one note abouit power weapons they do not require strength to use, the field over the blade disrupts matter, so technically and this is even shown in books a human sized 1h power sword can even pierce terminator armour
I should've clarified more because this keeps coming up. I know normal humans can use power weapons, but I was speaking more about Astartes' power weapons. From my understanding, I thought there was an Astartes specific design that was meant only for elite soldiers, but correct me if I am wrong.
@@Sgumby1 Maybe not for "Elite Soldiers", but for Astartes, yes. There would be a design specifically for them. ... but that's all about size ^^' A space Marine is about 50% larger than a human. And then they have Power Armour on top of that. No weapon designed for them can be reasonably wielded by a regular-sized human.
Depending on the strength of the disruptor field they do require the handler to be a certain level of durable to use. Luce Spinoza in Argent picks up a chaplain's crozius and uses it in an emergency situation. Despite her power armor she shatters the bones in her arms when swinging it. The chaplain later gets the crozius reworked so that a regular human can use it and gifts it to her.
@@Sgumby1 Nah, commissars have power weapons on the regular. So they're around, but newly minted regiments, planetary militia and the like would have basically none most of the time. Darktide is the inquisition. So, while the tactic of giving power weapons to convicts is questionable, the inquisition has the supplies for it for sure. But since that and bolt/plasma weapons are locked behind respect level or whatever, you do have to earn it. Astartes pattern stuff is just bigger and better most of the time.
The power level between the two can be summed up in saying: the main foes that you fight for your life against in Darktide, literally die when you walk through them in SM2
In the old Eye of Terror novel, a single daemonette was able to affect the minds of regular people seeing one for the first time while marines were unfazed. In the same novel two greater daemons basically use a pair of planets to play a game of interplanetary chess, then leave once they get bored, leaving the two planets fighting a perpetual war for the favour of deities that have abandoned them.
Rejects: Fighting an astray regiment that has BARELY gained Nurgle’s notice let alone his favor. Space Marines: Fighting not only Thousand Sons but a Lord of Change that melts people’s psyche by them LOOKING AT IT.
I think the powerlevel in both universes are quite well done. Both obviously want to give people more then the character they play could logiclly defeat (Beast of Nurgle / Lord of Change) but otherwise it doesn't exceed the powerlevels that much.
@@lordhandsomeswag1854 eh, the darktide characters are very much anomalies--if ciaphas cain can keep up with a marine in melee, the rejects in darktide could pull off a similar feat.
And for me it's kind of a bummer. As indeed it's way up there class. Even the sheer number of enemies you face. We are speaking of 4 guys with minimal equipment and training against military trained and equipped guardsman. For me, Darktide should have been some kind of horror/survival in the hive + inquiry type of game. Still great However.
@@Northilink "minimal equipment and training" Ogryn be like : Veteran be like : Psyker be like : Zealot be like : These guys are not "minimally trained". Nor are they this badly equipped. In the lore, veteran guardsmens for instance are really, REALLY hardcore motherfuckers who routinely went toe to toe with the deadliest xenos the galaxy had to offer and not only survived but largely won. This tells you something, these guys are not your average guardsman, and your average guardsman is not your average conscript.
@@KalashVodka175 Weird when people say stuff like that isnt it. You would think the title of the class being for example "Veteran" would be enough of an indicator that they are not "Minimally trained". So no idea what that fella is talking about. At the end of the day none of the classes we play are "just" anything.
@@rock2k14 Yeah. Honestly the only one I had my doubt about is the zealot, but then again by definition a zealot is someone so ingrained into a belief, ideology or religion that they would forego their own life without a doubt for the cause, which in and of itself would put them above most others in a life and death scenario I imagine the zealot likely participated in warfare as a regimental priest which would be more than enough to justify their capacity in darktide
@@Sgumby1I think that’s the point of darktide though. Just as you’re trying to prevent the planet from becoming a Nurgle demon world, your goal in that scenario would be to destroy the cult before their psychic beacon calls in the fleet
@@Sgumby1 It would end up being similar to what the guard in SM2 deals with. And yea, they're usually 10+ in numbers with 3 Space Marines backing them up and me trying my best to keep them alive. Usually I'm lucky if 1-3 of them are still alive by the end of it, and that's with Titus pulling some Salamander tier self sacrificing and almost dying to keep the guardsmen safe. It would be like fighting a horde of nothing but pox hounds except they're twice the size.
Give the rejects some credit, they are literally fighting Daemon Hosts, Chaos Beasts, Chaos Ogryns, Traitor Guardsmen, Poxwalkers and all the nasty diseases of Nurgle.
I will have to add, that Talasa also encounters and defeats a Daemonhost. ..and that just proves that the Cult of Admonition is just shite at making Daemonhosts. Because the one the Thousand Sons conjured up as a vox jammer is a WHOLE lot more terrifying than the half-starved pushover ragdolls the Admonition litters about Atoma's streets
Hey hey don’t think this video was made to bash darktide. I love darktide, and I love the rejects as if they were tf2 characters. I was stating that if tertium faced a planetary invasion by tyranids, we would probably have a hard time. I am all for adding tyranids, orks, etc to the game, I just think it’d be rough on the 4 guys to withstand what we saw in sm2
@@Sgumby1 im thinking if we were to have something done with the tyranids, it would be a genestealer cult of some kind, significantly less true tyranids to fight, but plenty of hybrids
@@Sgumby1 but you cant deny, the rejects grew stronger within an extremely short time. From a lowly criminal, struggling with common soldiers and hordes, growing up to a daemon slaying archheretic killer. And that within only a couple of days or weeks. From level 1 to level 30 all rejects more then tripled their strenght. So who knows how much stronger they may become if given time, challenge and tools. Perhaps with the introduction of Tyranid and/or Ork dlc's, we may eventualy reach level 45 or even 60. Then it would be a more then fair fight.
IDK if you played the entire game but there is entire squads of Cadians that withstand the powers of the warp. it depends on the person. I wouldn't put it against those employed by the inquisition to be better conditioned against this kind of power.
Even darktides shows it's hit and miss who can resist chaos in one of the cutscenes on the ship a guardsman sees chaos marks and they go insane but a few others resist it.
I think a huge thing is the fact that the vast majority of Guardsmen don't even know about the warp or chaos. So they aren't going to know how to shield against it's effects. And yh you'd think a soldier for the Inquisition would be much better mentally against such things due to training and knowledge.
Got to remember though… these are cadians whose homeworld was the lynchpin for keeping Chaos contained within the eye of terror… it makes sense they are more likely to be able to resist the powers of chaos due to their homeworlds former proximity to the galaxy’s largest warp rift and the inquisition and commisariat constantly pruning their population of traitors and heretics.
My favourite of the corrupted Cadians is a woman you can hear who is succumbing but fighting the corruption by trying to remind herself that she is a daughter of Cadia.
I mean there's a reason the track "Disposal Unit" is the most iconic one from Darktide. Right down to the name, it encapsulates what the game is about.
I love that description. "Uh, there's an abominable cult down here." "Is that so? Well, kill it please. We don't have all day for such trivialities..."
I want ot add that Orks could definitely work in Darktide, Gretchin/Grots and Squigs as the Horde enemy, regular Ork Boyz and Lootas as Specialist, 'Ard Boyz and Nobz as Elites, Meganobz and baby Squiggoths as Monstrosities.
The average Ork boy is nearly as strong as a Space Marine and just about as big... The average human can gun them down with a Lasgun but the moment those Orks get within close combat it's not a battlefield anymore it's going to be a slaughter house. So if you want the game to be you can shoot them down with half a mag of ammo but if they so much as sneeze on you your ripped in half by all means ask for them. lol
@@taliawtf6944 An Ogryn is stronger than a Boss Nob, let alone a Boy. Tabletop, 3 wounds vs 2 and 6 toughness vs 5. A Boy is only 1 Wound, Toughness 5, 5+ save not really that impressive.
I can definitely see them being sent behind ork lines and fighting the Ork rear guard (which are almost always grots) enable to sabotage supplies, artillery, and vehicles to aid the wider war effort.
@@taliawtf6944No they're really not, that is such a common misconception, Boyz are slightly stronger than humans, Nobs and Astartes and comparable. And then there's the fact that our little group of elites (which is what they are, even the guardsmen is a Veteran, he's not some new recruit) routinely slaughter armed and armoured Ogryns, which in the lore are about as strong and durable as an Astartes, but with the intelligence of a downs syndrome child and without the neat toys like power armour, so yes, Orks absolutely would work. Makes it even funnier when you say an Ork would rip us in two when we routinely block Ogryns blows, which could tear an Ork boy in half with its bare hands.
Rejects routinely barge into a Nurgle infested underhive AS A TEAM OF FOUR and slay like 3000 enemies in under 1/2 hour with rusty shanks and shovels. AND COME OUT ALIVE. As far as regular 40k humans go, rejects are definitely top tier warriors.
Honestly very fair, a squad of rejects would like be able to *survive* in a SM2 mission, fighting majoris enemies as very tough elites…. Until a lictor or zoanthrope showed up, and the squad would be wiped lmao
To be fair that's because most of those enemies are pox ridden zombies that shuffle towards you with without much thought or strategy The Moebian 6th, the highly trained elites traitor guardsmen are roughly spread out through the hive city using pox walkers and poorly armed cultists to bolster their ranks from a narrative perspective we're supposed to be the miracle best of the best of the rejects and conscripts Inquisitor Grendyl is throwing at the problem en mass because his Inquisitorial storm troopers are being picked off and they can't recoup their losses any other way, you compare these poorly supplied Traitor guardsmen with cultists/ mutant support to an other traitor guardsmen forces that actually use guns, tanks, aircraft, and artillery and we're not too impressive anymore when we're just cutting down mostly diseased zombies being used as cannon fodder by the Moebian 6th 😞 A space marines detachment would eat this chaos uprising we're fighting tooth n nail against for breakfast, especially if they were Blood angels or Ravengaurd, the former being champions of melee and the ladder being infiltration and stealth masters, the things 2 things we've got going for us 😓
The voice acting is another example. In Darktide, the rejects often scream and yell due to the adrenaline of fighting. In SM2, all the space marines sound completely calm and composed at all times.
That's honestly just a Space Marine 2 thing. Marines in general are depicted as some loud MFs, barking orders and insults at anything close to them. Remember the wisest.words of the Codex Astartes: EAT BOLTGUN
yeah I love that the rejects in darktide would be obliterated by the thousands sons or tyranids, they even say in darktide "why are we here when a squad of space marines can blow through these heretics with ease" it shows how spread thin the imperium is and how different threat factors play into the deployment of space marines, they would definitely dispatch them if the rejects had to face off against plague marines.
The fact is in the lore, Space marines are a tiny, tiny part of the imperium military. They cannot be everywhere and most warzones simply don't have present for chaos or Imperium side. Darktide is very true to the lore with that. Titus and team (or any three of the Operations 6 man squad) would breeze through every mission on Darktide with ease, only threatened maybe by Ogryn or the monstrosities. Meanwhile take a four man team of the 21 personalities in darktide and put them where Titus is and they'd be wiped out. Maybe all 21 together with appropriate gear from their armory would stand some chance. Which means the two games do their jobs of showing how two different warzones are.
Even proper Imperial Guard forces are a tier above rejects. Armour and artillery support, proper training, and funny enough specialization. Cadians are trained as all purpose shock infantry. The Imperium literally has entire Guard regiments tailored to specific environments and tactics. You're not just send thousands of men to drown the enemy in bodies, you're deploying a proper army with recon scouts, dedicated vehicle support, and thousands of legitimate military trained personal with their kit and said training fully customized to their style of warfare and environment. Hell, I sadly forget the name, but there's a story where a CHAOS SPACE MARINE WARLORD scolds a subordinate because while a single guardsman dies easily, even said warlord had to think twice before actually taking on the Guard in a fortified position.
Space Marines act at their own will, for the most part, they go where they feel they are needed, usually that's when aid is requested, but even then they might just be like "eh, not our problem" it takes high Imperial authority (like an Inquisitor, hint hint) to compel them anywhere. Conversely, even if aid hasn't been called if they feel a cause is good enough they might just show up on their own even if they're unwanted. They the sledgehammer, and the rejects are working overtime to keep the Chaos infestation from coming under their notice. The Inquisitor knows the strategic importance of Atoma, and the consequences of a Marine Chapter descending upon the hive. The manufacturing capacities could be completely devastated as they rampage through the infested levels cleansing the taint. At high levels the rejects are welcomed into the Warband, which puts them as top Imperial agents, with authority above Marines, with access to unparalleled equipment that even Marines don't get. We don't get that on Atoma because Grendyl is keeping it all hush-hush, so requisitioning such gear would bring a spotlight, so we get to reclaim and scavenge gear for the moment, but if needs arose, it would be available. But they'd be used as needed to strike at priority targets, ones even Marines couldn't deal with.
@@imperialofficerremusblackw8452 Funny enough, Darktide has a new loyalist regiment coming in with implication they'll be taking over as a primary offensive unit, with rejects supporting and the 21st continuing to hold the line.
likewise, if the darktide characters were in space marine 2 theyd only be the grunts/minions you one shot without any effort, at most just an elite unit level.
On the topic of that Darktide segment. The only complaint about Darktide being lore inaccurate is the fact that lasguns have recoil. Everything else seems to be on point besides that. The power weapons are bruised third hand weapons and explains why they can’t hold a charge for too long. Also the bolter weapons, people usually forget that the bolter guns that the Space Marines use is of a higher caliber of ammunition than what the rest of the Imperial forces use. The in game the bolt guns are those of the carbine series, the same ones that the Sisters of Battle and the Arabites use. They fire a smaller caliber of ammunition more suited for average human strength and as a result the damage it can do is less than that of what you see in Space Marines 2.
Lasguns have recoil in most Black Library books tbh. I think theres this fixation on lasgun being literally laser guns when clearly it seems not to be case, Luetin made a video on it and his conclusion is this : Lasguns exist in so many variants and patterns that one can't even really claim to know what they are, whether they have recoil or not. Above all they are directed energy weapons that seems to be firing what appears to be focused light, but their inner mechanisms that we do not know about might cause some form of recoil
Yeah it's a plot point (minor as it is) that everything Brunt sells is recovered wargear from the battlefield, reject, inquisition guardsmen, or moebian 21st alike.
@@KalashVodka175 BL canon is all over the place. Codex lore states that they're recoilless weapons with few moving parts which feeds into why they were adopted. Very little maintenance and training required, perfect for arming troops en masse. They get the Accurate perk in tabletop games like Dark Heresy as well for that reason.
lasgun is a catchall for alot of different guns. Some have recoil and others don't. It just depends on which actual model they are making and that usually just changes based on where they are from. Lasgun level blueprints were given out pretty freely by the emp when he went around doing his thing, gotta arm the rabble. (really tho recoil is cool and thats the real reason)
Darktide gave me such trauma that I stopped playing it. It was really a stressful game. And that music, when mission is complete and hordes after hordes are coming, there are barely any bullet left and I am running towards the plane.... man, I felt like literally I am running for my life there. Darktide is on point from that perspective, we are not really expected to come back from any mission, when we come back it felt like we barely survived. While on space marine 2, I am playing a hero, and doing heroic stunts. There is harder difficulty, yes, but it is not traumatic.
Darktide is at the very beginning of a relatively minor chaos infestation. Sure it's popping up in a location that is deemed important, but it hasn't gotten nearly as bad as it could yet. I would love if they had some space marines show up in a cinematic style mission and they just walk through an area that would be impossible for the rejects to clear. Show how out classed we are by just one or 2 marines.
i think one of the best comparisons is the fact that in space marine 2 you can kill the cultist soldiers by walking into them. and they are a good comparison to the traitor gaurd in darktide. Also there was this story where an chaplains crozius got dropped because he got hit by a beast of nurgle than a inquisitorial aprentice took it broke the beast of nurgles back in a single strike, but the power from that strike broke both of her arms and she was wearing power armour. For context a crozius is basicly a thunder hammer. Now in this example it was an space marines power weapon. This comes from the short story argent wich is part of the vaults of terra novels.
Arbites pattern bolters like the rejects use are mass produced, average quality steel weapons with a small 12-24 round magazines which are non automatic and fire 20mm rounds. Even then they are at the limit of what a regular human can wield. Space marines use the Godwyn pattern bolter that is crafted from adamantium and ceramite, is fully automatic, fires 40mm grenades and had a 60 round magazine. They often weigh as much as 80kg and marines regularly fire them one handed.
TBF, by the end of the Space Marine campaign (spoilers ahead), Titus and Co are basically doing what Grey Knights should be doing. Going into that little pocket dimension to fuck up a Tzeench sorcerer and fighting a greater daemon is no easy feat, even for Marines.
2:05 you can see the Cadians still standing have purple eyes, meaning they survived the destruction of their home world, while the cadians with non purple eyes are most likely from “New Cadia.” So yeah ordinary humans can’t really handle seeing the warp, trueborn Cadians can
Fantastic video! Just a note: the rejects (max levels ones especially) are basically implied to be amongst the best that baseline humanity has to offer on a battlefield. Like, think Gaunt's Ghosts and turn the notch up one tic. We're still just glorified janitors on a relatively clean planet, but we're punching at weight classes that would have a commissar take one look and shut the fuck right up. If a novel were written on our exploits, we'd be insufferable Gary Stu's/Mary Sue's. Edit: for those familiar with Alfabusa's TTS, we're basically the Cato Sicarius of the Inquisition.
Thank you! And true, we are VERY strong in Darktide I absolutely did not mean to detract from our feats in Darktide. The strongest point I was trying to convey was more along the lines of "it can get MUCH worse than what we see on Tertium."
By the end of the leveling story, we are officially inquisitorial warband members, veterans are Rambo, zealots are truly blessed, all the ogryns have bone head implants, the schola proginium is the next tier of mortal fighting forces.
There was a book about space marines of the Iron Hands chapter sieging hive city, that was infested with cult of Slaanesh. Space Marines there were leading assault against daemon prince, who is in charge of the cult, while local ragtag militia did sabotage on hive city critical infrastructure. If there ever will crossover between Space Marine II and Dark Tide, it will be something like that. I would be glad to see this kind of game, but probably this won't happen in my lifetime.
I agree. A crossover would be fantastic and I wouldn’t rule it out. I wouldn’t anticipate it, but I think fatshark has been pivoting the game to set it up in a state that they can finally stop worrying about talent, crafting, weapon, and “customization” modifying being a priority and start worrying about fleshing out the maps, enemies, and stories. We’ll see what happens
If we ever see any space marines on Atoma, it will either be some grey knights blasting their way through a horde in the background of a mission, or something like a death guard character as the final boss of a mission like the Karnak twins.
@@tau-5794 Grey Knights wouldn't come to Atoma, the type of daemons running around there are far below what they're usually called for. We won't see a Death Guard Marine either, because there is no chance in hell 4 rejects are gonna win that fight unless the Death Guard spawns in with a massive disadvantage.
Canonically, ogryns are stronger than space marines. They're like grizzly bears vs. world champion bodybuilders. In one novel: an ogryn killed a chaos marine by knocking his head off with a big friendly rock.
I think it’d be a sick dark tide mission if you meet a space marine. Not even play as him but have him accompany you to a location, and while he’s devastating the enemy your like the guardsmen you meet in space marine 2
Would be cool if it's something like him fighting on another path that you see every once in a while just bodying ogryns and occasionally meet up throughout the mission, even something like thought would be a fun addition, could be used to hint that they are there dealing with something much worse. Could be a event even
@@shoulderpyro Daemonhosts vary greatly, depending on the process used to make it AND what daemon is bound. The daemonhosts in Darktide are used more as landmines then actual tools, left with barely functional civilians fighting for control until Inquisition forces get close.
This is why I don’t understand why people are rattled by this video. There’s a lot of variance in lore when it comes to a video game. At the end of the day, I’m reading lore to enjoy the reality of a fantasy universe, I’m playing a video game to enjoy the gameplay.
If you listen to the deamonhost before you trigger it, the human part is still activly fighting against the Deamon for control. I think that is why it is so weak.
Also cool fact about the cadians that were corrupted in SM2. The cadians that are influenced/slowly getting corrupted dont have puprle eyes, but cadians that are still fighting and helping have purple eyes
I love how a lot of people were saying "they should add a Chaos Space Marine as a boss fight", like a single Death Guard marine wouldn't single handedly kill any and all rejects in the ship. It would be like toddlers trying to kill you, but you have a Desert Eagle with infinite ammo to defend yourself.
I mean, the Rejects are fighting Beasts of Nurgle, which are stronger then plague marines in the tabletop. They're each 1v1ing Plague Ogryns (which are capable of dismembering a traitor marine with their bare hands if they catch them). The idea that the 4 player rejects could overpower a single un-named plague marine is actually fairly reasonable given their power scaling. Space Marines are powerful, but their powerscailing isn't as high as most assume.
I go by the idea of a very hurted, fucked up and mangled Death Guard, and that, you don't have to kill it, but run from it, closing doors on his face, making servitors fight it, maybe a mission of retriving an artifact and bringing it back to the Mechanicus before it gets corrupted. I can see the tensions being very high with people being like ,''Yeah, 4 Ogryns can take him down', only to the mangled Death Guard use pieces of his arm bones to kill each ogryn with one hit. TLDR : I Advocate by the idea of a boss Chaos Space marine, but very weakned and that you cannot kill it, no matter how hard you try, your objective is to Survive.
While marines are strong i doubt one could kill the entire mourningstar by itself, plasma guns are the go to weapon against power armor and the Inquisitor's warband don't lack those
@@chrip8614 I agree, I think a single traitor marine would probably be a VERY hard fight, but for the powerscale we see with the rejects, I don't think it would be unreasonable to kill an unnamed one. I think if we went up against someone like Vorx from the Lords of Silence on the other hand, we'd probably get stomped seeing as how he was basically ancient and his logic and strength were, in my opinion, a little more menacing than the typical nurgle units.
I can agree with that. Although, the Karnak story mixed with the slow uprising of a possible mutinity on the mourning star could set up the story for something big
While I get what you’re putting down, a lot of these arguments could be made for the Rejects. There is no reason where being put into a Beast of Nurgles stomach shouldn’t completely corrupt you other than plot armor, let alone any of the thousands of diseases that corrupted the underhive as the launch trailer showed.
A Tyranid Warrior is probably roughly the same power level as a Beast of Nurgle or a Chaos Spawn. In Darktide they're a full on boss battle that you need four people wailing on with all your strength to survive. In Space Marine 2 you can kill one in like ten seconds with some sick combo moves and a finisher.
Exactly, it’s absolutely insane that some are arguing with me. A single beast of nurgle would pop like a zit from a few good power gauntlet hits, however 5 beasts of nurgle would really test the mettle of a single space marine which was my “realization” of darktide.
A tryanid warrior can also 1v1 a space marine in lore. Titus and gang are way outside the the norm for an average primaris marine, or even most named characters. It was actually kind of jarring how many feats they accomplish over the course of the campaign and side missions. Most primaris marines would have been absolutely slaughtered in a 3 man team, trying to do what they did.
The joke my friends and I say is that if the rejects played the PvE missions they'd probably all die to the first Warrior they found, and if they survived the next warrior would probably finish them off
Counterpoint would be that we have plasma guns and a funny magic man with a very lovely beloved om are side. 😊 Not to mention the big boy, if he has either the club and shield to tank or the large autogun, we could definitely kill a warrior or two.
Are you guys playing the same game as me? I just played a mission where we killed 2 daemonhosts, 2 beasts of nurgle, a plague ogryn, and 2 chaos spawns that spawned at the same time, not to mention a total of something like 3,400 lesser enemies and elites and specials. And that was just in 35 minutes! There's no way we'd die at the first 'nid warrior! Maybe the 4th or 5th lol.
@@vahnn0yea but realistically you’d die to the first cultist lasgun bolt that hits you, darktide gives you waaaay more survivability for the games sake
Both Darktide and Spacemarine 2 each have their own plot devices and plot holes and even some unexplained plothole devices from Titus to literally being able to resist chaos corruption from touching the power stone from the first game and the rejects from being able to fight and win against hordes of nurgle enemies and even daemonhosts and soon genestealers if they ever add it.
I want to believe Titus has a Blank mutation :< I want to believe the rejects are routinely scrubbed and put through a washing machine everytime they get off that transporter. The kind that would be considered a heavy surgery in today's modern society with flushed liquids into your brain, digestive tract, getting your blood and lymphatic liquids replaced and treated for EVERYTHING.
Titus isn't resistant to chaos corruption from touching the power stone, how he is resistant is unknown. He only became aware of the resistance because of the power stone and the chaos marine commander(the final boss) told him he was resistant and had a connection to the warp. Simply put, the stone didn't give him the ability, it just made it apparent.
@@Shanex250 I think they meant that titus was able to resist corruption that came from the stone, not that the resistance came from the stone. The grammar is a bit ambiguous though so I have to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Just look at how the chaos cultists die in chaos missions and operations, as a Space Marine you give them a bit of a stern look and they explode, and in Darktide you are fighting them as legit enemies.
Darktide rejects are not some lowlife nobodies. They are people with experience and training. Also there are cases of regular people performing outstanding skills. Sometimes you see inquisitor going toe-to-toe with chaos dreadnaught. Or commisar, gaining respect of the strongest ork. Plus we not fighting all 1-2k enemies at once. We meet them in small groups of 20-50. Some enemies do raise the question. Like chaos spawn and beast of nurgle. Such foes should not be possible to overcome even by 4 skilled fighters. I'm not mentioning daemonhost, since we dont actually kill him. And rather forcing him to move. Future enemies? Well dorment tyranids on some planet, previously invaded by some fleet splinter. With geneseed cult. Hormagaunts are perfect replacements for dogs. Swap corruption with poison and you good to go. I do think we will be able to fight even orcs. Some small outpost on the skirts, where dumb orcs occupied something important to Inquisitor. Mostly gretchins, snotlings and squigs as enemies. Instead of ogryns - orcs. 4 rejects should be able to handle several orcs
I'd say the average ork slugga should be roughly comparable to a rager in DT, tankier than average and dangerous in melee, but otherwise easy to deal with. A nob is a perfect replacement for the enemy ogryns, as they are about the same sizes and in the same "stronger than but dumber and slower than an astartes" tier we can deal with. For monstrosities, maybe something like a big mek or squig rider would work, not quite terminator level but still really tough and able to dish out a beating.
Yarrick didn't go toe to toe with one of the greatest ork warlords just because he was strong... he made himself a legend among the orks so they believed he was strong which made him stronger. Yarrick had an army of psychic fungus powering him up to basically be goku. So technically that is how you could make a greentide work, make the protags a legend among the orks to get a buff from them... But under normal circumstances no human could ever stand up to an orkboy and win by anything other than a fluke.
@@tau-5794 this is incredibly off... the rager is more like a grot. I wish i was joking but in the books where guard are fighting orks often the grots take out multiple men. A standard slugger would be closer to a bulwark but speed them up by 100 times and make them better at fightin.
@wingnutmcmoomoo494 No, lmao, ogryns are far, far stronger and tougher than a standard ork boy, and orks aren't really that fast, since despite being close in strength, they routinely get massacred by space marines. Also no grot is going to take out multiple trained guardsmen, unless he's exceedingly lucky, they're about as physically capable as a human child. And regular guardsmen still routinely fight against and kill greater numbers of orks, which are many times stronger and harder to kill than a grot.
Whilst I don't agree with everything said about power weapons here, the power supply is an interesting point. The ones used by people not carrying an external power supply ought to have a little internal one, which obviously would provide less activated duration. That being said, on the models there isn't a tendency to have externally supplied ones on space Marines and the others on regular humans. I'd just write it of as a gameplay mechanic.
It would be pointless, but i cant help to imagine what a sm from Sm2 would do in a darktide mission. Even in the highest difficulty it would like a free win for the 4 rejects. I guess only the deamonhost or the beast of nurgle would be a real challenge to a space marine. Especially the deamonhost for the psychic powers.
I think about it all the time. There’s even dialogue where they ask why a space marine isn’t being employed, where the reply is alone the lines of “why do you think you’re running the mission?” There’s a lot that could be done in darktide, and only time will tell if we get to see some type of collaboration
@@Sgumby1 I imagine the Morningstar becoming infested by Genestealers and the Captain calls in a favor and Deathwing Terminators show up to fix the problem. And you get to help out because there's just 6 of them going from deck to deck.
I've always really liked the Darktide experience. I think it gives a very lore accurate idea of what the inquisition's rejects would experience. Constant missions, good work is rewarded with more work. You are fodder who barely missed the black ships or penal colony duty or servitor transformation. It's brutal and gritty and shows you how shit life in the Imperium of Man is
Counterpoint: Rogue Trader. In that game the non-enhanced humans aren't too far behind the Space Wolf. I'd argue the rejects in Darktide are on the level of those humans in Rogue trader.
@@tonyASi eh, if human inquisitors can be more dangerous than astartes, then so can other humans. its a combination of op gear beyond even space marines like archaeotech rings and shit, and skill on par with someone like ciaphas cain, who's able to keep up with space marines in melee without being instantly gibbed.
Eh, yes and no. The rogue trader's background specifically puts them above the rank-and-file. They were either a Comissar, Militarum Commander, Crime Lord, Noble, or Sanctioned Psyker (My headcannon being that they were a Primaris Psyker seeing as they can unlock similar powers to the primaris psykers of the tabletop) so they would have access to the best augmentations and have already lived a heavily trained or privileged life. Abelard is a former Naval Officer, years of real experience. Idiria is an unsanctioned psyker who somehow still *alive* which speaks to her ability, Cassia is a navigator, Argenta is trained by the Adeptus Sororitas, Heinrix is an Inquisitor, Jae is a Baron of the Cold Trade, Pasqal is a Magos of the Ad Mech, Yrilet is a trained Eldar Sharpshooter, and Marazhai is the Archon of a Kabal in Comorroagh. All of these people are WAY stronger than Darktide's playable characters. The veteran is just a guardsman, the orgryn is just that, the psyker is maybe 1/10th the power level of a primaris, and the zealot is really loves golden daddy.
It's so stupid when people say "well in Darktide you just play as a reject so Orks and even Hormagaunts would just tear you apart". No, no they wouldn't, and you aren't JUST rejects, each of you are basically an elite of you're respective origin, the hint is in things like the title "Veteran". People don't seem to get that through the levels we routinely kill armed and armoured Ogryns, which have strength and durability comparable to an Astartes just without the intelligence and toys like power armour. Hormagaunts and Ork boys are entirely possible as grunt level enemies (With Gretchins and rippers being the swarm level enemies like pox walkers).
Exactly and during the horus heresy there was even a fight where the guy in charge outfitted his regiment of ogryn withe power armor and astartes weapons and combat drugs it took horus himself showing up to finally get his legion through the hallway of the station
It's not like they use shitty equipment either. The veteran can handle the equivalent of a bolt and Plasma pistol and the Zealot runs around with Astartes sized Chainswords .
You forget the part where Hormagaunts swarm areas in the thousands, are always led by multiple warriors, and the Termagaunts fire fleshborers. Getting hit by lasfire is one thing. Getting hit by a fleshborer is a one way ticket to agony. And lets not even get started on the Nids bringing in stuff like Carnifexes, Gargoyles and Zoanthropes (nevermind a Neurothrope), or hell. a group of Biovores. As for the Orkz.. May I redirect you to Helsreach and see how well that turned out for the average Guardsman? Flashlights do barely anything unless in great numbers, and the Orkz, unfortunately, come in even greater numbers.
Ok… I didn’t really say that though did I? I was staying that if tertium was invaded by tyranids at the scale se faced in sm2, we as 4 rejects would rona my not stand a chance. A single hormaguant is the size of a human… as the rejects we could probably take a few on I guess. A reject against a horde of tyranid with melee and ranged infantry plus a couple of warriors and a zoanthrope would probably end like most of your maelstrom matches when you go ahead of everyone, die to 3 crushers, and leave the game. I’d love to see these factions in darktide, it was a staement on the reality of the situation
Inquisitor: "Look, I don't know if you were actually innocent and I really don't care. What I do know is that there is a pretty big cult of Nergal growing in the lower levels of one of the hives down there. So in exchange for not having you executed, I'm sending you down there to clean it up." Reject: "Wha- Why?! Your an inquisitor! Why can't you just have the guard or the governor's troops do it?" Inquisitor: "Simple. The food chain. You see, on top there's the Emperor, then there's me, then there's the space marines." Reject: "Oh so your going to call them?" Inquisitor: "No, are you stupid?" *slaps Reject across the face* "Then there's the Imperial Guard and the Navy, then there's the planetary governor, and then there's the ordinary citizens of the empire." Reject: "Oh, that's me!" Inquisitor: "Still no! Then there's The penal legions." Reject: "Now that ones got to be me." Inquisitor: "I'm getting there - I'm getting there. Then there's the hive gangers, there's abhumans, there's mutants, there's grox shit, and then there's you!" Reject: "... That's messed up..." Inquisitor: "The point is that this problem isn't worth my time, resources, or attention to deal with. That's why you and the rest of your Reject pals who I just picked up off the prison ship are going down there. Now get down there before I have you shot!"
You underestimate the role of the dejects a bit. Sure, they're not a whole space marine company, but still they end up fighiting daemonhosts and beast of nurgle which are in term of strength above the average demon by a good margin. Power weapons aren't used exclusively with power armor. Most of the models in the guard that have them don't have power armor. The Astartes models are heavier, of course, but the normal ones are perfect for normal people.
I think a lot of people thought I was calling the Rejects flat out weak. I didn't mean that, I should've been more clear on my perspective. I think a plantery invasion of tyranids or orks would be overwhelming. There were past discussions on other videos about what I'd like to see added to Darktide, where people were actually arguing with me saying "greenskins would clap us." I think a full blown wah would be impossible for the whole mourningstar to defend against, but a band of pirate orks like the Freebooters raiding us would be a fantastic mission
Reminder that the astropath we see getting possed in SM2 would floor 4 psykers from darktide And on the psyker foodchain, she barely can be considered above average
That's not true at all. Astropaths aren't battle psykers and are really only good at long range telepathy with few exceptions. She would have absolutely no chance against 4 psykers that are able to fight against daemon hosts and chaos cultists regularly without being possessed. The reject psyker can stay at high peril (resisting a daemon possession) for an entire mission and be fine. They are able to stun lock hordes of enemies and use a wide array of psychic abilities. They can instakill almost any human sized enemy and can 2 shot enemies that have the same physical durability as an average space marine. The astropath would get mollywhopped by one reject psyker, let alone four.
it also does put into perspective that while the rejects ARE weaker than space marines obviously, they fight things still way above that of normal guardsmen as just a group of 4, daenon hosts, chaos spawn, beasts of nurgle, etc. It's kinduv insane how strong the rejects are.
The horrific difference is a spacemarine simply RUNS through a human like it's paper-mache. As seen in the game. That's sets the level in which the spacemarines are in compared to an "elite" reject . Both games are so cool.
Another compassion to make. The bolter you use in Darktide, which takes a century to reload and suffers kickback like a monster, is of a smaller scale and caliber primarily utilized by members of the Sisters of Battle. The rejects arent even capable of using proper Astartes weapons
One glaring issue with SM2 - the power armour seems to not be powered. Which is to say, the marines move like they pooped themselves; there's no indication of the suit enhancing their strength and agility... on the contrary, it's as if the people animating the power armour were unaware that it's more than just bits of armour strapped to a muscular dude.
Yeah... You move *kinda* like how you move when wearing power armour in Fallout 4, which is to say it's all big and clunky but powerful... But I guess I'd been conditioned by Astartes to view the Marine's Power Armour as more of a second skin that they were able to move gracefully and at speed in.
I got into an argument on the Darktide Subreddit because some dudes were thinking we Rejects could handle a Plague Marine as a boss. Dude. We can barely handle newborn Daemonhosts and Plague Ogryns. The fact any of the Rejects can even survive exposure to a Daemonhost and don't melt into rotten flesh puddles at the mere smell of a Plague Ogryn is already an Emperor-blessed miracle. The only reason we are still alive is that Nurgle himself hasn't even taken notice of Atoma. One of his greater demons may have, but its most likely just Admonition summoning daemons and eventually Nurgle may take notice. There is no way we could take on a Plague Marine. He could destroy us, literally, by breathing on us. The only way I could see a Plague Marine working is if an Astartes wounded it and died doing so, and we spent the entire 30 minute mission running from the Plague Marine and luring him into a trap and finishing it with overwhelming DAKKA. Probably crashing a train filled with explosives into it. It really blows my mind how the power scaling is lost on people who engage with 40K. We are like, the rats feeding on the roaches. We work together enough we might be able to beat the cat, the Daemonhosts and Plague beasts, but eventually, the Exterminator is going to come and wipe us out without a second thought.
Orrr. you could just give a Ratling a sniper rifle with some esoteric DaoT rounds and tell him 'Head shots only.' Even a space marine needs his head/brain to still fight and function. Yes, we all know that the Spez muhreens are meant to be the untouchable gods of the setting, but a well positioned sniper, with the right rounds that could penetrate the helmet and explode their targets head is still going to kill that space marine, loyalist OR chaos. I could deffo see a wounded Chaos marine as a viable boss fight in darktide, perhaps making it even more lore viable by having an npc character involved in the fight 'weakening' it further, but still having the battle be extremely tough with the highest difficulty level.
@@alias234 Plague marines specifically are exeption of the general rule you described since they are mega-durable even by spacemarine standarts and probably can shrug off even a bullet to the cranium.
@@Steir12 But wouldt the presence of such a rotting body with who knows what cancer just infect and kill us? So even being nearby would be fatal. And nearby might aswel be a huge radius i believe
@@tuellecke1339 Yeah, it totally would. Frankly being within like the same time zone with beast of nurgle would likely be death sentence but our brave 4 seems to be unbothered.
About orcs and tyranids are too much for Darktide, I'd disagree. There is Nacromunda setting in WH40k universe, where battles are running on low level of hive city. Without any space marines, mostly by wargangs with human limitations. And GW set there small orc band, tyranid geenestealer cult, a few chaos cults. And they are on equals. Not all orc gang is planetary level threat. Not every tyranid is the horde. They have their low scale detachements too. Yes, usual orc would probably be as thick as mutie from Darktide. For horde, squigs and gretchins could be used. Many wierdboyz, painboyz and mechboyz would be perfect as specialists. Maybe just more tanky. And minor warboss as monstrosity. It can work. Anyway, our playable characters are already overpowered. Veteran should be on same level as elite gunner. Ogin is just ogrin. In game reality he can take 3-5 ogrins by himself. Bolter weapons are usually locked for Spacemarines or at least powerarmor users, shouldn't be working for Darktide characters, maybe only ogrin. So we are already overpowered in comparison with necromunda . Beating some minor orcs systematically should not be a problem. Other problem, orcs, tyranids and chaos cultists are totally not friends. They would not fight together. In vermentid at least all 3 factions are branches of chaos and alliance between them is possible. So Fatsharks would be needing to make second game in this one. While they still didn't even finished weapon leveling system.
Personally, I think even though Darktide Humans would be able to largely handle Orks, I do think they would get ran straight over by a horde of Orks the size of the waves seen in Darktide, at least assuming that the majority of the force are Ork Boyz. If they were grots, then fair enough but Grots are rarely the main force. I think also it would be harder to justify the melee pillar of the game when an Ork Boy is just way more optimized for Melee than most Humans will be. Tyranids also have their own unique strengths and some units that just would rip a space marine let alone a human in two. I think personally, Genestealer cult or other chaos cult Humans/Ogryns are a perfect lore justification for seeing the absolute chaos we see in Darktide. Though there are some things likewise that no Human could beat alone present in Darktide, the same could be said for a game like space marine. Save some absolutely plot armored marines, no 3 Marines will be able to take a Carnifex with Hormagaunts supporting it.
Bolters in Darktide aren't Space Marine bolters, bolters in general aren't limited to Marines. Smaller patterns of bolters are produced all over the Imperium. They are just less practical logistically speaking than lasguns and autoguns because bolts are large, bulky, heavy and not really efficient in sustained warfare. On Necromunda, local beat cops (NOT ARBITES! Local planetary cops, altho they are pretty hardcore tbf) uses human pattern bolters routinely.
@@spanishinquisition7623 I think most weaponry deployed by the rejects (and even by regular guardsmen) would be able to handle the horde units of all major factions in 40k. Ork Boys (not Nobz, who can tank perhaps a mag) are tough but not immune to getting shot and dying to a couple "mere" lasgun shots to the torso or to the head, and gaunts are much the same except they are not even as tough as Ork Boys (altho likely faster) So there you got it : the two most common enemy of the guard (apart from other humans themselves) can be killed somewhat reliably with weapons that are available to the rejects. Anything bigger of course would be harder to justify. I think the rejects can handle nobz, they are tough but not invincible. A warboss would definitely be a god tier boss fight tho.
we have a bolter pattern thats designed for humans, in tabletop, guardsmen can equip a single man in a unit with a bolter as an upgrade to a lasgun--so that's very much lore accurate.
I agree. This video was speaking more from a perspective of a mass invasion being hard for the rejects to handle. I think a mission where an exploration of an abandoned battle barge outside of tertium being botched due to an ork party attacking would be very fun and realistic, where we might have to fight our way out to get off the barge in time. This is compared to what I was speaking of in relation to sm2’s invasion scale, the rejects holding off an entire greenskin wah or a tyranid invasion would be pretty tough on even the entire mourningstar’s population of rejects
this video made me realize that a game like Darktide/Vermintide were we play as Orks would have endless possibilities regarding enemy, weapons and missions
As a guy who got into warhammer through darktide, i did wish we had different type of enemies to fight but after beating Space Marines 2, these brothers are on a whole different caliber of threat than some nurgle bois or mobian 6. Maybe the rejects are better off this way lol
Lol thank you someone who isn’t telling me I’m a douche and wrong. I was simply stating that a gaggle of warriors, hormagaunts, zoanthropes, etc would REALLY throw a wrench in the reject’s days
In reference to the the Cadians in space marine 2 there’s actually an interesting fact with them If you look really closely, all of the cadian guardsmen who got driven mad in the game had normal eyes colors, meanwhile all of the ones who remained of sound mind and continued to fight had the purple eyes, that is they were the True born cadians and thus they were resistant to the warp (Due note I’m reciting these things from what I’ve heard from my more knowledge 40K friends, do not crucify me for me getting facts wrong)
In the eternal twilight of a celestial battlefield, where stars weep and cosmic winds howl, shines the edict: "It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself."
One of the main things SM2 put in perspective for me, was just how good the combat loop in Darktide actually is. The combat feels amazing compared to space marine. Couldnt care less about the power fantasy... Darktide is fun, feels good, and you have total control over the combat... the other is all over the place, its more reactive than anything, and janky
What's funny is that there are some cadian's in the final level of SM2 were indeed still sound of mind, even ones within the warp that still put up a fight, though they die just before you reach them.
You can feel the power fantasy in darktide even on the hardest difficulties, sm2 on the other hand turns into elden ring with endless roll spamming like youre a little fruitcake
@@TheBionil chaos ruthless is not hard above level 20 with heavy/vanguard/sniper, with other classes you need a good team but I've beaten operations 3-5 with bots using those three classes. I agree the bullet sponge approach isn't ideal but it seems like nothing more than a way to ensure that you can't breeze through ruthless without artificer or relic weapons. Basically all you need is a weapon that can kill a majoris faster than you can be killed in the middle of a swarm, then you just chain endlessly, I usually only die if I run out of ammo
@@Blueybeak it’s beatable, but it’s not fun, you there’s no feeling of being a space marine. Difficulty that is poorly and lazily done to make the game a slog to play
I always thought that if Darktide ever had a final boss it would be a single Plague Marine. It doesn't have to be an established character just some random Marine sent by Typhus to investigate the Tertium Cult.
Great video! Guardsmen are regularly deployed to fight against Orks, Gene Stealers, and Tyranids provided that the invading force isn't too large for them to handle. A good example can be basically almost all of the Ciaphas Cain books where space marines are very rare, yet he and the regiment he is attached to regularly fight off Ork and Gene Stealer invasions. I think that for Darktide, Gene Stealers would be more likely to be put in the game, and I really think they should. Orks might be a little hard to fit into the overall narrative of the game, but I'm sure that we would be able to handle them without special support from space marines as they are only sent to places where the conflict has escalated beyond guard control or there is something of absolute strategic value such as the titans in the first game or Aurora in the second.
yeh the mostly truly nightmarish creatures in Darktide are the actual daemons like the beast of nurgle and the possessed i remember every time someone first ran into either and they would just be screaming
Would it be fair to say that the bolter in Darktide is equal to the Bolt carbine or bolt pistol in Space Marine 2? Not going off of caliber size, going off of raw damage output on a per-shot basis.
The bolter in Darktide is pretty much what the space marines use. The whole "bolt carbine" thing only came into being with the primaris marine nonsense being introduced to the setting. So yeah, bolt carbines are just normal bolters. Bolt shells are standardized across the imperium, with only two calibers being the standard bolt being .75cal and the heavy bolter shell being 1.0cal. The only difference between the bolters normal humans use and the ones that space marines use is the furniture and the grip of the weapon are scaled to the user. Otherwise they use the same ammo. There was a smaller caliber bolt round during the great crusade used by Tigrus pattern boltguns that was used by space marines, but they were phased out for the larger caliber.
@@windrider970 Are we seeing that being reflected in either gameplay in terms of one-shot killing human-sized targets, with a mag or two needed to destroy a minor target? Legacy Astartes bolter vs Darktide's Arbitite pattern bolter (which has less features and lower capacity to be welded without power armor).
Just seeing a space marine would cause some people to have an anxiety attack. Your point about the weapons is spot on. If there was to be a Space Marine encounter I’d really hope it was just a single marine from the Alpha Legion and that it would be something the players would have to puzzle out in Darktide.
Plasma gun. The great equalizer. Its never brought up when people talk about how destructive space marines are, and i can only assume its because it blows up the argument. Besides, ogryns are just built different. I want to see my Ogryn rip some Tyranids in half. Rejects could handle this shit just fine, at least if you believe they could survive an auric mission as is now.
Plasma guns are temperamental, take time to charge, glow, and fire slow projectiles. A space marine is not just armored, they are hyper intelligent super-soldiers loaded with the absolute best sensors available.
@@sheeplord4976 Which is why they love to bolt them vehicles? Why they have knockoff aspect warrior teams dedicated to studying the plasma? Well if the plasma is too temperamental for you then why not the ubiquitous melta? Honestly it makes less sense for the plasma to exist in darktide than the melta, but that's an argument for another time. The imperium has the technology to let a guardsmen kill large enemies. They just gotta hit that 4+
@@sheeplord4976 we also have bolt guns that are relatively effective against marines, we'll undoubtedly get melta guns, long-las can take out marines...etc
Ik what you’re saying but idk if we could handle a full blown invasion of tyranids on tertium. Scrawny little cultists and poxwalkers, a couple of beasts of nurgle/chaos spawns/plague ogryns mixed with specialists and elites are a little exaggeration of the potential of our rejects but obviously doable even on auric maelstrom. But a global invasion that requires space marines to intervene would push it imo
ok so i havent watched it yet, but i wanna make a guess... is it about how absolutely empty the entire city seems? like in darktide is supposed to be a massive hivecity under attack, and yet you hear no gunfire, no screams or explosions in the distance, see no fights on distant bridges, no valkyries flying past to do attack runs? even in the starts where you spawn in friendly territory and have allied npc's and tanks there, they just.. sit there, not even firing a shot, same with the enemies.
alright, just got to the end, and i agree with most points. though it has to be said its a nurgle outbreak in darktide, we would be dead as soon as we set foot on the planet :')
The hab blocks you are sent to in Darktide are under quarantine. You are located FAR from the frontlines. The missions you are being sent on are essentially just sidequests in the greater campaign for Tertium. If you succeed in the mission, that'll help the frontlines a little bit. But if you get wiped and fail the mission, nobody will even notice. That's how insignificant you really are in Darktide.
@@aRandomFox00 in a few of the missions you spawn right next to a line of tanks and soldiers, all just looking to the other side of the bridge. none of them do anything. i really love darktide, but just.. having a bit more chaos could go a long way in setting the atmosphere a bit better
@@jpmrwiggles121 that i either dont remember or never noticed, havent played in a while. i just remember looking around in a lot of the parts before you enter an airlock, and there just.. isnt anything
Even a space marine neophyte without all his power armour and unfinished implants would kill them all. They literally train those mini space marines by letting them fight fully grown orks with nothing but a chainsword and bolt pistol.
I feel like darktide would have made more sense being played by astartes, or some other more superpowered characters from 40k like assassins or something. Darktide is honestly kinda silly where you are just playing as 4 normal human soldiers fighting off endless hordes of enemies and just shaking off hits like it barely even phases you while being able to cut through multiple enemies with a single swing of a melee weapon. 40k already has a clearly defined scale of power with all of the different units and characters and the feats you are capable of in darktide simply don't match that of a regular or elite guardsmen.
In lore the size of the uprising they are dealing with isn't bad enough to call in the Astartes, once it becomes a world ending sort of threat THEN the Astartes are called in at which point it's a planetary scale chaos invasion not just a few hab blocks in a Hive city. Remember the shear scale of a Hive City in 40k having a few billion in a really big one and a few hundred million in the average so the numbers of cultists you mow down are not even a dent in the local population. Although it is VERY concerning there are deamons about and deamon hosts in those areas which does not bode well for the City or the planet frankly.
@@taliawtf6944its worth mentioning that despite powerscales being set in 40k, these are constantly being pushed aside for the sake of plot Even in Space Marine 1 and 2 Titus achieves feats that should be impossible for a lone Space Marine Stuff like 1vs1 a Demon Prince or whole packs of Bloodletters And then theres stuff like Fire Warrior where a lone Tau was able to cut through hundreds of Guardsmen, a Valkyrie, dozens of Space Marines, Stormtroopers, Admech, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Dreadnaught, SEVERAL DEMON PRINCES, a pretty big Chaos Spawn and then a Lord of Change Over the course of 24 hours
I think darktide stretches the limit, but I wouldn't discount the "lowly" veteran guardsman. In Dark Heresy, a true veteran guardsman is an absolute killing machine for instance, even against mid tier threats like Orks. To me, veteran guardsmen should have no problem mowing down hordes of poxwalkers and lowly cultists. Literally none. It becomes a bit trickier when they are depicted as mowing down Moebian 8th guardsmens as if they were nothing : sure, the rejects are elites and will likely fuck up the average Moebian, but not when outnumbered so vastly. So I guess its hit and miss
Lmao dont excuses fatsharks piss poor planning. They can put in whatever they want. The real reason is cause fatshark bunggled a game a shouldve Had in the bag. Had they took over the UI, leveling and equipment systems from vermintide 2. It wouldve been waay better received.
I hadn’t excused them, if anything I’ve roasted the shit out of them in past videos and said the same thing. They dropped the ball hard, they had a fullly fleshed out system they could’ve copy and pasted from vt2 that they could have EASILY expanded on. I still enjoy darktide either way
Seeing the difference between the threats in both games, I can't imagine how difficult a single Thousand Sons chaos marine would destroy you so quickly, including most of Tertium's lower levels
To put it into scale, any majoris enemies would basically be considered a boss like the monstrosities. Terminus enemies like the Helbrute might as well be considered raid bosses especially.
Greenskins can work in Darktide so long as all the horde enemies are Snotlings, Gretchin and smaller-sized squigs (of which there are many species to choose from). Then the first Orks you fight are Runtherdz and Trappas Specialists. Then the squads of Elites can just be regular Ork Boy "newborns." They don't even need to have any good armor, outside of just being bigger than you. The Bosses/Captains can be Nobs, or other special orks like a Mekboy or Flashgit.
Honestly if it’s a more simple marine type like ultramarines ( if we’re ignoring faction allegiances) or more believably the black legion I think a reject kill team could hypothetically take a 3 man squad of them. If we’re talking by game logic the rejects could take much worse than a bolter round judging by the fact that they can take plasma bolts to the chest and the psykana shield on the psyker would also prove very useful. Or if we’re going for a more realistic approach just about everyone other than the zealot becomes about 2 to 3 times stronger with the vet getting access to plasma guns, krak grenades and power swords, the psyker would just start bending reality (as unsanctioned psykers tend to do) and the ogryn could suddenly go toe to toe with the marines in terms of physical strength, even the zealot has access to a thunder hammer which would cave in their ceremite armor rather well. As for battle planning the whole gyst would be that the rejects sit behind a psykers psykana shield and have the vet and psyker hit them at range. Then if they close for melee they have an ogryn and a thunder hammer to deal with.
The recoil of most actual space marine bolters would kill you outright as a normal human, there is a bit in one of the books where a guardman wants to make a marine notice him so he takes a bolter of a fallen marine and goes to fire it the marine shouts at him not to but is to late as the gun rips his arms of smashes him in the face and pulverises his skull, so service to say yeah, like even amounts human ranks the psykers in the rejects squads are so low on the rating they were not picked up by the fleets looking for souls for big E's lunch.
Reminds me of the chats i had with fellow rejects a few times now, where those that have maybe seen some majorkill(love his stuff dont get me wrong) stuff beyond the game itself, going "Cant wait for the next update where they gotta add a chaos space marine as an enemy, thatd be so cool" and everyone that knows lore at least enough to go "lmao no" makes me think of a interaction between a reject team where they come up to a csm going "were gonna kill u!!!" and the csm goes "lol", atomizes the skull or bisects the body of anyone caught out in the open with a single bolter round, "lmao" repeals any magic by the psyker before putting a bolt into their skull too, maybe needing a few more before scoring a hit from the migraine they might cause. Sure the ogryn might get a lucky swing on one of em but unless the big boys luck is blessed by the big e himself the csm slices off the ogryns arm before tearing off his head too then
I could see something like Orcs, Tyranids or any other sort of Warp-anomaly being a possible enemy in Darktide, but that would require a bit of a change in the levels narrative, for example, assuming that at some point, the Morning Tide ship had to make a relocation outside of the planet to pick up new soldiers for the inquisitor, more chaff for the training so to speak, and during one of those warp-travels, a Ork Weird-boy and a few of his minions teleport on, most of the enemies would be Gretchin, Squiggs and the occasional minor warp-entity, like a few possessed servitors or similar, and the ORKS themselves could be similar to the Plague Ogryns, Beasts or Nurgle or such, because they are almost if not as durable as such beings, being Orks, and then the Weird-boy himself could be a boss-fight similar to the assassin target, which he would have a personal shield come up every now and then followed by more waves of Squiggs and or Gretchin. As for Tyranids, well, maybe one of the Inquisitors personal experimental Hormagaunt escaped, and its now as big as a normal Warrior, that could be a interesting hunt.
I actuall just made a new video talking about this stuff. I think the most lore-sensical and power-friendly way to go about introducing Orks to the game would be to have a Freebooterz raiding party attack Tertium.
one note abouit power weapons they do not require strength to use, the field over the blade disrupts matter, so technically and this is even shown in books a human sized 1h power sword can even pierce terminator armour
I should've clarified more because this keeps coming up. I know normal humans can use power weapons, but I was speaking more about Astartes' power weapons. From my understanding, I thought there was an Astartes specific design that was meant only for elite soldiers, but correct me if I am wrong.
@@Sgumby1
Maybe not for "Elite Soldiers", but for Astartes, yes. There would be a design specifically for them.
... but that's all about size ^^'
A space Marine is about 50% larger than a human. And then they have Power Armour on top of that.
No weapon designed for them can be reasonably wielded by a regular-sized human.
Depending on the strength of the disruptor field they do require the handler to be a certain level of durable to use. Luce Spinoza in Argent picks up a chaplain's crozius and uses it in an emergency situation. Despite her power armor she shatters the bones in her arms when swinging it. The chaplain later gets the crozius reworked so that a regular human can use it and gifts it to her.
@@Sgumby1 Nah, commissars have power weapons on the regular. So they're around, but newly minted regiments, planetary militia and the like would have basically none most of the time.
Darktide is the inquisition. So, while the tactic of giving power weapons to convicts is questionable, the inquisition has the supplies for it for sure. But since that and bolt/plasma weapons are locked behind respect level or whatever, you do have to earn it.
Astartes pattern stuff is just bigger and better most of the time.
@@DaniDeFig the plasma pistol would be a heavy plasma rifle for humans.
The power level between the two can be summed up in saying: the main foes that you fight for your life against in Darktide, literally die when you walk through them in SM2
Loved that the devs included that. Cannot imagine how terrifying it would be seeing 1000+lbs of ceramite barreling towards you at 70kph
@@oroboros88In game they run at 30-40ish kph. About the same as how fast a 100m dasher would run.
@@GewalfofWivia I went off googles result, really just depends I guess
@@GewalfofWivia That's a combat jog, can't always go all out.
For real its so trivial for a space marine
In the old Eye of Terror novel, a single daemonette was able to affect the minds of regular people seeing one for the first time while marines were unfazed. In the same novel two greater daemons basically use a pair of planets to play a game of interplanetary chess, then leave once they get bored, leaving the two planets fighting a perpetual war for the favour of deities that have abandoned them.
One of Slannesh’s Daemonette’s?
@@nathancohen5748 All daemonetes are slaneeshi.
Eye of Terror got me into 40k. Insanely underrated
@@conormcgregorwasnevermyfri1984yeah, super cool book
That’s what I thought but then my dad left me on my 5th birthday
Rejects: Fighting an astray regiment that has BARELY gained Nurgle’s notice let alone his favor.
Space Marines: Fighting not only Thousand Sons but a Lord of Change that melts people’s psyche by them LOOKING AT IT.
space marines "we are not the same"
a darktide player character would be one shot if a space marine dodged through them like the trashmob chaos snipers
I think the powerlevel in both universes are quite well done. Both obviously want to give people more then the character they play could logiclly defeat (Beast of Nurgle / Lord of Change) but otherwise it doesn't exceed the powerlevels that much.
@@lordhandsomeswag1854 eh, the darktide characters are very much anomalies--if ciaphas cain can keep up with a marine in melee, the rejects in darktide could pull off a similar feat.
If we were going by canon feats, the Darktide rejects seem almost main character-level in the setting with what you can pull off in game
You know what it makes me realize? In Warhammer Boltgun, Malum Caedo killed 3 Lords of Change. By himself. Back-back with no breaks.
Sounds like Doom Guy decided to take a little vacation and partake in some cosplay.
It's an old-school FPS, these things are bound to happen.
its wierd seeing someone with named character power but still wearing a helmet.
@@oscarlove4394 Beakie helmet tho.
He sacrificed his entire squad at the beginning to gain that power😆
Crackhead with a shovel: Nah, I'd win.
I’ve been out in San Diego for a week and I’ll be honest… The crackheads here could’ve probably taken down Imurah easily
they already babbling nonsense so much ain't no force of chaos can surpassed their addiction, and randomness.
i mean they deal with daemon host, warp spwan, chaos ogryn and beasts of chaos so the rejects still hit above there weight class
And for me it's kind of a bummer. As indeed it's way up there class. Even the sheer number of enemies you face. We are speaking of 4 guys with minimal equipment and training against military trained and equipped guardsman. For me, Darktide should have been some kind of horror/survival in the hive + inquiry type of game. Still great However.
@@Northilink Mf necromunda is a better guards sim than darktide
@@Northilink "minimal equipment and training"
Ogryn be like :
Veteran be like :
Psyker be like :
Zealot be like :
These guys are not "minimally trained". Nor are they this badly equipped. In the lore, veteran guardsmens for instance are really, REALLY hardcore motherfuckers who routinely went toe to toe with the deadliest xenos the galaxy had to offer and not only survived but largely won. This tells you something, these guys are not your average guardsman, and your average guardsman is not your average conscript.
@@KalashVodka175 Weird when people say stuff like that isnt it. You would think the title of the class being for example "Veteran" would be enough of an indicator that they are not "Minimally trained". So no idea what that fella is talking about.
At the end of the day none of the classes we play are "just" anything.
@@rock2k14
Yeah. Honestly the only one I had my doubt about is the zealot, but then again by definition a zealot is someone so ingrained into a belief, ideology or religion that they would forego their own life without a doubt for the cause, which in and of itself would put them above most others in a life and death scenario
I imagine the zealot likely participated in warfare as a regimental priest which would be more than enough to justify their capacity in darktide
Genestealer cult is the perfect faction for darktide imo.
Agreed, I think they’d fit perfectly. A full blown, planetary tyranid invasion would probably be a little rough to handle
@@Sgumby1I think that’s the point of darktide though. Just as you’re trying to prevent the planet from becoming a Nurgle demon world, your goal in that scenario would be to destroy the cult before their psychic beacon calls in the fleet
Regarding genestealers, Rogue Trader will have DLC featuring them on Sep 24th.
Haha imagine a pvp version where you can wield three guns at once, or just bite people with your freaky Nid teeth
@@Sgumby1 It would end up being similar to what the guard in SM2 deals with. And yea, they're usually 10+ in numbers with 3 Space Marines backing them up and me trying my best to keep them alive. Usually I'm lucky if 1-3 of them are still alive by the end of it, and that's with Titus pulling some Salamander tier self sacrificing and almost dying to keep the guardsmen safe. It would be like fighting a horde of nothing but pox hounds except they're twice the size.
Give the rejects some credit, they are literally fighting Daemon Hosts, Chaos Beasts, Chaos Ogryns, Traitor Guardsmen, Poxwalkers and all the nasty diseases of Nurgle.
ogryn catches brain eating pathogen
pathogen starves
I will have to add, that Talasa also encounters and defeats a Daemonhost.
..and that just proves that the Cult of Admonition is just shite at making Daemonhosts. Because the one the Thousand Sons conjured up as a vox jammer is a WHOLE lot more terrifying than the half-starved pushover ragdolls the Admonition litters about Atoma's streets
Hey hey don’t think this video was made to bash darktide. I love darktide, and I love the rejects as if they were tf2 characters. I was stating that if tertium faced a planetary invasion by tyranids, we would probably have a hard time. I am all for adding tyranids, orks, etc to the game, I just think it’d be rough on the 4 guys to withstand what we saw in sm2
@@Sgumby1 im thinking if we were to have something done with the tyranids, it would be a genestealer cult of some kind, significantly less true tyranids to fight, but plenty of hybrids
@@Sgumby1 but you cant deny, the rejects grew stronger within an extremely short time.
From a lowly criminal, struggling with common soldiers and hordes, growing up to a daemon slaying archheretic killer. And that within only a couple of days or weeks.
From level 1 to level 30 all rejects more then tripled their strenght. So who knows how much stronger they may become if given time, challenge and tools.
Perhaps with the introduction of Tyranid and/or Ork dlc's, we may eventualy reach level 45 or even 60. Then it would be a more then fair fight.
IDK if you played the entire game but there is entire squads of Cadians that withstand the powers of the warp. it depends on the person. I wouldn't put it against those employed by the inquisition to be better conditioned against this kind of power.
Even darktides shows it's hit and miss who can resist chaos in one of the cutscenes on the ship a guardsman sees chaos marks and they go insane but a few others resist it.
I think a huge thing is the fact that the vast majority of Guardsmen don't even know about the warp or chaos. So they aren't going to know how to shield against it's effects. And yh you'd think a soldier for the Inquisition would be much better mentally against such things due to training and knowledge.
Got to remember though… these are cadians whose homeworld was the lynchpin for keeping Chaos contained within the eye of terror… it makes sense they are more likely to be able to resist the powers of chaos due to their homeworlds former proximity to the galaxy’s largest warp rift and the inquisition and commisariat constantly pruning their population of traitors and heretics.
@@TheeChalkEven Inquisitors can be corrupted.
My favourite of the corrupted Cadians is a woman you can hear who is succumbing but fighting the corruption by trying to remind herself that she is a daughter of Cadia.
I mean there's a reason the track "Disposal Unit" is the most iconic one from Darktide. Right down to the name, it encapsulates what the game is about.
I love that description.
"Uh, there's an abominable cult down here."
"Is that so? Well, kill it please. We don't have all day for such trivialities..."
Lol it’s just such a funny concept
I want ot add that Orks could definitely work in Darktide, Gretchin/Grots and Squigs as the Horde enemy, regular Ork Boyz and Lootas as Specialist, 'Ard Boyz and Nobz as Elites, Meganobz and baby Squiggoths as Monstrosities.
The average Ork boy is nearly as strong as a Space Marine and just about as big... The average human can gun them down with a Lasgun but the moment those Orks get within close combat it's not a battlefield anymore it's going to be a slaughter house. So if you want the game to be you can shoot them down with half a mag of ammo but if they so much as sneeze on you your ripped in half by all means ask for them. lol
@@taliawtf6944 An Ogryn is stronger than a Boss Nob, let alone a Boy. Tabletop, 3 wounds vs 2 and 6 toughness vs 5. A Boy is only 1 Wound, Toughness 5, 5+ save not really that impressive.
@@taliawtf6944 good thing we got Ogryns and a dodge mechanic then.
I can definitely see them being sent behind ork lines and fighting the Ork rear guard (which are almost always grots) enable to sabotage supplies, artillery, and vehicles to aid the wider war effort.
@@taliawtf6944No they're really not, that is such a common misconception, Boyz are slightly stronger than humans, Nobs and Astartes and comparable. And then there's the fact that our little group of elites (which is what they are, even the guardsmen is a Veteran, he's not some new recruit) routinely slaughter armed and armoured Ogryns, which in the lore are about as strong and durable as an Astartes, but with the intelligence of a downs syndrome child and without the neat toys like power armour, so yes, Orks absolutely would work.
Makes it even funnier when you say an Ork would rip us in two when we routinely block Ogryns blows, which could tear an Ork boy in half with its bare hands.
Rejects routinely barge into a Nurgle infested underhive AS A TEAM OF FOUR and slay like 3000 enemies in under 1/2 hour with rusty shanks and shovels. AND COME OUT ALIVE. As far as regular 40k humans go, rejects are definitely top tier warriors.
Honestly very fair, a squad of rejects would like be able to *survive* in a SM2 mission, fighting majoris enemies as very tough elites…. Until a lictor or zoanthrope showed up, and the squad would be wiped lmao
To be fair that's because most of those enemies are pox ridden zombies that shuffle towards you with without much thought or strategy
The Moebian 6th, the highly trained elites traitor guardsmen are roughly spread out through the hive city using pox walkers and poorly armed cultists to bolster their ranks
from a narrative perspective we're supposed to be the miracle best of the best of the rejects and conscripts Inquisitor Grendyl is throwing at the problem en mass because his Inquisitorial storm troopers are being picked off and they can't recoup their losses any other way, you compare these poorly supplied Traitor guardsmen with cultists/ mutant support to an other traitor guardsmen forces that actually use guns, tanks, aircraft, and artillery and we're not too impressive anymore when we're just cutting down mostly diseased zombies being used as cannon fodder by the Moebian 6th 😞
A space marines detachment would eat this chaos uprising we're fighting tooth n nail against for breakfast, especially if they were Blood angels or Ravengaurd, the former being champions of melee and the ladder being infiltration and stealth masters, the things 2 things we've got going for us 😓
The voice acting is another example. In Darktide, the rejects often scream and yell due to the adrenaline of fighting. In SM2, all the space marines sound completely calm and composed at all times.
that flag standard bearing scene:
"brother, fall back in line!"
"I can't brother, I have lost my leg!"
"COVER HIM!"
That's honestly just a Space Marine 2 thing. Marines in general are depicted as some loud MFs, barking orders and insults at anything close to them. Remember the wisest.words of the Codex Astartes:
EAT BOLTGUN
yeah I love that the rejects in darktide would be obliterated by the thousands sons or tyranids, they even say in darktide "why are we here when a squad of space marines can blow through these heretics with ease" it shows how spread thin the imperium is and how different threat factors play into the deployment of space marines, they would definitely dispatch them if the rejects had to face off against plague marines.
The fact is in the lore, Space marines are a tiny, tiny part of the imperium military. They cannot be everywhere and most warzones simply don't have present for chaos or Imperium side. Darktide is very true to the lore with that.
Titus and team (or any three of the Operations 6 man squad) would breeze through every mission on Darktide with ease, only threatened maybe by Ogryn or the monstrosities. Meanwhile take a four man team of the 21 personalities in darktide and put them where Titus is and they'd be wiped out. Maybe all 21 together with appropriate gear from their armory would stand some chance.
Which means the two games do their jobs of showing how two different warzones are.
Even proper Imperial Guard forces are a tier above rejects. Armour and artillery support, proper training, and funny enough specialization. Cadians are trained as all purpose shock infantry. The Imperium literally has entire Guard regiments tailored to specific environments and tactics. You're not just send thousands of men to drown the enemy in bodies, you're deploying a proper army with recon scouts, dedicated vehicle support, and thousands of legitimate military trained personal with their kit and said training fully customized to their style of warfare and environment.
Hell, I sadly forget the name, but there's a story where a CHAOS SPACE MARINE WARLORD scolds a subordinate because while a single guardsman dies easily, even said warlord had to think twice before actually taking on the Guard in a fortified position.
Space Marines act at their own will, for the most part, they go where they feel they are needed, usually that's when aid is requested, but even then they might just be like "eh, not our problem" it takes high Imperial authority (like an Inquisitor, hint hint) to compel them anywhere. Conversely, even if aid hasn't been called if they feel a cause is good enough they might just show up on their own even if they're unwanted. They the sledgehammer, and the rejects are working overtime to keep the Chaos infestation from coming under their notice. The Inquisitor knows the strategic importance of Atoma, and the consequences of a Marine Chapter descending upon the hive. The manufacturing capacities could be completely devastated as they rampage through the infested levels cleansing the taint.
At high levels the rejects are welcomed into the Warband, which puts them as top Imperial agents, with authority above Marines, with access to unparalleled equipment that even Marines don't get. We don't get that on Atoma because Grendyl is keeping it all hush-hush, so requisitioning such gear would bring a spotlight, so we get to reclaim and scavenge gear for the moment, but if needs arose, it would be available. But they'd be used as needed to strike at priority targets, ones even Marines couldn't deal with.
@@daefaron Yup, the two games honestly did a great job of the power scaling.
@@imperialofficerremusblackw8452 Funny enough, Darktide has a new loyalist regiment coming in with implication they'll be taking over as a primary offensive unit, with rejects supporting and the 21st continuing to hold the line.
SM game: that guy probably is blessed by the warp.
Dark tide reject: behold i am a sanctioned psyker
If the Cadian 8th comes Atoma, my cadian vet wouldn't be pissed off all the time.
likewise, if the darktide characters were in space marine 2 theyd only be the grunts/minions you one shot without any effort, at most just an elite unit level.
You're absolutely correct. You can kill cultists just by running through them in SM2.
if the darktide characters were in sm2 they would be like those chaos cultists that you can literally run right through
@@frog56414 dont think so, every class can survive one combo from a plauge ogryn
They would probably be the same difficulty as the shielded Tzaangors
I think this is pretty subjective to talent trees. A zealot with martyrdom could survive for at least 6 seconds more than those guys
On the topic of that Darktide segment. The only complaint about Darktide being lore inaccurate is the fact that lasguns have recoil. Everything else seems to be on point besides that.
The power weapons are bruised third hand weapons and explains why they can’t hold a charge for too long. Also the bolter weapons, people usually forget that the bolter guns that the Space Marines use is of a higher caliber of ammunition than what the rest of the Imperial forces use. The in game the bolt guns are those of the carbine series, the same ones that the Sisters of Battle and the Arabites use. They fire a smaller caliber of ammunition more suited for average human strength and as a result the damage it can do is less than that of what you see in Space Marines 2.
Lasguns have recoil in most Black Library books tbh. I think theres this fixation on lasgun being literally laser guns when clearly it seems not to be case, Luetin made a video on it and his conclusion is this : Lasguns exist in so many variants and patterns that one can't even really claim to know what they are, whether they have recoil or not. Above all they are directed energy weapons that seems to be firing what appears to be focused light, but their inner mechanisms that we do not know about might cause some form of recoil
Yeah it's a plot point (minor as it is) that everything Brunt sells is recovered wargear from the battlefield, reject, inquisition guardsmen, or moebian 21st alike.
@@KalashVodka175 BL canon is all over the place. Codex lore states that they're recoilless weapons with few moving parts which feeds into why they were adopted. Very little maintenance and training required, perfect for arming troops en masse. They get the Accurate perk in tabletop games like Dark Heresy as well for that reason.
Isn't it canon that lasguns were given a fake recoil because otherwise the soldiers wouldn't trust them?
lasgun is a catchall for alot of different guns. Some have recoil and others don't. It just depends on which actual model they are making and that usually just changes based on where they are from. Lasgun level blueprints were given out pretty freely by the emp when he went around doing his thing, gotta arm the rabble.
(really tho recoil is cool and thats the real reason)
I think the greatest difference is that the horde of cultists that swarm you from Darktide would just be walked through by an Astarties.
Darktide gave me such trauma that I stopped playing it. It was really a stressful game. And that music, when mission is complete and hordes after hordes are coming, there are barely any bullet left and I am running towards the plane.... man, I felt like literally I am running for my life there.
Darktide is on point from that perspective, we are not really expected to come back from any mission, when we come back it felt like we barely survived. While on space marine 2, I am playing a hero, and doing heroic stunts. There is harder difficulty, yes, but it is not traumatic.
Darktide is at the very beginning of a relatively minor chaos infestation. Sure it's popping up in a location that is deemed important, but it hasn't gotten nearly as bad as it could yet.
I would love if they had some space marines show up in a cinematic style mission and they just walk through an area that would be impossible for the rejects to clear. Show how out classed we are by just one or 2 marines.
i think one of the best comparisons is the fact that in space marine 2 you can kill the cultist soldiers by walking into them. and they are a good comparison to the traitor gaurd in darktide. Also there was this story where an chaplains crozius got dropped because he got hit by a beast of nurgle than a inquisitorial aprentice took it broke the beast of nurgles back in a single strike, but the power from that strike broke both of her arms and she was wearing power armour. For context a crozius is basicly a thunder hammer. Now in this example it was an space marines power weapon. This comes from the short story argent wich is part of the vaults of terra novels.
To put things in perspective: Your Boltgun is actually a Pistol for the Space Marines 😂
Ehhh its an Arbites pattern boltgun. So similar ammo but not designed for SM use still.
i thought it was a battlesister varient?
@@Z1LT01D Nope. Sororitas pattern bolters would be much higher quality. It says in the description of the bolter its an Arbites pattern.
@@Xaxp ah ok
Arbites pattern bolters like the rejects use are mass produced, average quality steel weapons with a small 12-24 round magazines which are non automatic and fire 20mm rounds. Even then they are at the limit of what a regular human can wield.
Space marines use the Godwyn pattern bolter that is crafted from adamantium and ceramite, is fully automatic, fires 40mm grenades and had a 60 round magazine. They often weigh as much as 80kg and marines regularly fire them one handed.
TBF, by the end of the Space Marine campaign (spoilers ahead), Titus and Co are basically doing what Grey Knights should be doing. Going into that little pocket dimension to fuck up a Tzeench sorcerer and fighting a greater daemon is no easy feat, even for Marines.
2:05 you can see the Cadians still standing have purple eyes, meaning they survived the destruction of their home world, while the cadians with non purple eyes are most likely from “New Cadia.” So yeah ordinary humans can’t really handle seeing the warp, trueborn Cadians can
The Cadians with the Purple eyes continued to fight and those that didn't went crazy
Fantastic video! Just a note: the rejects (max levels ones especially) are basically implied to be amongst the best that baseline humanity has to offer on a battlefield. Like, think Gaunt's Ghosts and turn the notch up one tic. We're still just glorified janitors on a relatively clean planet, but we're punching at weight classes that would have a commissar take one look and shut the fuck right up. If a novel were written on our exploits, we'd be insufferable Gary Stu's/Mary Sue's.
Edit: for those familiar with Alfabusa's TTS, we're basically the Cato Sicarius of the Inquisition.
Thank you! And true, we are VERY strong in Darktide I absolutely did not mean to detract from our feats in Darktide. The strongest point I was trying to convey was more along the lines of "it can get MUCH worse than what we see on Tertium."
By the end of the leveling story, we are officially inquisitorial warband members, veterans are Rambo, zealots are truly blessed, all the ogryns have bone head implants, the schola proginium is the next tier of mortal fighting forces.
There was a book about space marines of the Iron Hands chapter sieging hive city, that was infested with cult of Slaanesh. Space Marines there were leading assault against daemon prince, who is in charge of the cult, while local ragtag militia did sabotage on hive city critical infrastructure. If there ever will crossover between Space Marine II and Dark Tide, it will be something like that. I would be glad to see this kind of game, but probably this won't happen in my lifetime.
I agree. A crossover would be fantastic and I wouldn’t rule it out. I wouldn’t anticipate it, but I think fatshark has been pivoting the game to set it up in a state that they can finally stop worrying about talent, crafting, weapon, and “customization” modifying being a priority and start worrying about fleshing out the maps, enemies, and stories. We’ll see what happens
If we ever see any space marines on Atoma, it will either be some grey knights blasting their way through a horde in the background of a mission, or something like a death guard character as the final boss of a mission like the Karnak twins.
@@tau-5794
Grey Knights wouldn't come to Atoma, the type of daemons running around there are far below what they're usually called for.
We won't see a Death Guard Marine either, because there is no chance in hell 4 rejects are gonna win that fight unless the Death Guard spawns in with a massive disadvantage.
Canonically, ogryns are stronger than space marines. They're like grizzly bears vs. world champion bodybuilders. In one novel: an ogryn killed a chaos marine by knocking his head off with a big friendly rock.
Right, people forget that Space Marines aren't just strong: they're fast, and intelligent. That's what puts them above Ogryns, not raw strength.
I think it’d be a sick dark tide mission if you meet a space marine. Not even play as him but have him accompany you to a location, and while he’s devastating the enemy your like the guardsmen you meet in space marine 2
I think so too, would be really fun
Would be cool if it's something like him fighting on another path that you see every once in a while just bodying ogryns and occasionally meet up throughout the mission, even something like thought would be a fun addition, could be used to hint that they are there dealing with something much worse. Could be a event even
It’d be radical if by the end of the game a fucking Grey Knight appears in front of your team and fucking kills you
I used to say that dealing with Daemonhosts was a thing for big time Inquisitors and Gray Boyz not some convicts
guess the Admonition's just really shite at making Daemonhosts. Take one look at the one in Avarax by comparison and youll see its night n day
@@shoulderpyro Daemonhosts vary greatly, depending on the process used to make it AND what daemon is bound. The daemonhosts in Darktide are used more as landmines then actual tools, left with barely functional civilians fighting for control until Inquisition forces get close.
This is why I don’t understand why people are rattled by this video. There’s a lot of variance in lore when it comes to a video game. At the end of the day, I’m reading lore to enjoy the reality of a fantasy universe, I’m playing a video game to enjoy the gameplay.
If you listen to the deamonhost before you trigger it, the human part is still activly fighting against the Deamon for control.
I think that is why it is so weak.
@@MedMed-rq5fx yep. It also flees back into the warp very quickly.
Also cool fact about the cadians that were corrupted in SM2. The cadians that are influenced/slowly getting corrupted dont have puprle eyes, but cadians that are still fighting and helping have purple eyes
I love how a lot of people were saying "they should add a Chaos Space Marine as a boss fight", like a single Death Guard marine wouldn't single handedly kill any and all rejects in the ship. It would be like toddlers trying to kill you, but you have a Desert Eagle with infinite ammo to defend yourself.
I mean, the Rejects are fighting Beasts of Nurgle, which are stronger then plague marines in the tabletop. They're each 1v1ing Plague Ogryns (which are capable of dismembering a traitor marine with their bare hands if they catch them). The idea that the 4 player rejects could overpower a single un-named plague marine is actually fairly reasonable given their power scaling.
Space Marines are powerful, but their powerscailing isn't as high as most assume.
I go by the idea of a very hurted, fucked up and mangled Death Guard, and that, you don't have to kill it, but run from it, closing doors on his face, making servitors fight it, maybe a mission of retriving an artifact and bringing it back to the Mechanicus before it gets corrupted.
I can see the tensions being very high with people being like ,''Yeah, 4 Ogryns can take him down', only to the mangled Death Guard use pieces of his arm bones to kill each ogryn with one hit.
TLDR : I Advocate by the idea of a boss Chaos Space marine, but very weakned and that you cannot kill it, no matter how hard you try, your objective is to Survive.
While marines are strong i doubt one could kill the entire mourningstar by itself, plasma guns are the go to weapon against power armor and the Inquisitor's warband don't lack those
Dumb as shit Ogryn name Brock flinging a rock at a plague marine at Mack Jesus:
@@chrip8614 I agree, I think a single traitor marine would probably be a VERY hard fight, but for the powerscale we see with the rejects, I don't think it would be unreasonable to kill an unnamed one. I think if we went up against someone like Vorx from the Lords of Silence on the other hand, we'd probably get stomped seeing as how he was basically ancient and his logic and strength were, in my opinion, a little more menacing than the typical nurgle units.
2:24 the Cadian that have fallen aren’t native to Cadia if you look at their eyes you’ll see they are not purple.
Darktide is good overall, but it needs a proper story.
So for me that leaves it at a 7.1
I can agree with that. Although, the Karnak story mixed with the slow uprising of a possible mutinity on the mourning star could set up the story for something big
@@Sgumby1 I just hope they add story lines dude
While I get what you’re putting down, a lot of these arguments could be made for the Rejects. There is no reason where being put into a Beast of Nurgles stomach shouldn’t completely corrupt you other than plot armor, let alone any of the thousands of diseases that corrupted the underhive as the launch trailer showed.
love the video and I agree, the contrast is honestly what makes the setting so fun to read about for me
Thank you very much! I love how expansive 40k is too
A Tyranid Warrior is probably roughly the same power level as a Beast of Nurgle or a Chaos Spawn. In Darktide they're a full on boss battle that you need four people wailing on with all your strength to survive. In Space Marine 2 you can kill one in like ten seconds with some sick combo moves and a finisher.
Exactly, it’s absolutely insane that some are arguing with me. A single beast of nurgle would pop like a zit from a few good power gauntlet hits, however 5 beasts of nurgle would really test the mettle of a single space marine which was my “realization” of darktide.
A tryanid warrior can also 1v1 a space marine in lore. Titus and gang are way outside the the norm for an average primaris marine, or even most named characters. It was actually kind of jarring how many feats they accomplish over the course of the campaign and side missions. Most primaris marines would have been absolutely slaughtered in a 3 man team, trying to do what they did.
The joke my friends and I say is that if the rejects played the PvE missions they'd probably all die to the first Warrior they found, and if they survived the next warrior would probably finish them off
A Warrior is likely a Monstrosity-tier threat to the Rejects.
Counterpoint would be that we have plasma guns and a funny magic man with a very lovely beloved om are side. 😊
Not to mention the big boy, if he has either the club and shield to tank or the large autogun, we could definitely kill a warrior or two.
You act as if my Ogryn cannot 1v1 a Chaos Spawn..... He can!
So can my Veteran too!
Are you guys playing the same game as me? I just played a mission where we killed 2 daemonhosts, 2 beasts of nurgle, a plague ogryn, and 2 chaos spawns that spawned at the same time, not to mention a total of something like 3,400 lesser enemies and elites and specials. And that was just in 35 minutes! There's no way we'd die at the first 'nid warrior! Maybe the 4th or 5th lol.
@@vahnn0yea but realistically you’d die to the first cultist lasgun bolt that hits you, darktide gives you waaaay more survivability for the games sake
Both Darktide and Spacemarine 2 each have their own plot devices and plot holes and even some unexplained plothole devices from Titus to literally being able to resist chaos corruption from touching the power stone from the first game and the rejects from being able to fight and win against hordes of nurgle enemies and even daemonhosts and soon genestealers if they ever add it.
I want to believe Titus has a Blank mutation :<
I want to believe the rejects are routinely scrubbed and put through a washing machine everytime they get off that transporter. The kind that would be considered a heavy surgery in today's modern society with flushed liquids into your brain, digestive tract, getting your blood and lymphatic liquids replaced and treated for EVERYTHING.
Titus isn't resistant to chaos corruption from touching the power stone, how he is resistant is unknown. He only became aware of the resistance because of the power stone and the chaos marine commander(the final boss) told him he was resistant and had a connection to the warp. Simply put, the stone didn't give him the ability, it just made it apparent.
@@Shanex250 I think they meant that titus was able to resist corruption that came from the stone, not that the resistance came from the stone. The grammar is a bit ambiguous though so I have to give it the benefit of the doubt.
@mebpo8564 oh I see it, you right chief
Just look at how the chaos cultists die in chaos missions and operations, as a Space Marine you give them a bit of a stern look and they explode, and in Darktide you are fighting them as legit enemies.
In darktide, player determines how strong the plot armor of the played character is. The more skilled you are in this game, plot armor get stronger.
Motion rejected. My loose cannon only needs a shovel to decimate the death guard
Darktide rejects are not some lowlife nobodies. They are people with experience and training. Also there are cases of regular people performing outstanding skills. Sometimes you see inquisitor going toe-to-toe with chaos dreadnaught. Or commisar, gaining respect of the strongest ork.
Plus we not fighting all 1-2k enemies at once. We meet them in small groups of 20-50.
Some enemies do raise the question. Like chaos spawn and beast of nurgle. Such foes should not be possible to overcome even by 4 skilled fighters. I'm not mentioning daemonhost, since we dont actually kill him. And rather forcing him to move.
Future enemies? Well dorment tyranids on some planet, previously invaded by some fleet splinter. With geneseed cult. Hormagaunts are perfect replacements for dogs. Swap corruption with poison and you good to go.
I do think we will be able to fight even orcs. Some small outpost on the skirts, where dumb orcs occupied something important to Inquisitor. Mostly gretchins, snotlings and squigs as enemies. Instead of ogryns - orcs. 4 rejects should be able to handle several orcs
I'd say the average ork slugga should be roughly comparable to a rager in DT, tankier than average and dangerous in melee, but otherwise easy to deal with. A nob is a perfect replacement for the enemy ogryns, as they are about the same sizes and in the same "stronger than but dumber and slower than an astartes" tier we can deal with. For monstrosities, maybe something like a big mek or squig rider would work, not quite terminator level but still really tough and able to dish out a beating.
Yarrick didn't go toe to toe with one of the greatest ork warlords just because he was strong... he made himself a legend among the orks so they believed he was strong which made him stronger. Yarrick had an army of psychic fungus powering him up to basically be goku.
So technically that is how you could make a greentide work, make the protags a legend among the orks to get a buff from them...
But under normal circumstances no human could ever stand up to an orkboy and win by anything other than a fluke.
@@tau-5794 this is incredibly off... the rager is more like a grot. I wish i was joking but in the books where guard are fighting orks often the grots take out multiple men. A standard slugger would be closer to a bulwark but speed them up by 100 times and make them better at fightin.
@wingnutmcmoomoo494 No, lmao, ogryns are far, far stronger and tougher than a standard ork boy, and orks aren't really that fast, since despite being close in strength, they routinely get massacred by space marines. Also no grot is going to take out multiple trained guardsmen, unless he's exceedingly lucky, they're about as physically capable as a human child. And regular guardsmen still routinely fight against and kill greater numbers of orks, which are many times stronger and harder to kill than a grot.
first line, yes they are. end of discussion.
Whilst I don't agree with everything said about power weapons here, the power supply is an interesting point. The ones used by people not carrying an external power supply ought to have a little internal one, which obviously would provide less activated duration.
That being said, on the models there isn't a tendency to have externally supplied ones on space Marines and the others on regular humans. I'd just write it of as a gameplay mechanic.
It would be pointless, but i cant help to imagine what a sm from Sm2 would do in a darktide mission. Even in the highest difficulty it would like a free win for the 4 rejects. I guess only the deamonhost or the beast of nurgle would be a real challenge to a space marine. Especially the deamonhost for the psychic powers.
I think about it all the time. There’s even dialogue where they ask why a space marine isn’t being employed, where the reply is alone the lines of “why do you think you’re running the mission?”
There’s a lot that could be done in darktide, and only time will tell if we get to see some type of collaboration
@@Sgumby1 I imagine the Morningstar becoming infested by Genestealers and the Captain calls in a favor and Deathwing Terminators show up to fix the problem. And you get to help out because there's just 6 of them going from deck to deck.
It would drive die hard, strict lore gestapos insane but I know the darktide community would really enjoy that, myself included
I've always really liked the Darktide experience. I think it gives a very lore accurate idea of what the inquisition's rejects would experience. Constant missions, good work is rewarded with more work. You are fodder who barely missed the black ships or penal colony duty or servitor transformation. It's brutal and gritty and shows you how shit life in the Imperium of Man is
Counterpoint: Rogue Trader.
In that game the non-enhanced humans aren't too far behind the Space Wolf. I'd argue the rejects in Darktide are on the level of those humans in Rogue trader.
That's gameplay purposes it far closer to space marine 2 what the humans would be like.
dude thats gameplay mechanics lore wise the astartes is leagues above the squad except the powerful psykers
@@tonyASi eh, if human inquisitors can be more dangerous than astartes, then so can other humans. its a combination of op gear beyond even space marines like archaeotech rings and shit, and skill on par with someone like ciaphas cain, who's able to keep up with space marines in melee without being instantly gibbed.
Eh, yes and no.
The rogue trader's background specifically puts them above the rank-and-file. They were either a Comissar, Militarum Commander, Crime Lord, Noble, or Sanctioned Psyker (My headcannon being that they were a Primaris Psyker seeing as they can unlock similar powers to the primaris psykers of the tabletop) so they would have access to the best augmentations and have already lived a heavily trained or privileged life.
Abelard is a former Naval Officer, years of real experience. Idiria is an unsanctioned psyker who somehow still *alive* which speaks to her ability, Cassia is a navigator, Argenta is trained by the Adeptus Sororitas, Heinrix is an Inquisitor, Jae is a Baron of the Cold Trade, Pasqal is a Magos of the Ad Mech, Yrilet is a trained Eldar Sharpshooter, and Marazhai is the Archon of a Kabal in Comorroagh. All of these people are WAY stronger than Darktide's playable characters. The veteran is just a guardsman, the orgryn is just that, the psyker is maybe 1/10th the power level of a primaris, and the zealot is really loves golden daddy.
The rejects would be elite guardsmen level enemies, that is an annoyance for sure but is generally beneath the notice of the RT and their retinue.
To put things in perspective. A beast of nurgle, a boss in Darktide. Costs half the points of a helbrute.
It's so stupid when people say "well in Darktide you just play as a reject so Orks and even Hormagaunts would just tear you apart".
No, no they wouldn't, and you aren't JUST rejects, each of you are basically an elite of you're respective origin, the hint is in things like the title "Veteran".
People don't seem to get that through the levels we routinely kill armed and armoured Ogryns, which have strength and durability comparable to an Astartes just without the intelligence and toys like power armour.
Hormagaunts and Ork boys are entirely possible as grunt level enemies (With Gretchins and rippers being the swarm level enemies like pox walkers).
Exactly and during the horus heresy there was even a fight where the guy in charge outfitted his regiment of ogryn withe power armor and astartes weapons and combat drugs it took horus himself showing up to finally get his legion through the hallway of the station
It's not like they use shitty equipment either. The veteran can handle the equivalent of a bolt and Plasma pistol and the Zealot runs around with Astartes sized Chainswords .
Except the fact that rippers and gaunts would just flood the level and tear all of them apart in seconds
You forget the part where Hormagaunts swarm areas in the thousands, are always led by multiple warriors, and the Termagaunts fire fleshborers. Getting hit by lasfire is one thing. Getting hit by a fleshborer is a one way ticket to agony. And lets not even get started on the Nids bringing in stuff like Carnifexes, Gargoyles and Zoanthropes (nevermind a Neurothrope), or hell. a group of Biovores.
As for the Orkz.. May I redirect you to Helsreach and see how well that turned out for the average Guardsman? Flashlights do barely anything unless in great numbers, and the Orkz, unfortunately, come in even greater numbers.
Ok… I didn’t really say that though did I? I was staying that if tertium was invaded by tyranids at the scale se faced in sm2, we as 4 rejects would rona my not stand a chance. A single hormaguant is the size of a human… as the rejects we could probably take a few on I guess. A reject against a horde of tyranid with melee and ranged infantry plus a couple of warriors and a zoanthrope would probably end like most of your maelstrom matches when you go ahead of everyone, die to 3 crushers, and leave the game. I’d love to see these factions in darktide, it was a staement on the reality of the situation
I 100% had not taken a step back to think about this, super interesting.
Inquisitor: "Look, I don't know if you were actually innocent and I really don't care. What I do know is that there is a pretty big cult of Nergal growing in the lower levels of one of the hives down there. So in exchange for not having you executed, I'm sending you down there to clean it up."
Reject: "Wha- Why?! Your an inquisitor! Why can't you just have the guard or the governor's troops do it?"
Inquisitor: "Simple. The food chain. You see, on top there's the Emperor, then there's me, then there's the space marines."
Reject: "Oh so your going to call them?"
Inquisitor: "No, are you stupid?" *slaps Reject across the face* "Then there's the Imperial Guard and the Navy, then there's the planetary governor, and then there's the ordinary citizens of the empire."
Reject: "Oh, that's me!"
Inquisitor: "Still no! Then there's The penal legions."
Reject: "Now that ones got to be me."
Inquisitor: "I'm getting there - I'm getting there. Then there's the hive gangers, there's abhumans, there's mutants, there's grox shit, and then there's you!"
Reject: "... That's messed up..."
Inquisitor: "The point is that this problem isn't worth my time, resources, or attention to deal with. That's why you and the rest of your Reject pals who I just picked up off the prison ship are going down there. Now get down there before I have you shot!"
🤣🤣 well said. That was pretty funny
this needs to be pinned. Fact is, not even the Inquisitor is talking, it's one of the sergeants of the Inquisitor's retinue XD
This is now Lore.
Idk, Daemonhosts are pretty spicy but my zealot's thunderhammer can two tap them, whereas the space marine's cannot
Not since the rework
You underestimate the role of the dejects a bit. Sure, they're not a whole space marine company, but still they end up fighiting daemonhosts and beast of nurgle which are in term of strength above the average demon by a good margin.
Power weapons aren't used exclusively with power armor. Most of the models in the guard that have them don't have power armor. The Astartes models are heavier, of course, but the normal ones are perfect for normal people.
I think a lot of people thought I was calling the Rejects flat out weak. I didn't mean that, I should've been more clear on my perspective. I think a plantery invasion of tyranids or orks would be overwhelming. There were past discussions on other videos about what I'd like to see added to Darktide, where people were actually arguing with me saying "greenskins would clap us." I think a full blown wah would be impossible for the whole mourningstar to defend against, but a band of pirate orks like the Freebooters raiding us would be a fantastic mission
"What wars must there be in creation that require warriors like you" sums it up pretty well.
Reminder that the astropath we see getting possed in SM2 would floor 4 psykers from darktide
And on the psyker foodchain, she barely can be considered above average
That's not true at all. Astropaths aren't battle psykers and are really only good at long range telepathy with few exceptions. She would have absolutely no chance against 4 psykers that are able to fight against daemon hosts and chaos cultists regularly without being possessed. The reject psyker can stay at high peril (resisting a daemon possession) for an entire mission and be fine. They are able to stun lock hordes of enemies and use a wide array of psychic abilities. They can instakill almost any human sized enemy and can 2 shot enemies that have the same physical durability as an average space marine. The astropath would get mollywhopped by one reject psyker, let alone four.
it also does put into perspective that while the rejects ARE weaker than space marines obviously, they fight things still way above that of normal guardsmen as just a group of 4, daenon hosts, chaos spawn, beasts of nurgle, etc. It's kinduv insane how strong the rejects are.
The horrific difference is a spacemarine simply RUNS through a human like it's paper-mache. As seen in the game. That's sets the level in which the spacemarines are in compared to an "elite" reject .
Both games are so cool.
To be fair I do think an ogryn would do the same. They are freakishly strong.
@@deaditedude9201 a ogryn in power armour... yeah, i can see that doing the job
Another compassion to make. The bolter you use in Darktide, which takes a century to reload and suffers kickback like a monster, is of a smaller scale and caliber primarily utilized by members of the Sisters of Battle. The rejects arent even capable of using proper Astartes weapons
One glaring issue with SM2 - the power armour seems to not be powered. Which is to say, the marines move like they pooped themselves; there's no indication of the suit enhancing their strength and agility... on the contrary, it's as if the people animating the power armour were unaware that it's more than just bits of armour strapped to a muscular dude.
THIS, it's especially painful when you try to "sprint" and you move barely faster than normal
You are enhanced but you are playing as them. You are waaay faster than the guardsmen you both kill and help
Yeah... You move *kinda* like how you move when wearing power armour in Fallout 4, which is to say it's all big and clunky but powerful...
But I guess I'd been conditioned by Astartes to view the Marine's Power Armour as more of a second skin that they were able to move gracefully and at speed in.
it's weird because during Melee combat you move like a water but when walking or running its kind of robotic
@@theguycisterninoyelledat6272 Which is pretty much how it was in SM1 too
Both studios understood the assignment.
For sure
I got into an argument on the Darktide Subreddit because some dudes were thinking we Rejects could handle a Plague Marine as a boss. Dude. We can barely handle newborn Daemonhosts and Plague Ogryns. The fact any of the Rejects can even survive exposure to a Daemonhost and don't melt into rotten flesh puddles at the mere smell of a Plague Ogryn is already an Emperor-blessed miracle. The only reason we are still alive is that Nurgle himself hasn't even taken notice of Atoma. One of his greater demons may have, but its most likely just Admonition summoning daemons and eventually Nurgle may take notice. There is no way we could take on a Plague Marine. He could destroy us, literally, by breathing on us. The only way I could see a Plague Marine working is if an Astartes wounded it and died doing so, and we spent the entire 30 minute mission running from the Plague Marine and luring him into a trap and finishing it with overwhelming DAKKA. Probably crashing a train filled with explosives into it. It really blows my mind how the power scaling is lost on people who engage with 40K. We are like, the rats feeding on the roaches. We work together enough we might be able to beat the cat, the Daemonhosts and Plague beasts, but eventually, the Exterminator is going to come and wipe us out without a second thought.
Mean while the naked zealot killing bosses in 2 hits with a butter knife
Orrr. you could just give a Ratling a sniper rifle with some esoteric DaoT rounds and tell him 'Head shots only.'
Even a space marine needs his head/brain to still fight and function.
Yes, we all know that the Spez muhreens are meant to be the untouchable gods of the setting, but a well positioned sniper, with the right rounds that could penetrate the helmet and explode their targets head is still going to kill that space marine, loyalist OR chaos.
I could deffo see a wounded Chaos marine as a viable boss fight in darktide, perhaps making it even more lore viable by having an npc character involved in the fight 'weakening' it further, but still having the battle be extremely tough with the highest difficulty level.
@@alias234 Plague marines specifically are exeption of the general rule you described since they are mega-durable even by spacemarine standarts and probably can shrug off even a bullet to the cranium.
@@Steir12 But wouldt the presence of such a rotting body with who knows what cancer just infect and kill us? So even being nearby would be fatal. And nearby might aswel be a huge radius i believe
@@tuellecke1339 Yeah, it totally would. Frankly being within like the same time zone with beast of nurgle would likely be death sentence but our brave 4 seems to be unbothered.
I mean, after playing Space Marine 2
Even the regular melee enemies with shields of the Thousand Sons would be special enemy material in Darktide
About orcs and tyranids are too much for Darktide, I'd disagree.
There is Nacromunda setting in WH40k universe, where battles are running on low level of hive city. Without any space marines, mostly by wargangs with human limitations.
And GW set there small orc band, tyranid geenestealer cult, a few chaos cults. And they are on equals. Not all orc gang is planetary level threat. Not every tyranid is the horde. They have their low scale detachements too.
Yes, usual orc would probably be as thick as mutie from Darktide. For horde, squigs and gretchins could be used. Many wierdboyz, painboyz and mechboyz would be perfect as specialists. Maybe just more tanky. And minor warboss as monstrosity. It can work.
Anyway, our playable characters are already overpowered. Veteran should be on same level as elite gunner. Ogin is just ogrin. In game reality he can take 3-5 ogrins by himself. Bolter weapons are usually locked for Spacemarines or at least powerarmor users, shouldn't be working for Darktide characters, maybe only ogrin. So we are already overpowered in comparison with necromunda . Beating some minor orcs systematically should not be a problem.
Other problem, orcs, tyranids and chaos cultists are totally not friends. They would not fight together. In vermentid at least all 3 factions are branches of chaos and alliance between them is possible. So Fatsharks would be needing to make second game in this one. While they still didn't even finished weapon leveling system.
Personally, I think even though Darktide Humans would be able to largely handle Orks, I do think they would get ran straight over by a horde of Orks the size of the waves seen in Darktide, at least assuming that the majority of the force are Ork Boyz. If they were grots, then fair enough but Grots are rarely the main force. I think also it would be harder to justify the melee pillar of the game when an Ork Boy is just way more optimized for Melee than most Humans will be.
Tyranids also have their own unique strengths and some units that just would rip a space marine let alone a human in two.
I think personally, Genestealer cult or other chaos cult Humans/Ogryns are a perfect lore justification for seeing the absolute chaos we see in Darktide. Though there are some things likewise that no Human could beat alone present in Darktide, the same could be said for a game like space marine. Save some absolutely plot armored marines, no 3 Marines will be able to take a Carnifex with Hormagaunts supporting it.
Bolters in Darktide aren't Space Marine bolters, bolters in general aren't limited to Marines.
Smaller patterns of bolters are produced all over the Imperium. They are just less practical logistically speaking than lasguns and autoguns because bolts are large, bulky, heavy and not really efficient in sustained warfare.
On Necromunda, local beat cops (NOT ARBITES! Local planetary cops, altho they are pretty hardcore tbf) uses human pattern bolters routinely.
@@spanishinquisition7623
I think most weaponry deployed by the rejects (and even by regular guardsmen) would be able to handle the horde units of all major factions in 40k. Ork Boys (not Nobz, who can tank perhaps a mag) are tough but not immune to getting shot and dying to a couple "mere" lasgun shots to the torso or to the head, and gaunts are much the same except they are not even as tough as Ork Boys (altho likely faster)
So there you got it : the two most common enemy of the guard (apart from other humans themselves) can be killed somewhat reliably with weapons that are available to the rejects.
Anything bigger of course would be harder to justify. I think the rejects can handle nobz, they are tough but not invincible. A warboss would definitely be a god tier boss fight tho.
we have a bolter pattern thats designed for humans, in tabletop, guardsmen can equip a single man in a unit with a bolter as an upgrade to a lasgun--so that's very much lore accurate.
I agree. This video was speaking more from a perspective of a mass invasion being hard for the rejects to handle. I think a mission where an exploration of an abandoned battle barge outside of tertium being botched due to an ork party attacking would be very fun and realistic, where we might have to fight our way out to get off the barge in time.
This is compared to what I was speaking of in relation to sm2’s invasion scale, the rejects holding off an entire greenskin wah or a tyranid invasion would be pretty tough on even the entire mourningstar’s population of rejects
Reject when in front of a chaos space marine: *arms krak grenade*
*Sticks it up chaos marine's butt*
this video made me realize that a game like Darktide/Vermintide were we play as Orks would have endless possibilities regarding enemy, weapons and missions
As a guy who got into warhammer through darktide, i did wish we had different type of enemies to fight but after beating Space Marines 2, these brothers are on a whole different caliber of threat than some nurgle bois or mobian 6. Maybe the rejects are better off this way lol
Lol thank you someone who isn’t telling me I’m a douche and wrong. I was simply stating that a gaggle of warriors, hormagaunts, zoanthropes, etc would REALLY throw a wrench in the reject’s days
That's not just a psycher... That's a choir master Astropath that got possessed in Space Marine 2.
In reference to the the Cadians in space marine 2 there’s actually an interesting fact with them
If you look really closely, all of the cadian guardsmen who got driven mad in the game had normal eyes colors, meanwhile all of the ones who remained of sound mind and continued to fight had the purple eyes, that is they were the True born cadians and thus they were resistant to the warp
(Due note I’m reciting these things from what I’ve heard from my more knowledge 40K friends, do not crucify me for me getting facts wrong)
In the eternal twilight of a celestial battlefield, where stars weep and cosmic winds howl, shines the edict: "It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself."
We do what we gotta do down here
One of the main things SM2 put in perspective for me, was just how good the combat loop in Darktide actually is.
The combat feels amazing compared to space marine. Couldnt care less about the power fantasy... Darktide is fun, feels good, and you have total control over the combat... the other is all over the place, its more reactive than anything, and janky
What's funny is that there are some cadian's in the final level of SM2 were indeed still sound of mind, even ones within the warp that still put up a fight, though they die just before you reach them.
You can feel the power fantasy in darktide even on the hardest difficulties, sm2 on the other hand turns into elden ring with endless roll spamming like youre a little fruitcake
skill issue unfortunately
@@Blueybeak play the game against chaos on ruthless, come back and tell me how fun it is
@@Blueybeak wet brain takes like yours are the reason the idea of a difficulty being a bullet sponge enemy still persists even into sm2 being released
@@TheBionil chaos ruthless is not hard above level 20 with heavy/vanguard/sniper, with other classes you need a good team but I've beaten operations 3-5 with bots using those three classes. I agree the bullet sponge approach isn't ideal but it seems like nothing more than a way to ensure that you can't breeze through ruthless without artificer or relic weapons. Basically all you need is a weapon that can kill a majoris faster than you can be killed in the middle of a swarm, then you just chain endlessly, I usually only die if I run out of ammo
@@Blueybeak it’s beatable, but it’s not fun, you there’s no feeling of being a space marine. Difficulty that is poorly and lazily done to make the game a slog to play
In our defense, that wasn’t just any ordinary daemon. That was the “I’m gonna blow your freaking mind literally” daemon
I always thought that if Darktide ever had a final boss it would be a single Plague Marine. It doesn't have to be an established character just some random Marine sent by Typhus to investigate the Tertium Cult.
Great video! Guardsmen are regularly deployed to fight against Orks, Gene Stealers, and Tyranids provided that the invading force isn't too large for them to handle. A good example can be basically almost all of the Ciaphas Cain books where space marines are very rare, yet he and the regiment he is attached to regularly fight off Ork and Gene Stealer invasions. I think that for Darktide, Gene Stealers would be more likely to be put in the game, and I really think they should. Orks might be a little hard to fit into the overall narrative of the game, but I'm sure that we would be able to handle them without special support from space marines as they are only sent to places where the conflict has escalated beyond guard control or there is something of absolute strategic value such as the titans in the first game or Aurora in the second.
darktide should be ooerations in sm2 :)
I’m hoping there’s a collab with sm2 and darktide seeing as how sm2 has already been confirmed to be getting additional classes, operations, etc
yeh the mostly truly nightmarish creatures in Darktide are the actual daemons like the beast of nurgle and the possessed i remember every time someone first ran into either and they would just be screaming
Would it be fair to say that the bolter in Darktide is equal to the Bolt carbine or bolt pistol in Space Marine 2?
Not going off of caliber size, going off of raw damage output on a per-shot basis.
The bolter in Darktide is pretty much what the space marines use. The whole "bolt carbine" thing only came into being with the primaris marine nonsense being introduced to the setting. So yeah, bolt carbines are just normal bolters.
Bolt shells are standardized across the imperium, with only two calibers being the standard bolt being .75cal and the heavy bolter shell being 1.0cal.
The only difference between the bolters normal humans use and the ones that space marines use is the furniture and the grip of the weapon are scaled to the user. Otherwise they use the same ammo.
There was a smaller caliber bolt round during the great crusade used by Tigrus pattern boltguns that was used by space marines, but they were phased out for the larger caliber.
Space marines and regular people have different bolters. They are bigger and fire slightly faster rounds
@@windrider970 Are we seeing that being reflected in either gameplay in terms of one-shot killing human-sized targets, with a mag or two needed to destroy a minor target? Legacy Astartes bolter vs Darktide's Arbitite pattern bolter (which has less features and lower capacity to be welded without power armor).
Just seeing a space marine would cause some people to have an anxiety attack.
Your point about the weapons is spot on.
If there was to be a Space Marine encounter I’d really hope it was just a single marine from the Alpha Legion and that it would be something the players would have to puzzle out in Darktide.
Plasma gun. The great equalizer. Its never brought up when people talk about how destructive space marines are, and i can only assume its because it blows up the argument.
Besides, ogryns are just built different. I want to see my Ogryn rip some Tyranids in half. Rejects could handle this shit just fine, at least if you believe they could survive an auric mission as is now.
Plasma guns are temperamental, take time to charge, glow, and fire slow projectiles. A space marine is not just armored, they are hyper intelligent super-soldiers loaded with the absolute best sensors available.
@@sheeplord4976 Which is why they love to bolt them vehicles? Why they have knockoff aspect warrior teams dedicated to studying the plasma?
Well if the plasma is too temperamental for you then why not the ubiquitous melta? Honestly it makes less sense for the plasma to exist in darktide than the melta, but that's an argument for another time.
The imperium has the technology to let a guardsmen kill large enemies. They just gotta hit that 4+
@@sheeplord4976 we also have bolt guns that are relatively effective against marines, we'll undoubtedly get melta guns, long-las can take out marines...etc
Ik what you’re saying but idk if we could handle a full blown invasion of tyranids on tertium. Scrawny little cultists and poxwalkers, a couple of beasts of nurgle/chaos spawns/plague ogryns mixed with specialists and elites are a little exaggeration of the potential of our rejects but obviously doable even on auric maelstrom. But a global invasion that requires space marines to intervene would push it imo
The Rejects: Nah I'll win
ok so i havent watched it yet, but i wanna make a guess... is it about how absolutely empty the entire city seems?
like in darktide is supposed to be a massive hivecity under attack, and yet you hear no gunfire, no screams or explosions in the distance, see no fights on distant bridges, no valkyries flying past to do attack runs?
even in the starts where you spawn in friendly territory and have allied npc's and tanks there, they just.. sit there, not even firing a shot, same with the enemies.
alright, just got to the end, and i agree with most points. though it has to be said its a nurgle outbreak in darktide, we would be dead as soon as we set foot on the planet :')
The hab blocks you are sent to in Darktide are under quarantine. You are located FAR from the frontlines. The missions you are being sent on are essentially just sidequests in the greater campaign for Tertium. If you succeed in the mission, that'll help the frontlines a little bit. But if you get wiped and fail the mission, nobody will even notice.
That's how insignificant you really are in Darktide.
@@aRandomFox00 in a few of the missions you spawn right next to a line of tanks and soldiers, all just looking to the other side of the bridge.
none of them do anything.
i really love darktide, but just.. having a bit more chaos could go a long way in setting the atmosphere a bit better
@@overlordtrazyn861 that same level you see some fighting if you look over to the other bridges.
@@jpmrwiggles121 that i either dont remember or never noticed, havent played in a while. i just remember looking around in a lot of the parts before you enter an airlock, and there just.. isnt anything
A single weak Chaos Space Marine would be a Hard Boss fight in Darktide
Even a space marine neophyte without all his power armour and unfinished implants would kill them all. They literally train those mini space marines by letting them fight fully grown orks with nothing but a chainsword and bolt pistol.
I feel like darktide would have made more sense being played by astartes, or some other more superpowered characters from 40k like assassins or something. Darktide is honestly kinda silly where you are just playing as 4 normal human soldiers fighting off endless hordes of enemies and just shaking off hits like it barely even phases you while being able to cut through multiple enemies with a single swing of a melee weapon. 40k already has a clearly defined scale of power with all of the different units and characters and the feats you are capable of in darktide simply don't match that of a regular or elite guardsmen.
In lore the size of the uprising they are dealing with isn't bad enough to call in the Astartes, once it becomes a world ending sort of threat THEN the Astartes are called in at which point it's a planetary scale chaos invasion not just a few hab blocks in a Hive city. Remember the shear scale of a Hive City in 40k having a few billion in a really big one and a few hundred million in the average so the numbers of cultists you mow down are not even a dent in the local population. Although it is VERY concerning there are deamons about and deamon hosts in those areas which does not bode well for the City or the planet frankly.
@@taliawtf6944its worth mentioning that despite powerscales being set in 40k, these are constantly being pushed aside for the sake of plot
Even in Space Marine 1 and 2 Titus achieves feats that should be impossible for a lone Space Marine
Stuff like 1vs1 a Demon Prince or whole packs of Bloodletters
And then theres stuff like Fire Warrior where a lone Tau was able to cut through hundreds of Guardsmen, a Valkyrie, dozens of Space Marines, Stormtroopers, Admech, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Dreadnaught, SEVERAL DEMON PRINCES, a pretty big Chaos Spawn and then a Lord of Change
Over the course of 24 hours
IT'S QUIET @@Kosmonaut-95
@@Kosmonaut-95 We don't talk about Fire Warrior.
I think darktide stretches the limit, but I wouldn't discount the "lowly" veteran guardsman. In Dark Heresy, a true veteran guardsman is an absolute killing machine for instance, even against mid tier threats like Orks.
To me, veteran guardsmen should have no problem mowing down hordes of poxwalkers and lowly cultists. Literally none. It becomes a bit trickier when they are depicted as mowing down Moebian 8th guardsmens as if they were nothing : sure, the rejects are elites and will likely fuck up the average Moebian, but not when outnumbered so vastly.
So I guess its hit and miss
I love that the chainsword and the combat knife are bigger than a 6 foot man like a chainsword is basically like guts sword to us
Lmao dont excuses fatsharks piss poor planning. They can put in whatever they want. The real reason is cause fatshark bunggled a game a shouldve
Had in the bag. Had they took over the UI, leveling and equipment systems from vermintide 2. It wouldve been waay better received.
I hadn’t excused them, if anything I’ve roasted the shit out of them in past videos and said the same thing. They dropped the ball hard, they had a fullly fleshed out system they could’ve copy and pasted from vt2 that they could have EASILY expanded on. I still enjoy darktide either way
Seeing the difference between the threats in both games, I can't imagine how difficult a single Thousand Sons chaos marine would destroy you so quickly, including most of Tertium's lower levels
To put it into scale, any majoris enemies would basically be considered a boss like the monstrosities. Terminus enemies like the Helbrute might as well be considered raid bosses especially.
Greenskins can work in Darktide so long as all the horde enemies are Snotlings, Gretchin and smaller-sized squigs (of which there are many species to choose from). Then the first Orks you fight are Runtherdz and Trappas Specialists. Then the squads of Elites can just be regular Ork Boy "newborns." They don't even need to have any good armor, outside of just being bigger than you. The Bosses/Captains can be Nobs, or other special orks like a Mekboy or Flashgit.
Thanks for the upload man!
Definitely! Thanks for the comment
Honestly if it’s a more simple marine type like ultramarines ( if we’re ignoring faction allegiances) or more believably the black legion I think a reject kill team could hypothetically take a 3 man squad of them. If we’re talking by game logic the rejects could take much worse than a bolter round judging by the fact that they can take plasma bolts to the chest and the psykana shield on the psyker would also prove very useful. Or if we’re going for a more realistic approach just about everyone other than the zealot becomes about 2 to 3 times stronger with the vet getting access to plasma guns, krak grenades and power swords, the psyker would just start bending reality (as unsanctioned psykers tend to do) and the ogryn could suddenly go toe to toe with the marines in terms of physical strength, even the zealot has access to a thunder hammer which would cave in their ceremite armor rather well. As for battle planning the whole gyst would be that the rejects sit behind a psykers psykana shield and have the vet and psyker hit them at range. Then if they close for melee they have an ogryn and a thunder hammer to deal with.
"With all do respect, we are cadians. We can handle ourselves."
The recoil of most actual space marine bolters would kill you outright as a normal human, there is a bit in one of the books where a guardman wants to make a marine notice him so he takes a bolter of a fallen marine and goes to fire it the marine shouts at him not to but is to late as the gun rips his arms of smashes him in the face and pulverises his skull, so service to say yeah, like even amounts human ranks the psykers in the rejects squads are so low on the rating they were not picked up by the fleets looking for souls for big E's lunch.
Im just happy to fight something else than god damn Nurgle all the time.
Reminds me of the chats i had with fellow rejects a few times now, where those that have maybe seen some majorkill(love his stuff dont get me wrong) stuff beyond the game itself, going "Cant wait for the next update where they gotta add a chaos space marine as an enemy, thatd be so cool" and everyone that knows lore at least enough to go "lmao no"
makes me think of a interaction between a reject team where they come up to a csm going "were gonna kill u!!!" and the csm goes "lol", atomizes the skull or bisects the body of anyone caught out in the open with a single bolter round, "lmao" repeals any magic by the psyker before putting a bolt into their skull too, maybe needing a few more before scoring a hit from the migraine they might cause. Sure the ogryn might get a lucky swing on one of em but unless the big boys luck is blessed by the big e himself the csm slices off the ogryns arm before tearing off his head too then
I could see something like Orcs, Tyranids or any other sort of Warp-anomaly being a possible enemy in Darktide, but that would require a bit of a change in the levels narrative, for example, assuming that at some point, the Morning Tide ship had to make a relocation outside of the planet to pick up new soldiers for the inquisitor, more chaff for the training so to speak, and during one of those warp-travels, a Ork Weird-boy and a few of his minions teleport on, most of the enemies would be Gretchin, Squiggs and the occasional minor warp-entity, like a few possessed servitors or similar, and the ORKS themselves could be similar to the Plague Ogryns, Beasts or Nurgle or such, because they are almost if not as durable as such beings, being Orks, and then the Weird-boy himself could be a boss-fight similar to the assassin target, which he would have a personal shield come up every now and then followed by more waves of Squiggs and or Gretchin.
As for Tyranids, well, maybe one of the Inquisitors personal experimental Hormagaunt escaped, and its now as big as a normal Warrior, that could be a interesting hunt.
I actuall just made a new video talking about this stuff. I think the most lore-sensical and power-friendly way to go about introducing Orks to the game would be to have a Freebooterz raiding party attack Tertium.
The Space Marines in SM2 turn chaos cultist into clouds of red mist just by running into them, the main enemies in Darktide XD