Well, a few years ago I asked my dad, born in 1942 and a lifelong Celtics fan, who he thought was the greatest basketball player of all time, and WITHOUT HESITATION he retorted "Michael Jordan." I thought he would have given the answer Bill Russell or Wilt or Jerry West or Oscar Robertson. It kinda shocked me.
Kind of surprising to hear a pre-boomer Celtics fan pick Jordan over Russell. My dad (born 1940) says it's Wilt while my uncle (born 1937) swears by Russell. They don't want to hear about Jordan. I won't argue with them. Had I been their age and seen those legends live and up close, I might share their view.
@@MrBimirud .... Yeah, I hear ya. Not worth arguing over. Btw, the generation before the "Baby Boomers" generation is known as the "Silent Generation." Just FYI.
I’m 30 and it’s Michael Jordan. The game play, the undefeated finals, all the scoring titles, the space jam, the mystery of Jordan never seeing him without social media, the jump man flying through the air, the dunk contest, the dpoy, the “walking on air,” and most of all…his brand. The Jordan brand is the icing on the cake. His shoes will never die. He was the first athlete to have a brand this big. And it’s the most successful now than ever. Longevity wise, it’s LeBron. But the higher “peak” as a basketball player, it was Jordan by far. If that makes sense.
@@lollol-zo9xyso basically lebron according to this logic isn’t even close losing as much as jordan won. Also that was with one team which even mystifies it more. This notion that lebron has never had any help is the biggest myth in sports.
LeBron is the goat of feminine energy. Throwing teammates and coaches under the bus, passive aggressive behavior, and never taking any blame. Even when they asked him about his teammates performance in game 1, he had to talk about himself and his "leadership" even though the question had absolutely nothing to do with him. His thirst for attention knows no limits.
you can't blame the media for pushing for Lebron. You have to market the NBA somehow. Same with Mahomes already being crowned GOAT status or close to it early in his career.
@@MikeBNumba6 I agree. LeBron is the biggest name in the game right now. The NBA wanted Giannis to be their next big name, but he didn't seem interested in that spotlight. LeBron also has a lot of media guys who hype him every day, so that also works in his favor. He's a great player, but I just don't like his personality. I've worked with guys like that, and you always gotta watch your back because you'll get thrown under the bus at any time.
MJ #2 can’t stand him he beefed with his GM that built the dynasty and then he retired when his coach wasn’t getting resigned. Return to the wizards messed up a 18 year old kid development because he wanted I believe Elton Brand.
I think reason why so many people think MJ is the GOAT is because he never talks about it. He just lets his mystique and accomplishments do the work for him. He’s the perfect example of what’s understood doesn’t need to be said.
It’s a made up debate! Lebron hasn’t won 1 poll since the fake debate started in 2016! He’s got media plants all over still trying to push it. Lebron even walking around with Goats trying hard to act like he’s the Goat but got boo’d at the Superbowl! Most knowledgeable basketball people know that MJ is the GOAT and it was an organic rise for MJ!
Kareem wasn’t talked about in the goat convo until quite recently. Mainly as an attempt to discredit and dethrone Jordan. In the 80s many people probably believe that wilt, Russell, or Kareem were the greatest ever, then some people would say bird or magic, then in the 90s all of those guys were still up there but by the end of it majority of the world believed it was Michael Jordan. It’s a generational thing. But the fact that Jordan has stays at the top for 25 years after playing with the bulls is the true testimony of his greatness. Many do the players polled probably never watched him live, only what they see on TH-cam. These guys have seen lebron their whole lives almost and still pick Jordan over him
Jordan was the first to have an external marketing campaign outside of the sport. Nike, Gatorade, Space Jam, etc. Jordan is the global ambassador for basketball. His impact on the game & the growth of the sport that followed will never be surpassed.
@@sunnyside9273 Just because huge companies saw dollar signs with Jordan doesn't make him a better player on the court, just more marketable. Why would anyone care other than the companies that make the $? So Kareem sucks because Adidas didn't make him a world wide brand? Totally irrelevant take.
@@Aisaac20-t7t people that really know basketball don't think lebron has a better resume than Jordan. Lebron's resume can't hold a candle to Jordans and I'm a LeBron guy.
The younger generation that is currently growing up and in their 20s watching Lebron is the participation trophy generation. They don’t value winning as much as they do personal achievements. What’s ironic is even if you look at personal achievements, Jordan blows Lebron out of the water. Literally the only metrics that Lebron has over Jordan are longevity stats, aka total stats.
The younger generation hate participation trophies lmao. That was thrusted onto them by their parents and the older generations. They created participation trophies, kids hated those growing up.
MJ never completely melted down in the Finals like Lebron did in 2011. And 6 Finals MVPs speaks for itself. Not to mention MJ was defensive player of the year with 10(!) scoring titles. MJ is 🐐
He also had a legendary coach and a father. Bron was in league with trash coaches at 18. He's not even close to Bron all them dudes he beat wouldn't make a roster
@Beery phill Jackson won with multiple franchise. Jordan couldn't even make the playoffs multiple franchises. He quit when they got ride of phill bc with a trash coach. Jordan couldn't get it done. Bron is agnostic. He took scrubs to the finals multiple franchises multiple teammates and coaches. It's really not a close debate at all. Marketing and nike is mostly Jordan's hype. If it's rings. Then bill Russell the greatest. 6-0 in finals. You mean he only got there 6 times? Weak.
@Beery so it's better to get bounced in the first round got it. Goat is total career. Im saying Bron started at 18. Had to grow up in the league and got to the finals most of his career. He doesn't get the luxury of being bounced early in the playoffs so many times. Yes he won 6. But most of of his career he didn't spend in the ship. The greatest was on the couch watching while Bron was in the mix. He didn't have the team to win all of them. Only the mavs series he should have won. And he'd being going for 6 right now. But better rebounder and way more assists. He makes a team better. Instantly Bron plus 4 people gets you to the finals. For like a decade. He has more triple doubles than jason kidd. Better 3 point shooter. Jordan has him on free throws. And he's a more selfish prolific scorer. Bron makes a team better more than Jordan did for longer. There's no denying that.
@Beery that's a false equivalency thats why I didn't answer. Bc it it's how is getting there 6 times with one franchise little turmoil and one coach versus gettin g to the ship 10 times with multiple coaches and franchises. So yes its weak compared to brons resume. Just the comeback 3-1 over warriors was greater than any ship jordan played against a better team.
As far as the longevity argument goes Mj accomplished more in less time, 2 three peats, 72-10 record winning a NBA championship its no argument for me, but I agree the way the media is becoming they will be making more of a argument for lebron, most of the new media now is some of his former teammates
Mj is considered the GOAT because of his shoes.... There are generations of kids repeating MJ is the GOAT that never even saw him play, all they know about r the highlights
As long as Jumpman shoes are still selling MJ is still the goat!! Im a younger fan and most of people in my generation still think MJ is the goat. MJ is like Ali he will always be recognized as a pantheon athlete that goes beyond basketball.
He will always be the bigger icon but if we speaking about simply basketball LeBron is better but because of his icon status it will be hard for LeBron to be recognized as the goat globally
@@gmailgmail6234 I don't agree hardware + plus eyeball test. Theres nobody messing with Mike. I grew up watching Bron and caught Mike late ive never watched Bron and was ever in awe of him. Thats my opinion Mike had magic He was different. Not taking anything away from Bron he's a tremendous player who also changed the game but for me there are levels and Mike is at the top of it.
@@kidcutty88 I used Shoes to state that its the main driver that will keep him relevant so when younger people watch the tape they'll know MJ was that dude..
Anybody that loves and understand bball knows that MJ is the GOAT..he was the GOAT even after his first threepeat..and Chris many times says that part of that is bc his game was so beautiful his air time acrobatics and after he made Pippen he never looked back and lock down the whole NBA..nobody comes close no matter what younger generations says..I can just imagine if he doesn't retire and he got 8 chips and maybe 9 if the Bulls let them run it one more time in '98..MJ will forever be the GOAT
Not debating who's the goat, but there is no such thing as "air time" 😂😂😂. MJ was no doubt the most athletic player with crazy verticals. But modern NBA teams have 2~3 players with higher vertical and better athleticism than MJ. LeBron is the same height and weight as Karl Malone, but he is faster and jumps higher than MJ.
The fact that you said mj was the goat before he even had a chip yet you turn around and say hes better than lebron because he has more rings should leave the fact that youre insanely biased pretty exposed. The media made mj the goat, they support him day by day with extreme propaganda tactics since the late 80s, thats just the facts
The fact that T Mac is on this list let’s you know the knowledge some of these players possess . Just like hip hop smh . No homework is done on who paved the way
Hey tmac on my top 5 list that my list tho he one of my favorite players but he ain’t better than kareem that stupid better career by far unstoppable hook shot
Genuinely confusing how the GOAT argument just always completely skips over Kareem even though he literally might be the most worthy of the title if we’re talking STRICTLY basketball/accomplishments
Jordan would have all the records if he didn’t retire 3 times. If he played 20 years the scoring record would never be broken. The man averaged over 30 pts a game his entire career.
I think people forget when mj played the nba all stars in 84, when he got into the league, and even before he was winning championships, players, coaches, journalists, and even commentators said this guy is the best they’d ever seen play. Then he won 3. Then another 3. Not to mention everything else. We would be saying it about lebron if he didn’t crumble, and wasn’t a narcissist, didn’t stat pad, and didnt pass the blame onto his teammates consistently. Let’s stop the debate.
But LeBron James will never delete those 6 NBA Finals losses plus Chael Sonnen accused LeBron of using EPO to play well this late in his career. Michael Jordan MVP Award Trophy.
I mean no one can erase those first round exits mj had,they won't hold him "retiring" twice.they don't hold the wizards years against him but people constantly complain about 1 thing about lebron ,his finals record 🤦🏾♂️
@@mrmvp2323 And nobody can erase the fact that lebron wasn't good enough to get it done in Cleveland like MJ did in Chicago. Lebron had 61-66 win teams but he had to team hop building superteams in order to win
@@mrmvp2323 1 thing? Lol I think that LeBron James losing 6 whole NBA World Championships counts as 6 things. Also his meltdown in the 2011 NBA Finals against Dirk, JJ Barea, and Dallas Mavs is a whole other thing. Since when is “retiring” a bad thing for an athletes to do when they all do it? At least MJ created a dynasty like the Lakers and Celtics did. LeBron James has ZERO dynasties because he jumps from team to team like a common journeyman. Let me just add that LeBron James needs superteams to win and Michael Jordan has 6 NBA World Title rings in 13-15 years while LeBron James has 3.5 NBA World Title rings in 20 years or 3 World Title rings and 1 BLM Florida C-19 Bubble ring in 20 years.
A lot of people would say Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know why no one mentioned him. I was born in 78 and when I was a kid I remember people used to say Wilt was the goat. Everytime Chamberlain got interviewed he would say he was the goat and he would give reasons why. I just wonder why he doesn't get mentioned anymore. If you watch his highlights and hear other NBA greats talk about him then maybe you will see why they say that. I thought MJ was the goat all these years then I watched Wilt Chamberlain highlights and my opinion changed. I also saw how great the players and the game was in the 60s and 70s by watching highlights of old games
It's all circumstances. Lebron would have 6 as well if KD never joined GSW. Ain't no way Jordan's Bulls would be able to beat that stacked GSW team as well.
LeBron passed MJ for rebounds and assists a long long time ago, and now has about 85% more of each on only 35% more games. He passed him for scoring on about 2,000 less field goal attempts. Jordan COULD rebound and assist a lot better than he did (averaging 8 a game for each one season), but chose not to. Both Pippen and Dennis Rodman said Mike refused to do the hard work. Pippen went so far as to say Jordan had ruined the game for the younger players coming up, because Jordan didn't want to rebound or assist and concentrated on his scoring. As a scorer, Jordan didn't pass Wilt (or even get to 30,000 points) until his second Wizards year, when he came back to reach those marks (in part).
@@phillipschuman4307 See back in those days point guards and shooting guards wasn't asked to get rebounds back then because of the dominant Centers and Power forwards. Lebron main goal was to get triple doubles but Mike was all about winning.
@@Talkboutitbeboutit MJ got as many or more rebounds and assists in his rookie year as LeBron did in his rookie year. Also, MJ had about 10 triple doubles in 12 games, and about 15 in a short stretch, when he was playing pg, probably the same season he averaged 8 or more of each that one season. He was usually holding the entire rest of his team to one double digit average scorer (sometimes barely two when Oakley got 10 ppg), because what he was working on was his scoring titles. As late as in the playoffs with Phil Jackson, Jackson had to tell him to pass to Paxson because he was always open (and MJ was ignoring him to take the shots himself).
You can't really compare LeBron and MJ because they didn't face the same team in the finals, nor played in the same NBA era. The league has involved with so much talent now. It's harder to make the NBA today
The same nba that load manage can’t play back to back with a bunch of illegal moves the most non competitive sport in sports due to buddy ball style of play ticky tack fouling with the wwf storylines 😂😂 ok u got it👌🏿
Hey Chris, Tell Nick the reason why people generally don't judge the greats on records alone is because anyone with enough time can break any record! So you have to win, break record or set record and DOMINATE!
I'm 22 and mj is the goat,he's done things no one else has,he changed basketball..he left played a Total different sport came back and won 3 more..no one has done that..when mj figured it out he kept winning..LeBron didn't he choked and that's facts
NO, I am GenX and it's Jordan. Jordan is who I watched in the 80s as a kid, a teenager in the 90s. How could you say Lebron is GenX?? You need to get your generations straight ....
It's funny that the average age of the NBA is 26 years old, which means on average, a current NBA player was a 1 year old when Jordan won his last Championship in 1998. That means on average, most players in the NBA grew up watching Lebron, and yet Jordan is still considered the GOAT by them by a longshot.
1st time they did the vote they polled GMs, Owners, coach’s, Analysts, players current and past. and jordan was 73% This poll only took 108 current players
Why is this surprising? Most of the kids in the league now never saw MJ play. Anyone who says LeBron is the GOAT either never saw MJ play or they are just not serious people
Take away team accomplishments because if we go that route than bill Russell is goat with 11-0. But somehow we discount that Era. All around lebron is the best player overall ever. Remember Jordan had to switch off magic cause he was too big. Bron can guard every position. I'll wait
@@m.s.2479 this is just a retarded lie. So you consider Magic Johnson, Bad Boy Pistons, Larry Bird, Malone/Stockton, Olajuwon, etc (the list is endless) to be plumbers??? You just showed your ignorance knows no bounds
Funny point out of the discussion, Chris is right, even though they are only 4 years apart- He and Rob, technically, Rob is a Baby Boomer (1964) and Chris is Generation X born in (1968), so they r in different generations, eventhough they are close in age!
Survey my azz, these players are being persuaded to start saying Lequisha James is the G.O.A.T. They have all these sports analysts in on the agenda too, It's despicable and disgusting 🤢 at the same time.
Why can’t we just APPRECIATE Michael Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Kareem, etc. for THEIR INDIVIDUAL GREATNESS?!?!? It’s hard to compare eras. MJ is the Greatest of his Generation. LeBron is the Greatest of his Generation. Period.
Nope ..if lebron is crowned the greatest, you guys would wholeheartedly agree with no explanation but when mike is crowned the greatest “ oh let’s jus appreciate everybody” blah blah blah
The problem for LB is MJ became a GOAT-candidate naturally and organically. MJ never tried to catch and pass anyone. He was not interested in passing Dr. J., Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. The man retired the first time after only 9 seasons and 3 chips....doesn't sound like someone interested in being the GOAT to me. But Lebron has put effort into being a GOAT-candidate. He might not have early in his career, but has been for some time now. He had goals and put effort into catching and passing Kobe, MJ, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. He literally wants to become "king" whereas MJ couldn't have cared less. MJ's only goal was winning, not becoming GOAT. Although I see nothing wrong with putting in effort to become the GOAT, I have to give more respect to someone who does it without even trying.
How Can Lebron Catch up to 6-0 in Finals With 6 Finals MVPs and "10' Straight Scoring Titles and The Only Player in NBA History to Win MVP/Scoring Title/All Star Game MVP/Defensive Player of The Year All in The SAME Year??
@@MrJonnyl123 Kobe isn't better than LeBron offensively or defensively. Kobe wouldn't have 5 chips if it weren't for shaq. Kobe is great but clearly he's second to LeBron
@@KayBeen Kobe has more scoring titles, was a better shooter than lebron and has twice as many all defense selections. Clearly better on both sides of the ball
This GOAT non-debate discussion did not develop organically. it's was contrived by "guess who" LeBron. When declared himself the goat (who does that) when Cleveland (Kyrie) won the championship. He's not even #2. In anyone's list, Kobe should be ahead of him anyway.
Well Chris that’s why it’s up to media analysts like yourselves to not let the newer generation change the narrative in what criteria makes a player the Goat! The longevity angle and longevity stats never was the main criteria! That’s the only angle LeBron has! Don’t let Lebron get away with always stacking the deck‼️
Why does it matter who someone thinks of as a goat? Intelligent people understand media shouldn't affect their opinions anyways. Saying it's his job to not let people change their criteria is hilarious.🤣
@Sam Kellogg That's because the only reason people say lebron is the goat is because of the media..It's the Nick Wright doing hit pieces on other greats like kobe,mj,malone,Reggie etc.Belitting them because Jordan and bulls beat them..Nick never call Kareem the best scorer of all time..He never had him in top 2 off all time until Lebron is about to pass he suddenly Kareem is second best..If you look at tweets from a few years ago nick didn't have him that high..It's guy like Shannon saying goat James praising him every week..Guys like Nick Wright making up false statements and half truth..He often contradicts himself all to promote lebron..So yes it is important people like Chris speak up..Because this is who the public listens to..They didn't watch mj play they don't look at clips..They don't watch old games..They don't do any research whatever..So it's easy for media to control narratives..Nick and Shannon get the big bucks from klutch sports to do that
@@samkellogg2805 why would we let Lebron be judged differently from the players that came before him who we’re judged in the Goat debate by the same criteria? Why are we changing it for Lebron? That’s all that’s been happening Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe’s and others have tried to change or muddy the waters around the Goat debate! If the Majority consistently says it’s MJ young&old then y do they keep having a debate? Normally u debate things that are closely connected. MJ and Lebron isn’t that way at all! U can’t move the goalpost to try and prop up Lebron! 🤣
@Beery had to go get rodman. How hakeem beat the magic and he was the only all nba player but mj couldn't best them and he had 2. Superteam for his era
Cause they do. Have you heard ex players give their takes on tv shows on current players? Have you seen former players who become gms and work in the front office literally run teams into the ground? Remember all the great moves isiah Thomas and mj made in the front office and ownership?
Why you guys not talk about how the longevity actually hurts Bron's case. Like we all know Bron from 2012-2018 was the best version of Bron there ever was but somehow he has better stats now. It proves how weak the NBA is now with all the rule changes and even to an extent athletes. But we always hear guys like Colin and Nick say "guys are bigger, stronger, faster now" it clearly isn't true with all the injuries and there is also a huge difference in toughness.
@@devontacosby8593 MJ never lost a finals series even when he had only one other allstar. Lebron hasn't won anything in a normal basketball setting without having two other allstars that were franchise players on other teams teaming up. Give MJ two other allstars that were franchise players on other teams teaming up with him he wins 12 rings and definitely wouldn't lose like lebron did
Catching up to Michael Jordan in an Era of players to young to young to even remember Michael Jordan playing is not an accomplishment! If he was Catching up to MJ then this would hv been unanimous in favor of LeBron from the start because these are his current peers who've played against him!
Btw, Ali missed like 3 years of his prime, being locked up, as a conscientious objector cuz he wouldn't go to Vietnam to shoot the yellow man cuz he didn't have no problem with the yellow man. But nobody moved in the ring like Muhammad Ali, certainly no heavy weights.
When LBJ retires and his documentary tracing his story from childhood on the cover of SI, and his accomplishments as a businessman (which is discussed but not detailed) and his hands in many successes… LBJ will have more media coverage than any athlete in modern history…younger generations will sound exactly like Rob Parker and Broussard when talking about Lebron
It can’t be generation X that believes Lebron is the goat over MJ, because I’m generation X and I’m 56 years old, so we’re old enough to know better!! 😂 I love Lebron, but no, MJ is the goat!
The GOAT of the sport never lost a championship game at the highest levels. Won in college, FIBA the Olympics and is 6 for 6 in NBA titles. He never got swept or choked. Never even allowed a game 7. He has the highest career playoff scoring average of 33.5 and the highest average in a finals at 41. MJ beat his superstar opponents. James teamed up with several of his and lost 6 times. LOST SIX!!! Why is this a discussion other than just for the sake of having a discussion? Fn Recentcy bias. Smh.
To be a "LeBron is GOAT" guy....is a literal embarrassment to sport competition. Imagine a guy heralded as the "best ever" having a losing Finals record with multiple embarrassments and a mediocre- at- best shooter. He hasn't played defense in years...has load managed an average of 55 games a year over the last 5 years to catch a longevity scoring record while being a defensive liability. His game has more holes than Swiss cheese that he covers up with his size/athleticism and referee help. Not...even...close
MICHAEL JORDAN in (667 games), pre-retirement. 1984-1993. 3 rings (6 career) 3 NBA mvps (6 career) 3 finals mvps (6 career) 7 scoring titles (10 career) 3 steals titles Defensive player of the year. LEBRON JAMES career (1300+ plus games) 4 rings 4 NBA mvps 4 finals mvps 1 scoring title 1 assist title JORDAN arguably did more in 9 years then Bron in his career till date (20 years). And the reason Bron throws powder in the air, and the reason you chase rings, and the reason you made Space Jam 2. Lebron has always tried to replace Michael Jordan in people’s minds; FAIL. Jordan took the game to new heights while Lebron found new lows. Jordan made average players Champions while Lebron made All-Stars average.
I mean no one can erase those first round exits mj had,they won't hold him "retiring" twice.they don't hold the wizards years against him but people constantly complain about 1 thing about lebron ,his finals record 🤦🏾♂️
They are bias …. I use to think Lebron was hype until I watched him carry that trash ass cavs teams to the finals by himself I think in 2018…he’s the goat in my eyes
The Kareem disrespect must stop My Top 5 (my opinion) MJ Kareem Lebron Magic Kobe (he's in my top 5, idc what, espn or whoever tells you he's top 5 easily) keep playing I'll move him higher 🤣🤣 but RIP Mamba man ❤
@@robertwilson9528 what’s your argument for Kareem, if not the 6 ships?? My point is playing with another all time great player brings him down. He’s only won 2 finals MVP.
I agree. I think there's been a disconnect between them recently. Rob don't even put effort cause he can't get a word in which explains why he's always on his phone 😂
It wasn't the last dance it was them seeing what he did. People understand winning, Jordan being the best player not just on the team, but in the game being played and playing with less help than Lebron. People aren't stupid and just aren't responding to a special, that's ridiculous! For example, Lebron is still the consistent best player on the lakers, though some say AD. However, AD was the clear reason why Lebron won his 4th ring. Pippen and others contributed to Jordan, but Jordan lead 90% of the games in several areas throughout the playoffs and during all 6 championship wins. It's an insult to AD, Reeves and Ru, who literally won that game, if we credit lebron. If Bron wins a 5th ring it willn't be b/c of him. but a 5th ring makes him the goat?
Jordan is the GOAT but ppl act like he did everything on those championship teams by himself. He had a lot of good players and front office too, that did the other things to allow MJ to shine.
This is exactly why most people shouldn’t get to talk about basketball. He’s spent 20 years as a primary ball handler, of COURSE he has the most turnovers. That’s like saying your coworker who has worked there for 50 years has taken the most days off to imply they don’t work hard.
@@rickyrobby8133 how come he doesn’t have the most assists as well then being the primary ball handler 😂. He has 500 more career turnovers than Westbrook. That’s insane
@@MrJonnyl123 he’s played 6 more years than Russ…of course he has more. That’s a ridiculous response. And he’s fourth all time in assists. You’re acting like he’s not even in the top 10.
@@rickyrobby8133 John Stockton played 20 years and is number one is assists and doesn’t have anywhere near as many turnovers as lebron does. Lebrons been a turnover machine his whole career
7:09 - 7:31 He Literally Contradicted Himself 🤣 So LeBron Only Got More Votes Cause He Did Something “Recently“ But Jordan Can Drop A Documentary Refreshing People’s Minds Of His Glory Days Before A Greatest Of All Time Vote ??? You Got It Rob 💀🤣
I think the GOAT convo for lebron in 10 years is gonna be pretty easy to make. Holds most playoff records, all time leading scorer, top 4 assist. Most games played, most minutes played..40k plus points. The most gifted athlete to ever play the sport, never stepped a toe out of line. The old generation too biased to just admit what is clear as day
To each his own. But I've been watching the NBA for over 50 years. And although I think that LeBron is one hell of a player, he never gave me the juice of being mesmerized. He never stood out to me as being cut from a different cloth other than perhaps his physicality. Aside from that, I simply see him as one of many great players on the roster. Now when I see Steph Curry shoot those 3- pointers on a regular like he does and no one comes even close to touching him on that level, that's on that genius level like Mike. He's not TRYING to be great. He's just great. LeBron is great, but he's not unique. He's not on that genius level in my opinion. He's already been in the league for five years more than what Jordan played, and I still don't see it. Not even close. And quite frankly, I think he's trying too hard and his ego is in overdrive on this one. He's literally doing whatever he can to crown himself King. Michael never did that. In fact, he never considered himself to be the greatest player of all time. But the rest of the entire world did. And they still do. I think that LeBron has some undercurrent, psychological unworthiness going on in the background of his mind and underneath it all, he actually doesn't feel like he's good enough. Hence, his driving desire to prove that he's good enough.
I’ve never watched MJ play growing up but after the Last Dance I still don’t think it’s a close debate unless Lebron gets like 8 rings but how can you compete against 6-0 in the finals
@@Outtasightcali It doesn't matter. Point of the story is Lebron is nowhere near is great as Jordan. No matter how the media or current players want to frame it. It's not reality no matter how they want to force it that way.
@@Outtasightcalinobody with a functional brain think of the goat debate is base on just rings. its the complete package - more mvps, more rings in less time, 10 time scoring champ, more all nba defensive 1st team/dpoy in less time, transcended the sports, killer instinct, arguably most clutch player, highest PER all time, 30/10/10 when asked to play point guard, iconic plays and shoes, slamdunk champ, zero meltdown in a given series unlike lebum, only gold metals, 6-0, should i go on
How is he catching up? Just because he’s played longer? His defensive titles and mvp titles and rings have not eclipsed Jordan’s. I’ve never seen anything like this where the longer lebron plays even in losing his goat cache goes up.
1. Michael Jordan 2. David Robinson 3. Hakeem Olajuwon 4. Shaquille O'neal 5. Patrick Ewing 6. Moses Malone 7. Larry Bird 8. Magic Johnson 9. Kareem 10. Isiah Thomas
Even with Bron and Klutch Sports obsessively setting up and controlling narratives about his legacy as they’ve done for several years, most players still see right through him and are smart enough to know that Jordan is still much better.
I actually think Lebron, his media fanboys and clutch sports, obsession with Lebron being universally accepted as the goat has resulted in large segments of nba fandom disliking him and rooting against him.
Well, a few years ago I asked my dad, born in 1942 and a lifelong Celtics fan, who he thought was the greatest basketball player of all time, and WITHOUT HESITATION he retorted "Michael Jordan."
I thought he would have given the answer Bill Russell or Wilt or Jerry West or Oscar Robertson.
It kinda shocked me.
Kind of surprising to hear a pre-boomer Celtics fan pick Jordan over Russell. My dad (born 1940) says it's Wilt while my uncle (born 1937) swears by Russell. They don't want to hear about Jordan. I won't argue with them. Had I been their age and seen those legends live and up close, I might share their view.
Smart man!!
@@MrBimirud .... Yeah, I hear ya. Not worth arguing over.
Btw, the generation before the "Baby Boomers" generation is known as the "Silent Generation."
Just FYI.
@Beery trying to connect Michael Jordan goat debate and social justice is an absolute microwave brain take.
Same thing with my Dad. He's seen them all but he still says Jordan is the GOAT.
He's not even close to Jordan. What a joke
i agree! your comment is a joke
@vm another butt hurt Bronsexual, there was no debate, its Jordan
@@vintagemonte ... definitely yours
You right brons significantly better
I’m 30 and it’s Michael Jordan. The game play, the undefeated finals, all the scoring titles, the space jam, the mystery of Jordan never seeing him without social media, the jump man flying through the air, the dunk contest, the dpoy, the “walking on air,” and most of all…his brand. The Jordan brand is the icing on the cake. His shoes will never die. He was the first athlete to have a brand this big. And it’s the most successful now than ever. Longevity wise, it’s LeBron. But the higher “peak” as a basketball player, it was Jordan by far. If that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense
You lost me at undefeated Finals. So what happened in Jordan's other years he played besides those 6 years??
@lollol what happend to lebron six years he was a loser??? You have nothing to say.
@@lollol-zo9xyso basically lebron according to this logic isn’t even close losing as much as jordan won. Also that was with one team which even mystifies it more. This notion that lebron has never had any help is the biggest myth in sports.
U didn’t even see him play🤣🤣🤣
LeBron is the goat of feminine energy. Throwing teammates and coaches under the bus, passive aggressive behavior, and never taking any blame.
Even when they asked him about his teammates performance in game 1, he had to talk about himself and his "leadership" even though the question had absolutely nothing to do with him.
His thirst for attention knows no limits.
you can't blame the media for pushing for Lebron. You have to market the NBA somehow. Same with Mahomes already being crowned GOAT status or close to it early in his career.
@@MikeBNumba6 I agree. LeBron is the biggest name in the game right now. The NBA wanted Giannis to be their next big name, but he didn't seem interested in that spotlight.
LeBron also has a lot of media guys who hype him every day, so that also works in his favor. He's a great player, but I just don't like his personality. I've worked with guys like that, and you always gotta watch your back because you'll get thrown under the bus at any time.
MJ #2 can’t stand him he beefed with his GM that built the dynasty and then he retired when his coach wasn’t getting resigned. Return to the wizards messed up a 18 year old kid development because he wanted I believe Elton Brand.
@@S2pidMedia FACTS 💯 Thank You
@@S2pidMedia Lebron has had 9 different coaches. He’s the ultimate coach killer.
Catching up??🤣
Lmao
click bait 😂
Lebron passed em 💯
@@Heimdadream96 copium
@@Heimdadream96He did pass him in finals loses. 🤡
I think reason why so many people think MJ is the GOAT is because he never talks about it. He just lets his mystique and accomplishments do the work for him. He’s the perfect example of what’s understood doesn’t need to be said.
Jordan quit the game TWICE, gamble, and committed adultery 😂 he's not no perfect example of anything
No its because there fanboys who believe in fantasy
@@shawndun2119 he 3peated, retired and did it again. Lebron joined other superstars and still didn’t do it Lmaooo.
Thats a good point big homie. Lebron be crowning himself and all that. That to me is crazy. Insecurity drives Lebron
@@davidcarlos4350 you mean the same way Ali used to crown himself🤔...like that?
Millennials know it's Jordan
These two always tend to get millennials mix up with the gen after them 😂
Millineial here. And no its not jordan. Its lbj. Speak for yourseld. Its lbj and not close. AT ALL.
I was born in the first years of Gen Z and Its jordan hands down and I use to be a Lbj fan until 2009.
Catching up to Michael Jordan ain't the same as passing Michael Jordan. Can we please end this debate? Oh my god. The media is so disgustingly awful
That’s what I say about kd and kawhi being better then king James
There was never a debate actually, Jordan, only dummies who dont understand bball pick Bron
It’s a made up debate! Lebron hasn’t won 1 poll since the fake debate started in 2016! He’s got media plants all over still trying to push it. Lebron even walking around with Goats trying hard to act like he’s the Goat but got boo’d at the Superbowl! Most knowledgeable basketball people know that MJ is the GOAT and it was an organic rise for MJ!
What year were you born ?
@BuzzinFromda4z LeBron got bodied by Jason Terry in the finals,STOP 😂😂😂
Kareem wasn’t talked about in the goat convo until quite recently. Mainly as an attempt to discredit and dethrone Jordan. In the 80s many people probably believe that wilt, Russell, or Kareem were the greatest ever, then some people would say bird or magic, then in the 90s all of those guys were still up there but by the end of it majority of the world believed it was Michael Jordan. It’s a generational thing. But the fact that Jordan has stays at the top for 25 years after playing with the bulls is the true testimony of his greatness. Many do the players polled probably never watched him live, only what they see on TH-cam. These guys have seen lebron their whole lives almost and still pick Jordan over him
Jordan was the first to have an external marketing campaign outside of the sport. Nike, Gatorade, Space Jam, etc. Jordan is the global ambassador for basketball. His impact on the game & the growth of the sport that followed will never be surpassed.
Exactly
@@sunnyside9273 he no nobody calling him the greatest until his peers started to
Nobody called Jordan the goat when he was playing because nobody used that term I'm a team sport
@@sunnyside9273 Just because huge companies saw dollar signs with Jordan doesn't make him a better player on the court, just more marketable. Why would anyone care other than the companies that make the $? So Kareem sucks because Adidas didn't make him a world wide brand? Totally irrelevant take.
Looking at Jordan's resume and accolades vs Lebrons and it's not close. Jordan had a better career than lebron, simple and plain.
Yea that's why Jordan released the last dance cuz it's not close.
Hell no bron better 🤣🤣🤣 it’s not even close
@@Aisaac20-t7t if you think that either you don't know Jordan's resume or you are lying.
@@ejay2075 I know mj’s resume, bron is better 🤣 why you think mj dropped the last dance in 2020 cause everyone was saying bron is the goat!
@@Aisaac20-t7t people that really know basketball don't think lebron has a better resume than Jordan. Lebron's resume can't hold a candle to Jordans and I'm a LeBron guy.
The younger generation that is currently growing up and in their 20s watching Lebron is the participation trophy generation. They don’t value winning as much as they do personal achievements. What’s ironic is even if you look at personal achievements, Jordan blows Lebron out of the water. Literally the only metrics that Lebron has over Jordan are longevity stats, aka total stats.
The younger generation hate participation trophies lmao. That was thrusted onto them by their parents and the older generations. They created participation trophies, kids hated those growing up.
💯🤦🏾♂️
Exactly
MJ played 15 seasons. What happened in the 9 seasons he didn't make the Finals? What excuses y'all got?? 🤦🏽♂️
@@lollol-zo9xy he only played 15 seasons and did a 3 peat twice? Bron played 20 and hasn’t done it once.
Generation X is 1965 to 1980, Chris was born in 1968, Rob was born in 1964, which makes Rob a Baby Boomer and Chris a Gen X'er.
it changed though
at one time they said the baby boom "ended" in like 1959 or 60
MJ never completely melted down in the Finals like Lebron did in 2011. And 6 Finals MVPs speaks for itself. Not to mention MJ was defensive player of the year with 10(!) scoring titles. MJ is 🐐
He also had a legendary coach and a father. Bron was in league with trash coaches at 18. He's not even close to Bron all them dudes he beat wouldn't make a roster
@Beery phill Jackson won with multiple franchise. Jordan couldn't even make the playoffs multiple franchises. He quit when they got ride of phill bc with a trash coach. Jordan couldn't get it done. Bron is agnostic. He took scrubs to the finals multiple franchises multiple teammates and coaches. It's really not a close debate at all. Marketing and nike is mostly Jordan's hype. If it's rings. Then bill Russell the greatest. 6-0 in finals. You mean he only got there 6 times? Weak.
@Beery so it's better to get bounced in the first round got it. Goat is total career. Im saying Bron started at 18. Had to grow up in the league and got to the finals most of his career. He doesn't get the luxury of being bounced early in the playoffs so many times. Yes he won 6. But most of of his career he didn't spend in the ship. The greatest was on the couch watching while Bron was in the mix. He didn't have the team to win all of them. Only the mavs series he should have won. And he'd being going for 6 right now. But better rebounder and way more assists. He makes a team better. Instantly Bron plus 4 people gets you to the finals. For like a decade. He has more triple doubles than jason kidd. Better 3 point shooter. Jordan has him on free throws. And he's a more selfish prolific scorer. Bron makes a team better more than Jordan did for longer. There's no denying that.
@Beery that's a false equivalency thats why I didn't answer. Bc it it's how is getting there 6 times with one franchise little turmoil and one coach versus gettin g to the ship 10 times with multiple coaches and franchises. So yes its weak compared to brons resume. Just the comeback 3-1 over warriors was greater than any ship jordan played against a better team.
@Beery You're going to be waiting a long time lol. Prime Kyrie is better than any of MJs supporting cast.
When you've done less and won less than a man whos played less than half your career you cant be catching up. MJ is still the GOAT
Well said...hopefully this will be put to rest and we can move on and keep buying more Js also
But he is catching up…
Get your math right, 15vs 20. How is that less than half.. Are you serious 😂😂😂? By your logic MJ played less than 10 seasons to bron 20. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Played less than half his career? Where do you get your weed at?
Some off yall MJ stans do realize that he played more then 6 seasons right?
As far as the longevity argument goes Mj accomplished more in less time, 2 three peats, 72-10 record winning a NBA championship its no argument for me, but I agree the way the media is becoming they will be making more of a argument for lebron, most of the new media now is some of his former teammates
So being able to play at a high level for this long isn't an accomplishment in itself?
@lollol it is a accomplishment but comparing it to mj in my opinion is where I don't agree
@@lollol-zo9xy yes it is, which is why a lot of people have him as #2 all time. There’s nothing wrong with being #2 all time
Mj is considered the GOAT because of his shoes.... There are generations of kids repeating MJ is the GOAT that never even saw him play, all they know about r the highlights
@Jovonn Horrice That's true all this generation has is highlights but they also knew he won on the highest level along with the highlights,
As long as Jumpman shoes are still selling MJ is still the goat!! Im a younger fan and most of people in my generation still think MJ is the goat. MJ is like Ali he will always be recognized as a pantheon athlete that goes beyond basketball.
He will always be the bigger icon but if we speaking about simply basketball LeBron is better but because of his icon status it will be hard for LeBron to be recognized as the goat globally
Lebron is the GOAT tho...
Naw LEBRON more like Ali than MJ ever was 😂 and really??? Shoes is why he the GOAT??? 😑😑😑
@@gmailgmail6234 I don't agree hardware + plus eyeball test. Theres nobody messing with Mike. I grew up watching Bron and caught Mike late ive never watched Bron and was ever in awe of him. Thats my opinion Mike had magic He was different. Not taking anything away from Bron he's a tremendous player who also changed the game but for me there are levels and Mike is at the top of it.
@@kidcutty88 I used Shoes to state that its the main driver that will keep him relevant so when younger people watch the tape they'll know MJ was that dude..
Anybody that loves and understand bball knows that MJ is the GOAT..he was the GOAT even after his first threepeat..and Chris many times says that part of that is bc his game was so beautiful his air time acrobatics and after he made Pippen he never looked back and lock down the whole NBA..nobody comes close no matter what younger generations says..I can just imagine if he doesn't retire and he got 8 chips and maybe 9 if the Bulls let them run it one more time in '98..MJ will forever be the GOAT
No he wasn't
@@jeremiahsmith7706 MJ is the GOAT, deal with it 🤡
Not debating who's the goat, but there is no such thing as "air time" 😂😂😂.
MJ was no doubt the most athletic player with crazy verticals. But modern NBA teams have 2~3 players with higher vertical and better athleticism than MJ. LeBron is the same height and weight as Karl Malone, but he is faster and jumps higher than MJ.
@@disguy41 you gonna cry? He isnt😂😂😂
The fact that you said mj was the goat before he even had a chip yet you turn around and say hes better than lebron because he has more rings should leave the fact that youre insanely biased pretty exposed. The media made mj the goat, they support him day by day with extreme propaganda tactics since the late 80s, thats just the facts
The fact that T Mac is on this list let’s you know the knowledge some of these players possess . Just like hip hop smh . No homework is done on who paved the way
i think they are going just on physical abilities ... MAYBE, because there is NOTHING he couldn't do. but i agree having mcgrady 5th is INSANE😂
I couldn't take this list seriously after hearing that
T Mac over Kareem. That gave me a chuckle.
Players may go by mostly ability and fans may go by mostly achievements, stats and analytics.
Hey tmac on my top 5 list that my list tho he one of my favorite players but he ain’t better than kareem that stupid better career by far unstoppable hook shot
I honestly don't even care anymore about the debate
Same. I used to have a strong opinion over who the #1 was, but then I realized it’s sorta pointless.
Genuinely confusing how the GOAT argument just always completely skips over Kareem even though he literally might be the most worthy of the title if we’re talking STRICTLY basketball/accomplishments
It comes down to Finals MVP and the fact that he had a top 5 player of all time on his team in Magic.
He changed his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. That''s like me changing my name to the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Rob clowning "New Media" while staring down at his phone like a teenager is peak irony.
Wait 60 percent is way more than 30%wtf is catching up
You’re not very good with words, “catching up” as in compared to older polls the percentage is higher.
@AaronRoberto you’re delusional if you think the all-time points leader will be “forgotten.”
28.7%, daaaaang Jrue. That's respect from real hoopers.
Jordan would have all the records if he didn’t retire 3 times. If he played 20 years the scoring record would never be broken. The man averaged over 30 pts a game his entire career.
It would've gotten broken by LeBron
So he quit.... 3 times. Enough said. Not the goat
Not in his later years. Lebron consistently putting up 25+ for 20 years. Jordan missed the rockets and the lakers by retiring.
@@account-369 no. He wouldn't.
@@account-369 no. He wouldn't.
Nah. What it reveals is that clutch Sports signings forced a lot of players to say it is LeBron. The anonymous poll said it was over 70% MJ 😂
The way they framed this title is crazy 😂 lol
I thought it was just me😄
That’s Broussard payin his taxes!
Clearly they suck at math.
I think people forget when mj played the nba all stars in 84, when he got into the league, and even before he was winning championships, players, coaches, journalists, and even commentators said this guy is the best they’d ever seen play. Then he won 3. Then another 3. Not to mention everything else. We would be saying it about lebron if he didn’t crumble, and wasn’t a narcissist, didn’t stat pad, and didnt pass the blame onto his teammates consistently. Let’s stop the debate.
But LeBron James will never delete those 6 NBA Finals losses plus Chael Sonnen accused LeBron of using EPO to play well this late in his career. Michael Jordan MVP Award Trophy.
You citing a accusation…🤣🤣🤣🤣
I mean no one can erase those first round exits mj had,they won't hold him "retiring" twice.they don't hold the wizards years against him but people constantly complain about 1 thing about lebron ,his finals record 🤦🏾♂️
@@mrmvp2323 And nobody can erase the fact that lebron wasn't good enough to get it done in Cleveland like MJ did in Chicago. Lebron had 61-66 win teams but he had to team hop building superteams in order to win
@@mrmvp2323 1 thing? Lol
I think that LeBron James losing 6 whole NBA World Championships counts as 6 things. Also his meltdown in the 2011 NBA Finals against Dirk, JJ Barea, and Dallas Mavs is a whole other thing. Since when is “retiring” a bad thing for an athletes to do when they all do it? At least MJ created a dynasty like the Lakers and Celtics did. LeBron James has ZERO dynasties because he jumps from team to team like a common journeyman. Let me just add that LeBron James needs superteams to win and Michael Jordan has 6 NBA World Title rings in 13-15 years while LeBron James has 3.5 NBA World Title rings in 20 years or 3 World Title rings and 1 BLM Florida C-19 Bubble ring in 20 years.
Is it better to lose in the first round than the finals ?
A lot of people would say Wilt Chamberlain. I don't know why no one mentioned him. I was born in 78 and when I was a kid I remember people used to say Wilt was the goat. Everytime Chamberlain got interviewed he would say he was the goat and he would give reasons why. I just wonder why he doesn't get mentioned anymore. If you watch his highlights and hear other NBA greats talk about him then maybe you will see why they say that. I thought MJ was the goat all these years then I watched Wilt Chamberlain highlights and my opinion changed. I also saw how great the players and the game was in the 60s and 70s by watching highlights of old games
The goat debate been over because if lebron James done played 7 more years than Jordan and still haven't passed him it's over.....
It's all circumstances. Lebron would have 6 as well if KD never joined GSW. Ain't no way Jordan's Bulls would be able to beat that stacked GSW team as well.
LeBron passed MJ for rebounds and assists a long long time ago, and now has about 85% more of each on only 35% more games. He passed him for scoring on about 2,000 less field goal attempts. Jordan COULD rebound and assist a lot better than he did (averaging 8 a game for each one season), but chose not to.
Both Pippen and Dennis Rodman said Mike refused to do the hard work. Pippen went so far as to say Jordan had ruined the game for the younger players coming up, because Jordan didn't want to rebound or assist and concentrated on his scoring.
As a scorer, Jordan didn't pass Wilt (or even get to 30,000 points) until his second Wizards year, when he came back to reach those marks (in part).
@@phillipschuman4307 See back in those days point guards and shooting guards wasn't asked to get rebounds back then because of the dominant Centers and Power forwards. Lebron main goal was to get triple doubles but Mike was all about winning.
@@lollol-zo9xy I'll put my money on the bulls all day......
@@Talkboutitbeboutit MJ got as many or more rebounds and assists in his rookie year as LeBron did in his rookie year.
Also, MJ had about 10 triple doubles in 12 games, and about 15 in a short stretch, when he was playing pg, probably the same season he averaged 8 or more of each that one season. He was usually holding the entire rest of his team to one double digit average scorer (sometimes barely two when Oakley got 10 ppg), because what he was working on was his scoring titles.
As late as in the playoffs with Phil Jackson, Jackson had to tell him to pass to Paxson because he was always open (and MJ was ignoring him to take the shots himself).
Kareem not being on the list just shows you how non-important the all-time scoring record is in the GOAT conversation 😏
"Give you a hint, I said his name earlier " --- man Rob ain't listening lmao. He buried in that phone.
You can't really compare LeBron and MJ because they didn't face the same team in the finals, nor played in the same NBA era. The league has involved with so much talent now. It's harder to make the NBA today
The same nba that load manage can’t play back to back with a bunch of illegal moves the most non competitive sport in sports due to buddy ball style of play ticky tack fouling with the wwf storylines 😂😂 ok u got it👌🏿
Hey Chris, Tell Nick the reason why people generally don't judge the greats on records alone is because anyone with enough time can break any record! So you have to win, break record or set record and DOMINATE!
And I agree with Rob, Kareem should have been on the that list
They're going to keep asking until they get the answer they want.
Lmfaoooo exactly
like some sorry dude who KEEPS begging a female ...
@@futuretimetraveller8677 Absolutely. Perfect example.
I'm 22 and mj is the goat,he's done things no one else has,he changed basketball..he left played a Total different sport came back and won 3 more..no one has done that..when mj figured it out he kept winning..LeBron didn't he choked and that's facts
Jordan is the G.O.A.T❤
Nope
He has to run consistent Ad campaigns to remain in peoples mind
NO, I am GenX and it's Jordan. Jordan is who I watched in the 80s as a kid, a teenager in the 90s. How could you say Lebron is GenX?? You need to get your generations straight ....
It's funny that the average age of the NBA is 26 years old, which means on average, a current NBA player was a 1 year old when Jordan won his last Championship in 1998. That means on average, most players in the NBA grew up watching Lebron, and yet Jordan is still considered the GOAT by them by a longshot.
1st time they did the vote they polled GMs, Owners, coach’s, Analysts, players current and past. and jordan was 73% This poll only took 108 current players
Why is this surprising? Most of the kids in the league now never saw MJ play. Anyone who says LeBron is the GOAT either never saw MJ play or they are just not serious people
Take away team accomplishments because if we go that route than bill Russell is goat with 11-0. But somehow we discount that Era. All around lebron is the best player overall ever. Remember Jordan had to switch off magic cause he was too big. Bron can guard every position. I'll wait
@Jay C yeah LeBron can guard anybody but Jason Terry 😂😂😂
Lebron is the GOAT, tho. Im not even a Lebron fan, and I can see that.
MJ faced too much WEAK teams and PLUMBERS
@@m.s.2479 this is just a retarded lie. So you consider Magic Johnson, Bad Boy Pistons, Larry Bird, Malone/Stockton, Olajuwon, etc (the list is endless) to be plumbers??? You just showed your ignorance knows no bounds
Funny point out of the discussion, Chris is right, even though they are only 4 years apart- He and Rob, technically, Rob is a Baby Boomer (1964) and Chris is Generation X born in (1968), so they r in different generations, eventhough they are close in age!
This is current players so I'd expect LeBron to do well with them.. T Mac though lmao
Survey my azz, these players are being persuaded to start saying Lequisha James is the G.O.A.T.
They have all these sports analysts in on the agenda too, It's despicable and disgusting 🤢 at the same time.
Why can’t we just APPRECIATE Michael Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Kareem, etc. for THEIR INDIVIDUAL GREATNESS?!?!? It’s hard to compare eras. MJ is the Greatest of his Generation. LeBron is the Greatest of his Generation. Period.
Nope ..if lebron is crowned the greatest, you guys would wholeheartedly agree with no explanation but when mike is crowned the greatest “ oh let’s jus appreciate everybody” blah blah blah
The problem for LB is MJ became a GOAT-candidate naturally and organically. MJ never tried to catch and pass anyone. He was not interested in passing Dr. J., Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. The man retired the first time after only 9 seasons and 3 chips....doesn't sound like someone interested in being the GOAT to me. But Lebron has put effort into being a GOAT-candidate. He might not have early in his career, but has been for some time now. He had goals and put effort into catching and passing Kobe, MJ, Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. He literally wants to become "king" whereas MJ couldn't have cared less. MJ's only goal was winning, not becoming GOAT. Although I see nothing wrong with putting in effort to become the GOAT, I have to give more respect to someone who does it without even trying.
Damn, Tracy McGrady never won a playoff series??? Sheesh, that’s pretty bad when you think about it.
Ya think? 😂
How Can Lebron Catch up to 6-0 in Finals With 6 Finals MVPs and "10' Straight Scoring Titles and The Only Player in NBA History to Win MVP/Scoring Title/All Star Game MVP/Defensive Player of The Year All in The SAME Year??
I don’t see how ppl keep having lebron ahead of kobe
Because he’s clearly better
You’re in drugs bro
@@aravbhatt2875 Kobe is better offensively and defensively than lebron. And didn’t have to team hop to win his rings
@@MrJonnyl123 Kobe isn't better than LeBron offensively or defensively. Kobe wouldn't have 5 chips if it weren't for shaq. Kobe is great but clearly he's second to LeBron
@@KayBeen Kobe has more scoring titles, was a better shooter than lebron and has twice as many all defense selections. Clearly better on both sides of the ball
This GOAT non-debate discussion did not develop organically. it's was contrived by "guess who" LeBron. When declared himself the goat (who does that) when Cleveland (Kyrie) won the championship. He's not even #2. In anyone's list, Kobe should be ahead of him anyway.
Brons ship has sailed on passing mj
I´ll say something... Dillon Brooks would never talk trash to the GOAT MJ.
Jordan deserves to have become mythical
Broussard is actually Gen X born 1968. It's from 1965-1980. Parker is a younger baby boomer born 1964.
Well Chris that’s why it’s up to media analysts like yourselves to not let the newer generation change the narrative in what criteria makes a player the Goat! The longevity angle and longevity stats never was the main criteria! That’s the only angle LeBron has! Don’t let Lebron get away with always stacking the deck‼️
Why does it matter who someone thinks of as a goat? Intelligent people understand media shouldn't affect their opinions anyways. Saying it's his job to not let people change their criteria is hilarious.🤣
So you want them to stop the new generation from having an opinion
@Sam Kellogg That's because the only reason people say lebron is the goat is because of the media..It's the Nick Wright doing hit pieces on other greats like kobe,mj,malone,Reggie etc.Belitting them because Jordan and bulls beat them..Nick never call Kareem the best scorer of all time..He never had him in top 2 off all time until Lebron is about to pass he suddenly Kareem is second best..If you look at tweets from a few years ago nick didn't have him that high..It's guy like Shannon saying goat James praising him every week..Guys like Nick Wright making up false statements and half truth..He often contradicts himself all to promote lebron..So yes it is important people like Chris speak up..Because this is who the public listens to..They didn't watch mj play they don't look at clips..They don't watch old games..They don't do any research whatever..So it's easy for media to control narratives..Nick and Shannon get the big bucks from klutch sports to do that
@@samkellogg2805 why would we let Lebron be judged differently from the players that came before him who we’re judged in the Goat debate by the same criteria? Why are we changing it for Lebron? That’s all that’s been happening Nick Wright and Shannon Sharpe’s and others have tried to change or muddy the waters around the Goat debate! If the Majority consistently says it’s MJ young&old then y do they keep having a debate? Normally u debate things that are closely connected. MJ and Lebron isn’t that way at all! U can’t move the goalpost to try and prop up Lebron! 🤣
But Lebron is the new GOAT, and some dusty, bad breath analyst Rob Parker cant change my mind EVER!!!
Klutch Sports doing a good job
Lebron isnt catching up... that ship sailed long ago
LeBron is the best specimen the NBA has seen, Jordan defines winning to the greatest level in sports. 6 straight titles is tough to do.
Crazy how he didn't win 6 str8 huh
@Javon He did. The Bulls didn't win 6 straight.
If u have 2 3peats how can it be 6 str8. He got beat in 95. Idk how that's 6 str8
@@javon1134 Dude played 1/4 of the season. All in all, LeBron best specimen ever, MJ is a basketball GOD.
@Beery had to go get rodman. How hakeem beat the magic and he was the only all nba player but mj couldn't best them and he had 2. Superteam for his era
Lebron would have 6 titles as well if KD never joined GSW. Ain't no way MJ would've been able to beat that over stacked GSW team as well
And KD would have a title in OKC with the youngest team ever if lebron hadn't formed that Miami superteam.
Rob and certain type of fans who never played in the NBA would say” some players get it wrong” 😂😂
You don't have to play to understand how retarded most of the players are.
Cause they do. Have you heard ex players give their takes on tv shows on current players? Have you seen former players who become gms and work in the front office literally run teams into the ground? Remember all the great moves isiah Thomas and mj made in the front office and ownership?
Why you guys not talk about how the longevity actually hurts Bron's case. Like we all know Bron from 2012-2018 was the best version of Bron there ever was but somehow he has better stats now. It proves how weak the NBA is now with all the rule changes and even to an extent athletes. But we always hear guys like Colin and Nick say "guys are bigger, stronger, faster now" it clearly isn't true with all the injuries and there is also a huge difference in toughness.
Micheal Jordan is undefeated in the finals.
they lied to you mate. Losing earlier is worse than losing in the finals, simple logic
@@luancosta7693 What ??
@@luancosta7693 Jordan has never lost a NBA Finals series
@@CensorTube84 he had numerous early playoffs exits 😂🤔🤡 you’ll have a point if Jordan never went home early in the playoffs
@@devontacosby8593 MJ never lost a finals series even when he had only one other allstar. Lebron hasn't won anything in a normal basketball setting without having two other allstars that were franchise players on other teams teaming up. Give MJ two other allstars that were franchise players on other teams teaming up with him he wins 12 rings and definitely wouldn't lose like lebron did
chris love hearing himself talk. baby boomers are not controlling any narratives, they don't even use the internet
Catching up to Michael Jordan in an Era of players to young to young to even remember Michael Jordan playing is not an accomplishment! If he was Catching up to MJ then this would hv been unanimous in favor of LeBron from the start because these are his current peers who've played against him!
Bron is the GOAT
Btw, Ali missed like 3 years of his prime, being locked up, as a conscientious objector cuz he wouldn't go to Vietnam to shoot the yellow man cuz he didn't have no problem with the yellow man.
But nobody moved in the ring like Muhammad Ali, certainly no heavy weights.
When LBJ retires and his documentary tracing his story from childhood on the cover of SI, and his accomplishments as a businessman (which is discussed but not detailed) and his hands in many successes… LBJ will have more media coverage than any athlete in modern history…younger generations will sound exactly like Rob Parker and Broussard when talking about Lebron
And the younger generations will laugh at them as they try to prop up someone with 6 finals losses as the goat
He’s going to be forgotten
@Aaron Roberto 👏 Lebron fans want to hate on Jordan’s legacy yet think it’s going to flow the same way and become more popular. 🤦♂️
@Aaron Roberto you're suggesting they lied about Kobe's career? Like they over-hyped him while he was playing?
@Aaron Roberto yup and the truth about those ped accusations will come out when he's done playing
Rob " better to lose in 1st round than make the finals against better competition" Parker. 😅😅😅😂😂
Imo, as a millennial, only ppl that have lived through both eras can truly opine on MJ versus LeBron.
To me it’s Kobe vs mj that’s the only real convo
To me it’s Kobe vs mj that’s the only real convo
The fact that they don’t understand why Tmac is on the list is funny. One of the best players ever just had a short prime
He was great but should he be on the goat list?
It can’t be generation X that believes Lebron is the goat over MJ, because I’m generation X and I’m 56 years old, so we’re old enough to know better!! 😂 I love Lebron, but no, MJ is the goat!
Rob Parker look a Nintendo Wii sports character
The GOAT of the sport never lost a championship game at the highest levels. Won in college, FIBA the Olympics and is 6 for 6 in NBA titles. He never got swept or choked. Never even allowed a game 7. He has the highest career playoff scoring average of 33.5 and the highest average in a finals at 41. MJ beat his superstar opponents. James teamed up with several of his and lost 6 times. LOST SIX!!!
Why is this a discussion other than just for the sake of having a discussion? Fn Recentcy bias. Smh.
To be a "LeBron is GOAT" guy....is a literal embarrassment to sport competition. Imagine a guy heralded as the "best ever" having a losing Finals record with multiple embarrassments and a mediocre- at- best shooter. He hasn't played defense in years...has load managed an average of 55 games a year over the last 5 years to catch a longevity scoring record while being a defensive liability. His game has more holes than Swiss cheese that he covers up with his size/athleticism and referee help.
Not...even...close
@@bwink23 So well said. Not even close.
I think you’re wrong about Gen X. We’re on Team Jordan.
Indeed.
The media can truly control the narrative these days. It’s mind boggling.
Not as much as they used to, with so many other independant media outlets including youtube.
The man shoe has its own documentary. My fault, the man shoe has it's own movie.
Lebron Lost In 6 NBA FINALS, there’s no debate who the GOAT is, How Absurd.
MICHAEL JORDAN in (667 games), pre-retirement.
1984-1993.
3 rings (6 career)
3 NBA mvps (6 career)
3 finals mvps (6 career)
7 scoring titles (10 career)
3 steals titles
Defensive player of the year.
LEBRON JAMES career (1300+ plus games)
4 rings
4 NBA mvps
4 finals mvps
1 scoring title
1 assist title
JORDAN arguably did more in 9 years then Bron in his career till date (20 years).
And the reason Bron throws powder in the air, and the reason you chase rings, and the reason you made Space Jam 2. Lebron has always tried to replace Michael Jordan in people’s minds; FAIL.
Jordan took the game to new heights while Lebron found new lows. Jordan made average players Champions while Lebron made All-Stars average.
michael jordan is popular OVER SEAS in places where they don't even KNOW who lebron IS...
I mean no one can erase those first round exits mj had,they won't hold him "retiring" twice.they don't hold the wizards years against him but people constantly complain about 1 thing about lebron ,his finals record 🤦🏾♂️
They are bias …. I use to think Lebron was hype until I watched him carry that trash ass cavs teams to the finals by himself I think in 2018…he’s the goat in my eyes
Bruh LeBron got bodied by Jason Terry in the finals, that wouldn't fly with jordan
Lebron missed the playoffs his first time years, stop it.
Yeah like I’d rather get there
@@vicarious4231 Bron took that mfs soul stop playing
MJ played 15 seasons. What happened in the 9 seasons he didn't make the Finals? What excuses y'all got?? 🤦🏽♂️
The Kareem disrespect must stop
My Top 5 (my opinion)
MJ
Kareem
Lebron
Magic
Kobe (he's in my top 5, idc what, espn or whoever tells you he's top 5 easily) keep playing I'll move him higher 🤣🤣 but RIP Mamba man ❤
I agree with ur list. Kobe is def a top five player
Agree I may put Kobe after Kareem!
The problem with Kareem is he literally played with the player that’s fourth on your all time list.
@@odigomez1787 what does that have to do with anything?
@@robertwilson9528 what’s your argument for Kareem, if not the 6 ships?? My point is playing with another all time great player brings him down. He’s only won 2 finals MVP.
Let ROB TALK CHRIS DAMN
I agree. I think there's been a disconnect between them recently. Rob don't even put effort cause he can't get a word in which explains why he's always on his phone 😂
If you ever saw Jordan play at any capacity - you already know
Facts!
They should poll the entire league. Not 100 players
Statistical sample size.
Klutch Sports has 30 active players in the league….I wonder how many polled where Klutch Sports athletes..
MJ all day.....
In the boxing community, Sugar Ray Robinson is considered the greatest to ever live
It wasn't the last dance it was them seeing what he did. People understand winning, Jordan being the best player not just on the team, but in the game being played and playing with less help than Lebron. People aren't stupid and just aren't responding to a special, that's ridiculous! For example, Lebron is still the consistent best player on the lakers, though some say AD. However, AD was the clear reason why Lebron won his 4th ring. Pippen and others contributed to Jordan, but Jordan lead 90% of the games in several areas throughout the playoffs and during all 6 championship wins. It's an insult to AD, Reeves and Ru, who literally won that game, if we credit lebron. If Bron wins a 5th ring it willn't be b/c of him. but a 5th ring makes him the goat?
Jordan is the GOAT but ppl act like he did everything on those championship teams by himself. He had a lot of good players and front office too, that did the other things to allow MJ to shine.
@@cooljohn6961 No one acts like MJ did everything by himself. That's you MJ detractors getting emotional. Lol
@@x-man9473 I said MJ’s the GOAT but ppl go overboard.
Once Bron retires he'll fall to his rightful number 2 spot it's simple Jordan never fail to show up Bron crumbled against Dallas case closed
All time leading turnover king, dont forget that one.
This is exactly why most people shouldn’t get to talk about basketball. He’s spent 20 years as a primary ball handler, of COURSE he has the most turnovers.
That’s like saying your coworker who has worked there for 50 years has taken the most days off to imply they don’t work hard.
@Ricky Robby Same reason he is all time leading scorer. Can't have it both ways.
@@rickyrobby8133 how come he doesn’t have the most assists as well then being the primary ball handler 😂. He has 500 more career turnovers than Westbrook. That’s insane
@@MrJonnyl123 he’s played 6 more years than Russ…of course he has more. That’s a ridiculous response. And he’s fourth all time in assists. You’re acting like he’s not even in the top 10.
@@rickyrobby8133 John Stockton played 20 years and is number one is assists and doesn’t have anywhere near as many turnovers as lebron does. Lebrons been a turnover machine his whole career
7:09 - 7:31 He Literally Contradicted Himself 🤣 So LeBron Only Got More Votes Cause He Did Something “Recently“ But Jordan Can Drop A Documentary Refreshing People’s Minds Of His Glory Days Before A Greatest Of All Time Vote ??? You Got It Rob 💀🤣
No…he really didn’t…How about the fact the Lebron has 30 active players that more than likely were included in this poll signed to Klutch Sports
@@jhad777 Yes He Did 🤣
I think the GOAT convo for lebron in 10 years is gonna be pretty easy to make. Holds most playoff records, all time leading scorer, top 4 assist. Most games played, most minutes played..40k plus points. The most gifted athlete to ever play the sport, never stepped a toe out of line. The old generation too biased to just admit what is clear as day
Roids
Ya it’s clear, Jordan is the 🐐. Apparently the new generation also thinks Jordan is the 🐐
To each his own. But I've been watching the NBA for over 50 years. And although I think that LeBron is one hell of a player, he never gave me the juice of being mesmerized. He never stood out to me as being cut from a different cloth other than perhaps his physicality. Aside from that, I simply see him as one of many great players on the roster. Now when I see Steph Curry shoot those 3- pointers on a regular like he does and no one comes even close to touching him on that level, that's on that genius level like Mike. He's not TRYING to be great. He's just great. LeBron is great, but he's not unique. He's not on that genius level in my opinion. He's already been in the league for five years more than what Jordan played, and I still don't see it. Not even close. And quite frankly, I think he's trying too hard and his ego is in overdrive on this one. He's literally doing whatever he can to crown himself King. Michael never did that. In fact, he never considered himself to be the greatest player of all time. But the rest of the entire world did. And they still do. I think that LeBron has some undercurrent, psychological unworthiness going on in the background of his mind and underneath it all, he actually doesn't feel like he's good enough. Hence, his driving desire to prove that he's good enough.
I’ve never watched MJ play growing up but after the Last Dance I still don’t think it’s a close debate unless Lebron gets like 8 rings but how can you compete against 6-0 in the finals
Why isn't Bill Russell the goat then 11 rings?! But it's diff Eras right? So then you can't say Jordan is better than bron cause diff eras right?
@@Outtasightcali It doesn't matter. Point of the story is Lebron is nowhere near is great as Jordan. No matter how the media or current players want to frame it. It's not reality no matter how they want to force it that way.
@@Outtasightcalinobody with a functional brain think of the goat debate is base on just rings. its the complete package - more mvps, more rings in less time, 10 time scoring champ, more all nba defensive 1st team/dpoy in less time, transcended the sports, killer instinct, arguably most clutch player, highest PER all time, 30/10/10 when asked to play point guard, iconic plays and shoes, slamdunk champ, zero meltdown in a given series unlike lebum, only gold metals, 6-0, should i go on
It’s not the rings, mj is just better at basketball in every aspect
The fact a documentary he created is what swayed you says quite a bit about your ability to process information in an unbiased way.
Great show guys by the way
So after watching the last Dance the vote wasn't tainted 🤔🤦🏿♂️🤣 come on Rob
How is he catching up? Just because he’s played longer? His defensive titles and mvp titles and rings have not eclipsed Jordan’s. I’ve never seen anything like this where the longer lebron plays even in losing his goat cache goes up.
I didn’t watch mike live but I know one thing, it’s no way in hell, I could say lebron is the greatest to ever pick up the ball
1. Michael Jordan
2. David Robinson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'neal
5. Patrick Ewing
6. Moses Malone
7. Larry Bird
8. Magic Johnson
9. Kareem
10. Isiah Thomas
Even with Bron and Klutch Sports obsessively setting up and controlling narratives about his legacy as they’ve done for several years, most players still see right through him and are smart enough to know that Jordan is still much better.
I actually think Lebron, his media fanboys and clutch sports, obsession with Lebron being universally accepted as the goat has resulted in large segments of nba fandom disliking him and rooting against him.
Yeah, he is catching up the age of MJ!!! Not the goat conversation… what a joke?