Hey Paul, I’m glad your EV is working well for you! Things are so different here in the rural USA. I intentionally bought a 2019 Ford F150 with a 36 gallon tank and ten speed transmission because of the distances I typically drive. I fully appreciate the detailed info you provided - I was a software automation manager when I retired 13 years ago. Great explanation!!
@@russellwall1964 Glad to hear someone with a sensible explanation as to why EVs are not suitable for the USA as a whole right now (maybe never). Normally someone just goes ‘EVs are s***!’ With no actual rational argument. If you live in Europe (like me) it’s difficult to grasp the scale of places in the USA and how far apart people and services can be. We are a lot more compact as a whole in Europe, so EVs can work a lot better. In the USA, EVs seem like a sensible commuter car for the suburban family with their own house and drive (for parking and charging) and another ICE car for longer journeys at holidays and weekends. That is still a very large market to be tapped and a useful drop in urban pollution.
The best way to think about charging is in "miles per hour", which is how many miles range you will add with one hour of change. With a 3 pin wall plug at home, my Tesla will charge at 10 mph, so if i plug it in at 7pm then by 7am the next morning it has added 120 miles range (12 hours at 10 mph). If I use a proper home charge (7 kw), it charges at 30 mph, so empty to fully charged overnight. On the motorway superchargers, i have seen my car charge at 1,100 mph, so fully changed in 20 mins (enough time for a pee and coffee before the next 3.5 hours of driving). The advantage of a proper 7 kw home charger is that you can usually fully charge within the "low tariff" times (economy 7), when a slower 3 pin main plug may still be charging the next morning when the tariff changes. Hope this helps. EVs are beautiful in every way 😊😊
Hi Steve, I agree thinking of charging rates in terms of 'miles per hour' is a good way but it takes a bit of getting used to the idea. Switching from miles per hour (road speed) to miles per hour (charge rate), and also miles per gallon (liquid fuel consumption) to miles per kWh (energy consumption). Similar words but different meanings depending on the context. It's like pounds money and pounds weight, which confuses my American viewers sometimes. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed All we know about it in America we get from episodes of Downton Abbey and various period pieces (usually involving a gruff naval officer looking for a bride and worries over dowries and such). Which is to say, that even one pound was apparently quite valuable back in the day!
@@junkerzn7312 Yes we are good at exporting period drama, but we don't actually live that way and say things like forsooth or lollygagger. But I've been known to whoops-a-daisy occasionally when I want to curse mildly in a polite way.
Some very valid points, but it's something you learn to use very quickly. You're right, it is just like the shift in phones, or the move from TV to Netflix. It's all a bit confusing at first, but once you've done it a few times then it becomes second nature. And you're completely right about some dealers not knowing their products, or not taking the time to make sure their customers know what they're doing. You've approached it with the right attitude though. But when it comes to the future: how long do you think petrol stations will be around? Their profit margins are low, and their customer base is already shrinking.
I also have this E-Up. I live in the Netherlands and I only use public charging. It never fails. The AC-Charging costs me €0,29 and it takes overnight to charge it completely, about 2,5 kWh per hour, so generally 15 hours. DC-charging goes at about 30kW and mostly costs here €0,69. I'm completely satisfied with this car, because I don't drive very long distances. Sometimes I drive 300 kms a day. 30 minutes of DC-charging does the job to bring me back home.
Hi Jane thank you very much for your comment from NL, and the information which is very useful to me as an e-UP! owner. I just love the car and it is so nippy around town. I tried to translate 'nippy' into Dutch and Google says nijdig but I think this is nippy like chilly but I mean nippy like very lively or quick off the line. 😁
I really enjoyed your rambling - very true and entertaining! Great analogy - smartphones equals modern cars (ICE-cars will follow that route soon I guess) Thanks
Good post. I had a Tesla linked to a Ohme, which uses the phone network. Never had a problem all the time I had the Tesla, charged nightly without fault. Just have to get used to the Tesla and Ohme apps, that took a few weeks. I don’t have the ev anymore but that’s nothing to do with ev ownership which is excellent.
Hello Paul. Thank you for the interesting and informative “chat” about the real life experience of charging an EV. I am currently “wobbling” on “the fence” as to whether our next new car is an EV. We are lucky that we can charge from home. As I gracefully age I am increasingly in fear of technology overtaking me. Too often technology is presented to the end user without any thought whatsoever whether it’s “user friendly”. Oh my, I wish we could return to the 1970’s. 🥴
Thanks for the video Paul, i have had my EV for almost 3 years and done about 18k miles, I have had my Pod Point charger since i had the car. It does not connect with my Solar set up and can cause my home battery to drain if I don’t set it up correctly. If i had the opportunity again i would have a Zappi home charger which connects with the solar/battery set up and also configures with Octopus Intelligent Go. If you set up your own schedule through the car then Octopus will change you to Go rather than Intelligent Go as they like to control as and when you charge. I always set up my home charging to correspond with my EV charging to make sure it doesn’t drain my home battery trying to charge the car. Octopus has been very good in helping me to save a lot of money. Intelligent Go is such a cheap rate although i can see that Eon Next are moving into this field with a cheaper rate at the moment. By the way EV Man on TH-cam has a Seat MI (same as the E Up) and has done a few videos on this excellent car.
Hi Lee, so far I have only charged my EV at night. During the night I set my home battery to charge from the grid, and so it will not discharge into the car. If I get a Givenergy charger it will work with my Givenergy inverter and battery so I will not need to pause the battery manually if I charge the car during the day. We have some heavy-load electrical equipment that runs 7 hours at night in the colder months hence I need Economy 7. I don't think I'd switch to Intelligent Octopus Go if it provides cheap energy for less than 7 hours or unpredictably. And I'm not going to be a heavy EV user (minimising the cost of EV charging is not the primary consideration for us). We could switch tariff twice a year but honestly I can't be bothered for the sake of a few quid. Cheers
Your video gave me a number of chuckles! I've been driving EV's for just short of 5 years, I've had a smart wall charger from the outset, there was a government incentive at the time I bought it. I quickly discovered that using its smart features was not necessarily a 'smart' thing to do. The car and charger were more than capable of getting their wires crossed! Public charging, a couple of experiences of public charging. My first was Pod Point at Tescos, at that time free to use, you needed the Pod Point app, having plugged in you used the app to tell the system the name of the charger you were plugged into an off it went. Next time I used a Pod Point charger, different location, no mobile signal equals no charging. Most recently Shell recharge in a Shell filling station. Two charge stations one has been out of use for over a year. The good bit is that it's tap and go using either debit or credit card. Didn't like my Debit card and two out of three credit cards I tried, fortunately it accepted the last one. Finally rates of charge. My wall charger is capable of 7.5 Kw. My first car displayed the rate of charge on the screen. It varied all the time, from 2 or 3 Kw up to around 7kw, this is apparently normal.
Yah, I got two stories on "smart" charging. My Dad (80 yrs old) has a BMW i3, I have an ID.4. My dad had the timer setup in the i3 to only charge after 9pm which means that whenever he needed to charge elsewhere he had to override it. He would forget every once in a while. I, on the other-hand, have a "dumb" EVSE and I don't use any of the vehicle's timer options. When I plug in, the vehicle starts charging immediately without me having to raise a finger outside of plugging it in. I'm sticking with the "dumb" mode. -Matt
I found your video very informative sir, I watch the fully charged youtude channel, they run expos in the uk, canada and australia, every year. Watching their channel has never given me as much info as your video did just then, keep up this great work, because if it wasn’t for people like you we would all be lost. Regards Dean in the UK
Hi Dean, I went to Everything Electric (North) in Harrogate. I had a back seat ride in a Great Wall Ora (Funky Cat) and it opened my eyes. I wanted an EV but not wanting to 'go big' I went cheap(ish) and small with the e-UP. Cheers
makes me more positive about the prospect of owning and coping with an EV. I Ilike VW's (i've a 74 THING and a 97 JETTA) I know the faster charge rates take a toll on battery life due to the heat cycles of charge/discharge so patience pays a literal dividend on your investment. also planning on exclusively storing it outdoors due to obvious lithium issues.
Hi TheKubelman, mine will be in a carport. I tried to find out what battery chemistry is in the 2020 e-UP! but failed. I know it is Lithium-Ion but what type??? I suspect just plain Lithium Ion - not LFPO or some other variant. I don't know where VW are going with smaller EVs now the e-UP! has been discontinued. There was talk of an ID2 but not sure if anything is happening ..... Cheers
I have the petrol version and put about £10 in fuel every 3 weeks which is ideal for me. I was a truck driver and just wanted a small practical vehicle to use for my shopping as I live in the countryside. The smallness of the VW Up is ideal for small country lanes and the road holding is superb. What a lot of people fail to realise is that the big 4x4s can turn over easily even at slow speed and that they need to be very careful on country lanes. Prince Philip found that out at a junction when he turned his over. Happy days.
Well I’m only at @8:30 but I’d hazard a guess it’s nothing to do with needing a smart charger. I’d say it’s probably that the cable which came with your e-up is a 3 phase 16A cable, not a 32A From memory the “charger” wall unit figures out what the capability of the cable is based on the resistance on the pilot pin in the type 2 plug. An added resistor changes how the unit senses what the amp limit is. If you’ve used your friends type 2 cable instead of your own, that’s why it is now higher.
Hiya Salibaba, yes I see your logic but I used my own 32A cable in both cases. There is a chance that the electrician who installed the 'dumb' charger configured it to 16A (I checked it was on a 40A breaker) but my friend swears his car charges quickly (even though he did not have the figure as hard data). Cheers.
I chose to keep home charging very simple and a much cheaper installation, single phase 32 Amp commando socket and a suitable charging lead total cost £220. The lead has some clever stuff that I never use, just plug in and switch on with a real switch. I can adjust the % level of charge in the car app or in the car to stop the charge or just use the switch and unplug, simple and no connection issues with the charger at least. Delivers 7.4kw this slows down towards 100% the last few % if required and I assume this would happen with most cars. Keep rambling
In terms of transition I think we forget how long the existing ICE cars are going to be around. People will be buying new ICE cars in the UK at least until 20230/5. There is every reason to expect that those cars will be on the road for about 15 years and quite a few for 20 years. This means that even though the expansion of public charging suitable for people without off-street solutions has been quite slow to evolve there's little reason to panic! There are still lots of potential customers who do have access to home charging and for whom EV ownership can be an attractive option. So we could have up to 25 years to make it readily accessible for all! In reality I suspect that once the transition to EV becomes more "mainstream" there is likely to be a much more rapid adoption so will take place much sooner than that 25 years... but that's speculation of course.
At the start of this year, the ship I work on was in drydock in Rotterdam for maintenance. In the dock next to us was the utterly gutted burned out hulk of the car carrier Fremantle Highway. The vessel was so badly damaged by fire that the hull plates had bowed due to the intense heat. The ship was on fire off the coast of The Netherlands for over a week; it took that long for the Dutch authorities to extinguish the flames. The vessel was carrying electric cars and the battery of one of these had started the blaze. After seeing that ship, I never want an electric car! I believe that the future lies in ICE vehicles powered by hydrogen, or electric cars utilising fuel cell technology, or some hybrid of both of these. Extremely well presented film Paul, thanks.
I think it will be a mixed economy Carl. I see that JCB are developing Hydrogen-powered IC engines for earth movers and other high-cycle machines. Basically the same bottom end and just mods to the head and injection systems. I agree that battery fires are hard to put out. But in terms of numbers, well many of us have seen petrol/gas car fires - they are not uncommon actually. Ask your local fire brigade. Cheers Paul
@@HaxbyShed most petrol/gas fires in cars are likely down to bad maintenance/service or component failure causing fuel leaks etc on hot exhaust manifolds not from batteries that catch fire because they can for no apparent reason.
@@campingstovemanNo I’m afraid you’re wrong. Brand new ICE cars can still catch fire even after sitting there on the drive not being driven. They are so complex now that fires are very common. EV battery fires are most likely to happen because the battery pack has suffered some trauma, but EV fires are very rare.
The Fremantle Highway story has been quite confused and distorted. The fire didn't start with an electric vehicle and neither was the severity of the fire the result of electric vehicles subsequently burning. I'll take the word of the company that salvaged the vessel: "salvage company Boskalis said that the EVs appear to be in good condition. Peter Berdowski, CEO, Boskalis Salvage Company told local Dutch press that the 500 EVs are among the 1,000 vehicles that “seem to be in good condition” and are “perfectly movable”.
We have a Kia EV6 here in OZ and it can (confirmed by testing) charge at 233KW between 20% ~ 80%. So if the Infrastructure would be there then fast charging of just 15 ~ 20 minutes are entirely possible. I fully agree...everywhere that I have seen in the majority of countries, this capable Infrastructure is another 20 years away. the funny part is that high capacity/high charging speed vehicles will be the norm in less then 10 years. So it's not the EV and battery technology that is the problem, it's our electricity grids that are way behind.
A very interesting video, as always. Earlier this week I filled in an IPSOS survey conducted by the Ministry of Transport. One of the questions was "how far away is your nearest public charger?". Both of our cars are still ICE so I had to think fairly carefully from visual memory. In the end, I figured that it was the worst case option : 10 miles or more (where there are four chargers, I think). Admittedly, we live in a rural area and a reasonable percentage of people have off street parking, but what about the rest? A significant proportion of properties that I pass frequently are small, old terraced cottages, often in conservation areas and councils forbid on street charging. Now, I don't live in a "two horse town". Our village has 1000 inhabitants and is fairly typical of what is around here. It is also noticeable that the proportion of new cars owned by people in rural communities is far lower than what I used to see when we lived in a large city. People don't attach status to vehicles in the same way that I used to see in the city. Plus, on poor pay, so many in the countryside simply cannot afford to buy or lease a new car, especially with the horrendous depreciation that electric vehicles currently enjoy. I can't blame charger installation companies for avoiding rural locations and focusing upon built up areas - why wouldn't they maximise their usage capability? So, I feel that adoption of electric vehicles in rural locations will be very slow, probably much slower than in more densely populated areas. As for us - we have two ICE cars, both five years old and in decent condition. Neither car is driven far each year and both are something of an indulgence. We have no motivation to buy electric even though we have plenty of off street parking. The cost to change is simply too high.
I live in a very rural part of the UK and would just comment that EV ownership over the past 5+ years has been excellent from a practicality point of view ... our nearest petrol stations depending on direction are 19 miles or 18 miles, so it's a breeze to be able to routinely plug in at home! Our nearest (large) supermarkets in a sizeable town require about a 50 miles round trip. When we use the car it isn't just for a 5 or 6 mile jaunt. I always have the car plugged in at home and have set the car to always routinely charge to 75% overnight and that gives me more than enough miles for the following day. I choose that percentage to optimise battery health as I intend to keep it a long time. We have family in other parts of the UK and have driven pretty much the length and breadth of the country without restriction ... though it is worth doing a little pre-planning if going "off-piste"! (Due to the initial business lease periods for EVs bought new now coming to an end there has been a flood of great value EVs onto the market for those that are interested.)
This is where Tesla make the whole thing very different. I think I've only needed to use a non-Tesla charger twice in all my travels on holidays etc. The Tesla chargers pump in 600 miles an hour and are always available. The infrastructure will get there. Just got to get rid of all the useless slow chargers dotted about in supermarket car parks. These are rubbish. Tesla, Mer, Instavolt are brilliant.
Hi Paul, I get a new Mini EV through work and charge overnight on an Octopus Low EV rate on the supplied wall charger. All works for me and I use the car everyday on a 40 mile round trip to work and back. I did come across the British company My Energy who seem to make great products made here in the UK. PS the Beason mill is now finished 😊 just need to find time to make a TH-cam video to show finished product.
Last year moved to a new apartment. New build apartments have by law to provide charging facilities. So far the one here is not yet working but we have public 7 kw chargers only a quarter-mile away so not a problem. The fast charging situation has improved massively over the last couple of years but sadly our area has not yet caught up.
I got an Chevrolet Bolt EV because it's the most efficient way to get around town for the journeys we do. 4 miles/kWh, and we pay 10c/kWh for electricity - except we generate our own solar. That's 2.5c/mile, and we can improve on that 4miles/kWh with careful driving. The most efficient hybrid, a Prius, gets 70mpg. For that to work out cheaper, gas would need to be $1.70 a US gallon. It isn't.
Well, EVs will replace ICE, there is no question about that. It was obvious a decade ago, in fact. And your own experience puts an exclamation mark on why. Technology only moves forward. Things only improve. Battery capacities only increase, charge rates will continue to increase. Infrastructure will continue to scale. And we aren't talking a slow pace here. These things are progressing very quickly world-wide. The car itself should tell you how fast it is charging. Usually it will be on the display as the number of miles per hour the car is charging at. I would prefer a kW display myself, but it's easy to determine from the miles-per-hour of charging. This is another avenue where older technologies were a bit clunky but new ones are not. My VW ID.4 for example, I just plug it in to my home EVSE and it starts charging immediately. No buttons have to be pressed, no nothing. I just plug it in and head inside. I've never encountered any situation where it wouldn't charge, at home, at a friend's house, with a portable EVSE, or even at the few fast DC chargers I've used. It always charges. But you know, it doesn't really matter how fast it is charging at home. You just plug it in and the next morning its at 100% Literally. So there we have a good example of just technological advancement solving a lot of these insecurities and clunky issues. EV ranges are now 200+ miles (300+ for Teslas). In a few years it will be 400+ miles (some EVs already have that much). There are already rumors of 1000+ miles. Once you get past a certain point the range exceeds what any sane person is willing to drive in a day even when taking a long trip. And the more range a vehicle has, the less often you have to charge or worry about charging. It becomes less of a problem. The difference between a vehicle with a 50 mile battery and a 100 mile battery is night and day. And the difference between a vehicle with a 100 mile battery and a 200 mile battery is night and day. This kind of progress, alone, spells doom for gasoline. But it is up to governments to recognize what is happening and support it, which the U.K. isn't really doing a good job at doing. Even here in the U.S. only a few states are really heavily pushing EVs. 25% of all passenger car sales in California are EVs now (PHEVs and BEVs... mostly BEVs). Unfortunately, politicization of electric vehicles and renewable technologies has resulted in a slower than ideal adoption rate, and that has allowed China to get way ahead of us on the technologies (in China, 50%+ of new passenger vehicle sales are EVs now). For some reason a segment of the population seems to believe that its all just a big fairy tale, which is unfortunate, but that won't stop adoption. EVs are just too good and now that cost is crossing over the cost of an ICE vehicle (to the point where governments are imposing tariffs to try to slow down Chinese imports)... well, the writing is on the wall. Its either join up or be left behind. -Matt
Thanks Matt. The e-UP! was an early EV launched in 2014, though my 2020 model is quite improved. It does not tell me how fast it is charging - it just tells me how many hours it will take and knowing the % battery state I can work out the charge rate. It does not matter - I chose the e-UP! for its retro features like analogue dials, the battery charge state is on an analogue 'fuel gauge' with a mechanical pointer. It's great!! In the UK the Government is always reluctant to invest public money in things like charging infrastructure - be it charge points or upgrades to our national electricity grid. We've cases of charge points waiting years for a grid connection. This is despite the UK Government being a very strong supporter of carbon neutral policies. The blah blah blah policy is just not backed up by leadership, action and cash. And if it's not any of them then it's Local Government planning delays and obstructions (what you might call County-level land development approvals). Cheers
We've got a Seat Mii, basically the same car (2021 model). I use the granny cable also but read the same stuff regarding the max charge rate. I asked the Seat dealer about it and they said there was no patch and that the car would only charge at 3.7K on a single phase so I was surprised when you said you got 7.4K on an intelligent charger, well worth knowing
Hi Bristolview, I'm reasonably sure the 2014 version would only charge at 3.7kW and came with a 16A charging cable. But it looks like from sometime around 2020 7.4kW charging is possible (with a 32A cable). I'm not sure of the exact reason - for sure you have to set the charge rate in the VW app to 32A but also I'm reasonably sure it depends on the wall charger too. The e-UP! does not actually display the charge rate in kW but does show the remaining charge time in hours and the battery % so from that you can work it out. But as you saw, it definitely charged at 7.2kW on this occasion on single phase with the intelligent wall charger. My dealer was no help either - they just don't know much about these models which did not sell in high volume. Cheers
Hi dama, I saw that. Apparently the early e-UPs came with a 16A cable but mine came with a 32A cable - I guess that should have been a clue but of course VW don't tell you anything useful about that .... 🙄
Be aware when you’re looking at 7Kw chargers. The car will loose connection at some point as it’s currently struggling on with 2G since 3G was turned off. To use intelligent Go it need the communication or a smart (recommended) charger. GivEnergy are not there with the smart integration yet so I went elsewhere for now. I have the battery etc.
Hi Andy, yes I've spotted that potential bump in the road coming - it looks like VW Car-Net is built on 3G. Whilst UK OFCOM has agreed that 2G and 3G will shut down by 2033 in fact most operators are planning to close those networks very soon. Vodafone and EE have completed their 3G network switch offs already. Three(3) is expected to switch off its 3G network by the end of 2024 with VMO2 expected to follow in 2025. So the real question to be answered (discovered/proved) is whether VW saw this coming and put in a 4G e-sim in their later production runs. Of course they don't tell customers/owners anything so no doubt I will just find out in time. If the car still has a connection at the end of 2025 then maybe they did switch to 4G. If I lose the internet connection I can still set the charging timers etc on the Maps & More app on bluetooth within the car - for as long as they keep the app available. I think all later UPs (fuel and EV) use the M&M app, which has more than 100k downloads on Google Playstore so here's hoping. By the way, I think Gen 1 Smartmeters also use 3G for comms so they will be stuffed too. All that hot air about remotely upgrading SMETS1 meters to SMETS2 emulation ... just BS really. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed with all phones, they always have the possibility to drop down the range. As we are in 2g only now I think it’s likely to be a couple of years before it goes completely. Lots of stuff which was 3G has dropped onto the 2G network and they know it’s a risk to turn it off fully as it has the greatest range. No network wants to be without any signal when people need to rely on the network, it would be the worst marketing ever. The 4G is poor and fully utilised now and 5g is a joke for range. The next generation 6G is just going to piggy back 4G. VW knew the problem with 3G shut down and there is a couple of legal cases in the USA as 2G was disabled the same day. The VW car really struggles with intelligent octopus as you only get 10 wake-up calls to the dash before the ignition needs cycled.
FWIW our MGZSEV charges on all type 2 HOME chargers BUT on some chargers it can take what feels like 2 mins to go through the connection process. We gave up at one of our friends place, started to walk away but left the car plug. Then it started charging much to our surprise. *edited*
Hi ObieP, it's fine when you know that's what it does but for a new EV driver it's a bit worrying/confusing. There almost needs to be a 1 hour 'training' session with every EV sold. I suppose if you walk away before it starts charging then there is always the doubt weather it will have charged when you get back? On my app I can see if it is charging, if I have a signal on my phone (which is by no means guaranteed). Cheers
@@HaxbyShed I was only talking home chargers at friends. I’ll update what I said to reflect that. I agree on the training session. We have found people vert helpful at charging stations.
I never understood why VW stopped making the one-up and its derivatives, great wee cars. We have had a zoe for three and a half years and haven't had any problems with public charging. The zoe happily charges on AC up to 42kw and DC to 50kw. Yes theres a learning curve.
Hi Graham I read a quote from VW that it stopped making the UP! class cars because they did not comply with some new EU cyber security directive coming in 2025 and (implied) it would be too expensive to make the models compliant. Perhaps some hostile intelligence service could hack into my car, take control of my lane assist camera and see my underpants on the washing line. National security risk .... or just not enough profit in them? Cheers
The DC Instavolt charger on Clifton Moor is charging a van next to you, as you've already stated, so the amount you can charge will almost certainly be throttled back because of supply issues. The PodPoint chargers outside DFS, which are free at the moment, only output a maximum of 4kw, even though PodPoint say they are 7kw chargers. The main problem with any public charger is the supply. If the cabling to that area can not support the load, you won't get what the charger is built to be capable of. Think of it as a product that is advertised as up to 100% effective. It could only be 50% effective and still be legal as 50% is up to 100%.
Useful local knowledge thanks John. It's part of getting used to EVs - this uncertainty of charge delivery. What annoys me (in a minor way) is you plug in for up to 160kW at £0.79 per kWh but if it delivers 24kW you still pay £0.79 per kWh. That said even 7kW is likely to be £0.50 per kWh so it's not a linear scale anyway. And regular local users will have their preferences anyway (so it's maybe not such a big issue). Just interesting to know/learn that's how it is. Cheers
I use octopus with a 'dumb' 32A commando charger and they tell the car when it should draw current. I don't configure the car or the charger to manage the charging therefore no confusion - I just leave it to Octopus to turn it on when it's cheap. It relies upon the car's own 4g internet connection and for me it works well. (Id.3) The charge current should stop before the main pins disengage if you pull the plug out hot. For proper uptake, they need to enable flat dwellers to access night time rates. Without this there's no incentive.
Very interesting Paul, Watched and listened all the way through. The number of factors you need to consider to know if an EV makes sense for one’s usage, is rather daunting to say the least. Here in California they’re now considering a per mile tax to cover road maintenance that was normally covered by fuel tax. Something else to throw in the mix. Great info thanks for sharing Cheers…….
Hi Dean after many years of near zero road tax on low pollution cars (both fuel and EV) from next April the 'green' road tax benefits disappear for cars registered after 2017. I'm waiting to hear what the tax on my EV will be. Cheers
They need to! The cars weigh twice as much as an ICE vehicle and the roads are paid for with fuel tax money. How they are going to figure your usage is anyone's guess.
@@jagboy69 Did you see the car in this video? 1235kg (2723lbs). My own EV is about the size of a BMW M2 and weighs slightly less than that car. Yes there are huge heavy SUV style EVs but there are huge heavy ICE vehicles too!
Note that what California appears to be moving towards is a mileage tax on ALL vehicles to replace the old "gas" tax. It won't be an EV-only thing at the end.
Mine started charging at 7.4 (up from 3.7) after several months once I had fiddled with the max charging current in the seat mii app. It started immediately after fiddling so I’m certain that’s it. Seat dealership could not sort it or give any useful information.
Hi Darren, well it is possible that was the 'fix' for mine as I was trying several things around that time. The first charger I tried 'is in the family' so I could easily try it again on the same charger sometime for curiosity. I asked two VW main dealers about charging rates with the same result - they did not know. Cheers
DC fast charging speeds may be affected by: - cold battery - hot battery - battery too full - other ev charging at same charger or even a few chargers away that share the max speed - charger itself is too hot - charger is faulty So yeah, many reasons why this could be.
Thank you ventsilev, I will try DC charging again soon at the same place when there are no other vehicles on charge. It's not critical for me, I'm just experimenting to learn. Cheers
G’day Paul. I trust you’re enjoying your new electric vehicle. Personally I don’t think electric ⚡️ will ever replace ICE, but they are getting a market share. I recently purchased a Riese & Müller German e-bike. I love it and ride whenever possible. Cheers 🍻 Aaron
ICE will eventually fade into history. We will eventually reach point where petrol stations begin closing, and fuel becomes less easy to find and buy. Shell UK already have outline plans to cut production of petrol and diesel by up to 40% by 2030, if it becomes necessary. Details were in a previous Shell business report...
I'm sure that's what horse owners said when the first ice cars arrived. Now the only horses are either used for competing or leisure. (Not counting the Amish of course) 🙂
Hi Stephen, at the boot lip level it is 950mm side to side and 400mm front to back. It is 600mm from the boot floor to the parcel shelf. As you can imagine it comes in a little at the back corners and also the seats slope back into the boot so it is a bit narrower towards the top but I think I've given a fair description. You can get quite a few shopping bags in there side by side. Cheers
The car can cope with 7kw, The AC cables are dumb, they have a resistance in each head, when connected in either end they measure the resistance and feed it back to the charger to send power to the car. This can catch people out when they use an older cable. Only DC uses intelligent communication as it’s the charger which controls the dc charge voltage. The E-up really struggled with DC charging. The Egolf was more stable for DC charging.
HI Andy, I knew about the resistor in the AC charging cable (discovered during my research). But I did not know that only DC uses intelligent communication - thanks. Cheers
Very useful information, if rather off-putting. Looks like best to go to sleep for ten years and see how things develop! Why does charger need to talk to the internet if you have a smart meter? I see Ovo Anytime requires a smart meter, which I don't have as I have 3-phase.
Hi Samuel, a couple of reasons for the wall charger to talk to the internet. Firstly they are programmable but there is usually no local display - you program it through the app over the internet. Secondly intelligent tariffs take direct control of the charger over the internet. So for example Octopus intelligent Go decides when the car will charge ( a combination of demand management and lowest tariff) and instructs the charge to start and stop to complete the charge by the set departure time. Technically there might be several charge sessions in a night as the tariff or demand fluctuates. Science fiction = science fact. You will be alright with your 3 phase home charging at up to 22kW. Cheers
The first thing to understand is that using AC, the charger is actually in the car. That car onboard charger converts AC to DC that is then put into the battery. The unit fixed to the wall is NOT the charger. I know that everybody calls it a charger but it's not. It's just a fancy switch that checks safety before it allows the current to flow. As you say, there is a communication to negotiate the rate of charge that can be accepted. But the wall-box, and/or the cable, may only be able to send at lower rate than the car is able to take. So that low rate is what happens. Much like the weakest link in a chain sets the most strain level.
Thank you Hitstirrer, yes I have some electrical background myself and I know you are correct technically. It just confuses things when all the wall power supplies are marketed as 'chargers'. Wall supply units (aka chargers) need DNO approval (so I read) and are commonly not permitted on linked supplies, where the house supply is looped to several houses like on a terrace row. Hmmm I wonder how many chargers are installed without DNO approval .... I've no idea. Cheers
The EVs I work on will let you by pass the programed charge schedule by plugging in the cable the quickly unplugging in, and then plugging it back in. You don't need to do anything. That way, anytime we service a vehicle, we can charge it for a customer without even getting into the vehicle.
You can compare it to the early car market, most people either walked, or used a horse, and there was this thing called a train. The first cars you had to go to the chemist to get white spirit to run it, not hay, which had dedicated stores that supplied it, and whole industries that grew it, processed it and transported it to places, where you got it. now you have a new EV, which has the same limited infrastructure, and few places that supply it in a fast way, while the existing ICE has the equivalent to hay everywhere. Soon enough this will change, the ICE and EV will have combined charging and fuel stations, and you will get more EV charging, and people will adapt to the EV market, just like you did to the change from a fixed land line, and having to be home to answer it, to having a mobile phone that is almost always with you.
Problem is the set up costs are very high having to pay the very high price for wall box installation the prices are dropping for used Ev,s which is good it’s a start but there is a very long way to go before I invest heavily into an EV
Hi Anthony, I'm having my wall box installed tomorrow. It's costing 10% of what I paid for the car, because of other works required to get the 32A capacity into my carport. I could keep charging from the 13A socket but I want to charge from my home battery, or solar or grid as one integrated system. It an indulgence not financially justified to be honest, but I like tech things. Saying that, if I can get onto Intelligent Octopus Go the EV charger will start to pay for itself. Cheers
What, you think it's going to cost me £350m a mile to get from the middle of nowhere to the middle of nowhere? Great value, I can't see the problem :-)
They will take over; Norway is a good example if where we are headed, they are already at over 90% of new cars are EV. Keep in mind the e-up while is a brilliant little EV is very modest compared to modern EVs that typically have 250 miles of daily range and a decently fast rapid charging rate (the best can add 100 miles in 10 mins).
Mark, thanks I had a look at this. Norway has around 27,500 publicly accessible EV chargers and about 2.9 million cars. So that's 105 cars per public charger. UK has about 53,000 publicly accessible charges and about 41.4 million cars. So to get to the same density of chargers per car as Norway we need about 340,000 more chargers, or about 6.5 times what we have now. Furthermore the AI chatbot tells me that 94% of Norwegians are able to charge at home compared to just 54% of Brits. Now there will be more complex factors and differences that my 'fag packet' calculation overlooks but clearly we have a lot to do to get to the same position as Norway. Cheers Paul
Public charging infrastructure is not really a show-stopper. The real end-game for EV charging will always be destination / home / parking-lot / parking-slot L2 charging. "Destination charging" for short. That has always been the end-game. And the reason is simply because that is all that is needed as EV range continues to increase. That's the end-game.
It is a steep learning curve. Videos like this helps, many thanks! But you are partly wrong about the communication between an EV an a home or AC charger. There is very little information exchanged in this case. One signal says car/charger is present. One informs the other part how much power it can take/provide. And thats it. And as you point out, it is very easy to mix things up and have the car settings and the charger settings not cooperate. Also, the charge rate you get can depend on the charge cable you use. The cables look about the same, but one can only handle for example 1 phase 16A, another 3 phase 32A, and so on. It is not easy to get it all right.
Hi Martin, thanks for the comment. It's looking increasingly likely my problem with the first wall charger was the charging current limit set in the car app. I can't be certain until I go back to my friend's and try it again. One person commented that their VW e-UP (Citigo, mii) arrived with the charging limit set at 5 Amps! Soon corrected once you know, but there are absolutely no instructions with the App, so it's all self-learning by experiment. Now I understand that there is minimal negotiation for AC charging but it's still not instant when you press the 'immediate charge' button in the car. Immediate charge is the alternative to timed charge but nothing actually explains that - and both immediate and timed have their own separate settable charge rates. After pressing the button there are a few seconds of delay as sensors sense and relays click over and charging actually starts. But I'm still loving the car 🚗. Cheers
Can you imagine spending such a lot of time and effort on a petrol car, talking about filling it up, and how some garages were faster than others? Its comparing the quality of pigs ears.
Hi Steve, very true about the complexity. So why would the general public buy EVs? For most people it comes down to cost - if/when they are much cheaper they will. Even a small price advantage can make a big difference to uptake. Cheers
Electric transport propulsion was buried by fossil fuel, decades ago, due to cost and ease of production/labour skill of society and business greed for the immediate .... now we are paying for it, especially our kids, lets hope the prehistoric supply network and driver education really wakes up, without being told to do so, by governments ... Mars won't save us !?
Tried to buy one back in 2015/6. Vw actually tried to put me off and sell a petrol one, never went back, bought a Tesla- never going back 🙂. VW stealership 🤡🤡🤡
Hi Pollywollydo, it's strange how dealerships are incentivised/behave. For EVs in the UK I believe VW now contract direct with customers, with the dealerships just showrooms on commission. But I have it on good authority that the commissions on EVs pays well - as least as good as the dealership profit on the fuel cars. But I heard a salesman say "I'm not going to wreck my relationship with longstanding customers by selling them an EV that depreciates £20K as it drives out of the showroom". I'm afraid that VW have got that wrong - just watching on TH-cam today a whole raft of cheap small EVs are coming in 2025 and they are not all Chinese. Renault is doing quite well with some promising models lined up. The 2020 e-UP! like mine is still a bit behind on capability now but it's a lot better than the 2014 e-UP! which had half the battery size. It's a bit retro with analogue displays but that's what I wanted - I did not want a load of display screens. Cheers
I dread to think what it will be like when everybody is forced to have one of these bb--dy things. There seems to be so many things that have not been considered. I can see the sense in having an EV in your case and probably mine too.
Hi Andy, I think part of the problem is that Governments set policy (sometimes not practically grounded) but then expect that companies working in collaboration will sort out the details. In reality companies are often not in a position, or it's not in their interests, to create a coherent solution design. Governments and standards bodies have to lead - but they so often don't, so the result is a mess. I saw it on the NHS National Programme for IT where for a couple of years Government was unwilling to do (resource and pay for) the high level system design and set standards but in the end they did and actually they did a very good job (but my goodness they resisted it for a long time). Smartmeters - I have a friend who was a national-level technical advisor who said from the outset they were making bad technical decisions and now we are paying for it. About 20% of Startmeters are dumb or won't connect to the network due to bad design choices. Cheers
You will never be forced to have one. If you don't want one, then you won't have to get one. Exactly in the same way now, that if you don't want a car, then you don't have to own one....
@@HaxbyShed Yes, our government really dropped the ball. To continue the sporting analogy ... if somebody doesn't set out the lines on the pitch and give you a set of rules it doesn't matter how capable the players are, they're just not going to be able to play a game.
One wonders why, when a mobile or tablet can negotiate charging fast or normal charging instantly upon being plugged in, these EVs seem to need additional interventions to do the same thing. Having to connect to the internet seems... interesting. I don't want to be reaching for tinfoil but would say why not just make it simple instead of overly complicated? There is a saying: Simplicity, the art of maximising on the work NOT done, is important.
Welcome to the future. ICE cars are so rough and uncivilised aren't they? On the DC charger you were trying to charge it at too high state of charge. Just like filling a jug of water, if it is empty you start fillign it fast but as it fills up you ease off as it gets more and more full. All batteries do that whether they are iun cars or phones or whatever.
Depends on the battery management software and the charging curve that vw have programmed. The colder and the fuller the battery, the slower it charges
Not sure about new E-up's, but I don't think they have active battery pack cooling, just air cooling, so Fast DC charging is never going to be "fast" under any circumstance for that vehicle.
You have made many mistakes in this video. If we charge at 28 MPH and do 10,000 miles a year then we need to charge on average less than one hour a day. I have had my Zappi II charger and Tesla Model 3 for almost 5 years as our only car. It becomes easy over time. I think you will gain experience and confidence over time.
Hi Simon, I can't argue against your average. But it's like investing in the stock market. On average it will return 5% per annum, but on a single day you might lose 25% (if you sell). I don't anticipate any problem myself because I don't go far and I can always top up at home every night. But for people who cannot charge at home and have to wait their turn for a public charger every few days or so - and if it is slow AC .... for some people it will be an issue. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed You also implied that you cannot achieve a full recharge overnight. Well 28MPH for 12 hours is 336 miles. That is more than a full recharge on the vast majority of EVs.
@@SimonEllwood ah yes that's true technically of course but the context was on cheap rate electricity which is available between 4 and 7 hours a night in the UK. If I was making a long trip I'd charge it until it was full regardless of the hours and tariff but if I was just charging it to take it from empty to full (no long trip planned) then I may have to charge it in two cheap rate sessions over two nights. Charging at home on any tariff is still a lot cheaper than public charging but money is money 💰. I never meant I would not buy an EV because of that, because clearly I have. The big issue is availability of public chargers for people who can't charge at home - if anything that will delay mass adoption (after the prices come down). People quote Norway for 90% adoption but Norway has 6x more public chargers by ratio to cars and 94% of Norwegians can charge at home vs max 54% in the UK. Cheers
@@HaxbyShedYes with 7 hours of cheap rate at 28 MPH you can only do 70,000 miles of cheap motoring a year. If you go beyond 196miles on a lot of days of the year from your house then get three phase installed in your house. My father in law has three phase in his house.
Hi, I'm sorry but you don't have a basic understanding of EV charging from a home charger. You don't just charge during the overnight hours, most tariffs you plug in your car and it charges up to the time you reqire the car whatever the time of day, and you only get charged the overnight price, depending on the grid load. So, for instance, you arrive home at 5pm and you plug in stating you need car by 9am next day at 100%, your supplier then woorks out charging times and grid load, and charges your car balancing everything, and you're only charged the overnight rate! I suggest you update your knowledge before making future videos. One other thing, battery technoloy is advancing fast and you can charge at ever increasing speeds, with ever increasing battery ranges, your VW eUp is quite an outdated EV to base your electric experiance from, as good as the eUp is it's now quite out of date....
Hi Tony, I think it's clear I'm not claiming to be any sort of authority on these things. The fact is most people will start with very limited knowledge and then figure it out (as indeed I am). I'm not aware of tariffs that will give cheap rate in the daytime but that's my lack of knowledge perhaps - do you mean Octopus Intelligent Go or if you know others can you share please so we can all learn and benefit? I know certain intelligent tariffs only work with certain chargers and certain cars. Octopus have a 'check your car compatibility' on their website. The e-UP! is compatible. [Just to add a bit more - you can only get a smart/intelligent tariff if you have a smart meter. To date only half of the rollout has been completed and about 20% of installed smart meters won't connect at present. Also in the North there are quite a lot of areas that can't get a signal - you probably know the way they connect in the North and South is different. But this is not briefing against EVs, it's just highlighting there is work to do to get to high levels of adoption.] Cheers
The purpose of electric cars is not to provide a more sustainable alternative to ice vehicles, because they’re clearly not. The purpose is to make personal transport unaffordable for the average person
I can't quite figure out what you state 'to make personal transport unaffordable', are you saying that EVs are to eliminate ICE cars or that the EVs are expensive to run, if the latter then that's a load of tosh, I've had my EV for 2 years now, charging at home @ 7kW costs me £3.80 for 7 hours at night giving a range of 245 miles, I'm a pensioner not on a full pension, so really pleased with my EV. There are a lot of AntiEVers out there, spreading misinformation for the hell of it....
You must be looking at the prices of new EVs. Instead look at used ones; even 1 or 2 year old examples are terrific value and pretty much all came with a 8 year warranty on the battery.
I don’t know why proper chargers ended up costing around £1000, my early (smart) Ohme charger (7kW) was £200 discounted from £250 via a deal with Octopus.
Please be aware granny charges are intended for occasional use. Yes you can use them as the only charger; I did daily for a couple of years but the 13-amp 3-pin socket and circuit back to the fuse board have to be up to it. 2.4kW is only 10 amps but the 13amp rating is aimed at normal appliances like a kettle that runs for 5 mins, not an EV running for multiple hours. Montreal and error I found metal faced sockets were best at dispersing the heat.
Please be aware granny charges are intended for occasional use. Yes you can use them as the only charger; I did daily for a couple of years but the 13-amp 3-pin socket and circuit back to the fuse board have to be up to it. 2.4kW is only 10 amps but the 13amp rating is aimed at normal appliances like a kettle that runs for 5 mins, not an EV running for multiple hours. Montreal and error I found metal faced sockets were best at dispersing the heat.
Hi Paul, glad you're enjoying your EV. Some great information you shared with us. The worrying thing is, you mention about getting the charger to start and the hand shake it does with communicating with the energy supplier. There's already talk that once EV's are more common and get a good foot hold Government will step in and begin forcing energy suppliers to throttle/prevent us from charging when congestion is high to reduce traffic on the roads! Regards Kevin
Still far too lacking in intuitive user friendliness for my liking. There is a lot that needs to improve before I would be persuaded to consider owning an EV.
Hi Howard, not too bad if you normally charge at home, you feel a bit more in control. Imagine the future when your AI assistant says "you are hungry Howard, please eat this now" 😱
Well in a way that's the point. I've worked all my career in electrical engineering, IT and telco and consider myself pretty tech savvy. And I've watched many videos on EVs. But I find my self still on a steep learning curve when it comes to the practical aspects. I mean, if you press the charge button you kinda expect it to charge not sit there for minutes whilst it decides. How would I know if that is a feature or a fault? Nothing tells you except hands on practical experience. Cheers
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Hey Paul, I’m glad your EV is working well for you! Things are so different here in the rural USA. I intentionally bought a 2019 Ford F150 with a 36 gallon tank and ten speed transmission because of the distances I typically drive. I fully appreciate the detailed info you provided - I was a software automation manager when I retired 13 years ago. Great explanation!!
@@russellwall1964 Glad to hear someone with a sensible explanation as to why EVs are not suitable for the USA as a whole right now (maybe never). Normally someone just goes ‘EVs are s***!’ With no actual rational argument. If you live in Europe (like me) it’s difficult to grasp the scale of places in the USA and how far apart people and services can be. We are a lot more compact as a whole in Europe, so EVs can work a lot better.
In the USA, EVs seem like a sensible commuter car for the suburban family with their own house and drive (for parking and charging) and another ICE car for longer journeys at holidays and weekends. That is still a very large market to be tapped and a useful drop in urban pollution.
The best way to think about charging is in "miles per hour", which is how many miles range you will add with one hour of change. With a 3 pin wall plug at home, my Tesla will charge at 10 mph, so if i plug it in at 7pm then by 7am the next morning it has added 120 miles range (12 hours at 10 mph). If I use a proper home charge (7 kw), it charges at 30 mph, so empty to fully charged overnight. On the motorway superchargers, i have seen my car charge at 1,100 mph, so fully changed in 20 mins (enough time for a pee and coffee before the next 3.5 hours of driving). The advantage of a proper 7 kw home charger is that you can usually fully charge within the "low tariff" times (economy 7), when a slower 3 pin main plug may still be charging the next morning when the tariff changes. Hope this helps. EVs are beautiful in every way 😊😊
Hi Steve, I agree thinking of charging rates in terms of 'miles per hour' is a good way but it takes a bit of getting used to the idea. Switching from miles per hour (road speed) to miles per hour (charge rate), and also miles per gallon (liquid fuel consumption) to miles per kWh (energy consumption). Similar words but different meanings depending on the context. It's like pounds money and pounds weight, which confuses my American viewers sometimes. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed All we know about it in America we get from episodes of Downton Abbey and various period pieces (usually involving a gruff naval officer looking for a bride and worries over dowries and such). Which is to say, that even one pound was apparently quite valuable back in the day!
@@junkerzn7312 Yes we are good at exporting period drama, but we don't actually live that way and say things like forsooth or lollygagger. But I've been known to whoops-a-daisy occasionally when I want to curse mildly in a polite way.
Some very valid points, but it's something you learn to use very quickly. You're right, it is just like the shift in phones, or the move from TV to Netflix. It's all a bit confusing at first, but once you've done it a few times then it becomes second nature. And you're completely right about some dealers not knowing their products, or not taking the time to make sure their customers know what they're doing. You've approached it with the right attitude though.
But when it comes to the future: how long do you think petrol stations will be around? Their profit margins are low, and their customer base is already shrinking.
Really well presented material Paul. Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks you 👍
I also have this E-Up. I live in the Netherlands and I only use public charging. It never fails.
The AC-Charging costs me €0,29 and it takes overnight to charge it completely, about 2,5 kWh per hour, so generally 15 hours.
DC-charging goes at about 30kW and mostly costs here €0,69.
I'm completely satisfied with this car, because I don't drive very long distances. Sometimes I drive 300 kms a day. 30 minutes of DC-charging does the job to bring me back home.
Hi Jane thank you very much for your comment from NL, and the information which is very useful to me as an e-UP! owner. I just love the car and it is so nippy around town. I tried to translate 'nippy' into Dutch and Google says nijdig but I think this is nippy like chilly but I mean nippy like very lively or quick off the line. 😁
I really enjoyed your rambling - very true and entertaining! Great analogy - smartphones equals modern cars (ICE-cars will follow that route soon I guess)
Thanks
Hi from Turkey. Thanks for offering your real experience.
Thank you - I'm pleased my video has views worldwide. Cheers
Good post. I had a Tesla linked to a Ohme, which uses the phone network. Never had a problem all the time I had the Tesla, charged nightly without fault. Just have to get used to the Tesla and Ohme apps, that took a few weeks. I don’t have the ev anymore but that’s nothing to do with ev ownership which is excellent.
Hello Paul. Thank you for the interesting and informative “chat” about the real life experience of charging an EV. I am currently “wobbling” on “the fence” as to whether our next new car is an EV. We are lucky that we can charge from home.
As I gracefully age I am increasingly in fear of technology overtaking me. Too often technology is presented to the end user without any thought whatsoever whether it’s “user friendly”. Oh my, I wish we could return to the 1970’s. 🥴
Thanks for the video Paul, i have had my EV for almost 3 years and done about 18k miles, I have had my Pod Point charger since i had the car. It does not connect with my Solar set up and can cause my home battery to drain if I don’t set it up correctly. If i had the opportunity again i would have a Zappi home charger which connects with the solar/battery set up and also configures with Octopus Intelligent Go. If you set up your own schedule through the car then Octopus will change you to Go rather than Intelligent Go as they like to control as and when you charge. I always set up my home charging to correspond with my EV charging to make sure it doesn’t drain my home battery trying to charge the car. Octopus has been very good in helping me to save a lot of money. Intelligent Go is such a cheap rate although i can see that Eon Next are moving into this field with a cheaper rate at the moment.
By the way EV Man on TH-cam has a Seat MI (same as the E Up) and has done a few videos on this excellent car.
Hi Lee, so far I have only charged my EV at night. During the night I set my home battery to charge from the grid, and so it will not discharge into the car. If I get a Givenergy charger it will work with my Givenergy inverter and battery so I will not need to pause the battery manually if I charge the car during the day. We have some heavy-load electrical equipment that runs 7 hours at night in the colder months hence I need Economy 7. I don't think I'd switch to Intelligent Octopus Go if it provides cheap energy for less than 7 hours or unpredictably. And I'm not going to be a heavy EV user (minimising the cost of EV charging is not the primary consideration for us). We could switch tariff twice a year but honestly I can't be bothered for the sake of a few quid. Cheers
Your video gave me a number of chuckles! I've been driving EV's for just short of 5 years, I've had a smart wall charger from the outset, there was a government incentive at the time I bought it. I quickly discovered that using its smart features was not necessarily a 'smart' thing to do. The car and charger were more than capable of getting their wires crossed! Public charging, a couple of experiences of public charging. My first was Pod Point at Tescos, at that time free to use, you needed the Pod Point app, having plugged in you used the app to tell the system the name of the charger you were plugged into an off it went. Next time I used a Pod Point charger, different location, no mobile signal equals no charging. Most recently Shell recharge in a Shell filling station. Two charge stations one has been out of use for over a year. The good bit is that it's tap and go using either debit or credit card. Didn't like my Debit card and two out of three credit cards I tried, fortunately it accepted the last one. Finally rates of charge. My wall charger is capable of 7.5 Kw. My first car displayed the rate of charge on the screen. It varied all the time, from 2 or 3 Kw up to around 7kw, this is apparently normal.
Hi Martin your public charging stories made me laugh and I'm sure many EV drivers will be saying "yeh, been there done that" ,😁
Yah, I got two stories on "smart" charging. My Dad (80 yrs old) has a BMW i3, I have an ID.4. My dad had the timer setup in the i3 to only charge after 9pm which means that whenever he needed to charge elsewhere he had to override it. He would forget every once in a while.
I, on the other-hand, have a "dumb" EVSE and I don't use any of the vehicle's timer options. When I plug in, the vehicle starts charging immediately without me having to raise a finger outside of plugging it in.
I'm sticking with the "dumb" mode.
-Matt
I found your video very informative sir, I watch the fully charged youtude channel, they run expos in the uk, canada and australia, every year. Watching their channel has never given me as much info as your video did just then, keep up this great work, because if it wasn’t for people like you we would all be lost.
Regards Dean in the UK
Hi Dean, I went to Everything Electric (North) in Harrogate. I had a back seat ride in a Great Wall Ora (Funky Cat) and it opened my eyes. I wanted an EV but not wanting to 'go big' I went cheap(ish) and small with the e-UP. Cheers
makes me more positive about the prospect of owning and coping with an EV. I Ilike VW's (i've a 74 THING and a 97 JETTA) I know the faster charge rates take a toll on battery life due to the heat cycles of charge/discharge so patience pays a literal dividend on your investment. also planning on exclusively storing it outdoors due to obvious lithium issues.
Hi TheKubelman, mine will be in a carport. I tried to find out what battery chemistry is in the 2020 e-UP! but failed. I know it is Lithium-Ion but what type??? I suspect just plain Lithium Ion - not LFPO or some other variant. I don't know where VW are going with smaller EVs now the e-UP! has been discontinued. There was talk of an ID2 but not sure if anything is happening ..... Cheers
I have the petrol version and put about £10 in fuel every 3 weeks which is ideal for me. I was a truck driver and just wanted a small practical vehicle to use for my shopping as I live in the countryside. The smallness of the VW Up is ideal for small country lanes and the road holding is superb. What a lot of people fail to realise is that the big 4x4s can turn over easily even at slow speed and that they need to be very careful on country lanes. Prince Philip found that out at a junction when he turned his over. Happy days.
Well I’m only at @8:30 but I’d hazard a guess it’s nothing to do with needing a smart charger.
I’d say it’s probably that the cable which came with your e-up is a 3 phase 16A cable, not a 32A
From memory the “charger” wall unit figures out what the capability of the cable is based on the resistance on the pilot pin in the type 2 plug. An added resistor changes how the unit senses what the amp limit is.
If you’ve used your friends type 2 cable instead of your own, that’s why it is now higher.
Hiya Salibaba, yes I see your logic but I used my own 32A cable in both cases. There is a chance that the electrician who installed the 'dumb' charger configured it to 16A (I checked it was on a 40A breaker) but my friend swears his car charges quickly (even though he did not have the figure as hard data). Cheers.
I chose to keep home charging very simple and a much cheaper installation, single phase 32 Amp commando socket and a suitable charging lead total cost £220. The lead has some clever stuff that I never use, just plug in and switch on with a real switch. I can adjust the % level of charge in the car app or in the car to stop the charge or just use the switch and unplug, simple and no connection issues with the charger at least. Delivers 7.4kw this slows down towards 100% the last few % if required and I assume this would happen with most cars. Keep rambling
In terms of transition I think we forget how long the existing ICE cars are going to be around. People will be buying new ICE cars in the UK at least until 20230/5. There is every reason to expect that those cars will be on the road for about 15 years and quite a few for 20 years. This means that even though the expansion of public charging suitable for people without off-street solutions has been quite slow to evolve there's little reason to panic! There are still lots of potential customers who do have access to home charging and for whom EV ownership can be an attractive option. So we could have up to 25 years to make it readily accessible for all! In reality I suspect that once the transition to EV becomes more "mainstream" there is likely to be a much more rapid adoption so will take place much sooner than that 25 years... but that's speculation of course.
good video paul
At the start of this year, the ship I work on was in drydock in Rotterdam for maintenance. In the dock next to us was the utterly gutted burned out hulk of the car carrier Fremantle Highway. The vessel was so badly damaged by fire that the hull plates had bowed due to the intense heat. The ship was on fire off the coast of The Netherlands for over a week; it took that long for the Dutch authorities to extinguish the flames. The vessel was carrying electric cars and the battery of one of these had started the blaze. After seeing that ship, I never want an electric car!
I believe that the future lies in ICE vehicles powered by hydrogen, or electric cars utilising fuel cell technology, or some hybrid of both of these. Extremely well presented film Paul, thanks.
I think it will be a mixed economy Carl. I see that JCB are developing Hydrogen-powered IC engines for earth movers and other high-cycle machines. Basically the same bottom end and just mods to the head and injection systems. I agree that battery fires are hard to put out. But in terms of numbers, well many of us have seen petrol/gas car fires - they are not uncommon actually. Ask your local fire brigade. Cheers Paul
@@HaxbyShed most petrol/gas fires in cars are likely down to bad maintenance/service or component failure causing fuel leaks etc on hot exhaust manifolds not from batteries that catch fire because they can for no apparent reason.
@@campingstovemanNo I’m afraid you’re wrong. Brand new ICE cars can still catch fire even after sitting there on the drive not being driven. They are so complex now that fires are very common. EV battery fires are most likely to happen because the battery pack has suffered some trauma, but EV fires are very rare.
The Fremantle Highway story has been quite confused and distorted. The fire didn't start with an electric vehicle and neither was the severity of the fire the result of electric vehicles subsequently burning. I'll take the word of the company that salvaged the vessel: "salvage company Boskalis said that the EVs appear to be in good condition. Peter Berdowski, CEO, Boskalis Salvage Company told local Dutch press that the 500 EVs are among the 1,000 vehicles that “seem to be in good condition” and are “perfectly movable”.
@@MrAdopado You say "confused and Distorted" , but then go on to say what you believe to be the truth!
We have a Kia EV6 here in OZ and it can (confirmed by testing) charge at 233KW between 20% ~ 80%. So if the Infrastructure would be there then fast charging of just 15 ~ 20 minutes are entirely possible. I fully agree...everywhere that I have seen in the majority of countries, this capable Infrastructure is another 20 years away. the funny part is that high capacity/high charging speed vehicles will be the norm in less then 10 years. So it's not the EV and battery technology that is the problem, it's our electricity grids that are way behind.
A very interesting video, as always.
Earlier this week I filled in an IPSOS survey conducted by the Ministry of Transport. One of the questions was "how far away is your nearest public charger?".
Both of our cars are still ICE so I had to think fairly carefully from visual memory. In the end, I figured that it was the worst case option : 10 miles or more (where there are four chargers, I think).
Admittedly, we live in a rural area and a reasonable percentage of people have off street parking, but what about the rest? A significant proportion of properties that I pass frequently are small, old terraced cottages, often in conservation areas and councils forbid on street charging. Now, I don't live in a "two horse town". Our village has 1000 inhabitants and is fairly typical of what is around here.
It is also noticeable that the proportion of new cars owned by people in rural communities is far lower than what I used to see when we lived in a large city. People don't attach status to vehicles in the same way that I used to see in the city. Plus, on poor pay, so many in the countryside simply cannot afford to buy or lease a new car, especially with the horrendous depreciation that electric vehicles currently enjoy.
I can't blame charger installation companies for avoiding rural locations and focusing upon built up areas - why wouldn't they maximise their usage capability?
So, I feel that adoption of electric vehicles in rural locations will be very slow, probably much slower than in more densely populated areas.
As for us - we have two ICE cars, both five years old and in decent condition. Neither car is driven far each year and both are something of an indulgence. We have no motivation to buy electric even though we have plenty of off street parking. The cost to change is simply too high.
I live in a very rural part of the UK and would just comment that EV ownership over the past 5+ years has been excellent from a practicality point of view ... our nearest petrol stations depending on direction are 19 miles or 18 miles, so it's a breeze to be able to routinely plug in at home! Our nearest (large) supermarkets in a sizeable town require about a 50 miles round trip. When we use the car it isn't just for a 5 or 6 mile jaunt. I always have the car plugged in at home and have set the car to always routinely charge to 75% overnight and that gives me more than enough miles for the following day. I choose that percentage to optimise battery health as I intend to keep it a long time. We have family in other parts of the UK and have driven pretty much the length and breadth of the country without restriction ... though it is worth doing a little pre-planning if going "off-piste"! (Due to the initial business lease periods for EVs bought new now coming to an end there has been a flood of great value EVs onto the market for those that are interested.)
This is where Tesla make the whole thing very different. I think I've only needed to use a non-Tesla charger twice in all my travels on holidays etc. The Tesla chargers pump in 600 miles an hour and are always available. The infrastructure will get there. Just got to get rid of all the useless slow chargers dotted about in supermarket car parks. These are rubbish. Tesla, Mer, Instavolt are brilliant.
Hi Paul, I get a new Mini EV through work and charge overnight on an Octopus Low EV rate on the supplied wall charger. All works for me and I use the car everyday on a 40 mile round trip to work and back. I did come across the British company My Energy who seem to make great products made here in the UK.
PS the Beason mill is now finished 😊 just need to find time to make a TH-cam video to show finished product.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Last year moved to a new apartment. New build apartments have by law to provide charging facilities. So far the one here is not yet working but we have public 7 kw chargers only a quarter-mile away so not a problem. The fast charging situation has improved massively over the last couple of years but sadly our area has not yet caught up.
I got an Chevrolet Bolt EV because it's the most efficient way to get around town for the journeys we do.
4 miles/kWh, and we pay 10c/kWh for electricity - except we generate our own solar. That's 2.5c/mile, and we can improve on that 4miles/kWh with careful driving.
The most efficient hybrid, a Prius, gets 70mpg. For that to work out cheaper, gas would need to be $1.70 a US gallon. It isn't.
Well, EVs will replace ICE, there is no question about that. It was obvious a decade ago, in fact. And your own experience puts an exclamation mark on why. Technology only moves forward. Things only improve. Battery capacities only increase, charge rates will continue to increase. Infrastructure will continue to scale. And we aren't talking a slow pace here. These things are progressing very quickly world-wide.
The car itself should tell you how fast it is charging. Usually it will be on the display as the number of miles per hour the car is charging at. I would prefer a kW display myself, but it's easy to determine from the miles-per-hour of charging. This is another avenue where older technologies were a bit clunky but new ones are not. My VW ID.4 for example, I just plug it in to my home EVSE and it starts charging immediately. No buttons have to be pressed, no nothing. I just plug it in and head inside. I've never encountered any situation where it wouldn't charge, at home, at a friend's house, with a portable EVSE, or even at the few fast DC chargers I've used. It always charges.
But you know, it doesn't really matter how fast it is charging at home. You just plug it in and the next morning its at 100% Literally.
So there we have a good example of just technological advancement solving a lot of these insecurities and clunky issues.
EV ranges are now 200+ miles (300+ for Teslas). In a few years it will be 400+ miles (some EVs already have that much). There are already rumors of 1000+ miles. Once you get past a certain point the range exceeds what any sane person is willing to drive in a day even when taking a long trip. And the more range a vehicle has, the less often you have to charge or worry about charging. It becomes less of a problem.
The difference between a vehicle with a 50 mile battery and a 100 mile battery is night and day. And the difference between a vehicle with a 100 mile battery and a 200 mile battery is night and day. This kind of progress, alone, spells doom for gasoline.
But it is up to governments to recognize what is happening and support it, which the U.K. isn't really doing a good job at doing. Even here in the U.S. only a few states are really heavily pushing EVs. 25% of all passenger car sales in California are EVs now (PHEVs and BEVs... mostly BEVs).
Unfortunately, politicization of electric vehicles and renewable technologies has resulted in a slower than ideal adoption rate, and that has allowed China to get way ahead of us on the technologies (in China, 50%+ of new passenger vehicle sales are EVs now). For some reason a segment of the population seems to believe that its all just a big fairy tale, which is unfortunate, but that won't stop adoption. EVs are just too good and now that cost is crossing over the cost of an ICE vehicle (to the point where governments are imposing tariffs to try to slow down Chinese imports)... well, the writing is on the wall. Its either join up or be left behind.
-Matt
Thanks Matt. The e-UP! was an early EV launched in 2014, though my 2020 model is quite improved. It does not tell me how fast it is charging - it just tells me how many hours it will take and knowing the % battery state I can work out the charge rate. It does not matter - I chose the e-UP! for its retro features like analogue dials, the battery charge state is on an analogue 'fuel gauge' with a mechanical pointer. It's great!! In the UK the Government is always reluctant to invest public money in things like charging infrastructure - be it charge points or upgrades to our national electricity grid. We've cases of charge points waiting years for a grid connection. This is despite the UK Government being a very strong supporter of carbon neutral policies. The blah blah blah policy is just not backed up by leadership, action and cash. And if it's not any of them then it's Local Government planning delays and obstructions (what you might call County-level land development approvals). Cheers
We've got a Seat Mii, basically the same car (2021 model). I use the granny cable also but read the same stuff regarding the max charge rate. I asked the Seat dealer about it and they said there was no patch and that the car would only charge at 3.7K on a single phase so I was surprised when you said you got 7.4K on an intelligent charger, well worth knowing
Hi Bristolview, I'm reasonably sure the 2014 version would only charge at 3.7kW and came with a 16A charging cable. But it looks like from sometime around 2020 7.4kW charging is possible (with a 32A cable). I'm not sure of the exact reason - for sure you have to set the charge rate in the VW app to 32A but also I'm reasonably sure it depends on the wall charger too. The e-UP! does not actually display the charge rate in kW but does show the remaining charge time in hours and the battery % so from that you can work it out. But as you saw, it definitely charged at 7.2kW on this occasion on single phase with the intelligent wall charger. My dealer was no help either - they just don't know much about these models which did not sell in high volume. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed The VW app probably doesn't work with ours, there is some sort of app from Seat but it didn't look to do much so I haven't tried it
Hi in the ev charger there is a resistor the car can read this resistance and sets up the charge rate this is so the cable doesn't over heat
Hi dama, I saw that. Apparently the early e-UPs came with a 16A cable but mine came with a 32A cable - I guess that should have been a clue but of course VW don't tell you anything useful about that .... 🙄
Be aware when you’re looking at 7Kw chargers.
The car will loose connection at some point as it’s currently struggling on with 2G since 3G was turned off. To use intelligent Go it need the communication or a smart (recommended) charger.
GivEnergy are not there with the smart integration yet so I went elsewhere for now. I have the battery etc.
Hi Andy, yes I've spotted that potential bump in the road coming - it looks like VW Car-Net is built on 3G. Whilst UK OFCOM has agreed that 2G and 3G will shut down by 2033 in fact most operators are planning to close those networks very soon. Vodafone and EE have completed their 3G network switch offs already. Three(3) is expected to switch off its 3G network by the end of 2024 with VMO2 expected to follow in 2025. So the real question to be answered (discovered/proved) is whether VW saw this coming and put in a 4G e-sim in their later production runs. Of course they don't tell customers/owners anything so no doubt I will just find out in time. If the car still has a connection at the end of 2025 then maybe they did switch to 4G. If I lose the internet connection I can still set the charging timers etc on the Maps & More app on bluetooth within the car - for as long as they keep the app available. I think all later UPs (fuel and EV) use the M&M app, which has more than 100k downloads on Google Playstore so here's hoping. By the way, I think Gen 1 Smartmeters also use 3G for comms so they will be stuffed too. All that hot air about remotely upgrading SMETS1 meters to SMETS2 emulation ... just BS really. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed with all phones, they always have the possibility to drop down the range. As we are in 2g only now I think it’s likely to be a couple of years before it goes completely. Lots of stuff which was 3G has dropped onto the 2G network and they know it’s a risk to turn it off fully as it has the greatest range. No network wants to be without any signal when people need to rely on the network, it would be the worst marketing ever.
The 4G is poor and fully utilised now and 5g is a joke for range. The next generation 6G is just going to piggy back 4G.
VW knew the problem with 3G shut down and there is a couple of legal cases in the USA as 2G was disabled the same day.
The VW car really struggles with intelligent octopus as you only get 10 wake-up calls to the dash before the ignition needs cycled.
That's all really interesting stuff Andy thank you.
FWIW our MGZSEV charges on all type 2 HOME chargers BUT on some chargers it can take what feels like 2 mins to go through the connection process. We gave up at one of our friends place, started to walk away but left the car plug. Then it started charging much to our surprise.
*edited*
Hi ObieP, it's fine when you know that's what it does but for a new EV driver it's a bit worrying/confusing. There almost needs to be a 1 hour 'training' session with every EV sold. I suppose if you walk away before it starts charging then there is always the doubt weather it will have charged when you get back? On my app I can see if it is charging, if I have a signal on my phone (which is by no means guaranteed). Cheers
@@HaxbyShed I was only talking home chargers at friends. I’ll update what I said to reflect that.
I agree on the training session. We have found people vert helpful at charging stations.
I never understood why VW stopped making the one-up and its derivatives, great wee cars. We have had a zoe for three and a half years and haven't had any problems with public charging. The zoe happily charges on AC up to 42kw and DC to 50kw. Yes theres a learning curve.
Hi Graham I read a quote from VW that it stopped making the UP! class cars because they did not comply with some new EU cyber security directive coming in 2025 and (implied) it would be too expensive to make the models compliant. Perhaps some hostile intelligence service could hack into my car, take control of my lane assist camera and see my underpants on the washing line. National security risk .... or just not enough profit in them? Cheers
NOT "rambking" sir...excellent info video
The DC Instavolt charger on Clifton Moor is charging a van next to you, as you've already stated, so the amount you can charge will almost certainly be throttled back because of supply issues. The PodPoint chargers outside DFS, which are free at the moment, only output a maximum of 4kw, even though PodPoint say they are 7kw chargers. The main problem with any public charger is the supply. If the cabling to that area can not support the load, you won't get what the charger is built to be capable of.
Think of it as a product that is advertised as up to 100% effective. It could only be 50% effective and still be legal as 50% is up to 100%.
Useful local knowledge thanks John. It's part of getting used to EVs - this uncertainty of charge delivery. What annoys me (in a minor way) is you plug in for up to 160kW at £0.79 per kWh but if it delivers 24kW you still pay £0.79 per kWh. That said even 7kW is likely to be £0.50 per kWh so it's not a linear scale anyway. And regular local users will have their preferences anyway (so it's maybe not such a big issue). Just interesting to know/learn that's how it is. Cheers
I use octopus with a 'dumb' 32A commando charger and they tell the car when it should draw current. I don't configure the car or the charger to manage the charging therefore no confusion - I just leave it to Octopus to turn it on when it's cheap. It relies upon the car's own 4g internet connection and for me it works well. (Id.3)
The charge current should stop before the main pins disengage if you pull the plug out hot.
For proper uptake, they need to enable flat dwellers to access night time rates. Without this there's no incentive.
Very interesting Paul, Watched and listened all the way through.
The number of factors you need to consider to know if an EV makes sense for one’s usage, is rather daunting to say the least.
Here in California they’re now considering a per mile tax to cover road maintenance that was normally covered by fuel tax. Something else to throw in the mix.
Great info thanks for sharing
Cheers…….
Hi Dean after many years of near zero road tax on low pollution cars (both fuel and EV) from next April the 'green' road tax benefits disappear for cars registered after 2017. I'm waiting to hear what the tax on my EV will be. Cheers
They need to! The cars weigh twice as much as an ICE vehicle and the roads are paid for with fuel tax money. How they are going to figure your usage is anyone's guess.
@@jagboy69 Did you see the car in this video? 1235kg (2723lbs). My own EV is about the size of a BMW M2 and weighs slightly less than that car. Yes there are huge heavy SUV style EVs but there are huge heavy ICE vehicles too!
Note that what California appears to be moving towards is a mileage tax on ALL vehicles to replace the old "gas" tax. It won't be an EV-only thing at the end.
@@MrAdopado 2700lbs is VERY heavy for something the size of a shoebox! I've got a mid sized 4door that weighs 2700lbs.
Mine started charging at 7.4 (up from 3.7) after several months once I had fiddled with the max charging current in the seat mii app. It started immediately after fiddling so I’m certain that’s it. Seat dealership could not sort it or give any useful information.
Hi Darren, well it is possible that was the 'fix' for mine as I was trying several things around that time. The first charger I tried 'is in the family' so I could easily try it again on the same charger sometime for curiosity. I asked two VW main dealers about charging rates with the same result - they did not know. Cheers
DC fast charging speeds may be affected by:
- cold battery
- hot battery
- battery too full
- other ev charging at same charger or even a few chargers away that share the max speed
- charger itself is too hot
- charger is faulty
So yeah, many reasons why this could be.
Thank you ventsilev, I will try DC charging again soon at the same place when there are no other vehicles on charge. It's not critical for me, I'm just experimenting to learn. Cheers
G’day Paul. I trust you’re enjoying your new electric vehicle. Personally I don’t think electric ⚡️ will ever replace ICE, but they are getting a market share. I recently purchased a Riese & Müller German e-bike. I love it and ride whenever possible. Cheers 🍻 Aaron
ICE will eventually fade into history. We will eventually reach point where petrol stations begin closing, and fuel becomes less easy to find and buy. Shell UK already have outline plans to cut production of petrol and diesel by up to 40% by 2030, if it becomes necessary. Details were in a previous Shell business report...
I'm sure that's what horse owners said when the first ice cars arrived.
Now the only horses are either used for competing or leisure. (Not counting the Amish of course) 🙂
Very informative video I like the VW e up can you tell me the dimensions of the boot. Thanks
Hi Stephen, at the boot lip level it is 950mm side to side and 400mm front to back. It is 600mm from the boot floor to the parcel shelf. As you can imagine it comes in a little at the back corners and also the seats slope back into the boot so it is a bit narrower towards the top but I think I've given a fair description. You can get quite a few shopping bags in there side by side. Cheers
The car can cope with 7kw,
The AC cables are dumb, they have a resistance in each head, when connected in either end they measure the resistance and feed it back to the charger to send power to the car.
This can catch people out when they use an older cable.
Only DC uses intelligent communication as it’s the charger which controls the dc charge voltage.
The E-up really struggled with DC charging. The Egolf was more stable for DC charging.
HI Andy, I knew about the resistor in the AC charging cable (discovered during my research). But I did not know that only DC uses intelligent communication - thanks. Cheers
Very useful information, if rather off-putting. Looks like best to go to sleep for ten years and see how things develop! Why does charger need to talk to the internet if you have a smart meter? I see Ovo Anytime requires a smart meter, which I don't have as I have 3-phase.
Hi Samuel, a couple of reasons for the wall charger to talk to the internet. Firstly they are programmable but there is usually no local display - you program it through the app over the internet. Secondly intelligent tariffs take direct control of the charger over the internet. So for example Octopus intelligent Go decides when the car will charge ( a combination of demand management and lowest tariff) and instructs the charge to start and stop to complete the charge by the set departure time. Technically there might be several charge sessions in a night as the tariff or demand fluctuates. Science fiction = science fact. You will be alright with your 3 phase home charging at up to 22kW. Cheers
The first thing to understand is that using AC, the charger is actually in the car. That car onboard charger converts AC to DC that is then put into the battery. The unit fixed to the wall is NOT the charger. I know that everybody calls it a charger but it's not. It's just a fancy switch that checks safety before it allows the current to flow. As you say, there is a communication to negotiate the rate of charge that can be accepted. But the wall-box, and/or the cable, may only be able to send at lower rate than the car is able to take. So that low rate is what happens. Much like the weakest link in a chain sets the most strain level.
Thank you Hitstirrer, yes I have some electrical background myself and I know you are correct technically. It just confuses things when all the wall power supplies are marketed as 'chargers'. Wall supply units (aka chargers) need DNO approval (so I read) and are commonly not permitted on linked supplies, where the house supply is looped to several houses like on a terrace row. Hmmm I wonder how many chargers are installed without DNO approval .... I've no idea. Cheers
You can usually stop charging from either the charger or the car.
The EVs I work on will let you by pass the programed charge schedule by plugging in the cable the quickly unplugging in, and then plugging it back in. You don't need to do anything. That way, anytime we service a vehicle, we can charge it for a customer without even getting into the vehicle.
You can compare it to the early car market, most people either walked, or used a horse, and there was this thing called a train. The first cars you had to go to the chemist to get white spirit to run it, not hay, which had dedicated stores that supplied it, and whole industries that grew it, processed it and transported it to places, where you got it. now you have a new EV, which has the same limited infrastructure, and few places that supply it in a fast way, while the existing ICE has the equivalent to hay everywhere. Soon enough this will change, the ICE and EV will have combined charging and fuel stations, and you will get more EV charging, and people will adapt to the EV market, just like you did to the change from a fixed land line, and having to be home to answer it, to having a mobile phone that is almost always with you.
Problem is the set up costs are very high having to pay the very high price for wall box installation the prices are dropping for used Ev,s which is good it’s a start but there is a very long way to go before I invest heavily into an EV
Hi Anthony, I'm having my wall box installed tomorrow. It's costing 10% of what I paid for the car, because of other works required to get the 32A capacity into my carport. I could keep charging from the 13A socket but I want to charge from my home battery, or solar or grid as one integrated system. It an indulgence not financially justified to be honest, but I like tech things. Saying that, if I can get onto Intelligent Octopus Go the EV charger will start to pay for itself. Cheers
When not will
I presume you have heard that diesel sales in and around London have dropped by 40% already it's coming quicker than we think.
all i can say about the of the uk car charging process is HS2
What, you think it's going to cost me £350m a mile to get from the middle of nowhere to the middle of nowhere? Great value, I can't see the problem :-)
@@HaxbyShed an when you get there they wont have built the charging station
They will take over; Norway is a good example if where we are headed, they are already at over 90% of new cars are EV. Keep in mind the e-up while is a brilliant little EV is very modest compared to modern EVs that typically have 250 miles of daily range and a decently fast rapid charging rate (the best can add 100 miles in 10 mins).
Mark, thanks I had a look at this. Norway has around 27,500 publicly accessible EV chargers and about 2.9 million cars. So that's 105 cars per public charger. UK has about 53,000 publicly accessible charges and about 41.4 million cars. So to get to the same density of chargers per car as Norway we need about 340,000 more chargers, or about 6.5 times what we have now. Furthermore the AI chatbot tells me that 94% of Norwegians are able to charge at home compared to just 54% of Brits. Now there will be more complex factors and differences that my 'fag packet' calculation overlooks but clearly we have a lot to do to get to the same position as Norway. Cheers Paul
@@HaxbyShed The big difference between the UK and Norway is the governmental approach to the transition. Ours has been half-hearted to say the least!
Public charging infrastructure is not really a show-stopper. The real end-game for EV charging will always be destination / home / parking-lot / parking-slot L2 charging. "Destination charging" for short. That has always been the end-game. And the reason is simply because that is all that is needed as EV range continues to increase. That's the end-game.
It is a steep learning curve. Videos like this helps, many thanks! But you are partly wrong about the communication between an EV an a home or AC charger. There is very little information exchanged in this case. One signal says car/charger is present. One informs the other part how much power it can take/provide. And thats it. And as you point out, it is very easy to mix things up and have the car settings and the charger settings not cooperate. Also, the charge rate you get can depend on the charge cable you use. The cables look about the same, but one can only handle for example 1 phase 16A, another 3 phase 32A, and so on. It is not easy to get it all right.
Hi Martin, thanks for the comment. It's looking increasingly likely my problem with the first wall charger was the charging current limit set in the car app. I can't be certain until I go back to my friend's and try it again. One person commented that their VW e-UP (Citigo, mii) arrived with the charging limit set at 5 Amps! Soon corrected once you know, but there are absolutely no instructions with the App, so it's all self-learning by experiment. Now I understand that there is minimal negotiation for AC charging but it's still not instant when you press the 'immediate charge' button in the car. Immediate charge is the alternative to timed charge but nothing actually explains that - and both immediate and timed have their own separate settable charge rates. After pressing the button there are a few seconds of delay as sensors sense and relays click over and charging actually starts. But I'm still loving the car 🚗. Cheers
Can you imagine spending such a lot of time and effort on a petrol car, talking about filling it up, and how some garages were faster than others? Its comparing the quality of pigs ears.
Hi Steve, very true about the complexity. So why would the general public buy EVs? For most people it comes down to cost - if/when they are much cheaper they will. Even a small price advantage can make a big difference to uptake. Cheers
Electric transport propulsion was buried by fossil fuel, decades ago, due to cost and ease of production/labour skill of society and business greed for the immediate .... now we are paying for it, especially our kids, lets hope the prehistoric supply network and driver education really wakes up, without being told to do so, by governments ... Mars won't save us !?
Tried to buy one back in 2015/6. Vw actually tried to put me off and sell a petrol one, never went back, bought a Tesla- never going back 🙂. VW stealership 🤡🤡🤡
Hi Pollywollydo, it's strange how dealerships are incentivised/behave. For EVs in the UK I believe VW now contract direct with customers, with the dealerships just showrooms on commission. But I have it on good authority that the commissions on EVs pays well - as least as good as the dealership profit on the fuel cars. But I heard a salesman say "I'm not going to wreck my relationship with longstanding customers by selling them an EV that depreciates £20K as it drives out of the showroom". I'm afraid that VW have got that wrong - just watching on TH-cam today a whole raft of cheap small EVs are coming in 2025 and they are not all Chinese. Renault is doing quite well with some promising models lined up. The 2020 e-UP! like mine is still a bit behind on capability now but it's a lot better than the 2014 e-UP! which had half the battery size. It's a bit retro with analogue displays but that's what I wanted - I did not want a load of display screens. Cheers
amd all those layers are potential failure points, either petty or catastrophic
I dread to think what it will be like when everybody is forced to have one of these bb--dy things. There seems to be so many things that have not been considered. I can see the sense in having an EV in your case and probably mine too.
Hi Andy, I think part of the problem is that Governments set policy (sometimes not practically grounded) but then expect that companies working in collaboration will sort out the details. In reality companies are often not in a position, or it's not in their interests, to create a coherent solution design. Governments and standards bodies have to lead - but they so often don't, so the result is a mess. I saw it on the NHS National Programme for IT where for a couple of years Government was unwilling to do (resource and pay for) the high level system design and set standards but in the end they did and actually they did a very good job (but my goodness they resisted it for a long time). Smartmeters - I have a friend who was a national-level technical advisor who said from the outset they were making bad technical decisions and now we are paying for it. About 20% of Startmeters are dumb or won't connect to the network due to bad design choices. Cheers
You will never be forced to have one. If you don't want one, then you won't have to get one. Exactly in the same way now, that if you don't want a car, then you don't have to own one....
@@HaxbyShed Yes, our government really dropped the ball. To continue the sporting analogy ... if somebody doesn't set out the lines on the pitch and give you a set of rules it doesn't matter how capable the players are, they're just not going to be able to play a game.
One wonders why, when a mobile or tablet can negotiate charging fast or normal charging instantly upon being plugged in, these EVs seem to need additional interventions to do the same thing. Having to connect to the internet seems... interesting. I don't want to be reaching for tinfoil but would say why not just make it simple instead of overly complicated? There is a saying: Simplicity, the art of maximising on the work NOT done, is important.
Hi Redacted, the cars negotiate via the cable on the 'CP' terminal using serial Pulse Width Modulation. Sounds archaic to me. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Agreed and thanks for the information.
Welcome to the future. ICE cars are so rough and uncivilised aren't they? On the DC charger you were trying to charge it at too high state of charge. Just like filling a jug of water, if it is empty you start fillign it fast but as it fills up you ease off as it gets more and more full. All batteries do that whether they are iun cars or phones or whatever.
Smaller capacity batteries such as in the e-UP will be particularly prone to having the charge rate drop off.
Depends on the battery management software and the charging curve that vw have programmed. The colder and the fuller the battery, the slower it charges
Not sure about new E-up's, but I don't think they have active battery pack cooling, just air cooling, so Fast DC charging is never going to be "fast" under any circumstance for that vehicle.
@Junkerzn you are correct, it is just air cooling on these. I will do some more tests but I'm not concerned - I'm just interested to learn. Cheers
You have made many mistakes in this video. If we charge at 28 MPH and do 10,000 miles a year then we need to charge on average less than one hour a day.
I have had my Zappi II charger and Tesla Model 3 for almost 5 years as our only car. It becomes easy over time.
I think you will gain experience and confidence over time.
Hi Simon, I can't argue against your average. But it's like investing in the stock market. On average it will return 5% per annum, but on a single day you might lose 25% (if you sell). I don't anticipate any problem myself because I don't go far and I can always top up at home every night. But for people who cannot charge at home and have to wait their turn for a public charger every few days or so - and if it is slow AC .... for some people it will be an issue. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed You also implied that you cannot achieve a full recharge overnight. Well 28MPH for 12 hours is 336 miles. That is more than a full recharge on the vast majority of EVs.
@@SimonEllwood ah yes that's true technically of course but the context was on cheap rate electricity which is available between 4 and 7 hours a night in the UK. If I was making a long trip I'd charge it until it was full regardless of the hours and tariff but if I was just charging it to take it from empty to full (no long trip planned) then I may have to charge it in two cheap rate sessions over two nights. Charging at home on any tariff is still a lot cheaper than public charging but money is money 💰. I never meant I would not buy an EV because of that, because clearly I have. The big issue is availability of public chargers for people who can't charge at home - if anything that will delay mass adoption (after the prices come down). People quote Norway for 90% adoption but Norway has 6x more public chargers by ratio to cars and 94% of Norwegians can charge at home vs max 54% in the UK. Cheers
@@HaxbyShedYes with 7 hours of cheap rate at 28 MPH you can only do 70,000 miles of cheap motoring a year. If you go beyond 196miles on a lot of days of the year from your house then get three phase installed in your house. My father in law has three phase in his house.
i don't think i want one.
Hi, I'm sorry but you don't have a basic understanding of EV charging from a home charger. You don't just charge during the overnight hours, most tariffs you plug in your car and it charges up to the time you reqire the car whatever the time of day, and you only get charged the overnight price, depending on the grid load. So, for instance, you arrive home at 5pm and you plug in stating you need car by 9am next day at 100%, your supplier then woorks out charging times and grid load, and charges your car balancing everything, and you're only charged the overnight rate! I suggest you update your knowledge before making future videos. One other thing, battery technoloy is advancing fast and you can charge at ever increasing speeds, with ever increasing battery ranges, your VW eUp is quite an outdated EV to base your electric experiance from, as good as the eUp is it's now quite out of date....
Hi Tony, I think it's clear I'm not claiming to be any sort of authority on these things. The fact is most people will start with very limited knowledge and then figure it out (as indeed I am). I'm not aware of tariffs that will give cheap rate in the daytime but that's my lack of knowledge perhaps - do you mean Octopus Intelligent Go or if you know others can you share please so we can all learn and benefit? I know certain intelligent tariffs only work with certain chargers and certain cars. Octopus have a 'check your car compatibility' on their website. The e-UP! is compatible. [Just to add a bit more - you can only get a smart/intelligent tariff if you have a smart meter. To date only half of the rollout has been completed and about 20% of installed smart meters won't connect at present. Also in the North there are quite a lot of areas that can't get a signal - you probably know the way they connect in the North and South is different. But this is not briefing against EVs, it's just highlighting there is work to do to get to high levels of adoption.] Cheers
The purpose of electric cars is not to provide a more sustainable alternative to ice vehicles, because they’re clearly not. The purpose is to make personal transport unaffordable for the average person
I can't quite figure out what you state 'to make personal transport unaffordable', are you saying that EVs are to eliminate ICE cars or that the EVs are expensive to run, if the latter then that's a load of tosh, I've had my EV for 2 years now, charging at home @ 7kW costs me £3.80 for 7 hours at night giving a range of 245 miles, I'm a pensioner not on a full pension, so really pleased with my EV. There are a lot of AntiEVers out there, spreading misinformation for the hell of it....
You must be looking at the prices of new EVs. Instead look at used ones; even 1 or 2 year old examples are terrific value and pretty much all came with a 8 year warranty on the battery.
I don’t know why proper chargers ended up costing around £1000, my early (smart) Ohme charger (7kW) was £200 discounted from £250 via a deal with Octopus.
Please be aware granny charges are intended for occasional use. Yes you can use them as the only charger; I did daily for a couple of years but the 13-amp 3-pin socket and circuit back to the fuse board have to be up to it. 2.4kW is only 10 amps but the 13amp rating is aimed at normal appliances like a kettle that runs for 5 mins, not an EV running for multiple hours.
Montreal and error I found metal faced sockets were best at dispersing the heat.
Please be aware granny charges are intended for occasional use. Yes you can use them as the only charger; I did daily for a couple of years but the 13-amp 3-pin socket and circuit back to the fuse board have to be up to it. 2.4kW is only 10 amps but the 13amp rating is aimed at normal appliances like a kettle that runs for 5 mins, not an EV running for multiple hours.
Montreal and error I found metal faced sockets were best at dispersing the heat.
Hi Paul, glad you're enjoying your EV. Some great information you shared with us.
The worrying thing is, you mention about getting the charger to start and the hand shake it does with communicating with the energy supplier.
There's already talk that once EV's are more common and get a good foot hold Government will step in and begin forcing energy suppliers to throttle/prevent us from charging when congestion is high to reduce traffic on the roads!
Regards
Kevin
Kevin, please take your tin foil hat off please.
Still far too lacking in intuitive user friendliness for my liking. There is a lot that needs to improve before I would be persuaded to consider owning an EV.
Hi Howard, not too bad if you normally charge at home, you feel a bit more in control. Imagine the future when your AI assistant says "you are hungry Howard, please eat this now" 😱
I think you need to watch a few youtube videos about EVs, you appear to lack the basic knowledge
Well in a way that's the point. I've worked all my career in electrical engineering, IT and telco and consider myself pretty tech savvy. And I've watched many videos on EVs. But I find my self still on a steep learning curve when it comes to the practical aspects. I mean, if you press the charge button you kinda expect it to charge not sit there for minutes whilst it decides. How would I know if that is a feature or a fault? Nothing tells you except hands on practical experience. Cheers