I'm from brazil and your channel is straight to the point, easy to understand. Here is difficult to have access to this type of content, so i usually look for foreign channels, your channel is one of the best i have ever seen. Easy to understand content has a large audience outside the country of origin. Congratulations.
@@Myreph eu tô longe de ser fluente, mas a fala dele é tão polida que acaba sendo fácil, eu aprendi consumindo conteúdo assim aleatoriamente, uma hora quando vc ver tb já aprendeu e nem percebeu.
You just destroyed LTT. He would have had 3 ad plugs to stretch the video to 10 minutes so you can also watch 2 extra ads before the video even starts.
I’m so happy you didn’t waste 18-30minutes of my life to tell me this answer. Good work on testing and just spelling it out clearly. Wish every TH-camr just did this.
Your videos are so damn thorough. You address the main concerns of the general audience, and then go beyond into the really technical side and manage to explain it in a digestible way. I was impressed with the quality of your videos when I found your channel last year, but you just keep getting better. Thanks for your videos Ali, I hope you never stop!
Been rocking the G305 for over a year now and I absolutely love it. I have tried the viper ultimate and viper mini and they feel snappier but the g305 just fit my hand better which makes it a lot more comfortable to use for quick movements and extended use without feeling fatigued. Always go for size and shape that fit your hand over specs and features.
@@CellarDoorCS Lowering the debounce setting gives the mouse less latency however, results in the mouse being additionally susceptible to accidental double clicks.
Your content gets better and better, it's now at the absolute top compared to other channels in my opinion. You use the tools you have way more purposefully compared to other channels to get straightforward results. And your aesthetics are just on point.
I experienced something completely different when testing my Model O Wireless on wired vs wireless mode. I used the 960 FPS camera on my phone to record 3 mouse clicks on wired and wireless mode respectively. The monitor I used is 360hz so frame latency is negligible. The mouse was also set to 0ms debounce. With the wire plugged in, I experienced just 1 frame of lag each of the 3 times. But when I had the mouse on wireless mode, there were 10 frames of lag each of the 3 times.
Great video, although the differences are small they are measurable. I’ve done similar tests and the problems with the wireless stuff is that the latency isn’t consistent depending on battery level and sometimes just complete randomness!!!! If “really good” is good enough then enjoy the comfort of your higher end wireless stuff.
For me an adjustable amount of force you have to put on the trigger would be a nice option. I've tested countless gaming mice and they all need the power of a sledgehammer to klick the button. With the Cherry MW 2400 i randomly stumbled over, i found a mouse with a astonishing force/precision/cost ratio.
Excellent video and everything was explained nicely. The first thing I did when I connected my Model O wireless to my PC was to set the debounce time to 0ms. Immediately it felt faster than any my wired mice I was using before.
An interesting thing about debounce that I have discovered while researching it for the GMMK Pro is that there are two major methods of doing it. The first is what (I think) Glorious is doing, deferred debounce. In this setup, the mouse or keyboard waits until after the debounce time is up to send the click/key press. This is less prone to errors, but, obviously, slower since it is waiting. Then there is eager debounce where it sends the click/key press as soon as it first registers it but then ignores subsequent clicks/presses for the specified debounce time. As you might imagine, that's better for gaming as there is no delay. Since lowering the debounce time on the MOW also lowers the click latency, we can assume that a) it's using deferred debounce and b) the actual latency of the mouse and transmitter are quite low. If they simply switch to eager debounce, it will perform very well regardless of debounce time. This also suggests that the Pwnage mouse is already using eager debounce but just has really bad latency since changing the debounce had no effect on latency. Either that or the setting is just broken.
I veered away from a wireless mouse for a long time because I was afraid of inconsistency and signal loss. Wireless mice feel smoother and I'm going to try one soon.
Hi Ali there is a difference! I was just looking at this issue and came across a TH-cam tester doing the same! Thanks for your hard work. I bought the viper ultimate due to this latency.
@@rdmz135 thats where mousepads come into play. There are speedpads and control pads. Mice feet should be smooth regardless of the speed of your mousepad.
This is such an amazing video and technology that Nvidia has developed. The fact that the software can detect audio vs a hardwire "connection" with no delay difference is insane.
This is SUCH an awesome video breakdown! Awesome job dude!! Not sure how you managed to consolidate such a detail-rich video essay into 7minutes. This is phenomenal! Great job!
Ali, your content has always been a cut above, but this; scientific method, statistics, everything. Keep doing what you do man, brilliant to watch. Glad you're almost at 500k (and getting the recognition you deserve).
I think he was at something like 48k subs when I first found his channel and assumed he had 300k+ subs or something because of how clean everything was at the time lol.
@@iJansport Agreed. I’m also curious if using a Logitech wireless mouse alongside a wireless keyboard introduces extra lag when compared to just using a single wireless peripheral.
@@NOSfusion I have razer viper ultimate and a rog falchion wireless keyboard. I play Apex Legends and overwatch most of the time. No latency or delay whatsoever. no cut off or signal lost when playing. My accuracy is way better and faster now. The only downside is Apex Legends servers sucks. Now I'm on a hunt for a wireless headset for gaming, might as well go all out wireless for my peripherals. :D
@@chy.0190 wow you’re so smart you watched a youtube video calling it a meme so it must be!!! Lol think for yourself, when i flick my mouse a certain spot on my mat it should constantly go to the same spot on my screen. “Muscle memory” is misunderstood for a whole other meaning when in reality all it means is consistency.
Double-click speed does not control debounce time, the wireless Ultra Custom Symmetrical lacks such an option within the software entirely. Furthermore, the MM710 allows for lowering click latency through the software, so the tested value does not represent the lowest possible latency. Another addition to the values given for the G305 at different polling rates: On some mice (depending on firmware implementation), the click events are detached internally from sensor events, i.e., irrespective from the currently set polling rate, click events will always be transmitted at the highest possible frequency. While this is not the case on the G305, it is the case on the Logitech G402 or Razer Viper 8K. Lastly, it's also important to keep in mind that wireless delay for click events and sensor data isn't necessarily identical. As such, a mouse that scores almost the same in the click latency test when comparing wired and wireless may have significantly higher sensor motion delay in wireless mode.
great video and a very professional and scientific approach to this test. I bought a viper ultimate around a year back and have always wondered how true the claim on the box was about 25% faster than the next wireless mouse so its cool to see I didnt get lied to
There's more to latency than click latency. Most wireless mice still have sensor delay, however it is very minimal on high end wireless mice like the GPW. On the other hand wireless mice based on the 3335 sensor show a noticeable delay when you initiate motion, but that delay reduces when the motion speeds up. So the delay is inconsistent.
Hey do you think you could make a review of the Pwnage symm 2 when it comes out? Also if you do make a review for it, it would be very helpful if you included a latency test to see if pwnage improved it all. Since that would make a big difference if it is a great mouse or not.
Great video. Can you also do a test for the new Razer Orochi V2 please? I'm sure there are tons of people out there who would like to know this as well. Again thanks for this video.
Huge fan of the channel - but not convinced - I am much more interested in standard deviation numbers comparing wired & wireless. - Every wireless mouse I ever used, has occasional blips in responsiveness. - check out -- Battle(non)sense -- He is hardcore - his Razer Viper 8k vid is a nice start.
@@HollowRick I wish he clarified this on his channel as well. I don't care about twitter. He is free to do whatever he feels like of course. But he is still perceived as an authority in mouse reviews and has his website dedicated to it si it's a bit tricky to maintain impartiality.
@@ecvent0r I only have twitter to follow certain people other than that it's trash haha 😄 and yeah it would be hard to do twitter.com/RocketJumpNinja/status/1388293918610006017 Here's the twitter post btw ^
Ali's partner: "He's probably thinking about other girls" Ali: "I wonder if I can use use audio to test mouse latency" Ps. Absolutely thrilling video. Will be referencing this to my friends that still somehow believe wired is superior 🤣
@Optimum Tech the double click speed from the software adjusts the speed at which you open a folder; it's a Windows setting that you can modify from Control Panel -> Pointer settings Source: am a mouse
Click latency is just one part of the equation... What about sensor deviation & accuracy while wireless. I think this is so overlooked.. I can tell a clear difference in regards to muscle memory accuracy. Wired mice with a proper sensor (3389 or anything pixart) are much more accurate with muscle memory than any other mouse i've tried.
Really good video Ali, very interesting. I personally don't use wireless mice, as I don't really want to have to charge peripherals and don't use my pc away from my desk.
Just got mine yesterday and I got to say, coming from a g900 to this is night and day in my gaming performance. (I think the g900 weighs like 103-106 grams while the viper mini weighs 61 which is insanse :)
Debounce does not affect mouse-down latency, if the firmware is correct. Only mouse-up latency. If the test application is measuring mouse-up latency, that's a methodology problem.
swapped from a 2013 deathadder to a deathadder v2 pro and the wireless feature is so fast I was suprised how much faster it was than an older wired mouse. the mouse feels so much more responsive now while also not having a cable tugging on it.
As someone who has dismantled tons of mice, I just hate the design flaw in the Omron switches present in all of them. I have so many mice that have failed, all for the same reason, the Omron click switches break because it's just an incredibly thin piece of bent copper spring. I just want to hope optical switches may be more durable (maybe...) and want to give them a chance over Omron switches.
The graphics driver and monitor lag in this test is huge. I understand that it's the 'real' percieved latency in a game, but the mouse latency is only a small part of it and putting it into a graph with names of mice is questionable at least. The mice could be sorted in a different way if you measured them properly. I tested mouse latency at home (no lab equipment) years ago, by recording the mouse click which plays a short sound sample through a soundcard with ASIO. The click-to-sound computing delay in ASIO can reach under 1ms when using the smallest buffer sizes. The LDAT method seems to add like 10-15ms. My 14y old Logitech G9 laser (which I'm still using btw) measured at 2-5ms latency. Razer Naga (long dead) placed 2nd with 9-14ms, razer orbweaver 12-18ms, an ancient PS/2 keyboard 34-48ms.
Excellent video. It confirms our suspicions about wireless being no downgrade from wired. At it makes Razer seem like it's not as overpriced as we thought.
There is no debounce setting in the Pwnage software! That slider means the double click speed to open folders, it's a Windows setting, those 3 sliders are Windows settings, not mouse settings, so they do basically nothing but they make the software look "better" I guess.
Great vid man very interesting. My hesitation with wireless is moreso concerns with movement latency rather than click latency. Is there a video about that on the horizon? 🤔
At this point latency doesn't matter, when I was choosing a new mouse, I was trying to decide weather to get the glorious model o wired or wireless. It all came down to how often I wanted to use the mouse. Since I use the mouse pretty often and don't want to charge it ever, I got the wired model o. Also I want the mouse to last a while and batteries degrade :(
From a raw physics perspective, the difference between a wireless and wired connection at the distances mice are from their receivers should be negligible but to stick a number to it, say less than 0.1ms. Then maybe throw in another 0.2ms for the wireless encoding another 0.2 ms for the decoding and I arrive at a somewhat reasonable 0.5ms difference. Shockingly, this seems to be accurate from what you tested. Differences larger than 0.5ms should be design choices made by the engineering and firmware teams.
Awesome video glad to hear this about wireless mice since i can never see myself going back to wired i love my Model O wireless and cant wait to pick up the Model D Wireless
I wonder where the G502 Lightspeed sits in this stack- I have two of them, one for gaming and one for office use (as the cheap mouse I had previously started double clicking). Latency never crossed my mind, so I’m curious!
And I would like to give my two cents about wireless mice: a while ago I bought a new razer pro click(I prefer big mouse) and I never experienced a latency nor lag in games(BF4, Apex, Titanfall). The mouse was connected through Bluetooth. I guess Razer did a good job with convection reliability...
It would be nice if you include some cheap office mice for reference so that we can see how those more expensive gaming mice compete against cheap regular mice.
New upload on gaming channel also! th-cam.com/video/MT6cQINQWoo/w-d-xo.html
Would've love to if you added the 8000hz mouse on 2:44 👍
Any idea how the G Pro wireless compares?
razer viper and basilisk at the same speed?
P
Can you the same type of video with keyboards please!!!
This is an absolutely brilliant video, man. Very impressive stuff.
BadSeed woohoo!^^
Hello Mr. Seed
Brian will you be reviewing Schiit Hel 2? I wanna know your thoughts on it.
The beard has spoken.
Completely agree.
So that 0.3ms is the reason I'm missing my headshots. Thanks man, great to know
Some of the Bloody mouses has 0.2 ms latency.
@@sweetyx1180 bloody mouses suck
@Pasam Naga laxmi they are so heavy
@@mistypikku that doesn't means they suck, that means it's not suitable for you.
@@sweetyx1180 no, they're just genuinely bad. End of conversation.
I'm from brazil and your channel is straight to the point, easy to understand. Here is difficult to have access to this type of content, so i usually look for foreign channels, your channel is one of the best i have ever seen.
Easy to understand content has a large audience outside the country of origin. Congratulations.
Mt pika
Quem te perguntou? Kkkkkk
Também adoro o canal, as vezes fico meio perdida e como não tem legenda disponível a gente tem que dar um jeito, mas o conteúdo é incrível
O canal dele é incrível mesmo. Direto ao ponto, sem enrolação, informações limpas na tela e bem explicadas.
@@Myreph eu tô longe de ser fluente, mas a fala dele é tão polida que acaba sendo fácil, eu aprendi consumindo conteúdo assim aleatoriamente, uma hora quando vc ver tb já aprendeu e nem percebeu.
Dude, that's precisely the content we want: Clear methodology, clear results, no bulls**t. Kudos!
😅
This guy makes one of the best videos, straight to the point, easy to understand without unnecessary "filler" talk. Thank you for that! :D
You just destroyed LTT. He would have had 3 ad plugs to stretch the video to 10 minutes so you can also watch 2 extra ads before the video even starts.
@@mtx247 Well I use Sponsorblock so i avoid trhat :D
@@evilleader1991 I just skip ahead in the video and use ad blocker.
They look great too
i agree
I’m so happy you didn’t waste 18-30minutes of my life to tell me this answer. Good work on testing and just spelling it out clearly. Wish every TH-camr just did this.
Bearded Bob?
@@markusuusitalo9846 every! not one or two
This is some high quality content.
@real t3xq stfu
@real t3xq you’re unnecessary just like your comment
@real t3xq Enjoy them both
Your videos are so damn thorough. You address the main concerns of the general audience, and then go beyond into the really technical side and manage to explain it in a digestible way. I was impressed with the quality of your videos when I found your channel last year, but you just keep getting better. Thanks for your videos Ali, I hope you never stop!
I'm still amazed that this video is under 7 minutes long. Information density at this level on TH-cam is remarkably rare.
The amount of information packed into under 7 mins here is wild. such a good video.
Appreciate the support man 👊
@@optimumtech Great job, but would you mind giving us data on the supposedly top mouse from AtomPalm?
@@optimumtech have you seen the new “god of mice” final mouse ?
S
@@optimumtech h
Been rocking the G305 for over a year now and I absolutely love it. I have tried the viper ultimate and viper mini and they feel snappier but the g305 just fit my hand better which makes it a lot more comfortable to use for quick movements and extended use without feeling fatigued. Always go for size and shape that fit your hand over specs and features.
Maybe you could test cheap wired vs cheap wireless mice as a follow-up? Perhaps at the low end there is a latency difference between them
This man solving gamer's problems ONE VIDEO AT A TIME.😁
Ahhh yes, some optimum tech to finish the day
superlight master race let’s goooo
Yeah boiiii glorious model O wireless!
I have a g pro can i still join? ;3
Will pick up a Superlight in the coming months. Cords are getting in the way a lot.
That's cool and all but Model 0 is the most overrated mouse on the planet
Hey, it's Mr Kandy
Well, I had no idea the debounce setting existed on the glorious mouse, so thank you for that!
Is that the double click speed? - I'm slightly confused about this part when the video zooms in onto.
.
@@CellarDoorCS Lowering the debounce setting gives the mouse less latency however, results in the mouse being additionally susceptible to accidental double clicks.
Your content gets better and better, it's now at the absolute top compared to other channels in my opinion. You use the tools you have way more purposefully compared to other channels to get straightforward results. And your aesthetics are just on point.
I experienced something completely different when testing my Model O Wireless on wired vs wireless mode.
I used the 960 FPS camera on my phone to record 3 mouse clicks on wired and wireless mode respectively. The monitor I used is 360hz so frame latency is negligible. The mouse was also set to 0ms debounce.
With the wire plugged in, I experienced just 1 frame of lag each of the 3 times. But when I had the mouse on wireless mode, there were 10 frames of lag each of the 3 times.
Great video, although the differences are small they are measurable. I’ve done similar tests and the problems with the wireless stuff is that the latency isn’t consistent depending on battery level and sometimes just complete randomness!!!! If “really good” is good enough then enjoy the comfort of your higher end wireless stuff.
Man if you did a podcast that would be some damn good content. Keep up the great work
Absolutely agree with this.
For me an adjustable amount of force you have to put on the trigger would be a nice option. I've tested countless gaming mice and they all need the power of a sledgehammer to klick the button. With the Cherry MW 2400 i randomly stumbled over, i found a mouse with a astonishing force/precision/cost ratio.
I never consistently watch videos from a single channel, but every video here is interesting and well done
Excellent video and everything was explained nicely. The first thing I did when I connected my Model O wireless to my PC was to set the debounce time to 0ms. Immediately it felt faster than any my wired mice I was using before.
Wasn’t expecting this video. Great stuff!Also my Viper Mini is coming tomorrow!
An interesting thing about debounce that I have discovered while researching it for the GMMK Pro is that there are two major methods of doing it. The first is what (I think) Glorious is doing, deferred debounce. In this setup, the mouse or keyboard waits until after the debounce time is up to send the click/key press. This is less prone to errors, but, obviously, slower since it is waiting. Then there is eager debounce where it sends the click/key press as soon as it first registers it but then ignores subsequent clicks/presses for the specified debounce time. As you might imagine, that's better for gaming as there is no delay. Since lowering the debounce time on the MOW also lowers the click latency, we can assume that a) it's using deferred debounce and b) the actual latency of the mouse and transmitter are quite low. If they simply switch to eager debounce, it will perform very well regardless of debounce time. This also suggests that the Pwnage mouse is already using eager debounce but just has really bad latency since changing the debounce had no effect on latency. Either that or the setting is just broken.
💺q
Waiting for your review on the Orochi V2
love how you handle those type of videos and make them not to complicated. keep on your style and much love from germany.
Your choice of music doesn't get enough preise imo so here it is, great choice of music as always!
I veered away from a wireless mouse for a long time because I was afraid of inconsistency and signal loss. Wireless mice feel smoother and I'm going to try one soon.
Hi Ali there is a difference! I was just looking at this issue and came across a TH-cam tester doing the same! Thanks for your hard work. I bought the viper ultimate due to this latency.
I would definitely recommend getting some corepads replacement mouse feet for the viper ultimate. Stock feet are ok, but these make the glide smoother
@@iJansport Glide is personal preference tho. Not everyone wants a faster glide.
@@rdmz135 thats where mousepads come into play. There are speedpads and control pads. Mice feet should be smooth regardless of the speed of your mousepad.
This is such an amazing video and technology that Nvidia has developed. The fact that the software can detect audio vs a hardwire "connection" with no delay difference is insane.
i'd bet that there is a delay but they probably managed to find a way to adjust for it well. doesn't make it any less impressive tho
Wow, I'm even happier with my G Pro Superlight, I truly like it a lot :) Thanks for the test man
Same with my Viper Ultimate
I've been a big advocate of wired mice, but when I saw the Orochi V2 I decided to get it. It actually looks so dope.
is the same size as the viper mini or bigger
I ordered it too but the latency may make me want to go back to wired :/ I care about performance the most
@@kae2678wired is better
Great video, would be cool if you would make a keyboard latency test video as well
Yeah I'd be really interested this, especially if there are any differences between wireless/wired and Micro-usb/usb c
DId this guy just break youtube and gave the answer within 30 seconds of the start of the video?? without even mentioning sponsors? goat !
Ali, you seem to be favored by the YT algo Gods! Keep up what you are doing.
Of course, I really like your content. Love from India!
This is SUCH an awesome video breakdown! Awesome job dude!! Not sure how you managed to consolidate such a detail-rich video essay into 7minutes. This is phenomenal! Great job!
Ali, your content has always been a cut above, but this; scientific method, statistics, everything. Keep doing what you do man, brilliant to watch. Glad you're almost at 500k (and getting the recognition you deserve).
I think he was at something like 48k subs when I first found his channel and assumed he had 300k+ subs or something because of how clean everything was at the time lol.
@@WayStedYou Same here! Think it might've been around 35k I first subbed... super cool to see the growth.
I main’d my viper mini because it felt so much more responsive than my Aerox 3 in all games and now I know by how much. Great video!!
Keyboard latency next please! GMMK Pro, wired customs, aviator cables vs USB-C, Logitech Wireless, etc.
Would love to see a video on this!
@@iJansport Agreed. I’m also curious if using a Logitech wireless mouse alongside a wireless keyboard introduces extra lag when compared to just using a single wireless peripheral.
@@NOSfusion I have razer viper ultimate and a rog falchion wireless keyboard. I play Apex Legends and overwatch most of the time. No latency or delay whatsoever. no cut off or signal lost when playing. My accuracy is way better and faster now. The only downside is Apex Legends servers sucks. Now I'm on a hunt for a wireless headset for gaming, might as well go all out wireless for my peripherals. :D
Much better than RJN's absolutely unscientific uncontrolled latency testing.
I think mouse movement latency is far more important than click latency. It would be great to know what mice perform better wireless or wired
There's a big difference in latency & accuracy (muscle memory) on mice.. Most mouse reviewers are sleeping on this subject..
@@chy.0190 wow you’re so smart you watched a youtube video calling it a meme so it must be!!! Lol think for yourself, when i flick my mouse a certain spot on my mat it should constantly go to the same spot on my screen. “Muscle memory” is misunderstood for a whole other meaning when in reality all it means is consistency.
Good point. Harder to measure though
Double-click speed does not control debounce time, the wireless Ultra Custom Symmetrical lacks such an option within the software entirely. Furthermore, the MM710 allows for lowering click latency through the software, so the tested value does not represent the lowest possible latency.
Another addition to the values given for the G305 at different polling rates: On some mice (depending on firmware implementation), the click events are detached internally from sensor events, i.e., irrespective from the currently set polling rate, click events will always be transmitted at the highest possible frequency. While this is not the case on the G305, it is the case on the Logitech G402 or Razer Viper 8K.
Lastly, it's also important to keep in mind that wireless delay for click events and sensor data isn't necessarily identical. As such, a mouse that scores almost the same in the click latency test when comparing wired and wireless may have significantly higher sensor motion delay in wireless mode.
I was worried when I saw my Model O wireless show so low in the list. Thanks to you my debounce is now set to zero. Instant sub!
great video and a very professional and scientific approach to this test. I bought a viper ultimate around a year back and have always wondered how true the claim on the box was about 25% faster than the next wireless mouse so its cool to see I didnt get lied to
There's more to latency than click latency. Most wireless mice still have sensor delay, however it is very minimal on high end wireless mice like the GPW. On the other hand wireless mice based on the 3335 sensor show a noticeable delay when you initiate motion, but that delay reduces when the motion speeds up. So the delay is inconsistent.
both the analysis and the quality of video + post production are prime. thank you.
Thank you so much for testing this stuff, I've been going nuts trying to find proper latency analysis for some of these mice.
Great video, thank you Ali. Btw when is your review of the Loque Raw S1 coming?
Hey do you think you could make a review of the Pwnage symm 2 when it comes out? Also if you do make a review for it, it would be very helpful if you included a latency test to see if pwnage improved it all. Since that would make a big difference if it is a great mouse or not.
Great video. Can you also do a test for the new Razer Orochi V2 please? I'm sure there are tons of people out there who would like to know this as well. Again thanks for this video.
love the details, so happy I'm bad at games so I would have missed latency or not :)
Same
Fantastic video, always making great analyzes of actually sought after information, keep up the amazing work Ali
The work you put in is always really impressive.
Huge fan of the channel - but not convinced - I am much more interested in standard deviation numbers comparing wired & wireless. - Every wireless mouse I ever used, has occasional blips in responsiveness. - check out -- Battle(non)sense -- He is hardcore - his Razer Viper 8k vid is a nice start.
If he was a tech professor, I would take all the classes he lectures.
What about if he was a vacuum cleaner salesman?
lol his video is awesome! I'm so glad you did this test. I have a model O and I didn't even know about this debounce time.
When recommendation is faster than notification
Great video and insight! Would be great to see testing between wired vs wireless headset latency tests in the near future as well!
Looks like Ali is taking up Rocket Jump Ninja's mantle. :bigbosssalute:
RJN is kind of finished. He is very overrated in the current ecosystem of mouse reviewers. Just does self indulgent lazy marketing pieces.
boardzy masterrace
@@ecvent0r technically he is done he posted on twitter that RJN reviews are taking a backseat so he can design more mice with xtrfy and write novels
@@HollowRick I wish he clarified this on his channel as well. I don't care about twitter. He is free to do whatever he feels like of course. But he is still perceived as an authority in mouse reviews and has his website dedicated to it si it's a bit tricky to maintain impartiality.
@@ecvent0r I only have twitter to follow certain people other than that it's trash haha 😄 and yeah it would be hard to do
twitter.com/RocketJumpNinja/status/1388293918610006017
Here's the twitter post btw ^
Finally, a very good video on the subject. Nice and compact and straight to the point while still giving all necessary information -> Subscribed now.
Ali's partner: "He's probably thinking about other girls"
Ali: "I wonder if I can use use audio to test mouse latency"
Ps. Absolutely thrilling video. Will be referencing this to my friends that still somehow believe wired is superior 🤣
@Optimum Tech
the double click speed from the software adjusts the speed at which you open a folder; it's a Windows setting that you can modify from Control Panel -> Pointer settings
Source: am a mouse
im not even an FPS gamer but optimum tech, gotta watch
Click latency is just one part of the equation... What about sensor deviation & accuracy while wireless. I think this is so overlooked.. I can tell a clear difference in regards to muscle memory accuracy. Wired mice with a proper sensor (3389 or anything pixart) are much more accurate with muscle memory than any other mouse i've tried.
This type of video is exactly why people like me love this channel lol
Really good video Ali, very interesting. I personally don't use wireless mice, as I don't really want to have to charge peripherals and don't use my pc away from my desk.
I now appreciste my Viper Mini even more.
Just got mine yesterday and I got to say, coming from a g900 to this is night and day in my gaming performance. (I think the g900 weighs like 103-106 grams while the viper mini weighs 61 which is insanse :)
Good shit. Transparent reliable methodology. Most of the other reviewers are slacking hard going on "I didn't feel any lag" 😂
Wired is always faster, because it's a stable connection
Very informative video thank you. I just bought an Alienware 610M for my new gaming PC. Benefit here I guess is that its both wired and wirelss
I trust this guy over linus for everything lmao
I just love how I search for something and this channel always pops up with exactly what I wanted to see/know :D
no reason to not go wireless at this point.
@geek_ultraa good double a battery lasts like a year
Wow, just perfect. Can't imagine this video being any better, props!
Debounce does not affect mouse-down latency, if the firmware is correct. Only mouse-up latency.
If the test application is measuring mouse-up latency, that's a methodology problem.
swapped from a 2013 deathadder to a deathadder v2 pro and the wireless feature is so fast I was suprised how much faster it was than an older wired mouse. the mouse feels so much more responsive now while also not having a cable tugging on it.
I just bought that mouse🎉
As someone who has dismantled tons of mice, I just hate the design flaw in the Omron switches present in all of them. I have so many mice that have failed, all for the same reason, the Omron click switches break because it's just an incredibly thin piece of bent copper spring. I just want to hope optical switches may be more durable (maybe...) and want to give them a chance over Omron switches.
The graphics driver and monitor lag in this test is huge. I understand that it's the 'real' percieved latency in a game, but the mouse latency is only a small part of it and putting it into a graph with names of mice is questionable at least. The mice could be sorted in a different way if you measured them properly.
I tested mouse latency at home (no lab equipment) years ago, by recording the mouse click which plays a short sound sample through a soundcard with ASIO. The click-to-sound computing delay in ASIO can reach under 1ms when using the smallest buffer sizes. The LDAT method seems to add like 10-15ms. My 14y old Logitech G9 laser (which I'm still using btw) measured at 2-5ms latency. Razer Naga (long dead) placed 2nd with 9-14ms, razer orbweaver 12-18ms, an ancient PS/2 keyboard 34-48ms.
Excellent video. It confirms our suspicions about wireless being no downgrade from wired. At it makes Razer seem like it's not as overpriced as we thought.
Easy to understand, straightforward, quality content.
It’s everything that viewers could asked for.
This channel needs more subs. Impressive and cohesive work!
I love your videos. Always straight up, calming voice, informative af
There is no debounce setting in the Pwnage software! That slider means the double click speed to open folders, it's a Windows setting, those 3 sliders are Windows settings, not mouse settings, so they do basically nothing but they make the software look "better" I guess.
Great vid man very interesting. My hesitation with wireless is moreso concerns with movement latency rather than click latency. Is there a video about that on the horizon? 🤔
At this point latency doesn't matter, when I was choosing a new mouse, I was trying to decide weather to get the glorious model o wired or wireless. It all came down to how often I wanted to use the mouse. Since I use the mouse pretty often and don't want to charge it ever, I got the wired model o. Also I want the mouse to last a while and batteries degrade :(
I really enjoy my Razer Viper Ultimate, glad to see it is actually good and not just in my head.
From a raw physics perspective, the difference between a wireless and wired connection at the distances mice are from their receivers should be negligible but to stick a number to it, say less than 0.1ms. Then maybe throw in another 0.2ms for the wireless encoding another 0.2 ms for the decoding and I arrive at a somewhat reasonable 0.5ms difference. Shockingly, this seems to be accurate from what you tested. Differences larger than 0.5ms should be design choices made by the engineering and firmware teams.
Super good content, would love to see more mice tested like this. Especially interested in how the Vaxee mice perform!
Awesome video glad to hear this about wireless mice since i can never see myself going back to wired i love my Model O wireless and cant wait to pick up the Model D Wireless
I wonder where the G502 Lightspeed sits in this stack- I have two of them, one for gaming and one for office use (as the cheap mouse I had previously started double clicking).
Latency never crossed my mind, so I’m curious!
And I would like to give my two cents about wireless mice: a while ago I bought a new razer pro click(I prefer big mouse) and I never experienced a latency nor lag in games(BF4, Apex, Titanfall). The mouse was connected through Bluetooth. I guess Razer did a good job with convection reliability...
Awesome video ! Really wanted a pwnage custom but I think I’ll just wait for a bit and stick with my Viper mini for the time being .
Wired connections are and always will be faster, that's why you don't have you cpu or gpu connecter wirelessly to your pc
Outstanding! Doing the reviews the community needs:)
Thanks for that, a great review and comparison. Pity Razor's material/product quality doens't match their speed :(
Outstanding. Here’s hoping you can go back and include previously reviewed mice?
It would be nice if you include some cheap office mice for reference so that we can see how those more expensive gaming mice compete against cheap regular mice.
Amazing review! Does the model d- wireless perform the same as a model o wireless? Thank you!