1.38 of the 180SX should be going public soon, you might want to give it another try. I implemented some changes I've had at the top of my head and correlated it a bit closer after with a tester. Everyone is pretty happy about the changes globally on different cars so I decided to push it to public. It should somewhat alleviate your issue of on-throttle balance. The update should be pushed via CM automatically, so just wait for that.
@@JankyDrift pushed the update, you can change the version to a lower number and restart CM to (hopefully) force the update. If not just gotta wait till the main server refreshes.
Curious as to where you got the real world data for tires. The grip luts look kind of peaky to me. Once tires let loose, you shouldn't see anything under 0.8 assuming pacejka percentage values.
@@protomor LEVEL controls grip at infinite slipratio ie: locked tires. The data is restricted and not public, based on a locked tires braking scenario. Thermal adjusted of course. The low and high temp values are based on material property changes and some butt feel. The mu .lut is based on mainly SAE 2014-01-0074 and some private data from Toyota. EDIT: Do share yours, though. There's not exactly much tire data at above 100c, and I've only seen a few up to 200c. For obvious reasons it is questionable how much you can trust the higher temps.
Thank you very much for the comparison of a car to real drifting. As someone who has never drifted in IRL this is always my #1 curiosity about a car in Assetto when I'm drifting it. I've been wondering hard if I'm "missing" something by not enjoying the Arch cars (or even Excite) and this video explained perfectly why that may be. Always looking forward to more content!
Glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to talk about excite in a future video but thus far not my favorite. They seem to have the same struggle that every low angle drift car does in this game where they snap a little unrealistically. When I was first learning I made a stock angle version of the DWG 350z and the experience was very similar, so it might just be a limit to the game engine.
@@JankyDrift i love the excite cars, so easy to drift, nothing crazy about them, just very little power but big'ish angle, 60 is not low at all. They actually feel like my drift school bmw felt, stock, with just a bit of angle, lowered, done. Veeery similar. That car surprised me how fast it was counter steering, it took me 15 minutes to get used to it. I think its about the steering rack ratio. Anyway i do love the excite cars, they work great on any track, but specially on snow ones 👌👍
I love driving Arch physics, it's the cars I end up coming back to the most. It's not because it's "just like real life", but because the approach to driving these cars, for me, is very similar to real life. When I'm driving Arch, I feel like I am working out my fundamentals and seeing just how far I can push them, even if the cars are slower. Excite 2.0 are the coolest feeling cars I've driven yet in assetto corsa, and setting the car up feels great using "real life" philosophies instead of what works in game. If you haven't tried them yet, I think they're worth a try :)
I really enjoy Arch physics, but using different tires. The detail and little things in his stuff is awesome, but the tires feel like 101a skate wheels. I've actually got a sort of litmus test for car packs now, and it's simple: Can it over rotate, and can you drive it as a normal car. I think if you can't load into PCH or LA Canyons or something and just go for a spirted cruise WITHOUT drifting much, there's something wrong with the car. Sounds strange but, and I'm sure you'll agree, my shitty drift car does just fine going say 120% the speed limit on a mountain road. It certainly doesn't blow its tires off at half throttle in 3rd, then wash across the road off throttle going 60km/h, and then yeet off a cliff.
lol at the last line... Honestly I have yet to drive a mod that can do both well (racing and drifting), and especially on the same set of tires. In real life I could probably carve a canyon on my current setup (tires included), though it'd definitely be more loose than a car tuned specifically for grip. In assetto it seems like you either have tires/physics that can drift, or ones that can grip, but I have yet to encounter any that do both well. I think I've mostly accepted that this might just be a gap that the current game engine can't bridge. Some get closer than others but none nail it 100% in terms of general physics and/or tires.
@@JankyDrift I've done that multiple times, with my car at least, open the diff up, with the proper ini files, then turn down the power to a more manageable 300hp max, and i was using adc sports tyres, but the adc semis are better of course. "carving" like a mad man, no problems at all. Also having huge lock does induce a lot of understeer, so now with a dd wheel, turn down the rotation, and use less lock on the car. I use around 35 lock max. Its about car setup not tyres.
@@JankyDrift i do used to be annoyed by that years ago, a drift cat should be able to do both, but it all depends on how far it went into the "drift space", then you need to "turn down" stuff... Again as i said, it works, and again as i said before, ac has a lot of limitations, compared to rf2 for example, did a car pack in rfactor 2, years ago, extremely difficult to make, but booooy it was good, even has support from the devs, but ruined my life, everything was affected, so i gave up, deleted everything, never wanna see it again 😂😂
@@TandemWithFlo Ha, I've been working on a custom car for myself in Assetto and multiple nights looked up at the clock and thought "how is it already 2am?!". These things can definitely consume your life.
I strongly agree with the sentiment that it's nonsense to believe that harder = more realistic. Realistic is consistency in representing real world factors. It should be intuitive to someone with real world experience.
I raced in SCCA throughout the late 80s and had a test with the Roush Trans Am team (Protofab Capri). I have both a DD wheel and a TSXW (similar to your T300). There’s very little difference between them. It’s just like Arch to claim “my car can only be appreciated with a DD wheel”. Arch is a smart guy but a bit of an elitist tool at times. He knows nothing about how an actual car feels to drive. His Yellowbird (also based on “real suspension data”) drove nothing like an old Porsche (something I have a lot of experience driving IRL). His cars are OK, but they certainly aren’t better than average, and are very much hit-or-miss. AC isn’t accurate enough to simply plug in real suspension data and expect to automatically get realistic car dynamics. It really struggles to replicate things like semi-trailing arms and De Dion tubes, etc. The best AC modders instead “design to effect” by employing real-world drivers to give them feedback. And here’s another secret: Like IRL, tires are 90% of everything anyway.
DD vs Non has been my experience as well. T300 to DD is probably a more significant upgrade (vs TSXW to DD) and I'm still not particularly blown away. I know a new Assetto game is supposed to come out in the next year or two, so I'd be interested to see if capabilities improve at all... but at the moment I don't buy into the "100% accurate data" bs, and realistically you can't claim to replicate the feel of anything without having driven it for reference. Otherwise it's just an approximation.
@@JankyDrift Does having Kohashi as a tester count? Feedback taken and noted. I will not comment on the discussions about simulation development by people who do not develop sims.
The semi-trailing (and any suspensions with appreciable antisquat) not working is due to an improper implementation of the antisquat (and to some point antilift, but not as severely). Cphys fixes that. There is absolutely no reason you would not just use the corrected kinematics and put in the right geometry points. You don't need to "design to effect". Most of the tire should be "real data" as well, although due to simply simulation limitations you need to make some concessions sometimes. Of course, the sim is missing elastokinematics, which are fairly significant on anything that is a trailing suspension, which includes 180SX rear suspension to a degree. These cars also have elastokinematic toe-in with the standard bushing setup. EDIT: To be honest, fairly significant on anything. Roadcars have about 0.30deg per 1G of toe deflection, and aero racecars might have pretty much that just at the higher Gs they pull. I've been thinking about maybe doing elastokinematics by having every link be a spring, or at least some of them. Probably really unstable at 333hz, though. Many people comment that my models with different tires are better, so I've been looking into it, but I haven't really found a simple solution even with extremely unrealistic parameters that are far out of the envelope. There is not a lot of data (read: none) on tires at high slipratios and slipangles such as when drifting so maybe my assumptions are simply not extreme enough about how the slip parameters should be modulated when at high temperatures. I think the way most people go about it is just to remove most, if not all, of the slip and thermal sensitivity, resulting in unrealistic rear grip and steady state balance but an overall better transient behavior which is more important for impressions. I'm not a fan of that as it basically removes half of the tire's dynamics, so I'd prefer to find out the right trends.
@@ArchOfficial honestly you're dedication to this sounds incredible and when we've truly reached that sweet spot with the tires then this will probably be my go to and I look forward to it. I just personally can't say this feels all there just yet but you've still got people from this channel supporting your progress
This video is gold! Very interesting to see from perpective of a guy that has some IRL experience. However those packs are kinda obsolete now :) Or lets call them classics ;) It would be really cool to hear your thoughts on some newer packs with more detalied physics modelling like: Curacao, Excite V2, hush, BDC V4. And also modern, realistic competition packs like VDC 3.0 and DCGP Season9.
Yeah I keep pushing the updated video back because it's a pain to get all the clips edited and new packs keep coming out in the meantime lol. I've got excite, BDC, an arch update, new DWG cars, etc. on my agenda. Not planning to do comp cars because I don't have a real life basis for comparison.
@@gagipro92 if you look up how to swap assetto corsa car physics you'll find tutorials, i do it for all the mods that have horrible handling to make them feel better to drive
So good to find someone who drifts both sim and irl. Ive been irl drifting for a few years now and getting my first sim this week im super bummed at how different it is, sure you cant feel inertia on a sim bit its the cars physics that are silly, you comment on tyres breaking loose is so true, irl the slip is way more progressive, also the rate to angle on sim cars is way over done, a 1000kg-1300kg car cant switch its weight and direction that fast. Btw ive been using gravy and tsujigiri cars. Keen to know what you have found to the the most realistic?
A lot of the newer DWG cars are getting more grippy, so I'd recommend giving those a shot if you haven't already. They just released a new 350z that I would even say is TOO grippy and understeers more than my actual car. Honestly it's never going to completely feel 100%, but it's not to say you aren't still improving your fine hand and throttle skills in the meantime. Usually takes me a run or two to readjust my expectations on grip when coming from a bunch of sim sessions, basically just "ah, right, need to be a little more aggressive IRL").
Completly agree with you, i heard so many good things about the Arch physics but after trying a few of his cars i have to say they really are nothing special, not bad at all dont get me wrong but also not outstanding. But here we are again, as you said yourself, lots of people who have no clue about driving in real life think just because its hard means its more realistic.
Thank you for this, I have been beating myself trying to drive this car well on a g920. I have gotten decent at it but it really requires thinking ahead and throwing the wheel preemptively to catch these wild transitions. (Changing the tires helped a lot) I was able to link the whole course my 3rd ever lap in a pretty much stock angle e36. this car is a different beast from any car irl or in game I have driven.
Did a review video a few weeks back that covered most of the popular packs - this one was at the bottom of the list. Try the new excite 2.0 cars as a decent stock-ish alternative. I have yet to drive a stock angle car in this game though that didn't suck.
Thank you for the helpful advice yet again Janky, have been trying to improve my drifting on AC and your advice has always been helpful. I do feel that Assetto Corsa is weird when it comes to being realistic cause I feel that it would be easier to drift a real car than learning to drift on AC lol 🤣, great video man.
boom! 2:08 "higher level of difficulty is more realistic but it's not." Hard, normal and easy perfectly said (i have no experience and just armchairing imo) thanks for the list and future list
I never liked arch physics. Every time a new version of the physics is released, the handling changes drastically. For many months, a car like the NSX would literally overheat the tyres in half a lap around a track like Suzuka. And it had totally unpredictable, unrecoverable oversteer. Next update, it was suddenly massively understeery but it had a good oversteering feeling. Same goes for every other car. If the data stays the same, and it’s themost realistic”, why does a version change handle like a completely different car?? Thank you so much sir 🙏🙏 had to be said and you said it. You’re the best drifting TH-camr imo. Please never change!!
I think in the end the tires make a lot bigger difference than anything else and those models tend to be what gets updated. After I put out this video for example Arch made some updates to the tire model for the 180sx to improve stability, but I haven't had a chance to test that out yet. I've heard this car on DWG tires for example handles a lot more predictably. None the less, appreciate the kind words!
its about realism and not about is it a easy drift pack or a difficult... when i drive a s14 i can easly drift it but i also can drive on the nordschleife with it... thats not possible with anyyy drift MOD in AC
Because of this thing in AC that drift cars are all for some reason super slippery. Which plainly isn't true. I dailied my drifter irl for nearly 2 years, it was as good in grip as it was in drfit.
exactly, thats what super unrealistic in sim racing, you have to make it a drift mod and when you make it a drift mod you cant drive it normaly anymore because you have no grip anymore@@baronburgamot243
I agree with this. Though I don't feel like the GG cars should be considered as realistic as the DWG or WDTS packs, The excite and arch physics do feel like they've gone for difficulty over realism.
There's definitely some goofy bs with the gravy cars, they do all sorts of weird stuff at low speeds and the amount of angle is a bit ridiculous. I find myself hot and cold on them, but they're not a bad pack to learn on from a general mechanics perspective. Basically anything you learn on them translates to DWG, WDTS, etc.. Going to expand on this in another video.
@@JankyDrift i havent been digging in to them too much but ive seen them using old v1 tires instead of the new v10 and they have wisefab steering angle (insane angle)
@@JankyDrift exactly what I used them for, very beginner friendly and extremely transferable to the other packs you mentioned. The new tsujigiri lights beta’s dropped on their patron the other day and they’ve improved massively, definitely worth a look when they eventually come out of beta 🤓
i think the car feels "harder" because of a soft suspension (you can see the whole roll during initiates and transitions), shit tyres (they are not super grippy), and small angle
What would you recommend I use as a donor for a physics swap? I found mercedes V8 W210 which is going to be my real life first drift car... But the mod I found is definitely not made for drifting simulation.... That, or my car is simply going to be terrible for drifting snd just want to lock into a slow, shallow oversteer until it spins out in real life.. Im going to weld the diff and remove all the weight I can on my real car, and its got 275 hp "officially" so more likely 210 or so to the wheels. I'm thinking a chaser or a 4 door bmw would be a similar size / weight candidate that may have drift physics already... I want to keep my power snd whatever else I can to keep it similar to my Benz, but try to copy the physics from a mod that was built with drifting in mind and not just racing, if that makes any sense. I'd appreciate sny recommendations or suggestions.. thanks and love your content!
My immediate thought is gs300 or something along those lines. Most recently I've been using swarm and nstyle physics for my personal mods but you may have to inflate power levels for both of those to get a realistic slide becuase both are super grippy and will bog with anything under 300hp. I wouldnt get married to your stock HP level, low hp doesnt translate well into this game unfortunately. Then assuming you're not going to have a full angle kit, you'll also want to play around with the controls section in the car.ini file to maybe decrease the angle on the car you're making. Low angle is another spot where assetto struggles though so I'd still aim fpr more angle than what your car actually has.
@@JankyDrift man that's actually quite reassuring in an odd way 😂 I've only ever drifted IRL on snow and mud in a jeep set to rwd and I know it's not the same thing. I only have video games and RC drift cars as a reference.. and I was like, ok I try all these drift built cars (the ones from your other video like Fumi, WDT, etc that you like the realism of) and they are challenging but absolutely something I can build skill on and I can finally link some corners with... And then I go back to the mod for my real car, and it's not even close to the same feeling. It just wants to get stuck with no control until it slowly spins itself out.. and I'm like, oh man is that really the difference between simulating a drift tube and stock suspension? But then I remember all the people who slide stock cars, and even though it is harder, it's not impossible. I'll take your advice and up the horsepower a little to maybe 275 or 300 wheel and play with lock angle. My real car, to compensate for low power for it's size, I'm going to cut weight and I also am trying some wheels I got from a 190 with spacers to keep the same offset... They fit 175s instead of the OEM 215 rears and are on a smaller rim. My theory is less grip and less rigid sidewalls could mean a slower sensation of what more power would feel like, without breaking the bank on adding power and wearing things out even more with more grip.
@@chadg6874 Glad I could help - Even if you focus on learning with the more popular packs you're still going to build the basic drift muscle memory to effectively drift any car. For your actual car, people usually run minimum of like 215s from what I've seen, and even guys with lower horsepower like miatas can slide with those. People tend to think "I want to decrease grip to make my car easier to slide" when the opposite actually tends to be true. Especially on a heavier car like yours I'd be concerned that the 175s aren't going to keep up especially on transition. I think by going so skinny on your tires youre bascially building a car thats going to be prone to snap oversteer. Think of how much weight is going to be loading up on that car as you push to either side. Food for thought, but I personally would aim for something like 215 at minimum. For reference, a lot of z guys on stock horsepower (maybe 240 wheel) are sliding with 265s in the rear.
@@JankyDrift wow, thank you for the tip! I'll stick with 215s once I burn through these. I would feel pleasantly surprised if my car ended up needing more grip lol but your comment encouraged optimism haha
@@JankyDrift I ended up using the physics from the gravy garage e36 station wagon. It feels a lot better, even without adding power. I'll play with steering angle to make it a little less forgiving, but the effect that a heavy flick has on full throttle feels about like I would expect mine to be, even though I really have no idea what that would feel like yet 😂 it takes deliberate effort to oversteer in enough to actually use all of the lock available haha
Hey, I'm still on a Logitech G25 and I must say, I find the ADC and Tando buddies car ridiculously easier to drift than the WDTS etc.. Would you say it's probably better to just stick to those car packs on a not so great wheel?
Yeah per one of the creators of tando buddies, they were essentially created for people driving logitech wheels. It'll certainly make your life easier.
Great video. Would you say it’s worth it to go from T300 (I have TX) to DD? I went from Logitech to TX but am always thinking about the next jump. More specifically, I’m interested in getting a larger wheel for my thrust master but am wondering if I should get an adapter or a new wheel base. Problem I have is now I got two wheel and pedal sets, and buying a DD base I’d have to sell the other two (which I don’t really feel like doing busy/lazy). I’m curious as to what adapter you use for your T300- I would be okay paying more for something quality that wouldn’t risk stripping the plastic internals of the screw.
I switched from t300, to moza r5, totally worth it, sooo goood, faster, smoother, versatile, but NOT necessary for sure. T300 adapter, i had a badly printed one, it broke, bought an aluminium one, indestructible obviously, with a 33cm rim, awesome stuff. Get a quick "release" ring also, you won't need the screw anymore.
Honestly I'd say the answer is subjective. Is direct drive better? Yes. You get more force feedback and faster rotation, but so far I'm not really blown away by the difference. On the alpha mini I've had to tune it a bunch because if you turn some of the settings up too high the wheel will start stuttering during counter steer. I think if I had to do it again I'd save a little more and go for the next level up like the Simagic Alpha or Moza R9. For the T300... I was using a 3D printed adapter with a 350mm wheel, which as long as you have someone print with 100% infill it's fine. The ones that break are generally printed at low infill by someone who doesn't know better. Aluminum definitely going to be more durable though. And same position as you, I still need to sell my T300 but it's a pain to get people to buy these things lol.
@@JankyDrift Thanks informative and reassuring feedback. These things r heavy af so shipping costs when selling is annoying too. What disappoints me the most about Thrustmaster tbh is the build quality. To me it’s kind of obvious they wanted to maximize profit given how thin the plastic is. Anyways, any recommendations on a rim for drifting? I know it’s subjective but I get overwhelmed by all the options available.
My favorite so far is DWG, but I believe the newer DWG cars actually pull from 1:1 so that's a complicated question lol. I personally prefer either over arch. 1:1 240 is good but I dont love the skyline (and I don't do pro cars so ignoring the lexus).
Excite cars are banging once you get used to lack of angle, havent tried or heard of this guy before, based off observation tho, I'd say it needs some different tires and some knarly tuning work.
Yeah excite is decent, I personally prefer packs with higher steering angle since that's what I drive IRL. I debated getting in-depth on suspension tuning in this video but figured the car should be able to run as-is without me having to re-engineer the alignment lol.
If you actually adjusted your expectations accordingly and compared the behavior in depth instead of just going by butt feel comparing modern wide, grippy tire build to a 90s street beater you'd notice that packs like dwg, wdts and so on are incapable of pulling off some irl techniques simply because of the parameters being botched. try it yourself, WDTS will scrub speed when you pull angle at WOT instead of accelerating. reverse entries are nigh impossible because the cars are towing an invisible parachute and hit a brick wall around 90deg of rotation. I'm not saying archs cars are perfect because they're not but they're miles ahead of anything else out there. I test drive for him most of the time so if you want to discuss the handling I'd love to do so.
The main goal of my channel thus far is to document my transition from sim to real life for anyone else interested in doing the same. Part of that is weighing in on the accuracy of things that are frequently repeated within the Assetto Drift community. One of those is that Arch physics are the most realistic for drifting... I've seen a lot of folks say Lenny's 180sx for example is super realistic, but haven't seen any of them mention that it's specifically realistic to a "90s beater" as you say. Folks are driving this car thinking it's realistic to modern day builds (with bigger angle, etc.) when it's definitely not in terms of handling, so that's where I stepped in to compare. Digging a bit deeper into my history... Drifting is absolutely a more recent hobby, but I've owned and raced a bunch of RWD cars since around 2003. My "90s" resume would include a 1989 Toyota Supra that I modified over the course of 10 years, including an eventual 2J swap. Then a 1986 Celica Supra that I ran a bunch at autocross events. In general, both of those cars were harder to get sideways and had a ton more understeer vs the 180sx in this video, but in fairness I never really drifted them outside of some parking lot power sides and donuts back in the day. As far as other packs, I will 100% agree and accept that none of them are perfect, but DWG for example let me comfortably go from tearing it up in my living room to tearing it up on an actual track without being anywhere near the level of difficulty that this 180sx is (which again is frequently touted as the most realistic drift car in Assetto). ***Edited for clarity***
@@JankyDrift >If you're building a car to go drifting tomorrow, you're building a modern day grassroots car and my Z is a common build in that regard And the 180 isn't one. Apples to oranges. What tyre do you run on your Z? 265 wide 240TW? The 180 runs something like a stretched 215 wide ~400TW. If you want to compare it to something closer to modern then the JZA80 would be a better choice since that car runs modern tire based loosely on Dunlop Direzzas. It's hosted on GitHub (archibaldmilton/Girellu) under releases -> arch cars public. Includes a script that can copy Kunos models for you and install the physics automatically. >so I think it's entirely fair for my comparison to be against a modern day drift build. It's meant to be a period accurate late 90s build. If you want a modern one to compare read above. >without being anywhere near the level of difficulty that this 180sx is Question - what CSP version have you used when driving it? 1.74 to 1.78 have a pretty nasty physics bug that makes the car super twitchy and prone to spinouts when drifting. You need to use either 1.73 or 1.79 and above. I drove them for over a year on a T300 before switching to DD (Alpha Mini) and I have absolutely no problem with them. Mind posting your FFB settings? Maybe the problem is in there.
Running CSP 1.79. The 180sx is (community) recommended pretty universally without people clarifying that it's a retro style car. I get from a functional perspective "retro" and modern are somewhat apples to oranges, but most people aren't driving this mod under the assumption that it's supposed to be a crappy handling 90s-inspired car. I run 245 squared Ironman Gen 2, looks like 380TW. So obviously some more meat on the tires I'm running but they're probably equally shitty in terms of grip characteristics lol. Thinking about going to Kendas this season which i think are 300.
I mean, it's a stock looking car with a boostup tune that doesn't even have hydro e-brake. Doesn't exactly scream modern grassroots build. But that's besides the point. Would you mind posting your FFB settings both in CM and in SimPro manager? Maybe the issue lies there because this car behaves nothing like you described for me. On a DD wheel (Alpha Mini) it pretty much drives itself, no problems going flat out either. Though to be completely fair there might be something going on with lateral grip at speed and we're currently investigating it. For the record, CSP 1.73: th-cam.com/video/Isy6udLb8OM/w-d-xo.html
If you want to send me some recommended settings I'm more than happy to give them a shot. Testing a bunch of different setups at the moment and haven't settled on anything I've 100% liked.
i just tested it myself on a t300 rs gt, my wheel doesnt have any problems with the speed itself and i drifted it well but its the car thats freaking oversteering on nearly every transition, the comp cars (like vdc/ tsuji) are so much better and its not the t300
Thanks you! Ive been arguing about this car with people and it being realistic. Yes it may be realistic to a shitty setup drift car but DWG is realistic to a good setup drift car. And people just think if its difficult that means its realistic but not in this situation
If I'm honest, I removed a line from the video essentially mentioning that most of the folks I've seen say Arch is the most realistic have zero (or very little) real life drift experience for comparison. I'm sure folks will still argue that I'm wrong though, only a matter of time lol.
It's a roadcar without an angle kit on early 2000s road tires. Also don't drive it on CSP versions 0.1.73 to 0.1.77, because those are indeed broken with Cphys and not working as intended, with the car spinning erratically due to a reference point logic error. EDIT: Severely disagree on "inaccurate data" needed to get a more realistic subjective experience, or god forbid, closer correlation. It would be an immense stretch to claim that my cars, and especially tires, have "100% accurate data", and I'm not sure who exactly is claiming that they do. Given that I changed my thermal parameters quite dramatically two times in one year, I don't think we're there yet. EDIT 2: The physics modeling in this version of the car is effectively about a year or two old. The only thing left from the old engine is the vanilla aero that I'm still using, some of the drivetrain and the basic ODE solver. It's not a "decade old game engine" strictly speaking and there's a reason almost every post-2017-or-so professional sim model runs on AC. Yes, the vanilla implementation, not some proprietary model, those are only for cool kids. Some operations run Cphys nowadays which is closer to what I'm using.
I tested on a few different CSP versions, but with the most recent including the footage from this video being on 1.79. Copying partially from another comment, but... The main goal of my channel thus far is to document my transition from sim to real life for anyone else interested in doing the same. Part of that is weighing in on the accuracy of things that are frequently repeated within the Assetto Drift community. One of those being how often I see Lennys 180sx (and arch in general) talked about as the most realistic mod in the drifting community without any sort of disclaimer of "well, actually it's 'subjectively' MOST realistic to a retro drift car with crappy tires". While I don't fully understand the "it's a roadcar" comment as that could be said for 99% of cars you see at grassroots drift events... If someone is going to build a drift car they're obviously going to be on modern day tires, and most likely running an angle kit. A majority of people looking for "realistic" drift mods at this point have modern day builds in mind, so that's what my feedback (i.e. this video) is based upon. I'm not trying to argue, I'm not trying to trash your work, and I don't know nearly enough about creating mods to get into deep conversations about the specifics or tire modelling. I just know that people frequently recommend this car for the most realistic experience without any such disclaimer to the era or type of car it represents (and not saying said statements came from you).
Its not about hard drift car medium drift car and easy !! its about realistic one and the one you liking are probaly excusing eeevery mistake that would kick you out in real life.... thats why people like arches phyics it atleast doesnt alow you to do what ever you want withouth spinning out or anything... you acutaly have suspensions tyres grip and tracktionloss...
The T300 is fine. DD definitely makes like easier because it does have faster rotation speed (and is bit more comparable to a real life car), but my first year or drifting in real life was straight from the T300. If you don't do T300 I generally recommend MOZA R9 or Simagic Alpha Mini as a starting point for DD.
@@JankyDrift i really like to drive cars with a low steering angle, but i kinda fear the t300 might not be enough? Btw have u played beamng? u should bring some beamng action to the channel
If you started in real life, I don't know that you'll ever find anything that feels super close. My favorite so far has been the old DWG 2.0 Z which I though handled a lot like my setup.
Whew, you gave me hopes, i thought something is wrong with me, cause i lay down pretty good on my z and literally lift for transition and go, in the freaking game i have to use so much clutch that i was thinking if I drive like that real life i will be replacing clutch every event
Thing is... I don't know how the communication between the drifting community and the ac devs is nowadays.... But when I started drifting, and making mods and all that, "back in the day"... 2014-2015 max, there was a lot of communication with the devs, a lot of back and forth, a lot of same "agree to disagree" stuff 😉, but the concensus, after a few years of making mods in ac, not being able to convince the devs, that they are wrong..... (They were italian, can't expect much 🤣), is that the physics engine in ac does NOT work with real life data, pretty much never. I've been saying this to people for a long time. I've been "intimate" with the devs, a lot and a lot of my friends, it doesn't work that way. You gotta improvise, theres no way around it. Either inertia or suspension geometries, specially the drift ones, they just collapse most of the time, mostly at full lock, if you use real life data down to millimeters. I stopped trying to explain, its useless. Mayne this video will help more. I don't even care anymore, i just enjoy my drifting and be done with it.
I give props to anyone who puts mods together for Assetto because it's a ton of time and detail. I've only been on the PC version for 3 or so years so I don't know what the mods looked like "back in the day" lol, but these days there are a bunch that do a decent job at capturing a realistic driving experience. But yeah, real data unfortunately doesn't seem to mean real physics.
At some point, when doing rf2 mods, i found an older gentleman, from Germany, apparently some type of engineer, and i saw he was working on a piece of software to visualize in animated 3d, a chassis. Basically he made that tool, so you can import the data file from a car into it, and it would visualize everything in a wire frame style, with the chassis represented in a 3d animation, you control the thing with the actual wheel and pedals. I used it to visualize how the suspension geometry acts and works, from lock to lock and through bumps and all that, and where it collapses if it does... It was genius. It was sooo complex, had so many things in it. Nuts. Good times.... I hate that period 😂😂
@@JankyDrift I'd sure be interested in this as well as I'm quite undecided on Beam's tarmac physics but I can't quite put my finger on what specifically feels 'off' about it.
@@JankyDrift cool looking forward to it. IMO, it's quite decent, but you need to modify the stock cars a bit - especially the vanilla "Drift" are very weird and spin too easily.
I dont think the physics on this 180sx are the most realistic one cause you have the same problem as always you dont feel the front tyres and suspension at all but atleast it hasnt the efn understeer from wdts where you cant drive normal..... but im def not spinning out that much with archs physics of course only if i do the mistakes i would also spin out in real life of course you can increase the angle and you can angle to the universe but than again there is almost no skill needed to drive anymore.
My irl street supra with modded knuckles drifts waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than lennys "drift" 180sx and i would absolutely not call it realistic, difficult yes but realistic NO!
@@JankyDrift did you have the fan on all the time? or just when it 'overheats'? it's a known problem with these bases (I have one myself) and if you're using a lower ffb around 40-50% you can get away with setting the fan to run at 100% all the time. higher ffbs will eventually need a fan upgrade / better vents
@@purplejw Longer version of the story: I originally had the fan running only when needed which between the full sized wheel and the FFB being cranked worked well for 3+ years (plus however long the PO had it since I bought it lightly used). Before I replaced it I upgraded the fan to noctua and set it to always-on which did seem to help but I had already done the mental gymnastics to justify upgrading to a DD at that point lol. Still 100% recommend the T300 as an entry level wheel though. Alpha Mini really isn't as revolutionary as people make it out to be, which I can more confidently say now that I own one.
@@JankyDrift Interesting that the ffb still started to fade with those upgrades, I guess the wheel was getting tired lol. Definitely agree with the t300 as a starter wheel, each time I see someone thinking about going for a logi wheel I do my best to convince them to spend just a bit more for a way better experience. I'm actually planning on getting an alpha mini this year, mainly for the higher wheel rotation speed.
@@JankyDrift Highly recommend the TSXW. They sorted out the cooling issue, I’ve had one since 2018 and it feels new despite well over 1000 hours driving time. My CSL DD is no better (worse in some ways due to the usual DD weird shit) and I sold my Simucube because it was a total bitch to set up. The TSXW otoh just *works*.
Then again, you show in this video drifting a 350z vs a S13.... NA 330 hp vs turbo simulated horses... no wonder you have to learn how to "drift again" like its two different worlds
If you can drift, you can drift. Instructors jump into random cars and drift all the time at events. Some cars are set up better or worse than others but the skillset is the same whether it's an s13 or Z33. The closest thing I've found to drifting Arch IRL is drifting through puddles on a completely soaked track.
this sounds like excite cars. everyone raves about them but i find them super unrealistic. immpossible to drive them normally. real cars aernt like that
If you're talking about the recently updated version of excite, make sure you have extended physics turned on for them. If you don't, they drive especially bad. Excite actually runs the same physics as Arch but with different tires, so it's funny you say that.
Thanks for these interesting videos on drifting in a sim vs. real life! I'd be very curious to hear what you think of drifting in BeamNG and in GTA V (with mods to make it more realistic, as suggested in this tutorial th-cam.com/video/OoqY-WzNRiU/w-d-xo.html ), as compared to Assetto Corsa and real life!
1.38 of the 180SX should be going public soon, you might want to give it another try. I implemented some changes I've had at the top of my head and correlated it a bit closer after with a tester. Everyone is pretty happy about the changes globally on different cars so I decided to push it to public. It should somewhat alleviate your issue of on-throttle balance.
The update should be pushed via CM automatically, so just wait for that.
Sounds good - I'll give it another shot once the update comes through.
@@JankyDrift Thanks for reminding me, because my guy in charge of shipping updates forgot to do it. Should be up soon.
@@JankyDrift pushed the update, you can change the version to a lower number and restart CM to (hopefully) force the update. If not just gotta wait till the main server refreshes.
Curious as to where you got the real world data for tires. The grip luts look kind of peaky to me. Once tires let loose, you shouldn't see anything under 0.8 assuming pacejka percentage values.
@@protomor LEVEL controls grip at infinite slipratio ie: locked tires. The data is restricted and not public, based on a locked tires braking scenario. Thermal adjusted of course.
The low and high temp values are based on material property changes and some butt feel.
The mu .lut is based on mainly SAE 2014-01-0074 and some private data from Toyota.
EDIT: Do share yours, though. There's not exactly much tire data at above 100c, and I've only seen a few up to 200c. For obvious reasons it is questionable how much you can trust the higher temps.
Thank you very much for the comparison of a car to real drifting. As someone who has never drifted in IRL this is always my #1 curiosity about a car in Assetto when I'm drifting it. I've been wondering hard if I'm "missing" something by not enjoying the Arch cars (or even Excite) and this video explained perfectly why that may be. Always looking forward to more content!
Glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to talk about excite in a future video but thus far not my favorite. They seem to have the same struggle that every low angle drift car does in this game where they snap a little unrealistically. When I was first learning I made a stock angle version of the DWG 350z and the experience was very similar, so it might just be a limit to the game engine.
@@JankyDrift i love the excite cars, so easy to drift, nothing crazy about them, just very little power but big'ish angle, 60 is not low at all. They actually feel like my drift school bmw felt, stock, with just a bit of angle, lowered, done. Veeery similar. That car surprised me how fast it was counter steering, it took me 15 minutes to get used to it. I think its about the steering rack ratio. Anyway i do love the excite cars, they work great on any track, but specially on snow ones 👌👍
I love driving Arch physics, it's the cars I end up coming back to the most. It's not because it's "just like real life", but because the approach to driving these cars, for me, is very similar to real life. When I'm driving Arch, I feel like I am working out my fundamentals and seeing just how far I can push them, even if the cars are slower. Excite 2.0 are the coolest feeling cars I've driven yet in assetto corsa, and setting the car up feels great using "real life" philosophies instead of what works in game. If you haven't tried them yet, I think they're worth a try :)
I really enjoy Arch physics, but using different tires. The detail and little things in his stuff is awesome, but the tires feel like 101a skate wheels.
I've actually got a sort of litmus test for car packs now, and it's simple: Can it over rotate, and can you drive it as a normal car. I think if you can't load into PCH or LA Canyons or something and just go for a spirted cruise WITHOUT drifting much, there's something wrong with the car. Sounds strange but, and I'm sure you'll agree, my shitty drift car does just fine going say 120% the speed limit on a mountain road. It certainly doesn't blow its tires off at half throttle in 3rd, then wash across the road off throttle going 60km/h, and then yeet off a cliff.
lol at the last line... Honestly I have yet to drive a mod that can do both well (racing and drifting), and especially on the same set of tires. In real life I could probably carve a canyon on my current setup (tires included), though it'd definitely be more loose than a car tuned specifically for grip.
In assetto it seems like you either have tires/physics that can drift, or ones that can grip, but I have yet to encounter any that do both well. I think I've mostly accepted that this might just be a gap that the current game engine can't bridge. Some get closer than others but none nail it 100% in terms of general physics and/or tires.
@@JankyDrift I've done that multiple times, with my car at least, open the diff up, with the proper ini files, then turn down the power to a more manageable 300hp max, and i was using adc sports tyres, but the adc semis are better of course. "carving" like a mad man, no problems at all. Also having huge lock does induce a lot of understeer, so now with a dd wheel, turn down the rotation, and use less lock on the car. I use around 35 lock max. Its about car setup not tyres.
@@JankyDrift i do used to be annoyed by that years ago, a drift cat should be able to do both, but it all depends on how far it went into the "drift space", then you need to "turn down" stuff... Again as i said, it works, and again as i said before, ac has a lot of limitations, compared to rf2 for example, did a car pack in rfactor 2, years ago, extremely difficult to make, but booooy it was good, even has support from the devs, but ruined my life, everything was affected, so i gave up, deleted everything, never wanna see it again 😂😂
@@TandemWithFlo Ha, I've been working on a custom car for myself in Assetto and multiple nights looked up at the clock and thought "how is it already 2am?!". These things can definitely consume your life.
@@JankyDrift oooh yeah. I would not get into it. My cat is made and perfected over a 5 years span 😂😂
NO WAY is that Lanier Raceplex. I love seeing people into drifting in my area. Love your videos and love your channel.
I strongly agree with the sentiment that it's nonsense to believe that harder = more realistic. Realistic is consistency in representing real world factors. It should be intuitive to someone with real world experience.
I raced in SCCA throughout the late 80s and had a test with the Roush Trans Am team (Protofab Capri). I have both a DD wheel and a TSXW (similar to your T300). There’s very little difference between them. It’s just like Arch to claim “my car can only be appreciated with a DD wheel”. Arch is a smart guy but a bit of an elitist tool at times. He knows nothing about how an actual car feels to drive. His Yellowbird (also based on “real suspension data”) drove nothing like an old Porsche (something I have a lot of experience driving IRL). His cars are OK, but they certainly aren’t better than average, and are very much hit-or-miss. AC isn’t accurate enough to simply plug in real suspension data and expect to automatically get realistic car dynamics. It really struggles to replicate things like semi-trailing arms and De Dion tubes, etc. The best AC modders instead “design to effect” by employing real-world drivers to give them feedback. And here’s another secret: Like IRL, tires are 90% of everything anyway.
DD vs Non has been my experience as well. T300 to DD is probably a more significant upgrade (vs TSXW to DD) and I'm still not particularly blown away.
I know a new Assetto game is supposed to come out in the next year or two, so I'd be interested to see if capabilities improve at all... but at the moment I don't buy into the "100% accurate data" bs, and realistically you can't claim to replicate the feel of anything without having driven it for reference. Otherwise it's just an approximation.
@@JankyDrift amin.
@@JankyDrift Does having Kohashi as a tester count?
Feedback taken and noted. I will not comment on the discussions about simulation development by people who do not develop sims.
The semi-trailing (and any suspensions with appreciable antisquat) not working is due to an improper implementation of the antisquat (and to some point antilift, but not as severely).
Cphys fixes that. There is absolutely no reason you would not just use the corrected kinematics and put in the right geometry points. You don't need to "design to effect". Most of the tire should be "real data" as well, although due to simply simulation limitations you need to make some concessions sometimes.
Of course, the sim is missing elastokinematics, which are fairly significant on anything that is a trailing suspension, which includes 180SX rear suspension to a degree. These cars also have elastokinematic toe-in with the standard bushing setup. EDIT: To be honest, fairly significant on anything. Roadcars have about 0.30deg per 1G of toe deflection, and aero racecars might have pretty much that just at the higher Gs they pull. I've been thinking about maybe doing elastokinematics by having every link be a spring, or at least some of them. Probably really unstable at 333hz, though.
Many people comment that my models with different tires are better, so I've been looking into it, but I haven't really found a simple solution even with extremely unrealistic parameters that are far out of the envelope. There is not a lot of data (read: none) on tires at high slipratios and slipangles such as when drifting so maybe my assumptions are simply not extreme enough about how the slip parameters should be modulated when at high temperatures.
I think the way most people go about it is just to remove most, if not all, of the slip and thermal sensitivity, resulting in unrealistic rear grip and steady state balance but an overall better transient behavior which is more important for impressions. I'm not a fan of that as it basically removes half of the tire's dynamics, so I'd prefer to find out the right trends.
@@ArchOfficial honestly you're dedication to this sounds incredible and when we've truly reached that sweet spot with the tires then this will probably be my go to and I look forward to it. I just personally can't say this feels all there just yet but you've still got people from this channel supporting your progress
This video is gold! Very interesting to see from perpective of a guy that has some IRL experience.
However those packs are kinda obsolete now :) Or lets call them classics ;)
It would be really cool to hear your thoughts on some newer packs with more detalied physics modelling like: Curacao, Excite V2, hush, BDC V4.
And also modern, realistic competition packs like VDC 3.0 and DCGP Season9.
Yeah I keep pushing the updated video back because it's a pain to get all the clips edited and new packs keep coming out in the meantime lol. I've got excite, BDC, an arch update, new DWG cars, etc. on my agenda. Not planning to do comp cars because I don't have a real life basis for comparison.
@@JankyDrift Those some some fresh packs man. Subscribed and waiting for your take on them 👍🏼👍🏼
I really like Arch physics especially with the CSL DD I just bought. Friends and I threw some Arch physics on an E36 and E46 and it’s just really fun
Is it an available mod that you can share or explain how to do it?
@@gagipro92 if you look up how to swap assetto corsa car physics you'll find tutorials, i do it for all the mods that have horrible handling to make them feel better to drive
@@gagipro92 Eventually
So good to find someone who drifts both sim and irl. Ive been irl drifting for a few years now and getting my first sim this week im super bummed at how different it is, sure you cant feel inertia on a sim bit its the cars physics that are silly, you comment on tyres breaking loose is so true, irl the slip is way more progressive, also the rate to angle on sim cars is way over done, a 1000kg-1300kg car cant switch its weight and direction that fast. Btw ive been using gravy and tsujigiri cars. Keen to know what you have found to the the most realistic?
A lot of the newer DWG cars are getting more grippy, so I'd recommend giving those a shot if you haven't already. They just released a new 350z that I would even say is TOO grippy and understeers more than my actual car. Honestly it's never going to completely feel 100%, but it's not to say you aren't still improving your fine hand and throttle skills in the meantime. Usually takes me a run or two to readjust my expectations on grip when coming from a bunch of sim sessions, basically just "ah, right, need to be a little more aggressive IRL").
Completly agree with you, i heard so many good things about the Arch physics but after trying a few of his cars i have to say they really are nothing special, not bad at all dont get me wrong but also not outstanding. But here we are again, as you said yourself, lots of people who have no clue about driving in real life think just because its hard means its more realistic.
Thank you for this, I have been beating myself trying to drive this car well on a g920. I have gotten decent at it but it really requires thinking ahead and throwing the wheel preemptively to catch these wild transitions. (Changing the tires helped a lot)
I was able to link the whole course my 3rd ever lap in a pretty much stock angle e36. this car is a different beast from any car irl or in game I have driven.
Did a review video a few weeks back that covered most of the popular packs - this one was at the bottom of the list. Try the new excite 2.0 cars as a decent stock-ish alternative. I have yet to drive a stock angle car in this game though that didn't suck.
@@JankyDrift I have been driving and LOVING the excite v2 cars. So much fun to drive with some very minor tweaks.
I'm on G29 and Arch's Physics are another whole level, but with some tunning, is so aweasome!
Thank you for the helpful advice yet again Janky, have been trying to improve my drifting on AC and your advice has always been helpful. I do feel that Assetto Corsa is weird when it comes to being realistic cause I feel that it would be easier to drift a real car than learning to drift on AC lol 🤣, great video man.
boom! 2:08 "higher level of difficulty is more realistic but it's not." Hard, normal and easy perfectly said (i have no experience and just armchairing imo) thanks for the list and future list
I never liked arch physics. Every time a new version of the physics is released, the handling changes drastically. For many months, a car like the NSX would literally overheat the tyres in half a lap around a track like Suzuka. And it had totally unpredictable, unrecoverable oversteer. Next update, it was suddenly massively understeery but it had a good oversteering feeling. Same goes for every other car. If the data stays the same, and it’s themost realistic”, why does a version change handle like a completely different car??
Thank you so much sir 🙏🙏 had to be said and you said it. You’re the best drifting TH-camr imo. Please never change!!
I think in the end the tires make a lot bigger difference than anything else and those models tend to be what gets updated. After I put out this video for example Arch made some updates to the tire model for the 180sx to improve stability, but I haven't had a chance to test that out yet. I've heard this car on DWG tires for example handles a lot more predictably.
None the less, appreciate the kind words!
❤ finally a vid on arch physics
ooooooooooooo how bout lenny's 180 with some dwg or simsquad OR tsujigiri tyres? The result of that would be very interesting
I've heard with different tires it's pretty good, haven't tried it personally.
Dont know why some people hate Arch Physics, tho the visuals of the mod are in another level
This ready depends on you’re cars I’ve been in cars that I wouldn’t give more than 30% or the car would spin
its about realism and not about is it a easy drift pack or a difficult... when i drive a s14 i can easly drift it but i also can drive on the nordschleife with it... thats not possible with anyyy drift MOD in AC
Because of this thing in AC that drift cars are all for some reason super slippery. Which plainly isn't true. I dailied my drifter irl for nearly 2 years, it was as good in grip as it was in drfit.
exactly, thats what super unrealistic in sim racing, you have to make it a drift mod and when you make it a drift mod you cant drive it normaly anymore because you have no grip anymore@@baronburgamot243
I agree with this. Though I don't feel like the GG cars should be considered as realistic as the DWG or WDTS packs, The excite and arch physics do feel like they've gone for difficulty over realism.
There's definitely some goofy bs with the gravy cars, they do all sorts of weird stuff at low speeds and the amount of angle is a bit ridiculous. I find myself hot and cold on them, but they're not a bad pack to learn on from a general mechanics perspective.
Basically anything you learn on them translates to DWG, WDTS, etc.. Going to expand on this in another video.
@@JankyDrift i havent been digging in to them too much but ive seen them using old v1 tires instead of the new v10 and they have wisefab steering angle (insane angle)
@@JankyDrift exactly what I used them for, very beginner friendly and extremely transferable to the other packs you mentioned. The new tsujigiri lights beta’s dropped on their patron the other day and they’ve improved massively, definitely worth a look when they eventually come out of beta 🤓
I always loved the SDC carpack for drifting but it's yrs old and not used anymore :(.
I was wondering, What is a realistic NM and FFB number to get a similar to feel to a real life drift car?
Difficult question to answer. The alpha mini I'm currently running hits 10nm I believe, which feels pretty realistic.
i think the car feels "harder" because of a soft suspension (you can see the whole roll during initiates and transitions), shit tyres (they are not super grippy), and small angle
What would you recommend I use as a donor for a physics swap? I found mercedes V8 W210 which is going to be my real life first drift car... But the mod I found is definitely not made for drifting simulation.... That, or my car is simply going to be terrible for drifting snd just want to lock into a slow, shallow oversteer until it spins out in real life.. Im going to weld the diff and remove all the weight I can on my real car, and its got 275 hp "officially" so more likely 210 or so to the wheels. I'm thinking a chaser or a 4 door bmw would be a similar size / weight candidate that may have drift physics already... I want to keep my power snd whatever else I can to keep it similar to my Benz, but try to copy the physics from a mod that was built with drifting in mind and not just racing, if that makes any sense. I'd appreciate sny recommendations or suggestions.. thanks and love your content!
My immediate thought is gs300 or something along those lines. Most recently I've been using swarm and nstyle physics for my personal mods but you may have to inflate power levels for both of those to get a realistic slide becuase both are super grippy and will bog with anything under 300hp. I wouldnt get married to your stock HP level, low hp doesnt translate well into this game unfortunately.
Then assuming you're not going to have a full angle kit, you'll also want to play around with the controls section in the car.ini file to maybe decrease the angle on the car you're making. Low angle is another spot where assetto struggles though so I'd still aim fpr more angle than what your car actually has.
@@JankyDrift man that's actually quite reassuring in an odd way 😂 I've only ever drifted IRL on snow and mud in a jeep set to rwd and I know it's not the same thing. I only have video games and RC drift cars as a reference.. and I was like, ok I try all these drift built cars (the ones from your other video like Fumi, WDT, etc that you like the realism of) and they are challenging but absolutely something I can build skill on and I can finally link some corners with... And then I go back to the mod for my real car, and it's not even close to the same feeling. It just wants to get stuck with no control until it slowly spins itself out.. and I'm like, oh man is that really the difference between simulating a drift tube and stock suspension? But then I remember all the people who slide stock cars, and even though it is harder, it's not impossible. I'll take your advice and up the horsepower a little to maybe 275 or 300 wheel and play with lock angle. My real car, to compensate for low power for it's size, I'm going to cut weight and I also am trying some wheels I got from a 190 with spacers to keep the same offset... They fit 175s instead of the OEM 215 rears and are on a smaller rim. My theory is less grip and less rigid sidewalls could mean a slower sensation of what more power would feel like, without breaking the bank on adding power and wearing things out even more with more grip.
@@chadg6874 Glad I could help - Even if you focus on learning with the more popular packs you're still going to build the basic drift muscle memory to effectively drift any car. For your actual car, people usually run minimum of like 215s from what I've seen, and even guys with lower horsepower like miatas can slide with those. People tend to think "I want to decrease grip to make my car easier to slide" when the opposite actually tends to be true. Especially on a heavier car like yours I'd be concerned that the 175s aren't going to keep up especially on transition. I think by going so skinny on your tires youre bascially building a car thats going to be prone to snap oversteer. Think of how much weight is going to be loading up on that car as you push to either side. Food for thought, but I personally would aim for something like 215 at minimum. For reference, a lot of z guys on stock horsepower (maybe 240 wheel) are sliding with 265s in the rear.
@@JankyDrift wow, thank you for the tip! I'll stick with 215s once I burn through these. I would feel pleasantly surprised if my car ended up needing more grip lol but your comment encouraged optimism haha
@@JankyDrift I ended up using the physics from the gravy garage e36 station wagon. It feels a lot better, even without adding power. I'll play with steering angle to make it a little less forgiving, but the effect that a heavy flick has on full throttle feels about like I would expect mine to be, even though I really have no idea what that would feel like yet 😂 it takes deliberate effort to oversteer in enough to actually use all of the lock available haha
Hey, I'm still on a Logitech G25 and I must say, I find the ADC and Tando buddies car ridiculously easier to drift than the WDTS etc.. Would you say it's probably better to just stick to those car packs on a not so great wheel?
Yeah per one of the creators of tando buddies, they were essentially created for people driving logitech wheels. It'll certainly make your life easier.
Great video. Would you say it’s worth it to go from T300 (I have TX) to DD? I went from Logitech to TX but am always thinking about the next jump. More specifically, I’m interested in getting a larger wheel for my thrust master but am wondering if I should get an adapter or a new wheel base. Problem I have is now I got two wheel and pedal sets, and buying a DD base I’d have to sell the other two (which I don’t really feel like doing busy/lazy). I’m curious as to what adapter you use for your T300- I would be okay paying more for something quality that wouldn’t risk stripping the plastic internals of the screw.
I switched from t300, to moza r5, totally worth it, sooo goood, faster, smoother, versatile, but NOT necessary for sure.
T300 adapter, i had a badly printed one, it broke, bought an aluminium one, indestructible obviously, with a 33cm rim, awesome stuff. Get a quick "release" ring also, you won't need the screw anymore.
@@TandemWithFlo thanks for the feedback! Which rim did you get?
@@profitpluto any rim, whatever you like. Cheap ones are fine. If you like the finish.
Honestly I'd say the answer is subjective. Is direct drive better? Yes. You get more force feedback and faster rotation, but so far I'm not really blown away by the difference. On the alpha mini I've had to tune it a bunch because if you turn some of the settings up too high the wheel will start stuttering during counter steer. I think if I had to do it again I'd save a little more and go for the next level up like the Simagic Alpha or Moza R9.
For the T300... I was using a 3D printed adapter with a 350mm wheel, which as long as you have someone print with 100% infill it's fine. The ones that break are generally printed at low infill by someone who doesn't know better. Aluminum definitely going to be more durable though.
And same position as you, I still need to sell my T300 but it's a pain to get people to buy these things lol.
@@JankyDrift Thanks informative and reassuring feedback. These things r heavy af so shipping costs when selling is annoying too. What disappoints me the most about Thrustmaster tbh is the build quality. To me it’s kind of obvious they wanted to maximize profit given how thin the plastic is.
Anyways, any recommendations on a rim for drifting? I know it’s subjective but I get overwhelmed by all the options available.
So if you were to compare Deathwish, Sim Squad 1:1, and arch, which would you say is the most realistic overall?
My favorite so far is DWG, but I believe the newer DWG cars actually pull from 1:1 so that's a complicated question lol. I personally prefer either over arch. 1:1 240 is good but I dont love the skyline (and I don't do pro cars so ignoring the lexus).
Excite cars are banging once you get used to lack of angle, havent tried or heard of this guy before, based off observation tho, I'd say it needs some different tires and some knarly tuning work.
Yeah excite is decent, I personally prefer packs with higher steering angle since that's what I drive IRL. I debated getting in-depth on suspension tuning in this video but figured the car should be able to run as-is without me having to re-engineer the alignment lol.
If you actually adjusted your expectations accordingly and compared the behavior in depth instead of just going by butt feel comparing modern wide, grippy tire build to a 90s street beater you'd notice that packs like dwg, wdts and so on are incapable of pulling off some irl techniques simply because of the parameters being botched.
try it yourself, WDTS will scrub speed when you pull angle at WOT instead of accelerating. reverse entries are nigh impossible because the cars are towing an invisible parachute and hit a brick wall around 90deg of rotation.
I'm not saying archs cars are perfect because they're not but they're miles ahead of anything else out there. I test drive for him most of the time so if you want to discuss the handling I'd love to do so.
The main goal of my channel thus far is to document my transition from sim to real life for anyone else interested in doing the same. Part of that is weighing in on the accuracy of things that are frequently repeated within the Assetto Drift community.
One of those is that Arch physics are the most realistic for drifting... I've seen a lot of folks say Lenny's 180sx for example is super realistic, but haven't seen any of them mention that it's specifically realistic to a "90s beater" as you say. Folks are driving this car thinking it's realistic to modern day builds (with bigger angle, etc.) when it's definitely not in terms of handling, so that's where I stepped in to compare.
Digging a bit deeper into my history... Drifting is absolutely a more recent hobby, but I've owned and raced a bunch of RWD cars since around 2003. My "90s" resume would include a 1989 Toyota Supra that I modified over the course of 10 years, including an eventual 2J swap. Then a 1986 Celica Supra that I ran a bunch at autocross events. In general, both of those cars were harder to get sideways and had a ton more understeer vs the 180sx in this video, but in fairness I never really drifted them outside of some parking lot power sides and donuts back in the day.
As far as other packs, I will 100% agree and accept that none of them are perfect, but DWG for example let me comfortably go from tearing it up in my living room to tearing it up on an actual track without being anywhere near the level of difficulty that this 180sx is (which again is frequently touted as the most realistic drift car in Assetto).
***Edited for clarity***
@@JankyDrift
>If you're building a car to go drifting tomorrow, you're building a modern day grassroots car and my Z is a common build in that regard
And the 180 isn't one. Apples to oranges.
What tyre do you run on your Z? 265 wide 240TW? The 180 runs something like a stretched 215 wide ~400TW.
If you want to compare it to something closer to modern then the JZA80 would be a better choice since that car runs modern tire based loosely on Dunlop Direzzas. It's hosted on GitHub (archibaldmilton/Girellu) under releases -> arch cars public. Includes a script that can copy Kunos models for you and install the physics automatically.
>so I think it's entirely fair for my comparison to be against a modern day drift build.
It's meant to be a period accurate late 90s build. If you want a modern one to compare read above.
>without being anywhere near the level of difficulty that this 180sx is
Question - what CSP version have you used when driving it? 1.74 to 1.78 have a pretty nasty physics bug that makes the car super twitchy and prone to spinouts when drifting.
You need to use either 1.73 or 1.79 and above.
I drove them for over a year on a T300 before switching to DD (Alpha Mini) and I have absolutely no problem with them. Mind posting your FFB settings? Maybe the problem is in there.
Running CSP 1.79. The 180sx is (community) recommended pretty universally without people clarifying that it's a retro style car. I get from a functional perspective "retro" and modern are somewhat apples to oranges, but most people aren't driving this mod under the assumption that it's supposed to be a crappy handling 90s-inspired car.
I run 245 squared Ironman Gen 2, looks like 380TW. So obviously some more meat on the tires I'm running but they're probably equally shitty in terms of grip characteristics lol. Thinking about going to Kendas this season which i think are 300.
I mean, it's a stock looking car with a boostup tune that doesn't even have hydro e-brake. Doesn't exactly scream modern grassroots build. But that's besides the point.
Would you mind posting your FFB settings both in CM and in SimPro manager? Maybe the issue lies there because this car behaves nothing like you described for me. On a DD wheel (Alpha Mini) it pretty much drives itself, no problems going flat out either. Though to be completely fair there might be something going on with lateral grip at speed and we're currently investigating it.
For the record, CSP 1.73: th-cam.com/video/Isy6udLb8OM/w-d-xo.html
If you want to send me some recommended settings I'm more than happy to give them a shot. Testing a bunch of different setups at the moment and haven't settled on anything I've 100% liked.
i just tested it myself on a t300 rs gt, my wheel doesnt have any problems with the speed itself and i drifted it well but its the car thats freaking oversteering on nearly every transition, the comp cars (like vdc/ tsuji) are so much better and its not the t300
Yeah the extra rotation speed with DD helps catch the rear but agreed that the T300 isn't necessarily the problem here.
Thanks you! Ive been arguing about this car with people and it being realistic. Yes it may be realistic to a shitty setup drift car but DWG is realistic to a good setup drift car. And people just think if its difficult that means its realistic but not in this situation
If I'm honest, I removed a line from the video essentially mentioning that most of the folks I've seen say Arch is the most realistic have zero (or very little) real life drift experience for comparison. I'm sure folks will still argue that I'm wrong though, only a matter of time lol.
It's a roadcar without an angle kit on early 2000s road tires. Also don't drive it on CSP versions 0.1.73 to 0.1.77, because those are indeed broken with Cphys and not working as intended, with the car spinning erratically due to a reference point logic error.
EDIT: Severely disagree on "inaccurate data" needed to get a more realistic subjective experience, or god forbid, closer correlation. It would be an immense stretch to claim that my cars, and especially tires, have "100% accurate data", and I'm not sure who exactly is claiming that they do. Given that I changed my thermal parameters quite dramatically two times in one year, I don't think we're there yet.
EDIT 2: The physics modeling in this version of the car is effectively about a year or two old. The only thing left from the old engine is the vanilla aero that I'm still using, some of the drivetrain and the basic ODE solver. It's not a "decade old game engine" strictly speaking and there's a reason almost every post-2017-or-so professional sim model runs on AC. Yes, the vanilla implementation, not some proprietary model, those are only for cool kids. Some operations run Cphys nowadays which is closer to what I'm using.
I tested on a few different CSP versions, but with the most recent including the footage from this video being on 1.79.
Copying partially from another comment, but... The main goal of my channel thus far is to document my transition from sim to real life for anyone else interested in doing the same. Part of that is weighing in on the accuracy of things that are frequently repeated within the Assetto Drift community. One of those being how often I see Lennys 180sx (and arch in general) talked about as the most realistic mod in the drifting community without any sort of disclaimer of "well, actually it's 'subjectively' MOST realistic to a retro drift car with crappy tires".
While I don't fully understand the "it's a roadcar" comment as that could be said for 99% of cars you see at grassroots drift events... If someone is going to build a drift car they're obviously going to be on modern day tires, and most likely running an angle kit. A majority of people looking for "realistic" drift mods at this point have modern day builds in mind, so that's what my feedback (i.e. this video) is based upon.
I'm not trying to argue, I'm not trying to trash your work, and I don't know nearly enough about creating mods to get into deep conversations about the specifics or tire modelling. I just know that people frequently recommend this car for the most realistic experience without any such disclaimer to the era or type of car it represents (and not saying said statements came from you).
Its not about hard drift car medium drift car and easy !! its about realistic one and the one you liking are probaly excusing eeevery mistake that would kick you out in real life.... thats why people like arches phyics it atleast doesnt alow you to do what ever you want withouth spinning out or anything... you acutaly have suspensions tyres grip and tracktionloss...
is the t300 REALLY not fast enough?? im scared to buy a t300 and feel like its too slow for drifting at times...
The T300 is fine. DD definitely makes like easier because it does have faster rotation speed (and is bit more comparable to a real life car), but my first year or drifting in real life was straight from the T300.
If you don't do T300 I generally recommend MOZA R9 or Simagic Alpha Mini as a starting point for DD.
@@JankyDrift i really like to drive cars with a low steering angle, but i kinda fear the t300 might not be enough? Btw have u played beamng? u should bring some beamng action to the channel
i find the whole thing very far of my real Z too, have you found any solution closest to the real z ? i am on moza
If you started in real life, I don't know that you'll ever find anything that feels super close. My favorite so far has been the old DWG 2.0 Z which I though handled a lot like my setup.
Whew, you gave me hopes, i thought something is wrong with me, cause i lay down pretty good on my z and literally lift for transition and go, in the freaking game i have to use so much clutch that i was thinking if I drive like that real life i will be replacing clutch every event
arch is realistic if you wanted to drift a stock car i suppose x) but who wants that
Thing is... I don't know how the communication between the drifting community and the ac devs is nowadays.... But when I started drifting, and making mods and all that, "back in the day"... 2014-2015 max, there was a lot of communication with the devs, a lot of back and forth, a lot of same "agree to disagree" stuff 😉, but the concensus, after a few years of making mods in ac, not being able to convince the devs, that they are wrong..... (They were italian, can't expect much 🤣), is that the physics engine in ac does NOT work with real life data, pretty much never. I've been saying this to people for a long time. I've been "intimate" with the devs, a lot and a lot of my friends, it doesn't work that way. You gotta improvise, theres no way around it. Either inertia or suspension geometries, specially the drift ones, they just collapse most of the time, mostly at full lock, if you use real life data down to millimeters.
I stopped trying to explain, its useless. Mayne this video will help more. I don't even care anymore, i just enjoy my drifting and be done with it.
I give props to anyone who puts mods together for Assetto because it's a ton of time and detail. I've only been on the PC version for 3 or so years so I don't know what the mods looked like "back in the day" lol, but these days there are a bunch that do a decent job at capturing a realistic driving experience. But yeah, real data unfortunately doesn't seem to mean real physics.
@@JankyDrift yeah, it never did. But it's fine, it works out good eventually. 👍
At some point, when doing rf2 mods, i found an older gentleman, from Germany, apparently some type of engineer, and i saw he was working on a piece of software to visualize in animated 3d, a chassis.
Basically he made that tool, so you can import the data file from a car into it, and it would visualize everything in a wire frame style, with the chassis represented in a 3d animation, you control the thing with the actual wheel and pedals. I used it to visualize how the suspension geometry acts and works, from lock to lock and through bumps and all that, and where it collapses if it does... It was genius. It was sooo complex, had so many things in it. Nuts. Good times.... I hate that period 😂😂
could you try BeamNG and share your thoughts if it's realistic?
Working on it, actually. Already drove beam a bunch to compare, video should hopefully drop in the next few weeks.
@@JankyDrift I'd sure be interested in this as well as I'm quite undecided on Beam's tarmac physics but I can't quite put my finger on what specifically feels 'off' about it.
@@JankyDrift cool looking forward to it. IMO, it's quite decent, but you need to modify the stock cars a bit - especially the vanilla "Drift" are very weird and spin too easily.
I dont think the physics on this 180sx are the most realistic one cause you have the same problem as always you dont feel the front tyres and suspension at all but atleast it hasnt the efn understeer from wdts where you cant drive normal..... but im def not spinning out that much with archs physics of course only if i do the mistakes i would also spin out in real life of course you can increase the angle and you can angle to the universe but than again there is almost no skill needed to drive anymore.
My irl street supra with modded knuckles drifts waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than lennys "drift" 180sx and i would absolutely not call it realistic, difficult yes but realistic NO!
what happened to the t300rs?
FFB started fading during longer sessions so I decided to replace it when i upgraded my cockpit. Honestly I kind of miss it.
@@JankyDrift did you have the fan on all the time? or just when it 'overheats'? it's a known problem with these bases (I have one myself) and if you're using a lower ffb around 40-50% you can get away with setting the fan to run at 100% all the time. higher ffbs will eventually need a fan upgrade / better vents
@@purplejw Longer version of the story: I originally had the fan running only when needed which between the full sized wheel and the FFB being cranked worked well for 3+ years (plus however long the PO had it since I bought it lightly used).
Before I replaced it I upgraded the fan to noctua and set it to always-on which did seem to help but I had already done the mental gymnastics to justify upgrading to a DD at that point lol.
Still 100% recommend the T300 as an entry level wheel though. Alpha Mini really isn't as revolutionary as people make it out to be, which I can more confidently say now that I own one.
@@JankyDrift Interesting that the ffb still started to fade with those upgrades, I guess the wheel was getting tired lol. Definitely agree with the t300 as a starter wheel, each time I see someone thinking about going for a logi wheel I do my best to convince them to spend just a bit more for a way better experience. I'm actually planning on getting an alpha mini this year, mainly for the higher wheel rotation speed.
@@JankyDrift Highly recommend the TSXW. They sorted out the cooling issue, I’ve had one since 2018 and it feels new despite well over 1000 hours driving time. My CSL DD is no better (worse in some ways due to the usual DD weird shit) and I sold my Simucube because it was a total bitch to set up. The TSXW otoh just *works*.
Then again, you show in this video drifting a 350z vs a S13.... NA 330 hp vs turbo simulated horses... no wonder you have to learn how to "drift again" like its two different worlds
If you can drift, you can drift. Instructors jump into random cars and drift all the time at events. Some cars are set up better or worse than others but the skillset is the same whether it's an s13 or Z33.
The closest thing I've found to drifting Arch IRL is drifting through puddles on a completely soaked track.
this sounds like excite cars. everyone raves about them but i find them super unrealistic. immpossible to drive them normally. real cars aernt like that
If you're talking about the recently updated version of excite, make sure you have extended physics turned on for them. If you don't, they drive especially bad. Excite actually runs the same physics as Arch but with different tires, so it's funny you say that.
Track?
Midpond, believe you can find it on Vosan.
car link?
Can find a link to it here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oT5vqu6xjR9Q6KoXpUINWE9YfMbwhUak2qT3H8-VTbo/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks for these interesting videos on drifting in a sim vs. real life! I'd be very curious to hear what you think of drifting in BeamNG and in GTA V (with mods to make it more realistic, as suggested in this tutorial th-cam.com/video/OoqY-WzNRiU/w-d-xo.html ), as compared to Assetto Corsa and real life!
Hi
❤
It is realistic, just a realistically bad drift car lol.
why is a T300 bad??? what a bullshit...