How To Fly An IFR Departure Procedure With A "Climb Via"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- When ATC issues you a "climb via" on a departure procedure, what are you supposed to do? ExpressJet gave us a jet for a day (how cool is that?!) to go fly a departure procedure and film it.
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This is the kind of content any student or even just an enthusiast craves and can NEVER get enough of.
Thank you, Boldmethod!
Agreed, TY Boldmethod!
Enjoyed the video! A lot of good info. Thanks for sharing.
Really nicely done. A small addendum on what "RNAV to TAPPS," means on the takeoff clearance... it's not really related to the transition being flown. It's actually an ATC requirement they state the first fix on an RNAV departure when using simultaneous departures from parallel runways. ATL and LAX are great examples of this where the RNAV fixes for a given SID actually vary based on the runway being used. It's essentially a check and balance to make sure that two aircraft launching in quick succession on parallel RNAV departures actually navigate to the correct fix when parallel runways are in use.
Thanks buddy, I was wondering why they need to emphasize that again.
Great video, would love to see more of that ExpressJet flight.
There will be more in the coming weeks!
Geoffrey Gallaway Another great TH-cam page for flight is Premiere1Driver.
I am still in the ab initio stage for my PPL, but I still found this video incredibly interesting and very comprehensive even for someone such as myself with no real IFR knowledge. Thanks for the video!
Nice to see a practical example of a complex SID and Via.
Always good for those in the early learning phase to see examples of the extremes, takes out some of the mystery and reduces the chance of deer in the headlights. At the simple end I have one locally that is: Turn to 063 and climb to 3000, expect vectors in 2 minutes or 6 miles. Lost com, climbing turn left direct to VOR continue climbing in hold at the VOR to 4200.
I’m a new CFI and you guys’ videos and articles have helped me immensely. Thank you!
Very often pilots will climb to the assigned altitude, when issued climb via, and fail to abide by the intermediate altitudes indicated at the waypoints, giving the controllers heart failure and giving themselves a pilot deviation. A reminder when you hear "Climb VIA" think "VIA=Verify Intermediate Altitudes"
really loving these walktgroughs, the pacing is on point and slow enough to comprehend. I suspect your audience would eat up this sort of blow by blow commentary on lots of "routine" flights, even just f9r passengers to be able to understand what happens on commercial flights. great work!
make more videos like this and life as a expressjet pilot
Your new educational-approach looks great. Real-time examples.
Really great video, perfect explanations!
The pilot riding the right seat has some terrible phraseology habits. Beautiful video though! Great film making skills ... impressive. I take it you work for ExpressJet?
That’s what I was thinking... I’m not a pilot but I listen to atc enough to listen you don’t really talk like that.
I absolutely strongly disagree. His 'phraseology habits'/verbiage is spot-on! He is clear, concise and professional. He gets the readbacks and information transmitted without cluttering up ATC. As I watched the video, one of the first thoughts I had, was 'wow that guy is smooth with his comms'! (And yes, I am a pilot)
@@Dave5500 both times he failed to repeat the runway number and the full call sign. Later he continued to give only partial read backs that left out key parts of the assignments such a the amended climb-via clearance. It appears to be due to complacency and this issue has caused several accidents in the past. I’ve heard several crews over the years getting chewed by ATC for this. I’m not going to explain why these items are extremely important because you’re a pilot and I presume you know this already. Just my 2 cents as an airline Captain and safety auditor.
So awesome! You guys should have like a conference or talk at UND!!!
Thanks Keegan!
I love this. Honestly, I should stop binging on videos like this - it's gonna be a long time until I get another opportunity to learn how to fly.
I can't help myself though. I love the information in this video, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Really enjoyed that video. Please show some more. I'll be watching for them.
Briefing the SID on the ground, then as you go in the air, is real good advice.
Had to look up what FRA meant @ 6:19 (flap retract altitude)
Good job explaining how this works! Thanks!
Nice video! I wouldn't mind getting more SIDs in pistons.
Has anyone ever caught them busting 250kts at 8:00?
Great video! It's very important aways keep in mind about the performance of your acft. For that E-jet is quite easy but for some departures a high perfomance acft is required. So if you're flying a single engine you could be in trouble very quick as you said. Cheers
so the E-jet isn't high performance?
“4573 on the box”, the F.O. from ExpressJet said, after reading back the clearance to ATC... on the box is not the proper way to answer, specially if you are a professional pilot.
Dude chill... I've heard pilots say "in/on the box" before when referencing the transponder, are *you* a pilot? Because if not, then who are you to say that?
As an airline pilot, who flies internationally, trust me. Nobody cares. We tailor our language to who we’re talking to.
If I’m with a bunch of good ole’ southern boys working Houston center I’m going to talk to them differently than if I’m flying to a non-English speaking country. If I’m going to Mexico it’s all slow, clear, ICAO standard phraseology. With Houston Center I can have fun on frequency. They get it. I get it. Other pilots get it. It’s not a big deal.
At the same time I hear mexican pilots and controllers speaking in Spanish to one another and laughing on frequency. They’re doing their thing just like how I do back in the States. I won’t ever complain about them speaking their native tongue to each other.
This was very helpful as I start to transition into my IR
Piss-poor radio work... I know it's pretty common in the 121 world, but it still makes me cringe. Not using the full call-sign on read backs nor stating the runway assignment for takeoff. As a captain, I wouldn't have let that video leave the flight deck...
amen
You did such a good job of explaining things that my only question was were they already going out for a proficiency flight or they did this just to make a video? Which also shows ExpressJet knows what they are doing...
They did the flight just for us so we could film the procedure. And they pre-coordinated with ATC so we could get the climb via. Very cool!
Excellent tutorial - Good work.
Thanks!
That was awesome! Great video gentlemen!
this was an awesome and informative video. Thanks
beatiful video, the concept is wonderful.
Very nicely done
Thanks John!
Excellent video 😎👍
You should make a video on how to come up with the $40,000+ required to add an instrument/commercial/multi/CFI/ATP to a private license when you've been turned down for loans. So fed up with aviation. There's a pilot shortage? Gee maybe if I didn't have to pay more than the cost of a new BMW just to get the job I could apply.
Cole Byre hmm... like what a 4 year degree costs?
Cole Byre I was in the same situation, it sucks
@@BOHICA_ to be fair, you also need a 4 year degree to get into the airlines
@@stephensantilli9690 negative. Totally untrue. You don't need a 4 year degree at all for most airlines. Very useful and will help, but not at all required.
All I want to know is how they let you in the cockpit!
Excellent,as usual!
Thank you so much. This helped me alot.
SUBSCRIBED! Good stuff!
Is that Dan Rumley in the right seat of that RJ?
Loving your vids!
LONG LIVE JETLINK!
Good morning! Enjoyed this video over coffee. :-)
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching Chris!
great video! You've got a new subscriber!
Jepps Flight Deck Pro baby!
Great video ! thanks
Very nice, thanks.
God almighty.... the callsign is "Acey 9115". Not "9115".
You are allowed to abbreviate callsigns if there is no similar callsign on freq.
Chicago O'Hare single-engine can't even depart let alone land unless it's an emergency it's a such a busy ass air space
I just wanna get some clarification on something, in your clearance to SAF ATC cleared you to "climb via the SID except climb and maintain" and you interpreted this as a lateral clearance with an unrestricted climb but to me this sounds like they were just assigning a top altitude. I believe that if they wanted an unrestricted climb they would have cleared you via the departure and said climb and maintain without saying climb via the SID. What are your opinions on this? Also I do recognize that there are no crossing restrictions on this SID so it would have been unrestricted to the top altitude either way but I believe that given the clearance you received if it had altitude restrictions you would have been required to comply with them.
Jake, great question because that clearance was confusing.
In our SAF case, they initially stated "climb via the SID, except..." but then said "Correction, climb and maintain 8000" at 3:22. The "climb and maintain" clears us for an unrestricted climb to 8000. If they were issuing a top altitude and wanted us to climb via the SID, they would have said "Climb via the SID, except maintain 8000" or "climb via the SID, maintain 8000" since this SID doesn't have a published top altitude. We heard the "correction" clearly so we didn't request clarification.
SIDs are one of the top sources for pilot deviations - and the terminology is a large part of the problem. "Climb and maintain" and "Climb via the SID, except maintain" sound about the same - and they're often confused. And you'll hear a "correction, ..." pretty often. If you're in doubt, ask.
+Aleks Udris oh ok, I did not notice the "correction" until you pointed that out. I appreciate the clarification!
So from what I understand, you use the climb via chart altitudes on each leg, until you reach your top altitude either assigned by the tower, or the IFR chart? Or if assigned an altitude by clearance, do you climb to that altitude as quickly as possible?
If your assigned an altitude it overrides the "Climb Via SID" and you can disregard the altitudes on the SID.
Sometimes they will be more specific and say something like "cleared for abc procedure, cross fix wxyzz at or below 5000" So you have the info ahead of time but also that you don't start to climb too early.(similar on approaches "cross mnopq at or above 2000, cleared ILS 23")
Great video! How did you guys convince express jet to go on that flight? Must have been very expensive? Subscribed!
They are basically providing them free promotion. Expressjet has more to gain than to loose
Should I tell them about my "150" time?
xcellent vid guys!! i thought "acey" was callsign for rj flights under delta colors, but the erj in vid waz wearing ubited xpress. am i wrong?
Sean Buller acey is the call sign for all expressjet operated flights, regardless of the name they are operating under.
I'm sorry but please learn how to spell
Was the Express Jet flight a part 91 flight?
Cris - It was.
Did you guys have to get an FAA permit to film inside an airliner during sterile cockpit? I know it's a big no no.
Probably a Part 91 leg it sounds like.
Mr. Jim Campbell
I Live in Corpus😋😋(corpus christi) corpus is a short term for corpus christi
Very poor RT from the first officer…
3:09, is that Swayne Martin????????
hahahahaa, look at the left bottom at 7:09
Don't see anything
Annoying FO
Is that Jim C? Thats the worst departure briefing I have ever heard! "Multiple altitudes to watch out for"??? Jesus man....
but did u get FAA permission to film....? ;)
Exc. video.
Gosh this radio work is some of the worst I've ever heard. There's no excuse. They're professionals. Do it right.
Why can't the First Officer say his full callsign, or his callsign at all during any transmission he makes? Hell he doesn't even say the runway during the takeoff clearance. Too bad ExpressJet couldn't get you someone competent enough to talk on the radio. All you up and coming guys please say your callsign, and don't be like the guy in this video. It's beyond obnoxious. At least his "vocal fry" isn't too over the top.
Acey is the callsign for Expressjet.
Which the f/o didn't say most of the time, instead he just says the flight number
But honestly the thing that annoyed me most is he kept saying "with you"..
He did say his callsign, and yes with you isn't proper, and so what it's redundant it's not dangerous. What are you an FAA agent?
Go back to policing the guard frequency.
20 seconds in and you didn't repeat back the runway to line up on or the runway you were cleared to take off from... It's important to read that back for the controller...
Very good!
Hi Swayne, lol
Great video! It would be nice to have a video that talks about climb/descent planning and how to calculate required climb gradients and rates to meet altitude restrictions along a SID or STAR.
Nice job on the filming and explanation. Wish I could've had stuff like this when I was a student.
Thanks!
I understood sids pretty well but for anyone new to flying IFR this will help a ton! Plus it will go to the top for searches probably with 2-3 weeks! Keep these amazing videos uo
Thanks for watching John!
What app was on the co-pilots tablet?
They use Jeppesen Flight Deck Pro Bryant.
Ok, thanks
Well done on the video. Just wondering where you got the suction cup mounts with the ball swivel. I just got my first GoPro a few months ago and love it, but have already run into problems getting the camera to point exactly where I want it while using the GoPro suction cup mount. Thanks.
Great video..............
These videos are probably among the best instructional videos I’ve found
So sad ExpressJet isn’t flying 121 anymore. It was a great company to work for.
Great info! Helps me understand for my instrument chrckride. Thanks!
Very informative video! thank you!
amazing..they make it look so easy
good stuff boys. subbed
Great video, thanks for posting- question- "what if like you stated its Hot and your Heavy & don't make the correct Altitudes before reaching a fix? can you go faster than 250 below 12,000ft to reach your fix at right altitude? Or do you simply inform ATC that you're correct altitude so they can be able to direct other traffic nearby around you? Last question: I understand "highways airways for jets to follow a path along" but where do they get these so-called "Fixes" or waypoints from that make up a SID or STAR? they're not VORs, meaning without GPS it'll be almost impossible to navigate through. Are SID waypoints simply GPS COORDINATES?
Meaning if I'm using either SKYVECTOR or SIMBRIEF- unless it automatically provides a SID waypoints. I don't see them while say using SKYVECTOR Maps, unless I type in that exact waypoint name. Its not like one can visually see them on a map to choose if one doesn't know these exact names or GPS coordinates etc.
Exceeding 250 knots below 10,000 is generally done for safety, not for climb performance ... if your stall speed is 240, you don't want to be too close to it in your climb. If you're not going to manage a crossing restriction, best to tell ATC ASAP (and ASAP can include before departure). All GPS waypoints consist of GPS coordinates, fixes are initially defined as distance and radial from specified navaid(s) but GPS systems just treat them as coordinates too.
Easiest thing to do is say “unable”.
I’ve had numerous times where due to strong tailwinds, distractions, ATC foul ups, etc where I won’t make an assigned restriction despite my best efforts. (Spoilers, flaps, even sometimes deploying landing gear early)
I just tell them “Unable this restriction, do you need the speed or the altitude?”
If he says the altitude I can always dive the airplane to it, but will exceed the speed limit. If he wants the speed I can always pitch the nose up and slow it down, but I’ll be high. If he really needs both and I can’t make it happen he can just give me a vector off route to get into the right energy state.
Swept wing jets can be difficult to get down and slow down sometimes. Especially with high density altitude and/or tailwinds. The problem of losing energy is much more common with jets. Gaining energy and climbing to meet restrictions is rarely a problem. But if it does become a problem the same principals apply. Just tell them you can’t do it, what do they want you do instead. There’s no rules being violated here or anything just because Mother Nature dictates it’s impossible.
To answer the question about fixes, we can identify just about all fixes with RNAV (GPS). Most SIDs require you to have an RNAV system. Many fixes, but not all, can be identified using VOR/DME or crossing two VOR radials. But this is very, very, rarely done in the airline world. Every pilot knows how to do it but it just almost never happens (in the USA).
Flying IFR without a GPS isn’t a big deal. Even in a jet. We train how to do it in the simulator and I’ve done it IRL many times in smaller GA airplanes. You do become a little more reliant on ATC assistance though.
great information.
awesome channel!
Wow great video
?What did the ATC say at 0.12 and what does it mean
Reda - They said "RNAV to TTAPS". "TTAPS" is the first fix on the RITAA Five Departure. The "RNAV to TTAPS" instruction tells us to fly via RNAV, or "area navigation," direct to TTAPS after takeoff. "Area navigation" or "RNAV" is a generic term for any navigation system that allows us to navigate by latitude/longitude waypoints. GPS is the most common form, but most turbine aircraft have flight management systems that combine GPS with VOR and other navigation systems.
What does TTAPS mean and the others?
They are GPS (RNAV) waypoints. Which all have five letter names.
Anybody else recognize the other pilot in the Cirrus?
Mike Kading Swayne?
thats what i thought
It’s insipid and useless radio phraseology from regional pilots that continues to negatively affect primary students. “In the box...” Really? That F.O. Has awful radio habits. As a CFI, I wouldn’t let him in any cockpit.
That's ridiculous. His verbiage was clear and concise. He got his communications across w/o cluttering up ATC. "In the box..." is horrible to you...Really?
Dave5500 Yes, really. Phraseology like that is non-standard, so it ends up being confusing to students (who are tomorrow’s pilots). Imagine if you did this in law enforcement; just kind of “make it up” using cutesy, made-up phrases like, “in the box,” and “with a flash,” and “Dixie” instead of “Delta,” or “unicorn” instead of “Uniform.” You’d be run out of the department. Why should we accept this in aviation- an exacting and procedure-driven endeavor that affects thousands of lives? This is lazy and unprofessional. The AIM exists for a reason. Proper phrases are there for a reason. When professionals throw that out the window and say stupid crap, it makes students think it’s ok to make it up as well. Or to not learn it correctly. Or that using proper phraseology is somehow “uncool.” These kids look up to pilots like this. And when they use crappy phraseology it perpetuates a lack of professionalism. It creates the environment we have today where more and more commercial pilots are using really stupid, made-up phrases and words. I hear it all the time. And explaining it to a student for the 80th time is tiring. Use the right words. It’s as easy-if not easier- than crap like “in the box.” What box? What’s a “fish finder? What’s a flash? Is 11-point-five an altitude? Why did he say “unicorn?” And the list goes on.
@@singermcl1 I see your point. I think student pilots should learn the proper verbiage (as should everyone), BUT at this pilots experience level, saying "11-point-five" instead of 'One-one-thousand-five hundred' gets the altitude/point across in a quick and safe way that's not cluttering up the frequency and ATC. I don't feel like it's a safety concern (again, at that level). I compare it to: When you are teaching a student to climb out in a C-172, of course you teach Vy 73 and Vx 59 (or whatever your POH calls for), but in the real world, a more experienced pilot holding 75 or 60 on climb out isn't something to nit-pick. It actually allows the pilot to keep his/her eyes outside not worrying about a 2-3 knot difference most likely keeping everyone safer. Just my $0.02. I do see your point though.
5:06 "Climb via Sid..... maintain 4000" Does she say "except" in between?
VV Kim yep. "Climb via the SID except maintain 4000".
Yeah, that clearance doesn't make a whole lot of sense though. The first altitude is 4000 so "climb via" doesn't really apply if you're going to hold them down at the very first altitude. I'd think a better clearance would be "Cleared RITTA FIVE departure, maintain 4,000'".
It would make more sense if they gave something like "Climb via RITTA FIVE departure except maintain 7,000" so that they comply with the altitude restrictions at TTAPS and BOTLL and then level off at 7,000.