ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- In this weeks episode we take a look at Fallout New Vegas's implementation of the C-47 Skytrain. Join me while I present an NCR use case, discuss the C-47, and then take a deep dive on the pros and cons as I see them related to this model!
Stay Awesome!
Spydingo
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![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
Personally, I think that these planes USED to be In the military, but were sold to be civilian airliners, but the buyers never cared to retrieve them from the airport and never bothered to scrap them. This explains the still army paint job. This does not consider how the planes are still in good condition, but I think it's a neat story.
Fun fact, the Air Force is still operating air frames from the 50s. In particular, the KC-135, which is based off of the civilian Boeing 707.
Might be one of those planes that does the little kid toy thing, where an entire chunk of the fuselage is actually the 'door' and there's no need for a small doorway, because it's only meant to ever carry large stuff, not people (though, obviously, it still can)
Between this and the Zetan's ships, part of me starts to wonder if Fallout's engineers developed some phobia of doors.
Your idea that these could be Navy C-47s is actually pretty intriguing. The landing gear reminds me a lot of the F/A-18's gear, and I think I have a head canon purpose for these. McCarran is pretty close, geographically speaking, to Marine Corps Base 29 Palms and Air Station Yuma, and these could be deployed off an aircraft carrier specialized for Marine Expeditionary Units, thus the strengthened gear and folding wings. Being a propeller aircraft (although I'd prefer a turboprop over a piston powerplant) means it will have better short takeoff and landing performance, meaning it may even be able to take off and land from smaller amphibious assault craft. These were probably for parajump practice for Marine Corps units, stationed at 29 Palms, and had just taken a short jaunt over from Yuma. There's even precedent for this sorta thing, the Navy played around with C-130s off of carriers in the 60's.
Awesome theory! I really like how you've managed to base it around real world military bases and tied it to jump training. Also your telling me, quite correctly, that I missed an opportunity to talk about the C-130 a Lockheed airframe. That makes me quite sad. I've let my first employer down lol. You've also made me really want to see what a assault carrier would look like in the fallout universe. That would be amazing!
I've seen several ideas for the scoops on the wings, but historically Germany and Italy used scoops like that for oil coolers, so it stands to reason that those serve the same propose here.
My thought for the planes lies in the civilian ancestry of the C-47, the DC-3. McCarran Field, now Harry Reid International Airport, is a civilian airport, those aren't cargo planes, they're airliners. Specifically they're small, short range regional carriers for airlines operating on the Spoke-hub model. The large airliner seen crashed in Fallout 4 would be the aircraft used for hub-hub flights while this aircraft would bring passengers to their final destination or to the hub from their regional airport. Since this craft needs to operate at small airfields that may not have the infrastructure to handle large aircraft it has been designed to have folding wings to minimize space. As for why it looks like a DC-3, it's actually a new air frame built to an old, proven design that had to be built with Sino-American War rationing in mind. The large carriers like SkyLines can afford fancy nuclear jet engines but the local regional carriers have to make do with low priority items, like fission batteries and electric motors, which means a prop plane. Incidentally, the outboard protruding element is where they would place the fission batteries, it puts the engine between them and the passenger compartment and thus gets to use the motors as extra radiation shielding.
The inclusion of all the windows certainly does point to the NV rendition being configured for a passenger loadout rather than a cargo loadout, and the regional airliner idea is solid. I do wonder a little about the army green paint job and the McCarran site being clearly labeled as "Camp McCarran" implying that the airport is still military in nature. That being said though, there really isn't any reason to have such a fancy terminal or have the CCW-5s parked on the tarmac if the site is exclusively military in nature. I also suppose its possible the "camp" sign was put up by the NCR themselves and wasn't prewar in nature, and there is nothing saying that a civilian airline can't have green livre so this is very possible. I would say though, at least in my opinion the Fallout 4 airliner is too dang big to be a hub to hub craft, even though that is how the game portrays it. I can only really see an airframe of that size being used for international flights. I really like the idea of the outboard element being integral to engine functions, though after having looked at more images of C-47s I'm now pretty sure that those pods are just heavily stylized lights. The extra radiation shielding is a nice touch, but if I know my fallout companies that had to be a secondary or tertiary benefit lol. Thanks for the thoughtful comment as always =)
@Davidnnguyen9092 Think you're talking to the wrong person, friend.
@@spydingo is called Camp Mcarran because the NCR uses it as a military base, it wasn't a military base pre-war, just a normal international airport.
The small thing next to the engine on the wing I think it might be a air intake for the reason that there actually has been designs like that for engine, separated, intakes
I think these are more likely new, scratch designed planes that happen to be based upon the success of the C-47 (As in engineers saw the success of the plane and decided to copy major aspects over it onto a completely new airframe), as it would be quite unnecessary to retrofit things like new widows and different airframe components like the ribbing you mentioned. It could be possible that the U.S. went back and decided to recreate some of their more successful craft from the ground up.
A nuclear powered propeller plane is also probably more palpable to the general public than a nuclear jet spewing carcinogens out with its exhuast
My headcanon is those are not from the war times but rather a designe that the NCR was able to produce, cheap and easy that won't be too taxing on the NCR industry. Like they found the projects or the model in a museum and retro-engineered it. After all those models don't look old or abbandoned.
I like the idea that the NCR found the ones that were used by fire jump teams, it’s also my personal headcanon that the one we see in Zion was a fire jump plane as well
Also just to elaborate, a lot of this just stems from A) a lot of the surviving C47s did go into use with the forestry service and dropped fire crews all over the western US and B) due to the climate we know the southwest to generally have it wouldn’t be entirely out of the question for a few runways and hangers that would’ve housed those to still have a couple around
My idea is that the cargo plane, is newer than the c47 but is kind of just made to look like one, maybe because of nostalgia or just that there’s only so many ways to design a plane, this could also be applied to other vehicles in fallout 3 and new Vegas
My idea for the folding wings is so that they can be stored inside in hangars more efficiently, desert weather does a lot to desert air frames so being able to store them inside is a bonus.
It would be neat if there were hangars at Mccarrin to support that theory, though if we consider their home base to be nellis there are hangars there so that could work.
My personal theory:
The ncr came across an air. Force boneyard and fixed them up with captured vertibird parts from navarro
As for it using the skytrain airframe instead of some nuclear powered nutjob: the plane is pre divergence so were fallout and our timeline were more or less the same
The folding wings have a striking similarity to the Grumman S-2 Tracker anti-submarine warfare aircraft. Though with the Tracker, the engines don't fold up with the wings like the planes in New Vegas.
C-47 Thicc Boy
If i had a guess, maybe they are not as old as you think. Maybe its like the C-130 Herculese of today. That first flew in 1954(?) and ot still in production today. All be it with modern tech.
Maybe its the same with the Skytrain in universe?
I’m thinking the pod is either a hard point, lights as you thought, some type of sensor, or possibly an air scoop.
If I had to put money down, it’s a tossup between lights or an air scoop.
the pod on the end of the wing could be something like a light pod for landing, a radar sweet, or a hard point for weapons of some sort
I mean, the pods on the wings COULD, be lights, but the Dakota already had landing lights installed flush with its wings, I don't understand why they would modify those lights and make them cause more drag, other than, well, style
@@commander_razor That could just be it. For style... it already has the odd ridges all over the body that would cos drag. I think the devs also might have thought it looked cool. Though thinking about it more, I do like the idea of it being a hard point for some rockets, MG, or lasers hell IRL the marinas took a drugless, ripped out a door and mad room for a cannon to stick out the side back in i think the 60s-70s XD
Personally I think the pods might have been extra air intakes to keep those nuclear engines cool and they just have covers on them. Also considering how they have nuke engines I doubt they were 1940's vintage and probably new (2077 new) at the time and used for sateside cargo and troop transport. Also McCarran airport as explained by some NCR personnel was fortified before the great war meaning it was converted into military air strip. So that rules out it being a civilian bird
I believe that those large intakes next to the engines are for the oil-cooling system for each engine since a lot of US aircraft from early-WWII had those protrusions for the oil-colling system including aircraft such as the single-engine Douglas TBD-1 Devastator torpedo bomber developed in 1934 and entering service in 1937. Or those protrusions could be air intakes so the engines could get a large amount of air to cool them.
5:38 HEY
My thought is it could be a NCR designed and produced aircraft. The NCR found the blueprints and added the folding wings to allow the aircraft to be kept in fortified locations. While the NCR has vista birds they might rely on their modified C47’s for carrying heavy goods safely and NCR rapid response teams.
I hope that's the plan,i don't think that the legion could do anything against planes
Love the paint job of your version!
As for planes being in services for ages... B-52 might survive long enough to become a centennial.
Those pods, first thougth would be some kind of cooler? Air intake? Or nuclear magic to make it go faster?
They likely just mirrored the plane down the center and forgot entirely about the doors. I actually do that a lot in plane building games, myself; I get so focused on making everything aerodynamic and getting the center of mass right that I forget about how people are supposed to get in lol! Though, they don't have that excuse because it doesn't even fly!
Ngl I do that a lot when I make assets too. I think to myself who is actually going to notice the one second of this rotation that doesn't have the McGuffin in the right place. So I do understand it, but I'm also not a paid artist so I can still judge a little right?
Its also believed by many that the 30's, 40's, 50's aesthetic was strong. That people actually designed new plan based on the old design. Under the idea that its a 'classic' and doesn't use valuable resources in this 'new' design. At the same time New Vegas and Fallout in general warn us about need to look back for nostalgia.
I was having a quick think, and I slapped together a few ideas, based on what you said, and what some commenters have said, with a touch of my own ideas.
These aircraft are C-316 "Skydancers", a STOL-capable multi-role aircraft that the US Military loosely based on the old C-47's (with some pre-production models actually having some refurbished C-47 parts incorporated in them); they're designed, as I said, to be multi-role machines, primarily as light cargo transports and advanced trainers, with some limited capacity for MEDIVAC and Paratrooper Operations.
In their role as trainer aircraft, they'd be used for training pilots and crew on multi-engine frames, navigation training and the like, maybe also basic jump training for paratroopers.
I think the pods on the wings are supposed to be oil coolers. A lot of planes of that era have oil coolers mounted on the wings
That was my thought too. Maybe it’s an oil cooler/ inter cooler combo. That would explain the large size of the pod.
So weirdly, there are still C-47s/DC-3s still flying today; and there are even upgrade/refit kits available that claim they will keep those same airframes flying for another 90 years... so weirdly it's not too far off believability that they could still be used
That's true, with enough love and care airframes can live for ages. Thank goodness too. A world without B-17s and P-51 mustangs would be a terrible world to live in.
Regarding your point of there being lots of empty space in the desert: Keeping the planes compacted with the wings folded up means they can be stored in a much smaller area, which is going to be considerably easier to keep under guard. Outside the walls of Camp McCarran, the planes will be subject to wasteland creatures nesting and wearing down the craft, the sandy desert air, raiders/scavengers cannibalizing the planes for parts, or even the possibility of Legionnaires hijacking any operational planes left out in the desert.
I can get behind this when you are assuming that the airframes were developed by the NCR post war. Operating under the assumption that they are prewar airframes though, the walls wouldn't have been there and the wasteland creatures wouldn't really have been a concern. The sand though, your right, would be bad for the planes, so from a space saving perspective that could make sense. Wish there were hangars though. Maybe they are supposed to be at Nellis in those hangers but were left at Mccarrin due to literal Armageddon.
@Spydingo I think it resembles more of a Curtiss C-46 Commando than a C-47. Like its literally a 1:1 of the C-46D!!
The B-52 entered service in 1955 and is now slated to continue service into the 2050s. So for a cargo plane, I don't think it's terrible unreasonable to see a long service life either, if the design... just works.
I think Oil coolers are the most likely explanation for the objects outboard of the engines, but it Fallout, so who knows?
My guess is that they were sitting either in a museum, scrap yard, bone yard, mothball facility or some other place where they were parked and forgotten about after being surplused (which, considering fallouts wierd progression in tech might actually not have happened that long before the great war)
And then, at some point, the NCR found the boneyard/museum, while searching for aircraft for their army. Because the US Government had been demothballing more recent designs to deal with shortages and a war of attrition, basically anything somewhat "modern" that the NCR mechanics found in the yards was damaged beyond reasonable repair, and these old planes, with their simple, purely mechanical combustion engines were much easier to get back running that some wierd nuclear drive thats malfunctioning
Yeah, the deserts of the southwest have a few good plane boneyards they might’ve been able to scrap together some usable machines out of
Oh silly you, where we are going we don't need doors Marty! *DOES KAMIKAZE*
While not Frontline service so C47s still see service in militaries with turbo props. So I think some planes would have gotten the B52 treatment and continued to be upgraded.
I think the pods are lights, but they could also be intakes. However i think that it is the former.
It could be old aircraft the NCR restored, they are known to have some kind of air force.
This and the presence of older diesel trains in New Vegas leads me to think that either a) the NCR imported them to run industry in the greater Mojave Wasteland, same as the old army cargo trucks you find in McCarran and the 188, or b) that the pre-war Southwest Commonwealth had a very poor techbase compared to the rest of the union, possibly due to a poor economy. Thus they had to break out museum pieces or have factories make them by those standards. Considering the horrible state of the world pre-war, being so bad that most of the world outside of the US and China were already post apocalyptic by the war, I could easily see that being the reason.
Ngl this thing feels like one of those things that only gets bad when you look at it for a while. The landing gear probably wouldn't fit anywhere, the radiators next to the engines make no sense, the wing folding would probably not be structurally sound, the exhausts would melt the wing and the cockpit would not be able to even see the runway on takeoff and landing. Not the worst aircraft fallout has made though lol
so, my brain says it could be a cheap modernized new production thing to give the national guard, thus saving the best of the best for the front lines. they probably used old tooling and modernized the design, i dont think they would have retrofitted anything from ww2 bc age. great vid btw
Maybe the pod is related somehow with the atomic powerplant cooling system?
In my imagination it uses the nuclear reactor to generate steam to turn blades linked to the propellers. Just like any generator but instead of having an dynamo it has the propellers.
Then the steam condense again on the radiator pod? Idk really :v
i think the giant pods on the wings are landing lights for night
Definitely think these guys are the first NCR indigenously created aircraft, hence the outdated and antiquated design!
The things on the wing could be for cool air to get into the engine more easily since it coule be a fusion engine and needs cooling
Do a video were you design a fighter that would make sense to the fallout usaf
Those are civilian airplanes, no army markings and the green is a bit different in tone. The skytrain had civilian versions after the war
Nice, always enjoy a good upload
thank you for todays awesome video❤ a true work of art as always
the only conclusion i could possibly draw as to why so many vehicles seem to be designed off of ancient real world vehicles, would possibly be that a side effect of being in a world where nuclear took off, is perhaps design concepts spent longer on the drawing boards🤔
as for the wing pods, perhaps that would be where the reactors would be fitted to power the engines?
I would've love to see one of these in the ac47 configuration and used by the NCR. It would've given them something to rival the boomers and i also just love the ac47 Spooky
A single spooky would decimate the legions morale
From that opening someone played OWB, and I don't mean the DLC
Have you tried designing a motor chariot for the legion?
Cargo space? No, car go plane.
my head cannon is they were there as part of a museum or as a training craft
Make a video about the zetan mothership
If it isnt broke don't fix it ig, they worked well enough in this timeline that army never replaced them and just upgraded them
I like to think they were kept in service despite age much like the b-52
The B-52 is probably going to outlive me! Shame its such unappealing airframe visually.
This is my personal take but these probably aren't old models that were refurbished rather these models were produced before the bombs were dropped and shipped to the airport.
It would make more sense than came from mothballing.
awww man , meatgrinder sounded so good , i thought it was actual lore . sad noises
DC-47
You say that she is waaaay too old to still be in service and yet the B-52 is slated to serve until at least 2045 (having entered service in the 1950’s) while there is extreme interest in bring back the PBY Catalina into mainstream service, both for civilian and military/government use. Now, I will admit that the C-47 isn’t as logical a choice (especially as a tail sitter cargo plane which is waaaaay less efficient than a tricycle landing gear plane) but still…
As for why a folding wing aircraft is in the desert, if you’re correct about it being a multi-service cargo plane that could land on carriers, one theoretical possibility is that the NCR Air Force is made of a wide variety of aircraft and naval C-47’s just happened to be available for transport runs out to Vegas
If one looks closely at the wings of some airliners, they do have sponsons on their wings. What exactly they’re used for, I don’t know, but them being on this plane is logical
Could you maybe do a video on the B-100 Allied Condor from Wolfenstein the new order?
Top ten goofyest Bombers
Maybe it's really big light on the wing
I think this is the case. When I was taking a look at a few color images of the C-47 it looked like those pods are lights. The designer in NV just decided to exaggerate them to 11.
Isn't camp McCarran a civilian airport military be there not further west they can always be there for air shows or they're getting ready to be flown to museums now on museum specifically for military planes here in the US also could you love you then USS Constitution next and a neat fact about it is that she is still in service and has her own forest just for her
Do the titanfall/apex paladin tanks
I do wonder what the interior looks like the plane
If I had to guess, like a C-47 in an advanced state of disrepair. Like one of those project planes that has been sitting on the tarmac with birds living inside type of thing.
I don’t think these are atomic powered to be honest. Fallout is mostly atomic yes but for those who are familiar with it the military were still primary users of fossil fuels… the price is too high for civilian use at that general time of Fallout’s time frame but the US military are exempt from those prices which is why i think they still use conventional aircraft rather then seeing giants like the B-36 peace maker which was atomic powered IRL. Now the most pointless thing about this aircraft though is the folding wings… that is strictly a naval thing for aircraft carriers so a land base twin engine cargo and paratrooper aircraft it is pointless to have all that added weight and complexity on a aircraft used on land base airfields that would be stored in conventional hangers. The only reason the area we see these aircraft parked in is so small is because the NCR built on the airport rather then keeping it open to actually use the aircraft
I have almost 10k hours in new vegas over multiple playthroughs.
damn, respect
@@spydingo 15k hours in fallout 3 and 11k hours in 1, 2 and Tactics combined.
Also do you have a discord?
I do! ngl though I'm not particularly active in it myself. Between the full time job, creating videos, and responding to comments, I just don't seem to find the time. Good people there though, we would be happy to have you! discord.gg/cvmad5wse9
@@spydingo nice thank you, I like discussing how this type of stuff works in chats 😀