Man this video was so good. Your presence, delivery, and editing is fantastic, and your succinct and evidence-based way of presenting these facts so seamlessly is top notch. You detailed how Rebirth wove Cloud and Tifa's relationship directly into the center of the plot by way of the villian's objectives, and I particularly enjoyed how you illustrated the juxtapositions between Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith, as well as the way in which the narrative has ALWAYS presented the "idea" of the Cloud/Aerith relationship and the way in which Rebirth solidifies and confirms what that always was and always will be with CLOSURE in this game. You made so many good points, including a few that I hadn't picked up, like the camera work of GS kiss compared to the OG HW scene, or the implication of Nojima's statement about them not realizing that line would be "something so important". I hadn't read deeply enough into that statement, but now that I have, I think it is a huge reason that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is being portrayed so much more explicitly now that they have the chance to tell this story again. LOVE IT AND LOVE YOU!!!
This comment has me shook! You always know just what to say! *is Jessie* 😂 I'm honored that I brought some things to your attention as well! Eternal love to CloTi and to you for being so supportive! 😊❤😊🎉
Literally the only reason I got so into FF7 was because Rebirth. I was just instantly hooked to Cloud and Tifa’s relationship. I can’t wait to replay Remake so I can appreciate it more because I definitely wasn’t hooked to it like Rebirth has me lol.
I’m basically the same way tbh lmao. I’m not into shipping but after seeing some of Cloud and Tifas scenes in Rebirth I became rather intrigued so I decided it look more into the story and the characters and needless to say Cloud and Tifa just work so well in my brain honestly. It’s not close
@@tanagreeknose7376 It really is totally valid. I though Remake gave both ladies pretty equal treatment and it came down to personal preference or bias. But Rebirth doesn't even try to treat them equally. I was amazed at the focus on their relationship this early in the story as well as a lack of development for Cloud and Aerith. Especially the focus from Sephiroth. Constantly threatened by the primary villain is a big red flag as to who is most important. Wonderful video btw.
Tifa, Cloud hug with PASSION Aerith, Cloud hug with KINDNESS - If you fullfill your promise with Tifa, be her HERO and go save her, In both games, you will have optional scenes where you can choose between Tifa and Aerith, if you choose Tifa the iconic scenes will be with Tifa. But If you break this promise, you'll have it with Aerith. If you make Cloud keep his promises with Tifa, being her Hero, and Earith, defeating Sefiroth. No promises will be broken at the end of the game. - And in Japanese stories involving romance, promises made between children are sacred.
Another TanaGreekNose 7 course meal. Really love the way you structured the video and just got right to the point. This is their love story being played out right in front of us. So much added and it’s not even close to done. All of the most Iconic Cloti is in the next game + whatever extra is added. It’s gonna be incredible. Thank you again for this wonderful video ❤
Something else to note is that cloud isn’t stupid when it comes to these things. Aerith says something about him being dense in these matters but he’s not. When Tifa indirectly tells him she has feelings for him in the sky wheel, he picks up on it right away and kisses her tenderly. When aerith tells him directly that she likes him in the dream date, he immediately changes the subject saying “what’s going on? You’ve been acting weird all day”
I shipped cloud and Aerith on my first playtrough of OG FFVII back in 97. But when you trully understand the structure of the story and know the diference between the game showing you a Narrative vs knowing the true plot. You come to the realization that the game secretly without telling you. Is in fact a love story, between cloud and Tifa.....
I think that's not an uncommon way to experience the story the first time. I watched a streamer play the OG game back a few months ago and he actually paused the game after Highwind scene and talked about this very thing. That he had started out thinking Cloud would be with Aerith but had come to realize the story was that Cloud was meant to be with Tifa. He wasn't some shipper and it wasn't a big focus for him up until that point. I would say this is the most common experience for anyone not really looking for the romance in the first place. If you don't care that much about the romantic stuff, then it's really simple. Cloud and Tifa are just the story.
@talmanes4589 i can definitely see this being a common experience. I think this may have been the devs intention with remake as well. I was new to ff7 with remake. And while I loved the idea of Cloud and Tifa together I ended Remake really believing Cloud and Aerith would be end game. I stayed away from OG stuff while waiting for Rebirth because I really didn't want to spoil anything for myself. I was pleasantly surprised when Rebirth ended up being a Cloud and Tifa love story. I ended up playing OG after I finished Rebirth, and the plot is so straight forward about who the love interest is it makes me really wonder how anyone cant see it.
It really was and I was even shocked by the extent of it! I mean, it literally had its own *story* and *arc* and *plot* in the main quest, not just random irrelevant hangouts in side-quests with a grumpy Cloud, but actual substance and story as a relationship with ups and downs and fights and reconciliations and open vulnerable moments and sexual tension. It also had other characters rooting for them in the main story and the only mandatory scene he had with Aerith in Kalm was *also* part of Cloud and Tifa's storyline cause that's the only thing they talked about. It was truly shocking how much they did for Cloti at this early point of the game. And this just talking about the mandatory main quest and not all the juicy optional added content. And I agree, they gently put the other ship down to rest in the end, in a very sweet way actually. Btw I think that when they didn't properly translate the 'nakama' part, they tried to make up for it by 'now I know where we stand' line, because that is not a positive line and is meant to be said after a rejection. I think they thought it would help convey the same negative feeling of finality for the players, but subtlety is lost on those who are stubborn and in denial.
absolutely love your analysis, you did a phenomenal deep dive! it's disappointing seeing discourse over tifa's character and her importance where some believe that she is "boring" and "just" a childhood friend when really she is so much more. i think her relationship with cloud is the strongest among the other party members and their scenes together across each game and book has solidified their importance to one another.
@@trey800 Appreciate your comment. I adore both of them and together they are even more loveable. Tifa is definitely a very powerful heroine. I think denying her impact on the story and Cloud will be dangerous come part 3!
The problem is, that for every fantastic Tifa fan that recognises her depth of character, there's three horny idiots who just see her bod. You see it in threads all over the place.
Very very good video. I think there's a big divide between people who actually understand how relationships work and are and those who don't. I'm very happy you put out everything logically and out front for everyone to see.
I loved your video! Rebirth really made the love triangle non existent to me lol Also I felt like the last date between Aerith and Cloud was her trying to revisit one of her dearest memories, because the date is the exact same as the one she had with Zack (at least she tries to replicate it) and she can't have Zack with her at the "last date" because she HAS to give the white materia to Cloud, at least that's how I felt, it was a goodbye between the two and a goodbye to her own life, she knew what she had to do to save the planet
Totally agree. I have trouble believing anyone playing the new games totally blind would even see any romance between Aerith and Cloud. It just isn't there unless you squint really hard because you're desperate to find it. Meanwhile Cloud have Tifa are all over the plot, especially in Rebirth where an entire subplot was added to do nothing but focus on their relationship.
Loved your video, i apologise for this long rant here :D I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ok, so in the self containted story in OG VII you don't even know if Cloud and Tifa survive the meteor impact, we don't even see the Meteor being stopped completly from impact, the only thing we see is that Red survived in the flashforward, hinting at that atleast the gang on the Highwind survived and that the world is healing. So back then a player who favoured Aerith were free to assume that Cloud and Tifa died and the two reunited with all loved ones in the afterlife, including Aerith. There was no confirmation whatsoever. So in that context it was completly up to the players imagination. But by the time the devs decided to expand the story, they picked a path: And that path was that Cloud and Tifa survived, built a home, two businesses and adopted a son, with Marlene occasionally staying there as Barret is away at work (since Tifa consider herself Marlenes mother aswell). That's the path they chose. Even if you "think" that he would have chosen to pursue Aerith in OG had she survived, she didn't and he moved on with his life with the woman he has known all his life and loved all his life. Then add the expansion of Zacks backstory. In OG it's hinted that he wasn't perhaps as into Aerith as Aerith was into him, but it was left unresolved and by the time the developers decided to tell his story, they again picked a path: That Zack very much loved Aerith. Even making his death be him knowingly taking the risk of dying, just so he could see her. All of this is now incorporated in the Remake trilogy and that is also why i could very much tell that while Remake was _much_ more ambigous in the relationships between Cloud and the girls, Rebirth wasn't. In Remake Cloud and Aerith bond, banter and grow very close, very fast. He starts out finding her nothing but annoying, but then as they travel the roof tops, they slowly start bantering and by the time you get to her house, he tells her flowers that they should learn to talk to her. Not to mention that he could have ditched her at any point after getting to the sector 5 slums, as it was her home. And as she catches him sneaking out at night, he again _could_ have simply told her to take the hint and leave him alone, but he didn't, hinting at the fact that he does warm up to her. And the same can be said with Tifa, they reconnect, they get know eachother again, banter and showcases great concern for eachother. But in Rebirth..... Cloud and Tifas relationship goes through several stages, it's challanged by the fight Sephiroth influences him to pick with her in Kalm, as she storms off devestated. (And funny enough, here comes the friendship bond he built with Aeirth in Remake and plays it's role: She clearly asked him to climb the tower with her, for the purpose of getting him alone so she could remind him to not take Tifa for granted. She is acting like a friend for both of them.) In Junon the fight is resolved by Cloud apologising (the scene also starts with Tifa being on her way to find him to, she obviously wanted to make up aswell) and then _Cloud_ is the one who shows initiative in working on their relationship as he is the one who tells her thay they will "find time to talk, just the two of us. Figure things out". And again as you mention, then it culminates in an almost kiss in Gongaga, but the bond keeps growing, he shows care for her in Nibelheim as she sees a dead body at the same spot her father died, she hyperventilates, panics and almost immedatly calms down by Cloud simply putting his hand on her and saying her name. Then all the way through the temple of the ancients, Tifa is again the only one noticing Clouds odd behaviour. No one else does. And all of these scenes are 100% non optional, you get them regardless of the decisions you make. Now on to Cloud and Aerith. Were are their challanges their "situationship" goes through in Rebirth and were are their important conversations regarding the topic of "them"? They simply do not evolve beyond the friendship they built in Remake. Atleast not on Clouds part (since Aeriths intentions were quite clear from the get go). There are no challanges, no missunderstandings, no point were their relationship temporarily is damaged, then built back up again stronger than before etc. Like the examples of how the story between Cloud and Tifa evolves throughout Rebirth. And the only conversations that deals with them is stuck behind the optional date (the devs claim all/none are canon, just a reflection of Clouds relationship with them and yeah, he only kissed one girl there) and within the Dream date that has two versions, dependant on an affinity system were Cloud ultimatley deflects and does not engage in the conversation Aerith was trying to have. Not to mention that..... the "dream date" is skippable if you choose to omit *Zacks* story line on replays.... Odd isn't it? Almost like a hint? And speaking of Zack, why is he there? The guy who's sole desire is to reunite with Aerith? Did the deves include him just so he can give Cloud his blessing for Aeriths hand or is he there to eventually reunite with her? Like, what's more likley? Lol :P If the intention was to keep the love triangle alive and for them to grow aswell, why not have Cloud maybe get angry at her as he realises that he reminds her of her ex? Maybe Cloud could have been depicted as feeling "used" by her and the tension could have been resolved by more or less the same dialouge that was used in her date? Were she acknowledges that yes, he shares some traits that reminded her of him, but that Cloud is also very different from him and that she wants to get to know Cloud for Cloud. Maybe even ended the scene with Cloud jokingly introducing himself to her and she plays along, so the players can tell that "oh, their bond is now deeper", just as we could see happening with him and Tifa. It really dawned on me after a couple of playthroughs that no, the supposed Love triangle is already solved. It's been solved for years. It's Tifa. Sure, who knows, in pt 3 they might pull the rug on us and delve deep into Cloud realising the deep feelings he had for Aerith etc, i don't know, but i just don't see the set up for it. Especially not since they included Zack in the game. End of rant :D
Its not solved. Cleriths have too a ton of arguments. They are satisfying both ships giving material to both. Just answering a thing. Why Cloyd doesn’t get jealous of Zack? He does in Gongaga, in Aerith date such jealousy separates them. Even in Tifas date, he can’t get such jealousy out of his mind.
@@adamnesico No. Every single ultimania reffers to Aerith as Clouds best friend while simultanously stating that Cloud and Tifa confess their _mutual_ feelings for eachother under the Highwind, not to mention that Tifa and the player get to see that Cloud is in love with Tifa in the Lifestream. Aeriths a red herring, she is presented as a love interest and heavily pushed in the narrative until she gets killed because it made her death unexpected and shocking. Plain and simple. If they satisfying "both" then there was zero reason for Cloud not to kiss Aerith on the GS date or on the dream date. Or at the end of the game when he is talking to her spirit. Cloud does not love Aerith romantically. He loves her as his best friend.
@@Mukation The games too describe Tifa as just a friend. If you are gonna accept everything the devs say for feed the ship wars, you will have to declare Cloud as the king of friendzone.
@@Mukation Why doesn’t Cliud kiss Aerith in the wheel? 1 she didn’t gave any signal of desire a kiss. 2 he felt the remember of Zack was separating him and Aerith. Aniways, in each date Cloud gave the girls what they wanted: Tifa tried a kiss in Gongaga, so Cloud gave her one. Aerith singed “take my hand and be together” so Cloud took her hand in a boyfriend style. Which ever is picked, Cloud give her what she wanted.
@@Mukation i too have the theory that Tifa represent western dating style while Aerith japanese style. Kiss while dating is acceptable in West but not in japan, they instead replace kiss with hand holding, i think.
The thing about the dates is, they're not optional. The game forces you to take a party member on a date, otherwise the game won't progress. And the devs never claimed that the dates were optional or not canon like some try to push. They said it was slightly removed from the main scenario because you're literally forced to steer away from it to explore character relationships. You have to watch Cloud confirm the nature of his relationships with each party member (as stated in the rebirth ultimania). Something the players have no control over. And not only is Tifa the only one he initiates & reaches out to, but he confirms that the romantic love between them is requited.
The optional argument is disingenuous imo anyway. It's only very selective optional scenes that certain people would like to ignore. I've never heard anyone arguing that Vincent and Yuffie aren't actually part of the story despite them both being optional in the OG game. The whole scene with Zack's death, optional. Does that mean it didn't happen? All of Vincent and Yuffie's backstory and quests, optional. All of Wutai is optional, so does the place even really exist? Tons of side quests in the remakes are optional. But no one ever tries to argue that stuff doesn't count. But the Highwind scene, well that has an option and we don't like it so we'll cry real loud about it. Same thing with the kiss. Only the kiss is 10x worse for them than Under the Highwind was. They could comfort themselves by pretending it only happened because Aerith was dead back then. Now Aerith was alive and well but the options are still the same. For Cloud it's Tifa or no one.
@@talmanes4589 bringing up that Zack’s death scene was optional is a really strong argument. I’m sure some people would still go blue in the face trying to say Cloud and Tifa aren’t legit. As Sephiroth said (more or less), those with clouded eyes will never see the truth🥴😂. But in all seriousness, people are always gonna be in denial sadly. I’m done arguing the facts. We won anyway….our side has been validated
@@peppergirlrocks It's in the Rebirth Ultimania where they discuss the affinity system in relation to the GS date and how they decided on the dialogue options.
After that dunk in the reactor pool and with Cloud’s altered cells, any kid they’ll have after this Remake will be a mako infused Weapon level super soldier.
When Cloud and Tifa kissed I literally screamed with absolute joy!! When I started Remake, it was my intro to FF7. It was actually Sephiroth in Smash Bros that got me interested (Sephiroth is the best villain in video games). And then I knew about Aerith dying. So I was like I am gonna have Cloud save Aerith and they’ll be happy together. But then I met Tifa Lockhart and I instantly fell in love with that character. So I was like I will do one playthrough for each girl. But as I played, I realized that Cloud is only in love with Tifa and he won’t be with anyone but her. I absolutely loved their relationship and I was extremely excited to see more in Rebirth. And this was so much more than I could have hoped for. They’re one of my favorite couples in fiction
I remember when AC released. That scene where Tifa gets up behind Cloud on the bike during the Behemout battle. She gets on and he looks back over his arm, checking on her. It's fast but I knew then, even if the opening scene I the church wasn't obvious enough
For anyone who blames the affinity system for “creating a CT romance” that wouldn’t have otherwise existed: A grand total of 0 cloud responses in choice dialogue are romantic in nature. This is not a dating sim where selectable dialogue becomes more and more suggestive until it becomes an explicit affirmation of romantic feelings. All dialogue is platonic relationship-building in nature. The GS date, on the other hand, has no dialogue choices, so there is no opportunity for the player to steer Cloud in a direction the developers do not intend for his character. Both high and low affinity scenes feature an affirmation of Tifa’s romantic feelings. The GS Tifa date is simply depicting a “what if” scenario based on the 100% canon, main scenario events.
@AkihikoLockhartStrife There's nothing stopping them from remaking it. It can be Canon, but still be remade, with the remake of it being Canon. Of course it remains to be seen if it would be remade correctly. As I keep saying Cloud and Tifa's relationship is far from the only thing they botched in that movie. And as much as I doubt they would fix everything in a satisfactory manner, they can at least improve things enough to be acceptable.
@AkihikoLockhartStrife We definitely should do so. But the odds of getting AC changed the way it needs to be will be much higher if we start the conversation now.
There have been exactly three fictional romantic relationships I've ever cared about. This one was the first and still my favorite after almost thirty years. I still can't quite believe how much they added for them together in this part of the story. Loving it. I especially love how all of Sephiroth's efforts to drive a wedge between them only drives them closer together.
Correction: a love story among Sephiroth x Cloud x Tifa. Lol jk (ish). But in all seriousness, like i said before, i can almost always tell who actually knows the story and lore of ff7 and a newbie who has been introduced to the fandom via the remake trilogy. But they'll try to argue about something they clearly know nothing about, especially when it comes to the canon ship. No. Newbies are great. But stay in your lane, please.
@@tanagreeknose7376 So much of what I see is people regurgitating their own head canon like it's actual fact. While willfully ignoring everything that actually happens in the games.
@@talmanes4589 yup. Maybe they don't understand that they can still have their fanon fun while still acknowledging canon. That's literally what fanfiction is for.
@@thehoneybunempress1664that's how I feel about Zack and Cissnei. I strongly prefer those two over him and Aerith, but I'm not so dumb that I can't see that was plainly never going to happen. To be completely Fair, I've seen a few Clerith supporters who are actually mature enough to handle it this way, but so many just aren't.
What's so interesting in rebirth is that after checking some stuff out her Gongaga talk about Zack is much more ambiguous and she straight up admits that she never really stopped liking him compared to OG optional scene where she straight up says that the past is in the past and completely moved on. She also used to have advantage and was easier to get her date at the Gold Saucer due to having much more points of affection here it's not the case everyone has excluding the boys (unless you do no sidequests at all) night a fair chance for getting a date. The Dream "date" is also one of those things where Cloud either responds with that nakama line or if you got the high affection (this feels like it's not even high affection because you actively need to get her date having an 80+ relationship which is a teal smile maxed is not enough to get it) it's more hopefull but her reaction ultimately still stays the same and a bit of dissapointment can be seen in her because it's not really meant to be but also Sephiroth is around the corner. Then we have Zack in the lifestream (afaik this is the most sound theory I can see it being a thing so it ties the loose ends perfectly in terms of the compillation which is their goal) world is trying his best to talk to her and reunite with her there is a point when zack holds her hand and Aerith in our main world feels it through the lifestream she has her hands in. The variables are pretty interesting and I can understand why cleriths are really annoyed by this because tbh up until disc 2 you really could have fooled me that Cloud and Tifa wasn't really a thing that can happen. It's kinda crazy how the only argument they really can use is that it's "optional" but by that logic then Cloud straight up friendzones her since you need to get an Aerith date to get that line not only that but the significance of the first ff7 universe kiss is given to them (Yuffie cheeck kiss doesn't feel like it counts) speaks volumes in itself specially how they had two moments of something happening like that
I think that Aerith's behavior in FF7 belies her true feelings on the matter. You could tell that Zack was REALLY important given Cloud's identity crisis also, but he was someone they didn't have enough time to expand upon. So glad he got his spotlight since Advent Children.
The way cloud and erith were handled in the original was a side effect of both the messy production, and the fact that the original vision of the game was different. They all but directly admitted that the reason they didn't bother to fix this was because they didn't think it was a big deal, they felt the way Tifa and Cloud had gone by the end of the game had made things obvious enough. An understandable position when you consider the fact that nobody thought this was going to become an entire compilation at that point.
I’ve seen all of the online debates regarding this and have my own theory(as we all do lol)…spoilers in this for people unfamiliar btw…I completely believe this Remake trilogy is all very much about a Cloud and Tifa love story. I believe it’s with entire intent from the beginning, this entire story is about these events happening “again” but going into a new direction. It’s outright stated by the developers that this is an unknown journey and they put so much into Cloud and Tifa. Aerith has forthright knowledge of events, she knows deep down that no matter what, there’s certain aspects of fate that can’t be changed and have to happen. Her ultimate fate being unchangeable. I think it’s bittersweet for her, but that ultimately she is just trying to appreciate the time that she’s given. Obviously she wishes things could be different but also accepts that they are not to be so. In her first meeting with Cloud, she gives him the flower, stating the flower represents lovers being reunited. My first play through I took this as a meta insert from the developers as being the two of them..but..then..when I played again..I took notice of how they removed the option of Cloud not giving Tifa the flower. I feel now that this was a very deliberate action to represent Aerith giving Cloud the flower for the purpose of him giving it to Tifa specifically..considering Aerith’s knowledge of events..stating that Cloud and Tifa is a true love that is meant to be and they’ve been reunited after these 5 years. It also seems to me at other times that Aerith even encourages Cloud and Tifa. I think Cloud and Aerith’s relationship is about being close, more than simply friends but not meant to be romantic this time around. Special to each other yes..but acknowledging that it’s something deeper than just an attraction. A love that’s more about someone being a central and irreplaceable piece of one’s life..but for Cloud and Tifa-a true story of romantic love. OG FF7-absolutely a love story between Cloud and Aerith and love triangle between the three..but I wholeheartedly believe it’s the developers intentions this time to push Cloud and Tifa together sooner, that it’s about things happening differently “this time” to what they should be. That Aerith is trying to make things right this time for everyone. That’s something actually beautiful about the story, that the developers gave you the option of essentially reliving the events of OG FF7 of a love that can’t be for those who can’t or don’t want to let go of that. With the hope in the unknown..that this time you can save her. Yet ultimately showing you though that importance of Aerith’s sacrifice and her death is deeper to the story than simply a relationship mechanic that can be changed based on your actions. That ultimately as well..despite everything..Aerith is meant to pass away no matter what to save the world and those she loves and that Cloud and Tifa are just meant to be. And Aerith knows this. And Tifa absolutely is an integral part of Cloud. I feel they really wanted to flesh this out more so this time. I don’t think it’s fan service..I believe it’s about cementing their intentions this time in an undeniable way. That as events unfold differently because of outside influences and interference..it brings Cloud and Tifa closer together-sooner-and more powerfully. They’re each other’s rock..and Aerith’s story this time is a bittersweet memento, that is a nod to OG..but also more about the life and death of someone who was special to everyone and how she touched their lives in their short time together. While also allowing Cloud to overcome his grief and guilt(possibly) sooner this time so that he can be the stronger person he needs to be this time around, than what he was in OG 7. Since the threat is greater this time.
Cleriths are the most Delulu people I have ever come across on the interwebs or they are just the ultimate trolls who doesn't understand the FF7 story. That Aru streamer, is the worst. toxic person sending her delulu minions to troll on others
@@CloudStrifeeeeee if I was not clear enough. Or you just made my point about Cleriths are so delulu that they can't read/comprehend words. It's CLERITHS
I never understood why people even ship Aerith and Cloud it’s obvious ( and even admitted by Aerith ) that her attraction to cloud was solely based on the fact he literally reminded her of Zack the same could be said of any attraction Cloud might feel towards her being remnants of Zack feelings for her being transposed onto cloud due to his condition. It’s revealed that cloud had always had feelings towards Tifa him wanting to join SOLDIER and become a big time war hero was literally to impress her which is why he felt tremendous shame and couldn’t reveal himeself to her when him and Zack when back to his hometown. I personally feel that the date with Tifa is the developers way of finally canonizing who clouds romance truly is since not only is it in Tifas date that Zack isn’t brought up it’s also the only date that has cloud actually make the moves when he extends his hand to Tifa it’s also the only date that actually has cloud share a kiss kind of like the developers saying “this is the canon romance” since it’s odd that only Tifas gets that level of intimacy. Lastly Aeriths true love has always been Zack and having cloud end up with her seems like a stab in the back to his long time friend who saved his life and is even still technically alive in this new version.
Except that Aerith loves Cloud, she surpassed Zack after 5 years, it didn't change from morning to noon, she felt in love with Cloud after 5y without Zack
@@user-rl5uo3xf5r while I do believe that aerith did grow to care for cloud it still can’t be denied that her initial attraction to him was due to him reminding her of Zack cloud even mimicked some of Zack’s mannerisms (this was shown better in the OG FF7 then in the remake) while Tifa loved cloud for who HE was not who he reminded her off
@@Jay3up Not only her initial attraction, but all of Cloud and Aerith interactions are with Cloud's Soldier persona. Aerith never meets, gets to know, or spends any time with real Cloud. She only knows the fake Cloud, which she realizes when she says she wants to get to know the real him. And that's as far as their relationship ever goes. She dies a day or two later and that's that. Cloud and Aerith are a what if scenario, Cloud and Tifa are the actual plot. Less about shipping and more about people's ability to comprehend the story and plot amid all the misdirection in the narrative.
I had to comment on the article regarding Advent Children. Why don't ppl recognize that we never see Tifa and Cloud's bedroom? Ha. Reno and Rude put them in Denzel and Marlene's room.
I always said. That the people who truly understand the plot of Final Fantasy 7 will always ship cloud and Tifa. People who get stuck on the narrative will always ship cloud and Aerith!
@DsLmaNiaC its important because the story is also a love story. And love stories will have you want for the couple to end happy together. That's the whole point. Were FFVII has its problem is in the way the story is told. Were one can assume that the couple the game is trying to have you want happy at the end is not what it seems. Because the main plot of the story is about things being not as it seems!
@@Jammineyeonline I agree with everything. Cloud and Tifa's relationship is the pillar of the game plot and its love story. That is why I am saying you don't have to ship them, you ship someone when your preference is contrary to the story. Tifa and Cloud and their bond are a major part of the story.
@DsLmaNiaC i think you may be confused about what shipping is!. Now, i may be wrong!. But shipping is who you believe to be the couple the story intended to end up together. For example. As you told me, you beleave tifa and cloud are the main couple. But what if i disagree with you because i have a wealth of information that supports the opposite. You simply say, that's not true, because you have your own weath of information that supports your claim. That's what shipping is. Another example would be, do you beleave spiderman should be with marry jane, black cat, or gwen stacy? (I hope you know about Spiderman). Who you believe Spiderman should end up with is your shipping couple.. and you would be valid to say so.
I'm not a shiper but I choose Tifa for reasons 1 it feels that she's the right person 2 the whole based because of young boy wanted to impress his crush and then he gets traumatized by etc etc 3 when I was 12 and played it and when reached mideel Tifa's support and when the real Cloud came back I remember I start yelling screaming of happiness telling my mother Cloud is back Cloud is back Tifa helped him to remember I went out to tell my friends my excitement was too much for that reason I choose Tifa I love Aerith too I love them both and finally I hope in part 3 nojima will finally choose a canon love it will be 30+ years so the war will end both with sephirot and Tifa Aerith tho they were beasties
The way I see it is that Zack is trying to reach out to Aerith. But Aerith does not know it. Remember when he touched her hand and she felt it in the other world. Besides that her burden of fighting Sephiroth is hindrance from her living her life. She is a tragic character who will carry on her burden to save the world. But I believe she will be saved by a hero. Remember when Zack yelled to Cloud to save her. For Zack it does not matter even if he is not the one who saves her. Both of them have will sacrifice their desires to do the right thing. It's a juxtaposition of Tifa and Clouds relationship. Childhood friends trying to remember, Tifa trying to make Cloud whole, and star-crossed lovers, Aerith accepting her fate setting aside her love with Zack trying to reach her. By way remember the scene when a bullet was headed for Zack's face and the wind pushed it aside. I believe it was part of Aerith in the lifestream that did that. This Sephitoth and Aerith are from the future through the lifestream. While Aerith is losing her memories, Sephiroth kept his because the Jenova part of him is all that remains. He already threw his humanity into the lifestream so that he will not be absorbed by it.
It’s funny because before FF7 Remake came out my favorite pairing was Zack x Cloud (friends) and Zerith. I was a light Cloti and kind of a light Clerith. I had played the OG at 13, watched AC, played Crisis Core, etc. After playing FF7 Remake I told one of my good friends, they’re really pushing Cloti in Remake. Cloud and Tifa really like each other a lot. She kind of agreed with me. Then Rebirth came out and it was like, Damn, Cloud and Tifa really love each other. I can’t see Clerith now. It just doesn’t have the same passion and intensity that Cloud and Tifa have for each other. I’ve heard Cleriths weaponize the Gongaga scene in many ways, one being that Cloud appears more distraught over Aerith’s death than Tifa’s. Well, it’s different. Since Cloud thinks for a few minutes (or hours) that he killed Tifa he regresses back to that catotonic state where he ceases to be anything. It’s only when he finds out that she might be alive, and Barrett punches him, that he comes back to life. So it’s worse in some ways. Also, I don’t think Aerith is 100% over Zack either. I’m not sure how Aerith feels about Zack, but he’s still madly in love with her in Rebirth. . . Anyway, thanks for the video! I loved it as well as your amusing sense of humor :)
@TanaGreekNose, I did a playthrough of Chapter 14 in Spanish with the hope that it would clear up some of the confusion I had with the English localization, and came across this spicy tidbit regarding the difference in both tone and severity from the Sector 5 photographer quote that you brought up. In English he said "you don't look like you're on a date, more like at a funeral" and then says something like "have fun while you still can" when Aerith rebuffs his funeral remarks. The Spanish turns out to be WAY more brutal, where it instead translates as "don't you think you make a bad couple? She looks like she's about to cry", and in response to Aerith's protest he says "you don't have chemistry, period". It's just so much more savage than the English version and clearer too. Would love to hear your thoughts on this poor English localization.
That translation is brutal! As of right now I'm not sure how accurate it is to the Japanese but from what I've seen of the Italian one that was more loyal to the Japanese, the Spanish one might be getting across the intended message more accurately as well given that the European languages take their cues directly from the Japanese.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Got it, thanks. I also did both low and high affection church scenes in Spanish, and the nakama thing comes up in the former. Instead of the whole "next time" exchange, she says "that's because we have few memories together", and he responds "we will make more over time". When Aerith asks her "next time" question in response (in Spanish it's "is that what you want"), he says "eso hacen los amigos, no", which translates to "that's what friends do". High affection version he just says, "yeah, definitely". Based on that, my guess is the Spanish (Castellano dialect) is reflective of the Japanese dialogue, since he calls her a friend either way in the low affection version.
Yeah Idk if I’m the only one who thought this, but after playing Remake after Crisis Core, every romantic scene with Aerith and Cloud felt so awkward. 😭
Naybe this siybds crazy fir some but cloud, tifa and aerith "triangle" feels quite similar to Geralt, Yennefer and Triss story, ofc with tbe nuances and changes of their respective genres and structures
We all know the climactic moment in the lifestream will make us scream tears of joy, and the Highwind scene as well. But it’s the journey… how low will their relationship get before that happens? That’s whats gonna break all of us the most. I’m entirely convinced that Cloud will journey to Northern Crater in a completely different manner from the OG. I can see Cloud’s belief that she’s ok creating a rift with everyone in the party and he just decides to abandon them and proceed to the crater alone. Like imagine if Tifa catches him having a conversation with Aerith, who isn’t there at all, and he says something like “Glad you’re ok”, and Tifa gets angry at him for suggesting that when she’s really not there. Imagine if we play as Tifa, and right before Cloud arrives at Northern Crater, Tifa confronts him and tries convincing him this isn’t the right thing to do. And when Cloud actually refuses for once, Tifa will be heartbroken at the idea her spiky haired lover would suddenly turn “evil”… and Cloud ends up being a boss fight. Imagine how gut wrenching that would be for Tifa to attempt to knock him out. And then we get Mideel… Brit’s gonna kill it during that moment and it’s going to break me once we finally see comatose/unconscious Cloud, and how Tifa’s heart shatters when she sees him in that state I swear, part 3 better have an epilogue of sorts after the credits roll where we see them living a healthy life at the new Seventh Heaven. In a world where the bad events of Advent Children never happened.
The thing is, I actually agree with that particular review and it's criticisms of how they handled cloud and tifa. That's one of many reasons that advent children needs to be fixed. Hell, imagine them having a baby that had geostigma, it would both up the stakes and give them a stronger reason to join the fight against it. (If you have a disease it's one thing, your infant baby having it is another thing entirely)
For me personally shipping wars are so silly at this point... It's all so subjective. Game give each gamer an opportunity to make their own story canon, but yet - people decide to fight over nothing instead. (If something, my words above not directed to you, it's more like - what I saw online... You being passionate about cloti bring me so much joy!) I shipping both Cloud x Tifa and Aerith x Cloud (and a little bit Tifa x Aerith, if I'm in the mood 🤭). I feel really strong about both ships, and I love them both dearly. For me - they both canon. And, if I would feel the need, I know that I can found a way to proof why both of this shipps are meant to be. Because games give us that - variety. Thank you for really nice cloti content! I loved it! I wish to find another youtuber as passionate as you are - but this time about Cloud x Aerith! 💚 Then I would be able to enjoy story through the both linses and would be fully satisfied! And what else there to wish for while we all waiting for FF7 Remake Part 3... Anyway, thank you for the video! I wish your channel to grow, so I subscribed!
In Gongaga, when Cloud asks Aer if she still loves Zack, in the JP she answers, “that’s right” without a shadow of a doubt. She doesn’t say “maybe.” Idk why the hell the localization decided to change that from something she says with certainty into something less so. There was no cultural or idiomatic reason for that change. Rebirth seems worse than Remake when it comes to this.
That's what someone else commented as well. I'm trying to save some stuff for my JP playthrough, but I see that the translation team keep having to make interesting choices. Lol
Sure, but i think she made it pretty clear during the game she loves cloud now, so it is irrelevant. Even if you don't consider their ship canon, the devs have been doing some work to make both fanbases happy.
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs What you have *_FAILED_* to realize that Cloud had friendzoned Aerith more than twice. He called Zack's girlfriend "WEIRD" when she's replaying her date with Zack. If you don't believe me, watch and play Crisis Core. And lastly... the immortal ancient Aerith have to accept Cloud's final decision and be COMRADES before her last goodbye at the end of part 2.
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs I don't think Rebirth does anything for Cloud and Aerith, except maybe through more dirt on the idea that it was ever intended to be more than a red herring to suck players in emotionally in the OG. Aerith seems confused about her feelings for Cloud and all she can come up with is that she wants to get to know him better. The more damning problem is that Cloud never reciprocates anything more than friendship towards Aerith. Meanwhile Cloud and Tifa's relationship gets its own subplot throughout the game, with flirting and intimate moments and real development, and that's even without the optional kiss.
It's funny to see some people here trying to argue about CloTi with the usual arguments, but when you stop to read what they are saying, they clearly didn't watched the video or either paid attention what is being said (just like this people do with the game lol). The fact is: If the devs wanted, they would do a REAL romantic triangle. Clerith is a ship based in misunderstandings and random 'profs' that goes to nowhere else than a oblivion of "what if"
But it is one and that is exactly what they want, they don't want to "hurt" part of their fanbase, there are valid arguments for both ships because of that, you would be ignoring the story of this trillogy and other media for this, it is so obvious, i could say then that aerith being rosa in loveless is canon, where the main point is the hero and aerith loving each other and foreshadowing the rest of the game, bht even then you can choose and rosa will change depending on your date, why? Because there is no canon ship.
@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs Well, for me, if they wanted to maintain this "equality" and non canon couple, They would give both the same romantic relevance. Even with the most pro-clerith scenes, there is always a hint to Zack (I am not going to get into that discussion about C having Zack memories). In OG, this was visible, but in rebirth, it is shining bright, even more with they argument in Kalm and they resolution, which only adds a profundity to they relationship in general (leading to gongaga scene), there was a portrait of something that happen with real couples. In conclusion: Even if it was supposed to not have a official couple, Aerith and Cloud have so much lacking to be considered equal to Tifa and Cloud in terms of real connection (sorry if this is too long)
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs You can't say that when all the romantic options are with only one girl. If they wanted them to be equal, they sure did a piss poor job of making them equal. So much so that it's laughable to think they intended any kind of equality. Where's the kiss for Aerith, where's the confession of his feelings for Aerith, where does Cloud open up about his fears and insecurities with Aerith, where does Cloud and Aerith's relationship grow or develop, what struggles does their relationship have? All that is only there with TIfa, and much of it isn't optional. Just like OG, optional or not, Tifa is the only romantic option available for Cloud. No matter how hard some players might wish it, or what choices they make, it is impossible to force Cloud into a romantic relationship with anyone other than Tifa. Any romance between Cloud and Aerith is limited to "what ifs" and fanfiction. The remakes are clearing up much of the ambiguity of the OG, just as the creators said they would. The play is flimsy evidence of anything btw. It's a play with no connection to our characters other than they perform the play. I don't see how Aerith being Rosa means anything about her relationship with Cloud. Some people sure can stretch something to try to support what they want I guess, lol.
I jump back and forth between Aerith & Tifa but recently I been leaning more and more with Tifa. It just makes a lot of sense and at the end of the day, I just want my boy Cloud to be happy and he can only do it with Tifa because shes alive!
Since I was kid the Og make me thing Cloud like Aerith and than AC come out Cloud seem like think about Aerith more than Tifa (with kid analysis) so I feel sad x2 bc I in love with Tifa from the begin and everyone around me like Aerith even my best friend always say Could with Aerith so when I grow up I still thing like that but when remake come out is very clear who Cloud always love is Tifa and it's obviously more with rebirth. one thing, I see is beautiful in rebirth are relationships between any charecter so interesting it feel like comeback to my young fantasy game again 😊 with my party.
I'm a Cloti at heart so naturally I will gravitate to anything that confirms Cloti. That said, I think Clerith shippers should be allowed to ship if they do wish. My only concern is that Clerith shippers sometimes underestimate Tifa's importance to Cloud. They are so focused on Aerith that they downplay, ignore, or deny any opportunity to make romantic connections with Tifa. I may be mistaken but I feel most Cloti fans often acknowledge the romantic connection between Cloud and Aerith but merely emphasize that the connection is stronger with Tifa. In reverse, it seems like Clerith fans try hard to dismiss the Cloti romance. As a Cloti fan, I'm more than happy to acknowledge that there's some level of romance between Aerith and Cloud. That said, Aerith still loves Zack. Clerith fans try to undermine the significance of Zack and what he meant to Aerith, ignoring the 89 letters as well as the fact that it hasn't been that long since she stopped writing the letters. It's not like she stopped because she wanted to, she just didn't know what else to do but try to let him go. But there's still love there, love doesn't just fade away after a few months. Conclusion: all ships are valid... But Cloti and Zerith are the best ships 😎😌😏
I disagree. The same can be said about Clotis that constantly downplay, ignore, undermine all the romantic moments between Cloud and Aerith. Ask yourselves this question, why would a person be willing to risk their lives and wage war against the strongest government’s own personal HQ to rescue a woman in which he has only met for 2 days if not for love? Because that was exactly what Cloud did for Aerith back in Remake. The only reason that you guys ship Zack and Aerith is because it makes it easier for you to ship Cloud and Tifa. But do you guys actually care about Zack and Aerith as characters? Because if you did you would be willing to admit that Aerith has already moved on from Zack and has already fallen deeply for Cloud as not only a lover but a soulmate and Zack has already accepted this like the champ he is. Zack has completely entrusted Cloud to take care of Aerith because he KNOWS his friend will do right by her. He even says “CLOUD! SAVE HER!” during the final battle. Marlene even debunks Zerith herself. But ya’ll wanna look down on a pure-hearted kid just cause she’s young. Just analyze the final battle for yourself. She could have been reunited with Zack her first love but chose to be with Cloud instead! Cloud was [Aerith’s] friend, her lover - he represented something precious, an existence that she must protect. On the Way to a Smile, Case of Lifestream (White), Final Fantasy VII Novel by Kazushige Nojima Nojima clearly shows this in Rebirth ^ as Aerith protects Cloud from Sephiroth during the final battle.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee "why would a person be willing to risk their lives and wage war against the strongest government’s own personal HQ to rescue a woman in which he has only met for 2 days if not for love" Tifa goes too, but besides that, in the OG it's more or less because Cloud is in his Zack-persona as a brave and stalwart hero, and brave and stalwart heroes always save the girl. Not that he doesn't care about Aerith, but just like Tifa, it's more than one thing. "Because if you did you would be willing to admit that Aerith has already moved on from Zack" she specifically says she hasn't. I'll point out the obvious that CC made the Zack-Aerith relationship way more close and meaningful than what was implied in the OG, and they didn't backpedal on that at all for the remake. That doesn't come across as the writers trying to convince us that Cloud and Aerith are one true loves and Aerith is totally over Zack. "Marlene even debunks Zerith herself." She doesn't debunk anything. She tells Zack something that is true, that Aerith has feelings for Cloud, which developed in Zack's absence. It'll be up to Part 3 to reconcile that Aerith has feelings for both men, and since the game ended with Aerith feeling ambiguous about her feelings for Cloud despite her understanding this her final moments to do so, it's a lot less clear-cut than you are implying.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee Well I feel like you sorta proved my point. If you re-read you saw my comment, I acknowledged that there is a romance between Aerith and Cloud but merely that I feel the romance between Tifa and Cloud is more profound. Also the point of caring about the characters seems disconnected from logic a little. We aren't shipping Zack and Aerith just cause. It would be just as invalid to suggest that Clerith shippers are doing so just cause. There is an element of unfulfilled love between Zack and Aerith. Both of them wanted to spend more time with each other but war and crisis prevented them from doing so. I personally am not the denying the existence of Romantic feelings between Aerith and Cloud. That's what the writers sorta want to allude to. But to imply that Aerith has moved on from Zack completely as though waiting four years and a half years for him means nothing, I feel like you're just doing exactly what I said Clerith shippers do. Invalidate or Downplay, or deny. I'm not denying. I agree that Aerith must have some feelings for Cloud. I just don't think they are as strong as her feelings for Zack. People can sometimes fall in love with more than one person. It happens. And each love can be different. Also we read things how we want to see them as well sometimes. The narrative has made it clear to me that Tifa is a love interest to Cloud. But it also heavily alludes to romance between him and Aerith. So we can both be right, just seeing it from different angles. Aerith matters to Cloud, but I think the writers have made it clear in Rebirth that Tifa matters a lot too. Anyways I'm not trying to debate it. These are just my perspectives on the topic 👍
@@CloudStrifeeeeeeactually in the OG it was Cloud’s mission to save Aerith, but in Remake they changed it and it became the team’s effort. Also when they showed up and rescued her wasn’t it Cloud and Tifa in the shot together. Cloud didn’t go running to Aerith saying, “Aerith!” when he found her. Tifa just does something simple like becomes a frog and he’s shouting, “Tifa!” and running after her. There are videos made alone of Cloud just saying, “Tifa!” because he says it so much. Also, the reason people love Zerith is that it was a confirmed mutual love. Whether you want to call it puppy love or actual love, Zack was head over heels in love with her. He tried entering Midgar, the bastion of Shinra, knowing that he might get killed because he was still in love with Aerith. And Zack hasn’t given up on her. He wants Cloud to save her because he loves her so much. True love is selfless like that. True Aerith does love Cloud at the end of Rebirth, but it seems obvious that the writers included all this Zack content for something big in the end. I loved Zerith long before being a Cloti because it was so sweet and they balanced each other out. I’ve even seen Cleriths refer to Tifa as a rebound or a friend with benefits because there is no way to deny the sexual tension between Cloud and Tifa. Yes, Cloud did look at Aerith in the red dress with awe, but I think that’s the only time it’s hinted that Cloud is physically attracted to Aerith. I mean she is a beautiful girl. I’m a straight female and I might have that same reaction to her in that dress XD Yes, Aerith is something precious, a special existence Cloud wants to protect, but that doesn’t mean he wants to makeout with her or have sex. And I mention sex because it is a huge part of a loving romantic relationship. If a guy or girl doesn’t want to have sex then it doesn’t really develop into a romantic relationship. It stays a friendship. It’s so obvious Cloud wants to be physically intimate with Tifa even Yuffie makes fun of him for it XD One could say it’s because Tifa is hot, and that’s true, but Cloud isn’t into just having sex with people or he would have gone along with Jessie, who was also hot and thirsty AF.
I've tried staying out of the shipping war but after all the videos I've seen I have to say something that will pass off clarity shippers and I apologize ahead of time if this comment gets long. Clarity shippers are exactly like sephiroth. Sephiroth has a traumatic experience and he can't handle it so he builds a false personality based off what he knows at the time but later when he learns the truth he comes up with a whole new twisted personality perverted by his original messed up thinking and fails to see the point or true meaning of things. The first time clarity shippers play the game they get traumatized from aerials death and twist the narrative based off what they know at the time thinking she'll come back or something but then when they beat the game and realize she's not coming back they come up with a completely different narrative to suit the twisted story they had originally came up with and fail to see all the thematic reasons aerith needs to die and stay dead. It's literally written in the music that aerith dies and tifa and cloud get together. When you first play the game and hear aeriths theme it sounds hopeful but sad as well and it doesn't make sense why until she dies and then it makes sense. Nobuo uematsu was told what happens to every character so he wrote each characters music to reflect them as a character and their journey through the story. I bring up the music vecause I watched videos analyzing the music and it said all that about aeriths song analyzing why nobody chose each individual note. With tifas song he called it home and the whole song is actually a musical representation of cloud and tifas story. It was written with what's called a home key where you start and withe same note but he changes this to fit the song. There's two instruments one to represent cloud and one for tifa and the song starts with both on the same note but instead of coming back to the same note they always play a note that sounds like the original but isn't and it's not till the end of her song that both instruments finally play the same original note. It's leaxactly like how cloud and tifa are constantly trying to come together but just when you think they will something happens drive a new wedge between them and its not till the end that they finally come together. I'd love to see clarity shippers argue that.
I like Clerith. I don’t think Cloud and Aerith will end together, it was a beautiful dream that ended. I wanted to believe Cloud&Tifa end together. But only Clifans say that. Most times i get vibes of Cloud ending unable of move along. That the game creators made the ending so ambiguous doesn’t help.
Thanks to the music argument, didn’t knew it. Yes, the initial intention was Clifa as endgame. I like that idea. But the saga has evolved since the first game.
I had to avoid watching all of the streams for this game because my playthrough got delayed, just literally finished it an hour ago. Now I can finally catch up. And yeah, Cloud/Tifa > everyone else.
Sometimes, I introspect (a little), wondering if I'm looking hard for the scenes/signs & we're jus echo-chamber reinforcing each other's thoughts in the same direction. But nah… we really didn't need to look too hard, jus needta keep eyes open, maybe consolidate some key moments, as Tana has done a great job with here. I sit fine with the lamenters who have different preferences & wished the case was different but most of the deniers are just lost cause. Nice presentations & discussions like this are mainly meant for us & open-minded ones. (At least for me) Nice little garden of love for Tifa's character & by extension because her deep unconditional love, Clo-Ti (since Cloud is still much a bone-head to me :P)
Not me re-watching this 3 times already because it's so good! (‘’❛ - „)❀ When Tana uploads a new video - and my reaction: ♬♪(ง ᵕωᵕ)ว♬♪ 💃🏻 ♪┏(・o･)┛♪┗ ( ･o･) ┓♪
I really like cloti but the 'nakama' line in the church isn't necessarily scene as platonic, the characters used could be romantic/platonic when they could've used just platonic. Kind of like cloud saying to Tifa, 'we're childhood friends, right'? That wouldn't mean there's nothing going on between them. And if you read the ultimania you'll find that Cloud and Aerith we're growing closer, instead of apart like you said. Again, I do love cloti, but your videos might hold more weight without the untruths. 😅😅 Great video though, I just hope you'll do more research instead of making things up. There were more things in the video which I noticed were like that but these are the main ones. I hope you take my advice!
Hey, this? This video? It's good. Tifa's good. Good work. Also a note here when you mention the camera panning away during the kiss; this was a trick done in old hollywood movies to imply sex in an era where it couldn't be shown. It's a pretty clear signpost of what happened in there if you know what to look for.
I gotta say it’s so annoying how toxic Claeriths got so upset by Cloud and Tifa kissing that they started saying total bs stuff like “it’s optional and non canon”, “Cloud holding Aerith’s hand is more romantic”, “everything confirms he loves Aerith”, “in Advent Children he is miserable with Tifa and would rather be with Aerith”, and then some claiming he only kissed her on the cheek and saying Cloud and Aerith will kiss in the final part. I love Aerith but that’s not happening.
😆Cloud and Aerith kiss in the final part...? Unless these Clerith's have powers like Aerith's who can see the future or that they work for Square Enix, at this point, we can tell that they are really really desperate that just stating the C x T date is optional is not good enough to convince them that it means nothing. And who parted their lips to kiss the cheeks. It will look like this 😙instead.
Them denying Cloud was leaning in to kiss Tifa in the Gongaga scene is also crazy. Cloud was looking at her lips, and we can use the painting behind Cloud as a reference for the position of his head. I'm convinced that's the reason the painting is there in the first place. We can literally see his nose move past a point on the painting but Clerith's deny it by saying it was just the camera zoom.
I'm so done with them. I adore Aerith and I avoid Clerith shippers like the plague cos they're downright militant and obnoxious under Cloti posts/videos etc. Don't want to resent my girl cos of annoying shippers that can't shut it. (Plus, I've been a hard-core Zerith for years since I adore their relationship more. They're fun and cute together sorry I'll shut up)
I want you to be aware that this woman used to harass Clerith fans and minors on ff7 message boards back in the day by spamming racial slurs and graphic images and also photoshopped a minors face onto scat pornography because of her hate for the ship. She is the last person you want to associate with even as a Cloti.
@@tanagreeknose7376 not to be rude but… it’s just a fact. Like, for example, Cloud is not in love with Barret, even if we have all the affinity in the world, it never gets romantic, that’s also a fact. Cloud has plenty of romantic moments with both Tifa and Aerith throughout both games and it’s very intentionally made. I’d be lost if anyone could legitimately deny this. Who asks intensely to a girl if she still loves her crush and tells her to forget about his ass. Who brings up said crush when he’s on a date with his other love interest too?? Like. It’s ok to acknowledge he loves both, your ship is still valid under this reality.
@@terencebc I think Zack was brought up as an answer to the last chapter in Nibelheim- Cloud remembers him this time and how crazy he was about Aerith. Cloud and Tifa also discuss him during their trek with Yuffie. That was the context I saw that from, which is why I didn't really think him bringing it up as a topic for discussion on the Gondola was weird or undermined his feelings for Tifa at all.
@@tanagreeknose7376 bringing up Zack is fine, but the way he insisted on Aerith’s feeling for him is obviously from a romantic framing. There’s countless examples like this throughout both games, the devs know. Also, Cloud’s feelings for Tifa aren’t compromised by his feelings for Aerith, it’s normal to have feelings for multiple people, Aerith is an example of that too, she also loves Zack.
@@terencebc You are free to imagine those interactions with Aerith as romantic if you want, but you saying it doesn't make it true. The scene your reference is exactly what a guy would say to his sister or best friend if he knew the man she was hung up on was likely dead. You see it as romantic because it's what you want to see or have been told. Ultimately the difference is that Cloud and Tifa have scenes that are explicitly romantic with no other explanation while Cloud and Aerith have moments that you can make romantic in your head if you squint at them long enough and that's what you want to see. There are no scenes with Aerith where making her Cloud's sister or close friend doesn't work comfortably. And yes, there are moments with Tifa you can see either way also. In fact, I see only 2 explicitly romantic interactions in all of Rebirth and both are Cloud and Tifa. Gongaga and the date. EVERYTHING else, with both girls, can be explained as close friendship, but those two scenes end this debate imo. No one can tell me with a straight face the developers wanted to put both girls on even footing but then give only one of them a kiss. That's an outlandish claim imo. None of this diminishes Aerith. She is a great character with a higher purpose in the story than love interest. Her job is to save the planet and when the time comes, she leaves Cloud and her friends behind to make the sacrifice to do her part. A youtuber named Dutchdread has a wonderful video going over the differences between the narrative and the plot in FFVII. I highly recommend it for anyone still confused.
I understood their relationship but it doesn't excuse Advent Children's depiction of it. And Advent Children doesn't just drop the ball on Tifa and Cloud relationship, it struggles with capturing characterizations in general, namely Cloud's. When I saw it as a 14 year old I liked the action scenes and found the aesthetic to be "cool" but I just wasn't experienced enough to view the story beyond the surface. In retrospect, that movie's story did not age well... The ambiguity in Tifa and Cloud relationship makes it hard to re watch. Pacing in the OG FF7 is hard when you take off the nostalgia glasses too. A major reason why the Remake trilogies take on Cloud and Tifa's relationship feels so refreshing is because it seems to utilize a lot of the imagination we used to fill in the gaps of the original and expanded materials. Their relationship feels more organic and fits the situations its developed in. We're actually seeing two young adults act like young adults and not two characters being brought together during necessary checkpoints (albeit Rebirth has a number of sections that do feel like that). Its seeing what they have done in Remake and Rebirth that really makes me want to see retellings in the expanded material as well. Because I shutter at the idea of seeing what we've gotten so far only to walk into the horrible regression that is Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.
I'll second that and say the Complete version is a lot better than the original release. Still not what I would have wanted, but better. I'm not sure if the pacing of the overall game is better necessarily in the remakes, but the pacing of Cloud and Tifa's relationship is a lot better. Having it build instead of having almost all of it jammed into the second half of the game.
@@TonyKanameKuran Jokes on you, I have and it didn't make it any better. If anything it made it worse, the "more context" did nothing to dispel the absurd mischaracterizations. I'm starting to think the people who defend Advent Children are either nostalgia blind or actually think depression is cool.
@@Otis-Spunks The only joke in this mofo is YOU, asswipe! You're in full fucking denial that Cloud had already chosen to be with the woman who saved his life and memory Tifa Lockhart. The problem is that you're too goddamn **tarded that Nojima is the writer, not your ignant ass! Go cry someplace else besides here. @ me again and I'll rip you a bigger assh4le!
My biggest issue with AC isn't the way it tries to dance around their relationship, but rather it's the way they regressed Cloud's character just for the sake of having him go through the same development again. That said, the complete version is still a lot better than the original.
I was trying to look for the part where Cloud said "We're comrades, aren't we?" on yt but I only found the ones that say "Yeah, Next time." So there's two versions of this scene, is that it? So the one he mentions about being a comrade is the high or low affection points? Anyways, I suddenly had a thought, who was the one who carried Tifa back to Cissnei's house, Barret or Cloud? I'm thinking Barret because of wobbly Cloud but he could have snapped out of it and volunteered. But I don't get why people ship Cloud x Aerith even after watching AC. I kinda feel bad for her because she's always the one taking the initiative to get his attention only to get a lukewarm response. Unlike her with Zack which complement one another. So I was happy to see that she was with Zack in the other life at the end of AC, hence, shipping them.
Funny enough regardless who carried her back to Cissnei’s house Cloud is still the one sitting in her room just waiting for her to wake up with that pitiful look of guilt on his face. I wouldn’t be surprised if he begged to stay in the room with her and never left the entire time till the next day
@@Step43099 The carrying part it's hard to say but I can't imagine Cloud not carrying her if he was physically able to. As to the staying in the room with her, yea, I'd bet money he doesn't leave her room and doesn't eat or sleep either. He's got to be experiencing unfathomable levels of emotional pain at that time. Tifa is still able to pull him back together though. It's pretty much her superpower.
Yeah the JP and the English are different. In the JP, he says 'we're comrades/friends' and I think the English is 'Why not?' Then the other line I think if you get Aerith in Ch8/12 are 'yeah next time' or 'of course in the JP'. No matter what line you get though, almost nothing changes in the scene except what Aerith repeats from him. She still looks sad after and says at least I know where we stand, going on about the difference between like and 'like'. That's actually a ToTP reference b/c Tifa knows she likes Cloud but isn't sure she loves him, then realizes she loves him at the water tower. Aerith seems to be having the opposite realization that she likes Cloud, but it might not be romantic love.
@@StygianStilettosGamer I've finished the game but I can't recall the dialogue I got for this scene. The 'yeah next time' was in chapter 14 actually (both the eng and Jap have this. And I only came across this version while searching through youtube), when they hug in the church in the alternate timeline. But this video shows a different response from Cloud with the "Why not," so I was a little confused. But after much research, I got my answer now. It's the affection points thingy. With these two versions, when Cloud says, 'Nakama...' and then Aerith says, '"Now I know where you and I stand" it is clear cut, they're just friends to Cloud. But 'yeah next time' is a bit ambiguous. It can be platonic (Why can't someone want to make more memories with their friend, right?) or maybe a slight crush. I know that regardless of what his response is, her dialogue doesn't change much. But how the players interpret Cloud's feelings from his response to her, is going to be a matter of debate. I don't care so much about Aerith's or Tifa's feelings for him because theirs is obvious. It's more on deciphering Cloud's. That dude is an enigma.
Stop treating Cloud like an autistic character, lol. You get a choice in the game for a reason. Go with Tifa, kiss, go with Aerith, cross fingers...To most Cloti moments there's a more or less equal amount of Clerith moments that slightly differ in their grander meaning, but all equally telling of a deep romantic interest based on the players choice. You're talking about what the writers wanted to say, are you kidding me? You understand the game was designed to be ambivalent and neutral about a lot of things in order to not flop immediately right? They put in more than one love interest on purpose. And what is it about people having ship wars with the only two other contenders being dead...it's like, yeah. Cloud and Tifa apocalypse survivors so naturally they're canon...lol.
Woa woa woa... who said anything about Cloud being autistic? And there's nothing neutral and ambivalent about kissing one character but not kissing another. You can't get less neutral than that.
@@tanagreeknose7376 You get this choice, if so your heart desires. You can also ignore Tifa completely. By autistic I mean fans who ignore Cloud's choices in the game, especially in the beginning when he takes his first steps as the main character, with an individual compass. It's also mega annoying when people selectively assume that his lived out fantasy isn't a primary expression of his character development. People talk about canon..There is nothing more canon about Cloud than making choices and living with the consequences of making some bad ones. That's part of his hero's journey. If you lump in Clerith with the works, considering how many heartfelt moments they shared then it also clicks because he ultimately feels responsible for her death. But to claim his only love interest is Tifa, unwaveringly from the beginning is smothering the character and reducing him to being this beloved special needs boy, with Tifa volunteering to be his endearing caretaker. Like Forest Gump and Jenny. If Aerith and Tifa were swapped, this scenario would've actually worked better.
@@ChoompaLoompa1985-uw8lw It's definitely a gameplay choice, but it's also a choice that Cloud makes as a result of the majority of players getting Tifa's affection wheel to max. We don't make him kiss her, we just unlock the scenario that allows us to see how Cloud acts with her specific character. Cloud definitely feels responsible for Aerith's death as he was right there, but as we see in Advent Children and subsequent official materials, he's dealing with PTSD and the fact that he's dying from Geostigma. He also feels responsible for Zack's death. But Zack and Aerith are described as cherished friends, who also acknowledge that he doesn't "belong" in the white space with them, but with the living, his family, and the children. Tifa and Cloud function as Denzel and Marlene's adoptive family. There's nothing weird about Cloud having one very specific love interest from beginning to end. Romance can be a major motivator. Nojima literally described it to you in "2000 gil". I didn't make this stuff up. He's not a special needs boy, he's a young man in love. It's a normal thing.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Actually the default option on the skywheel is Aerith, triggered by either maxing her out or averaging the stats. Yeah, Cloud is dying from Geostigma, which means his flashbacks and migraines didn't stop. He is still suffering, searching and hoping. He's sleeping in the church where he first met Aerith. The song 'Hollow' is Cloud's ode to the woman who came into his life as abruptly as she left, touched his heart in a way no one ever has and left behind a mixture of painful memories. Her life story, her ability to see and know things beyond the senses enchanted Cloud and made him want to stay close to her no matter what. His feelings for her are real. We know this because of his empathic responses to her hidden anguish, which hardly anyone manages to notice. His probing curiousity, though partly prompted by the false context of his imaginary world is gently nudging her to be candid with him, holding nothing back, as she's approaching the realisation that their time together is short. She goes on two dates with him. One on the Skywheel, the other in her dream. There is no Zack in the picture, Sephiroth is after her, and she chooses to help Cloud, because he is more important. To the story, to us, to her. Cloud's feelings for Aerith are unrelated to his feelings towards his childhood crush. He's messed up for most of the game and there's no reason to assume his canon choices in the game should necessarily favor Tifa. He distances himself from her on multiple occasions, specifically in Kalm after she accuses him of not being there for her 5 years ago. She wasn't there for him either until he showed up sick in Midgar for which he is grateful, but still...you have the option to not apologise for it.
@@ChoompaLoompa1985-uw8lw This was so wonderfully said, makes me happy being a Cloud and Aerith fan seeing such critical thought and analysis. Keep speaking the truth!
I always got the impression Aerith was putting Cloud in the friendzone before she hugs him in the church. And yea Cloud is still a guy. He might have stronger feelings for Tifa, but if an opportunity comes up with Aerith he ain't saying no. But anyway I don't ship one or the other, but it's pretty obvious that Cloud and Tifa is the canon relationship. It's heavily implied that Cloud and Tifa make a connection between their private parts in the OG.
They are not canon but fanon lol. If they are canon Nojima and Nomura would say it and this war would have been over ages ago. If they simply said “Cloud and Tifa ended up together romantically, are married and have their own children” and actually show it there would no longer be any more debates. Dirge of Ceberus material confirms that Cloud and Tifa are just childhood friends nothing that states they are romantically together. Even the official twitter account for FF7R friendzoned Cloud and Tifa by posting a picture of Cloud giving Tifa a flower on Friendship Day. How are you going to say that Cloud has stronger feelings for Tifa when he didn’t even cry when he thought she was dead and at the beginning (Nibelheim Flashback). While Aerith didn’t even die he cried like no tomorrow. His love for Aerith has always been stronger. Even Hollow theme song is about Aerith . He never cried for Tifa once or sing a song about her.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee Well when a man and a woman love each other very much, sometimes they get naked and make a physical connection between their man and woman parts. I dunno man what more do you want? Square want guys and girls like you debating it. It's kinda fun to think about and entertain ideas one way or the other, but Nojima and Nomura and the other writers of the first game made in pretty clear that Cloud and Tifa banged. Hey man if you prefer Cloud and Aerith as a couple, great. They have a different dynamic than the Cloud/Tifa relationship and that's probably what you identify more with. I don't care either way. I'm just letting you know, when the writers heavily imply that Cloud and Tifa did adult things with each other, that probably means they are a canon couple. But it's all good. Zack and Aerith and probably getting it on like rabbits in the lifestream.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee Well when a man and a woman love each other very much, sometimes they get naked and make a physical connection between their man and woman parts. I dunno man what more do you want? Square want guys and girls like you debating it. It's kinda fun to think about and entertain ideas one way or the other, but Nojima and Nomura and the other writers of the first game made in pretty clear that Cloud and Tifa did it. Hey man if you prefer Cloud and Aerith as a couple, great. They have a different dynamic than the Cloud/Tifa relationship and that's probably what you identify more with. I don't care either way. I'm just letting you know, when the writers heavily imply that Cloud and Tifa did adult things with each other, that probably means they are a canon couple. But it's all good. Zack and Aerith are probably getting it on like rabbits in the lifestream.
@@rsoxboyassuming that Cloud and Tifa actually had segs. How are you so sure that they actually made love to each other? They simply fell asleep and they still had clothes on. If you are so sure that they embraced each other under the highwind, why do they choose to sleep in separate beds in AC? Make it make sense 😭 Also Marlene has already debunked Zerith. You and ur delusions. She is not into Zack and even rejected him in the lifestream in a novel.
@@rsoxboy Zack: "Man, you know Aerith. Out of all the girls I've gotten along with, you truly are the best. After that mission, we could've stayed the way we were and might have been able to continue to go out with each other after I returned home. I hate Sephiroth. And I hate Shinra who's been hiding all the stuff they've been doing." Aerith: "Someone who's gotten along with so many girls can never become a lover." Zack: "How mean. I'm nice to everyone." Aerith: "And that's your bad point. You're not simplistic and awkward like Cloud. Zack: "But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith." Aerith: "Only if I get really lonely. Goodnight, Zack." Zerith debunked.
Another interesting Thing in the japanees Version he uses a rarely yoused Word for love when he goes kike those we hate ... the Word is rarely used because it describes a very deep love 😊
@@tanagreeknose7376Another interesting Thing in the japanees Version he uses a rarely yoused Word for love when he goes like those we hate ... the Word is rarely used because it describes a very deep love 😊
It always makes me smile when shippers accuse the other side of being toxic, despite usually sitting on a very long thread of vitriol. There are idiots on both sides. Besides, there's no right perspective on this. No-one knows better than the devs and they themselves say there is no romantic Canon.
You come here, spewing all the standard Clerith talking points from the last 30 years, including my new favorite "hAnDholDIng iS JuSt as RomANtic As kISsing in Japan.", which is nothing but pure copium, not to mention false. Then, when you get called out, instead of trying to defend your ideas, which you can't because you likely just came to troll in the first place, you run away and start a new comment crying about being a victim. Here's some advice for you, don't spout foolishness and you won't be treated like a fool. By the way, did you french kiss your mother yet? I had no issue holding my mother's hand. Odd isn't it? It's almost as if one of those things is explicitly romantic and the other isn't. Respond or not, I don't care, you were never interested in any honest discussion.
These toxic shippers are the main reason I quit FF7. They're nasty and rude. I can't stand them invading each other's spaces and spouting hate about their favorite characters and opinions.
It’s almost as if Cloud is written as a complex character who is conflicted so that it’s possible for him to FEEL a certain way but be unable or unwilling to act on those feelings. This is supposed to be a tragedy, after all.
The game is, and always will be ambiguous in regards to the love triangle. I can list plenty of Clerith moments too, and considering everything Aerith does and says in the OG, Remake, and Rebirth, to say she doesn’t have genuine romantic feelings for Cloud is to say she is toxic. Even in the canon novel based after her death, Cloud is addressed as her beloved/koibito, and that there were many things she wanted to tell him, but she didn’t know what to say, or how. Nojima when talking about his novel, spoke about Cloti in a couple context, then immediately spoke of Clerith in the same context. In CoT and AC Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is uncertain, and nothing after confirms anything. I seriously doubt anything significant is gonna change with part 3 or something else, but we’ll see.
Sorry, but the words "love triangle" does not exist. In addition to that, Aerith had told Cloud (in Remake) not to fall in love with her. "...IT'S NOT REAL!" You're taking things from Nojima out of context. It's not wise for you to create bullshit. Furthermore, Cloud & Tifa's promises are irreplaceable and you know it. Just you wait until the conclusion. Tifa will play the leading role and repairs Cloud's f*cked up memory... leading to their confession to each other... romantically.
I really really don't think this ambiguity is a thing anymore sure it was back in the OG days in AC he takes a vacation after the church scene asks Tifa too to close the bar for the time being his talk with kyrie he straight up says the 4 of them are family too... In dirge they no longer wear the pink ribbons anymore either. Now it's pretty noticeable who Cloud actually is into in Rebirth in the Remake it was more ambiguous sure but the moment he opened up to her with his vulnerability on top of actually having the first kiss scene in FF7 universe this love triangle is pretty much dead but if they do actually do something in part 3 as you want them to then I hope you will like butchering Cloud's character who does all the stuff for Tifa only to do a 180.
@@TonyKanameKuran The fact you had to swear is pretty telling. And the love triangle was created by Square-Enix from the start, so take your Cloti goggles off. If there is no triangle, nobody would be debating it, yet they are even 27yrs after the OG release. Not to mention this video wouldn’t of even been made, since there would be no reason for it. A dev has already spoke on the resolution scene, and specifically said that her words are at odds with how she truly feels. It’s clear she’s just trying to spare him any pain, which is precisely what she tries to do again at the end of Rebirth. How is it taking it out of context, the man himself referred to Cloud and Tifa in a romantic context, then immediately after did the same for Cloud and Aerith. And her calling Cloud her beloved/koibito etc is in the OTWTAS novel, in multiple languages, there’s no getting around that. That’s great, glad he gets fixed up. And there’s two versions of the Highwind scene for a reason. I don’t think they get into a relationship after this, as even after the game’s end when they are setting up a new home, Tifa thinks he’ll leave once it’s done. Not a sign of a relationship, or not a strong one at least. They then spend the majority of CoT and AC either not getting on, or away from each other. They seemingly don’t sleep in the same bed, and on a few occasions Tifa is stated to have maternal feelings for Cloud. And by the end of AC or in Dirge, what their relationship is isn’t clear or specified, which is why it’s ambiguous.
@@thebrigade7684 Where and when does he talk about a vacation and to close the bar? Even if it’s true, it doesn’t confirm they are in a relationship, and neither does telling Kyrie and Evan that they are a family since Barret is also included in that. Nothing at the end of AC or in Dirge explains what their relationship is, it could be a couple, or just a family of friends as Barret also lives with them as of Dirge. He kinda had to, he almost killed her, so he needed to open up one way or another. She learned the truth of a childhood memory, and he obviously feels awful for what he did and believes he’s unworthy of being called a hero. It’s a great moment, a rare vulnerable scene. The kiss is proven non-canon as of the Rebirth Ultimania. None of the Gold Saucer dates are canon, they were just a fun addition apparently. The devs could easily make things canon by only allowing one choice in those kind of scenes, but they don’t and still provide multiple choices. When did I state I want them to do stuff? I doubt the ending will change too much. I simply pointed out there’s plenty of Clerith moments too, and that the relationships between the trio is, and continues to be, ambiguous. Not sure how it would butcher his character, since he’s done plenty for both. None of them belong to one another, they aren’t property. Though on that note, everyone commenting on this vid, or most, want to butcher Aerith’s character by having her be toxic, toying with Clouds emotions. All the flirting, getting close to him, holding his hand, treating him like a boyfriend in the final date etc, are all terrible behaviour if she either doesn’t have feelings for him, or is unsure.
There is a reason why they sleep in separate rooms in AC. Its because they aren’t romantically involved. Possibly due to Cloud being loyal to his soulmate Aerith. I mean the dude constantly talks about wanting to reunite with Aerith in the spin off games. Tifa obviously can’t stand this and has the nerve to actually make him decide and choose between her or Aerith in AC. Moreover, Cloud choosing to sleep on the floor in Aerith’s church (their spot) speaks 1000 words. Being in the presence of Aerith is what brings him comfort and peace and its obvious that Tifa can’t give him that which is why he leaves. There are hints that Cloud possibly wanted to die because he wanted to be reunited with Aerith. Why would Tifa say “So what? You’re gonna give up and die…is that it?” Even when she entered the church and saw his makeshift bed she could already tell. Aerith obviously doesn’t want that for him because he has so many people (not just Tifa) counting on him in protecting the planet. Notice how a scolding from Tifa in AC barely did anything for him? But when Aerith gives him a few simple words he immediately felt inspired to start forgiving himself. Compare the final cutscene when Cloud gets healed from Geostigma. Tifa gives Cloud this flirtatious look and he is seen smiling normally and not that interested but the moment he catches a glimpse of Aerith he is completely stunned by her beauty (Just like how he was stunned at her wearing her red and white dress in Remake and Rebirth). The way she looks back at him and smiles. Its obvious that Cloud’s true love is and has always been Aerith.
Disclaimer: NOT a shipper; I like both characters. Prefer Aerith as a character but don't care about the love triangle at all. Cloud and Tifa's relationship is really not something to idolise. It has psychological entanglements (even without Sephiroth's manipulation) that are borderline unhealthy and would realistically end up in emotional codependency due to mutual trauma. Furthermore, they don't have much personality chemistry at all. I like Tifa but she'd never be able to pull Cloud out of his shell the way Aerith does (Tifa's better in this regard in the remake series than in the OG to be fair, but still pales compared to Aerith). The chemistry Cloud and Tifa have is tender and affectionate, and they are clearly attracted to one another, but there's not a single moment where I watch them and think a full relationship would be able to sustain itself. Even after what happens after the Northern Crater, for sure Cloud is indebted to Tifa. But debt isn't love. I think they'd be the kind of clumsy-but-endearing teenage 'starter' relationship that helps each other grow but isn't going to last. I mean, think of the context of the 'under the Highwind' moment. They literally could die the next day. Feelings and vulnerabilities are gonna be running high + the "no regrets" mentality. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they awkwardly brushed it under the rug after surviving with that exact justification. Just because they have mutual feelings doesn't mean they'd live happily ever after. Like it or not, Aerith and Cloud obviously have chemistry for days. A truly strong relationship has elements of the kind of friendship they have. But that said, Cloud puts Aerith on a pedestal as some kind of messianic figure as indicated by some of his dialogue on the Highwind insinuating he thought she sacrificed herself intentionally and Aerith's feelings are obviously complicated by everything with Zack. I'll agree their love isn't really romantic, I'd argue it's actually 'above' romantic. It's a powerful and special bond that doesn't need romance to make it special, whereas without said romantic elements, Cloud and Tifa would just be kinda awkward friends. If Cloud and Aerith were hypothetically to end up together, I think they would likely have more longevity, precisely because they are more natural friends. Anyway, TLDR; FF7 is not really about romance at all and while there's nothing inherently wrong with shipping, make sure you aren't idealising and potentially damaging your own love lives in the process.
Why would an introvert need to be pulled out of their shell. There’s nothing wrong with an introvert. So you mean to tell me the way Cloud acted with Yuffie at the end of their date had to do with Aerith pulling him out of his shell? Just save it and accept the story for what it is. No amounts of “I think” and “I feels” is going to make you right.
@@resetbutton7982 Yeah, I know there's nothing wrong with being an introvert. I am one. But Cloud is repressed and extremely insular. Look at how he is at the beginning of the game. Sharp and blunt. Yes, he's more friendly to Tifa, but he's also pretty matter of fact with her. Tifa doesn't challenge him at all except for "you're scaring me", she doesn't know how to handle his dysfunctions. She's too soft and also damaged herself. In a way there's too much history between them, whereas Aerith has no preconceived notions of who he is and is able to be more natural. She also has more emotional intelligence than anyone in Avalanche by a pretty wide margin. She is good for Cloud's mental health, that's why he's so drawn to her like a little lost child (y'know, 'cause he actually *is*). Yuffie can also pull Cloud out of his shell, because she's brazen and endearingly high-energy. But she's not a romantic option, is she? And even if she was, she'd be "too much" for Cloud, personality-wise. Also, this is the same date where Cloud says "emotions aren't my thing". What a great basis for any relationship, huh? Romance is a footnote in FF7, it's about trauma and identity with an overarching theme of "life". Literally none of my analysis is based on my feelings, either. It's based on my 10+ years experience studying relationships, interpersonal and intrapersonal. So, uh, check yourself.
@@resetbutton7982 Except the story is not a love story at all. The game is about the planet dying and focuses on cloud aerith and sephiroth for obvious reasons. But it also highlights the bonds that cloud never really had has a child and finding the truth about himself. And I’m not saying the others such as tifa and barret aren’t important cause they are and they shouldn’t be undermined by any means, what I am saying that calling this just a love story disrespects the concept of what ff7 is about. And he’s right cloud and tifa have trauma they aren’t going to fix their issues just by kissing. Cloud honestly isn’t ready for a relationship for either girl he has to figure out who is he which is why I appreciate how aerith wanted to meet the real him and told him to focus on himself.
All cleriths do is cope lol he holds tifas hands multiple times in remake and rebirth so what is y’all’s point? Imagine having just crumbs to go off of..y’all are dedicated for sure 😂
Why you guys can't accept that clerith is the main cannon ship. The game clearly shows that. When affinity system is neutral it defaults to aerith as your date. Even in the loveless play when you choose Barrett or red as a date the game also defaults to aerith as your companion.
LOL. After Rebirth, laughter is the only response this deserves. Rebirth threw so much dirt on this already dead ship. Not a single thing in the actual game leads you to believe Cloud has any feelings of romantic love for Aerith. Only your own head canon, as always.
They sure have been coping hard these last few months. Man, it must suck so hard to ship Cloud with Aerith. Especially when evidence after evidence keeps piling up against you, for the past 20+ years. Sorry dude, it's time to move on, you're only hurting yourself in the long run by sticking with a lie when the truth is obvious. Worst part is, most of you know it too, you're in deep denial.
They sure have been coping hard these last few months. Man, it must suck so bad to ship Cloud with Aerith. Especially when evidence after evidence keeps piling up against you, and has been for the past 20+ years. It's time to move on dude, you're only hurting yourself in the long run by sticking with a lie. You're in deep denial, and sad part is, most of you probably know it.
Looks like we have an intruder. You're in critical denial. Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart are the main *CANON* ship. The story may begin with a flower girl named Aerith, but the *REAL* story begins when Cloud Strife met Tifa Lockhart... once upon a time in a peaceful land named NIBELHEIM. Secondly, you're denying again. The affinity system being neutral doesn't automatically indicate Aerith as your date. If neither of your date surpass 50%, you'll end up dating with the boys-- Cid, Vincent, and Cait Sith. You don't now a f*cking thing about Final Fantasy VII in general. Furthermore, Aerith is dead and will not be coming back. And lastly... your grammer needs a shit ton of work, moran. At the conclusion, Tifa is gonna save her boyfriend (Cloud) as they enter the lifestream and restore his lost memory.
I agree! It's also a love story between Cloud and Aerith. And Cloud and B-Dawg. And anyone else you want it to be. There is no canon. It's interpretive, Japanese storytelling. SE have a group of people dedicated to ensure the balance between our two heroines is maintained. Every couple has their time to shine, without SE ever confirming one way or the other. They are masterful at always keeping it just obscure enough to allow freedom of interpretation. If SE wanted it to be Tifa, AC would have been very different indeed (they could have had their own children, shared bed etc). If they wanted it to be Aerith, they wouldn't have deleted Aerith in the credits of AC. It's for everyone but there has never been a confirmed relationship 'canon'. Truly a game for everyone.
Player choice in FF7 is just another of many illusions presented to the player in the first third of the game. The reality is that almost none of the players choices have any effect on anything at all and when Cloud regains his self and his mind, player choice disappears entirely. More relevant to this discussion though, there are NO choices the player can make that result in Cloud being romantic with anyone but Tifa. You cannot force him to kiss anyone else, no matter what you want or what choices you make.
@@talmanes4589 The big event that CloTis talk about is under the Highwind. That, itself is a result of a choice, with a low and high affection route. The low affection has little to no romantic implication, whilst the high has lots. This demonstrates choice impacting right up to the end of the game. To your point, there is no choice in the game that can stop Cloud from seeing Aerith's hand and stating that he is going to see Aerith in the Promised Land. Are you referring to the kiss in Rebirth? You're looking at that from a very American perspective. In Japan, the 'lovers knot' as Cloud forms with Aerith is very meaningful. Aerith is more popular in Japan, Tifa in the US, hence providing for the respective audiences. That said, the dates were a bit of fanfiction anyway 'removed from the plots of the game.' Not playing down Tifa, simply stating what the Devs have stated for decades - there is no relationship canon.
@@talmanes4589 One thing I would love to know from you though... Would you be happy with the idea that Cloud loved Aerith, then took solace in Tifa once Aerith died? Because IF (which I don't believe) there is a relationship canon, going by the FF7 OG Marketing, it would be that.
@@Silverfish-qv8ig Marketing's only purpose is to sell games and it is not reliable in any way as to the actual plot. In fact, marketing is very often purposefully misleading. Do you think it significant that in the Rebirth state of play trailer they showed part of the Tifa date? Does that make the Tifa date THE canon date because it was in a trailer? I will entertain the theory that Cloud's Soldier persona is attracted to Aerith because of Zack's memories and it is very interesting that Cloud's alter ego "dies" very shortly after Aerith dies. It also explains why Aerith tells him that even if he falls for her it isn't real, because she knows it isn't the real him. It's a solid theory I saw from a sensible Clerith fan. Basically, Cloud has two personalities inside of him and one (the soldier persona) loves Aerith while the real Cloud loves Tifa. Fake persona Cloud then dies when Cloud's mind is healed with Tifa in the lifestream. Aerith actually has no interaction at all with the real Cloud so logically she can't be in love with him. She's attracted to the Cloud that's mimicking Zack, not actual Cloud. She dies shortly after saying she'd like to get to know the real him without ever doing so. Also, when I said that choice in FF7 was an illusion, I meant all of it. None of the player's choices really affect anything at all. Sure there are 2 versions of Under the HIghwind scene, but it happens regardless of choice and Cloud affirms that their feelings match in both versions, the only difference is the S E X. In one version they have sex that night, in the other version, they probably have sex a week later. Cloud and Tifa are going together to see Aerith at the end of the OG. Early prediction here, Part 3 will not have an affection system at all and there will only be one single canon version of the scene going forward. They have already done this with things like having Cloud give Tifa the flower which used to be a choice. The new versions imo, have less of even the illusion of choice than the OG game did. The cold hard truth is Cloud only has romantic options with Tifa and no one else. No one else has ANY romantic options of ANY kind in any version of FF7. Then they come along in Rebirth and have Cloud actively friend zone Aerith and then kiss Tifa and only Tifa while Aerith is alive and available. That seals the deal as far as I'm concerned. Kisses in FF are rare and meaningful and until they have Cloud kiss someone else, which they won't imo, I'm done arguing the obvious. He might feel something for Aerith, or part of him might, but it isn't strong enough to spur him to action the way his feelings for Tifa do and it wasn't important enough for them to even explore in Rebirth. People can hold onto it if they want to, and write their fanfiction to their hearts content, but I find it laughable at this point. One more thing, that Japanese culture BS you're pushing is entirely false. Just something desperate Cleriths made up to help them cope. That Aerith is more popular in Japan thing has been floated for years although I've seen no one offer any evidence of this. Even if it is true it sure didn't stop them from doing what they did in Rebirth. They have a story to tell, they aren't making changes based on polls imo anyway. The kiss is meaningful in every culture and more romantic than handholding, even in Japan, so cut the crap with that.
I think you're getting a little worked up about this, so I'll leave you be. But just so you're aware, the Aerith handholding is called koibito tsunagi. Look it up! Or even better, try doing it to one of your male friends and see how they react. As it's a purely platonic thing, they won't mind! I work for a Video Games publisher based in Tokyo. I do have experience in this field, promise! You are correct. In the OG, it is Tifa or no-one... Or rather, for a concrete act, it's Tifa or no-one. But again, That's a choice the player has and a very real one. In the low affection scenario, they are quite clearly portrayed as friends. Definitely a sweet moment, but nothing happens. In the high affection, I absolutely agree. But that's a distinct player choice. Surely, there's a part of you that agrees with the following; 'If it was always clear cut with Tifa, why didn't they allow Cloud and Tifa to be happy in AC? Why did they adopt? Why couldn't Cloud tell Tifa he loved her in On a way to a Smile?' And you also haven't acknowledged that the devs themselves have stated that the dates are fanservice and 'removed from the plot.' That includes Aerith's too. Again, not talking down Tifa - she's great. But there is no relationship Canon. There never will be. I know that for certain as it's rather profitable for SE to keep this debate unresolved. O and the 'Aerith in Japan' theory comes from multiple surveys in different comics and websites over here. Tifa is popular too, but Aerith is on a another level. Everytime they design Aerith's face for a version of the game, the Japanese go nuts - it's too manly, or not beautiful enough or too western. Crazy. There's a rather unfair myth amongst the devs in Japan that US gamers are basic and horny when it comes to romance. I suggest that's why Tifa's scenes are the way they are, but that's just conjecture on my part.
Top 10 things I’m looking forward to the most in Part 3. I will be coming back to this comment in 2-3 years time to see if I’m right or wrong. This comment will NOT be edited:- 1. Debunking Zerith further. Aerith no longer into Zack and is loyal to her true love and soulmate; Cloud Strife. Zack will reunite with Cissnei in Gongaga. 2. Aerith wearing another dress. Possibly a Yellow wedding dress (getting married to Cloud in the church, their spot). 3. Aerith non-optional kiss. 4. Highwind scene being an optional fanservice scene like when Cloud kissed her on the cheek in the Gondola. Debunking the idea that Cloud and Tifa made love to each other under the Highwind. 5. Aerith is alive and stronger than ever in another world because of what Cloud did for her in Rebirth. 6. Cloud confirming to the party that he does NOT have Zack Memories after regaining his true self. Debunking the misinformation that Clotis love to spread saying that Cloud only likes Aerith because he has Zack Memories. 7. Tifa apologizing to Cloud for indirectly bullying him and ignoring him as a kid along with the other boys during the lifestream scene. 8. Cloud and Aerith confirming their love for each other. Ending the shipping war for good. 9. Aerith getting her own scene to counter the Highwind scene. It will be the canon scene that ends up appearing during the credits. 10. Cloud and Aerith duet for the final theme song. 11. Tifa ends up with either Johnny, Emilio, Barret or alone after being friendzoned by Cloud. If I’m wrong about most of these I will probably never touch FF7 again and will quit the franchise for good. I will GLADLY take the L. Ya’ll can roast me in the comments 😂
If you only like FF7 because of your Clerith ship you might as well leave now lil bro 💀. Tifa and Cloud have intertwined character arcs to complete that are still left while Aerith is basically done outside of the concept of lifestream and potentially seeing Zack again
@@thebrigade7684We will find out in part 3 lil sis and yes Clerith is THAT important to me. Cloud and Aerith are the faces of FF7 lol what are you on about. These two characters made Sephiroth fall to his knees during the final battle and forced him to tactically retreat. They are a badass battle couple and I’d say its a valid reason to like FF7.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee its really not. You clearly only like clerith. Not FF7. This has to be a joke. FF7 is not even about the romance. Its about the fight against sephiroth and shinra, and accepting yourself for who you are. Please never call yourself a fan of FF7.
@@bellle6206I don’t need a lustful Cloti shipper to tell me that… a lustful cloti shipper such as yourself that enjoys optional fanservice scenes like a kiss to the cheek that forcefully turns the MC into a cheater by the end of the game 😅
Cloud cares for aerith but he not in love with her if he was then he would of been okay with all the date and would of sat next to her when she kept patting the ground my friend
At that point cloud believes she's still has feelings for zack, that's why he is acting stiff and nervous. Later on that date when aerith assures it's him she wants to be with, cloud straight up takes her hand and interlocks it. I consider it as more than just caring.
No babes, YOU'RE in love with Aerith. Not Cloud. His friendship with Aerith is important to him just like all his friendships he's made throughout his journey. From the ones that are still alive and those who have departed, he treasures each of them dearly. "There's not a thing I don't cherish!" - that's the quote he told Sephiroth in ACC after he receives his peep talk from Zack. You can enjoy your fanon ship, heck I have multiple fanon ships that didn't become canon but I don't go lying about how this character "is truly in love with this character although the author/devs have made it more than obvious that the main love interest is this other character they just don't know what they're talking about" for 27 years of my life. 3 decades of lying and falsifying quotes by using AI of all things recently like at one point y'all need to pack up and ride off into the sunset and start making fanart/fanfic to contribute into the shipping space of your fanon ships.
@@sujithg6902 no he takes her hand after she says please let me just have this moment after they have talk about zack . At this point aerith is being truthful and vulnerable but she addresses the fact she was attracted to cloud because he reminds her of zack and when every she try to re-create a moment she had with zack with cloud it doesn’t work the same she realizes that there different but something not quite right with cloud he hiding his true self at this point I do believe she trying to move on and try to address the issue and but we all know she won’t be able to solve it or be around too. Now like I said he cares for her so he indulges her a little and let her have this moment by holding her hand . It really not that hard to understand her date . If your trying to move on from an old relationship you don’t do it by getting with someone who reminds you off them a few similarities is OK but not what cloud has.
@@sujithg6902 He's not acting stiff and nervous about Aerith's feelings for Zack. He feels bad, he didn't remember a friend that was with him in Nibelheim and had an entire flash back of Zack yapping about how much he loves Aerith and then at the bridge he had another flashback (a half truth/lie) Zack dying at that spot. Like he talked shit about him because he thought Zack ghosted Aerith but that was false. Again, Ben Sabin added extra text that didn't belong in the actual dialogue in that scene. She never tells him in actual text that she wants to be with him, all she said was she's trying to find him and that's why Cloud responds to her like she's crazy. Like hello girl, are you blind? I'm right here next to you. The hand hold isn't romantic in that scene whatsoever Aerith had asked Cloud for that handhold "just until the rides over" and he's being an actual good friend because Aerith is stressed about everything. So he holds her hand but he also holds hands with everyone in the party at one point or another. So if it's romantic for Aerith in your context then it's romantic for everyone else as well. Then she thanked Cloud about everything but Cloud doesn't feel like he didn't anything to be thanked for. BUT I GUESS EAT YOUR CRUMBS LOVE??
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I know that this subject has a lot of people fired up, but let's make sure to keep it respectful in the comments! 😁 Thank you.
Remake made me like Tifa, Rebirth made me love Tifa. I can only imagine what Part 3 will do to me.
Accurate. Tifa was PHENOMENAL in Rebirth.
Man this video was so good. Your presence, delivery, and editing is fantastic, and your succinct and evidence-based way of presenting these facts so seamlessly is top notch. You detailed how Rebirth wove Cloud and Tifa's relationship directly into the center of the plot by way of the villian's objectives, and I particularly enjoyed how you illustrated the juxtapositions between Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith, as well as the way in which the narrative has ALWAYS presented the "idea" of the Cloud/Aerith relationship and the way in which Rebirth solidifies and confirms what that always was and always will be with CLOSURE in this game.
You made so many good points, including a few that I hadn't picked up, like the camera work of GS kiss compared to the OG HW scene, or the implication of Nojima's statement about them not realizing that line would be "something so important". I hadn't read deeply enough into that statement, but now that I have, I think it is a huge reason that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is being portrayed so much more explicitly now that they have the chance to tell this story again. LOVE IT AND LOVE YOU!!!
This is a great post, and I find myself agreeing with everything you said. The video is absolutely top notch and very well constructed.
This comment has me shook! You always know just what to say! *is Jessie* 😂 I'm honored that I brought some things to your attention as well! Eternal love to CloTi and to you for being so supportive! 😊❤😊🎉
Literally the only reason I got so into FF7 was because Rebirth. I was just instantly hooked to Cloud and Tifa’s relationship. I can’t wait to replay Remake so I can appreciate it more because I definitely wasn’t hooked to it like Rebirth has me lol.
I’m basically the same way tbh lmao. I’m not into shipping but after seeing some of Cloud and Tifas scenes in Rebirth I became rather intrigued so I decided it look more into the story and the characters and needless to say Cloud and Tifa just work so well in my brain honestly. It’s not close
"Because Rebirth" is definitely valid 😙
@@tanagreeknose7376 It really is totally valid. I though Remake gave both ladies pretty equal treatment and it came down to personal preference or bias. But Rebirth doesn't even try to treat them equally. I was amazed at the focus on their relationship this early in the story as well as a lack of development for Cloud and Aerith. Especially the focus from Sephiroth. Constantly threatened by the primary villain is a big red flag as to who is most important.
Wonderful video btw.
Tifa, Cloud hug with PASSION
Aerith, Cloud hug with KINDNESS
- If you fullfill your promise with Tifa, be her HERO and go save her, In both games, you will have optional scenes where you can choose between Tifa and Aerith, if you choose Tifa the iconic scenes will be with Tifa. But If you break this promise, you'll have it with Aerith. If you make Cloud keep his promises with Tifa, being her Hero, and Earith, defeating Sefiroth. No promises will be broken at the end of the game.
- And in Japanese stories involving romance, promises made between children are sacred.
Another TanaGreekNose 7 course meal. Really love the way you structured the video and just got right to the point. This is their love story being played out right in front of us. So much added and it’s not even close to done. All of the most Iconic Cloti is in the next game + whatever extra is added. It’s gonna be incredible. Thank you again for this wonderful video ❤
So glad you enjoyed it Aaron and thanks for being so supportive!
Something else to note is that cloud isn’t stupid when it comes to these things. Aerith says something about him being dense in these matters but he’s not. When Tifa indirectly tells him she has feelings for him in the sky wheel, he picks up on it right away and kisses her tenderly. When aerith tells him directly that she likes him in the dream date, he immediately changes the subject saying “what’s going on? You’ve been acting weird all day”
I shipped cloud and Aerith on my first playtrough of OG FFVII back in 97.
But when you trully understand the structure of the story and know the diference between the game showing you a Narrative vs knowing the true plot.
You come to the realization that the game secretly without telling you. Is in fact a love story, between cloud and Tifa.....
You don't have to ship Cloud and Tifa. They are the love story of the game.
I think that's not an uncommon way to experience the story the first time. I watched a streamer play the OG game back a few months ago and he actually paused the game after Highwind scene and talked about this very thing. That he had started out thinking Cloud would be with Aerith but had come to realize the story was that Cloud was meant to be with Tifa. He wasn't some shipper and it wasn't a big focus for him up until that point. I would say this is the most common experience for anyone not really looking for the romance in the first place. If you don't care that much about the romantic stuff, then it's really simple. Cloud and Tifa are just the story.
@talmanes4589 i say it's part of a love story. Because at its foundation. The entire story wouldn't even start. If Cloud didn't love tifa.
@@JammineyeonlineYes, at the heart of it their story is a love story.
@talmanes4589 i can definitely see this being a common experience. I think this may have been the devs intention with remake as well. I was new to ff7 with remake. And while I loved the idea of Cloud and Tifa together I ended Remake really believing Cloud and Aerith would be end game. I stayed away from OG stuff while waiting for Rebirth because I really didn't want to spoil anything for myself. I was pleasantly surprised when Rebirth ended up being a Cloud and Tifa love story. I ended up playing OG after I finished Rebirth, and the plot is so straight forward about who the love interest is it makes me really wonder how anyone cant see it.
It really was and I was even shocked by the extent of it! I mean, it literally had its own *story* and *arc* and *plot* in the main quest, not just random irrelevant hangouts in side-quests with a grumpy Cloud, but actual substance and story as a relationship with ups and downs and fights and reconciliations and open vulnerable moments and sexual tension. It also had other characters rooting for them in the main story and the only mandatory scene he had with Aerith in Kalm was *also* part of Cloud and Tifa's storyline cause that's the only thing they talked about. It was truly shocking how much they did for Cloti at this early point of the game. And this just talking about the mandatory main quest and not all the juicy optional added content.
And I agree, they gently put the other ship down to rest in the end, in a very sweet way actually.
Btw I think that when they didn't properly translate the 'nakama' part, they tried to make up for it by 'now I know where we stand' line, because that is not a positive line and is meant to be said after a rejection. I think they thought it would help convey the same negative feeling of finality for the players, but subtlety is lost on those who are stubborn and in denial.
absolutely love your analysis, you did a phenomenal deep dive! it's disappointing seeing discourse over tifa's character and her importance where some believe that she is "boring" and "just" a childhood friend when really she is so much more. i think her relationship with cloud is the strongest among the other party members and their scenes together across each game and book has solidified their importance to one another.
@@trey800 Appreciate your comment. I adore both of them and together they are even more loveable. Tifa is definitely a very powerful heroine. I think denying her impact on the story and Cloud will be dangerous come part 3!
The problem is, that for every fantastic Tifa fan that recognises her depth of character, there's three horny idiots who just see her bod. You see it in threads all over the place.
The one we all have been waiting for❣️✨🙌🙌🙌✨
Very very good video. I think there's a big divide between people who actually understand how relationships work and are and those who don't. I'm very happy you put out everything logically and out front for everyone to see.
I think it's a combination of not understanding real relationships but also not understanding storytelling either.
I loved your video! Rebirth really made the love triangle non existent to me lol Also I felt like the last date between Aerith and Cloud was her trying to revisit one of her dearest memories, because the date is the exact same as the one she had with Zack (at least she tries to replicate it) and she can't have Zack with her at the "last date" because she HAS to give the white materia to Cloud, at least that's how I felt, it was a goodbye between the two and a goodbye to her own life, she knew what she had to do to save the planet
Totally agree. I have trouble believing anyone playing the new games totally blind would even see any romance between Aerith and Cloud. It just isn't there unless you squint really hard because you're desperate to find it. Meanwhile Cloud have Tifa are all over the plot, especially in Rebirth where an entire subplot was added to do nothing but focus on their relationship.
Ma'am, I live for your Cloti analysis! So many things I missed that just make sense. Thank you for this great video
Glad you enjoyed it and appreciate you!
Finalmente uma TH-camr que realmente conhece a história e soube interpretar o enredo parabéns!!!!
Not only more Cloud and Tifa scenes but I think that the entire chapter before the final battle will be only Cloud and Tifa.
Loved your video, i apologise for this long rant here :D
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ok, so in the self containted story in OG VII you don't even know if Cloud and Tifa survive the meteor impact, we don't even see the Meteor being stopped completly from impact, the only thing we see is that Red survived in the flashforward, hinting at that atleast the gang on the Highwind survived and that the world is healing. So back then a player who favoured Aerith were free to assume that Cloud and Tifa died and the two reunited with all loved ones in the afterlife, including Aerith. There was no confirmation whatsoever. So in that context it was completly up to the players imagination.
But by the time the devs decided to expand the story, they picked a path: And that path was that Cloud and Tifa survived, built a home, two businesses and adopted a son, with Marlene occasionally staying there as Barret is away at work (since Tifa consider herself Marlenes mother aswell). That's the path they chose. Even if you "think" that he would have chosen to pursue Aerith in OG had she survived, she didn't and he moved on with his life with the woman he has known all his life and loved all his life.
Then add the expansion of Zacks backstory. In OG it's hinted that he wasn't perhaps as into Aerith as Aerith was into him, but it was left unresolved and by the time the developers decided to tell his story, they again picked a path: That Zack very much loved Aerith. Even making his death be him knowingly taking the risk of dying, just so he could see her.
All of this is now incorporated in the Remake trilogy and that is also why i could very much tell that while Remake was _much_ more ambigous in the relationships between Cloud and the girls, Rebirth wasn't. In Remake Cloud and Aerith bond, banter and grow very close, very fast. He starts out finding her nothing but annoying, but then as they travel the roof tops, they slowly start bantering and by the time you get to her house, he tells her flowers that they should learn to talk to her. Not to mention that he could have ditched her at any point after getting to the sector 5 slums, as it was her home. And as she catches him sneaking out at night, he again _could_ have simply told her to take the hint and leave him alone, but he didn't, hinting at the fact that he does warm up to her. And the same can be said with Tifa, they reconnect, they get know eachother again, banter and showcases great concern for eachother.
But in Rebirth..... Cloud and Tifas relationship goes through several stages, it's challanged by the fight Sephiroth influences him to pick with her in Kalm, as she storms off devestated.
(And funny enough, here comes the friendship bond he built with Aeirth in Remake and plays it's role: She clearly asked him to climb the tower with her, for the purpose of getting him alone so she could remind him to not take Tifa for granted. She is acting like a friend for both of them.)
In Junon the fight is resolved by Cloud apologising (the scene also starts with Tifa being on her way to find him to, she obviously wanted to make up aswell) and then _Cloud_ is the one who shows initiative in working on their relationship as he is the one who tells her thay they will "find time to talk, just the two of us. Figure things out". And again as you mention, then it culminates in an almost kiss in Gongaga, but the bond keeps growing, he shows care for her in Nibelheim as she sees a dead body at the same spot her father died, she hyperventilates, panics and almost immedatly calms down by Cloud simply putting his hand on her and saying her name. Then all the way through the temple of the ancients, Tifa is again the only one noticing Clouds odd behaviour. No one else does. And all of these scenes are 100% non optional, you get them regardless of the decisions you make.
Now on to Cloud and Aerith. Were are their challanges their "situationship" goes through in Rebirth and were are their important conversations regarding the topic of "them"? They simply do not evolve beyond the friendship they built in Remake. Atleast not on Clouds part (since Aeriths intentions were quite clear from the get go). There are no challanges, no missunderstandings, no point were their relationship temporarily is damaged, then built back up again stronger than before etc. Like the examples of how the story between Cloud and Tifa evolves throughout Rebirth.
And the only conversations that deals with them is stuck behind the optional date (the devs claim all/none are canon, just a reflection of Clouds relationship with them and yeah, he only kissed one girl there) and within the Dream date that has two versions, dependant on an affinity system were Cloud ultimatley deflects and does not engage in the conversation Aerith was trying to have. Not to mention that..... the "dream date" is skippable if you choose to omit *Zacks* story line on replays.... Odd isn't it? Almost like a hint? And speaking of Zack, why is he there? The guy who's sole desire is to reunite with Aerith? Did the deves include him just so he can give Cloud his blessing for Aeriths hand or is he there to eventually reunite with her? Like, what's more likley? Lol :P
If the intention was to keep the love triangle alive and for them to grow aswell, why not have Cloud maybe get angry at her as he realises that he reminds her of her ex? Maybe Cloud could have been depicted as feeling "used" by her and the tension could have been resolved by more or less the same dialouge that was used in her date? Were she acknowledges that yes, he shares some traits that reminded her of him, but that Cloud is also very different from him and that she wants to get to know Cloud for Cloud. Maybe even ended the scene with Cloud jokingly introducing himself to her and she plays along, so the players can tell that "oh, their bond is now deeper", just as we could see happening with him and Tifa.
It really dawned on me after a couple of playthroughs that no, the supposed Love triangle is already solved. It's been solved for years. It's Tifa.
Sure, who knows, in pt 3 they might pull the rug on us and delve deep into Cloud realising the deep feelings he had for Aerith etc, i don't know, but i just don't see the set up for it. Especially not since they included Zack in the game.
End of rant :D
Its not solved.
Cleriths have too a ton of arguments.
They are satisfying both ships giving material to both.
Just answering a thing.
Why Cloyd doesn’t get jealous of Zack?
He does in Gongaga, in Aerith date such jealousy separates them.
Even in Tifas date, he can’t get such jealousy out of his mind.
@@adamnesico No. Every single ultimania reffers to Aerith as Clouds best friend while simultanously stating that Cloud and Tifa confess their _mutual_ feelings for eachother under the Highwind, not to mention that Tifa and the player get to see that Cloud is in love with Tifa in the Lifestream.
Aeriths a red herring, she is presented as a love interest and heavily pushed in the narrative until she gets killed because it made her death unexpected and shocking. Plain and simple.
If they satisfying "both" then there was zero reason for Cloud not to kiss Aerith on the GS date or on the dream date. Or at the end of the game when he is talking to her spirit.
Cloud does not love Aerith romantically. He loves her as his best friend.
@@Mukation The games too describe Tifa as just a friend.
If you are gonna accept everything the devs say for feed the ship wars, you will have to declare Cloud as the king of friendzone.
@@Mukation Why doesn’t Cliud kiss Aerith in the wheel?
1 she didn’t gave any signal of desire a kiss.
2 he felt the remember of Zack was separating him and Aerith.
Aniways, in each date Cloud gave the girls what they wanted:
Tifa tried a kiss in Gongaga, so Cloud gave her one.
Aerith singed “take my hand and be together” so Cloud took her hand in a boyfriend style.
Which ever is picked, Cloud give her what she wanted.
@@Mukation i too have the theory that Tifa represent western dating style while Aerith japanese style.
Kiss while dating is acceptable in West but not in japan, they instead replace kiss with hand holding, i think.
The thing about the dates is, they're not optional. The game forces you to take a party member on a date, otherwise the game won't progress.
And the devs never claimed that the dates were optional or not canon like some try to push. They said it was slightly removed from the main scenario because you're literally forced to steer away from it to explore character relationships.
You have to watch Cloud confirm the nature of his relationships with each party member (as stated in the rebirth ultimania). Something the players have no control over.
And not only is Tifa the only one he initiates & reaches out to, but he confirms that the romantic love between them is requited.
Do you mind sharing the link where you hear the devs saying this?
The optional argument is disingenuous imo anyway. It's only very selective optional scenes that certain people would like to ignore. I've never heard anyone arguing that Vincent and Yuffie aren't actually part of the story despite them both being optional in the OG game. The whole scene with Zack's death, optional. Does that mean it didn't happen? All of Vincent and Yuffie's backstory and quests, optional. All of Wutai is optional, so does the place even really exist? Tons of side quests in the remakes are optional. But no one ever tries to argue that stuff doesn't count. But the Highwind scene, well that has an option and we don't like it so we'll cry real loud about it. Same thing with the kiss.
Only the kiss is 10x worse for them than Under the Highwind was. They could comfort themselves by pretending it only happened because Aerith was dead back then. Now Aerith was alive and well but the options are still the same. For Cloud it's Tifa or no one.
@@talmanes4589 bringing up that Zack’s death scene was optional is a really strong argument. I’m sure some people would still go blue in the face trying to say Cloud and Tifa aren’t legit. As Sephiroth said (more or less), those with clouded eyes will never see the truth🥴😂. But in all seriousness, people are always gonna be in denial sadly. I’m done arguing the facts. We won anyway….our side has been validated
@@peppergirlrocks It's in the Ultimania.
@@peppergirlrocks It's in the Rebirth Ultimania where they discuss the affinity system in relation to the GS date and how they decided on the dialogue options.
After that dunk in the reactor pool and with Cloud’s altered cells, any kid they’ll have after this Remake will be a mako infused Weapon level super soldier.
Lol. True.
Thank you! I love your way of explaining it was really great, and I agree with you , I love their relationship so much and I can't wait to see part 3
When Cloud and Tifa kissed I literally screamed with absolute joy!! When I started Remake, it was my intro to FF7. It was actually Sephiroth in Smash Bros that got me interested (Sephiroth is the best villain in video games). And then I knew about Aerith dying. So I was like I am gonna have Cloud save Aerith and they’ll be happy together. But then I met Tifa Lockhart and I instantly fell in love with that character. So I was like I will do one playthrough for each girl. But as I played, I realized that Cloud is only in love with Tifa and he won’t be with anyone but her. I absolutely loved their relationship and I was extremely excited to see more in Rebirth. And this was so much more than I could have hoped for. They’re one of my favorite couples in fiction
It’s awesome that you gathered that without even having played OG.
Very well edited. Great vid! Thank you.
Thank you very much!❤
I remember when AC released. That scene where Tifa gets up behind Cloud on the bike during the Behemout battle. She gets on and he looks back over his arm, checking on her. It's fast but I knew then, even if the opening scene I the church wasn't obvious enough
@@breemlew It's the little things!
My cloti brainrot after rebirth is so serious, y'all
lmao same I can't stop thinking about them,,, it's a problem at this point 😅
For anyone who blames the affinity system for “creating a CT romance” that wouldn’t have otherwise existed:
A grand total of 0 cloud responses in choice dialogue are romantic in nature. This is not a dating sim where selectable dialogue becomes more and more suggestive until it becomes an explicit affirmation of romantic feelings. All dialogue is platonic relationship-building in nature. The GS date, on the other hand, has no dialogue choices, so there is no opportunity for the player to steer Cloud in a direction the developers do not intend for his character. Both high and low affinity scenes feature an affirmation of Tifa’s romantic feelings. The GS Tifa date is simply depicting a “what if” scenario based on the 100% canon, main scenario events.
Great point. FF7 is definitely no dating sim. Cloud is not a vessel for the player's choices in regards to his romantic preferences.
I was expecting the kiss to be under the Highwind, now I’m like….w-what are they gonna do under the Highwind?! My little heart can’t take it!🥹🫣
Oh, you know 😉😇
What if they don't show us what happens under the high wind, but instead show us what happens 9 months later? ;)
@AkihikoLockhartStrife There's nothing stopping them from remaking it. It can be Canon, but still be remade, with the remake of it being Canon.
Of course it remains to be seen if it would be remade correctly. As I keep saying Cloud and Tifa's relationship is far from the only thing they botched in that movie. And as much as I doubt they would fix everything in a satisfactory manner, they can at least improve things enough to be acceptable.
@AkihikoLockhartStrife True, but they don't necessarily have to go that far for me to be satisfied.
@AkihikoLockhartStrife We definitely should do so. But the odds of getting AC changed the way it needs to be will be much higher if we start the conversation now.
There have been exactly three fictional romantic relationships I've ever cared about. This one was the first and still my favorite after almost thirty years. I still can't quite believe how much they added for them together in this part of the story. Loving it. I especially love how all of Sephiroth's efforts to drive a wedge between them only drives them closer together.
Great video!! Totally agree on your views here. The wait for part 3 is going to drive me insane.
DON'T EVER delete this vid
@@Vampp89 Heard!
Great video, never stop making them ❤
Aww what a sweet comment! You can bet I won't stop!
Correction: a love story among Sephiroth x Cloud x Tifa. Lol jk (ish).
But in all seriousness, like i said before, i can almost always tell who actually knows the story and lore of ff7 and a newbie who has been introduced to the fandom via the remake trilogy. But they'll try to argue about something they clearly know nothing about, especially when it comes to the canon ship. No. Newbies are great. But stay in your lane, please.
I think I know what you mean. Misinformation being floated around for years, paraphrasing quotes that were actually never said.. it can be a doozy.
@@tanagreeknose7376 So much of what I see is people regurgitating their own head canon like it's actual fact. While willfully ignoring everything that actually happens in the games.
@@talmanes4589 yup. Maybe they don't understand that they can still have their fanon fun while still acknowledging canon. That's literally what fanfiction is for.
Cloud x Tifa, Aerith x Masamune
@@thehoneybunempress1664that's how I feel about Zack and Cissnei. I strongly prefer those two over him and Aerith, but I'm not so dumb that I can't see that was plainly never going to happen.
To be completely Fair, I've seen a few Clerith supporters who are actually mature enough to handle it this way, but so many just aren't.
love it, tifa is so important to cloud
What's so interesting in rebirth is that after checking some stuff out her Gongaga talk about Zack is much more ambiguous and she straight up admits that she never really stopped liking him compared to OG optional scene where she straight up says that the past is in the past and completely moved on. She also used to have advantage and was easier to get her date at the Gold Saucer due to having much more points of affection here it's not the case everyone has excluding the boys (unless you do no sidequests at all) night a fair chance for getting a date. The Dream "date" is also one of those things where Cloud either responds with that nakama line or if you got the high affection (this feels like it's not even high affection because you actively need to get her date having an 80+ relationship which is a teal smile maxed is not enough to get it) it's more hopefull but her reaction ultimately still stays the same and a bit of dissapointment can be seen in her because it's not really meant to be but also Sephiroth is around the corner. Then we have Zack in the lifestream (afaik this is the most sound theory I can see it being a thing so it ties the loose ends perfectly in terms of the compillation which is their goal) world is trying his best to talk to her and reunite with her there is a point when zack holds her hand and Aerith in our main world feels it through the lifestream she has her hands in. The variables are pretty interesting and I can understand why cleriths are really annoyed by this because tbh up until disc 2 you really could have fooled me that Cloud and Tifa wasn't really a thing that can happen. It's kinda crazy how the only argument they really can use is that it's "optional" but by that logic then Cloud straight up friendzones her since you need to get an Aerith date to get that line not only that but the significance of the first ff7 universe kiss is given to them (Yuffie cheeck kiss doesn't feel like it counts) speaks volumes in itself specially how they had two moments of something happening like that
I think that Aerith's behavior in FF7 belies her true feelings on the matter. You could tell that Zack was REALLY important given Cloud's identity crisis also, but he was someone they didn't have enough time to expand upon. So glad he got his spotlight since Advent Children.
The way cloud and erith were handled in the original was a side effect of both the messy production, and the fact that the original vision of the game was different.
They all but directly admitted that the reason they didn't bother to fix this was because they didn't think it was a big deal, they felt the way Tifa and Cloud had gone by the end of the game had made things obvious enough.
An understandable position when you consider the fact that nobody thought this was going to become an entire compilation at that point.
Very glad to discover your channel thanks to your video on FF7 and buddhism ! I really enjoy your takes on this game. Sorry for my poor english...
So happy you're enjoying my videos! I'll keep making them! 😊 And your English is fine!
I’ve seen all of the online debates regarding this and have my own theory(as we all do lol)…spoilers in this for people unfamiliar btw…I completely believe this Remake trilogy is all very much about a Cloud and Tifa love story. I believe it’s with entire intent from the beginning, this entire story is about these events happening “again” but going into a new direction. It’s outright stated by the developers that this is an unknown journey and they put so much into Cloud and Tifa. Aerith has forthright knowledge of events, she knows deep down that no matter what, there’s certain aspects of fate that can’t be changed and have to happen. Her ultimate fate being unchangeable. I think it’s bittersweet for her, but that ultimately she is just trying to appreciate the time that she’s given. Obviously she wishes things could be different but also accepts that they are not to be so. In her first meeting with Cloud, she gives him the flower, stating the flower represents lovers being reunited. My first play through I took this as a meta insert from the developers as being the two of them..but..then..when I played again..I took notice of how they removed the option of Cloud not giving Tifa the flower. I feel now that this was a very deliberate action to represent Aerith giving Cloud the flower for the purpose of him giving it to Tifa specifically..considering Aerith’s knowledge of events..stating that Cloud and Tifa is a true love that is meant to be and they’ve been reunited after these 5 years. It also seems to me at other times that Aerith even encourages Cloud and Tifa. I think Cloud and Aerith’s relationship is about being close, more than simply friends but not meant to be romantic this time around. Special to each other yes..but acknowledging that it’s something deeper than just an attraction. A love that’s more about someone being a central and irreplaceable piece of one’s life..but for Cloud and Tifa-a true story of romantic love. OG FF7-absolutely a love story between Cloud and Aerith and love triangle between the three..but I wholeheartedly believe it’s the developers intentions this time to push Cloud and Tifa together sooner, that it’s about things happening differently “this time” to what they should be. That Aerith is trying to make things right this time for everyone. That’s something actually beautiful about the story, that the developers gave you the option of essentially reliving the events of OG FF7 of a love that can’t be for those who can’t or don’t want to let go of that. With the hope in the unknown..that this time you can save her. Yet ultimately showing you though that importance of Aerith’s sacrifice and her death is deeper to the story than simply a relationship mechanic that can be changed based on your actions. That ultimately as well..despite everything..Aerith is meant to pass away no matter what to save the world and those she loves and that Cloud and Tifa are just meant to be. And Aerith knows this. And Tifa absolutely is an integral part of Cloud. I feel they really wanted to flesh this out more so this time. I don’t think it’s fan service..I believe it’s about cementing their intentions this time in an undeniable way. That as events unfold differently because of outside influences and interference..it brings Cloud and Tifa closer together-sooner-and more powerfully. They’re each other’s rock..and Aerith’s story this time is a bittersweet memento, that is a nod to OG..but also more about the life and death of someone who was special to everyone and how she touched their lives in their short time together. While also allowing Cloud to overcome his grief and guilt(possibly) sooner this time so that he can be the stronger person he needs to be this time around, than what he was in OG 7. Since the threat is greater this time.
There are certainly times where Aerith supported cloud in Remake. But I think thats before the whispers took her memories.
Cleriths are the most Delulu people I have ever come across on the interwebs or they are just the ultimate trolls who doesn't understand the FF7 story. That Aru streamer, is the worst. toxic person sending her delulu minions to troll on others
By Cleriths you mean Clotis
@@CloudStrifeeeeee if I was not clear enough. Or you just made my point about Cleriths are so delulu that they can't read/comprehend words. It's CLERITHS
@@CloudStrifeeeeeeCleriths duh
I never understood why people even ship Aerith and Cloud it’s obvious ( and even admitted by Aerith ) that her attraction to cloud was solely based on the fact he literally reminded her of Zack the same could be said of any attraction Cloud might feel towards her being remnants of Zack feelings for her being transposed onto cloud due to his condition. It’s revealed that cloud had always had feelings towards Tifa him wanting to join SOLDIER and become a big time war hero was literally to impress her which is why he felt tremendous shame and couldn’t reveal himeself to her when him and Zack when back to his hometown. I personally feel that the date with Tifa is the developers way of finally canonizing who clouds romance truly is since not only is it in Tifas date that Zack isn’t brought up it’s also the only date that has cloud actually make the moves when he extends his hand to Tifa it’s also the only date that actually has cloud share a kiss kind of like the developers saying “this is the canon romance” since it’s odd that only Tifas gets that level of intimacy. Lastly Aeriths true love has always been Zack and having cloud end up with her seems like a stab in the back to his long time friend who saved his life and is even still technically alive in this new version.
Except that Aerith loves Cloud, she surpassed Zack after 5 years, it didn't change from morning to noon, she felt in love with Cloud after 5y without Zack
@@user-rl5uo3xf5r while I do believe that aerith did grow to care for cloud it still can’t be denied that her initial attraction to him was due to him reminding her of Zack cloud even mimicked some of Zack’s mannerisms (this was shown better in the OG FF7 then in the remake) while Tifa loved cloud for who HE was not who he reminded her off
@@Jay3up Not only her initial attraction, but all of Cloud and Aerith interactions are with Cloud's Soldier persona. Aerith never meets, gets to know, or spends any time with real Cloud. She only knows the fake Cloud, which she realizes when she says she wants to get to know the real him. And that's as far as their relationship ever goes. She dies a day or two later and that's that. Cloud and Aerith are a what if scenario, Cloud and Tifa are the actual plot. Less about shipping and more about people's ability to comprehend the story and plot amid all the misdirection in the narrative.
Yay you made a follow up ! Thanks for the awesome video !
Took me a while but finally got to it! ❤ And thank you for supporting!
I had to comment on the article regarding Advent Children. Why don't ppl recognize that we never see Tifa and Cloud's bedroom? Ha. Reno and Rude put them in Denzel and Marlene's room.
I always said. That the people who truly understand the plot of Final Fantasy 7 will always ship cloud and Tifa. People who get stuck on the narrative will always ship cloud and Aerith!
People that understand the story don't have to ship anyone. Tifa and Cloud are a major part of the story and the plot.
@DsLmaNiaC its important because the story is also a love story. And love stories will have you want for the couple to end happy together. That's the whole point. Were FFVII has its problem is in the way the story is told. Were one can assume that the couple the game is trying to have you want happy at the end is not what it seems. Because the main plot of the story is about things being not as it seems!
@@Jammineyeonline I agree with everything.
Cloud and Tifa's relationship is the pillar of the game plot and its love story.
That is why I am saying you don't have to ship them, you ship someone when your preference is contrary to the story.
Tifa and Cloud and their bond are a major part of the story.
@DsLmaNiaC i think you may be confused about what shipping is!.
Now, i may be wrong!.
But shipping is who you believe to be the couple the story intended to end up together.
For example. As you told me, you beleave tifa and cloud are the main couple. But what if i disagree with you because i have a wealth of information that supports the opposite.
You simply say, that's not true, because you have your own weath of information that supports your claim.
That's what shipping is.
Another example would be, do you beleave spiderman should be with marry jane, black cat, or gwen stacy? (I hope you know about Spiderman).
Who you believe Spiderman should end up with is your shipping couple.. and you would be valid to say so.
@Jammineyeonline I know what shipping is, I disagree with the term.
I'm not a shiper but I choose Tifa for reasons 1 it feels that she's the right person 2 the whole based because of young boy wanted to impress his crush and then he gets traumatized by etc etc 3 when I was 12 and played it and when reached mideel Tifa's support and when the real Cloud came back I remember I start yelling screaming of happiness telling my mother Cloud is back Cloud is back Tifa helped him to remember I went out to tell my friends my excitement was too much for that reason I choose Tifa I love Aerith too I love them both and finally I hope in part 3 nojima will finally choose a canon love it will be 30+ years so the war will end both with sephirot and Tifa Aerith tho they were beasties
The way I see it is that Zack is trying to reach out to Aerith. But Aerith does not know it. Remember when he touched her hand and she felt it in the other world. Besides that her burden of fighting Sephiroth is hindrance from her living her life. She is a tragic character who will carry on her burden to save the world. But I believe she will be saved by a hero. Remember when Zack yelled to Cloud to save her. For Zack it does not matter even if he is not the one who saves her. Both of them have will sacrifice their desires to do the right thing. It's a juxtaposition of Tifa and Clouds relationship. Childhood friends trying to remember, Tifa trying to make Cloud whole, and star-crossed lovers, Aerith accepting her fate setting aside her love with Zack trying to reach her. By way remember the scene when a bullet was headed for Zack's face and the wind pushed it aside. I believe it was part of Aerith in the lifestream that did that. This Sephitoth and Aerith are from the future through the lifestream. While Aerith is losing her memories, Sephiroth kept his because the Jenova part of him is all that remains. He already threw his humanity into the lifestream so that he will not be absorbed by it.
Great breakdown, I do like how modern-day games are telling great, well written stories.
100%. You hit the nail on the head!
It’s funny because before FF7 Remake came out my favorite pairing was Zack x Cloud (friends) and Zerith. I was a light Cloti and kind of a light Clerith. I had played the OG at 13, watched AC, played Crisis Core, etc. After playing FF7 Remake I told one of my good friends, they’re really pushing Cloti in Remake. Cloud and Tifa really like each other a lot. She kind of agreed with me. Then Rebirth came out and it was like, Damn, Cloud and Tifa really love each other. I can’t see Clerith now. It just doesn’t have the same passion and intensity that Cloud and Tifa have for each other. I’ve heard Cleriths weaponize the Gongaga scene in many ways, one being that Cloud appears more distraught over Aerith’s death than Tifa’s. Well, it’s different. Since Cloud thinks for a few minutes (or hours) that he killed Tifa he regresses back to that catotonic state where he ceases to be anything. It’s only when he finds out that she might be alive, and Barrett punches him, that he comes back to life. So it’s worse in some ways. Also, I don’t think Aerith is 100% over Zack either. I’m not sure how Aerith feels about Zack, but he’s still madly in love with her in Rebirth. . . Anyway, thanks for the video! I loved it as well as your amusing sense of humor :)
Appreciate your comment! I agree with Remake really pushing Cloti and Rebirth just hammering it home.
Love this! 🤍
@TanaGreekNose, I did a playthrough of Chapter 14 in Spanish with the hope that it would clear up some of the confusion I had with the English localization, and came across this spicy tidbit regarding the difference in both tone and severity from the Sector 5 photographer quote that you brought up. In English he said "you don't look like you're on a date, more like at a funeral" and then says something like "have fun while you still can" when Aerith rebuffs his funeral remarks. The Spanish turns out to be WAY more brutal, where it instead translates as "don't you think you make a bad couple? She looks like she's about to cry", and in response to Aerith's protest he says "you don't have chemistry, period". It's just so much more savage than the English version and clearer too. Would love to hear your thoughts on this poor English localization.
That translation is brutal! As of right now I'm not sure how accurate it is to the Japanese but from what I've seen of the Italian one that was more loyal to the Japanese, the Spanish one might be getting across the intended message more accurately as well given that the European languages take their cues directly from the Japanese.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Got it, thanks. I also did both low and high affection church scenes in Spanish, and the nakama thing comes up in the former. Instead of the whole "next time" exchange, she says "that's because we have few memories together", and he responds "we will make more over time". When Aerith asks her "next time" question in response (in Spanish it's "is that what you want"), he says "eso hacen los amigos, no", which translates to "that's what friends do". High affection version he just says, "yeah, definitely". Based on that, my guess is the Spanish (Castellano dialect) is reflective of the Japanese dialogue, since he calls her a friend either way in the low affection version.
Yeah Idk if I’m the only one who thought this, but after playing Remake after Crisis Core, every romantic scene with Aerith and Cloud felt so awkward. 😭
wow cloti is strong in rebirth
Naybe this siybds crazy fir some but cloud, tifa and aerith "triangle" feels quite similar to Geralt, Yennefer and Triss story, ofc with tbe nuances and changes of their respective genres and structures
We all know the climactic moment in the lifestream will make us scream tears of joy, and the Highwind scene as well.
But it’s the journey… how low will their relationship get before that happens? That’s whats gonna break all of us the most.
I’m entirely convinced that Cloud will journey to Northern Crater in a completely different manner from the OG. I can see Cloud’s belief that she’s ok creating a rift with everyone in the party and he just decides to abandon them and proceed to the crater alone. Like imagine if Tifa catches him having a conversation with Aerith, who isn’t there at all, and he says something like “Glad you’re ok”, and Tifa gets angry at him for suggesting that when she’s really not there.
Imagine if we play as Tifa, and right before Cloud arrives at Northern Crater, Tifa confronts him and tries convincing him this isn’t the right thing to do. And when Cloud actually refuses for once, Tifa will be heartbroken at the idea her spiky haired lover would suddenly turn “evil”… and Cloud ends up being a boss fight. Imagine how gut wrenching that would be for Tifa to attempt to knock him out.
And then we get Mideel… Brit’s gonna kill it during that moment and it’s going to break me once we finally see comatose/unconscious Cloud, and how Tifa’s heart shatters when she sees him in that state
I swear, part 3 better have an epilogue of sorts after the credits roll where we see them living a healthy life at the new Seventh Heaven. In a world where the bad events of Advent Children never happened.
I can see them going in that direction, with Cloud splitting off from the party. It would be interesting. Great thinking!
6:05 till the end, BIG FACTS! 😊
Thank you!
The thing is, I actually agree with that particular review and it's criticisms of how they handled cloud and tifa. That's one of many reasons that advent children needs to be fixed.
Hell, imagine them having a baby that had geostigma, it would both up the stakes and give them a stronger reason to join the fight against it. (If you have a disease it's one thing, your infant baby having it is another thing entirely)
Tifa ❤ Cloud ♥️
Fantastic analysis
For me personally shipping wars are so silly at this point... It's all so subjective. Game give each gamer an opportunity to make their own story canon, but yet - people decide to fight over nothing instead.
(If something, my words above not directed to you, it's more like - what I saw online... You being passionate about cloti bring me so much joy!)
I shipping both Cloud x Tifa and Aerith x Cloud (and a little bit Tifa x Aerith, if I'm in the mood 🤭). I feel really strong about both ships, and I love them both dearly. For me - they both canon.
And, if I would feel the need, I know that I can found a way to proof why both of this shipps are meant to be. Because games give us that - variety.
Thank you for really nice cloti content! I loved it!
I wish to find another youtuber as passionate as you are - but this time about Cloud x Aerith! 💚 Then I would be able to enjoy story through the both linses and would be fully satisfied!
And what else there to wish for while we all waiting for FF7 Remake Part 3...
Anyway, thank you for the video! I wish your channel to grow, so I subscribed!
Yeah, to the bun the ship wars, team bigamy.
Most youtubers i found until now were Cleriths:
Slahsterpiece gaming, Aruu, yououui
In Gongaga, when Cloud asks Aer if she still loves Zack, in the JP she answers, “that’s right” without a shadow of a doubt. She doesn’t say “maybe.”
Idk why the hell the localization decided to change that from something she says with certainty into something less so. There was no cultural or idiomatic reason for that change. Rebirth seems worse than Remake when it comes to this.
That's what someone else commented as well. I'm trying to save some stuff for my JP playthrough, but I see that the translation team keep having to make interesting choices. Lol
Sure, but i think she made it pretty clear during the game she loves cloud now, so it is irrelevant. Even if you don't consider their ship canon, the devs have been doing some work to make both fanbases happy.
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs What you have *_FAILED_* to realize that Cloud had friendzoned Aerith more than twice. He called Zack's girlfriend "WEIRD" when she's replaying her date with Zack. If you don't believe me, watch and play Crisis Core. And lastly... the immortal ancient Aerith have to accept Cloud's final decision and be COMRADES before her last goodbye at the end of part 2.
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs I don't think Rebirth does anything for Cloud and Aerith, except maybe through more dirt on the idea that it was ever intended to be more than a red herring to suck players in emotionally in the OG. Aerith seems confused about her feelings for Cloud and all she can come up with is that she wants to get to know him better. The more damning problem is that Cloud never reciprocates anything more than friendship towards Aerith. Meanwhile Cloud and Tifa's relationship gets its own subplot throughout the game, with flirting and intimate moments and real development, and that's even without the optional kiss.
ok you convinced me 1000%
It's funny to see some people here trying to argue about CloTi with the usual arguments, but when you stop to read what they are saying, they clearly didn't watched the video or either paid attention what is being said (just like this people do with the game lol). The fact is: If the devs wanted, they would do a REAL romantic triangle. Clerith is a ship based in misunderstandings and random 'profs' that goes to nowhere else than a oblivion of "what if"
But it is one and that is exactly what they want, they don't want to "hurt" part of their fanbase, there are valid arguments for both ships because of that, you would be ignoring the story of this trillogy and other media for this, it is so obvious, i could say then that aerith being rosa in loveless is canon, where the main point is the hero and aerith loving each other and foreshadowing the rest of the game, bht even then you can choose and rosa will change depending on your date, why? Because there is no canon ship.
@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs Well, for me, if they wanted to maintain this "equality" and non canon couple, They would give both the same romantic relevance. Even with the most pro-clerith scenes, there is always a hint to Zack (I am not going to get into that discussion about C having Zack memories). In OG, this was visible, but in rebirth, it is shining bright, even more with they argument in Kalm and they resolution, which only adds a profundity to they relationship in general (leading to gongaga scene), there was a portrait of something that happen with real couples. In conclusion: Even if it was supposed to not have a official couple, Aerith and Cloud have so much lacking to be considered equal to Tifa and Cloud in terms of real connection (sorry if this is too long)
@@ContaSecundaria-nr3zs You can't say that when all the romantic options are with only one girl. If they wanted them to be equal, they sure did a piss poor job of making them equal. So much so that it's laughable to think they intended any kind of equality. Where's the kiss for Aerith, where's the confession of his feelings for Aerith, where does Cloud open up about his fears and insecurities with Aerith, where does Cloud and Aerith's relationship grow or develop, what struggles does their relationship have? All that is only there with TIfa, and much of it isn't optional. Just like OG, optional or not, Tifa is the only romantic option available for Cloud. No matter how hard some players might wish it, or what choices they make, it is impossible to force Cloud into a romantic relationship with anyone other than Tifa. Any romance between Cloud and Aerith is limited to "what ifs" and fanfiction. The remakes are clearing up much of the ambiguity of the OG, just as the creators said they would.
The play is flimsy evidence of anything btw. It's a play with no connection to our characters other than they perform the play. I don't see how Aerith being Rosa means anything about her relationship with Cloud. Some people sure can stretch something to try to support what they want I guess, lol.
I jump back and forth between Aerith & Tifa but recently I been leaning more and more with Tifa. It just makes a lot of sense and at the end of the day, I just want my boy Cloud to be happy and he can only do it with Tifa because shes alive!
A well put together video really enjoyed this, hope there is more to come:)
I'll keep making videos with a similar subject matter. Thank you!
Since I was kid the Og make me thing Cloud like Aerith and than AC come out Cloud seem like think about Aerith more than Tifa (with kid analysis) so I feel sad x2 bc I in love with Tifa from the begin and everyone around me like Aerith even my best friend always say Could with Aerith so when I grow up I still thing like that but when remake come out is very clear who Cloud always love is Tifa and it's obviously more with rebirth. one thing, I see is beautiful in rebirth are relationships between any charecter so interesting it feel like comeback to my young fantasy game again 😊 with my party.
I loved that about Rebirth! Definitely so fun to come back to that feeling of being a kid again.
I'm a Cloti at heart so naturally I will gravitate to anything that confirms Cloti. That said, I think Clerith shippers should be allowed to ship if they do wish. My only concern is that Clerith shippers sometimes underestimate Tifa's importance to Cloud. They are so focused on Aerith that they downplay, ignore, or deny any opportunity to make romantic connections with Tifa. I may be mistaken but I feel most Cloti fans often acknowledge the romantic connection between Cloud and Aerith but merely emphasize that the connection is stronger with Tifa. In reverse, it seems like Clerith fans try hard to dismiss the Cloti romance.
As a Cloti fan, I'm more than happy to acknowledge that there's some level of romance between Aerith and Cloud.
That said, Aerith still loves Zack. Clerith fans try to undermine the significance of Zack and what he meant to Aerith, ignoring the 89 letters as well as the fact that it hasn't been that long since she stopped writing the letters. It's not like she stopped because she wanted to, she just didn't know what else to do but try to let him go. But there's still love there, love doesn't just fade away after a few months.
Conclusion: all ships are valid... But Cloti and Zerith are the best ships 😎😌😏
I disagree. The same can be said about Clotis that constantly downplay, ignore, undermine all the romantic moments between Cloud and Aerith. Ask yourselves this question, why would a person be willing to risk their lives and wage war against the strongest government’s own personal HQ to rescue a woman in which he has only met for 2 days if not for love? Because that was exactly what Cloud did for Aerith back in Remake.
The only reason that you guys ship Zack and Aerith is because it makes it easier for you to ship Cloud and Tifa. But do you guys actually care about Zack and Aerith as characters? Because if you did you would be willing to admit that Aerith has already moved on from Zack and has already fallen deeply for Cloud as not only a lover but a soulmate and Zack has already accepted this like the champ he is. Zack has completely entrusted Cloud to take care of Aerith because he KNOWS his friend will do right by her. He even says “CLOUD! SAVE HER!” during the final battle.
Marlene even debunks Zerith herself. But ya’ll wanna look down on a pure-hearted kid just cause she’s young. Just analyze the final battle for yourself. She could have been reunited with Zack her first love but chose to be with Cloud instead!
Cloud was [Aerith’s] friend, her lover - he represented something precious, an existence that she must protect.
On the Way to a Smile, Case of Lifestream (White), Final Fantasy VII Novel by Kazushige Nojima
Nojima clearly shows this in Rebirth ^ as Aerith protects Cloud from Sephiroth during the final battle.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee "why would a person be willing to risk their lives and wage war against the strongest government’s own personal HQ to rescue a woman in which he has only met for 2 days if not for love" Tifa goes too, but besides that, in the OG it's more or less because Cloud is in his Zack-persona as a brave and stalwart hero, and brave and stalwart heroes always save the girl. Not that he doesn't care about Aerith, but just like Tifa, it's more than one thing.
"Because if you did you would be willing to admit that Aerith has already moved on from Zack" she specifically says she hasn't. I'll point out the obvious that CC made the Zack-Aerith relationship way more close and meaningful than what was implied in the OG, and they didn't backpedal on that at all for the remake. That doesn't come across as the writers trying to convince us that Cloud and Aerith are one true loves and Aerith is totally over Zack.
"Marlene even debunks Zerith herself." She doesn't debunk anything. She tells Zack something that is true, that Aerith has feelings for Cloud, which developed in Zack's absence. It'll be up to Part 3 to reconcile that Aerith has feelings for both men, and since the game ended with Aerith feeling ambiguous about her feelings for Cloud despite her understanding this her final moments to do so, it's a lot less clear-cut than you are implying.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee
Well I feel like you sorta proved my point. If you re-read you saw my comment, I acknowledged that there is a romance between Aerith and Cloud but merely that I feel the romance between Tifa and Cloud is more profound. Also the point of caring about the characters seems disconnected from logic a little. We aren't shipping Zack and Aerith just cause. It would be just as invalid to suggest that Clerith shippers are doing so just cause. There is an element of unfulfilled love between Zack and Aerith. Both of them wanted to spend more time with each other but war and crisis prevented them from doing so. I personally am not the denying the existence of Romantic feelings between Aerith and Cloud. That's what the writers sorta want to allude to. But to imply that Aerith has moved on from Zack completely as though waiting four years and a half years for him means nothing, I feel like you're just doing exactly what I said Clerith shippers do. Invalidate or Downplay, or deny. I'm not denying.
I agree that Aerith must have some feelings for Cloud. I just don't think they are as strong as her feelings for Zack. People can sometimes fall in love with more than one person. It happens. And each love can be different. Also we read things how we want to see them as well sometimes. The narrative has made it clear to me that Tifa is a love interest to Cloud. But it also heavily alludes to romance between him and Aerith. So we can both be right, just seeing it from different angles. Aerith matters to Cloud, but I think the writers have made it clear in Rebirth that Tifa matters a lot too. Anyways I'm not trying to debate it. These are just my perspectives on the topic 👍
@@CloudStrifeeeeeeactually in the OG it was Cloud’s mission to save Aerith, but in Remake they changed it and it became the team’s effort. Also when they showed up and rescued her wasn’t it Cloud and Tifa in the shot together. Cloud didn’t go running to Aerith saying, “Aerith!” when he found her. Tifa just does something simple like becomes a frog and he’s shouting, “Tifa!” and running after her. There are videos made alone of Cloud just saying, “Tifa!” because he says it so much.
Also, the reason people love Zerith is that it was a confirmed mutual love. Whether you want to call it puppy love or actual love, Zack was head over heels in love with her. He tried entering Midgar, the bastion of Shinra, knowing that he might get killed because he was still in love with Aerith. And Zack hasn’t given up on her. He wants Cloud to save her because he loves her so much. True love is selfless like that. True Aerith does love Cloud at the end of Rebirth, but it seems obvious that the writers included all this Zack content for something big in the end. I loved Zerith long before being a Cloti because it was so sweet and they balanced each other out.
I’ve even seen Cleriths refer to Tifa as a rebound or a friend with benefits because there is no way to deny the sexual tension between Cloud and Tifa. Yes, Cloud did look at Aerith in the red dress with awe, but I think that’s the only time it’s hinted that Cloud is physically attracted to Aerith. I mean she is a beautiful girl. I’m a straight female and I might have that same reaction to her in that dress XD
Yes, Aerith is something precious, a special existence Cloud wants to protect, but that doesn’t mean he wants to makeout with her or have sex. And I mention sex because it is a huge part of a loving romantic relationship. If a guy or girl doesn’t want to have sex then it doesn’t really develop into a romantic relationship. It stays a friendship. It’s so obvious Cloud wants to be physically intimate with Tifa even Yuffie makes fun of him for it XD One could say it’s because Tifa is hot, and that’s true, but Cloud isn’t into just having sex with people or he would have gone along with Jessie, who was also hot and thirsty AF.
what a beautiful video
👏👏👏 Well done! Another banger by TanaGreekNose.
I've tried staying out of the shipping war but after all the videos I've seen I have to say something that will pass off clarity shippers and I apologize ahead of time if this comment gets long. Clarity shippers are exactly like sephiroth. Sephiroth has a traumatic experience and he can't handle it so he builds a false personality based off what he knows at the time but later when he learns the truth he comes up with a whole new twisted personality perverted by his original messed up thinking and fails to see the point or true meaning of things. The first time clarity shippers play the game they get traumatized from aerials death and twist the narrative based off what they know at the time thinking she'll come back or something but then when they beat the game and realize she's not coming back they come up with a completely different narrative to suit the twisted story they had originally came up with and fail to see all the thematic reasons aerith needs to die and stay dead. It's literally written in the music that aerith dies and tifa and cloud get together. When you first play the game and hear aeriths theme it sounds hopeful but sad as well and it doesn't make sense why until she dies and then it makes sense. Nobuo uematsu was told what happens to every character so he wrote each characters music to reflect them as a character and their journey through the story. I bring up the music vecause I watched videos analyzing the music and it said all that about aeriths song analyzing why nobody chose each individual note. With tifas song he called it home and the whole song is actually a musical representation of cloud and tifas story. It was written with what's called a home key where you start and withe same note but he changes this to fit the song. There's two instruments one to represent cloud and one for tifa and the song starts with both on the same note but instead of coming back to the same note they always play a note that sounds like the original but isn't and it's not till the end of her song that both instruments finally play the same original note. It's leaxactly like how cloud and tifa are constantly trying to come together but just when you think they will something happens drive a new wedge between them and its not till the end that they finally come together. I'd love to see clarity shippers argue that.
I like Clerith.
I don’t think Cloud and Aerith will end together, it was a beautiful dream that ended.
I wanted to believe Cloud&Tifa end together.
But only Clifans say that.
Most times i get vibes of Cloud ending unable of move along.
That the game creators made the ending so ambiguous doesn’t help.
Thanks to the music argument, didn’t knew it.
Yes, the initial intention was Clifa as endgame.
I like that idea.
But the saga has evolved since the first game.
I think in the final fight aganst Sephiroth, will be Tifa who help Cloud, and not only Cloud.
Thanks for this friend ❤❤❤❤
Thanks for this video 🥰 You did an amazing job analysing rebirth. (27 years!!!!!!)
Thank you. 😊 There's so much to say, so I hope I've covered just enough!
The Clerith cope in the comments is hella funny
Anyone who says 'cope', 'hella' or 'fact', should not be allowed an opinion ;)
I had to avoid watching all of the streams for this game because my playthrough got delayed, just literally finished it an hour ago. Now I can finally catch up. And yeah, Cloud/Tifa > everyone else.
Nice! I hope you enjoy what you find here!
Sometimes, I introspect (a little), wondering if I'm looking hard for the scenes/signs & we're jus echo-chamber reinforcing each other's thoughts in the same direction. But nah… we really didn't need to look too hard, jus needta keep eyes open, maybe consolidate some key moments, as Tana has done a great job with here.
I sit fine with the lamenters who have different preferences & wished the case was different but most of the deniers are just lost cause. Nice presentations & discussions like this are mainly meant for us & open-minded ones.
(At least for me) Nice little garden of love for Tifa's character & by extension because her deep unconditional love, Clo-Ti (since Cloud is still much a bone-head to me :P)
Cloti = Canon ❤ that’s it , It always was
Nothing but Fanon
You nailed it.
Aww thank you!
Not me re-watching this 3 times already because it's so good! (‘’❛ - „)❀
When Tana uploads a new video - and my reaction: ♬♪(ง ᵕωᵕ)ว♬♪ 💃🏻 ♪┏(・o･)┛♪┗ ( ･o･) ┓♪
Not me loving this comment! Hahaha thank you solbunny! ❤
@@tanagreeknose7376(„• ֊ •„) I always have fun watching your videos. Keep up with the good work!! (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ ☜(ﾟヮﾟ☜)
Really appreciate your way of wording 🙇♀️
Appreciate you!
I really like cloti but the 'nakama' line in the church isn't necessarily scene as platonic, the characters used could be romantic/platonic when they could've used just platonic. Kind of like cloud saying to Tifa, 'we're childhood friends, right'? That wouldn't mean there's nothing going on between them. And if you read the ultimania you'll find that Cloud and Aerith we're growing closer, instead of apart like you said. Again, I do love cloti, but your videos might hold more weight without the untruths. 😅😅 Great video though, I just hope you'll do more research instead of making things up. There were more things in the video which I noticed were like that but these are the main ones. I hope you take my advice!
Hey, this? This video? It's good. Tifa's good. Good work.
Also a note here when you mention the camera panning away during the kiss; this was a trick done in old hollywood movies to imply sex in an era where it couldn't be shown. It's a pretty clear signpost of what happened in there if you know what to look for.
I gotta say it’s so annoying how toxic Claeriths got so upset by Cloud and Tifa kissing that they started saying total bs stuff like “it’s optional and non canon”, “Cloud holding Aerith’s hand is more romantic”, “everything confirms he loves Aerith”, “in Advent Children he is miserable with Tifa and would rather be with Aerith”, and then some claiming he only kissed her on the cheek and saying Cloud and Aerith will kiss in the final part. I love Aerith but that’s not happening.
😆Cloud and Aerith kiss in the final part...? Unless these Clerith's have powers like Aerith's who can see the future or that they work for Square Enix, at this point, we can tell that they are really really desperate that just stating the C x T date is optional is not good enough to convince them that it means nothing. And who parted their lips to kiss the cheeks. It will look like this 😙instead.
Them denying Cloud was leaning in to kiss Tifa in the Gongaga scene is also crazy. Cloud was looking at her lips, and we can use the painting behind Cloud as a reference for the position of his head. I'm convinced that's the reason the painting is there in the first place. We can literally see his nose move past a point on the painting but Clerith's deny it by saying it was just the camera zoom.
I'm so done with them. I adore Aerith and I avoid Clerith shippers like the plague cos they're downright militant and obnoxious under Cloti posts/videos etc.
Don't want to resent my girl cos of annoying shippers that can't shut it. (Plus, I've been a hard-core Zerith for years since I adore their relationship more. They're fun and cute together sorry I'll shut up)
They call tifa a rebound. Cleriths are scum of the earth especially that aru streamer and that reunited or whatever account on twitter
I want you to be aware that this woman used to harass Clerith fans and minors on ff7 message boards back in the day by spamming racial slurs and graphic images and also photoshopped a minors face onto scat pornography because of her hate for the ship. She is the last person you want to associate with even as a Cloti.
Cloud and Tifa. Clotiiiiiiiiiiii❤❤❤❤
Lunch and a CloTi video? Don’t mind if I dooooo (also do I see the ffvii shirt from Uniqlo?)
Lmao! It sure is! 😉
It’s a love story about both. Cloud is in love with both Tifa & Aerith.
@@terencebc It's an interesting take. I'm not quite on board, but I respect your right to share it!
@@tanagreeknose7376 not to be rude but… it’s just a fact.
Like, for example, Cloud is not in love with Barret, even if we have all the affinity in the world, it never gets romantic, that’s also a fact.
Cloud has plenty of romantic moments with both Tifa and Aerith throughout both games and it’s very intentionally made. I’d be lost if anyone could legitimately deny this. Who asks intensely to a girl if she still loves her crush and tells her to forget about his ass. Who brings up said crush when he’s on a date with his other love interest too??
Like. It’s ok to acknowledge he loves both, your ship is still valid under this reality.
@@terencebc I think Zack was brought up as an answer to the last chapter in Nibelheim- Cloud remembers him this time and how crazy he was about Aerith. Cloud and Tifa also discuss him during their trek with Yuffie. That was the context I saw that from, which is why I didn't really think him bringing it up as a topic for discussion on the Gondola was weird or undermined his feelings for Tifa at all.
@@tanagreeknose7376 bringing up Zack is fine, but the way he insisted on Aerith’s feeling for him is obviously from a romantic framing. There’s countless examples like this throughout both games, the devs know.
Also, Cloud’s feelings for Tifa aren’t compromised by his feelings for Aerith, it’s normal to have feelings for multiple people, Aerith is an example of that too, she also loves Zack.
@@terencebc You are free to imagine those interactions with Aerith as romantic if you want, but you saying it doesn't make it true. The scene your reference is exactly what a guy would say to his sister or best friend if he knew the man she was hung up on was likely dead. You see it as romantic because it's what you want to see or have been told. Ultimately the difference is that Cloud and Tifa have scenes that are explicitly romantic with no other explanation while Cloud and Aerith have moments that you can make romantic in your head if you squint at them long enough and that's what you want to see. There are no scenes with Aerith where making her Cloud's sister or close friend doesn't work comfortably. And yes, there are moments with Tifa you can see either way also. In fact, I see only 2 explicitly romantic interactions in all of Rebirth and both are Cloud and Tifa. Gongaga and the date. EVERYTHING else, with both girls, can be explained as close friendship, but those two scenes end this debate imo. No one can tell me with a straight face the developers wanted to put both girls on even footing but then give only one of them a kiss. That's an outlandish claim imo.
None of this diminishes Aerith. She is a great character with a higher purpose in the story than love interest. Her job is to save the planet and when the time comes, she leaves Cloud and her friends behind to make the sacrifice to do her part.
A youtuber named Dutchdread has a wonderful video going over the differences between the narrative and the plot in FFVII. I highly recommend it for anyone still confused.
Anyone know the link to this dialogue translation difference? 16:43
i don't but Cloud does say "nakama" wich in japanese means "comrade"
I understood their relationship but it doesn't excuse Advent Children's depiction of it. And Advent Children doesn't just drop the ball on Tifa and Cloud relationship, it struggles with capturing characterizations in general, namely Cloud's. When I saw it as a 14 year old I liked the action scenes and found the aesthetic to be "cool" but I just wasn't experienced enough to view the story beyond the surface. In retrospect, that movie's story did not age well... The ambiguity in Tifa and Cloud relationship makes it hard to re watch.
Pacing in the OG FF7 is hard when you take off the nostalgia glasses too. A major reason why the Remake trilogies take on Cloud and Tifa's relationship feels so refreshing is because it seems to utilize a lot of the imagination we used to fill in the gaps of the original and expanded materials. Their relationship feels more organic and fits the situations its developed in. We're actually seeing two young adults act like young adults and not two characters being brought together during necessary checkpoints (albeit Rebirth has a number of sections that do feel like that).
Its seeing what they have done in Remake and Rebirth that really makes me want to see retellings in the expanded material as well. Because I shutter at the idea of seeing what we've gotten so far only to walk into the horrible regression that is Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.
Someone isn’t watching Advent Children COMPLETE version of the movie.
I'll second that and say the Complete version is a lot better than the original release. Still not what I would have wanted, but better.
I'm not sure if the pacing of the overall game is better necessarily in the remakes, but the pacing of Cloud and Tifa's relationship is a lot better. Having it build instead of having almost all of it jammed into the second half of the game.
@@TonyKanameKuran Jokes on you, I have and it didn't make it any better. If anything it made it worse, the "more context" did nothing to dispel the absurd mischaracterizations.
I'm starting to think the people who defend Advent Children are either nostalgia blind or actually think depression is cool.
@@Otis-Spunks The only joke in this mofo is YOU, asswipe! You're in full fucking denial that Cloud had already chosen to be with the woman who saved his life and memory Tifa Lockhart.
The problem is that you're too goddamn **tarded that Nojima is the writer, not your ignant ass! Go cry someplace else besides here. @ me again and I'll rip you a bigger assh4le!
My biggest issue with AC isn't the way it tries to dance around their relationship, but rather it's the way they regressed Cloud's character just for the sake of having him go through the same development again. That said, the complete version is still a lot better than the original.
✨❣️Clotis for the win❣️✨
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💫✨🪽❣️🪽❣️🪽❣️✨💫
WOW! 🤗🤗 Thanks for your generous donation!
👏👏👏👏cloti 👍👍
I was trying to look for the part where Cloud said "We're comrades, aren't we?" on yt but I only found the ones that say "Yeah, Next time."
So there's two versions of this scene, is that it? So the one he mentions about being a comrade is the high or low affection points?
Anyways, I suddenly had a thought, who was the one who carried Tifa back to Cissnei's house, Barret or Cloud? I'm thinking Barret because of wobbly Cloud but he could have snapped out of it and volunteered.
But I don't get why people ship Cloud x Aerith even after watching AC. I kinda feel bad for her because she's always the one taking the initiative to get his attention only to get a lukewarm response. Unlike her with Zack which complement one another. So I was happy to see that she was with Zack in the other life at the end of AC, hence, shipping them.
Funny enough regardless who carried her back to Cissnei’s house Cloud is still the one sitting in her room just waiting for her to wake up with that pitiful look of guilt on his face. I wouldn’t be surprised if he begged to stay in the room with her and never left the entire time till the next day
@@Step43099 The carrying part it's hard to say but I can't imagine Cloud not carrying her if he was physically able to. As to the staying in the room with her, yea, I'd bet money he doesn't leave her room and doesn't eat or sleep either. He's got to be experiencing unfathomable levels of emotional pain at that time. Tifa is still able to pull him back together though. It's pretty much her superpower.
Yeah the JP and the English are different. In the JP, he says 'we're comrades/friends' and I think the English is 'Why not?' Then the other line I think if you get Aerith in Ch8/12 are 'yeah next time' or 'of course in the JP'. No matter what line you get though, almost nothing changes in the scene except what Aerith repeats from him. She still looks sad after and says at least I know where we stand, going on about the difference between like and 'like'. That's actually a ToTP reference b/c Tifa knows she likes Cloud but isn't sure she loves him, then realizes she loves him at the water tower.
Aerith seems to be having the opposite realization that she likes Cloud, but it might not be romantic love.
@@StygianStilettosGamer I've finished the game but I can't recall the dialogue I got for this scene.
The 'yeah next time' was in chapter 14 actually (both the eng and Jap have this. And I only came across this version while searching through youtube), when they hug in the church in the alternate timeline. But this video shows a different response from Cloud with the "Why not," so I was a little confused. But after much research, I got my answer now. It's the affection points thingy.
With these two versions, when Cloud says, 'Nakama...' and then Aerith says, '"Now I know where you and I stand" it is clear cut, they're just friends to Cloud. But 'yeah next time' is a bit ambiguous. It can be platonic (Why can't someone want to make more memories with their friend, right?) or maybe a slight crush.
I know that regardless of what his response is, her dialogue doesn't change much. But how the players interpret Cloud's feelings from his response to her, is going to be a matter of debate. I don't care so much about Aerith's or Tifa's feelings for him because theirs is obvious. It's more on deciphering Cloud's. That dude is an enigma.
Stop treating Cloud like an autistic character, lol. You get a choice in the game for a reason. Go with Tifa, kiss, go with Aerith, cross fingers...To most Cloti moments there's a more or less equal amount of Clerith moments that slightly differ in their grander meaning, but all equally telling of a deep romantic interest based on the players choice. You're talking about what the writers wanted to say, are you kidding me? You understand the game was designed to be ambivalent and neutral about a lot of things in order to not flop immediately right? They put in more than one love interest on purpose.
And what is it about people having ship wars with the only two other contenders being dead...it's like, yeah. Cloud and Tifa apocalypse survivors so naturally they're canon...lol.
Woa woa woa... who said anything about Cloud being autistic? And there's nothing neutral and ambivalent about kissing one character but not kissing another. You can't get less neutral than that.
@@tanagreeknose7376 You get this choice, if so your heart desires. You can also ignore Tifa completely. By autistic I mean fans who ignore Cloud's choices in the game, especially in the beginning when he takes his first steps as the main character, with an individual compass. It's also mega annoying when people selectively assume that his lived out fantasy isn't a primary expression of his character development. People talk about canon..There is nothing more canon about Cloud than making choices and living with the consequences of making some bad ones. That's part of his hero's journey. If you lump in Clerith with the works, considering how many heartfelt moments they shared then it also clicks because he ultimately feels responsible for her death. But to claim his only love interest is Tifa, unwaveringly from the beginning is smothering the character and reducing him to being this beloved special needs boy, with Tifa volunteering to be his endearing caretaker. Like Forest Gump and Jenny. If Aerith and Tifa were swapped, this scenario would've actually worked better.
@@ChoompaLoompa1985-uw8lw It's definitely a gameplay choice, but it's also a choice that Cloud makes as a result of the majority of players getting Tifa's affection wheel to max. We don't make him kiss her, we just unlock the scenario that allows us to see how Cloud acts with her specific character.
Cloud definitely feels responsible for Aerith's death as he was right there, but as we see in Advent Children and subsequent official materials, he's dealing with PTSD and the fact that he's dying from Geostigma. He also feels responsible for Zack's death. But Zack and Aerith are described as cherished friends, who also acknowledge that he doesn't "belong" in the white space with them, but with the living, his family, and the children. Tifa and Cloud function as Denzel and Marlene's adoptive family.
There's nothing weird about Cloud having one very specific love interest from beginning to end. Romance can be a major motivator. Nojima literally described it to you in "2000 gil". I didn't make this stuff up. He's not a special needs boy, he's a young man in love. It's a normal thing.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Actually the default option on the skywheel is Aerith, triggered by either maxing her out or averaging the stats.
Yeah, Cloud is dying from Geostigma, which means his flashbacks and migraines didn't stop. He is still suffering, searching and hoping. He's sleeping in the church where he first met Aerith. The song 'Hollow' is Cloud's ode to the woman who came into his life as abruptly as she left, touched his heart in a way no one ever has and left behind a mixture of painful memories. Her life story, her ability to see and know things beyond the senses enchanted Cloud and made him want to stay close to her no matter what. His feelings for her are real. We know this because of his empathic responses to her hidden anguish, which hardly anyone manages to notice. His probing curiousity, though partly prompted by the false context of his imaginary world is gently nudging her to be candid with him, holding nothing back, as she's approaching the realisation that their time together is short.
She goes on two dates with him. One on the Skywheel, the other in her dream. There is no Zack in the picture, Sephiroth is after her, and she chooses to help Cloud, because he is more important. To the story, to us, to her.
Cloud's feelings for Aerith are unrelated to his feelings towards his childhood crush. He's messed up for most of the game and there's no reason to assume his canon choices in the game should necessarily favor Tifa. He distances himself from her on multiple occasions, specifically in Kalm after she accuses him of not being there for her 5 years ago. She wasn't there for him either until he showed up sick in Midgar for which he is grateful, but still...you have the option to not apologise for it.
@@ChoompaLoompa1985-uw8lw This was so wonderfully said, makes me happy being a Cloud and Aerith fan seeing such critical thought and analysis. Keep speaking the truth!
I always got the impression Aerith was putting Cloud in the friendzone before she hugs him in the church. And yea Cloud is still a guy. He might have stronger feelings for Tifa, but if an opportunity comes up with Aerith he ain't saying no. But anyway I don't ship one or the other, but it's pretty obvious that Cloud and Tifa is the canon relationship. It's heavily implied that Cloud and Tifa make a connection between their private parts in the OG.
They are not canon but fanon lol. If they are canon Nojima and Nomura would say it and this war would have been over ages ago. If they simply said “Cloud and Tifa ended up together romantically, are married and have their own children” and actually show it there would no longer be any more debates.
Dirge of Ceberus material confirms that Cloud and Tifa are just childhood friends nothing that states they are romantically together. Even the official twitter account for FF7R friendzoned Cloud and Tifa by posting a picture of Cloud giving Tifa a flower on Friendship Day.
How are you going to say that Cloud has stronger feelings for Tifa when he didn’t even cry when he thought she was dead and at the beginning (Nibelheim Flashback). While Aerith didn’t even die he cried like no tomorrow. His love for Aerith has always been stronger. Even Hollow theme song is about Aerith . He never cried for Tifa once or sing a song about her.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee Well when a man and a woman love each other very much, sometimes they get naked and make a physical connection between their man and woman parts. I dunno man what more do you want? Square want guys and girls like you debating it. It's kinda fun to think about and entertain ideas one way or the other, but Nojima and Nomura and the other writers of the first game made in pretty clear that Cloud and Tifa banged.
Hey man if you prefer Cloud and Aerith as a couple, great. They have a different dynamic than the Cloud/Tifa relationship and that's probably what you identify more with. I don't care either way. I'm just letting you know, when the writers heavily imply that Cloud and Tifa did adult things with each other, that probably means they are a canon couple.
But it's all good. Zack and Aerith and probably getting it on like rabbits in the lifestream.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee Well when a man and a woman love each other very much, sometimes they get naked and make a physical connection between their man and woman parts. I dunno man what more do you want? Square want guys and girls like you debating it. It's kinda fun to think about and entertain ideas one way or the other, but Nojima and Nomura and the other writers of the first game made in pretty clear that Cloud and Tifa did it.
Hey man if you prefer Cloud and Aerith as a couple, great. They have a different dynamic than the Cloud/Tifa relationship and that's probably what you identify more with. I don't care either way. I'm just letting you know, when the writers heavily imply that Cloud and Tifa did adult things with each other, that probably means they are a canon couple.
But it's all good. Zack and Aerith are probably getting it on like rabbits in the lifestream.
@@rsoxboyassuming that Cloud and Tifa actually had segs. How are you so sure that they actually made love to each other? They simply fell asleep and they still had clothes on. If you are so sure that they embraced each other under the highwind, why do they choose to sleep in separate beds in AC? Make it make sense 😭
Also Marlene has already debunked Zerith. You and ur delusions. She is not into Zack and even rejected him in the lifestream in a novel.
@@rsoxboy Zack: "Man, you know Aerith. Out of all the girls I've gotten along with, you truly are the best. After that mission, we could've stayed the way we were and might have been able to continue to go out with each other after I returned home. I hate Sephiroth. And I hate Shinra who's been hiding all the stuff they've been doing."
Aerith: "Someone who's gotten along with so many girls can never become a lover."
Zack: "How mean. I'm nice to everyone."
Aerith: "And that's your bad point. You're not simplistic and awkward like Cloud.
Zack: "But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith."
Aerith: "Only if I get really lonely. Goodnight, Zack."
Zerith debunked.
In japaneese arith dosent say maby when asked aboute zack she just awnsers with jes
I haven't watched the Japanese scene yet but I believe that.
@@tanagreeknose7376 its true i dubble checked
Another interesting Thing in the japanees Version he uses a rarely yoused Word for love when he goes kike those we hate ... the Word is rarely used because it describes a very deep love 😊
@@tanagreeknose7376Another interesting Thing in the japanees Version he uses a rarely yoused Word for love when he goes like those we hate ... the Word is rarely used because it describes a very deep love 😊
@@FinnGrützmacher-e8k Yeeees aishiteru!
#Suckit🤪
#Cloti’sforthewin
Oh my gosh! Thank youuu 😢
It always makes me smile when shippers accuse the other side of being toxic, despite usually sitting on a very long thread of vitriol. There are idiots on both sides. Besides, there's no right perspective on this. No-one knows better than the devs and they themselves say there is no romantic Canon.
You come here, spewing all the standard Clerith talking points from the last 30 years, including my new favorite "hAnDholDIng iS JuSt as RomANtic As kISsing in Japan.", which is nothing but pure copium, not to mention false. Then, when you get called out, instead of trying to defend your ideas, which you can't because you likely just came to troll in the first place, you run away and start a new comment crying about being a victim. Here's some advice for you, don't spout foolishness and you won't be treated like a fool. By the way, did you french kiss your mother yet? I had no issue holding my mother's hand. Odd isn't it? It's almost as if one of those things is explicitly romantic and the other isn't.
Respond or not, I don't care, you were never interested in any honest discussion.
These toxic shippers are the main reason I quit FF7. They're nasty and rude. I can't stand them invading each other's spaces and spouting hate about their favorite characters and opinions.
It’s almost as if Cloud is written as a complex character who is conflicted so that it’s possible for him to FEEL a certain way but be unable or unwilling to act on those feelings. This is supposed to be a tragedy, after all.
Is it?
The game is, and always will be ambiguous in regards to the love triangle. I can list plenty of Clerith moments too, and considering everything Aerith does and says in the OG, Remake, and Rebirth, to say she doesn’t have genuine romantic feelings for Cloud is to say she is toxic. Even in the canon novel based after her death, Cloud is addressed as her beloved/koibito, and that there were many things she wanted to tell him, but she didn’t know what to say, or how. Nojima when talking about his novel, spoke about Cloti in a couple context, then immediately spoke of Clerith in the same context. In CoT and AC Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is uncertain, and nothing after confirms anything. I seriously doubt anything significant is gonna change with part 3 or something else, but we’ll see.
Sorry, but the words "love triangle" does not exist. In addition to that, Aerith had told Cloud (in Remake) not to fall in love with her. "...IT'S NOT REAL!" You're taking things from Nojima out of context. It's not wise for you to create bullshit. Furthermore, Cloud & Tifa's promises are irreplaceable and you know it.
Just you wait until the conclusion. Tifa will play the leading role and repairs Cloud's f*cked up memory... leading to their confession to each other... romantically.
I really really don't think this ambiguity is a thing anymore sure it was back in the OG days in AC he takes a vacation after the church scene asks Tifa too to close the bar for the time being his talk with kyrie he straight up says the 4 of them are family too... In dirge they no longer wear the pink ribbons anymore either. Now it's pretty noticeable who Cloud actually is into in Rebirth in the Remake it was more ambiguous sure but the moment he opened up to her with his vulnerability on top of actually having the first kiss scene in FF7 universe this love triangle is pretty much dead but if they do actually do something in part 3 as you want them to then I hope you will like butchering Cloud's character who does all the stuff for Tifa only to do a 180.
@@TonyKanameKuran The fact you had to swear is pretty telling. And the love triangle was created by Square-Enix from the start, so take your Cloti goggles off. If there is no triangle, nobody would be debating it, yet they are even 27yrs after the OG release. Not to mention this video wouldn’t of even been made, since there would be no reason for it.
A dev has already spoke on the resolution scene, and specifically said that her words are at odds with how she truly feels. It’s clear she’s just trying to spare him any pain, which is precisely what she tries to do again at the end of Rebirth.
How is it taking it out of context, the man himself referred to Cloud and Tifa in a romantic context, then immediately after did the same for Cloud and Aerith. And her calling Cloud her beloved/koibito etc is in the OTWTAS novel, in multiple languages, there’s no getting around that.
That’s great, glad he gets fixed up. And there’s two versions of the Highwind scene for a reason. I don’t think they get into a relationship after this, as even after the game’s end when they are setting up a new home, Tifa thinks he’ll leave once it’s done. Not a sign of a relationship, or not a strong one at least. They then spend the majority of CoT and AC either not getting on, or away from each other. They seemingly don’t sleep in the same bed, and on a few occasions Tifa is stated to have maternal feelings for Cloud. And by the end of AC or in Dirge, what their relationship is isn’t clear or specified, which is why it’s ambiguous.
@@thebrigade7684 Where and when does he talk about a vacation and to close the bar? Even if it’s true, it doesn’t confirm they are in a relationship, and neither does telling Kyrie and Evan that they are a family since Barret is also included in that.
Nothing at the end of AC or in Dirge explains what their relationship is, it could be a couple, or just a family of friends as Barret also lives with them as of Dirge.
He kinda had to, he almost killed her, so he needed to open up one way or another. She learned the truth of a childhood memory, and he obviously feels awful for what he did and believes he’s unworthy of being called a hero. It’s a great moment, a rare vulnerable scene.
The kiss is proven non-canon as of the Rebirth Ultimania. None of the Gold Saucer dates are canon, they were just a fun addition apparently. The devs could easily make things canon by only allowing one choice in those kind of scenes, but they don’t and still provide multiple choices.
When did I state I want them to do stuff? I doubt the ending will change too much. I simply pointed out there’s plenty of Clerith moments too, and that the relationships between the trio is, and continues to be, ambiguous.
Not sure how it would butcher his character, since he’s done plenty for both. None of them belong to one another, they aren’t property. Though on that note, everyone commenting on this vid, or most, want to butcher Aerith’s character by having her be toxic, toying with Clouds emotions. All the flirting, getting close to him, holding his hand, treating him like a boyfriend in the final date etc, are all terrible behaviour if she either doesn’t have feelings for him, or is unsure.
There is a reason why they sleep in separate rooms in AC. Its because they aren’t romantically involved. Possibly due to Cloud being loyal to his soulmate Aerith. I mean the dude constantly talks about wanting to reunite with Aerith in the spin off games. Tifa obviously can’t stand this and has the nerve to actually make him decide and choose between her or Aerith in AC.
Moreover, Cloud choosing to sleep on the floor in Aerith’s church (their spot) speaks 1000 words. Being in the presence of Aerith is what brings him comfort and peace and its obvious that Tifa can’t give him that which is why he leaves. There are hints that Cloud possibly wanted to die because he wanted to be reunited with Aerith. Why would Tifa say “So what? You’re gonna give up and die…is that it?” Even when she entered the church and saw his makeshift bed she could already tell. Aerith obviously doesn’t want that for him because he has so many people (not just Tifa) counting on him in protecting the planet. Notice how a scolding from Tifa in AC barely did anything for him? But when Aerith gives him a few simple words he immediately felt inspired to start forgiving himself.
Compare the final cutscene when Cloud gets healed from Geostigma. Tifa gives Cloud this flirtatious look and he is seen smiling normally and not that interested but the moment he catches a glimpse of Aerith he is completely stunned by her beauty (Just like how he was stunned at her wearing her red and white dress in Remake and Rebirth). The way she looks back at him and smiles. Its obvious that Cloud’s true love is and has always been Aerith.
Disclaimer: NOT a shipper; I like both characters. Prefer Aerith as a character but don't care about the love triangle at all.
Cloud and Tifa's relationship is really not something to idolise. It has psychological entanglements (even without Sephiroth's manipulation) that are borderline unhealthy and would realistically end up in emotional codependency due to mutual trauma. Furthermore, they don't have much personality chemistry at all. I like Tifa but she'd never be able to pull Cloud out of his shell the way Aerith does (Tifa's better in this regard in the remake series than in the OG to be fair, but still pales compared to Aerith). The chemistry Cloud and Tifa have is tender and affectionate, and they are clearly attracted to one another, but there's not a single moment where I watch them and think a full relationship would be able to sustain itself. Even after what happens after the Northern Crater, for sure Cloud is indebted to Tifa. But debt isn't love. I think they'd be the kind of clumsy-but-endearing teenage 'starter' relationship that helps each other grow but isn't going to last. I mean, think of the context of the 'under the Highwind' moment. They literally could die the next day. Feelings and vulnerabilities are gonna be running high + the "no regrets" mentality. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they awkwardly brushed it under the rug after surviving with that exact justification. Just because they have mutual feelings doesn't mean they'd live happily ever after.
Like it or not, Aerith and Cloud obviously have chemistry for days. A truly strong relationship has elements of the kind of friendship they have. But that said, Cloud puts Aerith on a pedestal as some kind of messianic figure as indicated by some of his dialogue on the Highwind insinuating he thought she sacrificed herself intentionally and Aerith's feelings are obviously complicated by everything with Zack. I'll agree their love isn't really romantic, I'd argue it's actually 'above' romantic. It's a powerful and special bond that doesn't need romance to make it special, whereas without said romantic elements, Cloud and Tifa would just be kinda awkward friends. If Cloud and Aerith were hypothetically to end up together, I think they would likely have more longevity, precisely because they are more natural friends.
Anyway, TLDR; FF7 is not really about romance at all and while there's nothing inherently wrong with shipping, make sure you aren't idealising and potentially damaging your own love lives in the process.
Why would an introvert need to be pulled out of their shell. There’s nothing wrong with an introvert. So you mean to tell me the way Cloud acted with Yuffie at the end of their date had to do with Aerith pulling him out of his shell? Just save it and accept the story for what it is. No amounts of “I think” and “I feels” is going to make you right.
@@resetbutton7982 Yeah, I know there's nothing wrong with being an introvert. I am one. But Cloud is repressed and extremely insular. Look at how he is at the beginning of the game. Sharp and blunt. Yes, he's more friendly to Tifa, but he's also pretty matter of fact with her. Tifa doesn't challenge him at all except for "you're scaring me", she doesn't know how to handle his dysfunctions. She's too soft and also damaged herself. In a way there's too much history between them, whereas Aerith has no preconceived notions of who he is and is able to be more natural. She also has more emotional intelligence than anyone in Avalanche by a pretty wide margin. She is good for Cloud's mental health, that's why he's so drawn to her like a little lost child (y'know, 'cause he actually *is*).
Yuffie can also pull Cloud out of his shell, because she's brazen and endearingly high-energy. But she's not a romantic option, is she? And even if she was, she'd be "too much" for Cloud, personality-wise. Also, this is the same date where Cloud says "emotions aren't my thing". What a great basis for any relationship, huh?
Romance is a footnote in FF7, it's about trauma and identity with an overarching theme of "life".
Literally none of my analysis is based on my feelings, either. It's based on my 10+ years experience studying relationships, interpersonal and intrapersonal. So, uh, check yourself.
@@resetbutton7982 Except the story is not a love story at all. The game is about the planet dying and focuses on cloud aerith and sephiroth for obvious reasons. But it also highlights the bonds that cloud never really had has a child and finding the truth about himself. And I’m not saying the others such as tifa and barret aren’t important cause they are and they shouldn’t be undermined by any means, what I am saying that calling this just a love story disrespects the concept of what ff7 is about.
And he’s right cloud and tifa have trauma they aren’t going to fix their issues just by kissing. Cloud honestly isn’t ready for a relationship for either girl he has to figure out who is he which is why I appreciate how aerith wanted to meet the real him and told him to focus on himself.
@@KorokM I never said this was a love story. I said accept the story for what it is. Are you having a problem comprehending?
Not a shipper... Anyway proceeds to write a whole essay about why Aerith is better for a relationship with Cloud
So he kisses Tifa and the next chapters proceeds to go on a date with Aerith and lock fingers with her
lol Cloud's a player
It's not a date... it's an illusion created by Aerith's murderer Sephiroth and Jenova. I get your joke though. Ha ha.
@@TonyKanameKuran you mean the most least likely theory?
4/10 effort. Gotta think a little harder bro
@@Solo_Dohlo I don't remember asking you a goddamn thing. Your ship is dead and Aerith is dead. Move the fook on!
@@TonyKanameKuran i dont remember asking for permission lol
Take some notes kid
All cleriths do is cope lol he holds tifas hands multiple times in remake and rebirth so what is y’all’s point? Imagine having just crumbs to go off of..y’all are dedicated for sure 😂
Why you guys can't accept that clerith is the main cannon ship. The game clearly shows that. When affinity system is neutral it defaults to aerith as your date. Even in the loveless play when you choose Barrett or red as a date the game also defaults to aerith as your companion.
By your logic, in remake Aerith tells Cloud not to fall in love with her “ even if you think you have, it’s not real “
LOL. After Rebirth, laughter is the only response this deserves. Rebirth threw so much dirt on this already dead ship. Not a single thing in the actual game leads you to believe Cloud has any feelings of romantic love for Aerith. Only your own head canon, as always.
They sure have been coping hard these last few months. Man, it must suck so hard to ship Cloud with Aerith.
Especially when evidence after evidence keeps piling up against you, for the past 20+ years.
Sorry dude, it's time to move on, you're only hurting yourself in the long run by sticking with a lie when the truth is obvious. Worst part is, most of you know it too, you're in deep denial.
They sure have been coping hard these last few months. Man, it must suck so bad to ship Cloud with Aerith.
Especially when evidence after evidence keeps piling up against you, and has been for the past 20+ years.
It's time to move on dude, you're only hurting yourself in the long run by sticking with a lie. You're in deep denial, and sad part is, most of you probably know it.
Looks like we have an intruder. You're in critical denial. Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart are the main *CANON* ship. The story may begin with a flower girl named Aerith, but the *REAL* story begins when Cloud Strife met Tifa Lockhart... once upon a time in a peaceful land named NIBELHEIM. Secondly, you're denying again. The affinity system being neutral doesn't automatically indicate Aerith as your date. If neither of your date surpass 50%, you'll end up dating with the boys-- Cid, Vincent, and Cait Sith.
You don't now a f*cking thing about Final Fantasy VII in general. Furthermore, Aerith is dead and will not be coming back. And lastly... your grammer needs a shit ton of work, moran. At the conclusion, Tifa is gonna save her boyfriend (Cloud) as they enter the lifestream and restore his lost memory.
I agree! It's also a love story between Cloud and Aerith. And Cloud and B-Dawg. And anyone else you want it to be.
There is no canon. It's interpretive, Japanese storytelling. SE have a group of people dedicated to ensure the balance between our two heroines is maintained. Every couple has their time to shine, without SE ever confirming one way or the other. They are masterful at always keeping it just obscure enough to allow freedom of interpretation. If SE wanted it to be Tifa, AC would have been very different indeed (they could have had their own children, shared bed etc). If they wanted it to be Aerith, they wouldn't have deleted Aerith in the credits of AC.
It's for everyone but there has never been a confirmed relationship 'canon'. Truly a game for everyone.
Player choice in FF7 is just another of many illusions presented to the player in the first third of the game. The reality is that almost none of the players choices have any effect on anything at all and when Cloud regains his self and his mind, player choice disappears entirely. More relevant to this discussion though, there are NO choices the player can make that result in Cloud being romantic with anyone but Tifa. You cannot force him to kiss anyone else, no matter what you want or what choices you make.
@@talmanes4589 The big event that CloTis talk about is under the Highwind. That, itself is a result of a choice, with a low and high affection route. The low affection has little to no romantic implication, whilst the high has lots. This demonstrates choice impacting right up to the end of the game. To your point, there is no choice in the game that can stop Cloud from seeing Aerith's hand and stating that he is going to see Aerith in the Promised Land.
Are you referring to the kiss in Rebirth? You're looking at that from a very American perspective. In Japan, the 'lovers knot' as Cloud forms with Aerith is very meaningful. Aerith is more popular in Japan, Tifa in the US, hence providing for the respective audiences. That said, the dates were a bit of fanfiction anyway 'removed from the plots of the game.' Not playing down Tifa, simply stating what the Devs have stated for decades - there is no relationship canon.
@@talmanes4589 One thing I would love to know from you though... Would you be happy with the idea that Cloud loved Aerith, then took solace in Tifa once Aerith died? Because IF (which I don't believe) there is a relationship canon, going by the FF7 OG Marketing, it would be that.
@@Silverfish-qv8ig Marketing's only purpose is to sell games and it is not reliable in any way as to the actual plot. In fact, marketing is very often purposefully misleading. Do you think it significant that in the Rebirth state of play trailer they showed part of the Tifa date? Does that make the Tifa date THE canon date because it was in a trailer?
I will entertain the theory that Cloud's Soldier persona is attracted to Aerith because of Zack's memories and it is very interesting that Cloud's alter ego "dies" very shortly after Aerith dies. It also explains why Aerith tells him that even if he falls for her it isn't real, because she knows it isn't the real him. It's a solid theory I saw from a sensible Clerith fan. Basically, Cloud has two personalities inside of him and one (the soldier persona) loves Aerith while the real Cloud loves Tifa. Fake persona Cloud then dies when Cloud's mind is healed with Tifa in the lifestream. Aerith actually has no interaction at all with the real Cloud so logically she can't be in love with him. She's attracted to the Cloud that's mimicking Zack, not actual Cloud. She dies shortly after saying she'd like to get to know the real him without ever doing so.
Also, when I said that choice in FF7 was an illusion, I meant all of it. None of the player's choices really affect anything at all. Sure there are 2 versions of Under the HIghwind scene, but it happens regardless of choice and Cloud affirms that their feelings match in both versions, the only difference is the S E X. In one version they have sex that night, in the other version, they probably have sex a week later. Cloud and Tifa are going together to see Aerith at the end of the OG. Early prediction here, Part 3 will not have an affection system at all and there will only be one single canon version of the scene going forward. They have already done this with things like having Cloud give Tifa the flower which used to be a choice. The new versions imo, have less of even the illusion of choice than the OG game did.
The cold hard truth is Cloud only has romantic options with Tifa and no one else. No one else has ANY romantic options of ANY kind in any version of FF7. Then they come along in Rebirth and have Cloud actively friend zone Aerith and then kiss Tifa and only Tifa while Aerith is alive and available. That seals the deal as far as I'm concerned. Kisses in FF are rare and meaningful and until they have Cloud kiss someone else, which they won't imo, I'm done arguing the obvious. He might feel something for Aerith, or part of him might, but it isn't strong enough to spur him to action the way his feelings for Tifa do and it wasn't important enough for them to even explore in Rebirth. People can hold onto it if they want to, and write their fanfiction to their hearts content, but I find it laughable at this point.
One more thing, that Japanese culture BS you're pushing is entirely false. Just something desperate Cleriths made up to help them cope. That Aerith is more popular in Japan thing has been floated for years although I've seen no one offer any evidence of this. Even if it is true it sure didn't stop them from doing what they did in Rebirth. They have a story to tell, they aren't making changes based on polls imo anyway. The kiss is meaningful in every culture and more romantic than handholding, even in Japan, so cut the crap with that.
I think you're getting a little worked up about this, so I'll leave you be. But just so you're aware, the Aerith handholding is called koibito tsunagi. Look it up! Or even better, try doing it to one of your male friends and see how they react. As it's a purely platonic thing, they won't mind!
I work for a Video Games publisher based in Tokyo. I do have experience in this field, promise!
You are correct. In the OG, it is Tifa or no-one... Or rather, for a concrete act, it's Tifa or no-one. But again, That's a choice the player has and a very real one. In the low affection scenario, they are quite clearly portrayed as friends. Definitely a sweet moment, but nothing happens. In the high affection, I absolutely agree. But that's a distinct player choice.
Surely, there's a part of you that agrees with the following; 'If it was always clear cut with Tifa, why didn't they allow Cloud and Tifa to be happy in AC? Why did they adopt? Why couldn't Cloud tell Tifa he loved her in On a way to a Smile?'
And you also haven't acknowledged that the devs themselves have stated that the dates are fanservice and 'removed from the plot.' That includes Aerith's too.
Again, not talking down Tifa - she's great. But there is no relationship Canon. There never will be. I know that for certain as it's rather profitable for SE to keep this debate unresolved.
O and the 'Aerith in Japan' theory comes from multiple surveys in different comics and websites over here. Tifa is popular too, but Aerith is on a another level. Everytime they design Aerith's face for a version of the game, the Japanese go nuts - it's too manly, or not beautiful enough or too western. Crazy.
There's a rather unfair myth amongst the devs in Japan that US gamers are basic and horny when it comes to romance. I suggest that's why Tifa's scenes are the way they are, but that's just conjecture on my part.
Top 10 things I’m looking forward to the most in Part 3. I will be coming back to this comment in 2-3 years time to see if I’m right or wrong. This comment will NOT be edited:-
1. Debunking Zerith further. Aerith no longer into Zack and is loyal to her true love and soulmate; Cloud Strife. Zack will reunite with Cissnei in Gongaga.
2. Aerith wearing another dress. Possibly a Yellow wedding dress (getting married to Cloud in the church, their spot).
3. Aerith non-optional kiss.
4. Highwind scene being an optional fanservice scene like when Cloud kissed her on the cheek in the Gondola. Debunking the idea that Cloud and Tifa made love to each other under the Highwind.
5. Aerith is alive and stronger than ever in another world because of what Cloud did for her in Rebirth.
6. Cloud confirming to the party that he does NOT have Zack Memories after regaining his true self. Debunking the misinformation that Clotis love to spread saying that Cloud only likes Aerith because he has Zack Memories.
7. Tifa apologizing to Cloud for indirectly bullying him and ignoring him as a kid along with the other boys during the lifestream scene.
8. Cloud and Aerith confirming their love for each other. Ending the shipping war for good.
9. Aerith getting her own scene to counter the Highwind scene. It will be the canon scene that ends up appearing during the credits.
10. Cloud and Aerith duet for the final theme song.
11. Tifa ends up with either Johnny, Emilio, Barret or alone after being friendzoned by Cloud.
If I’m wrong about most of these I will probably never touch FF7 again and will quit the franchise for good. I will GLADLY take the L. Ya’ll can roast me in the comments 😂
If you only like FF7 because of your Clerith ship you might as well leave now lil bro 💀. Tifa and Cloud have intertwined character arcs to complete that are still left while Aerith is basically done outside of the concept of lifestream and potentially seeing Zack again
Hats off to you, my friend. This is a masterpiece of trolling.
@@thebrigade7684We will find out in part 3 lil sis and yes Clerith is THAT important to me. Cloud and Aerith are the faces of FF7 lol what are you on about. These two characters made Sephiroth fall to his knees during the final battle and forced him to tactically retreat. They are a badass battle couple and I’d say its a valid reason to like FF7.
@@CloudStrifeeeeee its really not. You clearly only like clerith. Not FF7. This has to be a joke. FF7 is not even about the romance. Its about the fight against sephiroth and shinra, and accepting yourself for who you are. Please never call yourself a fan of FF7.
@@bellle6206I don’t need a lustful Cloti shipper to tell me that… a lustful cloti shipper such as yourself that enjoys optional fanservice scenes like a kiss to the cheek that forcefully turns the MC into a cheater by the end of the game 😅
Cloud loves tifa but he's in love with aerith.
Cloud cares for aerith but he not in love with her if he was then he would of been okay with all the date and would of sat next to her when she kept patting the ground my friend
At that point cloud believes she's still has feelings for zack, that's why he is acting stiff and nervous. Later on that date when aerith assures it's him she wants to be with, cloud straight up takes her hand and interlocks it. I consider it as more than just caring.
No babes, YOU'RE in love with Aerith. Not Cloud. His friendship with Aerith is important to him just like all his friendships he's made throughout his journey. From the ones that are still alive and those who have departed, he treasures each of them dearly. "There's not a thing I don't cherish!" - that's the quote he told Sephiroth in ACC after he receives his peep talk from Zack.
You can enjoy your fanon ship, heck I have multiple fanon ships that didn't become canon but I don't go lying about how this character "is truly in love with this character although the author/devs have made it more than obvious that the main love interest is this other character they just don't know what they're talking about" for 27 years of my life.
3 decades of lying and falsifying quotes by using AI of all things recently like at one point y'all need to pack up and ride off into the sunset and start making fanart/fanfic to contribute into the shipping space of your fanon ships.
@@sujithg6902 no he takes her hand after she says please let me just have this moment after they have talk about zack . At this point aerith is being truthful and vulnerable but she addresses the fact she was attracted to cloud because he reminds her of zack and when every she try to re-create a moment she had with zack with cloud it doesn’t work the same she realizes that there different but something not quite right with cloud he hiding his true self at this point I do believe she trying to move on and try to address the issue and but we all know she won’t be able to solve it or be around too. Now like I said he cares for her so he indulges her a little and let her have this moment by holding her hand . It really not that hard to understand her date . If your trying to move on from an old relationship you don’t do it by getting with someone who reminds you off them a few similarities is OK but not what cloud has.
@@sujithg6902 He's not acting stiff and nervous about Aerith's feelings for Zack. He feels bad, he didn't remember a friend that was with him in Nibelheim and had an entire flash back of Zack yapping about how much he loves Aerith and then at the bridge he had another flashback (a half truth/lie) Zack dying at that spot. Like he talked shit about him because he thought Zack ghosted Aerith but that was false.
Again, Ben Sabin added extra text that didn't belong in the actual dialogue in that scene. She never tells him in actual text that she wants to be with him, all she said was she's trying to find him and that's why Cloud responds to her like she's crazy. Like hello girl, are you blind? I'm right here next to you.
The hand hold isn't romantic in that scene whatsoever Aerith had asked Cloud for that handhold "just until the rides over" and he's being an actual good friend because Aerith is stressed about everything. So he holds her hand but he also holds hands with everyone in the party at one point or another. So if it's romantic for Aerith in your context then it's romantic for everyone else as well. Then she thanked Cloud about everything but Cloud doesn't feel like he didn't anything to be thanked for.
BUT I GUESS EAT YOUR CRUMBS LOVE??