Gen 3 Mustang Coyote Intake cam idle stumble issues explained.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2024
- I show you what happens when you feel an intermittent stumble in your gen 3 mustang. I pull up a datalog and show you what's causing it and talk about possible fixes to the issue.
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I want to thank everyone for the comments. And thank you for the video! Exactly what my 2015 convertible is doing.
Very interesting Alejandro, I was wondering why they did this. My favorite is right when you begin engaging the clutch at a light, stall and look like a hoser.
My 19 gt has this problem I only have 8500 miles I just did a oil change the problem went away for a while about 1500 miles into the new oil change the idle problem came back I thought it was a throttle body issue happy I watched this
I'm having the same as our problem with my AT&T.. my dad is a mechanic and he said more than likely he think it's the idol valve control. So I looked up out of control on TH-cam and whatever explaining is exactly what's happening to the car
I’ve been having this on my used mustang 2018 mt82. I bought it with 20k miles. I couldn’t for the life of me get a direct answer from ford. Throttle body going out. Maf sensor. Tensiner. Intake solenoid. Lmrc’s. I’m currently at 28k. Thank you for this video Alex this is awesome!
Anytime sir.
I'm having the same problem with my 18 gt... My dad is a mechanic and he said more than likely it sounds like the idle control valve
@@rrbass82 "Was mechanic" I don't think these even have IAC valves. We got computer controlled throttle body's. No need for a controlled air leak.
Heavy Line Tech here. The 18's still use the older solenoids (Gen1/2) on the intake cams. This style solenoid does not have oil running through them to keep them clean. The problem arises from extended oil changes +5k miles or going by the oil life monitor. They mount to the timing cover on a high varnish area with no oil flow, thus they get sticky. No DTC's because they are good internally. You could litterally take them out, clean them with solvent and will function normally.
This happens on brand new vehicles with less than 2,000 miles on them
@@YDBT4LIFE Yeah thats terrible. They did (TSB 16-0093) with some 16' 3.5's under 2000 miles. Gotta bring them in. If your out of warranty though, take off connectors to solenoids and cycle with 12v jumper on and off repeatedly to unstick any debris. Sometimes works.
BTW Love your channel man. I can relate to what you do and follow right along, even with the inside jokes only hispanics can relate to lol.
Ford's getting in on that ghost cam tune
Did I just get out of the Matrix, or is the thumbnail looking funky?
Fits right in with the rest of 2020..
This was happening to my 2018, always stumbles when at idle. Took it into Ford and they told me they’re going to replace the solenoid and cam phasers also. Still waiting on results after they replace it. Thanks for this video, this definitely gave me an insight of what was happening with my mustang.
@@lavanava5271 update?
Update???
Update?
Update
Any updates?
More sound bytes for the livestream "bone stock tune!" and the cam burble "bluh, bluh, bluh" are priceless.
Alex educating the masses once again 😎
I have a 19 that’s had a rough idle since brand new. @round 4,000 miles I was waiting in line for coffee and it almost stalled I lightly gave it some gas and it came back and hasn’t done it that bad since. I just drained the appropriate amount of oil and put 2 bottles of ceratec in @ 13,000 miles and omg is it smooth. For anyone that wants to smooth it out try it. As for the warranty ford would have to prove that an additive caused the issue and there’s proof with this video and people saying the additive works so that’s my back up if a problem arises thanks for the video 🤙🏼
My car is completely bone stock… and I’m glad this video popped up. Mines done this since I bought it and thought it was the engine on its way out. It even bogs downs on cold starts and sounds like it’s a cammed out 350 thumping like crazy then clears out and repeats for 5 minutes till warmed up.. and these are on 90* days.
Whats the battery voltage?
Thanks for the advise . I was looking at my VCT intake 1 & 2 solenoids on the NGuage and when my car wanted to stall out I saw that the number dropped to -20.00 but the intake side is working perfectly fine . Thanks again
I've seen this when burning oil, oil interval time, 3kish.. phaser issues I've seen bad on high mileage older ford engines like 5.4L triton, 4.6L junk but maybe the same for our coyote as you've shown that intake cam drops a decent amt... great video informative as always,.. younger guys should pay attention to this man he tells it.. LFTW
at 19,800 miles. My 5.0 GT is doing same thing as of 2 days ago. I originally thought it was bad fuel? I run strictly 93 octane. Shell V Power if I can afford it.. right.. wrong.. Then I was thinking a bad sensor maybe. Your looking spot on man. Thanks
I have been fighting ford with this issue on my 19 since I hit 3400 miles. Been to the dealership 5 times since July and had the oil changed 3 times in 7500 miles(2 under warranty). Mine does it everyday when the oil is hot even after a fresh 5w-20 Motorcraft change. When its dead of summer hot out in AZ the low oil pressure light also comes on. Thank you for this video, now I know what to have them look for.
Its that oil pressure bypass solenoid that comes on at idle and cruise....since its defeatable in tune be interesting to see if you stayed at full oil pressure at idle, if it would still do this.....
@@bluecollardaily2676 That would be interesting to know.
Any update? Experiencing same issues what has the dealership done to try fix it the last few times
I got a new engine under warranty because it was coming apart. Dealer found significant metal debris in the oil filter and pan.
@@brianbrown7501 nice how is the engine treating you?
The raptor ecoboost is prone to phaser issues as well. People are chasing the dragon with their trucks but I think more frequent oil changes with a quality oil may be helpful from what I've been reading.
Alex, I've noticed on coyotes, that the throttle body blade "blips" and causes a clicking sound. I confirmed it on an f150 (no maf) and removed the air intake and asked a ford "tech" why. His answer was backed up by documentation saying that it's for condensation build up on the throttle body, the sudden "blips" keeps moisture from formimg on the throttle body and blade. Just fyi
I'm just gonna say, you do a great exhaust stumbling impersonation!
My first thoughts are windage aerating the oil at idle. I suspect its a battle of enough capacity for high RPM operation and minimizing windage at low RPM(idle) with these new motors, possibly due to the new composite pan design. As the oil ages it breaks down and aeration rate increases until finally the intake cam phaser starts to receive the bubbles, and when ones big enough the phaser gets pulled off target long enough for the idle to be affected. Your log shows 7-10* swings even in relatively stable RPM portions of the log, they just don't get stuck as they are brief. I say its time Ford puts a dry sump oiling system on the mustang. The exhaust cams are not affected as at 0* they are up against their stop and not fighting the engines rotation. Command them to 10* and they too would probably start to struggle maintaining that position.
Dude I wonder if that aeration issue has something to do with the "typewriter/bbq tick"
I had the same surge issues last year, I watched the intake cam freak on the ngauge. I still have logs of it happening, replaced all the vct equipment and it was perfect.
I have the same problem should I replace the vct solenoids? I was told by Lund to put 5w50 oil and that should fix the problem 🤔
@@sergiog87121 if junior said try the oil I would start at that point, that is the cheapest path. I know ford has always had vct issues, so it's not an uncommon thing. They are also repairing them with no questions, really that should say something.
Great thanks I'll try the oil first.
@@sergiog87121 did it fix the issue?
@@jesustoro4930 I didn't try the oil, Ford told me not to do that. I decided to replace the vct solenoids instead, probably about 3 weeks ago I replaced them. I don't drive the car much but the time I do drive it, it doesn't have this issue anymore. I hope this did fix the problem.
Alejandro:
Very interesting video. Thank you for your in-depth highly intelligent research.
My new 2019 Mustang GT PP1 with 20,000 miles began the intermittent stumbling idle issue. Very annoying at traffic lights. Took it to the dealer as it was still under warranty. Tech kept it for a couple days until he too experienced the stumbling idle. Tech replaced throttle body. Worked great for about 300 miles then started again. Therefore I did a few things myself as follows and I have not experienced the idle issue again for a year now:
1. I installed a catch can and it does a great job of catching and condensing the vapors into fluid and into the catch can.
2. I switched from factory Motorcraft 5W-20 oil to Motorcraft 5W-30 oil.
3. I stopped using Marvel Mystery Oil in my gas and crankcase. (I use it in my two Mazda 3's however and they run smooooooth and fast, like sewing machines lol)
4. I switched from Chevron premium to Shell premium fuel.
Not sure which remedy affected the good outcome, or if two, or if all did. I have a feeling the heavier viscosity oil did the trick as you touched on that in the video. (The Mystery oil in the fuel and crankcase I also believe contributed to more crankcase vapors entering the throttle body via the crankcase vapor recirculation too. I am happy now.
Alex is it a preference thing to bother correcting? The hassel doesnt seam worth the reward but to each is their own. Thanks for everything you do.
I don't know if the problem is related but I have a 18 f150 5.0 and I had to have the pcm reprogram for the cam phaser timing issue TSB and the check engine light would come on after 80% of oil life was used so I would clear the code change the oil and it would be fine for another 2-3 months.
Yeah , good to see ford is continuing its legacy of the 5.4 and low oil pressure messing up the phaser.
Hey Yeah I noticed this as well. It happens to my GT350
my '16 F150 5.0 is doing the same thing. Took awhile but i finally got P0012. Replaced the entire timing system. Still doing it. Now it even started doing it the day after an oil change 🤬. Full synthetic 5w-30
At least for the F-150s, Ford put out a TSB for an updated calibration that fixes the idle cam phaser issue. It fixed my problem but Lund's F-150 tune isn't based off that file sadly. From what I heard, late 2019's and 2020's have an updated phaser design. I've had the problem for years now across multiple different Lund tunes and I can attest that it's not the calibration. (I have a early 2018 5.0 F-150)
2020 and a new mustang won't even idle correctly, that's crazy!
This is exactly what I have currently on my stock mustang
you have said this about the gen 3 motors a few times. thanks for a video. don’t have a mustang but i don’t love them
I've never had a Idle issue in my 2018. I've ran Amsoil 5w30 since the day I got it. When warmed up it holds 620 RPM steady always after 16k miles.
Great info! My ‘16 GT is throwing P0308 Cylinder 8 misfire, P345 Cam shaft position sensor A circuit
P349 Cam shaft position sensor A intermittent. Could this be the problem? Has LTH no cats, Roush Charged, and VMP tuned. Help 😵
i have the same car and same codes !!! did this fix the issue ?
@@angelherrera1336 Hey, took it to the Ford Dealership and they had to replace the Cam Phasers, was a little expensive.
This happens on my 19 F-150 5.0 as well usually right before an oil change.
I have a 2019 manual transmission my car also displays this issue... What is the fix do I replace the VVT solenoid?
Needed this explanation, on point as usual
Ford has a SSM out for gen 3 F150(not sure on mustangs) for this concern with p0011, p0012, p0021, and p0022. You replace the solenoids only and reprogram the PCM. I’ve done a bunch. I’m assuming mustangs use the same solenoids in gen 3. I usually see it in trucks that aren’t maintained properly(7500 mile oil changes) but not saying that’s the cause.
Do you have the SSM number by chance?
5w-50 from day one in my 19. Haven't experienced the idle dip as you explained. Amsoil full synthetic oil changed at 4k miles. You gonna make Ford put out a TSB bruh lol. Watch, I bet it's gonna happen now I've seen this video.
The coyote master 🔥🔥🔥🔥👍🏿🐎
It could be just the plane oil viscosity, they do recommend 5w20 and Iv always put 5w50 and had the same issues. I switched to 5w20 and went away but who knows.
I use 5w20 always have and still does it pretty bad
I went from 5w30, to 5w50, and issue occurs less/hardly at all.
Full synthetic oil fixed that issue for me. On Lund Flex fuel tune, thought it was tune issue but oil changed fixed it.
What oil you put in it? Mine has this problem and Lund told me to put 5w50 oil
Yes what oil did you use?
@@lilgreg212 Im on lund E85R, went from 5w30, to FordMotorcraft 5w50, issue rarely happens anymore. If at all
Dayum bicho!!! You wearing them Levi's! I'm diggin it😂
My 16 f150 coyote has done the same thing , only a cat back and air intake , changed oil with 5w30 mobil one and ran a oil flush through engine and hasnt happened again , heard of low oil , or a restricted cam solenoid causing the problem .
Any issues?
This is happening to my 14 GT. It slightly 👌🏾 drops idle when I come to dead stops. I replaced all my ignition coils, spark plugs & o2 sensors. I’m pretty sure I don’t have any leaks. I even got a new intake manifold, hoping I fixed the issue!
I have a 2019 and 2020 mustang gt and luckily haven’t experienced the idling problem on either one of them. Hope I don’t.
Very informative video, Alex. Que dios te bendiga.
My 2020 A10 GT has an odd idle quirk. Cold start it idles fine but will “skip” a beat just for a split second. It seems like something it turning on or changing. That’s with and without AC on.
It’s when the car switches from direct injection to port injection. It’s almost around the 30 second mark. Mine and others do the same thing.
Thank again for the good intel Alex.
is a cam lope idle/ ghost cam tune bad for your car?
I had an 19 MT-82 and it never did that (it had 12k miles and I did 2 oil changes). I have a 20 A10 and about 6k miles, I just did my first oil change and I will try to pay attention to notice a dip in the idle RPM
There is a TSB for this, and its oooooolld. You need to “actuate” the phasers, go give it a few wots and it will go away.
The old Italian tune up lol.
My friend have this same issue on his 18 after his first motor went out. Ford replace it and started doing it, we went back and Ford with the dealer trying to figure out the problem and no luck. It does it with the tune and without the tune
I'm having the same problem too... In fact I just went to the dealer today and was there almost 8 hours waiting and they came up with nothing... My dad is a mechanic and he said more than likely it's the idle control valve
Is this a similar issue with warm starts sounding horrible? My cold starts are fine. Warm starts on hot days it sounds short and rough.
Alex is the Tunning GOAT!!!
Should ask your customer when Ford changed the solenoid & phasor, If they also change the oil at the same time. 🧐👍
I been getting occasional rough idling at stop lights lately, doesn’t happen too often but its starting to concern me…I got a bone ass stock 2019 5.0 just a resonator delete with Roush X-pipe
So far I haven't looked into how VCT works exactly. but I wonder if this condition is detected by the engine software and already being reset as a bugfix since it happends only for a short time and goes back to normal.
I have a 15 coyote swapped boss intake and jlt ans had tuned now it has a random missfire at 10%throttle 2000rpm changed plugs pretty sure coils are good im at a loss wot car runs great outruns other 550s but that area at cruise speed changed oil ect im almost to the point of going back to stock manifold
My friends 2021 GT starting doing something similar today after installing a cold air intake, and is throwing lean codes and random misfire. coming to a stop and leaving from a stop it stumbles, drives fine getting up to speed and cruising down the road, and under full throttle it runs a little rough and sounds funny too.
What's the voltage? Below 13.5?
Wonder if old oil and oil pressure are causing it to go into high cam for an instance, then loses oil pressure again, then goes back into low cam. It suddenly idling like it haves big cams most likely seems like the high cam idle if it was locked in high cam kind of like the ghost cam tune. Had a Nissan with vct and that thing gets stuck on high cam and we'll have to end up running the motor with harsh chemicals additives to get it back to running normal again.
Is there a definite answer to this problem? I've seen lots of speculation, but not a definitive answer. Yes, cam phasers? Turned out it was something else? Please.
I have a stock 2020 and haven't had this happen yet, maybe they fixed in 2020?
Great police work Alex!
So what would need to be replaced to fix this issue? The VCT or vvt solenoid?
I have a 2019 mustang gt 10spd, and mine does whether or not it needs an oil change, and my does it a lot more frequent than you'res, and its stock except for cat-back
my 2019 gt just started doing this very good video thank u!
Any confirmation of a fix?
Mine was doing this turned out to be bad cam phasers currently at the dealership
Why’s timing backing off? Could it be a knock type issue?
what wheels are those they look sick
What wheel package is that? Looking good!!
Cam phasers replaced didn’t fix the issue neither did the roush tune update and cycling the vct the weird thing was that my engine coolant was low so i decided to max it out and all of a sudden it fixed things its been two months since i maxed out my engine coolant maybe it didn’t work from the start cause the dealership i service at didn’t fill up the engine coolant to max lines?
No relation to cam phaser issues
My 16 does this, it sounds like a mis-fire, not this low stumble. I bought the car used, and is tuned in some fashion "off road exhaust" and no cel. This is an interesting thing to hear about. I was considering it was cam phaser, or cam the cam sensors, or maybe even the crank needs to be re-phased, but i dont have the stock tune file, and didnt dare to do it.
My 16 is doing this and I tried changing the sensors and rephasing the cam nothing changed. Getting the Cam phaser replaced is my next try
@@ericalvarez5322 is your car stock?
I have noticed a slight drop on my 14 v6 while idling. Ac not on and it just drops down a little for a few seconds then back to normal idle. but it isn't a stumble just drops down. My 12 Acura 3,5 V6 juts stays at steady idle and never drops
my 2018 a10 car did it stock and once it was tuned it happened and we raised the rpm up a little so now when it does it it wont stall or dip way down like it did before.
It’s not a tune issue brother.
@@cheyenneobregon184 he never said it was the tune issue.
@@cheyenneobregon184 i understand i was just saying reaising the rpm a little help mine from stalling is all.
Just a thought, the gen 3 coyotes have both port and direct injection, maybe its temporarily switching to port.
Nope. It's not that
my gt350 drops out of phasing during WOT (VCT schedule mode goes disabled leaving from optimal power mode)
Mine started doing this out of the blue recently. Went about 16,000 miles never having done it till I came to a redlight a few days back and it died. Car went through 10,000 miles with a Paxton on it and as soon as I went back to motor this car has shown it’s ass 😂
Now everytime it’s been running a while and I come to a stop the STFT’s freak out and it either dies or stumbles. Guess I’ll try VCT solenoids assuming those aren’t also on National backorder like half of Ford’s replacement parts
Update?
Mine does the exact same 2019 pp1 lund tune but it did it on steeda tune, and stock i just figured its just part of it
Isn’t it bizarre that this just started happening to me today after watching this video yesterday lol
Thank you alex for this info
My 19 f150 does this I watch my vct error on my ngauge. Dealership replaced all 4 phasers and solenoids. Still does it. My guess is possibly oil pressure maybe? We’re looking at a new engine now. 50,000km on it......fack
Is it bad tho ? Happens on my stock 10r80 right when due for an oil change . I’m asking cause I’m about to go e85 but I wanna make sure the car is okay before going the next level . Car does not seem slow it performs normal in my case
Alex can this cause a misfire code? Due to it stalling?
My car started doing this at 55k miles. My warranty is up. But it does not throw a code is that normal ? When I looked at it with my solus the cam A gave numbers like 54.2 but cam b was0.2
9:57 " Ima just take a break fuck it" LOL
So what’s the fix to stop this I’m tired of stallling out
Any updates?
Please lmk
That's the problem. There's a problem that no one ever tells you what the solution is.
Do the Gen 3 cams go out of phase at anything other than idle? At higher rpm or under boost, that could be catastrophic.
That thumbnail though 🌚
Mine stalls out too every now and then. Hasn't done it in a long time
My boosted 14 does this, will just up and die for
No reason- vmp tuned, might not be the tune?
Did you watch the video??
Yes I watched the video- yes I know gen 3 blah blah- doesn’t mean I couldn’t have a phaser acting up
soo i need to change all 4 vct solenoid ?
I have a 2018 mustang gt and mines does this and stalls bad so could it be my phaser
And this folks is when the ghost came tune was invented 😅
Anyone get a definitive answer as to what is causing this? Been going back and forth with my dealer for a few months because they refuse to look at the issue :/
Intake cam phasers falling out of phase. Like Alex said, some folks have said Ford replaced said Cam phaser and it resolved the issue. While others, such as myself, moved to 5w-50 oil (im tuned, Bolt ons, E85) and no longer have the issue once moving to Ford Motorcraft 5w50.
The Ford stealerships are mostly incompetent and sometimes corrupt.
VCT phasers I had this and got my solenoids replaced twice, but now I have other issues
What were those other issues?
@@5.0bed Wiring harness was bad giving MAF codes, they replaced the MAF plug on the wiring harness and it was ok for a while. Then I started having o2 sensor codes and misfire codes and stalling, ford replaced the fuel pressure sensor and fuel pump that worked for a while but the same problem came back. Ford then replaced my engine wire harness because the fuel pressure sensor was having more issues. This seemed to fix my issue, atleast for a few months so far.
So solenoids and phasers fix the issue?
@@jaayd5oh688 Yea, the issue where the car would just randomly stumble and die at idle. When they did this repair though they messed up my wiring harness which caused other weird issues for a while and was very frustrating but after the wiring harness was replaced now everything has been fine for like 5 months and I put a whipple on and its amazing.
"20, 0, 20, 0, FUCK YOU, NEGATIVE 7 BANK 1" 😭😭😭😭😭👏👏👏😂 how do you not love learning tuning like this
I have a 2019 that I got brand new. Don't know if it matters but I've been running mobil 1 5w30 ever since the mustang hit 1,200 miles. And mine doesn't do this at all. I didn't even knew this was a common problem.
Hey Alex I’m looking for some advice lol
I have an On3 TT kit with 55mm ceramic ball bearing turbos and boost cams. (Gen2 coyote)
Im in the market for a new built short block, would you recommend a lower compression or is oem fine?
Looking to make 1000 - 1200whp
Thank you
I must agree with the oil theory. It's the most logical diagnosis for cam phasing to drop like it does. I'm going to check for a TSB for phaser or solenoid or both. Just curious if you would change oil to Gibbs Driven 5/50. I haven't experienced this bobble with Gibbs Driven oil in my 18 GT. As always great content Alex.
I'll try and report back