I really enjoyed this analysis. I also found it to be very in line with both eastern philosophy and Jungian thought. I actually played this game during my own recovery from psychosis trauma and loss, and it was incredibly cathartic for me. The fact it can feel convoluted and messy really just added more resonance to me because life does feel like that sometimes. No matter how much we try to reduce things (to duality or non-dual) it is often still so complex and colourful.. I look forward to watching more of your stuff. That was a delight to listen to and watch.
@@thefluxparadox Wow! This comment means a lot, thanks for sharing your feedback and some of your own journey. I'll make sure to keep working hard because of those such as yourself who resonate with these types of videos.
Best video I’ve seen on the ending. Love how you incorporate a comprehensive understanding of the lore and include various sources to explain how everything ties together.
"Someone who is of Cetra heritage can give reprieve to someone who is not of the Planet." Perhaps this is what Gi Nattak meant when he said the Cetra are "not a tolerant people." The Gi want the release of death (to be accepted into the Lifestream), which is something the Cetra could do for them but choose not to. That's my theory, anyway. Maybe at the end of Part Three, when Sephiroth is defeated once and for all, Aerith will grant them their wish and do for the Gi what she did for Kadaj in Advent Children.
Thank you so much for the video. I loved your playthrough videos and your theorising, too. Sorry for getting too personal but I just feel your perception and way of thinking more relatable and similar to mine than most other content creators (even though I enjoy their work too). It is sometimes lonely to be a FF fan without feeling a connection to other fans. But I get less lonely every time I see your videos. You are so knowledgeable and I learn a lot. Your perception is so real and untainted by any preconceived notions or hasty conclusions. Amazing and comforting
@@motionista Wow what a sweet comment to wake up to 🥺 Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with me. I also don't feel like I always entirely jive with narratives/theories that may be popular, so that's one reason I had to get my thoughts out there. I'll continue to do my best to share more of my thoughts on here 😊
I spotted the Hinduism, Greek and Roman mythology, Japanese folklore and myth, Egyptian mythology and quantum theory in the game. All these subjects are linked way more than we know. Game is pretty intelligent in that regard
This is the most thoughtful take on this and it makes so much sense. The people crafting this story are creative and it seems more likely that they are pulling from much larger foundational concepts and not just "timeline shenanagins" Thank you for this insight
That "reprieve" for those that cannot return to the lifestream was alluded to in Dirge of Cerberus through Chaos, whose powers are imbued into a materia embedded within Vincent.
Wow, of all the explanations I’ve heard so far this one seems the most concrete. Can’t believe I never noticed the similarity between Zack and Tidus till now
Wow thank you so much! And with Zack and Tidus, I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't know about his statement since I think he only said this one time. The fact that he has Zack functioning as a Tidus-like being is kinda blowing my mind 😮
I’m really happy to see someone coming at this from a more thoughtful angle than superhero-pilled “multiverse” complaints and taking religious traditions into account. The lifestream concept was always spiritual. I know that David Lynch is also heavily influenced by Buddhist ideas and they play a big part in the “timeline” weirdness especially in Twin Peaks season 3
I went into a deep dive about this as well not long ago, and came mostly to the same conclusions as you explained here. Obviously I was extremely confused after experiencing the ending for the first time, but the more I saw and discussed theories with the vast FF7 community the more things clicked and started to make sense. All of a sudden I realized just how much I LOVE this ending. I love mysteries and narratives in stories that actually forces you to think and research in order to come to a satisfying conclusion. There's still some theorizing and "guessing" when it comes to the ending, and I don't think we will get a definitive answer anytime soon, but I'm completely fine with that. Afterall, this is the 2nd part of a trilogy, and we're not yet at the end. I understand if people find the ending lacking or overtly confusing but I personally love it. I believe strongly that SE somewhat "sacrificed" Aerith's iconic death scene here in part 2 in order to give us a bigger payoff in part 3, which would explain why Nomura shortly before release stated he was very nervous how fans would react to the ending in Rebirth.
I believe it was Nomura who said in some recently translated Ultimania quotes that they indeed wanted us to be confused by this ending, so we knew it was intential 100% to also reflect Cloud's mental state. I initially disliked Remake's ending when I first beat the game, too, but had a much better reaction after letting it settle in. Glad you and I were on the same wavelength!
@@tanagreeknose7376 Absolutely. I love how Cloud's mental state is portrayed in this game, especially towards the ending. It kept getting worse and worse throughout and it's displayed so perfectly. I remember feeling very uncomfortable by the way Cloud was acting especially in Temple of the Ancients. There were moments where he showed total and utter lack of regard for the party, and especially to Tifa when he literally shoves her to the side. I loved this, but at the same time it hurt to see "Cloud" treat her this way. I also love how Tifa's emotions and feelings at the end of the game are displayed. She doesn't say a SINGLE word to Cloud or the rest of the party but you can still easily tell just how devastated she is. Not only did she lose her new best friend, she's also realizing she's losing Cloud, the person she's loved ever since childhood, to his mental state. She's hopeless to help him, she keeps trying only for him to get worse and worse. Our girl Tifa will sure have her hands full fixing Cloud in part 3.
I think one reason too as to why they portrayed a rift with Cloud and Tifa so early on is because it's gonna hurt twice as much when he loses it at the Northern Crater and is comatose in Mideel. Plus, him going crazy and attacking her was a smart decision honestly as it a. Avoided the scene of him outright hitting Aerith at the Temple and b. Again really illustrates the rift between Cloud and Tifa quite well.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I'm so excited to see how they are going to handle Cloud's breakdown at the Northern Crater in part 3. Even in the OG it's heartbreaking to witness, and that is without voice acting or facial animations. It's one of my favorite parts of the OG. The way Cloud is pleading Tifa for reassurance that he is the same person that she grew up with, and how Tifa is at a loss for words and don't know what to do. Imagine seeing this with top tier voice acting and facial animations, my god. If SE nails this sequence, it's going to be gut wrenching and terribly sad in a really fantastic way. Almost all of the great story beats of the OG are still left, and if they are handled with as much care and love as the first two parts have been, part 3 will be the very definition of an emotional rollercoaster.
That smile on Cloud’s face when he starts seein Aerith again, aft her death, was c-r-e-e-p-y… unless they animated him real poor there. But I much doubt it. If not for understanding Cloud’s really sick in the head, he’d really deserv a hard knuckle on top of the noggin fer treating the girls like that. Most dispiriting to c Tifa hadta retreat back into her “snail shell” for Rebirth’s ending. But our heroine will definitely come back better & stronger for every1’s sake tis comin Part 3
I personally would have preferred a 100% faithful remake to the original. And even after enjoying Rebirth, I still would've preferred a faithful remake. I tire of complicated multiverse-esque stories. haha. That said, this in-depth interpretation of the ending helps me be more excited for the next game. It seems like, despite the convoluted nature of this Remake trilogy, they are at least making an attempt to make this trilogy as deep and meaningful as the original, if not even moreso. The implementation of Buddhism seems like its helping in that goal immensely.
I feel like they are trying to get the same message across albeit with a very different presentation. While the original game was more "grounded" in it's telling of events, I would be lying if I said I wasn't curious about what they are going to add next to deepen the lore. I wouldn't have minded a more 1 for 1 retelling, but now I can see how that would have been boring for them. Also, thank you for taking the time to watch!
finally the video i was looking for. i never agreed with people saying this is a marvel timelines thing after playing rebirth. also nojima gave a huge hint that buddhism is a hint for pt 3. i didnt understand how that would be connected but now with your video it makes me really excited for the reveals in the next game. great video!
I’m glad I’ve finally found someone who actually creates content reaching the same interpretation I have for the RE Trilogy expansion of the Lifestream concept as well as the ending. Not only that, but an actually very well put together and explained video! I might be biased, but incredible job! 👏 There are a few questions I’ve been pondering that I would love to get your (and anyone interested in sharing) opinion on: 1. What exactly is the Edge of Creation? A world/plane representing Cloud’s mind? The world created from Sephiroth’s dream/wish, somehow representing his end goal? Something else? 2. The black materia in Cloud’s pocket, do you think it’s the empty materia that somehow was powered by the negative feelings (fear, loss, hatred) that Cloud surpressed and the team felt during Aerith’s death? Or a different materia altogether? If so, how do you think he got hold of it? 3. The confluence of worlds. I was thinking on the idea that lifestream is powered by positivity and that dreams and wishes, which the lifestream manifests as Worlds, are part of that positive fuel. On that train of thought, maybe the confluence of worlds is actually causing negative feelings to an extent that fear, loss and hatred destroy/replace the wishes and dreams, hence confluencing all the worlds in a single, dreamless reality, hence the lifestream being weakened, and sephiroth taking over. What do you think? 4. I find it interesting that Zack is the one the game focuses on as the one creating multiple different Worlds with his choices, when in a way he is IMO the representation of unrelentless pursuit of dreams and wishes in the FF7 world. Do you think that Aerith (Advent Children Aerith) might have purposefully granted Zack’s conscience more time before dissolving because she trusted that part of him to be important to help the lifestream fight back? Or do you think it was purely the inner, unconscious wish of current time Aerith that affected the bullet? On another note: I know people don’t always want to be literal, but I feel the usage of words like “Timelines” and “Multiverse” creates an interpretation bias that IMO kind of detracts from trying to interpret the concepts and lore by what the game is actively trying to communicate to us. I think you kind of addressed this pretty elegantly when you spoke about the western/eastern way of conceptualising/interpreting these kinds of stories. 🙏
1. My first thought was that the Edge of Creation is analogous to the Darkness Beyond Time in Chrono Trigger, both are an infinite darkness beyond the edge of the world. 2. During the segment where Cloud finds the Black Materia in his pack you see him drop the empty Materia into it and hear it clink against another Materia, which Cloud also hears which is why he searches his pack and finds the Black Materia in it. So they’re two separate Materia and at some point the Black Materia got slipped into Cloud’s belongings. Or possibly it never truly left his inventory.
Thanks so much for putting this out there. As soon as I saw the clips of the new game and that Cosmo Canyon scene, I knew this was all Lifestream. Your vid rocks!
My one comment is everyone always makes up that Sephiroth holds onto his "hatred" of Cloud to stay whole in the lifestream. That is never once said in the novel in english or in Japanese. He makes Cloud the core of his memories. That's all he says. He doesn't attribute his hatred or love or any emotion just memories of Cloud. I think western audiences had to tag it as him "hating" Cloud to make themselves comfortable with his obsessive fixation on another man lol
In general, you can find a lot of clues in the random dialog. In remake they often talked about what either just happened or will happen. In rebirth, there's so much out there. An interesting thing to point out is in the world without hope, it is noteworthy that the Shinra building is on the same angle it was left in. I havent made it that far, but Nattak describes the ither world during a fight, a world where time stopped, the sky split, the seas dried up.
Definitely dying (hehe) to find out more about the world the Gi came from and what exactly their relationship to the Cetra was. We know what they told us and what the Cetra told us, but what is the objective truth? 🤭
Thanks for this, it really helped point me in a good direction in understanding what’s going on lol I figure the overall story won’t really change, it will just take into account any extended lore from the compilation. As of now, I honestly think we’ll see everyone reuniting in the Lifestream. Sidenote: I hope they put some kind of cope for Cloud and his mom. That would destroy me if I saw my mom die in front of me, and I think Cloud would need a moment to kinda pack that up.
@@tanagreeknose7376 okay, I swear I’m not going to make this a theory thread… but everyone keeps saying the space where Cloud and Zack/Aerith fight Sephiroth is like his mind or something… but if it’s actually his Lifestream. The one that flows through each living thing? Sephiroth has failed to be purged from it in two games… because Tifa hasn’t fought him off yet ( or maybe the whole party, but I got this feeling ) Anyways, I’m done. Great vid!
Thank you for the great video. I believe you mentioned at the end that the story in Advent Children will remain after the remake trilogy. In a sense, I believe Lifestream Aerith is trying to dissolve the regrets he had in the OG for not saving her by making him see that he can't be blame for her fate. If she cleanses him from doubt and from the hatred towards Sephiroth, the whole story around Geostigma might not happen. I do believe that Cloud created a world where Aerith lives, but this world is bound to die too. Aerith thanks him for what he did during the fight against Sephiroth. I don't know if Sephiroth is trying to confuse him to create more dissonance between him and the party. Is the ripple in the Rebirth timeline ending a sign that this world is marked for death or something else? Whose memory is this Rebirth timeline if it bound to disappear? So many philosophical questions. When something lives in your consciousness, it becomes a reality (saving Aerith, perhaps? ) I really enjoy this ending and it gives more depth to the meaning of very complex emotions (or the confluence of emotions, to quote Sephiroth). Sephiroth is playing with this complexity to assure his immortality. It is very deep to me.
For an ignoramus like me, who only caught a few fragmented bits in my own previously, can only summarise in a few understated words - “Lifestream is… complicated”😝 Hey, thank U for the great thesis work here, Tana! Quite enlightening
Lol, glad you enjoyed! I definitely had to take the ending in because it would have been impossible to analyze immedietely after having all of the crazy visuals flung in my face! Deep symbolism and metaphors yet insane visuals. That's how SE does it. 🤣
Great video and take on the ending! Man, i find it so interesting that theres so much room for interpretation when it comes to the ending of this game :D For example... i think that Aerith being alive to Cloud is just Sephiroth/Jenova messing with him to destroy his mind even more in the third part. I saw a short the other day where a fan pointed out that the scene you show at 20:55 min of Aerith turning her head and smiling looks very similar to Sephiroth during the burning of Nibelheim. Indicating that this could be in fact an illusion from Sephiroth. But i dont know, guess we just have to wait till part 3 comes out!
Aerith being a mental delusion of Cloud by the end is definitely a fair question to pose, but I also feel like it would take away from her farewell moment in the ending FMV where she essentially said "goodbye" to all of us and then "No Promises to Keep" kicks in. It was bittersweet, even though we'll see her again I'm sure helping Holy stop the Meteor with the rest of the spirits in the lifestream.
@@tanagreeknose7376 yea, im also certain that we will see her again! And i also think that youre right, it clearly would take away from her farewell moment. Also the fact that Nanaki could feel her presence in the FMV would speak for Aerith being the real Aerith. But thats what i mean, theres so much room for interpretation and i absolutely love that. We‘ll see what happens in part 3.
Very interesting. I've seen some writing about the influence of the Kabbalah in the original but not as much about Buddhism. I've also been thinking about the ending recently. In the moment, I didn't know what to think but the more time passes, the more I like it. I think OTWTAS; Lifestream Black and White gave some insight into Sephiroth's condition in the lifestream as well as Aerith's. It says the deceased in the FF7 universe give up their individuality and merge as one collective consciousness when they die but that Aerith won't merge until Sephiroth is no longer a threat. Sephiroth refuses to fade away and his plan leads to the events of AC. It seems the skeleton's the same to lead up to AC but now there are new variables, too. Aerith's lifestream existence at this point kinda reminds me of Priestess Midoriko in Inuyasha and the spiritual battle that goes on within the Shikon no Tama and the general Shinto influence in that.
Giving who developed this game, shinto is also something that I also thought with theories very similar to yours. I assume aerith and sephiroth are much like hare and kegare
Thank you! And oh trust me, people definitely do even if they've been respectful for the most part- there's always those backseat gamers or those already typing what they want me to anticipate in the chat. I just have to navigate not looking at it every 5 seconds and letting my boundaries be clear 😂
I really appreciated your angle in regards to this game. Great video. Just some ideas to chew on. Aerith admitted to Cloud (if you got the close-bond result) that she wanted to know the real Cloud. To me that meant that she's very much interested in Cloud and might be aware he is masking himself. She wants to know him truthfully so they might start off on the right foot if they were to pursue a relationship, that's my take. She still might have feelings for Zack but I can only judge from what we've seen from the FF7 R games and truly not much happened with those two in Rebirth. They did (I think) touch hands when the main group was exploring the Gi dungeon but that was it. A quick moment. Maybe in the 3rd game they'll explore their current relationship status. It might be better than before or have dwindled.. at this time no one knows the answer. Another point to mention is yes they vaguely said the story will 'link up' to Advent Children however I wonder how accurate that statement truly is. I heard that translations are tricky to get a 1 for 1 explanation. It could possibly have meant.. that Advent Children Sephiroth is in this game they just haven't revealed that detail yet I personally think it's in bad taste to introduce these whisper ghost beings, say to the player directly that the ending of FF7 (1997) is result if we fail today and tell us we've defeated fate for only the story to still be the exact same? Really? That would be so sad. I don't want that, my spouse said they didn't want that... I'm okay if Aerith died in the Beagle timeline but please do something new... Let us save her, let us create a new world for Aerith and let us have a happy ending that some Developers also mentioned they have in store for us.
On the question of fate: I remember something that Kitase said in an interview saying that a big theme of Rebirth was whether fate can truly be defied? Sure, you can try, as we all have free will, but just like Zack for example in the lifestream, his fate is always to die, even though he tries to escape it. I think that adding in the whispers adds to these themes of life in FF7, while obviously being very overt at the same time. They led players to believe that fate could be changed, even when ultimately, it could not. Aerith still dies, but I think that she does get her "happy ending" with Zack in the lifestream. We just never got shown how they reunited, which is a plotline that must get resolved in the final game, which will link to Advent Children. I also think that a true happy ending for Cloud and co. would be to show what happens long after Edge is built and Geostigma leaves the world for good (hopefully). I at least want to see Cloud and Tifa with more kids. Lol.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I'm glad I understand your prospective. I have no idea if Cloud will be with Tifa when the game comes to a close. Know that tons of folks like yourself adore that pairing so they could make it happen. The developers seem to be hinting that with how they handled the Gold Saucer date with those two...But .. they also said in another interview those dates aren't canon to the story so I'm very perplexed. Unfortunately I don't see much building romance-wise with Zack and Aerith. If we only examine FF7 Remake and FF7 Rebirth, Aerith and Zack haven't done much and that's a lot for the audience to accept if suddenly in the 3rd Final Fantasy 7 R game they're kissing. A good story needs to build these characters and make them believable as a couple and again I'm not trying to be cinical but I didn't see much flirting throughout FF7 Rebirth with Aerith and Zack. They could've had Aerith provide a monologue to Cloud, when Cloud asked how Aerith felt about talking about Zack. They also could have shown flashbacks to the two of them building the flower cart and she might've expressed how loved being by Zack side but they didn't. The most we got with those two was Zack being in a care-taker role to an not awake Aerith and them brushing fingers during the Gi story. If the player has Aerith during the loveless play, Cloud actually placed Aerith's yellow flower pedal to his chest... His heart. Then Zack at the end of the game, he too sees Aerith's yellow flower pedal but he doesn't do much with it, mostly just follows it. The developers might be hinting at that their relationship has changed. Again we don't know so we'd have to stay tuned. You did make a good observation about the happy ending , curing the Geostingma would also work for that.
@@tanagreeknose7376I would prefer solo Aerith since she is the counterpart to Sephiroth let her have her moment. Also edge of creation could be in Clouds mind like og last fight.
@@tanagreeknose7376 (´｡• ᵕ •｡`) ♡ You did a good job! Other people are using the Kabbalah or multiverse as a way to explain certain aspects of FF7 but no one really touches Buddhism or Shintoism. Good job Tana!(^▽^)👍
That was also my initial thought that sephiroths sword was piercing aerith as cloud was parryin it ' considering how bloody long it is 😂' also do u think Sin from ffx is linked to Weapons in some distant way in ffvii and also do u think theres gunna be more references or secret hints linking the two games in part 3 ?
The camera angle was strange, wasn't it? Afterwards, her positioning made it look like she somehow teleported out of the way LOL. I could see Cloud delusionally thinking that he blocked the sword, all the while it's still piercing her as her body is cut out of the frame. With the lifestream and the farplane already being linked together, I think there will always be something binding them. Maybe there will be another reference on ancient technology regarding the Highwind a la Dirge of Cerberus. As for Sin and the Weapons, I feel like there are a lot of parallels with it to Jenova, even if I like Jenova being it/her own thing.
@@tanagreeknose7376ye it's a touchy one linking the two games cause for me ffx is my favourite but I know a lot of people didn't like it compared to 'golden era' ff, or maybe just have an additional clip to Nanaki's post credit scene from OG when you hear the voices of children playing, a blitz ball rolls into frame along a beach 😂
my thing is why do a whole multiverse if the core story is just gonna stay the same? why hype the "defy fate" shtick if aerith is still gonna kick the bucket? i can accept aerith dying(though it was hard to) but my problem with this game is that they give you a false hope that you can change things and ultimately just playing with our emotions....hopefully all of this comes full circle in part 3 in a meaningful way, but as of right now the multiverse/worlds just seems pointless
The problem is ppl still think this is a multiverse. It's not. This isn't Marvel/DC. We're talking about a metaphysical/spiritual layer of FF7's reality that is tied to memories, dreams, death, and ultimately the Lifestream. It always goes back to the Lifestream. It is a collective unconscious that does not distinguish between real memories and fantasies. It can create temporary pocket worlds based on your memories and emotions (Aerith's dream date, OG Cloud's Lifestream scene), and, thanks to the "merging of worlds" Cloud is now stuck in between reality and a temporary Lifestream world where Aerith lived. Notice that only Cloud sees the cracked sky, the same cracked sky from the OG Lifestream sequence.
so that's why the story was confusing... in the original game, Buddhism was not that deep attached to the story. I'm Muslim, and we have our religion & believe. So, in the end the result I will pass part 3 of the game.😐✋️
When Cloud blocked Sephs sword he created a timeline where shes alive as we see with the rainbow effect. Hes between two timelines since he also can see the rift in the sky while the others cant
"What if spiritual energy doesn't distinguish between our real, lived memories and the unrealized desires buried deep in our hearts?" If Cloud is dead, it would explain a lot. Sephiroth traveling back in time and confronting him on the Midgar highway doesn't really make sense to me unless it's just Cloud's memories clashing with his unrealized desire to change fate. It seems to me that he's traveling through the Lifestream and attempting, but failing, to change fate. There is no multiverse, there are simply a multitude of worlds created by people's memories (primarily Cloud, Sephiroth and Aerith) which are all clashing with each other. Maybe this trilogy isn't about stopping Sephiroth's new plan to become a god, but about Cloud finding acceptance that he can't change Aerith's, Zack's or even his own death. Maybe it's about our acceptance as the player as well considering how many attempts and myths of bringing Aerith back to life were told for decades. I really do think we'll all find closure in the third installment.
No one mentions Crisis Core Reunion in these videos and the fact that Zack got several letters from Aerith as he was gone for 4/5 years. I agree with everything you said, as far as the hopes and dreams, and the lifestream manifesting characters in different planes. With that being said, these characters are very much alive. Aerith may be dead in one plane, but she is alive in another. Zack is alive as well. When Tifa ran in and saw cloud holding Aerith, Since she had been in the lifestream, what she was seeing was the plane where Aerith was dead with the blood on her hand and the plane where she was alive without the blood. She’s going to be the one who ultimately helps cloud come back to reality by putting the pieces together of what’s going on. Sephiroth’s ultimate goal is more than likely going to be that when he dies, the rest of the universes and the characters who are tied to them will also die. So the dilemma will be that in him going along with Aerith’s notion of there is no such thing as forever, Cloud will need to let her and Zack go by killing SephiRoth and essentially severing her and Zack’s physical connection to the world.
Given the nature of the game and the way the devs said that the dead characters are staying dead, I personally don't see how Zack and Aerith could be alive in any corporeal sense beyond what they are in the lifestream planes. The way they interact with Cloud after the Aerith death scene is similar to the way they interact with Cloud in the white space in Advent Children.
@@tanagreeknose7376Yes, there is white space in advent children, but in these games, The Avalanche crew beat fate. Cloud beat fate again when he stopped Sephiroth’s sword. “No promises await at journey’s end”. There are now multiple realities the Lifestream has manifested into the physical plane. Zack and Aerith are alive in them. Or else the effort at the end of the first game was a waste.
Cope. Its all set up for Cloud to be reunited with Aerith. Especially when he created a timeline where she survives. Also how does crisis core correlate
@@johnpettiford6547 The whole point was that you can't truly beat fate though as Aerith still dies. Zack and Aerith are clearly not alive at all in the physical plane. Not sure how the effort at the end of the first game was a waste. This is all leading to Advent Children so no one is getting revived.
You definitely put a lot of thought into Final Fantasy and Eastern religion. Being a follower of Judeo Christianity, a lot of that stuff is over my head. But, I'm not one to argue a thought out theological theory of what the ending is supposed to mean. Obviously, the idea of dying only to enter a spiritual plain of existence where your thoughts and dreams still exist is rather foreign to a Western society based on Judeo Christian beliefs. So, it's hard for us to wrap our heads around that idea. Instead, I have a link to a video by Soldier_1stClass who goes into reviewing a transcript of FF7 Rebirth Ultimania, specifically about multiple timelines / worlds and Aerith's fate: th-cam.com/video/44gnHSvgybs/w-d-xo.html Again, this is not mean to argue who is more right. Just thought I'd pass along official information.
"Minor tweaks and changes" like literal war with between Shinra and Wutai... it's not a bad theory, but being influenced and being completely developed in are two different things. We technically aren't even playing as the original party anyway. Also didn't Tidus comeback at the end of X-2?
Coincidentally, Nojima did say in the new Ultimania that his writing was partly inspired by Buddhism, so at least there's that. And what do you mean by not playing as the original party? Is it because Cid and Vincent were non-playable in Rebirth? They're just using them as a hook for the third game is all.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I 100% agree that it's the inspiration. I just believe there is a little bit more to it than that. We already have a few key differences between the OG and Remake that would dramatically change the landscape and make AC not line up. Such as the white materia needing to be transfered from 1 plain to another. (Not in OG) If Aerith knew her fate, why did she confess to Cloud that she loved him, before shoving him away and dying? That's extremely out of character and something she has been trying to hide the entire game. (Even in chapter 14 Remake dream sequence) Because she knows that would cause further damage to him. (Not in OG) The fabricated war between Wutai and Shinra caused by Sephiroth. (Not in OG) If Cloud learns to accept that Aerith from the Beagle timeline is dead, the plot of AC is already dead on arrival. I have more, but there is WAY to many differences here and I fully believe that's what the devs intended and we are in for a crazy part 3. P.S. Cloud being able to shift consciousness when sleeping before her death and see her in Terrior world. I don't think Sephiroth or Aerith knows he can do that and is threading the line. This will probably effect part 3 greatly.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Also one last thing, promise. Buddhism does not believe in pre determined fate, but the guidance of Karma. Good bequeaths good, and bad bequeaths bad. So I say that nothing is off the table just yet.
I didn't like the ending too much cause I wanted so bad for things to turn out different and Aerith actually getting saved this time at the end. I thought she was too when Cloud blocked Sephiroth coming down on her, but then it shows that she got stabbed after all and that's not fair at all. Still the fact remains that this is now another alternate world thing and she might still be alive there and Zack too and if the worlds merge somehow they'll all see each other again in part 3 hopefully.
Well, they are still dead.. but will no doubt reunite as Zack hinted, since the lifestream is a world of convergence and divergence. Zack and Aerith need their closure.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Closure? I want them to reunite ALIVE! As I said the worlds might merge together into one somehow and they'll ALL be reunited in part 3.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I swear those people at Square-Enix better be making part 3 so something truly DOES happen differently that'll bring them both back alive from those alternate worlds!
No Aerith didn't believe she was fated to die. Cloud said the same thing in OG, and Tifa said it wasn't true. No Aerith isn't mourning Zack. Just like Cissnei doesn't feel like he's gone. Just like Cloud doesn't feel like Aerith is gone. No Aerith didn't die. Cloud blocked Seph, having been cured (via Zack) enough to 1) remember Zack and 2) move freely. That's why Seph said he underestimated her. The reason why we see the OG death scenes, is because Seph sent everyone (but Aerith) to OG. OG's temple is in the Southeast, while Rebirth's temple is in the North. Seph said the true black materia is in "the world between worlds", meaning OG world, which is why everyone is now there with the key. Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive." Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial." Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..." Cait Sith: "I don't know if Sephiroth is dead, alive, or something in between, but I intend to find out." See those RABBIT portraits in every inn? See those DAISIES in Aerith's inn room, next to her REUNION flowers? DOOMGUY. IS. COMING.
If Aerith and Zack are both permanently dead and can't come back, I as well as many other fans are going to be pissed. After all, what is the whole point of the multiverse/multi timeline inclusions in these "remakes"? Why was Barrett killed then allowed to be immediately resurrected? The developers need consistency
Barret wasn't killed though, he was gravely injured and the whispers heald him up, this was confirmed by Toriyama. Both Aerith & Zack are in the lifestream and have died in the real world, this has been made clear. This is NOT a multiverse.
@@leviticus6105 The dogs are visual aids to show the different worlds that exist WITHIN the lifestream. It has no relevance to someone being alive or not.
@@leviticus6105 Sephiroth never mentioned multiverse, hell no one in the game or at Sqaure has used that word. What Sephiroth said to Cloud after the dream date is that the planet encompasses a multitude of worlds. These are within the lifestream. This is why in Chapter 10 when Aerith had her hand in the lifestream, she could feel Zack touching her hand in the other world.
I really enjoyed this analysis. I also found it to be very in line with both eastern philosophy and Jungian thought.
I actually played this game during my own recovery from psychosis trauma and loss, and it was incredibly cathartic for me. The fact it can feel convoluted and messy really just added more resonance to me because life does feel like that sometimes. No matter how much we try to reduce things (to duality or non-dual) it is often still so complex and colourful..
I look forward to watching more of your stuff. That was a delight to listen to and watch.
@@thefluxparadox Wow! This comment means a lot, thanks for sharing your feedback and some of your own journey. I'll make sure to keep working hard because of those such as yourself who resonate with these types of videos.
Best video I’ve seen on the ending. Love how you incorporate a comprehensive understanding of the lore and include various sources to explain how everything ties together.
It's an honor you say that! Mr. Nojima has definitely weaved together something interesting, aided by the crazy visuals of SE 😂
"Someone who is of Cetra heritage can give reprieve to someone who is not of the Planet."
Perhaps this is what Gi Nattak meant when he said the Cetra are "not a tolerant people." The Gi want the release of death (to be accepted into the Lifestream), which is something the Cetra could do for them but choose not to. That's my theory, anyway. Maybe at the end of Part Three, when Sephiroth is defeated once and for all, Aerith will grant them their wish and do for the Gi what she did for Kadaj in Advent Children.
Thank you so much for the video. I loved your playthrough videos and your theorising, too. Sorry for getting too personal but I just feel your perception and way of thinking more relatable and similar to mine than most other content creators (even though I enjoy their work too). It is sometimes lonely to be a FF fan without feeling a connection to other fans. But I get less lonely every time I see your videos. You are so knowledgeable and I learn a lot. Your perception is so real and untainted by any preconceived notions or hasty conclusions. Amazing and comforting
@@motionista Wow what a sweet comment to wake up to 🥺 Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with me. I also don't feel like I always entirely jive with narratives/theories that may be popular, so that's one reason I had to get my thoughts out there. I'll continue to do my best to share more of my thoughts on here 😊
I spotted the Hinduism, Greek and Roman mythology, Japanese folklore and myth, Egyptian mythology and quantum theory in the game. All these subjects are linked way more than we know. Game is pretty intelligent in that regard
There are so many influences from different faiths/cultures. Another reason to love the game!
Now I want someone to finally link this to the Sefirot concepts that I swear were more obvious than the other stuff, but also barely discussed
Fantastic analysis! Thank you for the video, can't wait for Part 3 to answer them. It's going to be a long wait :')
Such a cool video! I love to see all kinds of takes on the the ending and this one is so cool and interesting 👏👏👏
So glad you enjoyed!
This is the most thoughtful take on this and it makes so much sense. The people crafting this story are creative and it seems more likely that they are pulling from much larger foundational concepts and not just "timeline shenanagins"
Thank you for this insight
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to watch! ❤
That "reprieve" for those that cannot return to the lifestream was alluded to in Dirge of Cerberus through Chaos, whose powers are imbued into a materia embedded within Vincent.
@@Hushoo Ooh, nice catch!
YES! Thank you! That's definitely the best interpretation of the FF7R story I've ever seen!
Aw I'm glad you think so!
Best analysis on Rebirth. Thank you so much!
@@Francita__C Well, aren't you kind. Thank you!
Wow, of all the explanations I’ve heard so far this one seems the most concrete. Can’t believe I never noticed the similarity between Zack and Tidus till now
Wow thank you so much! And with Zack and Tidus, I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't know about his statement since I think he only said this one time. The fact that he has Zack functioning as a Tidus-like being is kinda blowing my mind 😮
I’m really happy to see someone coming at this from a more thoughtful angle than superhero-pilled “multiverse” complaints and taking religious traditions into account. The lifestream concept was always spiritual. I know that David Lynch is also heavily influenced by Buddhist ideas and they play a big part in the “timeline” weirdness especially in Twin Peaks season 3
Interesting that you brought up Twin Peaks. I didn't know that about it, given the fact that I have a friend who's really into it. And thank you!
@@tanagreeknose7376 you gotta get through most of it to get to the stuff I’m talking about but it’s sweet
Makes so much sense now. Thank you!
Zack and Aerith are either dead or alive, jst like what she said here, their souls are stucked between physical world and the lifestream
Fantastic analysis that came out of nowhere. Consider me subscribed.
Oof! It's an honor.
I went into a deep dive about this as well not long ago, and came mostly to the same conclusions as you explained here. Obviously I was extremely confused after experiencing the ending for the first time, but the more I saw and discussed theories with the vast FF7 community the more things clicked and started to make sense. All of a sudden I realized just how much I LOVE this ending. I love mysteries and narratives in stories that actually forces you to think and research in order to come to a satisfying conclusion.
There's still some theorizing and "guessing" when it comes to the ending, and I don't think we will get a definitive answer anytime soon, but I'm completely fine with that. Afterall, this is the 2nd part of a trilogy, and we're not yet at the end. I understand if people find the ending lacking or overtly confusing but I personally love it. I believe strongly that SE somewhat "sacrificed" Aerith's iconic death scene here in part 2 in order to give us a bigger payoff in part 3, which would explain why Nomura shortly before release stated he was very nervous how fans would react to the ending in Rebirth.
I believe it was Nomura who said in some recently translated Ultimania quotes that they indeed wanted us to be confused by this ending, so we knew it was intential 100% to also reflect Cloud's mental state. I initially disliked Remake's ending when I first beat the game, too, but had a much better reaction after letting it settle in. Glad you and I were on the same wavelength!
@@tanagreeknose7376 Absolutely. I love how Cloud's mental state is portrayed in this game, especially towards the ending. It kept getting worse and worse throughout and it's displayed so perfectly. I remember feeling very uncomfortable by the way Cloud was acting especially in Temple of the Ancients. There were moments where he showed total and utter lack of regard for the party, and especially to Tifa when he literally shoves her to the side. I loved this, but at the same time it hurt to see "Cloud" treat her this way.
I also love how Tifa's emotions and feelings at the end of the game are displayed. She doesn't say a SINGLE word to Cloud or the rest of the party but you can still easily tell just how devastated she is. Not only did she lose her new best friend, she's also realizing she's losing Cloud, the person she's loved ever since childhood, to his mental state. She's hopeless to help him, she keeps trying only for him to get worse and worse. Our girl Tifa will sure have her hands full fixing Cloud in part 3.
I think one reason too as to why they portrayed a rift with Cloud and Tifa so early on is because it's gonna hurt twice as much when he loses it at the Northern Crater and is comatose in Mideel. Plus, him going crazy and attacking her was a smart decision honestly as it a. Avoided the scene of him outright hitting Aerith at the Temple and b. Again really illustrates the rift between Cloud and Tifa quite well.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I'm so excited to see how they are going to handle Cloud's breakdown at the Northern Crater in part 3. Even in the OG it's heartbreaking to witness, and that is without voice acting or facial animations. It's one of my favorite parts of the OG. The way Cloud is pleading Tifa for reassurance that he is the same person that she grew up with, and how Tifa is at a loss for words and don't know what to do.
Imagine seeing this with top tier voice acting and facial animations, my god. If SE nails this sequence, it's going to be gut wrenching and terribly sad in a really fantastic way. Almost all of the great story beats of the OG are still left, and if they are handled with as much care and love as the first two parts have been, part 3 will be the very definition of an emotional rollercoaster.
That smile on Cloud’s face when he starts seein Aerith again, aft her death, was c-r-e-e-p-y… unless they animated him real poor there. But I much doubt it.
If not for understanding Cloud’s really sick in the head, he’d really deserv a hard knuckle on top of the noggin fer treating the girls like that.
Most dispiriting to c Tifa hadta retreat back into her “snail shell” for Rebirth’s ending. But our heroine will definitely come back better & stronger for every1’s sake tis comin Part 3
I personally would have preferred a 100% faithful remake to the original. And even after enjoying Rebirth, I still would've preferred a faithful remake. I tire of complicated multiverse-esque stories. haha. That said, this in-depth interpretation of the ending helps me be more excited for the next game.
It seems like, despite the convoluted nature of this Remake trilogy, they are at least making an attempt to make this trilogy as deep and meaningful as the original, if not even moreso. The implementation of Buddhism seems like its helping in that goal immensely.
I feel like they are trying to get the same message across albeit with a very different presentation. While the original game was more "grounded" in it's telling of events, I would be lying if I said I wasn't curious about what they are going to add next to deepen the lore. I wouldn't have minded a more 1 for 1 retelling, but now I can see how that would have been boring for them. Also, thank you for taking the time to watch!
finally the video i was looking for. i never agreed with people saying this is a marvel timelines thing after playing rebirth. also nojima gave a huge hint that buddhism is a hint for pt 3. i didnt understand how that would be connected but now with your video it makes me really excited for the reveals in the next game. great video!
Perhaps Black Myth Wukong, which is coming out this year might dwell on those concepts even further. Interesting take on the ending of FF7 Rebirth
I’m glad I’ve finally found someone who actually creates content reaching the same interpretation I have for the RE Trilogy expansion of the Lifestream concept as well as the ending. Not only that, but an actually very well put together and explained video! I might be biased, but incredible job! 👏
There are a few questions I’ve been pondering that I would love to get your (and anyone interested in sharing) opinion on:
1. What exactly is the Edge of Creation? A world/plane representing Cloud’s mind? The world created from Sephiroth’s dream/wish, somehow representing his end goal? Something else?
2. The black materia in Cloud’s pocket, do you think it’s the empty materia that somehow was powered by the negative feelings (fear, loss, hatred) that Cloud surpressed and the team felt during Aerith’s death? Or a different materia altogether? If so, how do you think he got hold of it?
3. The confluence of worlds. I was thinking on the idea that lifestream is powered by positivity and that dreams and wishes, which the lifestream manifests as Worlds, are part of that positive fuel. On that train of thought, maybe the confluence of worlds is actually causing negative feelings to an extent that fear, loss and hatred destroy/replace the wishes and dreams, hence confluencing all the worlds in a single, dreamless reality, hence the lifestream being weakened, and sephiroth taking over. What do you think?
4. I find it interesting that Zack is the one the game focuses on as the one creating multiple different Worlds with his choices, when in a way he is IMO the representation of unrelentless pursuit of dreams and wishes in the FF7 world. Do you think that Aerith (Advent Children Aerith) might have purposefully granted Zack’s conscience more time before dissolving because she trusted that part of him to be important to help the lifestream fight back? Or do you think it was purely the inner, unconscious wish of current time Aerith that affected the bullet?
On another note: I know people don’t always want to be literal, but I feel the usage of words like “Timelines” and “Multiverse” creates an interpretation bias that IMO kind of detracts from trying to interpret the concepts and lore by what the game is actively trying to communicate to us. I think you kind of addressed this pretty elegantly when you spoke about the western/eastern way of conceptualising/interpreting these kinds of stories. 🙏
1. My first thought was that the Edge of Creation is analogous to the Darkness Beyond Time in Chrono Trigger, both are an infinite darkness beyond the edge of the world.
2. During the segment where Cloud finds the Black Materia in his pack you see him drop the empty Materia into it and hear it clink against another Materia, which Cloud also hears which is why he searches his pack and finds the Black Materia in it. So they’re two separate Materia and at some point the Black Materia got slipped into Cloud’s belongings. Or possibly it never truly left his inventory.
I love all this and all the information that you give. Thank you!
Incontestablement la meilleure video sur la fin de FF7 Rebirth ! Not parallel worlds, but dream worlds. It makes so much more sense.
Thanks so much for putting this out there. As soon as I saw the clips of the new game and that Cosmo Canyon scene, I knew this was all Lifestream. Your vid rocks!
I like the video so far! Ill finish it later. Good job
Yay lemme know what you think!
The real Sepjirot died in CC, Remake and Rebirth Sephirot is Jenova in disguise
My one comment is everyone always makes up that Sephiroth holds onto his "hatred" of Cloud to stay whole in the lifestream. That is never once said in the novel in english or in Japanese. He makes Cloud the core of his memories. That's all he says. He doesn't attribute his hatred or love or any emotion just memories of Cloud. I think western audiences had to tag it as him "hating" Cloud to make themselves comfortable with his obsessive fixation on another man lol
In general, you can find a lot of clues in the random dialog. In remake they often talked about what either just happened or will happen. In rebirth, there's so much out there.
An interesting thing to point out is in the world without hope, it is noteworthy that the Shinra building is on the same angle it was left in.
I havent made it that far, but Nattak describes the ither world during a fight, a world where time stopped, the sky split, the seas dried up.
Definitely dying (hehe) to find out more about the world the Gi came from and what exactly their relationship to the Cetra was. We know what they told us and what the Cetra told us, but what is the objective truth? 🤭
Thanks for this, it really helped point me in a good direction in understanding what’s going on lol
I figure the overall story won’t really change, it will just take into account any extended lore from the compilation.
As of now, I honestly think we’ll see everyone reuniting in the Lifestream.
Sidenote: I hope they put some kind of cope for Cloud and his mom. That would destroy me if I saw my mom die in front of me, and I think Cloud would need a moment to kinda pack that up.
Having an added scene about Claudia would be quite amazing! Maybe we'll see it in the lifestream sequence where Tifa repairs his psyche.
@@tanagreeknose7376 okay, I swear I’m not going to make this a theory thread… but everyone keeps saying the space where Cloud and Zack/Aerith fight Sephiroth is like his mind or something… but if it’s actually his Lifestream. The one that flows through each living thing?
Sephiroth has failed to be purged from it in two games… because Tifa hasn’t fought him off yet ( or maybe the whole party, but I got this feeling )
Anyways, I’m done. Great vid!
@@Nexuish Cloud and Sephiroth seem to be in an endless loop. lol
Thank you for the great video. I believe you mentioned at the end that the story in Advent Children will remain after the remake trilogy. In a sense, I believe Lifestream Aerith is trying to dissolve the regrets he had in the OG for not saving her by making him see that he can't be blame for her fate. If she cleanses him from doubt and from the hatred towards Sephiroth, the whole story around Geostigma might not happen.
I do believe that Cloud created a world where Aerith lives, but this world is bound to die too. Aerith thanks him for what he did during the fight against Sephiroth. I don't know if Sephiroth is trying to confuse him to create more dissonance between him and the party. Is the ripple in the Rebirth timeline ending a sign that this world is marked for death or something else?
Whose memory is this Rebirth timeline if it bound to disappear?
So many philosophical questions. When something lives in your consciousness, it becomes a reality (saving Aerith, perhaps? )
I really enjoy this ending and it gives more depth to the meaning of very complex emotions (or the confluence of emotions, to quote Sephiroth). Sephiroth is playing with this complexity to assure his immortality. It is very deep to me.
For an ignoramus like me, who only caught a few fragmented bits in my own previously, can only summarise in a few understated words - “Lifestream is… complicated”😝
Hey, thank U for the great thesis work here, Tana! Quite enlightening
Lol, glad you enjoyed! I definitely had to take the ending in because it would have been impossible to analyze immedietely after having all of the crazy visuals flung in my face! Deep symbolism and metaphors yet insane visuals. That's how SE does it. 🤣
Great video and take on the ending! Man, i find it so interesting that theres so much room for interpretation when it comes to the ending of this game :D For example... i think that Aerith being alive to Cloud is just Sephiroth/Jenova messing with him to destroy his mind even more in the third part. I saw a short the other day where a fan pointed out that the scene you show at 20:55 min of Aerith turning her head and smiling looks very similar to Sephiroth during the burning of Nibelheim. Indicating that this could be in fact an illusion from Sephiroth. But i dont know, guess we just have to wait till part 3 comes out!
Aerith being a mental delusion of Cloud by the end is definitely a fair question to pose, but I also feel like it would take away from her farewell moment in the ending FMV where she essentially said "goodbye" to all of us and then "No Promises to Keep" kicks in. It was bittersweet, even though we'll see her again I'm sure helping Holy stop the Meteor with the rest of the spirits in the lifestream.
@@tanagreeknose7376 yea, im also certain that we will see her again! And i also think that youre right, it clearly would take away from her farewell moment. Also the fact that Nanaki could feel her presence in the FMV would speak for Aerith being the real Aerith.
But thats what i mean, theres so much room for interpretation and i absolutely love that. We‘ll see what happens in part 3.
Looks like people are catching up after all these years. Will need to finally make that video
Thank you for your valuable insights
Thank YOU for finding value in this content ❤
Great incites and video, thank you.
Very interesting. I've seen some writing about the influence of the Kabbalah in the original but not as much about Buddhism. I've also been thinking about the ending recently. In the moment, I didn't know what to think but the more time passes, the more I like it.
I think OTWTAS; Lifestream Black and White gave some insight into Sephiroth's condition in the lifestream as well as Aerith's. It says the deceased in the FF7 universe give up their individuality and merge as one collective consciousness when they die but that Aerith won't merge until Sephiroth is no longer a threat. Sephiroth refuses to fade away and his plan leads to the events of AC. It seems the skeleton's the same to lead up to AC but now there are new variables, too. Aerith's lifestream existence at this point kinda reminds me of Priestess Midoriko in Inuyasha and the spiritual battle that goes on within the Shikon no Tama and the general Shinto influence in that.
You gained a new subscriber
Solid arguments for Aerith being a Spiritual being in the ending.
This is the best video I've seen that explains the ending of Rebirth. Thank you.
I'm honored! Thank you so much.
Giving who developed this game, shinto is also something that I also thought with theories very similar to yours. I assume aerith and sephiroth are much like hare and kegare
I need to delve into it more myself!
Love this vid! When you stream play something like this though are you not worried about someone typing a spoiler for you in the chat?
Thank you! And oh trust me, people definitely do even if they've been respectful for the most part- there's always those backseat gamers or those already typing what they want me to anticipate in the chat. I just have to navigate not looking at it every 5 seconds and letting my boundaries be clear 😂
@Akihiko1349 I don't think you did it intentionally! But there are some people who live to troll lol
"Yup, sounds good." Ah...headache🙋♂...I see dead people.
😂
I really appreciated your angle in regards to this game. Great video.
Just some ideas to chew on. Aerith admitted to Cloud (if you got the close-bond result) that she wanted to know the real Cloud. To me that meant that she's very much interested in Cloud and might be aware he is masking himself. She wants to know him truthfully so they might start off on the right foot if they were to pursue a relationship, that's my take.
She still might have feelings for Zack but I can only judge from what we've seen from the FF7 R games and truly not much happened with those two in Rebirth. They did (I think) touch hands when the main group was exploring the Gi dungeon but that was it. A quick moment.
Maybe in the 3rd game they'll explore their current relationship status. It might be better than before or have dwindled.. at this time no one knows the answer.
Another point to mention is yes they vaguely said the story will 'link up' to Advent Children however I wonder how accurate that statement truly is. I heard that translations are tricky to get a 1 for 1 explanation. It could possibly have meant.. that Advent Children Sephiroth is in this game they just haven't revealed that detail yet
I personally think it's in bad taste to introduce these whisper ghost beings, say to the player directly that the ending of FF7 (1997) is result if we fail today and tell us we've defeated fate for only the story to still be the exact same? Really? That would be so sad. I don't want that, my spouse said they didn't want that... I'm okay if Aerith died in the Beagle timeline but please do something new... Let us save her, let us create a new world for Aerith and let us have a happy ending that some Developers also mentioned they have in store for us.
On the question of fate: I remember something that Kitase said in an interview saying that a big theme of Rebirth was whether fate can truly be defied? Sure, you can try, as we all have free will, but just like Zack for example in the lifestream, his fate is always to die, even though he tries to escape it.
I think that adding in the whispers adds to these themes of life in FF7, while obviously being very overt at the same time. They led players to believe that fate could be changed, even when ultimately, it could not. Aerith still dies, but I think that she does get her "happy ending" with Zack in the lifestream. We just never got shown how they reunited, which is a plotline that must get resolved in the final game, which will link to Advent Children.
I also think that a true happy ending for Cloud and co. would be to show what happens long after Edge is built and Geostigma leaves the world for good (hopefully). I at least want to see Cloud and Tifa with more kids. Lol.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I'm glad I understand your prospective.
I have no idea if Cloud will be with Tifa when the game comes to a close. Know that tons of folks like yourself adore that pairing so they could make it happen. The developers seem to be hinting that with how they handled the Gold Saucer date with those two...But .. they also said in another interview those dates aren't canon to the story so I'm very perplexed.
Unfortunately I don't see much building romance-wise with Zack and Aerith.
If we only examine FF7 Remake and FF7 Rebirth, Aerith and Zack haven't done much and that's a lot for the audience to accept if suddenly in the 3rd Final Fantasy 7 R game they're kissing.
A good story needs to build these characters and make them believable as a couple and again I'm not trying to be cinical but I didn't see much flirting throughout FF7 Rebirth with Aerith and Zack. They could've had Aerith provide a monologue to Cloud, when Cloud asked how Aerith felt about talking about Zack. They also could have shown flashbacks to the two of them building the flower cart and she might've expressed how loved being by Zack side but they didn't. The most we got with those two was Zack being in a care-taker role to an not awake Aerith and them brushing fingers during the Gi story.
If the player has Aerith during the loveless play, Cloud actually placed Aerith's yellow flower pedal to his chest... His heart. Then Zack at the end of the game, he too sees Aerith's yellow flower pedal but he doesn't do much with it, mostly just follows it.
The developers might be hinting at that their relationship has changed. Again we don't know so we'd have to stay tuned.
You did make a good observation about the happy ending , curing the Geostingma would also work for that.
I just want aerith and zak in the same party on the next game
I think that they will have their own face-off with Sephiroth in the lifestream.
@@tanagreeknose7376I would prefer solo Aerith since she is the counterpart to Sephiroth let her have her moment.
Also edge of creation could be in Clouds mind like og last fight.
@@wmen48 Well, as we've seen.. kinda hard for Aerith to solo Sephiroth. 😅
@@tanagreeknose7376 HAHA
great job
Thank you. ❤
Amazing game one heck of an experience 👏
Another great video from you Tana! o(≧∇≦o)
Oh my gosh! So glad you enjoyed it! I hope I could convey how Buddhism and FFX influenced a lot of concepts in this world.
@@tanagreeknose7376 (´｡• ᵕ •｡`) ♡ You did a good job! Other people are using the Kabbalah or multiverse as a way to explain certain aspects of FF7 but no one really touches Buddhism or Shintoism. Good job Tana!(^▽^)👍
That was also my initial thought that sephiroths sword was piercing aerith as cloud was parryin it ' considering how bloody long it is 😂' also do u think Sin from ffx is linked to Weapons in some distant way in ffvii and also do u think theres gunna be more references or secret hints linking the two games in part 3 ?
The camera angle was strange, wasn't it? Afterwards, her positioning made it look like she somehow teleported out of the way LOL. I could see Cloud delusionally thinking that he blocked the sword, all the while it's still piercing her as her body is cut out of the frame.
With the lifestream and the farplane already being linked together, I think there will always be something binding them. Maybe there will be another reference on ancient technology regarding the Highwind a la Dirge of Cerberus. As for Sin and the Weapons, I feel like there are a lot of parallels with it to Jenova, even if I like Jenova being it/her own thing.
@@tanagreeknose7376ye it's a touchy one linking the two games cause for me ffx is my favourite but I know a lot of people didn't like it compared to 'golden era' ff, or maybe just have an additional clip to Nanaki's post credit scene from OG when you hear the voices of children playing, a blitz ball rolls into frame along a beach 😂
@@RobPenn-l1z FFX is phenomenal. Easily in my top 5, vying for 2nd or 3rd place usually.
@@tanagreeknose7376 ye 10, 9 and 7 all ss+ tier for me but love entire franchise, no other game franchise has quite the same heart and atmosphere
my thing is why do a whole multiverse if the core story is just gonna stay the same? why hype the "defy fate" shtick if aerith is still gonna kick the bucket? i can accept aerith dying(though it was hard to) but my problem with this game is that they give you a false hope that you can change things and ultimately just playing with our emotions....hopefully all of this comes full circle in part 3 in a meaningful way, but as of right now the multiverse/worlds just seems pointless
The problem is ppl still think this is a multiverse. It's not. This isn't Marvel/DC. We're talking about a metaphysical/spiritual layer of FF7's reality that is tied to memories, dreams, death, and ultimately the Lifestream. It always goes back to the Lifestream. It is a collective unconscious that does not distinguish between real memories and fantasies. It can create temporary pocket worlds based on your memories and emotions (Aerith's dream date, OG Cloud's Lifestream scene), and, thanks to the "merging of worlds" Cloud is now stuck in between reality and a temporary Lifestream world where Aerith lived. Notice that only Cloud sees the cracked sky, the same cracked sky from the OG Lifestream sequence.
@@jthecryptid This is a great explanation of it!
so that's why the story was confusing... in the original game, Buddhism was not that deep attached to the story. I'm Muslim, and we have our religion & believe. So, in the end the result I will pass part 3 of the game.😐✋️
@@alirelax8761 But it was. It always was. Sakaguchi was inspired to add the theme of life in even more when his mother died. Hence, Aerith's death.
When Cloud blocked Sephs sword he created a timeline where shes alive as we see with the rainbow effect. Hes between two timelines since he also can see the rift in the sky while the others cant
I completely agree
"What if spiritual energy doesn't distinguish between our real, lived memories and the unrealized desires buried deep in our hearts?"
If Cloud is dead, it would explain a lot. Sephiroth traveling back in time and confronting him on the Midgar highway doesn't really make sense to me unless it's just Cloud's memories clashing with his unrealized desire to change fate. It seems to me that he's traveling through the Lifestream and attempting, but failing, to change fate. There is no multiverse, there are simply a multitude of worlds created by people's memories (primarily Cloud, Sephiroth and Aerith) which are all clashing with each other. Maybe this trilogy isn't about stopping Sephiroth's new plan to become a god, but about Cloud finding acceptance that he can't change Aerith's, Zack's or even his own death. Maybe it's about our acceptance as the player as well considering how many attempts and myths of bringing Aerith back to life were told for decades. I really do think we'll all find closure in the third installment.
WAIT AERITH DIES?!
I KNOW WHO SAW THAT COMING?!
No one mentions Crisis Core Reunion in these videos and the fact that Zack got several letters from Aerith as he was gone for 4/5 years. I agree with everything you said, as far as the hopes and dreams, and the lifestream manifesting characters in different planes. With that being said, these characters are very much alive. Aerith may be dead in one plane, but she is alive in another. Zack is alive as well. When Tifa ran in and saw cloud holding Aerith, Since she had been in the lifestream, what she was seeing was the plane where Aerith was dead with the blood on her hand and the plane where she was alive without the blood. She’s going to be the one who ultimately helps cloud come back to reality by putting the pieces together of what’s going on. Sephiroth’s ultimate goal is more than likely going to be that when he dies, the rest of the universes and the characters who are tied to them will also die. So the dilemma will be that in him going along with Aerith’s notion of there is no such thing as forever, Cloud will need to let her and Zack go by killing SephiRoth and essentially severing her and Zack’s physical connection to the world.
Given the nature of the game and the way the devs said that the dead characters are staying dead, I personally don't see how Zack and Aerith could be alive in any corporeal sense beyond what they are in the lifestream planes. The way they interact with Cloud after the Aerith death scene is similar to the way they interact with Cloud in the white space in Advent Children.
@@tanagreeknose7376Yes, there is white space in advent children, but in these games, The Avalanche crew beat fate. Cloud beat fate again when he stopped Sephiroth’s sword. “No promises await at journey’s end”. There are now multiple realities the Lifestream has manifested into the physical plane. Zack and Aerith are alive in them. Or else the effort at the end of the first game was a waste.
Cope. Its all set up for Cloud to be reunited with Aerith. Especially when he created a timeline where she survives. Also how does crisis core correlate
@@ErenDenizMert cope? Lol gtfoh
@@johnpettiford6547 The whole point was that you can't truly beat fate though as Aerith still dies. Zack and Aerith are clearly not alive at all in the physical plane. Not sure how the effort at the end of the first game was a waste. This is all leading to Advent Children so no one is getting revived.
The lengths some people go to, to try and make sense of what is a terrible plot
@@calahoon22 The overarching plot hasn't really changed since the original game.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Funny, I don't remember anyone having to explain Aerith's death in the original.
You definitely put a lot of thought into Final Fantasy and Eastern religion. Being a follower of Judeo Christianity, a lot of that stuff is over my head. But, I'm not one to argue a thought out theological theory of what the ending is supposed to mean. Obviously, the idea of dying only to enter a spiritual plain of existence where your thoughts and dreams still exist is rather foreign to a Western society based on Judeo Christian beliefs. So, it's hard for us to wrap our heads around that idea.
Instead, I have a link to a video by Soldier_1stClass who goes into reviewing a transcript of FF7 Rebirth Ultimania, specifically about multiple timelines / worlds and Aerith's fate:
th-cam.com/video/44gnHSvgybs/w-d-xo.html
Again, this is not mean to argue who is more right. Just thought I'd pass along official information.
3,693 view and 283 likes 🎉
🥳🥳🥳
"Minor tweaks and changes" like literal war with between Shinra and Wutai... it's not a bad theory, but being influenced and being completely developed in are two different things. We technically aren't even playing as the original party anyway. Also didn't Tidus comeback at the end of X-2?
Coincidentally, Nojima did say in the new Ultimania that his writing was partly inspired by Buddhism, so at least there's that. And what do you mean by not playing as the original party? Is it because Cid and Vincent were non-playable in Rebirth? They're just using them as a hook for the third game is all.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I 100% agree that it's the inspiration. I just believe there is a little bit more to it than that. We already have a few key differences between the OG and Remake that would dramatically change the landscape and make AC not line up.
Such as the white materia needing to be transfered from 1 plain to another. (Not in OG)
If Aerith knew her fate, why did she confess to Cloud that she loved him, before shoving him away and dying? That's extremely out of character and something she has been trying to hide the entire game. (Even in chapter 14 Remake dream sequence) Because she knows that would cause further damage to him. (Not in OG)
The fabricated war between Wutai and Shinra caused by Sephiroth. (Not in OG)
If Cloud learns to accept that Aerith from the Beagle timeline is dead, the plot of AC is already dead on arrival.
I have more, but there is WAY to many differences here and I fully believe that's what the devs intended and we are in for a crazy part 3.
P.S. Cloud being able to shift consciousness when sleeping before her death and see her in Terrior world. I don't think Sephiroth or Aerith knows he can do that and is threading the line. This will probably effect part 3 greatly.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Also one last thing, promise. Buddhism does not believe in pre determined fate, but the guidance of Karma. Good bequeaths good, and bad bequeaths bad. So I say that nothing is off the table just yet.
Hmm cloud might be the one to die instead of zack and aerith to finally stop Sephiroth
5873 view yes
I didn't like the ending too much cause I wanted so bad for things to turn out different and Aerith actually getting saved this time at the end. I thought she was too when Cloud blocked Sephiroth coming down on her, but then it shows that she got stabbed after all and that's not fair at all. Still the fact remains that this is now another alternate world thing and she might still be alive there and Zack too and if the worlds merge somehow they'll all see each other again in part 3 hopefully.
Well, they are still dead.. but will no doubt reunite as Zack hinted, since the lifestream is a world of convergence and divergence. Zack and Aerith need their closure.
@@tanagreeknose7376 Closure? I want them to reunite ALIVE! As I said the worlds might merge together into one somehow and they'll ALL be reunited in part 3.
@@gibbs615 The worlds are in the lifestream though so unfortunately I don't think it will happen especially since they're dead in Advent Children.
@@tanagreeknose7376 I swear those people at Square-Enix better be making part 3 so something truly DOES happen differently that'll bring them both back alive from those alternate worlds!
15:00 lol
Eh?
Man....I just wanted a FFVII remake, what is all this?
Well I'll continue to not buy it then...
No Aerith didn't believe she was fated to die. Cloud said the same thing in OG, and Tifa said it wasn't true.
No Aerith isn't mourning Zack. Just like Cissnei doesn't feel like he's gone. Just like Cloud doesn't feel like Aerith is gone.
No Aerith didn't die. Cloud blocked Seph, having been cured (via Zack) enough to 1) remember Zack and 2) move freely. That's why Seph said he underestimated her. The reason why we see the OG death scenes, is because Seph sent everyone (but Aerith) to OG. OG's temple is in the Southeast, while Rebirth's temple is in the North. Seph said the true black materia is in "the world between worlds", meaning OG world, which is why everyone is now there with the key.
Trolls when Cloud sees Seph: "He's alive."
Trolls when Cloud sees Aerith: "She's dead. He's imagining her out of denial."
Trolls when Zack is alive yet again: "..."
Cait Sith: "I don't know if Sephiroth is dead, alive, or something in between, but I intend to find out."
See those RABBIT portraits in every inn? See those DAISIES in Aerith's inn room, next to her REUNION flowers?
DOOMGUY. IS. COMING.
Bro what are you talking about lol
Not Budism, it's wokism and Nomurism
It is Buddism. Game isn't remotely woke.
If Aerith and Zack are both permanently dead and can't come back, I as well as many other fans are going to be pissed. After all, what is the whole point of the multiverse/multi timeline inclusions in these "remakes"?
Why was Barrett killed then allowed to be immediately resurrected? The developers need consistency
Barret wasn't killed though, he was gravely injured and the whispers heald him up, this was confirmed by Toriyama. Both Aerith & Zack are in the lifestream and have died in the real world, this has been made clear. This is NOT a multiverse.
@@CaliforniaRaisens explain the dog's on the potato chip bags (all used to visually show the player different timelines/multiverse)
@@CaliforniaRaisens and you seem to be forgetting the last couple hours of rebirth, where sephiroth rambles on about the multiverse
@@leviticus6105 The dogs are visual aids to show the different worlds that exist WITHIN the lifestream. It has no relevance to someone being alive or not.
@@leviticus6105 Sephiroth never mentioned multiverse, hell no one in the game or at Sqaure has used that word. What Sephiroth said to Cloud after the dream date is that the planet encompasses a multitude of worlds. These are within the lifestream. This is why in Chapter 10 when Aerith had her hand in the lifestream, she could feel Zack touching her hand in the other world.