LAZY Learners & LAX Disciples - Russell M. Nelson April 2021 |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- A response to the General Conference address "Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains" by Russel M. Nelson, from the April 2021 Conference.
Video Sources:
Original Video: Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains
• Christ Is Risen; Faith...
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Michael John U. Teh - Phillipines
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Chi Hong (Sam) Wong - Hong Kong
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Taniela B. Wakolo - Fiji
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José A. Teixeira - Portugal
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Edward Dube - Zimbabawe
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S. Mark Palmer - New Zealand
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Reyna I. Aburto - Nicaragua
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Ulisses Soares - Brazil
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2020 Statistical Report
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2019 Statistical Report
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Gospel Topics Essay
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Ronald A. Rasband on Miracles
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Missed in Sunday school
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Moroni 10:7
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The original video is included under 'Fair Use' law for the purpose of critique.
#GeneralConference #Mormon #FactChecking
4:24 I also disagree with Nelson that "No other message (other than the redeeming message of Jesus Christ) can eliminate contention in our society..." But I think I disagree for different reasons.
I'm of the opinion that one of the major factors that sustains social cohesion and bonding is ideological uniformity. I consider it a product of our evolutionary history. I'm willing to admit that the beliefs Nelson speaks of could eliminate contention in ANY society, so long as EVERYONE believes it. And that could probably be said of any group of people who all believe the same ideology in any region of the world.
I've long said that secular humanism brings people together by accepting differences while religion brings people together by eliminating differences (namely, ideological differences). I may adjust this statement in the future, but I think it's a sign of a mature society when masses of people can peacably live together _despite_ ideological differences. To me it shows that the majority of the population knows how to have a mature and civil conversation about differences or disagreements, should the occasion arise. And if it doesn't the population understands how to respect people's freedom of belief. But I suppose it's the "freedom of ideological practices", so to speak, that causes the actual tangible conflicts in these kinds of societies.
Great insight, cheers for that!
I agree that idealogical conformity brings social cohesion. So although LDS, and other religions' claims, are NOT based on reality, religions still bring the following:
Comfort, certainty, identity, meaning and answers. Religion also unites families and communities.
If a society loses its religion, (which is usually a glorified mythology and set of morals) this has very serious consequences for that society. The native Americans lost their culture, and turned (disproportionately) to substance abuse. They also experience high levels of unemployment. Their cohesion and meaning has gone.
If the Mormons lose their religion and sub culture, you can bet there will also be a social breakdown....a rise in family breakdown, divorce, illegitimacy, crime, nastiness, selfishness, depression, individualism and consumerism. This has happened in ALL post christian Western nations.
So to sum up, faith, even that based on fantasy and layer upon layer of faulty reasoning and self deception as mormonism seems to have benefits for society and believers!
@@Themanyfacesofego Sure, religion works. But as I said in my comment. I see it as a mark of societal maturity and civility when large populations of people can transcend their tribalistic tendencies and live peacably with one another _despite_ the ideological differences. To me, it shows that people largely have the empathy and self awareness to respect each other's freedom of belief.
Religion doesn't foster that kind of world. It fosters the opposite. It is in the business of widespread conversion. It's not interested in societal maturation.
I don't dispute that religion works. In fact in my opinion, it's what religion has done to the human psyche that is the source of the problem, not the loss of religion.
What I mean is, in contrast to a healthy and rational view of the world from the beginning of a child's life, what religion _actually_ offers our brains (which have evolved over eons of time with all their hardwired fallacious ways of thinking about the world) is basically "meaningfulness porn". And when this type of "porn" is indoctrinated into you from the time you can speak, it's no surprise to me to see these people grow up, have some introspection about the veracity of these beliefs, admit that they don't think they're actually true, and go through a depressive phase afterwords.
The narratives and claims religion has offered to us have appealed to our need for love, empathy and understanding especially in trying times in our lives. And in the real world, our loved ones, let alone people in general, aren't always around to console us when we need it. They're not always around to be a listening ear when we need help processing some event that occurred in our lives. And even when they are around, they may not fully understand what it was you went through or know what to say to help you feel better or learn from the experience.
So for instance, what Christianity has fashioned in response to all these troubles is the perfect friend, Jesus. He's omnipresent, so he's always around to listen to you. He has all the time in world to listen to you. He has this "perfect love" for you. And he even knows you better than you know yourself! So he knows exactly what to say to you to make you feel better or to help you learn from you experience. And for that matter, he rights all wrongs in the end. He is the provider of a "cosmic justice" for all charitable and evil works done by everyone in the history of the world.
This figure of Christianity claims to perfectly satisfy our desires of love, belonging, understanding, meaning, justice among others. If we completely internalize these claims, then it's as if those desires have been met. But the question is, how did we get to that point of complete internalization? Were we justified in getting to that point, or was our judgement too blinded by the offer on the table?
While there may be turmoil in society's transition out of these beliefs, that doesn't mean there is no possible resolution on the other side of the transition. I can agree that the transition can be chaotic, but I don't agree that people should turn back to those beliefs merely because of the turmoil this journey initially produces.
If we ever want to achieve personal and societal stability while also retaining rationality, the questions must be asked and the journey must be taken. It may take multiple generations before there is a way of understanding the world and our place in it that people can get behind, but that also prioritizes reason over wishful thinking and outlandish promises.
In my opinion, when we go through months or even years of introspection and try to think through various schools of thought on how to view the world, all this thinking comes down to two options and acting on which one we value more. Do we value happiness more or intellectual integrity more?
Personally, I think what is going on in the world right now is akin to a teenager discovering their desire for independence. Often times a teenager will behave in certain ways that aren't very wise, but are acted out as a way to assert their independence. They may go contrary to their parents' better judgement of a situation, but the teen's primary motive in their contrarian attitude is to let the parent know that they want to be independent.
Today in our general society, I see a lot of ex-religious people taking on reactionary and contrarian attitudes towards what I would consider some time-tested, better societal configurations. And it's my hope that once the greater part of these ex-religious people feel like they truly have an established sense of independence (both in their way of thinking and in their way of life) apart from their previous authoritarian religious upbringing, they'll have a clearer mind and be able to think about how to live life in a healthier, more fulfilling and less chaotic way that does not include religion, but may happen to contain some of those societal elements which it seemed religion had a monopoly on.
@@Themanyfacesofego I agree that there are increased risks for unhealthy behaviors for people who lose their religious and cultural foundation. Do you think that it is reasonable to require people to continue to profess belief in a fantasy after they have seen that fantasy for what it is? In his talk Nelson is calling on members to actively avoid information that reveals the fantasy and to just belief if they encounter that information. I don’t see that as a reasonable request. Some religions allow people to deconstruct the fantasy elements, refocus on core behaviors, nuance metaphor, and remain in the cultural community. The COJCOLDS does not do this. The leaders insist on orthodoxy only, especially orthodoxy of obedience to church authorities. The environment that leaders create with these types of messages drives out those who have developed past a literal faith. They would rather leave the one to fend for itself for fear it could contaminate the 99. This does put the one at risk for all of the things you point out in your post. The problem the church is having now is it’s no longer the one it’s the 50 (in Millennials). They are going to find themselves with a very small flock. I personally think the church has an ethical responsibility to care for those is so callously rejects and marginalizes. Create a space for them in the church, pint them to healthy resources post faith reconstruction, at least let them leave with dignity. Instead the church blames the sheep for failure to maintain the orthodoxy it desires and sends them out to the wolves where many are further hurt in ways that are very real.
@@ThomasJDavis Thank you for this. Yes, we are going through a transitional phase. I like the analogy of a teenager.
Regarding people living together despite differences, that would be wonderful, but contrary to history. But, if people abandon their religions I suppose those differences will be far less.
A downside of abandoning religion would be the break down of the family. Society maybe going through changes but the process affects real people especially children very badly.
Funny how my lazy learning has made me a thousand times more informed about the church than my siblings, who for the most part have no idea what I'm talking about when I bring things up.
The lazy learners things gets to me quite a bit as, during my faith crisis, I was absolutely the most diligent in my religious studies than I had ever been before. I also fasted which even in normal circumstances is difficult for me but at the time, I was still breastfeeding my child. I attended church physically, even though I didn't need to (it was during covid) and prayed my heart out.
It serves to perpetuate the idea that people only leave because they lack faith, diligence, or tenacity.
This talk perpetuates misery in it's members. I'm so sorry for your experience. This talk got me so angry because I know people like you and myself who will make themselves more miserable trying to get those promised blessings that aren't coming. The blessings he promises don't come because you don't feel peace and happiness by surrendering every part of yourself. You give your brain and your heart and your agency to the church in exchange for blessings that never come and this talk is basically telling people they aren't doing enough. That is abusive.
@@lieseljones2216 I'm not sure I agree. I'll always feel indebted to Jesus Christ for what he has done for me. Blessings are all around us. One of those blessings may be to realize that blessings are here now.. and will be here in the future. (Either in this life of the next).. That has always been the teaching of the LDS church. Misery may have come to you, but don't forget the many great things either. And misery is a part of life and also what the LDS Church teaches needs to happen. The key is remaining faithful to God (however you chose). He has great things in store for you.
@@rodneycburgi6719 I agree that blessings are all around us. When I was a member I thought I was happy and blessed but now that I'm out I feel so sad and angry for my past self. The further I get away from the church, the more I see how much damage it did to me. Now I can really see how blessings are all around and the joy that is available without having to work so hard for the Spirit. I feel the Spirit more since leaving the church and I feel closer to God. So I think I've leveled up.
Talk about a mountain of misery. God bless you. You’ve heartily earned a happy LDS-free life. ❤️
If you entered a 3K race and only ran for half of it, would you then be surprised you didn't get a prize? To win a prize we must not only run well but finish.
Damn, just what kind of people does he think are leaving the church? The slackers, religiously uneducated, gamers, and the casual church goers? We were teachers, leaders, missionaries and faithful members our entire lives. Ironically, HUGE numbers of people leaving followed his advice over the years and studied and discovered doubts in the actual STUDY MATERIAL. Respectfully, it's disappointing to think a prophet of God can have so little compassion and such a high level of condescension.
I was the primary president.... my husband and dad only cherry pick. I tried MUCH HARDER then they did. I'm leaving. They are staying. My dad hadn't even heard of the come follow me lessons.
@@inChristalone1960 oh he is a profit. Prove me wrong. 🤣🤷♀️🤦♀️
@@jonipitcher7185 Indeed.
a prophet of God???????????????????????????
Very well said.
I had faith in this church most of my life. Suffered through primary, youth program, mission, temple marriage and various callings. I was thoroughly and miserable throughout. I stuck with it because of ‘faith’. But I was let down. I discovered happiness and freedom when I abandoned this church. A church which is very anti Christian on many levels.
Also, well done Douglas. Another well produced fact checker, I always enjoy your work, particularly because you stick to the issues at hand while some of your contemporaries are taking personal potshots at how Nelson speaks in this talk. I’m not interested in such adolescent, personal remarks. I like what you do because you stick to the point.
The most ironic part about this (in my opinion) is that he’s subtly encouraging members to be lazy. By implying that those with doubts are lazy he’s subliminally telling members that if they have faith, it means they are not lazy and don’t need to do more learning. He’s giving them license to not learn more.
Amazing point! I totally did not pick up on this 🤯
Exactly my thoughts as well. I tried pointing this out to my Wife after listening to his talk and she didn’t get it. Probably because I was criticizing the beloved “prophet”
Only someone who has started to see the truth can see how he is spinning stuff to fit what the church wants you to believe. It’s so obvious unless you are under their spell.
I agree! If you study and, I don’t know, maybe read the essays, that mountain of misery he mentions will definitely move and avalanche all over you and your mustard seed.
Brilliant point!
Gaslighting.
My uncle’s patriarchal blessing said he would witness the second coming in his mortal life. He died and Jesus didn’t come.
Sorry for your loss, it doesn’t raise a good point though!
To me this talk is reinforcing it's abusive relationship with its members: keeping them passive, hard working, suffering, and powerless.
The church promises happiness and peace by surrendering yourself to God and giving more to the church.
I promise you will find happiness and peace by reclaiming your emotions and agency from God/the church. Your feelings and emotions and thoughts are your own they are not coming from God or the devil (although they may have been implanted in you by a prophet or teacher or parent). Let go of the idea that peace, happiness and power comes from God, and you will find peace, happiness and power. Amen.
I was out of the church for seven years. And was miserable. I've been back in it for more than 20 years now and feel closer to Savior...more joy and happiness and peace than I have ever felt. All of our experiences are different. I know people who have exclaimed they were lost...lonley...sad...etc their whole lives until joining the church. It goes both ways.
I have been inactive for over 2 1/2 years now, I am very glad that I left.
yep its great not to go steak conference, ward conference, any conference just to be told that you are doing a good job but you still suck and are going to hell
I forced myself to sit through this and then thanked god for the miracle of my excommunication. Well done Nemo
tips on getting excommunicated? asking for a friend (sometimes it seems like it'd be easier to get excommunicated than go through the process of having your name removed)
Thanks for watching!
"Choose to believe." How does one choose to believe a thing they don't believe? Think of any claim you're unconvinced of like "My net worth is ten million dollars." Now, choose to be convinced of that claim. You can't, through sheer force of will, choose to believe anything. When He say's "choose to believe" he's really saying, just pretend as though you do. Lie to yourself and everyone else and claim to believe a thing you don't actually believe and maybe eventually you'll deceive yourself.
agreed. lie to yourself is the mormon way.
That's exactly what my mom told me when I told her I don't believe in the church
Trump believes he’ll be “reinstated.” He has perfect faith.
@@DancingQueenie There's another one. Someone who's simply incapable of engaging in any kind of interaction with others without politicizing it.
Jesus taught. He taught do then know. That takes faith, just like the prophet is encouraging here. "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." John 7:17
Watched ~ Again To Make Sure i Didn’t Get “ It” Wrong ~ Worse Every time i have Watched It 😒Well Done Nemo ~ This Talk Is Very Painful. My History with The Church Is ~ Well ~Some Day i will Gain The Strength To Share My Journey ~ Thank You! Comforting To Know I am Not Alone 🗝Pure Truth Matters!!
You’re absolutely spot on! Once again, your take on the church is 100% accurate!
It’s amazing he’s only 23 or 24. It’s very impressive
Cheers both!
Never saw the talk until now, him ACTUALLY using the phrase "lazy learners" just solidifies my decision about leaving the church and gets me thinking "the church is starting to fall apart huh?"
That moment I heard it all my delusions that he was a good man just vanished
@@2022Coopersmom
Admiral Nelson, there, is an egregious puppet of the hierarchy...
So when was the lds lead by a true prophet??
🧐😳😣
“Choose to believe…” One does not choose to believe. One acquires belief thru life experiences and learning.
He broke my "BS-ometer."
Nemo is well deserving of all the attention he's been getting. Well done Nemo Im subbed and getting notifications. So so good
Thank you kindly!!!
I learned my way right out of the church! Praise the Lord I’m free of this evil ! Thank You God !
I'm in that process now having learned a whole bunch just in the last two weeks. There ultimately is going to be no way for me to stay since the whole religion is based on lies and stealing other people's ideas and ideologies. I just need to see if there is another church out there that I can join or if I just need to go it alone.
I’ve heard bits and pieces of this talk but this time, I got the distinct impression the talk was written by President Oaks who is master of double speech
@Cheryl Tyler
Wow! That's an interesting observation!
(Oaks is so smarmy in his "helpfulness", he even "lip-synced" right along with Nelson and the teleprompter, on one occasion!)
Interesting, I'd never explored the possibility that another apostle could've "ghost written" the talk for him!
This current crop of Lazy Prophets and Lax Revelators are turning the doctrine and theology of mormonism into a big 'effin joke...........
It was funny to see how quickly your facial expression changed as he said that only unbelief will stop miracles coming for you. Your expression is exactly representative of how I feel when hearing that line
I've stopped being shocked by a lot of it, but the brazenness of that statement hit me hard!
Your smack-down rebuttal videos are great. Thanks for your work.
I appreciate that! cheers!
Translation:
“Keep sending me 10% of your income. The church is True. You can trust me”
This is the prosperity gospel with more steps.
Spot on!
I'm have recently discovered your channel, and your work is very enlightening. Heavenly Father loves everyone unconditionally. But the church has put so many rules on its believers; "you'd better behave, or He will not help or love you as much". The church has made God a conditional God. As children of God, we are already worthy of anything He has and is. It's our choice to be or do, not what the church or its leaders say.
I sent my resignation letter on the first day of general conference, I’m out and done!
I studied. I wanted to be a seminary teacher or a LDS scholar (though I was told first I could never marry if I wanted that, then later I had to be married... I think the main problem was the having ovaries honestly) and funny how I came across an LDS published book in my studies, at the Church run Institute of Religion at Utah Vally State College by Hugh Nibely no less, that turned my faith on its head. And as I studied and struggled and went through Hell I turned my Bishop who only got angry at me, and even The Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies only to be told to beg God for forgiveness for even asking the questions I was. I turned to God and how I was lead to a spiritual experience that in no way shape or form fit into LDS doctrine and from that point went through seven years of Hell in attempting to come to terms with it all prior to finally leaving the church.
Ovaries do tend to hold you back... I'm not sure they fully realise how little "anti-mormon" literature contributes to a faith crisis. It's more often than not the church's own materials!
What was the book
Please tell us the name of the book!
The 'appeal to emotion' section about Joseph, Hyrum and the pioneers reminded me of Elder Holland's talk 'Safety for the Soul'. He said something similar about the events of the martyrdom being evidence of the Book of Mormon's truthfulness. After reflecting on both talks, I realised how illogical that argument is.
A lot of people die for their beliefs, but that only proves they have a strong belief, it doesn't prove it was actually a God-given truth they died for. Jim Jones and his followers believed in their cult enough to commit mass suicide. Same can be said for the Heaven's Gate group that also killed themselves for their beliefs in UFOs and ascension. Nazi fanatics probably believed dying for their vision of Germany was noble. Members of Al-Qaeda believed their ideology enough to become suicide bombers on 9/11. That does not make their claims true any more than Joseph and Hyrum getting martyred.
Loved your analysis, as always! :)
And it's not as though Joseph and Hyrum Smith actually WANTED to die for their faith. They actually tried not to die by getting some pistols smuggled into the jail to give them a fighting chance - AND they used them. This is NOT martyrdom.
@@jeanbodie3921
If JS had any idea he was going to die, he would have set up a definite line of succession and would’ve prevented the rule of that murderous psychopath BY. But in BYs defense, we very likely wouldn’t have that great and spacious City Creek Mall without him.
Yooooo I was so lazy in my learning, reviewing this talk for the 4th time, that I noticed something really interesting (and gross/frustrating)! --Rusty actually has a next-level blip of insane manipulation part way through. Hear me out:
Around 12:15, when the Rusticle starts his list for combatting doubt and lazy learning, yeah he says "Study, become an engaged learner" but what he says next is telling:
"Immerse yourself in the scriptures *to understand better Christ's mission and ministry. Know the doctrine of Christ so that you understand its power for your life. Internalize the truth that the atonement of Jesus Christ applies to you. He...blahblahblah atonement blahblahblah..."*
1) This is a straight-up sleight of hand. He is dangling "Hey! Don't be a lazy learner! Be an ENGAGED learner! Here are some tips for doing so" as the bait, but then he immediately pivots into "learn about christ and the atonement, so you can understand the doctrine [because clearly you don't already if you have doubts]."
---This is REALLY insidious because it creates the illusion that Rusty is promoting study and questioning, while simultaneously completely jumping over the fact that the vast majority of doubts mormons seem to have, are in regards to the church's history and truth-claims --NOT its theology.
*What rusty is saying here is, "If you have questions about this salvaged car's structural integrity, look closer at the seats. They're we JUST had them re-upholstered, AND we installed a new air freshener!!"*
2) It also reinforces the same subtle, but poignant, implication that "if you are even in this phase [doubting], *YOU* are technically the problem for not understanding Christ's doctrine well enough."
3) Finally, it presumes that if someone understands/believes the church's Theology, that any and every possible instance of historical censorship, member manipulation, or human rights abuse the church has ever committed is exonerated.
If it wasn't real life, and harming real people, I'd be really impressed at the level of manipulation here. Rusty would make an AWESOME villain in fantasy. It's a shame he's just an awful person in reality.
@Kelleren
I had a good laugh, here.
It's a shame (and so predictable, at that) that Admiral Rusty-Nail Nelson is such an egregious puppet (and spokesperson) of the hierarchy.
P.S. I understand your idea of Nelson in the "role of villain", in a fantasy (theatrical and/or Hollywood) production! A real villain is very manipulative and very subtle, in what he does...and maintains an air of respectability.
Pretty heavy manipulation! Great breakdown!
@@NEMOTHEMORMONes, this was gas lighting and manipulation. Really offensive.😣
Excellent review. Thank you for this. So refreshing to hear someone put it the way you do. I just need to exercise more FAITH that one day the lord will remove the MOUNTAIN of religious oppression from the lives of my loved ones.
Thanks for the kind words!
We just did this talk (now in May 2021 Liahona) in priesthood today. The teacher skipped over the "lazy learners" part.
😂 inconvenient truths. You do realize that's called being a cafeteria mormon by picking and choosing. It's set up as ALL or Nothing if you are a TBM and desire to be in good standing.
To remain a member is to skip the inconvenient truths and put them on a shelf = shelf breaks = faith crisis = picking up the mess and choosing what is True and belongs in one's life = we find the exit. One day everyone will know it personally.
Thoughtful commentary. I appreciate your analysis here (and in other videos). You speak simply yet eloquently!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!
The irony is that most people who do an enormous amount of study and prayer has led more people to leave the church then those who "lazily" study the scriptures.
Exactly!
Then I’m the outlier because it’s only strengthened my testimony as I’ve worked through all of the CES letter stuff. Have you read Jim Bennett’s response to Jeremy Runnells letter? What’s great about it is that they have become friends. The focal point needs to be Love. It’s not me vs you. Jesus Atonement is powerful enough to save everyone of us regardless of our church affiliation. He isn’t surprised by the fact there are over 40,000 different Christian denominations, 1.8 billion Muslims, 590 hundred million Atheists and who knows how many other religions and sects. We are all his children and in my opinion we will be our own judge and where we end up will be based on how we lived the truth we know and loved others. I believe Mother Teresa and Gandhi are going to Heaven where God and Jesus are. They weren’t Mormons. I’m not going to hell because I’m Mormon and my ex mo brother and sisters you aren’t going to hell because you left the church. Let’s just try to do better to understand each other. My experience is not your experience. As a convert I can’t deny the sacred experiences I have had. I have only seen and experienced love and forgiveness. I love my Savior Jesus Christ and I look forward to the day I will see him. Everything I am today is because of him.
@@jeffreyturner4252 The beliefs you outlined are totally contradicted in the book of Mormon.
If doubters can’t discuss their doubts with other doubters, then it’s only fair that investigating believers can’t discuss their beliefs with other believers….
Nemo, I just loved it how you dissected Nelson’s talk to bring out the facts and discrepancies,
Nice job dissecting this talk. A lot of the advice while helpful to an extent has lots of missing holes everywhere giving it a sour aftertaste. I took some of his advice to heart because I had already had a faith crisis and it only fueled it instead of answering it. I told these problems to my bishop and my parents and just like the President said, you aren't trying hard enough which is such a cold bucket of water to the face. (P.S. I grew up in Utah and live in Utah, I have been raised Mormon my whole life.)
Scrupulouscity is something serious with consequences but they won't address how toxic it an be.
I stand very firm that Russel Nelson speak the truth because Jesus Christ chosed Him as our modern living prophet of our time. Praise to you President Nelson!
So because Christ chose him, he is speaking the truth, regardless of the demonstrable falsity of some of his statements?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON because you are unbeliever
"I stand very firm that Russel Nelson speak the truth because Jesus Christ chosed Him "
There is no evidence that Jesus Chose him. It's just a claim the LDS organisation makes and members must accept to remain in good standing. There are around 200 versions of Mormonism all claiming their prophet is chosen by Jesus.
Jehovahs Witnesses claim their organisation were chosen in 1918 by Jesus Personally.
I sustain Him to Russell M Nelson our prophet
@@asujostella2457 Yes I believe you do.
Warren Jeffs, the leader of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is equally sustained by his followers ( though he is in jail at the moment for child abuse, though they claim it to be plural marriage).
Thank you for making content like this!
My pleasure!
As a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints of 46 yrs. I have found out for my self that "faith precedes the miracle". I lost faith in the religion of my childhood when I was 17yrs old and for five years rejected all organized religion, but I still believed in Jesus Christ. When I got married and had a son I felt I needed to teach him about Jesus, but I didn't trust any of the Christian churches. I prayed and asked God to help me find "what was missing" in my life, I was looking for truth. The very next day two missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints knocked on my door. I had never heard of the church, out of curiosity I invited them into my home. At first I laughed at them, made fun of their beliefs but then the teaching that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were 3 separate, tangible beings and the beautiful concept of Eternal marriage and families resonated with me, I felt in my heart, at that point that what the missionaries were teaching was the truth. One year after investigating, my husband and I joined the church. We have raised five children and have 13 grandchildren, we have had trials like everyone does in living life, questions too that everyone has, like why are some people cured of illness and others not, these are questions that we will not understand at this time, but I believe eventually it will all be clearly understood. Also I can't read the scriptures,or Book of Mormon without the feeling that men like Nephi, Alma, Captain Moroni were real men, the concepts and teachings are life changing. I can just say for myself that joining the church saved my life and has made all the difference in my life!!! I am saddened whenever someone leaves the church, because I know that it is the true church that is directed by Jesus Christ Himself, I have no doubt!
Ahh, bless. Glad it works for you. Doesn't make it any less of a big lie tho.
Have faithful, believe stay faithful, et.al....but most importantly, pay a full tithing, volunteer your time,money and efforts to the Church...to keep the leaders wallowing in wealth. :.
Nemo, this is wonderful analysis! Thanks.
My pleasure!
"I have my doubts that the earth is flat."
"Just choose to believe."
It is flat DMM
@@bigbrother1986 Are you talking about your head?
@@DMichaelAtLarge mock all you want. The truth will be told eventually. We live under the firmament on a stationary plane. Read Genesis and stop blindly listening to nasa or spacex
Thank you Nemo! Well articulated. Seems to me Mr. Nelson outlined a great recipe for cult brainwashing, similar to MLM.
Cheers!
I love you Nemo. You always hit it right on the nail! 🔨🔨🔨
The cattle say Amen
I consider myself someone who has faith. The problem with having a lot of blind faith is often reality will not match expectations. I could channel perfect faith and still not end plagues, war or hunger. I want nothing more right now than to go to the temple, but the church has currently closed them, and even though I hold a recommend and follow the commandments I'm not allowed to enter. I wish that if I had enough faith then the temples would open. I literally wish in every way that covid disappearing and temples opening was solely down to my faith because then I guarantee it l would find a way to make it happen and I'd be at the temple tomorrow. Sadly, faith has nothing at all to do with getting what we want, even if what we want is a good, righteous thing. Saying "if I had enough faith the temples would open tomorrow, if not then I lack faith" is ridiculous for anyone to think, faith does have bounds and limits, because its about aligning with God's will, not ours. Agency is about pro-actively doing things for ourselves. Faith is trusting God and learning to align our course with him. Faith in this sense is a doing word. It's believing that with God's power you can do anything, if it's the right course of action. Unfortunately, faith is too commonly misunderstood in the church, simply believing does almost nothing, faith requires knowledge and a correct understanding, then action. President Nelsons talk would probably make more sense if all involved at church spent more time accurately teaching and understanding faith correctly.
Yes, I agree with you. Faith is not passive belief or mere wishing. It is active, and the principal motivator to ALL our actions, no matter how menial. It is also power IN our actions. But to be true faith, and really have power, it must be aligned with the heart, mind and will of God. That requires immense humility. It requires listening as well as acting. It requires confidence and trust in God. It requires patience, practice and diligence. It requires an inner stillness to learn and listen to the promptings of the Spirit. I too wish that we really taught more of what faith really is. It is too often equated with only “mere belief.” It is so much more. Man, I too cannot wait for the temple to reopen, but until then, I will do my best to remember my covenants and seek to make my house and my life a temple to the Lord.
God Bless.
@@chrishumphries7489 you're totally right, thanks for the insights!
@Heather Gillette Indeed faith is meant to be in Jesus Christ, and that is the only kind of faith that leads to salvation. But faith in an of itself is a principle (like hope, trust, etc.). Let's discuss faith. What is it? Faith is not mere belief alone (as many Christians seem to think). The two are not synonyms. From the Bible, faith is hope, trust confidence and assurance in truth that causes us to ACT (works).
Faith is the guiding principle of all action. Think about it, every action you take, no matter how menial or inconsequential is actually based on the principle of faith. All your action is because you believed/hoped (had faith) something would happen, and that is why you acted. The farmer tills the ground in faith that seeds will sprout. You eat food every day in faith that you will be nourished and filled. You practice at something in faith that you will become better at that thing. All action is based on faith.
Read the entire chapter of Hebrews 11 (attributed to Paul in writing). The whole chapter is about how faith caused people to act, and names numerous mighty works wrought by and through faith. It is clear that faith and works are intimately tied together! Faith is that inner power that gives rise to all of our actions, no matter how menial or even trivial they may seem. Faith squarely centered on Jesus Christ leads to salvation, because we will trust Him, genuinely love Him and His ways, and do what He asks. If our faith is truly in Jesus Christ, then you will not only have that motivate and influence all of your thoughts and actions, but you will also have God's power in your actions because they will be aligned with God's will. It is key to remember however, it is not the works in an of themselves, but the faith that is saving (again because it invites grace to change and transform us). We are to become faithful in and to Christ. Hebrews 11 (whole chapter) is clear that faith and works are tied together! Faith gives rise to, and power in all of our actions! We hope for something not yet seen that is true and trust in the assurance we have, which caused us to ACT. That is faith! It is more than passive belief! "For the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)."
Looking at the whole of scripture, we begin to see that there can be faithless belief (James 2:14-26, Matthew 7:18-27) as well as faithless works (Romans 4:4-5, Ephesians 2:8-10). For faith to lead to salvation it must be squarely centered on Jesus Christ. Faith and works are tied together. Yet, if those works are not done in and by faith, they are meaningless. What good would it be to "go through the motions" if there were no real faith? There would be no change of heart, no transformation by grace. Likewise, what good would it be profess a belief but live inconsistently with that belief? Would it be faith? No.
Tell me, does it require more faith to trust and follow the words of Jesus, or just claim a belief in Him? Will your faith be strengthened by action and the reception of grace or will it be strengthened by doing nothing at all and expecting grace to come to you? "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6:1).
We must be saved from sin, not in sin, or else God is a coverer and enabler of sin. As Paul might say, "God forbid."
@Heather Gillette Please forgive me if, but I really would like to share more. I think you will find what I have written very enlightening/interesting to read.
Salvation and the reformist doctrine of Sola Fide (the idea that mere belief alone in Christ saves us):
The issue and misinterpretation of doctrine arises form the letters of Paul, so let's start there. Who was Paul speaking to in his epistles? Baptized, believing church members in various regions (Rome, Ephesus, etc.), which were full of new converts. We must address the context of his letters. It is well-known and documented historically that there were popular beliefs of both the Jews and the Romans/Greeks of Paul's day. First, there was a popular Jewish belief that at judgement, one's good works would be weighed in the balances with one’s bad works. If the balances tipped in your favor at judgement, then Salvation was viewed as a transaction and a debt that God owed an individual. However, to those of Jewish heritage, according to the belief called Zekhut Avot or "Merits of the fathers", the ancient patriarchs and prophets abundance of good works could be applied to those who lacked in the Jewish faith, hence the saying "we are the children of Abraham" (Matthew 3:9, John 8:39). Again, they believed and taught that salvation was a debt that God owed man for tipping the balances of good works and that they had that in abundance because of the patriarchs. Further, there was a Jewish belief that strict and scrupulous obedience/performance to the works or ordinances of the Law of Moses is what could save a person. And finally, the gentile (Roman/Greek) Hellenistic philosophy that man could perfect himself by his own ingenious, strength and application of intellect to perfect himself, and hence, God and grace and Jesus was not necessary. All of these notions are false and Paul repeatedly fought against these false ideologies. Paul was writing a letter to a specific congregation of saints in his day with specific problems. In context, we begin to interpret more accurately. Paul is fighting specifically against these false ideas.
Again, to repeat, looking at the whole of scripture, we begin to see that there can be faithless belief (James 2:14-26, Matthew 7:18-27) as well as faithless works (Romans 4:4-5, Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul absolutely teaches that we must conform to the image of Christ. Paul teaches that we MUST be followers of Christ to inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul, James and Jesus all agree.
Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Is there any question?
These verses are written by Paul to baptized believing members of the church (whom protestant/reformist doctrine says are already saved)! These letters are not evangelical in nature, but rather regulatory to the church. Notice that Paul writes to the church and says, "I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." These two scriptures (Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) do not align in any way with the protestant/reformist view of "sola fide." These verses, written by Paul, would argue against that view.
Further discussion is needed, however. First, we absolutely agree that salvation is by God's grace alone. This is one of the 5 reformist "sola's" that the protestant reformists got absolutely right. This was in-fact taught during the earlier years of the Catholic Church (400-600 AD) and then became more obscure after that. It is however, absolutely correct.
The problem is that I find that far too many Christians do not fully understand what is meant by grace. What is grace? Let's define it: "unmerited divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration or sanctification; a virtue coming from God; a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance (Merriam-Webster dictionary). It is "the divine influence which operates in humans to regenerate and sanctify, to inspire virtuous impulses, and to impart strength to endure trial and resist temptation" (Oxford English dictionary). This is what divine grace is!!!!
So when Paul teaches "we are saved by grace," we are saved by the divine influence working in us and changing us. We are saved by grace inasmuch as we are transformed by grace. Paul teaches that this grace of God is what changed him, what saved him. Paul originally thought he was a pious Jew and right with God because he kept some of the laws of Moses, but realized (by the grace of God) that he was still deep in sin and carnal in nature. Remember he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen and severely persecuted Christians (these are wicked acts, but at the time Paul did not recognize them as such). By the grace of God working in him, softening his heart, filling his soul with pure love and humility, Paul felt the divine influence and recognized the gospel as the truth. Paul changed his ways, but more importantly recognized that his nature, disposition and demeanor had changed. God had worked IN him.
Paul does not teach against good works. Our works in and of themselves, however, are not what saves us (as the Jews he was preaching to mistakenly believed). What saves us is God's grace working in us and changing us permanently in to more holier beings. Paul recognizes that grace is a gift of God and can only be invited by real faith. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid (Romans 6:1-2). Paul is not against good works at all, but he recognizes that it is good nature, God's nature changing our own, that really matters. Paul even says, "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I LABOURED more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me" (1 Corinthians 15:10). Grace is what causes us to not just do good things, but to really BECOME GOOD. Truly becoming good is what will really save us from sin.
Paul even recognizes that the Law of Moses was "our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." The law of Moses was meant to turn a hardened people and help point them to Christ, even back when Moses gave it. The law was a lesser law of the gospel (not a different gospel). Jesus taught the full, complete and higher law (actually a higher standard than the law of Moses, see Matthew 5-7). Moses, in his day, recognized that the children of Israel were not ready for the higher law and broke the original tablets. He then received a lesser and more strict law. Children are given strict and more rigid rules, why? To hopefully point them to the meaning and teach them the reason behind the rules. To help them understand what is expected and how they should act. But the rules themselves don't change the child. What changes the child is when they understand the spirit and intent of the rules and learn to love that and hopefully BECOME that.
Anyone can keep a commandment or perform a good work begrudgingly, but what good does that really do and accomplish? The whole message of the Bible, Old and New Testaments is to become like God, who is Holy, just, true and perfect. It is to experience the life He lives and "become one with Him (John 17)."
Jesus fulfilled the law, not only because He kept it perfectly, but more importantly because He kept it willingly and with full purpose of heart. His willing, loving and perfect spirit fulfilled the law and made it whole, complete and perfect.
That is why we need Christ. We need His Spirit and His grace to work in us, to change us. At the last day of Judgement it will not be about what we have and have not done (though this certainly will be part of Judgement), as much as who we are and who we have become; how much of God's life can we truly enjoy? If keeping the commandments is displeasing to us now, it will likewise be displeasing to us later. If we genuinely have been changed by grace and conformed more closely to the image of Jesus Christ, we will love the law, keep the commandments with full purpose of heart, and desire to experience everything God really is.
@Heather Gillette Yes, it is the change in us that really matters. But that change does not just happen all at once, nor is it immediately permanent. That change takes time. Faith requires effort on our part. Faith is not trusting in ourselves, but in God. So, when God commands, by faith, WE OBEY.
Keeping the commandments is absolutely essential. But, it is not the "ticking it off our list" that saves us, but the Spirit of God inside us, LOVING and WILLING obedience, that is saving. We are saved only as far as God's grace has actually worked in us and transformed us.
Again, grace does not come all at once, but in degrees. God cannot just cover sin, he must require us to change. It is only by His grace that this is possible. Just as grace is continual and in degrees, so is salvation (Hence.....the beautiful, just and merciful plan of salvation, with different degrees and kingdoms of Heaven).
Paul makes it clear that God's grace does not operate, nor is it invited if we continue in sin (Romans 6:1).
We keep the commandments because we love God, but keeping the commandments is not what saves us. What saves us the genuine love of God in us and willingness to follow God in humility and honesty of heart. That is salvific.
Jesus did not come to save us IN sin, but FROM sin (Matthew 1:21, Helaman 5:10).
Christ did the work in our behalf. We need Him. Only by His power and grace can we have any hope. But the idea that only belief and acceptance of who He is is what saves us is not correct. That is not faith. True faith will lead us to follow Him, to repent of our sins, to be baptized and make and keep sacred covenants with Him, to receive His Spirit within us and then endure faithfully to the end. That is the gospel. Faith is not simply belief and acceptance. Faith and works cannot be meaningfully separated and works wrought by and through true faith are absolutely essential (like repentance, baptism, etc.).
Eternal Life is the ultimate goal and is complete salvation. The Apostle John records Jesus defining eternal life in John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
The same John also records in 1 John 2:3-4, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Eternal life is full and complete salvation, it is to become like Christ in word, thought, deed and action. It is be as Jesus. This does not just happen. This requires personal effort and trusting God enough to act and actually follow Him, which in turn invites God's grace to work in us.
Protestant/Reformed/Evangelical doctrine does not agree with everything I have written, because they are so caught up in Martin Luther's misinterpretation of doctrine. Do our works matter? Yes!! What causes us to do any good thing at all (the grace of God influencing us). What causes us to not only do good, but to BECOME good (the grace of God working within and transforming us). That is the message of the gospel, that change is not only a requirement of God, but truly only possible because of and through Christ.
Again, reflect on the beautiful doctrine of degrees of salvation (as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith). Many will pass through Hell before any salvation is possible. Consider King David, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" (Psalm 16:10, Acts 2:27). King David has to pass through Hell, before any salvation comes to him because of his grievous crime. Yet in God's mercy, King David will ultimately be saved, but not exalted. God's plan as revealed and restored through Joseph Smith is fair, just, merciful and true.
We seek for Eternal Life, to truly be saved, even as Jesus is. To not only accept, but follow the Master and experience the kind of life He does (by being and becoming as He is).
Basic salvation from Death and Hell into a degree of glory are not at all the same as salvation in the Kingdom of God- or in other words, salvation to Eternal Life.
Revelation 22:14, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
I noticed the long list of Faith requirements in this talk and how this talk does not follow the teachings of the Saviour or Paul.
Faith is to believe in the Messiah Jesus. That He accomplished the first part of his mission and will finish the second part at a later time.
All complete understanding is in the Holy Bible.
I notice that Russell M Nelson is really struggling this conference
Yeah, he does seem to have slowed somewhat
He was born in 1924... that makes him almost 100 years old. So, he's doing really well for his age.
Thank you Nemo for the solid analysis, especially pointing out the contradictions. The Church makes big promises about the eternal outcomes of the sacrifice of its members. When it it can’t deliver is pushes the timeline of its rewards to beyond the grave. How many earthly failures do they get a pass on before the credibility of the delivery of eternal promises is questioned? I am sure the threshold is different for everyone. In the end research is not the answer because those shelves can only hold so much. Kimball told us the lengthen our stride, Nelson is telling us the strengthen our shelves.
You're welcome, cheers for watching!
I have no doubt that I made the correct decision to leave the cult.
I have since been a studious learner not a lazy learner on studying the cult I have forsaken.
Have you left religion altogether?
@@thekolobsociety full on atheist
@@tedgarrison8842 I could have guessed. If I ever left, I'd be the same, probably. I can't imagine a life believing that I'm just a random animal, though.
@@thekolobsociety It’s quite refreshing
@@thekolobsociety Well, you kust admitted it, you can't imagine thinking that you're really nothing more than just a "random animal" because you've fallen for the "humans are special" rhetoric of religions too much.
When you don’t believe, just believe.... don’t look at the evidence, just believe... only read faith promoting things. Research with the intent to prove what you choose to believe rather than being open to finding truth...
this talk was the most cult like talk I have ever heard. A “prophet” of God calling people lazy because they have different beliefs doesn’t sound very Christ like to me. Also, we hear from the “prophet” of God 1 time every six months and this is what God wants the entire world to know at this moment in time... just believe the crazy Joseph Smith story, don’t look at the facts, just believe us. If you don’t you won’t be happy and we will call your lazy. Hahah it’s almost comical
Does no one from church marketing read his talk before hand and give constructive criticism to the “prophet”.
Jesus taught us to do then know. That means you must believe first. He also couldn't heal those who didn't have faith to be healed. Matthew 13:15 " For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16:00, paraprhashing Nelson, " Do NOT engage in critical thinking." "Only believe us and other believers." My take; Hide your head in the sand about historical facts, archealogy and science. Use your heart and emotions and DO NOT engage your BRAIN.
Essentially!
More like, "The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know [them], because they are discerned spiritually" ~ 1 Corinthians 2:14
This church teaches the wise use of the intellect to get to heaven, that God answers our prayers through our spirit, mind, and heart after we study any matter fully ourselves and practice making good judgements first before getting confirmation from God. See Doctrine and Covenants 6, 8, 9, and 11.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON You misunderstood the teaching here that opposition or bad things happen to bring us closer to God. Bad things happen to test us. That's what this life is for. We are here to either let it make us worse people, or better by drawing closer to God.
Also, the growth of the church involves more than just baptisms.
@@stephtimms1776 lol gtfo Mormon troll. Nobody here gets fooled by your arrogant, pretentious, and self-righteous hogwash
It's so easy, doubt your doubt and pay us ur money, u are urged to learn but through the churches approved sources, love your prophet and if nothing happens, just wait.
Don't doubt God abilities to preform miracles in ur life and you too can testify about how awesome the church is. Circular reasoning is exhausting, nothing is enough...even though you are definitely dedicated to the truth.
There's only one truth, don't follow mens instructions but the words of the Bible is my understanding of a successful experience.
On point. Great analysis, Nemo!
Glad you think so!
Your videos are brilliant!
I've been so excited for this, haha 😅
Thanks!!
"Choose to believe..." Umm that's not how this works. This talk was disgusting to me. Instead of buoying up families disrupted by faith crises he tore them apart more. Thank you for your videos Nemo. Thank you for supporting the actual stated aims of a church that used to teach study and learning of all truth not just their own.
You're welcome, thank you for your support!
Miracles - do you have the faith not to be healed?
Yeah, crazy! But then people also fell for Joseph telling them the treasure had moved!
The Heaven's Gate cult members died because of their faith. It doesn't prove anything.
It's like a live version of Mr. Burns talking to us!
I've seen a noticeable shift in the promises over the years from faith producing physical miracles to faith leading people to deeper belief in Jesus Christ. Faith producing deeper belief sounds like a great description of confirmation bias.
Now I remember why I haven’t listened to anything “the prophets, seers and revalators have said in conference for the last 4 years, oh my this is painful.
Am a Ugandan 🇺🇬 The church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints is the only true church and l sustain Russell M Nelson A living prophet in these latter days Amen
How cute....a new member from Uganda. I'm an 8th generation member, my ancestors lived next to Joseph and Emma in Kirtland. I served a mission, married on the temple decades ago and have served in dozens of callings. I've spent time in the church historical department (a place they really now restrict). I've seen the tax returns for several general authorities. You'll stay in the church because you're a lazy learner. I go to church now only to keep my still believing family members happy. The church is not true, Nelson last spoke with God never and as long as you keep paying your 10%, the church will keep telling you that someday you can return to live with God.
Im praying to see them starting their own churches it will be wonderful.
I wonder what motivates these high level church leaders
I know. I can't figure it out beyond money.
@@lieseljones2216 power, duty, tradition, fear, could be anything
@@r347-w7p I think power and money and the ‘oh my gosh that’s the mouth piece of God’. Like pharisees
The devil him self
Faith and Mountain-moving equipment will move mountains.
Was looking forward to this! I almost forgot
Not much emphasis on joseph smith. Did he not even bare his testimony about JS?
Here is where words get tricky. "Faith" is the foundation of belief and the conduit of all power"; Mr. Nelson did say faith in Jesus Christ, but then equates that with faith in the Mormon church and its prophets - faith in Jesus and faith in Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and all the LDS "prophets" are very separate and different things. Do most Mormons have faith that people live on the moon as J.S. taught? Do most Mormons believe in the necessity of plural marriage for Celestial exultation or that you must shed your own blood to cover your own sins as taught by B.Y.?
The core thesis of the LDS Church is this: Positive "feelings of the Spirit" are the sole 100% indicator of objective "Truth".
Therefore, any thing which invokes those feelings are true, and will inspire greater faith in those things.
ALL talks, doctrine, church history, etc are designed explicitly to invoke those feelings, and associate those feelings with the Church and its leadership. Anything which invokes a negative feeling towards the Church and its leadership is shunned, "false" and "of the devil".
He uses "you" and "your" like he has it all already. Christ died for us.
Great point, why is he excusing himself?
His calling and election is probably already made sure.
It's the confidence from second anointing.
"would 200 people have died along the pioneer track if they didn't have faith?"
A) If other people's faith is an indicator of the true Church, then we should all convert to Islam.
B) Using the example of death here is almost glorifying it, it sounds very cult-like to me. When members are faced with others saying that the chur h is a cult, they usually say "but we don't ask people to die for us" except that we did...
Great observations!
"Choose to believe"
If you choose to believe in something that you doubt, then you are being dishonest.
I quite liked the diversity shown in the conference session, but I really hated how they mentioned it. It felt so much like they where patting themselves on the back. And I've only seen snippets, I can only imagine what it was like through the whole thing.
Yeah, acknowledging it just makes it seem inauthentic.
Good job Nemo.
Faith may or may not add beauty to one's life, but it is not the answer to problems. When you are lonely, the answer is to seek for connection. When doubting, introspection and study are needed. Health challenges require medical attention. It is a bold face lie to say faith is the answer. Study these men's lives. They have not used faith to meet their needs. They have used earthly resources: education, money, medical care, relationships, networking, intellect and so forth.
I like this! Faith can certainly beautify our lives!
7:52 Apart from the grammatically incorrect statement, I think what this "grain of mustard seed" analogy is analogizing is the reader forgoing their skepticism on certain assumptions that the method relies on in order to appear logical and functional. Either that, or forgoing skepticism generally and replacing it with a mentality of credulity so as to not think about whether or not the method carries any fallacious reasoning within it.
8:26 _"The mustard seed represents a small... but growing faith."_ It's almost as if he wanted to say "commitment" there. But it really is a commitment. It's an intellectual commitment to some foundational assumptions upon which the method's framework sits. I consider a couple of these foundational commitments to be: a god existing (or rather a certain type of god that fits close enough to the description of the LDS god), and also the reliability on the method to deliver on its promises of a spiritual experience. And this second commitment could also be considered an unknown assumption by the reader about the veracity of the Book of Mormon.
edit: Another thing to mention about this part of the talk. When Nelson says, "[The Lord] asks us to believe", he is using what I call "presupposing language". He is framing the method from within the presumptions that this god exists and that the method delivers on its promises. But what we have to keep in mind is where the claims are originating from. It's _holy books_ that are _claiming_ a god is "asking us to believe". If we keep track of where the claims are coming from, then we can properly place the burden of proof.
It is not up to us to "experiment upon the word", it is up to those who believe in the Book of Mormon to demonstrate its authenticity.
What I find is the overwhelming narrative in Russel M. Nelson's talk is that faith is effort/work and is the sole doing of the individual. What the Holy Bible teaches, however, opposes this narrative. His entire talk reminds me to consider what 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says, as President Nelson emphasizes the soothing idea of gaining "blessings" over and over again. On that point, (and one you mentioned as well) it creates a have/have not culture within the LDS Church (and beyond).
[Contrast this message to Biblical Christianity: where the emphasis of the Gospel is immense gratitude to God as we praise and worship Him for His undeserved/unmerited grace while we were still sinners. True believers in the Jesus of the Bible have nothing to boast about, including an "increased faith."]
The Bible teaches plainly that faith is NOT a work; it is a gift given by God; it is NOT the individual who does something to merit blessings. (Ephesians 2:8-9 -- "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.") In other words, God Himself is the author of and the perfector of a person's faith.
Let's also put the main/title point of this talk into actual Biblical context and you will see it (Matthew 17:20) has been perverted by President Nelson.
What Jesus is demonstrating to the disciples (after they publically failed to cast out a demon) is to exalt the power of living faith to perform that which is humanly impossible, not to insinuate that the disciples hadn't even the minimum, for they were not altogether destitute of faith. Furthermore, to elevate the importance of moving mountains over casting out evil spirits is completely missing the point of what Jesus is teaching. Consider that a mountain is naturally by creation in its proper place, yet a devil is not when it's possessing a person. Therefore, it's more beneficial that the evil spirit should be cast out, than that the mountain should be removed.
As Jesus says, "...and nothing shall be impossible to you," what He implies is that performing such a wonderful action as this, were it necessary, is by God's power alone. But will make for the glory of God, the enlargement of His kingdom and interests, the confirmation of truth, and the good of mankind?
The LAZY learner in this instance is Russel M. Nelson, himself.
P.S. This mind control of "doubting your doubts" is very much the "cult"ure of the LDS Church.
Thank you for your insights!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON thank you for putting out thoughtful quality content!
The scriptures say we just need faith or just need to ask, but then the church teaches that (a) all we need is faith and (b) faith isn't enough, we also need the power of the priesthood and/or ordinances. There are so many times when they say "all you need is X" and then "oh but you also need this other thing".
The scriptures are also contradictory, but not as much as the church is with itself and with the scriptures.
Indeed, the constant addition of another thing is designed to keep us always feeling the need to do better, in my opinion.
This is the same prophet that has said "gods greatest love is NOT unconditional..." He has limited the love god has for us and then blames us for the failures of this religion. Disgusting.
BTW, thanks for discussing your doubts with the rest of us doubters!
My pleasure!
Says a person who doesn't even have enough respect for God got capitalize his name.
@@stephtimms1776 so that is how you show respect for God, by capitalizing the title. I thought it was by telling the truth, giving to your local community, not just a bloated religion with enough money to buy a small country. I thought it was by being a loving and supportive father no matter what lifestyle your children live. Supporting my wife in working outside the home, having more than one earring hole or to show of her beautiful shoulders without feeling like she should be ashamed of her personal beauty and sexuality. I thought it was by living with personal integrity and one's own moral compass and not just what a self-proclaimed prophet tells you is right. Thanks for showing me how to show respect for god, I guess I had it all wrong.
@@derralhawthorne4616 No need to be bitter Bud, it's one widely accepted indication of respect toward God. The main ways are keeping the Ten Commandments. They show us the most basic ways to show love and respect toward God and one another. Do you agree?
@@stephtimms1776 if you really want to know why I didn't capitalize the title, it is because I feel I have been lied to by men both dead and living, multiple religious books and especially the Mormon religion that I have made a choice to no longer define God by the classic terms. I no longer put god in a Mormon or any other box, it is not up to me to do so. God either is or isn't. My worship and definition of god is irrelevant to god's existence. I no longer pray to god, I no longer teach my children that god is our father, that Jesus is his son and yet, for the first time in my life, I feel right with god. it no longer matters to me if little things like whether auto correct capitalizes the title or leaves it lower case, it changes nothing, it means nothing. I know my previous comment is sarcastic but I meant every word. All of those examples are ways I choose to live my life and if there is a God, upper or lower case, I am well with that god. There is no disrespect meant for god, just disrespect for so-called men of God, and the religions they lead.
I hope you get paid for all the adds the church is playing during your videos
I got one too 😂
No way!! Hahaha!
When are you coming out with a selection of Lazy Learners merchandise?
I don't do merch, but I think ExMo Lex may be selling some!
Its amazing to me to hear people who were offended that he called out lazy learners. It made me think of all the times the Savior called out people for their hypocrisy,lack of faith..including slamming his own apostles on several occasions...and how many of those people scoffed and left Him because they were upset or mad at His teachings. Throughout all of time prophets have been called to preach repentance to people and many many are offended. It is another example of separating the wheat from the fares. Just because you are offended doesn't make him wrong just like the Savior wasn't wrong in his messaging.
He's not wrong because people are offended, he is wrong because it is an inaccurate statement.
According to who? You? But again I am quite sure the same things were said about Christ and His followers and His prophets throughout time by their critics as well. This is nothing new. But...the work will continue...wether 10million members or 1000...critics have been predicting the demise of the LDS church since the Lord re -established it over 200 years ago....and yet...here we are.
There’s no emotion in this talk whatsoever! A lot of faith shaming and zero story about Jesus and His message. Keep up the good work!
So much for that christ centred conference we were promised...
22:45 So God didn’t care for the Tongans??? That he stopped the rain for the Samoans, Tahitians, and Fijians...but forgot to turn off the rain machine for some reason? Did they need to learn a lesson? This stuff always gets me; searching for meaning in everyday, normal occurrences. That God helped you find the car keys, helped you find your lost wallet, or stopped the rain so you could have a service...yet, a child in the NICU, dying of leukemia at a Children’s hospital, is going to die anyways; no matter how many people of the “right” religion prays for that child? (And I know someone who’s been in the morgue of a children’s hospital. It’s a heartbreaking place to think of)
And yeah, he essentially was verbally abusive in this talk...you know, in the nicest way possible. (The reason I say abusive because it’s a tactic of an abuser to isolate their victim. To make it the victim’s fault). He blamed doubters for their doubt, accused people for being lazy if they do not blindly follow, and you’re doing it all wrong if you have doubts.
AND NELSON CONTRADICTS HOLLAND REGARDING DOUBT. THEY ARE NOT ON THE SAME PAGE..
Lazy learners are the TBMs who only read out of their carefully scripted come follow me manual. That’s being Lazy . Arrrhh the irony
Repleat with irony!
I was baptized at 23, having had 6 weeks of lessons. It took me 4 years of intense research and reading from myriad sources, to conclude that Joseph Smith didn’t have integrity and the LDS church’s doctrine and books are more harmful than good. I have studied and have never been happier-minus the LDS church in my life.
@@tracygrist9828 good for you. God bless you
I left Lds Church in 2017, had stopped watching conferences years before because the way they talk is very repulsive to me. Only watching those excerpts are triggering me. Thanks Nemo for your analysis, I am grateful for the community for us exmo.
🇨🇦
Now I am just mad! "His church will never fail you..." Really? Where was it numerous times when I was either framed or gaslighted by its leaders and bullied by members? I begged and demanded help from superior leaders, but got none! The church doesn't even have a real procedure of reporting misconduct of leaders. Joseph Bishop is a great example of that.
It's appalling isn't it!
The reasons most often used to describe why a person through their efforts have turned away from believing in Mormon doctrine is due to our inherent faults. Considering that we are all weak according to LDS Church doctrine, wouldn't it be something the Lord would help us with when we pray? If after years of study we find significant problems with the foundational story and the way the organization works, and discover it's based on lies, why remain?
Eventually, after participating at a level beyond the surface, or thinking beyond the confines of confirmation bias, I came to the conclusion that I was wrong. The LDS Church has many good people with good intentions, but that doesn't mean it is what it claims to be.
I'm so sick to death of the nebulous Godly "power", "power" of faith, "power" of the atonement, "power" in covenant making and keeping . . . A few years ago I was on a high council w a friend of mine and his favourite thing to talk about was "power". What power? There's no real power except by those over others they have convinced of this power.
Well, it's name calling and it's not very nice. A bit like last years word at conference - myopic. Neither of good report or praiseworthy.
Myopic made a comeback this year too!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON really??? How myopic lol
This is grossly disturbing to listen to this.
I have struggled with Tourette’s syndrome most my life, and it has been a struggle. So according to this guy the reason I haven’t been cured of this debilitating is because I haven’t had enough faith for God to find mind worthy enough to be blessed with a cure.
Wow what a condescending and condemning individual.
The sad thing is this has been the same mentality I have come to know in this church.
There is nothing Jesus in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saint’s 😢
I’m a piece of shit, unworthy of blessings,according to this message.
I’m sorry? What?! Same?! The church has changed so much of what they say about God and his will!
Wish I could be around in 800 years when every single Bible story is recognized as a myth and archeologists marvel at the gold painted statues placed on top of toppled steeples found around the world.
When was the last time an LDS prophet said: "I talked with jesus/god, and this is what they said"? I hear a lot of "we felt impressed" or "the holy ghost spoke to us" but not any actual 1v1 discussion... isnt that the whole point of a prophet?
*current member struggling with JS and BOM
Say what you will about R. M. Nelson, but the dude looks pretty good for 100 years!
Funny that I watch more conference and pay better attention now as an atheist than I did when I was a member. Hey do you suppose that I was a lazy learner then?
You were under their spell. Their talk speed is trance induction. I always fall asleep.
If members were my friends, I wouldn't have to be so lonely and I could have a better job maybe.
6:25 _"It is our faith that unlocks the power of god in our lives."_
Yeah, on the surface this doesn't seem to sound all that peculiar. My interpretation of this is: it is a person's continual diligence and obedience to belief-maintaining thoughts and practices that causes them to see their god's intervention in their lives, or interpret life events as their god's intervention.
This I would agree with. Of course if one continues to practice their religion actively, they're much more likely to think about life events in terms of divine intervention if it so happens that a particularly memorable event can be construed that way.
The church will Never fail you, unless *checks notes* You are gay!!!
you can't pray the gay away, but it is possible to gay the pray away
@@jayanderson147 lmao 🤣🤣🤣 can confirm 🥰😁
Yeah, then it tends to let you down!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Not just let you down, but the psychological damage and the suicides are a clear sign that this is just not what a loving God would do. Jesus would never call a prostitute a whore in front of everyone in order to shame her into changing her ways. The lack of Christ-like love and pivoting to a more mainstream evangelical language has left me not recognizing the church I grew up with. I left 16 yrs ago, and it feels like nothing I was told was true ever was, especially since they are so willing to just rebrand instead of explaining the truth.
13:15 he says overcoming doubts may require miracles. He says learn about miracles. So why is it that I prayed and studied my scriptures for 3 months, crying every day, to get my testimony back, but I didn't get it back?
To LDS practitioners, faith is the blanket which covers all things unknown, illogical, embarrassing, critical, criminal, and counter to the historic record. Faith is that thing which you must lack if you begin to question why a sexual predator, con man, counterfeiter, ego maniac, founded the church where they worship.
One only has to recall the lyrics of the LDS hymn 'We are all enlisted till the conflict is o'er happy are we' - why would any so called Christian be happy to be in a conflict situation. A fundamental position in LDS doctrine is the belief that the LDS Church fights against opposition to LDS truth. LDS members believe that any perceived criticism of LDS leaders is divisive. Joseph Smith taught the members that there is 'opposition in all things.' The members of the LDS Church have an entrenched ideological belief that the members are battling against opposition to the 'true church.' Far from bringing peace to humankind, the LDS members are taught to believe that LDS members are engaged in a war against false teaching.
Excellent observation
@@NEMOTHEMORMON When a member is 'called' to any position in the LDS Church, members are required to raise the right arm signifying either agreement with God or raise the right arm if any oppose God. The LDS Church is obsessed with the belief that members are either 'for' or 'against' God.