Nikola Jokic is Already an All-Time Great: A Historical Deep Dive | Islands In The League
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2023
- In this episode of Islands In The League, JJ Redick deep dives into Jokic's accolades and stats to show how he compares to other all-time NBA greats and officially declares him the "Efficiency Greatest of All Time." JJ also premieres "Take Fixer Upper," when he puts on his hard to renovate and improve NBA hot takes. He's then joined byJosh Appelbaum to take a look at recent odds for divisional winners, Most Improved Player, and more.
Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter TH-cam channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights. - กีฬา
Jokic winning Finals MVP the same year they said he cant win a 3rd regular season MVP because of rings is so poetic and beautiful.
I want to see him do it when his competition isn’t historically weak. He beat KD & Book, I’ll give him that. But Phoenix had dog s*** role players and injuries. Other than that- injured dysfunctional TWolves team, mediocre Lakers team, and one of the worst teams to make the Finals in NBA history with the Heat who have no superstars and only one star
@@zeus4885 cope
@@zeus4885 twolves had 1 injury & u see how they playin this yr right? & the lakers had the best record out of any team afta the trade deadline. Miami, despite being an 8th seed, was playing well above their ability. They were the best 3 point shooting team in the playoffs, & beat the top seeds in their conference respectively. To downplay this because they came into the playoffs as an 8th seed is pretty dumb, when you can also use that logic to say something like “ yea, a player jus dropped 60. But he’s never done it before & he usually comes off the bench so it doesn’t matter “. Stop running off narratives fam, name’s arent what make a good basketball team.
@@zeus4885 how many superstars or stars are on a team also have nothing to do with how good the team is💀
@@zeus4885 didnt the lakers beat the heat in the bubble??
Jokic’s legacy is secured at this point. He doesn’t even have to make another shot or grab another rebound.
¹
JJ, what’s going on with that shirt bro?
Jokic is a all time great already and been the best player on the nba the last 3/4 years
He’s the standard by modern big men will be judged. Bigs from a the previous generations just had a completely different style of play, so it’s hard to compare them to current players.
Lmao that’s not true. He has legitimate top 5 potential, needs some more accolades
I feel like fans care about Jokic greatness more than Jokic himself lol
They do 100%, mans doesn't care about ball at all
Definitely
@@YetiCoolBrotheryea thats a dumb comment. He was a 41st pick & outta shape & went from that to a 2 time mvp & finals MVP. U don’t do tht if u don’t care about basketball. He just doesn’t care about nba media or the things tht come with it .
@@UnoDinero95001 I believe he finds basketball enjoyable and likes his teammates, probably a competive person naturally. I don't believe he cares about basketball in the way that any of the greats do, I don't see him giving back to the game in anyway once he retires or whatever.
@@YetiCoolBrotherWhat does giving back mean?
We can have no conversation about Joel because he's historically been average in the playoffs playing on stacked team after stacked team with multiple all star teammates.
He's not close to Giannis and definitely not Jokic who has been incredible across the playoffs right from the get go.
fax
I'm a Jokić fan but a player like Joel can always turn things around. You never know when things might align for him. For now, he's def behind Giannis and Jokić
Correction: Joel has historically been *injured* in the playoffs and hasn't shown an ability to overcome the injury, defense focused on eliminating him from offense, and his deeply flawed "all-star" players and wafer thin benches.
James Harden: Choker of all chokers who just quits in high pressure games if he's not on fire.
Ben Simmons: Refuses to shoot the ball because he's embarrassed by how uncool he looks when missing free throws that he shoots with the wrong hand. He passed up a poster dunk over Trae Young because he didn't want to potentially shoot a free throw, and it cost them the game and series.
Tobias Harris: Salary has been an anchor around the 76ers' neck. Decent role player who in his youth put up inefficient bulk stats on bad teams.
Jimmy Butler: The ONLY true all-star level player that has played alongside Embiid. If Jimmy stays in Philadelphia, the Sixers have at least 1 championship right now. But Elton Brand chose Ben Simmons over Jimmy.
Tyrese MaxSpeed: Just now coming into his own as a star player. Hopefully we get to see him alongside a healthy Embiid in the upcoming playoffs.
If Sixers decide to give up and do another rebuild, I'm sure my Thunder would be willing to take the extremely overrated & overpaid Embiid off their hands for a couple 1st round picks, maybe a pick swap or 2, Poku and Bertans.
embiid cooks jokic
Let's put JJ lesson to work. I think this is easy fix
We can have no conversation about Joel yet.
I agree for the moment he still is way behind Jokic and Giannis, but in case he can get everything together in 1/2runs in the playoffs what was exactly the premise of JJ then he easily can enter those conversations(bringing all his regular season history to the table). I still would put him in that case behind both of them, but a conversation is to be had for top 25 or so.
The most "scary" thing about Jokic is that his game is not reliant on physical things that will start to fade eventually. If he wants to, he can keep playing at an incredible level well into his 30s because he is not reliant on speed, jumping high etc. He is also not prone to injuries due to not moving at such a high speed with violent changes of pace and awkward landings, which are where so many injures happen.
yes, i feel like he will only get better as he gets older untill he doesnt want to try anymore
His lower back is his weak spot. He will need to keep developing core strength and protecting his lower back (muscles, spine...)
@@tnosugarAs a Serb, I can confirm...
Jokic is a hall of famer if he retires today. He has done more than people who are already in. Giannis is right there with him.
💯
Giannis is right there with him with traditional accomplishments, sure. But in terms of on court impact I don't think it's even remotely close. Giannis has shown several times that he can be stifled in the half court against elite defenses in the playoffs. There's no man or defense in existence that can stop Jokic. Giannis missed 14 free throws in an elimination game. Giannis got shut down by Kawhi Leonard when Kawhi was on the Raptors. Giannis is one of the worst shooters in the NBA. Giannis is amazing, but I think putting him in the same breathe as Jokic is blasphemous. Also, no one wants to talk about it, but Giannis's only ring came when the Nets lost Kyrie, when the Lakers were hurt in the playoffs, when Warriors didn't have Klay, when the Heat were coming off a 6 week offseason. In my opinion the Bucks didn't beat a great team to win that championship so I think that title has a huge asterisk because of that shortened offseason and the injuries that resulted from it.
@@sitonmuhdeckasshole Whether you like Giannis or not, he has accomplished a lot. Enough to be in the Hall of Fame. That’s all I’m saying. Not comparing the two.
I have felt Jokic has been an all-time great for at least 6 years. Every time I saw him play he passed the eye test. Never is hurried or out of control. Makes everyone around him better, all-time great rebounder and passer, good defensively. Good shooter, great in the post. Perfect pick and roll partner on either end.
you thought he was an all time great in his 3rd yr when he was averaging 18,10 and 6? I mean i get that he looked good. but thats a low bar for all time great lol
@@chadd980 genius that's the point! He was young and everyone's path is different. He was a diamond hiding in plain sight. I clearly saw it coming even before his 3rd year; and many others did too. And we got clowned until it wasn't possible anymore. And now the same ones who were clowning us before can't even accept the fact someone could have seen it coming lmaoo...
@@damianocunego2703 so the logical thing is to say he looked like he could be an all time great since then. but you legit can't say he already was, because thats just false. Hope that makes sense. I'm not arguing against him btw. I always thought dude was amazing. also no need to be hostile its just youtube comments, thanks :)
@@damianocunego2703it doesn’t matter what you saw in his 3rd year. Nobody was expecting this
@@nickjones5495 ok buddy nobody in the world sould have predicted this then 🤣
Nikola Jokic deserves credit for growing from a second-round pick to the best NBA player in Nuggets history.
Nikola Jokic's style of play was highly praised by LeBron James and Draymond Green.
Jokic is such a unique player. It's like watching Steve Nash in a giants body
Also highly praised by Kobe. He knew Jokic had potential to be the next MVP. Jokic been my favorite since 2016. I just wish the refs would stop giving him a hard time. Its as if they want Embiid to get another mvp.
@@alfasiger4178 Adam Silver doesn't want Jokic to succeed because he's the leader of a small market team, and tells the refs to punish him while giving Embiid all kinds of favorable calls. The league is rigged, so Jokic is even better than his stats would suggest.
Steph Curry's also a big fan of Jokic.
Giannis and Jokic are the greatest of their generation so far and I think it will remain that way. Both won 2 mvp back to back and then the fmvp right after. Both are on contenders so they have time to increase that as well. I think both of them could crack that top 15 for sure.
West Final MVP also counts...
I wouldn't mind Denver vs Milwaukee for the Finals. One of them joins the Big Six (multiple rings, MVPs and Finals MVPs) then.
Love this take. Those two are the most dominant players in the league. Id put curry embiid as 3rd and 4th.
Joker >> Giannis imo. I don’t think we will be talking about Giannis in 30 years.
@@theloniousvic Curry > Jokic > Giannis > Embiid
Jokic is exactly the type of player who we would discount bc we think his athleticism couldnt hold up today. But he is holding up today.
Thanks JJ for speaking out on Nikola. SAVE THIS COMMENT, Nikola Jokic is still severely underrated in what he does. He is now having asn influence over the whole league this year if you watch different teams they are all playing more jokic ball. His team has NO OTHER ALL STAR, and he won a championship with this team in a only losing 4 games. if Nikola Jokic played on a "superteam" with another or two allstars/superstars, his numbers would be so crazy it would break the NBA.
It's crazy just last year NBA players poll by the athletic had Giannis votes as the #1 player, with 52% of the votes, to Jokic's 8% of which player you'd want to start your franchise with. I think he's the most underrated player in NBA history by a large margin. And the best player alive by a large margin. And I think he's probably the best offensive player of all time as well.
@@sitonmuhdeckassholeMichael Jordan is still alive you know?
Jokic best player in the NBA , but the fact that he has no all stars around him help his numbers, his rebounds are high because of all the misses , shot attempts , etc
I believe Jokic to be in a completely different tier to Giannis and Embiid. There are defensive solutions to limit Giannis and Embiid. We've seen it happen in key playoff series. They each have clear weaknesses. Giannis is a bad shooter. Embiid is a mediocre decision maker and tends to tire easily. There is no defensive solution to Jokic. He can score an efficient 30 no matter who you put on him. He also elevates his teammates in a way that Giannis and Embiid do not. Teammates have career years playing with him. He is an offensive system unto himself. Giannis is effectively a point-forward, but his passes are simpler and don't open up unexpected opportunities the way Jokic's do. Jokic's only "weakness" is defense, but he's gotten good enough on that end that the Nuggets are able to have an elite playoff defense.
The tl;dr version of this - I think Jokic is in a tier by himself right now, and I think the gap is significant.
I’m inclined to agree, I believe Jokic to be many levels above those two as well.
Simply because of one simple stat. The triple double. A stat that I think represents just what the player brings to the all round game. Imbiid is not even on the same continent
Career. Seasons played. Normal season td’s. Play off td’s. Total ave. Per season
Giannis 11 42 3 45 4.6 td’s
Joel 8 7 0 7 0.875 td’s
Jokic 9 123 16 139 15.44444rec
Stats from land of basketball
Yes please more videos praising Jokic’s unstoppable rise to Greatness and top 5 All Time
His joy and hapiness fixing horrible takes is truly heartwarming
I’ve been watching the game since the late 80s, I’m from Chicago, I grew up watching the one and only GOAT, MJ, and I was perplexed when some of the so-called analysts and writers said they couldn’t vote Jokic MVP for a straight 3rd time 😂 Jokic is amazing and was definitely the MVP last season and should be the MVP this season 💯 If I’m building my all-time team to compete against any all-time team, I’m starting with MJ and Jokic 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Eloquent , knowledgeable , with personal integrity host . One of the first who recognized pure greatness of Joker . Greetings from Serbia , keep up amazing work .
I mean he’s already got 2 MVPs, a ring, and a FMVP. No deep dive needed. He’s in the Top 30 All-Time.
His ring is kind of a fluke though as he played a bunch of injured play-in teams in the weakest path to a title in NBA history. Flukes don’t repeat themselves and Jokic will get exposed for his horrendous defense this time around
@@zeus4885cope
@@zeus4885if you truly believe this, go find a different sport
@@zeus4885how is that a fluke? the 1 seed usually gets favorable matchups in the playoffs, and even then every team they played in the west were very solid teams and they still had to play the team that beat both of the favorites in the east in the finals.
Every team has injuries in the playoffs as well so that seems like a pretty pointless asterisk to put on a titile
@@zeus4885fluke? lmaoo stop hating man
Advance stats are legit! The players topping BPM, WS/48, PER, and VORP are the Mount Rushmore of Basketball: Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, MJ, Shaq, Lebron, and Steph. Joker is among them. Embiid and Giannis are not far behind! I love this game.
...also loving JJ calling out "casuals" in in his comments section.
fax bruh
Where's Kobe
The "Take Fixer Upper" was actually a hilarious segment one of my favorites from the pod in a bit. The biting sarcasm and overall "oh my god these can't be serious" vibe of the segment struck a great tone. Perfect way to incorporate the insane takes that get clicks, while also fighting back against the hilarity of it all, all while getting a good laugh out of it.
The Fixer Upper segment is great. Such a funny way to talk about the themes of the year.
Finally someone giving Joker his flowers
I was writhing with every bucket Jokic produced vs us in the past WCF but being high on him for years it’s pretty awesome watching him calmly destroy his comp
One thing no one can deny: Nikola Jokic is the side hustling GOAT.
Love the Joker praise. IYKYK
Ah, man this has been on my mind for a while. Jokic is almost certainly a top 10 all-time player right now. And no one has really discussed this publicly. I'm glad JJ is talking about this.
Top 20 IMO. He just needs to keep doing what he's doing and he will crack the top 10.
His accomplishments are great, but not Top 10 worthy yet. (5X All-star, 2X MVP, 1X FMVP, 5x All-NBA)
I think if he wins another title and finals mvp he has a strong case for top 10
@@GodInHisPrime He will end up top 3 easily. But thatìs not the point. Basketball players can't be judged on their accomplisments alone. You gotta watch the whole context. Nobody has ever played at Jokic's level in the history of basketball period.
@@damianocunego2703top 3??? He’s not passing Kareem, Jordan, or Lebron. No way no how
@@damianocunego2703 when you are talking top 10 greatest ever, accomplishments and longevity are a huge part of it… If it was just about being amazing for 5 years Shaq would be the GOAT.
If you wanna say Jokic is playing at a higher level than anyone else in history right now, you might have an argument.
Love how JJ always keeps it interesting, always something new.
I was a Jokic hater because he wasn't winning when it matters but after that finals run I am absolutely a fan now, his game is unbelievable. He's like a new generation wilt, he is just dominating like I haven't seen in a LONG time. This mf will drop 40-20-20 on you like it's nothing in MEANINGFUL games.
Jokic has always been a great, the NBA gods knew he's hard to sell to non Nuggets fans, but his numbers don't lie. By the end of his career ( hopefully it's a long one) he will be the greatest center to play the game
yo
Lol we don’t want you as a fan bruh you became a fan after LAST FINALS? Gtfooooo
JJ the only one in NBA media who talks about Jokic lmao
Jokic tried to go to the finals playing with F. Campazzo....and he almost got them there
Jokic is definitely definitely one of the best players to ever play. I would not put Embid in the same conversation yet.
The stuff that Jokic does week in week out- the passing- the efficiency- crazy shots - is mind bending.
People don’t speak of him in the same way probably because he is not flashy, he’s not flamboyant, he’s not putting people on posters, he’s not beefing with people online. He just comes in, does his job and fades away in the background. Yet he is putting up all time great numbers
He is breaking all sorts of records and stats, he’s still very much in his peak with many many years to go. I’m not a nuggets supporter, but it’s just so much fun to watch him play basketball. Enjoy greatness!
From a Nuggets fan, thank you. We’ve been telling NBA twitter this for the past 3-4 years and they don’t want to listen. Jokic is so cerebral it’s hard to take in sometimes. It’s a treat to watch him every night. And we’re trying to cherish it in the moment. We won’t see anyone like him for a long while if ever.
Well played JJ. You and your team create creative and compelling content. Thank you!
This is so funny because Nick Wright did this whole rundown of Jokic’s advanced stats on The Herd but from a negative perspective. It’s one of the craziest things you’ll ever hear because he claiming Jokic was the worst mvp ever and then 9 months later he won the championship
As a nuggets fan this entire video was the epitome of that gif of Michael from The Office slapping the table and going “THANK YOU” Shoutout JJ one of the only media folks giving Jok props yeeeeeaaaars ago and not just since he won a chip like everyone else
This is a golden era of the NBA, good call
he plays the game as it should be played... as a Team game... and he is doing it well.. he still hasn't hit his celling...
JJ Redick gives me hope of a better NBA media
I’ve always liked redick’s commentary but this video was the first to give you a sense of his Dad/school yard humor. And I like it.
Real note- even JJ can’t save the clippers
JJ, I really enjoy your witty humor and your unique perspective of this great game. Thank you for what you do. One of the few ppl I consistently listen to because of your objectivity.
Man I love this podcast. JJ has been instrumental in teaching me about all things basketball, truly grateful
I'm a huge fan of Jokic's game (I like advanced stats too JJ) and he absolutely can do down as top 10 all-time. I think that top 10 is very difficult to make though cause of who is currently in it. My personal top 10 in order is Jordan, Kareem/LeBron, LeBron/Kareem, Magic, Duncan/Kobe, Kobe/Duncan, Bird/Steph, Steph/Bird, Shaq and Wilt. I have Russell at #11 as I just don't value his 11 rings the same way I value the 5 that Duncan, Kobe and Magic have for obvious reasons, competition was way different back then. I have the double listed ones there as interchangeable where there is legit arguments for both although the name I list first is who I put. Jokic and Giannis are in that next tier with guys like KD, Hakeem, Dirk, KG and them. They absolutely could rise in to that top 10 but it would take at least another ring and Finals MVP to push someone like Wilt out. We really are witnessing some of the best players to ever play the game right now with LeBron still playing, Curry still playing, Jokic and Giannis competing for championships and MVP awards and all that. Then we have the young guys who with a championship and Finals MVP will start their own journey to the GOAT lists. Great video as always JJ!
Yeah, if we go by accomplishments, which is fair, Jokic has some work to do to get in the top 10, but if we judge them all in their prime, I think Jokic is already better than Wilt, Shaq, Bird, Steph, Kobe, Duncan and Magic. I think only Jordan, Kareem and LeBron can be debated to be better in their primes because of their defense. Offensively Jokic is the best player I've ever seen, and I think that's what the eGOAT numbers show. I didn't get to see pre-2000s players live, but I poured through their numbers, watched games and read books and articles about their accomplishments and I think Jokic has them offensively, especially because I don't think we've seen his best, nor do I think he wants to dominate the ball to the level he probably should, and if he did those raw numbers would be even crazier. I think he could average 37-14-12 in the playoffs if he didn't think it would hurt the play of his teammates by not giving them enough play to maintain their rhythm.
@@sitonmuhdeckasshole Yeah see I'm a huge Jokic fan but I'm not going to put his prime over guys like the ones you listed. All of those guys have 3 year stretches where they walked away with as much or more hardware. Guys like Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Steph and Kobe have all had more dominant 3 year stretches than Jokic which is actually helping Jokic by using the 3 most successful years for him. Duncan had 2 MVP awards, 2 Finals MVP awards, 2 Rings in 3 years. Shaq went 1 MVP awards 3 Finals MVP awards and 3 Rings in 3 years. I'm a huge Jokic fan and he's had a historically good 3 years (especially with advanced stats) but I'd take Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Steph, Bird and those guys peaks over the past 3 years from Jokic. Then you remember their peaks are even longer and more successful than Jokic's so far. Now if Jokic wins another 2 rings (and 2 Finals MVP awards) and 2 MVP awards in the next 4 season we'd have to revisit this conversation. Then he'd have 3 rings, 3 Finals MVP awards and 4 regular season MVP awards. Would you take that career over Duncan's? 5 Rings, 2 MVP awards, 3 Finals MVP awards and never below 50 wins in a season? I know I wouldn't but I'd probably take that over Shaq, Bird, Steph and those peaks. Basically whether we talk about peak or longevity Jokic isn't quite there yet. The fact he's mentioned at all with them shows just how good Jokic is. I'm a Spurs fan but with my team being terrible right now (Excited for Wemby ofc) I've been cheering for the Nuggets for the past 3-4 years (For Jokic and fellow Canadian Jamal Murray).
Yeah, I think it's too early to judge them on 3 -5 year stretches because Jokic just now hit is peak a few years ago and for two of the last 3 years he didn't have Murray with him in the playoffs, so I think if you want to compare apples to apples you have to compare regular season and none of the players you mentioned came close to leading the league in Win Shares and PER 4 seasons in a row like Jokic is on pace to do, only LeBron, Kareem, Wilt and MJ have done that. I don't think Duncan would've had those rings or 50 win seasons without 3 Hall Of Famers and another MVP on his team, Jokic has nowhere near the same level of help, or arguably the greatest coach of all time. But I agree Duncan is the best of those guys and would be the hardest for Jokic to top, but I think yes, if he does 3 peat and get another regular season MVP, I think that 5 year stretch would be definitely be better than Duncan's. I think Jokic is already inarguably a far superior offensive player than Duncan ever was, but Duncan was far superior defensively so it's a bit of a "what do you value more" situation but personally I value great offense over great defense. And the advanced stats seem to prefer him, as he's already led the league in Win Shares and VORP more than Duncan ever did, and his win shares per 48 the past 3 years was far better than Duncan's during his best 3 year stretch. But i appreciate the respectful conversation and respect your knowledge. Salute sir. @@Cardb33
Sorry can you explain why the 3 year stretch helps Jokic though? And by the way Jokic has already had 6 seasons with better win shares per 48 than Kobe ever did, also Kobe never led the league in win shares once. I've watched hundreds of Kobe games as a lifelong Lakers fan and I promise he was never anywhere near the player Jokic is. The eye test backs up the numbers having Jokic miles better than Kobe in my opinion and this is coming from someone who cried when Kobe died haha@@Cardb33
@@sitonmuhdeckasshole I agree with a lot of what you said but the whole part about Duncan only having the success he had cause of 3 Hall of Famers and another MVP on his team and the best coach of all time isn't nearly as true as some make it out to be. The Admiral was old not in his prime and they never really had success until Duncan got there. Then Parker and Manu, I believe both are underrated especially Manu but they were never top 3 at their position in the league. Kawhi was the other one I assume you were thinking about and Duncan never played with a prime Kawhi he played with a young Kawhi. Without Duncan The Admiral, Parker and Manu never have the HOF induction. Duncan was the common denominator across 5 championships in 3 different decades. He won BEFORE Manu, Parker and Kawhi were around and he won AFTER The Admiral left. Again I'm a huge Jokic fan he's my favorite player in the league (aside from Wemby now haha) and I've been a huge Jokic defender. Duncan's peak and longevity in terms of overall success are just better though. Numbers are great and show Jokic's 3 year run is the best ever stat wise but I'd take Duncan's tangible success with multiple rings over the numbers. Jokic really needs 3+ rings to even enter the top 10 discussion all-time but even with 2 and another MVP award he'll be right outside of it which is a really an all-time great career.
Great time to be a nugs fan
… finally 😅😅😅
Thanks JJ for being objective and going into this with such details.
Greetings from Serbia
"Take Fixer Upper" was incredibly entertaining. I enjoyed it and I NEED MORE OF IT.
Jokic PER and brutal stat line can only be destroyed by the refs if they continue to do bs call's
I think part of the reason we're hesitant to put current players in our "top" lists is because we don't want the former greats to be lost to history. No one today is going to forget the names Curry, Antetokounmpo, Durant, Jokic, etc. But the names Russell, Robertson, Erving, Chamberlain, and many others are slowly but surely being devalued or even forgotten.
GRAT VIDEO JJ AWSOME IDEAS AND KEEPING IT FUN FOR EVERY ONE
Love the show, JJ! I never could stand listening to SA, or KP raising their voices to get their point across so this is a breath of fresh air. Huge Jokic fan here, and I appreciate you're making the point to acknowledge him and his greatness, when so many others choose not to discuss it. The stache? Hmmm... 🤔😉
Thank you JJ this right here is spot on. We are watching greatness with these 3 I am a little
Bias lol with Jokic! He is Him! The man’s peak which we still not even have hit is the highest ever! If he wins one more some big conversations need to be had.
i think when its all said and done, he could be at least on lebron lvl
Nikola Jokic is one of the most almost complete player in the NBA right now
he is the most complete player ever with LeBron
*Nikola Jokic is the most complete player in the NBA right now*
There, I fixed it.
Y'all are such casuals to not say OFFENSIVELY... I'd agree that Jokic is the most complete OFFENSIVE player in the league but defense matters. And Jokic is NOT a good defender at all.
And this is not hate. I love Jokic. I just don't forget the entire other side of the ball like you casuals seem to do. I think Jokic is the most complete offensive player alongside maybe Luka (though Luka is not nearly as efficient). LeBron is NOT because he can't even shoot 3s or FTs at even an AVERAGE percentage. Any time I see a nigga mention LeBron in a conversation like this, I know they are glazing because how are you complete when you don't defend, can't shoot 3s nor FTs?
@@Saxandfifths Jokic is a good defender tho now
In the playoffs he was great
Draymond gives him credit on defense and Bam and Jimmy did too
Casuals think thay he can't defend only because he doesn't blocks a lot of shots but thag just a tiny part of defense
I disagree. He’s not well-rounded (because he’s merely an OK defensive player), but he’s so damn good at offense that his cumulative output is still superior to any well-rounded guy’s
Absolutely amazing. Thank you JJ for being the best analyst out there.
Suggesting Embiid is even sniffing the top 10 of all time is straight up madness. Agree with the rest of the video, though.
Jokic is already playing at a level that clearly puts him top 10 of all-time imo. Advanced stats place him top 3 with MJ and Lebron. He just needs more time and accolades to confirm it.
Yeah Embiid will be a footnote next Jokics time in 30 years
@OwenHooper-mv4fm footnote is maybe a bit harsh 😂 but I hear what you're saying.
I think people still don't quite understand what Jokic did last year. Absolute dominant (real MVP) season and then annihilated everyone in the playoffs. Only player to lead it in points, rebounds, assists. Swept Lebron and AD, dispatched KD and Booker. Easily dealt with Ant Edwards, Gobert, Towns, Butler etc. Insane. All while not having even one single All Star teammate. And finished with a 16-4 playoff record 🙌
I am so glad you went over advanced stats. People don’t get that when you’re making a new stat/measurement, you check it’s relevance by seeing if it’s results show the best players. PER wouldn’t mean crap if the all time leaders weren’t LeBron or Michael. Stats need to consistently show the best players so that we can see if we’re undervaluing non-stars.
No measurement would be valuable if they were inconsistent.
I love the take fixer uper segment!
What an awesome segment.
9:34 “He was *gifted* an MVP”. There, fixed it.
I came back to NBA after 20 years only because of Doncic, and stayed thanks to Jokic!
And now we got unique players like Wemby, Sengun, Antman, Chet, SGA and so on... it's going to be fun :)
Luka in my opinion...is already a legend, an mvp contender and possible champ this year.
I wish he was in the Nuggets to dominate Slav style.
@@markopecinovic4475 luka doesn't play well off ball though.
Well done JJ, your hot take fixer upper segment earned my subscription and like
I like this segment a lot. Cool idea, executed well.
he's an all time legend. should've been 3 MVPs by now. top 20 for me. in future. top 10. Giannis & Embid, would not make my 30 ever.
You obviously only care about offense 😂
Jokic should have won MVP last year but not the year before. Nuggets 11th best record in the league was worst of any MVP’s team since the 70’s. But he will win another one and he belongs in that 3X MVP category for sure 😊
Saying Giannis will never be top 30... thats a dumb mf thing to say
Based and I agree. Giannis has lost as the higher seed 4 of the last 5 years, that's actually crazy. The one ring coming off a season with no offseason, and half the league injured. Every other year he's lost as the favorite. Gets relatively zero criticism for this, any other superstar would be GRILLED for constantly losing as the favorite.
@@daddyfuse50 It's no secret that Giannis' playstyle is effective when teammates can open the floor for him. I'd love for you to research the shooting %'s of his teammates in series that the Bucks lost
He is an all time great. I’m 50 years old and he is actually the closest to Bird I’ve ever seen.
The renovations segment with the constructors outfit was 🔥🔥🔥
Love your work, JJ! You're a breath of fresh air in a toxic NBA environment! Subbed!
He’s the best player since 3-1 comeback Bron
I mean most have Dirk top 15-25 all time. What has Dirk done that Jokic already hasn’t?
Mavs fan here with Dirk being my favorite player ever. Jokic has already done way more than Dirk.
if Dirk is top 15. Nikola is already top 10.
It's just a matter of time. Dirk was a game changing player that evolved his position. As long as Nikola remains healthy, it's going to be tough to not put him in the top 10 when his career is over.
jokic wouldn't make it in dirk's era
@@kredentials. that's just an awful take
I couldn't agree more. Sharp analysis backed up with numbers.
Huge agree. We are witnessing a new golden era of NBA basketball
No bro Embiid will never ever be top 10 you need to switch that with Luka ASAP
Aint no Way Embiid Will finish with a record even close to a top 10 let alone top 15 player.
If he does finish his career how its going now i Can see him being a broderline top 25 player but he Will have to stay healthy.
Luka has a much better chance at getting a top 10 record.
Last year post season proved two things.
1 - jokic should have won the MVP. and he probably would have if it wasnt for what someone from ESPN said. You were there JJ you know.
2 - No way in hell does Joel finish as top 10 of all time.
“There. I fixed it.” 😂 Brilliant segment. That’s gonna be a legendary line in new media. Bravo. Keep it coming.
In my opinion Giannis and Jokic primes are better and more dominant than Steph
Geez. That’s quite the take. I’d cool it on that until Joekr wins some more rings. Stephanie prime has been unreal and lasted so damn long .
@@OwenHooper-mv4fmjokics peak has definitely been higher
Giannis has no bag never compare him to steph
Also people gotta realize that it's a player who people consider the goat that steph was competing against
Can we appriciate what Giannis is doing? Nobody is talking about him
I still believe Giannis over Jokic 🤘🏻
He repeatedly mentioned Giannis in the first segment as someone who could join the short list of players who won multiple MVPs, multiple titles, and a FMVP. Yes the segment was about Jokic but he made sure to remind people Giannis's accolades are also crazy (though he didn't mention the DPOY).
He needs to prove that he can win without injuring the opposing team’s star player
Love the fixxer upper section!! Lmao!
Jj with another banger
This man really had 11 mfs in his top 10 and no Hakeem, that's wild. Him, KG, Giannis, David Robinson (the 4 best defensive players ever, who all had great offensive skillsets as well) always get ranked far too low in the all time great conversations.
Who are you putting them over? You can't have 30 top 10 players
@@michaelahurt Hakeem's the only one I said was top 10. I'd have him over Wilt and Russell, who played in an era where basketball barely existed. I'd also have him over Kobe, and perhaps even others.
@@matthasahand5495bill russel has 11 rings beating wilt. I hear ya tho Hakeem dominated mj 5-1 😂
@@moneymoney3235 rings are a team accomplishments, players shouldn't be rewarded so much for those. It's also easier to win rings when there's like 8 teams in the league. It's the 2020s now, ain't no way anybody who never played with a 3 point line ever gonna be on my top 10.
@@matthasahand5495 Fr!
Jokic won a chip without any all star teammates
That is disingenous. Jamal Murray played at an all-NBA level in those playoffs. That's like saying LeBron won the 2016 title with no all star teammates when you know Kyrie balled out
@@briankipchirchir8282Man how many Allstar appearances do Jokics teammates have? That Cavs team had way bigger names on the roster
@@brasscross5476 But the Nuggets team outside of Jokic had great players like Murray, MPJ, Gordon, KCP, Bruce Brown etc..Don't make it seem like it was all Jokic
@briankipchirchir8282
1) Kyrie was 3 time ALL-STAR and 1 time ALL-NBA before 2016
2) Kevin Love was 3 time ALL-STAR and 2 time ALL-NBA before 2016
3) J.R. Smith was 6th Man of the Year 2 seasons before 2016
4) Everyone praises Lebron for carry job in 2016 and you compare it Jokic (and this is somehow counter argument to Jokic playing without too much star power?)
@@briankipchirchir8282great players but not allstars
JJ Agree with you 100%! Watching the game, what Joker does is amazing. The analytics verify what I see. And the ring argument needs to add context. I have a metric that estimates likelihood a player’s team could advance as far as they did without the player. Would love to share. I know this is a long shot, but you have the level-minded objectives was that i think would appreciate some of the research I’ve done
Love you man ❤❤❤ You're genius
This era is going to be known as the 'steroid era' of the NBA. Incredibly easy to score and to score efficiently in todays game. It's why Jokic, Doncic, and Giannis all said it is way easier to score in the NBA today than in the European leagues they came from. Not to mention the fact that the long-standing rules are largely not enforced today which enables higher scoring outputs and increased efficiency - offensive initiated fouls, changing of the pivot, illegal screening (um Golden State), and blatant carrying (Luka and Trey, looking at you). There is a reason why KD, Lebron, and Steph are statistically better now in their mid and late 30s than they were when they were at their physical peaks. So while the game is still fun and the competition is still great, to assert that the statistical excellence of this era places this era apart from what came before is a loaded claim. P.S. - watch Thinking Basketball's video on the changes in the game, it'll put things in better perspective for you, J.J.
"your horrible takes" 😂😂😂
Great segment fixing the takes!
Absolutely love the
“Take-Fixer Upper”
At only 28 hes already number 4 all time triple doubles. The guy is a megastar and without injury will go down as an all time great.
Yes Jokic!!!!! The Goat today!
Favorite player all time
Take fixer upper is one more reason to love JJ
Great show JJ
Does anyone else feel like he loves doing these podcasts and episodes more than he loved playing basketball… he just seems very happy all the time
I find a ton of Joy in watching this man Jokic play Bball. Its his era now IMO
JJ keepin it real
This episode is so fun 😂
Hi, JJ! Watching from the Philippines! 💙❤💛
I absolutely love watching jokic play. Him
And wemby are my top players to watch. But jokic is my #1. He is fundamentally sound. He’s too smooth
I like this format for the new JJ Redick show.
PREACH JJ!
This comedic vibe is great
Great video! Hate the sport betting part though
Thank u JJ
The "take fixer upper" segment was hilarious. 13/10