@@pikmonwolf My Paragon Vanguard Shep didn't bother with sneaking past the Batarians because that involved not charging into things and smashing them. My Renegade Inflitrator didn't because that would involve not killing Batarians.
9:17 - Oh, actually, Shepard waking up because the sedatives failed is the one legitimately cool detail in Arrival, because Shepard being resistant to sedatives after being brought back by Cerberus is established in the opening cutscene of the main game. It feels like this part in particular may have been planned in advance.
I think that Shepard's resistance is because of the Eden Prime Prothean artifact ME1. Dr Chakwas states that anybody else would have died and is baffled how Shep didn't. She states that Shep must have an incredible will.
Do also remember that Shepard is effectively a heavily augmented cyborg who can drink ryncol pretty easily and survive poisons taylored against humans.
Eh, the more you learn about the development, the less plausible anything was planned that far in advance. There was massive changes between where they were going from the start of ME2, though with how long the development phase is plausible they would have the DLC flushed out enough mid development of core game could add some setups.
What was the Normandy doing? Answer: That thing we had to do, you know what thing. The one that the whole ground team had to leave and in the meantime entire crew was captured by Collectors.
Frankly, the Normandy coming in for a bombing run with the Thanix Cannons and dropping in Garrus and the crew inside the Mako would've been absolutely epic for a rescue operation of Shepard! But hey who cares?
I feel like a stealth ship that lost its C.O. for 2+ days actually would hang out near the mass relay because from there they could spy on any ships leaving the system and monitor comms traffic. It would be their best chance at rescuing him if they figured the Batarians were going to try to exfiltrate him from the system. @@pikmonwolf
@kred792 it's not a bad idea but Shepard could've contacted the Normandy for exfil on Arath[???] [Prison planet] or on the way to the Asteroid. How else would he leave the Asteroid, getting a lift back from Kelson? On the planet if he got captured there, radio silence would make sense, the less chatter the better, but on the Asteroid it's almost Alliance territory. Cerberus almost got bankrupt from bringing Shepard back and Hackett doesn't trust anyone more then him, more then a day of radio silence from their most valuable asset is crazy. Shepard wouldn't be as silent to Hackett nor the Normandy. And the Normandy shouldn't just shrug it off and say pfff he'll be fine like its a camping trip.
I do use this DLC as a small development point for Shepard in regards to handling indoctrinated characters. ME1 - Successfully talked Saren down, victory. ME2 - Unable to talk Kenson out of it, chaos ensued. ME3 - Not taking any chance, shoots Illusive Man.
@@pikmonwolf That's what I mean, Shepard's words did nothing and Kenson went nuts. So Shepard didn't give Illusive Man that same chance and put him down.
Except you ignored all the other options. Convincing Saren to kill himself is only an option if you invested enough points into Charm or Intimidate. Even with those options available if you’d rather fight him you still can. Likewise, if you built up your Paragon or Renegade score enough and chose the right dialogue options in your previous encounters, you can convince TIM to kill himself.
You hit on something that always bugged me in the DLCs in ME2 - how they didn't get the cast voice actors back in for any of them. Even though they're with you throughout Overlord and Shadow Broker, note how none of your squadmates (except Liara, which doesn't count since it's a DLC about her) ever speak outside of combat calls. It's actually really eerie once you notice it.
They have some lines, but there are pretty few of them. Most notable ones are after the explosion of trade center and also when you meet Shadow Broker face to face. There might be a few other ones, but those two I remember the most. But Overlord has none, that is true.
Yeah 2 is really bad about that. You don't notice in Bring Down the Sky because there's really only one or two cutscenes. In 3 they actually brought voice actors back and it makes such a monumental difference. Hell they got them ALL back for citadel.
I have one idea how they could have improved the DLC: Have Kaidan/Ashley join you on the mission. Give them something to do in 2. Maybe have them save Shepard instead of them just randomly waking up and using a stupid mech to escape? BTW Omega sucks too, but in a different way. It has better production values and length but it's 80% shooting Cerberus soldiers in red corridors and wasting (in a literal sense) the first on-screen female Turian.
@@pikmonwolf ME3's combat is fun but doing it for three hours with no proper morality choices, fun banter or likable characters drains a man. An Carrie-Ann Moss sounds like she doesn't want to be there.
@@Jnensrevenge I really liked Nyreen, I just felt she was underutilized, but I enjoyed what was there. The lack of proper choices does stink though. It's really just the General's fate and that one game of chicken.
Yeah, that's something I thought about, too. Hackett, the head of the Alliance Navy, sends Shepard out. It'd make sense if he then sent one of their top operatives after them when Shepard doesn't respond. Or to make it even juicier, the Virmire Survivor meets up with the Normandy after Hackett sends them out and the VS and Shepard's love interest/most used squadmate in the game is with them.
@@Jnensrevenge The general felt like Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars Legends. An honorable and smart tactician who isnt just some brainwashed a-hole like pretty much all other cerberus people youre meeting, just on the wrong side of history. Felt like he was one of the most likeable villains in the trilogy. Then again, wasnt hard being more strategic than Arya who just acted like the elephant in the porcealin shop every single time.
Alliance and Council Politicians: *"B-but there are women and children on that Batarian colony!"* Me, loading M-920 Cain with malicious intent: _"Shame."_
One thing I can say is actually good about this DLC is that it actually is a pretty good lead in for ME3. It leaves the “I’m a total badass” tone of ME2 and starts slowly brining you into that sense of “oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck” that permeates all of ME3.
You still get a bit of that in the Last Stand portion, if you survive until the Artifact knocks you out. I won the fight on Insanity and I sure as hell felt like the badass soldier that held off an endless wave of Batarians on Elysium.
@@alexrazim4467 in terms of fighting, yeah it lets you feel like a bad ass, but then there’s the ticking clock reminding you that the reapers are on the way any day now. Then the end of the DLC, where you are left with your only option being to sacrifice an entire star system just to buy the galaxy a bit more time (a regular occurrence in ME3). Story-wise, it’s very in line with the tone of 3.
@@marciimeris503yes! playing me3 felt really depressing which is a great thing given the story. a feeling of dread that you don’t get while playing the former two.
Another thing that gets my goat is when Dr. Kenson blows herself up, you do get a Renegade interrupt that lets you shoot her... Only for her to activate the explosives anyways.
I don't understand why he didn't shoot it out of her hand. A bullet does not kill you instantly like it does here unless you kill the brain. She would actually just push the button because she's going to die anyway.
I didnt care about the batarian helmets. But it did seem insane to me that She would bring Shepard to the base and explain the whole project to him/her. Instead of just thanking Shepard for the rescue and part ways.
The helmets are a minor issue, but like pikmon said they're representative of a larger problem. I'm fucking pissed that he's pointed them out though because now I'll never be able to not notice it lol
Something that drives me crazy in this DLC is that all of the sudden Relays are able to be destroyed. I know that Kenson and Shepard mention that everybody only assumes Relays cannot be destroyed but in ME1, it's an important plot point that the Mu Relay survived a star going supernova. I find it really hard to believe that a Relay could survive a star going supernova but not an asteroid.
My head cannon is concentrated attack points. Supernova just go everywhere and isn't as much physical damage. You have a point of physical impact maybe the relay can't handle it
16:45 I think that after Shepard gets sedated, maybe two of their squad mates could’ve busted them out of the medical bay? Like Shepard radioed the Normandy off-screen telling Joker which asteroid they went to then, during the time Shepard was sedated, Joker and the squad gets suspicious so they go and investigate, fight their way through to Shepard, bust them out, then fight their way back. Hell, you could make the squad breaking into the base a playable segment like how you got to control Joker earlier in ME2. Just an idea I had while watching the video.
A fort Drakon style rescue would've been phenomenal, but I get that they couldn't get all the voice actors back. However what would've been similar and way more feasible would be to have the Virmire survivor rescue you or work with you on this mission.
@@pikmonwolf Honestly that would be cool since it could flesh them out a bit more and justify a little bit of the tension between them and Shepard in ME3 as well.
Make it be where you choose a squadmate to control, and you lead a squad based on the leader. Even if it's limited, it's better than nothing. The idea I have is: Miranda, commanding Jacob and Zaeed (or Garrus if Zaeed dlc isn't obtained) Mordin, commanding Grunt and Jack Thane, alongside Samara and Kasumi Garrus, with Tali and Grunt
@@blueberrypineapples441 a chance to control a squadmate to show their skills outside of three skills. Even if their other skills are from the generic class list, it'd be good regardless
@@pikmonwolf I think that is one of the flaws in how we the player get to see the Batarians. We never see these "good" batarians. I'm not counting the ME3 refugees because they are sadly just set dressing. The best batarian we get to interact with is Bray and he's not exactly a good person. It's hard for us to see the batarains as anything other than a purely chaotic evil species.
@@tomleary508 I suppose the trilogy is more interested in drawing a line between the radical and non-radical Batarians, less so them being 'good' or 'bad'. An example that comes to my mind is the sick Batarian you meet on Mordins recruitment mission. If you choose to save him, he quickly changes his tune and is much less xenophobic against humans.
@Tom Leary I'm glad someone can say something about Batarians that's not just how much they deserve to due horribly. I wish Bioware did a better job fleshing out Batarians in the Trilogy instead of making them these cartoon boogeymen.
Funniest thing about that is if you play ME2 perfectly, when you reach the IFF cutoff, there won't even be a mission to leave the ship for. It's entirely possible you can have no missions left by that point, so Shepard and the squad will just fly off to nowhere.
It feels like Shepard is written to be alone because they couldn't get any of the voice actors for your team mates, not just Joker. Also I feel like the entire DLC was unnecessary from a storytelling point as well. There already was a very compelling and strong reason to have Shepard be on earth in legal trouble in ME3- they worked for Cerberus, a human supremacist organisation. It even felt like ME2 was kinda foreshadowing that you would be facing real negative consequences for being associated with Cerberus, because of how many characters react negatively to learning that you're with them.
Kinda feels strange to be arrested without this dlc. I don't think Shepard would turn himself in when he knows that the reapers are coming, and the fact that most of the alliance is willing to look the other way even if you are working with cerberus. They even give you back your specter status if you just agree not to work in council space.
The thing is without the pressure from the Batarians because of what happened with the relay Shepard may not have been detained. Yes they were working with cerberus, but they have enough clout within the military that some people would trust they did it for good reasons once they leave. Especially since 95% of your activity in 2 was outside of council space anyway.
You’re still a specter so alliance have no authority on you and condemning the re better soldier simply for working with Cerberus is not possible due to the protection of Anderson and hackette who protect him and so the only logical way to force him to stand on earth is to assure peace with batarian cerberus is not enough reason to arrest Shepard
I disagree. "Working with" Cerberus is not a valid excuse for Shepard to be locked on Earth at the start of ME3. Because not every Shepard really works with Cerberus. In fact, most of the choices available in the game make Shepard a double agent. And Shepard's not even just a member of the Alliance in an undercover role, they're a spectre on an undercover op. And as the trilogy really likes to remind us, spectres have ultimate authority to do whatever they please with no oversight. Which is moot regardless because Shepard does have explicit permission from both the Alliance and The Council to operate as a double agent for Cerberus.
The problem starts with indoctrination itself. It was way too OP. No way to detect it, no way to prevent it, and no way to stop it. Time after time the game shows us large groups being indoctrinated, and they didn't even know it was happening to them. So remind me again why the Reapers would even need to fight?
@@mechanomics2649 My point was, the way Indoctrination is repeatedly exhibited in the game, very large groups of people are fully indoctrinated with no clue it was even happening to them. Not one time did any group figure it out and stop it from happening. So there would be NO push back..no fighting back, if the Reapers simply indoctrinated everyone. Start small it some isolated Organics. Indoctrinate them, and then have them carry indoctrination devices into major population centers, and military installations. The entire population would be indoctrinated before they knew what was happening. Keep in mind that the norm is that the cycles don't even know about the Reapers until they are having to fight against them. So, this means that the Reapers always have the element of surprise. Life is chugging along as normal, and then one day the Citadel activates and the Reapers come pouring in, taking everyone by surprise. But, as was the case with Sovereign, they also normally left scouts/watchers in the Galaxy to monitor things. Why wouldn't this Reaper be tasked with getting the indoctrination started...attack a ship, or small settlement, and then indoctrinate them? They had the Collectors. Why not employ them to gather the organics to indoctrinate? The Indoctrination theory is popular for a reason. Indoctrination was portrayed as being so powerful, that there was no real defense against it, making Shepard being indoctrinated, the only realistic option. He was, after all, knocked out by an indoctrination device and woke up days later. As Op as Indoctrination was portrayed, he should have been indoctrinated. it's a plot hole big enough to fly a Reaper invasion fleet through.
why not have the doctor be the only one in the whole facility who was not indoctrinated bc she was kidnapped? and then she's killed when her and shepard go to the facility. that might fix at least a couple plot holes. i still love this dlc tho anything with reaper indoctrination and being able to speak to a reaper have always been my favourite parts of the game even tho talking to harbinger takes like 2 minutes
@@pikmonwolf 2 already ended on a sinister, universal note with the appearance of a full Reaper fleet at the end of the game. ME 3 did such a poor job of following up the plotlines set up in 2.
@@onemoreminute0543 I agree with this. Seeing the entire Reaper fleet heading towards the galaxy at the end of 2 got me so hyped for 3 as a kid. It's such a shame 3 fumbled the ball.
@@emmanuel4989 I've been replaying ME1 and ME2 recently and it's interesting to see where the characters arcs were potentially going to go before the change in writers and time restraints led to rewrites for some in 3. Like with Grunt, as strange as it sounds, it appears as if he was set to become a full on rival to Wrex/Wreav in ME3. Because of how well he passed his Rite of Passage despite being tank bred, literally every Krogan on Tuchanka goes on about how great he is (including the Shaman). And when you talk to Wrex about Grunt passing the trial, he seems almost threatened and semi-concerned by Grunts performance (being the first Krogan to take down a thresher maw since himself) That's why I think it would have been a better idea if, instead of that bizarre coup with Udina occuring on the Citadel, there should have been a potential coup against Wrex/ Wreav after curing the genophage where Grunt could have been the new Krogan leader. You can choose to either advise Grunt in supporting such a coup (Renegade) or dissuade him from doing so (Paragon) (he would after all still have the backing of many Krogan popularity wise). You might choose to support him as you think Wreav/Wrex's ambitions are a threat post-Reaper war even with the genophage cure. You might choose to dissuade him as you're confident in Wrex/Wreav's judgement and that Eve (if alive) can restrain those Krogan ambitions. There are other things too, like how it seems as if the conflict between Jack and Miranda wasn't properly resolved in the story of 3 and there could have been an arc similar to Rannoch focusing on just the two of them over a specific struggle.
@@onemoreminute0543 Yeah I hated the way ME3 basically sidelined most of the ME2 crew. Most of them got relegated to 1 mission and only Garrus and Tali can be used as squadmates. The excuses for why characters like Samara, Grunt and Miranda couldn't join the crew was BS aswell. They send Miranda on a wild goose chase, they say Grunt got injured even though krogan regenerate and heal quicker than any other species and Grunt is supposed to heal even faster given he's the perfect Krogan, and Samara said some nonsense about her code saying she must fight where the war is at its most dire instead of working under shepard who is literally leading the Reaper assault.
"If they see a group of armed soldiers, they'll kill her." However if you don't do the DLC, Hackett sends a group of armed soldiers and solved the problem without Shepard, making Shepard utterly useless in this scenario.
Shepard can instead of warning the batarians, you can call the Normandy for a brief moment. So if pick renegade then you could believe that brief call helped the crew find you.
@@pikmonwolf to me, it's reasonable to assume that the Normandy's sensors picked up that there was an asteroid on a crash course with the mass relay and were there to investigate/quickly escape if it actually hit. they just didn't know Shepard was on the damn thing until they called. some voiced lines showing that would have been nice.
And the worst part is that less than a year after this released, BioWare forgot the most important fact this DLC established, that destroying a Mass Relay results in an explosion that can destroy a star system. edit: Since people keep responding to my comment by claiming this isn't a plot hole or a contradiction, let me refresh your memories. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut, and the relays went from being destroyed to merely damaged. So there was a plot hole, and BioWare tacitly acknowledged it. edit: Since people also keep claiming that because the circumstances are different the results would be different, if these different circumstances would've produced different results, the game would've told us at some point. It didn't. On top of that, Shepard, who knows that destroying a Mass Relay will destroy a star system, doesn't bring this up. Why don't they? They have no reason to believe otherwise. There has never been any hint or foreshadowing that destroying a relay will result in anything less than the destruction of the system its in. Someone who destroyed a relay which then destroyed a star system killing over 300,000 as a result would outright refuse this option out of concern that doing so would destroy Earth (the planet they fought so hard to save), the entire solar system, and most if not all inhabited star systems in the galaxy, and would be worse than just letting the Reapers continue their cycle of galactic omnicide. Again, why don't they? Something like: Shepard: But that will destroy every star system that has a relay. It would be worse than just letting the Reapers kill us all. Hologram Kid: No. You destroyed a star system last time, but it won't happen this time because [technobabble].
I mean does it? Sure the Alpha Relay when detonated will destroy a solar system, but will every relay explode that violently? Maybe it's a flaw with the oldest relay in the galaxy, maybe they originally wanted the mass relays to be galactic in range but realized such a core was too unstable for general use. I mean it's a bit of reverse engineered head cannon but it does at least establish both why only one relay can fling ships across an entire galaxy AND why only the Alpha Relay has a catastrophic detonation.
@@zancloufer 1. If you’re having to resort to headcanon to explain plot holes and contradictions, you’re tacitly acknowledging that a plot hole or contradiction exists. 2. If you’re having to resort to headcanon to explain these things, you’re doing the writer’s job for them and they failed at their job. 3. BioWare tacitly acknowledged this contradiction. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut. So there was a contradiction. Unfortunately it’s the only one that was acknowledged.
I think that's a little unfair since what happened at the end of ME3 was under a different circumstance than what happened at the end of Arrival. It's comparing the act of crudely ramming an asteroid into a Mass Relay with using a weapon (?) that was designed to be used with the Catalyst (aka the Citadel) which then affects the Mass Relays. If they rammed the Crucible directly into a Mass Relay but the result was something different than was shown here then you'd have a point. However, what was shown at the end of ME3 was clearly different than Arrival. I sometimes feel that in the process of criticizing the endings (which is absolutely fair) people tend to misrepresent it, be it unintentionally or intentionally. Though that is only my opinion.
@@rayclay3249 I’m not misrepresenting anything. BioWare tacitly acknowledged this contradiction. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut. So there was a contradiction. Unfortunately it’s the only one that was acknowledged.
Why didn't they time the asteroids collision with the relay at the exact moment the Reapers arrived? The blast would have wiped out a massive chunk of the Reaper armada
@@pikmonwolf Yeah, but odds are depending on how tight you as the player make it to that final cutscene you might manage to wipe out the fleets vanguard if they don't have time to react properly.
Great question with great simple answer. I'm sure it's not cheap to yeet an asteroid at a relay. Even ME1 astroid mission. And the answer is. It was denied about the facts on how reapers were ever real. The citadel dlc confirms this in me3.
@@Helikite Yes, and I would also suggest that the Reapers are just not that stupid. Harbinger makes it clear that they are aware that the asteroid ram is going to happen (probably due to Object Rho?). I do not see them making a "woopies" into the system at the exact wrong moment. There just does not seem to be a way to deceive the Reapers and weaponized the Mass Relay effectively in the time that Shepard has.
I’m going to be honest: while this DLC didn’t always make the most sense, I still loved it. I never really thought about the Batarian helmet thing, To be honest reuse of assets like this isn’t to bad considering it’s common throughout the game, figured Batarians were just scavaging what they could. I liked the Solo mode, it felt unique to the rest of the game. I liked the story, a lot of the plot holes you pointed out I frankly chocked up to the crew fighting against Reaper control and the Reapers not wanting to show their hand to early (no one knew the people were indoctrinated so no Shepard would have been mission success). Add that to they only were by an Artifact and not a Reaper proper, I can forgive everything and chalk it up to “direct intervention was necessary.” Overall it’s a fun turn your brain off mission that sets the stakes for 3. You sacrificed a Colony for time. And that’s just the beginning.
Except Batarians don't scavenge. As shown with state controlled companies like Batarian State Arms, they have the industrial capacity to build their own armor and weapons.
It takes awhile to indoctrinate, so it makes sense why they weren't indoctrinated from the shock. But, why did they not keep Shepard near it while they were out?
I think Object Rho was a reaper communications relay; possibly one of several, similar in function to the leviathan orbs, that could transmit data and commands from dark space, across the galaxy, and all the way into the galactic core. I believe it facilitated Harbinger's observation and communication with, and direct control over, the cybernetically-implanted collectors. If so, it would explain how Harbinger assumed albeit limited control of Dr. Kenson and her team, not to mention while observing Shepard and speaking directly into his mind. As for Shepard being indoctrinated, I personally think Shepard's continued exposure to the reapers, their servants, and their technology had an observable effect on him, given Shepard started having nightmares, which the Rachni Queen might've described as "songs the color of oily shadows".
It can take time for indoctrination to be complete, if they want a useful servant rather than a husk that is. Even Saren who was around Reapers for as long as he was, was able to resist up to a certain point because he was seen as a valuable resource and I'm sure Shepard would be viewed as an extremely good tool if they could get him/her.
This is actuallt a very important plot DLC for renegades, because this is where Shepard gets a real taste for alien blood. Spends the next 6 months in prison thinking about how good it felt. Then got released and immedaitly begins genociding as many races as possible, regardless of logic, topping it off with shooting the star child, the ultaimte renegade move, dooming everyone to die. But by god, they got a lot of red points for that.
@@pikmonwolf "Well, what about Shepard?" "The violently deranged psychopath who can't hold a consistent ideology or morality for ten seconds?" True renegade deserves an in depth study to see if there's any consistency to it across a single game, let alone the series. I think the consistent thing is some form of intense human centric xenophobia, extreme disregard for life, a geniune need to murder and be violent at every opportunity, a strong dislike of anyone telling you what to do, a strong dislike of anyone questioning you or your orders... I'd say it's a kind of facism but then ME2 and 3 come around and you can be renegade against cerberus, leading to some arguments where both sides are literally agreeing with each other, or saying they're right but THEY are the ones who want to do the thing, etc etc. And of course, a true renegade run ends in ME2 with the deaths of every single squad member bar shepard, zheed and mordin. You can kill the later personally by setting him on fire afterwards, and shoot mordin in the back early on in ME3.
@@thebutterflycomposer7130 The one thing consistent with Renegade Shep? Do as much damage as possible/just being an asshole in princip. I wonder why the council does not cut you out of the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Program...
@@Legendendear comes from never really defining what SPECTRES are. Some are super cops like the FBI, some are clearly controlled state terrorists, some are super soldiers, some are really good scientists and investigators, and all of them seem to be extremely good at getting whatever task they are given, done. Shepard is just the most dangerous by far, because they not only have a top of the line stealth ship, fanatical followers, special forces training and oceans of credits and other resources, they are also capable of talking anyone into doing anything - and are extremely capable of doing ANYTHING they feel they need to do. A paragon shepard is terrifying and awe inspiring in equal measure. A renegade shepard is essentially a human reaper, dropping out of the sky and either murdering you or forcing you to bend the knee to their will.
@sw2010-qm8im urgh don't get me started on renegade playthroughs making no sense with cerberus. Either they've been an organisation that shepard has been fighting against for years and has absokure disgust for (paragon) or contempt for (renegade). ME2 though, cerberus is actually right, and renegade shep very quickly falls in line with them, so much so that by the end of that game, they and the illusive man are...either close allies or genuine friends after their chats and debates. At that point, the hardwire to hostility from both sides in ME3 makes no sense. Shepard did everything TIM asked and more, and both get on and agree with each other about bascially everything. So why are they fighting? Sure, indoctrination, but that's weak ass crap.
Arrival feels like Bioware slapped it together in a few weeks because they realized they needed a "good" reason for Shepherd to be on Earth. Edit: air quotes
I honestly think "you worked with Cerberus" is a fair enough reason. Just make it so a different Cerberus cell does something extra bad and Shepard gets caught up in the shitstorm.
@@pikmonwolf Aye, that's a much better explanation. The opening to 3 (if you didn't play the Arrival DLC) raises so many more questions than answers. Why and how is Shepard suddenly on Earth? Who's this James Vega guy? How much time has passed between the end of the Reaper fleet sighting at the end of 2 and now? Has the invasion already began? WHERE THE HELL ARE MY ME2 SQUADMATES? Though to give some credit to the opening, it does perfectly set the tone once the Reapers begin their attack.
You know what that makes some sense. If you destroy the Collector base it would be reasonable to have Shepard return to Earth and rejoin with the Alliance. However if you chose to preserve the base it would make no sense for Shepard to cut ties with Cerberus, return to Earth and hand their ship over to the Alliance. They needed a reason for Shepard to be on Earth with the Normandy and cover all bases, thus The Arrival script was written.
@@onemoreminute0543 ME3 is both one of the worst and best intros to any game I’ve played. Worst if you haven’t played the arrival DLC & all the other unanswered questions and best bc everything else
You know what's absurd? That Joker does say a line! IIRC if you choose to contact Normandy instead of warn Batarians you can hear Joker speak. So they did bring in Seth Green in to voice joker, but they just didn't add any line for him at the end? (I might be misremembering, but I vividly remember hearing Joker in Arrival and being stunned that he was indeed voiced)
@@pikmonwolf Correct. Also begs the question: Why not recycle some more Joker lines for the ending when Normandy picks you up instead of having that random person? Joker definitely has enough lines in the game that can be cobbled together for a brief generic response to being hailed for the pickup. Maybe that was a breach of their contract or something.
@@MagicSpud No, it _raises_ the question. Yes, you're using it wrong. No, it does matter. Yes, the phrase as such exists. No, it doesn't mean what you think it means.
If they were worried about Kensen getting killed, you could just bring Thane and Kasumi. Thane's loyalty mission shows he can get around without being seen and Kasumi can just walk around cloaked if she wants. The premise of this DLC was always flawed and only exists to set up ME3. This would probably be the lowest point in the series in terms of narrative, if the ending to ME3 didn't exist.
@@pikmonwolf I don't think Leviathan fixes ME3's ending problems. "See, you got more stuff about how synthetics and organics don't get along." I ended the Geth-Quarian War with mutual reconciliation. "That won't last we sayz so!" Nah. sloppy writing remains sloppy.
@@shawngillogly6873 Also, "I made Synthetics and Organics agree to co-exist." but the endings are then: "Great! Do you want to destroy all Synthetic life and negate that? Control all Synthetic life and negate that, because it's meaningless when they don't CHOOSE co-existence? Or, merge all Synthetic and Organic life and negate the point?" Literally the ending negates every choice you made unless you were ALWAYS anti-Synthetic. Anti-Geth, Anti-Reaper. No nuance. No chance at redemption.
@@Paradox-es3bl i think for me4 they are gonna make destroy canon but retcon a bit of it like they did with the extended cut. the teaser for me4 is just a big ass crater of a geth face. whether that means they are all dead or liara n crew are looking for them ig we shall see. could be about the search for shepard or something as well
@@Paradox-es3bl Destroy ending still pisses me off it destroyed every reaper technology which includes the mass relays Milky Way shouldn't exist after you choose destroy.
"Kenson is my friend, if they see a squad of armed soldiers they'll kill her." "Copy that Admiral. Kasumi, Thane, stealth op time." Hell my Shepherd is a fucking Vanguard who couldn't sneak to save his life. Best way to get it in without suspicion would be to just send in my stealth inclined teammates.
I digged the music and sense of urgency at least, it’s wild to consider the implications that everything the franchise is dedicated to trying to stop is minutes away. Kudos to the two alternate fail screens for letting the timer run out as well.
Regarding the last point you mentioned, could it be that EDI noticed that somehow a random asteroid with thrusters suddenly started approaching the Mass Relay which prompted them to came in close to investigate which would make sense seeing as they could be searching for their commander who was missing for 2 whole days and this was a possible lead, meaning they already started approaching the asteroid even before Shepard started contacting the Normandy which would (kinda) explain why they were there so early. Of course, I'm just throwing ideas around.
Do we not see Hackett on the Citadel in ME1? Isn't he standing near the steps to the bridge thing we walk across to speak to the Council? Gives us a few side quests?
@@Paradox-es3bl nah thats kahoku and cerberus kills him later on in his quests. (another thing that makes 0 sense for shep to be working with cerb) just like the cerberus orchestrated thresher maw attack in sheps akuze background
I'd like a too 5 countdown. As for the reason why an indoctrinated Kenson just tells Shep on how to stop the Reapers, I figure that the only way to explain it is that this was simply how Harbinger wanted to get Shepard in the proximity of Object Rho and potentially indoctrinate the commander. Note that the Harbinger expresses some interest in Shepard's preservation in Mass Effect 2 and 3, if the Indoctrination Theory is to be believed
That's very fair, they explicitly say they want you alive. But they could've just lied to get you there. Even something as simple as "I'll explain when we get there, you need to see the artifact to understand."
@@pikmonwolf Only answer I can think of is the Reapers assuming that wouldn't satisfy Shepard and there's really no other way to come up with an answer without attaching a headcanon to the writing. Ultimately, that's just how they wrote the thing to get Shepard into the fun zone
2:18 my theory is since dlc is often outsourced, that is exactly what happened here. Its a lack of care on TWO levels: one on the studio directing, and the other on BioWare not doing adequate quality control
I never looked too deeply into Batarian lore, but their feeling of superiority over having four or more than two eyes is interesting, considering Prothean's are revealed to have 4. Even Javik makes a comment about how he doesn't understand other species see with only two eyes.
The thing about Kenson’s indoctrination, remember ppl can act like they aren’t indoctrinated at all half the time. Remember Rana Thanoptis, the asari scientist that was studying indoctrination, she was very much indoctrinated if you saved her ME1, and goes on to kill the other asari when ME3 kicks off. So it’s not out of the realm of understanding that ppl who are indoctrinated can act a little normal or whatever.
Definitely go for a countdown of the best DLC for the Legendary Edition! And yeah, Arrival is my least favorite DLC as well. Mainly because you’re on your own. I love having my squad mates with me on missions
@@pikmonwolf Unrelated to Arrival, or even DLC in general, but speaking of LE: Man I'm so fucking let-down by LE. All they did, it seems, was break ME1 by un-balancing it. I don't want to come off like a Dark Souls player - it should be hard for everybody! Get better! BUT... I'm watching a handful of people play ME for the first time, and I've seen 2 Techs, 1 Vanguard, and 1 Infiltrator; NONE of them use powers all that much. I'm convinced that allowing every class to use every weapon with a high degree of expertise encourages players to do so; if you can only use the pistol as a Biotic, then you're essentially forced to use your powers. Instead, everybody is playing like a slightly weaker Soldier. It's a bummer. Also, the Mako is way OP, which again allows people to play "wrong" and they end up dying, instead of figuring out the "right" way to play and then getting good, so eventually dying less (there was more of a learning curve to the Mako in original edition, which I think is better). Although the speed boost is obviously a massive improvement. I wish they would've tweaked some things instead: now that we know the entire story from 1-3, you can go back and have some choices be more impactful. As an example, I'd have you get something like a 10% boost to your shields vs Geth weaponry in ME3 if, in ME1, you allowed the lady Bhatia's body to be examined by the Alliance. ALSO, dude... have choices TRULY matter. If Mordin dies in ME2, you can't cure the genophage. If Wrex died in ME1, then the Krogans don't unite at all (so if Wrex dies in ME1, then even if Mordin lives and you can cure the genophage, maybe it doesn't matter?) Maybe make Jacob not suck? (Unless he's supposed to suck? Like Javik?) I honestly like Vega, but give him some depth. Re-design Ashley in ME3, because what the fuck was that? (I'd like to have seen every squadmate in ME2 get, like, 3 different outfits: casual, uniform/light armor, and medium/heavy armor, depending on character. I guess the DLC gave every squadmate more options, but mostly they weren't good. Except for the characters whose uniform options went from "good" to "pretty much the same but slightly different".) I would've wanted to fix ME3, shift the focus from Cerberus to the Reapers, like it should've been. Maybe that wouldn't have been feasible... but at least have Cerberus be less plentiful, it's ridiculous. (Or maybe have them be that numerous if you gave Cerberus the Collector base? That would make sense to me, although I'm not sure why you would do that. Maybe you have to give Shepard some sort of boost if you do, so that it's a viable option?) ALSO: I may have said this before (I've said it a few times in comment sections talking about ME, I don't think yours yet, but...) I felt like the developers had a really good idea what "Paragon" was, but with "Renegade" they were much more scattershot. Seems like "Renegade" was pretty much anything that *wasn't* Paragon. Your interaction with Nassana in ME1 is such a perfect opportunity to nail down Paragon vs Renegade: Paragon should help her, because the life of her sister is supposedly at stake. Renegade should tell her "you made your bed, lie in it" and report her to C-Sec, causing her to be arrested. SHE BROKE THE LAW, SHE ADMITTED TO BREAKING THE LAW, BUT YOU, AS A SPECTRE, CANNOT ARREST HER!?! Neither the Paragon nor Renegade route allows you to arrest a law-breaking senator??? WTF??? Or, conversely: Paragon upholds the law and turns her in, while Renegade decides that the law is more guideline than rule and decides that the life of her innocent sister (so we think at the time) is more important than the law.
Arrival seems it had a different script beforehand, but the change in writers changed it into a completely new direction...just like the ending of Mass Effect 3
Joker: "Hey I haven't heard about Shepard in about 2 days, should we be worried?" Squad: "Nah, he was just going to rescue a scientist from Battarian extremists, its probably fine."
I was hoping standing your ground while you're at object Rho would mean you'd have to wade through fewer enemies once you wake up and make a run for Kenson
3:51 that always bugged me, you're telling me that the time that it took to recruit Samara, Thane, Tali, go into a collector trap, do every loyalty mission, recruit legion, and finally do his loyalty mission, is enough to do the suicide mission and see a colonist from Horizon being melted but if i do a single mission after the crew is taken then suddenly a lot of them die? Wtf
Thank you for more Mass Effect videos. I don't know what is it about your ME videos exactly, but I rewatched the few you made several times these past few weeks I can't wait to watch this one. Keep it up man, thank you for the great content
I think it's clear just how many times I've replayed this series and how much I love it despite how mean I am towards it. I am currently replaying it again lmao
For the mission, one change would be to allow a limited squad selection to give some more engagement. Not the full squad, just the ones suited to a mission like this, those being: Mordin (former STG) Kasumi (master thief) Thane (drell assassin) Miranda (the illusive man's right hand woman) Legion (a geth autonomous infiltration unit) Five choices. Hell, limit it to a single squadmate because kenson is a mandatory figure, that works. Maybe give them different dialogue during the infiltration and asteroid escape, and if you chose to bring a squadmate have them free you from the medbay if they're outside, or work with you to get out if inside. Like... Why wouldn't Shepard bring along backup, or at the very least have a plan set in place upon arriving at "the project" site to inform the governor of the system about an imminent danger and to evacuate. Maybe make it a speech check to convince your squad to help the batarians
@monke12354 The thing is, this is an alliance mission, and every character I suggested has a degree of deniability. Miranda works for a known terrorist organisation Kasumi is a known criminal Thane is a documented assassin Legion is a Geth Mordin is former STG, the union merely needs to fabricate evidence of him going rogue
I played arrival just before ME3 was released so the idea that the relays going exploding = mass death was still at the forefront of my brain. So when the original ending of ME3 shows ALL the mass relays exploding I thought I'd killed everyone anyway
I think that they had a different vision for Mass Effect 3 overall, which is why this dlc feels pointless to begin with. Since the EA acquisition the story has started feeling less cohesive with the 2 new entries in the trilogy. The characters in all 3 games are great, but the overall plot really took a hit imo.
Your videos are simply sublime. The viewpoint on that fantastic trilogy that you are sharing with us is just an absolute joy to watch and listen. Great content! May it never end! I should go.
Although it's only a headcanon I heard about, it helps to make a bit more sense of Arrival. The Reapers arriving through the Alpha relay is a red herring. The goal was always the destruction of the Alpha relay to kick-start a war that would weaken multiple Milky Way species, or at the very least, just help to make the Batarian harvest much easier by cutting off a means of escape so the Reapers can build up ground troops without trouble. Kenson and the others at the base were already indoctrinated well before Kenson was captured; you can find a datapad in the prison mentioning that the humans interrogated began babbling incoherently (much like the indoctrinated do when they are too far under a Reaper's control). Once Shepard arrived on the scene, Harbinger (who was monitoring the project the whole time) changed tactics to manipulate Shepard into triggering the destruction sequence themselves. Capturing and sedating Shepard until there was barely any time left would help to keep the pressure on and not allow for any time to think about some key questions. (Only Shepard woke up earlier than intended because their cybernetics overcame the sedatives like in the prologue). Like how the Reapers are travelling to the Alpha relay if they only ever have one relay in dark space that connects directly to the Citadel? Or when has a Reaper artifact ever shown a vision like a Prothean beacon? Never. Yet Object Rho showed Shepard the arrival to set the stakes, and immediately after, everyone in the base turns against them to sell the illusion that this is of the utmost importance. Harbinger could have easily made the population of the base swarm in to destroy the fusion reactor and stop the asteroid from colliding with the relay if it was so inclined, but instead, it allowed everyone to throw themselves at Shepard. Makes me think that Harbinger plays 4D chess while everyone else is playing 3D. The Reapers built the relays. They would know what to make them resistent to (like a supernova) and how to destroy them. Not to mention that they can simply rebuild a relay after they've finished the cycle. As I said, it's all just a headcanon, and probably just major coping and mental gymnastics to make sense of a mess of a story, but I find it does help to ease some of the jank out of this DLC. Oh, I forgot about the squadmates. Talking to Jack and Grunt in ME3 suggests that they started to go their separate ways while Shepard was occupied with the events of the DLC, so perhaps the Normandy was out of system during the days that Shepard was sedated?
For the squadmates part: if you played The Arrival before destroying collectors, Normandy is still absent for 2 days just to arrive in one minute. Jack and Grunt (and pretty much everyone else) got nothing to do only afterwards, because Shepard was in jail for 6 months and The Illusive Man hired them for a one time gig, but that gig isn't completed yet (they could go for a 2 day vacation, sure, but that's just nonsence, The Illusive Man couldn't let his project go to waste). Reapers haven't played 4d chess, they played 1d chess for the quick win: send the signal to the Keepers, capture the Citadel, destroy leaders, turn off relays, consume isolated forces, repeat. This cycle is unique in terms of organics (it seems), because (finally) they are not fully insectoids (+ prothean sabotage + Shepard), so reapers rushed to create proto-human-reaper (1), while flying to the nearest relay in dark space (2) (and dark space could be dangerous, there could be Scourge like in Mass Effect Andromeda). AND in the same time they corrupted batarians with Leviathan of Dis (3), so they probably could attack from three directions. But in the same time they sabotaged their own arrival just to fly straight to Earth 6 months later (and not to the Citadel right now). By the way if you never completed the Arrival, 103rd marine troops "felt" that they should destroy the relay themselves. (maybe around that time Queen of Reapers that fell in disgrace still existed and somehow messed something in reaper's plans. I wonder if she could look like Calamity Empress Ashe from Overwatch or like Mordessa from Enclave). The Arrival dlc could add something to avatar aspect of the reapers: they tend to use local avatars for some reason, maybe just as plan B (Saren for Sovereign, Collector General for Harbinger - later replaced with TIM, and maybe Shepard became Harbinger's avatar in the Arrival's bad ending; also it is funny that TIM somehow took Shepard's place around the Normandy's crew in that ending), although such commitment to the avatar is pretty unsafe (Sovereign even went offline when he lost his Saren avatar). That avatar concept somehow evolved into awakened collectors in mass effect 3 (I wish Javik could meet them face to face, it's a pretty small chance, but he could maybe know or even "read" some of them)
16:35 You know, it’s possible the Project guards disabled Shepard’s comms in his armor while he was sedated to avoid it from being tracked. That might be why they didn’t show up sooner, and it explains both this and the reason he can’t use his helmet comms to contact the Normandy for extraction.
Why wouldn’t the explosion of the mass relay decimate the reapers that are apparently just seconds away from arriving if it’s powerful enough to take out the entire system?
Another plot hole (though I’m not 100% on this one) Matriarch Benezia states in ME1 that the Mu Relay was propelled out of its solar system by an exploding star, but was completely undamaged by it. I’m not convinced a meteor is really enough to destroy something that can shrug off a supernova.
The star was local to the relay but not the one it was orbiting, so the supernova had decades to dissipate before it pushed the Mu Relay out of orbit. A bit like how if you're a few tens of meters from a stick of dynamite you'd feel it going off but not be in huge danger from the blast
Here's how I would rewrite the indoctrination plot: Kenson was not indoctrination and the Project did take precautions to prevent indoctrination. However, the safeguards are not perfect and some of the people on the asteroid have managed to become indoctrinated. Since it's a thing that happens subtly, those who work near Object Rho would slowly become indoctrinated and slowly getting other people indoctrinated. They finally fully take down the shields or whatever around Object Rho and started opening fire on Shepard. The scene then plays out the same way. In two days, fully exposed to Object Rho, nobody could resist the indoctrination. Kenson herself turns out to be very susceptible and began to "see the light" and "embracing the power of the Reapers" though there are a few hope spots as she tried again and again to resist. Shepard would have temporary allies who are not yet fully indoctrinated to fight those who are though they know they would succumb eventually. All they are doing is buy Shepard time to make sure that asteroid does crash into the mass relay. The final confrontation with Kenson would really just be a coup de grace. At this point, I would describe Kenson to have a split personality, being between her old self and her indoctrinated self. She rigged explosives onto herself a la [certain bad groups of people so that they could take out their enemies]. The renegade interrupt is pretty boring as Shepard would just shoot her while the paragon route gets her to blow herself up without her going to the engine controls or reactors to stop the asteroid from accelerating. As for the other stuff, in no particular order: Shepard could insert via a drop pod or something that Hackett provides, could be experimental for stealth drops; the Normandy could have been nearby the whole time after they had lost contact for days and Joker could say "finally! You're there. We're coming to get you, Commander. Hold tight!" and the reason that Shepard can't contact them directly is because some sort of interference or a jammer that only the comms array can punch through; after going to the Project and leaving Aratoth, the reason that Shepard can't contact the Normandy is because there is a specific protocol for communication so Kenson tells him to maintain silence until they get to the station and use their comm array (this part's really weak, though, which shows how big of a plot hole this is).
That comms tower could even function as a "comms tower, wink-wink", as in, the jammer itself. After all, to jam radio, you need to _jam radio,_ and what better equipment to do that with than, well, existing radio equipment.
I remember actually beating the waves of attackers and getting knocked out anyway , they shouldve done an alternate story for if you manage to beat them
Mass Effect 1 indoctrination. A slow decent, something quiet and unalarming until it becomes a Mantra and there's no way to reverse it, no desire to fight it. Whatever is left of you is just a puppet. Saren shows the horrors of indoctrination, making him the best and most tragic Villain in the series. Mass Effect 2 and 3 indoctrination: Used to cover up bullshit writing. Doctor Kenson acts like an idiot rather than a Reaper ally and the illusive man won't shut up about controlling reapers and for some reason alhas super powers in the end.
I will never understand how people complain more about someone, who is a long time fan of the franchise, getting too excited pointing out such a glaring defect in the product, than they complain about the glaring defects of the products. Total inversion of values.
Playing this as a solo sentinel made me want to die. All my abilities are for buffing my allies (trauma from sole survivor), please don't leave me alone.
I usually play most sci-fi games with a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief, but I remember playing this mission and thinking why the hell would Kensen go through all the trouble of telling Shepard every part of the program and lead Shepard to the exact thing they wouldn’t want Shepard to see/destroy only to THEN try to kill Shepard… made no sense to me
There is a mod out there where Arrival now can be triggered at 4 different times which are set on installation. This includes vanilla behavior (post-Horizon), after the Collector Ship, after the Reaper IFF is acquired, and after BOTH the Suicide Mission is done and the Shadow Broker has been dealt with.
@@ADGZone Yeah and i still think Bioware was the laziest company since they never bothered to fix the original mass effect 2 since the number of bugs in the original ME2 still pales in comparison to the number of bugs in the remastered version such as where your companions do the slidewalk bug after your talk with the council (if you saved them in ME1) and the krogan who doesn't hold a weapon before meeting wrex/wreav and then there's a floating shotgun when wrex comes to greet you? Or Tarak when you meet him on Omega during the archangel mission where he has this huge hole in his head if zaeed is in your party? I mean that's a decade-old case of poor programming on the devs part that has bugged generations of gamers and they never bothered to patch it. And it took them Decades to finally addressed it in Legendary Edition but i don't plan on wasting my cash on LE when it should have been dealt with for the 3 games in the past. So the poster for the Arrival DLC is misinformed about what's lazy.
@@vitoldwisniewski all true but at least there are mods that fix everything. played the LE on insanity with 10ish mods recently and it felt like an entirely new game. no annoying bugs/extra flavor and content/better gun and ability balancing
@@jaded-harper Yeah well as Peter Griffin would say, "You know what really grinds my gears? How very few people play the original Mass Effect games let alone mod it because they are too busy working on the Legendary Edition. Well i say The Original Mass Effect Trilogy still needs the love too." 😒 If LE can get good mods with no annoying bugs/extra flavor and content/better gun and ability balancing, then the original ME Trilogy should get the same thing without exceptions.
@@vitoldwisniewski tmi the ot has way better mods still overall. a lot of them couldnt be ported over fully. for example because the LE lacks the multiplayer you cannot mod in any of the abilities from the multiplayer into the singleplayer. which is tragic cause the multiplayer had some insanely fun characters to play as. i still think the LE is just more polished overall. outside of having less mods theres not really any reason to play the ot over le
Dude, you need to direct this anger at writers who thought the Asari, the unsubtly goddess-like, millenia-aged, "long-game" playing, society of open minded, sage-like women...would engage in capitalist copyright law. (See the corporate espionage side quest on Noveria in ME1)
Arrival is also the final nail in the coffin after all the ways Mass Effect 2 fucks up the final conflict setup by the first game. After the base game does its best to take away resources from Shepard, introduce loose cannons and pointless enemies and does nothing to actually solve the ultimate problem, this DLC now (literally) pushes the clock to zero for Shepard and crew by having the Reapers already show up. All this combines to make the job of the third game pretty much impossible, which is a big reason why it‘s such a mess.
The sedatives didn't wear off for no reason. Shepard's cybernetics make him or her extremely resistant to poisons. The gas was enough to put him under sure but he got better. Like with the bartender at omega.
That's fair, but the scene could've been done better. You just kinda go from the fight to instantly waking up, it's clear they mainly just wanted to lower the time until Arrival.
If Mass Relays were that simple to destroy, you'd think Batarian terrorists would have tried to do just that at some point. Or Cerberus for that matter, or Krogan rebels. Plus I'm sure the countless preceding cycles had terrorists too. I think blowing up a mass relay is a far too heavy handed plot element to include without raising hundreds of questions. Plus the fact that seemingly no one has EVER tried it before, or tried again since is just contrived.
I do agree, at the very least it should be a lot more difficult to destroy them. I guess you could say if you're launching a meteor, might as well hit them directly vs waste it on the relay and cut yourself off from here as well, but still... NOBODY tried it?
Also annoying that an Infiltrator Shepard doesn't really get to play to their strengths much here either. Every Shepard has about the same survivability in the sneaky parts. And once the fighting actually starts, if you're not tanky enough (I play Insanity) you're hosed. (Insanity enemies just charge Kenson while aiming at you with little concern for their own survival and have laser accurate aim with hair triggers) Infiltrator's all about getting that alpha-strike in. Edit: ambiguating gender
It has sort of nagged at me about what the Normandy was doing while Shepard was gone for TWO PLUS DAYS. And, now I have to wonder why it wasn’t programmed to drop after you finish the final mission. It definitely would have served as a better merge into ME3, and directly illustrating Shepard’s character and integrity for turning himself in directly after that incident. That and serving to let the players know that even though we hoped the threat HAD been stopped this time, Harbinger’s presence, communicating with Shepard let’s us know who we’re likely to be facing in any anticipated sequel. Probably reinforcing the likelihood of a sequel.
To be fair, the whole "Normandy just appears" is just a common problem in cutscenes in Mass Effect. The further you get through the series, the more the cutscenes just seem to ignore the established lore in the codex including space travel just being instantaneous. Like Mass Effect 1, after Ilos, the Normandy just crosses the entire galaxy in what, 30 minutes? Its disappointing because I read all the codex stuff when I first playerd and was thoroughly engrossed then I watched cutscenes and all the space battles look like generic ship blob fight and none of the principles apply. It makes the world feel very disjointed.
All of the Codex stuff can still apply despite cutscenes and story. Oftentimes these things are just due to time or budget or because following the lore would make for a worse experience. Just shut off your brain and it works. It is what it is.
@@zafelrede4884 Then what's even the point of establishing rules in this universe if they never bother to follow them? The Codex actively encourages you to think about the rules of the Mass Effect universe, you can't just "shut your brain off" when every time you click on something the game encourages you to do the exact opposite by giving you another Codex entry about some random ass control panel on the Normandy
@@zafelrede4884 I don't think you understand what lore and worldbuilding are. Again, if Bioware didn't want people to think about it then why am I constantly getting Codex updates every time I touch a door?
@@nagger8216 the lead writer himself said that towards the end of development they were just cranking out Codex entries until they ran out of time. Story and gameplay comes first, lore comes later.
I just played this yesterday and I actually enjoyed it, but the helmets on the batarians bothered me to, I thought they were human mercenaries, wich would make even less sense.
I think the reason for your team not helping at all is because it was meant to be played after the suicide mission and because of where they actually placed it the game wouldnt know who lived and who died. The best way to resolve this is to make it a post game epilogue mission and throw a line in saying where some characters are or go the shadow broker route and make them silence but there. They could bust into the base and be what unlocks the forcefield.
I think she might have taken precautions at first but they didn’t work. Then she lifted those precautions to indoctrinate the whole team. If the object was out in the open the whole time indoctrination would have happened quicker. As in before the project was operational.
Played this DLC back before the legendary edition and found something interesting, if you go before you go get the Reaper IFF you can get a heavy weapons ammo upgrade and a possibility to get enough Paragon or Renegade points to defuse Jack and Miranda's argument.
I'm going to defend the Normandy hanging out by the relay: While its stealth systems are active it's pretty much undetectable. However doing stuff builds up heat, so if they are made being right by the mass relay means a quick jump.
On top of this maybe they're pulling a Han Solo and hiding out on a nearby asteroid. The Batarians from the prison confirm that there's too many out there for them to search effectively without Kenson narrowing it down.
@@MagicSpud And on top of THAT there's only one real way in or out of that area: The Alpha Relay. The Normandy is going to have the drop on any ship trying to escape the system, so hanging out and waiting for Shepard's captors to show up is a smart idea to maximize use of their stealth systems
Also you'd think the batarians would have some sort of surveying station that could detect that a big fucking asteroid was on a collision course for a mass relay
Tbh, I always figured Kenson was still at the sane stage of indoctrination, kinda like the illusion man until late me3, and as soon as the wave hit shepherd, it pushed her over the edge. Even Saren could be reasoned with and he wanted to kill the council even before he was fully indoctrinated. The helmets were lazy, I never even noticed that but I can 100% agree wth your point here. Honestly, I think the laziest dlc was Javik in me3. That is 100% story important dlc, and they decided to launch the game wthout it and put a price tag on it. Also wouldn’t it make more sense to explode the relay once reapers reached that system so u could take a few out as soon as they arrived but before they could use the relay? Idk, that kinda seems like a strategically better idea if you are killing 300k possible allies just to delay.
Arrival is objectively worse if played before the end mission because instead of seeing Harbinger in the end encounter you see the bug he was controlling that dies on the station at the end. Also, yes please, just make more videos, they are all always good 😃
I absolutely love your Mass Effect videos. They are extremely well done and have opened my eyes to a lot of things in the trilogy. This one is no exception: even though I didn't like the DLC for the illusion of choice, I never considered all the plot holes mentioned. I'd be interested to see which DLCs you consider the best, and maybe a similar top-5 for the worst ones. Or just a ranking of all the trilogy DLCs in general. Also, you can come up with some bullshit for the last plot hole about the Normandy not knowing where Shepard was (for example, TIM tracked them and told Joker to go near the asteroid just in case), but that would still be bullshit. You are definitely right to question that moment.
I always wondered throughout this entire DLC; *where was my squad?? My SHIP???* Shepard has been missing for DAYS and no one has heard from her. Why didn't anyone come and get her? And when you come back, no one says anything about it, no "Shepard, where were you? No one has been able to reach out to you in days, or even locate you." I half expected a mini search team with 2 or 3 squadmates, with your romance option among them, trying to find and assist Shepard. Idk, Kasumi or Thane/Miranda for base game, along with your romantic partner, or Miranda and Jacob as default without paramour.
Jokes on you, that guy at the end of the dlc that said the Normandy was picking you up. He was the shuttle pilot who does the crazy maneuvers like dropping you off on the Shadow Brokers ship hull and getting the hell out of dodge. Don't take this joke seriously.
I believe mass relay destruction caused an issue within the community on how it's possible and I want to explain the possibility of a mass relay destruction in this comment. What are these mass relays? Mass relays are structures within the space that allows people to use it in FTL speed. - "The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the subatomic level."- This passage gives us a vague idea of what they are. As an engineering student the concept of their ability to lock the structure in a place subatomic level shows me that these structures are made from intelligent materials! Intelligent materials are materials response in a way to us that can change their shape or form under stress or absorb impact to protect us from getting injured. So mass relays are made from intelligent materials that can response in a specific way to absorb the damage or even phase through from the object etc. Now, we manage to understand the main material of the mass relays but we still have to explain what is the glowing light inside of those rings. The glowing light inside those rings are eezo or element zero. Element zero is a mineral in the ME universe used in various applications and one of them is mass effect fields. So we can assume that glowing light is creating mass effect field to allow FTL travel between systems. In ME, FTL works with mass relays and mass relays are actually work in a way to increase the mass of the object in order to bend the space and time. These structures placed in certain systems or points in space as well the reason for that is actually tied to why the mass relay destruction is happening actually. Under the knowledge of all the previous points we can assume the mass relay actually increases the mass of the approaching asteroid once it enters its mass effect field. Since there is no input information on destination the mass continues to increase and increase at some point the space-time erupts and the asteroid mass collapse on itself because of the increased mass from the mass relay. Asteroid explodes like a star and creates a supernova, the mass relay survives the supernova but the asteroid then turns into a black hole because of the increased mass and that black hole is the reason for that mass relay to get really destroyed.
May be it's something I've overlooked, but the biggest "wtf" for me was that the Reapers are coming at all through some previously unmentioned mass relay. Wasn't the Citadel the only mass relay that they can use to leave the dark space? And didn't Protheans trap them there by tampering with the signal through which Keepers can activate the relay, which is what Sovereign tried to undo?
I also find it a little weird that the Batarians didn't have people who watched the relay for a living and had no military presence to at least throw spitballs at it.
I absolutely definitely 100% KNOW I played Arrival and yet I don't remember ANY of this. Yea I probably just ran through it hoping I'd get to decimate a few hundred thousand Batarians at the end...
Anderson: “It’s pretty messed up you killed 300,000 batarians, but at least you delayed the invasion of the reapers.”
Shepard: “…There were reapers?”
"305001 birds with one stone"
Colonist, Ruthless, Renegade.
@@gabrielrussell5531 Literally my current playthrough lol
@@pikmonwolf My Paragon Vanguard Shep didn't bother with sneaking past the Batarians because that involved not charging into things and smashing them. My Renegade Inflitrator didn't because that would involve not killing Batarians.
Shepard.
9:17 - Oh, actually, Shepard waking up because the sedatives failed is the one legitimately cool detail in Arrival, because Shepard being resistant to sedatives after being brought back by Cerberus is established in the opening cutscene of the main game. It feels like this part in particular may have been planned in advance.
That's fair, I still wish it was executed better. The scene just goes way too fast
@@pikmonwolf Yeah, I'd say so. Man, this was such a poor showing after Lair of the Shadow Broker.
I think that Shepard's resistance is because of the Eden Prime Prothean artifact ME1. Dr Chakwas states that anybody else would have died and is baffled how Shep didn't. She states that Shep must have an incredible will.
Do also remember that Shepard is effectively a heavily augmented cyborg who can drink ryncol pretty easily and survive poisons taylored against humans.
Eh, the more you learn about the development, the less plausible anything was planned that far in advance. There was massive changes between where they were going from the start of ME2, though with how long the development phase is plausible they would have the DLC flushed out enough mid development of core game could add some setups.
What was the Normandy doing?
Answer: That thing we had to do, you know what thing. The one that the whole ground team had to leave and in the meantime entire crew was captured by Collectors.
Ah right, the thing for the guy
@@pikmonwolf Let me just say, you are doing great job!
Frankly, the Normandy coming in for a bombing run with the Thanix Cannons and dropping in Garrus and the crew inside the Mako would've been absolutely epic for a rescue operation of Shepard! But hey who cares?
I feel like a stealth ship that lost its C.O. for 2+ days actually would hang out near the mass relay because from there they could spy on any ships leaving the system and monitor comms traffic. It would be their best chance at rescuing him if they figured the Batarians were going to try to exfiltrate him from the system. @@pikmonwolf
@kred792 it's not a bad idea but Shepard could've contacted the Normandy for exfil on Arath[???] [Prison planet] or on the way to the Asteroid. How else would he leave the Asteroid, getting a lift back from Kelson? On the planet if he got captured there, radio silence would make sense, the less chatter the better, but on the Asteroid it's almost Alliance territory. Cerberus almost got bankrupt from bringing Shepard back and Hackett doesn't trust anyone more then him, more then a day of radio silence from their most valuable asset is crazy.
Shepard wouldn't be as silent to Hackett nor the Normandy. And the Normandy shouldn't just shrug it off and say pfff he'll be fine like its a camping trip.
You get to kill a ridiculous amount of batarians in this dlc and for that, I can forgive all of its sins.
True, but Mass Effect 3 starts with millions of dead Batarians right out the gate, so it's got some competition.
@@pikmonwolf But you don’t personally have a hand in that, I want to know that I’m the reason why they’re dead.
It's not even that big of a city in terms of population.
Lowkey same....especially after they poisoned us
There should have been a renegade interrupt after the relay blows up where Shep just laughs
I do use this DLC as a small development point for Shepard in regards to handling indoctrinated characters.
ME1 - Successfully talked Saren down, victory.
ME2 - Unable to talk Kenson out of it, chaos ensued.
ME3 - Not taking any chance, shoots Illusive Man.
That makes sense. You don't really get good dialogue with Kenson though. She just rants and raves.
@@pikmonwolf That's what I mean, Shepard's words did nothing and Kenson went nuts. So Shepard didn't give Illusive Man that same chance and put him down.
Except you ignored all the other options. Convincing Saren to kill himself is only an option if you invested enough points into Charm or Intimidate. Even with those options available if you’d rather fight him you still can. Likewise, if you built up your Paragon or Renegade score enough and chose the right dialogue options in your previous encounters, you can convince TIM to kill himself.
feels like my head canon with Eliza Shepard *lol*
I still wish you could have had one last boss fight with TIM even if it wasn’t very good it would still have been better then the ending we got
You hit on something that always bugged me in the DLCs in ME2 - how they didn't get the cast voice actors back in for any of them. Even though they're with you throughout Overlord and Shadow Broker, note how none of your squadmates (except Liara, which doesn't count since it's a DLC about her) ever speak outside of combat calls. It's actually really eerie once you notice it.
They have some lines, but there are pretty few of them. Most notable ones are after the explosion of trade center and also when you meet Shadow Broker face to face. There might be a few other ones, but those two I remember the most. But Overlord has none, that is true.
Yeah 2 is really bad about that. You don't notice in Bring Down the Sky because there's really only one or two cutscenes. In 3 they actually brought voice actors back and it makes such a monumental difference. Hell they got them ALL back for citadel.
@@pikmonwolf Except Dr Chakwas
@keiranbroida2945 yes! Forever the bane of my existence. How could they leave out Karin? We even had Joker!
This is a big part of the reason I never replayed most of the dlcs on my second and third playthroughs
I have one idea how they could have improved the DLC:
Have Kaidan/Ashley join you on the mission. Give them something to do in 2. Maybe have them save Shepard instead of them just randomly waking up and using a stupid mech to escape?
BTW Omega sucks too, but in a different way. It has better production values and length but it's 80% shooting Cerberus soldiers in red corridors and wasting (in a literal sense) the first on-screen female Turian.
I honestly really liked Omega. I love 3's gameplay so I'm happy to have just a big ol' heaping chunk of combat in a cool environment.
@@pikmonwolf ME3's combat is fun but doing it for three hours with no proper morality choices, fun banter or likable characters drains a man. An Carrie-Ann Moss sounds like she doesn't want to be there.
@@Jnensrevenge I really liked Nyreen, I just felt she was underutilized, but I enjoyed what was there. The lack of proper choices does stink though. It's really just the General's fate and that one game of chicken.
Yeah, that's something I thought about, too. Hackett, the head of the Alliance Navy, sends Shepard out. It'd make sense if he then sent one of their top operatives after them when Shepard doesn't respond. Or to make it even juicier, the Virmire Survivor meets up with the Normandy after Hackett sends them out and the VS and Shepard's love interest/most used squadmate in the game is with them.
@@Jnensrevenge The general felt like Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars Legends. An honorable and smart tactician who isnt just some brainwashed a-hole like pretty much all other cerberus people youre meeting, just on the wrong side of history. Felt like he was one of the most likeable villains in the trilogy.
Then again, wasnt hard being more strategic than Arya who just acted like the elephant in the porcealin shop every single time.
My favorite part is that if you choose to not even ATTEMPT to save the **305 THOUSAND** batarians it gives you a mere 4 renegade
yea like why doesnt it give you paragon batarians are a galactic pest
I’m sorry but do you really WANT to save the Batarian colony?
I mean there's always innocent people @@GreenTomas2372 so I've tried to warn them🚶
its because batarian lives do not matter
Imagine wanting to save B*tarians lmao
I got to wipe an entire colony of batarians, easily the best DLC
𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘨𝘰𝘯 𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘮𝘺 𝘣𝘰𝘥𝘺 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢 𝘉𝘢𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘯
@@pikmonwolf something about them makes me want to commit genocide I don't know how they made them so infuriating 😂
Alliance and Council Politicians:
*"B-but there are women and children on that Batarian colony!"*
Me, loading M-920 Cain with malicious intent:
_"Shame."_
@@jonathanoriley8260 *good
@@jonathanoriley8260 There were women and children on Mindoir... i was one of them.
One thing I can say is actually good about this DLC is that it actually is a pretty good lead in for ME3.
It leaves the “I’m a total badass” tone of ME2 and starts slowly brining you into that sense of “oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck” that permeates all of ME3.
That's fair. The tone isn't bad on the surface.
You still get a bit of that in the Last Stand portion, if you survive until the Artifact knocks you out. I won the fight on Insanity and I sure as hell felt like the badass soldier that held off an endless wave of Batarians on Elysium.
@@alexrazim4467 in terms of fighting, yeah it lets you feel like a bad ass, but then there’s the ticking clock reminding you that the reapers are on the way any day now. Then the end of the DLC, where you are left with your only option being to sacrifice an entire star system just to buy the galaxy a bit more time (a regular occurrence in ME3).
Story-wise, it’s very in line with the tone of 3.
Part of why I loved me3 more than 2. It had a more realistic approach to a doomsday. That oh fuck here we go feeling still gives me goosebumps
@@marciimeris503yes! playing me3 felt really depressing which is a great thing given the story. a feeling of dread that you don’t get while playing the former two.
“Why would Shepard destroy the relay?”
I wanted to kill as many Batarians as possible😊
Valid
Colonist Shepard: No reason in particular... it was just something to do.
I tried to warn them, because I'm a Paragon.
Most Paragon colonist Shepard.
@@griffingower1883 bad idea
Another thing that gets my goat is when Dr. Kenson blows herself up, you do get a Renegade interrupt that lets you shoot her... Only for her to activate the explosives anyways.
Right? It's stupid
I don't understand why he didn't shoot it out of her hand. A bullet does not kill you instantly like it does here unless you kill the brain. She would actually just push the button because she's going to die anyway.
Choices.
I didnt care about the batarian helmets. But it did seem insane to me that She would bring Shepard to the base and explain the whole project to him/her. Instead of just thanking Shepard for the rescue and part ways.
That's true. If she'd just parted ways the Reapers would've arrived as planned.
Yeah my first thought was immediate sus from her. It was going too smoothly
Classic villain dialogue you have to brag about hot great you are
The helmets are a minor issue, but like pikmon said they're representative of a larger problem.
I'm fucking pissed that he's pointed them out though because now I'll never be able to not notice it lol
The reapers are full of hubris and probs wanted to kill Shepard in the first wave.
Something that drives me crazy in this DLC is that all of the sudden Relays are able to be destroyed. I know that Kenson and Shepard mention that everybody only assumes Relays cannot be destroyed but in ME1, it's an important plot point that the Mu Relay survived a star going supernova. I find it really hard to believe that a Relay could survive a star going supernova but not an asteroid.
My head cannon is concentrated attack points. Supernova just go everywhere and isn't as much physical damage. You have a point of physical impact maybe the relay can't handle it
Yeah the fact that they explicitly reference a Mass Relay surviving a super nova as a main plot point in the first game, makes it feel a bit odd.
Extreme heat. Not blunt force manipulation of energy.
It's heat vs impact objects.
Umm... Big object going to little object. Something was going to give.
16:45 I think that after Shepard gets sedated, maybe two of their squad mates could’ve busted them out of the medical bay? Like Shepard radioed the Normandy off-screen telling Joker which asteroid they went to then, during the time Shepard was sedated, Joker and the squad gets suspicious so they go and investigate, fight their way through to Shepard, bust them out, then fight their way back. Hell, you could make the squad breaking into the base a playable segment like how you got to control Joker earlier in ME2.
Just an idea I had while watching the video.
A fort Drakon style rescue would've been phenomenal, but I get that they couldn't get all the voice actors back. However what would've been similar and way more feasible would be to have the Virmire survivor rescue you or work with you on this mission.
@@pikmonwolf Honestly that would be cool since it could flesh them out a bit more and justify a little bit of the tension between them and Shepard in ME3 as well.
Make it be where you choose a squadmate to control, and you lead a squad based on the leader. Even if it's limited, it's better than nothing.
The idea I have is:
Miranda, commanding Jacob and Zaeed (or Garrus if Zaeed dlc isn't obtained)
Mordin, commanding Grunt and Jack
Thane, alongside Samara and Kasumi
Garrus, with Tali and Grunt
@@sev1120 That would really cool not gonna lie
@@blueberrypineapples441 a chance to control a squadmate to show their skills outside of three skills. Even if their other skills are from the generic class list, it'd be good regardless
"The only good Batarian is a dead Batarian" - Commander Shepard probably
I mean hey, there's also uh... that one, the uh... the guy who worked with Garrus when he was Archangel.
@@pikmonwolf I like to imagine that Mindoir Shepard was seething inside when Garrus told them that lol
@@pikmonwolf I think that is one of the flaws in how we the player get to see the Batarians. We never see these "good" batarians. I'm not counting the ME3 refugees because they are sadly just set dressing. The best batarian we get to interact with is Bray and he's not exactly a good person. It's hard for us to see the batarains as anything other than a purely chaotic evil species.
@@tomleary508 I suppose the trilogy is more interested in drawing a line between the radical and non-radical Batarians, less so them being 'good' or 'bad'.
An example that comes to my mind is the sick Batarian you meet on Mordins recruitment mission. If you choose to save him, he quickly changes his tune and is much less xenophobic against humans.
@Tom Leary I'm glad someone can say something about Batarians that's not just how much they deserve to due horribly. I wish Bioware did a better job fleshing out Batarians in the Trilogy instead of making them these cartoon boogeymen.
Sadly these are not the only plot-holes in ME2. I never understood the IFF thing with the WHOLE SQUAD LEAVING the ship.
I agree. I did a whole video on that as well lol
@@pikmonwolf oh where and when
@@Jose_Doe u can find it on their channel its called ,,why it is the dumbest section of mass effect 2,,
Funniest thing about that is if you play ME2 perfectly, when you reach the IFF cutoff, there won't even be a mission to leave the ship for. It's entirely possible you can have no missions left by that point, so Shepard and the squad will just fly off to nowhere.
"There's a a dead Reaper who can indoctrinate people and can also be an irrefutable proof for the Council, let's board it and then burn it in the sun"
Oh god, arrival. The only good part of arrival is that I get to choose to kill more batarians.
Especially if you're playing with the colonist background.
@@pikmonwolf a❤
Friggin Renegades.
@@griffingower1883 your not killing batarians your cleansing them
@@bruhgod123 Not unless I'm fighting the Blue Suns or the Batarians on Aratot who don't really give a choice after rescuing Kensen
It feels like Shepard is written to be alone because they couldn't get any of the voice actors for your team mates, not just Joker. Also I feel like the entire DLC was unnecessary from a storytelling point as well.
There already was a very compelling and strong reason to have Shepard be on earth in legal trouble in ME3- they worked for Cerberus, a human supremacist organisation. It even felt like ME2 was kinda foreshadowing that you would be facing real negative consequences for being associated with Cerberus, because of how many characters react negatively to learning that you're with them.
Yeah Me2 didn't get the voice actors back for anything, not even Lair of the Shadow Broker. Really makes you appreciate the Citadel DLC.
Kinda feels strange to be arrested without this dlc. I don't think Shepard would turn himself in when he knows that the reapers are coming, and the fact that most of the alliance is willing to look the other way even if you are working with cerberus. They even give you back your specter status if you just agree not to work in council space.
The thing is without the pressure from the Batarians because of what happened with the relay Shepard may not have been detained.
Yes they were working with cerberus, but they have enough clout within the military that some people would trust they did it for good reasons once they leave.
Especially since 95% of your activity in 2 was outside of council space anyway.
You’re still a specter so alliance have no authority on you and condemning the re better soldier simply for working with Cerberus is not possible due to the protection of Anderson and hackette who protect him and so the only logical way to force him to stand on earth is to assure peace with batarian cerberus is not enough reason to arrest Shepard
I disagree. "Working with" Cerberus is not a valid excuse for Shepard to be locked on Earth at the start of ME3.
Because not every Shepard really works with Cerberus. In fact, most of the choices available in the game make Shepard a double agent. And Shepard's not even just a member of the Alliance in an undercover role, they're a spectre on an undercover op.
And as the trilogy really likes to remind us, spectres have ultimate authority to do whatever they please with no oversight. Which is moot regardless because Shepard does have explicit permission from both the Alliance and The Council to operate as a double agent for Cerberus.
The problem starts with indoctrination itself. It was way too OP. No way to detect it, no way to prevent it, and no way to stop it. Time after time the game shows us large groups being indoctrinated, and they didn't even know it was happening to them. So remind me again why the Reapers would even need to fight?
I wish they'd explored the fact that the Thorian can cure it more.
They didn't. They came and harvested. They used the indoctrinated to do their dirty work.
They'd need to fight because, obviously, people are going to push back on it and it's not like there's no way no one will figure out what's happening.
@@mechanomics2649 My point was, the way Indoctrination is repeatedly exhibited in the game, very large groups of people are fully indoctrinated with no clue it was even happening to them. Not one time did any group figure it out and stop it from happening.
So there would be NO push back..no fighting back, if the Reapers simply indoctrinated everyone. Start small it some isolated Organics. Indoctrinate them, and then have them carry indoctrination devices into major population centers, and military installations.
The entire population would be indoctrinated before they knew what was happening.
Keep in mind that the norm is that the cycles don't even know about the Reapers until they are having to fight against them. So, this means that the Reapers always have the element of surprise. Life is chugging along as normal, and then one day the Citadel activates and the Reapers come pouring in, taking everyone by surprise.
But, as was the case with Sovereign, they also normally left scouts/watchers in the Galaxy to monitor things. Why wouldn't this Reaper be tasked with getting the indoctrination started...attack a ship, or small settlement, and then indoctrinate them? They had the Collectors. Why not employ them to gather the organics to indoctrinate?
The Indoctrination theory is popular for a reason. Indoctrination was portrayed as being so powerful, that there was no real defense against it, making Shepard being indoctrinated, the only realistic option. He was, after all, knocked out by an indoctrination device and woke up days later. As Op as Indoctrination was portrayed, he should have been indoctrinated.
it's a plot hole big enough to fly a Reaper invasion fleet through.
I don’t Think the reapers Can just use indoctrination on a large city let alone a planet and it sometimes takes days for it to work
why not have the doctor be the only one in the whole facility who was not indoctrinated bc she was kidnapped? and then she's killed when her and shepard go to the facility. that might fix at least a couple plot holes.
i still love this dlc tho anything with reaper indoctrination and being able to speak to a reaper have always been my favourite parts of the game even tho talking to harbinger takes like 2 minutes
Yeah that would've been way better, if she got killed by her old team.
The DLC that was needed because BioWare forgot to have the “Empire Strikes Back” of the Mass Effect Trilogy end on a sinister note.
I mean, 2 can definitely end on a bad note if you fuck up the suicide mission. But that's a personal tragedy, not a universal one.
@@pikmonwolf 2 already ended on a sinister, universal note with the appearance of a full Reaper fleet at the end of the game. ME 3 did such a poor job of following up the plotlines set up in 2.
@@onemoreminute0543 I agree with this. Seeing the entire Reaper fleet heading towards the galaxy at the end of 2 got me so hyped for 3 as a kid. It's such a shame 3 fumbled the ball.
@@emmanuel4989 I've been replaying ME1 and ME2 recently and it's interesting to see where the characters arcs were potentially going to go before the change in writers and time restraints led to rewrites for some in 3.
Like with Grunt, as strange as it sounds, it appears as if he was set to become a full on rival to Wrex/Wreav in ME3. Because of how well he passed his Rite of Passage despite being tank bred, literally every Krogan on Tuchanka goes on about how great he is (including the Shaman).
And when you talk to Wrex about Grunt passing the trial, he seems almost threatened and semi-concerned by Grunts performance (being the first Krogan to take down a thresher maw since himself)
That's why I think it would have been a better idea if, instead of that bizarre coup with Udina occuring on the Citadel, there should have been a potential coup against Wrex/ Wreav after curing the genophage where Grunt could have been the new Krogan leader.
You can choose to either advise Grunt in supporting such a coup (Renegade) or dissuade him from doing so (Paragon) (he would after all still have the backing of many Krogan popularity wise).
You might choose to support him as you think Wreav/Wrex's ambitions are a threat post-Reaper war even with the genophage cure. You might choose to dissuade him as you're confident in Wrex/Wreav's judgement and that Eve (if alive) can restrain those Krogan ambitions.
There are other things too, like how it seems as if the conflict between Jack and Miranda wasn't properly resolved in the story of 3 and there could have been an arc similar to Rannoch focusing on just the two of them over a specific struggle.
@@onemoreminute0543 Yeah I hated the way ME3 basically sidelined most of the ME2 crew. Most of them got relegated to 1 mission and only Garrus and Tali can be used as squadmates. The excuses for why characters like Samara, Grunt and Miranda couldn't join the crew was BS aswell. They send Miranda on a wild goose chase, they say Grunt got injured even though krogan regenerate and heal quicker than any other species and Grunt is supposed to heal even faster given he's the perfect Krogan, and Samara said some nonsense about her code saying she must fight where the war is at its most dire instead of working under shepard who is literally leading the Reaper assault.
"If they see a group of armed soldiers, they'll kill her."
However if you don't do the DLC, Hackett sends a group of armed soldiers and solved the problem without Shepard, making Shepard utterly useless in this scenario.
In fairness, she dies anyway.
That group also takes grevious casualties. It actually lowers your War Assets in ME3 if you dont do Arrival by 50 points.
Shepard can instead of warning the batarians, you can call the Normandy for a brief moment. So if pick renegade then you could believe that brief call helped the crew find you.
A solid headcanon, but the message doesn't go through properly, that's why you still need to head to the radio tower at the end.
@@pikmonwolf I agree that's not much to go on. But just throwing it out there dor the renegade Sheps out there lol
@@pikmonwolf to me, it's reasonable to assume that the Normandy's sensors picked up that there was an asteroid on a crash course with the mass relay and were there to investigate/quickly escape if it actually hit. they just didn't know Shepard was on the damn thing until they called. some voiced lines showing that would have been nice.
And the worst part is that less than a year after this released, BioWare forgot the most important fact this DLC established, that destroying a Mass Relay results in an explosion that can destroy a star system.
edit: Since people keep responding to my comment by claiming this isn't a plot hole or a contradiction, let me refresh your memories. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut, and the relays went from being destroyed to merely damaged. So there was a plot hole, and BioWare tacitly acknowledged it.
edit: Since people also keep claiming that because the circumstances are different the results would be different, if these different circumstances would've produced different results, the game would've told us at some point. It didn't. On top of that, Shepard, who knows that destroying a Mass Relay will destroy a star system, doesn't bring this up. Why don't they? They have no reason to believe otherwise. There has never been any hint or foreshadowing that destroying a relay will result in anything less than the destruction of the system its in. Someone who destroyed a relay which then destroyed a star system killing over 300,000 as a result would outright refuse this option out of concern that doing so would destroy Earth (the planet they fought so hard to save), the entire solar system, and most if not all inhabited star systems in the galaxy, and would be worse than just letting the Reapers continue their cycle of galactic omnicide. Again, why don't they? Something like:
Shepard: But that will destroy every star system that has a relay. It would be worse than just letting the Reapers kill us all.
Hologram Kid: No. You destroyed a star system last time, but it won't happen this time because [technobabble].
Right? Accidentally destroying the galaxy in the end, whoops
I mean does it? Sure the Alpha Relay when detonated will destroy a solar system, but will every relay explode that violently? Maybe it's a flaw with the oldest relay in the galaxy, maybe they originally wanted the mass relays to be galactic in range but realized such a core was too unstable for general use. I mean it's a bit of reverse engineered head cannon but it does at least establish both why only one relay can fling ships across an entire galaxy AND why only the Alpha Relay has a catastrophic detonation.
@@zancloufer
1. If you’re having to resort to headcanon to explain plot holes and contradictions, you’re tacitly acknowledging that a plot hole or contradiction exists.
2. If you’re having to resort to headcanon to explain these things, you’re doing the writer’s job for them and they failed at their job.
3. BioWare tacitly acknowledged this contradiction. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut. So there was a contradiction. Unfortunately it’s the only one that was acknowledged.
I think that's a little unfair since what happened at the end of ME3 was under a different circumstance than what happened at the end of Arrival. It's comparing the act of crudely ramming an asteroid into a Mass Relay with using a weapon (?) that was designed to be used with the Catalyst (aka the Citadel) which then affects the Mass Relays. If they rammed the Crucible directly into a Mass Relay but the result was something different than was shown here then you'd have a point. However, what was shown at the end of ME3 was clearly different than Arrival. I sometimes feel that in the process of criticizing the endings (which is absolutely fair) people tend to misrepresent it, be it unintentionally or intentionally. Though that is only my opinion.
@@rayclay3249
I’m not misrepresenting anything. BioWare tacitly acknowledged this contradiction. In the original (i.e. Pre-Extended Cut) ending Hologram Kid said that using the Crucible would destroy the Mass Relays. This line was removed in the Extended Cut. So there was a contradiction. Unfortunately it’s the only one that was acknowledged.
Why didn't they time the asteroids collision with the relay at the exact moment the Reapers arrived? The blast would have wiped out a massive chunk of the Reaper armada
Woulda been cool, but that's such a tight window that it makes sense not to go for it.
@@pikmonwolf Yeah, but odds are depending on how tight you as the player make it to that final cutscene you might manage to wipe out the fleets vanguard if they don't have time to react properly.
Bcuz it hinges on you making no mathematical error. We know Reapers will arrive no matter what so taking out them that way is hell of a gamble.
Great question with great simple answer. I'm sure it's not cheap to yeet an asteroid at a relay.
Even ME1 astroid mission.
And the answer is. It was denied about the facts on how reapers were ever real.
The citadel dlc confirms this in me3.
@@Helikite Yes, and I would also suggest that the Reapers are just not that stupid. Harbinger makes it clear that they are aware that the asteroid ram is going to happen (probably due to Object Rho?). I do not see them making a "woopies" into the system at the exact wrong moment. There just does not seem to be a way to deceive the Reapers and weaponized the Mass Relay effectively in the time that Shepard has.
I’m going to be honest: while this DLC didn’t always make the most sense, I still loved it. I never really thought about the Batarian helmet thing, To be honest reuse of assets like this isn’t to bad considering it’s common throughout the game, figured Batarians were just scavaging what they could. I liked the Solo mode, it felt unique to the rest of the game. I liked the story, a lot of the plot holes you pointed out I frankly chocked up to the crew fighting against Reaper control and the Reapers not wanting to show their hand to early (no one knew the people were indoctrinated so no Shepard would have been mission success). Add that to they only were by an Artifact and not a Reaper proper, I can forgive everything and chalk it up to “direct intervention was necessary.” Overall it’s a fun turn your brain off mission that sets the stakes for 3. You sacrificed a Colony for time. And that’s just the beginning.
I think that's valid. However for what is really supposed to be the final mission of the game, I wish it had been written better.
As a general rule, I don’t make excuses for poor craftsmanship in products I pay for.
Except Batarians don't scavenge. As shown with state controlled companies like Batarian State Arms, they have the industrial capacity to build their own armor and weapons.
@@snakesnoteyes Who said anything about making excuses for poor writing? They're explaining the way they interpreted what is shown.
@@mechanomics2649 gov, that’s an excuse disguised as head canon.
I still want to know what Object Rho was and why Shepard wasn't indoctrinated by it.
It takes awhile to indoctrinate, so it makes sense why they weren't indoctrinated from the shock. But, why did they not keep Shepard near it while they were out?
@@pikmonwolf Probably remnants of clarity during the indoctrination.
I think Object Rho was a reaper communications relay; possibly one of several, similar in function to the leviathan orbs, that could transmit data and commands from dark space, across the galaxy, and all the way into the galactic core. I believe it facilitated Harbinger's observation and communication with, and direct control over, the cybernetically-implanted collectors. If so, it would explain how Harbinger assumed albeit limited control of Dr. Kenson and her team, not to mention while observing Shepard and speaking directly into his mind.
As for Shepard being indoctrinated, I personally think Shepard's continued exposure to the reapers, their servants, and their technology had an observable effect on him, given Shepard started having nightmares, which the Rachni Queen might've described as "songs the color of oily shadows".
My guess? Time.
Simply put, Shep wasn't on that asteroid for long enough to become indoctrinated
It can take time for indoctrination to be complete, if they want a useful servant rather than a husk that is. Even Saren who was around Reapers for as long as he was, was able to resist up to a certain point because he was seen as a valuable resource and I'm sure Shepard would be viewed as an extremely good tool if they could get him/her.
This is actuallt a very important plot DLC for renegades, because this is where Shepard gets a real taste for alien blood.
Spends the next 6 months in prison thinking about how good it felt.
Then got released and immedaitly begins genociding as many races as possible, regardless of logic, topping it off with shooting the star child, the ultaimte renegade move, dooming everyone to die.
But by god, they got a lot of red points for that.
Ah pure renegade playthroughs, a classic chaotic stupid story lol
@@pikmonwolf
"Well, what about Shepard?"
"The violently deranged psychopath who can't hold a consistent ideology or morality for ten seconds?"
True renegade deserves an in depth study to see if there's any consistency to it across a single game, let alone the series. I think the consistent thing is some form of intense human centric xenophobia, extreme disregard for life, a geniune need to murder and be violent at every opportunity, a strong dislike of anyone telling you what to do, a strong dislike of anyone questioning you or your orders...
I'd say it's a kind of facism but then ME2 and 3 come around and you can be renegade against cerberus, leading to some arguments where both sides are literally agreeing with each other, or saying they're right but THEY are the ones who want to do the thing, etc etc.
And of course, a true renegade run ends in ME2 with the deaths of every single squad member bar shepard, zheed and mordin. You can kill the later personally by setting him on fire afterwards, and shoot mordin in the back early on in ME3.
@@thebutterflycomposer7130
The one thing consistent with Renegade Shep?
Do as much damage as possible/just being an asshole in princip.
I wonder why the council does not cut you out of the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Program...
@@Legendendear comes from never really defining what SPECTRES are. Some are super cops like the FBI, some are clearly controlled state terrorists, some are super soldiers, some are really good scientists and investigators, and all of them seem to be extremely good at getting whatever task they are given, done.
Shepard is just the most dangerous by far, because they not only have a top of the line stealth ship, fanatical followers, special forces training and oceans of credits and other resources, they are also capable of talking anyone into doing anything - and are extremely capable of doing ANYTHING they feel they need to do.
A paragon shepard is terrifying and awe inspiring in equal measure.
A renegade shepard is essentially a human reaper, dropping out of the sky and either murdering you or forcing you to bend the knee to their will.
@sw2010-qm8im urgh don't get me started on renegade playthroughs making no sense with cerberus. Either they've been an organisation that shepard has been fighting against for years and has absokure disgust for (paragon) or contempt for (renegade).
ME2 though, cerberus is actually right, and renegade shep very quickly falls in line with them, so much so that by the end of that game, they and the illusive man are...either close allies or genuine friends after their chats and debates.
At that point, the hardwire to hostility from both sides in ME3 makes no sense. Shepard did everything TIM asked and more, and both get on and agree with each other about bascially everything. So why are they fighting? Sure, indoctrination, but that's weak ass crap.
This mission should've had Shepard and the Virmire Survivor working together to rescue Kenson.
This is quickly becoming one of my favourite "video essay" channels. Great work as always!
Hey thanks mate!
Arrival feels like Bioware slapped it together in a few weeks because they realized they needed a "good" reason for Shepherd to be on Earth.
Edit: air quotes
I honestly think "you worked with Cerberus" is a fair enough reason. Just make it so a different Cerberus cell does something extra bad and Shepard gets caught up in the shitstorm.
@@pikmonwolf Aye, that's a much better explanation. The opening to 3 (if you didn't play the Arrival DLC) raises so many more questions than answers.
Why and how is Shepard suddenly on Earth? Who's this James Vega guy? How much time has passed between the end of the Reaper fleet sighting at the end of 2 and now? Has the invasion already began? WHERE THE HELL ARE MY ME2 SQUADMATES?
Though to give some credit to the opening, it does perfectly set the tone once the Reapers begin their attack.
You know what that makes some sense. If you destroy the Collector base it would be reasonable to have Shepard return to Earth and rejoin with the Alliance. However if you chose to preserve the base it would make no sense for Shepard to cut ties with Cerberus, return to Earth and hand their ship over to the Alliance. They needed a reason for Shepard to be on Earth with the Normandy and cover all bases, thus The Arrival script was written.
Arrival is Bioware slapping it together and just create a completely solo mission.
@@onemoreminute0543 ME3 is both one of the worst and best intros to any game I’ve played. Worst if you haven’t played the arrival DLC & all the other unanswered questions and best bc everything else
You know what's absurd? That Joker does say a line! IIRC if you choose to contact Normandy instead of warn Batarians you can hear Joker speak. So they did bring in Seth Green in to voice joker, but they just didn't add any line for him at the end? (I might be misremembering, but I vividly remember hearing Joker in Arrival and being stunned that he was indeed voiced)
He does speak, BUT it's a re-used line from Horizon. So they didn't record anything new.
@@pikmonwolf Oh okay I didn't know!
@@pikmonwolf Correct. Also begs the question: Why not recycle some more Joker lines for the ending when Normandy picks you up instead of having that random person? Joker definitely has enough lines in the game that can be cobbled together for a brief generic response to being hailed for the pickup. Maybe that was a breach of their contract or something.
@@MagicSpud No, it _raises_ the question. Yes, you're using it wrong. No, it does matter. Yes, the phrase as such exists. No, it doesn't mean what you think it means.
If they were worried about Kensen getting killed, you could just bring Thane and Kasumi. Thane's loyalty mission shows he can get around without being seen and Kasumi can just walk around cloaked if she wants. The premise of this DLC was always flawed and only exists to set up ME3. This would probably be the lowest point in the series in terms of narrative, if the ending to ME3 didn't exist.
I honestly think with the extended cut and Leviathan, the ending of 3 is miles ahead of arrival.
@@pikmonwolf I don't think Leviathan fixes ME3's ending problems. "See, you got more stuff about how synthetics and organics don't get along."
I ended the Geth-Quarian War with mutual reconciliation.
"That won't last we sayz so!"
Nah. sloppy writing remains sloppy.
@@shawngillogly6873 Also, "I made Synthetics and Organics agree to co-exist." but the endings are then: "Great! Do you want to destroy all Synthetic life and negate that? Control all Synthetic life and negate that, because it's meaningless when they don't CHOOSE co-existence? Or, merge all Synthetic and Organic life and negate the point?" Literally the ending negates every choice you made unless you were ALWAYS anti-Synthetic. Anti-Geth, Anti-Reaper. No nuance. No chance at redemption.
@@Paradox-es3bl i think for me4 they are gonna make destroy canon but retcon a bit of it like they did with the extended cut. the teaser for me4 is just a big ass crater of a geth face. whether that means they are all dead or liara n crew are looking for them ig we shall see. could be about the search for shepard or something as well
@@Paradox-es3bl Destroy ending still pisses me off it destroyed every reaper technology which includes the mass relays Milky Way shouldn't exist after you choose destroy.
"Kenson is my friend, if they see a squad of armed soldiers they'll kill her."
"Copy that Admiral. Kasumi, Thane, stealth op time." Hell my Shepherd is a fucking Vanguard who couldn't sneak to save his life. Best way to get it in without suspicion would be to just send in my stealth inclined teammates.
Very true. The only time it makes any sense is if you're an infiltrator.
I digged the music and sense of urgency at least, it’s wild to consider the implications that everything the franchise is dedicated to trying to stop is minutes away. Kudos to the two alternate fail screens for letting the timer run out as well.
Regarding the last point you mentioned, could it be that EDI noticed that somehow a random asteroid with thrusters suddenly started approaching the Mass Relay which prompted them to came in close to investigate which would make sense seeing as they could be searching for their commander who was missing for 2 whole days and this was a possible lead, meaning they already started approaching the asteroid even before Shepard started contacting the Normandy which would (kinda) explain why they were there so early. Of course, I'm just throwing ideas around.
100% hit the nail on the head.
it always bothered me how stupid and bad arrival was. it was nice to finally see what hackett looks like, i guess
Agreed, but I wish they'd saved his reveal for the end rather than just unceremoniously opening with a video call.
Do we not see Hackett on the Citadel in ME1? Isn't he standing near the steps to the bridge thing we walk across to speak to the Council? Gives us a few side quests?
@@Paradox-es3bl no, that's admiral kahoku.
@@Paradox-es3bl nah thats kahoku and cerberus kills him later on in his quests. (another thing that makes 0 sense for shep to be working with cerb) just like the cerberus orchestrated thresher maw attack in sheps akuze background
I'd like a too 5 countdown.
As for the reason why an indoctrinated Kenson just tells Shep on how to stop the Reapers, I figure that the only way to explain it is that this was simply how Harbinger wanted to get Shepard in the proximity of Object Rho and potentially indoctrinate the commander. Note that the Harbinger expresses some interest in Shepard's preservation in Mass Effect 2 and 3, if the Indoctrination Theory is to be believed
That's very fair, they explicitly say they want you alive. But they could've just lied to get you there. Even something as simple as "I'll explain when we get there, you need to see the artifact to understand."
@@pikmonwolf
Only answer I can think of is the Reapers assuming that wouldn't satisfy Shepard and there's really no other way to come up with an answer without attaching a headcanon to the writing. Ultimately, that's just how they wrote the thing to get Shepard into the fun zone
@@ItsaDonut Harbinger just has too much of a crush on Shepard to lie to them
After the Blitz, I think Shepard just wanted to kill more Batarians
2:18 my theory is since dlc is often outsourced, that is exactly what happened here. Its a lack of care on TWO levels: one on the studio directing, and the other on BioWare not doing adequate quality control
I never looked too deeply into Batarian lore, but their feeling of superiority over having four or more than two eyes is interesting, considering Prothean's are revealed to have 4. Even Javik makes a comment about how he doesn't understand other species see with only two eyes.
The thing about Kenson’s indoctrination, remember ppl can act like they aren’t indoctrinated at all half the time. Remember Rana Thanoptis, the asari scientist that was studying indoctrination, she was very much indoctrinated if you saved her ME1, and goes on to kill the other asari when ME3 kicks off. So it’s not out of the realm of understanding that ppl who are indoctrinated can act a little normal or whatever.
Dont forget Saren, he can hide the reapers in front of the council fairly well.
Definitely go for a countdown of the best DLC for the Legendary Edition! And yeah, Arrival is my least favorite DLC as well. Mainly because you’re on your own. I love having my squad mates with me on missions
It does suck how squishier classes are really fucked over.
@@pikmonwolf I'd have at least taken some teammates with Stealth training. Kasumi (if you have her dlc), thane, or mordin (STC training)
@@pikmonwolf Unrelated to Arrival, or even DLC in general, but speaking of LE:
Man I'm so fucking let-down by LE. All they did, it seems, was break ME1 by un-balancing it. I don't want to come off like a Dark Souls player - it should be hard for everybody! Get better! BUT... I'm watching a handful of people play ME for the first time, and I've seen 2 Techs, 1 Vanguard, and 1 Infiltrator; NONE of them use powers all that much. I'm convinced that allowing every class to use every weapon with a high degree of expertise encourages players to do so; if you can only use the pistol as a Biotic, then you're essentially forced to use your powers. Instead, everybody is playing like a slightly weaker Soldier. It's a bummer.
Also, the Mako is way OP, which again allows people to play "wrong" and they end up dying, instead of figuring out the "right" way to play and then getting good, so eventually dying less (there was more of a learning curve to the Mako in original edition, which I think is better). Although the speed boost is obviously a massive improvement.
I wish they would've tweaked some things instead: now that we know the entire story from 1-3, you can go back and have some choices be more impactful. As an example, I'd have you get something like a 10% boost to your shields vs Geth weaponry in ME3 if, in ME1, you allowed the lady Bhatia's body to be examined by the Alliance.
ALSO, dude... have choices TRULY matter. If Mordin dies in ME2, you can't cure the genophage. If Wrex died in ME1, then the Krogans don't unite at all (so if Wrex dies in ME1, then even if Mordin lives and you can cure the genophage, maybe it doesn't matter?)
Maybe make Jacob not suck? (Unless he's supposed to suck? Like Javik?) I honestly like Vega, but give him some depth. Re-design Ashley in ME3, because what the fuck was that? (I'd like to have seen every squadmate in ME2 get, like, 3 different outfits: casual, uniform/light armor, and medium/heavy armor, depending on character. I guess the DLC gave every squadmate more options, but mostly they weren't good. Except for the characters whose uniform options went from "good" to "pretty much the same but slightly different".)
I would've wanted to fix ME3, shift the focus from Cerberus to the Reapers, like it should've been. Maybe that wouldn't have been feasible... but at least have Cerberus be less plentiful, it's ridiculous. (Or maybe have them be that numerous if you gave Cerberus the Collector base? That would make sense to me, although I'm not sure why you would do that. Maybe you have to give Shepard some sort of boost if you do, so that it's a viable option?)
ALSO: I may have said this before (I've said it a few times in comment sections talking about ME, I don't think yours yet, but...) I felt like the developers had a really good idea what "Paragon" was, but with "Renegade" they were much more scattershot. Seems like "Renegade" was pretty much anything that *wasn't* Paragon.
Your interaction with Nassana in ME1 is such a perfect opportunity to nail down Paragon vs Renegade:
Paragon should help her, because the life of her sister is supposedly at stake. Renegade should tell her "you made your bed, lie in it" and report her to C-Sec, causing her to be arrested. SHE BROKE THE LAW, SHE ADMITTED TO BREAKING THE LAW, BUT YOU, AS A SPECTRE, CANNOT ARREST HER!?! Neither the Paragon nor Renegade route allows you to arrest a law-breaking senator??? WTF???
Or, conversely: Paragon upholds the law and turns her in, while Renegade decides that the law is more guideline than rule and decides that the life of her innocent sister (so we think at the time) is more important than the law.
Infiltrator is both awesome and super infuriating because of having to use snipers.
Arrival seems it had a different script beforehand, but the change in writers changed it into a completely new direction...just like the ending of Mass Effect 3
Well originally it was supposed to be in an underwater base.
Joker: "Hey I haven't heard about Shepard in about 2 days, should we be worried?"
Squad: "Nah, he was just going to rescue a scientist from Battarian extremists, its probably fine."
I was hoping standing your ground while you're at object Rho would mean you'd have to wade through fewer enemies once you wake up and make a run for Kenson
It's a love letter to Cdr. Shepard who hates those spider eyed freaks. Shepard didn't even do it to stop reapers.
3:51 that always bugged me, you're telling me that the time that it took to recruit Samara, Thane, Tali, go into a collector trap, do every loyalty mission, recruit legion, and finally do his loyalty mission, is enough to do the suicide mission and see a colonist from Horizon being melted but if i do a single mission after the crew is taken then suddenly a lot of them die? Wtf
Thank you for more Mass Effect videos.
I don't know what is it about your ME videos exactly, but I rewatched the few you made several times these past few weeks
I can't wait to watch this one. Keep it up man, thank you for the great content
I think it's clear just how many times I've replayed this series and how much I love it despite how mean I am towards it. I am currently replaying it again lmao
And thank you for the kind words
@@pikmonwolf Of course, I mean it!
For the mission, one change would be to allow a limited squad selection to give some more engagement. Not the full squad, just the ones suited to a mission like this, those being:
Mordin (former STG)
Kasumi (master thief)
Thane (drell assassin)
Miranda (the illusive man's right hand woman)
Legion (a geth autonomous infiltration unit)
Five choices. Hell, limit it to a single squadmate because kenson is a mandatory figure, that works.
Maybe give them different dialogue during the infiltration and asteroid escape, and if you chose to bring a squadmate have them free you from the medbay if they're outside, or work with you to get out if inside.
Like... Why wouldn't Shepard bring along backup, or at the very least have a plan set in place upon arriving at "the project" site to inform the governor of the system about an imminent danger and to evacuate. Maybe make it a speech check to convince your squad to help the batarians
@monke12354 The thing is, this is an alliance mission, and every character I suggested has a degree of deniability.
Miranda works for a known terrorist organisation
Kasumi is a known criminal
Thane is a documented assassin
Legion is a Geth
Mordin is former STG, the union merely needs to fabricate evidence of him going rogue
I played arrival just before ME3 was released so the idea that the relays going exploding = mass death was still at the forefront of my brain. So when the original ending of ME3 shows ALL the mass relays exploding I thought I'd killed everyone anyway
I think that they had a different vision for Mass Effect 3 overall, which is why this dlc feels pointless to begin with. Since the EA acquisition the story has started feeling less cohesive with the 2 new entries in the trilogy. The characters in all 3 games are great, but the overall plot really took a hit imo.
Your videos are simply sublime. The viewpoint on that fantastic trilogy that you are sharing with us is just an absolute joy to watch and listen. Great content! May it never end!
I should go.
Hey thanks man, that means a lot.
How was the Alliance able to build a base on an asteroid with thrusters while in Batarian territory?
That is actually explained. They smuggled in the parts from Omega and built it far away form any of the planets.
@@pikmonwolf Still a giant operation within Batarian territory and the batarians barely suspect?
@@dalekrenegade2596 batarians captured them eventually. so they uncover their operations somehow.
Although it's only a headcanon I heard about, it helps to make a bit more sense of Arrival.
The Reapers arriving through the Alpha relay is a red herring. The goal was always the destruction of the Alpha relay to kick-start a war that would weaken multiple Milky Way species, or at the very least, just help to make the Batarian harvest much easier by cutting off a means of escape so the Reapers can build up ground troops without trouble.
Kenson and the others at the base were already indoctrinated well before Kenson was captured; you can find a datapad in the prison mentioning that the humans interrogated began babbling incoherently (much like the indoctrinated do when they are too far under a Reaper's control).
Once Shepard arrived on the scene, Harbinger (who was monitoring the project the whole time) changed tactics to manipulate Shepard into triggering the destruction sequence themselves. Capturing and sedating Shepard until there was barely any time left would help to keep the pressure on and not allow for any time to think about some key questions. (Only Shepard woke up earlier than intended because their cybernetics overcame the sedatives like in the prologue).
Like how the Reapers are travelling to the Alpha relay if they only ever have one relay in dark space that connects directly to the Citadel? Or when has a Reaper artifact ever shown a vision like a Prothean beacon? Never. Yet Object Rho showed Shepard the arrival to set the stakes, and immediately after, everyone in the base turns against them to sell the illusion that this is of the utmost importance.
Harbinger could have easily made the population of the base swarm in to destroy the fusion reactor and stop the asteroid from colliding with the relay if it was so inclined, but instead, it allowed everyone to throw themselves at Shepard. Makes me think that Harbinger plays 4D chess while everyone else is playing 3D.
The Reapers built the relays. They would know what to make them resistent to (like a supernova) and how to destroy them. Not to mention that they can simply rebuild a relay after they've finished the cycle.
As I said, it's all just a headcanon, and probably just major coping and mental gymnastics to make sense of a mess of a story, but I find it does help to ease some of the jank out of this DLC.
Oh, I forgot about the squadmates. Talking to Jack and Grunt in ME3 suggests that they started to go their separate ways while Shepard was occupied with the events of the DLC, so perhaps the Normandy was out of system during the days that Shepard was sedated?
For the squadmates part: if you played The Arrival before destroying collectors, Normandy is still absent for 2 days just to arrive in one minute. Jack and Grunt (and pretty much everyone else) got nothing to do only afterwards, because Shepard was in jail for 6 months and The Illusive Man hired them for a one time gig, but that gig isn't completed yet (they could go for a 2 day vacation, sure, but that's just nonsence, The Illusive Man couldn't let his project go to waste).
Reapers haven't played 4d chess, they played 1d chess for the quick win: send the signal to the Keepers, capture the Citadel, destroy leaders, turn off relays, consume isolated forces, repeat.
This cycle is unique in terms of organics (it seems), because (finally) they are not fully insectoids (+ prothean sabotage + Shepard), so reapers rushed to create proto-human-reaper (1), while flying to the nearest relay in dark space (2) (and dark space could be dangerous, there could be Scourge like in Mass Effect Andromeda). AND in the same time they corrupted batarians with Leviathan of Dis (3), so they probably could attack from three directions. But in the same time they sabotaged their own arrival just to fly straight to Earth 6 months later (and not to the Citadel right now).
By the way if you never completed the Arrival, 103rd marine troops "felt" that they should destroy the relay themselves.
(maybe around that time Queen of Reapers that fell in disgrace still existed and somehow messed something in reaper's plans. I wonder if she could look like Calamity Empress Ashe from Overwatch or like Mordessa from Enclave).
The Arrival dlc could add something to avatar aspect of the reapers: they tend to use local avatars for some reason, maybe just as plan B (Saren for Sovereign, Collector General for Harbinger - later replaced with TIM, and maybe Shepard became Harbinger's avatar in the Arrival's bad ending; also it is funny that TIM somehow took Shepard's place around the Normandy's crew in that ending), although such commitment to the avatar is pretty unsafe (Sovereign even went offline when he lost his Saren avatar). That avatar concept somehow evolved into awakened collectors in mass effect 3 (I wish Javik could meet them face to face, it's a pretty small chance, but he could maybe know or even "read" some of them)
16:35 You know, it’s possible the Project guards disabled Shepard’s comms in his armor while he was sedated to avoid it from being tracked. That might be why they didn’t show up sooner, and it explains both this and the reason he can’t use his helmet comms to contact the Normandy for extraction.
Why wouldn’t the explosion of the mass relay decimate the reapers that are apparently just seconds away from arriving if it’s powerful enough to take out the entire system?
Another plot hole (though I’m not 100% on this one) Matriarch Benezia states in ME1 that the Mu Relay was propelled out of its solar system by an exploding star, but was completely undamaged by it. I’m not convinced a meteor is really enough to destroy something that can shrug off a supernova.
The star was local to the relay but not the one it was orbiting, so the supernova had decades to dissipate before it pushed the Mu Relay out of orbit. A bit like how if you're a few tens of meters from a stick of dynamite you'd feel it going off but not be in huge danger from the blast
@@williamnixon3994 yeah that’s what I figured. I wasn’t sure about the location of the supernova relative to the relay.
Here's how I would rewrite the indoctrination plot: Kenson was not indoctrination and the Project did take precautions to prevent indoctrination. However, the safeguards are not perfect and some of the people on the asteroid have managed to become indoctrinated. Since it's a thing that happens subtly, those who work near Object Rho would slowly become indoctrinated and slowly getting other people indoctrinated. They finally fully take down the shields or whatever around Object Rho and started opening fire on Shepard. The scene then plays out the same way.
In two days, fully exposed to Object Rho, nobody could resist the indoctrination. Kenson herself turns out to be very susceptible and began to "see the light" and "embracing the power of the Reapers" though there are a few hope spots as she tried again and again to resist. Shepard would have temporary allies who are not yet fully indoctrinated to fight those who are though they know they would succumb eventually. All they are doing is buy Shepard time to make sure that asteroid does crash into the mass relay.
The final confrontation with Kenson would really just be a coup de grace. At this point, I would describe Kenson to have a split personality, being between her old self and her indoctrinated self. She rigged explosives onto herself a la [certain bad groups of people so that they could take out their enemies]. The renegade interrupt is pretty boring as Shepard would just shoot her while the paragon route gets her to blow herself up without her going to the engine controls or reactors to stop the asteroid from accelerating.
As for the other stuff, in no particular order: Shepard could insert via a drop pod or something that Hackett provides, could be experimental for stealth drops; the Normandy could have been nearby the whole time after they had lost contact for days and Joker could say "finally! You're there. We're coming to get you, Commander. Hold tight!" and the reason that Shepard can't contact them directly is because some sort of interference or a jammer that only the comms array can punch through; after going to the Project and leaving Aratoth, the reason that Shepard can't contact the Normandy is because there is a specific protocol for communication so Kenson tells him to maintain silence until they get to the station and use their comm array (this part's really weak, though, which shows how big of a plot hole this is).
Definite improvement
That comms tower could even function as a "comms tower, wink-wink", as in, the jammer itself. After all, to jam radio, you need to _jam radio,_ and what better equipment to do that with than, well, existing radio equipment.
I remember actually beating the waves of attackers and getting knocked out anyway , they shouldve done an alternate story for if you manage to beat them
Random question why does 'The Project' require certain guards to carry flamethrowers?
Rachni maybe?
because it is fun - to flamethrow everything. guys just were on a vacation.
Mass Effect 1 indoctrination. A slow decent, something quiet and unalarming until it becomes a Mantra and there's no way to reverse it, no desire to fight it. Whatever is left of you is just a puppet. Saren shows the horrors of indoctrination, making him the best and most tragic Villain in the series.
Mass Effect 2 and 3 indoctrination: Used to cover up bullshit writing. Doctor Kenson acts like an idiot rather than a Reaper ally and the illusive man won't shut up about controlling reapers and for some reason alhas super powers in the end.
I will never understand how people complain more about someone, who is a long time fan of the franchise, getting too excited pointing out such a glaring defect in the product, than they complain about the glaring defects of the products. Total inversion of values.
Playing this as a solo sentinel made me want to die. All my abilities are for buffing my allies (trauma from sole survivor), please don't leave me alone.
I usually play most sci-fi games with a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief, but I remember playing this mission and thinking why the hell would Kensen go through all the trouble of telling Shepard every part of the program and lead Shepard to the exact thing they wouldn’t want Shepard to see/destroy only to THEN try to kill Shepard… made no sense to me
Colonist Shepard: "That was for Mindoir."
There is a mod out there where Arrival now can be triggered at 4 different times which are set on installation. This includes vanilla behavior (post-Horizon), after the Collector Ship, after the Reaper IFF is acquired, and after BOTH the Suicide Mission is done and the Shadow Broker has been dealt with.
I put the Arrival mission for after I've done everything in the game. Since I always did it after everything
@@ADGZone Yeah and i still think Bioware was the laziest company since they never bothered to fix the original mass effect 2 since the number of bugs in the original ME2 still pales in comparison to the number of bugs in the remastered version such as where your companions do the slidewalk bug after your talk with the council (if you saved them in ME1) and the krogan who doesn't hold a weapon before meeting wrex/wreav and then there's a floating shotgun when wrex comes to greet you? Or Tarak when you meet him on Omega during the archangel mission where he has this huge hole in his head if zaeed is in your party? I mean that's a decade-old case of poor programming on the devs part that has bugged generations of gamers and they never bothered to patch it. And it took them Decades to finally addressed it in Legendary Edition but i don't plan on wasting my cash on LE when it should have been dealt with for the 3 games in the past. So the poster for the Arrival DLC is misinformed about what's lazy.
@@vitoldwisniewski all true but at least there are mods that fix everything. played the LE on insanity with 10ish mods recently and it felt like an entirely new game. no annoying bugs/extra flavor and content/better gun and ability balancing
@@jaded-harper Yeah well as Peter Griffin would say, "You know what really grinds my gears? How very few people play the original Mass Effect games let alone mod it because they are too busy working on the Legendary Edition. Well i say The Original Mass Effect Trilogy still needs the love too." 😒 If LE can get good mods with no annoying bugs/extra flavor and content/better gun and ability balancing, then the original ME Trilogy should get the same thing without exceptions.
@@vitoldwisniewski tmi the ot has way better mods still overall. a lot of them couldnt be ported over fully. for example because the LE lacks the multiplayer you cannot mod in any of the abilities from the multiplayer into the singleplayer. which is tragic cause the multiplayer had some insanely fun characters to play as. i still think the LE is just more polished overall. outside of having less mods theres not really any reason to play the ot over le
Dude, you need to direct this anger at writers who thought the Asari, the unsubtly goddess-like, millenia-aged, "long-game" playing, society of open minded, sage-like women...would engage in capitalist copyright law. (See the corporate espionage side quest on Noveria in ME1)
Arrival is also the final nail in the coffin after all the ways Mass Effect 2 fucks up the final conflict setup by the first game. After the base game does its best to take away resources from Shepard, introduce loose cannons and pointless enemies and does nothing to actually solve the ultimate problem, this DLC now (literally) pushes the clock to zero for Shepard and crew by having the Reapers already show up.
All this combines to make the job of the third game pretty much impossible, which is a big reason why it‘s such a mess.
The sedatives didn't wear off for no reason. Shepard's cybernetics make him or her extremely resistant to poisons. The gas was enough to put him under sure but he got better. Like with the bartender at omega.
That's fair, but the scene could've been done better. You just kinda go from the fight to instantly waking up, it's clear they mainly just wanted to lower the time until Arrival.
If Mass Relays were that simple to destroy, you'd think Batarian terrorists would have tried to do just that at some point. Or Cerberus for that matter, or Krogan rebels. Plus I'm sure the countless preceding cycles had terrorists too.
I think blowing up a mass relay is a far too heavy handed plot element to include without raising hundreds of questions. Plus the fact that seemingly no one has EVER tried it before, or tried again since is just contrived.
I do agree, at the very least it should be a lot more difficult to destroy them. I guess you could say if you're launching a meteor, might as well hit them directly vs waste it on the relay and cut yourself off from here as well, but still... NOBODY tried it?
I honestly love the screams when they fly off in the Zero-G segment, they feel like PS2 era death yells lol.
...that sounded way better in my head.
Always annoyed me that we can have the best thief in the galaxy and yet can’t bring her on the infiltration mission
Very good point.
Also annoying that an Infiltrator Shepard doesn't really get to play to their strengths much here either. Every Shepard has about the same survivability in the sneaky parts. And once the fighting actually starts, if you're not tanky enough (I play Insanity) you're hosed. (Insanity enemies just charge Kenson while aiming at you with little concern for their own survival and have laser accurate aim with hair triggers) Infiltrator's all about getting that alpha-strike in.
Edit: ambiguating gender
It has sort of nagged at me about what the Normandy was doing while Shepard was gone for TWO PLUS DAYS. And, now I have to wonder why it wasn’t programmed to drop after you finish the final mission. It definitely would have served as a better merge into ME3, and directly illustrating Shepard’s character and integrity for turning himself in directly after that incident. That and serving to let the players know that even though we hoped the threat HAD been stopped this time, Harbinger’s presence, communicating with Shepard let’s us know who we’re likely to be facing in any anticipated sequel. Probably reinforcing the likelihood of a sequel.
I'm not saying the Alpha Relay incident didn't happen, but 300000 Batarians? That sounds like a lot ...
7:40 my Shepard never missed an opportunity to kill some batarians so for me that wasn't an issue.
To be fair, the whole "Normandy just appears" is just a common problem in cutscenes in Mass Effect. The further you get through the series, the more the cutscenes just seem to ignore the established lore in the codex including space travel just being instantaneous. Like Mass Effect 1, after Ilos, the Normandy just crosses the entire galaxy in what, 30 minutes?
Its disappointing because I read all the codex stuff when I first playerd and was thoroughly engrossed then I watched cutscenes and all the space battles look like generic ship blob fight and none of the principles apply. It makes the world feel very disjointed.
All of the Codex stuff can still apply despite cutscenes and story. Oftentimes these things are just due to time or budget or because following the lore would make for a worse experience. Just shut off your brain and it works. It is what it is.
@@zafelrede4884 Then what's even the point of establishing rules in this universe if they never bother to follow them? The Codex actively encourages you to think about the rules of the Mass Effect universe, you can't just "shut your brain off" when every time you click on something the game encourages you to do the exact opposite by giving you another Codex entry about some random ass control panel on the Normandy
@@nagger8216 Because it’s fluff text, not the rulebook.
@@zafelrede4884 I don't think you understand what lore and worldbuilding are. Again, if Bioware didn't want people to think about it then why am I constantly getting Codex updates every time I touch a door?
@@nagger8216 the lead writer himself said that towards the end of development they were just cranking out Codex entries until they ran out of time. Story and gameplay comes first, lore comes later.
Oh hey, Pikmonwolf! It's been a minute. Well...never a bad time to listen to some Mass Effect content.
Editing is hard and takes awhile lmao
I just played this yesterday and I actually enjoyed it, but the helmets on the batarians bothered me to, I thought they were human mercenaries, wich would make even less sense.
I think the reason for your team not helping at all is because it was meant to be played after the suicide mission and because of where they actually placed it the game wouldnt know who lived and who died. The best way to resolve this is to make it a post game epilogue mission and throw a line in saying where some characters are or go the shadow broker route and make them silence but there. They could bust into the base and be what unlocks the forcefield.
"Don't ask questions. Just consume product and buy new product." There was definitely a snowballing effect to plotholes as the series progressed 🤔
I think she might have taken precautions at first but they didn’t work. Then she lifted those precautions to indoctrinate the whole team. If the object was out in the open the whole time indoctrination would have happened quicker. As in before the project was operational.
Played this DLC back before the legendary edition and found something interesting, if you go before you go get the Reaper IFF you can get a heavy weapons ammo upgrade and a possibility to get enough Paragon or Renegade points to defuse Jack and Miranda's argument.
I’m so here for that DLC ranking
I'm going to defend the Normandy hanging out by the relay: While its stealth systems are active it's pretty much undetectable. However doing stuff builds up heat, so if they are made being right by the mass relay means a quick jump.
Wasn't it said that the Normandy 2 doesn't have heat build-up?
@@prtfdc2 No, it just has a better heat-trapping system so it can be stealthed longer.
On top of this maybe they're pulling a Han Solo and hiding out on a nearby asteroid. The Batarians from the prison confirm that there's too many out there for them to search effectively without Kenson narrowing it down.
@@MagicSpud And on top of THAT there's only one real way in or out of that area: The Alpha Relay. The Normandy is going to have the drop on any ship trying to escape the system, so hanging out and waiting for Shepard's captors to show up is a smart idea to maximize use of their stealth systems
Also you'd think the batarians would have some sort of surveying station that could detect that a big fucking asteroid was on a collision course for a mass relay
Tbh, I always figured Kenson was still at the sane stage of indoctrination, kinda like the illusion man until late me3, and as soon as the wave hit shepherd, it pushed her over the edge. Even Saren could be reasoned with and he wanted to kill the council even before he was fully indoctrinated. The helmets were lazy, I never even noticed that but I can 100% agree wth your point here. Honestly, I think the laziest dlc was Javik in me3. That is 100% story important dlc, and they decided to launch the game wthout it and put a price tag on it. Also wouldn’t it make more sense to explode the relay once reapers reached that system so u could take a few out as soon as they arrived but before they could use the relay? Idk, that kinda seems like a strategically better idea if you are killing 300k possible allies just to delay.
“That’s for Mindoir.”
Arrival is objectively worse if played before the end mission because instead of seeing Harbinger in the end encounter you see the bug he was controlling that dies on the station at the end. Also, yes please, just make more videos, they are all always good 😃
thank you for your videos! I'm always looking forward to your new ones: the way you present the material is easy to catch and always interesting
I'm glad you enjoy them! And thank you, it's a lot of work, but definitely work it.
I absolutely love your Mass Effect videos. They are extremely well done and have opened my eyes to a lot of things in the trilogy. This one is no exception: even though I didn't like the DLC for the illusion of choice, I never considered all the plot holes mentioned. I'd be interested to see which DLCs you consider the best, and maybe a similar top-5 for the worst ones. Or just a ranking of all the trilogy DLCs in general.
Also, you can come up with some bullshit for the last plot hole about the Normandy not knowing where Shepard was (for example, TIM tracked them and told Joker to go near the asteroid just in case), but that would still be bullshit. You are definitely right to question that moment.
I always wondered throughout this entire DLC; *where was my squad?? My SHIP???* Shepard has been missing for DAYS and no one has heard from her. Why didn't anyone come and get her? And when you come back, no one says anything about it, no "Shepard, where were you? No one has been able to reach out to you in days, or even locate you."
I half expected a mini search team with 2 or 3 squadmates, with your romance option among them, trying to find and assist Shepard. Idk, Kasumi or Thane/Miranda for base game, along with your romantic partner, or Miranda and Jacob as default without paramour.
Jokes on you, that guy at the end of the dlc that said the Normandy was picking you up. He was the shuttle pilot who does the crazy maneuvers like dropping you off on the Shadow Brokers ship hull and getting the hell out of dodge.
Don't take this joke seriously.
Lmao, nah man that's canon now
I always thought she wasn't full indoctrinated yet but really did believe that they should side with the reapers
I actually never thought about about the Normandy.
It's okay, neither did the writers.
@@pikmonwolf I feel like this dlc was written by different people every cutscene.
I believe mass relay destruction caused an issue within the community on how it's possible and I want to explain the possibility of a mass relay destruction in this comment.
What are these mass relays? Mass relays are structures within the space that allows people to use it in FTL speed. - "The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the subatomic level."- This passage gives us a vague idea of what they are. As an engineering student the concept of their ability to lock the structure in a place subatomic level shows me that these structures are made from intelligent materials!
Intelligent materials are materials response in a way to us that can change their shape or form under stress or absorb impact to protect us from getting injured. So mass relays are made from intelligent materials that can response in a specific way to absorb the damage or even phase through from the object etc. Now, we manage to understand the main material of the mass relays but we still have to explain what is the glowing light inside of those rings.
The glowing light inside those rings are eezo or element zero. Element zero is a mineral in the ME universe used in various applications and one of them is mass effect fields. So we can assume that glowing light is creating mass effect field to allow FTL travel between systems.
In ME, FTL works with mass relays and mass relays are actually work in a way to increase the mass of the object in order to bend the space and time. These structures placed in certain systems or points in space as well the reason for that is actually tied to why the mass relay destruction is happening actually.
Under the knowledge of all the previous points we can assume the mass relay actually increases the mass of the approaching asteroid once it enters its mass effect field. Since there is no input information on destination the mass continues to increase and increase at some point the space-time erupts and the asteroid mass collapse on itself because of the increased mass from the mass relay. Asteroid explodes like a star and creates a supernova, the mass relay survives the supernova but the asteroid then turns into a black hole because of the increased mass and that black hole is the reason for that mass relay to get really destroyed.
May be it's something I've overlooked, but the biggest "wtf" for me was that the Reapers are coming at all through some previously unmentioned mass relay. Wasn't the Citadel the only mass relay that they can use to leave the dark space? And didn't Protheans trap them there by tampering with the signal through which Keepers can activate the relay, which is what Sovereign tried to undo?
They flew to the Galaxy directly they were going to travel through the galaxy via the Alpha relay, not arrive by it
I also find it a little weird that the Batarians didn't have people who watched the relay for a living and had no military presence to at least throw spitballs at it.
I absolutely definitely 100% KNOW I played Arrival and yet I don't remember ANY of this.
Yea I probably just ran through it hoping I'd get to decimate a few hundred thousand Batarians at the end...