As a biologist and reef tank enthusiast myself, I got to say this is one of the most informative videos I have seen lately. In this hobby we often have nothing better to rely on then our gut feeling. I think it’s great when we can back up our theories with well thought out experiments. Thanks for sharing!
Finally, one other video on TH-cam that is actually presenting scientific studies relevant to our hobby! Way too much broscience, and the big brands can market with whatever wild claims they may come up with. A channel focusing on presenting scientific research that may be relevant to the reefing hobby, would probably grow a large following ❤️ BRS Investigates was really doing something right, but sadly haven’t seen them making more content for the last few years 🙁
I bought a 90 gallon setup with sump box and skimmer. I could not get the skimmer to work right so I stopped using it. I have ten fish some cleaners and lots of coral all doing great. It's been six months.
Keep this good research going man. This is awesome stuff. Your comment about companies selling things to strip the water then another to ad things back seems very accurate. Bravo. Please keep up these fantastic and informative videos.
Appreciate this video. Thanks for taking the time to hunt down these studies. IMO, we run our tanks too clean. I made that mistake for a long time. I currently don’t even run a skimmer. Shocking right? We’ll.. I don’t see the need as the NO3 is depleted. I dose a food grade NaNO3 to maintain a level between 3-5 ppm. My PO4 (from feeding) is about 0.8 ppm. So IMO I don’t need a skimmer. Back 10 years ago my corals were pale and would STN a lot. Tank was just too clean. My buddy’s tank constantly outgrew mine by 7 fold. I found out later after testing his water that he was flood feeding. One day his nutrients were moderately elevated and the next day I’d test and they were zero. We traded a lot of frags which is why I was able to test his water frequently. He would flood feed the tank and then perform a large water change to export after the corals were fed. So even when the tank was near zero- the corals had already eaten and had all the nutrients they needed and were not affected by zero levels. I thought this was actually genius and now I understand why it was working for him. I did not incorporate this into my regimen. However, I do keep plenty of nutrients in the water column and do water changes when necessary. Over and over I’m finding that the more nutrients in the tank the better growth I’m getting. Look at Sanjay’s tank for example. He’s NO3 and PO4 are very elevated, yet his corals look amazing. It’s all about letting the tank mature until it can handle large amounts of food/ nutrients without growing nuisance algae. The bottom line is that corals need to eat something and common sense says we all do better with nutrition. I don’t know, maybe I’ll start flood feeding the tank. I think the key is to get a reef stable and then slam it with food and export the waste while maintaining appropriate numbers to prevent plague algae outbreaks.
How long have you been running your tank? I'm about 14 years in (on this particular tank) and experienced a crash a few years in. I'm convinced that the old tank syndrome is caused by build up from poor tank keeping habits. I'd rather feed more heavily than remove my skimmer.
I completely agree what you said here, Reefahholic. I just spent the past 3 years going back and forth on trying to keep my tank very clean and feeding it reef-roids episodically. While trying to run the tank clean, I would consistently see and wonder why my corals just was looking so washed out, not growing well and some seem to be dying off. After I had episodes of wondering what was going on, I would go back to feeding the tank about once a week and would quickly see my corals perk up with consistent polyp expansion, growth and improved coloration. I am sold on feeding the tank regularly at this point. The only problem is that algae seems to like reef-roids too :-)
Greego - It’s all a balance! Gotta test and pay attention to details. Know what different corals look like under good conditions and depleted conditions. ✅
Every tank condition is different and corals as well, the corals in my reef gobble up spectrum pellets mix with reef roids . Always positive reactions so I will continue to feed.
Very true. We used to lived in Hawaii, I don’t have much knowledge about reeftank, but what we do is simply have coral lights, mixing salt, feeding the fish and we have sea water tank that we are using to do water change. We only do mix commercial salt for emergency. And our corals are thriving. I just learned a lot later that I thought I was doing all wrong when We moved here in the mainland and I learned the expensive ways. And now I think we were doing it just right.
I am very thankful for this video, based on serious articles and hard data, something difficult to find because unfortunately the web is full of “gurus “ and inaccurate or straight false information. I am a new suscriber to this channel. 👌🏼
I totally agree with your comment towards the end of the information being given out to push us to buy more bottles. They have a N and P removal product on one shelf and a N and P additive on the shelf above. You can buy both or buy neither and end up with the same result.
I went to filter floss and cup. Also dont think enough people tweak their skimmer enough, by running a dryer skim you keep more of that nutrients without giving up gas exchange and if nutrients get too high then increase the skim a bit.
I do believe your final thoughts about nutrients. I have a 10 months old 10 gallon reef tank. And it’s been a wide rode learning how to be successful with it. And now that I’m not trying to deplete nitrates and phosphate in the tank, all my corals seem to be doing well
Thank you for this Educational & Enlightening Video. You have just re-affirmed was has been told to me over and over again by people who have successful Reef tanks. Natural nutrition, Live Nutrition and limited filtration is key to Coral Health. No Additives needed if you have the basics in place. For the n-th time in 25 years I'm stopping all the Additives, removing my Overfiltration Media, and getting back to adding my Live Copepods again..... To get back to Natural Coral Feeding and maintaining my Water QUALITY, not Water CLARITY..
Wally b I love the emphasis about water quality and not clarity ; the unfiltered sea water is clear, raw sea water is not! But the latter was far superior to the other for acropora
Very well presented information and qiute surprising too. Something to think about next time we buy coral food and additives. Thank you for time to research and share.
I don't run a skimmer for several reasons. It is an extra piece of equipment, it will take out more than fish waste, such as bacteria and other microphone and phlora which are potential coral food. I learned about the ecosystem method of a backyard pond and so I have tried to look at safekeeping in a similar way.
May be put it on a timer, most micro organisms movements up and down the water column are a few hours at dusk and dawn . This also happens to be the times coral have known to show the most growth. Runing the skimmer while your lights are on should give a tank a boost in natural food. A airstone at night for gas exchange.
Great research and scientific proof, not only feeding coral but also maintaining a saltwater reef tank. You mentioned that you saw greater extension on your coral after removing your filter sock(s). Were you able to find any positive or negative long term results from this? or have you experimented with this idea of not filtering the water for better results?
First and foremost Amro thank you for taking time out to discuss the valuable literature. I completely agree with your findings. Corals live and thrive in the oceans under raw seawater which has tons of nutrients and live food and this totally proves the theory you shared. With this being clear we have another problem and that is how many fishes you need which are enough to provide the required nutrient levels. Of course it will depend on different tank sizes BUT if the tank sizes limits the number of fishes you add that means it also limits the amount of food waste (nutrients) you will need. I think this theory works in much more matured tanks wherein the bacteria and all sorts of live food is populating at enough pace to feed corals. I think in the beginning you need to still provide the corals with some nutrients in terms of added food so as to allow them to establish themselves in the earlier stage which can be obtained either by artificial food sources OR feeding your fishes quite often..Likewise i have also removed filter floss and filter socks from my system and things have been looking great....once again thank you so very much for sharing this wealth of information.
Awesome information just starting a nano tank a few months a go been do small water changes once a week and my coral looked horrible all week then Thursday thur Sunday they opened everyday. It’s totally makes sense to feed the fish everyday and let their waste feed the coral just like in the sea. 🤯 I’ve been running my tank tooo clean I was just about to order coral food thank you again. I’m going to let the tank get a little dirty and see how the coral continues to look.
Great video, very interesting. Products get pushed all the time, and we obey to the 2%. Interested to see what further changes you did to your tank and what affects were found
Very interesting study. Thanks for sharing. I'm probably one of the few people that uses raw, unfiltered sea water in my tank. I collect it from Puget sound and it appears crystal clear to the eye so I never bothered with filtering it for any sediment or debris. The observation that I have made is that every frag added to the tank has increased polyp extension and coloration that is very noticeable within a few days and continues to improve for weeks. That said, I also feed Reef Roids once a week so I'm not sure which is responsible for the results.
interesting. Well, if your puget sound water is similar to the raw water used in the second paper's study, then it is blowing the reef roids out of the water!
A great video, I’ve been experimenting my self. I not experienced and had algie problems from trying to feed corels. Mainly zoas so far I’ve scaled everything back I now use reefroids once a week but after the tub is finished and going to only add poly booster. Since trying this everything seems to be growing great with lots off new bud forming, algie still a problem at the moment but this was defiantly what was missing from my system.
Thank you taking the time to use research to provoke discussion. Did anyone else notice the redfield ratio was closest in raw seawater and if Artemis added P. Then that ratio would have been spot on. I also noted N in the form of aminos was valued like what we get in acropower and bio enhance. I don't feed roids for acros but do for LPS and looks better next day so very supportive of more research in this area on other corals. Personally I want to add clean water not viruses and add the right things. Maybe driving this the hobby $ could help save our reefs too.
Joshua W do you directly spot feed your LPS or do you just add it to the water column? When I spot feed my Euphyllia they don’t seem like it very much as the tend to shrivel up for almost a week.
What you're talking about in this video reminded me of my 2-3 year stint with ZEOVIT. Essentially you strip the tank of anything and have to add it back in. While some people had success, I had nothing but constant problems. The best looking tank I ever had was when I was in college and I didn't know anything and just slapped it together. I agree our tanks are too clean. I'd love to see a study of someone using the "bio-in-a-bottle" products like prodibio and microbacter7 and their effects on coral growth.
I think we need to realize that in a 200-300 Million dollar/year industry, manufacturers will go to great lengths to have us buy their products. Bottle A -> causes a problem, Bottle B -> solves a problem; good for business
I feed oyster eggs once a week since my Zoas seem to like it. I don’t run socks either but have an oversized skimmer and big fish so lots of fish poop. Only other additive is Acropower dosed nightly. I have found that PE on Acros is definitely better when dosing it. Just my 2 cents
Thanks Mike - I did do a video on aminos, that suggested that corals may benefit from aminos as they can’t bio synthesize histidine, and this relay on their symbionts for that
Those the study ever talk about polyp extension? I see some people have polyp extension all day. Did they have polyp extension when feeding? Just wondering if feeding at night something like reef roids would be beneficial since polyps would be out trying to catch food. Thanks.
Poking Clams 24/7 good question. The papers didn’t discuss this but in natural reefs, I know that most acropora retract their polyps in the day to minimize damage by fish like butterflies that feed on coral polyps. So the natural state is to only have polyps extension at night. In the reef thank, this can be changed if you feed consistently during the day time so long as you don’t have fish that pick at your corals during the day
@@TheBioReef So what i am wondering is if the test allowed enough time for the corals to adapt to this change in time of feeding. Raw unfiltered water from the ocean will most likely have food in it at all times. I remember reading they keeped the tanks steriled by taking debri out after feeding. Just wondering if when polyp were out, most likely during lights out if the feed at that time. That's something I guess Ms. Jessica would have to answer. Nice video by the why.
@@Pokingclams Ok, gotcah... yes that i don't know, although i am guessing the lights were also on a dark/light cycle, so the corals would still be able to access food in the raw water at night when the lights were out. Thanks for watching!
Looking at your beautiful tank which shows such great results from whatever you’re doing: 1. I don’t feel so bad now for having NO3 at around 10 and PO4 at around 0.14 - more importantly, I don’t feel such an urge to get them lower; 2. I stopped fluffing my sandbed when my tank had it’s near-crash 10 days ago, thinking I didn’t want to stir things up and possibly add to whatever the problem was. I’m going to start doing that again daily like I used to so that whatever is organic and decomposing can become available to the corals that might eat it; 3. I’m no longer going to feel guilty for being lazy about feeding my tank with the several different types of commercial powdered foods I have (a couple of which were included in the studies you showed). Instead, see #2. 😁 4. I’m going to keep my filter cups with filter floss in them just so my sump doesn’t collect quite so much material that will accumulate and pose a potential gas-release issue when I disturb it during cleanup (which I strongly suspect was the cause of the near-crash). At the same time, I’ll continue my new routine of using a small powerhead to keep things stirred up down there to reduce said accumulation. Keeping the stuff suspended might allow some of it to return to the display tank for use by the corals....🤔 I loved this video! It has really made me think. I appreciate your analysis of the studies, putting them in the context of our own tanks. I haven’t had much time lately to watch videos but I’m going to go and watch your first video about nitrate and Phosphate. 👍🏻👍🏻
p.s.s. just saw you video; i think your assessment is bang on; i would check any equipments and magnets for signs of corrosion - sounds like a poisoning event
We pulled the pumps from the water change totes to check them and they’re both fine. I need to take the skimmer out to clean it, and I’m also going to check the Finnex heater that’s at the back of the sump. It looked fine two weeks ago when I tested my new VCA vacuum attachment to clean the sump floor (video to come) but I want to examine it closely. We have scheduled maintenance on the return pump next weekend, so I’m also going to remove the UV sterilizer pump and check it. I also should check the nano reactor pump, even though it’s only a couple of months old. I’ll try and do that tomorrow if I have time. At this point I am seriously wondering if it’s something leaching from equipment because I’d have expected some of the corals (the euphyllia for example, and the montis) to have started to show even some minute signs of improvement - and they’re actually still declining. I told my husband I’m hoping it IS a piece of equipment because then it won’t have been my fault...😬 Haha, but it probably was...🤷♀️
@@Reefgrrl save a 100 mls or so of tank water - you can consider sending them for an ICP test to figure out what the contamination is; Aquarium Depot in Toronto sells the triton ICP tests than can now be sent to Quebec for analysis with results coming a week or two later; a lot faster than a year ago where the tests had to be sent to Germany with results coming a month or two later
Excellent video. In the video you said you use reef roids and then at the end you said youre thinking of stopping. Just wondering if you have stopped and also if youre going to do another update in say 30 days to show any changes?
I inconsistently added reef roids, but only for the past couple of month or so, and even then, it was once a week whenever i could remember. I decided to give it up; i doubt it will have an effect because i essentially went through about a year of not feeding corals at all without any negative consequences on growth. but i'll certainly update the channel if things go wonky with the tank
The one comment I would make is that we all know that SPS corals do not respond well to changes in their environment. Light, chemistry or nutrition. It usually takes an SPS at least 3 months (usually much more) to really start growing after we get them into our tank. As such I believe the value of 45 day or 12 weeks experiment which essentially changed the corals nutrition is of limited value.
Vasco Jardim - I agree with this 100%. Not to mention... there’s too many unknowns. How old was the test tank? What was the water volume? What were the starting numbers? Was there filtration on the tank? Fish population? wild corals? For me there’s not enough information to draw a conclusion. There’s so many ways to run an experiment like this that would all yield different results. We all know that 2 tanks will vary even with the exact same setups, water, salt, etc.
What a great video! Perhaps someone can answer a question of mine: I've got a 6 month old reef, lots of fish (which I feed generously every day) and I've seen great coral growth, especially with SPS. The only issue is on some of the rocks GHA has gotten up to 0.5" thick. Turbo snails and hermits won't touch it. Is this just a side effect of a maturing tank? I'm assuming once the coraline algae covers the rocks with time the GHA will be less prevalent. I would appreciate any advice you may have!
@@TheBioReef Macroscopically it does not resemble bryopsis, but I will confirm with a mic sometime tomorrow. I know nuisance algae is expected in a new reef but I would like to strike a balance between feeding the SPS growth with 'dirty' water and still having the rockwork look good. I am beginning to think it's not possible in a tank as immature as mine (I used 50/50 live rock to dry rock; suspected GHA is teeming on the live rock only).
@@wildlife3083 Gotcha; well, the key to running a 'dirty' tank without a lot of algae issues is to have a health and diverse herbivore population. A tang helps if your tank has space for it. Tuxedo urchins are great. Also note that it very common for new tanks to have some algae here and there. As you get more corraline on your rocks, your'll find that you'll see less GHA and more of the film algae that is easier to clean by the CUC.
Hi my friend,Thanks a lot for this very enriching articles summary!What would be your recommendations for having not "so clean" water reef tank - regarding mechanical and biological filtration, any insights regarding our skimmers? are those maybe too efficient? You mention that after removing filter sock you saw some additional acropora growth... As mentioned in my previous messages I seek for finding ways to "soil" my too clean water and beside of having increasing the number of food distributions and have a more diverse food (that is doesn't seem to really influencing) should it be only by manually adding nutrients as P or N?
for now - i don't have any concrete answers for you. But my feeling is that running a take with some levels of detectable nitrates and phosphates and introducing organisms that can possibly spawn in your tank (providing food for tank inhabitants) may be a good idea. Not sure about effect of skimmers, but cutting down on mechanical filtration also seems like it can only help
Great video! I got two questions. Have you stopped dosing particulate foods and how do you feel about liquid foods like AA and coral vitalizer etc. I know this will be your personal opinion, but I'm interested!
Yes, i've stopped doing reef roids after i read the second paper. I used to dose acropower aminos two years ago, but it coincided with my dino outbreak, so i stopped doing that for good!
Nice study but there is two point i feel a bit obscure: - in the first study they use like 10 times the recommended dosing of the coral food but they dont mezsure the waste of nutrients in the water like nitrates. Which an increase of this parameter directly affect the growth of the corals. It would have been nice to include it in the study. - in the second one you talk about the result on the millepora. Ok thoses résults are revelant and clear. But we dont know if this millepora is a wild caught / ocean farmed or aquarium farmed. Let me explain: we often notice a lot of time of acclimation on certain corals to our aquarium water, so it maybe not the result of the feeding we notice but the result of the stress. I know this is complexe but this point is questionnable too. Anout your conclusion, it really depends, nutrients are good for corals i mean really, and i'm a heavy feeder too. But its really a balance between the feeding of your fishes and the feeding of your corals. I would have been less "direct" into the conclusion. Cheers
Hi. thanks for sharing your thoughts. the corals in the second study were wild caught, but were allowed to acclimate in the experimental tanks for a month or so. i don't think it was a matter of stress because they even grew just in the control filtered sea water.
@@TheBioReef a month is a bit short for some species. Especially australian ones. I used to do natural sea water water changes it is good but very risky in some aspects. Polluants and so on...
Based on the way the experiment was conducted. I wouldnt expect the phytoplankton based foods to do anything for the corals they dont really eat phyto its ment to feed sponges,tunicates, feather dusters. But most importantly copepods, isopods and amphipods etc. The seawater is already full of zooplankton and microplankton. I think tanks that use skimmers and very fine mechanical filtration results would be very different and could benefit from dosing.
Great video once again. So difficult to find peer reviwed data that is specific to closed sytems. However if one searches more proficiently (I use research gate with my academic logon) there has been very interesting data available for a number of years. In my reef store I use the motto “Modern Sustainablr Reefing” All of the advice and products I recommend are based on scientific understanding. However the most popular products I sell are those that I can give no recommendation. If a supplier is not willing to divulge the basic principles and constituants of their product, Then the only evidance one can make an informed decision on is anecdotal evidance. Unfortuntely anecdotal evidance often contains wide variations in results. Some will se posative reaction some neutral and some negative. This is down to a lack of understanding of the complex nature of closed sytems. Unless one can reproduce results consistantly across a wide range of controls then the data is virtually useless. This is why scientific reviewed data is so much mor valuable. Subscribed to your channel and will recommend to my customers. I just hope they will take your advice, as they seem to be reluctant to take mine. Instead they are convinced by manufacturers and articles that the newest product is the answer. This in itself can lead to brand switching and instability. You hit the nail on the head with the second paper. In marine biology we understand the vital importance of bacteria with regards coral metabolics. Bacteria is the area we should all be looking at. Thankfull Dr Cristoph in Austria is working along side Aquabihome with the facility to DNA test our aquarium waters. Keep up the great videos, Best wishes Tony Thompson, Sustainable Marine Aquatics.
With any coral, consistency is key, so I wonder how researchers can generalize results when they are using one set of water, light, and tank (live rock, fish, other inverts, etc.) parameters. I’m glad you discussed the deficiency and confounding variable problem at the end of your video. I am curious if perhaps research into coral metabolism would yield even better results. Does anyone know which enzymes different corals exist and how, exactly, they digest food, be it live or synthetic?
Thanks for a VERY well researched video. I have been feeding dried coral foods and I'm generally disappointed with color and growth. As a result of this video, I am considering switching to live food (e.g. Algae Barn's products). It immediately raises the question of skimming. I think I'll try feeding live and leaving my skimmer off for 12 house, then run it the remaining 12 hours each day. Thoughts?
thanks John. Regarding skimming, you can figure out the degree to which a skimmer will remove your live food as a function of how much water its pump is pulling relative to your total volume and display to sump turnover rate. I may only be a theoretical risk, but you would need to do some calculations to figure that out.
As long as you keep your nitrates and phosphates parameters on the low end you are good to go. I never do water changes, my skimmer usually is on but I lower it's level so I get the oxigen benefit and PH. To control Nitrates I use Debitrate reactor and PO3 I use Rowaphos. I always had success this way and I keep things simple.
@Oscar Bedoya New studies suggest that the water should not be ultra clean and that 0.2 phosphates are actually needed. This is supported also on Reef2Reef and reef Central.
MereReef I do it approximately every 6 month - I don’t actually do any scraping or cleaning the glass of the sump, I usually run a couple of powerheads to stir detritus and then either do a large water change from the sump or run a pump that cycles sump water through a filter.
AmroAzul TV th-cam.com/video/RFJaR0s4Qcg/w-d-xo.html In this video i noticed when your nitrates went to about 10 your sps browned out do you still agree woth this or think maybe it was to do with the fact the nitrates went high but too quickly that caused the sps to brown out?
So where do we draw the line? How much filtration is enough? What then is a sweet spot combination in filtration? Also, where is the threshold in PPM for Nitrates and Phos where coral growth suffers? Watched both of your videos and they mention elevated levels but what exactly are those levels.
Thanks for the comments; it is hard to come up with good rules because different systems have different abilities to export nutrients, and system age also plays a role. I've seen successful reef tanks with nitrates ~ 10 ppm and phosphates at 0.1 to 0.2 ppm. i think the main points to take from this summary is that zero or ultra low nutrients are not necessary ideal
Very good video. I've read the first article a long time ago and from personal experience being an sps nut, having 0 NO3 or PO4 is not good. I've been dosing nitrates and amino acids back into the system and using biopellets minimally just the manage spikes but still provide some bacterial source.
Just got into the hobby. I started my tank a little less than 3 months ago with raw sea water from my local beach and dive spot here at peanut Island in Palm Beach Florida (just because it's easier for me than mixing salt mix into rodi water) and have been doing most of my water changes with raw sea water. Results so far have been great. For filtration, I'm Using filter floss, carbon, purigen, and no skimmer. Already have significant Coraline algae growth all over the tank and my SPS, LPS, and Softies are also doing great.
@@TheBioReef Yes, and will also add that the 24 hours after a water change with raw sea water the coral open up bigger than normal and in general seem more lively. I do not see the same results when I do water changes with regular rodi water/salt mix.
I've honestly never heard of anyone who grabs natural seawater for their tank have issues with said tank, unless they get something they didn't mean to pick up with the water. They seem to grow corals super fast. "Gee, I wonder why!" - Area genius says. :) Do you run the water through a micron or anything before you use it out of curiosity?
would love to see a video about carbon dosing . because its supposed to reduce pho4 and no3 by being consumed by bacteria , witch on the other hand is supposed to increase the micro diversity in the tank .
thanks! will add it to my 'to investigate' list :) My quick comment on carbon dosing in that is unnatural - in a sense that in real reef, there isn't a bit influx of alcohol or vinegar to boost bacterial populations, but certainly a topic worthy of investigation.
Wow, so nice to have interesting informative videos on youtube. I have used reef roids with my LPS and found growth and colouration changes... I noticed the research focused exlusively on SPS... Wonder if theyd respond differently?
you are absolute right. i think the researchers focused on SPS because the relative difficulty of stoney corals vs. LPS in aquaculture. So the research can't be extrapolated to LPS. But as an aside, i've had a hammer and a torch go from 1 head to 10+ in about 2.5 years without directly feeding them [ at least not directly] so i think they can do just fine without the added food
Tomithy how much do you feed and in more detail what kind of changes have you seen? I’ve been feeding mine once a week for a month now by just adding it to the water column. This past week I did direct feeding and I feel they’re not expanding as well as they used to. Almost more shriveled up on some heads even, though all my parameters are still the same as they have been. No color change either.
Over filtration yes, I find it funny we put all this filtration, skimmers etc on our tanks, then we go and BUY all the minerals etc that the filtration has taken out and we put them back in our tanks, only for the filtration to taken out again, there's got to be a better and cheaper way to keep a marine tank.
I used to do reef roids once a week, but i've stopped that since i read the second paper. right now, only fish get fed (1x mysis; 2x pellets via autofeeder)
Here is a run down of my tank and husbandry th-cam.com/video/VzZzjvu2Gds/w-d-xo.html and here is the latest tank update th-cam.com/video/kiQs_BE1WeE/w-d-xo.html
Overall, I wonder if directly feeding the end product ie the macromolecules like Amino Acids (red seas AB+ or acropower), peptids etc would be more beneficial than feeding corals foods such as reef roids to start with. Also the addition of "live" phytoplankton. Not the bottled stuff.
Im having problems with acro growth at the moment. They look great but a bunch of them are barely growing. I do water changes every 2 weeks. I feed them once a week with reef rouds but not every week cuz I dont really see or think that they actually eat it. I have tons of micro organisms in my fuge. I e got 2 or 3 kinds of pods that i can see with my eyes. I have these little shrimp that look like mysis shrimp. Also amphipods, limpets, baby snails, like 2 or 3 different kinds, some muscles witch idk whefe they came from. I hope you see this and can possibly give me a little input or advice. Id greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
Hi LJ Is it a new tank ? growth can be slow at first, and it takes a while for things to show. what are your other parameters and what kind of lights do you run?
@@TheBioReef Its been set up since July. But most my rock and corals were from my previous tank I had before. My acros are all encrusting just not branching out.
@@LJsReef thats typical for sps. encrusting is growing, so i wouldn't worry about it and try to fix things. If they look great and are encrusting, then keep things stable and they will be full sized colonies in no time!.
Was the sps wild caught or captive frags that have been aqua cultured. Wild vs aqua cultured sps have very different ways they go about feeding. Wild Colonies tends to only feed at night due to predeters during the day. so the live food that stays in the system longer would have a better response than a man made food thats being filtered out. Aqua cultured Frags/colonies dont have the same threats more or less during the day since we watch what we introduce into the tank. So they are more inclined to stay out to feed thru out the day, what we call polyp extension. Also did they study the effects on lps and softies? Lps for one responds a lot more to feeding than any sps will. Same goes with zoa's. Also target feeding is by far the better way to feed since you dont waste as much as just dumping it .
the second paper used frags from wild colonies. But the food was left overnight, so they would have had enough contact with the food overnight. none of the studies targeted LPS or softies - presumably because they are much more hardy and not as tricky as stoney corals
@@TheBioReef how long have the frags been cut? As someone else mentioned in the another comment this will have an effect on growth rate as well. What kind of flow was in systems? With out adequate flow to keep the food suspended and moving in the water column. I'm not saying you and they are wrong but there are some many other variables. Also if feeding didn't work then coral farms like wwc wouldn't grow coral. they feed a man made mixture about every hour. Sps are not tricky, They just require more attention and stability.
Thank you for such a great video, I've been thinking about this too recently and think the foods have come about from the old theory that everyone needed 0 nitrates and phosphates, now days I think that we are almost sterilizing the water with skimmers, carbon and filter media amd wonder how much of it is needed, I do believe that a natural phyto diet and aminos are of benefit though
what are your water values of your aquarium. I also want SPS in my aquarium. I already tried this twice, but unfortunately this did not work. Do you have good tips?
i typically keep alk between 8 and 9, ca between 1400 and 1450, mag around 1400, Nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm and phosphates between 0.2 and 0.1 ppm. good luck!
Fack I just spent a ton of money on coral stuff lol. But I bought reef roids, amino acids, and all for reef by tropic Marin. I'm going to not run my skimmer for a couple weeks and see if I notice more extension and coloration. And then do the same with the products I bought. I'm not so much worried about growth that I am coloration. I know the reef hobby is about patience so they can grow at their normal rate I don't intend to speed it up
This is awesome info. This has big impacts as to the equipement I get and how I want to run my tank. I like the idea of growing live phyto down the track but this is great backup for those, like me, who see WWC feeding fish so often and not bothering with the coral. I do note this seemed like SPS specific. Also a lot of those Millis are collected near shore in Australia get all that runoff from the cane fields. Still I think your probably onto something and are starting the next trend in the industry will be bad for coral food producers ;)
I feed reef nutrition foods, phyto and rotifeast! Hoping they help, maybe not, just another way for us to spend more money, I do believe copepods and such are really good, started a refuge a few weeks ago,!
How is it shocking that powdered food made by some guys in their basement wouldn't beat water straight from the living oceans where corals have thrived for thousands of years in spite of humans?
Because humans usually make more nutritious food for special purpose. Like special foods for patients or astronauts beat any natural food in nutrition value. It’s good to know that these coral foods products are not so potent.
Just what this hobby needs...factual data for the win.
Just what I needed to see before I get my sump and reef set up.
Thank you.
Bothand Nether glad you liked it!
As a biologist and reef tank enthusiast myself, I got to say this is one of the most informative videos I have seen lately. In this hobby we often have nothing better to rely on then our gut feeling. I think it’s great when we can back up our theories with well thought out experiments. Thanks for sharing!
thanks Niels!
Finally, one other video on TH-cam that is actually presenting scientific studies relevant to our hobby! Way too much broscience, and the big brands can market with whatever wild claims they may come up with.
A channel focusing on presenting scientific research that may be relevant to the reefing hobby, would probably grow a large following ❤️
BRS Investigates was really doing something right, but sadly haven’t seen them making more content for the last few years 🙁
Well done! any research is better than advertisements for products
I've been keeping coral tanks for over 10'years and the best tank I had was skimmerless, im seriously thinking of going back :)
I bought a 90 gallon setup with sump box and skimmer. I could not get the skimmer to work right so I stopped using it. I have ten fish some cleaners and lots of coral all doing great. It's been six months.
Keep this good research going man. This is awesome stuff. Your comment about companies selling things to strip the water then another to ad things back seems very accurate. Bravo.
Please keep up these fantastic and informative videos.
thanks Matt
Appreciate this video. Thanks for taking the time to hunt down these studies. IMO, we run our tanks too clean. I made that mistake for a long time. I currently don’t even run a skimmer. Shocking right? We’ll.. I don’t see the need as the NO3 is depleted. I dose a food grade NaNO3 to maintain a level between 3-5 ppm. My PO4 (from feeding) is about 0.8 ppm. So IMO I don’t need a skimmer. Back 10 years ago my corals were pale and would STN a lot. Tank was just too clean. My buddy’s tank constantly outgrew mine by 7 fold. I found out later after testing his water that he was flood feeding. One day his nutrients were moderately elevated and the next day I’d test and they were zero. We traded a lot of frags which is why I was able to test his water frequently. He would flood feed the tank and then perform a large water change to export after the corals were fed. So even when the tank was near zero- the corals had already eaten and had all the nutrients they needed and were not affected by zero levels. I thought this was actually genius and now I understand why it was working for him. I did not incorporate this into my regimen. However, I do keep plenty of nutrients in the water column and do water changes when necessary. Over and over I’m finding that the more nutrients in the tank the better growth I’m getting. Look at Sanjay’s tank for example. He’s NO3 and PO4 are very elevated, yet his corals look amazing. It’s all about letting the tank mature until it can handle large amounts of food/ nutrients without growing nuisance algae. The bottom line is that corals need to eat something and common sense says we all do better with nutrition. I don’t know, maybe I’ll start flood feeding the tank. I think the key is to get a reef stable and then slam it with food and export the waste while maintaining appropriate numbers to prevent plague algae outbreaks.
thanks for sharing your experiences
How long have you been running your tank? I'm about 14 years in (on this particular tank) and experienced a crash a few years in. I'm convinced that the old tank syndrome is caused by build up from poor tank keeping habits. I'd rather feed more heavily than remove my skimmer.
@@vongregor1 about 2.5 years. sorry about your crash
I completely agree what you said here, Reefahholic. I just spent the past 3 years going back and forth on trying to keep my tank very clean and feeding it reef-roids episodically. While trying to run the tank clean, I would consistently see and wonder why my corals just was looking so washed out, not growing well and some seem to be dying off. After I had episodes of wondering what was going on, I would go back to feeding the tank about once a week and would quickly see my corals perk up with consistent polyp expansion, growth and improved coloration.
I am sold on feeding the tank regularly at this point. The only problem is that algae seems to like reef-roids too :-)
Greego - It’s all a balance! Gotta test and pay attention to details. Know what different corals look like under good conditions and depleted conditions. ✅
Every tank condition is different and corals as well, the corals in my reef gobble up spectrum pellets mix with reef roids . Always positive reactions so I will continue to feed.
Very true. We used to lived in Hawaii, I don’t have much knowledge about reeftank, but what we do is simply have coral lights, mixing salt, feeding the fish and we have sea water tank that we are using to do water change. We only do mix commercial salt for emergency. And our corals are thriving. I just learned a lot later that I thought I was doing all wrong when We moved here in the mainland and I learned the expensive ways. And now I think we were doing it just right.
thanks for sharing Jackie...ocean water is super if you can get it without contaminates from waste processing plants
I am very thankful for this video, based on serious articles and hard data, something difficult to find because unfortunately the web is full of “gurus “ and inaccurate or straight false information. I am a new suscriber to this channel. 👌🏼
Carlos Fuentes thanks Carlos!
Thank you for this, very informative. Good to see someone putting these commercial foods to the test.
glad you liked it
I totally agree with your comment towards the end of the information being given out to push us to buy more bottles. They have a N and P removal product on one shelf and a N and P additive on the shelf above. You can buy both or buy neither and end up with the same result.
ReRe yeah 2 -2 ;)
Excellent that someone posts info based on science. Nice! Thank you!
thanks!
I love your videos! Thanks for your efforts and hard work.
thanks Scott
I went to filter floss and cup. Also dont think enough people tweak their skimmer enough, by running a dryer skim you keep more of that nutrients without giving up gas exchange and if nutrients get too high then increase the skim a bit.
Good idea Evan, thanks for sharing
Facts are the way, it purges all the public assumptions and BS's...
Thanks for the video!
Dirt Rider thanks man
EBR - Evidence Based Reefing - great video, need more of this. Thank you
EBR is how i roll :) thanks !
Incredible job going over the literature. Would love to see more research with LPS and corals that have a prominent feeding response
thanks. I agree!
I do believe your final thoughts about nutrients. I have a 10 months old 10 gallon reef tank. And it’s been a wide rode learning how to be successful with it. And now that I’m not trying to deplete nitrates and phosphate in the tank, all my corals seem to be doing well
sounds like my story, but with a 55 gal tank :)
Thank you for this Educational & Enlightening Video. You have just re-affirmed was has been told to me over and over again by people who have successful Reef tanks. Natural nutrition, Live Nutrition and limited filtration is key to Coral Health. No Additives needed if you have the basics in place. For the n-th time in 25 years I'm stopping all the Additives, removing my Overfiltration Media, and getting back to adding my Live Copepods again..... To get back to Natural Coral Feeding and maintaining my Water QUALITY, not Water CLARITY..
Wally b I love the emphasis about water quality and not clarity ; the unfiltered sea water is clear, raw sea water is not! But the latter was far superior to the other for acropora
Thanks for all your effort to create such a great informative video!
Thanks for sharing!
my pleasure! thanks
Thank you for the enlightening session. Very useful information.
thanks Rav
thank you for this great video! I always learn so much from you so please keep the videos coming!
thanks!
Very well presented information and qiute surprising too. Something to think about next time we buy coral food and additives. Thank you for time to research and share.
Thanks for watching!
I don't run a skimmer for several reasons. It is an extra piece of equipment, it will take out more than fish waste, such as bacteria and other microphone and phlora which are potential coral food. I learned about the ecosystem method of a backyard pond and so I have tried to look at safekeeping in a similar way.
May be put it on a timer, most micro organisms movements up and down the water column are a few hours at dusk and dawn . This also happens to be the times coral have known to show the most growth. Runing the skimmer while your lights are on should give a tank a boost in natural food. A airstone at night for gas exchange.
Great research and scientific proof, not only feeding coral but also maintaining a saltwater reef tank. You mentioned that you saw greater extension on your coral after removing your filter sock(s). Were you able to find any positive or negative long term results from this? or have you experimented with this idea of not filtering the water for better results?
Thanks for watching Haven’t done any more experiments on this.
First and foremost Amro thank you for taking time out to discuss the valuable literature. I completely agree with your findings. Corals live and thrive in the oceans under raw seawater which has tons of nutrients and live food and this totally proves the theory you shared. With this being clear we have another problem and that is how many fishes you need which are enough to provide the required nutrient levels. Of course it will depend on different tank sizes BUT if the tank sizes limits the number of fishes you add that means it also limits the amount of food waste (nutrients) you will need. I think this theory works in much more matured tanks wherein the bacteria and all sorts of live food is populating at enough pace to feed corals. I think in the beginning you need to still provide the corals with some nutrients in terms of added food so as to allow them to establish themselves in the earlier stage which can be obtained either by artificial food sources OR feeding your fishes quite often..Likewise i have also removed filter floss and filter socks from my system and things have been looking great....once again thank you so very much for sharing this wealth of information.
Thanks Ash for your thoughts
Fascinating presentation. Can you share with us what us your current filtration set up?
Stralnikov 2 filter socks, small fuge with chaeto, skimmer, a small bag of carbon and that is it
Very innteresting, thank you!
This needs to be everywhere! I had to search to find this. I wish someone very influential would bring this to everyone attention.
thanks Xander
Tidal gardens has done this
Very helpful and impressive thank you
thanks!
Awesome information just starting a nano tank a few months a go been do small water changes once a week and my coral looked horrible all week then Thursday thur Sunday they opened everyday. It’s totally makes sense to feed the fish everyday and let their waste feed the coral just like in the sea. 🤯 I’ve been running my tank tooo clean I was just about to order coral food thank you again. I’m going to let the tank get a little dirty and see how the coral continues to look.
jay will thanks Jay.
Great video, very interesting. Products get pushed all the time, and we obey to the 2%. Interested to see what further changes you did to your tank and what affects were found
thanks Richard
Very interesting study. Thanks for sharing. I'm probably one of the few people that uses raw, unfiltered sea water in my tank. I collect it from Puget sound and it appears crystal clear to the eye so I never bothered with filtering it for any sediment or debris. The observation that I have made is that every frag added to the tank has increased polyp extension and coloration that is very noticeable within a few days and continues to improve for weeks. That said, I also feed Reef Roids once a week so I'm not sure which is responsible for the results.
interesting. Well, if your puget sound water is similar to the raw water used in the second paper's study, then it is blowing the reef roids out of the water!
A great video, I’ve been experimenting my self. I not experienced and had algie problems from trying to feed corels. Mainly zoas so far I’ve scaled everything back I now use reefroids once a week but after the tub is finished and going to only add poly booster. Since trying this everything seems to be growing great with lots off new bud forming, algie still a problem at the moment but this was defiantly what was missing from my system.
thanks!
Thank you taking the time to use research to provoke discussion. Did anyone else notice the redfield ratio was closest in raw seawater and if Artemis added P. Then that ratio would have been spot on. I also noted N in the form of aminos was valued like what we get in acropower and bio enhance. I don't feed roids for acros but do for LPS and looks better next day so very supportive of more research in this area on other corals. Personally I want to add clean water not viruses and add the right things. Maybe driving this the hobby $ could help save our reefs too.
hahah... I was thinking of doing a video on the redfield ratio next :) good points!
Joshua W do you directly spot feed your LPS or do you just add it to the water column? When I spot feed my Euphyllia they don’t seem like it very much as the tend to shrivel up for almost a week.
What you're talking about in this video reminded me of my 2-3 year stint with ZEOVIT. Essentially you strip the tank of anything and have to add it back in. While some people had success, I had nothing but constant problems. The best looking tank I ever had was when I was in college and I didn't know anything and just slapped it together. I agree our tanks are too clean. I'd love to see a study of someone using the "bio-in-a-bottle" products like prodibio and microbacter7 and their effects on coral growth.
I think we need to realize that in a 200-300 Million dollar/year industry, manufacturers will go to great lengths to have us buy their products. Bottle A -> causes a problem, Bottle B -> solves a problem; good for business
I feed oyster eggs once a week since my Zoas seem to like it. I don’t run socks either but have an oversized skimmer and big fish so lots of fish poop. Only other additive is Acropower dosed nightly. I have found that PE on Acros is definitely better when dosing it. Just my 2 cents
Thanks Mike - I did do a video on aminos, that suggested that corals may benefit from aminos as they can’t bio synthesize histidine, and this relay on their symbionts for that
@@TheBioReef thanks. I always enjoy your videos!
Those the study ever talk about polyp extension?
I see some people have polyp extension all day. Did they have polyp extension when feeding?
Just wondering if feeding at night something like reef roids would be beneficial since polyps would be out trying to catch food. Thanks.
Poking Clams 24/7 good question. The papers didn’t discuss this but in natural reefs, I know that most acropora retract their polyps in the day to minimize damage by fish like butterflies that feed on coral polyps. So the natural state is to only have polyps extension at night. In the reef thank, this can be changed if you feed consistently during the day time so long as you don’t have fish that pick at your corals during the day
@@TheBioReef So what i am wondering is if the test allowed enough time for the corals to adapt to this change in time of feeding. Raw unfiltered water from the ocean will most likely have food in it at all times. I remember reading they keeped the tanks steriled by taking debri out after feeding. Just wondering if when polyp were out, most likely during lights out if the feed at that time.
That's something I guess Ms. Jessica would have to answer. Nice video by the why.
@@Pokingclams Ok, gotcah... yes that i don't know, although i am guessing the lights were also on a dark/light cycle, so the corals would still be able to access food in the raw water at night when the lights were out. Thanks for watching!
Looking at your beautiful tank which shows such great results from whatever you’re doing:
1. I don’t feel so bad now for having NO3 at around 10 and PO4 at around 0.14 - more importantly, I don’t feel such an urge to get them lower;
2. I stopped fluffing my sandbed when my tank had it’s near-crash 10 days ago, thinking I didn’t want to stir things up and possibly add to whatever the problem was. I’m going to start doing that again daily like I used to so that whatever is organic and decomposing can become available to the corals that might eat it;
3. I’m no longer going to feel guilty for being lazy about feeding my tank with the several different types of commercial powdered foods I have (a couple of which were included in the studies you showed). Instead, see #2. 😁
4. I’m going to keep my filter cups with filter floss in them just so my sump doesn’t collect quite so much material that will accumulate and pose a potential gas-release issue when I disturb it during cleanup (which I strongly suspect was the cause of the near-crash). At the same time, I’ll continue my new routine of using a small powerhead to keep things stirred up down there to reduce said accumulation. Keeping the stuff suspended might allow some of it to return to the display tank for use by the corals....🤔
I loved this video! It has really made me think. I appreciate your analysis of the studies, putting them in the context of our own tanks.
I haven’t had much time lately to watch videos but I’m going to go and watch your first video about nitrate and Phosphate. 👍🏻👍🏻
thanks Reefgrrrl - sorry to hear about your tank crash ... perhaps i'll run into you at the niagra coral show if you are going ?
p.s.s. just saw you video; i think your assessment is bang on; i would check any equipments and magnets for signs of corrosion - sounds like a poisoning event
Yes! I am going, already booked accommodation to stay both days. Would be great to meet! 👍🏻 When are you going?
We pulled the pumps from the water change totes to check them and they’re both fine. I need to take the skimmer out to clean it, and I’m also going to check the Finnex heater that’s at the back of the sump. It looked fine two weeks ago when I tested my new VCA vacuum attachment to clean the sump floor (video to come) but I want to examine it closely. We have scheduled maintenance on the return pump next weekend, so I’m also going to remove the UV sterilizer pump and check it. I also should check the nano reactor pump, even though it’s only a couple of months old. I’ll try and do that tomorrow if I have time.
At this point I am seriously wondering if it’s something leaching from equipment because I’d have expected some of the corals (the euphyllia for example, and the montis) to have started to show even some minute signs of improvement - and they’re actually still declining. I told my husband I’m hoping it IS a piece of equipment because then it won’t have been my fault...😬 Haha, but it probably was...🤷♀️
@@Reefgrrl save a 100 mls or so of tank water - you can consider sending them for an ICP test to figure out what the contamination is; Aquarium Depot in Toronto sells the triton ICP tests than can now be sent to Quebec for analysis with results coming a week or two later; a lot faster than a year ago where the tests had to be sent to Germany with results coming a month or two later
Excellent video. In the video you said you use reef roids and then at the end you said youre thinking of stopping. Just wondering if you have stopped and also if youre going to do another update in say 30 days to show any changes?
I inconsistently added reef roids, but only for the past couple of month or so, and even then, it was once a week whenever i could remember. I decided to give it up; i doubt it will have an effect because i essentially went through about a year of not feeding corals at all without any negative consequences on growth. but i'll certainly update the channel if things go wonky with the tank
Great video. I wish I had this video 10 years ago when I had pale acros and friends would tell me to add more GFO to “color” them up. Buahahahaaa
thanks Trevor
Say No to the GFO!
The one comment I would make is that we all know that SPS corals do not respond well to changes in their environment. Light, chemistry or nutrition. It usually takes an SPS at least 3 months (usually much more) to really start growing after we get them into our tank. As such I believe the value of 45 day or 12 weeks experiment which essentially changed the corals nutrition is of limited value.
interesting perspective, thanks for sharing
Vasco Jardim - I agree with this 100%. Not to mention... there’s too many unknowns. How old was the test tank? What was the water volume? What were the starting numbers? Was there filtration on the tank? Fish population? wild corals? For me there’s not enough information to draw a conclusion. There’s so many ways to run an experiment like this that would all yield different results. We all know that 2 tanks will vary even with the exact same setups, water, salt, etc.
What a great video!
Perhaps someone can answer a question of mine: I've got a 6 month old reef, lots of fish (which I feed generously every day) and I've seen great coral growth, especially with SPS. The only issue is on some of the rocks GHA has gotten up to 0.5" thick. Turbo snails and hermits won't touch it. Is this just a side effect of a maturing tank? I'm assuming once the coraline algae covers the rocks with time the GHA will be less prevalent. I would appreciate any advice you may have!
Are you sure its GHA ... could it be bryopsis ?
@@TheBioReef Macroscopically it does not resemble bryopsis, but I will confirm with a mic sometime tomorrow. I know nuisance algae is expected in a new reef but I would like to strike a balance between feeding the SPS growth with 'dirty' water and still having the rockwork look good. I am beginning to think it's not possible in a tank as immature as mine (I used 50/50 live rock to dry rock; suspected GHA is teeming on the live rock only).
@@wildlife3083 Gotcha; well, the key to running a 'dirty' tank without a lot of algae issues is to have a health and diverse herbivore population. A tang helps if your tank has space for it. Tuxedo urchins are great. Also note that it very common for new tanks to have some algae here and there. As you get more corraline on your rocks, your'll find that you'll see less GHA and more of the film algae that is easier to clean by the CUC.
In my experience I have noticed
That unfiltered water does have a positive on corals.... this is very helpful information thank you!..
thanks Libi - glad you enjoyed
Hi my friend,Thanks a lot for this very enriching articles summary!What would be your recommendations for having not "so clean" water reef tank - regarding mechanical and biological filtration, any insights regarding our skimmers? are those maybe too efficient? You mention that after removing filter sock you saw some additional acropora growth... As mentioned in my previous messages I seek for finding ways to "soil" my too clean water and beside of having increasing the number of food distributions and have a more diverse food (that is doesn't seem to really influencing) should it be only by manually adding nutrients as P or N?
for now - i don't have any concrete answers for you. But my feeling is that running a take with some levels of detectable nitrates and phosphates and introducing organisms that can possibly spawn in your tank (providing food for tank inhabitants) may be a good idea. Not sure about effect of skimmers, but cutting down on mechanical filtration also seems like it can only help
Great video! I got two questions. Have you stopped dosing particulate foods and how do you feel about liquid foods like AA and coral vitalizer etc. I know this will be your personal opinion, but I'm interested!
Yes, i've stopped doing reef roids after i read the second paper. I used to dose acropower aminos two years ago, but it coincided with my dino outbreak, so i stopped doing that for good!
@@TheBioReef cool. I think I will try removing my filter floss and stop doing the powder foods.
Nice study but there is two point i feel a bit obscure:
- in the first study they use like 10 times the recommended dosing of the coral food but they dont mezsure the waste of nutrients in the water like nitrates. Which an increase of this parameter directly affect the growth of the corals. It would have been nice to include it in the study.
- in the second one you talk about the result on the millepora. Ok thoses résults are revelant and clear. But we dont know if this millepora is a wild caught / ocean farmed or aquarium farmed. Let me explain: we often notice a lot of time of acclimation on certain corals to our aquarium water, so it maybe not the result of the feeding we notice but the result of the stress. I know this is complexe but this point is questionnable too.
Anout your conclusion, it really depends, nutrients are good for corals i mean really, and i'm a heavy feeder too. But its really a balance between the feeding of your fishes and the feeding of your corals. I would have been less "direct" into the conclusion.
Cheers
Hi. thanks for sharing your thoughts. the corals in the second study were wild caught, but were allowed to acclimate in the experimental tanks for a month or so. i don't think it was a matter of stress because they even grew just in the control filtered sea water.
@@TheBioReef a month is a bit short for some species. Especially australian ones. I used to do natural sea water water changes it is good but very risky in some aspects. Polluants and so on...
Based on the way the experiment was conducted. I wouldnt expect the phytoplankton based foods to do anything for the corals they dont really eat phyto its ment to feed sponges,tunicates, feather dusters. But most importantly copepods, isopods and amphipods etc. The seawater is already full of zooplankton and microplankton. I think tanks that use skimmers and very fine mechanical filtration results would be very different and could benefit from dosing.
Great video once again. So difficult to find peer reviwed data that is specific to closed sytems. However if one searches more proficiently (I use research gate with my academic logon) there has been very interesting data available for a number of years. In my reef store I use the motto “Modern Sustainablr Reefing” All of the advice and products I recommend are based on scientific understanding. However the most popular products I sell are those that I can give no recommendation. If a supplier is not willing to divulge the basic principles and constituants of their product, Then the only evidance one can make an informed decision on is anecdotal evidance. Unfortuntely anecdotal evidance often contains wide variations in results. Some will se posative reaction some neutral and some negative. This is down to a lack of understanding of the complex nature of closed sytems. Unless one can reproduce results consistantly across a wide range of controls then the data is virtually useless. This is why scientific reviewed data is so much mor valuable. Subscribed to your channel and will recommend to my customers. I just hope they will take your advice, as they seem to be reluctant to take mine. Instead they are convinced by manufacturers and articles that the newest product is the answer. This in itself can lead to brand switching and instability. You hit the nail on the head with the second paper. In marine biology we understand the vital importance of bacteria with regards coral metabolics. Bacteria is the area we should all be looking at. Thankfull Dr Cristoph in Austria is working along side Aquabihome with the facility to DNA test our aquarium waters. Keep up the great videos, Best wishes Tony Thompson, Sustainable Marine Aquatics.
With any coral, consistency is key, so I wonder how researchers can generalize results when they are using one set of water, light, and tank (live rock, fish, other inverts, etc.) parameters. I’m glad you discussed the deficiency and confounding variable problem at the end of your video. I am curious if perhaps research into coral metabolism would yield even better results. Does anyone know which enzymes different corals exist and how, exactly, they digest food, be it live or synthetic?
Jeffry Anderson I’ll look into this. Re. Consistency / I agree that is important but that factor was across the board, so shouldn’t lead to any biases
Thanks for a VERY well researched video. I have been feeding dried coral foods and I'm generally disappointed with color and growth. As a result of this video, I am considering switching to live food (e.g. Algae Barn's products). It immediately raises the question of skimming. I think I'll try feeding live and leaving my skimmer off for 12 house, then run it the remaining 12 hours each day. Thoughts?
thanks John. Regarding skimming, you can figure out the degree to which a skimmer will remove your live food as a function of how much water its pump is pulling relative to your total volume and display to sump turnover rate. I may only be a theoretical risk, but you would need to do some calculations to figure that out.
As long as you keep your nitrates and phosphates parameters on the low end you are good to go. I never do water changes, my skimmer usually is on but I lower it's level so I get the oxigen benefit and PH. To control Nitrates I use Debitrate reactor and PO3 I use Rowaphos. I always had success this way and I keep things simple.
here is to keeping it simple. I am ok with low, but I feel the ultra low nutrient movement is a bit misguided
@Oscar Bedoya New studies suggest that the water should not be ultra clean and that 0.2 phosphates are actually needed. This is supported also on Reef2Reef and reef Central.
Thanks amro how often do you clean your sump? And how do you do it? Thanks
MereReef I do it approximately every 6 month - I don’t actually do any scraping or cleaning the glass of the sump, I usually run a couple of powerheads to stir detritus and then either do a large water change from the sump or run a pump that cycles sump water through a filter.
AmroAzul TV
th-cam.com/video/RFJaR0s4Qcg/w-d-xo.html
In this video i noticed when your nitrates went to about 10 your sps browned out do you still agree woth this or think maybe it was to do with the fact the nitrates went high but too quickly that caused the sps to brown out?
So where do we draw the line? How much filtration is enough? What then is a sweet spot combination in filtration? Also, where is the threshold in PPM for Nitrates and Phos where coral growth suffers? Watched both of your videos and they mention elevated levels but what exactly are those levels.
Thanks for the comments; it is hard to come up with good rules because different systems have different abilities to export nutrients, and system age also plays a role. I've seen successful reef tanks with nitrates ~ 10 ppm and phosphates at 0.1 to 0.2 ppm. i think the main points to take from this summary is that zero or ultra low nutrients are not necessary ideal
Very good video. I've read the first article a long time ago and from personal experience being an sps nut, having 0 NO3 or PO4 is not good. I've been dosing nitrates and amino acids back into the system and using biopellets minimally just the manage spikes but still provide some bacterial source.
thanks!
Thank you for this Educational & Enlightening Video.
thanks!
I used natural seawater collected from shore for my old tank but stopped for my new one but might start to add it again because of this vid think you
Patrick Clark nice - how did the tank do with natural sea water ?
Just got into the hobby. I started my tank a little less than 3 months ago with raw sea water from my local beach and dive spot here at peanut Island in Palm Beach Florida (just because it's easier for me than mixing salt mix into rodi water) and have been doing most of my water changes with raw sea water. Results so far have been great. For filtration, I'm Using filter floss, carbon, purigen, and no skimmer. Already have significant Coraline algae growth all over the tank and my SPS, LPS, and Softies are also doing great.
thats great! i would love to be able to pick up natural sea water
@@TheBioReef Yes, and will also add that the 24 hours after a water change with raw sea water the coral open up bigger than normal and in general seem more lively. I do not see the same results when I do water changes with regular rodi water/salt mix.
I've honestly never heard of anyone who grabs natural seawater for their tank have issues with said tank, unless they get something they didn't mean to pick up with the water. They seem to grow corals super fast. "Gee, I wonder why!" - Area genius says. :)
Do you run the water through a micron or anything before you use it out of curiosity?
@@kyle9401 they seem to grow corals Superfast, gee I wonder why... not sure what you meant here?
@@bigadventure3797 Because it only makes sense that corals do best in natural seawater, where they are found :)
Thanks for sharing , is there any study known about the effects of feeding with phytoplankton?
dekopstuk not sure ... will have a look
I just uploaded a video of P. damicornis feeding on Artemia. I think they hunt more active than Acropora hyacinthus. Just wanted to share.
Excellent thanks
would love to see a video about carbon dosing . because its supposed to reduce pho4 and no3 by being consumed by bacteria , witch on the other hand is supposed to increase the micro diversity in the tank .
thanks! will add it to my 'to investigate' list :) My quick comment on carbon dosing in that is unnatural - in a sense that in real reef, there isn't a bit influx of alcohol or vinegar to boost bacterial populations, but certainly a topic worthy of investigation.
Wow, so nice to have interesting informative videos on youtube. I have used reef roids with my LPS and found growth and colouration changes... I noticed the research focused exlusively on SPS... Wonder if theyd respond differently?
you are absolute right. i think the researchers focused on SPS because the relative difficulty of stoney corals vs. LPS in aquaculture. So the research can't be extrapolated to LPS. But as an aside, i've had a hammer and a torch go from 1 head to 10+ in about 2.5 years without directly feeding them [ at least not directly] so i think they can do just fine without the added food
Tomithy how much do you feed and in more detail what kind of changes have you seen? I’ve been feeding mine once a week for a month now by just adding it to the water column. This past week I did direct feeding and I feel they’re not expanding as well as they used to. Almost more shriveled up on some heads even, though all my parameters are still the same as they have been. No color change either.
Over filtration yes, I find it funny we put all this filtration, skimmers etc on our tanks, then we go and BUY all the minerals etc that the filtration has taken out and we put them back in our tanks, only for the filtration to taken out again, there's got to be a better and cheaper way to keep a marine tank.
Tony Sanger totally agree. Thanks for your thoughts
I have a strong feeling a fish bowl type scenario would be way more effective then any of us would think
Bravo! science based evidence FTW. This answered my debate for a protein skimmer on my nano many thanks!
Norm G thanks Norm
And there’s me thinking 🤔 I’m doing it wrong with two canister filters and a uv 😂great Tank👍 .Andrew 🇬🇧
Andrew Moth hahhaha - nature is doing it right, we are all just different versions of wrong ;)
Very interesting! Thanks for share
Great video, what do you feed your tank?
I used to do reef roids once a week, but i've stopped that since i read the second paper. right now, only fish get fed (1x mysis; 2x pellets via autofeeder)
@@TheBioReef Nice, I've been looking for a good pellet for an auto feeder
i use the ehime
@@vsreef1042 ick preventor
Great information. We need more scientific peer reviewed articles.
thanks!
Thanks for the vid! Have you seen any literature on amino acids?
thanks! no - haven't seen any research on Aminos
Just watch the hall thing very ing to know u should do a fallow up, will be removing the filter pads out lol
Great information. Thank you so much.
Bon Koo Thanks!
hi, what about ur filtration system what u doing now without socks,one video of what u use under the tank thanks
Here is a run down of my tank and husbandry th-cam.com/video/VzZzjvu2Gds/w-d-xo.html and here is the latest tank update th-cam.com/video/kiQs_BE1WeE/w-d-xo.html
Overall, I wonder if directly feeding the end product ie the macromolecules like Amino Acids (red seas AB+ or acropower), peptids etc would be more beneficial than feeding corals foods such as reef roids to start with.
Also the addition of "live" phytoplankton. Not the bottled stuff.
Good video. Very informative.
Im having problems with acro growth at the moment. They look great but a bunch of them are barely growing. I do water changes every 2 weeks. I feed them once a week with reef rouds but not every week cuz I dont really see or think that they actually eat it. I have tons of micro organisms in my fuge. I e got 2 or 3 kinds of pods that i can see with my eyes. I have these little shrimp that look like mysis shrimp. Also amphipods, limpets, baby snails, like 2 or 3 different kinds, some muscles witch idk whefe they came from. I hope you see this and can possibly give me a little input or advice. Id greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
Hi LJ Is it a new tank ? growth can be slow at first, and it takes a while for things to show. what are your other parameters and what kind of lights do you run?
@@TheBioReef Its been set up since July. But most my rock and corals were from my previous tank I had before. My acros are all encrusting just not branching out.
@@LJsReef thats typical for sps. encrusting is growing, so i wouldn't worry about it and try to fix things. If they look great and are encrusting, then keep things stable and they will be full sized colonies in no time!.
Can going sock-less be the way to healthier corals??? Awesome and informative 👍🏾👍🏾
right? more stuff suspended in the water for corals to consume
I haven't ran a filter sock on my tank for a few years now. I just have a refugium with chateo and that's it.
Always an interesting topic. 😎👍
really good watch, nice work!
Thanks Tony
hey man
who much time in a week you feed your corals ?
and what mount (grams) of food you put in tank ?
I used to feed them once a week; half a teaspoon of reefroids. I didn't do this consistently however; some weeks I would feed, some weeks I didn't
I would love to see same material concerning only LPS corals...
Rafa von Iceberg yes - it’s a bit biased
Yes! Please do an LPS experiment 🙏
what lights r u using
Radions - here is more info on how i run them
I'm curious about live phytoplankton ? Your thoughts.
JESSE ARMSTRONG not sure... haven’t used it, and haven’t seen research on it.
That was super informative, thank you
thanks!
Was the sps wild caught or captive frags that have been aqua cultured. Wild vs aqua cultured sps have very different ways they go about feeding. Wild Colonies tends to only feed at night due to predeters during the day. so the live food that stays in the system longer would have a better response than a man made food thats being filtered out. Aqua cultured Frags/colonies dont have the same threats more or less during the day since we watch what we introduce into the tank. So they are more inclined to stay out to feed thru out the day, what we call polyp extension. Also did they study the effects on lps and softies? Lps for one responds a lot more to feeding than any sps will. Same goes with zoa's. Also target feeding is by far the better way to feed since you dont waste as much as just dumping it .
the second paper used frags from wild colonies. But the food was left overnight, so they would have had enough contact with the food overnight. none of the studies targeted LPS or softies - presumably because they are much more hardy and not as tricky as stoney corals
@@TheBioReef how long have the frags been cut? As someone else mentioned in the another comment this will have an effect on growth rate as well. What kind of flow was in systems? With out adequate flow to keep the food suspended and moving in the water column. I'm not saying you and they are wrong but there are some many other variables. Also if feeding didn't work then coral farms like wwc wouldn't grow coral. they feed a man made mixture about every hour. Sps are not tricky, They just require more attention and stability.
they were acclimated for a month before the experiment started
Thank you for such a great video, I've been thinking about this too recently and think the foods have come about from the old theory that everyone needed 0 nitrates and phosphates, now days I think that we are almost sterilizing the water with skimmers, carbon and filter media amd wonder how much of it is needed, I do believe that a natural phyto diet and aminos are of benefit though
thanks for sharing your thoughts Phil
what are your water values of your aquarium. I also want SPS in my aquarium. I already tried this twice, but unfortunately this did not work. Do you have good tips?
i typically keep alk between 8 and 9, ca between 1400 and 1450, mag around 1400, Nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm and phosphates between 0.2 and 0.1 ppm. good luck!
@@TheBioReef thankz for the tip. i go to try this of it will work for me. CA you mean calcium?
Bryan Vernooy good luck. Yes Ca is calcium
@@TheBioReef did you mean cal between 400-450 amd phos 0.02-0.1?
@@insectkiller2005 Cal is between 400 to 450. I actually like to keep Phos at 0.1 to 0.15 (no 0.01 or 0.02)
Great info thanks for sharing 👍
Quite an eye opener.
you can find out more info on my system here
th-cam.com/video/VzZzjvu2Gds/w-d-xo.html
Fack I just spent a ton of money on coral stuff lol. But I bought reef roids, amino acids, and all for reef by tropic Marin. I'm going to not run my skimmer for a couple weeks and see if I notice more extension and coloration. And then do the same with the products I bought. I'm not so much worried about growth that I am coloration. I know the reef hobby is about patience so they can grow at their normal rate I don't intend to speed it up
Joel Gomez tell us how it works out Joel
Hi very nice video mate good point about feed the coral 👍
Thanks Sylverster
very good information..
thanks
Solid information... thank you for doing this video!
Thanks Laura
This is awesome info. This has big impacts as to the equipement I get and how I want to run my tank. I like the idea of growing live phyto down the track but this is great backup for those, like me, who see WWC feeding fish so often and not bothering with the coral.
I do note this seemed like SPS specific. Also a lot of those Millis are collected near shore in Australia get all that runoff from the cane fields. Still I think your probably onto something and are starting the next trend in the industry will be bad for coral food producers ;)
thanks! yes both studies focused on SPS.
Thank you for the Video... Very enlightening
thanks
Great Video! Thank you
thanks
Great information, thanks for sharing!
thanks!
I feed reef nutrition foods, phyto and rotifeast! Hoping they help, maybe not, just another way for us to spend more money, I do believe copepods and such are really good, started a refuge a few weeks ago,!
I herd reef roids is same as reef pulse powdered copepods main ingredient I use ab+ reef energy and reef pulse
Good to know - thanks for sharing
How is it shocking that powdered food made by some guys in their basement wouldn't beat water straight from the living oceans where corals have thrived for thousands of years in spite of humans?
It's because coral reefs are nutrient deserts.
Because humans usually make more nutritious food for special purpose. Like special foods for patients or astronauts beat any natural food in nutrition value. It’s good to know that these coral foods products are not so potent.