It's not the "ability" to go online that's a negative, it's the fact that it's required to enjoy a single player experience. So when they decide to shut down the servers the game is gone.
As always, this behavior is unacceptable, but if asked I'm sure it can be explained away with some nonsense about the licensing deals mandating they close off access to the game after they all expire
@@superninja252 Because it worked so well when GT7 went offline for several days during a patch (to nerf credit grinding) There's no need for the SP to be online at all.
What I hate is the fact these new games never start you off with bad cars. Seems like all these games just throw at you crazy fast Cars straight away. I love the feeling of progression with the older games. Good example old GT games and the old Motorsports games
yep, id like to go the iracing route where we have to start with miatas, geos, pintos, or some other shit car and then move on to like stock civics, then modded cars and get a liscense through each. So much better that way imo.
Forza 4 comes to mind. Your actual first car in that is something along the lines of a Toyota Aygo or a Ford Ka. There were more options than that, but it was those types of cars you were limited to for your first car.
Event structure plays a big part of it. What made traditional Gran Turismo careers so fun is that you had many events tailored to slower cars. K-Car series, Miata/Roadster endurances, Production car only races, one-make races (Remember GT4's Diahtsu Midget race?), historic car cups, low-end rally events with 200 or 300 HP restrictions, Sunday and Clubman cups, compact/hatchback cups, the list goes on and on. Even if you imported your 100k credits into GT4 and started out with a monster 500 HP tuned JDM or whatever, there were so many races that would make you take a step back into the slower machines and push them to the limit.
I feel the same. I wanted a real career mode. Like zero to hero mode. Start with low level series. Win money. Get sponsored. Use money to fix car damage. Build up a race team. Basically a race championship with calendar years seasons etc. But nope we getting car xp that unlocks parts. With races that don't matter from one to the next
Playground games did the "design the progression yourself" angle with fh5. Do some races, gain a "sticker" unlock whatever part of the game you want. Sounds great on paper but it's taking away from the designers giving you a well rounded experience and a path to follow, something to work towards, like this you could do the final showcase races immediatelly, which would be something you'd work hours for previously. Not a horrible thing, just kind of strange. Either way I am looking forward to FM2023, its been far too long since I had access to a proper racer with some singleplayer progression. My last console was the PS2 so GT4 was the final game of this sort I played. GT7 PC is probably not happening so this is the only one, I'll play it no matter what. Hope it's enjoyable.
That's exactly my problem with these games currently. There's just no direction to take and it makes everything feel like a chore. The wristband in FH1 worked so much better than having the ability to do almost whatever I want at any given time.
Yeah honestly I prefer the wristband experience more, but I guess that comes more to the execution rather than the idea, FH5's "design the progression yourself" angle could work if they balance out how many accolades does it need to, how long will it take, what makes the decisions so different and apart from each other. If they can nail that angle, improve on their ideas, from the past and from the present, we could get a great game in our hands
Same thing with the assists, tire wear and damage. Its not going to encourage people to play with those things enabled and realize how much more they add to the racing experience.
@@fifteen8850 Depends on the assists in question and what game. That's not the point is was trying to make anyway. The point is that a lot more depth is added to the gameplay with assists off.
One of the ways that they could handle the car XP/upgrade system a little more efficiently is by tying to the progression to an entire manufacturer instead of an individual car. This makes narrative sense because of the general interoperability within a manufacturer's product stack. It also reflects brand loyalty and discounts, especially when talking about access to crate engines and the know-how to swap drivetrains, across an entire product stack within a manufacturer's stable, let alone between unrelated automakers. It could even be more in-depth. Considering that major tuners tend to focus on a single or a handful of brands (and major ones that are now in-house started off an independent entities, most notably AMG for Mercedes-Benz, Alpina for BMW, Shelby for Ford, and so forth), you could choose to have a specific tuner or set of tuners be a sponsor, and you increase your xp with them in order to unlock access to the requisite parts across the entire product stack for that manufacturer or group of manufacturers. While I personally don't mind the new XP/Upgrade system, I can certainly see how it could get a bit annoying if you've been leveling a car for a long-time, only to then realize that it's incompatible with a large number of later races due to being in the wrong class. Personally, the ideal mix would be having this system for XP/Upgrades, but utilize Gran Turismo's longstanding system (peaking back in GT4) for determining what class(es) each car fits into on a race-series by race-series basis. Forza has gotten to be a bit too narrow, and if I want to take a car I really like (lets say a "91 NSX or an '03 G35 coupe), upgrade and tune it, and have it compete against out-of-the-dealership supercars and hypercars, I want that to be an option. Instead of limiting them to these stringent and narrow classes, have more series that limit them by HP levels, or drivetrain, or decade, or county of origin. If we're going to be racing some of these individual cars for hours to reach max level, there has to be enough variety in the cars and tracks we contend with to keep things interesting. Simply upping the difficulty or turning off certain driver aids isn't sufficient anymore. Nonetheless, I'm still excited about the game, and as I can't justify dropping $500 on a PS5 just for Gran Turismo (especially when I have a good gaming computer at my desk), this will be my sim racer of choice for the next few years.
Any GT fan thinking of checking out Forza for the career mode should be excited that in the last game, you could change the length of almost every career race! (It was preset though, something like 2--5, 10-20 or 20-50)
Been looking forward to seeing your opinion on this. The nature of progression is to make certain content less accessible, which is always going to be controversial. I really like what they're doing though, it looks to be a massive improvement over the mess that was 5, 6, and 7 and the last thing I expected after all their marketing was focusing on casual selling points like visuals.
@@superninja252 as I understand it, any mode that is connected to progression will be always online. Free play won't be online so I assume you can't progress in that mode, though I've heard people say otherwise so I might have missed something
@@existentialselkath1264That's still a huge ripoff. The "progression", aka the actual "CaRPG" part, is the part that makes new racing games actually worth buying. GT/Forza ARE their careers, that's the primary selling point, that's the part you actually buy. If it doesn't have that offline, you don't own the full game, you own a $70 demo. This was the exact same problem I had with GT Sport and GT7. 😠
Same. Forzas last insistence on starting midfield and requiring a win has encouraged dirty driving and lacklustre AI. I'm gunna start 4th, set the AI as hard as I can handle, and try to get first. Even a podium seems enough to progress so it's the perfect risk/reward/fun balance for me
@@purwantiallan5089 when you're encouraged to always finish on the podium (which is still much better than having to finish first), starting last encourages dirty driving against AI, especially with limited laps. You also don't really race anyone, the other cars are just roadblocks to get stuck behind or speed past. Its a fun challenge for sure, I love the option, but it's rarer to see really close racing against AI so I'm looking forward to that more.
@@firefaceguy6479 people have been asking for qualifying for multiplayer. There's no point in singleplayer. Your starting position is entirely arbitrary and dependant on how difficult you set the AI to be
Also speedruns are consistent. Only played a little bit of GT4 but from the looks of challange runs there's only really randomness to opponents but it's still very replayable due to lots of available routes
I feel that the car xp thing could be improved a bit by having Brand Bonus. If you have X cars (max level, idk) of the same brand, all cars of that brand gain X% bonus xp
Older Forza titles had something similar, specifically Motorsport 2. By choosing your region when you start the game, your driver level would both unlock price discounts for buying all cars from that region, and unlock cars from that region (North American, European, or Asian were your 3 options). Your car level would provide discounts for part brands, which either only affected one brand, or multiple brands (HKS, Hooker, MOPAR, etc.) It already existed before, and what they're doing now is just a watered-down repaint.
@uberschnilthegreat22 FM8's system works quite differently though. Theres a new "currency" which you adquire by driving a car, which you *need* to use to unlock and buy parts *for that specific car*
They jump around with cars because that’s how it is in real life, you get drives and get to hit different tracks in different cars. I like the model, as you get better you get to drive slower stuff more on the edge. I hate when you get closer to the end and it’s just all over powered race cars. I like them but not every race, that feels repetitive.
I like the weather system and I think they did it right from what we're seeing. I think it's perfectly fine to have fully randomized weather conditions in multiplayer races, but when there's an online leaderboard involved like in career races/time trials/etc then I think it should be the same conditions for every player. Only time will tell if that is what they're truly going with but I like the direction.
The tuning parts being locked behind a car level grind... per car.... is probably my biggest worry. This game will not surpass FM4 on that alone. The only real limit should be credits. As you said for some GT7 features @Roflwaffle it's "Pointlessly restrictive", especially in the long run.
I mean I think a lot of people are miss understanding it, the car parts are permanently unlocked once you have unlocked them, and car points are totally refundable so if you made a top speed build but now want to make a drift build then refund the car points, I like this because it’s got way better sense of progression and gives you reasons to spend time with all your cars, in forza horizon and the last 3 motorsports games 70% of the cars I’ve not spent more than a single race with them let alone anything else, this way you appreciate the car and take time making it look nice
I thought GT7 was dumb for only handing them out after a certain point in the game it makes GT5' limited levels use look like masterpiece. With only levels used sparingly. But got to have levels and RPG systems when something like Alfa Romeo Racing Italiano used it's RPG elements not for levels that way but points to into optional benefits not level gating but whatever Devs got to follow the industry and watde players time with garbage design then actually useful ones and doing something new not progression that's too hindering. They do realise people make content on flexible games right? Unless playing the game the first time and never again because you can't do much else with it. Especially servers and killing its life span. CP points sure fine enough other games do other currencies but level gating is dumb. Besides I never use upgrades 99% of the time in the series because the cars are auto tuned by the Devs (besides I play on normal) in many cases or unless on hard difficulty where you would need them or just be a better skilled driver of course with whatever AI that hasn't changed. You never need them while GT never had difficulty settings so you needed upgrades.
@@pedrovictor4256 this game has absolutely no microtransactions and no monetization besides a car pass. You can't buy credits or points. That was stated point blank
Forza Motorsport's always online connection for the career mode is a deal breaker for me, I had my ISP internet shut off like 6+ times in 2023 with no internet access, so it does happen from time to time where you can't play online games.
Looking forward to this game. I like the idea of car xp and car progression. I wish they had adjustable TCS and ABS. I have been playing GT7 since launch and definitely want something new to play.
It's really interesting as 13 year old me tuned everything, messed with all the settings. Much older me prefers to challenge myself (sic) with the default ones these days. Age, experience, wisdom and shocking AI make that sort of moot but I rarely tune cars past just liveries :)
The moment i learned that Forza 8 is going to have a forced internet connection, the game died for me. No one should support blackmailing. No one should cause, by supporting it, to let the cancer spread any further. It's interesting to see that mostly oldschool gamers have their thinking caps on and are voting with their wallets by not buying it.
Car xp system gives reason to the rhym in my opinion. They could expand on test drives with tuned up versions of the cars to try out.would add a little slice of fun for free to break up the monotony.
One glaring issue (could be fixed later, but if implemented is a bust): forza playersare used to have copies of cars with different setups. Car xp system at least now is tied to specific car, so to tune copy of the car, you need to grind it too
Forza Motorsports 7 just had an update around the same time they presented the key features of the upcoming title. The update has modified the difficulty, I am quite good at playing Forza I'm usually in the top 1-3%. I realised that on unbeatable difficulty the drivers actually race like the people around the leader boards time that I place on the track that I'm on, before it would be people from my friends list or those of a similar driver level. It is tough!!! It feels like I'm racing against myself (which is not easy) Before the update I was easily beating the A.I by 3 seconds or more on each lap now I can barely get 1 sec ahead of pack, barely place 5th let alone get close to 3rd. By the time I worked my way up the pack starting from 12th position the race is almost over. So much time is wasted fighting against the A.I. I dont like racing dirty but it's like the system wants to incentivise you to do so, if you race too clean you will never get ahead in a timely manner in order to win the race. And really can't afford to make any mistakes, you have to be consistent!!! Small mistakes are costly and I'm taking about .300 to 1.0 second increase in lap times. As you progress in getting faster times one particular A.I is also doing the same, like I said its almost like racing yourself. And that A.I at least in my case was using the same car as me, ( Which is just a coincidence, considering that those I placed best times with on the leader board also used the same vehicle) I don't want to say that I hope that the A.I isn't as difficult in the up coming title but how can I improve as a driver if I'm not challenging myself. The game really knows how to challenge the player in helping them become better at the sport. I might have just peaked my skill and abilities with my current setup using a controller. I know that with a steering wheel and proper set up I can shave at least 2 to 3 seconds off my best times. But just because I'm faster during that race doesn't mean the next race will be any easier 😅. You can't win them all unless you're number 1 and even then you'll probably be racing a simulated version of yourself 😅.
About the Always Online, it is better than the GT7 one that limits you to play a boring mode of time attack with music Chris said that will let you play all other non-carreer modes, specially free play where ALL cars and tracks will be unlocked for you to play, similar to GT4´s Arcade Mode i dont like it but at least, wont limit you to a boring mode, at least will let you play with the car+track combo you want, besides career mode will be locked
Small correction: When offline in GT7 you can not only play "Music Rally", but also Time Trial, Drift Trial and Arcade Races on all Tracks with whichever cars you have in your garage. Sucks, but sounds more similar to what Forza will offer.
I dont think you can save your progress if your offline.Its not a drama for me personally,by the time they shut down the servers i will have moved on to something else,prob FM9.👍
Personally I feel the "design your own game" aspect is a good practical choice whereby they can appeal and make it accessible to more people outside the sim-cade racing community, possibly banking in on some buys and playtime from the new horizon community since they've launched on steam. All the while it doesnt take away from the experience from someone like me as I can choose to make things just hard enough for a rewarding experience, and the endgame becomes to push my own limits further. I personally dont need the introduction into these games now, but I know I would've appreciated it when I was new to these. The car xp progression system looks great for me personally, as of recently I have started tuning cars myself (I'm not good at it) and so the idea to chop and change things without cost to see what works with practice laps included into the campaign is great for me. Practice laps itself is a great addition for me as in motorsport 7 it took me the first 1 or 2 laps to get used to the car and track (I increase race length to medium) What I am sceptical about is the AI as they took a really drastic step backwards in horizon 5 for no apparent reason. I'm glad they mention it but I will wait and see before I buy. I'm not much of an online racer, I prefer to avoid it, but it will be interesting to see how the penalty and driver rating systems are implemented, as I am of the belief that race stewarding cannot be a deterministic computer code, it has to be judged on a case by case basis, otherwise ways to game the system arise as is very evident in gt7.
The game looks fun. The CARPG aspect gets me really excited vs the horrendous microtransactions in GT7. At least the Forza developers respect me as a consumer and arent trying to take my money at every opportunity like GT7. Im super excited for this game. Cant wait to sink in hours learning and upgrading my favorite cars
lol Youre overexaggerating. GT7 isnt predatory with its MTX, its nowhere near it. But you havent played the game cause youre a Xbox dickrider spreading BS.
I haven’t used a single microtransaction in GT7, and I have nearly every car in the game. You sad children just want too much instant gratification, and don’t want to invest the necessary time and patience to achieve anything. You want easy handouts, like a whiny little toddler? Stay in Forza Special Education where you belong…
game over the years have gotten less and less linear, with emphasis on open world systems and user control over the exerpience and it was in general a huge improvement. But now we have reached the point where you risk losing an identity. I prefer a more linear experience with clear objectives that I can't just adjust past by just changing a setting. When you try to appeal to everyone you can end up appealing to know one.
To get more into the points mentioned in the video: Having the requirement to do some work with a car to improve it instead of just buying all the upgrades right away sounds good to build some attachment. Although it depends on how it plays out. I don't like using my vehicles stock and if they make me race a halfway done build, they better offer me something worthwhile to do with it. Also I hope this is really to benefit the player and not to make the game lesser than its predecessors again to fix that problem with microtransactions. That already happened in FM7 with difficulty settings and people were not impressed. Overall I like the old difficulty and payout scaling system. Biggest problem was when putting the settings up too far, but it helped me push my skills further. And in general it's only a huge difference when you compare a pro who goes to the hardest settings compared to someone who uses all assists. You'll quickly get into getting a decent bonus each race with some middle of the road settings. But again they are screwing with this system for no apparent reason by batching up the settings. It's clearly not necessary and I don't see a good reason for it. Also FM7 had some multiclass stuff. You could set it up yourself in Free Play (best mode in 7 by *far* ) with 4 subclasses either being scored independently or as a whole. It worked, but cars wouldn't make space for faster divisions and those could get stuck behind the slower vehicles possbily for an entire lap even. The fast cars drove up so close and just tailgated that they could barely get past.
For the car level up system; it would be nice to see the level not just cap at 50 but will keep going. May not earn much more afterwards but that will still give purpose to drive the car and show how much experience you have with it
Honestly I'd be fine with just a cosmetic level. The upgrades may stop, but imagine seeing someone who drove a car to the point it was level 100. you know they know that car well. A thing I noticed, in GT7, is the collector level maxed out at 50 as well but you still had plenty to collect. Granted this is as someone that doesn't have a playstation so I can't play it. It'd also be really cool if you DID see someone's car level if you were online or something, flex your time with the car or something.
Thanks for speaking about the UI, most people just shrug it off as something no one cares about. These games do not need to look like bland mobile games, especially when they have had strong visual identities before, they don't even have an excuse that it's all for functionality's sake when Horizon 4 and 5 are complete messes when it comes to menus. GTR2 two decades ago had more personality and functionality than most racing games in recent memory. Also please play earlier Horizon titles if possible. Horizon 4 and 5 are far from the greatness they achieved before and I can assure you won't feel like you missed out on FOMO-driven content.
I think you're right. in all my forza games i do the same thing mid game, max out a car right after buying it drive it once and forget about it. I'm def looking forward to this design idea, I think it will be well reminiscent of the early gt 1 2 and 3s and early forzas where money was much harder to come by and you had to progress in that way anyhow. way to much focus on the instant gratification in games these days, its like these devs are scared everyone will get bored and quit if its too hard, but ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy because its too easy and people lose interest.
I must say, I deeply despise Forza Motorsport’s career mode being always online. Some of my best memories are being on a road trip and being able to play Forza Motorsport 7’s career mode offline. I know Motorsport 7 wasn’t the best game, but I quite enjoyed it.
@user-yx4pc9oz5t that’s actually very different. Free play takes effort to set up races and cool events. Think about how I said I played the career in Motorsport 7 and think about the fact that I did not say free play. The experience between the two is very different. In addition, I see no stipulation saying that I need to be online for new tracks to be added. To download the track in the update initially obviously, but otherwise no. The easy example is that you could use DLC cars offline in any previous Forza game so that should be a non issue. That’s the part that frustrates me. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a foolish Forza fanboy and pre-ordered the game but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna look past potential design flaws. Also, sorry, I know this is a rather long response.
The whole difficulty and rewards payout criticism is just stupid. You get rewarded for driving better and getting better. Something Forza as a whole needs thanks to rammers. Also you're getting the freedom to play the game how you want so i don't understand why it's a problem. Lastly, if we didn't have the whole choose your difficulty system, what would we have then? Like if there's no valid criticisms beyond ones that we have heard before, only to get it and then complain that it's too easy, then challenge shouldn't be a talking point to begin with.
My history in racing games looks like this GT- 3 4 forza 1 2 3 4 7 and horizon 1 also I was an X-Box boi I played 7 so much even thought its trash. so was horizon I think Forza blends the line of sim / arcade better than GT......but I do have a lot of missing content I really want Forza MS--8 to be good. I have high hopes
I HATE the car leveling system it is DUMB! Want people to drive their car more GIVE THEM MORE RACES TO DRIVE IT IN!!! AALSO they lied there is NO way you will get to LVL 50 in 2-3 hours of driving. I am playing it NOW and I say it will take at least 5-6 hours. The worst part is there is NO REAL REASON to drive most of the cars that long! FIRST the opponents all increase performance when you do so upgrades are ALMOST pointless you can win without them when the whole field level matches to you. SECOND EVERY event seems very exclusive so once you win in it with about 1 hour of driving at most, then the next event will need a COMPLETELY new car STOPPING you from using the car you were leveling, then after that for the next event you will need a 3rd car so you will spend the WHOLE campaign Driving ALMOST BONE STOCK cars and afterward having PILES of lightly upgraded cars that have no use in the campaign that you need to drive the at same ONE or TWO events for another 4-5 hours to make PROPERLY good and for what ,Multiplayer? NOBODY is gonna spend 5 hours grinding just then to be able to START tuning the car in earnest just to see if maybe a car is competitive in multiplayer, everyone will just wait for Strat guides to tell them what to pick and not waste their LIFE. If SOMEBODY would just make a game like GT 1,2,3 or 4 where you start poor buy a old car start to upgrade it with small amounts of money won from races until you MAX it out to where it is almost undriveable, because it has way more power than the chasis can handle. Then have the cars in the next series still be too fast and then you need to invest in a new faster car to compete with the rise of stronger opponents, and not give you hyper cars EVERY TEN SECONDS or make you grind useless cars for 5-6 hours just to be able to start tuning them for real after that it is NO FUN. It seems every dev has forgotten that GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN even grinding can be fun when done right But THIS AINT IT. When I played the older GT games I used to put a self imposed restriction on the money I spent upgrading a new car. Once I bought the car with my cash reserves, the only money I would spend improving it would come from racing that specific car and winning, and since there were SO MANY open events you could enter DOZENS of events with that car almost feeling like you were playing a fresh Campaign with a new starter car. That was SUCH an ENJOYABLE experience I wish that gameplay loop would return it made me fall in love with the strangest cars like the Nissan Bluebird in GT6. I HATE the Honda Fit and I hate FF cars in GT (they feel better in Project cars) so the first thing I did was sell the fit (before racing it) and buy an FR car and the only two I could afford was the Midget or the Bluebird so you know what I picked. Even though it was old and weak It FOUGHT HARD and brought me Victory after Victory against cars it had NO BUSINESS racing against and I slowly fell in love with this goofy little Japanese car I never heard of from the 70's with a rubber band engine and the soul of a Race car inside it that SAVED me from the Honda Fit and made it possible for me to not HATE GT6
Tbh I played all Forza Motorsports since 2 and I must admit that since 4 it's pretty much the same game with better graphics every single time. There's been some quality of life here and there of course, but seeing the new trailers and listening to them going "built from the ground up" over and over (as they did previous games as well) does not attract me any longer. I just now learnt this new game's gonna be Always online for single player as well, just like GT7. We all know why Poliphony did it in the end, and "cheaters in online races" were clearly the least of their concerns. I'm not even at the fence any longer. I just want a good career-focused racing game, not a car collection simulator which also happens to let you race. Don't call me a "hater". I'd say I'm more someone that is somewhat waiting for a return to a driving game that focuses on its user's fun, rather than "engagement". Which are two different things.
My issue with the car XP is a fact that it's literally per car. So if I want a 2022 mustang built for drifting and one built for drag racing after go through that 2-hour process for each car
Thinking about the carpg system, it reminds me of Enthusia, a PS2 gem of a game I adore to this day. It was after the race and such when you got the points, but collisions, overtaking others, and such would award points on the car. It had ten tuning levels, where the weight would reduce, the tires may be better ones. Etc. In fact it even had audible impacts on your car when your engine or internals got better. It was very basic, being an older game, but leveling cars to ten felt so rewarding. If this game is indeed fun, I wouldn't be against leveling as many cars to 50 as I could, if not all of them. I didn't get to play basically any gran turismo, or any forza, so this would be my first foray into things. But after hearing about GT7...and its everything, I am a bit excited, partially just because I can play the game. As for always online, honestly that's not as huge a deal as it seems. I mean I understand if someone has a spotty connection, then yes it's bad and I'm sorry they have to go through that...but think about how much online gaming people do. It's to the point that games just outright focus on pvp, or various player interacting modes and ignore the campaigns. By the time the game's servers shutdown, say they don't patch for offline use after, we all know we'd move on to the next thing, if not just "I had my fill, I'm good". Would I be sad I can't play a game if the servers go down? Yeah, I've had it happen before, but I would at least remember the fun times I had.
It's stated that leveling a car will take 2-3 hours. The base game has over 500 cars. Leveling them all up would take 1500 hours (minimum estimate) This system is awful IMHO. The time commitment needed is absolutely unfathomable for 99.9% of players ever if not absolutely every player if the game is lackluster or lacking content. It also ruins the drip feed of weekly car unlocks. How many weeks do you think you can stand driving a car 2-3 hours before you can drive it the way you want? People are vastly underestimating the time sink this system implies. It's brutal tbh.
@@trautsj Oh I know, and get it. but I still would, because...well I just want to. Even if I had work and all, I probably still would because I just want to be that weirdo.
@@trautsjif you played any other game, like modern cod games, you’d realize that that time length is basically the norm. Besides not everyone wants all of cars the game offers
I'm cautiously optimistic about the overall direction, but I'm pretty concerned about whether they can get the specifics right. I skipped FM5, but FM6 and 7 feel really, really sloppy about the event design and structure at times (seriously look up the initial event/car choice after the intro in FM7 if you don't know how absurd it is). I'm also really bored of the way all the previous gen Forzas just split cars neatly into categories and then use those as the only way to do car restrictions (outside the Horizon live service championships). I understand it's more realistic to always have similar cars racing each other, but part of the appeal of these games with giant car rosters is getting to see them in different contexts. Old GT and Forza made picking cars for different events so much more engaging because each car wasn't just one thing and only that thing. You'd think especially if we're supposed to grow attached to cars as we level them that we'd want decade/country/drivetrain/etc. events to take them somewhere other than a one-off series for a bunch of similar cars.
@@jcaashby3you can do that in free play because let's say you just want to just go and do all the races in the dry at 8 in the morning, you'll learn to just play one set of conditions. When you get to online, you'll then get bombarded with different scenarios and so on and just end up frustrated with the game and blame it for your own mistakes. This way is far better and prefer a single player where we're getting multiple scenarios to deal with to keep it fresh and interesting.
At the very least it looks like turn10 are trying to make a fun and engaging racing game and not a pretentious car collecting gacha game like Kaz and the team at PD
I was looking forward to Forza Motorsport until they revealed that you need an active internet connection just to even play the SINGLEPLAYER career mode. This is what put me off of GT Sport and GT7
I'm not thrilled about it either, however I have PC Gamepass so everything I play on there has to be always online anyways. Since I'll have it day one on Gamepass I'll be playing there.
@@jamespingel8730 gamepass pc is always online? I'm gunna have to check that. My pc is rarely disconnected so I wouldn't have noticed but I didn't think that was the case.
@@existentialselkath1264 I haven't tried playing gamepass offline, but every time I launch anything for the first time I have to give it permission to access my profile and every time I launch it afterwards it syncs up with MS servers before launching. I'd be very surprised if I can play those games offline, but for all I get to play for $10 month it's a trade I'm willing to make.
I have a feeling that the requirement for a constant internet connection may be linked with the machine learning of the AI. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, where Forza is constantly exchanging AI data with an Azure cloud server. MFS 2020 constantly has world data streamed to it, in real time, as you play. Of course the reason for this is that according to asobo, the entire size of MFS2020, server and client, is measured in petabytes. Obviously, that is too large to even be remotely reasonable for someone to install on their computer, hence why they turned to the cloud as a solution, but I wouldn't be surprised if AI in Forza Motorsport uses the same kind of solution to solve for the intensive process of active Machine Learning
I think the car xp is a good idea, but, once you get to the max level it would be great if the xp after this could be shared with other cars or turned into credits you can use to buy other cars, parts etc. This way you can keep using your shortlist of favourite cars and still earn something useful post the max level. You could even have the xp after max level be earned at a lower rate so leveling up a car from zero will be faster, but that way you have some choice.
I think that car levelling may end up as more limiting then standard "monetary" system (like the one in previous FMs and GTs). The biggest issue is that, you need to drive for seemingly long time just to make car viable in later, higher class events. For example if they have a late German Sports Cupe series, up until that point you were driving let's say BMW M3. Now you want to mix it up a little, so you buy Mercedes C-klasse AMG, and whoops now it may illegible for that event, so you have to grind levels. Compare that to "standard" progression - You have German Sports Cupe series, got bored of BMW M2, so you buy Merc C-klasse, it's illegible, you buy few upgrades and you're free to race. That was the biggest strength of FM over GT - thanks to fairly open upgrades, you could take one of the starter cars, upgrade it and race on equal footing with R3 class cars (FM4 as example).
One saving grace of always online is getting updates that can adjust elements like the carpg system or difficulty bonus. T10 aren't great but they're at least marginally better than PD at fixing issues brought up by the community
I went back to check out forza motorsport 4, since people speak so well of that game and I had no previous experience with the series, to see how good it was. I was fully underwhelmed by it. There's no custom races. No fuel. No Tire wear. There's the endurance cars but no option to go onto an endurance race. Then every starting event is a 3 to 5 minutes race that doesn't even let you learn the track before it's over. The game has both driver and manufacturer levels. The manufacturers levels I find it an interesting idea, the more you race with that brand, more and more discounts you get on upgrades. Now the driver level I found it frustrating, because it both locks you out of events but also gives you a new car every single level and it's too easy to level up, completely ruining the idea of a carrer mode. "Oh yes, we know you finish last that race, but you leveled up so here's a free Lancer". I hope the new forza motorsport doesn't follow this model.
What you cant forget is FM3 and 4 were released for Xbox 360 hardware, only 1 game, that I know of, could get any form of realistic tyre wear and fuel, that being the F1 games by codemasters and ignoring that, the primary pull, for me at least, for those 2 games were the "do any race in whatever car you want" aspect, yeah some stuff required certain races/championships at certain tracks but by and large, you could do any race in any car
Pretty interesting. I personally love Forza Motorsport 4 and its progression system and I went to check out Gran Turismo 4 recently, since people say it's the best game in that series and handles progression well. It disappointed me. Abysmal car reward system upon completing a championship which often hands out high value cars which you can sell out of nowhere or completely useless concept cars- I much prefer Forza Motorsport 4's driver levels which assign a value of 0 to the cars you obtain and actually gives you a choice. The game also sounds like a broken blender. I'd hardly call the physics good. Every single car feels like it's on ice. There's no interior view because it's old, but that doesn't bother me much. The angle of the chase cam does though. It's stiff and neuters just about every feeling of driving there is. License tests are annoying, simply put. In the original Forza Motorsport, Turn 10 specifically wanted to have no license tests because they detracted from the experience. People already good at driving don't need them and more casual players don't want them. It's a better test to just throw your players directly onto the track. I never want to see Forza Motorsport turn into a Gran Turismo game. I still maintain the best progression done in a simcade racer of this style is Forza Motorsport 4- it's not without its flaws, but it's the best baseline and I still have more fun playing it than any other game of its kind.
I think we can all agree nostoligia plagues a lot of peoples minds. Something we grew up with always be better in our heads. I replayed some ps2 games I remember being fire and they were absolutely trash. FM4/GT4 are held high because of nostoligia. Games today play so much better even if progress isn't up to par to these people. Currently playing FH2, the "holygrail of FH" for fanboys and this championship progression system is not great all. I honestly much rather prefer the freedom of FH3-FH5. I played FH2 after FH3/FH4. No nostoligia to blind me.
@@PaneledPear Well, Forza is right to add a value of 0 to a car given by level up, because that's the value it has when you did nothing to deserve it. I agree that some car rewards in GT4 are a over the top for some lower championships, but if you did had to do something to get them and if you don't want the car you can sell it for money and open up more options to play. I don't mind the liscence system because it serves it purpose of teaching people the basic and advanced players can breeze through it. You also only need to make it once. The phisics of GT4 weren't the best, but that was the PS2 era of racing games. It was as good as you could get there. The best thing isn't to give the players random new cars for nothing. Give them credits in a reasonable rate so they can choose and earn new cars.
@@Left4Coragem Selling the car for money is the entire problem with GT4's progression imo. It can often turn progression into just doing the same championship over and over again for best results. That feels far more unearned than FM4's driver level rewards which stop giving cars after 50. The thing with the car rewards is they go very well with World Tour mode. Often you'll get a car and can start using it immediately after you get it, so they're not given pointlessly. It makes the game incredible to play from a fresh save, imo. A bit later on when you want more expensive cars, the best way to earn money isn't even directly from race rewards- it's the affinity level system combined with driver levels after 50. You get huge credit bonuses which take a fair amount of time to earn. I love the affinity system. Level 4 to get a 100% discount on all of your upgrades is easy to achieve and great for the early game grind. There's also this interesting mechanic with affinity levels where after level 21, the next levels are actually shorter (still pretty long at 50k xp required) while the reward value continues to go up every few levels. It encourages you to get past that affinity level on multiple manufacturers and makes you consider your car choice if you want the most credits. Heck, the affinity system even makes you consider which car you want to pick from a level up reward. "Should I pick the Ford stock car or the Chevy stock car? Both are identical in performance." Stuff like that is pretty cool.
I am very excited about this. The progression seems incredible! I'm so happy they removed the homologation bull from the last one! hope it takes it back to the greatness of 3 and 4
The CaRPG idea sounds nice as a concept, but it's going to get REALLY annoying later on in the game when you want to try new competent cars -- except you can't, gotta grind some races first! Getting to learn the car is entirely pointless like this too since once the car gets fully modded it's essentially an entirely different car and almost nothing you learned about it applies anymore. This concept would work much better if it was category specific rather than individual car specific. That way you can keep trying new cars, but not feel like you have to start from scratch every time. For instance you'd have experience for different tire types, engine types, chassis types and so forth and you gain xp either through activity, like changing tires would give a lot of xp to tires and just driving hatchbacks would give hatchback xp and driving with certain engine sizes would give xp in those engine categories and so forth. Also any excuse about having to be only for anti-cheat purposes is just BS. It's for DRM purposes, anti-cheat functionality comes as a secondary thought.
For me it seems like they took few things from other games. Career progression is lake that in Real Racing 3 (it's mobile game, but resemblace is huge). The "must do" practice is "taken" from F1. Car exp and leveling is similar to the games like World of Tanks etc. The last one can be problematic, as there'll be (over) 500 cars at start. 500 x 2hrs to 3hrs = 1000hrs to 1500hrs to play, just to get max lvls on the initial cars. IMO they should add something like "free exp" earned alongside with normal exp (mb 10% of original score) that can be spent on any other car. This can also rebound as players will be able to max new cars in future minute after buying, using that "free exp" thay acumulated by just playing.
I think a qualifying feature would have enhanced more progression. The Practice Mode is welcome new change. But, why not also have qualifying. Also, why aren’t there any animated pit stops? Why is it there prioritize graphics that they forget the most important components of Motorsport Racing. Also, the Gamescom Footage won over my heart toward the game too. I think it’s six events, per Tour in the Career Mode. The RPG Element is another welcoming change and I truly think that with Rally and Motorcycles added in the near future will make the experience de worth while. Until then, I’d say pre-order it and enjoy it. If this was two months ago, I’d say the opposite.
Please dont use forza horizon to base your opinions on forza motorsport. Horizon and motorsport are developed by 2 completely different studios in 2 different continents.
I am aware. My point is that Forza as an overall franchise will have certain expectations, regardless of if it's Motorsport or Horizon. There will be an amount of people coming from Horizon over to Motorsport, given that it's Microsoft's premier racing title, some of which may have never even played a previous Motorsport game. Some decisions are likely to be influenced by this but it's also interesting to compare and contrast the two, such as with FM's car XP system which will lead to a completely different style of play from FH.
There is no difficulty rating in real racing, its all about your ability to drive. For instance no real GT3 level driver would drive WITHOUT all assists ON. No real race driver is going to drive 200 mph with assists off. Its all about setting yourself up properly on the chassis dyno. Adjustments and skill.
My personal opinion is that I don't mind the 'caRPG' aspect, though there is one thing that will annoy me. It's having to level up ANOTHER car if you want to have a duplicate of the Z for example, where you have one for racing S and one for racing in A. You'd have to level both of them up individually. That's what I don't like. Other than that, I like the idea.
After losing hope and fun on GT7, Im excited about Forza Motorsport but I agree with the UI. It reminds me of the GT Sport Beta back in 2017 which was forgettable
The car XP thing sounds good on paper however I do have a couple concerns with it, and the biggest main one is Forza's PI system. A class for example is a band of 701 PI to 800 and this is a massive gap in performance ingame. Assuming the devs are lazy and keep the current system where each bracket is 100 points (and it's turn 10 so yes they are that lazy) you're never going to have that luxury of actually slowly growing into a car using it's XP system for any online content. You will have to simply find the fastest way to grind it out before you actually race online. I'm sure some apologist will say "uh but that means you have to learn to dive first!", but are cars really so radically different that you need to spend 2 hours running laps against gimped AI to grnd out your 50th car? For single player it's fine, because AI will scale to you (another box of worms itself) but for online they're either going to need to have a lot more stock only events, have more intermediary tiers in PI or just make upgrades free in online modes. Turn 10 will probably do none and give you some terribly tuned rentals and the option to buy XP boosts (a few months after launch once they have got their initial sales). No, I don't enjoy being this cynical and jaded, it sucks and hope I'm proven wrong and this comment ages like milk.
Hmm, good point. The 100 PI "brackets" do kind of screw with the natural growth. Like you say they can scale the AI against the player in career (which isn't a great solution imo) but for other game modes it would kind of fall apart and would lead to people detuning their cars for specific PI classes and whatnot, which would completely miss the point...
I think people like you overreact to what information that we've been given. The PI system has been reworked and will be better than past titles. Also from what we heard, the old tuning meta for the PI just wouldn't work out for FM. FM is far more simulated in most aspects so if you're going to go to one extreme like with power, you'll be struggling to get around corners and be killing your laptimes. If you still don't believe me, here's reworked aspects of the simulations taking place: -Tire temps and pressures -Tire contact patch -Suspension and load transfer -Weight distribution -Fuel and tire wear -Aerodynamics -Track temps, rubbering in,etc. -Part performance and interactions. To elaborate on the last point, they mentioned that each part that can affect the sound of the car does that. That implies that they are simulating the function of the parts and how they interact with each other. That means to really maximise power, you would need to invest into that section heavily while having to deal with the stock drivetrain until level 40 or higher.
really hoping the car progression thingy not as frustrating as playing Racing Lagoon endgame where we want to max lvl all chassis, engine and body parts that we got from harder street opponents, took waaaay too long.
GT7 is really not that bad... if GT7 is the lowest of the low... then get ready for disapointment... with paid dlc for new cars and tracks splitting the player base and if the career mode is 50% as good as gt7 career is, its a win for forza
@@manostororosso2364 there's a car pass at launch, but that's always been negligible compared to the amount of free cars added too. As for paid tracks? That's straight up false. They've confirmed will be no microtransactions in this game too so if you really cared about this sorta thing it'd be a positive for forza overall. GT7s career consists of repetitive 'races' where you can't even race, just pass a spread out field of rolling roadblocks to try and catch up to first. If the AI is as good as they claim, forzas career should be a lot more fun to actually play.
@@existentialselkath1264 so all tracks will be free? Even after a couple of years? They will not start selling track or car packs? If so thats very positive. Don't remeber where but I 'll try to find the video that was talking about car packs and track packs just to remember what he said. Also the cars that are in the deluxe edition, are they able to be purchased for the base version as well with in game points or only real money?
@@manostororosso2364 there's a car pass which will be dlc cars you have to pay real money for. I think the deluxe edition also gives you cars for free that you can already earn in game, it's admittedly vague. I remember forza 6 had dlc packs with tracks, like the Nascar dlc, but it wasn't used in matchmaking so they stopped doing it with motorsport 7. They've already confirmed there will be post launch support for cars and tracks, and that the only monetization would be either THE car pass, or car passes plural (I couldn't tell). Benefits of a continuous gamepass income I guess.
I've played every Forza Motorsport except for 5 and 6. Wouldn't call 3 or 4 the best, due to how much they messed up the game's structure with the calendar and car handling, 3 being pretty understeery and 4 almost uncontrolable. In my eyes F1&2 had the basic structure nailed down. A complete set of different events with a variety of restrictions and formats (single races, championships, endurance). Experience unlocks more events and maybe some cars, events reward cars. In addition to there was the difficulty system that increased payouts for turning off assists or increasing ai rating and such. Point is they've been fucking with these systems for a while and 7 made a mockery out of them. Suddenly progression came through buying cars, the single player career wasn't fun (partially due to them overusing a lot of mediocre tracks) and arguably the best thing was the custom race creator, even with that broken AI. Multiplayer track voting took the fun out of that as well with random often being picked instead of the suggested tracks. One good thing it did though was allowing to decline reward vehicles as the game would otherwise drown you in them. So unless the next Forza (and screw rebooting a racing series without a story, this is FM8) starts out amazing I wouldn't hold my breath for it, cause evidence shows they won't necessarily fix stuff later. Already hearing things like using experience for car modification makes it clear that they are not on a path I care about. It is how you said in your GT7 critique: The studio gets a lot of complicated stuff right and fails at the simple things.
i love how, as GT's rival, Forza did everything the opposite way. it considers itself as not a racing *simulator,* but a simulation *game* and avidly game-fies things to make them interesting instead of doing like: "so, the road going McLaren F1 is more expensive than the McLaren-BMW F1 Longtail thing, so let's do that in the game as well". But on the other side, it does the "standard and premium cars", like Roflwaffle mentioned in his most recent video, using old models and not saying anything, while GT7 and Sport ditched the PS2 and PS3 models for more detailed ones made with laser-scanning and other modern techniques. Overall, from the two games, i would definetly pick Forza, because i always stated that graphics aren't as much of a deal as fun, that's why Horizon 1 is often regarded as the best Forza Horizon game, and GT7's attention to detail can't mask its horrendously flawed experience
I already have the feeling that this is the same thing then GT7. They just put something in, for the single players, even tho, they didn‘t care about it. I believe Motorsport 7 was better. And to be real Forza peak was many year ago… They just lost what thier own player base really wan‘t and only go for esport and money…
I enjoy the more "make your own game" style that forza seems to go with. Becuase I have a very particular way I got about playing racing games, so the developers just giving me a platform to enjoy my favorite type of racing in the way I want, enabling that for me, is very important to me specifically. That's why I really liked Assetto Corsa, the custom race options are great, there's tons of cars and I even modded in some of my own, which is just great. A game that would be a bit less Sim-like, more arcade-ey than assetto, with lots of options to mess around, that would be ideal of course. Still, I think for a general audience as well giving a lot of options and giving people a platform to enable players to play the game they want to play.
Remember the drag race experiment from Forza 7 whatever happened to that? Is there drag races in career mode, in the new Forza,you should be able to do burnouts to get them tires heated and pull up to the light tree. I remember they even had a questionnaire come out about the drag race experiment in 7, I hear nothing about.
the fact that it still lacks offroad racing despite calling the game "motorsport" and having offroad cars, it's basically just another concrete circuit racer just like the last one, i see very little changes and innovation here to justify a sequel
I like the car EXP idea, i lost interest in the later FM games once the progression went out the window because i had way too many cars and unlimited money a couple hours in.
I would normally recommend staying away from the S, but T10 is one company who will take the time to tweak their game. BUT you will suffer with other third-party racing titles in the future judging by my experience last gen.
@@beyond72deepsoulfulhousemixes I think it's a good solution if you're mostly on PC or PS5 and just need it for the occasional Xbox/console exclusive. As a PC player my S is just an NHL machine.
You can’t buy upgrades!?! That’s stupid. What if I wanna buy a car just to drive around with upgrades. Thinking about this as a reboot. Then the CarPG aspect does sound interesting. So I’m gonna hold my final judgement until I get my hands on it.
I will buy this game, and I will not return it but I know I'm going to absolutely ducking hate the car progression system, the always online and the Playlist stuff I also hate from the horizon games. It's just too damn much. Puts too much pressure on me to game every damn day if not I'm punished because of a car I can't afford because I don't have enough of the 15 different types of in game currency to afford that ONE car I want but missed out on when you could buy it with normal money... Just go back to Motorsports 4, give us a few new tracks, a few new cars and some more Racing series and you'd be golden.
20:33 - Imagine needing the requirement of "gamification" for a VIDEO GAME because a competitor VIDEO GAME is too much like real life (in an annoying way)
I know I'm just one person, but i will not be buying it. Just from the online portion of the campaign. You should never punish the people who want to just play games due to the people who hack.
The UI is much better than the 'METRO' style we've had to endure for the past generation of Motorsport. Being stuck in the back of a poorly lit garage in FM7 with a particularly terrible UI, This new one is a welcome change, And IMO, more inline with FM3 and 4s layout. The upgrading based on an almost skill progression of an individual car is extremely divisive. I'm reserving my own judgement til its out, Because I can definitely see how it could be terrible in practice, But I can also see how it fixes a lot of issues that have crept up in all racing games, and especially the Forza franchise. So if done well. Fantastic. If it turns out to be terrible. At least they attempted innovation, And that at the very least is worthy of praise at this point in the industry. And it could be really good, It could be a fantatic way to force people to get to know and understand how cars drive and feel before tossing them, As well as feeding a continual dopamine hit of leveling throughout each lap. It looks like you could be banging out 2-4 car levels each lap. Which may be very satisfying. The grid order thing is okay. But it really needs an option for actual grid qualifying. Nurburgring is erroneously absent AGAIN. A repeat of Motorsport 5. I also dont understand the dynamic weather not actually being dynamic in the campaign. They wont curate the difficulty but they will curate the weather despite advertising dynamic weather. I thought I remembered him saying "No two laps will ever be the same" Which in this case, couldnt be true. The whole curating thing and not having progressive difficulty I can see both ways. I like being able to turn everything off and have a consistent challenge throughout. It would be the best of both if they set the progression of the career up to have the settings default to a certain thing for each series. And you can go in and alter them if you want. Make it harder or easier. But if you let it do its thing. You have an experience of developing those skills over the campaign.
@@wolfboy20 Its a repeat of Motorsport 5. The last time they claimed to have rebuilt the engine 'from the ground up'. Which didnt have the Nurburgring til about a year later. I'd give it 2+ years this time. Due to us having so much more technology now that it somehow takes twice as long to do anything with it.
Multiplayer has a 'race weekend inspired structure' whatever that means. Presumably qualifying as challenge the grid wouldn't work when everyone wants to start 1st. For singleplayer, qualifying is completely arbitrary anyway. Where you start is entirely up to you as you can just set the difficulty accordingly. This skips the middle step. Personally I'm hoping free practice gives you a leaderboard of fastest laps at least so if you did want qualifying anyway you can just start in the position on the free practice leaderboard.
@@existentialselkath1264 I think they will put a mandatory practice session for a 3 or 4 lap race, if they use the best times of the practice session it will be nice
I still don't like how the events seem to just be "complete this specific event. move onto the next" i see absolutely no variety in progression - it seems 100% linear? i thought the tours would be fluid and you could start the Vintage Tour for example whenever you wanted, but no it looks like you need to finish the previous events for those too. so i dont see the appeal there whatsoever, seems even more linear than the cafe menu system everyone hates so much 🤷♂
You see in the vid, the different categories all have unlocked events, but each category is linear. I wish it was more open too, I'm not disagreeing with the criticism, but it's not quite so linear as it might seem
@@existentialselkath1264 the different categories are locked though? you can enter them to look at them but go to 2:46 or 26:26 for example and the first of the tours are locked and not available to play until you beat the required events.
@@nebuc72 I stand corrected, however Enthusiast and modern are both unlocked. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they tweak all that stuff before launch so details like that may change for the better... Or worse
Mostly, but it's not 100% linear from what I can tell. For instance, completing Built For Sport unlocks both Iconic Muscle and Super Sedans, so there is a small amount of choice, but not much. My hope is that as you complete more your options will become wider, opening outwards like a progression tree, but that remains to be seen.
@@Roflwaffle16 ahh yeah you're right, i noticed as well that the other Tours are unlocked by events early on in the first tour so its certainly not as linear as it initially seems. am curious to see how it actually 'feels' in terms of progression though, I fear it will make the same mistake that a lot of games do (GRID 2019 being a notable one) where the career is just "do an event, hop to the next event, repeat" without there being anything cohesive to tie it together. it would be nice to say, find a car you like in a certain tour or event, and be able to take that and build it up across various events, but all the events thus far seem quite isolated and im not sure if there'll be any opportunities for that (or if the XP system is even compatible with that idea).
It's not the "ability" to go online that's a negative, it's the fact that it's required to enjoy a single player experience. So when they decide to shut down the servers the game is gone.
The only singleplayer mode that will be online is the carrer mode
The free play and other modes will be offline
As always, this behavior is unacceptable, but if asked I'm sure it can be explained away with some nonsense about the licensing deals mandating they close off access to the game after they all expire
@@superninja252 Because it worked so well when GT7 went offline for several days during a patch (to nerf credit grinding) There's no need for the SP to be online at all.
@@superninja252 that's the point, i want to do the career offline
True gt7 goes crazy when my internet doesnt feel like working...
What I hate is the fact these new games never start you off with bad cars. Seems like all these games just throw at you crazy fast Cars straight away. I love the feeling of progression with the older games.
Good example old GT games and the old Motorsports games
yep, id like to go the iracing route where we have to start with miatas, geos, pintos, or some other shit car and then move on to like stock civics, then modded cars and get a liscense through each. So much better that way imo.
Forza 4 comes to mind. Your actual first car in that is something along the lines of a Toyota Aygo or a Ford Ka. There were more options than that, but it was those types of cars you were limited to for your first car.
Event structure plays a big part of it. What made traditional Gran Turismo careers so fun is that you had many events tailored to slower cars.
K-Car series, Miata/Roadster endurances, Production car only races, one-make races (Remember GT4's Diahtsu Midget race?), historic car cups, low-end rally events with 200 or 300 HP restrictions, Sunday and Clubman cups, compact/hatchback cups, the list goes on and on.
Even if you imported your 100k credits into GT4 and started out with a monster 500 HP tuned JDM or whatever, there were so many races that would make you take a step back into the slower machines and push them to the limit.
I feel the same. I wanted a real career mode. Like zero to hero mode. Start with low level series. Win money. Get sponsored. Use money to fix car damage. Build up a race team. Basically a race championship with calendar years seasons etc.
But nope we getting car xp that unlocks parts. With races that don't matter from one to the next
@@jcaashby3project cars 2 did something similar to this, but without the team management and the repairs part
Glad to see long podcast-ish videos back
Playground games did the "design the progression yourself" angle with fh5. Do some races, gain a "sticker" unlock whatever part of the game you want. Sounds great on paper but it's taking away from the designers giving you a well rounded experience and a path to follow, something to work towards, like this you could do the final showcase races immediatelly, which would be something you'd work hours for previously. Not a horrible thing, just kind of strange.
Either way I am looking forward to FM2023, its been far too long since I had access to a proper racer with some singleplayer progression. My last console was the PS2 so GT4 was the final game of this sort I played. GT7 PC is probably not happening so this is the only one, I'll play it no matter what. Hope it's enjoyable.
That's exactly my problem with these games currently. There's just no direction to take and it makes everything feel like a chore. The wristband in FH1 worked so much better than having the ability to do almost whatever I want at any given time.
Yeah honestly I prefer the wristband experience more, but I guess that comes more to the execution rather than the idea, FH5's "design the progression yourself" angle could work if they balance out how many accolades does it need to, how long will it take, what makes the decisions so different and apart from each other. If they can nail that angle, improve on their ideas, from the past and from the present, we could get a great game in our hands
Id rather design progression myself than have none like in GT7.
@@SecunderGT7 doesnt have any depth of game progression. At ALL.
@@weonvirtualwristband?
I like the fact that higher difficulties give higher rewards. It pushes me to try out the harder difficulties
Same thing with the assists, tire wear and damage. Its not going to encourage people to play with those things enabled and realize how much more they add to the racing experience.
@@spino5282yes. Simulation damage model usually offered the most reward basically.
@@spino5282not really, you’ll actually be slower with these assists on
@@fifteen8850 Depends on the assists in question and what game. That's not the point is was trying to make anyway. The point is that a lot more depth is added to the gameplay with assists off.
One of the ways that they could handle the car XP/upgrade system a little more efficiently is by tying to the progression to an entire manufacturer instead of an individual car.
This makes narrative sense because of the general interoperability within a manufacturer's product stack. It also reflects brand loyalty and discounts, especially when talking about access to crate engines and the know-how to swap drivetrains, across an entire product stack within a manufacturer's stable, let alone between unrelated automakers.
It could even be more in-depth. Considering that major tuners tend to focus on a single or a handful of brands (and major ones that are now in-house started off an independent entities, most notably AMG for Mercedes-Benz, Alpina for BMW, Shelby for Ford, and so forth), you could choose to have a specific tuner or set of tuners be a sponsor, and you increase your xp with them in order to unlock access to the requisite parts across the entire product stack for that manufacturer or group of manufacturers.
While I personally don't mind the new XP/Upgrade system, I can certainly see how it could get a bit annoying if you've been leveling a car for a long-time, only to then realize that it's incompatible with a large number of later races due to being in the wrong class.
Personally, the ideal mix would be having this system for XP/Upgrades, but utilize Gran Turismo's longstanding system (peaking back in GT4) for determining what class(es) each car fits into on a race-series by race-series basis. Forza has gotten to be a bit too narrow, and if I want to take a car I really like (lets say a "91 NSX or an '03 G35 coupe), upgrade and tune it, and have it compete against out-of-the-dealership supercars and hypercars, I want that to be an option. Instead of limiting them to these stringent and narrow classes, have more series that limit them by HP levels, or drivetrain, or decade, or county of origin. If we're going to be racing some of these individual cars for hours to reach max level, there has to be enough variety in the cars and tracks we contend with to keep things interesting. Simply upping the difficulty or turning off certain driver aids isn't sufficient anymore.
Nonetheless, I'm still excited about the game, and as I can't justify dropping $500 on a PS5 just for Gran Turismo (especially when I have a good gaming computer at my desk), this will be my sim racer of choice for the next few years.
Both things Forza 4 (and the earlier GT games to a point) got very right.
Any GT fan thinking of checking out Forza for the career mode should be excited that in the last game, you could change the length of almost every career race! (It was preset though, something like 2--5, 10-20 or 20-50)
Been looking forward to seeing your opinion on this.
The nature of progression is to make certain content less accessible, which is always going to be controversial.
I really like what they're doing though, it looks to be a massive improvement over the mess that was 5, 6, and 7 and the last thing I expected after all their marketing was focusing on casual selling points like visuals.
The only gamewas mostly show on showcases, on showcases the apeel will be always for general public
@damarfadlan9251 only career mode is online all others will be possible to play offline with all in game cars
@@superninja252 as I understand it, any mode that is connected to progression will be always online.
Free play won't be online so I assume you can't progress in that mode, though I've heard people say otherwise so I might have missed something
@@existentialselkath1264i gonna put FORZA MOTORSPORT 8 into NO BUY cuz of online only for even offline singleplayer career mode.😢
@@existentialselkath1264That's still a huge ripoff. The "progression", aka the actual "CaRPG" part, is the part that makes new racing games actually worth buying. GT/Forza ARE their careers, that's the primary selling point, that's the part you actually buy. If it doesn't have that offline, you don't own the full game, you own a $70 demo. This was the exact same problem I had with GT Sport and GT7. 😠
Im very interested in the AI, I want to properly challenge myself against AI that doesnt cheat
Same. Forzas last insistence on starting midfield and requiring a win has encouraged dirty driving and lacklustre AI.
I'm gunna start 4th, set the AI as hard as I can handle, and try to get first. Even a podium seems enough to progress so it's the perfect risk/reward/fun balance for me
@@existentialselkath1264yep. What about starting last?
@@purwantiallan5089 when you're encouraged to always finish on the podium (which is still much better than having to finish first), starting last encourages dirty driving against AI, especially with limited laps. You also don't really race anyone, the other cars are just roadblocks to get stuck behind or speed past.
Its a fun challenge for sure, I love the option, but it's rarer to see really close racing against AI so I'm looking forward to that more.
@@existentialselkath1264 Or they could've just put qualifying in it like everyone's been asking for for a long time now.
@@firefaceguy6479 people have been asking for qualifying for multiplayer. There's no point in singleplayer.
Your starting position is entirely arbitrary and dependant on how difficult you set the AI to be
Counterpoint to the weather convo at around 30:30 - static weather across individual races allows for leaderboards.
Also speedruns are consistent. Only played a little bit of GT4 but from the looks of challange runs there's only really randomness to opponents but it's still very replayable due to lots of available routes
I feel that the car xp thing could be improved a bit by having Brand Bonus. If you have X cars (max level, idk) of the same brand, all cars of that brand gain X% bonus xp
Older Forza titles had something similar, specifically Motorsport 2. By choosing your region when you start the game, your driver level would both unlock price discounts for buying all cars from that region, and unlock cars from that region (North American, European, or Asian were your 3 options). Your car level would provide discounts for part brands, which either only affected one brand, or multiple brands (HKS, Hooker, MOPAR, etc.) It already existed before, and what they're doing now is just a watered-down repaint.
@uberschnilthegreat22 FM8's system works quite differently though. Theres a new "currency" which you adquire by driving a car, which you *need* to use to unlock and buy parts *for that specific car*
They jump around with cars because that’s how it is in real life, you get drives and get to hit different tracks in different cars. I like the model, as you get better you get to drive slower stuff more on the edge. I hate when you get closer to the end and it’s just all over powered race cars. I like them but not every race, that feels repetitive.
I like the weather system and I think they did it right from what we're seeing. I think it's perfectly fine to have fully randomized weather conditions in multiplayer races, but when there's an online leaderboard involved like in career races/time trials/etc then I think it should be the same conditions for every player. Only time will tell if that is what they're truly going with but I like the direction.
Gotta love the variety of roflwaffle
The tuning parts being locked behind a car level grind... per car.... is probably my biggest worry. This game will not surpass FM4 on that alone. The only real limit should be credits. As you said for some GT7 features @Roflwaffle it's "Pointlessly restrictive", especially in the long run.
I mean I think a lot of people are miss understanding it, the car parts are permanently unlocked once you have unlocked them, and car points are totally refundable so if you made a top speed build but now want to make a drift build then refund the car points, I like this because it’s got way better sense of progression and gives you reasons to spend time with all your cars, in forza horizon and the last 3 motorsports games 70% of the cars I’ve not spent more than a single race with them let alone anything else, this way you appreciate the car and take time making it look nice
Yeah, this shit is stupid
I think that is a way for them to monetize the game even more, just like Ubisoft did with the RPGs assassin's Creed
I thought GT7 was dumb for only handing them out after a certain point in the game it makes GT5' limited levels use look like masterpiece. With only levels used sparingly. But got to have levels and RPG systems when something like Alfa Romeo Racing Italiano used it's RPG elements not for levels that way but points to into optional benefits not level gating but whatever Devs got to follow the industry and watde players time with garbage design then actually useful ones and doing something new not progression that's too hindering. They do realise people make content on flexible games right? Unless playing the game the first time and never again because you can't do much else with it. Especially servers and killing its life span.
CP points sure fine enough other games do other currencies but level gating is dumb. Besides I never use upgrades 99% of the time in the series because the cars are auto tuned by the Devs (besides I play on normal) in many cases or unless on hard difficulty where you would need them or just be a better skilled driver of course with whatever AI that hasn't changed.
You never need them while GT never had difficulty settings so you needed upgrades.
@@pedrovictor4256 this game has absolutely no microtransactions and no monetization besides a car pass. You can't buy credits or points. That was stated point blank
Forza Motorsport's always online connection for the career mode is a deal breaker for me, I had my ISP internet shut off like 6+ times in 2023 with no internet access, so it does happen from time to time where you can't play online games.
Looking forward to this game. I like the idea of car xp and car progression. I wish they had adjustable TCS and ABS. I have been playing GT7 since launch and definitely want something new to play.
I always found the preset TCS and ABS settings the most disappointing part of the Forza series
It's really interesting as 13 year old me tuned everything, messed with all the settings. Much older me prefers to challenge myself (sic) with the default ones these days. Age, experience, wisdom and shocking AI make that sort of moot but I rarely tune cars past just liveries :)
Anything will be better than menu books
The moment i learned that Forza 8 is going to have a forced internet connection, the game died for me. No one should support blackmailing. No one should cause, by supporting it, to let the cancer spread any further. It's interesting to see that mostly oldschool gamers have their thinking caps on and are voting with their wallets by not buying it.
my dream racing game: gt4 but with added modern cars. fin xd
Amen!
Car xp system gives reason to the rhym in my opinion. They could expand on test drives with tuned up versions of the cars to try out.would add a little slice of fun for free to break up the monotony.
One glaring issue (could be fixed later, but if implemented is a bust): forza playersare used to have copies of cars with different setups. Car xp system at least now is tied to specific car, so to tune copy of the car, you need to grind it too
One thing you didn't mention is the DirectML hardware inside the Xbox Series X|S GPU, which the PS5 lacks. Sophie AI is running on the CPU.
I just want a practice session (which they did) and a qualifying session before every race
Time to make another video since the game is out now.
Forza Motorsports 7 just had an update around the same time they presented the key features of the upcoming title. The update has modified the difficulty, I am quite good at playing Forza I'm usually in the top 1-3%.
I realised that on unbeatable difficulty the drivers actually race like the people around the leader boards time that I place on the track that I'm on, before it would be people from my friends list or those of a similar driver level. It is tough!!! It feels like I'm racing against myself (which is not easy) Before the update I was easily beating the A.I by 3 seconds or more on each lap now I can barely get 1 sec ahead of pack, barely place 5th let alone get close to 3rd. By the time I worked my way up the pack starting from 12th position the race is almost over. So much time is wasted fighting against the A.I. I dont like racing dirty but it's like the system wants to incentivise you to do so, if you race too clean you will never get ahead in a timely manner in order to win the race. And really can't afford to make any mistakes, you have to be consistent!!! Small mistakes are costly and I'm taking about .300 to 1.0 second increase in lap times.
As you progress in getting faster times one particular A.I is also doing the same, like I said its almost like racing yourself. And that A.I at least in my case was using the same car as me, ( Which is just a coincidence, considering that those I placed best times with on the leader board also used the same vehicle)
I don't want to say that I hope that the A.I isn't as difficult in the up coming title but how can I improve as a driver if I'm not challenging myself. The game really knows how to challenge the player in helping them become better at the sport.
I might have just peaked my skill and abilities with my current setup using a controller. I know that with a steering wheel and proper set up I can shave at least 2 to 3 seconds off my best times. But just because I'm faster during that race doesn't mean the next race will be any easier 😅.
You can't win them all unless you're number 1 and even then you'll probably be racing a simulated version of yourself 😅.
About the Always Online, it is better than the GT7 one that limits you to play a boring mode of time attack with music
Chris said that will let you play all other non-carreer modes, specially free play where ALL cars and tracks will be unlocked for you to play, similar to GT4´s Arcade Mode
i dont like it but at least, wont limit you to a boring mode, at least will let you play with the car+track combo you want, besides career mode will be locked
Small correction: When offline in GT7 you can not only play "Music Rally", but also Time Trial, Drift Trial and Arcade Races on all Tracks with whichever cars you have in your garage.
Sucks, but sounds more similar to what Forza will offer.
I dont think you can save your progress if your offline.Its not a drama for me personally,by the time they shut down the servers i will have moved on to something else,prob FM9.👍
Personally I feel the "design your own game" aspect is a good practical choice whereby they can appeal and make it accessible to more people outside the sim-cade racing community, possibly banking in on some buys and playtime from the new horizon community since they've launched on steam. All the while it doesnt take away from the experience from someone like me as I can choose to make things just hard enough for a rewarding experience, and the endgame becomes to push my own limits further. I personally dont need the introduction into these games now, but I know I would've appreciated it when I was new to these.
The car xp progression system looks great for me personally, as of recently I have started tuning cars myself (I'm not good at it) and so the idea to chop and change things without cost to see what works with practice laps included into the campaign is great for me. Practice laps itself is a great addition for me as in motorsport 7 it took me the first 1 or 2 laps to get used to the car and track (I increase race length to medium)
What I am sceptical about is the AI as they took a really drastic step backwards in horizon 5 for no apparent reason. I'm glad they mention it but I will wait and see before I buy.
I'm not much of an online racer, I prefer to avoid it, but it will be interesting to see how the penalty and driver rating systems are implemented, as I am of the belief that race stewarding cannot be a deterministic computer code, it has to be judged on a case by case basis, otherwise ways to game the system arise as is very evident in gt7.
The game looks fun. The CARPG aspect gets me really excited vs the horrendous microtransactions in GT7. At least the Forza developers respect me as a consumer and arent trying to take my money at every opportunity like GT7. Im super excited for this game. Cant wait to sink in hours learning and upgrading my favorite cars
lol Youre overexaggerating. GT7 isnt predatory with its MTX, its nowhere near it.
But you havent played the game cause youre a Xbox dickrider spreading BS.
I haven’t used a single microtransaction in GT7, and I have nearly every car in the game.
You sad children just want too much instant gratification, and don’t want to invest the necessary time and patience to achieve anything.
You want easy handouts, like a whiny little toddler?
Stay in Forza Special Education where you belong…
Huh? They do try to take your money at every opportunity with cutting out content/cars and reselling it as overpriced DLC.
I bought GT7 and stopped when I found it it was online only. My internet is great but, I'm not doing it.
game over the years have gotten less and less linear, with emphasis on open world systems and user control over the exerpience and it was in general a huge improvement. But now we have reached the point where you risk losing an identity. I prefer a more linear experience with clear objectives that I can't just adjust past by just changing a setting. When you try to appeal to everyone you can end up appealing to know one.
Exactly. More freedom does not necessarily mean a better game. This freedom usually comes at a high price...
always online?
yawn...guess ill just go back to bed, wake my up when racing games actually worth playing again (or when Roflwaffle posts a new video)
I fell asleep on the tram
fr like i'll pass with that always online shii
To get more into the points mentioned in the video:
Having the requirement to do some work with a car to improve it instead of just buying all the upgrades right away sounds good to build some attachment. Although it depends on how it plays out. I don't like using my vehicles stock and if they make me race a halfway done build, they better offer me something worthwhile to do with it.
Also I hope this is really to benefit the player and not to make the game lesser than its predecessors again to fix that problem with microtransactions. That already happened in FM7 with difficulty settings and people were not impressed.
Overall I like the old difficulty and payout scaling system. Biggest problem was when putting the settings up too far, but it helped me push my skills further. And in general it's only a huge difference when you compare a pro who goes to the hardest settings compared to someone who uses all assists. You'll quickly get into getting a decent bonus each race with some middle of the road settings. But again they are screwing with this system for no apparent reason by batching up the settings. It's clearly not necessary and I don't see a good reason for it.
Also FM7 had some multiclass stuff. You could set it up yourself in Free Play (best mode in 7 by *far* ) with 4 subclasses either being scored independently or as a whole. It worked, but cars wouldn't make space for faster divisions and those could get stuck behind the slower vehicles possbily for an entire lap even. The fast cars drove up so close and just tailgated that they could barely get past.
Your videos are top tier man.
I think the car xp system could be interesting.. it should Foster some more attachment to specific vehicles
Yes. But Online Only made this game much like it duplicated GRAN TURISMO 7, which is completely broken and bad cuz of online only nature.
For the car level up system; it would be nice to see the level not just cap at 50 but will keep going.
May not earn much more afterwards but that will still give purpose to drive the car and show how much experience you have with it
Honestly I'd be fine with just a cosmetic level. The upgrades may stop, but imagine seeing someone who drove a car to the point it was level 100. you know they know that car well. A thing I noticed, in GT7, is the collector level maxed out at 50 as well but you still had plenty to collect. Granted this is as someone that doesn't have a playstation so I can't play it.
It'd also be really cool if you DID see someone's car level if you were online or something, flex your time with the car or something.
I think the design is made like this to appease to casuals like me honestly :D before adding stuff like tire wear I need to be real good eheheh
Thanks for speaking about the UI, most people just shrug it off as something no one cares about. These games do not need to look like bland mobile games, especially when they have had strong visual identities before, they don't even have an excuse that it's all for functionality's sake when Horizon 4 and 5 are complete messes when it comes to menus. GTR2 two decades ago had more personality and functionality than most racing games in recent memory.
Also please play earlier Horizon titles if possible. Horizon 4 and 5 are far from the greatness they achieved before and I can assure you won't feel like you missed out on FOMO-driven content.
Looking forward to it can't wait
I think you're right. in all my forza games i do the same thing mid game, max out a car right after buying it drive it once and forget about it. I'm def looking forward to this design idea, I think it will be well reminiscent of the early gt 1 2 and 3s and early forzas where money was much harder to come by and you had to progress in that way anyhow. way to much focus on the instant gratification in games these days, its like these devs are scared everyone will get bored and quit if its too hard, but ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy because its too easy and people lose interest.
I must say, I deeply despise Forza Motorsport’s career mode being always online. Some of my best memories are being on a road trip and being able to play Forza Motorsport 7’s career mode offline. I know Motorsport 7 wasn’t the best game, but I quite enjoyed it.
@user-yx4pc9oz5t that’s actually very different. Free play takes effort to set up races and cool events. Think about how I said I played the career in Motorsport 7 and think about the fact that I did not say free play. The experience between the two is very different. In addition, I see no stipulation saying that I need to be online for new tracks to be added. To download the track in the update initially obviously, but otherwise no. The easy example is that you could use DLC cars offline in any previous Forza game so that should be a non issue. That’s the part that frustrates me. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a foolish Forza fanboy and pre-ordered the game but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna look past potential design flaws. Also, sorry, I know this is a rather long response.
@user-yx4pc9oz5t while these are both very cool, they're no reason for career to be offline only
@user-yx4pc9oz5tcan't they just release a finished game?
@@mattBLACKpunk actually there is one: Hackers
Always online makes harder for hackers hack their way in the game
@@superninja252 were talking about the single player career, no? Let them cheat the fun out of that in any way they desire
The whole difficulty and rewards payout criticism is just stupid. You get rewarded for driving better and getting better. Something Forza as a whole needs thanks to rammers. Also you're getting the freedom to play the game how you want so i don't understand why it's a problem. Lastly, if we didn't have the whole choose your difficulty system, what would we have then? Like if there's no valid criticisms beyond ones that we have heard before, only to get it and then complain that it's too easy, then challenge shouldn't be a talking point to begin with.
My history in racing games looks like this
GT- 3 4
forza 1 2 3 4 7 and horizon 1
also I was an X-Box boi
I played 7 so much even thought its trash. so was horizon
I think Forza blends the line of sim / arcade better than GT......but I do have a lot of missing content
I really want Forza MS--8 to be good. I have high hopes
I HATE the car leveling system it is DUMB! Want people to drive their car more GIVE THEM MORE RACES TO DRIVE IT IN!!! AALSO they lied there is NO way you will get to LVL 50 in 2-3 hours of driving. I am playing it NOW and I say it will take at least 5-6 hours. The worst part is there is NO REAL REASON to drive most of the cars that long! FIRST the opponents all increase performance when you do so upgrades are ALMOST pointless you can win without them when the whole field level matches to you. SECOND EVERY event seems very exclusive so once you win in it with about 1 hour of driving at most, then the next event will need a COMPLETELY new car STOPPING you from using the car you were leveling, then after that for the next event you will need a 3rd car so you will spend the WHOLE campaign Driving ALMOST BONE STOCK cars and afterward having PILES of lightly upgraded cars that have no use in the campaign that you need to drive the at same ONE or TWO events for another 4-5 hours to make PROPERLY good and for what ,Multiplayer? NOBODY is gonna spend 5 hours grinding just then to be able to START tuning the car in earnest just to see if maybe a car is competitive in multiplayer, everyone will just wait for Strat guides to tell them what to pick and not waste their LIFE. If SOMEBODY would just make a game like GT 1,2,3 or 4 where you start poor buy a old car start to upgrade it with small amounts of money won from races until you MAX it out to where it is almost undriveable, because it has way more power than the chasis can handle. Then have the cars in the next series still be too fast and then you need to invest in a new faster car to compete with the rise of stronger opponents, and not give you hyper cars EVERY TEN SECONDS or make you grind useless cars for 5-6 hours just to be able to start tuning them for real after that it is NO FUN. It seems every dev has forgotten that GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN even grinding can be fun when done right But THIS AINT IT. When I played the older GT games I used to put a self imposed restriction on the money I spent upgrading a new car. Once I bought the car with my cash reserves, the only money I would spend improving it would come from racing that specific car and winning, and since there were SO MANY open events you could enter DOZENS of events with that car almost feeling like you were playing a fresh Campaign with a new starter car. That was SUCH an ENJOYABLE experience I wish that gameplay loop would return it made me fall in love with the strangest cars like the Nissan Bluebird in GT6. I HATE the Honda Fit and I hate FF cars in GT (they feel better in Project cars) so the first thing I did was sell the fit (before racing it) and buy an FR car and the only two I could afford was the Midget or the Bluebird so you know what I picked. Even though it was old and weak It FOUGHT HARD and brought me Victory after Victory against cars it had NO BUSINESS racing against and I slowly fell in love with this goofy little Japanese car I never heard of from the 70's with a rubber band engine and the soul of a Race car inside it that SAVED me from the Honda Fit and made it possible for me to not HATE GT6
Tbh I played all Forza Motorsports since 2 and I must admit that since 4 it's pretty much the same game with better graphics every single time. There's been some quality of life here and there of course, but seeing the new trailers and listening to them going "built from the ground up" over and over (as they did previous games as well) does not attract me any longer.
I just now learnt this new game's gonna be Always online for single player as well, just like GT7. We all know why Poliphony did it in the end, and "cheaters in online races" were clearly the least of their concerns. I'm not even at the fence any longer. I just want a good career-focused racing game, not a car collection simulator which also happens to let you race.
Don't call me a "hater". I'd say I'm more someone that is somewhat waiting for a return to a driving game that focuses on its user's fun, rather than "engagement". Which are two different things.
i like cars
Couldn’t have said it better
My issue with the car XP is a fact that it's literally per car. So if I want a 2022 mustang built for drifting and one built for drag racing after go through that 2-hour process for each car
You could have a tune for drift and another tune for drag. I feel like it incentivizes having more tunes so hopefully the limit isn’t low on that.
Thinking about the carpg system, it reminds me of Enthusia, a PS2 gem of a game I adore to this day. It was after the race and such when you got the points, but collisions, overtaking others, and such would award points on the car. It had ten tuning levels, where the weight would reduce, the tires may be better ones. Etc. In fact it even had audible impacts on your car when your engine or internals got better. It was very basic, being an older game, but leveling cars to ten felt so rewarding. If this game is indeed fun, I wouldn't be against leveling as many cars to 50 as I could, if not all of them.
I didn't get to play basically any gran turismo, or any forza, so this would be my first foray into things. But after hearing about GT7...and its everything, I am a bit excited, partially just because I can play the game.
As for always online, honestly that's not as huge a deal as it seems. I mean I understand if someone has a spotty connection, then yes it's bad and I'm sorry they have to go through that...but think about how much online gaming people do. It's to the point that games just outright focus on pvp, or various player interacting modes and ignore the campaigns. By the time the game's servers shutdown, say they don't patch for offline use after, we all know we'd move on to the next thing, if not just "I had my fill, I'm good". Would I be sad I can't play a game if the servers go down? Yeah, I've had it happen before, but I would at least remember the fun times I had.
It's stated that leveling a car will take 2-3 hours. The base game has over 500 cars. Leveling them all up would take 1500 hours (minimum estimate) This system is awful IMHO. The time commitment needed is absolutely unfathomable for 99.9% of players ever if not absolutely every player if the game is lackluster or lacking content. It also ruins the drip feed of weekly car unlocks. How many weeks do you think you can stand driving a car 2-3 hours before you can drive it the way you want? People are vastly underestimating the time sink this system implies. It's brutal tbh.
@@trautsj Oh I know, and get it. but I still would, because...well I just want to. Even if I had work and all, I probably still would because I just want to be that weirdo.
@@trautsjif you played any other game, like modern cod games, you’d realize that that time length is basically the norm. Besides not everyone wants all of cars the game offers
I remember grinding 100 races in gran turismo 2 to win big cash to buy a car that can participate in specific cup but it felt rewarding
I'm cautiously optimistic about the overall direction, but I'm pretty concerned about whether they can get the specifics right. I skipped FM5, but FM6 and 7 feel really, really sloppy about the event design and structure at times (seriously look up the initial event/car choice after the intro in FM7 if you don't know how absurd it is).
I'm also really bored of the way all the previous gen Forzas just split cars neatly into categories and then use those as the only way to do car restrictions (outside the Horizon live service championships). I understand it's more realistic to always have similar cars racing each other, but part of the appeal of these games with giant car rosters is getting to see them in different contexts. Old GT and Forza made picking cars for different events so much more engaging because each car wasn't just one thing and only that thing. You'd think especially if we're supposed to grow attached to cars as we level them that we'd want decade/country/drivetrain/etc. events to take them somewhere other than a one-off series for a bunch of similar cars.
Great points made.
I just always feel they don't give us enough freedom to do what we want.
I want to be able to set up races exactly how I choose.
@@jcaashby3you can do that in free play because let's say you just want to just go and do all the races in the dry at 8 in the morning, you'll learn to just play one set of conditions. When you get to online, you'll then get bombarded with different scenarios and so on and just end up frustrated with the game and blame it for your own mistakes. This way is far better and prefer a single player where we're getting multiple scenarios to deal with to keep it fresh and interesting.
In the future, this game will be known as Forza '23.
At the very least it looks like turn10 are trying to make a fun and engaging racing game and not a pretentious car collecting gacha game like Kaz and the team at PD
I was looking forward to Forza Motorsport until they revealed that you need an active internet connection just to even play the SINGLEPLAYER career mode. This is what put me off of GT Sport and GT7
I'm not thrilled about it either, however I have PC Gamepass so everything I play on there has to be always online anyways. Since I'll have it day one on Gamepass I'll be playing there.
@@jamespingel8730 gamepass pc is always online? I'm gunna have to check that. My pc is rarely disconnected so I wouldn't have noticed but I didn't think that was the case.
@@existentialselkath1264 I haven't tried playing gamepass offline, but every time I launch anything for the first time I have to give it permission to access my profile and every time I launch it afterwards it syncs up with MS servers before launching. I'd be very surprised if I can play those games offline, but for all I get to play for $10 month it's a trade I'm willing to make.
@@jamespingel8730I've tried to before and i couldn't play FH5. So yeah, you need to always be online
@damarfadlan9251 i'm voting with my wallet. I spent a lot on FH5 and was dissappointed there too
I have a feeling that the requirement for a constant internet connection may be linked with the machine learning of the AI. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, where Forza is constantly exchanging AI data with an Azure cloud server.
MFS 2020 constantly has world data streamed to it, in real time, as you play. Of course the reason for this is that according to asobo, the entire size of MFS2020, server and client, is measured in petabytes. Obviously, that is too large to even be remotely reasonable for someone to install on their computer, hence why they turned to the cloud as a solution, but I wouldn't be surprised if AI in Forza Motorsport uses the same kind of solution to solve for the intensive process of active Machine Learning
I think the car xp is a good idea, but, once you get to the max level it would be great if the xp after this could be shared with other cars or turned into credits you can use to buy other cars, parts etc. This way you can keep using your shortlist of favourite cars and still earn something useful post the max level. You could even have the xp after max level be earned at a lower rate so leveling up a car from zero will be faster, but that way you have some choice.
I think that car levelling may end up as more limiting then standard "monetary" system (like the one in previous FMs and GTs). The biggest issue is that, you need to drive for seemingly long time just to make car viable in later, higher class events. For example if they have a late German Sports Cupe series, up until that point you were driving let's say BMW M3. Now you want to mix it up a little, so you buy Mercedes C-klasse AMG, and whoops now it may illegible for that event, so you have to grind levels. Compare that to "standard" progression - You have German Sports Cupe series, got bored of BMW M2, so you buy Merc C-klasse, it's illegible, you buy few upgrades and you're free to race.
That was the biggest strength of FM over GT - thanks to fairly open upgrades, you could take one of the starter cars, upgrade it and race on equal footing with R3 class cars (FM4 as example).
One saving grace of always online is getting updates that can adjust elements like the carpg system or difficulty bonus. T10 aren't great but they're at least marginally better than PD at fixing issues brought up by the community
The updates have nothing to do with allways on...
I went back to check out forza motorsport 4, since people speak so well of that game and I had no previous experience with the series, to see how good it was.
I was fully underwhelmed by it.
There's no custom races. No fuel. No Tire wear. There's the endurance cars but no option to go onto an endurance race.
Then every starting event is a 3 to 5 minutes race that doesn't even let you learn the track before it's over.
The game has both driver and manufacturer levels. The manufacturers levels I find it an interesting idea, the more you race with that brand, more and more discounts you get on upgrades. Now the driver level I found it frustrating, because it both locks you out of events but also gives you a new car every single level and it's too easy to level up, completely ruining the idea of a carrer mode.
"Oh yes, we know you finish last that race, but you leveled up so here's a free Lancer".
I hope the new forza motorsport doesn't follow this model.
What you cant forget is FM3 and 4 were released for Xbox 360 hardware, only 1 game, that I know of, could get any form of realistic tyre wear and fuel, that being the F1 games by codemasters and ignoring that, the primary pull, for me at least, for those 2 games were the "do any race in whatever car you want" aspect, yeah some stuff required certain races/championships at certain tracks but by and large, you could do any race in any car
Pretty interesting. I personally love Forza Motorsport 4 and its progression system and I went to check out Gran Turismo 4 recently, since people say it's the best game in that series and handles progression well.
It disappointed me.
Abysmal car reward system upon completing a championship which often hands out high value cars which you can sell out of nowhere or completely useless concept cars- I much prefer Forza Motorsport 4's driver levels which assign a value of 0 to the cars you obtain and actually gives you a choice.
The game also sounds like a broken blender.
I'd hardly call the physics good. Every single car feels like it's on ice.
There's no interior view because it's old, but that doesn't bother me much. The angle of the chase cam does though. It's stiff and neuters just about every feeling of driving there is.
License tests are annoying, simply put. In the original Forza Motorsport, Turn 10 specifically wanted to have no license tests because they detracted from the experience. People already good at driving don't need them and more casual players don't want them. It's a better test to just throw your players directly onto the track.
I never want to see Forza Motorsport turn into a Gran Turismo game. I still maintain the best progression done in a simcade racer of this style is Forza Motorsport 4- it's not without its flaws, but it's the best baseline and I still have more fun playing it than any other game of its kind.
I think we can all agree nostoligia plagues a lot of peoples minds. Something we grew up with always be better in our heads. I replayed some ps2 games I remember being fire and they were absolutely trash. FM4/GT4 are held high because of nostoligia. Games today play so much better even if progress isn't up to par to these people.
Currently playing FH2, the "holygrail of FH" for fanboys and this championship progression system is not great all. I honestly much rather prefer the freedom of FH3-FH5. I played FH2 after FH3/FH4. No nostoligia to blind me.
@@PaneledPear Well, Forza is right to add a value of 0 to a car given by level up, because that's the value it has when you did nothing to deserve it. I agree that some car rewards in GT4 are a over the top for some lower championships, but if you did had to do something to get them and if you don't want the car you can sell it for money and open up more options to play.
I don't mind the liscence system because it serves it purpose of teaching people the basic and advanced players can breeze through it. You also only need to make it once.
The phisics of GT4 weren't the best, but that was the PS2 era of racing games. It was as good as you could get there.
The best thing isn't to give the players random new cars for nothing. Give them credits in a reasonable rate so they can choose and earn new cars.
@@Left4Coragem Selling the car for money is the entire problem with GT4's progression imo. It can often turn progression into just doing the same championship over and over again for best results. That feels far more unearned than FM4's driver level rewards which stop giving cars after 50.
The thing with the car rewards is they go very well with World Tour mode. Often you'll get a car and can start using it immediately after you get it, so they're not given pointlessly. It makes the game incredible to play from a fresh save, imo.
A bit later on when you want more expensive cars, the best way to earn money isn't even directly from race rewards- it's the affinity level system combined with driver levels after 50. You get huge credit bonuses which take a fair amount of time to earn.
I love the affinity system. Level 4 to get a 100% discount on all of your upgrades is easy to achieve and great for the early game grind. There's also this interesting mechanic with affinity levels where after level 21, the next levels are actually shorter (still pretty long at 50k xp required) while the reward value continues to go up every few levels. It encourages you to get past that affinity level on multiple manufacturers and makes you consider your car choice if you want the most credits.
Heck, the affinity system even makes you consider which car you want to pick from a level up reward. "Should I pick the Ford stock car or the Chevy stock car? Both are identical in performance." Stuff like that is pretty cool.
I am very excited about this. The progression seems incredible! I'm so happy they removed the homologation bull from the last one! hope it takes it back to the greatness of 3 and 4
The CaRPG idea sounds nice as a concept, but it's going to get REALLY annoying later on in the game when you want to try new competent cars -- except you can't, gotta grind some races first!
Getting to learn the car is entirely pointless like this too since once the car gets fully modded it's essentially an entirely different car and almost nothing you learned about it applies anymore.
This concept would work much better if it was category specific rather than individual car specific. That way you can keep trying new cars, but not feel like you have to start from scratch every time. For instance you'd have experience for different tire types, engine types, chassis types and so forth and you gain xp either through activity, like changing tires would give a lot of xp to tires and just driving hatchbacks would give hatchback xp and driving with certain engine sizes would give xp in those engine categories and so forth.
Also any excuse about having to be only for anti-cheat purposes is just BS. It's for DRM purposes, anti-cheat functionality comes as a secondary thought.
For me it seems like they took few things from other games. Career progression is lake that in Real Racing 3 (it's mobile game, but resemblace is huge). The "must do" practice is "taken" from F1. Car exp and leveling is similar to the games like World of Tanks etc. The last one can be problematic, as there'll be (over) 500 cars at start. 500 x 2hrs to 3hrs = 1000hrs to 1500hrs to play, just to get max lvls on the initial cars. IMO they should add something like "free exp" earned alongside with normal exp (mb 10% of original score) that can be spent on any other car. This can also rebound as players will be able to max new cars in future minute after buying, using that "free exp" thay acumulated by just playing.
I think a qualifying feature would have enhanced more progression. The Practice Mode is welcome new change. But, why not also have qualifying. Also, why aren’t there any animated pit stops? Why is it there prioritize graphics that they forget the most important components of Motorsport Racing. Also, the Gamescom Footage won over my heart toward the game too. I think it’s six events, per Tour in the Career Mode. The RPG Element is another welcoming change and I truly think that with Rally and Motorcycles added in the near future will make the experience de worth while. Until then, I’d say pre-order it and enjoy it. If this was two months ago, I’d say the opposite.
Please dont use forza horizon to base your opinions on forza motorsport. Horizon and motorsport are developed by 2 completely different studios in 2 different continents.
I am aware. My point is that Forza as an overall franchise will have certain expectations, regardless of if it's Motorsport or Horizon. There will be an amount of people coming from Horizon over to Motorsport, given that it's Microsoft's premier racing title, some of which may have never even played a previous Motorsport game. Some decisions are likely to be influenced by this but it's also interesting to compare and contrast the two, such as with FM's car XP system which will lead to a completely different style of play from FH.
Good video man subbed
I don't like how this series ditched the "start slow, finish fast" mentality established in the first four Forzas.
Assists off when making lobbys; fingers crossed. Gave FM4 longevity, omission has me not playing Wreckest anymore.
There is no difficulty rating in real racing, its all about your ability to drive.
For instance no real GT3 level driver would drive WITHOUT all assists ON. No real race driver is going to drive 200 mph with assists off.
Its all about setting yourself up properly on the chassis dyno.
Adjustments and skill.
My personal opinion is that I don't mind the 'caRPG' aspect, though there is one thing that will annoy me.
It's having to level up ANOTHER car if you want to have a duplicate of the Z for example, where you have one for racing S and one for racing in A. You'd have to level both of them up individually. That's what I don't like. Other than that, I like the idea.
After losing hope and fun on GT7, Im excited about Forza Motorsport but I agree with the UI. It reminds me of the GT Sport Beta back in 2017 which was forgettable
Not sure you'll see this, but I would be interested in seeing your opinion now that the game has been out for some time
The car XP thing sounds good on paper however I do have a couple concerns with it, and the biggest main one is Forza's PI system. A class for example is a band of 701 PI to 800 and this is a massive gap in performance ingame. Assuming the devs are lazy and keep the current system where each bracket is 100 points (and it's turn 10 so yes they are that lazy) you're never going to have that luxury of actually slowly growing into a car using it's XP system for any online content. You will have to simply find the fastest way to grind it out before you actually race online.
I'm sure some apologist will say "uh but that means you have to learn to dive first!", but are cars really so radically different that you need to spend 2 hours running laps against gimped AI to grnd out your 50th car?
For single player it's fine, because AI will scale to you (another box of worms itself) but for online they're either going to need to have a lot more stock only events, have more intermediary tiers in PI or just make upgrades free in online modes. Turn 10 will probably do none and give you some terribly tuned rentals and the option to buy XP boosts (a few months after launch once they have got their initial sales). No, I don't enjoy being this cynical and jaded, it sucks and hope I'm proven wrong and this comment ages like milk.
Hmm, good point. The 100 PI "brackets" do kind of screw with the natural growth. Like you say they can scale the AI against the player in career (which isn't a great solution imo) but for other game modes it would kind of fall apart and would lead to people detuning their cars for specific PI classes and whatnot, which would completely miss the point...
I think people like you overreact to what information that we've been given.
The PI system has been reworked and will be better than past titles. Also from what we heard, the old tuning meta for the PI just wouldn't work out for FM. FM is far more simulated in most aspects so if you're going to go to one extreme like with power, you'll be struggling to get around corners and be killing your laptimes.
If you still don't believe me, here's reworked aspects of the simulations taking place:
-Tire temps and pressures
-Tire contact patch
-Suspension and load transfer
-Weight distribution
-Fuel and tire wear
-Aerodynamics
-Track temps, rubbering in,etc.
-Part performance and interactions.
To elaborate on the last point, they mentioned that each part that can affect the sound of the car does that. That implies that they are simulating the function of the parts and how they interact with each other. That means to really maximise power, you would need to invest into that section heavily while having to deal with the stock drivetrain until level 40 or higher.
really hoping the car progression thingy not as frustrating as playing Racing Lagoon endgame where we want to max lvl all chassis, engine and body parts that we got from harder street opponents, took waaaay too long.
Tbh the bare minimum for me is be better than gt7 on release
GT7 is really not that bad... if GT7 is the lowest of the low... then get ready for disapointment... with paid dlc for new cars and tracks splitting the player base and if the career mode is 50% as good as gt7 career is, its a win for forza
@@manostororosso2364 there's a car pass at launch, but that's always been negligible compared to the amount of free cars added too.
As for paid tracks? That's straight up false. They've confirmed will be no microtransactions in this game too so if you really cared about this sorta thing it'd be a positive for forza overall.
GT7s career consists of repetitive 'races' where you can't even race, just pass a spread out field of rolling roadblocks to try and catch up to first. If the AI is as good as they claim, forzas career should be a lot more fun to actually play.
@@existentialselkath1264 so all tracks will be free? Even after a couple of years? They will not start selling track or car packs? If so thats very positive. Don't remeber where but I 'll try to find the video that was talking about car packs and track packs just to remember what he said. Also the cars that are in the deluxe edition, are they able to be purchased for the base version as well with in game points or only real money?
@@manostororosso2364 there's a car pass which will be dlc cars you have to pay real money for. I think the deluxe edition also gives you cars for free that you can already earn in game, it's admittedly vague.
I remember forza 6 had dlc packs with tracks, like the Nascar dlc, but it wasn't used in matchmaking so they stopped doing it with motorsport 7.
They've already confirmed there will be post launch support for cars and tracks, and that the only monetization would be either THE car pass, or car passes plural (I couldn't tell). Benefits of a continuous gamepass income I guess.
@@existentialselkath1264 as long as the paid cars are not op and break the online part of the game i guess we can live with less cars
I've played every Forza Motorsport except for 5 and 6. Wouldn't call 3 or 4 the best, due to how much they messed up the game's structure with the calendar and car handling, 3 being pretty understeery and 4 almost uncontrolable.
In my eyes F1&2 had the basic structure nailed down.
A complete set of different events with a variety of restrictions and formats (single races, championships, endurance). Experience unlocks more events and maybe some cars, events reward cars.
In addition to there was the difficulty system that increased payouts for turning off assists or increasing ai rating and such.
Point is they've been fucking with these systems for a while and 7 made a mockery out of them. Suddenly progression came through buying cars, the single player career wasn't fun (partially due to them overusing a lot of mediocre tracks) and arguably the best thing was the custom race creator, even with that broken AI. Multiplayer track voting took the fun out of that as well with random often being picked instead of the suggested tracks.
One good thing it did though was allowing to decline reward vehicles as the game would otherwise drown you in them.
So unless the next Forza (and screw rebooting a racing series without a story, this is FM8) starts out amazing I wouldn't hold my breath for it, cause evidence shows they won't necessarily fix stuff later. Already hearing things like using experience for car modification makes it clear that they are not on a path I care about.
It is how you said in your GT7 critique: The studio gets a lot of complicated stuff right and fails at the simple things.
Machine Learning is running on DirectML for the Series consoles
i love how, as GT's rival, Forza did everything the opposite way. it considers itself as not a racing *simulator,* but a simulation *game* and avidly game-fies things to make them interesting instead of doing like: "so, the road going McLaren F1 is more expensive than the McLaren-BMW F1 Longtail thing, so let's do that in the game as well". But on the other side, it does the "standard and premium cars", like Roflwaffle mentioned in his most recent video, using old models and not saying anything, while GT7 and Sport ditched the PS2 and PS3 models for more detailed ones made with laser-scanning and other modern techniques. Overall, from the two games, i would definetly pick Forza, because i always stated that graphics aren't as much of a deal as fun, that's why Horizon 1 is often regarded as the best Forza Horizon game, and GT7's attention to detail can't mask its horrendously flawed experience
I already have the feeling that this is the same thing then GT7.
They just put something in, for the single players, even tho, they didn‘t care about it.
I believe Motorsport 7 was better.
And to be real Forza peak was many year ago…
They just lost what thier own player base really wan‘t and only go for esport and money…
I enjoy the more "make your own game" style that forza seems to go with. Becuase I have a very particular way I got about playing racing games, so the developers just giving me a platform to enjoy my favorite type of racing in the way I want, enabling that for me, is very important to me specifically. That's why I really liked Assetto Corsa, the custom race options are great, there's tons of cars and I even modded in some of my own, which is just great. A game that would be a bit less Sim-like, more arcade-ey than assetto, with lots of options to mess around, that would be ideal of course. Still, I think for a general audience as well giving a lot of options and giving people a platform to enable players to play the game they want to play.
I thought forza moter sport was sht until I bought gran turismo 7, learnt how to drive, now forza 7 ain’t that bad
Remember the drag race experiment from Forza 7 whatever happened to that? Is there drag races in career mode, in the new Forza,you should be able to do burnouts to get them tires heated and pull up to the light tree. I remember they even had a questionnaire come out about the drag race experiment in 7, I hear nothing about.
onsome trailers had some cars that looked like drag cars
I believe they'll talk about that soon. Since it was added at the end of FM7's lifespan it would be weird to avoid.
Ah it'll all be ok. Folks getting their pantaloons in twist.
Well... Always online single player mode is a no buy from me. No matter how good your game is, if it requires a connection, it's not my game.
the fact that it still lacks offroad racing despite calling the game "motorsport" and having offroad cars, it's basically just another concrete circuit racer just like the last one, i see very little changes and innovation here to justify a sequel
I like the car EXP idea, i lost interest in the later FM games once the progression went out the window because i had way too many cars and unlimited money a couple hours in.
Dude, you don't know wrf you're talking about! It only took 2:42 seconds to figure that out, Later!
Just buying a Series S ist probably cheaper than just upgrading the graphics card for Forza let alone the whole PC xD
It might be on cloud gaming for game pass if you're in that ecosystem
I would normally recommend staying away from the S, but T10 is one company who will take the time to tweak their game. BUT you will suffer with other third-party racing titles in the future judging by my experience last gen.
@@beyond72deepsoulfulhousemixes I think it's a good solution if you're mostly on PC or PS5 and just need it for the occasional Xbox/console exclusive. As a PC player my S is just an NHL machine.
Wait, a racing game that starts a race in a grid ?
*H E R E S Y*
You can’t buy upgrades!?! That’s stupid. What if I wanna buy a car just to drive around with upgrades.
Thinking about this as a reboot. Then the CarPG aspect does sound interesting. So I’m gonna hold my final judgement until I get my hands on it.
GT's AI always been crap.
if you wouldn't start at the back its just a time trial.
why do you have the same name as the Zombies youtuber from back in the day? are you the same person?
I will buy this game, and I will not return it but I know I'm going to absolutely ducking hate the car progression system, the always online and the Playlist stuff I also hate from the horizon games. It's just too damn much. Puts too much pressure on me to game every damn day if not I'm punished because of a car I can't afford because I don't have enough of the 15 different types of in game currency to afford that ONE car I want but missed out on when you could buy it with normal money... Just go back to Motorsports 4, give us a few new tracks, a few new cars and some more Racing series and you'd be golden.
Will it support multiple screens or vr on pc? Most current racing games if not all support vr now.
20:33 - Imagine needing the requirement of "gamification" for a VIDEO GAME because a competitor VIDEO GAME is too much like real life (in an annoying way)
On the fence about this game. I hear single player isn’t any good and it’s short. Why not just replay with a different car and setup?
I enjoyed the single player mode until 7. With 7 it felt like Turn 10 just decided to copy what Codemasters was doing with the Grid & Dirt series.
I know I'm just one person, but i will not be buying it. Just from the online portion of the campaign. You should never punish the people who want to just play games due to the people who hack.
The UI is much better than the 'METRO' style we've had to endure for the past generation of Motorsport. Being stuck in the back of a poorly lit garage in FM7 with a particularly terrible UI, This new one is a welcome change, And IMO, more inline with FM3 and 4s layout.
The upgrading based on an almost skill progression of an individual car is extremely divisive. I'm reserving my own judgement til its out, Because I can definitely see how it could be terrible in practice, But I can also see how it fixes a lot of issues that have crept up in all racing games, and especially the Forza franchise. So if done well. Fantastic. If it turns out to be terrible. At least they attempted innovation, And that at the very least is worthy of praise at this point in the industry.
And it could be really good, It could be a fantatic way to force people to get to know and understand how cars drive and feel before tossing them, As well as feeding a continual dopamine hit of leveling throughout each lap. It looks like you could be banging out 2-4 car levels each lap. Which may be very satisfying.
The grid order thing is okay. But it really needs an option for actual grid qualifying.
Nurburgring is erroneously absent AGAIN. A repeat of Motorsport 5.
I also dont understand the dynamic weather not actually being dynamic in the campaign. They wont curate the difficulty but they will curate the weather despite advertising dynamic weather. I thought I remembered him saying "No two laps will ever be the same" Which in this case, couldnt be true.
The whole curating thing and not having progressive difficulty I can see both ways. I like being able to turn everything off and have a consistent challenge throughout. It would be the best of both if they set the progression of the career up to have the settings default to a certain thing for each series. And you can go in and alter them if you want. Make it harder or easier. But if you let it do its thing. You have an experience of developing those skills over the campaign.
Wait isnt the Nurburgring usually in Forza Motorsport?? It should be here too but they haven't shown it yet.
@@wolfboy20 Its a repeat of Motorsport 5. The last time they claimed to have rebuilt the engine 'from the ground up'. Which didnt have the Nurburgring til about a year later. I'd give it 2+ years this time. Due to us having so much more technology now that it somehow takes twice as long to do anything with it.
@@117johnpar Imma wait and see if they actually do that instead of speculating
Final tracks are NOT posted yet and Nurburing was leaked to be in the game
I prefer 5 and 6's UI to this being brutally honest
I wish they added a qualification session instead of this challenge the grid thing, or better, the option to choose between the qualy or the challenge
Multiplayer has a 'race weekend inspired structure' whatever that means. Presumably qualifying as challenge the grid wouldn't work when everyone wants to start 1st.
For singleplayer, qualifying is completely arbitrary anyway. Where you start is entirely up to you as you can just set the difficulty accordingly. This skips the middle step.
Personally I'm hoping free practice gives you a leaderboard of fastest laps at least so if you did want qualifying anyway you can just start in the position on the free practice leaderboard.
@@existentialselkath1264 I think they will put a mandatory practice session for a 3 or 4 lap race, if they use the best times of the practice session it will be nice
That is, in multiplayer
honestly if they went back to the region selection in the beginning of the game like fm2 it would be cool
I still don't like how the events seem to just be "complete this specific event. move onto the next"
i see absolutely no variety in progression - it seems 100% linear?
i thought the tours would be fluid and you could start the Vintage Tour for example whenever you wanted, but no it looks like you need to finish the previous events for those too. so i dont see the appeal there whatsoever, seems even more linear than the cafe menu system everyone hates so much 🤷♂
You see in the vid, the different categories all have unlocked events, but each category is linear.
I wish it was more open too, I'm not disagreeing with the criticism, but it's not quite so linear as it might seem
@@existentialselkath1264 the different categories are locked though? you can enter them to look at them but go to 2:46 or 26:26 for example and the first of the tours are locked and not available to play until you beat the required events.
@@nebuc72 I stand corrected, however Enthusiast and modern are both unlocked.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they tweak all that stuff before launch so details like that may change for the better... Or worse
Mostly, but it's not 100% linear from what I can tell. For instance, completing Built For Sport unlocks both Iconic Muscle and Super Sedans, so there is a small amount of choice, but not much. My hope is that as you complete more your options will become wider, opening outwards like a progression tree, but that remains to be seen.
@@Roflwaffle16 ahh yeah you're right, i noticed as well that the other Tours are unlocked by events early on in the first tour so its certainly not as linear as it initially seems.
am curious to see how it actually 'feels' in terms of progression though, I fear it will make the same mistake that a lot of games do (GRID 2019 being a notable one) where the career is just "do an event, hop to the next event, repeat" without there being anything cohesive to tie it together. it would be nice to say, find a car you like in a certain tour or event, and be able to take that and build it up across various events, but all the events thus far seem quite isolated and im not sure if there'll be any opportunities for that (or if the XP system is even compatible with that idea).