I have literally been praying to Heavenly Father to help me with my struggles with the LDS faith and now I am here! Thank You so much for helping me sort out so much confusion! Such a HUGE burden is being lifted off of me with each episode I watch. Thank You so much for doing this research for those of us that are so bogged down that we are unable to do it for ourselves.
Run as fast as you can away from those liesvthe morman church is a a lie from HELL! MANY GOID PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DECIEVED RUN FROM IT ABD KNOW IF YOU PRAY TO YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN HE WILL LEAD YOU OUT OF THE MORNAN LIES AND DECEPTION THE MORMAN CHURCH IS A LIE AND AN ABOMANATION TO God Almighty!
I'm SO GRATEFUL you haven't let your disentanglement from LDS/Mormonism shipwreck your faith in our 3rce Holy God🤗. I pray Holy Spirit will lead you to a Biblically-sound local church. 🤗❤.
Helly father you been given us Satan or even Lucifer😈 In Truth you have no jesus christ at all. No jesus whosoever on you. But, a shadow of Satanist shadow of him that is 100% counterfeit via NOTT jesus at all but Satan the HELLYfather you are dragged into with this HELL hoax of a SCAM. Smith was and is a Satanist and was that all his life from 1805-1844 his death in carthage prison where he was shot out the window and his soul was sent to Hellfire Damnation and destruction to Big Time Destruction.
I felt very alone in the world until I found your group a few years ago…after listening to so many of the discussions, it really helped me to let go of the burdens I was raised to carry in this religion ❣️. I don’t feel like I’m less than dirt anymore! I actually feel intelligent after learning so much and realizing I had known it was not for me since I was 15! Thank you all❣️
Well to be fair the Skraeling did kill off the fine Vikings in Newfoundland. Although in Iceland and Greenland they seemed to get along. The Norse were farmers and the Skraeling lived off the sea so there wasn't any real conflict. I think the relationship was mutually beneficial.
Congratulations on getting your freedom back and that you finally broke the chains of bondage from the Mormon Cult Church. Isn't it awesome that you are free now?
I am devastated! Delighted to listen to your evidences, and have research to do. Deeply alarmed about the deception wrought by the prophet Joseph Smith who I once unquestionably revered. I am opening up to the conclusion that the restored Gospel is a fabrication of a narcissistic white man. It’s a painful disturbing thought. My question is: Why brother Joseph did you see fit to beguile us with YOUR fantastic visions of religiosity? Tribes of NZ Maori people renounced their spirituality to become enlivened by your supposed “further light and knowledge “. Your doctrine has encouraged so many of us to put aside our cultural / spiritual beliefs. I grieve ever being a part of this church. I am grateful that I deregistered a few years ago. Creating a direct relationship with Jesus free from the shackles of Mormonism is one of the most liberating things I’ve ever done! Thank you Mormon discussions ❤
In 2 Corinthians 12:3 Paul of Patmos had a similar vision with some of the King James language included as in “The 1815 First Vision of Norris Stearns”.
My sister and my daughter are both Mormon converts who frequently try to convert me. Years ago while I was on a spiritual journey I read the book of Mormon and looked into their church. I immediately saw so many holes in Joseph Smith's story. It's so puzzling to me how people can believe this guy
They are following the narrative taught to them often since childhood. Many adult converts joined pre-internet so also may not have had all the facts before baptism.
They don't know everything that we know. I'm.also NvrMo but,y husband's family was when he was young and I had a friend when I was teen who's family were Mo. I became interested as a teen and took some classes from friends mom. Then, with my husband's history I wanted to learn more. I found it wasn't for me and why my husband has a still somewhat different view and knowledge of Christianity than I do. But, I doesn't have full Mormon doctrine knowledge and doesn't realize a lot. I know now more than he does.
@@randyjordan5521yes we are all sinners they dont believe this. They are brainwashed. I go to church but know we arent perfect. We are all prone to do sin. But i believe god forgives. Just dont be a hypocrite be honest god knows any way. Read your bible it never will lead you wrong. Im so sorry so many have been deceived put jesus first
It’s amazing what people will believe. Now aged 70. I don’t know anything. I know that I’ve no answers. I’m unsure if anything exists beyond this physical life. I do believe in truth, kindness and respect for others opinions. I fall down on the last one. I hope there’s an afterlife as my brother died when young and I want to be with him again.
If you want to look into after life there is a man on TH-cam called Jeff Marra and he interviews many people who had near death experiences. I find them absolutely fascinating. And heart warming.
@therealz 360z So so sorry your Son has died and so young. That’s a terrible loss for you and your family. My brother was 47 and it’s 10 years now since he died by drowning. Sending good wishes for your health and peace of mind. 💕
This video is overwhelmingly the most important and influential video I’ve seen in the last few years. It sparked a turning point in my life. Thank you Mike, John, and Nemo for your crucial work, voices, and compassion.
Pray about the video and you'll have the holy spirit giving its Truthfullness. Amen but yes it's Truth here plain to all. Smith as usual has been over exposed.
So grateful for this podcast and everyone involved in it. I have so much regret, sadness, guilt , anger and hatred still that all stems from 10 wasted years in the church when my children were little. Life could have been so much better in those days. Thank you for what you do.
Thank god. I pray you will read the bible and let god lead you to a bible believing church. No person or church is perfect trust jesus he will never fail you but people will. God bless
@@carolynbookstore3519wait to you start reading about the gospel writers and that 6 of Pauls letters are forgeries. We have ZERO eyewitness accounts of Jesus and can not confirm ANY words or actions.
I went to Egypt, I showed our Egyptian Egyptainologist the Mormon picture and he said it was a funeral message. The jars on the bottom of the picture held the heart liver and other body pictures. He said I’ve seen it many many times from tourists.
Joseph Smith made religion so much more complicated than it needs to be. I am a never been and find it really hard to keep up. Still like what you're doing. .
Truth is Norman’s are Masonic satanic deep state Sex offender members are allowed to talk rubbish about good people they’re obsessed with I really dislike these grifters
Thank you many times over for your content. I met with the missionaries for almost 3 yrs and couldn't get past the many issues I found with their theology, doctrine, and personal practices. Your content has informed me that I was on the right track questioning what I was being taught in their quest to convert me.
@@senorbb2150 I asked them if they would look up some things I brought to their attn. They told me they were not allowed to look at anything other than church materials on the internet. One night, one of them accidentally texted me some inappropriate internet content that was not from a LDS website. That's when I told them they were hypocrites and to make sure they never visited or contacted me again. I busted them in their own lies.
@@karlshaner2453 I have been seeking the truth for over 50 yrs. I have my own truth now. MY TRUTH does not include organized religion. Organized religion is a construct of man to control others.
Years ago I got curious and started reading The book of Morman. I hit the racism and just stopped reading. My heart just said nope that's not from God.
Yep. It was very easy for me to see this too. Not sure how others can believe this. I did not feel the spirit of god or any goodness, I got the ick pretty quickly.
@@richardholmes5676none of these remote factoids fix the glaring evidence showing the major pillars of Joseph Smith’s story aren't true. If you come from the position to find a way how it can all be true you may be talented enough to do a lot of mental gymnastics. But if you're simply honest you'll realize that there is fraud throughout Joseph creating the Church. When you realize this then all of the 101 idiosyncrasies finally makes sense and you no longer have to do mental gymnastics
I was raised to be prejudice & I had to unlearn it! You dodged a big bullet❣️ I told them I didn’t wanna be a Mormon at 15, but it’s “My way or the highway “ with them.
He was an avid reader and he combined bits from many of the books he read, for the main bulk of the book. He created the rest in his own mind. It's really sad that so many people bought into this mess, at one time myself included. Until I started doing comparisons, which is when it all fell apart. I'm not one who accepts from bishops "well we must trust in the Lord about it all, it'll be revealed in God's own time". Sorry guys, Joe lied. A lot.
It was truly started with a lie a big lie, and the lying continues with some bizarre excuses to keep the lie going. Absolutely, insanity, this Pod cast is truly helping blinded eyes be open.
It's funny to me now just how obviously post-Enlightenment, Anglo-American Protestant the teachings of the Book of Mormon are. That alone cast doubt on it. When I was a Mormon I didn't understand it, but after being college educated about American protestantism and early folk ideas about Native Americans it cant be more clear.
And it's error of language with shitty broken anti theist satanic trinity from a one whole modalist trinity that smith put that is theist at the low end though. Smith has apostates to himself now not just to outsiders of his hoax scam but himself. Lol
Dear organizers of the Mormon Stories Podcast, I am grateful for the thought-provoking and informative content you consistently provide. The episode "LDS Discussions Ep. 41" was particularly enlightening as it explored the influences on Joseph Smith and the emergence of Mormonism. Your dedication to uncovering the intricate connections between historical events, religious movements, and Joseph Smith's visionary experiences is commendable. It sheds new light on the foundations of one of America's most influential religious movements. I appreciate the inclusion of topics such as the unique doctrines and concepts in Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, the First Vision accounts, and the priesthood restoration. These discussions contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of Joseph Smith's ideas and the development of Mormonism. Furthermore, I was fascinated by the additional points mentioned in the show notes, such as the King Follett Discourse and the Council of Fifty. These aspects provide deeper insights into Smith's theological ideas and the complexities of his role as a religious and political figure. Thank you for your diligent research and for engagingly presenting this valuable information. Your podcast continues to be invaluable for those interested in exploring Mormon history and doctrine. With appreciation, Vitaly
I mean, he convinced others to make it a reality. I don't know if it was William Davis that said it, but he acknowledged that Joseph created a pretty amazing organization and life for himself after coming from some pretty hopeless and traumatic circumstances. It will always be a debate how "harmful" the myths are that we create and try to play out in society.
@@gregordeor the Paul from the 1st Century. No Christianity without him….. Anytime someone says they speak to God, run. Whether it’s Moses, Paul, JS, or Ron L Hubbard. We have ZERO need for a god in this period of enlightenment.
He pulled them out of his butt, I mean hat!! Hat making used to use mercury, perhaps he was poisoned. No he was just one of those weird men who are never content with what they have and needed to be in power and control. Reminds me a lot of L Ron Hubbard....
As an ex-Catholic nevermo it's the historical context that makes the BoM and Joseph Smith so fascinating to me even though I don't buy almost any of the truth claims they say (and I've heard of some of the other stuff JS did like the polygamy), it's also what makes me a bit impressed with him because he had the guts to do what most other denominational founders won't do and that is to come up with his own scriptures and his followers managed to create a whole state for themselves (can't say the same for most other religious groups). The BoM is a time capsule as it's I've heard being pointed out and so are most other "scriptures" including the New Testament, I'm pretty much convinced at this point almost nothing is truly original and I guess JS couldn't get away from that even in his own time. I've mentioned this in other videos already but had I been a less educated farmer back then I might have bought into his claims unless I knew the Bible well and when I was still a Christian I mostly had to dismiss JS and his religion on the grounds he was a "false prophet" and that you weren't supposed to add more stuff to the Bible as Revelation 22:18 says (I think I've heard the apologetics on that one and in all fairness that passage seems to mostly refer to the prophecies on that book and not the Bible in general since there was no New Testament then)
Its insane reading the BOM as an exmo. Just bluntly naming names of "Jesus christ and Mary". These names weren't even given to Isiah! It boggles my mind.
The first crack in my testimony of the Book of Mormon was on my mission. Someone asked me “if the Book of Mormon has the fullness of the gospel then why do we need doctrine and covenants and modern prophets?” I did not have an answer and it started my question which was already said in your show. Why didn’t the Book of Mormon say anything on the three degrees of glory? Or on gay marriage? Abortion? Or any modern issue today? It was a question answered after I left and after the ces letter. Joseph smith made it up
Amazing insights... but I do think it's important to recognize the "Burned Over" period from Western New York as notable phase of early U.S. spiritual history
If you are asking me? I would say he got his information from his family traditions, from the prevailing views and legends, in books, current teachings, both religious and secular, and using his imagination and story telling ability in the geographical area of the Susquehanna River, and all the Native American villages close by, he used the rhetoric of the Bible, common for the time, to speak in animated feeling to his amanuensis/stenographers, using the dictation method.
Com todo respeito, esse foi o melhor podcast que já vi por aqui. Muito bem esclarecido, bem detalhado e muitas verdades, que contribuem bastante para tirar a venda dos olhos de muitos membros que quiser aceitar estes relatos tão necessários. Congratulations.
Love learning about religions so I enjoy your podcasts. However, I’m feeling so foolish right now. I’m an old lady and somehow I’ve always envisioned JS holding a pile of golden DINNER plates. Never too old to learn, eh?
In terms of the waters that he was swimming in, I would love to see a similarly themed episode about the New Testament and the council that decided what was in and what was out.
@@nathanbigler Mythvision mostly deals with American Protestant history. It's kinda weird, but basically what they tend to do is go from 1000s BCE to 400s CE then skip over until they get to the 1800s CE, ignoring the 1400 years of old Church (Catholic and Orthodox) history in-between. This may be due to Derek's inherent bias stemming from his personal beef with American Fundamentalism. It's similar to the inherent bias that Mormon Stories has where basically everyone here except John Hamer has very minimalist understanding of Christian history and doctrines outside the Restoration movement. Come to think of it, John Hamer would be the perfect guy to invite to discuss these things. Not only does he know a lot about the history of scriptural authorship and compilation, he personally thinks the ability to add and substract scripture from canon is a major positive innovation of the Restoration movement - to the point that he teaches congregants how to write their own scripture.
Unsure what council you’re referring to where they “decided what was in and what was out” of the NT, but that didn’t really happen. Council of Nicaea was to determining the exact nature of Jesus’ divinity (Jesus being divine wasn’t a topic of debate). Also, the texts/chapters that make up the NT canon are composed of the earliest gospel manuscripts and writings from the apostles. Of course there was eventually a council that determined what should be included, but we know exactly what happened in these council, as they kept avid notes, and the standard they used to compile the canon makes sense. Also I am Protestant so you may be referring to some Catholic Church teachings/councils that as a Protestant, I would reject. Thought I would give my two cents!
One thing that Joseph Smith seems to capitalize on really well is building off ideas already happening. For example, it was already accepted that a book can give divine guidance-the Bible. That book is the cornerstone to many Christian faiths. How convenient that the Book of Mormon becomes the cornerstone. People were also more open to criticize the churches off the day, like they’ve gone faulty. Joseph Smith’s church was a confirmation of those people’s ideas already.
Strangely, if you want to become persuasive and build a following, you don’t do it by changing minds. You do it best by confirming and validating people’s existing (sometimes dormant) beliefs.
Re. First Vision. There were other people who had visions of the divine around this period in America. Joseph Smith may have had something happen that he interpreted as a first vision, but there were other people claiming the same thing at that time.
There were differing stories that were related about the first vision until they sat down and decided which one to go with. JS told some that Nephi showed him the plates, he supposedly told others it was Moroni.
This episode had an excellent use of words, and I was not at all confused by Mike’s words, as I have previously been. I don’t mean to be such an English major, but I love it when I can understand.
0:08 As a nevermo living in Utah, it's difficult to imagine how otherwise intelligent adults can base their life around an unbelievable fairytale. The tooth fairy is more believable.
I don’t know how to get out. My wife and all our children are deep in the church. And every time I see videos like this that gives me pause and start to doubt something happens that immediately renews my faith.
I’m a Nevermo who became a Protestant Christian at 16.any years later, I’m studying the history of the early church. The apostolic church still exists- it’s the ancient Orthodox Church- largely unchanged since the early days. Much of the West just lost touch with it after the schism.
Can you imagine the insights to be gleaned if we trained and fine tuned Large Language Models for the BoM and the 12+ books of the time. A superhuman review and analysis more thorough and accurate than ever before. I’m looking forward to doing this soon
This just occurred to me, but isn't there deeper meaning in Joseph stealing the masonry ritual? The masonry ritual includes an oath actually sworn to God not to divulge it. Joseph stealing it clearly shows that he either didn't believe in oaths, didn't believe in God, or both.
True story, I served in the Billings, Montana/Wyoming mission.... Rex C. Reeves came to a Zone Conference I asked him about the Word of Wisdom. His answer was do not teach non members converting to the LDS church that they must obstain from Caffeine Pop.... Just to quit Coffee, Tea, Tobacco, Alcohol, and harmful drugs as in hard illegal drugs. See Dand Covenants 89....does not include Mountain Dew PepsiCo... Or Coke....... Or whatever has caffeine in it.
The other Elders dared me to ask Elder Reeves who was at the time a General Authority... I thought I was right also giving up Mountain Dew, PepsiCo, coke, but to my surprise the pop companies came out with caffeine free PepsiCo and Coke and Mountain Dew too funny but in Utah in 1989 I started drinking regular Mountain Dew my fridge was always full of PepsiCo for my wife and Mountain Dew for me the Mountain Dew Kid Matthew lol
He was influenced with alcohol and was having the delirium tremens, and so was seeing pink elephants….that kind of scenario. He was deluded. So no angels. Just off his face! And hallucinating.
1:20 As of August 2023, the signs of the Masonic penalties have not been removed from the endowment. The pantomimes for suicide are only shortened: the thumb extended, representing the knife to slit your throat or your vitals, and the hand in cupping shape to catch your heart or your bowels. The temple matron lied to me and told me she doesn’t know what the signs mean. I used to love going to the temple all the time, but now I will never go back.😢 The endowment is definitely not from Jesus.
If I was to pick one power packed episode of Mormon Stories or any other podcast for that matter to share with believing members of the church it might be this one. Thank you. Also I wanted to say that while I was listening to the comments on the first vision i think there is something you kind of under emphasized, as also in previous discussions. You rightly state that there are no contemporary accounts of his first vision for 12 years, no record of him talking about it to anyone, no mentions of it in that 12 year period from any one else.. you said he discussed it with a Methodist minister who had a bad reaction, maybe people ( apologists) suppose he decided to keep quiet about it after that … but I think you should make more of his own words, in his own history as laid out clearly in the pearl of great price - there are several paragraphs or verses which very clearly state that when he was still fourteen and fifteen he was being singled out and persecuted by prominent leaders of different churches for talking about the first vision. He very clearly describes there being a lot of discussion and reaction ( persecution) to his claims he had a vision. He compares himself to Paul and the persecution he received for proclaiming his vision. I think you should emphasize this more , Joseph is not suggesting he kept this quiet at first, he claims there was a big reaction and persecution when he was 14 and 15…. But the historical record is void of any mention of it until the 1830’s?? Makes no sense at all..
I cant help but to think that if JS made it all up and therby lead millions of people astray, he's currently burning in a fiery hell or in the very outer darkness that he always talked about. And that is a crazy place to find oneself in and it would be all his fault. I want to ask him if it was worth it...
Although JS never lived to enjoy the billions of dollars his charlatan's tales have currently brought in, his enjoyment was taken in all of the women he was "Inspired to be sealed to", sisters, mothers and daughters, other men's wives who be sent away on missions so he could have their wives, etc. All of the "visions" his followers had in the temple were from the psilocybin mushrooms he soaked in water then gave the followers. A little trick he learned from a Black man from Mississippi. Their visions were them tripping balls, and being guided by JS to believe what they saw was from God. If there's a hell, he's most certainly in it.
I want to point something very interesting out. During the time of George Frederick Handel, it was written in the oratorio of dixit dominus by we sing many times throughout the oratorio, Abraham, Melchizedek. Now dixit dominus was written somewhere around 1706 on. It was either written in Germany or italy. And it had a lot to do with Catholicism and the beliefs back then. So it was already in existence well before it was written in our doctrine for the priesthood. Maybe someone should check into that
If you know a little more Mormon history, you'd know that the W of W was very loosely followed for many years. JS himself was reported to have imbibed with associates even after he "received revelation" concerning this. He allowed the permitting of a brewery in Nauvoo and had a bar in his new home there. It was in the early 1900s that Wilford Woodruff put it out there that members need to follow the W of W more closely. If you knew most of any of the early members (many were converts), you knew that they drank coffee. Many allowed their children to drink it too. When people worked and lived in cold climates, it was insane to try to survive in those times without coffee.
OMG. I could talk for DAYS about where, when and why J.Smith came up with his half-baked religion, who were his influences, what he likely experienced in the "Burned-over District" at that time, and what he probably read that he misinterpreted and made into the weirdest leftover-soup he called a church. For hours. With receipts.
By the way -> 26:46 this 'vision' was from 1815. Coincidentally Joseph Smith's family moved to the "burned-over district" in [date edited] 1817 or so. He would have been 12 years old - a very "formative" time for any mind let alone one prone to believing every fantasy they heard. The whole area was so drowned in revival tents I'm surprised their family found available land to rent or own. It was an era ripe with fresh lunacy soaked in old lunacy. The next (Asa Wild) visionary noted was when he was about 18 years old when he started making up his own. It's amazing what old newspapers can show. :)
I am not Mormon. Never have been. Never waned to be. . But I have a bone to pick In one breath, you say that Joseph Smith was uneducated In another breath, you say that he read a lot of books and was influenced by them. Can you honestly be uneducated and yet still be an avid reader.
Good episode I learned a lot of things. The similarities between the Masonic information and the Mormon church. Are just too similar to be denied, and yes I'm an inactive member. Looking forward to hearing more.
J. Smith's made up story about how he was visited by Moroni telling him about buried treasure goes back to his childhood hobby reading pirate tales of Captain Kidd.
I was going to the temple to be closer to God. When I learned that it was a Masonic cemetery and my garments were masonic and I had NO IDEA I had to ask myself HOW doing a ritual I knew nothing about helped my relationship with God... it doesn't.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. Much like the frenzy of modern day Influencers, all of this is psychologically indicative of a primal / primitive desire for Relevance and the illusion of Control Issues in a world where life presents things over which humans cannot possibly have meaningful control. Superstition is humanities greatest mental health crisis.
Word!!! Very important imo what you are saying here. Superstition is ever so prevalent nowadays, to me it feels as if many people are overwhelmed by technological life, and they search for something to hold onto that they can understand more easily (=superstition, conspiracy theories, etc) than the complexities of reality. Life is complicated and really needs to be mastered, not everyone is able to do that, and superstitions can make everything seem simpler, which in the end is nothing but a lie imo. Very dangerous self-betrayal.
Early christian fathers and early christian writings talk about certain doctrines such as: baptisms for the dead, deification, baptism for salvation, future apostasy and kingdoms of glory and separate heavens. I think its important to be aware while many of these doctrines arent explicitly taught in the Bible clearly, there are many quotes from christian fathers and in writings.
And I think its important to be aware of Joseph Smith started his "own bank" and defrauded many fellow Mormons from their savings. Also, to talk about Joseph Smith being a con man, a thief, a liar, a sexual predator, a fraud, an occultist and a racists!
The Bible was compiled of manuscripts picked and interpreted by men. There could be and likely are many or several important teachings or practices missing.
As an investigator ( no longer affiliated with the Church) and after joining was able to draw comparisons between the Catholic and the Latter Day Saints Church. In my opinion they have many similarities and that the differences bring both Churches closer. I embrace the similarities and find that the differences are divisive hence, prefer not to go there. Christian churches have a common denominator and really that's all that matters. Thanks.
The same thing happened to me when I was 21 years old. I had an experience like this man and like Joseph Smith. Call it a near death experience call it a psychedelic experience call it anything you like. It happened. And when I heard the story of Joseph Smith it sounded like my own experience. I ended up joining and it's been decades of experiencing the church in this community all over the world except for Africa. No matter how it started it's pretty amazing that it became the best organization on the face of the earth for teaching the principles of happiness to families and children.
According to Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is most likely the right one. So what seems the most likely, that an angel appeared to a young man in the 1800s and told him where an ancient manuscript written on gold plates in a language no one had ever heard of was buried, and that book was in the style of the King James Bible, OR that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up?
Joseph Smit DID NOT write the Book of Mormon. The BOM came mainly from the hand of Sidney Rigdon--collaborating with Hyrum Smith who was an educated brother of Joseph who attended Dartmouth University (not far from the Smith's family home. The basis (theme) of the BOM came mainly from a book entitled "A View Of The Hebrews" authorized Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph Smith's family. Ethan Smith was also a contemporary fellow with Hyrum Smith as Dartmouth College. The leading figure in the early days of the LDS church was in fact Sidney Rigdon (first convert) and young Joseph Smith was view merely as you would view a 'child profit' in a Pentecostal tent revival. Smith's notoriety as a psychic money finder with his magic seer-stone with his money digging was widely known and this background was exploited early on to the folk magic believing rural public to sell the BOM.
After been given pamphlets by Mormons I thought that about two thirds of their religion looked to have definite similarities to Swedenborgianism. I doubt that Joseph Smith could have concocted a religion that's been as successful as it has been without using Swedenborg's ideas as a general model.
I'm really familiar with the writings of Swedenborg, and noticed that John pronounced his name with an "ir" sound as many do when they first come across it.... but it's spelled with an "or" and that's the way it should be pronounced SwedenbORg... the same as 'for' or 'pork,' etc... Great insight, guys...
Years ago in an upper level American history class at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, my professor Dr. Elizabeth White, taught about the temperance movement. As part of that movement there was something called the Cold Water movement in the north east. I’m don’t have primary source documents supporting this, but I would imagine Joseph Smith knew about the Cold Water movement. Does anyone have more information on this?
With regards to the book of enoch. Ive read Colby's article and hes arguing for the circulation of 1 Enoch being around in josephs environment. While i dont think we can say if Joseph would have had access to it, i lean towards he probably didnt. But lets say he did, the thing is the parallels between 1 enoch and josephs enoch are slight and not very strong. Wheras the parallels and themes are striking and near identical to the book of giants found in the dead sea scrolls, purported to be one of the earliest enochic documents and it being only 3 pages vs over 100 pages for 1 enoch. Therefore even if 1 enoch was in the mileu, that doesnt explain how strong the parallels are to the book of giants which it doesnt share with 1 enoch. Watch these 2 videos which go into more explanation.
Since first time in LDS I never believe that, I saw the vision by JS like fiction or fantasy and Idolatría to JS l had been a lot arguments with my husband, and feel so bad, why I looking information about the true. Right now I have talked to my children about LDS. With my husband was a fight because he feel very well in the community, but now he is open his mind. Never wanted seal my marriage . And my perception about baptized the death baptize is totally unrespefully.
My sister brings up that Smith was illiterate whenever I talk to her about issues with the creation of the religion. Is there info out there around this?
Many sources. Some from his mother and especially from the indigenous Onondaga tribes and nation still living in many encampments around his general neighborhood.
Thje quote :Everything about Mormonish that is..." is very similar to a quote bu Oscar Wilde when asked to comment on a colleague's work: "I found your work to be both original and good. However, the part that was good wasn't very original, and the part that was original wasn't very good."
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I have literally been praying to Heavenly Father to help me with my struggles with the LDS faith and now I am here! Thank You so much for helping me sort out so much confusion! Such a HUGE burden is being lifted off of me with each episode I watch. Thank You so much for doing this research for those of us that are so bogged down that we are unable to do it for ourselves.
Run as fast as you can away from those liesvthe morman church is a a lie from HELL! MANY GOID PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DECIEVED RUN FROM IT ABD KNOW IF YOU PRAY TO YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN HE WILL LEAD YOU OUT OF THE MORNAN LIES AND DECEPTION THE MORMAN CHURCH IS A LIE AND AN ABOMANATION TO God Almighty!
Get away from that cult
I'm SO GRATEFUL you haven't let your disentanglement from LDS/Mormonism shipwreck your faith in our 3rce Holy God🤗. I pray Holy Spirit will lead you to a Biblically-sound local church. 🤗❤.
Helly father you been given us Satan or even Lucifer😈
In Truth you have no jesus christ at all. No jesus whosoever on you. But, a shadow of Satanist shadow of him that is 100% counterfeit via NOTT jesus at all but Satan the HELLYfather you are dragged into with this HELL hoax of a SCAM. Smith was and is a Satanist and was that all his life from 1805-1844 his death in carthage prison where he was shot out the window and his soul was sent to Hellfire Damnation and destruction to Big Time Destruction.
@@andreatimmers1720Kulltt😈 controlled you mean
I felt very alone in the world until I found your group a few years ago…after listening to so many of the discussions, it really helped me to let go of the burdens I was raised to carry in this religion ❣️. I don’t feel like I’m less than dirt anymore! I actually feel intelligent after learning so much and realizing I had known it was not for me since I was 15! Thank you all❣️
Well to be fair the Skraeling did kill off the fine Vikings in Newfoundland. Although in Iceland and Greenland they seemed to get along. The Norse were farmers and the Skraeling lived off the sea so there wasn't any real conflict. I think the relationship was mutually beneficial.
Congratulations on getting your freedom back and that you finally broke the chains of bondage from the Mormon Cult Church. Isn't it awesome that you are free now?
@@markkrispin6944 Thanks 🙏
@@jeffk464 🤔
Congratulations on getting out. And I wish you the very best getting help, or counseling to continue the deprogramming you may need 🤍
I am devastated! Delighted to listen to your evidences, and have research to do. Deeply alarmed about the deception wrought by the prophet Joseph Smith who I once unquestionably revered. I am opening up to the conclusion that the restored Gospel is a fabrication of a narcissistic white man. It’s a painful disturbing thought. My question is: Why brother Joseph did you see fit to beguile us with YOUR fantastic visions of religiosity? Tribes of NZ Maori people renounced their spirituality to become enlivened by your supposed “further light and knowledge “. Your doctrine has encouraged so many of us to put aside our cultural / spiritual beliefs. I grieve ever being a part of this church. I am grateful that I deregistered a few years ago. Creating a direct relationship with Jesus free from the shackles of Mormonism is one of the most liberating things I’ve ever done! Thank you Mormon discussions ❤
Blessings
In 2 Corinthians 12:3 Paul of Patmos had a similar vision with some of the King James language included as in “The 1815 First Vision of Norris Stearns”.
I too am free from the shackles as a pacifica convert. Thank goodness i finally seen between tbe cracks and am now free :)
Big hugs to you. ❤
If Jesus makes you free, you are free indeed
My sister and my daughter are both Mormon converts who frequently try to convert me. Years ago while I was on a spiritual journey I read the book of Mormon and looked into their church. I immediately saw so many holes in Joseph Smith's story. It's so puzzling to me how people can believe this guy
They are following the narrative taught to them often since childhood. Many adult converts joined pre-internet so also may not have had all the facts before baptism.
They don't know everything that we know. I'm.also NvrMo but,y husband's family was when he was young and I had a friend when I was teen who's family were Mo. I became interested as a teen and took some classes from friends mom. Then, with my husband's history I wanted to learn more. I found it wasn't for me and why my husband has a still somewhat different view and knowledge of Christianity than I do. But, I doesn't have full Mormon doctrine knowledge and doesn't realize a lot. I know now more than he does.
I grew up Mormon. Before the internet anything questionable about the church was just anti Mormon literature. They can no longer hide the facts.
Yes. So totally brainwashed
@@randyjordan5521yes we are all sinners they dont believe this. They are brainwashed. I go to church but know we arent perfect. We are all prone to do sin. But i believe god forgives. Just dont be a hypocrite be honest god knows any way. Read your bible it never will lead you wrong. Im so sorry so many have been deceived put jesus first
The take away in five words: He made it all up.
Hallelujah!
absolutely.
It’s amazing what people will believe. Now aged 70. I don’t know anything. I know that I’ve no answers. I’m unsure if anything exists beyond this physical life. I do believe in truth, kindness and respect for others opinions. I fall down on the last one. I hope there’s an afterlife as my brother died when young and I want to be with him again.
You don't have to be vocal about it, but you have no obligation to respect an opinion that makes no sense.
@@innervisions1828 Good advice. Thank you.
If you want to look into after life there is a man on TH-cam called Jeff Marra and he interviews many people who had near death experiences. I find them absolutely fascinating. And heart warming.
@therealz 360z So so sorry your Son has died and so young. That’s a terrible loss for you and your family. My brother was 47 and it’s 10 years now since he died by drowning. Sending good wishes for your health and peace of mind. 💕
Trust the bible and jesus and remember god so loved the world that he gave his son to die for our sins. And so we can have eternal life. Thats truth.
This video is overwhelmingly the most important and influential video I’ve seen in the last few years. It sparked a turning point in my life. Thank you Mike, John, and Nemo for your crucial work, voices, and compassion.
Pray about the video and you'll have the holy spirit giving its Truthfullness. Amen but yes it's Truth here plain to all. Smith as usual has been over exposed.
So grateful for this podcast and everyone involved in it.
I have so much regret, sadness, guilt , anger and hatred still that all stems from 10 wasted years in the church when my children were little. Life could have been so much better in those days. Thank you for what you do.
50 lost years here. I feel for you.
I agree with what you said wholeheartedly times 4 for 40 years of lies, deceptions and fraud
I wish I only wasted 10 years
Thank god. I pray you will read the bible and let god lead you to a bible believing church. No person or church is perfect trust jesus he will never fail you but people will. God bless
@@carolynbookstore3519wait to you start reading about the gospel writers and that 6 of Pauls letters are forgeries. We have ZERO eyewitness accounts of Jesus and can not confirm ANY words or actions.
I went to Egypt, I showed our Egyptian Egyptainologist the Mormon picture and he said it was a funeral message. The jars on the bottom of the picture held the heart liver and other body pictures. He said I’ve seen it many many times from tourists.
Even if you look at the funerary papyri and it's damaged form you can tell it's a funeral procession.
And it came to pass that in my adult years I learned the truth and left the church
And it came to pass, I was also out the door!
Just came back, maybe made a mistake. Will keep listening. Thanks...
As a student of religions and history, and even masonry, I love this kind of evaluations. Thought I am not a Mormon.
Joseph Smith made religion so much more complicated than it needs to be. I am a never been and find it really hard to keep up. Still like what you're doing. .
Thanks to Mormon podcasts. You light up my life!
Can’t wait! You are doing great work for those of us who want the truth!!!
Truth is Norman’s are Masonic satanic deep state
Sex offender members are allowed to talk rubbish about good people they’re obsessed with
I really dislike these grifters
Digging till you are buried in h
The above video is spreading lies.
@@richardholmes5676 omg noooo guess you should watch a different video, friend. Peace be with you!
@@Su_aSponte ?
Thank you many times over for your content. I met with the missionaries for almost 3 yrs and couldn't get past the many issues I found with their theology, doctrine, and personal practices. Your content has informed me that I was on the right track questioning what I was being taught in their quest to convert me.
You made a mistake. Seek truth from the Lord, and if you still come up with your same choice...you are not looking hard enough.
The next time you meet w the missionaries perhaps you can educate them.
@@senorbb2150 I doubt very much that would be the case. Thats like a 5 year old trying to teach a Doctor on how to do his job.
@@senorbb2150 I asked them if they would look up some things I brought to their attn. They told me they were not allowed to look at anything other than church materials on the internet. One night, one of them accidentally texted me some inappropriate internet content that was not from a LDS website. That's when I told them they were hypocrites and to make sure they never visited or contacted me again. I busted them in their own lies.
@@karlshaner2453 I have been seeking the truth for over 50 yrs. I have my own truth now. MY TRUTH does not include organized religion. Organized religion is a construct of man to control others.
Years ago I got curious and started reading The book of Morman. I hit the racism and just stopped reading. My heart just said nope that's not from God.
Yep. It was very easy for me to see this too. Not sure how others can believe this. I did not feel the spirit of god or any goodness, I got the ick pretty quickly.
It sure isnt
Word Print Studies from the Berkeley group found only a 1 in a 15 trillion chance that Nephi and Alma were written by the same author.
@@richardholmes5676none of these remote factoids fix the glaring evidence showing the major pillars of Joseph Smith’s story aren't true. If you come from the position to find a way how it can all be true you may be talented enough to do a lot of mental gymnastics. But if you're simply honest you'll realize that there is fraud throughout Joseph creating the Church.
When you realize this then all of the 101 idiosyncrasies finally makes sense and you no longer have to do mental gymnastics
I was raised to be prejudice & I had to unlearn it! You dodged a big bullet❣️ I told them I didn’t wanna be a Mormon at 15, but it’s “My way or the highway “ with them.
He was an avid reader and he combined bits from many of the books he read, for the main bulk of the book. He created the rest in his own mind. It's really sad that so many people bought into this mess, at one time myself included. Until I started doing comparisons, which is when it all fell apart. I'm not one who accepts from bishops "well we must trust in the Lord about it all, it'll be revealed in God's own time". Sorry guys, Joe lied. A lot.
Amen. Well spoken
I'm so glad you're no longer wearing holy bloomers.
@@finalflowerchild What the heck?
It was truly started with a lie a big lie, and the lying continues with some bizarre excuses to keep the lie going. Absolutely, insanity, this Pod cast is truly helping blinded eyes be open.
Plus Joseph Smith was a con man, an occultist, a sexual predator and a racist.
mike and nemo!! love LDS dicussions
It's funny to me now just how obviously post-Enlightenment, Anglo-American Protestant the teachings of the Book of Mormon are. That alone cast doubt on it. When I was a Mormon I didn't understand it, but after being college educated about American protestantism and early folk ideas about Native Americans it cant be more clear.
And it's error of language with shitty broken anti theist satanic trinity from a one whole modalist trinity that smith put that is theist at the low end though. Smith has apostates to himself now not just to outsiders of his hoax scam but himself. Lol
Dear organizers of the Mormon Stories Podcast,
I am grateful for the thought-provoking and informative content you consistently provide. The episode "LDS Discussions Ep. 41" was particularly enlightening as it explored the influences on Joseph Smith and the emergence of Mormonism.
Your dedication to uncovering the intricate connections between historical events, religious movements, and Joseph Smith's visionary experiences is commendable. It sheds new light on the foundations of one of America's most influential religious movements.
I appreciate the inclusion of topics such as the unique doctrines and concepts in Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, the First Vision accounts, and the priesthood restoration. These discussions contribute to a more comprehensive understanding of Joseph Smith's ideas and the development of Mormonism.
Furthermore, I was fascinated by the additional points mentioned in the show notes, such as the King Follett Discourse and the Council of Fifty. These aspects provide deeper insights into Smith's theological ideas and the complexities of his role as a religious and political figure.
Thank you for your diligent research and for engagingly presenting this valuable information. Your podcast continues to be invaluable for those interested in exploring Mormon history and doctrine.
With appreciation,
Vitaly
I always thought Joseph Smith was a creative psychopathic thinker to have dreamed up visions and convinced a huge populace they were real.
I mean, he convinced others to make it a reality. I don't know if it was William Davis that said it, but he acknowledged that Joseph created a pretty amazing organization and life for himself after coming from some pretty hopeless and traumatic circumstances.
It will always be a debate how "harmful" the myths are that we create and try to play out in society.
... but you can also say that Brigham was the charismatic leader who harnessed the trauma of the members and built the empire.
@@bonojennett Without an efficient organizer like Brigham, the Mormon movement would never have grown as massive as it has.
He was the L Ron Hubbard of the 19th C. Charismatic, creative, con-man and cult leader.
@@gregordeor the Paul from the 1st Century. No Christianity without him…..
Anytime someone says they speak to God, run. Whether it’s Moses, Paul, JS, or Ron L Hubbard. We have ZERO need for a god in this period of enlightenment.
He pulled them out of his butt, I mean hat!! Hat making used to use mercury, perhaps he was poisoned. No he was just one of those weird men who are never content with what they have and needed to be in power and control. Reminds me a lot of L Ron Hubbard....
As an ex-Catholic nevermo it's the historical context that makes the BoM and Joseph Smith so fascinating to me even though I don't buy almost any of the truth claims they say (and I've heard of some of the other stuff JS did like the polygamy), it's also what makes me a bit impressed with him because he had the guts to do what most other denominational founders won't do and that is to come up with his own scriptures and his followers managed to create a whole state for themselves (can't say the same for most other religious groups).
The BoM is a time capsule as it's I've heard being pointed out and so are most other "scriptures" including the New Testament, I'm pretty much convinced at this point almost nothing is truly original and I guess JS couldn't get away from that even in his own time. I've mentioned this in other videos already but had I been a less educated farmer back then I might have bought into his claims unless I knew the Bible well and when I was still a Christian I mostly had to dismiss JS and his religion on the grounds he was a "false prophet" and that you weren't supposed to add more stuff to the Bible as Revelation 22:18 says (I think I've heard the apologetics on that one and in all fairness that passage seems to mostly refer to the prophecies on that book and not the Bible in general since there was no New Testament then)
Its insane reading the BOM as an exmo. Just bluntly naming names of "Jesus christ and Mary". These names weren't even given to Isiah! It boggles my mind.
The first crack in my testimony of the Book of Mormon was on my mission. Someone asked me “if the Book of Mormon has the fullness of the gospel then why do we need doctrine and covenants and modern prophets?” I did not have an answer and it started my question which was already said in your show. Why didn’t the Book of Mormon say anything on the three degrees of glory? Or on gay marriage? Abortion? Or any modern issue today? It was a question answered after I left and after the ces letter. Joseph smith made it up
Amazing insights... but I do think it's important to recognize the "Burned Over" period from Western New York as notable phase of early U.S. spiritual history
Are you guys going to do an episode on the origins of the plan of salvation? Would love to hear something like that. Keep up the good work!
This is a treasure trove of information. Wonderful summary and overview.
1:08:13 John: "Why did God even need Joseph? He could have just hired an editor, basically."
If you are asking me? I would say he got his information from his family traditions, from the prevailing views and legends, in books, current teachings, both religious and secular, and using his imagination and story telling ability in the geographical area of the Susquehanna River, and all the Native American villages close by, he used the rhetoric of the Bible, common for the time, to speak in animated feeling to his amanuensis/stenographers, using the dictation method.
You guys present the evidence so well and it answers so many questions that I’ve had about the church!! Thank you!
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Thanks for all the research you’ve done!
Com todo respeito, esse foi o melhor podcast que já vi por aqui. Muito bem esclarecido, bem detalhado e muitas verdades, que contribuem bastante para tirar a venda dos olhos de muitos membros que quiser aceitar estes relatos tão necessários.
Congratulations.
You guys are doing such important work, thank you!
I would love to see Russell Marriott Nelson's face while he watches this episode.😅
Amazing podcast! Thank you so much!
Love learning about religions so I enjoy your podcasts. However, I’m feeling so foolish right now. I’m an old lady and somehow I’ve always envisioned JS holding a pile of golden DINNER plates. Never too old to learn, eh?
Oh that is funny. “Emma, break out the gold plates, Sidney and Oliver are coming over for dinner”. Ha ha.
Jjetsam3: thank you for sharing ❤😂 your comment is gold 😂😂😂
Joseph was accustomed to duping people re. treasure seeking, so, why would he not think he could dupe people about religion?
In terms of the waters that he was swimming in, I would love to see a similarly themed episode about the New Testament and the council that decided what was in and what was out.
Another good source will be Bart Ehrman.
@@nathanbigler Mythvision mostly deals with American Protestant history. It's kinda weird, but basically what they tend to do is go from 1000s BCE to 400s CE then skip over until they get to the 1800s CE, ignoring the 1400 years of old Church (Catholic and Orthodox) history in-between. This may be due to Derek's inherent bias stemming from his personal beef with American Fundamentalism. It's similar to the inherent bias that Mormon Stories has where basically everyone here except John Hamer has very minimalist understanding of Christian history and doctrines outside the Restoration movement.
Come to think of it, John Hamer would be the perfect guy to invite to discuss these things. Not only does he know a lot about the history of scriptural authorship and compilation, he personally thinks the ability to add and substract scripture from canon is a major positive innovation of the Restoration movement - to the point that he teaches congregants how to write their own scripture.
Try Dr Richard Carrier.
Unsure what council you’re referring to where they “decided what was in and what was out” of the NT, but that didn’t really happen. Council of Nicaea was to determining the exact nature of Jesus’ divinity (Jesus being divine wasn’t a topic of debate). Also, the texts/chapters that make up the NT canon are composed of the earliest gospel manuscripts and writings from the apostles. Of course there was eventually a council that determined what should be included, but we know exactly what happened in these council, as they kept avid notes, and the standard they used to compile the canon makes sense.
Also I am Protestant so you may be referring to some Catholic Church teachings/councils that as a Protestant, I would reject.
Thought I would give my two cents!
You would probably like reading books by Dr. James Tabor. He has a channel too.
One thing that Joseph Smith seems to capitalize on really well is building off ideas already happening. For example, it was already accepted that a book can give divine guidance-the Bible. That book is the cornerstone to many Christian faiths. How convenient that the Book of Mormon becomes the cornerstone. People were also more open to criticize the churches off the day, like they’ve gone faulty. Joseph Smith’s church was a confirmation of those people’s ideas already.
Strangely, if you want to become persuasive and build a following, you don’t do it by changing minds. You do it best by confirming and validating people’s existing (sometimes dormant) beliefs.
Re. First Vision. There were other people who had visions of the divine around this period in America. Joseph Smith may have had something happen that he interpreted as a first vision, but there were other people claiming the same thing at that time.
so very true!
I'd been wondering about mystic appearances and beliefs around JS during the time of his vision, thanks for sharing!!
There were differing stories that were related about the first vision until they sat down and decided which one to go with. JS told some that Nephi showed him the plates, he supposedly told others it was Moroni.
This episode had an excellent use of words, and I was not at all confused by Mike’s words, as I have previously been. I don’t mean to be such an English major, but I love it when I can understand.
The LDS church is based on intelligence I can see you lack in that department
Don't bother with this Jim Shortland guy. I've seen his very same post here on many other comments. Best -
0:08 As a nevermo living in Utah, it's difficult to imagine how otherwise intelligent adults can base their life around an unbelievable fairytale. The tooth fairy is more believable.
The church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Swindlers
Love this series!
The U.S. has always had religious crazies. That's what I've learned from this podcast.
i love this channel. thank you for all the great content and all your work!! and i want to see Mike;s dogs!
I don’t know how to get out. My wife and all our children are deep in the church. And every time I see videos like this that gives me pause and start to doubt something happens that immediately renews my faith.
I’m a Nevermo who became a Protestant Christian at 16.any years later, I’m studying the history of the early church. The apostolic church still exists- it’s the ancient Orthodox Church- largely unchanged since the early days. Much of the West just lost touch with it after the schism.
Y’all have an awesome podcast as always
Would be nice if they told the truth.
I know that many parts of the Mormon church came from the Masonic Lodge. The handshake and some of the ideas.
Powerful episode!
I remember when I was younger asking why we weren't all vegetarian and people at church looked at me like I was crazy
Can you imagine the insights to be gleaned if we trained and fine tuned Large Language Models for the BoM and the 12+ books of the time. A superhuman review and analysis more thorough and accurate than ever before.
I’m looking forward to doing this soon
Very helpful gentlemen. Excellent presentation.
This just occurred to me, but isn't there deeper meaning in Joseph stealing the masonry ritual? The masonry ritual includes an oath actually sworn to God not to divulge it. Joseph stealing it clearly shows that he either didn't believe in oaths, didn't believe in God, or both.
Interesting point! Or maybe he believed he knew better (i.e., "I know what God ACTUALLY wants") and thus wasn't really bound by oath.
Yes, it’s such a joke. Don’t drink your matcha tea but go ahead have yourself a gallon of Mountain Dew or coke daily 😂
True story, I served in the Billings, Montana/Wyoming mission.... Rex C. Reeves came to a Zone Conference I asked him about the Word of Wisdom. His answer was do not teach non members converting to the LDS church that they must obstain from Caffeine Pop.... Just to quit Coffee, Tea, Tobacco, Alcohol, and harmful drugs as in hard illegal drugs. See Dand Covenants 89....does not include Mountain Dew PepsiCo... Or Coke....... Or whatever has caffeine in it.
The other Elders dared me to ask Elder Reeves who was at the time a General Authority... I thought I was right also giving up Mountain Dew, PepsiCo, coke, but to my surprise the pop companies came out with caffeine free PepsiCo and Coke and Mountain Dew too funny but in Utah in 1989 I started drinking regular Mountain Dew my fridge was always full of PepsiCo for my wife and Mountain Dew for me the Mountain Dew Kid Matthew lol
He was influenced with alcohol and was having the delirium tremens, and so was seeing pink elephants….that kind of scenario. He was deluded. So no angels. Just off his face! And hallucinating.
My bishop didn’t like when I told him that.
@@matthewrennermusic9652.l I'm
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm❤❤🎉❤
1:20 As of August 2023, the signs of the Masonic penalties have not been removed from the endowment. The pantomimes for suicide are only shortened: the thumb extended, representing the knife to slit your throat or your vitals, and the hand in cupping shape to catch your heart or your bowels. The temple matron lied to me and told me she doesn’t know what the signs mean. I used to love going to the temple all the time, but now I will never go back.😢 The endowment is definitely not from Jesus.
Wow great episode! You guys have nailed it!
The LDS church is based on intelligence I can see you lack in that department
If I was to pick one power packed episode of Mormon Stories or any other podcast for that matter to share with believing members of the church it might be this one. Thank you.
Also I wanted to say that while I was listening to the comments on the first vision i think there is something you kind of under emphasized, as also in previous discussions.
You rightly state that there are no contemporary accounts of his first vision for 12 years, no record of him talking about it to anyone, no mentions of it in that 12 year period from any one else.. you said he discussed it with a Methodist minister who had a bad reaction, maybe people ( apologists) suppose he decided to keep quiet about it after that … but I think you should make more of his own words, in his own history as laid out clearly in the pearl of great price - there are several paragraphs or verses which very clearly state that when he was still fourteen and fifteen he was being singled out and persecuted by prominent leaders of different churches for talking about the first vision. He very clearly describes there being a lot of discussion and reaction ( persecution) to his claims he had a vision. He compares himself to Paul and the persecution he received for proclaiming his vision.
I think you should emphasize this more , Joseph is not suggesting he kept this quiet at first, he claims there was a big reaction and persecution when he was 14 and 15….
But the historical record is void of any mention of it until the 1830’s??
Makes no sense at all..
Awsome podcast
I cant help but to think that if JS made it all up and therby lead millions of people astray, he's currently burning in a fiery hell or in the very outer darkness that he always talked about. And that is a crazy place to find oneself in and it would be all his fault. I want to ask him if it was worth it...
Yes except some of us feel that the judeo-christian scriptures and the concept of hell are made up as well
Although JS never lived to enjoy the billions of dollars his charlatan's tales have currently brought in, his enjoyment was taken in all of the women he was "Inspired to be sealed to", sisters, mothers and daughters, other men's wives who be sent away on missions so he could have their wives, etc. All of the "visions" his followers had in the temple were from the psilocybin mushrooms he soaked in water then gave the followers. A little trick he learned from a Black man from Mississippi. Their visions were them tripping balls, and being guided by JS to believe what they saw was from God. If there's a hell, he's most certainly in it.
Joseph Smith is burning in hell without any doubt
Loved this, a great review!
I want to point something very interesting out. During the time of George Frederick Handel, it was written in the oratorio of dixit dominus by we sing many times throughout the oratorio, Abraham, Melchizedek. Now dixit dominus was written somewhere around 1706 on. It was either written in Germany or italy. And it had a lot to do with Catholicism and the beliefs back then. So it was already in existence well before it was written in our doctrine for the priesthood. Maybe someone should check into that
I thought I knew about things,but apparently there were many people who were doing this back then. Keep digging guys, y'all Rock 🪨😊
your a rock head
Wait, so millions of Mormons can't drink coffee because someone in the 19th century cracked a joke?
The immigrants bringing in coffee would not give BY a good deal, so BY said non of my members will buy any coffee.. so they say
The ban on coffee is one of the most ridiculous rules for the Mormon Church members.
If you know a little more Mormon history, you'd know that the W of W was very loosely followed for many years. JS himself was reported to have imbibed with associates even after he "received revelation" concerning this. He allowed the permitting of a brewery in Nauvoo and had a bar in his new home there.
It was in the early 1900s that Wilford Woodruff put it out there that members need to follow the W of W more closely. If you knew most of any of the early members (many were converts), you knew that they drank coffee. Many allowed their children to drink it too. When people worked and lived in cold climates, it was insane to try to survive in those times without coffee.
@@walterpierce6061the banning of tea is crazy too.
@@ashleydanielson3222I agree with you.
It's just crazy and early Mormons drank both coffee and tea before the Word of Wisdom appeared.
OMG. I could talk for DAYS about where, when and why J.Smith came up with his half-baked religion, who were his influences, what he likely experienced in the "Burned-over District" at that time, and what he probably read that he misinterpreted and made into the weirdest leftover-soup he called a church. For hours. With receipts.
By the way -> 26:46 this 'vision' was from 1815. Coincidentally Joseph Smith's family moved to the "burned-over district" in [date edited] 1817 or so. He would have been 12 years old - a very "formative" time for any mind let alone one prone to believing every fantasy they heard. The whole area was so drowned in revival tents I'm surprised their family found available land to rent or own. It was an era ripe with fresh lunacy soaked in old lunacy. The next (Asa Wild) visionary noted was when he was about 18 years old when he started making up his own. It's amazing what old newspapers can show. :)
I am not Mormon. Never have been. Never waned to be. .
But I have a bone to pick
In one breath, you say that Joseph Smith was uneducated
In another breath, you say that he read a lot of books and was influenced by them.
Can you honestly be uneducated and yet still be an avid reader.
Good episode I learned a lot of things. The similarities between the Masonic information and the Mormon church. Are just too similar to be denied, and yes I'm an inactive member. Looking forward to hearing more.
❤so so awesome! Thank you! I am not Mormon and couLd never be. I am old now and find the studies to be captivating.
Great summary episode
Incredible episode... Very well done guys
J. Smith's made up story about how he was visited by Moroni telling him about buried treasure goes back to his childhood hobby reading pirate tales of Captain Kidd.
I was going to the temple to be closer to God. When I learned that it was a Masonic cemetery and my garments were masonic and I had NO IDEA I had to ask myself HOW doing a ritual I knew nothing about helped my relationship with God... it doesn't.
Great perspectives I’m very grateful thank you
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Much like the frenzy of modern day Influencers, all of this is psychologically indicative of a primal / primitive desire for Relevance and the illusion of Control Issues in a world where life presents things over which humans cannot possibly have meaningful control.
Superstition is humanities greatest mental health crisis.
Word!!! Very important imo what you are saying here.
Superstition is ever so prevalent nowadays, to me it feels as if many people are overwhelmed by technological life, and they search for something to hold onto that they can understand more easily (=superstition, conspiracy theories, etc) than the complexities of reality.
Life is complicated and really needs to be mastered, not everyone is able to do that, and superstitions can make everything seem simpler, which in the end is nothing but a lie imo. Very dangerous self-betrayal.
Early christian fathers and early christian writings talk about certain doctrines such as: baptisms for the dead, deification, baptism for salvation, future apostasy and kingdoms of glory and separate heavens. I think its important to be aware while many of these doctrines arent explicitly taught in the Bible clearly, there are many quotes from christian fathers and in writings.
Funny how the Lds follow old testament teachings (such as polygamy) that Jesus himself did away with.
And I think its important to be aware of Joseph Smith started his "own bank" and defrauded many fellow Mormons from their savings. Also, to talk about Joseph Smith being a con man, a thief, a liar, a sexual predator, a fraud, an occultist and a racists!
The Bible was compiled of manuscripts picked and interpreted by men. There could be and likely are many or several important teachings or practices missing.
As an investigator ( no longer affiliated with the Church) and after joining was able to draw comparisons between the Catholic and the Latter Day Saints Church. In my opinion they have many similarities and that the differences bring both Churches closer. I embrace the similarities and find that the differences are divisive hence, prefer not to go there. Christian churches have a common denominator and really that's all that matters. Thanks.
Well done.
The same thing happened to me when I was 21 years old. I had an experience like this man and like Joseph Smith. Call it a near death experience call it a psychedelic experience call it anything you like. It happened. And when I heard the story of Joseph Smith it sounded like my own experience. I ended up joining and it's been decades of experiencing the church in this community all over the world except for Africa. No matter how it started it's pretty amazing that it became the best organization on the face of the earth for teaching the principles of happiness to families and children.
According to Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is most likely the right one. So what seems the most likely, that an angel appeared to a young man in the 1800s and told him where an ancient manuscript written on gold plates in a language no one had ever heard of was buried, and that book was in the style of the King James Bible, OR that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up?
Belief is truely strange !
Joseph Smit DID NOT write the Book of Mormon. The BOM came mainly from the hand of Sidney Rigdon--collaborating with Hyrum Smith who was an educated brother of Joseph who attended Dartmouth University (not far from the Smith's family home. The basis (theme) of the BOM came mainly from a book entitled "A View Of The Hebrews" authorized Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph Smith's family. Ethan Smith was also a contemporary fellow with Hyrum Smith as Dartmouth College. The leading figure in the early days of the LDS church was in fact Sidney Rigdon (first convert) and young Joseph Smith was view merely as you would view a 'child profit' in a Pentecostal tent revival. Smith's notoriety as a psychic money finder with his magic seer-stone with his money digging was widely known and this background was exploited early on to the folk magic believing rural public to sell the BOM.
After been given pamphlets by Mormons I thought that about two thirds of their religion looked to have definite similarities to Swedenborgianism. I doubt that Joseph Smith could have concocted a religion that's been as successful as it has been without using Swedenborg's ideas as a general model.
I'm really familiar with the writings of Swedenborg, and noticed that John pronounced his name with an "ir" sound as many do when they first come across it.... but it's spelled with an "or" and that's the way it should be pronounced SwedenbORg... the same as 'for' or 'pork,' etc... Great insight, guys...
Years ago in an upper level American history class at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, my professor Dr. Elizabeth White, taught about the temperance movement. As part of that movement there was something called the Cold Water movement in the north east. I’m don’t have primary source documents supporting this, but I would imagine Joseph Smith knew about the Cold Water movement. Does anyone have more information on this?
With regards to the book of enoch. Ive read Colby's article and hes arguing for the circulation of 1 Enoch being around in josephs environment. While i dont think we can say if Joseph would have had access to it, i lean towards he probably didnt. But lets say he did, the thing is the parallels between 1 enoch and josephs enoch are slight and not very strong. Wheras the parallels and themes are striking and near identical to the book of giants found in the dead sea scrolls, purported to be one of the earliest enochic documents and it being only 3 pages vs over 100 pages for 1 enoch. Therefore even if 1 enoch was in the mileu, that doesnt explain how strong the parallels are to the book of giants which it doesnt share with 1 enoch.
Watch these 2 videos which go into more explanation.
th-cam.com/video/DLr38J474N0/w-d-xo.html
The Book of giants wasn't found until 1948 so Joseph wouldn't have had access to it.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
Remember mormons: eat sweets, pay, and obey!
Define obedience to leaders- well said.
6:43 King James Version not available to Lehi, yet it’s in the BOM.
I'm very, very disappointed Mike never quoted Leslie Nielsen from Airplane and told John to not call him Shirley.
59 minutes. It's about obedience.
Well done
Since first time in LDS I never believe that, I saw the vision by JS like fiction or fantasy and Idolatría to JS l had been a lot arguments with my husband, and feel so bad, why I looking information about the true. Right now I have talked to my children about LDS. With my husband was a fight because he feel very well in the community, but now he is open his mind. Never wanted seal my marriage . And my perception about baptized the death baptize is totally unrespefully.
Joseph Smith basically wanted lots of money and later access to lots of women and therefore made up his religion.
Many times it is a power/ego trip. Everything else that comes with it is just side dressing.
My sister brings up that Smith was illiterate whenever I talk to her about issues with the creation of the religion. Is there info out there around this?
Many sources. Some from his mother and especially from the indigenous Onondaga tribes and nation still living in many encampments around his general neighborhood.
I thought on the Dartmouth episode about Hyrum Smith (on Mormonism Live) addressed that the beehive was NOT masonic?
Thje quote :Everything about Mormonish that is..." is very similar to a quote bu Oscar Wilde when asked to comment on a colleague's work: "I found your work to be both original and good. However, the part that was good wasn't very original, and the part that was original wasn't very good."