Unless they don't like you to begin with..names on record , live in the same ward..yet in the many years I have not graced their doors, only twice have they ever tried to contact us..guess when you have a ward that its leadership at the time actively "worked" with secret combinations to try to get the bank to not allow the loan at the last minute at the signing as revealed by the secretary at the bank when the rep left the room and revealed what was REALLY giong on..I guess if you where never wanted and worked against to buy a home by the vary ward your in by its members, then if you don't show up after living their 30 years p#ssing them off..I guess they don't come trying to get you back..even after changing the status of divorced single mom, that was the supposed revealed reason the working against me church members felt was the reason to secret combination against me to try to get my loan denied..yep Clearly I knew my rights and got that loan as soon as I threatened to lawyer up..how fast that back rep claimed it was all a big mistake and whipped out those closing documents for me to sign
The missionaries found me. They stopped by 3 times, but now, even after asking them to stop by and teach me they won't. They won't even respond to my texts anymore. All I did was ask about D&C 20:65 and the Law of Common Consent. If you want the church to leave you alone and ignore you all you've gotta do is ask a controversial question.
@@louhi6015 D&C stands for doctrine and covenants, and is in reference to a set of holy Mormon scriptures. The law of common consent was a law that is no longer used which once taught that for a revelation to be enacted, everyone had to vote on it first. They no longer do this and just tell people what to do
Reading these comments makes me realize how “blessed” I have been for having no one try to contact me at my door for 7 years! The church did however, contact my 87 year old mother asking her for my address. I know she wanted them to find her but I was so impressed by her that she wanted to ask me first. She supported me in leaving the church but it added so much to her feelings of failure as a mother. Not long before she died, she told me how much of a failure she thought she was because out of four children, only one was a believer. She was an amazing woman. So sad that the church made her feel like a failure.
I was contacted by ward members multiple times at two separate places I've lived over the years, around the time I became open with my TBM family with the concerns and questions I had about the church around 20 years ago. At one home, members showed up a handful of times over several months, even though I told them each time I was not interested and their visits were not welcome. The last visit from them ended with my nevermo husband answering the door, telling them to get off of our property and that he would contact the police if any of the church's representatives showed up on our porch again. Life moved us to another state, and the visits continued. My TBM family just couldn't be straight with me when I asked if they were requesting the local ward come by our new home. By then I had been inactive for years, and had not updated my address with the church at all during that time. I finally decided to resign to get the visits to stop, and all hell broke loose with my family of origin when I took that step. What can they possibly expect when you've had enough of the overstepping of boundaries, from the church and your own "well-meaning" family?
So, let me get this straight. You, at some point, joined the Church, decided it wasn't for you, you refuse to remove yourself from the membership, but it's somehow the Church's fault when they check on you? Got it.
@@cameronbrown5134 Oh yeah, it's so increeeedibly difficult. You have to write a letter requesting it. You send a copy to the local Stake President and the Membership Records Dept. at Church headquarters. It might take all of a half hour and a couple of weeks to process. How hard...
As I was thinking about what I wanted to comment on and looking at the woman speaking, I could see how she was robotic like, non-human like a clone. 40 years I did this. Did I appear to look that dead too? I really thought I was a lot more animated. Perhaps I just wasn't with the popular crowd at church. I was a lot more real.
I strayed. I was walking down the street one day, my trusty iron rod in my hand, when I passed a coffee shop that just...smelled TOO good to resist. Since I couldn't fit the rod through the door, I must have dropped it. I've been wandering around aimlessly ever since, following my every sinful impulse and being a general menace to society. 😆 In all seriousness, though, as someone who just recently stepped away from the Church and has not removed their records because so far things have been quiet enough, it's good to learn about this now. I'm about to move, but I'm still in Utah and have no doubt I will be tracked down and reached out to by various people and probably through various means. I want to be fair and polite and friendly to them because I understand where they'll be coming from, but if it gets bad, I'll know whom to blame!
Good luck with the move. In many areas of Utah, your ward will consist of just a few blocks, and you and the other one or two nonmember households within those boundaries will receive a copious amount of attention. You will be their new project. Don't be afraid to make friends with them while also setting firm boundaries that you aren't interested in any church stuff.
It is interesting to see that the Church leadership still doesn’t get why so many young people are leaving the Church. It is not because they got lost, but because they found out the truth. Tell us the whole truth, apologize, change, and then people might want to come back again.
My sister so kindly transferred my records from my last ward to my new address in another state. She sure saved everybody a lot of time searching for me 😂😭 With a recent ward reorganization/consolidation, their interest has been renewed at full force! At first I found visits triggering or embarrassing. I'd panic and be shy or abrupt. Having been only recently immersed in the online ex-Mormon community (after 15+ of being out), I've actually spent endless hours listening to exmo experiences esp on Mormon Stories Podcast. I have cultivated a soft spot in my heart toward the LDS people (potential future-exmos!) as I self-psychoanalyze how much it was and will always be part of me for better or worse (a lot of 'worse'). I've given a lot of thought to Nemo's position that he considers them his people and his tribe. I'm surprising myself by beginning to think the same way... Hand in hand with that is Lindsay Hansen Park's viewpoint (creator of "Year of Polygamy"). She feels strongly that LDS and fLDS and the many other factions are all of the same origins, or each others' people. As much as we want to distance ourselves from them, she asserts that we are each others' responsibilities and we need to support those struggling in it or struggling to get out of it. I'm starting to feel this sense of my own purpose around the members. I'm the one who got out. They don't understand me or my decisions but I can understand them because I was there once and I can be empathetic to them. I can ask if THEY need anything when they're at my door. Last year, the relief society president on my doorstep was vulnerable with me, revealing her adult daughter has left the church and their relationship was suffering. I was too myopic to see she may have needed my help understanding her daughter a little better. We chatted pleasantly, though. If there's a next time I'll see if I can respond better. I'll probably even say yes to the next missionary offering help with a project. All this to say, I actually don't mind the periodic visits anymore because I view it as an opportunity for connection with other humans sharing common roots, instead of as a threat to the life I've built away from the church. Edited to add: Please play nice with the missionaries. They are teenagers and many are suffering with personal struggles. Let's show them compassion.
I'm not mormon but stumbled into the Mormon Stories universe. After hearing some of the stories about the missionary experience I feel sorry for the few who come to my door. Serving in the states probably isn't as stressful as overseas but it must still be disorienting for them.
Yes. I was in Oregon on my mission and people were so nasty. I was just a stupid kid that didn't know any better and was doing what everyone expected of me back home. I've always struggled with anxiety and tracting really made me miserable. I just wanted to blend in and be ignored. It was so miserable. Whenever someone was kind, it helped me survive a little longer though. 10 years later, I'm finally leaving. You don't know what they are going through or where they may end up someday after they've matured and learned more about the church, so just be kind and treat them like they're people too.
Yes. Leave a lasting loving impression on the missionaries. Try to teach them something new. Show them you care about them by having them over for dinner. They will remember how Christ like you were compared to others who slam the door in their face and call them a cult.
@@sirshramp5934 Agree about having compassion for young missionaries. Usually I just say I have my own philosophy of life and no thanks. But what good can you say about an organization that sends young, poorly trained people to propound on the finer points of a somewhat obscure religion seeking to export a middle class and largely white lifestyle to the rest of the world ?
I just officially resigned last week. My local bishop asked me if I wanted members to check on me annually. I told him no. I also gave an old address and not my current one and asked for my confirmation letter to be sent to my atheist Dad's address. I used an old email address to write my registration email. I have some life events coming up this year that will require me to move out of the current town I'm in. When I get there, I'm planning on changing my phone number. I'm determined to disappear.
@@unicorntamer2207 nothing dramatic. I told them I wasn’t interested and didn’t see them again. It was just so creepy to me that they showed up on my doorstep after I moved. At that time it was very different and I still don’t know how they found my new address.
I’m still part of my singles ward group chat though I don’t go anymore and they always announce the dates and times that they’re doing missionary work for their inactive members, so I always make sure I’m not at home when they come 😅
Sounds mature. Or you couold just tell them you don't want to continue to be a memebr and to remove your name. Unless you really don't mean it. Of course, I wonder why you stay in the chat if you don't still have some interest...
I was in a New York City ward and spent hours tracking the “less active” then assigning people to make contact. What did we learn? Many many people move to NYC to get lost. On purpose. I’m sure that’s the case in every big city. The bishop was not happy with my results. He berated me in leadership meetings and reassigned the duty to a priesthood holder. Obviously too big a job for a mere female.
In about 2015 or so one of my callings was to find lost Young Single Adults who where on the YSA ward roster and update their current information. I am a diligent searcher with social media, calling etc. I had ZERO success after months of diligence. Lots of word of mouth info, but nothing that could move the records out of the YSA ward. I'm sorry to all the parents I called asking for information. So sorry. I've posted before how I have received a call from SLC looking for the current address of my adult children and I have refused, was chastised, then I called them so un Christlike for threatening me the parent for not turning over my children's private info. I'm pretty sure I also said that I didn't have any proof that they were who they said they were and I thought I might be scammed if I continued.
I moved from my ‘home ward’ and never updated my address. I moved a couple more times and lived in an apartment that even delivery drivers had trouble finding. One day I hear a Knock on my door and it’s ‘my visiting teachers’ with a mothers day plant for me. I wasn’t a mother, I’d never even talked to anyone in the ward and again had loved several times since I was on church records. It was totally stalkery and creepy. They then kept leaving gift and sending mail even after I let the bishop know I wanted to be left alone. Last straw was a bag of apricots, half of which were rotten and left a stain on the common area carpet outside my door. Frankly? This was what led me to having my name removed from the church record. Even now I still get missionaries emailing me on Facebook. Its asinine.
After years of harassment I Finally removed my name. Didn’t hear from them for a whole 2 months. Then they showed up asking for my husband, who has never been a member. It’s ridiculous
This explains the "miraculous" appearance of elders at my door in 2017, who just "happened" to be proselytizing in my neighborhood. After my dad died, they lost track of me for a long time. In 2017, I met a mormon woman at work who assured me the church had made great changes in the 30 years I had chosen not to attend. It wasn't too long after that the missionaries appeared on my doorstep.
I stopped going to church about 12 years ago and then 5 years ago I had my name taken off church records. So for seven years, not one visit. The name removed and two separate visitors from church members who I remembered from years ago. Both times I asked them not to come back. Luckily, they listened the second time. Perhaps it was because I had been sunbathing in the garden and opened the door in my swimsuit, thinking it was my friend I was expecting. Made me laugh when the older man couldn’t rush back to his car, fast enough. 😂
Even when I was fully active in the church I thought the way the church went about trying to contact and visit people was harassment. The new system seems like stalking. That lady also seems like she really doesn't want to be there. Perhaps someone should give her a copy of the CES Letter.
The interesting thing is, the "3 simple steps" outlined for this new program have been used for decades. Doing the same stuff, just with a different name.
Many wards in Canada currently only have a 10-15% activity rate. The activity rate was 25% or more ten years ago. Many people have just given up on the church for different reasons.
The best missionary efforts this church could make is by helping the poor, single mother's, the homeless, the downtrodden, the sick and mentally ill, the afflicted with trauma, abuse, drug addicted and alone. And to use their supposed power of the Priesthood to heal this fallen world. Instead they are "False Priests who Oppress". If they want to convert me...this is the best way to start convincing me that Jesus isn't offended they use his name, in their church title, but don't act anything like him. Just sayin'
Truthfully, as a member of a bishopric, we were tasked with doing something similar than theirs going through all the membership records going to their last known address, talking to the people there, and reporting back what we discovered. We also were encouraged to invite those people that we came in contact with to be members of the church sure to come, at least it really shows how corporate this is as it shows the church is more interested in retaining its members which I believe will lead into more tithing and fast offering contributions. Very corporate very shameful.
Did the ward tithing receipts increase after your efforts? Was this about 15 years ago? If this was only done in North America back then, it might be why there are so many more ways to reconnect - they've had decades to get their inner private investigator juices flowing....
@@MrGenejudson It wouldn't ioncrease tithing receipts. Just reconnecting with someone doesn't measn they'll immediately start paying tithing. In fact, it's unlikely. It's likened to Christ's parable of the lost sheep. Based on the logic here, He must have been corporate and only concerned with the wool and meat...
My son gave my records to my new ward. Then his father in law gave the new ward my phone number. I don't want to attend, but my son wants me active. Fun thing, they now send me notes telling me Jesus loves me? Wow
I am a former membership clerk of a local ward. Church hq did dump a lot of these records on us. I did a massive effort to clean the ward records. Due to church these policies and ward cooperation only the women were sent back to church hq because the elders quorum presidency would not respond to me blocking me from sending off male records. Of note I formally resigned over a year ago.
I was called as a membership locator in the late 1980's. We had a lot fewer resources back then, but still used every tool at our disposal to try and determine a current address for these lost sheep so we could set the home teachers loose on them. And there were no boundaries available to us that were too far that we would not cross them in this endeavor. Yeah. I cringe a lot when remembering these misdirected days of my youth.....
The silly part is that if inactive members want to come to church, they'll find out where the closest chapel is. If they don't come, they obviously don't want to. In my 13 years of working in leadership positions and trying to get people to be active in the church etc., there were probably only 4 or 5 people who came to church once or twice, but they didn't stay around. When I was ward clerk, I had two people tell me that it was okay to take their names off the records.
@@randyjordan5521 I hear you. At that time, there were at least 2 "lost" members I found who had moved out of state and had no idea where the church was in their new area. It wasn't like you could look it up online like you can today. Of course, if they had checked the local yellow pages.... Back in the day, the ward had no computers (some stakes had Apple II's), and membership records were kept on large index cards kept in a file drawer. Also, in answer to Nemo's question, if it is still organized today the same way it was then, the records of the "lost" members were kept in their own unit of the church established as a place to hold their records, and as such are still counted as members, etc for purposes of reporting. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.
@@deeperthings Yes, it was called the Address Unknown file. And I don't have any other questions. I was the ward clerk in three different wards in the '70s and '80s. In my first go-round, when I took over as ward clerk, I threw out all of the old obsolete IBM cards that were in the file cabinet. The previous ward clerk didn't even know that that system was no longer being used.
My wife and I quit attending church 30 years ago but have never removed our names from membership. We have only been inside a Mormon Church a few times since then to attend weddings and funerals of our relatives, all of who lived in other cities. We have moved several times during that 30 years and the Church has always found us. We suspect that it was a certain cousin that had something to do with that, but were never sure. Every time we were contacted by someone from the new ward we asked to be left alone and in every case our request was honored.
Why, if you don't want to be contacted, you are unwilling to remove your name from the membership. You are right, that it's likely a family member reporting your location. Any new ward is not going to know that you don't want to be contacted, and so should reach out to you.
I am in the same situation. Technically, I'm still a member, and the church will gladly include me in its general membership count. I don't like the term "lost" because it has a negative connotation, as you have somehow lost your way from the "truth.". That may be the way the LDS leadership looks at it, but it is not correct. Anyone who wants to contact his or her local ward just has to look at a city directory or do a web search. As a Seventy, I really felt that I had a responsibility to bring back those sheep who had somehow astray. Not doing so would doom them to a less happy life and afterlife. And that would fall on me, in a way. In the back of my mind I felt that if they were "lost" it was because they were doing something wrong or living immoral lives. In a few cases that was true, but not always. I have been inactive for many years and have attended an LDS church only for funerals, unfortunately. I don't hate the church or its members -- many of whom are my siblings and relatives -- I just don't believe in its precepts anymore. Everything is counted in a LDS ward. The bishop wants to show high numbers at the various church meetings or he will get a talking to from the higher authorities at the stake level. Missionaries are under pressure, too, to be successful in bringing in many converts. It is shameful for them to return home without having at least one convert to their credit. I remember years ago that there was an idea floating around that if you converted one person to the church that you would be much favored by God and had a better chance of entering the Celestial Kingdom, the highest level of glory, according to LDS theology. As Nemo points out in his video, many times a person might not be truly converted but will join the church because of pressure from the missionaries, particularly if he likes them. But once they are baptized and the missionaries return home the new convert may lose interest in the church. It is up to the members to "fellowship" the new converts into the ward (local congregation) but that doesn't always happen. As a result you have all these inactive members on your records and your attendance figures are low and that makes your ward and its leadership look bad. I recall that one time there were two young sisters baptized into the church because they liked Donnie and Marie Osmond, who had a TV show at the time. Their dad didn't want them to be LDS but was pressured by some senior members of the church and he just gave in. The two girls were active for only a short period of time until they became inactive. I know because I taught them in Sunday school. I don't like the idea, also, that the church will try to track you down and call up people who may know you. Missionaries once called a family I was having a dispute with about a rental property, so they found out I was LDS. I These were not nice people, and I would have preferred that they know nothing about my personal life. I got a call from church headquarters in Salt Lake City once, some years ago, asking for contact information on my younger brother. The caller left a voice message and phone number. Even though I had that information I didn't provide it because I knew my brother also no longer believed in the church, and in his case was living a less than exemplry life. He knew where the church was if he wanted to return to the fold. Having written all, I have not technically left the church, but I have been visited by sister missionaries only a couple of times in the past ten years or so. They really do mean well and are nice people. If you tell them to leave you alone they will. One time a young missionary wanted to sit down with me and talk about what my concerns were about the church. I told him I didn't have the time. The real reason was that I didn't want to challenge his faith in the church. If he was happy being LDS that was fine with me. I just didn't want to cause any doubts in his mind. I'm happy not being a member of any church, but I would be the last person to tell anyone else how to live his or her life.
@@gilbertodominguez5212 If you were trule a member, and it sounds like you were, then you know that " if you converted one person to the church that you would be much favored by God and had a better chance of entering the Celestial Kingdom, the highest level of glory, according to LDS theology" is false. "And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with Him (our Father in Heaven)..." talks about joy/happiness, and hss nothing to do with your salvation or glory whatsoever.
@@RichardChappell1 What is false, the concept or what I wrote? I recall one member proudly pointing to his wife, who converted when she married him, and saying he had his one convert. He did it in a good-natured way, but he still believed what he said. I can relate only what I experienced as a member. But this was a very long time ago. Maybe it really wasn't part of church doctrine, which does tend to change now and then. I've had other people question if I really were a member. Why would I lie about something like that? I met some good people in the LDS church, some of whom I I am still close to and have siblings who are members. Just because I discovered that the church wasn't true doesn't mean that they will, too, or maybe they won't. I would never tell them what to believe or not. That is a personal discovery which doesn't have anything to do with me. That passage you quoted still involves some type of reward, that being great joy in heaven with God. I guess you're right about salvation, though. But maybe I just don't know what you're getting at. In any event, I didn't post what I did to start a debate of any type, so I'll leave it that. I don't care what anyone believes as long as it doesn't impact me in some way.
@@gilbertodominguez5212 I think I was pretty specific what I was referring to. Your comments about typcal attitudes are fine - people have all kinds of crazy ideas. It's the doctrinal claim about the number of conversions contrinuting to attaining the Celestial Kingdom. Even the idea of a reward is not quite right - it says joy. As in the joy of a job well done - or seeing someone that you helped find salvation. It seems reductive to recontextualize it to something so basic as pay for service... And no, that doesn't really change. I don't necessarily suggest that you are lying, but that it was false information. It's pretty core concept, so it's a bit surprising.
I left of my own accord. I wasn't lost, and I had not strayed. I did go back for a time, but the cognitive dissonance reared its ugly head, and I realized that the church hadn't changed at all in the 30 years I had been gone.
Sadly resigning doesn't work either. I had my name taken off record in 1998. Then in 2021 my Mother, who remains an member, kept seeing my name and original baptism/ordinance details. Apparently my name only remained off record for 7 years, turning up by 2005. Bearing in mind GDPR required all organisations to obtain express permission from the individual to keep their personal data in 2018 - I heard nothing and had no idea they had magically rebaptized me! Even though there were still priesthood members around involved with my original exit, they wouldn't speak up to say the church was in error, so I had to resign again (Quitmormon, no letter this time). I don't know what game they are playing but the only true way to 'leave" is to be excommunicated.
Although lost in this Context is like the parable of Leaving the 99 to find the one sheep... But the reactivation practices is the reason I asked to be released from the bishopric it was not something I wanted to participate in... People should be free to Pursue whatever religious experience they want
I was thrilled to have them seek out this lost sheep so I could give them the the real gospel of Jesus Christ (1Cor 15:1-4) I mentioned that it was difficult to know what to believe in the church bc the book of Mormon contradicts the D&C in many places so how's a person to know what to stand firm in! It is so fun to have them drop over so I can give them biblical truth, but for some odd reason they haven't come by for about 5 years. I wonder how much I've messed up their perfect charts and plan! 🤭🤗
I wonder if The Church is in full compliance with the Data Protection laws that exist across Europe, when it comes to passing names and addresses around and across the Atlantic?
Churches will rely on the "consent" of the member. If you are on their records 'by consent' then the dissemination of those records/information is lawful. Its like you moving and changing your doctor your records go with you UNLESS you specifically request them not to. They can be transferred 'within' that organisation without data protection laws being compromised.
The principle of finding and looking after the lost sheep comes from Jesus Christ s teachings. We have a responsibility to care for and support all members whether they are actively engaged in Church participation or not , hence we approach and extend the hand of fellowship to those who may not have been to Church for some time. Nobody forces any person to join the Church. It is a decision the person makes of their own free will. That is an important Gospel teaching. Likewise a member who no longer wishes to be a member of the Church is free to request that their membership is removed and not to be contacted by the Church. As for myself l love being a follower of Jesus Christ. The Church administers His Gospel and that has given me much inner peace and support and joy in life. We all have challenges and difficulties in life and the Gospel principle of looking after each other certainly has blessed my life. I had a struggle with cancer and the friendship and love and concern from fellow members surely helped me through a most difficult time in my life, having also a young family to support. I am just so grateful for the Lord organising such a wonderful Church. 😊🙏❤️
Thank you, Nemo, for continuing to enlighten, educate, and when appropriate entertain us with your passion, your knowledge and your obvious desire to shed light on the truth. Hats off to you, young man! (I "defected as a teenager many decades ago but somehow, some way - even in the 1970's - my records would show up prompting a knock on the door - exasperating back then and now, this? Wow! ... glad I removed myself officially)
They say "leave the church alone" when you state your opinions on how awful it is but they won't leave YOU alone because they need to bring back people to Jesus to feel self righteous 🧍
The church also did a pilot program in Utah to find ways to reach out to and reactivate return missionaries who NO longer attend. I was in the ward missionary group of a ward tasked with directing this pilot in our ward and Stake. We were "Chosen" to pilot reactivation efforts for a targeted group. 2017 to 2019, is when this happened in our Stake.
This finding lost members program has been going on for at least half a century. My amusing experience: I got my first baptism on my mission in Brisbane, Australia in 1974. Three years later, in my ward in Montgomery, Alabama, I got a notice from the church membership department asking me if I knew the lady's location. I was literally on the opposite side of the planet from her, and I hadn't heard from her since I was transferred away from her area. Several months after baptizing her, I heard from a long-time member that she had stopped coming to church because someone in the stake had asked her to contribute $100 to put a new floor in the gym of the stake center, which wasn't even her home chapel. She was not a person of means, and that apparently turned her off to the church shortly after we had worked hard to get her baptized.
I had a random call asking if I had contact info for my father. Nope. Two minutes later, phone rang again. Same old guy asked why I didn’t have a relationship with my father! I said I couldn’t see how that was any of his business. He said well, he guessed it wasn’t so I said ok then and hung up.
@@DancingQueenie That reminds me of when a year after my family resigned from the church, we gave our youngest daughter a 12th birthday party. We rented a room in a motel that had a nice indoor pool where the kids could swim in January. Everybody in my family had left for the motel except for me. I was about to leave, when there was a knock on the door. It was a stake high councilor and his wife from our old ward. They had come to invite my daughter to some young's women's activity. Because we had resigned from the church a year earlier, their visit told me that they had come because they got some sort of an automatic computer printout that listed the kids in the ward who were turning 12 and thus were of age to attend young women's. Our daughter's name must have been on the printout. That would have been the only reason they knew to come to our house on her 12th birthday. So to turn a phrase, you can leave the church, but the church won't leave you alone. I told them where my family was, and that I was about to go there too. They seemed a kinda surprised that I, an evil apostate, was actually doing something with and for my family, instead of laying around drunk and beating my kids every night, I suppose. Before they left, I asked them how their son Junior was doing. They seemed embarrassed that I would even mention his name. The reason being, Junior, who was about 19, had raped a 14 year old girl in the ward, and he was in state prison. I guess that because we had left the church before that incident happened, the couple didn't know that I knew about it. But boy, after I simply asked them how their son was doing, they couldn't get out the door fast enough. I hadn't thought about that incident for many years until I read your story about the church guy calling you.
@@randyjordan5521 Wow. You could turn that into an O. Henry-style story! Mormon culture definitely has an US vs THEM assumption that THEY are all evil. When I moved from Utah to NYC, I was surprised that THEY were very good people.
You know I think I was in that rare category of "drifting member" I was questioning a lot of the church's decisions and my church attendance slowly faded very gradually till all the things added up in my head that it wasn't true. I remember there was a time I went maybe once a month when I felt like it for about a year.
Membership and finance are the same department? Why does that make so much sense for the LDC? BTW - Conference speaking tone seriously triggers me now. I gotta go drink some wine.
I presume it was the bishop or the stake president came by our house in Utah with the elders. Once they learned, we left the church 20 years ago. The old man said “well what can we do to get you back?” my response was “change your history.?” to which he laughed and nodded and they left my porch. It’s in our exit letter that the LDS church is not to ever contact us or we will take legal action they don’t seem to care or research any of that they come by at least once a year, and they get to learn something horrific about their religion and the founder.
The church had a test program in my mission called the balanced effort. It used missionaries and members to reactivate inactive members. There were five missions in North America that took part. It has been discontinued as a program. We found members inactive for more than two years were pretty much gone forever. There was the odd exception but you really had only 24 months to reactivate them in the church.
I haven't been to church in over 20 years, but they've chased me down through two apartments and two home purchases. They even changed my name to my husband's name on the membership records even though I never changed it when we got married. That tells me someone stalked our marriage license or property tax records and made an assumption about my married name. I finally tried to formally withdraw from membership this past summer but my bishop seems to be undermining it as I've never gotten any kind of confirmation from the Church.
I insisted 20 years back I wanted my records removed. They were. However my children's records and x wife were not so when I found out from neighbours that 2 male members of the Church were asking personal questions about me and my family etc in my tiny community I was rather upset for a number of reasons! However I gave them a taste of their own medicine and sought out the men responsible, found out where they lived and asked their neighbours similar questions like do you know that your neighbour is a priest, and holds office in the Mormon Church. To my utter suprise their neighbours did not even know they were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints but now they do and can't keep their little secret hidden anymore. I got a phone call from a bishop who seemed quite upset that I had spoken to his neighbours. Oh the irony of life!
They certainly know where I am. I live next door to the bishop! My wife is TBM, but I'm totally inactive. I do go to the sacrament meeting to support her, but don't take the sacrament. I leave after that meeting. I wonder if they'll now bother me ... I'm old and we're empty nesters, so maybe they figure I'm a lost cause. They'd be right.
OMG!!! My son (5 years) just received a Friend magazine in the mail with the last name spelled way wrong. He wasn’t even blessed into the church and my husband is the only one with records still. We have no idea who or why it was sent to our house. It creeps me out!
It’s been a while, but I remember a time when we got regular calls asking if we knew where a family lived that my husband had baptized while we lived in a different state. We also got calls asking for my husband’s brother’s address. I remember feeling the inappropriateness of providing this information. I couldn’t even be sure it was someone from the church asking for the info. Once, I told the caller I would ask the person they were seeking if it was okay to give their contact information to the church. If they granted permission, I would call the church 10:52 back. Ironically, the caller wouldn’t give me their phone number. They said they’d continue to call me. 😂😂😂
I was found in 2021 and received a letter via the USPS from a local bishop stating they had received my records, welcomed me to the ward, and provided me with his and the elder's quorum president's emails. I had made 2 attempts in years previous to resign (via quit mormon and another program that was tried), but never received an official response and didn't want to expend resources to litigate the church for the lack of response. I took the opportunity to use their provided emails to tell them I'm a happy member of the LGBTQ+ community, have found places of worship with better theology who were welcoming and inclusive of gay/queer people, and had no desire to remain a member of the LDS church and asked for a resignation of membership. While there was no response from these local leaders to my request, within a week or so, I received the standard form letter by email from the church membership records department that my resignation had been processed, etc.
I moved away to college and 2 missionaries I used to know just showed up to my place. Apparently they just happened to be transferred to where I was living and my dad gave them my address. I was very confused when I saw them tho lol
Wow Nemo, you’ve done a fantastic job with your documentation. Thank you. I found this whole “training video” so sickening sweet! They all read from a prompter in the Sweet, condescending Utah style. The idea that Jesus justifies their stalker-ways is just creepy! I now tell people who want to contact me for the Church that I’m an atheist. No more religious talk for me! Haven’t had a visit for quite awhile 😉
2 Mormon missionaries came by 4 weeks ago after not having someone by for about 7 years here: I did see 2 riding their bikes before covid hit but I think they were only doing appointments. As the yearly visits stopped! Or they bypassed my house for obvious reasons that I know the Bible and Christianity better than they do. No, brag just fact. The JW'S have also stopped coming to my house as they get nowhere also. We will see if both groups continue door to door or try to just set up appointments as those would be more profitable. I did fill out a card at a temple visiting area and missionaries did come out but that was in the 70's and I had help from one of Sanda Tanner's volunteers from her bookstore in Anaheim California. It was interesting because the 2 young missionaries brought their missionary ward supervisor along probably because it was a scheduled appointment and he drove the car for them. Their teaching time basically became a discussion or friendly debate and we did quite well as that was the first time I have challenged their beliefs in a formal way outside of just at the door.
I used to be an active LDS member and our ward did have a program to visit inactive members. It was not great having to go around and finding people who obviously wanted to be left alone or watching someone smoke a cigarette in front of you. Now I'm the one who wants to be left alone. Haven't been to church for a long time and don't intend to ever return, but I have not requested that my records be removed, if only because most of my family are still members. My wife is not LDS, so they don't care about her. Home teachers used to come by and when I didn't answer the door they would go to my neighbor's house to inquire about me. Of course, they didn't know if I was home, etc. Next they sent male missionaries and finally lady missionaries. My wife would watch them from the window. They've must've changed the standards because the women were dressed more informally. Saw some lady missionaries at my branch library. They didn't know because I had never opened the door to them. One of them was dour-faced and looked unhappy. She was like something out of the pioneer days.
"Stalking and harrassment..." Those were the exact words that came to my mind and that I expressed to the bishopric member and "minister" who appeared on my doorstep a few months after I stopped going to church and moved. I followed them up by saying that further attempts to contact me might lead me to contacting the authorities. I never heard from them again.
About 15 years ago, I rented a room from a Mormon couple. While they were away, 2 missionaries showed up to convert. I was happy to talk to them but am agnostic and talked with them a few minutes. I mentioned the homeowners were Mormon. They looked hella confused. They even questioned me on it. Yes, they attend services. 😂 When I told the homeowners later what happened, they said they prefer to go to their old ward from before they moved. I had no idea back then how up in your business the LDS church is.
I am do glad I officially resigned and it was official effective 11-3-2022. I had not been "active" for 14 years. Don't they have better things to do with their time and resources? You riock, Nemo!
Even when I was active I used to sit in word councils and wonder "are you people that stupid to realize these people probably don't want to be contacted". Most people know where the local Mormon church is and if they want to come back they will. Most people are just caught up in the system and can't see the fact that they are so delusional.
Why am I not getting harassed by the Church? I was a convert and haven't been to a service for nearly 13 years and I never got contacted. And I live in Utah, too!
I kinda strayed. I always hated going and figured an all loving god wouldn't care so long as I was being the best person I could be. So I stopped going. Didn't discover the truth claims or the immoral practices till a couple of years ago. But I was also never super invested in the first place.
We have not removed our records, but I deleted our email addresses and phone numbers from the LDS tools. Luckily, I told me parents to not provide my new address to the church and they were respectful.
This looks like it applies to last 10 years worth of converts. What happens to records older than 10 years ago? What is disturbing is just how much information is online as in the form of various property/RE tax records, registrations etc.
🤣😂🤣 this is how I FINALLY got excommunicated they sent me a letter to my "last name" from 18 yrs prior to an address where I had moved at least 23 times (from state to state if you know how big the US is the west alone is same size as all of Europe) had been married for 17 yrs to the father of my 4 chicken , I was LIVID !! 😡😡😡 I called them up & gave them a piece of my mind & directed her to "find my records...🙄 You see the delete button?... HIT IT!!! I didn't know I was excommunicated until my mother's funeral where her cousin Dallon H. Oaks spoke (I didn't hear a word he said 🤣😂🤣) I guess that's why my mom & Dad never replied to my many letters while they were on their mission to Bolivia in 1999 through 2001 lol
I had my membership formally removed from Church records. However I remain on generally friendly terms with local ward members. Sisters have stopped by, however they cannot stay since no females live with me. Fact is I know a lot more about theology and church history (not LDS) than most missionaries do.
I wonder how many units were instructed to not approach the finding efforts prayerfully so that they know that it is less effective. . The only time I know of this kind of effort being appreciated by the intentionally not active members was told to me by a member of a bishopric on my mission. Part of their efforts to get into contact with these people was to ask them if they wanted their names removed. They had so many that SLC told them that they were submitting too many. They negotiated with SLC to be allowed to submit a certain number each week. The next few visits with the people who wanted their names removed was to keep them updated.
Remember tracking down people who had "strayed" on my mission. What a fool's errand. We ran into "members" who literally didn't know they belonged to the church. I deeply regret bothering these people. If the church were serious about not having people stray, they would stopped the highly-pressured and rushed baptisms by missionaries. It's such a ridiculous cycle they perpetuate. This is simply a tactic to perpetuate artificially-inflated, world-wide membership numbers while simultaneously giving members a delusional representation of local activity rates. It begs the question why this organization can't simply and finally live up to the 13th Article of Faith. "We believe in being honest..."
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FINDING NEMO!
Are you still active?
Notice that the guy is part of the finance arm of the church. Just say it, dude! You're looking for that 10%.
Oooh, that ending line, "You can leave the church, the church can't leave you alone." Killer.
Unless they don't like you to begin with..names on record , live in the same ward..yet in the many years I have not graced their doors, only twice have they ever tried to contact us..guess when you have a ward that its leadership at the time actively "worked" with secret combinations to try to get the bank to not allow the loan at the last minute at the signing as revealed by the secretary at the bank when the rep left the room and revealed what was REALLY giong on..I guess if you where never wanted and worked against to buy a home by the vary ward your in by its members, then if you don't show up after living their 30 years p#ssing them off..I guess they don't come trying to get you back..even after changing the status of divorced single mom, that was the supposed revealed reason the working against me church members felt was the reason to secret combination against me to try to get my loan denied..yep Clearly I knew my rights and got that loan as soon as I threatened to lawyer up..how fast that back rep claimed it was all a big mistake and whipped out those closing documents for me to sign
😂🤣😂 Amen my brother/(or sister 🙄)
We didn't stray. We escaped
😂👍
Praise the lord we are free !
I’m not lost, I did not stray… I left. Please respect that and leave me alone.
I investigated for a year or so and I am so glad I was never baptized and confirmed. This corporation crosses all sorts of lines.
Good on you for taking the time to really look at things instead of getting roped in hard and fast.
The missionaries found me. They stopped by 3 times, but now, even after asking them to stop by and teach me they won't. They won't even respond to my texts anymore. All I did was ask about D&C 20:65 and the Law of Common Consent. If you want the church to leave you alone and ignore you all you've gotta do is ask a controversial question.
The only people they won't mess with are people who actually know about the church
Sorry I'm a curious nevermo. Can you please explain what do those mean and why they have such effect?
@@louhi6015 D&C stands for doctrine and covenants, and is in reference to a set of holy Mormon scriptures. The law of common consent was a law that is no longer used which once taught that for a revelation to be enacted, everyone had to vote on it first. They no longer do this and just tell people what to do
@@theeight-roadwanderer6286 well said.
@@louhi6015 watch some Mormon history, the CES letter is good and Dan Vogel is great
Reading these comments makes me realize how “blessed” I have been for having no one try to contact me at my door for 7 years! The church did however, contact my 87 year old mother asking her for my address. I know she wanted them to find her but I was so impressed by her that she wanted to ask me first. She supported me in leaving the church but it added so much to her feelings of failure as a mother. Not long before she died, she told me how much of a failure she thought she was because out of four children, only one was a believer. She was an amazing woman. So sad that the church made her feel like a failure.
I was contacted by ward members multiple times at two separate places I've lived over the years, around the time I became open with my TBM family with the concerns and questions I had about the church around 20 years ago. At one home, members showed up a handful of times over several months, even though I told them each time I was not interested and their visits were not welcome. The last visit from them ended with my nevermo husband answering the door, telling them to get off of our property and that he would contact the police if any of the church's representatives showed up on our porch again. Life moved us to another state, and the visits continued. My TBM family just couldn't be straight with me when I asked if they were requesting the local ward come by our new home. By then I had been inactive for years, and had not updated my address with the church at all during that time. I finally decided to resign to get the visits to stop, and all hell broke loose with my family of origin when I took that step. What can they possibly expect when you've had enough of the overstepping of boundaries, from the church and your own "well-meaning" family?
We did the same. Only resignation caused the pestering to stop.
Same here! But I never told my family that I resigned. Not their business
So, let me get this straight. You, at some point, joined the Church, decided it wasn't for you, you refuse to remove yourself from the membership, but it's somehow the Church's fault when they check on you? Got it.
@@RichardChappell1 obviously doesn’t understand how difficult the church makes it to removes one’s own records.
@@cameronbrown5134 Oh yeah, it's so increeeedibly difficult. You have to write a letter requesting it. You send a copy to the local Stake President and the Membership Records Dept. at Church headquarters. It might take all of a half hour and a couple of weeks to process.
How hard...
I can’t believe I used to listen to automatons like this and not think anything was amiss. The brainwash is deep. Good job Nemo as always!
Down right unsettling. They even look like carbon copied clones.
They sound dead inside.
As I was thinking about what I wanted to comment on and looking at the woman speaking, I could see how she was robotic like, non-human like a clone. 40 years I did this. Did I appear to look that dead too? I really thought I was a lot more animated. Perhaps I just wasn't with the popular crowd at church. I was a lot more real.
I strayed. I was walking down the street one day, my trusty iron rod in my hand, when I passed a coffee shop that just...smelled TOO good to resist. Since I couldn't fit the rod through the door, I must have dropped it. I've been wandering around aimlessly ever since, following my every sinful impulse and being a general menace to society. 😆
In all seriousness, though, as someone who just recently stepped away from the Church and has not removed their records because so far things have been quiet enough, it's good to learn about this now. I'm about to move, but I'm still in Utah and have no doubt I will be tracked down and reached out to by various people and probably through various means. I want to be fair and polite and friendly to them because I understand where they'll be coming from, but if it gets bad, I'll know whom to blame!
Good luck with the move. In many areas of Utah, your ward will consist of just a few blocks, and you and the other one or two nonmember households within those boundaries will receive a copious amount of attention. You will be their new project. Don't be afraid to make friends with them while also setting firm boundaries that you aren't interested in any church stuff.
Hahaha!
Yes, that’s likely the case of you don’t get your records removed
The jazz music adds a sitcom feel to the proceedings 👌
Gotta spruce it up somehow!
It is interesting to see that the Church leadership still doesn’t get why so many young people are leaving the Church. It is not because they got lost, but because they found out the truth.
Tell us the whole truth, apologize, change, and then people might want to come back again.
My sister so kindly transferred my records from my last ward to my new address in another state. She sure saved everybody a lot of time searching for me 😂😭 With a recent ward reorganization/consolidation, their interest has been renewed at full force! At first I found visits triggering or embarrassing. I'd panic and be shy or abrupt. Having been only recently immersed in the online ex-Mormon community (after 15+ of being out), I've actually spent endless hours listening to exmo experiences esp on Mormon Stories Podcast. I have cultivated a soft spot in my heart toward the LDS people (potential future-exmos!) as I self-psychoanalyze how much it was and will always be part of me for better or worse (a lot of 'worse'). I've given a lot of thought to Nemo's position that he considers them his people and his tribe. I'm surprising myself by beginning to think the same way... Hand in hand with that is Lindsay Hansen Park's viewpoint (creator of "Year of Polygamy"). She feels strongly that LDS and fLDS and the many other factions are all of the same origins, or each others' people. As much as we want to distance ourselves from them, she asserts that we are each others' responsibilities and we need to support those struggling in it or struggling to get out of it.
I'm starting to feel this sense of my own purpose around the members. I'm the one who got out. They don't understand me or my decisions but I can understand them because I was there once and I can be empathetic to them. I can ask if THEY need anything when they're at my door. Last year, the relief society president on my doorstep was vulnerable with me, revealing her adult daughter has left the church and their relationship was suffering. I was too myopic to see she may have needed my help understanding her daughter a little better. We chatted pleasantly, though. If there's a next time I'll see if I can respond better. I'll probably even say yes to the next missionary offering help with a project.
All this to say, I actually don't mind the periodic visits anymore because I view it as an opportunity for connection with other humans sharing common roots, instead of as a threat to the life I've built away from the church.
Edited to add: Please play nice with the missionaries. They are teenagers and many are suffering with personal struggles. Let's show them compassion.
I'm not mormon but stumbled into the Mormon Stories universe. After hearing some of the stories about the missionary experience I feel sorry for the few who come to my door. Serving in the states probably isn't as stressful as overseas but it must still be disorienting for them.
Yes. I was in Oregon on my mission and people were so nasty. I was just a stupid kid that didn't know any better and was doing what everyone expected of me back home. I've always struggled with anxiety and tracting really made me miserable. I just wanted to blend in and be ignored. It was so miserable. Whenever someone was kind, it helped me survive a little longer though.
10 years later, I'm finally leaving.
You don't know what they are going through or where they may end up someday after they've matured and learned more about the church, so just be kind and treat them like they're people too.
Yes. Leave a lasting loving impression on the missionaries. Try to teach them something new. Show them you care about them by having them over for dinner. They will remember how Christ like you were compared to others who slam the door in their face and call them a cult.
@@sirshramp5934 Agree about having compassion for young missionaries. Usually I just say I have my own philosophy of life and no thanks. But what good can you say about an organization that sends young, poorly trained people to propound on the finer points of a somewhat obscure religion seeking to export a middle class and largely white lifestyle to the rest of the world ?
I just officially resigned last week. My local bishop asked me if I wanted members to check on me annually. I told him no. I also gave an old address and not my current one and asked for my confirmation letter to be sent to my atheist Dad's address. I used an old email address to write my registration email. I have some life events coming up this year that will require me to move out of the current town I'm in. When I get there, I'm planning on changing my phone number. I'm determined to disappear.
Good luck!! They found me after I moved back in the ‘80’s before the internet.
@@ginamiller6754 What happened when they found you?
@@unicorntamer2207 nothing dramatic. I told them I wasn’t interested and didn’t see them again. It was just so creepy to me that they showed up on my doorstep after I moved. At that time it was very different and I still don’t know how they found my new address.
@@ginamiller6754 But it wasn't just missionaries randomly knocking? They were specifically looking for you?
@@unicorntamer2207 yes, they knew my name
They have over 10 million members they need to find at this point. I bet they can't get more than a couple hundred come back
I’m still part of my singles ward group chat though I don’t go anymore and they always announce the dates and times that they’re doing missionary work for their inactive members, so I always make sure I’m not at home when they come 😅
Smart!
Sounds mature. Or you couold just tell them you don't want to continue to be a memebr and to remove your name. Unless you really don't mean it.
Of course, I wonder why you stay in the chat if you don't still have some interest...
@@RichardChappell1 it's not that deep Richard.
I was in a New York City ward and spent hours tracking the “less active” then assigning people to make contact. What did we learn? Many many people move to NYC to get lost. On purpose. I’m sure that’s the case in every big city. The bishop was not happy with my results. He berated me in leadership meetings and reassigned the duty to a priesthood holder. Obviously too big a job for a mere female.
Indeed, your lack of priesthood was obviously the issue /s
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Right? Although I didn’t see any better results when the worthy elder took over. Such a pointless time suck.
@@DancingQueenie that doesn't happen...lol sorry I couldn't help myself
@@tysonh424 Lol? I don’t get the joke. What is it that doesn’t happen?
@@DancingQueenie treating women as incompetent because they don’t have the priesthood
In about 2015 or so one of my callings was to find lost Young Single Adults who where on the YSA ward roster and update their current information. I am a diligent searcher with social media, calling etc. I had ZERO success after months of diligence. Lots of word of mouth info, but nothing that could move the records out of the YSA ward. I'm sorry to all the parents I called asking for information. So sorry. I've posted before how I have received a call from SLC looking for the current address of my adult children and I have refused, was chastised, then I called them so un Christlike for threatening me the parent for not turning over my children's private info. I'm pretty sure I also said that I didn't have any proof that they were who they said they were and I thought I might be scammed if I continued.
I moved from my ‘home ward’ and never updated my address. I moved a couple more times and lived in an apartment that even delivery drivers had trouble finding. One day I hear a
Knock on my door and it’s ‘my visiting teachers’ with a mothers day plant for me. I wasn’t a mother, I’d never even talked to anyone in the ward and again had loved several times since I was on church records. It was totally stalkery and creepy. They then kept leaving gift and sending mail even after I let the bishop know I wanted to be left alone. Last straw was a bag of apricots, half of which were rotten and left a stain on the common area carpet outside my door. Frankly? This was what led me to having my name removed from the church record. Even now I still get missionaries emailing me on Facebook. Its asinine.
Like Gollum said Tricksty they are.
After years of harassment I Finally removed my name. Didn’t hear from them for a whole 2 months. Then they showed up asking for my husband, who has never been a member. It’s ridiculous
Watch out for low flying drones…they are capable of anything….🤣🛸🤣
This explains the "miraculous" appearance of elders at my door in 2017, who just "happened" to be proselytizing in my neighborhood. After my dad died, they lost track of me for a long time. In 2017, I met a mormon woman at work who assured me the church had made great changes in the 30 years I had chosen not to attend. It wasn't too long after that the missionaries appeared on my doorstep.
I stopped going to church about 12 years ago and then 5 years ago I had my name taken off church records. So for seven years, not one visit. The name removed and two separate visitors from church members who I remembered from years ago.
Both times I asked them not to come back. Luckily, they listened the second time. Perhaps it was because I had been sunbathing in the garden and opened the door in my swimsuit, thinking it was my friend I was expecting. Made me laugh when the older man couldn’t rush back to his car, fast enough. 😂
🤣 That's the trick ladies and gentlemen, always answer the door in a bikini!
You could start smoking weed right before opening the door.
@@hovester Brian, I am in England... I’d be arrested lol
@@donna5847 Okay that makes sense. I live in California so I would be fine.
Once I figured out what LDS was truly about, I did not ‘stray’: I exited post-haste …and that is where I intend to remain.
Even when I was fully active in the church I thought the way the church went about trying to contact and visit people was harassment. The new system seems like stalking. That lady also seems like she really doesn't want to be there. Perhaps someone should give her a copy of the CES Letter.
The interesting thing is, the "3 simple steps" outlined for this new program have been used for decades. Doing the same stuff, just with a different name.
@@erstwhile3793 You mentioned bringing up that these people had adult status. That's a good point. The church seldom treats members like adults.
I am not lost. I have been found with Christ
I've been found in a stripper club. I regret nothing! 😏
Amen....
That women sounds totally dead inside
Probably worn out from love bombing
Many wards in Canada currently only have a 10-15% activity rate. The activity rate was 25% or more ten years ago. Many people have just given up on the church for different reasons.
The best missionary efforts this church could make is by helping the poor, single mother's, the homeless, the downtrodden, the sick and mentally ill, the afflicted with trauma, abuse, drug addicted and alone. And to use their supposed power of the Priesthood to heal this fallen world. Instead they are "False Priests who Oppress". If they want to convert me...this is the best way to start convincing me that Jesus isn't offended they use his name, in their church title, but don't act anything like him. Just sayin'
Truthfully, as a member of a bishopric, we were tasked with doing something similar than theirs going through all the membership records going to their last known address, talking to the people there, and reporting back what we discovered. We also were encouraged to invite those people that we came in contact with to be members of the church sure to come, at least it really shows how corporate this is as it shows the church is more interested in retaining its members which I believe will lead into more tithing and fast offering contributions. Very corporate very shameful.
How horrible that someone would invite someone they use to associate to hang out with them again...
Did the ward tithing receipts increase after your efforts? Was this about 15 years ago? If this was only done in North America back then, it might be why there are so many more ways to reconnect - they've had decades to get their inner private investigator juices flowing....
@@MrGenejudson It wouldn't ioncrease tithing receipts. Just reconnecting with someone doesn't measn they'll immediately start paying tithing. In fact, it's unlikely. It's likened to Christ's parable of the lost sheep. Based on the logic here, He must have been corporate and only concerned with the wool and meat...
As if the bishopric didn’t have enough to do. So let’s make them waste a load of time on a futile attempt. But when you’re in, you don’t question.
@@RichardChappell1 You can spin it that way...what about the parable of the wolf in sheep's clothing??
Love the background music! 😆
Glad you like it!
Thanks for all of your terrific and important work! Love this video and everything you do.
My son gave my records to my new ward. Then his father in law gave the new ward my phone number. I don't want to attend, but my son wants me active. Fun thing, they now send me notes telling me Jesus loves me? Wow
I am a former membership clerk of a local ward. Church hq did dump a lot of these records on us. I did a massive effort to clean the ward records. Due to church these policies and ward cooperation only the women were sent back to church hq because the elders quorum presidency would not respond to me blocking me from sending off male records. Of note I formally resigned over a year ago.
I was called as a membership locator in the late 1980's. We had a lot fewer resources back then, but still used every tool at our disposal to try and determine a current address for these lost sheep so we could set the home teachers loose on them. And there were no boundaries available to us that were too far that we would not cross them in this endeavor.
Yeah. I cringe a lot when remembering these misdirected days of my youth.....
The silly part is that if inactive members want to come to church, they'll find out where the closest chapel is. If they don't come, they obviously don't want to. In my 13 years of working in leadership positions and trying to get people to be active in the church etc., there were probably only 4 or 5 people who came to church once or twice, but they didn't stay around. When I was ward clerk, I had two people tell me that it was okay to take their names off the records.
@@randyjordan5521 I hear you. At that time, there were at least 2 "lost" members I found who had moved out of state and had no idea where the church was in their new area. It wasn't like you could look it up online like you can today. Of course, if they had checked the local yellow pages....
Back in the day, the ward had no computers (some stakes had Apple II's), and membership records were kept on large index cards kept in a file drawer.
Also, in answer to Nemo's question, if it is still organized today the same way it was then, the records of the "lost" members were kept in their own unit of the church established as a place to hold their records, and as such are still counted as members, etc for purposes of reporting.
Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.
@@deeperthings Yes, it was called the Address Unknown file. And I don't have any other questions. I was the ward clerk in three different wards in the '70s and '80s. In my first go-round, when I took over as ward clerk, I threw out all of the old obsolete IBM cards that were in the file cabinet. The previous ward clerk didn't even know that that system was no longer being used.
My wife and I quit attending church 30 years ago but have never removed our names from membership. We have only been inside a Mormon Church a few times since then to attend weddings and funerals of our relatives, all of who lived in other cities. We have moved several times during that 30 years and the Church has always found us. We suspect that it was a certain cousin that had something to do with that, but were never sure. Every time we were contacted by someone from the new ward we asked to be left alone and in every case our request was honored.
Why, if you don't want to be contacted, you are unwilling to remove your name from the membership. You are right, that it's likely a family member reporting your location. Any new ward is not going to know that you don't want to be contacted, and so should reach out to you.
I am in the same situation. Technically, I'm still a member, and the church will gladly include me in its general membership count. I don't like the term "lost" because it has a negative connotation, as you have somehow lost your way from the "truth.". That may be the way the LDS leadership looks at it, but it is not correct. Anyone who wants to contact his or her local ward just has to look at a city directory or do a web search. As a Seventy, I really felt that I had a responsibility to bring back those sheep who had somehow astray. Not doing so would doom them to a less happy life and afterlife. And that would fall on me, in a way. In the back of my mind I felt that if they were "lost" it was because they were doing something wrong or living immoral lives. In a few cases that was true, but not always. I have been inactive for many years and have attended an LDS church only for funerals, unfortunately. I don't hate the church or its members -- many of whom are my siblings and relatives -- I just don't believe in its precepts anymore.
Everything is counted in a LDS ward. The bishop wants to show high numbers at the various church meetings or he will get a talking to from the higher authorities at the stake level. Missionaries are under pressure, too, to be successful in bringing in many converts. It is shameful for them to return home without having at least one convert to their credit. I remember years ago that there was an idea floating around that if you converted one person to the church that you would be much favored by God and had a better chance of entering the Celestial Kingdom, the highest level of glory, according to LDS theology. As Nemo points out in his video, many times a person might not be truly converted but will join the church because of pressure from the missionaries, particularly if he likes them. But once they are baptized and the missionaries return home the new convert may lose interest in the church. It is up to the members to "fellowship" the new converts into the ward (local congregation) but that doesn't always happen. As a result you have all these inactive members on your records and your attendance figures are low and that makes your ward and its leadership look bad. I recall that one time there were two young sisters baptized into the church because they liked Donnie and Marie Osmond, who had a TV show at the time. Their dad didn't want them to be LDS but was pressured by some senior members of the church and he just gave in. The two girls were active for only a short period of time until they became inactive. I know because I taught them in Sunday school.
I don't like the idea, also, that the church will try to track you down and call up people who may know you. Missionaries once called a family I was having a dispute with about a rental property, so they found out I was LDS. I These were not nice people, and I would have preferred that they know nothing about my personal life. I got a call from church headquarters in Salt Lake City once, some years ago, asking for contact information on my younger brother. The caller left a voice message and phone number. Even though I had that information I didn't provide it because I knew my brother also no longer believed in the church, and in his case was living a less than exemplry life. He knew where the church was if he wanted to return to the fold.
Having written all, I have not technically left the church, but I have been visited by sister missionaries only a couple of times in the past ten years or so. They really do mean well and are nice people. If you tell them to leave you alone they will. One time a young missionary wanted to sit down with me and talk about what my concerns were about the church. I told him I didn't have the time. The real reason was that I didn't want to challenge his faith in the church. If he was happy being LDS that was fine with me. I just didn't want to cause any doubts in his mind. I'm happy not being a member of any church, but I would be the last person to tell anyone else how to live his or her life.
@@gilbertodominguez5212 If you were trule a member, and it sounds like you were, then you know that " if you converted one person to the church that you would be much favored by God and had a better chance of entering the Celestial Kingdom, the highest level of glory, according to LDS theology" is false.
"And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with Him (our Father in Heaven)..." talks about joy/happiness, and hss nothing to do with your salvation or glory whatsoever.
@@RichardChappell1 What is false, the concept or what I wrote? I recall one member proudly pointing to his wife, who converted when she married him, and saying he had his one convert. He did it in a good-natured way, but he still believed what he said. I can relate only what I experienced as a member. But this was a very long time ago. Maybe it really wasn't part of church doctrine, which does tend to change now and then. I've had other people question if I really were a member. Why would I lie about something like that? I met some good people in the LDS church, some of whom I I am still close to and have siblings who are members. Just because I discovered that the church wasn't true doesn't mean that they will, too, or maybe they won't. I would never tell them what to believe or not. That is a personal discovery which doesn't have anything to do with me. That passage you quoted still involves some type of reward, that being great joy in heaven with God. I guess you're right about salvation, though. But maybe I just don't know what you're getting at. In any event, I didn't post what I did to start a debate of any type, so I'll leave it that. I don't care what anyone believes as long as it doesn't impact me in some way.
@@gilbertodominguez5212 I think I was pretty specific what I was referring to. Your comments about typcal attitudes are fine - people have all kinds of crazy ideas. It's the doctrinal claim about the number of conversions contrinuting to attaining the Celestial Kingdom. Even the idea of a reward is not quite right - it says joy. As in the joy of a job well done - or seeing someone that you helped find salvation. It seems reductive to recontextualize it to something so basic as pay for service...
And no, that doesn't really change. I don't necessarily suggest that you are lying, but that it was false information. It's pretty core concept, so it's a bit surprising.
I left of my own accord. I wasn't lost, and I had not strayed. I did go back for a time, but the cognitive dissonance reared its ugly head, and I realized that the church hadn't changed at all in the 30 years I had been gone.
Sadly resigning doesn't work either. I had my name taken off record in 1998. Then in 2021 my Mother, who remains an member, kept seeing my name and original baptism/ordinance details. Apparently my name only remained off record for 7 years, turning up by 2005. Bearing in mind GDPR required all organisations to obtain express permission from the individual to keep their personal data in 2018 - I heard nothing and had no idea they had magically rebaptized me! Even though there were still priesthood members around involved with my original exit, they wouldn't speak up to say the church was in error, so I had to resign again (Quitmormon, no letter this time). I don't know what game they are playing but the only true way to 'leave" is to be excommunicated.
Although lost in this Context is like the parable of Leaving the 99 to find the one sheep... But the reactivation practices is the reason I asked to be released from the bishopric it was not something I wanted to participate in... People should be free to Pursue whatever religious experience they want
I was thrilled to have them seek out this lost sheep so I could give them the the real gospel of Jesus Christ (1Cor 15:1-4)
I mentioned that it was difficult to know what to believe in the church bc the book of Mormon contradicts the D&C in many places so how's a person to know what to stand firm in! It is so fun to have them drop over so I can give them biblical truth, but for some odd reason they haven't come by for about 5 years. I wonder how much I've messed up their perfect charts and plan! 🤭🤗
I wonder if The Church is in full compliance with the Data Protection laws that exist across Europe, when it comes to passing names and addresses around and across the Atlantic?
Churches will rely on the "consent" of the member. If you are on their records 'by consent' then the dissemination of those records/information is lawful. Its like you moving and changing your doctor your records go with you UNLESS you specifically request them not to. They can be transferred 'within' that organisation without data protection laws being compromised.
The principle of finding and looking after the lost sheep comes from Jesus Christ s teachings. We have a responsibility to care for and support all members whether they are actively engaged in Church participation or not , hence we approach and extend the hand of fellowship to those who may not have been to Church for some time.
Nobody forces any person to join the Church. It is a decision the person makes of their own free will. That is an important Gospel teaching. Likewise a member who no longer wishes to be a member of the Church is free to request that their membership is removed and not to be contacted by the Church.
As for myself l love being a follower of Jesus Christ. The Church administers His Gospel and that has given me much inner peace and support and joy in life. We all have challenges and difficulties in life and the Gospel principle of looking after each other certainly has blessed my life.
I had a struggle with cancer and the friendship and love and concern from fellow members surely helped me through a most difficult time in my life, having also a young family to support. I am just so grateful for the Lord organising such a wonderful Church. 😊🙏❤️
Thank you, Nemo, for continuing to enlighten, educate, and when appropriate entertain us with your passion, your knowledge and your obvious desire to shed light on the truth. Hats off to you, young man! (I "defected as a teenager many decades ago but somehow, some way - even in the 1970's - my records would show up prompting a knock on the door - exasperating back then and now, this? Wow! ... glad I removed myself officially)
We removed our names 2 years ago and have enjoyed the blissful silence.
They say "leave the church alone" when you state your opinions on how awful it is but they won't leave YOU alone because they need to bring back people to Jesus to feel self righteous 🧍
The church also did a pilot program in Utah to find ways to reach out to and reactivate return missionaries who NO longer attend. I was in the ward missionary group of a ward tasked with directing this pilot in our ward and Stake. We were "Chosen" to pilot reactivation efforts for a targeted group. 2017 to 2019, is when this happened in our Stake.
This finding lost members program has been going on for at least half a century. My amusing experience: I got my first baptism on my mission in Brisbane, Australia in 1974. Three years later, in my ward in Montgomery, Alabama, I got a notice from the church membership department asking me if I knew the lady's location. I was literally on the opposite side of the planet from her, and I hadn't heard from her since I was transferred away from her area. Several months after baptizing her, I heard from a long-time member that she had stopped coming to church because someone in the stake had asked her to contribute $100 to put a new floor in the gym of the stake center, which wasn't even her home chapel. She was not a person of means, and that apparently turned her off to the church shortly after we had worked hard to get her baptized.
Same old member retention program. Just a "new name."
I had a random call asking if I had contact info for my father. Nope. Two minutes later, phone rang again. Same old guy asked why I didn’t have a relationship with my father! I said I couldn’t see how that was any of his business. He said well, he guessed it wasn’t so I said ok then and hung up.
@@DancingQueenie That reminds me of when a year after my family resigned from the church, we gave our youngest daughter a 12th birthday party. We rented a room in a motel that had a nice indoor pool where the kids could swim in January. Everybody in my family had left for the motel except for me. I was about to leave, when there was a knock on the door. It was a stake high councilor and his wife from our old ward. They had come to invite my daughter to some young's women's activity.
Because we had resigned from the church a year earlier, their visit told me that they had come because they got some sort of an automatic computer printout that listed the kids in the ward who were turning 12 and thus were of age to attend young women's. Our daughter's name must have been on the printout. That would have been the only reason they knew to come to our house on her 12th birthday. So to turn a phrase, you can leave the church, but the church won't leave you alone.
I told them where my family was, and that I was about to go there too. They seemed a kinda surprised that I, an evil apostate, was actually doing something with and for my family, instead of laying around drunk and beating my kids every night, I suppose.
Before they left, I asked them how their son Junior was doing. They seemed embarrassed that I would even mention his name. The reason being, Junior, who was about 19, had raped a 14 year old girl in the ward, and he was in state prison. I guess that because we had left the church before that incident happened, the couple didn't know that I knew about it. But boy, after I simply asked them how their son was doing, they couldn't get out the door fast enough.
I hadn't thought about that incident for many years until I read your story about the church guy calling you.
@@randyjordan5521 Wow. You could turn that into an O. Henry-style story! Mormon culture definitely has an US vs THEM assumption that THEY are all evil. When I moved from Utah to NYC, I was surprised that THEY were very good people.
You know I think I was in that rare category of "drifting member" I was questioning a lot of the church's decisions and my church attendance slowly faded very gradually till all the things added up in my head that it wasn't true. I remember there was a time I went maybe once a month when I felt like it for about a year.
Occultism runs real deep in this organization.
Awesome video. Highlights a great reason to resign.
Keep them coming !
Very good work!
Thanks a lot!
Membership and finance are the same department? Why does that make so much sense for the LDC? BTW - Conference speaking tone seriously triggers me now. I gotta go drink some wine.
Good point Burrell 😂😂
Simply because members finance the operation of the church
I presume it was the bishop or the stake president came by our house in Utah with the elders. Once they learned, we left the church 20 years ago. The old man said “well what can we do to get you back?” my response was “change your history.?” to which he laughed and nodded and they left my porch. It’s in our exit letter that the LDS church is not to ever contact us or we will take legal action they don’t seem to care or research any of that they come by at least once a year, and they get to learn something horrific about their religion and the founder.
I've been able to avoid being contacted so far. Might need to prepare myself for it now
This was great, Nemo! One day I’ll finally get around to having my records officially removed.
Do it as soon as possible.
The church had a test program in my mission called the balanced effort. It used missionaries and members to reactivate inactive members. There were five missions in North America that took part. It has been discontinued as a program. We found members inactive for more than two years were pretty much gone forever. There was the odd exception but you really had only 24 months to reactivate them in the church.
I haven't been to church in over 20 years, but they've chased me down through two apartments and two home purchases. They even changed my name to my husband's name on the membership records even though I never changed it when we got married. That tells me someone stalked our marriage license or property tax records and made an assumption about my married name. I finally tried to formally withdraw from membership this past summer but my bishop seems to be undermining it as I've never gotten any kind of confirmation from the Church.
Some people look up to bishops, some look up to apostles, my dream calling is "senior manager of all membership application products" praise God 👏 🙌 🙏
That intro music was amazing!
The video was done after the first introduction line😂. Great stuff Nemo!😊
I insisted 20 years back I wanted my records removed. They were. However my children's records and x wife were not so when I found out from neighbours that 2 male members of the Church were asking personal questions about me and my family etc in my tiny community I was rather upset for a number of reasons! However I gave them a taste of their own medicine and sought out the men responsible, found out where they lived and asked their neighbours similar questions like do you know that your neighbour is a priest, and holds office in the Mormon Church. To my utter suprise their neighbours did not even know they were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints but now they do and can't keep their little secret hidden anymore.
I got a phone call from a bishop who seemed quite upset that I had spoken to his neighbours.
Oh the irony of life!
They certainly know where I am. I live next door to the bishop! My wife is TBM, but I'm totally inactive. I do go to the sacrament meeting to support her, but don't take the sacrament. I leave after that meeting. I wonder if they'll now bother me ... I'm old and we're empty nesters, so maybe they figure I'm a lost cause. They'd be right.
OMG!!! My son (5 years) just received a Friend magazine in the mail with the last name spelled way wrong.
He wasn’t even blessed into the church and my husband is the only one with records still.
We have no idea who or why it was sent to our house.
It creeps me out!
It’s been a while, but I remember a time when we got regular calls asking if we knew where a family lived that my husband had baptized while we lived in a different state. We also got calls asking for my husband’s brother’s address. I remember feeling the inappropriateness of providing this information. I couldn’t even be sure it was someone from the church asking for the info.
Once, I told the caller I would ask the person they were seeking if it was okay to give their contact information to the church. If they granted permission, I would call the church 10:52 back. Ironically, the caller wouldn’t give me their phone number. They said they’d continue to call me. 😂😂😂
I was found in 2021 and received a letter via the USPS from a local bishop stating they had received my records, welcomed me to the ward, and provided me with his and the elder's quorum president's emails. I had made 2 attempts in years previous to resign (via quit mormon and another program that was tried), but never received an official response and didn't want to expend resources to litigate the church for the lack of response. I took the opportunity to use their provided emails to tell them I'm a happy member of the LGBTQ+ community, have found places of worship with better theology who were welcoming and inclusive of gay/queer people, and had no desire to remain a member of the LDS church and asked for a resignation of membership. While there was no response from these local leaders to my request, within a week or so, I received the standard form letter by email from the church membership records department that my resignation had been processed, etc.
I moved away to college and 2 missionaries I used to know just showed up to my place. Apparently they just happened to be transferred to where I was living and my dad gave them my address. I was very confused when I saw them tho lol
Member products division. Is it just me or does it look and feels more culty
Wow Nemo, you’ve done a fantastic job with your documentation. Thank you. I found this whole “training video” so sickening sweet! They all read from a prompter in the Sweet, condescending Utah style. The idea that Jesus justifies their stalker-ways is just creepy! I now tell people who want to contact me for the Church that I’m an atheist. No more religious talk for me! Haven’t had a visit for quite awhile 😉
2 Mormon missionaries came by 4 weeks ago after not having someone by for about 7 years here: I did see 2 riding their bikes before covid hit but I think they were only doing appointments.
As the yearly visits stopped!
Or they bypassed my house for obvious reasons that I know the Bible and Christianity better than they do.
No, brag just fact.
The JW'S have also stopped coming to my house as they get nowhere also.
We will see if both groups continue door to door or try to just set up appointments as those would be more profitable.
I did fill out a card at a temple visiting area and missionaries did come out but that was in the 70's and I had help from one of Sanda Tanner's volunteers from her bookstore in Anaheim California.
It was interesting because the 2 young missionaries brought their missionary ward supervisor along probably because it was a scheduled appointment and he drove the car for them.
Their teaching time basically became a discussion or friendly debate and we did quite well as that was the first time I have challenged their beliefs in a formal way outside of just at the door.
❤
I'm going through this harassment right now.
I'm happy to see that you got rid of the blue light.
Lost sheep = Lost revenue generators. Please help us find our revenue stream again. We have your name, we want your money.
I used to be an active LDS member and our ward did have a program to visit inactive members. It was not great having to go around and finding people who obviously wanted to be left alone or watching someone smoke a cigarette in front of you. Now I'm the one who wants to be left alone. Haven't been to church for a long time and don't intend to ever return, but I have not requested that my records be removed, if only because most of my family are still members. My wife is not LDS, so they don't care about her. Home teachers used to come by and when I didn't answer the door they would go to my neighbor's house to inquire about me. Of course, they didn't know if I was home, etc. Next they sent male missionaries and finally lady missionaries. My wife would watch them from the window. They've must've changed the standards because the women were dressed more informally. Saw some lady missionaries at my branch library. They didn't know because I had never opened the door to them. One of them was dour-faced and looked unhappy. She was like something out of the pioneer days.
Well this explains why someone I used to have as my second councilor reached out to "See how I've been" this past weekend since it's been "so long".
Another great video. Our names were removed but some missionary was trying to contact me via FB messenger. I just ignored it!
"Stalking and harrassment..." Those were the exact words that came to my mind and that I expressed to the bishopric member and "minister" who appeared on my doorstep a few months after I stopped going to church and moved. I followed them up by saying that further attempts to contact me might lead me to contacting the authorities. I never heard from them again.
Fantastic video - thank u!
I didn't "stray", I turned around and ran the other way. I was offended and just wanted to drink beer again.
what an intro.. music con mucho sabor
Who answers their front door, phone, or email anymore unless they know them? I don’t.
Their task will be difficult.
About 15 years ago, I rented a room from a Mormon couple. While they were away, 2 missionaries showed up to convert. I was happy to talk to them but am agnostic and talked with them a few minutes. I mentioned the homeowners were Mormon. They looked hella confused. They even questioned me on it. Yes, they attend services. 😂 When I told the homeowners later what happened, they said they prefer to go to their old ward from before they moved. I had no idea back then how up in your business the LDS church is.
I am do glad I officially resigned and it was official effective 11-3-2022. I had not been "active" for 14 years. Don't they have better things to do with their time and resources? You riock, Nemo!
Even when I was active I used to sit in word councils and wonder "are you people that stupid to realize these people probably don't want to be contacted".
Most people know where the local Mormon church is and if they want to come back they will. Most people are just caught up in the system and can't see the fact that they are so delusional.
Why am I not getting harassed by the Church? I was a convert and haven't been to a service for nearly 13 years and I never got contacted. And I live in Utah, too!
I kinda strayed. I always hated going and figured an all loving god wouldn't care so long as I was being the best person I could be. So I stopped going. Didn't discover the truth claims or the immoral practices till a couple of years ago. But I was also never super invested in the first place.
BTW, I was a membership clerk twice in the 1990s. Getting/forwarding records, even with active members could be a mess.
Are they finding Nemo?
Hahaha! They know my address
We have not removed our records, but I deleted our email addresses and phone numbers from the LDS tools. Luckily, I told me parents to not provide my new address to the church and they were respectful.
This looks like it applies to last 10 years worth of converts. What happens to records older than 10 years ago? What is disturbing is just how much information is online as in the form of various property/RE tax records, registrations etc.
🤣😂🤣 this is how I FINALLY got excommunicated they sent me a letter to my "last name" from 18 yrs prior to an address where I had moved at least 23 times (from state to state if you know how big the US is the west alone is same size as all of Europe) had been married for 17 yrs to the father of my 4 chicken , I was LIVID !! 😡😡😡 I called them up & gave them a piece of my mind & directed her to "find my records...🙄 You see the delete button?... HIT IT!!! I didn't know I was excommunicated until my mother's funeral where her cousin Dallon H. Oaks spoke (I didn't hear a word he said 🤣😂🤣) I guess that's why my mom & Dad never replied to my many letters while they were on their mission to Bolivia in 1999 through 2001 lol
Wow when you hear him say go to the last known address
Leave me alone!!!
I had my membership formally removed from Church records. However I remain on generally friendly terms with local ward members. Sisters have stopped by, however they cannot stay since no females live with me. Fact is I know a lot more about theology and church history (not LDS) than most missionaries do.
That “sister” appears stoned. Sorry, she distracted me 😮
She looks like she’s there under duress
Depressed
Pilot programs, redefining terms, statistical reports and dashboards.......just like Jesus would do!
I wonder how many units were instructed to not approach the finding efforts prayerfully so that they know that it is less effective.
.
The only time I know of this kind of effort being appreciated by the intentionally not active members was told to me by a member of a bishopric on my mission. Part of their efforts to get into contact with these people was to ask them if they wanted their names removed. They had so many that SLC told them that they were submitting too many. They negotiated with SLC to be allowed to submit a certain number each week. The next few visits with the people who wanted their names removed was to keep them updated.
As soon as they find out you are "Anti" they will leave you alone.
Remember tracking down people who had "strayed" on my mission. What a fool's errand. We ran into "members" who literally didn't know they belonged to the church. I deeply regret bothering these people. If the church were serious about not having people stray, they would stopped the highly-pressured and rushed baptisms by missionaries. It's such a ridiculous cycle they perpetuate. This is simply a tactic to perpetuate artificially-inflated, world-wide membership numbers while simultaneously giving members a delusional representation of local activity rates. It begs the question why this organization can't simply and finally live up to the 13th Article of Faith. "We believe in being honest..."
Not all who wander are lost…
I would argue it does NOT sound corporate. It sounds Mormon. That sing-song cadence is such a giveaway.
Never Mo here. Is it just me or is the church giving off stalker vibes? 🕊💌
Well I'm not picking up any stalker vibes from you 👍