Damn man that’s amazing.. I’ve been following for a while now and I can’t express how much your videos mean to me. They not only show what time has created in reefing but evidence based research that expels myths and provides us with current knowledge. This for me is worth so much, thank you for what you do and I’m truly a fan of your videos.
X had the same thing Hi-Fi straighten I trades and had the best tank to anyone could have so it doesn't hurt your tank as long as you got a lot of water movement
Good work on the video. I think it is important to understand that each aquarium is different, with different equipment, different rock, different sediment, different livestock, different environment, different routine, different dosing etc. etc. etc.. What works on one may not work on another. The problem is that most try to simulate what others are doing with their tanks thinking they will have the same result. Some may, some may not. Sometimes the info we get from our own systems is simply anecdotal. The screwed part of this hobby is that you can never get experienced "reefers" to agree on anything in the hobby. I have heard so many differing opinions from experts on these subjects that it makes my head spin. One guy says this and the next says the opposite. And they all have nice tanks. How about we consider the following. Marine Biologists are in their infancy of understanding reefs. And that is in the ocean which does not present the same kinds of problems for a reef as trying to keep one in a glass box in our houses. So if the real experts with educational degrees in the subject hardly understand them, I doubt any TH-camr's who are so called experts are going to blow our minds with their research. Lastly, we need to stop comparing the ecosystem we are creating in our houses to the one that consists in the ocean. They are two different animals.
This is so true when I fought and fought and did everything in my power to try to get my nitrates and phosphates down I created 38 other problems LOL and I finally gave up I said I will let it run its course and my tanks never looked better I haven’t tested for nitrates and phosphates in six months I just do my automatic water changes feed the way I always feed and add my supplements you are a wise man and what you said is so true
Thank you for starting this discussion. Most of my confusion when I first started this hobby was why we were doing this? Many of our inhabitants thrive on low levels of these nutrients. I blamed myself for not getting it but your video summarizes it perfectly and turned my frustration in the hobby into relief that there is so much data to support my thoughts. Hopefully your post will redirect this conversation for newcomers to the hobby. Liked and Subscribed! Looking forward to more posts 👍🏻
Great video, backed by science, data and real life examples. I agree whole heartedly being in this hobby for over 28 years I've been there an experienced many of these myself.
I’ve learn this. 1) know your tank 2) keep things simple 3) consistency! Tanks really do mature, after that you got to really go crazy to mess things up. Awesome and interesting video!
I'm new to keeping a saltwater aquarium which is 3/1/2 months old now, and my phosphate levels are .34 but nitrates are way higher. I'm running a refugium with macro algae and a protein skimmer but besides the refugium I don't see any algae in the main display except for the glass. On I do have an urchin and a foxface rabbit fish too which helps to control any algae issues. Great information and thanks
There are so many other variables as well, lighting,ph, aeration, flow, alk cal,....although this is a very interesting video because of the fact that it states what most of us actually are seeing...higher nutrients allow for better coloration and growth...once u strip the water clean it becomes a major problem...I think every tank has its own sweet spot...it’s our job to almost find it if we want to be successful...great video backing up the information with real studies...
It has been 10 years that I had to shut down my tank (due to moving) but I had the same experience. No skimmer, just deep sand bed sump and lots of micro food feeding (including yeast) and my phosphate was extremely high. I never cared much, since my sps corals had been growing amazingly well for about 4 years. All other tank owners were always puzzled at the growths and size of the corals regarding my set up and the values - but hey, "Never touch a running system" I thought. ;)
Ai and Dawn to dusk chinese black box on 54 corner bow with deep sub straight and 2 sumps. 1st sump from main enters mangroves with fuji mud, for 4 months. Then becomes an expanding sub straight, per month adding a cup of mineral mud for 2 years, micro nutrients. Then cascading down to main sump which uses socks, heaters and protein skimmer, plus biopellet reactor, keep clean. return to main.
Outstanding video. Very informative, scientific explained in easy to understand language. So basically, in a mixed tank-fish and corals, a manageable yet stable level of nitrates say of .15ppm and minor levels of phosphate is fine! Thats very encouraging. Ill keep doing what Im doing!
Great video. The scientific evidence was inconclusive in addressing the diverse live stock including different kind of corals in our tanks. However these two videos could be food for thoughts for some of us in forming and arriving to more universal conclusions through more study, research and practical implementation of our findings. To address your question as of why algae wouldn't thrive in high nutrient environment I would like to point to redfiled ratio. Elevated levels of Nutrients doesn't necessary cause algae out-brake but going way out of the Redfield ratio is proven to cause algae such as dyno, green or cyano explosion. Redfield ratio: 106 carbon 16 Nitrogen 1 phosphates If these values are converted to the commonly used tests we use (Nitrate and Phosphate) then the the ratio is: 10.5 Nitrate to 1 phosphate
It would only make sense to have the nitrates and phosphates a bit higher then 0. When trying to grow plants or even get your lawn looking healthy, you dose with nutrients, so why wouldn't that hold true for a reef tank. Most of the corals derive their nutrients from the water and photosynthesis, so it makes sense to have those elements in the tank for them. Out in the wild, there will be spikes of all different types of chemicals and nutrients that are not controlled and corals and fish seem to thrive in those areas. I have been battling dino's myself and have done a lot of research on them. So many conflicting lines of information out there!! Thanks for this video. THIS makes sense!!
you are 100% correct! with 0 nitrates there are so many tank issues. i started dosing evs nitrates and BAM! COLOR EVERYWHERE! CHRISTMAS IS HERE FINALLY!!!
I have been in the saltwater hobby since 1986 just a few years back we used to always say keep your nitrates low phosphate low now to our surprise they say you should have a little bit of both in the tank the funny thing is I did unplug my skimmer for a few days because on my test I have zero phosphate and 0 nitrates I will start feeding my hundred gallon tank a little bit more and I unplugged the skimmer for a week the tanks have been up for a while I do not see any ill effects on my Coral at this time so we will see what happens great video by the way
Subbed, great content. I was wondering for quite some time looking at marine life on how smaller, potentially enclosed ecosystems work in general, and came to a similar conclusion, that algae growth is probably controlled by nature itself. Great to have reassurance that in fact theres no need to really bleach out the tank because you have inhabitants in it.
I run a mixed reef that I transition off of NoPox before adding a refugium which spiked my nutrients then quickly flat-lined them to virtually undetectable via Red Sea test kits. My Nitrates are now finally higher than my phosphates as I venture further into the SPS realm of the hobby. Thanks for posting the video!
I would agree I have had elevated nitrates and phosphates for so long I quit fighting it but I don't have algae I did have cyano. What was really odd was with these elevated levels my chaeto algae in my refugium would not grow. I think the levels have more of an effect on color. Great video, very informative.
Great video. Im in agreement with you. I believe keeping N + P low while your tank matures is important. I will help with the dinos and cyano. But a lot of things can factor on how your tank matures. Husbandry, Bio load, flow, lighting. Once the tank matures I have seen N + P don't affect corals as much. Im currently P: .46 ppm and N: 20 ppm. That's kinda high/dirty but the tanks never looked better.
Great video. Love to see a video from you on dosing. Complete guide on how to, like equipment, calculation, testing, etc. Just started following you, great channel. Keep up the great work.
Awesome video man! Great study. I like it when our paradigm is shifted a bit ;) So.. looking at your graph NO3/PO4 it seems ratio is 100/1. This is the ideal ratio as I've read. It is unbalance between the two that causes problems, as do drastic changes.. I too have Nitrate at 10 and phosphate at 0,08/0,1 and tank (with across) is doing great.
Wow! Ive been chasing numbers. Performing projects like chaeto, turf scrubber etc because of the community standards. I have a nano and a 65 gallon. Both under 6 months of age. Tested my nano last week and i had 17.1 nitrates and 1.1 phosphate so i did a two gallon change even tho my nano looked fine! This video changes the game! Great video!
Great video. Last year, after 'suffering' low macro nutrients I've found ripping phosphate out using kalkwasser, whilst simultaneously dosing low levels of PO4 via a pump keeps my 1000L SPS system at the 0.05-0.1 mg/l sweetspot. Coral growth and vitality never been better. Easy to make a stock solution using Potassium Phosphate. Nitrate has more slack and I just dose weekly to maintain 5+mg/l
i used to do something similar (i also dose kalkwasser) and dosed phosphrous, but since i stopped kalkwasser, my po4 has been pretty stable at 0.1 ppm; one interesting finding from the paper is that the authors found that 'natural' supplementation via fish poop was better than direct supplementation of N and P ... neat eh... perhaps there are other molecules in fish poop that enhance the effect of added N and P
You can have nitrates and phosphates in a tank. Just keep them stable below 20 and that’s good... just keep them stable like you would any other parameter... stability is key in reefs remember
Coincidentally, i've just recently setup my new redsea reefer peninsula 500L with an algae reactor and things seem to be going really well(i seeded the new tank with mature rock, sand, and canister biofilter from my old setup). I've now removed my old canister biofilter, skimmer, and filter socks, been very careful to remove all mechanical filtration and very limited water exchanges. Everything seems to be going great. Just got my first chaetomorpha harvest of 40grams / baseball size. New acropora frags seems to be going well and other corals looking good.
@@TheBioReef as of today phosphates are 0.25mg.L and nitrates are > 3mg.L I'm quite surprised I thought it was going to be much higher. I have an extremely large catalaphyllia so I guess it and the algae reactor are utilising all of the current nutrients....
Yep, so i just started water changes :O Nitrates were stable at 3mg.L but phosphates suddenly started to go up over about 12days. I don't know what caused this change in phosphates as i haven't changed anything in the system - eg not changed feeding regime etc.
Just linked this video in my last video on the subject of nutrients. Im not as articulate but I am also experimenting and finding the nutrients are the secret sauce. lol. Thanks for this awesome video.
Thanks for sharing that info. Probably most hobbyists wouldn't call your nutrient levels elevated. The Rich Ross reference you showed, that guy definitely runs high nutrients. My results basically agree with what you're saying in the video - I'm just too busy to monitor and manage N and P so they soar.
Hi Nancy - thanks for watching. I had the uv sterlizer on while i was battling dinos; but i took it off line about 6 to 8 month ago after i won the dino battle. essentially, i had a maxijet pump in the display that was feeding the sterilizer via silicone tubing with a a couple of PVC 90degree elbows; the water would then travel through the uv sterlizer and exit back to the tank via another set of silicone tubing and pvc elbows.
@@TheBioReef honestly all the mumbo jumbo about parameters about fowlr, reef tank, fish only confuses and scares folks from keeping marine tanks your video is best of all the videos i've seen. May be if you have time you can do about other parameters. That would be an absolute bible sort for beginners .👏👏👌👌
Good video! - I have high phosphates 2.0 yes thats 2 not .2 - My way to combat algae is I have a refugium with a Kessil H380 that outcompetes the display for algae. If I turn the refugium lights off for a week, I see algae starting to form.
Great video. I had my PO4 above 2.5 for over a month. At first the acros colored up a great deal but stopped growing. Then the skin looked a little bumpy like it wanted to grow but wasn't getting the skeleton growth to support it. Being somewhere in the middle(.04-.5) I would assume is the key. I have since lowered it under 0.1. I have also noticed that an established tank deals with high nutrients much better than a new tank started with dead rock. Add a piece of dead rock to the tank under light and watch it become an algae factory within weeks.
I was using nopox for a year, was great for the first 6 weeks, wiped all my phosphates a nitrates out but then I spent the rest of the years fighting dinos. I used dino x and blackout, dinos would go then 2 weeks to a month later they would be back. I stopped using no pox rigged up a refugium, which doesn't wipe nutrients out but definitely keeps my ph stable and the dinos disappeared.
You know this was very interesting..I had a Dino outbreak ... I was at zero nitrates and PO4 was at .02. I raised my nutrients and they went away...My tank looks more vibrant with high Nitrates 15 Ppm and Phosphates at .2 so you may be have a point. I have a refugium to help control algae and excess nutrients. How often do you do water changes and do you run a skimmer? Thanks for the info.
my phosphates shot right up at one point when i start overdosing amino acids. and i did saw lots of algae growth because i have a nano tank with no herbivores, but i noticed my leather coral size doubles in a month.
i have a 12gallon and the tanks always had like 20-40ppm nitrates and low phosphates, there is a reddish brown montipora plating type coral that has recently grown out of the side of the live rock, i dont dose the tank and just let it do its thing with water changes every 2-3 weeks atleast.
Great...Totally agree !!!! Enough clean up crews will definitely help. My sea cucumber & sea mouse eats green algae in my sand. I m so grateful for them. Only issue now i hv is Bubble algea.......my emerald crabs are not working. Is there any other clean up crew tat can help & yet reef safe ? Also i hv atapsia, butterfly will help but my corals will be eaten up. So any other solution ? Thanks Annie
thanks Annie. I've always heard that emrald crabs are good for bubble algae - perhaps consider adding a couple of more. Also, you may want to reduce feeding the tank a bit just to entice them to eat the bubble algae. Re. Aptasia - alas, i've never had it so not sure what the best way is. But i've hear that copperband butterfly fish do eat aptasia and are reef safe, but they are a bit of a risk, and often starve to death after the aptasia are gone
Yeah, I’ve experienced same thing when was fighting algae by lowering nutrients. Eventually I got the so low, undetectable, that even soft coral started bleaching. All these organisms do need nitrates and phosphates. And levels even like 50ppm NO3 and 1ppm PO are not going to kill your corals, they just can promote too much algae growth. In my case, though, I always have high nitrates and undetectable phosphates and cannot find the reason why it’s happening, especially because it’s a small 20g tank and all nutrient export I’m using currently is only water changes. Maybe the food matter too. Like, I never feed frozen food (afraid to pollute the water), only pellets.
you can try dosing phosphates to balance things out a bit. i also had undetectable p04. i dosed small volumes of potassium phosphates for a few month and now my tank is able to maintain 0.1 ppm P04 on its own
The benefit to frozen food is people feed less because they are bulky looking and largely made of water (like any animal), which means people are putting less organic matter into the tank. Pellets etc are very high calorie per gram and for the same volume, you'll be adding way more nutrients. Try frozen, it isnt the curse some people think it is.
Are the beneficial levels of nitrate and phosphate you measure, clearly understood to be truly dissolved , or could they actually be particulate? ( I imagine the condition of the nutrients might determine which organisms benefit most. )
I think the key you hit on was control of nuisance algae when nitrates and phosphates are feeding it. The two reasons make very much sense (enough leftover nutrients for the corals, plus controlling the competition for those nutrients) - it’s a very fine balance.... Haha, I’m starting to wonder if the question we reefers need to ask ourselves is, “WWMND?” What would Mother Nature do? 😁😁😁
I think that it would help at the beginning if you define what "high" is. Is high nitrate 5-10ppm? 10-20? 40ppm? Same with Phosphate, is 0.1ppm high? Is 0.2ppm high? Based on watching the video, you consider 10-20ppm Nitrate high, and 0.2-0.4ppm Phosphate high. I think that the paradigm is true, but the people warning you over "high nutrients" are thinking that high nitrate is 50+ and High Phosphate is 0.5ppm or more (tanks can handle high phosphate more gracefully in my experience, whereas high nitrates can be toxic). Successful reefs do not often have nitrates of 50ppm or phosphates of 0.4ppm. So I think that this video is awesome in sharing that aiming for zero's regarding nutrients is bad, but we certainly don't want people cranking their nitrates up to 50ppm and expecting success. Another big factor is how fast the nutrient levels change and their stability over time. I enjoyed the vid!
Yes, i know that my levels are not what many people would consider high. But, based on some advice, any detectable level of N and P is high. For example, RedSea recommends Nitrates to be 0.25-0.5 ppm and p04 0.01-0.02 ppm for a SPS dominant tank - my tank would be 'high' nutrients against that benchmark. Really, the video is about questioning the old school paradigm of trying to run ULN system
that paper puts alot into perspective. I myself have experienced the nutrient fever, constantly trying to keep them close to zero. I believe once they put the low nutrient theory out there it become profitable to monopolize on this and out came the mechanisms and snake oils. google any reef tank issue and products pop up to remedy it. the reefs are full of biological processes and so are aquariums. its all about bacteria and processes. I only have issues when I try to change something to meet my wants.
Hi Johny, i use Radions; have a look at a few recent vids on my channel to see how my lights are setup. That is a strawberry conch. Not sure how it really does with diatoms, but i always see it around cleaning the lower parts of my rock work
I never managed to get a reading above zero on phosphates although I feed heavilly. I thought my tests were bad. I have a mixed reef with a large number of anemones and I guess they are consuming all the phosphates available, I can't find any other explanation. I can't keep an acropora though, with alk at 10 and Ca at 430. I can't detect nitrates either.
“Low nutrient” objectives were created way back when we had no idea how to keep SPS alive. Commercial companies latched on as they can sell all kind of products for nutrient control… Glad to see more and more people realizing nutrients aren’t the enemy.
My tank had nitrates around 30-40 and my corals and anemone were doing so well! Lps we’re expanding so nicely and anemone was doing so well too, i decided to bring my nitrate down and guess what, im now on undetected nitrates and my corals aren’t opening as large and my anemone is losing its colour as if its bleaching. Doesnt open as big also. Used to open up to 6-7 inches but now only 3. My torches used to expand out like hugeee but now its only expanding a little like an inch from the head... damn my tank was doing so much better when i had more nitrates. No wonder the guy at the lfs told me to keep my nitrates at 20ppm for the anemone.
I had several sps and lps corals in a thriving well established 75 gal reef... a beautiful huuuge blue stag, several acros including a beautiful orange table, torches, hammers, finger (leather), star polyps, xenia frags etc... long story short I had an incident that made my standard of husbandry and frequency of water changes impossible for an extended period... Nitrates and phosphates shot through the roof... I faced my first crash... kind of... I lost a few fish, but I had a ridiculous bio-load at the time that compounded the lack of decent husbandry very quickly. BUT the star polyps and leather corals thrived so well in a higher nitrate/phosphate system that the colonies exploded and literally overgrew everything. I was not in a position to thin them out at the time. A few of my fish, namely my hippo and yellow tang, also did not mind the increased algae growth. Somehow at 80+ ppm nitrate my Rose bubble tip survived although it did split... I attribute that to the wonderful job my gold banded maroon clown does of nurturing the anemone. My dragon mandarin and the amphies and copepods also seemed relatively unaffected... it didnt look the best but I was shocked at how well most of the tank got along without me... that was years ago. My reef has since done very well with a reduced bio load and NO water changes... I run a sulphur denitrator, and some gfo in a reactor, a good skimmer, a dsb in the sump w some macro and high output led's, metric crap ton of live rock and all the little critters (which sadly were the first to go during the crash)... I try to keep nitrates between 5-10 ppm which can be tricky as the sulphur reactor does its job amazingly well once its seeded... I have to dose calc and a few other supplements occasionally but my pH remains stable (it seems through ANYTHING). I don't aim for undetectable, just stable. I absolutely believe what you're saying, although I'd emphasize that "high" for trate is 20-30ppm... 80+ppm isnt just high for nitrates... its eventually toxic to alot of reef livestock, and others, amazingly enough, thrive even there... it's all about balance once a tank is established imo. I can agree, through personal experience, that maintaining nutrients at relatively medial levels can actually benefit your reef a great deal... good husbandry, balance and stability are the name of the game... I love your videos man. Thank you for taking the time!
I am running a skimmerless 28 gallon nano tank with an auto water change system (DOS - Neptune Apex). At this point doing no nutrient testing. What are your thoughts 2 years later from this video.
When they did the test around nitrate and phosphate you just mentioned elevated levels. What does that actually correspond to in numbers. Did the study mention any actual levels? Thanks for the vid.
I must have missed something... from the graphs, doesn't it show that elevated PO4 showed increased calcification while elevated NO3 showed no change or even decreased calcification? Plus, our testings are showing available nutrients in the water while chemical reactions and uptake in coral/algae often occurs in close proximity... which clouds the issue but ultimately it might mean these organisms use what they need/when they need it as it's available...excess may be detrimental. Dunno. I do know that my tank has had algae blooms with or without testable nutrients as it seems to utilize many ways of growing.
Awesome video. Thank you for bringing science into our hobby :) I can only subscribe and like but your work is very much appreciated! One follow-up question: What does the "elevated levels of phosphate/nitrate" mean as the definition is used in the paper? What is the baseline/reference level to be able to put all this information into context? Thanks!!
Thanks! The paper summarized different studies that used different levels/amount of enrichment of N and P. So, this is not a useful paper from a sense of finding out the exact thresholds of chemical (i.e. ppm in your tank water). Nevertheless, the power of this sort of analysis comes from looking at effect sizes from multiple studies -> each study may have had some shortcomings and biases, but looking across 40 or 50 studies gives you a very good idea of what the 'big picture' looks like. here is the link for the table showing the different experiments and amounts of N + P representing the enriched condition www.esapubs.org/archive/ecol/E095/174/appendix-A.php
I've experienced the very same thing in my battle with dino's as well. My only struggle at the moment is trying to keep N03 and P04 from bottoming out in my tank. I dose both every other day, I've removed my skimmer, been leaving my filter sock in for 10 days (which I may remove altogether) and just today I've removed a pc of Marine Pure block from my sump. The only filtration I have left is my live rock, a filter sock and an algae scrubber which I may remove next. Everything you read is all about how to lower these bad elements and I agree with you 100%, my tanks never looked better since trying to keep these higher thank zero. My goal is N03 .5-1.0 and P04 around .02. For anyone with values of zero I think you're headed for trouble. My battle with dino's had me on the brink of giving up a 30 yr hobby and the answer was elevated levels of nitrate and phosphate. Thanks for sharing what seems to be a 180 on current trends and learned through experience.
Thanks for the feedback and it seems like we both shared a similar experience with dinos and high nutrients. regarding keeping nutrients up - i did rely on dosing phosphorous and nitrates to maintain levels, but by gradually beefing up my feeding schedule, i am finding that i can maintain stable levels of nutrients in my system without any additional dosing.
Interesting perspective. I am hopeful. The paper you cited from a respected publication is entitled "Are nutrients are bad" I have to ask what kind of language use is that?
Marlon's C I used to dose KNO3 potassium nitrate and seachem phosphorus; KNO3 can be purchased in many formats, including Bayer stump remover. If you going to dose, go slow so you don’t shock your system
Hey, I checked my EVS bottles, I didn’t see where the calcium had magnesium in it, recently I had to dose a bunch of magnesium, sorry to get off the subject, ur definitely on to something that I know, higher nitrates and phosphates grow my corals better and faster, ur 100% right!
I think the information gets lost in the community since many people are inputting their experiences. With this, we'll have seasoned reefers with 5, 10 even 20 year old systems. Then newer reefers That have been in the hobby for 5 years or so, but have tanks mature to 2 to 3 years. Higher nutrients and your corals will be happier, makes sense. But a lot in this hobby makes sense, and I keep finding more troubles it seems. I think control on a younger tank and slowing progress the levels as the tank matures. Like after 3 or so years of control. That seems to make sense. But, what did I just mention about sense?? God I love this hobby!!!
great video, i wouldnt call your params "high" though. spot on for a mix reef. high phosphates would be above .50 and high nitrates above 20ppm. IMO and not sure if you touched on this, but levels that high are sustainable as well if your alk is up. its been proven tanks will do well with high nitrates/phosphates if alkalinity is also high, and in the 9-12dkh range. if alk is low, nutrients need to be low too.
also mike paletta and sanjay who are often featured on american reefers channel run tanks that are consistent with what you're saying as theyve both said many times they have phosphates and nitrates and they have great systems with lots of healthy corals.
Yeah, I've been following both Mike and Sanjay's systems. I think the most illuminating thing about the new paper is that the science that was used to justify the ULS paradigm seems to have shifted. That is, the old paradigm is not supported by science as much as we believed.
@@TheBioReef agreed. this is all very interesting of relevent note, i take care of a system for a client who over feeds, and thats where my opinion of "high" nutrients comes from. the client over feeds. phosphates between .45-.55 and nitrates 20-22. fish thrive , a lot of coral does very well too. but once the tank started consuming alk and Ca more, cyano showed up in the sump. the nutrient levels didnt change when this happened, rather it happened when alk dropped from 8.5 dkh to 6.5 dkh within 7 days. i have finally got the client to agree to install a doser. with alk and calc back where theyre suppose to be, and stable - no more cyano issue.
Stability is the key, I do not do water changes on my tank. I will say I am heavy on my filtration. I run carbon, phosguard, biopellets, filter socks and skimmer but I do not to water changes but I dose Cal/Mag ALK as needed. I keep my nitrates on the 20 below range. I realized that every time I did water changes the problem would clear up and then it was back to where it was. At that point I said it's just a waste in time and money just later find out when I went to the local lfs to watch the own siphon the detritus into a filter and let the filtered water go back into the sump. I asked how often they did water changes and he replied by saying rarely ever unless in a emergency situation and as long as the filtration is on point everything will be fine.
@@kazasgeorge I don't but I'm currently doing more research in those types of elements. I am trying to keep everything as simple and as affordable as I can. The thing with this hobby that there is too much snake oil in it.
LoL I’ve been running my AIO with 40ppm Nitrates and 0.5 to 0.6 Phosphate for over 4 years. Key is stability, once your tank adapts to the parameters, it will slowly thrive. Problem is with new tanks and adding new frags.
Great video! I keep mostly LPS ... I had a sump but about 2yrs ago I started growing chaeto and my nitrates are down but corals stopped growing and alot of them calcified. Should I stop growing chaeto? Would appreciate your advice
I use a salifert po4 test kit and aslong as it is 0.1 to 0.25 Iam happy I keep my ph at 8.4 and dkh at 9.5 everything is good if I have my whites on too much he to some we algea on Sand but my cronches sort that out over night Iam mainly sps LP's worse thing you can get is a Hanna checker and start chasing stupid numbers if I get to 0.25 ppm po4 I won't feed corals till it lowers I run aquaforest np pro and probiotic s wich converts phosphates and nitrates into food for corals
My ribs never look so great since I've been carbonizing I think it's a good way to feed the squirrels and keep nutrients and check hopefully still working on it. Still working progress I mean.
my nitrate was above 100 and algae was killing corals. I did 0. Cut warm lights used bluish and less light 1. 10% water change from sand syphoning. 2. reduction of Bio-Load 2. U.V steriliser for 7 days 3. Vinegar dosing Tank is now stable and I cant see alagae. only little brown alagae and some very hard hair algae like hard green grass on rocks. now I got another shit of flatworms outbreak...I don't know what to do
i do water changes every week - about 15 L or 5 gallons; i use the cheap instant ocean salt. I am doing an experiment now on supplementing trace elements... will do a video on it in about a month
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Damn man that’s amazing.. I’ve been following for a while now and I can’t express how much your videos mean to me. They not only show what time has created in reefing but evidence based research that expels myths and provides us with current knowledge. This for me is worth so much, thank you for what you do and I’m truly a fan of your videos.
Thanks David
Well said David. I totally agree
I agree also David!
X had the same thing Hi-Fi straighten I trades and had the best tank to anyone could have so it doesn't hurt your tank as long as you got a lot of water movement
i agree, providing insight, input, research and forward progress. Automatic FIRST DOWN. !!
Good work on the video. I think it is important to understand that each aquarium is different, with different equipment, different rock, different sediment, different livestock, different environment, different routine, different dosing etc. etc. etc.. What works on one may not work on another. The problem is that most try to simulate what others are doing with their tanks thinking they will have the same result. Some may, some may not. Sometimes the info we get from our own systems is simply anecdotal.
The screwed part of this hobby is that you can never get experienced "reefers" to agree on anything in the hobby. I have heard so many differing opinions from experts on these subjects that it makes my head spin. One guy says this and the next says the opposite. And they all have nice tanks.
How about we consider the following. Marine Biologists are in their infancy of understanding reefs. And that is in the ocean which does not present the same kinds of problems for a reef as trying to keep one in a glass box in our houses. So if the real experts with educational degrees in the subject hardly understand them, I doubt any TH-camr's who are so called experts are going to blow our minds with their research.
Lastly, we need to stop comparing the ecosystem we are creating in our houses to the one that consists in the ocean. They are two different animals.
This is so true when I fought and fought and did everything in my power to try to get my nitrates and phosphates down I created 38 other problems LOL and I finally gave up I said I will let it run its course and my tanks never looked better I haven’t tested for nitrates and phosphates in six months I just do my automatic water changes feed the way I always feed and add my supplements you are a wise man and what you said is so true
Thank you for starting this discussion. Most of my confusion when I first started this hobby was why we were doing this? Many of our inhabitants thrive on low levels of these nutrients. I blamed myself for not getting it but your video summarizes it perfectly and turned my frustration in the hobby into relief that there is so much data to support my thoughts. Hopefully your post will redirect this conversation for newcomers to the hobby. Liked and Subscribed! Looking forward to more posts 👍🏻
Richard Bork thanks Richard!
Great video, backed by science, data and real life examples. I agree whole heartedly being in this hobby for over 28 years I've been there an experienced many of these myself.
thanks Ellery
I've seen many of your videos. I appreciate all the info you provide. Thank you for sharing your research
Gabes Reef Tampa thanks Gabe
I’ve learn this. 1) know your tank 2) keep things simple 3) consistency! Tanks really do mature, after that you got to really go crazy to mess things up. Awesome and interesting video!
Garrett Kennedy thanks
Really enjoying your channel with discussion of studies! Glad I stumbled across it.
Thanks Mr. E! If you enjoyed this video, please sub and share with your friends! Thanks!
Thanks for sharing!
This video is very well prepared and informative!
I'm new to keeping a saltwater aquarium which is 3/1/2 months old now, and my phosphate levels are .34 but nitrates are way higher. I'm running a refugium with macro algae and a protein skimmer but besides the refugium I don't see any algae in the main display except for the glass. On I do have an urchin and a foxface rabbit fish too which helps to control any algae issues.
Great information and thanks
This is some great info. Thanks for the In depth look and research.
my pleasure
Excellent presentation , well done !
my pleasure! thanks
There are so many other variables as well, lighting,ph, aeration, flow, alk cal,....although this is a very interesting video because of the fact that it states what most of us actually are seeing...higher nutrients allow for better coloration and growth...once u strip the water clean it becomes a major problem...I think every tank has its own sweet spot...it’s our job to almost find it if we want to be successful...great video backing up the information with real studies...
Excellent point Peter. i think the sweet spot is partly determined by the biodiversity in your tank and how it is able to consume nutrients and algae
It has been 10 years that I had to shut down my tank (due to moving) but I had the same experience. No skimmer, just deep sand bed sump and lots of micro food feeding (including yeast) and my phosphate was extremely high. I never cared much, since my sps corals had been growing amazingly well for about 4 years. All other tank owners were always puzzled at the growths and size of the corals regarding my set up and the values - but hey, "Never touch a running system" I thought. ;)
Ai and Dawn to dusk chinese black box on 54 corner bow with deep sub straight and 2 sumps. 1st sump from main enters mangroves with fuji mud, for 4 months. Then becomes an expanding sub straight, per month adding a cup of mineral mud for 2 years, micro nutrients. Then cascading down to main sump which uses socks, heaters and protein skimmer, plus biopellet reactor, keep clean. return to main.
Great vid! I'm still in the learning phase of things so this is much needed help. No I wont do drastic changes but will monitor close. Thanks
thanks!
Outstanding video. Very informative, scientific explained in easy to understand language. So basically, in a mixed tank-fish and corals, a manageable yet stable level of nitrates say of .15ppm and minor levels of phosphate is fine! Thats very encouraging. Ill keep doing what Im doing!
Kevin R. Thanks Kevin!
Great video. The scientific evidence was inconclusive in addressing the diverse live stock including different kind of corals in our tanks. However these two videos could be food for thoughts for some of us in forming and arriving to more universal conclusions through more study, research and practical implementation of our findings.
To address your question as of why algae wouldn't thrive in high nutrient environment I would like to point to redfiled ratio. Elevated levels of Nutrients doesn't necessary cause algae out-brake but going way out of the Redfield ratio is proven to cause algae such as dyno, green or cyano explosion.
Redfield ratio: 106 carbon 16 Nitrogen 1 phosphates
If these values are converted to the commonly used tests we use (Nitrate and Phosphate) then the the ratio is:
10.5 Nitrate to 1 phosphate
thanks for sharing your thoughts
A very interesting video which has given me reason to re-think some of my approaches. Thanks for sharing dude.
Cliffepoos thanks
It would only make sense to have the nitrates and phosphates a bit higher then 0. When trying to grow plants or even get your lawn looking healthy, you dose with nutrients, so why wouldn't that hold true for a reef tank. Most of the corals derive their nutrients from the water and photosynthesis, so it makes sense to have those elements in the tank for them. Out in the wild, there will be spikes of all different types of chemicals and nutrients that are not controlled and corals and fish seem to thrive in those areas. I have been battling dino's myself and have done a lot of research on them. So many conflicting lines of information out there!! Thanks for this video. THIS makes sense!!
Great video! keep it up! we need more guys like you in the saltwater hobby
thanks!
you are 100% correct! with 0 nitrates there are so many tank issues. i started dosing evs nitrates and BAM! COLOR EVERYWHERE! CHRISTMAS IS HERE FINALLY!!!
thanks for sharing your experiences
I have been in the saltwater hobby since 1986 just a few years back we used to always say keep your nitrates low phosphate low now to our surprise they say you should have a little bit of both in the tank the funny thing is I did unplug my skimmer for a few days because on my test I have zero phosphate and 0 nitrates I will start feeding my hundred gallon tank a little bit more and I unplugged the skimmer for a week the tanks have been up for a while I do not see any ill effects on my Coral at this time so we will see what happens great video by the way
Thanks and good luck.
This is really interesting. I am researching getting a saltwater tank and seeing this gave me lots to think about and more to look into lol
thanks Meagan
90% of your time will be spent researching and the other 10% scratching your head
Very well written Professor! I agree. I am noticing my dinos withering away with nutrients. And my montis have NEVER looked better!
Monti love those Nitrates and phosphates for sure
thanks Matyas!
Subbed, great content. I was wondering for quite some time looking at marine life on how smaller, potentially enclosed ecosystems work in general, and came to a similar conclusion, that algae growth is probably controlled by nature itself. Great to have reassurance that in fact theres no need to really bleach out the tank because you have inhabitants in it.
thanks Zoltan
I run a mixed reef that I transition off of NoPox before adding a refugium which spiked my nutrients then quickly flat-lined them to virtually undetectable via Red Sea test kits. My Nitrates are now finally higher than my phosphates as I venture further into the SPS realm of the hobby. Thanks for posting the video!
Nice video. My reef always has elevated Phosphate and Nitrates and is doing well :)
I would agree I have had elevated nitrates and phosphates for so long I quit fighting it but I don't have algae I did have cyano. What was really odd was with these elevated levels my chaeto algae in my refugium would not grow. I think the levels have more of an effect on color. Great video, very informative.
thanks!
I can't get cheato to grow no matter what my nutrient levels are.
Great video. Im in agreement with you. I believe keeping N + P low while your tank matures is important. I will help with the dinos and cyano. But a lot of things can factor on how your tank matures. Husbandry, Bio load, flow, lighting. Once the tank matures I have seen N + P don't affect corals as much. Im currently P: .46 ppm and N: 20 ppm. That's kinda high/dirty but the tanks never looked better.
How old is your tank. And when did you start allowing the nutrients to rise?
A lot of interesting information here. Thanks for sharing.
thanks!
Great video. Love to see a video from you on dosing. Complete guide on how to, like equipment, calculation, testing, etc. Just started following you, great channel. Keep up the great work.
Hi Tom. Thanks and will put a dosing vid on my to do list!
Awesome video man! Great study. I like it when our paradigm is shifted a bit ;)
So.. looking at your graph NO3/PO4 it seems ratio is 100/1. This is the ideal ratio as I've read. It is unbalance between the two that causes problems, as do drastic changes..
I too have Nitrate at 10 and phosphate at 0,08/0,1 and tank (with across) is doing great.
Thanks Steffan. If you enjoyed this video, please consider subscribing to the channel. Cheers
Wow! Ive been chasing numbers. Performing projects like chaeto, turf scrubber etc because of the community standards. I have a nano and a 65 gallon. Both under 6 months of age. Tested my nano last week and i had 17.1 nitrates and 1.1 phosphate so i did a two gallon change even tho my nano looked fine! This video changes the game! Great video!
Why even bother to do water changes if you got to much nuisance alage reduce the light
Very interesting and nicely explained, thanks!
thanks!
Great video. Last year, after 'suffering' low macro nutrients I've found ripping phosphate out using kalkwasser, whilst simultaneously dosing low levels of PO4 via a pump keeps my 1000L SPS system at the 0.05-0.1 mg/l sweetspot. Coral growth and vitality never been better. Easy to make a stock solution using Potassium Phosphate.
Nitrate has more slack and I just dose weekly to maintain 5+mg/l
i used to do something similar (i also dose kalkwasser) and dosed phosphrous, but since i stopped kalkwasser, my po4 has been pretty stable at 0.1 ppm; one interesting finding from the paper is that the authors found that 'natural' supplementation via fish poop was better than direct supplementation of N and P ... neat eh... perhaps there are other molecules in fish poop that enhance the effect of added N and P
You can have nitrates and phosphates in a tank. Just keep them stable below 20 and that’s good... just keep them stable like you would any other parameter... stability is key in reefs remember
Coincidentally, i've just recently setup my new redsea reefer peninsula 500L with an algae reactor and things seem to be going really well(i seeded the new tank with mature rock, sand, and canister biofilter from my old setup).
I've now removed my old canister biofilter, skimmer, and filter socks, been very careful to remove all mechanical filtration and very limited water exchanges. Everything seems to be going great. Just got my first chaetomorpha harvest of 40grams / baseball size. New acropora frags seems to be going well and other corals looking good.
sounds like a great setup - good luck!
@@TheBioReef as of today phosphates are 0.25mg.L and nitrates are > 3mg.L I'm quite surprised I thought it was going to be much higher. I have an extremely large catalaphyllia so I guess it and the algae reactor are utilising all of the current nutrients....
Yep, so i just started water changes :O Nitrates were stable at 3mg.L but phosphates suddenly started to go up over about 12days. I don't know what caused this change in phosphates as i haven't changed anything in the system - eg not changed feeding regime etc.
Just linked this video in my last video on the subject of nutrients. Im not as articulate but I am also experimenting and finding the nutrients are the secret sauce. lol. Thanks for this awesome video.
nice, thanks M!
Thanks for sharing that info. Probably most hobbyists wouldn't call your nutrient levels elevated. The Rich Ross reference you showed, that guy definitely runs high nutrients. My results basically agree with what you're saying in the video - I'm just too busy to monitor and manage N and P so they soar.
Jim Jam thanks for sharing
Great video. I noticed the US sterilizer on the overflow. Can you let me know how you have that set up?
Hi Nancy - thanks for watching. I had the uv sterlizer on while i was battling dinos; but i took it off line about 6 to 8 month ago after i won the dino battle. essentially, i had a maxijet pump in the display that was feeding the sterilizer via silicone tubing with a a couple of PVC 90degree elbows; the water would then travel through the uv sterlizer and exit back to the tank via another set of silicone tubing and pvc elbows.
Got rid of my skimmer a while ago and don’t have sump. I found keeping a good tank is all about balance not equipment
Good video
Very very informative and great to learn from this video..
thanks!
Every beginner should watch this. Excellent
Shyamsunder K thanks so much for this compliment
@@TheBioReef honestly all the mumbo jumbo about parameters about fowlr, reef tank, fish only confuses and scares folks from keeping marine tanks your video is best of all the videos i've seen. May be if you have time you can do about other parameters. That would be an absolute bible sort for beginners .👏👏👌👌
Shyamsunder K sure thing!
Good video! - I have high phosphates 2.0 yes thats 2 not .2 - My way to combat algae is I have a refugium with a Kessil H380 that outcompetes the display for algae. If I turn the refugium lights off for a week, I see algae starting to form.
Reefing with O wow.. thanks for sharing
Great video. I had my PO4 above 2.5 for over a month. At first the acros colored up a great deal but stopped growing. Then the skin looked a little bumpy like it wanted to grow but wasn't getting the skeleton growth to support it. Being somewhere in the middle(.04-.5) I would assume is the key. I have since lowered it under 0.1.
I have also noticed that an established tank deals with high nutrients much better than a new tank started with dead rock. Add a piece of dead rock to the tank under light and watch it become an algae factory within weeks.
thanks Trevor. Yes. agreed re. tank age. i think a tank's capacity to deal with algae is influenced by its biodiversity and age
Very well explained and very informative....I got ya 👍
thanks
Glad you aquarium is doing good. There's a lot of gray areas here.
Very informative vidéo, merci!
Do you have an idea of the kind of nitrate and phosphate levels in the research?
It differs from study to study. Which specific study where your curious about
I was using nopox for a year, was great for the first 6 weeks, wiped all my phosphates a nitrates out but then I spent the rest of the years fighting dinos. I used dino x and blackout, dinos would go then 2 weeks to a month later they would be back. I stopped using no pox rigged up a refugium, which doesn't wipe nutrients out but definitely keeps my ph stable and the dinos disappeared.
You know this was very interesting..I had a Dino outbreak ... I was at zero nitrates and PO4 was at .02. I raised my nutrients and they went away...My tank looks more vibrant with high Nitrates 15 Ppm and Phosphates at .2 so you may be have a point. I have a refugium to help control algae and excess nutrients. How often do you do water changes and do you run a skimmer? Thanks for the info.
my phosphates shot right up at one point when i start overdosing amino acids. and i did saw lots of algae growth because i have a nano tank with no herbivores, but i noticed my leather coral size doubles in a month.
i have a 12gallon and the tanks always had like 20-40ppm nitrates and low phosphates, there is a reddish brown montipora plating type coral that has recently grown out of the side of the live rock, i dont dose the tank and just let it do its thing with water changes every 2-3 weeks atleast.
Interesting to find this video along with TM now selling Phos/Start and Phos/Feed. Still seems to be getting some flack from RHF on R2R.
Great...Totally agree !!!! Enough clean up crews will definitely help. My sea cucumber & sea mouse eats green algae in my sand. I m so grateful for them. Only issue now i hv is Bubble algea.......my emerald crabs are not working. Is there any other clean up crew tat can help & yet reef safe ? Also i hv atapsia, butterfly will help but my corals will be eaten up. So any other solution ? Thanks
Annie
thanks Annie. I've always heard that emrald crabs are good for bubble algae - perhaps consider adding a couple of more. Also, you may want to reduce feeding the tank a bit just to entice them to eat the bubble algae. Re. Aptasia - alas, i've never had it so not sure what the best way is. But i've hear that copperband butterfly fish do eat aptasia and are reef safe, but they are a bit of a risk, and often starve to death after the aptasia are gone
Yeah, I’ve experienced same thing when was fighting algae by lowering nutrients. Eventually I got the so low, undetectable, that even soft coral started bleaching. All these organisms do need nitrates and phosphates. And levels even like 50ppm NO3 and 1ppm PO are not going to kill your corals, they just can promote too much algae growth. In my case, though, I always have high nitrates and undetectable phosphates and cannot find the reason why it’s happening, especially because it’s a small 20g tank and all nutrient export I’m using currently is only water changes. Maybe the food matter too. Like, I never feed frozen food (afraid to pollute the water), only pellets.
you can try dosing phosphates to balance things out a bit. i also had undetectable p04. i dosed small volumes of potassium phosphates for a few month and now my tank is able to maintain 0.1 ppm P04 on its own
The benefit to frozen food is people feed less because they are bulky looking and largely made of water (like any animal), which means people are putting less organic matter into the tank. Pellets etc are very high calorie per gram and for the same volume, you'll be adding way more nutrients. Try frozen, it isnt the curse some people think it is.
Are the beneficial levels of nitrate and phosphate you measure, clearly understood to be truly dissolved , or could they actually be particulate?
( I imagine the condition of the nutrients might determine which organisms benefit most. )
Damn I smashed my skimmer with a mallet half way through the video, then you said not to do that at the end of video.
i need to have viewers sign a liability contract
😂😂😂 I didn't go that far but I turned mine off. My nutrients are almost undetectable.
I think the key you hit on was control of nuisance algae when nitrates and phosphates are feeding it. The two reasons make very much sense (enough leftover nutrients for the corals, plus controlling the competition for those nutrients) - it’s a very fine balance....
Haha, I’m starting to wonder if the question we reefers need to ask ourselves is, “WWMND?” What would Mother Nature do? 😁😁😁
We should get custom shirts with that slogan! WWMND :)
I love that idea! 😁
Very useful info thanks a lot for sharing bro.!
thanks Ahmed!
I think that it would help at the beginning if you define what "high" is. Is high nitrate 5-10ppm? 10-20? 40ppm? Same with Phosphate, is 0.1ppm high? Is 0.2ppm high?
Based on watching the video, you consider 10-20ppm Nitrate high, and 0.2-0.4ppm Phosphate high.
I think that the paradigm is true, but the people warning you over "high nutrients" are thinking that high nitrate is 50+ and High Phosphate is 0.5ppm or more (tanks can handle high phosphate more gracefully in my experience, whereas high nitrates can be toxic). Successful reefs do not often have nitrates of 50ppm or phosphates of 0.4ppm.
So I think that this video is awesome in sharing that aiming for zero's regarding nutrients is bad, but we certainly don't want people cranking their nitrates up to 50ppm and expecting success. Another big factor is how fast the nutrient levels change and their stability over time.
I enjoyed the vid!
Yes, i know that my levels are not what many people would consider high. But, based on some advice, any detectable level of N and P is high. For example, RedSea recommends Nitrates to be 0.25-0.5 ppm and p04 0.01-0.02 ppm for a SPS dominant tank - my tank would be 'high' nutrients against that benchmark. Really, the video is about questioning the old school paradigm of trying to run ULN system
that paper puts alot into perspective. I myself have experienced the nutrient fever, constantly trying to keep them close to zero. I believe once they put the low nutrient theory out there it become profitable to monopolize on this and out came the mechanisms and snake oils. google any reef tank issue and products pop up to remedy it. the reefs are full of biological processes and so are aquariums. its all about bacteria and processes. I only have issues when I try to change something to meet my wants.
Great vid very informative..
thanks!
What lights do you use and is that a type of conch snail? What is the best snail for eating diatoms?
Hi Johny, i use Radions; have a look at a few recent vids on my channel to see how my lights are setup. That is a strawberry conch. Not sure how it really does with diatoms, but i always see it around cleaning the lower parts of my rock work
I never managed to get a reading above zero on phosphates although I feed heavilly. I thought my tests were bad.
I have a mixed reef with a large number of anemones and I guess they are consuming all the phosphates available, I can't find any other explanation.
I can't keep an acropora though, with alk at 10 and Ca at 430. I can't detect nitrates either.
“Low nutrient” objectives were created way back when we had no idea how to keep SPS alive. Commercial companies latched on as they can sell all kind of products for nutrient control… Glad to see more and more people realizing nutrients aren’t the enemy.
Great video.
thanks!
Sorry for the question but you are obviously well versed so...
Any ideas on vermetid snails?? They bother my zoa?
Hi Carl, I can speak much about zoa - i don't have any in my tank. I do have vermetid snails but they don't seem to bother my acropora at all
My tank had nitrates around 30-40 and my corals and anemone were doing so well! Lps we’re expanding so nicely and anemone was doing so well too, i decided to bring my nitrate down and guess what, im now on undetected nitrates and my corals aren’t opening as large and my anemone is losing its colour as if its bleaching. Doesnt open as big also. Used to open up to 6-7 inches but now only 3. My torches used to expand out like hugeee but now its only expanding a little like an inch from the head... damn my tank was doing so much better when i had more nitrates. No wonder the guy at the lfs told me to keep my nitrates at 20ppm for the anemone.
sorry to hear that. you can remove your nitrate reducing media or consider dosing potassium nitrate
Yep im gonna remove my denitrate later today
I had several sps and lps corals in a thriving well established 75 gal reef... a beautiful huuuge blue stag, several acros including a beautiful orange table, torches, hammers, finger (leather), star polyps, xenia frags etc... long story short I had an incident that made my standard of husbandry and frequency of water changes impossible for an extended period... Nitrates and phosphates shot through the roof... I faced my first crash... kind of... I lost a few fish, but I had a ridiculous bio-load at the time that compounded the lack of decent husbandry very quickly. BUT the star polyps and leather corals thrived so well in a higher nitrate/phosphate system that the colonies exploded and literally overgrew everything. I was not in a position to thin them out at the time. A few of my fish, namely my hippo and yellow tang, also did not mind the increased algae growth. Somehow at 80+ ppm nitrate my Rose bubble tip survived although it did split... I attribute that to the wonderful job my gold banded maroon clown does of nurturing the anemone. My dragon mandarin and the amphies and copepods also seemed relatively unaffected... it didnt look the best but I was shocked at how well most of the tank got along without me... that was years ago. My reef has since done very well with a reduced bio load and NO water changes... I run a sulphur denitrator, and some gfo in a reactor, a good skimmer, a dsb in the sump w some macro and high output led's, metric crap ton of live rock and all the little critters (which sadly were the first to go during the crash)... I try to keep nitrates between 5-10 ppm which can be tricky as the sulphur reactor does its job amazingly well once its seeded... I have to dose calc and a few other supplements occasionally but my pH remains stable (it seems through ANYTHING). I don't aim for undetectable, just stable. I absolutely believe what you're saying, although I'd emphasize that "high" for trate is 20-30ppm... 80+ppm isnt just high for nitrates... its eventually toxic to alot of reef livestock, and others, amazingly enough, thrive even there... it's all about balance once a tank is established imo. I can agree, through personal experience, that maintaining nutrients at relatively medial levels can actually benefit your reef a great deal... good husbandry, balance and stability are the name of the game... I love your videos man. Thank you for taking the time!
thanks for sharing Chris.
Nice one, keep it that way buddy! How about glass cleaning? Is it problematic with your parameters? Or its fine?
a couple of times a week usualy
I am running a skimmerless 28 gallon nano tank with an auto water change system (DOS - Neptune Apex). At this point doing no nutrient testing. What are your thoughts 2 years later from this video.
still a big detectable nitrates and phosphates; have not had any issues with my 4.5 year old reef with nitrates >5 and phosphates > 0.1
When they did the test around nitrate and phosphate you just mentioned elevated levels. What does that actually correspond to in numbers. Did the study mention any actual levels? Thanks for the vid.
I must have missed something... from the graphs, doesn't it show that elevated PO4 showed increased calcification while elevated NO3 showed no change or even decreased calcification? Plus, our testings are showing available nutrients in the water while chemical reactions and uptake in coral/algae often occurs in close proximity... which clouds the issue but ultimately it might mean these organisms use what they need/when they need it as it's available...excess may be detrimental. Dunno. I do know that my tank has had algae blooms with or without testable nutrients as it seems to utilize many ways of growing.
Awesome video. Thank you for bringing science into our hobby :) I can only subscribe and like but your work is very much appreciated!
One follow-up question: What does the "elevated levels of phosphate/nitrate" mean as the definition is used in the paper? What is the baseline/reference level to be able to put all this information into context? Thanks!!
Thanks! The paper summarized different studies that used different levels/amount of enrichment of N and P. So, this is not a useful paper from a sense of finding out the exact thresholds of chemical (i.e. ppm in your tank water). Nevertheless, the power of this sort of analysis comes from looking at effect sizes from multiple studies -> each study may have had some shortcomings and biases, but looking across 40 or 50 studies gives you a very good idea of what the 'big picture' looks like. here is the link for the table showing the different experiments and amounts of N + P representing the enriched condition
www.esapubs.org/archive/ecol/E095/174/appendix-A.php
How often do you do water changes beautiful tank
I do a weekly 15 L water change using the regular instant ocean ... more info on husbandry can be found here
th-cam.com/video/zvxXmwmr8_E/w-d-xo.html
I've experienced the very same thing in my battle with dino's as well. My only struggle at the moment is trying to keep N03 and P04 from bottoming out in my tank. I dose both every other day, I've removed my skimmer, been leaving my filter sock in for 10 days (which I may remove altogether) and just today I've removed a pc of Marine Pure block from my sump. The only filtration I have left is my live rock, a filter sock and an algae scrubber which I may remove next. Everything you read is all about how to lower these bad elements and I agree with you 100%, my tanks never looked better since trying to keep these higher thank zero. My goal is N03 .5-1.0 and P04 around .02. For anyone with values of zero I think you're headed for trouble. My battle with dino's had me on the brink of giving up a 30 yr hobby and the answer was elevated levels of nitrate and phosphate. Thanks for sharing what seems to be a 180 on current trends and learned through experience.
Thanks for the feedback and it seems like we both shared a similar experience with dinos and high nutrients. regarding keeping nutrients up - i did rely on dosing phosphorous and nitrates to maintain levels, but by gradually beefing up my feeding schedule, i am finding that i can maintain stable levels of nutrients in my system without any additional dosing.
Interesting perspective. I am hopeful. The paper you cited from a respected publication is entitled "Are nutrients are bad" I have to ask what kind of language use is that?
thats actually my bad - i made a mistake when writing the title that i put on the slide show
@@TheBioReef thanks for that disclosure, I had to read the title multiple times and just couldn't understand what I was missing there!
AndyMahnFL411 yeah - totally my bad. Funny I didn’t notice until now.
@@TheBioReef no worries, just jumped out at me for some reason. Thanks for the video and the perspective.
What do you use to dose nitrate and phosphate I'm suffering from low nutrients and my lps is getting hit
Marlon's C I used to dose KNO3 potassium nitrate and seachem phosphorus; KNO3 can be purchased in many formats, including Bayer stump remover. If you going to dose, go slow so you don’t shock your system
What software are you using for the N03 - PO4 data capture?
that is apex fusion
What did they consider elevated nitrate and phosphate to be??
Hey, I checked my EVS bottles, I didn’t see where the calcium had magnesium in it, recently I had to dose a bunch of magnesium, sorry to get off the subject, ur definitely on to something that I know, higher nitrates and phosphates grow my corals better and faster, ur 100% right!
I think the information gets lost in the community since many people are inputting their experiences. With this, we'll have seasoned reefers with 5, 10 even 20 year old systems. Then newer reefers That have been in the hobby for 5 years or so, but have tanks mature to 2 to 3 years.
Higher nutrients and your corals will be happier, makes sense. But a lot in this hobby makes sense, and I keep finding more troubles it seems.
I think control on a younger tank and slowing progress the levels as the tank matures. Like after 3 or so years of control.
That seems to make sense.
But, what did I just mention about sense??
God I love this hobby!!!
great video, i wouldnt call your params "high" though. spot on for a mix reef. high phosphates would be above .50 and high nitrates above 20ppm. IMO
and not sure if you touched on this, but levels that high are sustainable as well if your alk is up. its been proven tanks will do well with high nitrates/phosphates if alkalinity is also high, and in the 9-12dkh range. if alk is low, nutrients need to be low too.
also mike paletta and sanjay who are often featured on american reefers channel run tanks that are consistent with what you're saying as theyve both said many times they have phosphates and nitrates and they have great systems with lots of healthy corals.
thanks for the insights Jessie.
Yeah, I've been following both Mike and Sanjay's systems. I think the most illuminating thing about the new paper is that the science that was used to justify the ULS paradigm seems to have shifted. That is, the old paradigm is not supported by science as much as we believed.
@@TheBioReef agreed. this is all very interesting of relevent note, i take care of a system for a client who over feeds, and thats where my opinion of "high" nutrients comes from. the client over feeds. phosphates between .45-.55 and nitrates 20-22. fish thrive , a lot of coral does very well too. but once the tank started consuming alk and Ca more, cyano showed up in the sump. the nutrient levels didnt change when this happened, rather it happened when alk dropped from 8.5 dkh to 6.5 dkh within 7 days. i have finally got the client to agree to install a doser. with alk and calc back where theyre suppose to be, and stable - no more cyano issue.
Stability is the key, I do not do water changes on my tank. I will say I am heavy on my filtration. I run carbon, phosguard, biopellets, filter socks and skimmer but I do not to water changes but I dose Cal/Mag ALK as needed. I keep my nitrates on the 20 below range. I realized that every time I did water changes the problem would clear up and then it was back to where it was. At that point I said it's just a waste in time and money just later find out when I went to the local lfs to watch the own siphon the detritus into a filter and let the filtered water go back into the sump. I asked how often they did water changes and he replied by saying rarely ever unless in a emergency situation and as long as the filtration is on point everything will be fine.
LazyReefer same here, no WC for over a year. Do you dose trace elements, strontium, etc.?
@@kazasgeorge I don't but I'm currently doing more research in those types of elements. I am trying to keep everything as simple and as affordable as I can. The thing with this hobby that there is too much snake oil in it.
Just a question but how do you remove detritus once it accumulates on the sandbed
LoL I’ve been running my AIO with 40ppm Nitrates and 0.5 to 0.6 Phosphate for over 4 years.
Key is stability, once your tank adapts to the parameters, it will slowly thrive.
Problem is with new tanks and adding new frags.
Great video! I keep mostly LPS ... I had a sump but about 2yrs ago I started growing chaeto and my nitrates are down but corals stopped growing and alot of them calcified. Should I stop growing chaeto? Would appreciate your advice
Were your lps healthy before adding chaeto ?
@@TheBioReef yes very much before .my LPS corals were growing left and right. Now I struggle to keep them.
@@blink1181 perhaps gradually cut back on the photo period of your fuge and see how your corals respond.
@@TheBioReef so I was running it from 8 to 5am now I have it from 9 to 4..... after that how much less do you think? Thank you!
@@blink1181 I would go gradually, maybe 30 min less ever week, monitoring nutrients and watching for signs of stress on corals and tank
You mentioned you have high nitrates and phosphates, could you please tell me how high it is in ppm
Proof of the pudding is in the eating. And your corals are colored up very nice.
FADETOBLACK thanks
Can you tell me some of your other numbers? Alk? Calcium? Or what you are focusing on.
Thank you
i generally like to keep my alk around 8, and calcium around 420, mag around 1300
Also, do you dose Triton?
no
wow i went and worked at the university where the paper was written! very cool
cool
I use a salifert po4 test kit and aslong as it is 0.1 to 0.25 Iam happy I keep my ph at 8.4 and dkh at 9.5 everything is good if I have my whites on too much he to some we algea on Sand but my cronches sort that out over night Iam mainly sps LP's worse thing you can get is a Hanna checker and start chasing stupid numbers if I get to 0.25 ppm po4 I won't feed corals till it lowers I run aquaforest np pro and probiotic s wich converts phosphates and nitrates into food for corals
Well got a Hanna phosphorus ulr Iam actually 0.426 ppm 😆😆😆 my tank is booming 4.7ppm nitrates Hanna well test kits are crap 😆
Cool video.
thanks!
can you tell me what are you dosing for N03 P04 ? my water is way to clean I get good growth but not so much coloration.
potassium nitrate and seachem flourish phosphorous (=potassium phosphate)
Gracias
de nada!
High phos affect acro , but does lower phos and nitrate affect zoas ?
My ribs never look so great since I've been carbonizing I think it's a good way to feed the squirrels and keep nutrients and check hopefully still working on it. Still working progress I mean.
What is that spinning thing stuck to the front of the glass
that is a nori clip from 2 little fishes
my nitrate was above 100 and algae was killing corals.
I did
0. Cut warm lights used bluish and less light
1. 10% water change from sand syphoning.
2. reduction of Bio-Load
2. U.V steriliser for 7 days
3. Vinegar dosing
Tank is now stable and I cant see alagae. only little brown alagae and some very hard hair algae like hard green grass on rocks.
now I got another shit of flatworms outbreak...I don't know what to do
Sultan Mehmood Ghaznavi not sure about flatworms. Perhaps a wrasse?
Awesome. My experience as well! What do you do to replenish trace elements in your tank? I’m curious.
i do water changes every week - about 15 L or 5 gallons; i use the cheap instant ocean salt. I am doing an experiment now on supplementing trace elements... will do a video on it in about a month
Get this guy on macna lol good vid man
MereReef thanks ;)
Surprised u don't have more followers but your info is backed by hard research.
thanks! tell you friends!