The reason why smog has low accuracy is probably the same reason early rock moves had low accuracy, to benefit the player against the AI, so that you aren't poisoned constantly when facing rockets in this case.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonI’d really like to see a Gen 1 run with updated stats for the Pokémon and moves. Like how does a 70 base power Leech Life on Zubat affect it’s time or how and extra 5 or 10 points to a base stat on a Pokémon changes it’s ranges?
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I agree, but maybe it makes more sense to backport Magcargo? Fire/Rock is interesting for gen one, and it has equal Special Attack/Defense
Six to say your backport videos have served as some of your most entertaining content to date so I do hope to see a "What if Slugma was in Gen 1?" run someday. Hope it proves to be as rewarding for you as you're hoping for if you do eventually do it.
Considering how good Amnesia was in Gen 1, seeing Slugma use it in a backport has me very intrigued (I’m also very fascinated but terrified by how Magcargo would perform in Crystal). Awesome video!
I think the idea behind Johto Pokemon being locked to Kanto was to give you more to do in Kanto, you know, catch new Pokemon. But yeah, when they're especially weak, it's not a great incentive.
It would maybe work if Kanto was somewhat a challenge but we just breeze through it, no way the player is gonna take time to train a new pokemon at this point especially with the vivid memory that it take ages to level up in this game We did at Mr Silver because Red gave us a reality check but that's all
I wish they did something like confiscate your pokemons and force you to restart the entire game in Kanto with a new starter but higher level (because all trainers are much higher level here) Say a lvl 30 starter and you have to train your entire team back. Of course adapt wild pokemon level they are now all lvl 25 or something. Lore wise trainers from Johto are weaker because Pokemon started in Kanto, it is normal to see all gym leaders being about as strong as the strongest gym leader in Johto. And all randoms trainers are also much stronger then the losers in Johto.
Being able to get a bunch of gen1 pokemon that weren't available in Johto would have been a fine incentive for me at least. I think it's not just a few mons. I replayed Silver just recently and for me Johto really should have focused more on the newest 100, including making them more common and having more trainers use them. For example, that neither of the first two gym leaders have a single gen2 mon feels really silly to me. Part of their purpose should be to show off what the latest additions to the series can do. Faulkner could have had a hoothoot rather than his pidgey, and instead of his metapod and kakuna Bugsy could have had pineco, yanma, ledyba or spinarak. Could even have replaced his scyther with a heracross.
@@inventiveusername5191 You really notice that Johto was made more as an add-on to gen 1 than its own region. People blather on about how great Johto's postgame is, but I'm glad slowly the nostalgia-riddled genwunner opinion is being phased out and that Johto really suffered from cramming Kanto into it.
I cannot express my loathing for this Pokémon enough. I rarely ever dislike a Pokémon but my experience with this mon has never been good. But I am excited to watch this
Fun fact, the odds of Chuck hitting hypnosis in to two dynamic punches are 11.25%. The odds of hitting four dynamic punches in a row are 6.25%. Hypnosis in to 4 hits with dynamic punch would be 2.8125%. Those are about 1/9, 1/16 and 2/71. (Exactly 1/8.88 repeating, 1/16 and 1/35.5 repeating.)
Slugma being locked in Kanto was incredibly baffling. At least with some of the Pokémon there you can say it's exciting to finally get them (even if they really should be available earlier). But who gets to Kanto, sees Slugma for the first time, and goes, "Oh wow, this was worth the wait!"? (Still mad Houndour's locked into Kanto.)
Happy to hear some appreciation for Slugma; he's an adorable fella. I also never got to use this Pokémon back in Gen 2; only in Pokémon Stadium 2 and Pokémon Soul Silver. 3:07 - Lucky that Crystal version added these pre-first gym Hoppip's to aid Kanto the Slugma here. Also, love the name of Kanto for Slugma here. 8:06 - Neat, the Hiker outside Union Cave has artwork for him. Love the chill blue theme and vibe he gives off. 11:26 - I would have gone for a Mud Slap strategy myself but Rollout worked out. 13:53 - It amazes me that the Hiker got an artwork before Bird Keeper Dennis. 15:39 - The fortune is finally starting to favour Kanto the Slugma with the Burned Tower rival fight and this here Morty fight. 18:10 - Okay, perhaps I spoke too soon about luck being on Slugma's side now. That Dynamic Punch situation was most unfortunate. 20:58 - I know Slugma has better special attack but I figured that Seel's lower physical defence would have made Rock Slide the more viable option. Though I just now remember that you are using a Slugma, not a Marcargo; that extra STAB and special attack combined would make Flamethrower superior in most situations. 23:40 - So even on a mere 43 HP, the rest of the rival's team was not a challenge to Slugma. Good to know. 26:10 - Awesome to see the Fire type hotter than the sun utilise the power of the sun. Always nice when weather effects come into play with your videos. 30:12 - The battle of the Johto Fire types both found within Kanto. You beat fire with fire... and then lost to Grass. 31:57 - Kanto had been storing up all his luck for this moment. So cool to see the Rock Slide flinch at play in this playthrough; certainly unexpected given you're using a slow Pokémon. 35:54 - Slugma may have had a slow run but a successful first go against Red is incredibly rare. Fantastic to see. 37:37 - Happy to see the Mud Slap strategy come into play. It seemed the natural choice for a lot of your situations so I was surprised it wasn't more common. 40:31 - The buff Slugma so desperately needs whilst still keeping it true to itself; more Special Attack diversity. Hidden Power Ice is working out so well for it. Gen 2 lacks that whole Physical/Special split but why is Slugma's movepool so limited in latter games (given it starts off with Smog, you think it would access to Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb). It should have most the move options of fellow slugs such as Goomy/Sligoo and Gastrodon. 42:23 - I adore Slugma, but I know they aren't great, so at least avoiding the Bruno tier is pleasant enough news for me.
Bouth slugma and macargo belong to the "Pokemon I really wanted to own" club! Something just clicked in side me when I saw the two slug pokemon, to bad they turned out to be hot garbadge. :^(
Great job Scott! I think the friendship hurt the return a lot against Claire. Maybe because the Slugma kept fainting, lowering the power of return but I’m not sure if those faints were saved or not.
So many worisum pokemon to look farward to. Dotto, magcargo, up coming wooper, and more. I look farward to your suffering. I mean, good luck.👍 ...Actualy, I look farward to you finding unique and clever ways to solve them. Those are the best parts of your videos.
Sweet that you back port slugma to Gen 2. Everyone knows it's only found in the volcano pass area in Gen 3. Nice try Scott! Before someone gets upset, this is sarcasm
I always liked them too! Magcargo’s Fire Rock typing is such trash though… I did a blind egg playthrough of X and Y once and one of the Pokémon I got was Slugma. It didn’t perform very well…
You can just tell that they just catered to competitive stuff after Gen 5. Everything else wavers save maybe the aesthetics of the Pokémon and even then.
Might be late saying this, but I think Magcargo’s stats more than make up for its double weaknesses. Its defense is tripled, its special defense is doubled, and it also gains a slight boost to health. Sadly, it only gets a slight boost to its attacking stats.
Yeah, it surprises me how many often assume Magcargo is tougher, sure the double weakness and all.. but I've done both in a solo run, and the evolution makes such a huge difference. The better stats, amnesia, stab with it's rock moves, and given how easy you can get up during important battles with water trainers. I honestly thought Slugma was brutal, especially early game; but Magcargo was a welcomed relaxing run tbh.
@@SillyInsaneGamer Also, the rock typing affects 5 types negatively: Fighting, Steel, Ground, Water, and Grass. Because of the triple defence boost, Fighting, Steel, and Ground Type moves (Gen2-Gen3) should actually be weaker against Magcargo even though they are more effective. Water and Grass should do about the same, but it has slightly more health so percentage-wise, it should take more hits. This is all assuming that base stats are completely equal with each other (I don't know the exact formula). That typing also gives it a resistance to Normal and Flying which is really useful. Technically, it also gets a resistance to Poison and a double resistance to Fire which really don't matter all that much. I initially thought that the advantage Slugma gets would be an earlier level up learnset, but the only moves it benefits from are Rock Slide and Body Slam. The rest of Magcargo's learnset is either earlier or the same, which I think kinda gets rid of most reasons to start a game with Slugma over Magcargo. Magcargo even learns more TM's (both in Gen2 and Gen3). I thought I'd share more of my thoughts.
Yea, flamethrower and Rock slide just pack a punch, combined with amnesia, Bodyslam is just a fine move to pack on types that resist it :) It learns Earthquake, which helps out a bit here and there, but tbh, I didn't use it much if I recall.. been a while since I did that solo run LOL! Nearly done 105 in Gen2, giving how slugma was an early one, I also can't recall much.. Crystal does offer some additional small changes, but I doubt it affects Slugma all too much.. you know what run is brutal though, Tyrogue LOL... seen that movepool? @@mikeblades4839
Not sure if this would help, but in training Slugma to lvl 23, you could train most of the way before beating Bugsy, which would allow you to train much more easily by using ember on mons in the forest (because you can enter the forest without triggering the rival fight)
To answer your question on why the elite four has bad moves, It's because they're so hard for that point in the game. My romhack has a fully decked out Elite Four, and I honestly need a full heal between each one. I'm talking meta Smogon moves, fully powered moves, an Umbreon with Psychic to deal with fighting types, Hi Jump Kick on Hitmonchan since it's an egg move, they are not joking around. You're supposed to be there at like level 35, where a lot of pokemon aren't evolved yet. Not to mention not having great moves. What level does Charizard learn Flamethrower, like mid 50s? You're not getting that in time for the league. And Rhyhorn evolves at 42, which is so hard to get by then. So they nerf the pokemon by giving them mediocre moves. With a team at their mid 30s, with a fully decked out Elite Four, I was getting through each fight with one pokemon left at 20% health in my hack. I think in a normal playthrough, I lost maybe two or three pokemon, and otherwise swept easily. Now, why does Brock have a Rhyhorn? That's a good question. At that point I feel like you should have fully evolved pokemon. You have plenty of chances to level up after all.
Scott, sorry if you mentioned this anywhere and I missed, but I believe you can buy Charcoal in Azealea's Town PokeMart after you finish the Farfetch portion of the Ilex Forest. Maybe it would be helpful for Fire-Types, if you have the cash to afford it at that point in the game? Love your content!! :)
I think Hidden Power Grass would have been the better choice as it would deal super effective damage on Chuck’s Poliwrath, Will’s Slowbro, Blue’s Rhydon, the Rival’s Croconaw, and all of Misty’s and Brock’s team. HP grass still deals neutral damage to Kingdra.
So, I'm going to predict that Wooper will do extremely well once you get to Goldenrod and beyond. It does ave a quad weakness to Grass but there's not a lot of dangerous grass types in Johto, and since you already are skipping Sprout tower usually that doesn't hurt it. My precious Woopie Boi gets access to Ice Punch, and we've seen time and time again what an indicator access to a decent ice-type move is for 'mons in this gen. Not only is this an answer to grass types, it also gets access to Amnesia like Slugma did, meaning it can have a similar endgame moveset. It gets STAB earthquake, and because of Ice Punch it can leave Hidden Power open for something else. Yeah, its Specials are in the gutter but I still think it'll be ok.
Theory: Slugma was originally designed to use the slow level up curve (because he's a slug) and set to evolve in the 32-36 range, but after they shifted it to medium-fast, they adjusted the level to an awkward 39.
awesome video I've always loved slugma and magcargo I used one in Pokemon colosseum and it's was tough to use but had very good defense could take those physical hits pretty good just 4 times weakness is a problem for sure keep up your wonderful content can't wait for the next one gonna be fun for sure thanks for all your hard work
Ahhhh I’m early to a Scott video so my comment is algorithmically relevant. I never had a lot of time for fire types, let alone Slugma so I can’t wait to learn 🎉
Ok! Now I’ve watched it. Great stuff as always! I think I forget how much time passes for you. I was rewatching the Victreebell race earlier and when you said how long Slugma took I balked! I forget how compared with some of the higher tiers these little guys can DRAG. Way way down the line you should arrange another race but only for the most bottom rung of Pokemon, or something like that. This data must be tested!
I grew up with a gen 2 handbook from Scholastic, so I never associated Slugma with Gen 3. I would love to know what the devs were planning when in the pre-Kanto stage of development, when Proto-Snowpoint was still in the game.
Seventh and final to pose the question, what happens if you do a run with Slugma starting out with Body Slam, Curse, Amnesia, and Rest? Would you be able to take its finishing time to an hour and a half or under this way or is the Johto portion of the run just too hard on it to significantly shave off time?
I received a shiny magcargo in Ultra Moon. I used it throughout the playthrough and it was level 60 when I received it. It was poor at dealing damage, I still liked it though since it had flame body.
Hi Scott, if you're reading this was just wondering if you plan on running cloyster on Pokemon Yellow any time soon. Love the vids - keep it up big guy xoxo
Fun fact, because of the 70% accuracy, smog is technically worse than poison sting...... (15 base power hits 100% of the time, vs 20 bp at 70% = 14 effective base power.....), not to mention the poison chance is functionally worse. (Poison sting, hits 100% and has 30% to poison, vs hits 70% and 40% chance to poison means 28% effective poison chance) I mean I suppose that if you had really good luck, Smog would work better, but in terms of consistency Poison sting actually has smog beat lmao. Gen 5 at least gave it a base power increase to 30, and with the addition of accuracy boosting (Wide Lens is gen 4+, Compound Eyes 3+, etc), it is at least more useful.
I always thought it was kinda lame to be the one trainer in the dragon gym with only Horseas and Seadra… but I gave Slugma pause. At least I did something. (There’s also a Fisher Cody in Gen 4 and I think there’s another somewhere else…)
Speaking of backporting... would it be possible for you to create a pokemon? Like, stats of one pokemon with the type of another one and the name/sprite of another? Chosen randomly for a playthrough?
For some reason i forgot you don't evolve your mons during these challenges. And I was admiring your strategic prowess in holding off Magcargo until after Chuck, because of those pesky x4 weaknesses to him. I felt a little stupid after. But a great run nonetheless
28:08 man, you overestimate how good we were at pokemon as kids. for every kid like you routing it out, there were 10 trying to beat slowbro with level 38 ledian using comet punch.
Alllmost, almost put this on my Emerald team just recently. I’ve always kinda liked Slugma and Magcargo, but they’re just so garbage, especially before Magcargo got the extra 10 points in its special attack.
18:00 So I just checked, and the odds of the AI hitting a Hypnosis and two Dynamic Punches, all in a row, is a mere 11.5% (60% x 0.75 due to AI debuff * 50% * 50%)
Considering Smog has a whopping 40% chance to poison, I'd say the lower accuracy is justified. It doesn't make it a good move, but at least there is some logic behind it.
A factoid is untrue information repeated so much it gets treated as truth. So being able to fight Blue first in Kanto is just a fact. Second, have you considered adding damage ranges to the overlay? You already have all the information visible that would be used to calculate them, and you are dynamically calculating effecting move power on the fly already. I would understand not having it show on first play throughs so you can get a more “authentic” experience, but on second play throughs you’ve already calculated the ranges in routing. Maybe it might help speed things up and improve reliability
Yes. I have considered it. Even programmed it. But for now I don’t want to implement it. It takes away some level of player choice and dramatic tension.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonmakes sense. Putting a bit more thought into it, it would definitely remove a lot of the tension from the “will this kill?” Moments if the viewer already had the answer before you have spoken.
Scott, I’m sorry if I missed this, but why do you have the rival pick the starter that’s your’s weakness? Isn’t the goal to take the fastest/easiest route?
He picks the starter strongest against his Pokémon to maintain the spirit of the original version, where the rival picks the starter strongest against yours.
Feels wrong to force the easiest starter. Especially in gen2 because these are by far the easiest games I play on the channel. I like having as much challenge as is possible.
Slugma is some slow slug 😂😂,even though I always thought that it was a fire snail 😅. My first Slugma was once I did a run as a kid with only fire types that could be obtained in a vanilla playthrough. I remember how bad it was to grind it all the way up until it would evolve.😊 So I was wasn't surprised that it would struggle at some point in the playthrough. Its speed and its defensive capabilities are what most can cause most if its problems for this run. I'm not sure if Wooper could do better than Slugma though. But I do want to see at some point both of thier final evolutions on a versus video, because they are kind of similar in a sense.🤔
When I saw Slugma and Magcargo for the first time in Pokémon sapphire, I thought to myself how cool this Pokémon is. And then I used it in battle and realised how awful it is in combat. Its such a shame because the design is beautiful. This is one of those Pokémon that need either an evolution or a buff by gamefreak.
This is why cool Pokémon should not be trusted. While there are some cool Pokémon, like Drapion and Tyranitar that do well in playthroughs and competitively, Pokémon that are very cool always suck.
I'm pretty sure that smog is so bad to make the game easier for. In a normal play through it is basically an enemy (team rocket) move. Sometimes it helps to think about those games as normal jrps some design decisions make much more sense with that lens.
If you do a backport of Slugma, please make its special out of its special attack. While Slugma is supposed to kinda suck, I don’t think Gamefreak would make a Pokémon work straight 40 in stats and half the amount in speed. Also, even most bad Pokémon in Gen 1, that can complete the game, has something going for them stat wise
Something ive been thinking about for some pokemon since berries are limited and when you are picking up return etc some battles might be won with a berry if you take the time to pick them up
This pokemon, does any trainer have it in gen 2? A few years ago when I started watching Scott, I learned this is a gen 2 mon. Before that I would have confidently said it is a gen 3 mon. I dont even know where to catch it in gen 2.
Oh man… you thought Slugma was bad at the Rival fight in Azalea, Magcargo will probably worse. Chuck should be too with the rock weakness to fighting and water. I think it’ll give Sunflora and Jumpluff a run for the worst evolved run in Johto. Lol
The reason why smog has low accuracy is probably the same reason early rock moves had low accuracy, to benefit the player against the AI, so that you aren't poisoned constantly when facing rockets in this case.
Couldn't they have just added a special debuff to NPC pokemon using smog?
I like this logic a lot.
Its funny cause I am almost always poisoned whenever I actually am hit with smog so that could be the reason lol
@@johngleeman8347 They did, sorta, in Gen 2 all Status moves used by the AI has a miss chance
Exactly. Just add smog to the NPC increased miss chance list and buff smog's accuracy! XD@@hawkticus_history_corner
Please do the backport for slugma, sounds interesting
Okay :)
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonI’d really like to see a Gen 1 run with updated stats for the Pokémon and moves.
Like how does a 70 base power Leech Life on Zubat affect it’s time or how and extra 5 or 10 points to a base stat on a Pokémon changes it’s ranges?
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon actually I agree. It might be its only time to shine. Slugma only got worse over the generations.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I agree, but maybe it makes more sense to backport Magcargo? Fire/Rock is interesting for gen one, and it has equal Special Attack/Defense
A backport of shuckle is interesting as well
Six to say your backport videos have served as some of your most entertaining content to date so I do hope to see a "What if Slugma was in Gen 1?" run someday. Hope it proves to be as rewarding for you as you're hoping for if you do eventually do it.
Six to say?
Considering how good Amnesia was in Gen 1, seeing Slugma use it in a backport has me very intrigued (I’m also very fascinated but terrified by how Magcargo would perform in Crystal). Awesome video!
Yeah! I want to try Amnesia Fire-types in gen1.
I think the idea behind Johto Pokemon being locked to Kanto was to give you more to do in Kanto, you know, catch new Pokemon. But yeah, when they're especially weak, it's not a great incentive.
It would maybe work if Kanto was somewhat a challenge but we just breeze through it, no way the player is gonna take time to train a new pokemon at this point especially with the vivid memory that it take ages to level up in this game
We did at Mr Silver because Red gave us a reality check but that's all
I wish they did something like confiscate your pokemons and force you to restart the entire game in Kanto with a new starter but higher level (because all trainers are much higher level here) Say a lvl 30 starter and you have to train your entire team back. Of course adapt wild pokemon level they are now all lvl 25 or something. Lore wise trainers from Johto are weaker because Pokemon started in Kanto, it is normal to see all gym leaders being about as strong as the strongest gym leader in Johto. And all randoms trainers are also much stronger then the losers in Johto.
Being able to get a bunch of gen1 pokemon that weren't available in Johto would have been a fine incentive for me at least.
I think it's not just a few mons. I replayed Silver just recently and for me Johto really should have focused more on the newest 100, including making them more common and having more trainers use them. For example, that neither of the first two gym leaders have a single gen2 mon feels really silly to me. Part of their purpose should be to show off what the latest additions to the series can do. Faulkner could have had a hoothoot rather than his pidgey, and instead of his metapod and kakuna Bugsy could have had pineco, yanma, ledyba or spinarak. Could even have replaced his scyther with a heracross.
@@inventiveusername5191 You really notice that Johto was made more as an add-on to gen 1 than its own region.
People blather on about how great Johto's postgame is, but I'm glad slowly the nostalgia-riddled genwunner opinion is being phased out and that Johto really suffered from cramming Kanto into it.
"I hope level 46 will be enough to beat Chuck" is a sentence that's never been said before
Magcargo would probably be harder, an extra weakness plus water would be quad stronger and grass actually becomes neutral
I agree but Slugma kind of gets the better Lv up moves/TM's though.
Yeah... Magcargo is going to be rough.
@@veghesther3204 well that's why I said it would be harder
gets 2x the SpDef tho. And there's very little grass here, in exchange for some useful rock resistances, especially early game
On the other hand, it would have rock through and ember to start with.
Am just happy to see that crystal version's chuck has the poliwrath whose dynamicpunch also has the same effect as swift.
first move until level 8 is smog, a move with 20 power, no STAB and 70% accuracy, well at least it learns flamethrower
Slugma was my first ever shiny! It will always hold a special place in my heart for that
Scott: ...another really bad pokemon: ...only a Wooper.
SmallAnt: And I took that personally.
Slugma and Magcargo have been some of my favorites since gen 3, when I actually got to use them! Yes, he’s trash, but he’s so cute!
I cannot express my loathing for this Pokémon enough. I rarely ever dislike a Pokémon but my experience with this mon has never been good. But I am excited to watch this
Body Slam woulda kinda been clutch.. the chance for paralysis is clutch for slow Pokémon Good vid Ghoul
I always thought Skarmory was from Emerald since it's easier to find there.
Wooper might not be the strongest Pokémon, but at least it is a lovely derp, so nice to see how it will perform next time.
Fun fact, the odds of Chuck hitting hypnosis in to two dynamic punches are 11.25%. The odds of hitting four dynamic punches in a row are 6.25%. Hypnosis in to 4 hits with dynamic punch would be 2.8125%. Those are about 1/9, 1/16 and 2/71. (Exactly 1/8.88 repeating, 1/16 and 1/35.5 repeating.)
Can't believe this madlad nicknamed Slugma "Kanto" when it is clearly a Hoenn Pokemon
That thumbnail has to be the cutest Slugma ever.
"It's so sad Professor Oak died of Slugma"
"Who's Professor Oak?"
"Slugma berries"
…
Slugma being locked in Kanto was incredibly baffling. At least with some of the Pokémon there you can say it's exciting to finally get them (even if they really should be available earlier). But who gets to Kanto, sees Slugma for the first time, and goes, "Oh wow, this was worth the wait!"?
(Still mad Houndour's locked into Kanto.)
I thought Slugma was a gen 3 Pokemon until I saw some random shorts video explaining it was gen 2.
ah yes, slugma, the pokemon where every time i see it, i think "oh yeah, that one, from gen 3 right?"
Happy to hear some appreciation for Slugma; he's an adorable fella. I also never got to use this Pokémon back in Gen 2; only in Pokémon Stadium 2 and Pokémon Soul Silver.
3:07 - Lucky that Crystal version added these pre-first gym Hoppip's to aid Kanto the Slugma here. Also, love the name of Kanto for Slugma here.
8:06 - Neat, the Hiker outside Union Cave has artwork for him. Love the chill blue theme and vibe he gives off.
11:26 - I would have gone for a Mud Slap strategy myself but Rollout worked out.
13:53 - It amazes me that the Hiker got an artwork before Bird Keeper Dennis.
15:39 - The fortune is finally starting to favour Kanto the Slugma with the Burned Tower rival fight and this here Morty fight.
18:10 - Okay, perhaps I spoke too soon about luck being on Slugma's side now. That Dynamic Punch situation was most unfortunate.
20:58 - I know Slugma has better special attack but I figured that Seel's lower physical defence would have made Rock Slide the more viable option. Though I just now remember that you are using a Slugma, not a Marcargo; that extra STAB and special attack combined would make Flamethrower superior in most situations.
23:40 - So even on a mere 43 HP, the rest of the rival's team was not a challenge to Slugma. Good to know.
26:10 - Awesome to see the Fire type hotter than the sun utilise the power of the sun. Always nice when weather effects come into play with your videos.
30:12 - The battle of the Johto Fire types both found within Kanto. You beat fire with fire... and then lost to Grass.
31:57 - Kanto had been storing up all his luck for this moment. So cool to see the Rock Slide flinch at play in this playthrough; certainly unexpected given you're using a slow Pokémon.
35:54 - Slugma may have had a slow run but a successful first go against Red is incredibly rare. Fantastic to see.
37:37 - Happy to see the Mud Slap strategy come into play. It seemed the natural choice for a lot of your situations so I was surprised it wasn't more common.
40:31 - The buff Slugma so desperately needs whilst still keeping it true to itself; more Special Attack diversity. Hidden Power Ice is working out so well for it. Gen 2 lacks that whole Physical/Special split but why is Slugma's movepool so limited in latter games (given it starts off with Smog, you think it would access to Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb). It should have most the move options of fellow slugs such as Goomy/Sligoo and Gastrodon.
42:23 - I adore Slugma, but I know they aren't great, so at least avoiding the Bruno tier is pleasant enough news for me.
Bouth slugma and macargo belong to the "Pokemon I really wanted to own" club!
Something just clicked in side me when I saw the two slug pokemon, to bad they turned out to be hot garbadge. :^(
I assume Slugma evolves at such a late level because you could only catch it, normally, very late in the game
"If I used Dynamic Punch twice in a row, it would have found a way to miss four times in a row"
Great job Scott!
I think the friendship hurt the return a lot against Claire. Maybe because the Slugma kept fainting, lowering the power of return but I’m not sure if those faints were saved or not.
Faints weren’t saved, so friendship remained high.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon okay cool beans!
2:57 It's saying something when a *Fire-type* has to run away from Weedle. Like, that's not normal.
I would make that one slugma joke, but I have standards.
So many worisum pokemon to look farward to. Dotto, magcargo, up coming wooper, and more. I look farward to your suffering. I mean, good luck.👍
...Actualy, I look farward to you finding unique and clever ways to solve them. Those are the best parts of your videos.
Wobbuffet fact: Wobbuffet was the first non legendary pokemon that got in the smogon uber competetive tier
That poliwrath....bruno needs a couple of them.
Sweet that you back port slugma to Gen 2. Everyone knows it's only found in the volcano pass area in Gen 3. Nice try Scott!
Before someone gets upset, this is sarcasm
Big fan of this guy. I really hope it does a good job. I'm not so sure it will, but it deserves the best.
I always liked the slugma line but they were admittedly pretty bad i hope this run goes better than expected :)
I always liked them too! Magcargo’s Fire Rock typing is such trash though… I did a blind egg playthrough of X and Y once and one of the Pokémon I got was Slugma. It didn’t perform very well…
I think it's funny to compare Smog to Nuzzle. Nuzzle is a great move, despite it's 20 power. It's 100% accurate, amd guarantees paralysis.
Omg… that comparison makes me so sad.
Paralysis is way better too…
Ughhhh
You can just tell that they just catered to competitive stuff after Gen 5. Everything else wavers save maybe the aesthetics of the Pokémon and even then.
There are no bad pokemon, only not enough love.
Might be late saying this, but I think Magcargo’s stats more than make up for its double weaknesses. Its defense is tripled, its special defense is doubled, and it also gains a slight boost to health. Sadly, it only gets a slight boost to its attacking stats.
Yeah, it surprises me how many often assume Magcargo is tougher, sure the double weakness and all.. but I've done both in a solo run, and the evolution makes such a huge difference. The better stats, amnesia, stab with it's rock moves, and given how easy you can get up during important battles with water trainers.
I honestly thought Slugma was brutal, especially early game; but Magcargo was a welcomed relaxing run tbh.
@@SillyInsaneGamer Also, the rock typing affects 5 types negatively: Fighting, Steel, Ground, Water, and Grass. Because of the triple defence boost, Fighting, Steel, and Ground Type moves (Gen2-Gen3) should actually be weaker against Magcargo even though they are more effective. Water and Grass should do about the same, but it has slightly more health so percentage-wise, it should take more hits. This is all assuming that base stats are completely equal with each other (I don't know the exact formula). That typing also gives it a resistance to Normal and Flying which is really useful. Technically, it also gets a resistance to Poison and a double resistance to Fire which really don't matter all that much. I initially thought that the advantage Slugma gets would be an earlier level up learnset, but the only moves it benefits from are Rock Slide and Body Slam. The rest of Magcargo's learnset is either earlier or the same, which I think kinda gets rid of most reasons to start a game with Slugma over Magcargo. Magcargo even learns more TM's (both in Gen2 and Gen3). I thought I'd share more of my thoughts.
Yea, flamethrower and Rock slide just pack a punch, combined with amnesia, Bodyslam is just a fine move to pack on types that resist it :)
It learns Earthquake, which helps out a bit here and there, but tbh, I didn't use it much if I recall.. been a while since I did that solo run LOL! Nearly done 105 in Gen2, giving how slugma was an early one, I also can't recall much.. Crystal does offer some additional small changes, but I doubt it affects Slugma all too much.. you know what run is brutal though, Tyrogue LOL... seen that movepool? @@mikeblades4839
Not sure if this would help, but in training Slugma to lvl 23, you could train most of the way before beating Bugsy, which would allow you to train much more easily by using ember on mons in the forest (because you can enter the forest without triggering the rival fight)
Because the mons in the forest are higher level and mostly weak to fire, as opposed to the mons in the cave
To answer your question on why the elite four has bad moves,
It's because they're so hard for that point in the game.
My romhack has a fully decked out Elite Four, and I honestly need a full heal between each one. I'm talking meta Smogon moves, fully powered moves, an Umbreon with Psychic to deal with fighting types, Hi Jump Kick on Hitmonchan since it's an egg move, they are not joking around.
You're supposed to be there at like level 35, where a lot of pokemon aren't evolved yet. Not to mention not having great moves.
What level does Charizard learn Flamethrower, like mid 50s? You're not getting that in time for the league. And Rhyhorn evolves at 42, which is so hard to get by then. So they nerf the pokemon by giving them mediocre moves.
With a team at their mid 30s, with a fully decked out Elite Four, I was getting through each fight with one pokemon left at 20% health in my hack. I think in a normal playthrough, I lost maybe two or three pokemon, and otherwise swept easily.
Now, why does Brock have a Rhyhorn? That's a good question. At that point I feel like you should have fully evolved pokemon. You have plenty of chances to level up after all.
Scott, sorry if you mentioned this anywhere and I missed, but I believe you can buy Charcoal in Azealea's Town PokeMart after you finish the Farfetch portion of the Ilex Forest. Maybe it would be helpful for Fire-Types, if you have the cash to afford it at that point in the game?
Love your content!! :)
You can actually get one for free from one of the guys in the house just south of the poke mart.
I think Hidden Power Grass would have been the better choice as it would deal super effective damage on Chuck’s Poliwrath, Will’s Slowbro, Blue’s Rhydon, the Rival’s Croconaw, and all of Misty’s and Brock’s team. HP grass still deals neutral damage to Kingdra.
So, I'm going to predict that Wooper will do extremely well once you get to Goldenrod and beyond. It does ave a quad weakness to Grass but there's not a lot of dangerous grass types in Johto, and since you already are skipping Sprout tower usually that doesn't hurt it. My precious Woopie Boi gets access to Ice Punch, and we've seen time and time again what an indicator access to a decent ice-type move is for 'mons in this gen. Not only is this an answer to grass types, it also gets access to Amnesia like Slugma did, meaning it can have a similar endgame moveset. It gets STAB earthquake, and because of Ice Punch it can leave Hidden Power open for something else. Yeah, its Specials are in the gutter but I still think it'll be ok.
Theory: Slugma was originally designed to use the slow level up curve (because he's a slug) and set to evolve in the 32-36 range, but after they shifted it to medium-fast, they adjusted the level to an awkward 39.
awesome video I've always loved slugma and magcargo I used one in Pokemon colosseum and it's was tough to use but had very good defense could take those physical hits pretty good just 4 times weakness is a problem for sure keep up your wonderful content can't wait for the next one gonna be fun for sure thanks for all your hard work
Ahhhh I’m early to a Scott video so my comment is algorithmically relevant. I never had a lot of time for fire types, let alone Slugma so I can’t wait to learn 🎉
Ok! Now I’ve watched it. Great stuff as always! I think I forget how much time passes for you. I was rewatching the Victreebell race earlier and when you said how long Slugma took I balked! I forget how compared with some of the higher tiers these little guys can DRAG.
Way way down the line you should arrange another race but only for the most bottom rung of Pokemon, or something like that. This data must be tested!
i love this adorable little slug
I grew up with a gen 2 handbook from Scholastic, so I never associated Slugma with Gen 3. I would love to know what the devs were planning when in the pre-Kanto stage of development, when Proto-Snowpoint was still in the game.
Man I love me a Scott’s Thoughts run
Seventh and final to pose the question, what happens if you do a run with Slugma starting out with Body Slam, Curse, Amnesia, and Rest? Would you be able to take its finishing time to an hour and a half or under this way or is the Johto portion of the run just too hard on it to significantly shave off time?
That’s an interesting question…
Can't believe Slugma got 6 resets against Chuck but only had to reset against Red because of a silly turn 1 crit :/
Yeah this was a surprising run for me!
I love Wooper!! Can't wait for that
I received a shiny magcargo in Ultra Moon. I used it throughout the playthrough and it was level 60 when I received it. It was poor at dealing damage, I still liked it though since it had flame body.
Hi Scott, if you're reading this was just wondering if you plan on running cloyster on Pokemon Yellow any time soon. Love the vids - keep it up big guy xoxo
No plans for Cloyster soon. But it will be done, don’t worry!
Fun fact, because of the 70% accuracy, smog is technically worse than poison sting...... (15 base power hits 100% of the time, vs 20 bp at 70% = 14 effective base power.....), not to mention the poison chance is functionally worse. (Poison sting, hits 100% and has 30% to poison, vs hits 70% and 40% chance to poison means 28% effective poison chance) I mean I suppose that if you had really good luck, Smog would work better, but in terms of consistency Poison sting actually has smog beat lmao. Gen 5 at least gave it a base power increase to 30, and with the addition of accuracy boosting (Wide Lens is gen 4+, Compound Eyes 3+, etc), it is at least more useful.
When will u do the rest of eeveelution line in crystal I want to see how they do improve in this game
Not this year. But I will get to them.
I love Magcargo I used to be so upset I couldn’t get it to to the main play through
I always thought it was kinda lame to be the one trainer in the dragon gym with only Horseas and Seadra… but I gave Slugma pause. At least I did something. (There’s also a Fisher Cody in Gen 4 and I think there’s another somewhere else…)
Looking forward to Magcargo. Slugma did honestly pretty good... rough, but good.
Why does rock throw show 50 power on the level up list but 55 power under its current moveset? Is that a programming error?
Speaking of backporting... would it be possible for you to create a pokemon? Like, stats of one pokemon with the type of another one and the name/sprite of another? Chosen randomly for a playthrough?
I cannot believe the snail struggled through the entire game until it reached the final 2 Trainers. Like... are they ashamed to be beaten like that? 😂
Yeah… a strange distribution of difficulty!
For some reason i forgot you don't evolve your mons during these challenges. And I was admiring your strategic prowess in holding off Magcargo until after Chuck, because of those pesky x4 weaknesses to him. I felt a little stupid after. But a great run nonetheless
I used to evolve in gen2, maybe that’s why you forgot?
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Yeah.. yeah totally. What you said. Anyways, looking forward to that Magcargo run
Remindsme of the "best" combo in hackmons
Slugma guts
Gen 2 feels so weird to be fighting the Elite 4 at level 40. I used a Nidoking with Icy Wind to take down Lance…. Nidoking was only 28….
I love these 2, slugs and snails are wonderful
It feels wrong that Chuck was difficult, while Jasmine was a clean sweep.
How do you play crystal and not get the lore that the new Pokemon were just discovered. They aren't "Johtomons"
I can kind of understand why smog is only 20bp(upped to 30 after gen 5) and 70% acc, because it has a 40% chance to inflict poison.
There is toxic
@@Toly88G4Mtoxic isn't a low level move and doesn't deal direct damage
28:08 man, you overestimate how good we were at pokemon as kids. for every kid like you routing it out, there were 10 trying to beat slowbro with level 38 ledian using comet punch.
Alllmost, almost put this on my Emerald team just recently. I’ve always kinda liked Slugma and Magcargo, but they’re just so garbage, especially before Magcargo got the extra 10 points in its special attack.
18:00 So I just checked, and the odds of the AI hitting a Hypnosis and two Dynamic Punches, all in a row, is a mere 11.5% (60% x 0.75 due to AI debuff * 50% * 50%)
Hey look, the Definently Gen 3 Slugma I Swear
Considering Smog has a whopping 40% chance to poison, I'd say the lower accuracy is justified. It doesn't make it a good move, but at least there is some logic behind it.
And then they made Nuzzle
Curse and return... can Wooper learn them?
Nob was a missed chance for a "comments are good for the TH-cam algorithm" gag :).
A factoid is untrue information repeated so much it gets treated as truth. So being able to fight Blue first in Kanto is just a fact.
Second, have you considered adding damage ranges to the overlay? You already have all the information visible that would be used to calculate them, and you are dynamically calculating effecting move power on the fly already. I would understand not having it show on first play throughs so you can get a more “authentic” experience, but on second play throughs you’ve already calculated the ranges in routing. Maybe it might help speed things up and improve reliability
Yes. I have considered it. Even programmed it. But for now I don’t want to implement it. It takes away some level of player choice and dramatic tension.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonmakes sense. Putting a bit more thought into it, it would definitely remove a lot of the tension from the “will this kill?” Moments if the viewer already had the answer before you have spoken.
Scott, I’m sorry if I missed this, but why do you have the rival pick the starter that’s your’s weakness? Isn’t the goal to take the fastest/easiest route?
He usually chooses the starter who's the strongest against his starting mon
He picks the starter strongest against his Pokémon to maintain the spirit of the original version, where the rival picks the starter strongest against yours.
Feels wrong to force the easiest starter. Especially in gen2 because these are by far the easiest games I play on the channel. I like having as much challenge as is possible.
Slugma is some slow slug 😂😂,even though I always thought that it was a fire snail 😅.
My first Slugma was once I did a run as a kid with only fire types that could be obtained in a vanilla playthrough. I remember how bad it was to grind it all the way up until it would evolve.😊 So I was wasn't surprised that it would struggle at some point in the playthrough. Its speed and its defensive capabilities are what most can cause most if its problems for this run.
I'm not sure if Wooper could do better than Slugma though. But I do want to see at some point both of thier final evolutions on a versus video, because they are kind of similar in a sense.🤔
When I saw Slugma and Magcargo for the first time in Pokémon sapphire, I thought to myself how cool this Pokémon is. And then I used it in battle and realised how awful it is in combat. Its such a shame because the design is beautiful. This is one of those Pokémon that need either an evolution or a buff by gamefreak.
This is why cool Pokémon should not be trusted. While there are some cool Pokémon, like Drapion and Tyranitar that do well in playthroughs and competitively, Pokémon that are very cool always suck.
I'm pretty sure that smog is so bad to make the game easier for. In a normal play through it is basically an enemy (team rocket) move. Sometimes it helps to think about those games as normal jrps some design decisions make much more sense with that lens.
Is slugma better than macarggo since all it does is add more weaknesses
Also I feel a funny, ironic name was missed on this one lol totally could've named it Turbo 🤣
19:08
Gasp...no Eusine art?
B-but why?
What if you play crystal but start in Kanto?
If you do a backport of Slugma, please make its special out of its special attack. While Slugma is supposed to kinda suck, I don’t think Gamefreak would make a Pokémon work straight 40 in stats and half the amount in speed. Also, even most bad Pokémon in Gen 1, that can complete the game, has something going for them stat wise
100%.
Something ive been thinking about for some pokemon since berries are limited and when you are picking up return etc some battles might be won with a berry if you take the time to pick them up
I want to love this evolution line but it's hard
I love Slugma's and Magcargo's designs, too bad they're pretty bad Pokémon and are hard to use
This pokemon, does any trainer have it in gen 2? A few years ago when I started watching Scott, I learned this is a gen 2 mon. Before that I would have confidently said it is a gen 3 mon. I dont even know where to catch it in gen 2.
I’m pretty sure there’s one trainer in Kanto that has one on their team, but that’s it.
I think it's on some trainer's teams. But I never fight them in my playthroughs so they must be obscure.
Blaine uses Magcargo and there is a trainer at the Mt Moon entrance who uses a Slugma.
NOO I MISSED THE LIVE
Hey Scott can you do pokemon yellow mewtwo run?
looking forward to wooper 💜
Good Job Scott!
Poor slugma. Gamefreak really didnt want anyone to like or use it.
The Slugma line is a decoration mon.
One for Denis.
Five because I always aim to leave at least five.
is this a MacarJoe reference?
No. Not intentionally…
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon i was just memeing on you man, keep up the challenge runs
Nice playthrough of ligmaballz ;)
Oh man… you thought Slugma was bad at the Rival fight in Azalea, Magcargo will probably worse. Chuck should be too with the rock weakness to fighting and water. I think it’ll give Sunflora and Jumpluff a run for the worst evolved run in Johto. Lol