Thanks for the great video! Main point for using 800 dpi as main is the fact that it's the highest DPI that can be played in many different games for a very high cm/360 sensitivity. A lot of the new games don't have sensitivity sliders / numbers that can go low enough when you're using 1600, unfortunately. Adjusting windows sens is a no go - it always created issues in the past.
@@moretoastedthanatoasterstr9773 i play on 12000 DPI and its just amazing for me with high fps to match. To each his own i suggest everyone try high dpi low sens to at least see how they like it.
@@UltraMegaFail ya no I I complete agree was playing on 400 dpi like 2 months after I got a computer and iv had it since 2014 and fuck me wish I bump the dpi a long time ago
wrong but semi right. as an FPS player who is high rank in all FPS games (radiant valorant, global csgo, FPL). we use 400 DPI and 800 DPI because it's more consistent when it comes to pixel tracking. if there is less variable for mistake on lower DPI but if you go too low it will become skippy and unplayable so people assumed 800 DPI was the best but 400DPI has been proven to be just as good.
@@Soleft i can only speak on behalf of everyone i know and everyone in the pro scene of FPS games. it's not like there is a data sheet, we just can feel the difference
@@kmndra5831 even worse is some games in full screen borderless modes, high DPI can make the invisible cursor go outside the border and then when you click you click out of the game
@@wile123456 He's probably talking about the program "raw accel" iirc there used to be a raw accel dll injection so it's compatible with virtually everything.
really wish you would test other sensors besides this one! would be interesting to see if this curve drawn is universal or some affect of the sensor in the death adder.
its the death adder. Theres other testing by other people with many more test subjects that show this. The G Pro X superlight was tested alongside the 10khz models that just came out, there was no latency difference between them. The death adder is unique in this oddity.
Polling rate = temporal resolution. DPI = spatial resolution. The higher latency from slower movement is because time = distance/velocity. The "distance between dots per 1 inch" is greater at lower DPI before the sensor registers movement, and hence faster mouse movement nullifies this.
@@BattleNonSense I can imagine, thanks for the hard work. Ever since you announced it I was very curious about the results. Maybe you'd be able to make the movement slower by using gears? Or will that be too complicated or maybe cause too much inaccuracy?
@@BattleNonSense Thanks for the results. I would be very very very interested in the same test just with different brands. Take 2 common logitech mice, a razer, a Corsair and compare them please. And if possible with an even lower initial speed, because when tracking a target while full auto I am sure I dont move my mouse as fast as seen in your first test... Thanks! :)
the best way to look at DPI vs Sensitivity is to think of analog signals. The high DPI is a hardware version of a high signal, while the high sensitivity is a software amplification. With a high dpi (i use 900) and a lower sensitivity, you can get the fast movements you want without sacrificing the super fine details when you are sniping long distances. You cannot just say they have the same equivalent DPI because the sensitivity x DPI is the same number. How the system amplifies each signal will cause issues.
with 900 dpi you basically make your mouse in need to add an interpolation process while registering your mouse mouvement wich can create jitter and inaccuracy. Most mouse has a native dpi of 800 so you need to make a dpi number that is a multiple of 800 since 900 its not a multiple of 800 I suggest you first to check the native dpi of your mouse and use a multiple of it for native 800 dpi use 800 - 1600 - 2400 - 3200 - 4000 etc (tbh more than 2400 is useless in my opinion) Also you need to take in count your monitor this is due to the fact that DPI does not adjust with resolution, meaning lower DPI settings on higher resolution monitors can cause slight stuttering and imprecise aiming in games. Just realise its a 2 years old comment lol. You probably doesnt care anymore at all aha
Keep in mind, USB devices don't send updates on their own, they are "polled" at a rate by the computer. The higher DPI's diminishing results may be due to that polling rate. Some mice let you increase that rate.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it All his graphs are showing is a delta normalized DPI, DPI / (hand distance / cursor distance moved) * delta. This is simply how mouse sensors work, the lower your DPI the longer between your mouse jumping pixels, this should be obvious and common sense considering you know that DPI means "Dots Per Inch." Waffle never claimed it's determined by the PC so we already know you're intellectually disingenuous lol
@@SoftBreadSoft I have actually read tge USB protocol specifications and have programmed USB devises. The 1kHz polling rate was the max available in hatdware for USB 1.1 and 2.0. Only USB 3.0 added the ability to clock the interrupt transfers ss multiples of 125us instead of 1ms.
The polling is done by the USB controller, not the "PC". While there are devices which alow changing the polling rate, these are pre-defined by the device. The PC may choose which one, but they are pre-determined by the device, not the PC. I'm familiar with the actual USB specification, I've done ISB development. I know how this shit operates.
If anyone is having a hard time with windows sensitivity you can go into the registry to edit in decimals. I am running 3200DPI most of the so I run it at 2.5 though it doesn't display in either of the mouse menus. Remember to backup your registry before you make any changes. The reg Key is "Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse" > "MouseSensitivity"
I want to use 6400dpi, but the problem I encounter in game is that the mouse will be too fast, even in lowest game sensivity. My question is, will a low windows mouse sensitivity solve the problem with high DPI I described above?
Are the results adjusted for sensitivity? Cuz it would be interesting to see if there is a difference between (let's say) "100 DPI with sensitivity 10" in game compared "1000 DPI with sensitivity 1" to see if there is a delay because the sensor isn't registering the movement or simply because the game doesn't update the camera position because the input value is too small!
I think he's not using a game with a concept of 'sensitivity' or 'eDPI', it's using software which flashes the screen black -> white on an input (i.e. one mouse packet with count values)
Amazing channel!!! Subscribed! Loved the testing methodology and it helped me understanding why I do prefer higher dpi (1600) over the "standard" 400...
BE CAREFUL NOT TO INCREASE DPI TOO HIGH ON YOUR MOUSE, some mice will start smoothing at certain DPI points and will have higher latency. All of Razer's new wireless mice have very good sensors with little to no smoothing (hard to tell) up to 20,000 DPI.
@@rubenbaczo8497 will be less raw, will have like a "filter" between your hardware(mouse) and the cursor in the monitor, will not be 1:1 (mouse movement and cursor in monitor), and this usually add latency (less real time between the response with the mouse/system)
Should have used eDPI to maintain the same overall "sensitivity" and relationship between DPI and in game sensitivity values. If he doubled the DPI, halving the in game value would maintain the same relationship. Otherwise all we're seeing is the time relation between sensor signals as the sensor tracks it's position
I just read your farewell announcement Chris. I'm sad that you're no longer able to make new content due to circumstances out of your control but I'm also glad to have be here with you since the beginning of your TH-cam journey since the Battlefield 4 days. Your videos have always been top notch quality and I appreciated every second of it. You are very talented and it's very rare to find someone such as yourself who consistently creates top quality TH-cam content. I hope everything works out for you and your family and I wish you all the best. Good luck to you and your family and take care of yourself Chris. ♥
I am always set to 800DPI and it seems that it's perfectly fine for pretty much all situations, I rarely have a game that it too high on minimum value, I tried 1600DPI to get the tiny reduction in latency but some games couldn't go low enough and I can't be bothered constantly switching, but the difference in latency between 800 and 1600 is so minor anyway
To avoid jitter, there is nil response when going from "distance moved 0 dots -> 1 dot", the larger in size the dot, the larger the delay to go from value 0 to value 1.
Are you sure this is not simply "the lower the dpi the more movement needs to be done to start mouse movement, hence high delay (of the first action, not continuous actions)"?
I would wager that this is almost entirely a sensitivity effect, not a latency effect. Controlling for the difference in sensitivity by testing e.g. 1600dpi 4sens against 800dpi 8sens should nullify the overwhelming majority of the difference. Chris is using the data measured with different sensitivites to say that a higher DPI which is scaled down to have equal sensitivity would have an improved latency. The data does not support this at all - it's a mistake in interpretation.
That's the thing. Lower DPI requires more movement to be registered, and is thus slower. The higher DPI for a given movement, the more often updates get registered, hence lower input lag. It's similar to how higher FPS provides lower input lag due to more updates, except that in the case of mouse, the frequency scales with movement speed, hence lower delay at higher speeds. At very high speeds, the input lag due to DPI updates approaches zero, leaving the rest of the system lag that in this case seems to be 20ms.
You didnt mention the reason behind the increased input lag. It seems logical to me, that lower DPI "react" slower because the steps between each count are larger, so you have to cover a larger area until the sensor starts detecting movement. Amirite?
This also means that discarding 50% of the mouse counts (or making them move a camera 50% as much) via using a lower sensitivity multiplier would nullify any latency improvement from doubling DPI.
@@AerynGaming Exactly. As soon as every DPI adjustment meets the distance necessary to report 1 count, ALL of then would have the SAME exact input lag at that moment. This video has the most stupid conclusion ever about how mice resolution works. It's like saying that 4k gaming has 50% less input lag at horizontal and vertical movements because you're moving "double the pixels". You can arguee that higher DPI resolution at the same speed will trigger higher polling rate frequency report, but AGAIN, this would be nulified as soon as the lower DPI settings moves the same distance needed for a single count. The only effect that would had at going at higher DPI values is a smoother "granularity effect", that people misinterpret as "pixel skipping". Assuming that the eDPI would be the same.
Are you sure you aren't measuring a different effect? Like how perhaps a slower DPI means the mouse will have to move further to register sufficient change? In both refresh rates at 100 DPI, you measure about +20ms response time compared to the fastest DPI setting, which suggests to me you are measuring the hysteresis of your setup. Solid methodology though!
he always measure the same distance and the same speed, its like setting low dpi and high in game sens vs high dpi low and low in game sens, it looks correct to me
@@Anderson_Roger I feel like static in game sens is a right choice here, so only the dpi of a mouse can have an impact on the result, he couldnt done both, to keep eDPI the same and compare, but I feel that in game sens being just a multiplier of the mouse dpi, wouldnt change anything
I had a similar thought. For these tests, if you scaled in-game sensitivity with DPI, then I think the results would be more comparable. Meaning, 100 DPI with 5 sens would become 200 DPI with 2.5 sens, and so on. Therefore, the amount of 'turning' that occurs is the same since the ratio of DPI to sensitivity is the same.
Also big note: in games with high zoom levels(i.e. battlefield 4's 40x scope) low dpi will fuck up your aim as it'll become jittery, at that point if you're gonna snipe from long range you might as well use a controller instead with how jittery the aiming becomes at sub800 dpi
I've always been using 400 DPI, not only because it feels good imo, but also because a lot of games have horrible ingame sensitivity settings, sometimes not even supporting decimal spaces. That means I basically have to use a low DPI to get anywhere near my usual eDPI. But I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem :/
Yup that was the main reason I stuck to 400 dpi for so long, but recently after battlenonsense made this discovery I switched to 800 dpi anything higher is too fast for me, and so far I havent ran into too many problems with sensitivity scaling in modern games, but a few years ago it was really common.
@@TheKillerZmile raw input doesnt invalidate the use of a higher DPI. Raw input means mouse input goes directly to game, meaning the input doesnt get rendered by your windows sensitivity settings or mouse acceleration by windows, anything like that. It's useful for sure, but the whole DPI thing still applies. 400 DPI is pretty suboptimal but unless you NEED every competitive edge you can get, you should probably go up to 800 or 1600. Just because my mouse can I use 12000 DPI with sensitivity on everything including windows scaled all the way down. Unless a game doesn't support extremely low sensitivities I have the DPI scaled up in Logitech G HUB. If your mouse can increase DPI super high I recommend you try it out, it's super cool to see how responsive your camera is to tiny mouse adjustments. And when you take a second to look close you can see how unresponsive your mouse was compared to with a higher DPI. This is unnoticeable with normal use unless you're making microadjustments in an FPS game
For anyone curious, i suggest you to calculate your EDPI first. It's basically your current DPI X In game sensitivity. For example, 400dpi x 1.3 sentivity= 520 edpi. If you want to switch to higher dpi, simple divide your EDPI to the new DPI option. For example, 520 edpi÷800dpi= 0.65 is the new in game sensitivity with 800 dpi.
1.3 what sensitivity? in pubg that i care about there is vertical sensitivity and general sensitivity but the general is 0-100 and i have it 42 with 1100 dpi,that means my edpi is 46200,so if i want to go 400 dpi that makes 46200/400dpi=115,5 so i cant do that,,,i guess in pubg works till around 500dpi or something...on higher dpi works ok i guess couse you can go to the 0 if you need too...
The reason I'm not moving up to higher dpi values from my 400 is because my edpi feels the same as the standard windows cursor speed (which is 6). Therefore, if I increase dpi, my cursor will fly very quickly, and slowing it down through the mouse parameters in windows will add mouse acceleration (you can check it by yourself by using Mouse Movement Recorder app), so I do not recommend sacrificing the lack of acceleration for the sake of a couple of milliseconds of Input-lag. Display scaling in windows settings also adds mouse acceleration, so keep it 100%.
Damn Yesterday I was thinking does dpi makes a difference in latency and I saw you're Razer Viper 8K Video and what I Saw is the higher DPI you go up until 3200 the lower the delay gets, but I watched this video and now I play at 1600 dpi instead of 400 dpi cause all the pro's made it 400 I copied but thank you Battle(non)sense for making me change my mind, EDIT: btw I use very low sens at 2000 edpi and moving my mouse like a turtle that's why I changed it
He didn't really come to the conclusion that higher DPI = better. He specifically states so in the video. Only a single mouse was tested and other potential variables need to be considered. I've watched Logitech engineers explain how their sensor technology works in their top end mice and DPI should not impact input latency, only how fast the mouse moves.
Well He tested the razer viper 8k and that's my mouse, and tbh I really don't care about how minor is the difference in latency if I get it lower than its good for me and I'm playing with a comfortable 1600 DPI and he stated to use what ever dpi you use and I use very low sens and move my mouse very slow so that's why I made the Dpi Higher and it feels for some reason smooth and no it wasn't pixel skipping .
@Alex.UA6 Yea, not necessarily more delayed, but just generally bad. nobody would ever deliberately decide to use 500HZ over 1000HZ. I can see people deciding to use 1000HZ over 2K of 4K because they got used to 1K, but generally most inputs from a 500HZ mouse will be more delayed than a 1000HZ one
it depend on the game tbh for example r6 is coded for 128hz mouse polling rate so if you use 1000hz there you nerf yourself. apex legends for example support max 500hz (mby that changed i talk about like a year ago i didnt play r6 and apex since) so better use 500 on apex and most game tbh counter strike does support very well high mouse polling rate so its fine to use 1000hz + there same for valorant and im not sure but i think call of duty also support it very well.
Great video. I’d like to see a video about changing the in-OS Windows sensitivity and how it affects games and input lag. Historically, adjusting the in-OS Windows mouse sensitivity from its default position produces major mouse inaccuracies, which can lead to your games feeling all wrong. It is reminiscent to when you have the “Enhance pointer precision” checkbox set on ON. (Which you should also never do.) There is a lot of research out there about it that you can Google for anyone curious.
Most games nowadays use raw input from the mouse though, so that _shouldn't_ be a factor. Unless you're playing an older game of course. Completely agree that it could be a nice video to see though, just get a definitive answer once and for all.
@jparkerwillis I’d also like to know if the settings are different if you’re using the new Windows 10 sensitivity slider or the classic method inside the Control Panel.
@@Plazmunky It's the new one that matters in Windows 10, not sure why everyone always talks about it like there's just 11 steps. The "classic" steps just correlate to _1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20_ on the new slider - yet all of those on the new one do affect cursor movement. If you set it to 19 for example, instead of 20 there is a difference 5% in speed.
@@BattleNonSense hi there, I'm curious about using macro software like X-Mouse button control will add some input lag, can you test it? for some reason many gamers use that software to change or create macro on their mouse like burst click or like auto reload when clicking button
I think this makes logical sense due to a lower DPI value only detecting movement after a larger physical distance on your mousepad. This will mean the first input is naturally going to be delayed, however this is the very reason many pro gamers will choose to use 400 DPI, because it detects only significant inputs and will not move your crosshair held on a pixel with a shaky hand for instance. As seen by Battle(non)sense's test with flick shots however, it does not have an effect on the latency of the mouse.
This is exactly why I use 450DPI (used 400 @ 1080p, went to 450 when I upgraded to 1440p). I tried 800 and it's not steady enough, picks up too many micro movements.
@@chy.0190 No, csgo works really well on 400 and pros will usually play 400 or 800 because it is ideal for stability and precision. Only reason I ever left 400 is orher games not doing well on it, but csgo worked just fine.
The reason people use lower dpi is for accuracy and not latency. Latency seems barely different on 800 vs 1600 so perhaps 800 is the best of both worlds if latency really is something you thinks limits you.
i assume the "input lag" is the time between the start of the movement and the first registered "pixel" or "dot" of the sensor. thats probably why the faster solenoid setting reduced the latency in lower dpi setting, because the first pixel would be registered by the sensor earlier
While testing the latency seems useful on the face of it, there's a lot of information missing that would make this test actually useful in real life. First, mouse movement to cursor fidelity at each DPI setting in addition to testing for input lag. Second: testing across multiple mice used in the esports space, from multiple additional brands including (but not limited to) Logitech, HyperX, and Zowie. Third: test how much the proprietary software adds to possible latency (and movement fidelity) by turning it off (which in many cases forces the mouse to a default dpi setting) and adjusting the operating system mouse sensitivity instead. Such a video would be AMAZING.
true, but this dude already puts in so much effort into his videos, it would be insanity to go so much further and actually make these experiments be fully applicable in real-life applications. i'd love to see it, you would love to see it, everyone would love to see it, but i think he'd need a friend or someone to help him with the boring and time-consuming parts. it's sad, but at least we have SOME data which we can apply, and hope it has a positive impact on our latency. i love videos like these because i'm really concerned with the details of my system, even though i'm not yet able to play games professionally. so at least we can find some minimal use from these experiments of his, not all of the effort is going to waste. the main issue is as you said, a lot of missing info. but that does not necessarily mean we can't use these graphs to adjust our system. for instance, me using the razer viper 8k, a DPI of 1600 is going to be objectively the best (check out his other video if you want) no matter if other factors also increase the latency, because afterall it's just going to be simple addition/subtraction, i.e. if an application increases latency, that latency is very unlikely to directly impact how much latency a low DPI induces for instance, instead, their 'scope' is more likely to be separately/individually influencing latency. albeit not impossible, the results should be predictable is what i'm saying, however we have no way to confirm that or know exactly how other factors influence things. and just doing the minimal amount of work to prove this would still be a lot of work.
Very interesting. I have for a long time used high dpi, with in game devider (0.01 - 0.99) as I belived I felt more connected to the game (1800). Then for windows desktop stuff I just used a differnt profile on the mouse.
In Counterstrike we compare sensivity in eDPI which is calculated by multiplying DPI with your sensivity. So If you have a DPI about 800 and a ingame sensivity about 1 but want a smoother Mouse with the same sensivity you need to Set your DPI to 1600 and your ingame sensivity to 0.5. Or 400 DPI and Ingamesense 2 for a more steady but Not so smooth sensivity. Very simple
Did you change the Sensitivity ingame to travel the same distance with different DPI? I think this way you tested, in the first case, 100 dpi will travel a little distance, and the 1600+ will travel so much faster, thats why the 1600+ had less input lag. So changing the DPI will make no difference, just change the velocity will. I think the correct way to test will be travel the same distance (like 30cm) with different DPI/Sensitivity values, to see if the DPI alone will change the Input lag.
Yea, I was wondering the same. Possibly the LDAT software is looking at some minimum delta of movement per frame, and at higher dpi you are more likely to trigger that
I did the same test and compensated the sensitivity to match my old one went from 800 to 1600 but no way to actually measure it feels better tho I don't know maybe just placebo effect.
Good point. Most gamers probably have a pretty tight range of speed at which they're comfortable, so the whole "does more dpi reduce latency" thing only becomes interesting when you want to keep your comfortable, trained speed, but wonder if more or less dpi is better. If you do your 30cm/360°, you want to keep it.
I think it's more to do with you have to move your mouse further to register a change on lower dpi. This being said 1600 still feels more responsive than 400 and because it's smoother, it's easier to track targets even during a flick while at 400 I can't track the image at all.
i just came see this and try it out right away. switching from 800 to 1600 dpi for some reason feels insanely good. tracking in apex feels 100% so much better!
I was thinking the same thing. I’ve always been at 800 and never changed it before because I change my in game sens accordingly. I see this comment is a month old, are you still on 1600 and do you enjoy it?
@@Sandzzy i'm still at 1600 dpi rn and i do really enjoy it! i change my windows mouse cursos speed setting to 5 instead of 6 because its too fast if i just browsing in general.
Another comment on this, Im curentlly using the Razer Death Adder V2 Mini, this is an equivalent of the Razer Viper Mini, just a different shape. If you use a higher DPI, from what i tried using 5000 DPI, the sensor will be inaccurate, it will detect whatever it is on your mousepad that "isn't" your mousepad, Dirt, sweat, or whatever alike, and it moves my mouse by itself, I tested by moving the mouse diagonally top right and then bottom left, a really fast motion, and eventually, if i start at the center of the screen, the mouse will go all the way to the right, sometimes to the bottom right and sometimes to the top right. I've then changed my DPI to 400, and the same problem that was before was now fixed. This just shows to me at least, that higher DPI results in inaccurate sensor tracking, not the sensor's fault in a way, but it is that it is "too good" that it even detects the small hair that was left off of my dog after petting it, and then onto my mousepad, it detects the sweat and whatever dust is on it, i've even cleaned the mousepad, and the higher DPI still had the same problems, By cleaning it, i've used a soft mat, i wet it with a little ammount of small water on the edge of the soft mat, then i gradually cleaned the mousepad with a gradient like motion, top right to bottom left and so on / diagonally, i've cleaned it perfectly to the point i can't see jack s*it of any hair, and it looks really f'kn clean, i've then used a dry mat and cleaned the mousepad again, and so on. Higher DPI doesn't help, it is just an illusion, i hope one day someone will see this comment and actually prove this, because i can't, i've already made a comment about this, in this same youtube video in the comment section somewhere, and i stand by everything i said, low DPI = better, and higher dpi = inaccurate, just an illusion when it comes to less input lag due to the sensor capturing the images faster, only results in less pixel skipping.
I would prefer it if, instead of a slider, I could actually type out a specific sensitivity to 3 decimal places of precision. The relationship between DPI and sens is pretty exponential and shooting for high DPI really requires more precision on the sensitivity scale.
In my setup, frame rate would still matter far more than mouse dpi (mine is 400). My 6700k is falling behind, it seemingly can't keep up with newer games like BFV and is probably bottlenecking the system.
Can you give a reason as to why this is? Taking the dpi value literally as "dots per inch", do you have to displace the first row of dots for the mouse and system to discover the movement? This would explain why faster moving speeds show less dependence on the dpi value, because the faster you get the minor is the different between how long it takes you to cover the first inches of dots NOMATTER how far they are apart? For slower moving speeds, it takes you longer to cover the first row of dots, and for different dpi values, they are spread apart further. Hence the higher influence of the dpi value on the system latency for slow speeds? It would be great to have an explanation next to your testing :) Anyway, as always, great video!
Calling it input lag is a rather poor choice of words, it's not like a signal takes more time to reach its destination but rather there are fewer updates in a given time. He should have made it more clear that it's behaving closer to how polling rate affects input lag which is in the end the amount of information in a given time period.
Basically DPI can be viewed as a measurement update frequency per inch. The higher the DPI the sooner the first measuremnt gets sent when the mouse moves. Which results in lowering the input lag in effect. But we can also increase the physical movement speed of the mouse movement to get the measurement sent earlier when we have low DPI which also lowers the input lag. At certain movement speeds we reach a cap on input lag irrelevant of the DPI.
Question: When at a lower DPI (like 100) it takes a longer distance of travel for the mouse before it sends another signal. A longer travel does not mean more input lag, it means more movement of the mouse before it sends more signals to the pc. Was this considered when making the test? I dont know as much about latency as you do, so correct me if im wrong.
At the slow speed (10mm, 100ms) it should only take 2.5ms to move between DPI points at 100dpi. Maybe the acceleration delay, from stationary to full speed, is affecting it. It could be mouse smoothing built into the firmware.
so basically what i took away from this was; low sens, high dpi high sens, low dpi but depending on what speed youre moving your mouse at neither matters that much. there’s also ig taking into account what kind aimer you are as well as depending on game(s) you play. in a precision FPS shooter like CS or Val for example, if you’re a smooth aimer, it’d be better to play low sens high dpi since most of the time you’ll be trying to achieve the most consistency in accuracy, and obviously from a logical standpoint the vice versa would apply for aimers that like to be more flicky. if you want to achieve the best of both worlds per say then i guess it would be best to go with 800 dpi and whatever you would consider a medium sens. but really at the end of the day its just personal preference. if you read this, ty and have a good one :)
I like to crank the DPI and lower the sensitivity in game to what feels good. Seems to get a much smoother feel. Basically same idea as a higher resolution making a smoother image all other things being equal.
Agreed. in some games though you can do it even if the ingame settings won’t allow it. You just have to tinker with game files. In r6s, you have to open some ini file. It’s not as intuitive but that’s just how it is. It differs for every game.
This is just a great channel. I have never seen any other tech / game channel that put so many good ideas and effort into so many great technical and yet daily occurring topics. Keep it up 👍
A bit of math analysis: - Your graph Y coordinate (time im ms) have 11 sections of 5 ms each. As every section is equal, that Y coordinate is linear plotted. - Your graph X coordinate (DPI) has 8 sections, with unequal sizes. The size of each section increases in a power of two (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ...). That way, the X coordinate is not plotted in a linear way, but in a square law way. That's why the graph data follows an inverse square law curve, because the data itself is linear, but when plotted on a square law graph, will appear non linear. For visualization purposes, that's the best way (the way you did). I'm not criticizing nor questioning the way you did, just adding information in case someone find it to be interesting.
I used to use 400DPI years ago when i first built my own gaming pc. So one day i thought to myself "Just bump it all the way up to 1600DPI" IMO it did feel slightly smoother but I'm not too sure if it was my brain telling me it's smoother 😅 Now the only problem i have with higher DPI is if my in game sensitivity is too high and i go to turn it down a little bit more i can't 😔 Because I've already turned it down to the lowest it will go 😔 I hope all of this makes sense 😅 Now I'm stuck on whether or not to stick with 1600DPI, or go down to 800DPI.
The reason low dpi causes higher delay is simple: 100 dpi is doing 100 samples/inch, 1600dpi is doing 1600 samples/inch. if you move with 1inch/second speed for 1 inch distance: 100dpi = 100 sample per second = 10ms delay between 2 sample 1600dpi = 0.625ms/sample = 0.625ms delay between samples after 1600 the diminishing return kicks in hard and the difference is barely noticeable even on slowly moving mouse. if you move the mouse fast, lets say 10inch/second speed for 1 inch distance: 100dpi = 1000sample/second = 1ms delay 1600dpi = 16000sample/second = 0.0625ms delay That is why there is barely any difference for fast movements. Also there can be differences above these for each mouse because they might process the DPI data differently before sending it.
• I think this whole idea of higher DPI reducing input lag is like a trick of the mind. It might seem like it's reducing input lag because, in tests, the sensor takes more snapshots at higher DPI. But it doesn't really make sense that it would lower input lag. • I mean, if you move the mouse super fast, you can hardly see any difference, which makes me think it's just an illusion. It doesn't actually reduce input lag; it just decreases pixel skipping. • I believe there's a better way to test this. In a test, use the same mouse at a high DPI and a low DPI. For example, set the first test to 400 DPI with 1.0 sensitivity in a game like CS:GO. Move the mouse from right to left and see where you stop in the game. Then switch to 4000 DPI, which is ten times higher. To match the same sensitivity in the game, you'd set it to 0.1 sensitivity. It should feel the same but with less pixel skipping and more movement captured. Do the same thing, move the mouse from left to right, capture it, and see where you stop in the game. • Now, use a high-speed camera to record the footage from both tests, one with 400 DPI and one with 4000 DPI. If higher DPI truly meant lower input lag, you'd see a significant difference in the images, with 4000 DPI being much faster. But in reality, it's likely that they look almost the same. • I'd really like to see more tests like this to prove whether or not higher DPI actually reduces input lag. In my opinion, it's not an advantage, and it might even be worse due to the inconsistency caused by capturing so much more motion.
This video explains why you should set the higher dpi that your sensor supports (e.g.: 32000dpi) and the you need to multiply by ingane sensitivity (0.0375) obtaining an awesome 1200.
edit: Ive just seen this vid pop up in my suggestions and realized that its probably misleading and pointless? I usually like Battlenonsense, but Im pretty sure he completely misinterpretes the data here. This "response time" isnt input lag, at all. Think about it, its the delay till the mouse moves a pixel. What this really shows is that, if moving your mouse at the same speed, you need longer to move a distance with low DPI (=lower sensitivity). Which isnt just not a problem, but literally the point of lower sense. You need to move further, so its easier to be accurate. [/edit] How strange, this throws up more questions than it answers tbh, Id like to see more^^ At least theres hardly any difference between 800 and 3200. So Im probably on the safe side, using 800.
About accuracy and DPI: If you can move your in-game crosshair 1 pixel at a time, increasing DPI and lowering in-game (and Windows') sensitivity to compensate won't make a difference. Increasing in-game sensitivity above a certain point will make your crosshair skip pixels though. In the game I tested (Destiny 2 at 1080p) even the default caused this (10 Sensitivity and 10 ADS Multiplier).
I'm enjoying 3200 dpi at 4K polling. Much more responsive than the 800. Just divided by 3 on the windows and game settings, matches perfectly. I'm just so used to this now, and it feels like it should in games.
I always wondered this. Saw this so moved mine from 800 with high windows speed. To high DPS and lower speed. Found a WEIRD thing with some games :D With top down iso games, where you use wheel/middle mouse and drag to rotate the camera, it treats it with full speed! Ignoring the windows speed haha it just is raw DPI value, i never knew that!
I was also hoping to see testing for DPI changes vs in-game sensitivity as well. I think I set and forgot my mouse at around 1200 dpi and adjust sensitive per game to what feels right. I have a small space for the mouse, and use wrist movents usually, with a little bit of arm room.
The same thing applies. All ingame sensitivity setting affects is how much your camera rotates per pixel traveled. Meaning it depends on your DPI. If your DPI is 1000, your camera will make 1000 movements per inch the mouse travels. If your DPI is 10000, your camera will make 10000 movements per inch the mouse travels. Lower the sensitivity accordingly to make up for this
@@bigbob5103 Pretty old comment but the only FPS games I remember playing the most was the Halo series and that was on console. I dont have much interest in FPS most games in general, not the multiplayer ones anyway.
Long-story short, use higher DPI and lower the in-game sensitivity to make up for it, then after that get a smooth mousepad, trust me it makes all the difference, maybe the mousepad even more.
I always understood that setting the Windows setting to anything other than the default 6/11 would mean you lose a 1:1 relationship between physical mouse movement and how the input is understood by the computer, e.g. skipped pixels for setting higher values. Is that still the case?
4/11 translates to 1/2nd and 3/11 translates to 1/4th. You do keep your 1:1 relationship. But like if you are used to 800 dpi and you go to 1600 dpi for the lesser input lagg but want to remain your 800 dpi mouse feel on desktop. Then you change dpi to 1600 and your windows cursor speed to 4/11
@@SimoneBellomonte 1600 is the highest you'll get any difference on with a 1000hz mouse, highest DPI would be terrible for normal PC usage and for setting sensitivities in game
Maybe mice with lower max DPI on their sensors generally have less input lag than using the same DPI on a mouse with a higher max DPI. So a Viper Mini with 8k max DPI using 1000 DPI has less latency than a Deathadder v2 with 20k max DPI using 1000 DPI because of how high/low the DPI is currently set relative to the maximum DPI possible.
I bet if we took a poll it would show the majority of "resting" DPI is around 1600, in gaming especially FPS I have a 5 stage range I bounce between from 900, 1300, 1600, 1800, 2300.
What you should also keep in mind is your mouse sensor's limits. For example my Razer Deathadder Elite has a maximum DPI value of 16000 but after 1900 DPI it starts to use smoothing which increases input lag. At higher steps is smoothes even more increasing the overall latency so I have to use my mouse at 1800 DPI to avoid this and have the lowest possible input lag.
@@bo0t3r29 i havent gone back to anyless than 1600 dpi since i made my switch. especially now that i been using the superlight. probably if i go lower than sens 1 now. lol.
And might even have more digits to work with. Like when the game only offers two in the UI, but the config file supports 8, so you can have your perfect 1.23624 sens.
Thats what i did from 400 dpi to 1200 dpi and the delay and tracking was better. I up my mouse dpi and lower my windows and ingame sens and its like a free upgrade from 125hz to 1k polling rate. It really detects micro movement which is higher polling rate mouse offers
Been thinking about this, When I increase my DPI to 1000 from 800 (adjusting in game sense to account for eDPI) I feel like it is a bit to responsive with over shooting etc, so maybe I should be looking at a slight reduction in game sens rather than the standard eDPI calculation. :thinking:
Great video, my main gripe is you recommend adjusting the Windows sensitivity at the end. Everything I have read is to NEVER ever ever adjust that to anything other than 6/11 as it introduces imperfect mouse tracking.
The 6/11 info is possibly outdated by many many years. I believe issues are supposed to arise going over 6, not under. Plus, most games use Raw Input, ignoring the Windows slider anyway.
@@ChrisGarcia683 I edited my post a little. It's 4am...i don't have any info off the to top of my head, but will reply when I do and remember . I've personally never needed to adjust it, buts there's MarkC reg tweaks for that. Or Raw Accel for the sens option.
If you disable EPP and use the reg fix, the values below 6/11 are pretty much a linear scale. Going down to 5/11 gives you 75%, 4/11 gives 50% and below that it halves the speed with each step.
Who else is using raw accel? I use this program for 8 months now and I'm really impressed with how it change the aming style. the program is based on linear mouse acceleration. It goes slow when you are moving slow but it encrease the sensitivity when you flick. So I have learned how to use it pretty well and now I can have both low and high sensitivity based on how I'm playing. it is surpriseling esay to master and I don't have any problem when I have to be precise for getting headshots.
this video is very misleading. while everything said and shown is technically correct, it is presented in a way that might cause viewers to draw the wrong conclusion. here's a breakdown of what causes the additional latency at low dpi and movement speed: dpi = dots per inch, or in other words, how many "dots" (an arbitrary unit) the cursor moves if you move the mouse 1 inch. the ratio at which the dots are converted into pixels of cursor movement or degrees of camera rotation doesnt matter as LDAT reacts to raw input directly. 1 inch = 254mm, which means at 100dpi we need to move the mouse 2,54mm to make the mouse register a movement of 1 dot (there are no partial dots) the machine moves the mouse (or the underlying surface, doesnt matter) 10mm in 99ms. in other words, 1 millimeter movement takes 9.9ms, so in order to move the mouse enough to reach the threshhold of 1 dot (at 100dpi) your machine takes a little over 25ms. this time decreases as we increase dpi or movement speed, since the threshhold is reached faster, until it becomes insignificantly small. this causes the additional delay your measurement at low dpi + low speed shows and explains why the difference between low and high dpi in the second run is much smaller. the key point that this video fails to mention is that in practice, playing at lower dpi also means moving the mouse more, as the distance you effectively want the cursor (or camera) to travel stays the same no matter what dpi you play at, which nullifies this effect. thus, a video title like "50% less input lag" is very misleading (again, not misinforming, just misleading) as it only applies to technical benchsmarks such as the one in this video and not actual gameplay scenarios
I feel we are missing an insight here? If we imagine that DPI is the amount of squares on a chessboard, and we use that chessboard as a mouse mat. Each square is a signal of movement from the mouse. So the higher DPI, the more squares on the chessboard. If we now drag our mouse across the chessboard - the smaller the squares, the faster the initial response of movement would be. But would higher DPI really reach its target faster?
Switched my dpi from 400 to 800 and halved my sensitivity in game, changed it from 10 to 7 for desktop mouse settings, a little bit different but wont be difficult to get used to. Definitely notice a slight improvement in input, thanks for the info!
you HAVE to set your windows mouse sens to 6/11 or it will have smoothing/acceleration. and uncheck the box that says "enhance pointer precision". if you dont do this you will never develop proper muscle memory
I would like to note that you can't have windows cursor speed presets like you can with DPI presets. So some games that use the cursor in game will have an uncomfortable speed if you use 2 different DPI for desktop and gaming. Just get a bigger mousepad ;)
My "Sweet Spots" on my go to G502X are 1) 2000: (Normal PC use and some games) 2400 is my MMO setting for whatever reason it just feels good, and 2800 is the highest I go for FPS games or anything with "high sensitivity". this is on a 27inch panel.
It's because high dpi settings are more sensitive than low dpi. The sensor of mouse catches smaller movement of mouse at higher dpi. So as you can see in the video, mouse travel speed affected on initial delay difference between DPIs, But your total travel time to destination(flick time) will be same anyway. Well i don't think this initial low delay provides any benefits. Assuming your dpi is 1600 and in-game sense 0.25 in CSGO. Csgo's degree per pixel is 0.022 so your initial travel degree will be 0.022x0.25 = 0.0055. Compared with 400dpi@1.0(same eDPI) your benefit is only under 0.011°. From over 0.011° to 0.022° scenario, 400dpi will be faster than 1600dpi because 400dpi will jump to 0.022° immediately while 1600dpi still traveling per 0.0055°. Flicking in 0.011° faster but slower in 0.022° isnt meaningful. Use whatever you want. 400dpi is also good option
You’re forgetting that with the same eDPI and high DPI equivalent you will also get significantly smoother motion while tracking because information is sent more often from the mouse as opposed to with low DPI where the game has a stronger multiplier for less data to achieve the same distance traveled. Alongside the input lag benefit, higher DPI is much more precise whether your flicking or tracking.
@@xzraiderzx308 Flicking is more consistent in lower DPI. Lower DPI eliminates shakiness which is the biggest factor that messes up flicks. Tracking is more consistent in higher DPI.
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Thanks for the great video! Main point for using 800 dpi as main is the fact that it's the highest DPI that can be played in many different games for a very high cm/360 sensitivity. A lot of the new games don't have sensitivity sliders / numbers that can go low enough when you're using 1600, unfortunately. Adjusting windows sens is a no go - it always created issues in the past.
Yo exactly I was ganna go to 1600 but most games ingame sensitivity doesn't go fucking down enough doing fucking 3 360s in one mouse swipe
@@moretoastedthanatoasterstr9773 i play on 12000 DPI and its just amazing for me with high fps to match. To each his own i suggest everyone try high dpi low sens to at least see how they like it.
@@UltraMegaFail ya no I I complete agree was playing on 400 dpi like 2 months after I got a computer and iv had it since 2014 and fuck me wish I bump the dpi a long time ago
wrong but semi right. as an FPS player who is high rank in all FPS games (radiant valorant, global csgo, FPL). we use 400 DPI and 800 DPI because it's more consistent when it comes to pixel tracking. if there is less variable for mistake on lower DPI but if you go too low it will become skippy and unplayable so people assumed 800 DPI was the best but 400DPI has been proven to be just as good.
@@Soleft i can only speak on behalf of everyone i know and everyone in the pro scene of FPS games. it's not like there is a data sheet, we just can feel the difference
I love high DPI but I hate how most games the i game sensitivity settings aren't low enough
@@kmndra5831 even worse is some games in full screen borderless modes, high DPI can make the invisible cursor go outside the border and then when you click you click out of the game
I just experience this in New World
With raw accel you can use high dpi with a lower sens multiplier
@@a1e738 I know, that's what I do, but not every game allows you to go low enough in sensitivity if you use 12k DPI and above
@@wile123456 He's probably talking about the program "raw accel" iirc there used to be a raw accel dll injection so it's compatible with virtually everything.
really wish you would test other sensors besides this one! would be interesting to see if this curve drawn is universal or some affect of the sensor in the death adder.
It's kind of sad that he is just testing one mouse. Would be great to see input lag results for the XM1 too.
are all sensors the same?
@@TheKillerZmile no
its the death adder. Theres other testing by other people with many more test subjects that show this. The G Pro X superlight was tested alongside the 10khz models that just came out, there was no latency difference between them. The death adder is unique in this oddity.
@@TheKillerZmile no
Polling rate = temporal resolution. DPI = spatial resolution. The higher latency from slower movement is because time = distance/velocity. The "distance between dots per 1 inch" is greater at lower DPI before the sensor registers movement, and hence faster mouse movement nullifies this.
This
so, keep using 400 dpi ?
@@kontrasergeant yes only noobs watch these videos and think they are real
I've been waiting for this
Yeah this one took a while. :)
Me too, amazing content.
@@BattleNonSense I can imagine, thanks for the hard work. Ever since you announced it I was very curious about the results.
Maybe you'd be able to make the movement slower by using gears? Or will that be too complicated or maybe cause too much inaccuracy?
@@BattleNonSense Thanks for the results. I would be very very very interested in the same test just with different brands. Take 2 common logitech mice, a razer, a Corsair and compare them please. And if possible with an even lower initial speed, because when tracking a target while full auto I am sure I dont move my mouse as fast as seen in your first test... Thanks! :)
@@BattleNonSense quake champions at next patch get nvidia reflex ,plz test input lag 🙂
the best way to look at DPI vs Sensitivity is to think of analog signals. The high DPI is a hardware version of a high signal, while the high sensitivity is a software amplification. With a high dpi (i use 900) and a lower sensitivity, you can get the fast movements you want without sacrificing the super fine details when you are sniping long distances. You cannot just say they have the same equivalent DPI because the sensitivity x DPI is the same number. How the system amplifies each signal will cause issues.
Yeah so basically just go for highest DPI and lower in-game sens accordingly, and you get both more accuracy and less lag.
with 900 dpi you basically make your mouse in need to add an interpolation process while registering your mouse mouvement wich can create jitter and inaccuracy. Most mouse has a native dpi of 800 so you need to make a dpi number that is a multiple of 800 since 900 its not a multiple of 800 I suggest you first to check the native dpi of your mouse and use a multiple of it for native 800 dpi use 800 - 1600 - 2400 - 3200 - 4000 etc (tbh more than 2400 is useless in my opinion) Also you need to take in count your monitor this is due to the fact that DPI does not adjust with resolution, meaning lower DPI settings on higher resolution monitors can cause slight stuttering and imprecise aiming in games. Just realise its a 2 years old comment lol. You probably doesnt care anymore at all aha
Keep in mind, USB devices don't send updates on their own, they are "polled" at a rate by the computer. The higher DPI's diminishing results may be due to that polling rate. Some mice let you increase that rate.
USB 1.1 and 2.0 are 1kHz max, 1ms repear rate. And it's the device that decides this, not the PC.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it All his graphs are showing is a delta normalized DPI, DPI / (hand distance / cursor distance moved) * delta. This is simply how mouse sensors work, the lower your DPI the longer between your mouse jumping pixels, this should be obvious and common sense considering you know that DPI means "Dots Per Inch." Waffle never claimed it's determined by the PC so we already know you're intellectually disingenuous lol
@@SoftBreadSoft I have actually read tge USB protocol specifications and have programmed USB devises. The 1kHz polling rate was the max available in hatdware for USB 1.1 and 2.0.
Only USB 3.0 added the ability to clock the interrupt transfers ss multiples of 125us instead of 1ms.
The polling is done by the USB controller, not the "PC". While there are devices which alow changing the polling rate, these are pre-defined by the device. The PC may choose which one, but they are pre-determined by the device, not the PC. I'm familiar with the actual USB specification, I've done ISB development. I know how this shit operates.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it Was he using USB 1 or 2? That would be another flaw in the video.
If anyone is having a hard time with windows sensitivity you can go into the registry to edit in decimals. I am running 3200DPI most of the so I run it at 2.5 though it doesn't display in either of the mouse menus. Remember to backup your registry before you make any changes. The reg Key is
"Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse" > "MouseSensitivity"
I want to use 6400dpi, but the problem I encounter in game is that the mouse will be too fast, even in lowest game sensivity.
My question is, will a low windows mouse sensitivity solve the problem with high DPI I described above?
Are the results adjusted for sensitivity?
Cuz it would be interesting to see if there is a difference between (let's say) "100 DPI with sensitivity 10" in game compared "1000 DPI with sensitivity 1" to see if there is a delay because the sensor isn't registering the movement or simply because the game doesn't update the camera position because the input value is too small!
= same eDPI
Yeah the test methology is inaccurate and inconclusive without accounting for eDPI. He should retest with the proper ingame sensitivity adjusted.
@@TheVoitokas this
I think he's not using a game with a concept of 'sensitivity' or 'eDPI', it's using software which flashes the screen black -> white on an input (i.e. one mouse packet with count values)
@@tomhepz we still need ingame tests with same eDPI lol. Nobody plays testing software😂
Amazing channel!!!
Subscribed! Loved the testing methodology and it helped me understanding why I do prefer higher dpi (1600) over the "standard" 400...
i use 9000
@@hapticwarframe5730 i use 100000
BE CAREFUL NOT TO INCREASE DPI TOO HIGH ON YOUR MOUSE, some mice will start smoothing at certain DPI points and will have higher latency. All of Razer's new wireless mice have very good sensors with little to no smoothing (hard to tell) up to 20,000 DPI.
I know this is older but I would like to see where you got this info.
@@DoubsGaming I'd never be able to track it down, I actually looked for it a couple days ago. Their is/was a reputable source for that though.
@@DoubsGamingIt's been a month, bit might still be useful. Techpowerup reviews include in-depth testing of sensors, with one part being smoothing.
What does smoothing means and why is it bad?
@@rubenbaczo8497 will be less raw, will have like a "filter" between your hardware(mouse) and the cursor in the monitor, will not be 1:1 (mouse movement and cursor in monitor), and this usually add latency (less real time between the response with the mouse/system)
As other people stated you should compensate for the sensitivity adjustment by changing ingame sensitivity to match the old one.
Should have used eDPI to maintain the same overall "sensitivity" and relationship between DPI and in game sensitivity values.
If he doubled the DPI, halving the in game value would maintain the same relationship.
Otherwise all we're seeing is the time relation between sensor signals as the sensor tracks it's position
@@geologik7500 exactly
I said the same in my comment, he replied as well, I don't think he agrees.
@@Anderson_Roger I think you didn't formulate the question very well, the simplest way to put is as Dane did
@@geologik7500 time relation between sensor signals is delay though. It's not like he measures smoothness, he measures first detectable change.
I just read your farewell announcement Chris. I'm sad that you're no longer able to make new content due to circumstances out of your control but I'm also glad to have be here with you since the beginning of your TH-cam journey since the Battlefield 4 days. Your videos have always been top notch quality and I appreciated every second of it. You are very talented and it's very rare to find someone such as yourself who consistently creates top quality TH-cam content. I hope everything works out for you and your family and I wish you all the best. Good luck to you and your family and take care of yourself Chris. ♥
omg where did you read that?
Has he quit?
what happened?
@@riba2233 yeah he had to leave TH-cam for family reasons. He made a community post on this channel explaining this.
@@Superdazzu2 he had to leave TH-cam for family reasons
I am always set to 800DPI and it seems that it's perfectly fine for pretty much all situations, I rarely have a game that it too high on minimum value, I tried 1600DPI to get the tiny reduction in latency but some games couldn't go low enough and I can't be bothered constantly switching, but the difference in latency between 800 and 1600 is so minor anyway
I set mine to 20k DPI and turned the windows mouse settings cursor speed to 1. Feels the same as 1600 at default windows setting.
@@CABALlc1 you don’t want to fuck with windows settings. Leave it at 6
I believe you can use RawAccel to solve that. Sens multiplier. You also don't have to use the accel feature.
@@CABALlc1 windows mouse settings dont affect any game still played today
on 1080p 800 dpi should be subpixel precise to about 9.4''/360° and slower. on 1440p to about 12.8''/360° and slower, bot assuming 90° fov
To avoid jitter, there is nil response when going from "distance moved 0 dots -> 1 dot", the larger in size the dot, the larger the delay to go from value 0 to value 1.
you have to spam 1 3 1 3 1 3 to get out the lan jitters in freeze time
I always use 1200 dpi. It just feels right for me. Glad to know that is in a good range concerning input lag.
same. but i do use 800 for games
1 thing, speed of tracking and hz ramp are connected. If you move your moouse real slow the sensor won't track at 1000hz.
Why not
@@firellio070 download MarkC windows10 fixer and use the movement recorder. See for yourself. I'm no claiming to know why, but it is like that.
Are you sure this is not simply "the lower the dpi the more movement needs to be done to start mouse movement, hence high delay (of the first action, not continuous actions)"?
This is a very insightful comment.
Maybe using the data for when the mouse stops (instead of the start) can minimize this effect...
Does that matter? are you going to game the system by introducing a quick flick before every tracking attempt?
I would wager that this is almost entirely a sensitivity effect, not a latency effect. Controlling for the difference in sensitivity by testing e.g. 1600dpi 4sens against 800dpi 8sens should nullify the overwhelming majority of the difference.
Chris is using the data measured with different sensitivites to say that a higher DPI which is scaled down to have equal sensitivity would have an improved latency. The data does not support this at all - it's a mistake in interpretation.
That's the thing. Lower DPI requires more movement to be registered, and is thus slower. The higher DPI for a given movement, the more often updates get registered, hence lower input lag. It's similar to how higher FPS provides lower input lag due to more updates, except that in the case of mouse, the frequency scales with movement speed, hence lower delay at higher speeds. At very high speeds, the input lag due to DPI updates approaches zero, leaving the rest of the system lag that in this case seems to be 20ms.
@@AnimeReference yes, it does matter for specific games, bunnyhop to be specific
Awesome! Hopefully you will do that accuracy analysis :)
You didnt mention the reason behind the increased input lag. It seems logical to me, that lower DPI "react" slower because the steps between each count are larger, so you have to cover a larger area until the sensor starts detecting movement. Amirite?
Yes
Obviously it reacts slower. The video is about finding out just how much more input lag it adds, not if.
@@rdmz135 Huh?!! Do you even know how the LDAT works?!
This also means that discarding 50% of the mouse counts (or making them move a camera 50% as much) via using a lower sensitivity multiplier would nullify any latency improvement from doubling DPI.
@@AerynGaming Exactly. As soon as every DPI adjustment meets the distance necessary to report 1 count, ALL of then would have the SAME exact input lag at that moment. This video has the most stupid conclusion ever about how mice resolution works. It's like saying that 4k gaming has 50% less input lag at horizontal and vertical movements because you're moving "double the pixels".
You can arguee that higher DPI resolution at the same speed will trigger higher polling rate frequency report, but AGAIN, this would be nulified as soon as the lower DPI settings moves the same distance needed for a single count.
The only effect that would had at going at higher DPI values is a smoother "granularity effect", that people misinterpret as "pixel skipping". Assuming that the eDPI would be the same.
what we all have been waiting for, amazing job!
Are you sure you aren't measuring a different effect? Like how perhaps a slower DPI means the mouse will have to move further to register sufficient change? In both refresh rates at 100 DPI, you measure about +20ms response time compared to the fastest DPI setting, which suggests to me you are measuring the hysteresis of your setup. Solid methodology though!
he always measure the same distance and the same speed, its like setting low dpi and high in game sens vs high dpi low and low in game sens, it looks correct to me
@@dubby_ow He doesn't do that in this video. See my comment, he even replied confirming that. (he should have done that)
@@Anderson_Roger I feel like static in game sens is a right choice here, so only the dpi of a mouse can have an impact on the result, he couldnt done both, to keep eDPI the same and compare, but I feel that in game sens being just a multiplier of the mouse dpi, wouldnt change anything
I had a similar thought. For these tests, if you scaled in-game sensitivity with DPI, then I think the results would be more comparable. Meaning, 100 DPI with 5 sens would become 200 DPI with 2.5 sens, and so on. Therefore, the amount of 'turning' that occurs is the same since the ratio of DPI to sensitivity is the same.
Also big note: in games with high zoom levels(i.e. battlefield 4's 40x scope) low dpi will fuck up your aim as it'll become jittery, at that point if you're gonna snipe from long range you might as well use a controller instead with how jittery the aiming becomes at sub800 dpi
I've always been using 400 DPI, not only because it feels good imo, but also because a lot of games have horrible ingame sensitivity settings, sometimes not even supporting decimal spaces. That means I basically have to use a low DPI to get anywhere near my usual eDPI.
But I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem :/
Yup that was the main reason I stuck to 400 dpi for so long, but recently after battlenonsense made this discovery I switched to 800 dpi anything higher is too fast for me, and so far I havent ran into too many problems with sensitivity scaling in modern games, but a few years ago it was really common.
esports title have raw input
@@TheKillerZmile raw input doesnt invalidate the use of a higher DPI. Raw input means mouse input goes directly to game, meaning the input doesnt get rendered by your windows sensitivity settings or mouse acceleration by windows, anything like that. It's useful for sure, but the whole DPI thing still applies. 400 DPI is pretty suboptimal but unless you NEED every competitive edge you can get, you should probably go up to 800 or 1600. Just because my mouse can I use 12000 DPI with sensitivity on everything including windows scaled all the way down. Unless a game doesn't support extremely low sensitivities I have the DPI scaled up in Logitech G HUB. If your mouse can increase DPI super high I recommend you try it out, it's super cool to see how responsive your camera is to tiny mouse adjustments. And when you take a second to look close you can see how unresponsive your mouse was compared to with a higher DPI. This is unnoticeable with normal use unless you're making microadjustments in an FPS game
rawaccel homie!
nice videos mate keep up love ur work
For anyone curious, i suggest you to calculate your EDPI first. It's basically your current DPI X In game sensitivity. For example, 400dpi x 1.3 sentivity= 520 edpi. If you want to switch to higher dpi, simple divide your EDPI to the new DPI option. For example, 520 edpi÷800dpi= 0.65 is the new in game sensitivity with 800 dpi.
1.3 what sensitivity? in pubg that i care about there is vertical sensitivity and general sensitivity but the general is 0-100 and i have it 42 with 1100 dpi,that means my edpi is 46200,so if i want to go 400 dpi that makes 46200/400dpi=115,5 so i cant do that,,,i guess in pubg works till around 500dpi or something...on higher dpi works ok i guess couse you can go to the 0 if you need too...
The reason I'm not moving up to higher dpi values from my 400 is because my edpi feels the same as the standard windows cursor speed (which is 6). Therefore, if I increase dpi, my cursor will fly very quickly, and slowing it down through the mouse parameters in windows will add mouse acceleration (you can check it by yourself by using Mouse Movement Recorder app), so I do not recommend sacrificing the lack of acceleration for the sake of a couple of milliseconds of Input-lag. Display scaling in windows settings also adds mouse acceleration, so keep it 100%.
truly appreciate your hardwork, i really learned something new and really valuable today
Curious how this would work with something like RawAccel.
yes
Damn Yesterday I was thinking does dpi makes a difference in latency and I saw you're Razer Viper 8K Video and what I Saw is the higher DPI you go up until 3200 the lower the delay gets, but I watched this video and now I play at 1600 dpi instead of 400 dpi cause all the pro's made it 400 I copied but thank you Battle(non)sense for making me change my mind, EDIT: btw I use very low sens at 2000 edpi and moving my mouse like a turtle that's why I changed it
He didn't really come to the conclusion that higher DPI = better. He specifically states so in the video.
Only a single mouse was tested and other potential variables need to be considered. I've watched Logitech engineers explain how their sensor technology works in their top end mice and DPI should not impact input latency, only how fast the mouse moves.
Why not just use 800? 2 miliseconds difference is hardly noteworthy.
Well He tested the razer viper 8k and that's my mouse, and tbh I really don't care about how minor is the difference in latency if I get it lower than its good for me and I'm playing with a comfortable 1600 DPI and he stated to use what ever dpi you use and I use very low sens and move my mouse very slow so that's why I made the Dpi Higher and it feels for some reason smooth and no it wasn't pixel skipping .
Wow, great information, man! Thanks for your time! Great job :D
Hey Chris great video I would’ve love to see the test at 500 Hz considering that polling rate is much more consistent among majority of 1000 hz mice
500hz will be much more delayed than 1000
@@ULouOW that is actually not true
@Alex.UA6 Yea, not necessarily more delayed, but just generally bad. nobody would ever deliberately decide to use 500HZ over 1000HZ. I can see people deciding to use 1000HZ over 2K of 4K because they got used to 1K, but generally most inputs from a 500HZ mouse will be more delayed than a 1000HZ one
it depend on the game tbh for example r6 is coded for 128hz mouse polling rate so if you use 1000hz there you nerf yourself. apex legends for example support max 500hz (mby that changed i talk about like a year ago i didnt play r6 and apex since) so better use 500 on apex and most game tbh counter strike does support very well high mouse polling rate so its fine to use 1000hz + there same for valorant and im not sure but i think call of duty also support it very well.
Great video. I’d like to see a video about changing the in-OS Windows sensitivity and how it affects games and input lag.
Historically, adjusting the in-OS Windows mouse sensitivity from its default position produces major mouse inaccuracies, which can lead to your games feeling all wrong. It is reminiscent to when you have the “Enhance pointer precision” checkbox set on ON. (Which you should also never do.) There is a lot of research out there about it that you can Google for anyone curious.
Most games nowadays use raw input from the mouse though, so that _shouldn't_ be a factor. Unless you're playing an older game of course. Completely agree that it could be a nice video to see though, just get a definitive answer once and for all.
@jparkerwillis I’d also like to know if the settings are different if you’re using the new Windows 10 sensitivity slider or the classic method inside the Control Panel.
Generally speaking the windows mouse settings do not affect games as these use raw input.
@@Plazmunky It's the new one that matters in Windows 10, not sure why everyone always talks about it like there's just 11 steps. The "classic" steps just correlate to _1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20_ on the new slider - yet all of those on the new one do affect cursor movement. If you set it to 19 for example, instead of 20 there is a difference 5% in speed.
@@BattleNonSense hi there, I'm curious about using macro software like X-Mouse button control will add some input lag, can you test it?
for some reason many gamers use that software to change or create macro on their mouse like burst click or like auto reload when clicking button
I think this makes logical sense due to a lower DPI value only detecting movement after a larger physical distance on your mousepad. This will mean the first input is naturally going to be delayed, however this is the very reason many pro gamers will choose to use 400 DPI, because it detects only significant inputs and will not move your crosshair held on a pixel with a shaky hand for instance. As seen by Battle(non)sense's test with flick shots however, it does not have an effect on the latency of the mouse.
This is exactly why I use 450DPI (used 400 @ 1080p, went to 450 when I upgraded to 1440p). I tried 800 and it's not steady enough, picks up too many micro movements.
Which is why most CSGO players do 400dpi. U need pixel accuracy and ur hand will always have microshakes. We are not robots
@@chy.0190 If you use a low sens you don't get pixel skipping. It is a preference thing, not a legacy thing.
@@chy.0190 No, csgo works really well on 400 and pros will usually play 400 or 800 because it is ideal for stability and precision.
Only reason I ever left 400 is orher games not doing well on it, but csgo worked just fine.
@@badnewsbruner too true. Anything above 800 is for CQB
800 DPI master race
600 DPI Immortal Race
400 DPI god race
200 dpi devil race
1100 dpi gang.
The reason people use lower dpi is for accuracy and not latency. Latency seems barely different on 800 vs 1600 so perhaps 800 is the best of both worlds if latency really is something you thinks limits you.
what accuracy, it is greater with higher dpi
@@riba2233 you introduce more "noise" into your movements with high dpi, which can negatively affect your accuracy, especially when tracking
@@Zalazaar yes and no but I see your point
250dpi, 250hz polling rate, 250hz monitor, 250hz keyboard, i cap 250fps in game setting on 1024x768 black bars still managed to go radiant
The fact that you don't have a million subscribers is truly insane.
i assume the "input lag" is the time between the start of the movement and the first registered "pixel" or "dot" of the sensor. thats probably why the faster solenoid setting reduced the latency in lower dpi setting, because the first pixel would be registered by the sensor earlier
This should be updated since higher polling rates are now more widely used.
While testing the latency seems useful on the face of it, there's a lot of information missing that would make this test actually useful in real life. First, mouse movement to cursor fidelity at each DPI setting in addition to testing for input lag. Second: testing across multiple mice used in the esports space, from multiple additional brands including (but not limited to) Logitech, HyperX, and Zowie. Third: test how much the proprietary software adds to possible latency (and movement fidelity) by turning it off (which in many cases forces the mouse to a default dpi setting) and adjusting the operating system mouse sensitivity instead. Such a video would be AMAZING.
true, but this dude already puts in so much effort into his videos, it would be insanity to go so much further and actually make these experiments be fully applicable in real-life applications. i'd love to see it, you would love to see it, everyone would love to see it, but i think he'd need a friend or someone to help him with the boring and time-consuming parts.
it's sad, but at least we have SOME data which we can apply, and hope it has a positive impact on our latency. i love videos like these because i'm really concerned with the details of my system, even though i'm not yet able to play games professionally. so at least we can find some minimal use from these experiments of his, not all of the effort is going to waste.
the main issue is as you said, a lot of missing info. but that does not necessarily mean we can't use these graphs to adjust our system. for instance, me using the razer viper 8k, a DPI of 1600 is going to be objectively the best (check out his other video if you want) no matter if other factors also increase the latency, because afterall it's just going to be simple addition/subtraction, i.e. if an application increases latency, that latency is very unlikely to directly impact how much latency a low DPI induces for instance, instead, their 'scope' is more likely to be separately/individually influencing latency.
albeit not impossible, the results should be predictable is what i'm saying, however we have no way to confirm that or know exactly how other factors influence things. and just doing the minimal amount of work to prove this would still be a lot of work.
Very interesting. I have for a long time used high dpi, with in game devider (0.01 - 0.99) as I belived I felt more connected to the game (1800). Then for windows desktop stuff I just used a differnt profile on the mouse.
In Counterstrike we compare sensivity in eDPI which is calculated by multiplying DPI with your sensivity. So If you have a DPI about 800 and a ingame sensivity about 1 but want a smoother Mouse with the same sensivity you need to Set your DPI to 1600 and your ingame sensivity to 0.5. Or 400 DPI and Ingamesense 2 for a more steady but Not so smooth sensivity. Very simple
Average person uses 1000 dpi, so is it better to increase dpi to 3000 and change sensitivity in game to 0,05? How does it work?
Did you change the Sensitivity ingame to travel the same distance with different DPI? I think this way you tested, in the first case, 100 dpi will travel a little distance, and the 1600+ will travel so much faster, thats why the 1600+ had less input lag. So changing the DPI will make no difference, just change the velocity will. I think the correct way to test will be travel the same distance (like 30cm) with different DPI/Sensitivity values, to see if the DPI alone will change the Input lag.
Yea, I was wondering the same. Possibly the LDAT software is looking at some minimum delta of movement per frame, and at higher dpi you are more likely to trigger that
@@StardidiMarcelis yea, that's what I thought
I did the same test and compensated the sensitivity to match my old one went from 800 to 1600 but no way to actually measure it feels better tho I don't know maybe just placebo effect.
Good point. Most gamers probably have a pretty tight range of speed at which they're comfortable, so the whole "does more dpi reduce latency" thing only becomes interesting when you want to keep your comfortable, trained speed, but wonder if more or less dpi is better.
If you do your 30cm/360°, you want to keep it.
He tested for intial movement, you're goofy
I think it's more to do with you have to move your mouse further to register a change on lower dpi. This being said 1600 still feels more responsive than 400 and because it's smoother, it's easier to track targets even during a flick while at 400 I can't track the image at all.
Thank you. This was very helpful and informative
i just came see this and try it out right away. switching from 800 to 1600 dpi for some reason feels insanely good. tracking in apex feels 100% so much better!
I was thinking the same thing. I’ve always been at 800 and never changed it before because I change my in game sens accordingly. I see this comment is a month old, are you still on 1600 and do you enjoy it?
@@Sandzzy i'm still at 1600 dpi rn and i do really enjoy it! i change my windows mouse cursos speed setting to 5 instead of 6 because its too fast if i just browsing in general.
Im using 450 dpi gonna try 1600 dpi tomorrow
Another comment on this, Im curentlly using the Razer Death Adder V2 Mini, this is an equivalent of the Razer Viper Mini, just a different shape.
If you use a higher DPI, from what i tried using 5000 DPI, the sensor will be inaccurate, it will detect whatever it is on your mousepad that "isn't" your mousepad, Dirt, sweat, or whatever alike, and it moves my mouse by itself,
I tested by moving the mouse diagonally top right and then bottom left, a really fast motion, and eventually, if i start at the center of the screen, the mouse will go all the way to the right, sometimes to the bottom right and sometimes to the top right.
I've then changed my DPI to 400, and the same problem that was before was now fixed. This just shows to me at least, that higher DPI results in inaccurate sensor tracking, not the sensor's fault in a way, but it is that it is "too good" that it even detects the small hair that was left off of my dog after petting it, and then onto my mousepad, it detects the sweat and whatever dust is on it, i've even cleaned the mousepad, and the higher DPI still had the same problems, By cleaning it, i've used a soft mat, i wet it with a little ammount of small water on the edge of the soft mat, then i gradually cleaned the mousepad with a gradient like motion, top right to bottom left and so on / diagonally, i've cleaned it perfectly to the point i can't see jack s*it of any hair, and it looks really f'kn clean, i've then used a dry mat and cleaned the mousepad again, and so on.
Higher DPI doesn't help, it is just an illusion, i hope one day someone will see this comment and actually prove this, because i can't, i've already made a comment about this, in this same youtube video in the comment section somewhere, and i stand by everything i said, low DPI = better, and higher dpi = inaccurate, just an illusion when it comes to less input lag due to the sensor capturing the images faster, only results in less pixel skipping.
Now if only more games would properly support very low sensitivity settings, so I can rock high dpi everywhere :D
Yeah I hate it when games dont do that. WHY DO DEVS STILL MAKE SLIDERS WITHOUT NUMBERS.
Try RawAccel
I would prefer it if, instead of a slider, I could actually type out a specific sensitivity to 3 decimal places of precision. The relationship between DPI and sens is pretty exponential and shooting for high DPI really requires more precision on the sensitivity scale.
@@Zoddom to trigger autistic guys like me
@@Goodmanperson55 that entirely depends on the engine and the scale of the sensitivity modifier.
thank you for all the work you do, mate
You actually did it lol. :D
In my setup, frame rate would still matter far more than mouse dpi (mine is 400). My 6700k is falling behind, it seemingly can't keep up with newer games like BFV and is probably bottlenecking the system.
Can you give a reason as to why this is?
Taking the dpi value literally as "dots per inch", do you have to displace the first row of dots for the mouse and system to discover the movement?
This would explain why faster moving speeds show less dependence on the dpi value, because the faster you get the minor is the different between how long it takes you to cover the first inches of dots NOMATTER how far they are apart?
For slower moving speeds, it takes you longer to cover the first row of dots, and for different dpi values, they are spread apart further. Hence the higher influence of the dpi value on the system latency for slow speeds?
It would be great to have an explanation next to your testing :)
Anyway, as always, great video!
Calling it input lag is a rather poor choice of words, it's not like a signal takes more time to reach its destination but rather there are fewer updates in a given time. He should have made it more clear that it's behaving closer to how polling rate affects input lag which is in the end the amount of information in a given time period.
please make a video about the accuracy. it's still a hot topic what's best, like 400dpi @ 2 sensitivity vs. 800dpi @ 1 sensitivity.
Basically DPI can be viewed as a measurement update frequency per inch. The higher the DPI the sooner the first measuremnt gets sent when the mouse moves. Which results in lowering the input lag in effect. But we can also increase the physical movement speed of the mouse movement to get the measurement sent earlier when we have low DPI which also lowers the input lag. At certain movement speeds we reach a cap on input lag irrelevant of the DPI.
Question:
When at a lower DPI (like 100) it takes a longer distance of travel for the mouse before it sends another signal. A longer travel does not mean more input lag, it means more movement of the mouse before it sends more signals to the pc.
Was this considered when making the test?
I dont know as much about latency as you do, so correct me if im wrong.
At the slow speed (10mm, 100ms) it should only take 2.5ms to move between DPI points at 100dpi. Maybe the acceleration delay, from stationary to full speed, is affecting it. It could be mouse smoothing built into the firmware.
I put in the same question (he replied to my comment). It wasn't apparently.
so basically what i took away from this was; low sens, high dpi
high sens, low dpi
but depending on what speed youre moving your mouse at neither matters that much. there’s also ig taking into account what kind aimer you are as well as depending on game(s) you play. in a precision FPS shooter like CS or Val for example, if you’re a smooth aimer, it’d be better to play low sens high dpi since most of the time you’ll be trying to achieve the most consistency in accuracy, and obviously from a logical standpoint the vice versa would apply for aimers that like to be more flicky. if you want to achieve the best of both worlds per say then i guess it would be best to go with 800 dpi and whatever you would consider a medium sens. but really at the end of the day its just personal preference. if you read this, ty and have a good one :)
I know is not much, but I always like and watch your videos to the end. Your analysis and test methodology needs more recognition
I like to crank the DPI and lower the sensitivity in game to what feels good. Seems to get a much smoother feel. Basically same idea as a higher resolution making a smoother image all other things being equal.
Great video as always. I wish all games handled mouse sensitivity like Overwatch does where you can manually put it in down to the decimals.
Agreed.
in some games though you can do it even if the ingame settings won’t allow it. You just have to tinker with game files. In r6s, you have to open some ini file. It’s not as intuitive but that’s just how it is. It differs for every game.
Just run something that feels comfortable, you don't need every game to be exactly the same
This is just a great channel. I have never seen any other tech / game channel that put so many good ideas and effort into so many great technical and yet daily occurring topics.
Keep it up 👍
Only reason im not on a higher dpi and a lower in game sens is because of looting, when im looting on like 1600 dpi my cursor is just going crazy
coming back to this video after a year i realise that anything above 800dpi even while having the same edpi makes my aim way too shaky
I always do the same. 1000dpi, 1000hz, Win slider on half, the rest is game by game.
I play fortnite so I need low input delay when I place my builds so good stuff bro keep it up the good content.
A bit of math analysis:
- Your graph Y coordinate (time im ms) have 11 sections of 5 ms each. As every section is equal, that Y coordinate is linear plotted.
- Your graph X coordinate (DPI) has 8 sections, with unequal sizes. The size of each section increases in a power of two (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ...). That way, the X coordinate is not plotted in a linear way, but in a square law way. That's why the graph data follows an inverse square law curve, because the data itself is linear, but when plotted on a square law graph, will appear non linear. For visualization purposes, that's the best way (the way you did).
I'm not criticizing nor questioning the way you did, just adding information in case someone find it to be interesting.
I used to use 400DPI years ago when i first built my own gaming pc. So one day i thought to myself "Just bump it all the way up to 1600DPI" IMO it did feel slightly smoother but I'm not too sure if it was my brain telling me it's smoother 😅 Now the only problem i have with higher DPI is if my in game sensitivity is too high and i go to turn it down a little bit more i can't 😔 Because I've already turned it down to the lowest it will go 😔 I hope all of this makes sense 😅 Now I'm stuck on whether or not to stick with 1600DPI, or go down to 800DPI.
The reason low dpi causes higher delay is simple: 100 dpi is doing 100 samples/inch, 1600dpi is doing 1600 samples/inch.
if you move with 1inch/second speed for 1 inch distance:
100dpi = 100 sample per second = 10ms delay between 2 sample
1600dpi = 0.625ms/sample = 0.625ms delay between samples
after 1600 the diminishing return kicks in hard and the difference is barely noticeable even on slowly moving mouse.
if you move the mouse fast, lets say 10inch/second speed for 1 inch distance:
100dpi = 1000sample/second = 1ms delay
1600dpi = 16000sample/second = 0.0625ms delay
That is why there is barely any difference for fast movements.
Also there can be differences above these for each mouse because they might process the DPI data differently before sending it.
• I think this whole idea of higher DPI reducing input lag is like a trick of the mind. It might seem like it's reducing input lag because, in tests, the sensor takes more snapshots at higher DPI. But it doesn't really make sense that it would lower input lag.
• I mean, if you move the mouse super fast, you can hardly see any difference, which makes me think it's just an illusion. It doesn't actually reduce input lag; it just decreases pixel skipping.
• I believe there's a better way to test this. In a test, use the same mouse at a high DPI and a low DPI. For example, set the first test to 400 DPI with 1.0 sensitivity in a game like CS:GO. Move the mouse from right to left and see where you stop in the game. Then switch to 4000 DPI, which is ten times higher. To match the same sensitivity in the game, you'd set it to 0.1 sensitivity. It should feel the same but with less pixel skipping and more movement captured. Do the same thing, move the mouse from left to right, capture it, and see where you stop in the game.
• Now, use a high-speed camera to record the footage from both tests, one with 400 DPI and one with 4000 DPI. If higher DPI truly meant lower input lag, you'd see a significant difference in the images, with 4000 DPI being much faster. But in reality, it's likely that they look almost the same.
• I'd really like to see more tests like this to prove whether or not higher DPI actually reduces input lag. In my opinion, it's not an advantage, and it might even be worse due to the inconsistency caused by capturing so much more motion.
This video explains why you should set the higher dpi that your sensor supports (e.g.: 32000dpi) and the you need to multiply by ingane sensitivity (0.0375) obtaining an awesome 1200.
Dude, you deserve way more subs. Thanks for the effort you put in, it's appreciated
edit: Ive just seen this vid pop up in my suggestions and realized that its probably misleading and pointless? I usually like Battlenonsense, but Im pretty sure he completely misinterpretes the data here. This "response time" isnt input lag, at all. Think about it, its the delay till the mouse moves a pixel. What this really shows is that, if moving your mouse at the same speed, you need longer to move a distance with low DPI (=lower sensitivity). Which isnt just not a problem, but literally the point of lower sense. You need to move further, so its easier to be accurate. [/edit]
How strange, this throws up more questions than it answers tbh, Id like to see more^^
At least theres hardly any difference between 800 and 3200. So Im probably on the safe side, using 800.
Same, 800 crew.
I also use 800, noice
About accuracy and DPI: If you can move your in-game crosshair 1 pixel at a time, increasing DPI and lowering in-game (and Windows') sensitivity to compensate won't make a difference. Increasing in-game sensitivity above a certain point will make your crosshair skip pixels though. In the game I tested (Destiny 2 at 1080p) even the default caused this (10 Sensitivity and 10 ADS Multiplier).
I'm enjoying 3200 dpi at 4K polling. Much more responsive than the 800. Just divided by 3 on the windows and game settings, matches perfectly.
I'm just so used to this now, and it feels like it should in games.
I always wondered this.
Saw this so moved mine from 800 with high windows speed. To high DPS and lower speed.
Found a WEIRD thing with some games :D With top down iso games, where you use wheel/middle mouse and drag to rotate the camera, it treats it with full speed! Ignoring the windows speed haha it just is raw DPI value, i never knew that!
I was also hoping to see testing for DPI changes vs in-game sensitivity as well. I think I set and forgot my mouse at around 1200 dpi and adjust sensitive per game to what feels right. I have a small space for the mouse, and use wrist movents usually, with a little bit of arm room.
The same thing applies. All ingame sensitivity setting affects is how much your camera rotates per pixel traveled. Meaning it depends on your DPI. If your DPI is 1000, your camera will make 1000 movements per inch the mouse travels. If your DPI is 10000, your camera will make 10000 movements per inch the mouse travels. Lower the sensitivity accordingly to make up for this
You must be not that good at fps games then💀
@@bigbob5103 Pretty old comment but the only FPS games I remember playing the most was the Halo series and that was on console. I dont have much interest in FPS most games in general, not the multiplayer ones anyway.
@@Vaxtin oh okay that makes sense then😭😭😭 I would get so triggered if there was a slight difference between my sens in each competitive shooter I play
Long-story short, use higher DPI and lower the in-game sensitivity to make up for it, then after that get a smooth mousepad, trust me it makes all the difference, maybe the mousepad even more.
I always understood that setting the Windows setting to anything other than the default 6/11 would mean you lose a 1:1 relationship between physical mouse movement and how the input is understood by the computer, e.g. skipped pixels for setting higher values. Is that still the case?
Yes, because it works more like the sensitivity slider in games, as in its a modifier AFTER the mouses DPI.
4/11 translates to 1/2nd and 3/11 translates to 1/4th. You do keep your 1:1 relationship. But like if you are used to 800 dpi and you go to 1600 dpi for the lesser input lagg but want to remain your 800 dpi mouse feel on desktop.
Then you change dpi to 1600 and your windows cursor speed to 4/11
Games ignore the windows setting
@ Not all games do.
@@nikidino8 pretty much all games that matter have raw input
Should compare with different dpi, and similar sensitivity
The amount of effort put into this video is insane to me
1600 seems to be the optimal choice IMO. Love your videos, keep up the great testing!
Highest DPI is the optimal choice.
@@SimoneBellomonte 1600 is the highest you'll get any difference on with a 1000hz mouse, highest DPI would be terrible for normal PC usage and for setting sensitivities in game
Maybe mice with lower max DPI on their sensors generally have less input lag than using the same DPI on a mouse with a higher max DPI. So a Viper Mini with 8k max DPI using 1000 DPI has less latency than a Deathadder v2 with 20k max DPI using 1000 DPI because of how high/low the DPI is currently set relative to the maximum DPI possible.
🙌🙌🙌
yeah but in the end its still 1000 dpi so its gonna be the same thing
I bet if we took a poll it would show the majority of "resting" DPI is around 1600, in gaming especially FPS I have a 5 stage range I bounce between from 900, 1300, 1600, 1800, 2300.
Been using 1600 this entire time, good to know I haven't been handicapping myself by using my preferred sensitivity
What you should also keep in mind is your mouse sensor's limits. For example my Razer Deathadder Elite has a maximum DPI value of 16000 but after 1900 DPI it starts to use smoothing which increases input lag. At higher steps is smoothes even more increasing the overall latency so I have to use my mouse at 1800 DPI to avoid this and have the lowest possible input lag.
Fun fact - 1800 DPI was the original Deathadders DPI.
I loved it.
No DA V2 Pro Wireless with 800/1800/2300 (Warzone/raraly/near always)
Is this the same for razer death adder v2 wired ? Should I use 1600?
@@haven252 it uses a different sensor, you need to check reviews and tests, but around 1600 should be good sensitivity/input lag combination.
I used to enjoy 400dpi at sens 2 or 3 on most fps games
and 2 - 3 months ago I switched to 1600 dpi at sens 1
feels better tracking
i switched from 800 to 1600 and it feels way better in csgo, i cant go back to 800
@@bo0t3r29 i havent gone back to anyless than 1600 dpi since i made my switch. especially now that i been using the superlight. probably if i go lower than sens 1 now. lol.
6:15 or sometimes u can edit the configuration file for the game and set it to something lower than whats possible ingame
And might even have more digits to work with. Like when the game only offers two in the UI, but the config file supports 8, so you can have your perfect 1.23624 sens.
WOW!! Thank you, didnt expect that!
As a 400 dpi player i am now thinking going to 800 and reducing in game sense
try it.
It's easy. I went 400 to 1600 and changed in game sens as you said.
@@gunning4uuuu for example
16 sens and 400 dpi equals to
4 sens and 1600 dpi
Thats what i did from 400 dpi to 1200 dpi and the delay and tracking was better. I up my mouse dpi and lower my windows and ingame sens and its like a free upgrade from 125hz to 1k polling rate. It really detects micro movement which is higher polling rate mouse offers
Currently im running 400 dpi, 13 ingame.
So if I change to 800 dpi, the ingame sense is equal to 6.5?
Just to be sure :)
Been thinking about this, When I increase my DPI to 1000 from 800 (adjusting in game sense to account for eDPI)
I feel like it is a bit to responsive with over shooting etc, so maybe I should be looking at a slight reduction in game sens rather than the standard eDPI calculation. :thinking:
Great video, my main gripe is you recommend adjusting the Windows sensitivity at the end. Everything I have read is to NEVER ever ever adjust that to anything other than 6/11 as it introduces imperfect mouse tracking.
The 6/11 info is possibly outdated by many many years. I believe issues are supposed to arise going over 6, not under. Plus, most games use Raw Input, ignoring the Windows slider anyway.
@@paft the raw input I agree with, do you have any further information on the 6/11 sensitivity not introducing pixel skipping anymore?
@@ChrisGarcia683 I edited my post a little. It's 4am...i don't have any info off the to top of my head, but will reply when I do and remember . I've personally never needed to adjust it, buts there's MarkC reg tweaks for that. Or Raw Accel for the sens option.
If you disable EPP and use the reg fix, the values below 6/11 are pretty much a linear scale. Going down to 5/11 gives you 75%, 4/11 gives 50% and below that it halves the speed with each step.
Who else is using raw accel? I use this program for 8 months now and I'm really impressed with how it change the aming style. the program is based on linear mouse acceleration. It goes slow when you are moving slow but it encrease the sensitivity when you flick. So I have learned how to use it pretty well and now I can have both low and high sensitivity based on how I'm playing. it is surpriseling esay to master and I don't have any problem when I have to be precise for getting headshots.
consistently dropping groundbreaking content
The methodology here is really great
OMEGALUL
this video is very misleading. while everything said and shown is technically correct, it is presented in a way that might cause viewers to draw the wrong conclusion. here's a breakdown of what causes the additional latency at low dpi and movement speed:
dpi = dots per inch, or in other words, how many "dots" (an arbitrary unit) the cursor moves if you move the mouse 1 inch. the ratio at which the dots are converted into pixels of cursor movement or degrees of camera rotation doesnt matter as LDAT reacts to raw input directly. 1 inch = 254mm, which means at 100dpi we need to move the mouse 2,54mm to make the mouse register a movement of 1 dot (there are no partial dots)
the machine moves the mouse (or the underlying surface, doesnt matter) 10mm in 99ms. in other words, 1 millimeter movement takes 9.9ms, so in order to move the mouse enough to reach the threshhold of 1 dot (at 100dpi) your machine takes a little over 25ms. this time decreases as we increase dpi or movement speed, since the threshhold is reached faster, until it becomes insignificantly small. this causes the additional delay your measurement at low dpi + low speed shows and explains why the difference between low and high dpi in the second run is much smaller.
the key point that this video fails to mention is that in practice, playing at lower dpi also means moving the mouse more, as the distance you effectively want the cursor (or camera) to travel stays the same no matter what dpi you play at, which nullifies this effect. thus, a video title like "50% less input lag" is very misleading (again, not misinforming, just misleading) as it only applies to technical benchsmarks such as the one in this video and not actual gameplay scenarios
you should make a video
you're totally right, It is flawed, I can't find a single reason as to why he published it.
@@wertyuiopasd6281 i can. paid by higher dpi gaming brand mouse marketers. "you need 8000hz polling rates and 20000 dpis and.."
btw...
if you get a razer 8k viper...
it still sends the signal at 8k frequency no matter which actual polling rate you choose for operations.
I feel we are missing an insight here?
If we imagine that DPI is the amount of squares on a chessboard, and we use that chessboard as a mouse mat. Each square is a signal of movement from the mouse.
So the higher DPI, the more squares on the chessboard.
If we now drag our mouse across the chessboard - the smaller the squares, the faster the initial response of movement would be.
But would higher DPI really reach its target faster?
Switched my dpi from 400 to 800 and halved my sensitivity in game, changed it from 10 to 7 for desktop mouse settings, a little bit different but wont be difficult to get used to. Definitely notice a slight improvement in input, thanks for the info!
you HAVE to set your windows mouse sens to 6/11 or it will have smoothing/acceleration. and uncheck the box that says "enhance pointer precision". if you dont do this you will never develop proper muscle memory
@@mtbSTL why does it have to be 6/11? Might sound dumb but if the game you're playing has raw input on, why does the windows pointer speed matter?
@@mewmore6147it doesnt
I would like to note that you can't have windows cursor speed presets like you can with DPI presets. So some games that use the cursor in game will have an uncomfortable speed if you use 2 different DPI for desktop and gaming.
Just get a bigger mousepad ;)
My "Sweet Spots" on my go to G502X are 1) 2000: (Normal PC use and some games) 2400 is my MMO setting for whatever reason it just feels good, and 2800 is the highest I go for FPS games or anything with "high sensitivity". this is on a 27inch panel.
It's because high dpi settings are more sensitive than low dpi. The sensor of mouse catches smaller movement of mouse at higher dpi. So as you can see in the video, mouse travel speed affected on initial delay difference between DPIs, But your total travel time to destination(flick time) will be same anyway.
Well i don't think this initial low delay provides any benefits.
Assuming your dpi is 1600 and in-game sense 0.25 in CSGO. Csgo's degree per pixel is 0.022 so your initial travel degree will be 0.022x0.25 = 0.0055.
Compared with 400dpi@1.0(same eDPI) your benefit is only under 0.011°. From over 0.011° to 0.022° scenario, 400dpi will be faster than 1600dpi because 400dpi will jump to 0.022° immediately while 1600dpi still traveling per 0.0055°.
Flicking in 0.011° faster but slower in 0.022° isnt meaningful.
Use whatever you want. 400dpi is also good option
You’re forgetting that with the same eDPI and high DPI equivalent you will also get significantly smoother motion while tracking because information is sent more often from the mouse as opposed to with low DPI where the game has a stronger multiplier for less data to achieve the same distance traveled. Alongside the input lag benefit, higher DPI is much more precise whether your flicking or tracking.
@@xzraiderzx308 Flicking is more consistent in lower DPI.
Lower DPI eliminates shakiness which is the biggest factor that messes up flicks.
Tracking is more consistent in higher DPI.