As a day 1 thunder hammer enthusiast, I wholly agree with this. The fact that the Crucis routinely wastes a 60k damage, thrust IV, damage stimmed, 15 momentum stack zealot charge is not just criminal, its a fucking FELONY. I refuse to use the Crucis until this changes, and the fact that the Ironhelm has that disgusting heavy 3 makes it unusable unless you're constantly vigilant about where you are in your attack chain. Even with an optimal build, the value that the hammer can provide is extremely low given the sheer volume of heavily armored enemies in packs. Rager packs? Hope to god your teammates take some aggro... Mauler packs? I hope you've got time for 3 heavy swings per mauler... Dog packs? You're fucked... The thunder hammer needs to be able to one tap anything without armor on a light attack, even if they just made it swing slower... FATSHARK!!!!!!!! DROP A THUNDERHAMMER BUFF AND MORE SISTERS OF BATTLE COSMETICS, AND MY MONEY IS YOURS!!!!!
Ironhelm heavy 3 is amazing just give it more time, and the value that u can bring with hammer is correlative on how hard u try to use it, rager packs can be easily solved with good positioning/block and FotF brings a lot of use with the little stun it gives them and ironhelm is a big help when they aren mixed in a big horde, same with maulers, is not hard to one body shot them with the correct build, and lastly dog packs can be killed very easily with horizontal heavys (3 or more dogs per swing, just wait for them in a tight space, in a open area yeah of course is gonna be hard is a big ahh hammer. I didn't try to bother, just trying to give my knowledge about hammers.
@@Reginald-sc9tk I can't recall the names but my flamer uses the blessings that regen your toughness while in continuous fire (Inspiring Barrage?) And adds increased stagger to the standard fire mode and it compliments the slower hammer really well. I will say that obviously my Mk IX Heavy Sword "Lawnmower" build is MUCH better but there isn't many things better than burning the heretic and then smashing him with a big Ole hammer
I hate how (almost) all the iconic 40k gear is either obnoxiously overpowered or woefully outclassed. Why can't we have the cool gear feel good to use? At least the chain weapons are in a decent place.
There was once upon a time when the boltgun and flamer were bar none the strongest weapons in the game by a very wide margin. Thammer was even decent pre patch 13. I’d say more weapons just need their damage and stagger buffed to match the insane increase in elite and special density. Most of the iconic gear has been kept at the same power or nerfed since the launch of the game while enemies have been buffed through the roof
I'm starting to think sweden is where the phrase "like taking candy from a baby" came from because between Fatshark and arrowhead they have done a poor job of representing sweden. its like those people like to ruin other people's fun. however that is only 2 so it just a coincidence and not a pattern yet
Yeah, we really need some love to. The iconic gear. The power sword needs adjusting but I think vetbabies would cry too hard, plasma probably should get toned down a hair on its cleave. Bolter needs love. Chain weapons are good.
@@Reginald-sc9tkI don’t remember where I heard this but I’ve always liked it. Give the weapons with activation specials a meter so they can stay on or off. The meter depletes on hit and recharges on a timer and unactivated kills so if you play aggressively you can use the fun powered mode more often, and power cycler could give back a percentage on kill. Not only would it help with the jank of activating your weapon special after ever hit while you have 100+ enemies in you face but also adds to the resource management gameplay that keeps you more engaged in the moment to moment. Plus I could just imagine how hard it would go to see a horde of enemies coming at you and keeping on the throttle of your chain weapon while ripping and tearing through them.
@@whiskeypunch8012 A 1/2 ton Ogryn with a giant miner's pickaxe should one tap the canned meats, to be fair. Then again... A two-handed shock maul swung by a hobo on amphetamines...
@@0bzen22 I'm not so sure even an ogryn with a pickaxe should be popping other ogryn in carapace in one hit. But if anything can its that and thammer. Sadly hammer cannot, lmao.
I mean to be fair, the Branx does 700+ damage on heavies and has armour piercing properties, if it _didn't_ absolutely mulch Crushers it'd be even more rage inducing
The worst crime is the gameplay of having to suffer through forced animation locks just to use the special attack is just not very engaging or interesting gameplay. Even if the numbers were balanced it would still feel clunky and sucky.
This is a common view and I get it. Personally I like the stun lock, I think its an engaging skill check that makes the weapon more interesting and cerebral to use. But you can't please everyone with a weapon design i think.
I think if the damage output was porportionate to the animation time i would be cool with it. The problem is that the damage from the special attack isnt high enough to make the animation lock feel worth it.
That's what we have variants for if nothing else. Could always reduce the self stun on the crucis & remove it on the ironhelm. Or make a new variant that doesn't have it in exchange for something else. Or add in a new blessing that removes the self-stun. There's lots of solutions around, Fatshark just has to do something beyond sitting on their log like a dead toad. Which is not their forte.
the pickaxe can EASILY not only stagger a crusher squad but also kill them quickly, meanwhile the thunderhammer will get you killed by the stagger alone and you wont be able to kill the crushers as easily. the thunderhammer is a high risk-no reward weapon
ALSO PLEASE LET OTHER PEOPLE HEAR IT GO "FFWWWGSSSHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Great points by the way. I'm a sad addict just for the sound at this point. You have to work so hard to make the Thammer good at high difficulties.
As a side suggestion, how about overkill damage on any target is factored into an AOE explosion, determining radius or stagger force or damage or any combination thereof? A fully buffed heavy special from the Crucis thus does not get completely wasted on hitting a poxie, the effect is scaled based on your time commitment beforehand rather than an on-off hard mechanic, but its still a lot less efficient than a Crusher doing it intentionally for crowd control.
As a huge fan of the lore of 40K, the Thunder Hammer in Darktide was deeply disappointing to me. Not being able to 1 shot Crushers and the like with it is fucking wild. In lore, Thunder Hammers are capable of 1 shotting Space Marines who are far more durable with their armour than an Ogryn. Not being able to 1 shot a Renegade Ogryn is heretical, let alone its light attack charged state failing to 1 shot even a basic Dreg Gunner with a headshot.
Agreed but a Space Marine sized Thunder hammer is bigger than a militarum one. Same as with Bolt guns there are Astartes scale ones and Human scale ones.
I would argue an ogryn in full carapace is much tougher in lore than a space marine. But thammer is fully capable of oneshotting either in lore. Its insane how pathetic thammer is in this game compared to lore. God emperor willing we see buffs.
It definitely should oneshot Crushers on damnation on a crit (ensuring the dash ult always can), there's no excuse for it not doing that, but I'm not so sure about doing it every time
@@sulphuric_glue4468 Until we nerf most other weapons that can currently already do this, then yes. Yes it should. Should we nerf 1shots on crushers? probably yeah. But we can't have the TH underperforming a chain axe.
The thunder hammer felt best for me when you could cancel the special stun with a weapon swap. I'd rather have quicker swings over a safer aoe stun effect on a hit.
So true, if u were doing the special activation and a dog jump on you and u can't dodge cause no space or stuck with enemies u can't stop the animation, so you are going to get jump, one way to avoid that is using ult, change to range weapon or use a throwing blade.
I am completely aligned with improving the visual and physical effects eg. Bolter explosion and shockwaves (on charged armored enemy hits). But I feel like it needs more dmg associated with such an awesome effect. I want it to function more like spalling, where the shrapnel would rip through unarmored/infested/unyielding enemies in a small cone. Imagine charging up a swing for a bulwark and instead of sidestepping the shield you hit it head on dealing about... I dunno ~500 to ~700 damage directly while staggering the adjacent horde types.
There was a point in Darktide when they drop the class overhaul update where the Thunderhammer was one shotting crushers but was quickly nerf in a couple months after, not sure if the weapon had the same weaknesses like it is now but it will make sense to had them if they trade off was to high a REALLY HIGH single target weapon but with a really high risk.
Great rundown overall. I think the only weak point is 5:22 where it'd have been nice to provide an idea for * specific targets where *unpowered lights* are your best attack, to contrast against... * ...targets where *powered lights* are your best attack (which is already provided in the relevant section, I think) The best weapon balance in Darktide requires that every attack is "best" in a certain situation, so just spelling out things verbatim like "lights should all be overheads and one-shot weakpoint scab bruisers (whatever the unarmored-head flak armor horde dudes are; I think "bruisers" might be right?), whereas have powered lights be good for killing gunner-tier enemies (ideally fairly quickly, but I think the reduced 0.3s self-stun time probably would help a _ton_ for that, so you maybe already have that covered) Granted, "best attack" doesn't always have to be killing. If a reactionary light followup to any attack is just your fastest way to put out a medium-cleave stagger attack (so *not* necessarily great at killing anything, but quite excellent defensively to stagger several dangerous enemies) then that might work too.
I must be a special one, and not in a good way, for selecting trash weapons continuously. I mained the chain sword at he beginning on Zealot before it was cool (now not so cool but anyways...). Now I main the Crucis because of it's trash horde clear ability. I just like how it swings (like the chain sword) and staggers hordes. The monstrosity bonus damage is cool, but not the main attraction for me. What's most annoying is the self-stun, and how unreliable the weapon generally is. You can hit a crusher with a heavy + powered in the face, and still get pancaked by him afterwards. Maybe it's my high latency Internet (Starlink). Or just do a regular heavy swing on a mauler or crusher, and not stagger them. This should not require a perfect headshot to stagger one or several of those boys. Just consistency and stagger / interrupt, that's all. Same with ragers, you can sometimes headshot them with a heavy attack, and nothing, they just continue shredding you, which makes dealing with ragers a nightmare with that weapon. Consistent stagger, and I'd be fine, even if it takes 20 seconds to kill one. I'm a patient man. The heavy mauls attacks, or light powered attacks should automatically override their stun immunity and stagger them, so the weapon is more predictable and useful. I think I can deal with the long self stun. You never power an attack in the middle of a bunch of crushers and maulers (or you're basically dead 50% of the time). You do that when you have an isolated target, and that's fine. But I want more consistency. And yeah, it's weird how weak heavy powered attacks are against carapace. These should annihilate Armor, as that's what big blunt weapons were used for historically (anti-armor). Especially the Crucis, with its wedge-shaped end (like the Ogryn pickaxe). They were used to cave in Armor and be generally unpleasant, even when the target was also protected by thick padding underneath. Maces were really popular for anti-armor. Axes and pikes were too, but blunt weapons had less of a tendency to get stuck, anyway... I guess I'll keep using it and using it wrong until they buff/fix it.
I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the Hammers have hidden (for whatever reasons) damage multipliers. On Flamers and Unyielding (reapers and bulwarks) they do an extra 3X damage on all Special attacks. This means a light special attack can kill a Flamer even when hitting the foot. It also has 9X on Hounds. Not sure if this info changes anything for anyone but worth mentioning.
As a Power Maul enjoyer I wish that we would get a one-handed power maul for the humaan classes. the Crusher and shock mauls are cool, but I really want a silly mace.
I want to say the reason why the Thunder hammer is this way is because of the testers fatshark has currently to test updates and balances, arguably while they are good players apparently a common sentiment they have is to reduce the amount of stagger on weapons and reduce strong weapons by either making the strength a gimmick it can do or has enough of a skillcheck/downside tagged to it that its in a fine spot, which is why ogryn lost the rumbler headshot stagger on monsters as an example because it was easy to pull off and offered a great reward, and they also don't want any weapon capable of low effort monster killing hence why you need to basically use zealot assassin build and backshot a monster to get the insane damage tick. it was wild to meet a couple and get a deep dive, but they have their own community in which they meet, talk and play damnation-aruric 5 on the balance of dark tide to send messages forward to fatshark who prioritize their feedback on balance. Its why the pickaxes that released were made the way they were because the light pickaxe use to have much higher stagger which made it hold hordes way better and the heaviest hitting pickaxe actually could 1 shot headshot crushers on 5 without needing to stack alot of stats to do it like it is now. It got removed because the stagger was enough to hold everything except armored elite type in the game "imagine the old vermintide 2 hammers on dwarf". I didn't ask about the middle pickaxe at all but was told that "it's basically the in-between of the balance we were looking towards" before it swung to the light pickaxe which was apparently overturned on pre-release for them.
A downside to this entire thing is that fatshark is not likely going to listen to any of us unless we manage to either get into the testing team or enough of the community sends hate at fatshark in which they will likely make something send it to the internal team with instructions and get feedback on the buffs for the thunderhammers, otherwise fatshark will actively ignore us as they are entirely focused on the crafting overhaul.
Well then I will just continue to pray for buffs and maybe leverage some contacts. Upshot of being a long time darktide tuber is just knowing a lot of people.
Yup, pretty much hit almost all of the pain points for the thunder hammer. The only things I have to add is that the self stun shouldn't prevent defensive actions, and move the ironhelm's overhead strike to the crucius. The self stun should only be for offensive actions, so you could block and dodge after a charged hit, just not attack. Moving the overhead strike to the crucius would give it a non-cleaving heavy attack so you could snipe individual targets with a heavy charged attack through grouped up enemies. The overhead strike on the ironhelm does literally nothing except annoy me by making me change my strike pattern to avoid using the overhead heavy attack, since it doesn't do additional damage over the cleaving attacks, and it hits much less targets, since the ironhelm charged heavies actually cleave. The only thing is that they'd have to make it only accessible after a push attack or something, since you can't cancel an upcoming overhead heavy with a charge, since that'll stop your next heavy from cleaving in horde situations.
It is mind blowing that a crit build with a knife can easily be a faster and safer chaff hoard clear, as well as armor clear as well as killing crushers than the thunder hammer. This shit is supposed to be able to obliterate Greater Daemons right? Literal manifestations of doom and death are crushed under its weight and power. But not cultist gunners? I get the argument of game play balance but to be fair the ogryn heavy stubber needs some love too, the range on what is essentially two 50 Cal LMGs is pathetic.
first remove the bad-at-game fanboys who kept brainwashing themselves into thinking hammer is good instead of just admit the hammer has issues(since release, before any nerf).
Hammer glazer here, as u probably with the chain axe i have give a lot of time to hammers (zealot lvl +700 - account lvl +1600) because it's literally my fav weapon, so after watching your video i can say a few things. I mostly agree with you in every point but a few things can be rethought. Vision-boss killer but not so hard: it is true that hammers can delete bosses without your team even getting to touch them, but on most ocasions this is made by good position, knowledge, stacked buffs or shroudfield, with this i say in a normal boss encounter a plague ogryn could take easily up to 4 hits and armored bosses (captains, rinda, rodin, etc) die faster with chain weapons, by this i mean that the overall damage doesn't need a big change, maybe shroudfield could se a rework/nerf on hammers but i really couldn't tell because i mostly use FotF. Pashe 1-7 That's a really good idea so crucis wouldn't be behind ironhelm and there will be a reason to prefer or experiece one over the other, but this could be a problem for ironhelm if breakpoints on crushers/elites are not reachead, this goes in hand with the next point. Pashe 2-1 If the selfstun is going to be the same on ironhelm on heavy hits but you don't gonna get that aoi from crucis, it's gonna feel the same fighting a group of 6 crushers, so you either give ironhelm an aio or reduce the selfstun of it. That's all u have some good ideas, some things i'll say, id like to see a better version of one of the more iconic weapons in sci-fi? yes, but i woundn't like to see something that overpowered and i honestly love the niche that it haves, is a high risk mid reward weapon but i don't want to see a powersword 1.0, a knife kitchen or CA+BM, i want to see something balance and something that is hard to use. P.S. Inglish isn't my first language so some things could be hard or unreadable
I would specifically replace thrust with slow and steady. Removing a blessing would have a lot of issues and by replacing it with the other charged heavy skill that playstyle would feel still very encouraged. Also, a experamental idea for the Ironhelm third heavy and heavies in general is maybe better innate cleave damage with less cleave targets total, combined with the third heavy being instead the first heavy in chain and only looped back two through other overhead lights. The cleave idea I think plays into the idea of being a bit more anti croud/multi use than the raw umph of the crucius hammer and to make it have a more unique uncharged role in combat. The idea for the chain changes is more based off of complaints I've heard about it's awkwardness to handle due to the chain layout. I have relatively low time on zealot compaired to ogryn through so don't take my claims as gospil.
Thunder Hammers and Bolt weapons need huge DMG buffs. My view would be - add a charge bar to the thunder hammer - say 3 charges - you hit special you use a charge - it is a 100% Critical chance on next hit. Takes 12s to recharge one charge - so using it tactically takes skill. A crusher mob would need skill to deal with.
That being said Fury of the Faithful (which most thunder hammer players will already be using) already gives you a guaranteed crit on your next melee attack, so I don't know how much that would help without any other changes
Bolt weapons definitely don't need dmg buffs. :) Add surgical and be surgical. Don't mag-dump. We don't need Crushers to die even more easily to some ranged attacks than they do now.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say on this. I have always thought the charge animation and self-stun for both hammers were far too punishing on higher difficulties even when Thrust was busted and allowed for one shotting Daemonhosts on a fully charged heavy. I think it's clear as day that the tHammers' special attacks need an armor penetration buff AND a damage buff besides in order to justify the self-stun costs of using them. If it were possible to rebuild the attack chains to allow special ability activations to be worked into your combat flow in order to negate all or a large majority of the neutral charge/discharge animation lockouts then the weapon would gain substantial lethality in the hands of an enthusiast without needing the aforementioned AP/dmg buffs to be very large at all.
Nothing was funnier to me than watching j_sat's darkfeats with the quad thunderhammer melee only, and seeing the soul slowly drain out of four individuals as they realized over the course of 40 minutes just how bad the weapon was. and it's only gotten worse since then! Really like the proposed thrust change. it really should just be an integral part of the weapon
Different proposal, reduce the self stun to 0.1 seconds on special light attacks but once activated you can swing 3 times. Special attacks have close to infinite cleave until your hammer reaches something that has considerable hitmass
Me with my two handed chain sword of the highest mark: light attack sweepy. Heavy attack crunchy. Me smash. Me with the power hammer: I’m gonna bonk ya! I’m gonna bonk ya again! -_-
So the early Patch notes for some of the weapon and blessing changes for the 26th September "Unlocked and Loaded" Big Patch(tm) are out, impressive work by Strawhat given it's almost 3 weeks away. Would he interested to hear your thoughts: Weapon Changes Thunder Hammers The Thunder Hammer family of weapons suffered for being over-specialized into the Monstrosity-removal niche, while being very underwhelming against most other threats and in general failing at keeping up with the increased intensity of high difficulty missions. With the following changes we aimed at rebalancing the weapon to preserve its single-target focus, but also to make it more well rounded and more exciting to use in all situations. While the upper end of the damage on Special activated attacks against the Unyielding armor type has been lowered to prevent unhealthy 1-shots of Monstrosity enemies, the damage against Carapace Armour has also been significantly increased to conversely be able to more effectively handle Elite enemies like Maulers and Crushers (potentially dispatching them with a single well placed hit). The Light activated attack damage profiles have been improved to reward weakspot hits and to more easily eliminate any human-sized enemy. The self-stun after a Special activated attack has been significantly reduced on both marks, and differentiated between Light and Heavy attacks. This will make it way easier to find a window of time to deliver its devastating activated blows without being overly punished by other enemies. Also, most Light and Heavy attacks have been improved in their damage and reach, to make the weapon more reliable in dealing with lesser enemies when not activated. Both marks of the Thunder Hammer weapon family have also received some additional targeted changes, explained just below! Dev Note: It’s also a hammer. Detailed Changes All Marks Tweaked the damage profile for Light Special activated attacks: Armor damage modifier vs Unyielding from {2.0,3.0} to 2.0. Tweaked the damage profile for Heavy Special activated attacks: Armor damage modifier vs Unyielding from {3.0,5.0} to 3.0. Armor damage modifier vs Carapace Armour from 1.0 to 1.5. Improved the headshot/critical damage bonus multiplier on all Light attack profiles: Finesse boost from 0.3 to 0.5. Improved the damage of the Light Strikedown attacks: Attack power distribution from {150,300} to {180,350}. Improved the damage of the Heavy Relentless attacks: 1st target attack power distribution from {150,300} to {180,350} 2nd target attack power distribution from {80,160} to {100,200} 3rd target attack power distribution from {50,100} to {75,150}. Fixed several windup and attack actions which could be canceled by sprinting. Crucis Mk II Thunder Hammer The Crucis Mk II mark always boasted the higher damage compared to its Ironhelm Mk IV brother, but delivering that damage to the intended target was often difficult due to the horizontal direction of its Heavy attacks and the effective lack of cleave on Special activated attacks. This led to not uncommon scenarios where a Heavy activated attack could be completely absorbed by a single intercepting Poxwalker, leaving the target enemy unscathed. To give players more control on the situation, we added a new overhead Heavy attack to the weapon, only chainable after the Special activation action for a short period of time. Also, a small amount of cleave was added to the Heavy activated attacks, meaning that the swing will be able to go through at least one lesser enemy. These changes combined will make the weapon more reliable in delivering its devastating damage to the intended target. Additionally, the damage profile of the Light 3 attack has been improved to reward players completing the attack chain instead of resetting it. Detailed Changes - Crucis Mk II Thunder Hammer Reduced the Self-stun duration after connecting with a Special activated attack: Light stun from 1.3 to 0.3 Heavy stun from 1.3 to 0.5. Tweaked the hitboxes and damage windows for most attacks to be more aligned with their animations. Improved reach for all Light attacks and the Push follow-up attack. Tweaked the speed and chain time for the Light 1 and Light 2 attacks: Light 1 Slightly reduced the attack speed Improved chain time to Light 2 / Heavy 2 attack start from 0.65 to 0.55. Light 2 Significantly improved the attack speed. Added a bespoke improved Light Strikedown damage profile to the Light 3 attack Attack power distribution {200,380} Finesse boost vs Unarmoured 0.75 Finesse boost vs Flak Armour 0.6. Slightly improved reach for all Heavy attacks Changed so that the Heavy 2 attack chains into Light 3 / Heavy 1 instead of Light 1 / Heavy 1 to give an alternate access to the improved Light 3 attack. Special activated attack changes: Added a small amount of cleave to Heavy activated attacks: Cleave distribution {1.0,3.0}. Attack power distribution {400,800} when cleaving. Cannot cleave through Elites, Specialists, Monstrosities and Captains. Added an attack start chain from the Special activate action, chaining into Light 1 and a unique Strikedown Heavy attack with a vertical animation. Improved the duration of the Special activate buff from 4s to 5s. Significantly improved the Light activated attack properties: Attack power distribution from {300,600} to {400,750} Finesse boost vs Unarmoured from 0.3 to 1.0 Finesse boost vs Flak Armour from 0.3 to 1.0 Finesse boost vs Maniac from 0.3 to 0.5 Overall Finesse multiplier curve from {0.25, 0.75} to {0.65, 1.15}.
Likewise with the boltgun & bolt pistol changes are very close to what you suggested. Not quite "full damage on arm hits" but close. "Extended the radius of the hitscan for the bolt projectiles. Dev Note: This will make the hitscan detection to be more generous and allow for shots that would have slightly missed the target to still be considered a hit. Changed the bolt properties to ignore limbs on non-Monstrosity enemies when the projectile trajectory would have also hit their torso or head. Dev Note: This will avoid situations where a bolt could be intercepted by the limbs of the enemies even when aiming at their center of mass, resulting in heavily reduced damage. Armor damage modifier vs Carapace Armour from 0.4 to 0.5 (both near and far range). Armor damage modifier vs Infested from 0.5 to 0.9 (near) / 1.0 (far). Godwyn-Branx Pattern Bolt Pistol Added cleave properties to the bolt projectiles. From no_cleave to {1.0,3.0}. Dev Note: This will make it possible for the shot to hit the intended target instead of being fully absorbed by even a single minor enemy." + a few more.
I feel like taking notes from the power maul/crusher and added a aoe stagger/supress it would..... It wouldn't be fixed but it would at least be a good baseline buff to hold her over for now. Plus the pause on hit wouldn't make the special charged attacks not be suicidal.
I was thinking it should feel more like those new pickaxes like the heavy and medium one bringing that hammer crashing down on the heads of the heretics when heavy attacking. any thoughts on the bolt pistol and rifle it seems to me like they have been done dirty or are poorly represented for some reason.
Not gonna lie their thammer looks worse from the gameplay I've watched hahahaha. Can't even oneshot a warrior form. Seems to do less boss damage than the ones in DT. Looking reaaal sad.
@@Reginald-sc9tk true. I think it cleaves. I’d hope some talents for the assault class buff it but time will tell. I’m itching to try Warhammer for the first time. May get dark tide. I’ll make sure to avoid the thunder hammer 😅
Can I just say one thing: no weapon is supposed to be "the best" weapon in Darktide and are supposed to be on the same level, ignoring the Lore and providing a great gameplay experience. That said, it ends up that the hand-knife outperforms everything else in almost everything that I can't even fathom having as much fun with anything else than it, except for maybe the Deimos sword and the Sabre or whatever it is called (both Psyker weapons). And since all weapons on the Ogryn are shit, clunky, slow weapons, at least I get to one-tap Crushers with a latrine shovel. But again, the premise that something is supposed to be "the best weapon" is just wrong and that kind of thinking ruins gameplay which, in it's core, should have the "a series of interesting choices" philosophy which should define all games (it's a Sid Meier quote describing video games). Anyway, thank you for creating content.
On the one hand, I think you're right. On the other I think you're wrong. The ideal balance is that everything is viable and nothing is without a valid home in the endgame. This is a matter of scale. The power gap scale between top and bottom should never be too large. At the same time there is always going to be a "best" and "worst" meta weapon. Thats a fact. The more different weapons are from one another, the more that a "best" will emerge. Thus, right now, the knife is the best and the thunder hammer is the worst. It should be the other way around by lore. But everything should be viable
Powercreep killed this weapon. The self-stun off special hit is something theyve been either removing or not adding in new weapons, theres weapons that deal either higher single-hit or generally superior dps, it just feels like shit, it really feels like a "day 1" weapon: Outmoded.
I think if they just made it do more damage against humanoid enemies so you kill Maulers on charged heavy attacks it'd be good enough. The fact that their juryrigged armored head can withstand 2 or more direct heavy swings is ridiculous.
It is insane. But until crusher oneshots are harder to get for other weapons thammer not being able to do it is also insane so we gotta normalize. Ideally thammer would be king of crusher kills but it'd take 2 hits and everything else way more.
Low light and heavy attack damage. Too much setup required for impactful special attacks. One dominant blessing. The Eviscerators fixed these points, and they feel much better. The Thunderhammers do have Crowd Control listed as a speciality, so I don't think their horde clear should be really weak.
I think the hammer is perfectly balanced, and maulers are really attractive. If I was a mauler, which I’m not, I’d probably just join their side and apologize.
i really like the iron helm. i swap between it and my tigris mk x on my martyr build. i use thrust and momentum to do a jack of all trades type build. i got the relic for group stuns and support, flash grenades for revives, an ia lasgun to be my anti ranged specialist and mid to long range hoard clear spam stick.
I want the thunder hammer to be my favourite weapon. It's the one I was most keen on using, but it feels like it just lightly taps or bounces off everything.
You can access ironhelm heavy 3 by doing a push (pause for half a sec) then heavy. If you push attack, it won't work. It might not do more dmg doing this but it feels like it.
I hope they do the changes you suggest and I also think it would be cool if they would add a variant that has a 3 vanguard lights and 2 strikedown heavies so it could absolutely destroy 1 guy consistently
How about changing the charged special heavy attack of the crucis to a vertical strike down instead of a horizontal swing. And the non charged heavy stays horizontal for horde-clear ? Or make it possible to charge the ironhelm it mid combo to make use of the third heavy attack more
Good content, I concurr to the intention and message. And I will include you into my evening prayers to the emprah for the sheer amount of detail you put in this. Ive just popped my 1000h in DT, and the stuff I use , I got down. with the thunderhammers i was always just majorly underwhelmed. My knife works so muchb etter lol.
I kinda like the thammer for crowd control, but yeah, you're not gonna be killing a lot of stuff, and even in that role the crusher is better. I hope the rework the thammer to be worthy of the name
It should do incredible single target damage vs anything and have terrible clear or it's activation attack having a shockwave stun or stagger but instead I it feels as it should have a squeeky hammer effect when hitting anything, lore and game balance wise, if you have something designed to crush armour both man and tank grade it should do that and keep it's slow and steady attack speed... I am going to switch out to either chain weapon at this rate, even style points can't save it... speaking of sounds, it really needs it's discharge effect breaking your ear drums..
Very much this, it was usable a while back but with current balance it just not up to scratch with dps compared to its clunkiness. It should be a clunkier weapon but the performance has to match that with damage and utility.
The reason often is: front-loaded dmg vs. rear-loaded dmg. But I get ya. Eviscerator balance is really good. You can use every part of the weapon and it feels meaningful. Thunderhammer attacks (particularly light attacks) are so weak that they should be avoided.
I recently started messing with it and my first two thoughts were, it doesn’t reach as far as you think it’s going to and it doesn’t do as much damage as it should. The Iron-whatever’s third swing in the 3 heavy combo feels crappy as well
This may be a hottake from a hammer main like myself, i just dont see an issue With the hammer aside from the light attack. It can fit anywhere. I see what ur saying tho ofc. The reach is a little...annoying. especially when ur trying to solo a deamonhost or any other bosses when ur team js dead or hurt and u need space which is what the zealot is typically used for. Making space for ur team to move uo by killing bigger enemies. I personally feel like making it lore accurate would cause an imbalance tho. Maybe close or individual buffs against stuff like maulers and crushers but not bosses as the dmg rests fine where it is. I do agree with a good bit of ur points tho and that rework u noted sounds like nothing but a positive really good video!!!
Thammer having its monstrosity damage nerfed in exchange for utility elsewhere is something that makes so much sense. It makes monstrosity maelstrom with a thammer user not a boring cakewalk, and it makes the weapon less insanely pigeon holed.
I'm gonna be real, I use the Ironhelm in most of my builds and I think it's one of the best weapons in the game. Why? Huge stagger and stagger cleave. 20 poxwalkers? On the floor. Crusher? On his ass. Daemonhost? They're gonna feel it for sure. The damage is low, but that's not the important part balance-wise. I can live through anything since the enemies are too concussed to even attack. It's a very defensive weapon. If you add damage you just get a better version of what other weapons already are, and that's lame.
In lore Thammer: One of the most respected "I am not fucking with that guy" weapons that are documented as being able to allow a mortal to actively fuck up Astarties. In game Thammer: a decorative rock sledge with a sparkle button. Really the only reason to use a Hammer is to kill single target bosses, and even then the chance to wiff with the boss killer build is super high, and you still have to do a bunch of prep work/positioning/praying nothing stands within 5 feet of you during wind up.
I think you can get a 1tap with FotF and martyrdom with thrust. But you need an absurdly good hammer roll to do it. But yes, they need buffs including the ironhel.
I’m kinda hoping they give it power cycler and give the ogryn’s power maul power cycler. That would turn those 2 weapons into powerhouses like the power sword. Really hope the talent/perk overhaul adds new perks or rework the crappy ones into new ones.
@@Reginald-sc9tk maybe it could only be a tier 4 blessing, but allow you to swing twice before you have to charge it again. 3 swings like the power sword would probably be too much, but it’s odd to me the other power weapons don’t have power cycler.
It doesn't do enough more damage than the eviscerators to monsters for it to really be worth it. It's probably the same for chain axes, but you would know better than I for chain axes :P
fatshark, hire this man as a consultant right away, I would love to go back to maining zealot, but my immense disappointment in the thunder hammer sent me to psyker
Haven't played in a long while. I'm glad the thunder hammer was at least knocked down a couple pegs. It's unfortunate they knocked it down to many pegs.
i'd love the thunder hammer if it had an AoE effect. i mean if it would send 3-5 little guys flying and would stun 1-2 bigger, it would be insane, but this single target stuff, nuh can't even consider it
There's a video called Data for the Data god in my catalogue. Its my custom dataset, I made it. It has flaws but you can get it on that video's description.
Selfstun should be removed at all or allow you to dodge during recovery. In current state even 0.3s guaranted suicide against pack of crushers, just 100% confirmed overhead from other crushers in pack after your first hit.
While I am sympathetic to your plight, you absolutely can kill an entire patrol of crushers with the current thammer. You can watch my data collection videos where I consistently preform this feat.
@@Reginald-sc9tk you can, but what the point? While you dancing around trying to find moment to strike, any ogryn with branx, any bolter/plasma vet, any void/trauma psyker can kill whole pack by himself without flaws
@@jebedyan Yes, hence my suggestions in this video to eliminate these issues. Improved reach and consistent one-shot should solve the issue. I'm very confident.
Dude they haven't fixed the elevator bug on the carnival map in months, they ain't doin any of these changes. They're too busy focusing on shitty vermintide 2 and shtty pvp.
Mr.Reginald, can you help a fella out please? Can you advise on a better optimised set of settings for Darktide please as I've tried ALL SORTS of settings, mods, etc and it still seems to dip way lower than my system specs SAY it should dip to ;?
@@Reginald-sc9tk Aye bud, it's not great considering I've got a Ryzen 7 an a 3070ti. I expected a bit better than dropping down to 40 frames sometimes in the heat of battle D: RTX aint on or anything either, just seems to wanna run like garbage no matter what I tweak from dropping EVERY setting to lowest to a mix or high and low to chaninging the threads in the launcher etc :D If yous aint sure about it bud don't worry about it though :) Thanks for the reply
Hey, ik you mostly specialize in zealot but something I'm curious if you'd be interested in covering the mk XIX latrine shovel. And potential reworks. The weapon isn't insanely bad in a vacuum, but it struggles from having.... no real reason to exist. Hear me out. The weapon is pretty bad at anything but single target, it's special makes it even better at single target and worse at crowds. The special of the mk V is the exact same copy and pasted onto a solid crowd controle weapon. I would say that swapping the light and push attacks would help but there's a NEW issue that would still be a problem for the mkXIX. Before now there was one argument for the XIX, the double chop heavy was a pretty good anti armor, single target chain that you could sustain well..... There were others but this one had no filler, just one to two hit kill chops on all basic mobs once you were able to get any stacks from perks or blessings going on a heavy attack build. Now the pickaxes do it better. Not only with more reach, but with mostly more compotent crowd control options as well. Like 5 of your melee weapons can one hit crushers. 2 of those 5 have good crowd control, 2 more of them need minimal support to hit most one two two shot breakpoints in game with basic attack chains. And one is the mk XIX latrine shovel.
Been trying to make the thunder hammer work, but it’s a weapon that requires so much investment for very little payout. I think they’ve balanced the weapon around zealots abilities (stealth and dash attack specifically) and consequently made the hammer incapable of holding its own. Using this hammer is just waiting for your ability to come off cooldown so it can actually kill something. Just let me do the big bonk
Literally named my zealot TheHammer day 1 because that's what I was going to use. I had to pay for a name change because not only did they take my suggestions for the thunder hammer and make them into a new weapon (that's a meme,) it has no use. You cover it in the video pretty well, but a melee for me is for horde clearing typically. Thunder Hammer pushing hordes around instead of killing them more or less invalidates it as a melee weapon. No horde clear, can't kill specials, and no tanks to bust so there's not much reason for it to be here.
I mean, ik taking other game and other Warhammer media sources, wouldnt the power of the hammer be scaled with the user ? so like, why its depicted being so strong is bc space marines use it ? no ?
Thammer should be S6 in the hands of a human. An ogryn on tabletop is T6, so you'd wound on a 4+. It has AP enough to give terminator armor a run for its money so carapace shouldn't offer a save. It does D3 damage and ogryn have 3 wounds on TT. So good odds of needing 2 attacks to kill 1 ogryn but possible to do it in one with a normal human stats profile. An inquisitorial acolyte typically has 2 attacks base. But its also a game so we gotta consider the internal balance to be fair.
Veteran main here, totally agree with this video, however I also think that the Power Swords also need a major buff. Their damage is fine, but power cycler in particular needs a reversion to it's old form. With the constant hordes of enemies, having yhe recharge every 3 swings in the middle of a LITERAL MOSH PIT OF A BATTLE is absolutely not possible sometimes between blocking and dodging. If I can't rely on my Anti-Matter sword, then at keast give us some of the old veteran perks for knife builfs that allow nore bleed stacks per hit.
Power sword is actually insanely OP. Its only downsides are the bad dodges and fondling the dongle mechanic. The weapon needs a rework entirely. But if you're having issues with it run Slaughterer and Power Cycler and you'll find the unpowered attacks are really quite strong into hordes. Obviously its incredible when charged but you don't even need it into basic guys.
As a day 1 thunder hammer enthusiast, I wholly agree with this. The fact that the Crucis routinely wastes a 60k damage, thrust IV, damage stimmed, 15 momentum stack zealot charge is not just criminal, its a fucking FELONY. I refuse to use the Crucis until this changes, and the fact that the Ironhelm has that disgusting heavy 3 makes it unusable unless you're constantly vigilant about where you are in your attack chain. Even with an optimal build, the value that the hammer can provide is extremely low given the sheer volume of heavily armored enemies in packs. Rager packs? Hope to god your teammates take some aggro... Mauler packs? I hope you've got time for 3 heavy swings per mauler... Dog packs? You're fucked... The thunder hammer needs to be able to one tap anything without armor on a light attack, even if they just made it swing slower...
FATSHARK!!!!!!!! DROP A THUNDERHAMMER BUFF AND MORE SISTERS OF BATTLE COSMETICS, AND MY MONEY IS YOURS!!!!!
We just need buffs for the poor thing so badly
Ironhelm heavy 3 is amazing just give it more time, and the value that u can bring with hammer is correlative on how hard u try to use it, rager packs can be easily solved with good positioning/block and FotF brings a lot of use with the little stun it gives them and ironhelm is a big help when they aren mixed in a big horde, same with maulers, is not hard to one body shot them with the correct build, and lastly dog packs can be killed very easily with horizontal heavys (3 or more dogs per swing, just wait for them in a tight space, in a open area yeah of course is gonna be hard is a big ahh hammer. I didn't try to bother, just trying to give my knowledge about hammers.
I do well with a flamer and Ironhelm build. Not at my console so I can't remember my blessings, but I know I have thrust on the Thammer
@@Hughjaoses8766 Thrust is a must take on thammer. It also makes H3 pretty strong.
@@Reginald-sc9tk I can't recall the names but my flamer uses the blessings that regen your toughness while in continuous fire (Inspiring Barrage?) And adds increased stagger to the standard fire mode and it compliments the slower hammer really well.
I will say that obviously my Mk IX Heavy Sword "Lawnmower" build is MUCH better but there isn't many things better than burning the heretic and then smashing him with a big Ole hammer
I hate how (almost) all the iconic 40k gear is either obnoxiously overpowered or woefully outclassed.
Why can't we have the cool gear feel good to use?
At least the chain weapons are in a decent place.
There was once upon a time when the boltgun and flamer were bar none the strongest weapons in the game by a very wide margin. Thammer was even decent pre patch 13. I’d say more weapons just need their damage and stagger buffed to match the insane increase in elite and special density. Most of the iconic gear has been kept at the same power or nerfed since the launch of the game while enemies have been buffed through the roof
I'm starting to think sweden is where the phrase "like taking candy from a baby" came from because between Fatshark and arrowhead they have done a poor job of representing sweden. its like those people like to ruin other people's fun. however that is only 2 so it just a coincidence and not a pattern yet
Don't forget that Payday 3 is also Sweden. Lmao
Yeah, we really need some love to. The iconic gear. The power sword needs adjusting but I think vetbabies would cry too hard, plasma probably should get toned down a hair on its cleave. Bolter needs love. Chain weapons are good.
@@Reginald-sc9tkI don’t remember where I heard this but I’ve always liked it. Give the weapons with activation specials a meter so they can stay on or off. The meter depletes on hit and recharges on a timer and unactivated kills so if you play aggressively you can use the fun powered mode more often, and power cycler could give back a percentage on kill. Not only would it help with the jank of activating your weapon special after ever hit while you have 100+ enemies in you face but also adds to the resource management gameplay that keeps you more engaged in the moment to moment. Plus I could just imagine how hard it would go to see a horde of enemies coming at you and keeping on the throttle of your chain weapon while ripping and tearing through them.
It's insane to me, that none of the power hammers onetap Crushers with special attack, but Branx just SMACKS a 3000 on a tiniest of a heavy charge.
@@whiskeypunch8012 A 1/2 ton Ogryn with a giant miner's pickaxe should one tap the canned meats, to be fair.
Then again... A two-handed shock maul swung by a hobo on amphetamines...
@@0bzen22 I'm not so sure even an ogryn with a pickaxe should be popping other ogryn in carapace in one hit. But if anything can its that and thammer. Sadly hammer cannot, lmao.
I mean to be fair, the Branx does 700+ damage on heavies and has armour piercing properties, if it _didn't_ absolutely mulch Crushers it'd be even more rage inducing
The worst crime is the gameplay of having to suffer through forced animation locks just to use the special attack is just not very engaging or interesting gameplay. Even if the numbers were balanced it would still feel clunky and sucky.
This is a common view and I get it. Personally I like the stun lock, I think its an engaging skill check that makes the weapon more interesting and cerebral to use. But you can't please everyone with a weapon design i think.
@@Reginald-sc9tk
The Self-stun to me communicates vast power, shame that it doesn't translate into the numbers
I think if the damage output was porportionate to the animation time i would be cool with it. The problem is that the damage from the special attack isnt high enough to make the animation lock feel worth it.
That's what we have variants for if nothing else. Could always reduce the self stun on the crucis & remove it on the ironhelm. Or make a new variant that doesn't have it in exchange for something else. Or add in a new blessing that removes the self-stun. There's lots of solutions around, Fatshark just has to do something beyond sitting on their log like a dead toad. Which is not their forte.
@@atticlion7648 so true
the pickaxe can EASILY not only stagger a crusher squad but also kill them quickly, meanwhile the thunderhammer will get you killed by the stagger alone and you wont be able to kill the crushers as easily. the thunderhammer is a high risk-no reward weapon
Nailed it, unlike the thammer. Which can't even drive a nail into wood
ALSO PLEASE LET OTHER PEOPLE HEAR IT GO "FFWWWGSSSHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Great points by the way. I'm a sad addict just for the sound at this point. You have to work so hard to make the Thammer good at high difficulties.
Thammer was my first love, before chain axe.
As a side suggestion, how about overkill damage on any target is factored into an AOE explosion, determining radius or stagger force or damage or any combination thereof? A fully buffed heavy special from the Crucis thus does not get completely wasted on hitting a poxie, the effect is scaled based on your time commitment beforehand rather than an on-off hard mechanic, but its still a lot less efficient than a Crusher doing it intentionally for crowd control.
As a huge fan of the lore of 40K, the Thunder Hammer in Darktide was deeply disappointing to me. Not being able to 1 shot Crushers and the like with it is fucking wild. In lore, Thunder Hammers are capable of 1 shotting Space Marines who are far more durable with their armour than an Ogryn. Not being able to 1 shot a Renegade Ogryn is heretical, let alone its light attack charged state failing to 1 shot even a basic Dreg Gunner with a headshot.
Agreed but a Space Marine sized Thunder hammer is bigger than a militarum one. Same as with Bolt guns there are Astartes scale ones and Human scale ones.
I would argue an ogryn in full carapace is much tougher in lore than a space marine. But thammer is fully capable of oneshotting either in lore. Its insane how pathetic thammer is in this game compared to lore. God emperor willing we see buffs.
It definitely should oneshot Crushers on damnation on a crit (ensuring the dash ult always can), there's no excuse for it not doing that, but I'm not so sure about doing it every time
@@sulphuric_glue4468 Until we nerf most other weapons that can currently already do this, then yes. Yes it should. Should we nerf 1shots on crushers? probably yeah. But we can't have the TH underperforming a chain axe.
Love how a thunder hammer can’t 1 shot most tanky enemies, yet a ogryn mk5 shovel special hit can
The thunder hammer felt best for me when you could cancel the special stun with a weapon swap. I'd rather have quicker swings over a safer aoe stun effect on a hit.
Thats a popular position. I get it. Personally I disliked that version the most as it had the least "weight". I like to play around weaknesses.
So true, if u were doing the special activation and a dog jump on you and u can't dodge cause no space or stuck with enemies u can't stop the animation, so you are going to get jump, one way to avoid that is using ult, change to range weapon or use a throwing blade.
I am completely aligned with improving the visual and physical effects eg. Bolter explosion and shockwaves (on charged armored enemy hits). But I feel like it needs more dmg associated with such an awesome effect. I want it to function more like spalling, where the shrapnel would rip through unarmored/infested/unyielding enemies in a small cone.
Imagine charging up a swing for a bulwark and instead of sidestepping the shield you hit it head on dealing about... I dunno ~500 to ~700 damage directly while staggering the adjacent horde types.
Id love something like that. I wonder if they could do it without a huge amount of effort.
There was a point in Darktide when they drop the class overhaul update where the Thunderhammer was one shotting crushers but was quickly nerf in a couple months after, not sure if the weapon had the same weaknesses like it is now but it will make sense to had them if they trade off was to high a REALLY HIGH single target weapon but with a really high risk.
It wasn't that thammer was nerfed it was that all the enemies got buffed
Oof, you reminded me. Tried it day 1, then threw it in the trash can. I love War-Hammers in Warhammer
Great rundown overall. I think the only weak point is 5:22 where it'd have been nice to provide an idea for
* specific targets where *unpowered lights* are your best attack, to contrast against...
* ...targets where *powered lights* are your best attack (which is already provided in the relevant section, I think)
The best weapon balance in Darktide requires that every attack is "best" in a certain situation, so just spelling out things verbatim like "lights should all be overheads and one-shot weakpoint scab bruisers (whatever the unarmored-head flak armor horde dudes are; I think "bruisers" might be right?), whereas have powered lights be good for killing gunner-tier enemies (ideally fairly quickly, but I think the reduced 0.3s self-stun time probably would help a _ton_ for that, so you maybe already have that covered)
Granted, "best attack" doesn't always have to be killing. If a reactionary light followup to any attack is just your fastest way to put out a medium-cleave stagger attack (so *not* necessarily great at killing anything, but quite excellent defensively to stagger several dangerous enemies) then that might work too.
I must be a special one, and not in a good way, for selecting trash weapons continuously.
I mained the chain sword at he beginning on Zealot before it was cool (now not so cool but anyways...).
Now I main the Crucis because of it's trash horde clear ability. I just like how it swings (like the chain sword) and staggers hordes. The monstrosity bonus damage is cool, but not the main attraction for me.
What's most annoying is the self-stun, and how unreliable the weapon generally is. You can hit a crusher with a heavy + powered in the face, and still get pancaked by him afterwards. Maybe it's my high latency Internet (Starlink).
Or just do a regular heavy swing on a mauler or crusher, and not stagger them. This should not require a perfect headshot to stagger one or several of those boys. Just consistency and stagger / interrupt, that's all.
Same with ragers, you can sometimes headshot them with a heavy attack, and nothing, they just continue shredding you, which makes dealing with ragers a nightmare with that weapon. Consistent stagger, and I'd be fine, even if it takes 20 seconds to kill one. I'm a patient man.
The heavy mauls attacks, or light powered attacks should automatically override their stun immunity and stagger them, so the weapon is more predictable and useful.
I think I can deal with the long self stun. You never power an attack in the middle of a bunch of crushers and maulers (or you're basically dead 50% of the time). You do that when you have an isolated target, and that's fine. But I want more consistency.
And yeah, it's weird how weak heavy powered attacks are against carapace. These should annihilate Armor, as that's what big blunt weapons were used for historically (anti-armor). Especially the Crucis, with its wedge-shaped end (like the Ogryn pickaxe). They were used to cave in Armor and be generally unpleasant, even when the target was also protected by thick padding underneath. Maces were really popular for anti-armor. Axes and pikes were too, but blunt weapons had less of a tendency to get stuck, anyway...
I guess I'll keep using it and using it wrong until they buff/fix it.
I haven't seen anyone mention it, but the Hammers have hidden (for whatever reasons) damage multipliers. On Flamers and Unyielding (reapers and bulwarks) they do an extra 3X damage on all Special attacks. This means a light special attack can kill a Flamer even when hitting the foot. It also has 9X on Hounds. Not sure if this info changes anything for anyone but worth mentioning.
As a Power Maul enjoyer I wish that we would get a one-handed power maul for the humaan classes. the Crusher and shock mauls are cool, but I really want a silly mace.
I vibe
I want to say the reason why the Thunder hammer is this way is because of the testers fatshark has currently to test updates and balances, arguably while they are good players apparently a common sentiment they have is to reduce the amount of stagger on weapons and reduce strong weapons by either making the strength a gimmick it can do or has enough of a skillcheck/downside tagged to it that its in a fine spot, which is why ogryn lost the rumbler headshot stagger on monsters as an example because it was easy to pull off and offered a great reward, and they also don't want any weapon capable of low effort monster killing hence why you need to basically use zealot assassin build and backshot a monster to get the insane damage tick.
it was wild to meet a couple and get a deep dive, but they have their own community in which they meet, talk and play damnation-aruric 5 on the balance of dark tide to send messages forward to fatshark who prioritize their feedback on balance. Its why the pickaxes that released were made the way they were because the light pickaxe use to have much higher stagger which made it hold hordes way better and the heaviest hitting pickaxe actually could 1 shot headshot crushers on 5 without needing to stack alot of stats to do it like it is now. It got removed because the stagger was enough to hold everything except armored elite type in the game "imagine the old vermintide 2 hammers on dwarf". I didn't ask about the middle pickaxe at all but was told that "it's basically the in-between of the balance we were looking towards" before it swung to the light pickaxe which was apparently overturned on pre-release for them.
A downside to this entire thing is that fatshark is not likely going to listen to any of us unless we manage to either get into the testing team or enough of the community sends hate at fatshark in which they will likely make something send it to the internal team with instructions and get feedback on the buffs for the thunderhammers, otherwise fatshark will actively ignore us as they are entirely focused on the crafting overhaul.
Well then I will just continue to pray for buffs and maybe leverage some contacts. Upshot of being a long time darktide tuber is just knowing a lot of people.
Yup, pretty much hit almost all of the pain points for the thunder hammer. The only things I have to add is that the self stun shouldn't prevent defensive actions, and move the ironhelm's overhead strike to the crucius.
The self stun should only be for offensive actions, so you could block and dodge after a charged hit, just not attack.
Moving the overhead strike to the crucius would give it a non-cleaving heavy attack so you could snipe individual targets with a heavy charged attack through grouped up enemies. The overhead strike on the ironhelm does literally nothing except annoy me by making me change my strike pattern to avoid using the overhead heavy attack, since it doesn't do additional damage over the cleaving attacks, and it hits much less targets, since the ironhelm charged heavies actually cleave. The only thing is that they'd have to make it only accessible after a push attack or something, since you can't cancel an upcoming overhead heavy with a charge, since that'll stop your next heavy from cleaving in horde situations.
May Fatshark see this and *do* something about it.
Great points as always. :)
It is mind blowing that a crit build with a knife can easily be a faster and safer chaff hoard clear, as well as armor clear as well as killing crushers than the thunder hammer.
This shit is supposed to be able to obliterate Greater Daemons right? Literal manifestations of doom and death are crushed under its weight and power. But not cultist gunners?
I get the argument of game play balance but to be fair the ogryn heavy stubber needs some love too, the range on what is essentially two 50 Cal LMGs is pathetic.
Bro I'm with you all around.
first remove the bad-at-game fanboys who kept brainwashing themselves into thinking hammer is good instead of just admit the hammer has issues(since release, before any nerf).
Covering my ears la-la-la can't hear you! Thunder hammer is perfect!
Hammer glazer here, as u probably with the chain axe i have give a lot of time to hammers (zealot lvl +700 - account lvl +1600) because it's literally my fav weapon, so after watching your video i can say a few things. I mostly agree with you in every point but a few things can be rethought. Vision-boss killer but not so hard: it is true that hammers can delete bosses without your team even getting to touch them, but on most ocasions this is made by good position, knowledge, stacked buffs or shroudfield, with this i say in a normal boss encounter a plague ogryn could take easily up to 4 hits and armored bosses (captains, rinda, rodin, etc) die faster with chain weapons, by this i mean that the overall damage doesn't need a big change, maybe shroudfield could se a rework/nerf on hammers but i really couldn't tell because i mostly use FotF. Pashe 1-7 That's a really good idea so crucis wouldn't be behind ironhelm and there will be a reason to prefer or experiece one over the other, but this could be a problem for ironhelm if breakpoints on crushers/elites are not reachead, this goes in hand with the next point. Pashe 2-1 If the selfstun is going to be the same on ironhelm on heavy hits but you don't gonna get that aoi from crucis, it's gonna feel the same fighting a group of 6 crushers, so you either give ironhelm an aio or reduce the selfstun of it. That's all u have some good ideas, some things i'll say, id like to see a better version of one of the more iconic weapons in sci-fi? yes, but i woundn't like to see something that overpowered and i honestly love the niche that it haves, is a high risk mid reward weapon but i don't want to see a powersword 1.0, a knife kitchen or CA+BM, i want to see something balance and something that is hard to use.
P.S. Inglish isn't my first language so some things could be hard or unreadable
I would specifically replace thrust with slow and steady. Removing a blessing would have a lot of issues and by replacing it with the other charged heavy skill that playstyle would feel still very encouraged.
Also, a experamental idea for the Ironhelm third heavy and heavies in general is maybe better innate cleave damage with less cleave targets total, combined with the third heavy being instead the first heavy in chain and only looped back two through other overhead lights.
The cleave idea I think plays into the idea of being a bit more anti croud/multi use than the raw umph of the crucius hammer and to make it have a more unique uncharged role in combat. The idea for the chain changes is more based off of complaints I've heard about it's awkwardness to handle due to the chain layout. I have relatively low time on zealot compaired to ogryn through so don't take my claims as gospil.
Same, I tried so hard to like it... but some enemies just grind its usefulness to a halt.
Thunder Hammers and Bolt weapons need huge DMG buffs.
My view would be - add a charge bar to the thunder hammer - say 3 charges - you hit special you use a charge - it is a 100% Critical chance on next hit. Takes 12s to recharge one charge - so using it tactically takes skill. A crusher mob would need skill to deal with.
That being said Fury of the Faithful (which most thunder hammer players will already be using) already gives you a guaranteed crit on your next melee attack, so I don't know how much that would help without any other changes
Bolt weapons definitely don't need dmg buffs. :) Add surgical and be surgical. Don't mag-dump. We don't need Crushers to die even more easily to some ranged attacks than they do now.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say on this. I have always thought the charge animation and self-stun for both hammers were far too punishing on higher difficulties even when Thrust was busted and allowed for one shotting Daemonhosts on a fully charged heavy. I think it's clear as day that the tHammers' special attacks need an armor penetration buff AND a damage buff besides in order to justify the self-stun costs of using them.
If it were possible to rebuild the attack chains to allow special ability activations to be worked into your combat flow in order to negate all or a large majority of the neutral charge/discharge animation lockouts then the weapon would gain substantial lethality in the hands of an enthusiast without needing the aforementioned AP/dmg buffs to be very large at all.
Nothing was funnier to me than watching j_sat's darkfeats with the quad thunderhammer melee only, and seeing the soul slowly drain out of four individuals as they realized over the course of 40 minutes just how bad the weapon was. and it's only gotten worse since then!
Really like the proposed thrust change. it really should just be an integral part of the weapon
Gonna have to find that
"Go home you rare, sacred artifact of Thunderhammer, I got a pointy knife against heavy armor. Yeeeah!" :P
Too true
hammer before thurst fix* was in pretty ok place imo, rewarding taking time for full setup, even if max dmg was capped.
I sometimes wonder if it would really be so terrible to just make the powered state be a toggle on/off. It'd certainly help give it a unique identity.
There's no reason you couldn't. With this weapon it'd be fine.
Different proposal, reduce the self stun to 0.1 seconds on special light attacks but once activated you can swing 3 times. Special attacks have close to infinite cleave until your hammer reaches something that has considerable hitmass
"would this be op?" it would probably still be just competitive with weapons like the knife and columnus.
Me with my two handed chain sword of the highest mark: light attack sweepy. Heavy attack crunchy. Me smash.
Me with the power hammer: I’m gonna bonk ya! I’m gonna bonk ya again! -_-
So the early Patch notes for some of the weapon and blessing changes for the 26th September "Unlocked and Loaded" Big Patch(tm) are out, impressive work by Strawhat given it's almost 3 weeks away. Would he interested to hear your thoughts:
Weapon Changes
Thunder Hammers
The Thunder Hammer family of weapons suffered for being over-specialized into the Monstrosity-removal niche, while being very underwhelming against most other threats and in general failing at keeping up with the increased intensity of high difficulty missions.
With the following changes we aimed at rebalancing the weapon to preserve its single-target focus, but also to make it more well rounded and more exciting to use in all situations.
While the upper end of the damage on Special activated attacks against the Unyielding armor type has been lowered to prevent unhealthy 1-shots of Monstrosity enemies, the damage against Carapace Armour has also been significantly increased to conversely be able to more effectively handle Elite enemies like Maulers and Crushers (potentially dispatching them with a single well placed hit).
The Light activated attack damage profiles have been improved to reward weakspot hits and to more easily eliminate any human-sized enemy.
The self-stun after a Special activated attack has been significantly reduced on both marks, and differentiated between Light and Heavy attacks.
This will make it way easier to find a window of time to deliver its devastating activated blows without being overly punished by other enemies.
Also, most Light and Heavy attacks have been improved in their damage and reach, to make the weapon more reliable in dealing with lesser enemies when not activated.
Both marks of the Thunder Hammer weapon family have also received some additional targeted changes, explained just below!
Dev Note: It’s also a hammer.
Detailed Changes
All Marks
Tweaked the damage profile for Light Special activated attacks:
Armor damage modifier vs Unyielding from {2.0,3.0} to 2.0.
Tweaked the damage profile for Heavy Special activated attacks:
Armor damage modifier vs Unyielding from {3.0,5.0} to 3.0.
Armor damage modifier vs Carapace Armour from 1.0 to 1.5.
Improved the headshot/critical damage bonus multiplier on all Light attack profiles:
Finesse boost from 0.3 to 0.5.
Improved the damage of the Light Strikedown attacks:
Attack power distribution from {150,300} to {180,350}.
Improved the damage of the Heavy Relentless attacks:
1st target attack power distribution from {150,300} to {180,350}
2nd target attack power distribution from {80,160} to {100,200}
3rd target attack power distribution from {50,100} to {75,150}.
Fixed several windup and attack actions which could be canceled by sprinting.
Crucis Mk II Thunder Hammer
The Crucis Mk II mark always boasted the higher damage compared to its Ironhelm Mk IV brother, but delivering that damage to the intended target was often difficult due to the horizontal direction of its Heavy attacks and the effective lack of cleave on Special activated attacks.
This led to not uncommon scenarios where a Heavy activated attack could be completely absorbed by a single intercepting Poxwalker, leaving the target enemy unscathed.
To give players more control on the situation, we added a new overhead Heavy attack to the weapon, only chainable after the Special activation action for a short period of time.
Also, a small amount of cleave was added to the Heavy activated attacks, meaning that the swing will be able to go through at least one lesser enemy.
These changes combined will make the weapon more reliable in delivering its devastating damage to the intended target.
Additionally, the damage profile of the Light 3 attack has been improved to reward players completing the attack chain instead of resetting it.
Detailed Changes - Crucis Mk II Thunder Hammer
Reduced the Self-stun duration after connecting with a Special activated attack:
Light stun from 1.3 to 0.3
Heavy stun from 1.3 to 0.5.
Tweaked the hitboxes and damage windows for most attacks to be more aligned with their animations.
Improved reach for all Light attacks and the Push follow-up attack.
Tweaked the speed and chain time for the Light 1 and Light 2 attacks:
Light 1
Slightly reduced the attack speed
Improved chain time to Light 2 / Heavy 2 attack start from 0.65 to 0.55.
Light 2
Significantly improved the attack speed.
Added a bespoke improved Light Strikedown damage profile to the Light 3 attack
Attack power distribution {200,380}
Finesse boost vs Unarmoured 0.75
Finesse boost vs Flak Armour 0.6.
Slightly improved reach for all Heavy attacks
Changed so that the Heavy 2 attack chains into Light 3 / Heavy 1 instead of Light 1 / Heavy 1 to give an alternate access to the improved Light 3 attack.
Special activated attack changes:
Added a small amount of cleave to Heavy activated attacks:
Cleave distribution {1.0,3.0}.
Attack power distribution {400,800} when cleaving.
Cannot cleave through Elites, Specialists, Monstrosities and Captains.
Added an attack start chain from the Special activate action, chaining into Light 1 and a unique Strikedown Heavy attack with a vertical animation.
Improved the duration of the Special activate buff from 4s to 5s.
Significantly improved the Light activated attack properties:
Attack power distribution from {300,600} to {400,750}
Finesse boost vs Unarmoured from 0.3 to 1.0
Finesse boost vs Flak Armour from 0.3 to 1.0
Finesse boost vs Maniac from 0.3 to 0.5
Overall Finesse multiplier curve from {0.25, 0.75} to {0.65, 1.15}.
Sounds like it is overall very close to what I have wanted. That sounds wonderful.
Likewise with the boltgun & bolt pistol changes are very close to what you suggested.
Not quite "full damage on arm hits" but close.
"Extended the radius of the hitscan for the bolt projectiles.
Dev Note: This will make the hitscan detection to be more generous and allow for shots that would have slightly missed the target to still be considered a hit.
Changed the bolt properties to ignore limbs on non-Monstrosity enemies when the projectile trajectory would have also hit their torso or head.
Dev Note: This will avoid situations where a bolt could be intercepted by the limbs of the enemies even when aiming at their center of mass, resulting in heavily reduced damage.
Armor damage modifier vs Carapace Armour from 0.4 to 0.5 (both near and far range).
Armor damage modifier vs Infested from 0.5 to 0.9 (near) / 1.0 (far).
Godwyn-Branx Pattern Bolt Pistol
Added cleave properties to the bolt projectiles. From no_cleave to {1.0,3.0}.
Dev Note: This will make it possible for the shot to hit the intended target instead of being fully absorbed by even a single minor enemy."
+ a few more.
I feel like taking notes from the power maul/crusher and added a aoe stagger/supress it would..... It wouldn't be fixed but it would at least be a good baseline buff to hold her over for now.
Plus the pause on hit wouldn't make the special charged attacks not be suicidal.
I was thinking it should feel more like those new pickaxes like the heavy and medium one bringing that hammer crashing down on the heads of the heretics when heavy attacking. any thoughts on the bolt pistol and rifle it seems to me like they have been done dirty or are poorly represented for some reason.
My thoughts on those are in my video reacting to JTC. But they need some karking buffs and some fixes
imagine when you charge it become a parry that act like a catachan that have power sword cleave if activated. a man can dream.
For more "loresh" dmg it can deal over 100500% dmg on activation, but recharge for 20-30 secs (being unavailanble to empower)
Don’t worry Space Marines 2 will be out soon with a real Thunder Hammer!!!!! ⚡️ 🔨
Not gonna lie their thammer looks worse from the gameplay I've watched hahahaha. Can't even oneshot a warrior form. Seems to do less boss damage than the ones in DT. Looking reaaal sad.
@@Reginald-sc9tk true. I think it cleaves. I’d hope some talents for the assault class buff it but time will tell. I’m itching to try Warhammer for the first time. May get dark tide. I’ll make sure to avoid the thunder hammer 😅
Can I just say one thing: no weapon is supposed to be "the best" weapon in Darktide and are supposed to be on the same level, ignoring the Lore and providing a great gameplay experience.
That said, it ends up that the hand-knife outperforms everything else in almost everything that I can't even fathom having as much fun with anything else than it, except for maybe the Deimos sword and the Sabre or whatever it is called (both Psyker weapons). And since all weapons on the Ogryn are shit, clunky, slow weapons, at least I get to one-tap Crushers with a latrine shovel.
But again, the premise that something is supposed to be "the best weapon" is just wrong and that kind of thinking ruins gameplay which, in it's core, should have the "a series of interesting choices" philosophy which should define all games (it's a Sid Meier quote describing video games).
Anyway, thank you for creating content.
On the one hand, I think you're right. On the other I think you're wrong.
The ideal balance is that everything is viable and nothing is without a valid home in the endgame. This is a matter of scale. The power gap scale between top and bottom should never be too large.
At the same time there is always going to be a "best" and "worst" meta weapon. Thats a fact. The more different weapons are from one another, the more that a "best" will emerge. Thus, right now, the knife is the best and the thunder hammer is the worst. It should be the other way around by lore. But everything should be viable
I agree completely, the self stun isnt the problem, not being able to hot the breakpoints is.
7:11 How I wish it feels
What I wanna know is will reginald be playing Space marine 2 in september.
Yes.
Powercreep killed this weapon. The self-stun off special hit is something theyve been either removing or not adding in new weapons, theres weapons that deal either higher single-hit or generally superior dps, it just feels like shit, it really feels like a "day 1" weapon: Outmoded.
I think if they just made it do more damage against humanoid enemies so you kill Maulers on charged heavy attacks it'd be good enough. The fact that their juryrigged armored head can withstand 2 or more direct heavy swings is ridiculous.
It is insane. But until crusher oneshots are harder to get for other weapons thammer not being able to do it is also insane so we gotta normalize. Ideally thammer would be king of crusher kills but it'd take 2 hits and everything else way more.
Low light and heavy attack damage. Too much setup required for impactful special attacks. One dominant blessing. The Eviscerators fixed these points, and they feel much better.
The Thunderhammers do have Crowd Control listed as a speciality, so I don't think their horde clear should be really weak.
Its a thunder hammer, the one in Space Marine 2 seems to mulch whole hordes of Gaunts. Why cant we get that here?
I think the hammer is perfectly balanced, and maulers are really attractive. If I was a mauler, which I’m not, I’d probably just join their side and apologize.
i really like the iron helm. i swap between it and my tigris mk x on my martyr build. i use thrust and momentum to do a jack of all trades type build. i got the relic for group stuns and support, flash grenades for revives, an ia lasgun to be my anti ranged specialist and mid to long range hoard clear spam stick.
I want the thunder hammer to be my favourite weapon. It's the one I was most keen on using, but it feels like it just lightly taps or bounces off everything.
Still wish the hammer had side to side swings as light attacks..
The overheads could also just do some damage. That might be ok too in my view.
You can access ironhelm heavy 3 by doing a push (pause for half a sec) then heavy. If you push attack, it won't work. It might not do more dmg doing this but it feels like it.
It does more damage than other heavies but not when using the special attack.
Let me gues, devs gona hear "Remove Thrust blessing" a do it, without other stuff?)
I hope they do the changes you suggest and I also think it would be cool if they would add a variant that has a 3 vanguard lights and 2 strikedown heavies so it could absolutely destroy 1 guy consistently
I dig it. I want saltzpire's funny thrust tho
How about changing the charged special heavy attack of the crucis to a vertical strike down instead of a horizontal swing. And the non charged heavy stays horizontal for horde-clear ?
Or make it possible to charge the ironhelm it mid combo to make use of the third heavy attack more
Good content, I concurr to the intention and message. And I will include you into my evening prayers to the emprah for the sheer amount of detail you put in this. Ive just popped my 1000h in DT, and the stuff I use , I got down. with the thunderhammers i was always just majorly underwhelmed. My knife works so muchb etter lol.
Yea, its a tragedy and may we see the end of it.
I kinda like the thammer for crowd control, but yeah, you're not gonna be killing a lot of stuff, and even in that role the crusher is better. I hope the rework the thammer to be worthy of the name
There is another thing the Thunder Hammer is unrivaled in:
Funny ragdolls
thats whats most important
I propose enhancing that actually.
FYI The new DarkShite patch nerfed the one shot to monstrocities now.
The new patch looks like 90% what I wanted. Hope it plays well. We'll have to see.
It should do incredible single target damage vs anything and have terrible clear or it's activation attack having a shockwave stun or stagger but instead I it feels as it should have a squeeky hammer effect when hitting anything, lore and game balance wise, if you have something designed to crush armour both man and tank grade it should do that and keep it's slow and steady attack speed... I am going to switch out to either chain weapon at this rate, even style points can't save it... speaking of sounds, it really needs it's discharge effect breaking your ear drums..
Very much this, it was usable a while back but with current balance it just not up to scratch with dps compared to its clunkiness.
It should be a clunkier weapon but the performance has to match that with damage and utility.
making thrust innate for TH would lock in headtaker and slaughterer for me and make TH probably pretty good at hoard clear
why go thunder hammer when you can go Eviserator :3
Exactly
The reason often is: front-loaded dmg vs. rear-loaded dmg.
But I get ya. Eviscerator balance is really good. You can use every part of the weapon and it feels meaningful. Thunderhammer attacks (particularly light attacks) are so weak that they should be avoided.
I recently started messing with it and my first two thoughts were, it doesn’t reach as far as you think it’s going to and it doesn’t do as much damage as it should.
The Iron-whatever’s third swing in the 3 heavy combo feels crappy as well
Heavy 3 takes getting used to. It's actually goated but it doesn't seem like it at first.
This may be a hottake from a hammer main like myself, i just dont see an issue With the hammer aside from the light attack. It can fit anywhere. I see what ur saying tho ofc. The reach is a little...annoying. especially when ur trying to solo a deamonhost or any other bosses when ur team js dead or hurt and u need space which is what the zealot is typically used for. Making space for ur team to move uo by killing bigger enemies. I personally feel like making it lore accurate would cause an imbalance tho. Maybe close or individual buffs against stuff like maulers and crushers but not bosses as the dmg rests fine where it is. I do agree with a good bit of ur points tho and that rework u noted sounds like nothing but a positive really good video!!!
Thammer having its monstrosity damage nerfed in exchange for utility elsewhere is something that makes so much sense. It makes monstrosity maelstrom with a thammer user not a boring cakewalk, and it makes the weapon less insanely pigeon holed.
Exactly! I'm pleased you agree friend.
I'm gonna be real, I use the Ironhelm in most of my builds and I think it's one of the best weapons in the game. Why? Huge stagger and stagger cleave. 20 poxwalkers? On the floor. Crusher? On his ass. Daemonhost? They're gonna feel it for sure. The damage is low, but that's not the important part balance-wise. I can live through anything since the enemies are too concussed to even attack. It's a very defensive weapon. If you add damage you just get a better version of what other weapons already are, and that's lame.
Just use the crusher. Its literally everything you describe and does damage. Hence the need to give the thammer something.
In lore Thammer: One of the most respected "I am not fucking with that guy" weapons that are documented as being able to allow a mortal to actively fuck up Astarties.
In game Thammer: a decorative rock sledge with a sparkle button.
Really the only reason to use a Hammer is to kill single target bosses, and even then the chance to wiff with the boss killer build is super high, and you still have to do a bunch of prep work/positioning/praying nothing stands within 5 feet of you during wind up.
Yeaaap
Its great for deleting Deamonhosts and thats about it.
i got ripped to shreds for saying this. ironhelm cant even one shot a crusher with wounds+chastise+special+thrust it needs better carapace damage
I think you can get a 1tap with FotF and martyrdom with thrust. But you need an absurdly good hammer roll to do it. But yes, they need buffs including the ironhel.
I’m kinda hoping they give it power cycler and give the ogryn’s power maul power cycler. That would turn those 2 weapons into powerhouses like the power sword. Really hope the talent/perk overhaul adds new perks or rework the crappy ones into new ones.
What would power cycler even do on thammer?
@@Reginald-sc9tk maybe it could only be a tier 4 blessing, but allow you to swing twice before you have to charge it again. 3 swings like the power sword would probably be too much, but it’s odd to me the other power weapons don’t have power cycler.
Best weapon is uncanny lacerate letter opener and grandpa's handcannon revolver
Correct.
@@Reginald-sc9tk God is weeping
It doesn't do enough more damage than the eviscerators to monsters for it to really be worth it. It's probably the same for chain axes, but you would know better than I for chain axes :P
You're right. Its better than the chain weapons at boss bonking but not enough that it matters when you consider everything else you lose.
fatshark, hire this man as a consultant right away, I would love to go back to maining zealot, but my immense disappointment in the thunder hammer sent me to psyker
Wouldn't that be fun?
Haven't played in a long while. I'm glad the thunder hammer was at least knocked down a couple pegs. It's unfortunate they knocked it down to many pegs.
i'd love the thunder hammer if it had an AoE effect. i mean if it would send 3-5 little guys flying and would stun 1-2 bigger, it would be insane, but this single target stuff, nuh can't even consider it
I haven't gone back to THs since I tried out ignatus maul. It's fast, better stagger and has proper cleave.
Yep, indy got great buffs some time back.
Whats the website/spreadsheet with the weapons ttk that pops up @ 3:00?
There's a video called Data for the Data god in my catalogue. Its my custom dataset, I made it. It has flaws but you can get it on that video's description.
Selfstun should be removed at all or allow you to dodge during recovery. In current state even 0.3s guaranted suicide against pack of crushers, just 100% confirmed overhead from other crushers in pack after your first hit.
While I am sympathetic to your plight, you absolutely can kill an entire patrol of crushers with the current thammer. You can watch my data collection videos where I consistently preform this feat.
@@Reginald-sc9tk you can, but what the point? While you dancing around trying to find moment to strike, any ogryn with branx, any bolter/plasma vet, any void/trauma psyker can kill whole pack by himself without flaws
@@jebedyan Yes, hence my suggestions in this video to eliminate these issues. Improved reach and consistent one-shot should solve the issue. I'm very confident.
meanwhile in vermintide a greathammer can 3 light hit Chaos warriors which is quinstessentially a crusher just because its Melee focused there
Its a disaster of a weapon
Dude they haven't fixed the elevator bug on the carnival map in months, they ain't doin any of these changes. They're too busy focusing on shitty vermintide 2 and shtty pvp.
if they do this i may actually put my Eviscerator and dagger down for awhile
Mr.Reginald, can you help a fella out please? Can you advise on a better optimised set of settings for Darktide please as I've tried ALL SORTS of settings, mods, etc and it still seems to dip way lower than my system specs SAY it should dip to ;?
Not my forte, but are you experiencing frame rate drops?
@@Reginald-sc9tk Aye bud, it's not great considering I've got a Ryzen 7 an a 3070ti. I expected a bit better than dropping down to 40 frames sometimes in the heat of battle D: RTX aint on or anything either, just seems to wanna run like garbage no matter what I tweak from dropping EVERY setting to lowest to a mix or high and low to chaninging the threads in the launcher etc :D If yous aint sure about it bud don't worry about it though :) Thanks for the reply
holly shit totally agree im reaching my 1k hours on the game and i totally agree with you this will make it so much fun
Hey, ik you mostly specialize in zealot but something I'm curious if you'd be interested in covering the mk XIX latrine shovel. And potential reworks.
The weapon isn't insanely bad in a vacuum, but it struggles from having.... no real reason to exist. Hear me out.
The weapon is pretty bad at anything but single target, it's special makes it even better at single target and worse at crowds. The special of the mk V is the exact same copy and pasted onto a solid crowd controle weapon. I would say that swapping the light and push attacks would help but there's a NEW issue that would still be a problem for the mkXIX.
Before now there was one argument for the XIX, the double chop heavy was a pretty good anti armor, single target chain that you could sustain well..... There were others but this one had no filler, just one to two hit kill chops on all basic mobs once you were able to get any stacks from perks or blessings going on a heavy attack build.
Now the pickaxes do it better. Not only with more reach, but with mostly more compotent crowd control options as well.
Like 5 of your melee weapons can one hit crushers. 2 of those 5 have good crowd control, 2 more of them need minimal support to hit most one two two shot breakpoints in game with basic attack chains. And one is the mk XIX latrine shovel.
I'm interested in this subject. So your objective then is to find a new home for the XIX?
Know since day one hammers needed a buff
Been trying to make the thunder hammer work, but it’s a weapon that requires so much investment for very little payout. I think they’ve balanced the weapon around zealots abilities (stealth and dash attack specifically) and consequently made the hammer incapable of holding its own. Using this hammer is just waiting for your ability to come off cooldown so it can actually kill something. Just let me do the big bonk
Agreed
When devs count dps instead of average TTK you end up a failure with balancing.
it needs charges. maybe 3. and ofc be able to kill with light specials
"JUST LIFT BRO" zelot has to start hit the gym with ogryn.
Literally named my zealot TheHammer day 1 because that's what I was going to use. I had to pay for a name change because not only did they take my suggestions for the thunder hammer and make them into a new weapon (that's a meme,) it has no use. You cover it in the video pretty well, but a melee for me is for horde clearing typically. Thunder Hammer pushing hordes around instead of killing them more or less invalidates it as a melee weapon. No horde clear, can't kill specials, and no tanks to bust so there's not much reason for it to be here.
hammers were also very.... interesting in vtm2 with really bad cleave making them genuinely not enjoyable to use imo
Where can I find that spreadsheet or weapon database tool you show in the video?
Check a video in my catalogue called data time
@@Reginald-sc9tk will do! Thanks
I mean, ik taking other game and other Warhammer media sources, wouldnt the power of the hammer be scaled with the user ? so like, why its depicted being so strong is bc space marines use it ? no ?
Thammer should be S6 in the hands of a human. An ogryn on tabletop is T6, so you'd wound on a 4+. It has AP enough to give terminator armor a run for its money so carapace shouldn't offer a save. It does D3 damage and ogryn have 3 wounds on TT. So good odds of needing 2 attacks to kill 1 ogryn but possible to do it in one with a normal human stats profile. An inquisitorial acolyte typically has 2 attacks base. But its also a game so we gotta consider the internal balance to be fair.
I honestly prefer the power mall to be able to bat crowds around
Ever since the Thunder hammer nerf, Jane Warhammer weeps… her poor hamner doesn’t kill daemonhosts nearly enough as it once did
Yeah, I think these would be good changes.
Veteran main here, totally agree with this video, however I also think that the Power Swords also need a major buff. Their damage is fine, but power cycler in particular needs a reversion to it's old form. With the constant hordes of enemies, having yhe recharge every 3 swings in the middle of a LITERAL MOSH PIT OF A BATTLE is absolutely not possible sometimes between blocking and dodging. If I can't rely on my Anti-Matter sword, then at keast give us some of the old veteran perks for knife builfs that allow nore bleed stacks per hit.
Power sword is actually insanely OP. Its only downsides are the bad dodges and fondling the dongle mechanic. The weapon needs a rework entirely. But if you're having issues with it run Slaughterer and Power Cycler and you'll find the unpowered attacks are really quite strong into hordes. Obviously its incredible when charged but you don't even need it into basic guys.
I had to drop it for the chainsword (my beloved)
I refuse to use the thunder hammer because it makes me horribly motion sick.
Bonk bat all the way or a chain weapon
Thunder hammer is just in the game to save ammo on bosses.