Oh man another rich kid comes in, takes a decent idea and ruins it by getting greedy. INEOS's biggest unlock was getting a quality car for a good value. And now he wants to move yup market to compete with G-Wagons. Just stupid wrong move.
Agreed! I got to a certain point in life where I realized that businesses don't always make things that make sense, they make things that grow their business - even if that strays from their original intention. I feel like that is taking place before our eyes. I'm willing to sit by and watch what happens with fingers crossed, but then I already have a Grenadier. I know that I would not be a buyer at $160K or even at $100K+. Thanks for commenting!
@@MyAutomobileObsession and if it grows their business then while I’d be disappointed that we lost a good accessible product, all power to them. But I’d argue that the whole momentum around the Grenadier was because it bought G Wagon capability at an accessible-ish price. By pricing it like a G Wagon or those Arkonik Defenders they are basically making another Beverley Hills run about..but without the brand history or cache. Which means it could fail quite easily. They should think about how to build a quality product at an acceptable price point. Businesses should make money but serving a larger market at lower profits is a smarter move than serving a smaller market at higher profits. And I honestly refuse to believe, given the components that go into a Gren, they are losing money at $90-100K MSRP
A project driven by passion, not logic or car experience. They found out it costs a lot more to develop and produce such a car than they thought and they can’t swell it cheaply to farmers etc so instead they pitch in the luxury SUV market… Now stopped production due to “trim” issues, yeah. Watch this space.
@@roybatty2030 true. But most industry changing products come from passion and I applaud them for creating the Grenadier. Yes they do t have prior car building experience but despite that they have put out a stellar product. As @myautomobileobsession called out I’m pretty sure they are profitable at a unit level if you exclude initial setup costs. Those have to be amortized over the long term. IMHO that’s where they should try to bring the price down to push more volumes rather than focusing on more profit/ unit. The Grenadier could fail because of other aspects of being a car company that Ineos needs to get right. Ex: service, parts support, etc. But I’d hate to see it fail because some dumb rich kids wanted to kill the goose that’s laying the golden eggs. The new breed of off-road vehicles are already normalizing the entry price to ~$60-70K (Jeep, Land Cruiser, GX, Bronco) and that’s before they are built up a bit (bumper, rock rails, etc.). The Gren is pretty much ready from factory. The price point today is right for that. If they can keep it flat for the next five years or even knock it down $5K and keep reliability high they would slowly but surely win the volume market.
An American investment firm purchased the exclusive license to manufacture and distribute Recaro Automotive seats in 2020. Recaro seats were manufactured in Germany and Japan and sold to vehicle manufacturers all over the world. The company then opened up a manufacturing plant in the US taking that market away from Recaro Germany. They then lost a contract to supply the VW Group. So Recaro GMBH has gone into financial problems. This means it would be stupid for Ineos Automotive to manufacture vehicles that won't have seats. All their global certification and compliance is with these Recaro seats. If they have to find a replacement they may have totally different mounting points and airbags etc. Not the first time an investment company has purchased a business and screwed it up.
Thanks for the comment and I believe you! There are cancelled order cars that often don't have essential or desired options that were ordered by people who thought they would just order the basic truck - and those are not necessarily desired versions of the Grenadier. That's why they get to sit and wait for a matching buyer who wants what that build has as most original buyers ordered exactly what they wanted. It will be interesting to see if or how this changes when the supply of fresh cars turns off for a while. Not sure if dealers would rather push out this inventory and have nothing new, or have something on the lot. As this is all new news, time will tell!
They may not be selling in CT but here in Colorado they have been moving vehicles quite rapidly. We purchased ours within a week of hearing of INEOS and the Grenadier. Purchased a Fieldmaster in MM with full lockers, 18" alloys with KO2s, privacy glass, full electrical setup (roof plugs etc), rear hitch....and wait for it....the EXCLUSIVE/ELUSIVE "SMOKERS PACKAGE!"!!!! We purchased two days after our test drive and Craig Barela at Red Noland Ineos in Colorado Springs was an absolute delight to work with! The Fieldmaster we purchased fit all of our needs/wants. We travel by the dealer a couple times a week and the line of "SOLD" vehicles on the lot is pretty long and inventory appears to be moving relatively quickly from our standpoint. Unfortunate about the production hold....I am hopeful that Ineos will get it sorted soon.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
@@yuglesstube I don't think so. It will take a lot of time and money to make radical changes to convert the brilliant old-fashioned off-roader to a car like the modern Defender. It might get more luxury and cosmetic changes, and it might get some changes to the steering, but I don't think much more-at least in the short term. I still plan to order my Quartermaster in 2025.
@hanenlos I wonder if it's been recognised that the niche the Grenadier was intended to suit is impossible to suit. It's far heavier and more expensive than planned. The reason there is no defender replacement is perhaps because such a thing is now not possible. And perhaps Grenadier proves it.
@@yuglesstube well, not sure. I think judging whether the Grenadier is a success or a failure will take more time. For overlanding globally it will be the best option out there. Why you might ask: is the Toyota 79 not the best overlander. Well if you plan to go all over the world then a Toyota presence in the country will not help if they do not sell your model in that country. So that takes the 70 series out of the game. If we can believe the Grenadier's ambitions of becoming available all over the planet - then clearly the Grenadier is the favorite global overlanding 4x4 I can think of - and it is every boy's dream - at least it is mine :-) (PS: do you live in Switzerland? - just guessing based on your youtube handle!)
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Thanks for commenting. You make the point - it's said to be off-road focus, but that's an optional extra - so somebody had to be thinking that there would be an on-road market too. However, this story isn't new. Range Rover's humble beginnings were similar and 40 years later look at what it's become....
The Recaro problem might be only the pretext. The company is struggling with immensely weak sales figures. Just to give you an idea... This year, just 369 Grenadier were newly registered in Germany, a main sales market. That's not even 50 a month. So going on short-time work due to weak order intake apart from the Recaro dilemma was a logical consequence. With the measure, employers can react to temporary overcapacity and thus avoid worse consequences such as job cuts. They are also able to quickly ramp up production again as soon as the situation improves. I really hope so, but I'm afraid the new marketing approach from George Ratcliffe will appeal to even fewer buyers. Then you'd better get a G63 right away...
Great comment! It could be possible that most of those who wanted Grenadiers, now have one. It remains to be seen how they develop interest and new customers. I do find that people approach me regularly who have never seen nor heard of a Grenadier and are quite intrigued. It may just take time. But yes, the Recaro shut down may have been a bit of a blessing in disguise (?) and provide a little space to re-think a few things to remain strong and viable going forward. I think INEOS is well aware of potential ups and downs, however if the buyers really aren't materializing (and price could be a part of this), it will be interesting to see what they do.
There are plenty of unsold grenadiers in Atlanta. Last month $5k off msrp on inventory. This month 2.9% financing. Cant get parts. People don’t want them. I think the prices will continue to drop. Lots of good deals on used ones, already.
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate your perspective and it's helpful to have this shared. I was aware of the $5K offer and don't know if it's still happening, but they are going to experience a rough patch while they work to tidy up inventory from cancelled orders. The only point I might debate with you is that people don't want them. They do - or more correctly SOME do - but the original price target was $59K and today's Grenadier is not that. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out, but INEOS Automotive has solid backing from INEOS, so they will move forward in some shape or another. Just might get a little messy for a while.
My local Ineos dealer (IL) has, at least, 100 Granadiers sitting at their parking lot. They are trying to sell them with a very nice 2.99% interest rate. Hope for MY25 Ineos will be able to manage some of the issues reported for MY24.
Thanks for adding this. I'm keeping track of such comments and watching supply. I bought mine 10 days before they introduced 2.9%, so I'll be paying mine off sooner as there were no great rates on standard finance deals.
I still think INEOS missed a trick by not purchasing Korea’s SsangYong (now KGM) - they’re now on the up, new models (already designed pre-sale) would’ve given INEOS a volume division known also for rugged AWD vehicles, great quality - Korean supply chain access and a decent and now growing distribution network. I cannot understand why they didn’t. They would’ve had access to common parts that are good quality - switches, controls, looms, engines, and…. Seats!
Great comment and point. I think their original intention was to build in Britain as a heritage thing. They got lucky when they found a ready-made state-of-the-art factory for sale in Hambach, France. It's funny to see the Grenadier has 3 different international flags on it (UK/DE/FR).
Unfortunately, it would appear that the highly desirable Grenadier has become even more unattainable for us mere mortals who are not members of the Billionaire class.
Great comment. They started out with a target of about $59K during the initial design phase and now a '25 Model Year starts at $75K and that's for a bare-bones version with no extras. At some point it stops making sense for what you're getting...that is unless you're spending your "throw away" money.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I know, I have been avidly following the development and progress of project grenadier since it was first announced. For a long time I had the hope of buying one until the prices jumped. I feel that Sir Jim got distracted by his design team who wanted to build a revamped G Class Merc and that the car became over engineered, too heavy and too expensive to produce. I am afraid that this shut down in production will mark the beginning of the end for the vehicle. 😔
Thanks for the update. This sounds like Bricklin, DeLorean, and Fisker, all rolled into one. Who wants to wait for a car that may never be produced? No seats. Really?
Thanks for your comment. I think what sets this apart from the brands you listed is the financial backing at play. INEOS is a privately owned mega company, and they don't always follow the standard playbook. I don't think the insolvency of Recaro will grind them to a halt as much as the softening demand for autos at this price point. I would not be surprised to see INEOS heavily invest in, or buy Recaro.
Thanks for the comment. And you're probably correct that they were aware of this situation well before we all first heard about it. I got a head's up at the beginning of the month, but I'm sure they had their fingers crossed that Recaro would continue to conduct business during its reorganization. Sometimes suppliers (or companies in general) hold things close to the vest. I can only imagine what that phone call was like... We'll stay tuned to see how it plays out.
I ordered Granadier in June. It is supposed to have my Granadier med Nov 24. 2 Days ago I received an Email that the delivery of my Granadier postponed to the first quarter of 2025. 😢
It may be that there is going to be a deal to save the business but then again, perhaps not. Presumably they will take their design to another manufacturer and have them manufactured, but that all takes time.
Exactly - takes time. It will be interesting to see how they are able to resolve this since long term and short term may be different solutions. Thanks for commenting!
Yes - there are many dealers that have several remaining 2024 cars on the lot - cancelled orders. Some are highly spec'd and others are bare bones. Somebody who is spending almost $100K CDN on a car wants what THEY want and not some leftover. So dealers have to wait for a buyer that matches what that car has (color, options, etc.). It will be interesting to see if this changes now that supply of 2025 cars will become constrained for an unknown amount of time. Thanks for commenting!
It's no loss..the vehicle is old fashioned lump without being too impolite.. Radcliffe needs urgently interviewing as he is abandoning other operations in the petro chemical industry.. Seats can be for from 20 suppliers..that excuse is a load of tosh.. All seats are type approved to a standard. Sounds more like an Ineos liquidity issue.
Great comments. Time will tell, but I do know that INEOS has lots of pocket money. As for the old fashioned lump comment - I somehow thinks that is where the popularity is coming from. Some folks want a sturdy old fashioned lump! To each, his own. Right?
You are correct. My saying that was mainly that they could spend time keeping busy on R&D while they are in this holding pattern. Thanks for commenting!
I wouldn’t worry a lot about that situation with the son. And, he’s right, a bunch of bureaucrats have impaired the car market. Now we have boring ass designs and simple minded “cross overs”designed for moms. It’s all gotten sort of “Ukrainian”. Compared to a G wagon or LandRover or even a Denali-they aren’t that bad on price. That being said, I’d probably be inclined to wait on some depreciation to kick in. I suspect there are going to be a lot of people who buy them and then miss some of the creature comforts-and there will hopefully be plenty with low miles.
All great comments - thanks. It's a wait and see as I don't think the sky is falling, but as fans of the brand it somehow feels like tragedy has struck. They will sort it out.
Agreed! There were a lot of cancelled orders and what I have seen as reasons range from financial change of circumstance (we put deposits down a year and a half ago), or they didn't like how certain features turned out, didn't like the color once they saw it, etc. But that oversupply that they were trying to push now may become the ONLY supply that dealers have for several months - and I'm not sure if that changes things. We shall see, won't we? Thanks for commenting!
@@RootBeerGMT You can call them/message them to ask. It does not look like they are moving many because about a month ago it was maybe 20 sitting there. Some people claim they are selling well, are all over the Los Angeles area. But I am in the south bay - Hermosa/Manhattan/Redondo Beach and I have not seen one in months. And this is a wealthy area where people have the latest, fanciest everything.
@@XPRoller good grief that is awful. That means this is a flop in the USA. People are willing to pay $80k (including dealer mark up) for the new Land Cruiser so the soending money is there. I think this is the fault of Inneos not having a decent advertising campaign. Most people have no idea who or what they are.
Thanks for the comment. It's certainly not a far-fetched idea knowing that Jim Ratcliffe bought Belstaf (the clothing company and namesake for the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster) because it was in financial trouble. Time will tell!
Not a bad idea, but I think they will solve this either with Recaro, or with another European vendor. I think logistics would be a different kind of problem that might be introduced.
More like trying to clear the 2024 inventory. All dealers seem to be loaded with them, and they are starting to discount to move them. This is the perfect ploy to retain pricing and clear the 24's. I will be buying a Toyota Land Cruiser instead !
Great Point! But the manufacturing shut down due to Recaro pulling the plug is no ploy. That does not mean that they need to clear out those remaining 24's. Frankly, I think their plan would have been to blow them out and start fresh with the 2025's as they handle orders differently now and potential customers won't place orders for Grenadiers with no (or a strange mix of) options. And the 2025's are at a new, higher price - already. So, now that we won't see 2025's for a while it will be interesting to see how they approach. As for the business problem, INEOS is really well funded and finding more business thatn anticipated in the UAE and other markets. The U.S. is only one of 17 at the moment, and they are heading for 20. If the company fails, it will be a spectacular failure. I'm not thinking that will happen, but also don't know if it will all be smooth sailing, either. Thanks for your comments!
Please email me privately and I will be happy to share. You can find my address from my channel page (on a desktop apparently and not on mobile) - and the about me section will show you my e-address.
Thanks for your comment. I agree that they have a situation on their hands with too many cars (at that price), but it appears to be industry wide (except for Asian cars). EV's are piling up, Trucks, etc. I think everybody who wanted to buy after the Pandemic has already done so, and nobody needs a new car year after year.
Good question! Grenadier's come with a 5 year warranty at the moment (In the U.S.) so their on the hook for at least that long. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if something goes wrong, it's not with the seat! Also, the seats have built-in airbags, so not sure about replacement in the event they deploy.
I would think yes, but if the new supplier doesn't make an exact replica of the Recaro seat, it may need new safety certification and so on. That's the hard part, I think. Thanks for commenting!
Thanks for commenting. We didn't ever get the 2023 in the U.S., we started with the 2024 Model Year. I am surprised to hear that there are some 2023's still available, but somehow not surprised.
Thanks for the question! I'm doing remarkably well with it. No mechanical issues. Anything that I'm having trouble with is more in the category of "I don't like the way they implemented the feature" and alot of that is software related. But overall, good.
@@MyAutomobileObsession We had software problems initially in Australia but that was resolved after around 6 months and now no problems at all. I also had a faulty rear door sensor that was replaced.
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Oh man another rich kid comes in, takes a decent idea and ruins it by getting greedy. INEOS's biggest unlock was getting a quality car for a good value. And now he wants to move yup market to compete with G-Wagons. Just stupid wrong move.
Agreed! I got to a certain point in life where I realized that businesses don't always make things that make sense, they make things that grow their business - even if that strays from their original intention. I feel like that is taking place before our eyes. I'm willing to sit by and watch what happens with fingers crossed, but then I already have a Grenadier. I know that I would not be a buyer at $160K or even at $100K+. Thanks for commenting!
@@MyAutomobileObsession and if it grows their business then while I’d be disappointed that we lost a good accessible product, all power to them. But I’d argue that the whole momentum around the Grenadier was because it bought G Wagon capability at an accessible-ish price. By pricing it like a G Wagon or those Arkonik Defenders they are basically making another Beverley Hills run about..but without the brand history or cache. Which means it could fail quite easily.
They should think about how to build a quality product at an acceptable price point. Businesses should make money but serving a larger market at lower profits is a smarter move than serving a smaller market at higher profits.
And I honestly refuse to believe, given the components that go into a Gren, they are losing money at $90-100K MSRP
@@paachi They are not losing money on the vehicles. They still have to recover their setup investment but that is also recovered as tax credits.
A project driven by passion, not logic or car experience. They found out it costs a lot more to develop and produce such a car than they thought and they can’t swell it cheaply to farmers etc so instead they pitch in the luxury SUV market… Now stopped production due to “trim” issues, yeah. Watch this space.
@@roybatty2030 true. But most industry changing products come from passion and I applaud them for creating the Grenadier. Yes they do t have prior car building experience but despite that they have put out a stellar product. As @myautomobileobsession called out I’m pretty sure they are profitable at a unit level if you exclude initial setup costs. Those have to be amortized over the long term. IMHO that’s where they should try to bring the price down to push more volumes rather than focusing on more profit/ unit.
The Grenadier could fail because of other aspects of being a car company that Ineos needs to get right. Ex: service, parts support, etc. But I’d hate to see it fail because some dumb rich kids wanted to kill the goose that’s laying the golden eggs.
The new breed of off-road vehicles are already normalizing the entry price to ~$60-70K (Jeep, Land Cruiser, GX, Bronco) and that’s before they are built up a bit (bumper, rock rails, etc.). The Gren is pretty much ready from factory. The price point today is right for that. If they can keep it flat for the next five years or even knock it down $5K and keep reliability high they would slowly but surely win the volume market.
An American investment firm purchased the exclusive license to manufacture and distribute Recaro Automotive seats in 2020. Recaro seats were manufactured in Germany and Japan and sold to vehicle manufacturers all over the world. The company then opened up a manufacturing plant in the US taking that market away from Recaro Germany. They then lost a contract to supply the VW Group. So Recaro GMBH has gone into financial problems. This means it would be stupid for Ineos Automotive to manufacture vehicles that won't have seats. All their global certification and compliance is with these Recaro seats. If they have to find a replacement they may have totally different mounting points and airbags etc. Not the first time an investment company has purchased a
business and screwed it up.
Thanks for sharing this. It's the information that I had as well.
My friend at a dealer in CT told me that they are having a hard time selling the cars.
Thanks for the comment and I believe you! There are cancelled order cars that often don't have essential or desired options that were ordered by people who thought they would just order the basic truck - and those are not necessarily desired versions of the Grenadier. That's why they get to sit and wait for a matching buyer who wants what that build has as most original buyers ordered exactly what they wanted. It will be interesting to see if or how this changes when the supply of fresh cars turns off for a while. Not sure if dealers would rather push out this inventory and have nothing new, or have something on the lot. As this is all new news, time will tell!
They may not be selling in CT but here in Colorado they have been moving vehicles quite rapidly. We purchased ours within a week of hearing of INEOS and the Grenadier. Purchased a Fieldmaster in MM with full lockers, 18" alloys with KO2s, privacy glass, full electrical setup (roof plugs etc), rear hitch....and wait for it....the EXCLUSIVE/ELUSIVE "SMOKERS PACKAGE!"!!!! We purchased two days after our test drive and Craig Barela at Red Noland Ineos in Colorado Springs was an absolute delight to work with! The Fieldmaster we purchased fit all of our needs/wants. We travel by the dealer a couple times a week and the line of "SOLD" vehicles on the lot is pretty long and inventory appears to be moving relatively quickly from our standpoint. Unfortunate about the production hold....I am hopeful that Ineos will get it sorted soon.
I am picking my new Grennie up from stock at Curry INEOS next week... my order from April has not shipped to states yet.
I believe it's too heavy and has too small a payload. I think it missed the mark.
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
my factory tour also got canceled - and yes, it is the Recaro seats that are causing this 😞
Thanks for commenting. I'd been trying to get into the factory for a couple of years now, so clearly disappointed.
@hanenlos Taken with the rather interesting remarks of the Radcliffe son, I wonder if there's not more to the story.
@@yuglesstube I don't think so. It will take a lot of time and money to make radical changes to convert the brilliant old-fashioned off-roader to a car like the modern Defender. It might get more luxury and cosmetic changes, and it might get some changes to the steering, but I don't think much more-at least in the short term. I still plan to order my Quartermaster in 2025.
@hanenlos I wonder if it's been recognised that the niche the Grenadier was intended to suit is impossible to suit. It's far heavier and more expensive than planned.
The reason there is no defender replacement is perhaps because such a thing is now not possible.
And perhaps Grenadier proves it.
@@yuglesstube well, not sure. I think judging whether the Grenadier is a success or a failure will take more time. For overlanding globally it will be the best option out there. Why you might ask: is the Toyota 79 not the best overlander. Well if you plan to go all over the world then a Toyota presence in the country will not help if they do not sell your model in that country. So that takes the 70 series out of the game. If we can believe the Grenadier's ambitions of becoming available all over the planet - then clearly the Grenadier is the favorite global overlanding 4x4 I can think of - and it is every boy's dream - at least it is mine :-) (PS: do you live in Switzerland? - just guessing based on your youtube handle!)
If you are not going rock climbing everyday, keep away from it, and 90% of it not equipped with rear lockers, means just for your daily commute. It is a town car! Then horrible design, small side mirror, you have to purchase a separate step to get in easily, you have to lift your leg to brake it…, then the never comeback steering. Quite some people traded it in for other cars with only 300 or 400 miles on it. Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust. Go figure!😢
Thanks for commenting. You make the point - it's said to be off-road focus, but that's an optional extra - so somebody had to be thinking that there would be an on-road market too. However, this story isn't new. Range Rover's humble beginnings were similar and 40 years later look at what it's become....
The Recaro problem might be only the pretext. The company is struggling with immensely weak sales figures. Just to give you an idea... This year, just 369 Grenadier were newly registered in Germany, a main sales market. That's not even 50 a month.
So going on short-time work due to weak order intake apart from the Recaro dilemma was a logical consequence. With the measure, employers can react to temporary overcapacity and thus avoid worse consequences such as job cuts. They are also able to quickly ramp up production again as soon as the situation improves. I really hope so, but I'm afraid the new marketing approach from George Ratcliffe will appeal to even fewer buyers. Then you'd better get a G63 right away...
Great comment! It could be possible that most of those who wanted Grenadiers, now have one. It remains to be seen how they develop interest and new customers. I do find that people approach me regularly who have never seen nor heard of a Grenadier and are quite intrigued. It may just take time. But yes, the Recaro shut down may have been a bit of a blessing in disguise (?) and provide a little space to re-think a few things to remain strong and viable going forward. I think INEOS is well aware of potential ups and downs, however if the buyers really aren't materializing (and price could be a part of this), it will be interesting to see what they do.
There are plenty of unsold grenadiers in Atlanta. Last month $5k off msrp on inventory. This month 2.9% financing. Cant get parts. People don’t want them. I think the prices will continue to drop. Lots of good deals on used ones, already.
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate your perspective and it's helpful to have this shared. I was aware of the $5K offer and don't know if it's still happening, but they are going to experience a rough patch while they work to tidy up inventory from cancelled orders. The only point I might debate with you is that people don't want them. They do - or more correctly SOME do - but the original price target was $59K and today's Grenadier is not that. It's going to be interesting to see how things play out, but INEOS Automotive has solid backing from INEOS, so they will move forward in some shape or another. Just might get a little messy for a while.
My local Ineos dealer (IL) has, at least, 100 Granadiers sitting at their parking lot. They are trying to sell them with a very nice 2.99% interest rate. Hope for MY25 Ineos will be able to manage some of the issues reported for MY24.
Thanks for adding this. I'm keeping track of such comments and watching supply. I bought mine 10 days before they introduced 2.9%, so I'll be paying mine off sooner as there were no great rates on standard finance deals.
I still think INEOS missed a trick by not purchasing Korea’s SsangYong (now KGM) - they’re now on the up, new models (already designed pre-sale) would’ve given INEOS a volume division known also for rugged AWD vehicles, great quality - Korean supply chain access and a decent and now growing distribution network. I cannot understand why they didn’t. They would’ve had access to common parts that are good quality - switches, controls, looms, engines, and…. Seats!
Great comment and point. I think their original intention was to build in Britain as a heritage thing. They got lucky when they found a ready-made state-of-the-art factory for sale in Hambach, France. It's funny to see the Grenadier has 3 different international flags on it (UK/DE/FR).
Unfortunately, it would appear that the highly desirable Grenadier has become even more unattainable for us mere mortals who are not members of the Billionaire class.
Great comment. They started out with a target of about $59K during the initial design phase and now a '25 Model Year starts at $75K and that's for a bare-bones version with no extras. At some point it stops making sense for what you're getting...that is unless you're spending your "throw away" money.
@@MyAutomobileObsession I know, I have been avidly following the development and progress of project grenadier since it was first announced. For a long time I had the hope of buying one until the prices jumped. I feel that Sir Jim got distracted by his design team who wanted to build a revamped G Class Merc and that the car became over engineered, too heavy and too expensive to produce. I am afraid that this shut down in production will mark the beginning of the end for the vehicle. 😔
Thanks. Just scheduling a test drive now
Thanks for commenting. Just make sure you get one with the options you want!
Thanks for the update. This sounds like Bricklin, DeLorean, and Fisker, all rolled into one. Who wants to wait for a car that may never be produced? No seats. Really?
Thanks for your comment. I think what sets this apart from the brands you listed is the financial backing at play. INEOS is a privately owned mega company, and they don't always follow the standard playbook. I don't think the insolvency of Recaro will grind them to a halt as much as the softening demand for autos at this price point. I would not be surprised to see INEOS heavily invest in, or buy Recaro.
I'm calling this BS!! company like Ineos this should have seen this coming.
Thanks for the comment. And you're probably correct that they were aware of this situation well before we all first heard about it. I got a head's up at the beginning of the month, but I'm sure they had their fingers crossed that Recaro would continue to conduct business during its reorganization. Sometimes suppliers (or companies in general) hold things close to the vest. I can only imagine what that phone call was like... We'll stay tuned to see how it plays out.
I ordered Granadier in June. It is supposed to have my Granadier med Nov 24. 2 Days ago I received an Email that the delivery of my Granadier postponed to the first quarter of 2025. 😢
Sorry to hear this, but thanks for confirming.
Similar situation in the UK, IAC in the UK which supplies to JLR was in financial trouble so JLR bought it
Great comment! I would not be surprised to see something like this happen with INEOS.
It may be that there is going to be a deal to save the business but then again, perhaps not.
Presumably they will take their design to another manufacturer and have them manufactured, but that all takes time.
Exactly - takes time. It will be interesting to see how they are able to resolve this since long term and short term may be different solutions. Thanks for commenting!
Interesting, they have at least 20 of them in stock in Vancouver, BC.
Yes - there are many dealers that have several remaining 2024 cars on the lot - cancelled orders. Some are highly spec'd and others are bare bones. Somebody who is spending almost $100K CDN on a car wants what THEY want and not some leftover. So dealers have to wait for a buyer that matches what that car has (color, options, etc.). It will be interesting to see if this changes now that supply of 2025 cars will become constrained for an unknown amount of time. Thanks for commenting!
It's no loss..the vehicle is old fashioned lump without being too impolite..
Radcliffe needs urgently interviewing as he is abandoning other operations in the petro chemical industry..
Seats can be for from 20 suppliers..that excuse is a load of tosh..
All seats are type approved to a standard.
Sounds more like an Ineos liquidity issue.
Great comments. Time will tell, but I do know that INEOS has lots of pocket money. As for the old fashioned lump comment - I somehow thinks that is where the popularity is coming from. Some folks want a sturdy old fashioned lump! To each, his own. Right?
They can do R&D but you can't re engineer and design a car in months.
You are correct. My saying that was mainly that they could spend time keeping busy on R&D while they are in this holding pattern. Thanks for commenting!
That “upmarket” is not anymore a blue ocean market but rather a red ocean and they risk not succeed, as those places are well guarded ….
Great comment! It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I wouldn’t worry a lot about that situation with the son. And, he’s right, a bunch of bureaucrats have impaired the car market. Now we have boring ass designs and simple minded “cross overs”designed for moms. It’s all gotten sort of “Ukrainian”.
Compared to a G wagon or LandRover or even a Denali-they aren’t that bad on price. That being said, I’d probably be inclined to wait on some depreciation to kick in. I suspect there are going to be a lot of people who buy them and then miss some of the creature comforts-and there will hopefully be plenty with low miles.
Having competed on the Dakar and other Rally Raid.. wouldn't own one with a broom 🧹 stick..
Over weight, out of date lump of fuel greedy legacy crap.
Great comment, but I think that's exactly why some people love them!
All great comments - thanks. It's a wait and see as I don't think the sky is falling, but as fans of the brand it somehow feels like tragedy has struck. They will sort it out.
i have a 2016 disco 4, best drive ever, yes the engine bothers me, but NOTHING, NOTHING at all drives as well
Thanks for the comment. I had a 2001 Disco 2 and it was a favorite. I found it to be quite nimble and really enjoyed it.
Hard to get? Rusnak Inneos has 31 sitting on their lot!
Agreed! There were a lot of cancelled orders and what I have seen as reasons range from financial change of circumstance (we put deposits down a year and a half ago), or they didn't like how certain features turned out, didn't like the color once they saw it, etc. But that oversupply that they were trying to push now may become the ONLY supply that dealers have for several months - and I'm not sure if that changes things. We shall see, won't we? Thanks for commenting!
Discounts?
@@RootBeerGMT You can call them/message them to ask. It does not look like they are moving many because about a month ago it was maybe 20 sitting there.
Some people claim they are selling well, are all over the Los Angeles area. But I am in the south bay - Hermosa/Manhattan/Redondo Beach and I have not seen one in months. And this is a wealthy area where people have the latest, fanciest everything.
Atlanta has over 80 covered with dust!
@@XPRoller good grief that is awful. That means this is a flop in the USA. People are willing to pay $80k (including dealer mark up) for the new Land Cruiser so the soending money is there. I think this is the fault of Inneos not having a decent advertising campaign.
Most people have no idea who or what they are.
I bet ineos buy recaro..and bring it into profit again.
Thanks for the comment. It's certainly not a far-fetched idea knowing that Jim Ratcliffe bought Belstaf (the clothing company and namesake for the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster) because it was in financial trouble. Time will tell!
Maybe they need to look to Japan for seats?
Not a bad idea, but I think they will solve this either with Recaro, or with another European vendor. I think logistics would be a different kind of problem that might be introduced.
More like trying to clear the 2024 inventory. All dealers seem to be loaded with them, and they are starting to discount to move them. This is the perfect ploy to retain pricing and clear the 24's.
I will be buying a Toyota Land Cruiser instead !
The very limited demand for the Ineos will be met shortly if it has not already and there is no way they will be able to remain solvent for very long.
@@JetSkiSuper7 Agree!
Great Point! But the manufacturing shut down due to Recaro pulling the plug is no ploy. That does not mean that they need to clear out those remaining 24's. Frankly, I think their plan would have been to blow them out and start fresh with the 2025's as they handle orders differently now and potential customers won't place orders for Grenadiers with no (or a strange mix of) options. And the 2025's are at a new, higher price - already. So, now that we won't see 2025's for a while it will be interesting to see how they approach. As for the business problem, INEOS is really well funded and finding more business thatn anticipated in the UAE and other markets. The U.S. is only one of 17 at the moment, and they are heading for 20. If the company fails, it will be a spectacular failure. I'm not thinking that will happen, but also don't know if it will all be smooth sailing, either. Thanks for your comments!
So what’s the name of that hotel? We are traveling to Hambach in late
October . Thanks .
Please email me privately and I will be happy to share. You can find my address from my channel page (on a desktop apparently and not on mobile) - and the about me section will show you my e-address.
Definitely not going to have a dry spell the 100k ineos will become 60k very shortly
There not selling as fast as they hoped as they overpriced them
Thanks for your comment. I agree that they have a situation on their hands with too many cars (at that price), but it appears to be industry wide (except for Asian cars). EV's are piling up, Trucks, etc. I think everybody who wanted to buy after the Pandemic has already done so, and nobody needs a new car year after year.
Let’s say you have an issue with your recaros in a year or two. Or ten. 😂🎉
Good question! Grenadier's come with a 5 year warranty at the moment (In the U.S.) so their on the hook for at least that long. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if something goes wrong, it's not with the seat! Also, the seats have built-in airbags, so not sure about replacement in the event they deploy.
I also thought if they would add a “bass-trim” Grenadier with cloth seats that sits below the current lineup.
Cloth seats are the base seats. Leather is an option. A no frills Grenadier is just over $70K.
Thanks for jumping in! Cloth seats are standard on the Station Wagon and the Trialmaster.
Can’t they find another supplier?
I would think yes, but if the new supplier doesn't make an exact replica of the Recaro seat, it may need new safety certification and so on. That's the hard part, I think. Thanks for commenting!
DILERS GIVE ME VERY GOOD OFFERS FOR 2023
Thanks for commenting. We didn't ever get the 2023 in the U.S., we started with the 2024 Model Year. I am surprised to hear that there are some 2023's still available, but somehow not surprised.
How is your IG working out so far? Issues?
Thanks for the question! I'm doing remarkably well with it. No mechanical issues. Anything that I'm having trouble with is more in the category of "I don't like the way they implemented the feature" and alot of that is software related. But overall, good.
@@MyAutomobileObsession We had software problems initially in Australia but that was resolved after around 6 months and now no problems at all. I also had a faulty rear door sensor that was replaced.
How much they pay you to wear the stupid T-shirt
Ouch! I bought the shirt, so blame me. I'm not a plant for INEOS, just a fan. My apologies if you found it offensive.
@@MyAutomobileObsessionAw... that's not fair. I think it is cool. Unfortunately, it is about the only IG product that I can afford to buy 😃
😂 Manchester United stock not doing too well…
If Manchester United suddenly has "RECARO" on the front of their jerseys, we will know what that means...
I think the Ineos Grenadier will be an orphan. My local dealer has tons of inventory that isn’t moving. The seat issue may be the nail in the coffin.
Thanks for your comment. Time will certainly tell. I feel that INEOS is so well funded that they'll put up a good fight before they fold.
Why anyone would buy an Ineos over the new Land Cruiser is beyond me.
That's not surprising!
Thanks for commenting - you know, that's what makes the world go round. We all have different preferences. The Land Cruiser is great!