I have a Toyota BZ4X and have been happily driving it for nearly a year. I do love driving it but I discover something new everyday and I have been battling with heating car recently so this video is useful.. My thought is driving an EV is nothing like driving a conventional fuel car. It is like driving a computer and therefore would have like some in service training from the dealer about how to drive the car efficiently in all weather conditions, how everything works etc.. You pick up the car, they give you about 5 minutes showing you have to start it etc. and off you go and spend next year learning all about it with TH-cam google etc.
I’ll give you a real world example. At around the same time you made this video I had a power cut the evening before I was to do a 33 mile journey on a hilly rural road. The power was still off the following morning and my diesel car had less than half a tank of fuel. It started first time a the interior , including the seats were warm within a couple of minutes. Halfway to my destination the road was blocked with snow and vehicles. I waited almost 4 hours on the top of a hill in my warm and comfortable diesel with the engine running. I’d have had serious problems if I’d been driving an EV.
My EV is outside and has not been charged since Thursday but still has enough in the battery to cover 100 miles, what you are saying is if you run it to flat and have a power cut you are screwed isn't this like running your diesel to empty and finding all the fuel stations closed due to a power outage? Your logic is flawed without electricity neither an EV petrol or diesel will be able to refuel.
@ my point is completely valid. If I’d been travelling in an EV with half a charge I would probably not have made it, I would , at best , been stuck on a freezing hillside for several hours unable to keep warm. Taking your scenario where pumps had also not been working, I would still have been able to make the return trip without refilling.
Love the pre-conditioning in my diesel 2023 LR Defender, works from the LR app exactly the same as the pre-conditioning in my 2024 electric Mini Countryman S E…………. Heated front and rear screens , mirrors, seats and steering wheel too - Countryman doesn’t have the heated front screen. One thing I’ve wondered though with the Countryman is should I also force a manual HV battery condition cycle as well as the cabin preconditioning before driving away on a cold morning to help it work more efficiently One problem I’ve found in heavy snow in both cars though is the lack of heat generated by the LED headlights and no headlamp washer jets means the headlights get dimmer and dimmer with salt spray and snow/slush build up on the lamp fairings.
@@Gazer75I have no problem, but my lights have halogen and have sloped glass so the wind blows the slush and snow off. No one should use LED head lamps with vertical glass in snowy conditions. A terrible design on a lot of EVs.
Driving an EV is a completely different experience, one which I prefer. Not yet used Pre-conditioning as my journeys are generally short and the car warms very quickly. I charge at home and overnight. I am charging once a week, but might take it up to twice. Range isn’t a problem
Pre-conditioned on the way to Hartshead Moor East bound today....got there and all 6 Tesla chargers were in use !, never seen that before we actually had to wait almost 10 minutes before one came available as we were 2nd in the queue. Oddly enough the stack of Applegreen and the Gridserve chargers were just about all free, I guess no-one wants to pay their eye-watering prices, happy to wait !
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657 lol, it is common, especially if the petrol station offers the cheapest petrol & diesel price in that area compared with their rivals.
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657 For the legacy drivers, Diesel and Petrol there's often quite long queues at the supermarket fuel stations as its a few pence cheaper than the likes of Shell and BP plus supermarkets often offer 10p off a litre which has them queuing out onto the road !
With cars that don't have proper battery pre-conditioning (my wife's e208 for example), we have found that it is worth plugging in for maybe 30-60 mins before you leave to give it a final bit of charge - with the result the battery charging at nearly full heats up the battery cells. You can also turn on the cabin heating since this will pull power from the battery which is being charged from the mains if the battery is already full.
We have an e208 and do the same, program the cabin heater to come on in the morning while it’s plugged in charging, nice and toasty and defrosted when you get in. Doesn’t use the battery range up. Not as good as a Tesla but works fine in the winter.
I love the preconditioning in my EV. Haven't scraped or got into a cold car first thing in the morning since getting my EV. Never going back to mechanical piston cars.
Evening Dave My Volvo EX30 extended range stats 295 miles full battery? I've charged it & max is 230 miles?in this cold weather ?I use the app to defrost? Taking 15 minutes ?It takes around 3 mile off battery doing this ? Great video 🎉
Seen a few people out who didn't sweep the snow off their car, possibly not remembering that there is no engine under the bonnet to clear the snow. Definitely liked turning on the climate control and heated window from the phone app so that the car was warm and windows defrosted.
Thanks, my car does 300 in Summer and 250 in Winter, when it costs just 2p/mile in electricity , who cares, just use your car normally, unless you really need your maximum range. Even if you lose say 2000 miles of range over Winter, most users won't, then £40 extra is not worth worrying about. Yes all good tips, all cars lose range because cold air is denser and the drag equation shows drag is directly proportional to air density.
Starting my first winter with the Tesla M3 RWD, noticed on Sunday preconditioning used 16 miles of consumption before arriving at Kings Lynn Superchargers.
Having a Niro EV, heating the before travelling is truly welcome when cold and frosty, sadly, we can't pre-condition the battery (I believe an issue for all Kia vehicles), it's been a frustration for some time and no one know why this feature has not been made available yet. The other issue is Tesla chargers are not recognised by the Kia satnav so putting a location in doesn't trigger the pre-heat, instead I have to find a close by charger which generally works (but not always!). Being a Niro driver, I clearly wait for a charge for longer due to the limits, but it's not much of a difference I've noticed. Some further advice: - Make sure your tyres are at the correct pressure, this can make quite a difference - Driver no more than 60mph, more efficient for an EV, going higher will reduce your distance - If you can and brave enough, tailgate a lorry, the aerodynamics again can make a major difference (works for all types of cars btw) Other significant impacts which are not within your control are the direction of the wind and if the road is wet, less friction when wet equals shorter distance, driving into a strong wind equals a shorter distance, again, this applies to all vehicles, not just EV. Finally, wrap up with plenty of clothing, if you have driving gloves, this helps. If you have a heat pump, it can take nearly 3KW of energy to begin with, this is then like to drop to between 500W and 1KW when the temperature is reached (and how hot you want it to be), you 'may' find it better to switch the heating off and only when really cold, switch if back on again, not sure this is the most efficient method, quite difficult to test.
Loving the pre-heat in the morning 22T3SR+. Usually turn it on about 10mins before jumping in the car. Noted 2% more battery usage than usual on a 35mile mostly motorway @ 0degrees snow and ice 😃. Left heater at 20.5 and seat on 1bar.
I own a petrol hybrid Toyota and I have an app that switches the car on from my phone so when I go out and jump in my car 15 min later it’s warm and defrosted so you don’t need a full electric car to remote car pre-climate condition your car Dave.
The ones that can do it sure. Lots of EVs have a pretty bad system for this. Some can't do any preconditioning, others might do it if you navigate to a charger. Some have a manual option, but not an automatic system. Some EVs rely on the heatpump to do it and if its overloaded cooling/heating the cabin it can't do the battery as well.
@@martinmorgan9 Some people have used "Winter Mode" to help heat the batteries up. It may have been added by a software update as some posts I have looked at talk about it working if you navigate to a charger. So this would not be on the lower spec Kia E Niro as no Navigation. I had a 4+ and loved all the extra gadgets and the heat pump. For info In the summer months I could get 260 miles and 210 in the winter. The winter one was 3 adults and 3 23kg bags plus hand luggage drove to manchester airport in freezing temps, left car for 2 weeks, then drove home in freezing temps. Completed 200 m iles and had 10-15 left in battery. A great car. Look at the 2023 models and check those, the "Niro EV". If finance means an older one you will be happy and can try the Winter Mode hack to pre heat. It really depends how often tyou will be Rapid Charging. Savings come from a cheap overnight rate and home charging.
Good advice Dave. I decided to follow your advice. I have a Ford Mustang Mach E which doesn’t appear to have the sophisticated battery management that the Tesla models have. Ford’s approach to pre-conditioning is to switch on the cabin temperature, heated seats and steering wheel. I charged the battery to 90% and was amazed to see the projected mileage increase for the initial part of the journey without any loss of battery percentage. I will now keep the heated steering wheel and seats on as you suggest to condition the battery throughout my Winter motoring.
Did you mention that when you pre-condition the car in the morning you should do it plugged -in so you're not using battery/range. It is also considered more efficient to keep yourself warm mostly with seat heating if you're on your own, only taking the edge off the cabin air temperature with the hvac.
I think this depends what kind of tariff you are on, I'd much rather use the battery that was charged at 7p/kWh rather than pull power from the grid at 26p/kWh. But if you have solar or battery storage then it makes sense to pre-condition whilst plugged in.
@@DJBaldPaulmy solar panels were covered in snow yesterday. I don’t mind paying 26p/kw as it’s still cheaper than a supercharger and I can precondition before leaving home.
Nice topic and good coverage on preconditioning. I am a non tesla owner and you have good points for EVs in general. Home charging over night does make EV ownership better no matter what season you are in even here in the US.
If you pre-condition before you arrive at charger, does that not drain more power from the battery before you get there, therefore meaning you need to replace more power which costs you the higher rate anyway? Only worth it if the power used for pre-conditioning is less than the extra power used at the charger, otherwise the only gain is the shorter stop time.
Depends on the market I guess. They probably look at the average temperature. Here in Norway people wouldn't buy cars without it so they come as standard these days. Heatpump is very efficient and smart if you get several months of -5 to +10C.
We lose at least 10% of our efficiency due to the increase in air density drag with cold air. In addition to that the transmission lubricants also cause significant losses at lower temperature. I see my average miles per kWh rise as I drive as the lubricants warm up.
I checked the before and after state of charge in my 2024 Mini Countryman S E yesterday when running a preconditioning cycle at -7C in Central Scotland. Dropped the HV battery SOC by 2% on a 65kWh HV battery so used less than 2kWh =6 or 7 miles range. That was used by the heat pump, heated front seats the heated steering wheel and the heated door mirrors.
@@timoliver8940ah ok interesting so no great loss then , I must say I have a diesel when in icy 'er indoors is kind enough to get all that ice off . So she will love an ev .
Mine's a 5 month old Citroen C4 and the range dropped like a stone on Thursday. I'll try the tip to do a bit of charging and cabin warming before leaving home to see if that helps.
You want snow,NE Scotland has had plenty.About 6 inches sitting on the ground outside.My Nokian winter tyres are brilliant,once I have cleared off the overnight snow.
Well no, you won't, because an ICE car uses heat from water in the car's cooling system, while at the same time wasting 70% of it's lost energy as heat....
@@Brian-om2hh If you can only use public chargers your EV will be doing ( pricewise ) about 15mpg, or 80 pence for every 3 miles... LOL The novelty value that initially sold an EV has worn off and sales are dropping off a cliff.... Trump will stop taxpayer subsidies for EV...
Not only is a cold battery the reason behind reduced miles/kWh but the air is significantly denser when it is cold. I've parked my EV is an integral garage with a minimum temperature of 15°C and yet I still struggled to get much above 4 miles/kWh on cold days. Doing the same journey on a warm day (>20°C) could get up to 5 miles/kWh at best. Leaving the car outside on a cold night means less than 3.5 miles/kWh for the same 15 minute journey.
A mostly correct story. Some extra points. EVERY car uses more energy driving in the cold. Not for heating or whatever reason. Simply because cold air...same atmospheric pressure...is denser (more heavy I could say...than warm air. This increses energy usage wehn driving at the same speed for pushing the air out of the way. My previous diesel car also used al lot more energy in winter than in summer (5 to 10% depending on how cold) Even with all these tips....the range will be less as in summer. At this moment I drive my ioniq 5 , heatpump in it....ca 380 km in winter on full battery and 445 in summer heat... WLTP range 430 km. This summer-winter difference is not much bigger as in my previous ICE cars. Of coarse I use preheating in winter . Next point... When you preheat your battery before charging the battery will be using its own energy for preheating. You arrive with less energy at the supercharger which means that you will buy more high priced energy when charging up to 80%. When arriving cold you'll buy expensive electricity to heat the battery but a little less for charging because you have more reserve in the battery. I prefer preheating the battery before arriving at a charger because it saves a lot of time. Also ...a good car will have active cooling OR warming during driving...depending on outside temperature and produced heat . The ioniq 5 will close all cooling in the winter from the battery which makes it less cold than when you drive a car without this diferences. When I make a longer travel I do not go more often to chargers as in summer...I only arrive with a little less energy in the battery in winter. And that is only at the first charging stop. Because the first fast charge increases the battery temp enough (up to 55 degrees celsius) for heating the cabin afterwards...not spoiling that energy...or keeping the battery warm enough (25 to 30 degrees celsius) for saving precious electricity on preheating the battery for next stop. My experience...11 years driving with (different) electric cars.
Load question re preconditioning... assuming the EV is plugged in, what sort of kW load is there and for how long? Um, 400W for say 30 mins for cabin and say 2kW for 30 mins for the battery?? I work on EV loads on LV and this sort of info is very useful for modelling.
Home charger is the limiting factor depending on how the EV do the preconditioning. Those are often up to 7kW, but can be as low as 3kW and as high as 11kW. My 2020 e-Golf have no temperature management for the HV battery, but will use a 2-3kW heatpump to preheat the cabin. The heatpump runs on the HV battery and the fans on the 12V.
There is a third problem too: in the Winter the air is denser, and so the Coefficient of drag of the car is increased. It would be interesting to see actual figures for the Summer/Winter CdA difference.
Am new to ev and loving how how cheap it is to run being around 2p per mile much cheaper than my diesal car, this is very interesting now i only do a few miles to work maybe 4 or 5 and only charge at home , so should i precondition or not although great tip on the heating, only me in the car so probably better having the heated seat on than the heater on full blast
Unless it's really cold minus temp and you are going some distance then no. However pre heating the car does actually warm the battery up a bit though.
So if you can’t precondition your car while plugged in at home do you think you would get better range by just setting off and not using battery power or is it best to precondition it. Or I suppose how far do you have to be traveling for it to make a difference?
Car makers that do this should be sued tbh :P The most stupid thing ever to not be able to precondition or preheat when plugged in. Not really worth it if you're not going on a longer trip that also requires DC charging at some point.
The Niro has preconditioning but it doesn't have a manual override, so you can't precondition whilst sitting in your drive plugged in, only approaching a charging station, this applies to all Kia's, not sure about the rest but I believe it quite a common issue.
@@Un-ApologeticMeanwhile, running a car engine on the drive doesn't use any petrol does it? As you've already been advised, preconditioning and defrost when plugged in solves the problem you perceive.
According to my charger I can't charge between 8.00am and 11.00am so how do I warm up the car while it is on charge? Even if I disable this feature I will be using electricity at a peak time.
Change your charger programming, use the override and yes if you do that you'll be using electricity at the appropriate rate, whatever that is for you.
Not sure if it’s my imagination but my mg5 trophy seems to hold the heat in the car a lot more that my Toyota hybrid did . My wife thinks so too can’t be imagining it if for once we both agree lol😂
No better feeling than waking up in the morning, and looking out of my window to see the cars frozen over. I get back into bed and turn on the conditioning on my Ioniq 6 :D 20 mins later it is all warm in side and no ice on the car.
I don't know where the chart is, but there is a negative affect at colder and hotter outside temperatures on the batteries if the state of charge (SOC) is below 20% or above 50%. I am lucky as I can charge at home before my daily commutes. So I set the maximum SOC to 50% to be attained by 7:30am, and have my Tesla preconditioned by 7:30. If I know I am going to be driving further than my 30 miles round trip daily commute I increase my maximum SOC as a one off charging limit. And if I need to take my batteries to a high SOC say 95 or even 100% (I don't have LFP batteries so I am not supposed to charge this high regularly) then again I use my app to schedule the full charge to finish at my time of departure. Because it is not good for the batteries to sit at a high SOC. So basically hit hits 95 or 100% and I walk out of the house, disconnect, and depart. Now after saying all that, there are lots of Tesla owners who can not baby their car's battery and they make out just fine. Supercharging daily because they live in an apartment, unable to leave their vehicle always plugged in (I failed to mention that my car is always plugged in when home as that is also best practice), and unable to garage their cars to keep their car and batteries at a higher temp than when out on the cold street. I actually don't garage my car but rather park it in a carport, so it gets very cold when the temps drop to freezing or below. Just food for thought. And that is perhaps the point, educate yourself and then think before you do. Having an EV does require a little adaptation but so do gas vehicles. If I know I am going on a long trip with a gas car, I check to see if I should get the oil changed, fill the tank up the night before so I don't need to do it at start of trip, etc.
Preconditioned my Model 3 this morning while checking some emails and drinking a nice coffee. It was so nice to step into a car with warm seats, and clear screens after 40 years of letting ICE cars idle on the drive while you scraping the windows and waiting for the heater to warm up. I did this whilst it was still connected to the charger after an overnight charge. Car topped up the charge to 80% after defrost/precondition had taken place so I drove off with a warm battery charged to 80%.
Yes, jumped into my car this morning, it was like being in the Bahamas 🌞😁 24 degrees. I waved goid morning to my neighbour as she was stood in the freezing hail engulfed in toxic fumes whilst scraping the windows😂
Is idling a fossil not illegal in the UK? If people did that here I'm pretty sure the police would eventually show up and give you a fine. And why would you need to idle when there are block or coolant heater systems out there LOL. Much cheaper and better for the engine.
@@Gazer75 Apparently not, you often see cars on driveways idling away, same in parking lots or just at the side of the road whilst waiting for their little darlings to come out of school, mummy sits in massive SUV belching diesel and other toxic fumes over everyone and their kids !
Never had issue with a cold ICE car in winter. Anyone that care about their car in cold climate should use a block or coolant heater. These kits often also come with a timer and a small 12V charger to keep the battery in a good state. Even a cabin heater is an option. I've had a Defa system in all my cars except the last fossil, a diesel Golf. It was parked in an apartment garage where temps rarely got below freezing. And it also had a built in auxiliary diesel heater I could use if needed.
It’s a fair point, but as he explained towards the end of the video he ‘takes it on’, ie what he talks about is from real life experiences. So because he owns a Tesla he can really only give accurate findings and conclusions based on that car. I suspect that if he gives facts and figures about other EV manufacturers they would be based upon data that he has read about.
Good one Dave, this is my first winter as an EV owner and cold here in Hungary. Setting off through Austria and Germany tomorrow and snow is predicted. Some useful tips there I'm sure.
Just bought a BMW I3 in November. Use the BMW App to precondition the battery and cabin 30 minutes before departure. Easy peasy. If I at 77 can do it, anyone can.
That's because 70% of the energy paid for is gifted to the atmosphere as heat. In winter, it finally has some purpose! However, in winter, mpg is worse because cold air is denser, this requires more fuel to maintain a stochiometric ratio for combustion. ICE vehicles seek to mitigate it by having warm and cold air intake and a flap valve to select but it's still there, you just don't notice it as much. I've got ICE cars too though, still prefer a preheated EV every time. 😉
Your fine program has given me an idea - the need for winter battery heating possibly gives a lifeline for a limited use of hydrogen. As an alternative to EVs hydrogen has of course failed. However Toyota make a small hydrogen fuel cell “cassette”. This is intended to give hydrogen cars a little more portable range. But a much better use of those hydrogen cassettes is to use with an EV in cold weather, just to warm up the battery. Then you could warm up the big battery without losing a chunk of your EV range. In cold weather you could keep a couple of hydrogen fuel cell cassettes in the boot, to maintain normal range. Toyota should talk to the China EV chiefs about this.
Thanks Dave. My first winter with a tesla where I'll be in the french alps for 4 months where it will get to -20c and I can't charge at home there so its public charging. I'll be checking twice a week on the car and if the battery start to drop due to the cold, I'll be going to the supermarket chargers to top up. As others have said, the lack of headlight wash is an issue even now in the uk where damp roads are coating the headlights
Most new EVs will have some kind of temp management, but not all. The cheaper ones still don't and many older EVs sold in the past 5-10 years do not. Pretty sure most ID models prior to 2023/2024 didn't have this. I know the ID3 didn't. Pretty sure the MG4 don't have any preconditioning. At least the entry model with the 54kWh battery. It doesn't even have a navigation system so don't know if you're going to a charger. Many EVs are also very weird in the way they handle this. If you use the heatpump for cabin heating or cooling it will not be able to do the same for the battery.
Love the preconditioning in my iPace. *To be fair, my previous car was an ICE Jaguar XE and that had a similar feature (remote climate control) which was very welcome in winters & the occasional hot summers day! The iPace does do it better though 😊.
Ah Ah Ah ! All fine till the next power outage ! :) Funny all these advice for EVs slaves ! I am the MASTER of my ICE car. I go where I want, when I want without having to plan my trip, schedule stops ! I can park it everywhere in the street, in a building garage etc....
Not to a massive degree. I wouldn't expect to lose anymore than about 15 miles on a 100 mile drive. You rarely use the heater for the whole journey anyway. The heated seats use less energy than the car's heater.... I often warm the interior up with the heater, then switch to the heated seat...
You will not get your range back in the winter, this is misinformation. Summer driving I get well below 250 on the same weekly journey in the summer, 220. ish. In the winter if I am careful I can get below 270 in the winter. Thawts in the north of England. Also what kills range more than anything is very wet roads, If its raining, speed hammers the range.
But you fail to mention that range anxiety was made up purely to try to put people off buying EVs. According to Gov.uk and their driving habit data, publicly available, shows that 90% of all drivers; petrol, diesel, hybrid, PHEV and BEV do the grand total of less than 200 miles per week, which in case you can't work out is about 30 miles per day. Who cares if my range is 350 miles or 100 miles, winter or summer, I personally do a top up charge most days and use public chargers a mere twice or three times a month, but then of course I do far more miles than average touring EV chargers for filming. Many EV drivers do not ever charge at public chargers.
I've owned four houses and my parents who moved a lot had over six all with garages. Never has any of them been heated. I cannot think of anything more stupid and pointless. That is about as intelligent as using an electric fire in the back garden. Yes I have seen dumb people do that. Even when they are part of a house the ceiling and connecting walls get heavy insulation but the rest of the garage is left cold. Heating it would encourage rust. To avoid that a car port is the most effective.
@@mbak7801I think you have missed the point. In Scandinavian countries heated and insulated garages are not unusual. The temperature is set fairly low, perhaps 7 to 10 C but this is significantly different to the outside temperature which can get down to -20C or so.
@@mbak7801 I heat the garage using excess solar panels. I also heat the stables from the same source where I keep my car collection - 3 Aston Martins and 2 Ford Cosworths. It does not encourage rust. I am a builder who creates airtight buildings using SIPs which are all off grid and which consume no energy. You are really stupid using conventional building materials... for anything. You are also obviously poor and ignorant - I feel sorry for your family ... pitiful.
@@mbak7801 My garage was also my workshop so heating was critical, no fun working on little PCB's with freezing hands....although the soldering iron kept me a bit warm !
He says it takes about 4 minutes to get his EV up to temperature, much the same as an Ice car in freezing weather. Seems like his has heated side windows and lights too, as he does not mention having to scrape ice off like an Ice car! So there's absolutely no reason to be outside clearing any ice and not having to rush back indoors (I have never done that) to wait for my Ice car to get warm. But he still has to wait in his car for the same amount of time as I do for it to work properly. Confusing??? He also says he does not get info from the web to shill EV's. I suppose then, he does not agree with the new EV 'Fact' sheet from the SMMT, AutoTrader and ChargeUK, that clearly states there are 100,000 vehicle fires in the UK each year, from info correctly supplied by the Fire Service. BUT, what is a glaring omission, is that (assuming it's 95% Ice cars), that 65,000 of the 100,000 figure are deliberate fires. Deliberate as in, vandalism, stolen/set on fire and fraudulent insurance claims!! Hmm, the SMMT, AutoTrader and ChargeUK got that 'fact' very wrong, didn't they! The were up to 35,000 genuine car fires from 34 million Ice cars and 293 EV fires from 1.3 million EV's. Again, I would much rather chance being involved in some Ice car fires, than 1 horrendous EV fire!
Hello Dave, ICE cars, a bit of extra fuel to start with a choke and after 5 minutes ICE car's are just as efficient in winter as in summer. My car and every one else's ICE car do not take any more fuel in winter to summer, probably less economical in the summer actually as running the aircon. I think you are being a bit misleading to say ICE cars are affected like EV'S in the cold. Its a well know issue, and always will be that batteries do not like the cold. Petrol, and diesel are relatively unaffected when warm , diesel does not freeze anymore due to additives. You don't have to spend energy first warming up petrol or diesel prior to starting. A little extra fuel for five minutes as l said on start-up and it's runs as normal. You're EV battery will be affected all the time its in a cold environment, and efficiency will improve as the environment warms up. So l know your totally against ICE cars Dave, but you could be a bit more balanced in your reporting for your viewers. Regards the none beliver.
You missed several points that I made. ICE, the engines themselves, are actually more efficient in the winter, as the cold dense air produces more power in the cylinder. Points to you. However, the alternator uses a bit more power and that uses a bit more petrol. The small battery also works less efficiently and more are replaced as they collapse in the winter. But yes, if you like less than 25% efficiency from your engine and happily pay for more than 75% of the heat you produce from the fuel that you buy to be pumped out into the air, then go for it. We all have a choice. My 97% efficient electric motors may lose a tiny bit, and the battery likewise, but nowhere near 75%. I'll happily take the hit on the range because I, like most EV owners always charge at home overnight and rarely ever actually need the full range. Plus of course we willingly waste energy pre-heating the car and the battery and defrosting the windows while having breakfast. I'll willingly take that hit and again it is nowhere near the 75% you experience even in the summer, because mine comes straight from the house electricity, not the battery. PS the battery because I pre-heat it before setting off is up to temperature before I start driving, so it is not less efficient in the winter. It just works harder because all the heating is electric, albeit really efficient with heat pumps. PPS I am not against ICE, just the poisonous fumes, toxic gases and chemicals they release every time they run, summer and winter. I drove them for over 50 years. I just would never even consider going back to one. Not even as Data said, for 0.68 seconds, nearly an eternity.
No point. To get anything like sufficient/meaningful charge rate for an EV, you'd need a generator the size of a shed. Those little piddling market stall generators would take 2 days or more to charge an EV...
Anyway if you own a electric car for long enough it will pre condition it's self 🔥. Sorry only teasing no offence meant . Just couldn't resist l await your ICE car jokes 😊.
And when you're not at home ? I jump in my car switch on heated windscreens, seats, and steering wheel then drive off to fill up the car at the many petrol station which takes 3 minutes then I have 450 mile range with no worries. The narrator is happy with his heated seat and steering wheel while keeping the temperature at 18 but I wonder what his backseat passengers think about it ? This is not progress and wait until all the tax advantages goes and you pay the fall whack because the government isn't going to loose all that revenue it gets from the motorists
You mean you stand outside in sub zero temperatures holding a freezing cold petrol nozzle? Isn't that dangerous, frost bite, etc. When I'm not at home, I still turn on the cabin and battery heaters from my app and that in most EVs also includes the rear seats. Lovely and toasty when I get in, rather than freezing cold even for a few minutes while it has to warm up.
@davetakesiton you must really be a sensitive individual. When you're out and about and need charging, do you take someone with you to plug it in or brave the elements yourself ?🤣
Driving an EV with home charging means you don't even have to visit a gas station :P Most people drive far less per day than the range you get from an overnight charge anyway.
I have a diesel! I leave it at home in the cold because it takes far too long to warm up. I also leave it at home for our European roadtrips because the EV is a nicer drive and cheaper. As long as you're happy though, that's fine, no difference to me. 😉
I prefer getting into a nice warm car on a cold morning, Than wasting my time scrapping the windows and waiting for it to warm up. I will never go back to an ice car.
I and many other EV owners feel that using the milk float analogy just shows how little you know about EVs. Surely you can think up something better???
Depends on your definition of winter. Short trips with diesel in -5C or below will risk clogging up the EGR/DPF system. That is a very expensive repair due to some rare earth materials used in there. The problem is that the car doesn't get up to temperature so that it can burn of the residuals. It can also be disabled if the cars system detect a weak 12V battery. I had to drive for 30-60 minutes every now and then during winter to make sure the system worked. Was easy to spot as the idle rpm was about 200 higher than normal while it was burning off the residuals.
Not sure if it’s my imagination but my mg5 trophy seems to hold the heat in the car a lot more that my Toyota hybrid did . My wife thinks so too can’t be imagining it if for once we both agree lol😂
I have a Toyota BZ4X and have been happily driving it for nearly a year. I do love driving it but I discover something new everyday and I have been battling with heating car recently so this video is useful.. My thought is driving an EV is nothing like driving a conventional fuel car. It is like driving a computer and therefore would have like some in service training from the dealer about how to drive the car efficiently in all weather conditions, how everything works etc.. You pick up the car, they give you about 5 minutes showing you have to start it etc. and off you go and spend next year learning all about it with TH-cam google etc.
I’ll give you a real world example. At around the same time you made this video I had a power cut the evening before I was to do a 33 mile journey on a hilly rural road. The power was still off the following morning and my diesel car had less than half a tank of fuel. It started first time a the interior , including the seats were warm within a couple of minutes.
Halfway to my destination the road was blocked with snow and vehicles. I waited almost 4 hours on the top of a hill in my warm and comfortable diesel with the engine running.
I’d have had serious problems if I’d been driving an EV.
My EV is outside and has not been charged since Thursday but still has enough in the battery to cover 100 miles, what you are saying is if you run it to flat and have a power cut you are screwed isn't this like running your diesel to empty and finding all the fuel stations closed due to a power outage?
Your logic is flawed without electricity neither an EV petrol or diesel will be able to refuel.
@ my point is completely valid. If I’d been travelling in an EV with half a charge I would probably not have made it, I would , at best , been stuck on a freezing hillside for several hours unable to keep warm. Taking your scenario where pumps had also not been working, I would still have been able to make the return trip without refilling.
Love the pre-conditioning in my diesel 2023 LR Defender, works from the LR app exactly the same as the pre-conditioning in my 2024 electric Mini Countryman S E…………. Heated front and rear screens , mirrors, seats and steering wheel too - Countryman doesn’t have the heated front screen.
One thing I’ve wondered though with the Countryman is should I also force a manual HV battery condition cycle as well as the cabin preconditioning before driving away on a cold morning to help it work more efficiently
One problem I’ve found in heavy snow in both cars though is the lack of heat generated by the LED headlights and no headlamp washer jets means the headlights get dimmer and dimmer with salt spray and snow/slush build up on the lamp fairings.
I would never buy a car without headlight washers. It would be dangerous here in Norway during winter.
@@Gazer75I have no problem, but my lights have halogen and have sloped glass so the wind blows the slush and snow off.
No one should use LED head lamps with vertical glass in snowy conditions. A terrible design on a lot of EVs.
Dave you are fantastic, I am waiting for my first electric and thanks to you I am getting more and more excited.
Driving an EV is a completely different experience, one which I prefer. Not yet used Pre-conditioning as my journeys are generally short and the car warms very quickly. I charge at home and overnight. I am charging once a week, but might take it up to twice. Range isn’t a problem
Pre-conditioned on the way to Hartshead Moor East bound today....got there and all 6 Tesla chargers were in use !, never seen that before we actually had to wait almost 10 minutes before one came available as we were 2nd in the queue. Oddly enough the stack of Applegreen and the Gridserve chargers were just about all free, I guess no-one wants to pay their eye-watering prices, happy to wait !
Dave advises that everyone use the Tesla Superchargers...
Thanks for the queues Dave! 😂
A queue to refill my car ? NEVER saw one ! :) OK, I heard that in the seventies it happened a few time !
@ellsworthm.toohey7657 You weren't around in 2021 then? Try going to Costco for cheapest fuel, be prepared to wait. A queue is one or more...
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657 lol, it is common, especially if the petrol station offers the cheapest petrol & diesel price in that area compared with their rivals.
@@ellsworthm.toohey7657 For the legacy drivers, Diesel and Petrol there's often quite long queues at the supermarket fuel stations as its a few pence cheaper than the likes of Shell and BP plus supermarkets often offer 10p off a litre which has them queuing out onto the road !
Thank you for this thorough explanation, which I'll keep in mind when we switch to a BEV.
With cars that don't have proper battery pre-conditioning (my wife's e208 for example), we have found that it is worth plugging in for maybe 30-60 mins before you leave to give it a final bit of charge - with the result the battery charging at nearly full heats up the battery cells. You can also turn on the cabin heating since this will pull power from the battery which is being charged from the mains if the battery is already full.
We have an e208 and do the same, program the cabin heater to come on in the morning while it’s plugged in charging, nice and toasty and defrosted when you get in. Doesn’t use the battery range up. Not as good as a Tesla but works fine in the winter.
Do you think this can be fixed with a software update? I've got a Citroen C4 and I think it is the same system being PSA.
@williamlawrenson8345 no, the stalantis group have no interest in fixing the over the air updates or the app. Sorry
I love the preconditioning in my EV. Haven't scraped or got into a cold car first thing in the morning since getting my EV. Never going back to mechanical piston cars.
Evening Dave
My Volvo EX30 extended range stats 295 miles full battery? I've charged it & max is 230 miles?in this cold weather ?I use the app to defrost? Taking 15 minutes ?It takes around 3 mile off battery doing this ?
Great video 🎉
0:15:00 This is great advice, pre-condition on the way using energy that cost you 7p/kWh rather than preconditioning at the charger at 40+p/kWh.
If you're charging up to a target level, it won't make a difference. You're replacing that charge with the more expensive rate anyway.
Seen a few people out who didn't sweep the snow off their car, possibly not remembering that there is no engine under the bonnet to clear the snow.
Definitely liked turning on the climate control and heated window from the phone app so that the car was warm and windows defrosted.
Thanks, my car does 300 in Summer and 250 in Winter, when it costs just 2p/mile in electricity , who cares, just use your car normally, unless you really need your maximum range. Even if you lose say 2000 miles of range over Winter, most users won't, then £40 extra is not worth worrying about.
Yes all good tips, all cars lose range because cold air is denser and the drag equation shows drag is directly proportional to air density.
Starting my first winter with the Tesla M3 RWD, noticed on Sunday preconditioning used 16 miles of consumption before arriving at Kings Lynn Superchargers.
Having a Niro EV, heating the before travelling is truly welcome when cold and frosty, sadly, we can't pre-condition the battery (I believe an issue for all Kia vehicles), it's been a frustration for some time and no one know why this feature has not been made available yet.
The other issue is Tesla chargers are not recognised by the Kia satnav so putting a location in doesn't trigger the pre-heat, instead I have to find a close by charger which generally works (but not always!). Being a Niro driver, I clearly wait for a charge for longer due to the limits, but it's not much of a difference I've noticed.
Some further advice:
- Make sure your tyres are at the correct pressure, this can make quite a difference
- Driver no more than 60mph, more efficient for an EV, going higher will reduce your distance
- If you can and brave enough, tailgate a lorry, the aerodynamics again can make a major difference (works for all types of cars btw)
Other significant impacts which are not within your control are the direction of the wind and if the road is wet, less friction when wet equals shorter distance, driving into a strong wind equals a shorter distance, again, this applies to all vehicles, not just EV.
Finally, wrap up with plenty of clothing, if you have driving gloves, this helps.
If you have a heat pump, it can take nearly 3KW of energy to begin with, this is then like to drop to between 500W and 1KW when the temperature is reached (and how hot you want it to be), you 'may' find it better to switch the heating off and only when really cold, switch if back on again, not sure this is the most efficient method, quite difficult to test.
Loving the pre-heat in the morning 22T3SR+. Usually turn it on about 10mins before jumping in the car. Noted 2% more battery usage than usual on a 35mile mostly motorway @ 0degrees snow and ice 😃. Left heater at 20.5 and seat on 1bar.
Hi Dave thanks for some really useful advice.
Thanks Dave very interesting,, and helpful.👍👍
Put your hands in your pockets and stop wobbling around. Ice dance you are a master of it.
I own a petrol hybrid Toyota and I have an app that switches the car on from my phone so when I go out and jump in my car 15 min later it’s warm and defrosted so you don’t need a full electric car to remote car pre-climate condition your car Dave.
Really informative video. I’m new to EV driving and this info is really useful to know! Pre conditioning is a massive win with EV’s!
The ones that can do it sure. Lots of EVs have a pretty bad system for this. Some can't do any preconditioning, others might do it if you navigate to a charger. Some have a manual option, but not an automatic system. Some EVs rely on the heatpump to do it and if its overloaded cooling/heating the cabin it can't do the battery as well.
Some great tips for winter driving. Just a quick point though, not all EV's have pre conditioning. My previous Kia E Niro did not have any!
Thanks for this tip, as i was thinking of buying a 2nd hand eNiro. When was battery preconditioning added?
@@martinmorgan9 Some people have used "Winter Mode" to help heat the batteries up. It may have been added by a software update as some posts I have looked at talk about it working if you navigate to a charger. So this would not be on the lower spec Kia E Niro as no Navigation. I had a 4+ and loved all the extra gadgets and the heat pump. For info In the summer months I could get 260 miles and 210 in the winter. The winter one was 3 adults and 3 23kg bags plus hand luggage drove to manchester airport in freezing temps, left car for 2 weeks, then drove home in freezing temps. Completed 200 m iles and had 10-15 left in battery. A great car.
Look at the 2023 models and check those, the "Niro EV".
If finance means an older one you will be happy and can try the Winter Mode hack to pre heat. It really depends how often tyou will be Rapid Charging. Savings come from a cheap overnight rate and home charging.
You Say exactly what i would say, good work
Good advice Dave. I decided to follow your advice. I have a Ford Mustang Mach E which doesn’t appear to have the sophisticated battery management that the Tesla models have. Ford’s approach to pre-conditioning is to switch on the cabin temperature, heated seats and steering wheel. I charged the battery to 90% and was amazed to see the projected mileage increase for the initial part of the journey without any loss of battery percentage. I will now keep the heated steering wheel and seats on as you suggest to condition the battery throughout my Winter motoring.
Did you mention that when you pre-condition the car in the morning you should do it plugged -in so you're not using battery/range. It is also considered more efficient to keep yourself warm mostly with seat heating if you're on your own, only taking the edge off the cabin air temperature with the hvac.
I think this depends what kind of tariff you are on, I'd much rather use the battery that was charged at 7p/kWh rather than pull power from the grid at 26p/kWh. But if you have solar or battery storage then it makes sense to pre-condition whilst plugged in.
Not all EVs can do preheating/conditioning while plugged in though. It's stupid I know...
@@DJBaldPaulmy solar panels were covered in snow yesterday. I don’t mind paying 26p/kw as it’s still cheaper than a supercharger and I can precondition before leaving home.
Nice topic and good coverage on preconditioning. I am a non tesla owner and you have good points for EVs in general. Home charging over night does make EV ownership better no matter what season you are in even here in the US.
If you pre-condition before you arrive at charger, does that not drain more power from the battery before you get there, therefore meaning you need to replace more power which costs you the higher rate anyway? Only worth it if the power used for pre-conditioning is less than the extra power used at the charger, otherwise the only gain is the shorter stop time.
If my nearest SC is 30miles away, how do I preheat my MY for an Osprey 15 minutes away from work
Use the app.
Skoda enyaq. And no preconditioning or heat pump. Why are heat pumps just not fitted as standard these days to all cars
In the case of Skoda and other brands who thrive on greed, and more greed....so they can charge a premium for those "extras"!
@@David-bl1bt £1000 for heat pump. Do the maths especially if you have a cheap overnight tariff. It will never pay for itself.
@@djhvideo - depends on where you live, if in the Scottish highlands a heat-pump may well pay for itself, if in South-West England less likely so.
Depends on the market I guess. They probably look at the average temperature. Here in Norway people wouldn't buy cars without it so they come as standard these days.
Heatpump is very efficient and smart if you get several months of -5 to +10C.
We lose at least 10% of our efficiency due to the increase in air density drag with cold air. In addition to that the transmission lubricants also cause significant losses at lower temperature. I see my average miles per kWh rise as I drive as the lubricants warm up.
lose, not loose.....
@@Brian-om2hh thanks, now corrected.
Great tips and advice Dave - many thanks
I love that pre conditioning nice and toastie when I get in the morning and evening
So how much range do you lose in -1 say 20% ? Do you make this back with the pre con or is it gone until you charge ?
I checked the before and after state of charge in my 2024 Mini Countryman S E yesterday when running a preconditioning cycle at -7C in Central Scotland. Dropped the HV battery SOC by 2% on a 65kWh HV battery so used less than 2kWh =6 or 7 miles range. That was used by the heat pump, heated front seats the heated steering wheel and the heated door mirrors.
@@timoliver8940ah ok interesting so no great loss then , I must say I have a diesel when in icy 'er indoors is kind enough to get all that ice off . So she will love an ev .
The range on my four year old e208 fell through the floor this morning. Once the temperature drops to 3C I'm stuffed.
No heatpump in the EVs sold in the UK maybe? I start seeing a significant loss of range in -5 to -10C in my e-Golf.
What is the range on your 4 year old e208?
I owned a 2 year old e208 and the max range shown on the dash was 192 miles.
Sold it before the winter.
Mine's a 5 month old Citroen C4 and the range dropped like a stone on Thursday.
I'll try the tip to do a bit of charging and cabin warming before leaving home to see if that helps.
@@williamlawrenson8345 Dropped to what?
You want snow,NE Scotland has had plenty.About 6 inches sitting on the ground outside.My Nokian winter tyres are brilliant,once I have cleared off the overnight snow.
Yes.
Wow, never seen an article on all this malarky for ICE vehicles....
Well no, you won't, because an ICE car uses heat from water in the car's cooling system, while at the same time wasting 70% of it's lost energy as heat....
@@Brian-om2hh If you can only use public chargers your EV will be doing ( pricewise ) about 15mpg, or 80 pence for every 3 miles... LOL The novelty value that initially sold an EV has worn off and sales are dropping off a cliff.... Trump will stop taxpayer subsidies for EV...
@@Brian-om2hh Not a waste, it keeps you nice and toasty for free, without sacrificing a single mile of range.
Not only is a cold battery the reason behind reduced miles/kWh but the air is significantly denser when it is cold. I've parked my EV is an integral garage with a minimum temperature of 15°C and yet I still struggled to get much above 4 miles/kWh on cold days. Doing the same journey on a warm day (>20°C) could get up to 5 miles/kWh at best. Leaving the car outside on a cold night means less than 3.5 miles/kWh for the same 15 minute journey.
A mostly correct story.
Some extra points.
EVERY car uses more energy driving in the cold. Not for heating or whatever reason. Simply because cold air...same atmospheric pressure...is denser (more heavy I could say...than warm air. This increses energy usage wehn driving at the same speed for pushing the air out of the way. My previous diesel car also used al lot more energy in winter than in summer (5 to 10% depending on how cold)
Even with all these tips....the range will be less as in summer.
At this moment I drive my ioniq 5 , heatpump in it....ca 380 km in winter on full battery and 445 in summer heat...
WLTP range 430 km. This summer-winter difference is not much bigger as in my previous ICE cars.
Of coarse I use preheating in winter .
Next point...
When you preheat your battery before charging the battery will be using its own energy for preheating.
You arrive with less energy at the supercharger which means that you will buy more high priced energy when charging up to 80%.
When arriving cold you'll buy expensive electricity to heat the battery but a little less for charging because you have more reserve in the battery.
I prefer preheating the battery before arriving at a charger because it saves a lot of time.
Also ...a good car will have active cooling OR warming during driving...depending on outside temperature and produced heat .
The ioniq 5 will close all cooling in the winter from the battery which makes it less cold than when you drive a car without this diferences.
When I make a longer travel I do not go more often to chargers as in summer...I only arrive with a little less energy in the battery in winter.
And that is only at the first charging stop. Because the first fast charge increases the battery temp enough (up to 55 degrees celsius) for heating the cabin afterwards...not spoiling that energy...or keeping the battery warm enough (25 to 30 degrees celsius) for saving precious electricity on preheating the battery for next stop.
My experience...11 years driving with (different) electric cars.
Load question re preconditioning... assuming the EV is plugged in, what sort of kW load is there and for how long? Um, 400W for say 30 mins for cabin and say 2kW for 30 mins for the battery?? I work on EV loads on LV and this sort of info is very useful for modelling.
2 kw for 30 mins for a half ton battery. Wouldn't scratch the surface!
@@djhvideo Agreed! So, what? 10kW for an hour?? How much temp rise is needed? :(
Home charger is the limiting factor depending on how the EV do the preconditioning. Those are often up to 7kW, but can be as low as 3kW and as high as 11kW.
My 2020 e-Golf have no temperature management for the HV battery, but will use a 2-3kW heatpump to preheat the cabin. The heatpump runs on the HV battery and the fans on the 12V.
There is a third problem too: in the Winter the air is denser, and so the Coefficient of drag of the car is increased. It would be interesting to see actual figures for the Summer/Winter CdA difference.
It's true, but the same actually applies to ALL cars, whether they are ICE or BEV, and we've always had to live with that.
@martinmorgan9 Sure, but a tabulation of all the drains on a car's energy performance is a useful thing to know about anyway.
Am new to ev and loving how how cheap it is to run being around 2p per mile much cheaper than my diesal car, this is very interesting now i only do a few miles to work maybe 4 or 5 and only charge at home , so should i precondition or not although great tip on the heating, only me in the car so probably better having the heated seat on than the heater on full blast
Unless it's really cold minus temp and you are going some distance then no. However pre heating the car does actually warm the battery up a bit though.
Thanks Dave that sounds like very good advice
So if you can’t precondition your car while plugged in at home do you think you would get better range by just setting off and not using battery power or is it best to precondition it. Or I suppose how far do you have to be traveling for it to make a difference?
As Dave explained, always precondition it to get the best range and faster charging at public chargers.
@ yes I understand that but if it takes 5-6% or more of my battery to precondition how long does a journey need to be to make it worth while
Car makers that do this should be sued tbh :P The most stupid thing ever to not be able to precondition or preheat when plugged in.
Not really worth it if you're not going on a longer trip that also requires DC charging at some point.
When you say "all EVs have battery preconditioning", can you check that please? Does it include Nissan Leaf, Kia eNiro and other older cars?
Why can’t you check?
The Niro has preconditioning but it doesn't have a manual override, so you can't precondition whilst sitting in your drive plugged in, only approaching a charging station, this applies to all Kia's, not sure about the rest but I believe it quite a common issue.
Never having to scrape ice off your windscreen is a nice benefit of EV ownership and one I’ve enjoyed over the last few days.
That costs you 20 miles.
At cheap price over night ,who cares.😂@54duffield54
@@Un-ApologeticFor long journeys, I’d defrost while plugged in.
My toyota prius Phev 2020 can also do this.
@@Un-ApologeticMeanwhile, running a car engine on the drive doesn't use any petrol does it?
As you've already been advised, preconditioning and defrost when plugged in solves the problem you perceive.
According to my charger I can't charge between 8.00am and 11.00am so how do I warm up the car while it is on charge? Even if I disable this feature I will be using electricity at a peak time.
Change your charger programming, use the override and yes if you do that you'll be using electricity at the appropriate rate, whatever that is for you.
Depends on the car model. Pretty sure all EVs can preheat from the main battery, but some are quite stupid and refuse to do it if plugged in.
Not sure if it’s my imagination but my mg5 trophy seems to hold the heat in the car a lot more that my Toyota hybrid did . My wife thinks so too can’t be imagining it if for once we both agree lol😂
No better feeling than waking up in the morning, and looking out of my window to see the cars frozen over. I get back into bed and turn on the conditioning on my Ioniq 6 :D 20 mins later it is all warm in side and no ice on the car.
and drain most of your battery you mug
I don't know where the chart is, but there is a negative affect at colder and hotter outside temperatures on the batteries if the state of charge (SOC) is below 20% or above 50%. I am lucky as I can charge at home before my daily commutes. So I set the maximum SOC to 50% to be attained by 7:30am, and have my Tesla preconditioned by 7:30. If I know I am going to be driving further than my 30 miles round trip daily commute I increase my maximum SOC as a one off charging limit. And if I need to take my batteries to a high SOC say 95 or even 100% (I don't have LFP batteries so I am not supposed to charge this high regularly) then again I use my app to schedule the full charge to finish at my time of departure. Because it is not good for the batteries to sit at a high SOC. So basically hit hits 95 or 100% and I walk out of the house, disconnect, and depart. Now after saying all that, there are lots of Tesla owners who can not baby their car's battery and they make out just fine. Supercharging daily because they live in an apartment, unable to leave their vehicle always plugged in (I failed to mention that my car is always plugged in when home as that is also best practice), and unable to garage their cars to keep their car and batteries at a higher temp than when out on the cold street. I actually don't garage my car but rather park it in a carport, so it gets very cold when the temps drop to freezing or below. Just food for thought. And that is perhaps the point, educate yourself and then think before you do. Having an EV does require a little adaptation but so do gas vehicles. If I know I am going on a long trip with a gas car, I check to see if I should get the oil changed, fill the tank up the night before so I don't need to do it at start of trip, etc.
Preconditioned my Model 3 this morning while checking some emails and drinking a nice coffee. It was so nice to step into a car with warm seats, and clear screens after 40 years of letting ICE cars idle on the drive while you scraping the windows and waiting for the heater to warm up.
I did this whilst it was still connected to the charger after an overnight charge. Car topped up the charge to 80% after defrost/precondition had taken place so I drove off with a warm battery charged to 80%.
I pre-conned this morning, nice to watch the ice and snow drip off the car whilst I sat having my morning tea !
Yes, jumped into my car this morning, it was like being in the Bahamas 🌞😁 24 degrees.
I waved goid morning to my neighbour as she was stood in the freezing hail engulfed in toxic fumes whilst scraping the windows😂
Is idling a fossil not illegal in the UK? If people did that here I'm pretty sure the police would eventually show up and give you a fine.
And why would you need to idle when there are block or coolant heater systems out there LOL. Much cheaper and better for the engine.
@@Gazer75 Apparently not, you often see cars on driveways idling away, same in parking lots or just at the side of the road whilst waiting for their little darlings to come out of school, mummy sits in massive SUV belching diesel and other toxic fumes over everyone and their kids !
Never had issue with a cold ICE car in winter. Anyone that care about their car in cold climate should use a block or coolant heater. These kits often also come with a timer and a small 12V charger to keep the battery in a good state. Even a cabin heater is an option. I've had a Defa system in all my cars except the last fossil, a diesel Golf. It was parked in an apartment garage where temps rarely got below freezing. And it also had a built in auxiliary diesel heater I could use if needed.
I can’t find on my mokka how to pre condition, using the app I can warm it up but that’s it.
ev drivers with this very cold weather to make sure you can get home only drive your ev round the block
Are you so sad that you watch a15 minute video about something you hate and will never have? Do you really have nothing better to do?
@@davetakesiton says the guy filming Ev chargers😂😂😂😂
Why the dishonesty? Says a lot about you
@@davetakesiton yes i am so sad but a very wealthy one that have cars that make money instead of 2nd hand evs that are worth nothing
@@brianbottomley7000you do realise your views and comments help his channel don't you?
It’s a bit frustrating when you focus too much on Tesla. Please remember most here are not Tesla owners. 😊
It’s a fair point, but as he explained towards the end of the video he ‘takes it on’, ie what he talks about is from real life experiences. So because he owns a Tesla he can really only give accurate findings and conclusions based on that car. I suspect that if he gives facts and figures about other EV manufacturers they would be based upon data that he has read about.
Tesla owners consider themselves as an enlighten elite !
Tesla fanboy for sure
Increasingly less people here are Tesla owners would probably be more accurate.
Good one Dave, this is my first winter as an EV owner and cold here in Hungary. Setting off through Austria and Germany tomorrow and snow is predicted. Some useful tips there I'm sure.
Just bought a BMW I3 in November. Use the BMW App to precondition the battery and cabin 30 minutes before departure. Easy peasy. If I at 77 can do it, anyone can.
Dave so it's my fault for not precon before leaving on my journey... I will remember from now on.. Great video mate...
choice not fault
I have some advice too get a ICE car simple same mpg with the heater on 😊
That's because 70% of the energy paid for is gifted to the atmosphere as heat.
In winter, it finally has some purpose!
However, in winter, mpg is worse because cold air is denser, this requires more fuel to maintain a stochiometric ratio for combustion.
ICE vehicles seek to mitigate it by having warm and cold air intake and a flap valve to select but it's still there, you just don't notice it as much.
I've got ICE cars too though, still prefer a preheated EV every time. 😉
Your fine program has given me an idea - the need for winter battery heating possibly gives a lifeline for a limited use of hydrogen. As an alternative to EVs hydrogen has of course failed. However Toyota make a small hydrogen fuel cell “cassette”. This is intended to give hydrogen cars a little more portable range. But a much better use of those hydrogen cassettes is to use with an EV in cold weather, just to warm up the battery. Then you could warm up the big battery without losing a chunk of your EV range. In cold weather you could keep a couple of hydrogen fuel cell cassettes in the boot, to maintain normal range. Toyota should talk to the China EV chiefs about this.
Great advice Dave. I love stepping into my "preconditioned" car in the morning with everything toasty warm.
I charged my Renault megane e-tech with a heat pump on a rapid charge, and it took longer to change and very expensive.
Did you not precondition on the way there?
Not all electric cars have battery preconditioning. The
new Dacia Spring doesn't
Not surprising though given it’s the cheapest of the cheapest.
And Nissan Leaf's
What to do about defrosting LED headlights? I can at least see one "snowflake!"😊
Yep, it definitely worked for me this morning.
Thanks Dave. My first winter with a tesla where I'll be in the french alps for 4 months where it will get to -20c and I can't charge at home there so its public charging. I'll be checking twice a week on the car and if the battery start to drop due to the cold, I'll be going to the supermarket chargers to top up. As others have said, the lack of headlight wash is an issue even now in the uk where damp roads are coating the headlights
Could be your last when you will be stranded because of power outage and realize this is NOT an all around car !
Most new EVs will have some kind of temp management, but not all. The cheaper ones still don't and many older EVs sold in the past 5-10 years do not.
Pretty sure most ID models prior to 2023/2024 didn't have this. I know the ID3 didn't. Pretty sure the MG4 don't have any preconditioning. At least the entry model with the 54kWh battery. It doesn't even have a navigation system so don't know if you're going to a charger.
Many EVs are also very weird in the way they handle this. If you use the heatpump for cabin heating or cooling it will not be able to do the same for the battery.
Love the preconditioning in my iPace. *To be fair, my previous car was an ICE Jaguar XE and that had a similar feature (remote climate control) which was very welcome in winters & the occasional hot summers day! The iPace does do it better though 😊.
I thought that the iPace preconditioned itself with thermal runaway.Many have been recalled, maybe the are making an app for it.
Ah Ah Ah ! All fine till the next power outage ! :) Funny all these advice for EVs slaves ! I am the MASTER of my ICE car. I go where I want, when I want without having to plan my trip, schedule stops !
I can park it everywhere in the street, in a building garage etc....
And I would love to see you fill up at a petrol station with no electricity!
@@davetakesiton Just drive to the next :) You are so ridicule !
However, the cabin heater etc drains your battery pack, simplessss
Not to a massive degree. I wouldn't expect to lose anymore than about 15 miles on a 100 mile drive. You rarely use the heater for the whole journey anyway. The heated seats use less energy than the car's heater.... I often warm the interior up with the heater, then switch to the heated seat...
If that still leaves way more than I need before plugging it in again at home, where's the problem here exactly?
'Why does your car lose so much efficiency and range in the winter' it doesn't, its got an engine.
People complaining about EVs in winter whilst driving a diesel is hilarious.
You will not get your range back in the winter, this is misinformation. Summer driving I get well below 250 on the same weekly journey in the summer, 220. ish. In the winter if I am careful I can get below 270 in the winter. Thawts in the north of England. Also what kills range more than anything is very wet roads, If its raining, speed hammers the range.
But you fail to mention that range anxiety was made up purely to try to put people off buying EVs. According to Gov.uk and their driving habit data, publicly available, shows that 90% of all drivers; petrol, diesel, hybrid, PHEV and BEV do the grand total of less than 200 miles per week, which in case you can't work out is about 30 miles per day. Who cares if my range is 350 miles or 100 miles, winter or summer, I personally do a top up charge most days and use public chargers a mere twice or three times a month, but then of course I do far more miles than average touring EV chargers for filming. Many EV drivers do not ever charge at public chargers.
Keep it in a heated garage.
Show off
I've owned four houses and my parents who moved a lot had over six all with garages. Never has any of them been heated. I cannot think of anything more stupid and pointless. That is about as intelligent as using an electric fire in the back garden. Yes I have seen dumb people do that. Even when they are part of a house the ceiling and connecting walls get heavy insulation but the rest of the garage is left cold. Heating it would encourage rust. To avoid that a car port is the most effective.
@@mbak7801I think you have missed the point. In Scandinavian countries heated and insulated garages are not unusual. The temperature is set fairly low, perhaps 7 to 10 C but this is significantly different to the outside temperature which can get down to -20C or so.
@@mbak7801 I heat the garage using excess solar panels. I also heat the stables from the same source where I keep my car collection - 3 Aston Martins and 2 Ford Cosworths. It does not encourage rust. I am a builder who creates airtight buildings using SIPs which are all off grid and which consume no energy. You are really stupid using conventional building materials... for anything. You are also obviously poor and ignorant - I feel sorry for your family ... pitiful.
@@mbak7801 My garage was also my workshop so heating was critical, no fun working on little PCB's with freezing hands....although the soldering iron kept me a bit warm !
Tip 1 - DON'T BUY AN EV
My experience of EV cars so far is It's for coffin dodgers that don't drive over 70mph, anything over that they are expensive on long journeys
😂 goodness
He says it takes about 4 minutes to get his EV up to temperature, much the same as an Ice car in freezing weather.
Seems like his has heated side windows and lights too, as he does not mention having to scrape ice off like an Ice car!
So there's absolutely no reason to be outside clearing any ice and not having to rush back indoors (I have never done that) to wait for my Ice car to get warm. But he still has to wait in his car for the same amount of time as I do for it to work properly.
Confusing???
He also says he does not get info from the web to shill EV's.
I suppose then, he does not agree with the new EV 'Fact' sheet from the SMMT, AutoTrader and ChargeUK, that clearly states there are 100,000 vehicle fires in the UK each year, from info correctly supplied by the Fire Service.
BUT, what is a glaring omission, is that (assuming it's 95% Ice cars), that 65,000 of the 100,000 figure are deliberate fires.
Deliberate as in, vandalism, stolen/set on fire and fraudulent insurance claims!!
Hmm, the SMMT, AutoTrader and ChargeUK got that 'fact' very wrong, didn't they!
The were up to 35,000 genuine car fires from 34 million Ice cars and 293 EV fires from 1.3 million EV's.
Again, I would much rather chance being involved in some Ice car fires, than 1 horrendous EV fire!
Hello Dave, ICE cars, a bit of extra fuel to start with a choke and after 5 minutes ICE car's are just as efficient in winter as in summer. My car and every one else's ICE car do not take any more fuel in winter to summer, probably less economical in the summer actually as running the aircon. I think you are being a bit misleading to say ICE cars are affected like EV'S in the cold. Its a well know issue, and always will be that batteries do not like the cold. Petrol, and diesel are relatively unaffected when warm , diesel does not freeze anymore due to additives. You don't have to spend energy first warming up petrol or diesel prior to starting. A little extra fuel for five minutes as l said on start-up and it's runs as normal. You're EV battery will be affected all the time its in a cold environment, and efficiency will improve as the environment warms up. So l know your totally against ICE cars Dave, but you could be a bit more balanced in your reporting for your viewers. Regards the none beliver.
Whatever the temperature, the energy efficacy of ICE is pitiful compared to an EV.
You missed several points that I made. ICE, the engines themselves, are actually more efficient in the winter, as the cold dense air produces more power in the cylinder. Points to you. However, the alternator uses a bit more power and that uses a bit more petrol. The small battery also works less efficiently and more are replaced as they collapse in the winter. But yes, if you like less than 25% efficiency from your engine and happily pay for more than 75% of the heat you produce from the fuel that you buy to be pumped out into the air, then go for it. We all have a choice.
My 97% efficient electric motors may lose a tiny bit, and the battery likewise, but nowhere near 75%. I'll happily take the hit on the range because I, like most EV owners always charge at home overnight and rarely ever actually need the full range. Plus of course we willingly waste energy pre-heating the car and the battery and defrosting the windows while having breakfast. I'll willingly take that hit and again it is nowhere near the 75% you experience even in the summer, because mine comes straight from the house electricity, not the battery. PS the battery because I pre-heat it before setting off is up to temperature before I start driving, so it is not less efficient in the winter. It just works harder because all the heating is electric, albeit really efficient with heat pumps. PPS I am not against ICE, just the poisonous fumes, toxic gases and chemicals they release every time they run, summer and winter. I drove them for over 50 years. I just would never even consider going back to one. Not even as Data said, for 0.68 seconds, nearly an eternity.
Simples don't buy an EV
GAS & DIESEL FOR EVER😅
Or at least until oil runs dry. And oil is a finite resource. It *will* run dry one day....
⚡️😞⛽️😃
How To Get The Most Out Of Your EV This Winter - Sell it!
Best way to get the most out of your EV is to get rid and buy hybrid then none of this tedious car nannying needs exist. Read the room guys.
BUY A GENERATOR
Why?
No point. To get anything like sufficient/meaningful charge rate for an EV, you'd need a generator the size of a shed. Those little piddling market stall generators would take 2 days or more to charge an EV...
Anyway if you own a electric car for long enough it will pre condition it's self 🔥. Sorry only teasing no offence meant . Just couldn't resist l await your ICE car jokes 😊.
And when you're not at home ? I jump in my car switch on heated windscreens, seats, and steering wheel then drive off to fill up the car at the many petrol station which takes 3 minutes then I have 450 mile range with no worries. The narrator is happy with his heated seat and steering wheel while keeping the temperature at 18 but I wonder what his backseat passengers think about it ? This is not progress and wait until all the tax advantages goes and you pay the fall whack because the government isn't going to loose all that revenue it gets from the motorists
You mean you stand outside in sub zero temperatures holding a freezing cold petrol nozzle? Isn't that dangerous, frost bite, etc. When I'm not at home, I still turn on the cabin and battery heaters from my app and that in most EVs also includes the rear seats. Lovely and toasty when I get in, rather than freezing cold even for a few minutes while it has to warm up.
@davetakesiton you must really be a sensitive individual. When you're out and about and need charging, do you take someone with you to plug it in or brave the elements yourself ?🤣
Driving an EV with home charging means you don't even have to visit a gas station :P Most people drive far less per day than the range you get from an overnight charge anyway.
@@Gazer75 As Clarkson says "they are just white goods " no soul like a fridge !
@@Gazer75 More white goods than a car . No soul like a quartz watch !
After all that faffing about, you only have the power to get to the next EV charging place, ten miles away lol, rubbish just get a diesel.
In another 10 years, you'll probably have to drive a good few miles to find any diesel.....
I have a diesel! I leave it at home in the cold because it takes far too long to warm up.
I also leave it at home for our European roadtrips because the EV is a nicer drive and cheaper. As long as you're happy though, that's fine, no difference to me. 😉
It's all coming out of the woodwork now..😂😂😂 !! Great advert for why not to buy an EV..!!😂😂😂
?
I prefer getting into a nice warm car on a cold morning, Than wasting my time scrapping the windows and waiting for it to warm up. I will never go back to an ice car.
In what way?
It’s all coming out of the woodwork lol watta fool
My diesel is warm in under 5 minutes, why is this a problem ?
All of this propaganda will never get me to buy a milk float.
And, all the EV FUD will never get me back to buying a polluting ICE car
I and many other EV owners feel that using the milk float analogy just shows how little you know about EVs. Surely you can think up something better???
buy a diesel for winter no worries
Pass
Depends on your definition of winter. Short trips with diesel in -5C or below will risk clogging up the EGR/DPF system. That is a very expensive repair due to some rare earth materials used in there.
The problem is that the car doesn't get up to temperature so that it can burn of the residuals. It can also be disabled if the cars system detect a weak 12V battery.
I had to drive for 30-60 minutes every now and then during winter to make sure the system worked. Was easy to spot as the idle rpm was about 200 higher than normal while it was burning off the residuals.
Trade it in against a diesel 4x4
Not sure if it’s my imagination but my mg5 trophy seems to hold the heat in the car a lot more that my Toyota hybrid did . My wife thinks so too can’t be imagining it if for once we both agree lol😂