Bonus Drive Thru: Jim Cornette on Overachievers & Underachievers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2017
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Eddie Gilbert was married to Missy Hyatt in her prime and Medusa prework when she was a 20 on a scale of one to ten, so that’s a real overachiever.
but he fucked up every money opportunity he was given everywhere he went. Always the next big thing, but he never drew and never got anywhere beyond a few small indies.
LOL! LIKE A WHALE, NO BONE STRUCTURE! I love Mick, Cactus is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time.
I agree 100% with Cornette's assessment of Mick Foley. 👍
Buddy Landell is the best example of such to me.
Agreed!
Eddie Gilbert, Shane Douglas and Raven are the very definition of underachievers.
Foley, Mikey Whipwreck, Dusty, Vader and Jake are classic cases of overachievers.
I remember "Dead & Bloated" by STP. That's the name of the song, all right. Corny even got the guitar riff right.
I love listening to Jim Cornette. He's funny as hell. I'd have never thought he was so funny as much as i hated him in the 80s.
Dusty vs. Tully in 1985 showed that Dusty had athletic ability . . . .
I look forward to these so much. Thanks for the great work guys.
I grew up across the street from the guy who asked this question, Eric Dorris. We were all watching wrestling inn the early 80's. I'm 47 now.
Mark Smith I’m from White House too! Small world!!
Tom Magee in the movie Stone Cold with Brian Bosworth looked like a Super sized Kenny Omega.
Bobby eaton and buddy rose as overachievers and paul roma and tom zenk as underachievers
Andrew Wheeler Bobby Eaton was amazing in the ring, just didn't know what to do with a mic.
lewis morrison: And I'd say Tom Zenk was good all around but nothing stood out to make him seem great to the powers that be.
Underachiever. The Dynamite Kid. When Bret Hart says your the best wrestler he's ever been in the ring with that's high praise.
I feel like Davey Boy Smith as a single really underachieved, always felt that he would've been a better champ than Diesel
Sid Vicious: underachieving
Dag gum son u hit the nail on the head with that one. Geeesss he could've been better. Very good one
That's fair.
Barry horawitz overachiever but underrated
Ric Flair, you could argue was an overachiever, due to the fact that he started out as an overweight power wrestler, who was in a plane crash who stayed with it, worked his ass off, completely changed his body type, his wrestling style, and invented the character that would become the Ric Flair we all came to love and hate.
David Childers Without the crash he'd have been Dino Bravo.
You just made the case for him being AWESOME and worked his ass off - so he wasn't and over achevier - he earned it
@@teddygilliam1172 Over-achievers generally earn that reputation. It's not something just given to them.
I dont think thats overachieving really. When I think of Overachieving, I think of someone who had setbacks from the get go. Bad looking, terrible body, no athleticism, ect. I think Ric just adapted and worked his ass off.
Chris Adams was an underachiever ... Tommy Rich is an underachiever despite having been NWA champion ...
Jerry Lawler really never went to the gym. I always assumed he might have at least worked out a little bit, I mean he was not muscular but at the same time he wasn't really that scrawny either.
He had to have a decent amount of strength to be able to pile-driver mofos
Biggest underachiever - Brad Armstrong. Change my mind.
Underachiever list needs Barry Wyndham. He was a project of his generation though. One of the best. He just didn't want it. His nephew on the other hand wants it but backstage politics killed his push. Same way they did Cesaro.
Agreed! Barry windham was phenomenal! But couldnt hold it up
The title is a bit difficult because it implies they didn't work hard enough or worked to hard. But underachiever in the sense discussed: Teddy Hart and Shelton Benjamin. Teddy goofs himself over and Vince has just never seen Shelton's worth
The night before a WWF house show at the Catholic Youth Center (CYC) in Scranton, PA, I saw Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart downtown at Rocky's Lounge. I went over to talk to him, and he introduced me to Megaman. I talked to him for a few minutes. I saw him wrestle the next night. I was impressed, and kept an eye out for him on TV, but that never happened.
I'd kill to be able to say "Jim 'The Anvil' Neidhart introduced me to Megaman"
When I first started to talk to The Anvil, he asked me "How's fishin'?" Rocky's was a good place to pick up women, but at the time, his question went right over my head.
I was not totally sure if I was going to the wrestling event the following evening. Megaman told me that I sounded like I was a really big fan, and that I really should attend. The following night I took my little sister to the matches. Since my sister was in junior high school, after the matches, I took her home. I did not go Rocky's to see if any of the wrestlers were there.
I have never encountered other wrestlers at Rocky's. One another night before a wrestling event at the CYC, I was in another bar in Scranton. One of my friends stopped in at that bar. He said that he was just at Rocky's and the Bushwackers were out on the dance floor doing their Bushwacker dance. I was in the middle of reeling in a fish at the place where I was, so I did not venture to Rocky's.
Oddly enough, about 10 years earlier, my high school band played at a campaign event for the reelection of Jimmy Carter, about a block away from Rocky's, at the Hotel Casey. I shook hands with Vice President Walter Mondale.
The biggest over-achiever in wrestling surely must be Billy Kidman (Torrie Wilson)
@MeNoSpeakJubberish She's right up there with the top five. Never could understand why she was inducted into the HOF.
He was an over achiever until his career stalled and he didn't become the star she thought he would be....thats why she dropped him like a bad habit after she became the bread winner
@@trahapace150 I think billy was cheating on her with another girl , spot and money had nothing to do with it
@@vlare3636 That would make Billy Kidman the Hugh Grant of wrestling!
I felt that Test couldve had a big future and even though he won the belt I thought Christian shouldbe had a better and more successful career.
Shouldve
Dusty was an underachiever. If he'd lost weight and muscled up combined with his charisma and promos he'd have been an even bigger deal.
That was his charm. He looked normal.
Looking back at Memphis now, Eddie Gilbert reminds me do much if young Jerry Lawler. Listen to his promos he even sounds like heel Lawler. Rip Eddie Gilbert.
Despite all his achievements, my current example for an underachiever is Randy Orton. No wrestler, except maybe The Rock, had so much going for him from the start. Distinctive good looks, great body, natural athleticism, natural in-ring intelligence and psychology, strong promo skill, wrestling pedigree, the "it" factor. Even his gimmicks (Legend Killer, Apex Predator) were good. I always thought if he had the ambition and work ethic of The Rock or John Cena, he would have been an all time great and top draw. Still could be I guess but it's doubtful.
I'd say when sid was in the ring with the steiners he got hurt.
I actually saw Scottie McGee at a house show in Jersey.
Eric Embry was an over achiever had a ton of heat for a chubby no body guy
The only guy who became more popular than the von Erics in Texas
According to Arn's book Zenk was the biggest underachiever. I have to agree, he was a great athlete, muscular, and was handsome. However, he never really made it.
Thanks for the laugh at 1:05-1:08 Corny I needed that today
The Mulkey brothers could have done a lot more
Brian Danielson is definitely an over achiever
Vader could have achieved more in WWF no doubt, had Shawn Michaels not politiced him out of the title and eventually out of the company. But at least he held the WCW title.
Shawn made it sound like he was Ryback when in reality Shawn just didn't want to put Vader over.
Tom McGee was the very definition of million dollar body, two cent brain. He was a beast physically but just couldn't work worth a squat
Sarah Smith: From what some have told me McGee came off as "too nice" for the wrestling business and just didn't get it. It's probably a good thing he went on to different endeavors.
Maybe vince could have sent mcgee to go work with bret and stu in the dungeon so he could be polished. Few years with them and mcgee could have been a star.
Perc Angle too !
Ironic, because they were trained together, but Mick Foley and Shane Douglas were the prototypical over and underachievers.
Mick had lower mid-card heel written all over him, but his humor and passion for the business allowed him to connect with the fans in a special way and he became an icon.
People really did tag Shane as the next Ric Flair. He had the look, the promo, the work, and the brains, but his career was just marred by so much conflict with everyone that he couldn't land in one place and get over.
The massage guy that Jim talked about was also Sub-Zero in the original Mortal Kombat movie.
WHAT!!!!! WOW
Francois Petit
I remember the McGee match with Arn Anderson not being too horrible. But Arn could have a serviceable match with a broomstick back then (and outside of the Renegade, for most of his career).
I remember reading about m
Overachiever : Arn Anderson
I feel like Barry Windham has to be an under-achiever.
He had a great look, exceptional athleticism, and in his prime he was the best worker in the world.
He was limited as a talker, but if he'd have had the desire of a Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, DDP, etc there isn't much he couldn't have done in wrestling.
I think you're probably right. Barry didn't have the drive to play politics and fight for his "spot" and so on, which in a way is a good quality but it helped to hold him back, because from the mid-80s to at least '89 he was the best worker in the US. By the time they finally put the NWA title on him he was a bit past his prime and the NWA belt was secondary to the WCW one. People thought of Barry as being old by the time of the Monday Night War but he was younger than Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, etc., and only a couple of years older than Austin, HBK, Foley and those guys, yet he was fairly well past it. He still has tons and tons of great matches under his belt and fans in the know give him his proper respect but he really should've gone down as one of the all time greats. Tony Schiavone said of Windham that as long as he had a pretty girl on his arm and some money in his pocket he was happy, though.
I'd put Danny Spivey in the same category. Always did great work, but never got big title spots.
TheCLB I would agree with this. Can't put my finger on it, but there's always something about Barry that never clicked with me for him to be truly over, with me personally.
I kind of have to say Steamboat is an underachiever. I know he had titles and great matches. However, with his body, charisma, athleticism, and working ability he should have been an all time great on the levels of Shawn, Bret, Flair, Sting, etc. I know he took time off and most of it was for legit reasons like his wife being pregnant. In his DVD they said that he wasn't willing to give it all up to be a huge star. Plus, his family man gimmick hurt him to. He was great, but he was a notch or 2 below the top tier.
I think Steamboat did enough to get on the Hennig, Piper, Anderson level...but one guy who never gets mentioned who like Steamboat but never touched Steamboat's level...Tito Santana
He chose this he was more of a family man that’s what it was plus he listened to his wife
Rickie Steamboat took time off to get married 5X!
Cactus jack was the best overachiever.
Lawler was a great talker.
Hands down Mick might not have looked the part but he had heart and represented the average everyday wrestling fan as for Lawler I agree he was a great talker but he could have kept himself in better shape than he did.
@MemphoWrasslin1 Foley never presented himself as a muscular guy Lawler did.
Mike Awesome was an under achiever. Awesome had everything and his run with WWF was so short it's not worth remembering and his WCW run as That 70s guy was a joke.
Mike Awesome seemed like he was tailor built for WWE and like someone who should've thrived after the attitude era but sadly nothing came of it.
I will agree with jim on tom "megaman" mcgee. He looked amazing and had the look but wwe has his tape with bret and now they have it available for viewing. His match with bret was amazing but only because bret led him by the hand thru out the whole match. Basically planned out everything he and megaman was gunna do and he got him over. Enough vince thought he was the guy, not knowing the other guy in the ring was the real f'ing deal.
Wow,,,,he said Mike Maghee.....That's an archive for real
This is long, so if you don't want to read it....scroll on by, if not I got a couple of stories regarding two underachievers, one about Tom McGee & the other about Al Perez. Tom McGee went to All Japan Pro Wrestling in the mid to late 1980's, after his matches with Bret Hart & Ted Dibiase in the WWF, that he gained buzz from. He had worked with one of the top 20 guys in pro wrestling at the time, Riki Choshu. Choshu also made McGee look great at some instances, but when Tom McGee had to do things without Riki Choshu's help...he flopped. McGee needed to have either worked in the territory days, where he could have worked night in and night out at house shows to develop his in ring skills. Or in today's pro wrestling world, where someone with his look and athleticism would have gotten over in a heartbeat and used somehow. Also, before Brian Last got cut off and it was not brought up again.....Al Perez. Al Perez was a major underachiever. He was great in the dying days of World Class Wrestling Association, due to the tutelage of Gary Hart. And when Gary Hart brought him to WCW with him in 1988, i believe, Perez had a chance to really get over and become a star. Al Perez had a great look, he was a very good worker in the ring, and he had Gary Hart as both his manager in the ring, but outside the ring....and to politic for him in WCW, because Hart had a lot of clout with management in WCW. But Perez screwed himself when he decided that during a match with Ric Flair for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, he was going to go into business for himself and shoot on Flair for the title. Hart found out and told him that even though they were friends that he could not stand by and let Perez do that. Perez refused so Hart had to tell management. Perez was told not to show for the card, and was fired by WCW. And was blackballed ever since.
How bad was "Big John," Jim?
Kanyon,Billy Gunn ,Chuck Palumbo
Del Rios underachiever so was Al Perez
Al Perez was underachieved he was athletic and good worker
If my memory serves me right, wasn't Tom Magee the first choice for what became the Ultimate Warrior gimmick? I do have to say he and Warrior had very similar physical appearances.
you could argue Jake could be on either list
McGee in Bret Hart's autobiography and I remember him saying that Piper chastised him for it as Piper told him as great as he made him look it did nothing for Bret at that point and no would thank him for making McGee look that good
Also, Owen had a tryout the same night, and was overlooked.
Adam Turner I think Piper was wrong. "Bret can have a great match with ANYONE" must have entered Vince's mind at that point.
Fast forward 15 years and Vince needs a safe pair of steroid free hands to steady the ship...
I feel like Bret Hart was an overachiever. He was a great mechanic, but was he really the megastar?
Yes. He was a mega star.
I'd go with Teddy Hart as the underachiever! He's not even a average/big name on the indy scene when he had pretty much everything for him included a wwe contract at one point. As for overachiever, I'd put on the same level a guy who works his ass to get over without the body and a guy who works his ass off to get the body. So all in all i'd go with Ric Flair who had a very long and amazing carreer in spite of being in a plane crash and having serious back damages early in his life.
Funny as Sh**!
Like people who underachieved because of their time in the business. Piper for instance. It can be said he's one that "didn't need" the top. Think if he had been out in the time of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, instead of being in the era of Hogan politics.
Mr Kennedy is one more recent underachiever. He got booted from the WWE because of his botched move on Orton, steriod scandal, and his sheer assholery in the lockeroom. Even though he was a great in the ring and very entertaining and loved the Mr Kennedy character.
Raven overachieved
Bryan Danielson has to arguably be the biggest overachiever in modern wrestling history.
MrMetalover666 over? I think you mean under. Look was not great no, but he was great on the mic and wrestled oh so well.
He was always good in the ring but wasn't always great on the mic (although he ended up being brilliant at the end). He's an overachiever in the sense that he is the absolute opposite of what WWE sees as a big star and the idea that he would of been anything other than an indie darling let alone go over in a WrestleMania main event would have seemed ridiculous just a few years ago. But he got over in such a massive way with the fans and despite push back from WWE themselves he became a star. That's why he's an overachiever.
MrMetalover666 i agree with you. I cannot see what all the fuss was with bryan? Too small and weak looking to look like a credible wrestler, let alone world champ!
Perhaps you didn't understand the question and this is why James Fitzgerald is 100% correct. Guys who all the ability and didn't make it or guys who didn't have any abilities and did. Then you say he had ability...ummmm is this the twilight zone or did you not listen to the question?
I agree. He was already top tier as a wrestler when he arrived. After losing at Wrestlemania in 8 seconds he turned what most would treat as a derailment of a career into a career renaissance. He worked on every facet of his character constantly. His psychology which was already sublime still managed to improve. He was not what I would consider a great talker, but he became one of the best. I never saw Daniel Bryan give what I would think of as less than his best. I cannot believe that I am about to say this, but I am going to mention Batista. I never saw Batista as being lazy, but he was not what I saw as an over achiever. Then I saw the way he took bumps for Daniel Bryan and did everything in his power to make that match work. One can argue about wrestlers needing or asking to be carried to a passable match, but I never saw Daniel Bryan or Batista ask or need to be carried. edit: Yes, by Daniel Bryan I mean Bryan Danielson. It's just a force of habit at this point.
Doug Gilbert is a guy who severely underachieved. I mean people talk about Eddie. But it seems like people have forgotten about Doug.
Getting Injured in the Car Accident in 83-84 During a Stint in the WWF Has as Much to Do with Eddie's Limitations in the Business as Anything Else
Bill Dundee overachiever
I thought kevin kelly who later became nailz when he was in awa might be groomed to be champion but he had very short run there.
Rhyno under achieving guy
Underachievers... NWA wrestling
Overachievers.... NWA rap group.
jake roberts
Nick R as?
what about john Tatum, and mike rotundo
McGhee Was a Noted Bodybuilder & Power-Lifter with Some Gymnastics & Martial Arts Skills ... Probably Not Passionate About the Wrestling Business or Not Having the Mindset or Charisma Hurt Him ...
id like to hear cornette's thought of when chad wicks and tank toland became the dicks in wwe that gimmick was dead on arrival.
hahaha jim cornette listening to stp
Sean O'Haire.
Magee was good but not the Ultimate Warrior he pranced around the mat too much...
Tommy Rich may be the number 1 overachiever
Nell Bowie. - Scoring Missy Hyatt was an overachievemt for him.
Bob Rouse I'm talking about Tommy Rich not Eddie Gilbert
🎾🤓
Russ McCaullaugh is 7 foot tall...and you can't...teach...that!
Tom Magee was a genetic freak .... But so was Giant Gonzalez .....
Please don't bring up the original Great Khali (Giant Gonzalez).
i have watched the very few Tom Magee clips and matches i can find recently, the comments always say he was a terrible wrestler but as far as i can tell "no expert" he seemed fine. he had a great physique and was very nimble and athletic. but as far as i can tell in matches and interviews old and pretty new the guy has zero personality or charisma and not enough to sell when in the ring. also his face sort of didnt match his body, almost a weirdly sort of effeminate and slight looking facial structure.
well, us millennials dont understand the value of body hair in the late 1970s.
Biggest underachiever in the industry? yours Truly, 3 failed attempts and one good run like the midnight rider of managers who bump! LMAO! thank You, go to PAPW TV and CenterRing316
Who?