't stop talking about women being golddiggers. I live at home with my parents, but he still told me every other day that I "was probably cheating because all women cheat" I - obviously - dumped him. I am sure he is telling his new girl right now that I cheated on him and stole his money or something. In all seriousness though, I still haven't healed. This man was the most hateful, sexist and miserable person I ever met. Love makes blind! Thankfully I got out.
For every woman wronged like you, there are probably 2 or 3 guys who have had the police wrongfully called on them, been no-fault divorced and lost their assets and kids, a mans sperm was stolen via sperm theft and forced on child support... i could go on. Women can be made victims by asshole men, asshole women have proven capable of doing the same to men. I wish you best in your healing journey
"I am going to be a bachelor while you take care of the house and kids". is actually pretty much what traditional masculinity is. Except that the men had a job.
@@anthill1510 That is not true at all. I come from a traditional Christian family and my father and mother adored eachother. They both worked. My mother wanted to work, but didn't have to. My father, a Christian conservative, always told me that men who look down on women are not real men and not real Christians. This idea that 'tradition' automatically means 'sexism and oppression' is simply not true. It all depends on the person. Bad people take advantage of things. Good people don't. You can't turn a good man into a bad man by putting him in a traditional marriage. A bad man in a traditional marriage was always a bad man. Do you think history only had bad men? Political rhetoric in the United States has no nuance and is very extreme and frustrating. People are either for or against something - instead of letting people live the way they want. I am not an American. I am Dutch. Over here we don't have culture wars about this. If you want a traditional marriage - that is fine. If you don't - that is also fine. Also "traditional" does not mean the same in every country. Edit: Typos
I’ve never actually heard Peterson speak, I just heard other people talk of the stuff he was spewing. It’s genuinely surprising to me just how much he sounds like a muppet. It feels like he thinks he’s playing a very dramatic piano piece but in actuality only has a kazoo.
lol so in other words rather than think for yourself and actually go and listen to his videos you take your info from random people who already don't like him and you believe everything they say about him, hmmm?
I was hanging out with a group manosphere was brought up, everyone agreed it was probably a psy-op to "make other dudes desire the alphas, and be available for dL messin round, and have the 'gay is bad' rhetoric to blackmail the vulnerable guys" I don't know if that is real, but it sure was a nuanced conversation, I was just listening to it bounce back and forth like. 👁➖👁hmmm 🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤 Much Love!!
@@endTHEhegemony_Today I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's a psyop, but I have definitely had the thought that DL men can't just be a thing in black male spaces. Surely at least some queer or questioning alpha male manosphere gym bro whatever the f**k they call themselves realized they could f**K around with a bro but then also have their "straight" privileges by not being openly queer and continuing to spread homophobia when it's convenient to their fanbase and/or manosphere communities.
@@endTHEhegemony_Today Love that take. I don`t think it`s true, but I like the presupposition that these guys can`t be serious and this 3D chess is more likely than them actually being serious.😄 For the record: I think the manosphere bro`s are grifters, but I think some of them are high on their own supply.
I really appreciate this video. My boyfriend has started watching Jordan Peterson and co and it’s been hard talking to him about it esp when he uses their talking points and deflection tactics. As I grew up progressive with conservative family I know to avoid arguments when no one’s open to change and I try not to bring politics up. But he keeps posing hypothetical questions and when I try to answer he’ll interrupt and steer the conversation towards bullshit that is barely related. It’s very frustrating and gets us nowhere, and it feels like he’s having fun watching me scramble to answer every question. This video obviously isn’t going to fix that but it does help me understand where he’s coming from and I’m hoping that will help next time this happens, so thank you
I’m worried that my boyfriend is also going down the same path. He listens to Jordan Peterson’s podcast and although he doesn’t talk about it with me, some of the things I’ve heard him talk about with his friends and family have really made me question how he views our relationship
@@brwnhilarybanks9953 yeah, that’s the part I’m having a a hard time with. This isn’t a new relationship, I thought I had an understanding of how he views a lot of things and now I’m confused at the change from the person I thought I knew before. It’s not like he’s taken a sudden hard turn into being a manosphere extremist, it’s a lot more subtle than that and I guess that keeps my hope going that he can see through the bs
My 14 year old cousin is starting to get sucked in the manosphere, hes started saying slurs, talking about the jewish space lazers one day when i wore a crop top hed told me point blank that I'd be 'asking for its" I've tried to tell him that hes being a dick but everytime he brushes me off as a "dumb sensitive women" I dont know how to help him and im scared it'll get worse
@@manderly33 ignore him Some people just feel the need to comment on others post just to have a fleeting feeling of satisfaction and importance Not worth anyone’s time imho
@@Braingore-de-Rais why do you think it is important? Get your own shit together before putting your nose in other people's business or taste of fashion. Get a life.
It’s not like a 14 year old has lived any of the issues discussed in the man sphere. He just supports that stuff out of immaturity and imitation. The solution is We need to provide an alternative to the man sphere for men. It’s the only thing that talk about men’s problems.
1:33:10 "Change is humanity, humanity is hope, and I am one hopeful motherfucker" brb getting this painted on my wall, printed on my shirt, tattooed on my skin
I'm a lesbian. But that doesn't change the fact of how I feel. I feel deeply for men and have had many men in my life who were there for me when no one was. This video was brilliant. I really hope we can all sit down at the table and laugh and cry and be human together.
Look at you vouching for a group of people who don’t want to sit with you because they don’t see you on the same levels. Let’s stop pretending it’s woman’s fault men don’t want to advance and do better. Everyone else can sit and act right , why can’t they? My
@@imthatbishhh5152women don’t view most men as human beings either. In a society where we talk about women’s issues everyday and never talk about men’s issues. Just stop the cycle of suffering and hate and be nice to people
Women unsuccesfully try to bring up women issues, we men should stop shaming each other and start uplifting each other instead. Women trying to get better doesn't mess with us in any way. The sooner we stop trying to seem like the bigger loser the better. @@minabotieso6944
LOL being a man on the left sucks. My lesbian friends all cut me off because they are "decentering men in their lives". Woman on the left choose to hang out with a bear vs. supporting their own men. There is nowhere else for men to go except into the arms of the right wing... lusting for traditionalism.
Thanks for making a video about this! As the mother of a white preteen son, I am in constant fear of him going down that rabbit hole. We are trying to instill in him an understanding that he is not entitled to anything (We don't want him suffering from Mediocre White Man Syndrome). I also try to teach him about explicit consent, intersectional feminism, and standing up to his friends when they say/do something inappropriate.
What I found helpful is also talking about his own boundaries + how it feels to be mistreated for him and ask how does he think this would affect others people.. just my few cents
This is like trying to raise a chaste daughter by making sure she's raised in a religious household that forbids all talk of the subject and reinforces to her that smex is bad. If you try to force it down their throat, they will rebel. Many dudes in the manosphere have a "I was raised to be the opposite of this," origin story.
Just my 2 cents but as you teach him that he is not entitled to anything, make sure you also teach him that he's worth loving no matter if he falls into certain preconceived boxes society creates. Alot of these guys are taught that they must desire and are not worth being desired. Their entire belief system around love is in doing and not simply being.
I personally think that this whole manosphere problem is due to social isolation, and the social isolation is largely caused by car-centric infrastructure and moving to the suburbs. Sheltered and isolated childern will grow into sheltered and isolated adults, and that point it becomes hard to fix.
The MRA section reminds me of that Jubilee middle ground video where they had (I believe) MRA's and feminists on, and one guy was saying 'most people who fight in wars are men. most people who commit suicide are men'. And a woman claps back with 'And who set that system up?'
That’s an awful response. Regular boys today with no money or power are not responsible for the crimes of all men throughout human history. That’s so silly. There really isn’t a men vs women team like that. Men have always suffered massively due to patriarchy. National and racial teams are more present
@@minabotieso6944men still control all the power in government and big corporations today in 2024. Men still benefit the most from patriarchy so to act like that’s not relevant bc you personally don’t think enough people are talking about men’s issues is seriously unhinged
@@minabotieso6944 you replied to every comment ever are you okay vro calm down for a second and maybe focus on your life rather than gender issues if it gets u this riled up
I think it was a irrelevant comeback. How is saying "you look and sorta act like the people that caused the problem" in anyway a response to what the kid was saying. I agree with the left side in that video, but that response was not good. To me it's like telling a son who's being beat by his dad to "lay in the bed you made" when he neither made the bed, asked to sleep in it, or wants to sleep in it, but has to only because he looks like his dad. To be clear, women have it a lot harder in our society then men, but to discount men's problems as "well your ancestors made them" is just not helpful and honestly invalidating in many respects.
As a man, this is really amazing. I'm so tired of making friends and then learning of their misogynistic bull. My highschool's government classes are split red vs blue by gender. It's cool to hear someone calling out the institution of it. But at the same time I had no idea that it's common for women to be afraid of men in general and godamn I am sorry. Even reading all the comments gave me this like horrible perspective that yall have to look through for your own safety on the daily. I understand constantly feeling on guard with specifc types of people, (because safety) but not HALF OF THE DAMN POPULATION. So um sorry and because I learned this, I'm now gonna try and focus on making my female friends feel more safe in my presence. Thank you shanspere and everyone's stories in the comments.
Only NPCs let happenstance determine their political views. I’m a (mostly) liberal man in a 90% Trump county, the insecurity I witness by the young Trump-flag-flying pickup truck crew is off-the-charts. I don’t need to advertise my beliefs to feel secure.
As a man, the "red pill" sounded like the right way to be a man, but the moment I treated my female friends without romantic or sexual thoughts, I found the best people and friendships I had ever met.
I, as a young American white man, have also been able to make amazing female friendships with non American women who are a little older but the other American women that are my age prove the pill people correct everyday.
@@minabotieso6944you're allowing anecdotal experiences and the internet to influence your opinion on a large, diverse group of women. I hope you're able to heal.
@@minabotieso6944 I mean, on the other hand, no one is entitled to anyone's friendship. There just are people you won't get along with. I also don't hang out with the radical extremists from the villages around and could also say that because they proof the pill people correct, but from an outside perspective, like in the red pill people not being the ones you want to be around...
I’m glad you brought up “they perceive.” A lot of people who fall into this hole feel unheard and telling them that they aren’t doesn’t fix the problem. Regardless of what is or isn’t happening, I think it’s important we give these people a place to voice their worries.
I used to be one of "them" but I am glad to announce I managed to escape and now looking back I realize how stupid and cringe this whole thing was and I am deeply ashamed of my previous self
Hey, you had to have the journey, and if you found that you tried something and you also found it wasn't for you, more power to you! You are not that person now and right now, you can be proud of your self
Typically I hate when podcasts, documentaries, or videos insert clips from movies just to hammer in their point. I find the use of them in this video to be on point, and thank you for not making them loud and 2 decibels higher than the rest of the video. (47:49 for example). You make some great points, your thoughts are well thought out and you are easy to listen to while I'm sewing / knitting. I'm now a subscriber, and a huge fan.
In dating, men don’t care how much women earn but women usually expect the man to earn more than themselves. Making money is very obviously a much bigger deal for men than women. Don’t complain about taking care of the household to man sphere guys who have no hope of a wife or family. Take it up with your husband.
@@minabotieso6944I can't count the amount of stories I've heard of women where they are the breadwinner and do all the housework and the man does nothing. Not to mention how much women get demonized for being gold diggers. I'd say at this point the expectation is to split the bill because men get mad if the woman wants to be treated.
@@minabotieso6944I'm a woman and I genuinely do not care how much a man makes. I make my own money and don't judge someone on that. Redpillers think that 20-year old superficial Onlyfans models represent all 4 billion women on earth.
On top of that saying it’s not women’s job to help men, men have to help themselves. Well then men just go to the manosphere because that’s the only group trying to help men
@@minabotieso6944 Except they’re not. Because men only end up getting radicalized. You need to hear this: these particular thought leaders have NO INCENTIVE to help you make your life better. That loses them money. They want you to stick around, listening to them say the same things over and over in different ways, forever. And I gotta tell you: a lot of redpilled men won’t accept help or advice from women when offered, because they’ve absorbed these messages. Y’all do need to help each other.
@manderly33 from the few times I've participated in these conversations, "acting" and having a more masculine pfp has gotten me *SIGNIFICANTLY* more positive responses than not. Like, actual minds changed. They literally just don't respond or make assumptions about me when I seem to be a woman behind the screen, even with the same. exact. points. This, quite literally should be, a mostly man to man issue. not that women can't play their part, just that they won't hear us out nearly as much; if at all.
@@minabotieso6944Although it is true it's not a women's job to help men. Men have their own autonomy. Yes they should have assistance if they wanted but generally that statement of women helping men often comes out of entitlement and I strongly disagree for that.
@@Lemoncakelover678that doesn’t change that the man sphere is the only group trying to help men so the men are going to go to the man spheres nobody is saying it’s the job of women to help men. You guys are strawmaning and focusing on the craziest voices. Women don’t care to help men but it would be nice if they did. Men get smacked in the face by reality pretty quick if they try to rely on entitlement too much. You guys don’t want to understand men. Especially in dating men have to fight for every date while women wait to be pursued.
As a man, I have been watching in abject horror as the needle of mainstream masculinity has been dragged off the deep end over the last 10 or so years. Adolescent males today have a severe lack of healthy outlets for their natural aggression and anger (by this I mean hormonally) and these snake oil salesmen have grabbed the reigns of the zeitgeist and bolted with it. We are currently experiencing an emotional intelligence regression in society and it's not just boys/men either. I fear for the future my kids will have to live in.
If you don’t want to create healthy outlets for men to learn about healthy masculinity and work on their problems then you don’t get to complain about the snake oil salesmen. The snake oil salesmen are the only ones meeting men where they are at. There have been enough video essays saying the manosphere is bad. We have to move on and start providing a solution for men.
@@manderly33yeah I am personally trying to form healthy outlets for men but nobody here is. This video is a copy paste of a million other videos before. We didnt need another video essay explaining all the factions in the manosphere and what their beliefs are. We need to finally create an alternative to the manospherr
@@minabotieso6944 You clearly do, because you are carrying a LOT of hateful shit around about women. I’m not sure you’d even know what a healthy masculinity looks like. If you were actually trying to change, you would not be repeating the things you do. Also you have no fucking idea what anyone else is doing. There are left wing YT men who do great healthy masculinity content: Noah Samson, Swolesome, Macabre Storytelling mostly talks movies but did a short series about his redpill experiences and healthy masculinity.
@@coolchameleon21I liked that people have called him out as a dumb guy's idea of a smart guy. I remember looking into him years ago and realising that this man goes on long rants about nothing.
@@coolchameleon21It's the same with people calling Ben Shapiro a good debater honestly. The only thing he's good at is overwhelming and agitating his debate opponents by talking fast, constantly interrupting them and/or insulting them. It's such a simple strategy that consistently fails as soon as someone keeps their cool lol
I looked it up; he hasn’t lost it yet but he could lose it IF he doesn’t take court mandated media training. his opinions were deemed harmful to the public and reflected badly on the field of psychology
People like you are so important on the internet! Sometimes it feels hopeless and like the evil forces have taken over every platform and every issue! So thank you for being a light!💡
I wish more men would watch things like this. It’s so upsetting how many of them don’t realize that feminism isn’t causing their problems, but trying to solve them.
They're probably being burned by how some of the more radical feminists act towards them, I don't know, maybe giving the impression to men that they can't even go to feminist marches (I have even seen in my country men being attacked just by trying to go through them to get to their homes lmao) or even present their thoughts and problems honestly without being immediately labeled as a misogynist doesn't create the most welcoming environment for men to have positive relations and productive conversations, but I don't know, maybe, it's once again the problem of men, right? Hahaha
"just trust the feminists" isn't the answer to their issues. i hate the red pill and i wish people like you would leave the disingenuousness out of the conversation. it pushes them further into it.
i dont know where i read it but someone said that the "thing" with guys like peterson, musk, bezos, rife etc is that they can't imagine anyone, especially not men, being more altruistic than them (and that means "being altruistic at all).
When I was in the last years of highschool, I fell deep into the manospheric world, it was truly a hell of my own making. Ive come so far since then getting out of it, realizing that I was only making myself angrier and angrier at some intangible thing. I hated that I experienced thoughts and feelings of hatred like that. I have never been able to properly vocalize how damaging it was to me, how damaging it was to the people around me, men and women, my siblings and parents. Since then I've come much further, I've been able to critically look back at how ruinous my beliefs and actions were, and at least try to rectify them, to apologize for them. Thank you for this video, It is an incredibly insightful video essay. I'm now happily engaged to a woman with a degree in gender studies, a degree in history, and a masters :)
My brother has fallen down this rabbit hole and honestly it’s gotten to a point where he tried to convince ME to become a submissive woman for men…I’m a minor and he knows Damm well what men have done to me. It goes so unbelievably deep that men like my brother are now destroying their relationships, like I don’t talk to him anymore due to how he treated me. It’s so upsetting and disgusting how the Manosphere acts like it will solve all their issues in reality it breaks down the only good things they have leaving them more lonely and bitter, sadly.
I'm sorry for your brother's plight and especially whatever men might have done to you in the past. You don't deserve that kind of treatment. ❤
I'm sorry that what should be an important relationship has turned sour (for lack of a better term). I hope you have/can find space and dignity for yourself. And for your brother's sake, I hope he can turn the corner, do some personal work, and remembers the value of having you as a sister before he loses that chance forever.
I'm sorry you've experienced this. My brother and I are having a similar issue, except I'm 45 and he's 43. We literally only have each other in this family and he's ruining it. He came and stayed in my house for several days recently, and he spent that time telling me I dated wrong in high school 30 YEARS AGO. And he told me I dated bad boys but he was talking about a weird situation where an adult man tried to be with me when I was 15. I basically didn't date in my teens but I did get messed around with in ways that weren't legal. This manosphere stuff is a brain disease. Why would a man ruin all his relationships like this?
It’s incredibly disappointing and exhausting to care for male members of the family who behave like this. Specially now. It’s completely understandable if you distanced yourself from him and those who support him to keep your peace and safety. These men will regret the choices in the next few years. They are NOT appreciating whatever it is they have of value now. They will regret their choices, count on it.
Oh yea they’re leading a lot of men into perpetual loneliness and pain. Nothing worse than watching someone get their mind turned inside out.
Matt rife is Schrodinger's comedian: if you take him seriously, he's "just making jokes, " but if you don't take him seriously, "comedians are the last philosophers."
Aka the Dave Chapelle defense.
Matt is such a pick me. Women made him famous mostly because of his looks & he hates it. He craves a male audience because they are the only ones he deems worthy.
You've got to do a point by point breakdown, it seems the probability of being mauled has something to do with it.
this is brilliantly accurate lol
This is a stunning analogy, 100%
I once heard a great line from someone on TH-cam discussing masculinity: “Masculinity is just an imaginary finish line that keeps moving, depending on the man you're talking to.”
@@Error-000 W line
@@skankhunt4238 no, simply no, feminism is a social movement not a concept of behavior, clothing, appearance and etc, you're just butthurt
So what youre saying is chasing masculinity is edging /j
@@skankhunt4238 Is it the same though? Women were not allowed to own bank accounts in the 70's. Feminism is a set of set of goals. As goals get achieved new ones are set. That is normal. Now if a woman keeps cutting her face to try and become more and more feminine she starts to look like Kimberly Guilfoyle or Matt Gatez.
@@fynntasticmovienight Unironically, that's the most accurate depiction of it
Everytime I see Jordan Peterson cry I remember that interview in which he stated, that crying has no real function & instead is solely a manipulation technique mostly used by women. So everytime i see any tears in his face I am like: „joooordaaan! 😁 your tricks don’t work on meeee 😄😄😄“
Your sense of humor is fucking puerile.
@@Mieze0503 Damn!
@@Mieze0503 Your sense of humor is puerile
I dont understand how someone so appealed by evolutionary perspective can say tears have no function
+ social function is still function
That sounds extremely made up
Jordan Peterson having beef with my boy Elmo should already be the end to his street cred
Muppet on Muppet violence
@@psychicbyinternetlet’s not disrespect the muppets like that 😂
his Sesame street cred
he's just mad Elmo's voice is lower than his
Okay but does someone seriously know what these people have against Elmo? I knew about Tate having one-sided beef with him and replying hate under his tweets which is one of the most pathetic things he has done online, but didn’t know about Peterson and would like to know what got their panties in such a twist
I once replied to a Facebook prompt asking what books would be a red flag if you saw them on your date's shelf. I said Jordan Peterson.
The avalanche of vicious, aggressive, and threatening responses I received from men didn't seem to help them realise they were proving my point very effectively.
😂❤
Well to be fair, you weren't their date. You were just some silly goose who talked nonsense so they put you in your place.
@@KLRN-qc7jp I sincerely hope that you're being sarcastic.
@@KLRN-qc7jpgirl bye…
@@ZabivakaPirate69judging their other comments on this video, they are being serious
I'm a man, cis, straight, born and raised in South America, I'm always surprised about how the manosphere and the misogyny are so pushed and accepted in some circles, a friend once said “You can't have female friends, if you can't take them to bed, remove them from your life” the other one said “If you show your feelings, you're weak, and women won't like you”, the problem with these kind of people it's that they buy a doctrine and need it to be right or they won't feel accepted anywhere else because they think everyone is against them, I dodged all that manosphere stuff because I have enough good female friends in my life, I have my mom, the women in my family, and I can see everything they say is objectively a lie
"If you show your feelings, women won't like you" meanwhile, women swooning over Mr Darcy-type subtly emotional men (granted Mr Darcy is also an awkward man but the feelings are very much present and showing still)
I thought the you can't have female friends thing was about not allowing yourself to be "friend zoned".
aka You have no idea what you are talking about, just like this TH-camr.
That's why he still got no girlfriend@@ashotofwhiskey219
The fact that you dodged all that even in the land of machismo is impressive and gives me hope.
Funny how I used to consume pick up artists content as a teenager because I couldn’t « get girls ». Turns out I failed because I wasn’t interested romantically nor sexually, i was just gay 🤷🏽♂️
that was one hell of a plot twist. May you find a guy btw. I'm straight and I'm struggling to date girls
Just say hi,introduce yourself....it will take a while,but approach them as human beings first before romantic partners (maybe try having female friends, eventually someone will rock your world)@@taleseylad1249👊❤️
@@taleseylad1249I just assume you are a young boy. Just think about how many factors play a role: common life goals, 50/50 or traditional roles, which parenting style?, common hobbies, common interests, like same food?, similar set of values? Matching boundaries? Monogam or polygamous? Same Humor? Same attachement style? Imagine for example having a spouse with who you don’t share a single interest & finding an activity together gets painful hard. Or you have vastly different food style & choosing a restaurant or a meal to cook gets hard. Different parenting styles what will confuse potential future kids… different set of values, different religions, different political views…
There are so many factors. So OF COURSE it is hard to find a matching spouse if you have the intent to stay with each other forever.
@@Mieze0503 yes. I am a young lad. How did you know? On a more serious note though, I agree with you. Dating is harder in that sense too.
To be fair, a large portion of pick up artists in the mid to late aughts seem borderline saintly in comparison to the red pill dwellers that came after 2017. The PUA was mostly corny and misguided with a few nuggets of truth dropped in. The manosphere actively dislikes women.
I’m so happy as a man I left the Manosphere years ago, I was legit such a miserable person then
It's just a cycle of bitterness, insecurity, and isolation, isolation because you're isolating yourself from interacting with women as people and men as people.
lol if you like warhammer, I would argue you're still miserable.
Been there, so proud of you for getting out man
@@Anthonybrother no hobbies?
What was the thing that finally sobered you out of there?
My older brother started taking in this kind of content and now he isn't the same as he used to be. He got into the manosphere right after a breakup and now I barely recognise him. He body shames his sisters (youngest 10), makes fun on his brothers for not being 'manly enough' (which are just them not listening to his harmful advice), and his favorite hobby is to bully anybody who is 'weaker' than him (all his little siblings/ people he has authority over, including me). It's hell living near him, and my sisters already stopped talking to him.
edit: Recently he has slowed down on his behavior (does it every 3-4 months), but he still believes all of the manosphere stuff, he just has stopped on showing he does. Tried arguing with him, but when we go to 'what a woman is' he said that I was being gay because I mentioned how some women can't give birth, which doesn't make them 'women' in his eyes.
yeah one of my older brothers has kinda fallen into this stuff. he’s always been a nasty person, but i’m starting to get real tired of it now.
I don’t understand. Why are they nice and then get into the manosphere and become bad people? What changed them?
Sounds like instead of the manosphere, he got his education from Andrew Tate or 4chan
@@MarioMario-vy4bi Simple. They thought life was sunshine and rainbow, and that women were sugar and spice then they got a rude awakening from an experience. The same system that created the nice version of the person also created the bad version. It's quite poetic.
What the heck are your parents doing allowing him to treat such young children this way? Parents should be enforcing visitations to a therapist as it’s unconscionable to allow that behaviour to go unchecked, especially when it’s actively harming other children in the house. Your parents should not just passively ignore this, if possible I would suggest you confront your parents about the gravity of his behaviour and assert that it is their responsibility to protect their other children from him, they cannot claim to love those children if they do not proactively protect them from harm.
It’s one thing for him to self destruct over a post-breakup bruised ego but it’s another thing entirely to try and ruin the lives of children in tandem with his own. He needs to be called out for his shameful behaviour, he’s using vulnerable little girls as a proxy for petty revenge against an ex-girlfriend he’s neurotically refusing to just move on from, moreover he’s using his brothers as a proxy for all his own insecurities, by offloading all his feelings of self hate onto them he evades having to directly experience those emotions about himself.
He needs a metaphorical slap to the face and a hard look in the mirror because he’s sunk far lower than just being the guy who was dumped by his girlfriend, he’s now the guy who tries to emotionally damage little children to feel powerful.
If your parents are open to advice on how to handle him, one suggestion is to force him to verbalise what he’s doing via declarative statements. For example, having to make a declarative statement objectively describing what he’s doing, such as “I am body shaming my 10 year old sister” if he refuses to call it body shaming then he needs to be forced to recount exactly what words he said, from which your parents can assert as meeting the definition of body shaming and to call him out for trying to lie by claiming otherwise.
But they shouldn’t stop there, the next declarative statement has to be about the “why” such as declaring what it makes him feel when he says it. He can’t be allowed to obfuscate it under redpill ideological drivel, he said those words because doing so gives him a specific emotional experience and he has to made to acknowledge it, which in this case is almost certainly going to be about it making himself feel powerful by hurting little girls. Making him speak that aloud as a declarative statement would recontextualise his behaviour into something that is embarrassing and shameful, not something to derive a sense of power from. Having his siblings there to witness also takes away any validity (and thusly, the power) of what he previously said to them.
Honestly, if I was a parent in this situation this would be one of the few things I’d justify taking away unfettered internet access, especially if other attempts to adjust his behaviour failed. Redpill ideology is as malignant as any other cult and thusly necessitates similar intervention strategies to free someone from its grasp.
I find it wild how you get these “edgy” comedians who get cancelled for “telling it like it is” when they’re using the same jokes you’d hear in the 80’s and 90’s, they’re stale and mad they can’t coast on that.
A lot of them are older than that. Rife’s DV jokes would’ve been heard, and looked at as distasteful, even in the 50’s
@@lanasartlife frrr like if you want to be so edgy and different at least make NEW jokes about racism and domestic violence
i am one of the few this video sought to convince. I dont know if anyone will see this comment but as a young white male i want to cry. Everything you explained was everything i’ve experienced for many years now. the pseudo intelligence we collectively feel, the lack of feeling masculine enough, the projection onto women, everything. Its not like this is the first thing to knock me off the right wing pipeline, for many months now ive been learning about anti racism, anti capitalism, anti imperialism, etc. But this really just put it all together. Men really do hate women, and it is only because they see something in women that they dont have, that they want, and are told they cant have. That can and many times is sexual, but much more in many ways personal. Women are obviously feminine and feminity is beautiful with so many fruits. men are told any sign of feminine traits in them makes them less, makes them homosexual (as if thats a bad thing), and the real kicker of all this is that organized religion is one of the main powerhouses for this. That aspect wasnt covered in this video essay, but men are flocking to churches and mosques for any sense of community, acceptance, and domininance. Its very interesting and im only scratching the surface of my experiences.
❤
Much respect you! Good luck with the introspection and detangling.
Real intelligence is the ability to admit when you have out grown stale beliefs. You are a true intellectual. ❤
This that real real shit. Thank you for sharing
good luck with your journey
the dedication omfg. I lost it at the tarot cards. you always go above and beyond with production value and I respect and appreciate the fk out of that
I was thinking the same thing 😂. I was like, damn, she even got the his face on tarot cards lol 😅 👏 😂
“The Fool 🐸” I’m dead
that room is so pretty too
The Liar and The Grifter 😂
My brother asked me if I was still a virgin because of these podcasts and was ‘shocked’ and ‘relieved’ that I still was….. he then proceeded to tell his friends. We don’t talk like we used to.
😮 Im so sorry
I would stop talking to him about anything personal. It is Lilly that he or his "friends" could use it to harm you. Once somebody stops seeing you as a human being he (in this case) will have a lower threshold to cause you harm.
@@LivelyDays23 you should have asked him if he was a virgin too
Sounds like he might've been in the way to set you up with them.
CREEPY. Please talk to your parents, grandparents etc. A regular brother would punch anyone who speaks about her sister virginity. Please make sure you are away from him.
I researched incels and the manosphere for a sociology class. The comments made me nauseous so for this amazing person to actual go in, hats off to them
You'd think that the assertments that, "feminism is the death of the western world," and, "Allowing women to vote," was a joke on the manosphere, but no, those men actually say that.
Can you define hypergamy? Now, can you acknowledge it exists?
If so....is there a problem teaching men what that word is?
That's ALL IM ASKING, this isn't even a defense of manosphere but those 3 questions specifically.
@@Gameruin3rwhat are you looking to get out of this question? None of what this person commented referenced hypergamy, or anything of the sort, but you feel the need to discuss it as if that's all the manosphere teaches (which it doesn't), which makes it clear you have an ulterior motive to your comments. Maybe watch the video you're commenting under and come back.
@@scream_kinh614why do you think incels and the manosphere exist? Most male feminist allies are incels btw, while non gen z mgtows are mostly divorced men with kids, which ARE NOT INCELS.
Teaching men hypergamy, a huge concept they teach in manosphere, isn't misogynistic...it's a factual behavioral pattern in women that men should learn and adapt to.
Let's say your sitting at a restaurant chilling. A 5'4 bald obese man poorly dressed enters, notices you, and unfortunately you can tell HE IS INTERESTED IN YOU. He's THINKING ABOUT APPROACHING AND FLIRTING WITH YOU..
IN THAT MOMENT, do you wish that HE KNOWS HYPERGAMY and adapts to it? Or has no idea wtf that means, and runs game?
What did you learn about them?
As a woman in a male dominated working field, I spent a lot of time with them, I have more male friends than women but, it makes me see the lengths of the machismo and patriarchy has in my culture, in my work.
Multiple times I had to hear about my male friends talking about a women in such a disgusting manner, or about how young their girl of the moment is... for years I stayed quiet until I just had to speak about it, maybe they were great friends to me, respected my boundaries and 'protect me' but why should friendship be the difference between me, a woman, and them, women.
Some of them didn't take it kindly, others seem to be a little bit more aware about their ways.
Hurts that one of those guys (no longer my friend, but still a friend of a friend, sadly) after me speaking up multiple times about what he said told me: "Why do you have to remind me that you're a girl? Thought you were one of us" and then treat me like trash... like now that he 'remembers' I'm a woman now I get the shitty treatment? Why is me being a woman such a defining factor after years of friendship?!
Anyways, even if I'm closer to men, I still fear them. Even if my friends are there to 'protect me' I'm always alert... because it seems that you are never safe.
Sorry to hear that.
I even feel guilty to a degree, bc I also had female colleagues where I put some kind of "one of the bros; therefore not a 'real woman'" stamp on.
Hopefully your work environment is better now.
@@EinFelsbrocken Thanks!, it's getting slowly better, and my closest friends are more aware and trying to be better :)
And at this point everything is so ingrained, that during my younger years I was proud of be 'one of the boys'.
The first step is always recognizing our toxic patterns :D
Edit just to add: and I think is better to see friends just like friends, understand that we have our differences but moving a person to a 'better level: be one of the guys' is not the solution. But little by little :D
Anecdotal stories that say absolutely nothing. If what these co-workers of yours said was so horrible you would surely speak of it here, but you yourself recognizes deep down that it was a mundane, inconsequential thing which if you bring here not many people would take seriously. This is also revealed by your coworker complaining to you - and rightfully so - that you kept reminding him that you are a woman. If you are about equality, why do you need to remind your coworkers that you are a woman? Shut up and do your work like men do. If you like it your style, then do it your style, these men won't complain but they won't bother about you either. And that is your fear, i.e. that men stop "bothering" about you. It is all about you and the attention you get from men at the end of the day. You are just a narcissist, that is all. Nothing surprising.
You feel "never safe" with men. Fine. You are right. However in reality a man has 10 times more chances being beaten / mistreated by another man as well as 10 times more chances of being misteated by another woman than a woman risks being mistreated by another woman - and I do not include cat-fights and silly female antagonisms here but serious offenses such as stealing money, false paternity and murder.
@@LuneaDark what did they do?
Honey. I don‘t know how to say it but those men very likely talked the same about you when you weren’t around. You observed yourself that they talked poorly about women behind those women‘s backs. In their faces they were the bf who loved them. The same way they are your friends in your face. But behind your back, they are just men. You aren’t an exception in their eyes.
the manosphere is so wild to me because all these guys give out "dating" advice but barely any of them have long-term relationships they can point to as a "see, this works!!!"
so, like, based on their own life experiences, their methods fail.
They give out advice on getting laid, not dating. They have said many times themselves that long-term relationships are a loss for men because the men in question just get financially and emotionally exploited, then cheated on and divorced.
@@PaulClipMasterso they’re losers
@@PaulClipMaster I mean, except for the fact that they *also* say they plan to get married and have kids eventually. Myron has certainly said that.
But they tell their followers that because a dude in a good relationship is not going to listen to them anymore. They have no incentive to help them.
@@becca_5649 Depends on how you define loser. They have a large following, heavy influence, and high income. Staying single or only being interested in sex does not make someone a loser. I would call them toxic.
@@manderly33 Talk is cheap. They could just be saying that. Doesn't make it true. Especially if actions don't match.
One of the biggest minor ironies is them using blue and red pill--referencing a movie created by a Trans woman (a population they hate)
TWO trans women, in fact!😂
I think both siblings that made the movie are trans women. I think the irony is hilarious
And the estrogen pill that was given to trans women at the time was red 😂
@@Anthonybrothernice ad-hoc rationalization, what flavor cope is that?
@@Anthonybrother... Normal?
As someone who fell into the manosphere for a large part of my teens, this video is a great representation of what I went through, and I am so grateful for those who helped me leave that space
Proud of you for getting out 🖤
Glad you made it out. Hope you’re much happier.
I too came so close to becoming an angry misogynist incel in my teens for a variety of reasons (religion, family politics, etc). Thankfully a girl in a far higher social strata with a strong personality took interest in me, and that first relationship deprogrammed me. It really was as simple as realizing women were normal, fellow humans. From then on I never had trouble with interacting with women, I realized I could just be myself. Unfortunately so many guys never reach that epiphany.
I shudder to think who I might have been without that first relationship. I will always owe a lot to her and her no-bullshit perspective on life.
Hey congrats, its a hard rabbit hole to pull out of so thats rad that you were able too. I wish you nothing but the best brother 💯💯
proud of you, all the best x
Same and I'm happy for you
As a man who has dealt with depression and had my turn listening to Jordan Peterson, I appreciate the empathy you have approaching this subject especially considering your own personal traumas, I happily smacked the like and subscribe buttons
Everything I've learned about fresh and fit has been against my will.
LMFAO RIGHT
Lmfaoooooo accurate
TH-cam be recommending you random videos making you suffer from the bs.
Same, Cause youtube keep pushing lefty propaganda
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 yeah
Matt Rife's view that the only reason for men to care about women's rights is to get laid is both disturbing and just incredibly sad. Does he have no one in his life, no friends or family members, who genuinely care about his wellbeing and do nice things for him without expecting something back?
Right? I was reading other comments and according to their experience, dehumanisation starts at home: manosphere "activists" are terrorising their siblings to try and force them into patriarchal gender boxes. I'm older so I remember incels forums from the 2010s, where brothers were bragging about sexually harassing their sisters.
💔💔💔
He's gonna see the redpill cult grift has a 2-3 year shelf life like the other redpill grifters such a Fresh and Fit, Sneako, Donovan Sharpe (who openly admitted he's not doing anymore redpill content because he's not making money off of it), and Oshay Duke Jackson
@@Chuck_EL Dont forget Pearl Hannah Davies!
One of the big reasons why the manosphere exists is that a massive amount don’t have someone who genuinely care about their wellbeing without expecting something back. You say that rhetorically like of course he has someone like that but no many many men don’t.
We just have to admit that while patriarchy against women is still a big problem we have meaningfully improved things. How patriarchy helps women and hurts men is very strong.we have been able to expand what it means to be a successful women but we have not for men. Even as women make more money than ever, women still expect men in relationships to make more money. Women don’t like emotional men, etc
@@minabotieso6944and this sucks, we need to change the culture, but you can't just write off women because of problems with society.
"Jordan Peterson knows words" is the highest compliment I'm willing to pay that man too.
What do you mean with "knows"? What do you mean with "words"? 😂
Exactly words
Why is that?
@@thenoseyskepticeverything else feels like punching down. Describing JBP for what he is would be like making fun of someone for being poor
he definitely knows word salad
As a cishet white man, learning the truth of patriarchy and working to unlearn my biases is honestly so personally fulfilling. Not to center myself or say that feminism making me feel good is more important than its actual goals lmao but I want to address and dispel the notion that being a male feminist is some kind of masochism, sacrificing my own happiness and interests for the sake of women, or worse, just to be more "appealing" to women. It's not.
I am far happier and more secure in my identity than the manosphere could ever make me feel. It's allowed me to pick and choose the masculine things that actually resonate with me (e.g. i like working out), which parts I'd personally prefer to leave behind (e.g. a lot of men's fashion being boring as hell), and which parts I *need* to leave behind (e.g. the violence and entitlement). It's enabled me to form a version of manhood that truly feels like me rather than psychologically disfiguring myself to fit a version of manhood assigned to me.
I'm not naive enough to think I've simply opted out of patriarchy or that my job of examining my biases is over, but fighting patriarchy, not defining myself by its standards, and trying not to abuse the privileges it affords me have made me both more moral and more fulfilled. Two things the people supposedly supporting "men's rights" could never give me.
You're an AI bot right? Only an AI bot can write this garbage.
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255 Calm down, snowflake
Very interesting comment
This is so good that it looks like an essay. Or AI. But anyway, I hope it’s genuine !
@nuage9538 I'm not a bot lmao, just like writing and this video
"no free attention" way to tell the room you don't have any friends 😭
they're literally so starved for friendly interactions that they have to ration it... it'd be sad if it weren't so dangerous
@@Romanticoutlawit’s kind of a paradox that if you guys would just be nice to them they wouldn’t be dangerous. Tons of them are too far gone, no matter what we do they cant be helped, but enough can be helped. Men have issues too like loneliness. We need to care.
@@minabotieso6944personally, I do care, quite a bit actually. Not everyone has the strength and energy to put themselves out there to actively fight the spread of the manosphere but there are people who are fighting, reaching out with kindness and compassion for those who it's not too late for.
@@minabotieso6944 Ofc people need to care about male loneliness, most people don't deny that. But you can't keep being nice to people who behave like a-holes or outright dangerous individuals. The irony would be that because they don't accept female friends, they are not only lonely friendship-wise, but also romance-wise.
Most women will not approach someone who sees them as just a body to "conquer" or a piece of meat to feast on.
@minabotieso6944 This is giving "just be nice to racists 🥺" I'm tired of giving grace to people who cheer on violence and harassment
I think me being a trans man saved a friend from going down the pipeline? I asked him how he can be so supportive of me being trans (constantly affirming that I'm a man even though I'm a chunky dude who plays video games, loves cats and sews) while thinking he needs to adhere to Masculinity? It broke his brain for a bit and he is slowly healing. Nothing to this story but just look out for the bros in your life, this shit's everywhere.
❤ thanks for Mankind ❤
@Zachaboyman men need to look out for eachother and call eachother out more than ever, it's great you could do that for your friend
And that's why the pipeline tries to erase and demonise trans people so badly. You're all literal proof that their ideology is BS and they can't handle that.
Has his life improved in any tangible ways? Or is he just more palpable for you?
@@blacksocrates1well, it sounds like he avoided becoming part of a hateful group of people who see enemies everywhere they don't exist (see Peterson's paranoia about the commies lurking in every corner).
But more importantly, this measure was preventative. The friend didn't get worse through joining a bunch of freaks. But you're right, hopefully the friend learns to be more empathetic for others and not just OP
Another issue that I have is that they say that providing is considered masculine. But they never exile men from their community who are not providers Instead they're gonna tell women to pick a better man while still lying themselves with the type of men who don't take care of their children.
Men can and often do provide, but that in itself isn't a masculine trait. Beta incels provide.
A man who doesn't provide doesnt have his masculinity card taken, so manosphere has no reason to kick him out.
But men having to be a provider is a very big part of patriarchy. The manosphere people are dumb and bad by definition but the question is do women and feminism support this idea of patriarchy and the answer is yes they do
If you want men to always be the providers then you are really in favor of the patriarchy and that’s bad. It’s good that they don’t strictly hold themselves to the patriarchy like this. Most of these man sphere guys are young guys with no shot at gf let alone kids
@@minabotieso6944 did you read what they wrote? They never said they supported men being providers, they said these manosphere bros think men are providers, masculine and patriarchal. But still act opposite to their beliefs
@@tracyracy honestly I doubt they even read it. They're just regurgitating some talking points throughout this comment section.
"I believe people are worthy of rescue AND of change". I couldn't agree more. I'm glad you're using your platform to share that message.
jordan peterson in a nutshell: “how can you say you don’t like me because first you have to define ‘you’ and ‘don’t’ and ‘like’ and ‘me’”
lmfaooo that’s facts
Spot on……jeeze you are good
"We don't know what 'you' and 'me' even mean, really. We can't know! Anyone who talks about 'other people' is just a post-modern neomarxist who thinks they understood some French writer! Ayn Rand had it right! Self interest is everything because we can only recognize ourselves, if we are lucky, and what benefits us should be self evident. Anything else is a mental disorder-the Dragon of Chaos!"
💅🏼 no notes
Obligatory "Dragon of Chaos" somewhere in there too
This is a side note but i love how when shanespear is looking forward, the pink light looks like a bright blush.
YES OMG i genuinley thought it was blush for a while 😭
@@heartsforbrenda me too !!
I thought the same thing! I was like woah is it blush? Is it the light? Is it blush AND the light? 🧐 lmfaoo
Lol I was thinking that too!!
It is not really your business women, is it not enough that you invented feminism and spread ideas that emasculating men and distort the roles of the sexes in society and relationships ?? We need someone to talk against the modern women BS
Love how the manosphere is just a mini representation of the patriarchy. Everyone eventually gets hurt by the system, no matter if they're a target or a participant.
That’s like saying the people who are talking about society are a representation of society lol.
But we don’t care about the men hurt by the patriarchy. We only care about women
The manosphere slowly encourages further isolation until the only people these guys have is these internet gurus. Which is preferred for them, if these guys are loyal to only them they'll buy any course and book they put out and feed into their self centeredness.
@@caniborrowapencil5160 you missed the point
💯but also they identified a wrong enemy and missed the real puppet master
This comment section is objectively hilarious. It ticks every mark. Its crazy just how predictable misogyny is. So many men will hate watch videos like these, over and over again, and never learn, just be angry. Its like, the definition of insanity.
It is the definition of insanity.
@@shainahernandez5492it isn’t. Please google it.
I doubt they even watch the full video though, they probably clicked just to make their edgy replies to the comments
Haven't finished watching yet, but I do want to say:
When my dad was working for a university in Canada, a nearby convention hall was hosting a talk by Peterson. The university, being in close proximity, agreed to the convention hall's request to use half of their parking lots as overflow parking. My dad, upon hearing this, became _furious._ He sent a letter to the university, HIS EMPLOYER, and called them out as being hypocrites for making all their employees take sensitivity training upon hiring but refusing to stand their ground against bigotry and hate speech in the real world. He signed it "The proud parent of a non-binary child" (which would be me) and... I just love him so much.
He no longer works for the university, idk if their refusal to renew his contract or rehire him to a diff position internally was related to this.
Bless you and your father
That uni was lucky to have your dad. Their loss
This is ridiculous. Even (especially!) people we strongly disagree with have a right to speak. I have a right to hear what idiots sound like for my own self. Censorship is a short-sighted, fascist solution to a complex problem.
Your father sounds like an amazing and brave person.
Your father has failed you
My brother is part of the manosphere. When you described who they target, you described him perfectly. He wants a girlfriend so bad, but struggles to get one. I've tried to advise him that he could make friends with some women naturally and then maybe a romantic spark might occur. (The conversation was more complex than that but that was the gist). But he said he doesn't want to be friends with women. I think that's a very good insight into how they think. I feel sorry for him, because my spouse and I are best friends and I don't think my brother will ever get to feel the same connection that we have.
Right after posting this comment I got to the part of the video where you talked about how they view women that way, as sex objects, not people to be friends with.
I am an incel that somehow got this in his front page, if that makes you not wanna read the rest of this post that's okay. I just want to give my two cents on this based on what I've seen in the community and what I've experienced myself.
From an anecdotal point of view, trying to befriend them to go into a relationship often doesn't work out for non conventionally attractive men, you can see that both through the amount of incels saying the same thing AND the amount of posts made online by women complaining about a male friend or best friend asking them out.
I also want to touch on the "Don't want to be friends with women" topic. I think it is unfair to regard this as your brother or anyone else just seeing women as sexual objects.
As a man whenever I've approached a girl (for any reason) there's always the stigma that anyone present, or even the girl herself could think it's just for a romantic or even sexual reason.
Now you could say that men deserve to be treated this way due to historical precedence that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change the reality that me, your brother and other incels don't want to be judged just for an attempt to approach a girl for any reason. Especially if a person's unattractive which adds the extra stigma of people thinking you're very unaware/arrogant for approaching a girl
I'd say your brother doesn't want to be friends with women because just trying to approach a woman is a whole hurdle that realistically won't be all that different from just having a male friend let alone potentially lead to a relationship.
As for "men viewing women as sex objects and not people to be friends with" Bear with me here as while what I say might sound a bit entitled at first that is not what I want to implicate at all.
As a man the interests and hobbies I have are dominated by men, I've never had any girl try to be friends with me, show romantic or sexual interest in me And they shouldn't have to. It's not a woman's job to make sure a guy isn't feeling left out. But what I do want to say is this has led to an alienation from women where I can't really engage with them in anyway other than sexually. I can't engage with them romantically because they don't want me (which is like I said their prerogative. They don't have to want me.) I can't engage with them through my interests because it's male dominated (And before you ask, yes I do have interests that take me outside of my home and engage with other people in the real world, not just online gaming) I can't engage with them as a friend because they aren't interested in me. The only thing connecting me to the opposite gender is my sexuality.
And like I said, this sounds entitled but I don't mean it that way, I want to reiterate that I'm aware it's not a woman's responsibility to engage with me in any way. I just want to explain that a lot of incels that you say only view women as a sexual object do so because there's no other avenue for them to engage women with, some of them absolutely are abhorrent people who just think all women are fleshlights but there are a lot of people that aren't entitled that just can't engage with women in any other way than sexually.
@@ThrowAway-t8d I just want to ask out of interest, dont you think when girls offer guys to be friends its also considered a romantic advance most of the time? And theres so many not conventionally attractive girls, which makes people consider them entirely invisible. Do you guys ever think about women who aren't conventionally beautiful and feminine?
As a girl who mainly interacts with/prefers the company of other girls I do get where you’re coming from here. However I do actually have platonic and working relationships with men through political and community organising. I find this more comfortable as us having a common goal/belief system that’s more important than just socialising takes out most of the awkwardness. This is really important cause it’s allowed me to unlearn a lot of the fucked up gender/sexual dynamics we’ve all learned and just generally have less social anxiety.
Again, women seriously need to learn to talk to the men in their life.
That young man related to you is expressing a serious concern.
Your response is, "Make friends with them, idk."
And then, when he doesn't want your poor advice, you essentially say something is wrong with him.
Of course, he's going to go running to Andrew Tate and Fresh and Fit.
They offer more concrete and substantive advice for the problem he is experiencing.
At least, in the eyes of people looking for that advice.
It's like a parent who can't answer the questions of their child, but who gets upset when that child goes looking for answers in the wrong place.
@@kinrateia Referring to the part about girls offering to be friends.
It definitely can be viewed that way but I don't think it is a fair comparison to make.
In the current landscape of gender stereotypes it is a general expectation that for a romantic advance the onus is on the man to make the first move. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, hell I would prefer it to be the other way around but regardless it is an undeniable truth that our current society expects a man to make the first move and a result of this any attempt to approach a woman, not even for friendship but to ask a question or make a request can be viewed as something made out of a romantic or sexual desire.
And while it is definitely true that this very expectation can make some people can interpret a girl approaching a man for friendship as "Woah, she wants him so bad she's willing to approach first" You have to admit that this is a lot less likely to be the case and that society generally doesn't expect girls to approach first and thus doesn't view attempts to approach as romantic or sexual.
There's also the fact that like I said, an ugly guy approaching a girl can be viewed by others as him being arrogant or not being self aware of his own lack of appeal that is a lot less likely to happen to a girl from my experience.
Referring to the part about whether if we think about women who aren't conventionally attractive or feminine.
It is an undeniable truth that parts of the incel community, specifically the entitled people who see women as fleshlights that I mentioned in my first reply absolutely do think that they deserve the most feminine and beautiful girl there is regardless of their appearance.
HOWEVER.
I believe that the idea that every incel just wants a girl that's out of their league is a bad faith interpretation of incel fantasies.
It is normal for person who was deprived of something to fantasize about the most desirable kind of the thing they've been deprived of.
ie. A poor person fantasizing about being rich rather than having a low but stable income, A starving person fantasizing about the most delicious food he can think of rather than a regular nutritious meal.
(I want to state that I don't want to objectify women and when I say most desirable, I mean most desirable in the eyes of the person. I'm not saying that there's an objective desirability standard that women should have to fit into.)
And I think the idea that every incel desires only the most beautiful and feminine women comes from the bad faith interpretation of this normal fantasy. Now this doesn't at all justify any sort of entitlement from the community but at the same time I don't think it is fair to act like a person only desires the best there is because they fantasized about it.
Me personally I've had crushes on girls that a lot of my male friends considered ugly/not feminine. I even got made fun of for liking a girl in highschool who went to the gym and built up muscle and kept her hair short so yes I'd say that there's definitely a part of the incel community who thinks about girls who aren't conventionally attractive that people generally aren't aware of because they interpret normal fantasies as concrete desires
My friend got super depressed and fell into this rabbit hole, he got super toxic, he would berate me, say the most sexist shit ever etc. Eventually I started distancing myself cause he was so exhausting to be around. thankfully he got a bit better with depression, got therapy and ended up leaving the incel shit. so good ending ig
He apologized?
Don't take him back as a friend
@@EmyN yes but like eh
I hope he continues on his path of healing and I hope your doing ok mentally
He had you as female friend that's the first problem.
As a straight white 40 year old man who was briefly lured by the MRA movement almost a decade ago, this video hits the nail right on the head about how these guys appeal to men. I'm glad I stumbled across this channel. Subscribed!
"you shouldn't vote cause you don't have any skin in the game." ah yes. women famously aren't a part of society.
Laughs in Roe v Wade
@@psychicbyinternet lichrally
Women originally didn't want to vote out of fear of being eligible to be drafted. After selective service was dropped for women, then they were willing to vote
@@petervizzini4006 Let's see what happens if the draft comes back.
@@nullpoint3346 Birthrates would skyrocket
“Thank you for another brilliant upload, Shanspeare” we all say in unison
Thank you for another brilliant upload, Shanspeare
Thank you for another brilliant upload, Shanspeare
thank you for another brilliant upload, shanspeare! o/2
Thank you for another brilliant upload, Lady Shanspeare~ ❤
Thank you for another brilliant upload, Goddess of TH-cam, Shanspeare!
my confession is that i didn't know or understand who jordan peterson was because my dumbass kept thinking they meant the author james paterson and i'd go, "now what the hell do you mean that old man that wrote all of those books is an incel????"
this is so iconic actually 😭
😂
LMAO NO BC I LOVE JAMES BOOKS😂😂😂😂
😂😅😂
@@lanorte1 thanks for commenting because now I'm laughing all over again🤣🤣🤣
So happy that you brought up men being SA'd when they are young and being culturally brainwashed into thinking they just won a prize. It's gross and needs to stop.
Well the feminists refuse to hold the school system accountable where that overwhelmingly happens. Feminists just spout off a bunch of empty words
@@1OnlyGot7I saw a post about a 16-year-old boy being abused by his teacher and half that comment section was men saying "lucky guy wish it could've been me". Wtf does that tell you about feminists?
@@1OnlyGot7Also, most rapists male and female don't see jail time because it's a hard crime to prosecute and most people are too ashamed to come forward.
@@audreytwo what does this have to do with feminists? It's the patriarchy that normalizes this stuff...
@@savannahbxoxo I was responding to someone who claimed that feminists don't take male SA seriously. Seems their comment was deleted.
I was raised in a fundementalist Baptist Church/ cult and the toxic masculinity is heartbreaking. You see vibrant little boys be told "stop being so sensitive" "boys don't cry" etc. it's really sad
"vibrant little boys" is such an icky phrase, not surprised you want to keep them infantalized by encouraging crying and hypersensitivity
@@hello-rq8kf well there children? So complimenting or making any positive comments about a child who is Man infantilizing? What's so offensive about the word vibrant? Crying is natural human behavior, not processing your emotions will make someone bitter and sad like you.
@@hello-rq8kf calling it hypersensitivity when it's just emotional maturity and regulation 💀 I'm sorry you weren't allowed to be emotionally vulnerable and cared for growing up. You didn't deserve that but neither do the next generation of boys deserve to be raised emotionally stunted and repressed.
It is
@@hello-rq8kfhow? You we’re probably once vibrant, all children are naturally until they become jaded by societal expectations
Quick note: There ARE subcategories for women, incels just tend to say a lot of women are Stacie’s. Stacie’s are the desirable and dominant women while Beckie’s are average women.
Real "Stacies" are as dominant as Andrew Tate is dominant.
They are toxic women trying to become the oppressor.
Difference is average and unattractive women are still desirable.
Of course they used the average names of teenage girls in the early 2000’s. 😂
And Stacie’s mom has got it going on.
My last GF was called Beckie and she was awesome!
The patriarchy has always reminded me of a parent that will never unconditionally love you, it just tolerates you once you can conform to it. Sometimes you think if you try just a bit harder you can get it's love but not really because It was never made to love you or see you as a person.
This causes you to never be able to be happy while trying to conform, u can only be you after u try to stop conforming.
I’ve always struggled articulating the unique grasp patriarchy has on women that you don’t see as much in other oppressive systems that cause the unique way women are trapped within rather than under. I think this does a rather beautiful job
Feminists have always reminded of bitter teenage girls who wanna blame their shitty life on their parents. They manifest this manufactured reality in their head where their parents are neglectful an abusive and don't care about their feelings, overall they lack the means to confront themselves and sort out their own problems so they try to find someone to blame for their lack of competence. This is why they become rebellious, they're so bitter and angry with their life that they think their only way out of the endless stress is to act out and rebel against the people they blame all their problems on.
Imagine being such a loser, and want to be oppressed so badly, that you think there is a patriarchy. There is no patriarchy. There will never be a patriarchy.
There is however, the problem of the matriarchy.
that's a great analogy (and quite personal for me lol)
@@lindensalter6713Women are the least oppressed people in western society. The obsession privileged women have with being “oppressed” is rather bizarre, especially when ignoring actual men’s oppression.
These men criticize women all the time but complain when women do the same....
Women complaining about men complaining about them complaining.
Humans are just lame dude.
"Women haven't created anything"
A woman created him...
You don't know ?
According to the "manosphere", we do not create human beings, we simply bare the human beings that men created 😂
As if they could "create" human beings without our seeds. Pathetic
"No but you see, what childbirth is truly reliant on is the sperm that's made its way to the egg. Without the molecular directives issued by the sperm, a womb produces nothing. Just like how women achieve nothing particularly significant unless told what to do." - Ben Shapiro, probably
Right winger shitty gotcha about women only being biological incoming
I mean yeah, it takes two to tango. But then the same mentality expects child rearing, one of the most important types of leadership, from those who they deem unworthy of being leaders. Kinda silly.
That's her biggest mistake. I'm not GOD. I don't make man. Tell them to make them themselves. My womb is close. Busy loving me. 🎉
If they refuse to use women's inventions they shouldn't be posting at all. The first computer programmer is considered to be Ada Lovelace
Yeah but Charles Babbage had to build a computer first!
Check and mate!
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255which he designed with the help of ada lovelace :3 ❤️also he didn't "build" it, the analytical engine (aka "first computer program" which they both worked on) was never built.
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255so you can own a PC but not use it cool cool
@@mindyourownbusinessgoogle9255 Babbage didn't succeed in building the first computer - he died before it was completed. Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace worked and collaborated together, with Lovelace designing the first software based on Babbage's prototype of the first hardware
@@data-dork
Yes and?
Did he or did he not originated the concept of a digital programmable computer? Did he or did he not design a "calculating machine" called the Difference Engine before he even met Lovelace?
So what's your point apart from going "actuasshuly" ?
Man invented the machine, woman coded the software. Her work could not have existed without his work and his work may have been very different if not for her work.
They came together and accomplished something...together!
Instead of being total idiots about it and playing the "but women" card , can we not just all agree both parties worked together and changed the world.....as they always did? Shes not diminished in any way shape or form.
The part about how we view men and sex is fascinating, because for so long I've noticed on news channels reporting about boys being SA-ed by older women specifically, is met with comments from men that the victim is "so lucky" and "I wish that happened to me when I was his age."
Same with females praising and crushing on serial killers
Yeah, and when there is a report on a girl being SA-ed by an older man they are very quick to "uhhh but if the roles were inverted no one would bat an eye"
@@esg721 Well, they are right. Statistically men get sexually assaulted as much as women, but that is almost never talked about. The streets are plastered with ads about women sexual assault awareness. Never seen one for men. I guess thats okay, men are disposable toys after all.
@@gtfooffmyaccount8253 "Females"??? Lol okay incel.
I'm a guy. A few years ago, a woman in my hiking group recommended that I check out Jordan Peterson because I "might benefit from listening to him"
I still cringe whenever I think about it 😅
I am so happy that you ended up here and not on ~the other side of youtube~
Was once dating a guy who fell down the lobster man hole and it was hard to watch. I‘m glad I left.
Yikes...what was she on
Are you sure "she" wasn't Jordan Peterson in drag?
@@lanorte1😭😭
Your bedroom is still dirty
I see way too many men falling for the manosphere crap and it’s so disappointing. As an educator, I worry about my students listening and being groomed by these people into becoming hateful.
Then provide an alternative for them. If you don’t have an alternative then the man sphere is the only place for them to go to talk about men’s issues
@minabotieso6944 it's a societal issue.
@@Beth4nyI agree it’s a societal issue. One person doesn’t have to totally change society to provide an alternative but complaining about the man sphere has made no progress after years and years now. Let’s do something that actually makes some progress
@@minabotieso6944 critism. It's criticism.. wtf? We should never stop discussing issues because we don't see the impact right this second. If we did we wouldn't even have the right to vote.
What are you doing for these young men?
@@minabotieso6944The alternative is reality. In a LOT of countries women literally have no rights. They are posessions. And even in the West women get killed by men pretty regularly.
Men have pretty much owned women for thousands of years and can't even handle seeing a woman in a movie or game. It is pretty pathetic. Real men don't feel threatened by women, but boys do.
Saying "academics" while you put Dave Rubin on screen is funnier than Matt's entire career lol
and your competencies for evaluation are?
You mean _qualifications._ Competence is a measure of someone's skill level in combination with their ability to preform that skill. So, even if you want to pretend that's what you meant, you used the plural, while listing only one aspect that competency could be shown.
@@BabaJaga
@@MiddlePath007 Congrats on nitpicking a non-native speaker's English. Not quite the "gotcha" moment you think it is lol
@furia2472 you have a close friendship with BabaJaga up there? I didn't read anything about a non native speaker. What I read was a comment that suggested someone wasn't allowed to make a joke.
I don't know Dave Rubin or the Matt guy, I have no opinion on them either way. I do know when people use words they don't understand. Those people show themselves as not caring about the reality of what they say. Instead, they need to convey contempt with superiority, regardless of the veracity, in order to shame their adversaries in hopes of silencing any other opinion.
BTW, if you don't speak English as a native language, you can just speak in your native tongue. Google offers to translate comments. This isn't the stone age
@@MiddlePath007 You know, you could've just said "I'm an obnoxious douchebag" and saved yourself some time
so much admiration and respect for you. not only for your talent and intellect but for your ability to submerge yourself in the manosphere and come out sexier and smarter
I second this sentiment, Shanosphere Big Beautiful Brain supremacy
my ex once told me he liked me to look a certain way, dolled up and making personal effort about my appearance, so i tried to own clothes he found attractive and wore make up every day, even to sleep, and always had my hair done.
i asked that same ex to please buy a new pair of pants (his were tattered with holes in the seat and several years old) and to wear one of the button up shirts he owned to dinner some time. he threw a tantrum so big it continued well after i left him.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 THOSE men have the nerve to call anyone fem presenting a delicate flower 🤣🤣🤣🤣
you wore makeup to sleep? Those poor poor pillows done nothing to deserve this.
so glad you left his ass 😭❤❤
After transitioning, my wife lost one of her oldest friends because he’d been suckered in by Rogan & Peterson.
It never ceases to piss me off how the manosphere has broken so many families & friend groups.
Clearly not a person you want to call friend.
It’s not the ideology that breaks up friend groups, it’s the “friends” that can’t stand the thought of their “friend” holding different opinions and cutting them off.
@@thenoseyskeptic Acting as if this stuff is just a "different opinion" is crazy. A "different opinion" is preferring the Mets over the Yankees. Holding hateful, bigoted beliefs about a group of people (especially if you apart of said group) is lot more extreme than an "opinion". It is insane to me that you'd think that someone should continually associate with another person who believes, at best, that a core part of their identity is wrong, and, at worst, that their identity is vile and dangerous.
@@thenoseyskepticWhy would be friends with someone that hates you?
@@mypantsarefilledwithbeans6508 you’re assuming that anyone that holds beliefs remotely right leaning is a bigot that hates you. The follow up question would be, what if someone is left-leaning? Does that make them inherently moral or better? That’s what’s wrong and unhelpful.
It’s always been so funny to me that anti-feminists seem to think feminists can’t cook. My purple hair and refusal to worship another person based on their plumbing don’t prevent me from being able to put an epic meal together, maintain a sourdough starter or grow my own herbs.
I love to cook, and I love to collect cookbooks (newer ones as well as vintage). My dad loves to cook, he was a Veitnam war vet, taught my sister and I woodworking when we were kids, encouraged us to be self sufficient, and he knew how to use a sewing machine. My dad admits that mom raised me and my sister but he was supportive of women not adhering to gender norms.
@@biteofdogI recommend Cooking Yesteryear but I also warn you there are some out there recipes in there, the cooking of the past could get unhinged
fr. i’m a devout feminist, but i can also sew, mend clothes, crochet, knit, cook, bake, garden, and decorate
@@nharber9837 everyone who can't cook is strange to me
Anti-feminists just like to think they are "not like other women" ... Sounds as if anti-feminism is closely connected to pick-me behaviour, which totally makes sense to me. 😅
Like, as a feminist, I have equality in mind: Why would I not want to cook, if I enjoy eating good, like everyone else? I expect my partner to do the cooking sometimes or to do the dishes or other housework, too, i.e. "share the load": *That* is what makes the difference.
IMO, anti-feminists show their black-and-white mindset with such views, because in their minds, feminists want to suppress men in the same way and just switch roles. 🙄
Let's be honest, if someone can't say a very basic word, even when they are very capable of doing so, and you have respectfully asked them to say that word because it makes you feel more comfortable. That person doesn't really care or respect you in any way
Domination, the producer of this video cautioned against domination. I will not yield, I will not submit.
And that's fair enough. Transgenders are the ones who misgender themselves, just .. stop the cap.
Lmao or they’re just dumb as a bag o rocks. Like the way that crusty old man was damn near on the edge of tears blubbering about how “I won’t use the pronouns I won’t!” Like a whiny lil anime protagonist had me rolling off my bed 🫨
@@rayyf69 uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Idk Peterson might be right, I liked her idea of using whatever words I personally want of her
You are KILLING IT with these researched, thorough, well-made, comedic commentaries and it's SO necessary to have platforms like yours to help people question their non-sensical beliefs!! Thank you QUEEN for the work you do
"Not letting me misgender someone is violating my human rights" - "Doctor" Jordan Peterson
It's technically true tho
I don't get how people like you can completely ignore the concept of free speech
@@henriettebopda5895 it's not something he got at birth though. It's a term used between academics, and I'm not one of his colleagues, so I'll call him Jordan only.
@@coolpilot5694 It's hilarious that people think free speech has anything to do with any of this. Free speech protects American citizens from persecution by their government when they are not breaking laws, and nothing else. What the manosphere wants is freedom from consequences, while also demanding personal responsibility.
@@coolpilot5694 ''not letting me be racist is violating my human rights''. do you NOW get how idiotic you sound or do you still think hate speech should be allowed..?
I learned once from a college guest lecture about the Barbie movie that spoke about the difference between femininity and masculinity. They argued that women have been able to redefine femininity outside of the context of the patriarchy and men have not been able to because masculinity depends on the oppression of someone else, whether it be the other sex/gender or otherwise. That was such an eye-opening moment that I always think about it when thinking about this conversation of the "manosphere"
That's false hogwash
That's false hogwash
Masculinity depends on opression? And someone got that out of a Barbie movie of all things? You know the movie that parodies the manosphere ideas and has the main character beg to become a manservant?
They should spend some time around gay subcultures before they talk about how you can't redefine masculinity
If masculinity depends on oppression, then it is inherently and irredeemably toxic. When critics of feminism complain about masculinity being described in such terms, they're mocked - by feminists of course - and the claim is denied. Here we are, then. At least this one lecturer definitely believes all masculinity to be inherently and irredeemably toxic. The least damned thing you can do is acknowledge that this 1) is a real thing that happened and 2) is a real cause for men to dislike the underlying ideology.
Not you describing Jordan Peterson as a Lana Del Rey music video reject 🤣
he literally fits that image though 😭😭 "my old man is a bad man" looking ahh
it’s so accurate tho 💀
@@chaewonsrosesYour comment is the funniest thing I have ever read in a long time, thank you I almost bust a lung
Hilarious
@@chaewonsroses LMAOO
Thank you for your hard work creating this sort of content. I'm a university professor and unfortunately some of my students sometimes reference Peterson or even worse, fellows like Fresh and Fit. Your help in decoding the manosphere is invaluable. Furthermore, my wife and I tried to watch Rife's "comedy" special and only made it about ten minutes in. His appalling views are a lot more understandable thanks to your insights.
I really liked your response to the criticism you faced from other women, especially white woman, who said you shouldn't make these videos. Not all women will have the time, patience, or even emotional space to deal with helping men become less misogynistic, and if an individual woman can't do that, she doesn't have to. But we all should recognize that the work you are doing, and the work you are advocating for is important to solving the same issues affect all of us here. If someone doesn't have the space at the moment (or maybe even ever) to open themselves up like that, they don't have to watch your video, and they should have the self-awareness to know that just because you are doing something, doesn't mean it is an affront on them. There will be/have been some very important feminists which put in a lot of work to help dismantle patriarchy, and some of jobs will be to literally just survive as women, but even in that we should deeply deeply appreciate the people who go above and beyond to try to make the world better with love and compassion.
Fully agree. Personally I don't think I could do that, at least not at this point in my life. I'm very mentally unwell and have a lot of my own issues related to feelings of worthlessness and a clinically significant obsession with beauty. Even watching videos like this honestly can (sometimes) negatively affect my mental health because it all gets overwhelming. It reinforces the voices that tell me that the most important thing is how I look (both to myself and others), and since I'm currently trying to avoid eating disorder behaviors sometimes I'm just not in the right place to engage with even acknowledging men who have the opinion that everything about me comes back to my body. This woman is doing a great service in my opinion and I have nothing but appreciation for her. I don't have the strength to deal with and give space to men like this, even ones who want to get better because everything about it just feeds the little mongrel in my head telling me that I need to be beautiful (deserving, memorable, worthy of being cherished) or die.
I disagree. You are missing men’s perspectives so it’s always going to fail. Men are in cr*s*s right now. Making men less misogynistic is a correct goal but it misses the point of why the man sphere exists and it’s not going to land well.
Men are going through tons of issues of their own issues right now, none of which are that they are misogynists. That’s a women’s issue. The man sphere exists because we never talk about helping men’s problems and women still really like patriarchy when it hurts men.
It’s not going to land with men to say you are misogynistic. They fall to that because they are struggling and only have problematic people trying to help them.
We need to have discourse and empathy for helping men just as much as women
@@AliceBunny05 I DO have the space to confront and talk to men about this issue and it STILL deeply negatively affects me reading through these absolutely heinous and terrifying Manosphere ideas. I can't blame you. Also, we as women CANNOT change the minds of the people who hate women because they don't respect us. People don't learn from those they don't respect. I'm working with the more lost boys/men who are just looking for good role models and are confused and WANT to change. But it's hard to not let that anger and rage and fear I feel after reading/ watching 12 videos of men promoting the physical abuse of women to find proof of how bad the Manosphere beliefs are for women (and men) seep into my discussions with them. It's a bloody hard balance and I can't blame you for not being in a mental space to do so.
I fully agree. As one of the women who will probably never take the time to try and educate the misogyny out of someone, unless it's one of my younger brothers, I'm glad she's putting out the content for the men that might want to listen. Unlearning my own patriarchal biases was hard enough without having to force myself to listen to perspectives I not only disagree with but deem dehumanizing. Even coming to the realization of my queerness and unpacking the fact that I will never live a life that is "normal" and acceptable to most people has done enough harm to my mental health.
With you 100% on this. I'm not going to sacrifice my mental sanity and waste my words on someone who is not even perceiving me as a human being, but as a walking vagina whose only purpose is to serve a man. I know that there are young men out there who are scared and turn to the manosphere as an "escape to reality", but it's not our responsibility to deprogram them. I truly believe other men have to take the lead, how could a woman succeed when the other person dehumanizes you?
"Good men don't dodge the draft!" - some guy who dodged the draft
Some guy was named Draft Dodgerson.
Exactly.
I’m too blind to even be drafted
Not just that, but manosphere types bring up the potential of having to be called up almost like it’s a bad thing as they’re trying to sell it as masculinity defined, because they always bring it up in relation to how many men die younger than women. But they will never pause to think “hey, maybe that means I need to participate in my government to do something about that.” Why? Because the manosphere ultimately is a snow job intended to keep the wealthy wealthier, and poor males focused on meaningless trivialities they can beat into other non-wealthy people.
Phew. At least I'm an exception. Served 9 months in the military. GMG (Grenade machine gun) squad.
Glory to the LAF! (Lithuanian armed forces)
I remember being an awkward, shy kid with a crush. For a short period I tried looking up how to talk to girls and it was very easy slipping into this, calling pick-up artists the bouncers of the manosphere is on point. Thankfully, it was short lived for me, mainly because it just creeped me out, the idea of that kind of transational world between men and women was really depressing. I thought that even if their methods worked, I wouldn't be happy, I don't know why they think it's a desirable life. It sounds fucking miserable. I'd rather rot on the couch with my girlfriend watching kdramas ngl, that's happiness to me.
Sad thing is there's no way to even talk to men who are deep into this, I've literally had conversations about it where I tried to convince a guy I knew for a long time, that yes I want to spend my life with that one girl, yes I'm happy and don't wanna fuck everything that moves, they just think you're lying to yourself. Well, if I am, it's working because this is pretty fucking nice. These dues either realize it way too late when they've wasted years and drove away good relationships, or never realize it and die as sad old men, it's depressing.
This was... refreshing to read. I have male friends and they tend to have very whorish tendencies and they aren't fulfilled with that life, because sleeping around sucks. It's like giving away a little piece of yourself bit by bit. I don't know how to get them to see it and frankly its not my responsibility to try. It is nice to know that there are guys that actively realize how awful the hoe life is 😅
I lost a friend of almost 20 years to the manosphere. It was horrible.
same, almost 15 years for me, it really sucks because at a certain point its impossible to stop eye rolling or ignoring it
Its wild to me that these ppl cant comprehend that men being femminist is simply an act of solidarity. That we want the best in life for our sisters, daughtersm, mothers, realatives and friends.
But most feminist organizations won't make men's issues a priority
It's not that simple, that simple. Feminism like to pretend it not that it's fair but it always exposes itself. True intentions are found in product not speech. Remember the feminist frech lady that placed a 18% more payement rule for men or the fact that every other feminist movie or fantasy world from the Amazon kingdom to barbie involves the enslavement, killing, ecarcaration or belittling of men and their masculine energy. I've grown to understand that patriarchy is very bad but I've also grown to understand that I can never have a voice in feminist space unless I suppress my masculine energy or unless I'm femine is some manner. At the end day the world is cruel place and the only thing I'm waiting for death, in the meantime I'll be the best I can be but I'll never label myself as either a feminist or conservative cause neither is good, it's just a power struggle between men and women.
I am a feminist but still support some toxic masculinity
@@yamiyugi2894 this is your chance to get off your butt and start advocating for yourself better pay more time with your family better access to both physical and mental healthcare get out there!
@@yamiyugi2894Because feminism isn't about men's issues. Don't get me wrong, men have issues and those issues are just as valid, but those should be addressed by their own groups and organisations. You don't go to a tailor to get your roof fixed. No hate, just trying to explain ✌🏼
It's always so hilarious when comedians want to be taken seriously.
Like, why can't rife just accept that he doesn't actually know how to write funny jokes? Okay dude, YOU thought you were funny, but a lot of people disagree with that. It is what it is.
@@angelaa7388 Because a lot of people DON'T disagree with that and no one gets to dictate what someone else finds funny.
Honestly Rife's conservative turn would be the funniest thing he ever did IF he did it as a joke. But he can DECIDE to start doing it as a joke anytime.
I think that guy picked really bad timing to start joking in that way... distasteful to say the least. Many women are in deep pain because of these things. Physical trauma. Not funny. They wouldn't laugh at a veteran who was injured in war. Or would they? 🤔🤨
The comedians who demand to be taken seriously are the same ones who say "it's just a joke bro" whenever they're criticised
@@SpoopySquid And have a hissy fit whenever the joke's on them.
I think it escapes Jordan Peterson that when people call him "far-right" or assign an ideology to him, they are actually giving him the benefit of the doubt in the sense that most people assume that his attitude stems from deeply-held convictions. But as Jordan says, this is wrong. It's not that he adheres to a coherent ideology, it's just that he's just a self-important asshole who fits right in with other men who have figured out how to make a nice living by punching down.
Funny story, when my mother was watching a clip of his, all I could say was "oh, that's the talking guy." When she questioned, I said "yeah, he's just always talking." And, that's all I remember of him. Not even his name until someone mentions it 😅
In other words, he's just another grifter
It might have been Innuedno Studios or Lindsey Ellis, but I remember an essay that noted that ideology of Jordan's sort holds malleable sub-ideologies. That is they will believe what needs to be believed in the current moment in order to achieve their current goals. This may mean that they one thing in one moment and then say something entirely contradictory in the next, and that's not a problem for them. They are consistent in their inconsistency. It is the 1984 method of being able to say with utter conviction that 1+1= 3 and then immediately sayng 1+1=4 with that same conviction because the party switched lines. So Jordan will say whatever he needs to say - and believe it in that moment - in order to be right and justify his larger beliefs.
@@PhotonBeast you' actually find this in a large number of esp right wing political parties. They're don't actually believe in the assigned ideology of that group. It's just a team to join, that encourages them not to think, to just be angry and enjoy the ability to commit violence. Hence why pointing out that they're being hypocritical means nothing, because they don't care about being a true believer, just a angry one.
And he's likely played too much Command and Conquer.
My brother fell into this space when he was a kid. It's done irrevocable damage to him as a person. And not in a, "Boo he doesn't believe what I do" way. It's in a way where he can't communicate or socialize properly. Where he can't connect to others. Where he's so caught up in being on the "intellectual high ground" that he can't just exist around other people. It breaks my heart that all he knows is having a wall between him and other people.
My ex is a redpiller. I am a Christian woman and when we met he pretended to be a traditional man.
His idea of tradition? It basically came down to "I am going to be a bachelor while you take care of the house and kids".
I supported him financially, yet he couldn't stop talking about women being golddiggers. I live at home with my parents, but he still told me every other day that I "was probably cheating because all women cheat"
I - obviously - dumped him. I am sure he is telling his new girl right now that I cheated on him and stole his money or something.
In all seriousness though, I still haven't healed. This man was the most hateful, sexist and miserable person I ever met. Love makes blind! Thankfully I got out.
For every woman wronged like you, there are probably 2 or 3 guys who have had the police wrongfully called on them, been no-fault divorced and lost their assets and kids, a mans sperm was stolen via sperm theft and forced on child support... i could go on. Women can be made victims by asshole men, asshole women have proven capable of doing the same to men. I wish you best in your healing journey
"I am going to be a bachelor while you take care of the house and kids".
is actually pretty much what traditional masculinity is. Except that the men had a job.
@@anthill1510 That is not true at all. I come from a traditional Christian family and my father and mother adored eachother. They both worked. My mother wanted to work, but didn't have to.
My father, a Christian conservative, always told me that men who look down on women are not real men and not real Christians.
This idea that 'tradition' automatically means 'sexism and oppression' is simply not true. It all depends on the person. Bad people take advantage of things. Good people don't.
You can't turn a good man into a bad man by putting him in a traditional marriage. A bad man in a traditional marriage was always a bad man. Do you think history only had bad men?
Political rhetoric in the United States has no nuance and is very extreme and frustrating. People are either for or against something - instead of letting people live the way they want.
I am not an American. I am Dutch. Over here we don't have culture wars about this. If you want a traditional marriage - that is fine. If you don't - that is also fine. Also "traditional" does not mean the same in every country.
Edit: Typos
@@anthill1510 i think thats probably just what MRA's tell their members because that certainly is not what it is
@@LalaDepala_00 agreed, my family was traditional and our ladies had passions and actively pursue them.
I’ve never actually heard Peterson speak, I just heard other people talk of the stuff he was spewing. It’s genuinely surprising to me just how much he sounds like a muppet. It feels like he thinks he’s playing a very dramatic piano piece but in actuality only has a kazoo.
lol so in other words rather than think for yourself and actually go and listen to his videos you take your info from random people who already don't like him and you believe everything they say about him, hmmm?
@@TheGeckoNinja??? What’s the message here?? 💀
I get it, but this is an insult to Muppets. Kermit would NEVER.
Funniest comment I've ever read.
@@MariaFromTheInternetKermit would absolutely never
All I got from the manosphere was insecurity and a tendency to look at other men as beautiful.
❤
I was hanging out with a group manosphere was brought up, everyone agreed it was probably a psy-op to "make other dudes desire the alphas, and be available for dL messin round, and have the 'gay is bad' rhetoric to blackmail the vulnerable guys" I don't know if that is real, but it sure was a nuanced conversation, I was just listening to it bounce back and forth like. 👁➖👁hmmm
🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤
Much Love!!
@@endTHEhegemony_Today I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's a psyop, but I have definitely had the thought that DL men can't just be a thing in black male spaces. Surely at least some queer or questioning alpha male manosphere gym bro whatever the f**k they call themselves realized they could f**K around with a bro but then also have their "straight" privileges by not being openly queer and continuing to spread homophobia when it's convenient to their fanbase and/or manosphere communities.
If you're not constantly insecure and angry they can't get money out of you
@@endTHEhegemony_Today Love that take. I don`t think it`s true, but I like the presupposition that these guys can`t be serious and this 3D chess is more likely than them actually being serious.😄 For the record: I think the manosphere bro`s are grifters, but I think some of them are high on their own supply.
I really appreciate this video. My boyfriend has started watching Jordan Peterson and co and it’s been hard talking to him about it esp when he uses their talking points and deflection tactics.
As I grew up progressive with conservative family I know to avoid arguments when no one’s open to change and I try not to bring politics up. But he keeps posing hypothetical questions and when I try to answer he’ll interrupt and steer the conversation towards bullshit that is barely related. It’s very frustrating and gets us nowhere, and it feels like he’s having fun watching me scramble to answer every question.
This video obviously isn’t going to fix that but it does help me understand where he’s coming from and I’m hoping that will help next time this happens, so thank you
I’m worried that my boyfriend is also going down the same path. He listens to Jordan Peterson’s podcast and although he doesn’t talk about it with me, some of the things I’ve heard him talk about with his friends and family have really made me question how he views our relationship
@@yeah7519 the fact that yall are willing to stay in these relationships are baffling
@@brwnhilarybanks9953 yeah, that’s the part I’m having a a hard time with. This isn’t a new relationship, I thought I had an understanding of how he views a lot of things and now I’m confused at the change from the person I thought I knew before. It’s not like he’s taken a sudden hard turn into being a manosphere extremist, it’s a lot more subtle than that and I guess that keeps my hope going that he can see through the bs
My 14 year old cousin is starting to get sucked in the manosphere, hes started saying slurs, talking about the jewish space lazers
one day when i wore a crop top hed told me point blank that I'd be 'asking for its"
I've tried to tell him that hes being a dick but everytime he brushes me off as a "dumb sensitive women"
I dont know how to help him and im scared it'll get worse
@@Braingore-de-Rais Maybe you should cram it sideways
@@manderly33 ignore him
Some people just feel the need to comment on others post just to have a fleeting feeling of satisfaction and importance
Not worth anyone’s time imho
@@Braingore-de-Rais why do you think it is important? Get your own shit together before putting your nose in other people's business or taste of fashion. Get a life.
Let him be. He'll get a reality check soon enough
It’s not like a 14 year old has lived any of the issues discussed in the man sphere. He just supports that stuff out of immaturity and imitation. The solution is We need to provide an alternative to the man sphere for men. It’s the only thing that talk about men’s problems.
Heidi Lamar getting the acknowledgement she deserves because DAMN was she smart! She was an absolutely amazing woman
Hedy Lamarr* and I agree!! One of my role models as a woman in STEM
1:33:10 "Change is humanity, humanity is hope, and I am one hopeful motherfucker" brb getting this painted on my wall, printed on my shirt, tattooed on my skin
RIGHT
Yeah, it’s beautiful
Humanity is hope? LOL it looks like despair To me
THAT NEEDS TO BECOME MERCH.
@@henriettebopda5895”Look around you, Athena! The world stands in ruin. What good is your message?” Ass comment.
this video is amazing please never ever stop. you’re a legend.
I'm a lesbian. But that doesn't change the fact of how I feel. I feel deeply for men and have had many men in my life who were there for me when no one was. This video was brilliant. I really hope we can all sit down at the table and laugh and cry and be human together.
Look at you vouching for a group of people who don’t want to sit with you because they don’t see you on the same levels. Let’s stop pretending it’s woman’s fault men don’t want to advance and do better. Everyone else can sit and act right , why can’t they? My
@@imthatbishhh5152women don’t view most men as human beings either. In a society where we talk about women’s issues everyday and never talk about men’s issues. Just stop the cycle of suffering and hate and be nice to people
Women unsuccesfully try to bring up women issues, we men should stop shaming each other and start uplifting each other instead. Women trying to get better doesn't mess with us in any way. The sooner we stop trying to seem like the bigger loser the better. @@minabotieso6944
LOL being a man on the left sucks. My lesbian friends all cut me off because they are "decentering men in their lives". Woman on the left choose to hang out with a bear vs. supporting their own men. There is nowhere else for men to go except into the arms of the right wing... lusting for traditionalism.
@@imthatbishhh5152what the fuck , dude . Your treating all men as if we are this monsters group of people .
Thanks for making a video about this! As the mother of a white preteen son, I am in constant fear of him going down that rabbit hole. We are trying to instill in him an understanding that he is not entitled to anything (We don't want him suffering from Mediocre White Man Syndrome). I also try to teach him about explicit consent, intersectional feminism, and standing up to his friends when they say/do something inappropriate.
What I found helpful is also talking about his own boundaries + how it feels to be mistreated for him and ask how does he think this would affect others people.. just my few cents
This is like trying to raise a chaste daughter by making sure she's raised in a religious household that forbids all talk of the subject and reinforces to her that smex is bad.
If you try to force it down their throat, they will rebel.
Many dudes in the manosphere have a "I was raised to be the opposite of this," origin story.
Just my 2 cents but as you teach him that he is not entitled to anything, make sure you also teach him that he's worth loving no matter if he falls into certain preconceived boxes society creates. Alot of these guys are taught that they must desire and are not worth being desired. Their entire belief system around love is in doing and not simply being.
Watch a promising young woman with him too
I personally think that this whole manosphere problem is due to social isolation, and the social isolation is largely caused by car-centric infrastructure and moving to the suburbs. Sheltered and isolated childern will grow into sheltered and isolated adults, and that point it becomes hard to fix.
The MRA section reminds me of that Jubilee middle ground video where they had (I believe) MRA's and feminists on, and one guy was saying 'most people who fight in wars are men. most people who commit suicide are men'. And a woman claps back with 'And who set that system up?'
That’s an awful response. Regular boys today with no money or power are not responsible for the crimes of all men throughout human history. That’s so silly. There really isn’t a men vs women team like that. Men have always suffered massively due to patriarchy. National and racial teams are more present
@@minabotieso6944men still control all the power in government and big corporations today in 2024. Men still benefit the most from patriarchy so to act like that’s not relevant bc you personally don’t think enough people are talking about men’s issues is seriously unhinged
@@minabotieso6944it’s an awful response as applied to an individual but it’s not when applied to an ideology and those representing it
@@minabotieso6944 you replied to every comment ever are you okay vro calm down for a second and maybe focus on your life rather than gender issues if it gets u this riled up
I think it was a irrelevant comeback. How is saying "you look and sorta act like the people that caused the problem" in anyway a response to what the kid was saying. I agree with the left side in that video, but that response was not good.
To me it's like telling a son who's being beat by his dad to "lay in the bed you made" when he neither made the bed, asked to sleep in it, or wants to sleep in it, but has to only because he looks like his dad.
To be clear, women have it a lot harder in our society then men, but to discount men's problems as "well your ancestors made them" is just not helpful and honestly invalidating in many respects.
As a man, this is really amazing. I'm so tired of making friends and then learning of their misogynistic bull. My highschool's government classes are split red vs blue by gender. It's cool to hear someone calling out the institution of it. But at the same time I had no idea that it's common for women to be afraid of men in general and godamn I am sorry. Even reading all the comments gave me this like horrible perspective that yall have to look through for your own safety on the daily. I understand constantly feeling on guard with specifc types of people, (because safety) but not HALF OF THE DAMN POPULATION. So um sorry and because I learned this, I'm now gonna try and focus on making my female friends feel more safe in my presence. Thank you shanspere and everyone's stories in the comments.
I feel you brother. I just want to meet one other person who doesn’t believe this bs. Hell, even the teachers at my school spew this bs
Only NPCs let happenstance determine their political views. I’m a (mostly) liberal man in a 90% Trump county, the insecurity I witness by the young Trump-flag-flying pickup truck crew is off-the-charts. I don’t need to advertise my beliefs to feel secure.
As a man, the "red pill" sounded like the right way to be a man, but the moment I treated my female friends without romantic or sexual thoughts, I found the best people and friendships I had ever met.
Red pill feeds into the most “lizard brain” part of typical adolescent male desire.
I, as a young American white man, have also been able to make amazing female friendships with non American women who are a little older but the other American women that are my age prove the pill people correct everyday.
You’re the problem bro
@@minabotieso6944you're allowing anecdotal experiences and the internet to influence your opinion on a large, diverse group of women. I hope you're able to heal.
@@minabotieso6944 I mean, on the other hand, no one is entitled to anyone's friendship. There just are people you won't get along with. I also don't hang out with the radical extremists from the villages around and could also say that because they proof the pill people correct, but from an outside perspective, like in the red pill people not being the ones you want to be around...
I’m glad you brought up “they perceive.”
A lot of people who fall into this hole feel unheard and telling them that they aren’t doesn’t fix the problem.
Regardless of what is or isn’t happening, I think it’s important we give these people a place to voice their worries.
I used to be one of "them" but I am glad to announce I managed to escape and now looking back I realize how stupid and cringe this whole thing was and I am deeply ashamed of my previous self
Yeepee for you and your loved ones
Hey, you had to have the journey, and if you found that you tried something and you also found it wasn't for you, more power to you! You are not that person now and right now, you can be proud of your self
It's alright bro, if you cringe at something it means you've grown!!
Honey SAME it’s okay, you’re not alone, the important thing is you got out without going to jail or ending up ⚰️
Typically I hate when podcasts, documentaries, or videos insert clips from movies just to hammer in their point. I find the use of them in this video to be on point, and thank you for not making them loud and 2 decibels higher than the rest of the video. (47:49 for example).
You make some great points, your thoughts are well thought out and you are easy to listen to while I'm sewing / knitting. I'm now a subscriber, and a huge fan.
The breadwinner complaint is complete bullsht. Women are expected to be breadwinners just as much as men are, AND take care of the household
In dating men really don’t care how much women make while women expect the man to make more money
Otherwise women are gold diggers. Or men must earn enough to keep a trad wife at home. It’s a trap for everyone.
In dating, men don’t care how much women earn but women usually expect the man to earn more than themselves. Making money is very obviously a much bigger deal for men than women.
Don’t complain about taking care of the household to man sphere guys who have no hope of a wife or family. Take it up with your husband.
@@minabotieso6944I can't count the amount of stories I've heard of women where they are the breadwinner and do all the housework and the man does nothing. Not to mention how much women get demonized for being gold diggers. I'd say at this point the expectation is to split the bill because men get mad if the woman wants to be treated.
@@minabotieso6944I'm a woman and I genuinely do not care how much a man makes. I make my own money and don't judge someone on that.
Redpillers think that 20-year old superficial Onlyfans models represent all 4 billion women on earth.
your point about how telling people to “just look it up” pushes them right into the hands of the pipeline is soooo helpful oh my gosh!!
On top of that saying it’s not women’s job to help men, men have to help themselves. Well then men just go to the manosphere because that’s the only group trying to help men
@@minabotieso6944 Except they’re not. Because men only end up getting radicalized.
You need to hear this: these particular thought leaders have NO INCENTIVE to help you make your life better. That loses them money. They want you to stick around, listening to them say the same things over and over in different ways, forever.
And I gotta tell you: a lot of redpilled men won’t accept help or advice from
women when offered, because they’ve absorbed these messages. Y’all do need to help each other.
@manderly33 from the few times I've participated in these conversations, "acting" and having a more masculine pfp has gotten me *SIGNIFICANTLY* more positive responses than not. Like, actual minds changed. They literally just don't respond or make assumptions about me when I seem to be a woman behind the screen, even with the same. exact. points.
This, quite literally should be, a mostly man to man issue. not that women can't play their part, just that they won't hear us out nearly as much; if at all.
@@minabotieso6944Although it is true it's not a women's job to help men. Men have their own autonomy. Yes they should have assistance if they wanted but generally that statement of women helping men often comes out of entitlement and I strongly disagree for that.
@@Lemoncakelover678that doesn’t change that the man sphere is the only group trying to help men so the men are going to go to the man spheres nobody is saying it’s the job of women to help men. You guys are strawmaning and focusing on the craziest voices. Women don’t care to help men but it would be nice if they did.
Men get smacked in the face by reality pretty quick if they try to rely on entitlement too much. You guys don’t want to understand men. Especially in dating men have to fight for every date while women wait to be pursued.
As a man, I have been watching in abject horror as the needle of mainstream masculinity has been dragged off the deep end over the last 10 or so years.
Adolescent males today have a severe lack of healthy outlets for their natural aggression and anger (by this I mean hormonally) and these snake oil salesmen have grabbed the reigns of the zeitgeist and bolted with it.
We are currently experiencing an emotional intelligence regression in society and it's not just boys/men either. I fear for the future my kids will have to live in.
If you don’t want to create healthy outlets for men to learn about healthy masculinity and work on their problems then you don’t get to complain about the snake oil salesmen. The snake oil salesmen are the only ones meeting men where they are at. There have been enough video essays saying the manosphere is bad. We have to move on and start providing a solution for men.
@@minabotieso6944 Nobody’s stopping you bud. Stop blaming people with less privilege for your iwn lack of change.
@@manderly33yeah I am personally trying to form healthy outlets for men but nobody here is. This video is a copy paste of a million other videos before. We didnt need another video essay explaining all the factions in the manosphere and what their beliefs are. We need to finally create an alternative to the manospherr
@@minabotieso6944 You clearly do, because you are carrying a LOT of hateful shit around about women. I’m not sure you’d even know what a healthy masculinity looks like. If you were actually trying to change, you would not be repeating the things you do.
Also you have no fucking idea what anyone else is doing. There are left wing YT men who do great healthy masculinity content: Noah Samson, Swolesome, Macabre Storytelling mostly talks movies but did a short series about his redpill experiences and healthy masculinity.
@@minabotieso6944 then show us plans smartass
When you talked about the civilians being sent to war, I couldn't help but remember System of a Down "B.Y.O.B.": "Why do they always send the poor?"
Tralalalalalalalalala, oooooh!!!
*sees new video about the worst people in the world*
*looks inside*
*it's Peterson again*
Every time
he talks really fast and uses big words so he must be smart!
@@coolchameleon21Gotta LOVE big word salads. It's my favorite ego inflating tool 😂
@@coolchameleon21I liked that people have called him out as a dumb guy's idea of a smart guy. I remember looking into him years ago and realising that this man goes on long rants about nothing.
@@coolchameleon21It's the same with people calling Ben Shapiro a good debater honestly. The only thing he's good at is overwhelming and agitating his debate opponents by talking fast, constantly interrupting them and/or insulting them. It's such a simple strategy that consistently fails as soon as someone keeps their cool lol
@@ooowami you should watch him on the joe rogan podcast if you’re looking for a good laugh. even that caveman can tell that peterson is full of 💩
"The problems you are attributing to feminism are caused by racist capitalism."
Amazing video.
Exactly
Amazingly full of lies and misconceptions.
@@ashotofwhiskey219 peterson or this video?
@@goblin3359 This video.
@@ashotofwhiskey219 sure dude. Sorry you're upset by systemic critical analysis. Have a nice evening.
The beginning of the Shanosphere.
That’s fucking good
is this bodyshaming?
@@straxxwhat the hell r u talking abt 😭
@@straxx it's a wordplay on manosphere. I guess you thought it was about.. spheres?
I legit thought that was her name for the longest time
As someone who is still on his journey. Thank you for this piece.
My condolences to ya sis having to endure all this haha 🙏
My condolences for you to having to endure this garbage channel, haha.
put a shirt on lil bro
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure Peterson got his medical license or whatever revoked. I don’t think he can be called Dr. anymore.
I looked it up; he hasn’t lost it yet but he could lose it IF he doesn’t take court mandated media training. his opinions were deemed harmful to the public and reflected badly on the field of psychology
good
@@user-bw5ck7ru6fNo kidding. He speaks as if words mean anything HE wants them to mean. This is a little concerning for an academic.
@@coolchameleon21not good at all.
@@thenoseyskeptic bait used to be believable
WE'RE SO READY
2 hours of yapping even playing at 2x speed theres pauses lmao you girls are brainwashed
Nice pfp
@@veryfancypigeonnice pfp
@@flyingsnail_art9170nice pfp
People like you are so important on the internet! Sometimes it feels hopeless and like the evil forces have taken over every platform and every issue! So thank you for being a light!💡
I wish more men would watch things like this. It’s so upsetting how many of them don’t realize that feminism isn’t causing their problems, but trying to solve them.
They're probably being burned by how some of the more radical feminists act towards them, I don't know, maybe giving the impression to men that they can't even go to feminist marches (I have even seen in my country men being attacked just by trying to go through them to get to their homes lmao) or even present their thoughts and problems honestly without being immediately labeled as a misogynist doesn't create the most welcoming environment for men to have positive relations and productive conversations, but I don't know, maybe, it's once again the problem of men, right? Hahaha
"just trust the feminists" isn't the answer to their issues. i hate the red pill and i wish people like you would leave the disingenuousness out of the conversation. it pushes them further into it.
I wish that too
I've tried to tell people this so many times. Feminism wants men's health too. Not men's downfall.
amen
i dont know where i read it but someone said that the "thing" with guys like peterson, musk, bezos, rife etc is that they can't imagine anyone, especially not men, being more altruistic than them (and that means "being altruistic at all).
Jordan Peterson is my inspiration. I always thought that I was not smart enough to finish college, but that man proves anyone can
Smart and witty 😂
When I was in the last years of highschool, I fell deep into the manospheric world, it was truly a hell of my own making. Ive come so far since then getting out of it, realizing that I was only making myself angrier and angrier at some intangible thing. I hated that I experienced thoughts and feelings of hatred like that. I have never been able to properly vocalize how damaging it was to me, how damaging it was to the people around me, men and women, my siblings and parents. Since then I've come much further, I've been able to critically look back at how ruinous my beliefs and actions were, and at least try to rectify them, to apologize for them. Thank you for this video, It is an incredibly insightful video essay.
I'm now happily engaged to a woman with a degree in gender studies, a degree in history, and a masters :)