NOTE: at 2:48, "Speed" may not be the right word... I think a better word to fit that could be "Quickness". The torque of the wheel allows for quicker reactions and response to whats going on in the sim.
Still doesn't make sense. Torque is literally force multiplied by the lever length, which is the wheel radius in this case. There's no relation to quickness here. I think I can see what you mean though. In a belt drive system, there's a certain amount of softness and stretch in the transmission from the motor to the hands, which is not present in a direct drive system. This "muffles" the feedback force, softens its spikes, smoothes out changes in the amount of force. I guess "sharpness" would be a more appropriate word. But in that case, a transmission with hard gears should be just as sharp. I don't know though if there are any consumer hard gear wheels. Gears usually need lubrication, so I guess not.
Are you saying that for example the wheel when not being grabbed hard would respond to a oversteer (think drift cars) by steering itself into the slides direction at a much higher SPEED? Or does having more torque = the action/ response from your hand moving the wheel in real life _ to moving it in the sim/game is SHORTER? Like what you said is confusing because you're not stating what is being responded to in which direction of interaction(where there is many things being triggered here including us)
I am with Kakto. The torque doesn't means or have any relation with quickness. And I have to say that a belt drive systen is really really fast, at least my CSL Elite it is. So I still don't get the point to purchase a direct drive wheel. Plus, the people who has a direct drive wheel always are saying that they use between 40 to 60 % of the power of the wheel, very often they use even much less. Why to spend a lot of money and have so many problems with set ups and compatibilities with some games?
I'm a flight simmer recently looking into some car sim equipment and I thank you for explaining this high end equipment and helping me decide if it was right for my current/future goals.
Christopher Nixon there's a reason direct drive motors come with an e-stop button. The full drive force is directly interfaced with your arms and body. With a consumer belt or gear driven wheel, the belt should slip before the gears break and the gears should break before your arms do. There's nothing stopping you from getting hurt with direct drive FFB which is why you need to learn your limits and be prepared to engage the estop if things get out of hand.
You see the large yellow box with the red plunger on it? That's a pretty much industry standard emergency electrical disconnect. pressing it disengages it and it cannot be re-engaged without twisting it back out. www.heatcombustion.co.uk/img/products/2013%20products/KOB.jpg This is what I'm talking about. It's designed to be placed anywhere, preferably near the operator, but accessible to anybody who may be nearby. This way either the operator (if capable) or a bystander (if present) can intervene and press the button. You'll note it is in this video at 4:07. Some systems even implement multiple emergency disconnects, one near the operator and one outside the operating area of the equipment in question. Sometimes, in engineering spaces, there may be multiple emergency disconnects around the room or even throughout hallways all of which will de-energize ALL equipment in the room. This way anybody can intervene at any given moment. I will say I don't like that most of the direct drive rigs featured in operation in this video do NOT have this button prominently available (at least form what the camera shows) Again though, the more important safety measure is to learn your limits. Don't crank it up to 11, take baby steps until you find the sweet spot.
Exactly, anyone whos raced a car will know that these wheels are way over powered, containing far to much force. Steering wheel in reality isnt that hard to turn, and yes Ive driven a V8 Supercar. However the torque is required to transfer feel that you get from SOP that you get in reality.
An OSW with Simcube can be done at about 2x the cost of a CSW V2.5 set up. Question is, when/if your V2.5 with burn up or give up. Hopefully never, but my V2 is on its 2nd motor...fingers crossed.
Mine broke after 2 years and csv2 pedals after 1 year and a half ( never going back to Fanatec again ), and if you like good forces the motor tend to decrease in strenght if you use it for too long. Wish you luck. Now with a simucube small mige and boy this is a different ball game.
I went from a fanatec 911 gt3 v2 wheel to the OSW build. Bought the parts online and built the wheel over a weekend with instructions from the iracing forum. Let me put this into perspective how good this setup is!!! I feel that I will never have to buy another wheel in my entire life. Just think about that. Also the servo motor will probably never break. Most industry standard servos have a life cycle of 20,000 - 30,000 hours. This is also under heavy workloads.
You can still buy full kit that will get some time savings and some headeache if you're not familiar with electrical stuff and wiring for an affordable price. Check for Sim-pli.city or even simracingbay. Got it from sim-pli.city and couldn't be happier. This is probably the last wheel you will buy in your life. Had a fanatec csw, good stuff for the price but the reliability of Fanatec is horrible (broke after 2 years) and support...won't get into details. Better to pay a little more ( around 500$ if you have already a steering wheel ) to have something that won't break or will have an awesome feeling, more precise and stupidly stronger. And like Dark sector said, these motors are designed to work in harsh environment in industrial background so they can take lot of abuse. Cheers !
from an electrical and mechanical point of view, the presence or absence of a gearing system between the motor and the wheel makes absolutly no difference in the reponsiveness and force the wheel, if the gearing system has no play and low friction. the only thing that is different is that these direct drive wheels have more powerful motors. you could achive the same with a lower tourge motor and gearing system if the motor can deliver higher rpm faster and the inertia for ac- and decellerating is calculated into the system ( a motor with a bit more than 1 nm peak tourge and 20:1 gearing would deliver the same responsiveness as a directly connected 20nm motor). they are mostly just simpler so build as direct drive. the normal consumer systems just use low tourge motors because even low cost motors can spin very fast but not accerlerate to these rpms as quickly
gotta agree with you, the explanation is mostly about torque and speed, which are just the indirect consequences of wheel design around a direct drive mechanism. the main advantage of direct drive power transmission are reduced resistance (i.e. damping), reduced compliance (e.g. gear/belt deformation), and perhaps a bit less rotational mass. So if your FFB signal varies rapidly, information will be lost ("blurred" in a sense) more on a non-direct drive wheel. Powerful motor is just a consequence of not having gear to multiply the torque, hence to achieve certain level of torque it just has to use larger motor. Faster acceleration and rotational top speed is also an indirect consequence, due to more powerful motor, less damping, and less rotational inertia. So with more powerful motor alone you will get high rotational acceleration/speed and high torque, direct drive mechanism is not necessary.
@@albertweedsteinthethuggeni7797 in essence yes. Cheaper or lower end consumer wheels use cheaper, mass produced motors that cant deliver much torgue so they are conected via a gearbox. Which ads more rotational inertia. Also the faster it needs to spin the longer it takes to rev up (it takes more energy to accelerate somehting to double the speed than to spin up twice the mass) Direct dive motors are basically just a simpler method if you use powerful motors anyway. Also they dont have mechnical play which makes them feel more responsive
Could you explain the difference between the types of motors used? For instance does Accuforce wheel use a stepper motor? What does this mean in relation to sim racing, with pros and cons. Thanks
There is only two more things to do: first is to measure moment at the real wheel for analysis if it's possible and the second is to compare DD wheel movement with belt driven one (T500RS, for example).
The pros of a direct drive wheel is not nessecarly the fact that it is fast, but that the force is mostly linear from 0 to its max force. A direct drive wheel of 10 nm has roughly same responce as a wheel of 20 nm. So for example in iracing you experincing zero clipping unless the particualt vehicke ask for greater then max force of direct drive wheel. i know this because i built an ows and read forums for countless days.
Sergey Afanasev When I'm talking about about motor linearity I'm not talking about the actual motor curve. Instead I'm talking about the relationship between what the sim ask for and what the wheel responds with. Majority of sims ask for more torque then most consumer wheels output. Here is a good website www.edracing.com/edr/Wheel-Torque.php
Dark Sector Gaming As I know, T500rs and G29 uses basic DC collector motor, that has non linear moment curve, but DD wheels uses hybrid servo drive, that can generate controlled moment instantly, and that's best for gaming. Am I correct? PS I'm T500rs user and never played with DD wheel, but I'm engineer in microelectronics and I've worked with DC motors and frequency controlled three phase motors.
I don't want stronger but I can understand the smoothness. I have a G27 and have strength turned down 'cause I have a shoulder problem. In your video I see the screen still ahead of your hands on your wheel. I Would like quicker response and smoother movement but there is no way I can spent that much for a wheel. Any suggestions?
Gear drive is by far the "roughest" out of all the wheel technologies on the market. A solid middle ground would be the belt drive wheels that are available. The CSL Elite and T300RS are solid offerings, and you'd spend roughly $400 or so for a wheel/rim. If you didn't want to splurge for a new set of pedals, you could get a "Bodnar Cable" for around $30 or so. I also created a Wheel Buyers Guide, if you're interested in seeing the options available: simracingpaddock.com/pc-sim-wheel-buyers-guide/ Hope this helps!
"if you like to have more force feedback than a real car buy this" if you like to play video games for over 30 minutes get a cheaper one :'DDDDDDDDDDDD
The part I dont get is the price,if you cut all the gears and chains,reduce space so less material,why its more expensive ? Shouldnt the economic ones came with this direct drive to save even more and have more quality? Maybe Its better to just buy a mid tier one like the g29 and slap a motor to convert to direct drive an saving like 500€?
Yes, you can actually bolt anything to a good servo and it will work. So to answer your question - you can, but it would be pointless and you would save only on the actual steering wheel. This is engineering stuff - you need a servo, probably an asynchronous 3 phase motor, servo driver (controller), mains filter, and depending on the servo you would need 1 or 3 phase mains power. To that point it is very easy, now you have to create software to write parameters like torque, speed, position to servo driver internal programmable logic controller (PLC). This is not that complicated if you know what you are doing and also achievable in a matter of hours, maybe days. The hard part is to send proper data from the actual game to your program (at least in my opinion, maybe because I'm familiar with industrial drives and not with driving simulators programming). And let me warn you - industrial servomotors and controllers are quite expensive and most of the time not plug and play.
S_Frost S_Frost the simple answer is, the limited parts that there actually are, are quite pricey. for example, the Mige servo motor, that is commonly used in the Open Sim Wheel, is around $400-$500 for the lower powered version. The Kollmorgan AKM series motor used in the SimSteering is even more. Then you have to factor in the electronics required to power the motor, which can be a few hundred in itself
A few thoughts. The servo motor most likely has gearing inside it, servo's typically have a highspeed low torque motor which is down geared orders of magnitude to give small rotation with high torque. I wouldn't be surprised if it used belts inside it. Secondly, with the exception of some formula cars and karts with no power steering sim racing set ups usually have way too much force. Compared to a modern normal road car this is to the extreme. I drive a GT86 in real life and to emulate the steering weight and feedback in PCars I had to dial the FF way back.
No belts inside, that's why they can be so precise and more raw feedback...but like you said, consumer wheels with belts can emulate realistic forces unlike the DD wheels that you have to dial alot of settings like damper, friction and inertia to give it a more natural feeling.
Paul C Well, don't forget that people also love to race old cars in sims. To accurately simulate forces in something like a Group C you simply need a powerful direct drive. And pretty much all race cars and formulas up to 90s didn't have power steering.
1- DD wheel, use brushless motors, there's no belt no gear , and no mechanical part between the stator and the rotor. 2- The most important improvement from DD wheel is not the torque but the very low inertia because there is not belt or gear, means the steering wheel will react faster, with very low latency with the simulation, which prevent oscillations on straight for example. DD wheel also have linear force response compare to COM wheel ( excluding Fanatec wheels ) 3 - Race cars have torque at steering wheel between 6Nm to 25Nm , so If you want to be able to simulate all kinds of racing cars, you need a wheel capable of high torques.Usually the simulation will handle correctly the torque for you, if a car have low torque feedback in the steering shaft, then the game will output lower torque to the wheel. in some simulations ( I think rfactor2 and iRacing ), you can even enter the max constant torque of your steering wheel, and the simulation will send the correct ouput thought direct input to have a 1:1 match.
You are putting this wrong at 2:37, torque actually is a definition for strength. "That force (torque) is relative to the speed of the wheel" - nope, it's power that you are talking about. Power is torque multiplied by Revolutions per minute (what you are mentioning as the speed of the wheel). From what I can see from your description, these wheels comparisons are like two engines: diesel vs gasoline with the same amount of torque, where the gasoline has more HP (=speed) because of revving much higher. So both of them have the same torque but one is faster.
Wouldn't another pro of a direct drive be no wheel chatter? Im just assuming, since there are no gears to make chattering noises. I have no experience in sim racing yet. My birthday is June 11th and I'm getting my first wheel then.
I see so many videos that talk about the linearity, the quickness, the latency of a belt or lack of fidelity. Does anyone know of a video where they measure the "quickness" of high end belt drive wheel bases? If it's "output lag" from the time the motor turns to the time you feel the forces in the wheel rim I would think that would be instant on a belt or gear rim as well since the moment the motor turns the connected belt or gears would also be turning. I wish I knew someone close to me with a DD wheel as I would love to see what the hype is about. I have a Thrustmaster T-GT now and it's great I don't run it with maxed out FFB so it has plenty enough torque for me. If anyone can link a video where they actually measure the FFB latency from belt driven wheels please link if for me.
Great video man, you've done a good job of breaking everything down for those who may not know exactly what direct drive is all about. I absolutely love my SimuCUBE direct drive wheel, although I still love my CSW bases as well. I can't wait to see what Fanatec brings to the table in terms of a Direct Drive wheel!
Just a small point at least with the osw systems they are not ffb motors they are just motors. They were never designed for ffb application but industrial and cnc applications
Paul Thomas the Leo bonder wheel system is also a servo motor. Because it is used in industry and cnc applications doesn't mean anything other then stating the obvious. nothing to do with any of this stuff. Professional direct drive wheels are all servo based.
Paul Thomas I'm not you understand how things work. What in your mind constitutes it being labeled a Force feedback motor? All of these systems use motors you can buy off the shelf somewhere out there in the ether. What makes them force feedback is the development that is put into them. All motors in force feedback systems are all just types of electric motors. A motor is a motor.
Can I ask why in the world you would want something so strong? Most cars have power steering and don’t even come close to generating that amount of torque in the wheel, do they?
Jeffrey White You are correct ... as long as you're talking about modern cars with power steering. However, you can drive old cars in sims - and those things can require full force of a direct drive wheel (if you're going for max realism). There are other benefits too, force is just one of them. Direct drive wheels have more precise force feedback and those motors have linear torque curves.
Yes, Fanatec has released two DD wheelbases last year which are compatible with almost their complete ecosystem. The premium model is www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-bases/podium-wheel-base-dd2-usa.html. So if you are ok with sticking to one manufacturer, you get a hassle-free solution with a reasonable price tag compared even to self-built setups (which are cheaper by default).
It still doesn't make sense to me, because in reality cars have a different feeling in the feedback, depending of soft driving Servo Mercedes, or a hard quick driving Go-Kart. Is the Direct Wheel capable of being both soft and sharp? And if the Sims simulated the real Steering wheels, why do they allow you to change the forces, without telling what the real settings are ?
Yeah, i have got so fed up with simulators and what they require that i realized how much i missed my roots in driving games. Arcade and simcade, just PLAIN FUN driving games like when i was growing up in the 90's and well up until mid 2000's when simulation in gaming started getting better. I think all these things hype people up to buy these things with promise of realism and people fall for it. So my rF2 is shelved and out are DriveClub, few Burnout games, GridAutosport, straight into it and straight fun instead of messing around with setups and driving practice laps for countless hours just to race a league race once a week and it will never be as a real thing no matter what. Not leaving sim games for good, just tired of them, its like boot up rF2 for like 2 hours once a month type a thing haha
Yeah, you can but it turns out to be more expensive. And to play sim racing you don't really need to spend that much. A good wheel with a stand for around 300 to 400 bucks and you're all set
I like the info on the video except that it doesn’t cost $4000 for a direct drive setup. Maybe $2000 but $4 Grand? Maybe your referring to more expensive brands other than Fanetic, Thrustmaster. But thanks for the info!!
That $4,000 figure I mentioned (4:30) in the video was SPECIFICALLY regarding to one brand of wheel, the SimSteering 2. Currently the best price is from www.pro-sim.co.uk, and the price for the unit with no rim is ￡2,350 (or around $3,165 USD). The SimSteering2 54 is ￡2,666 (or roughly $3,600). That's before taking: A. Shipping & Customs B. Adding a Rim/Mounting Bracket Hopefully this adds some input!
I have a t300rs etc and with ffb turned up it could snap your shit off it's that strong. If this is stronger than that it's not for me. I heard they were more subtle but realistic. I mean you think about it you don't get that much power back from a real car
No wonder why they give you an emergency button to cancel all forces because you crash and it starts to wobble in every direction, you can literally break your arms ! No kidding.
The strength isn't the best part, most people turn aren't using the full power of these wheels, the speed of the wheel is much better and it provides more detailed feedback, that is what really makes a direct drive wheel so much better.
That is super expensive. I'm just wondering how would my kids manage to drive something like that if it has so much force or maybe a better question would be "how can I keep them away from such an expensive wheel?" - I think I will stay with the Logitec G920 for now. Everyone in the family can use it and I won't cry if it breaks :-(
It's not a rocket. Your kid wouldn't break his arms trying to use it. Also all these high end wheels can be adjusted. If you really were worried you could turn it down.
good video, but i don't think you understand the relationship between torque, angular speed, and power. a low torque wheel can cope with a given angular speed as long as it can supply enough power. this doesn't tend to happen with standard wheels because so much power is being sapped by the belts and gears when everything starts moving vigorously. (and if power drops, torque drops below what the electronics are requesting. P=tw) Also, the (modestly priced) motor is high speed & low torque, meaning it has to really travel to do its job ... and since it's probably not optimised for those rare furious jerks when you get into trouble, the motor is probably struggling at those revs. this is roughly analogous to your perfectly fine voltage sagging when your electronic whatever suddenly needs to draw more current. another way of putting it is that your low torque wheel becomes an even-lower-torque wheel if it isn't designed to cope with speed. direct drive by and large is brilliant at coping with speed. so put me down as one of those people who are quite sure a direct drive wheel doesn't need the torque to wrench your shoulder out of its socket. all the information can still be there, but at a "lower volume", so to speak. fwiw i cut my sim teeth on Atari's marvelous "Race Drivin'", which i believe had a 70 volt direct drive motor; and which (a) ruined commercial wheels for me [i used a $40 non-FF wheel for years, and when i moved to FF my times just got worse and it never felt right] and (b) hurt my shoulder because i drove with one hand on the stick, which took maybe two or three years to heal. i suspect if anybody could find a scrap cabinet the wheel would be good for re-purposing with some new electronics
@@trigger8152 Absolutely not. Just think about car gearboxes. The first gear will have a lot of torque and low RPM. The fifth gear has a lot of RPM but low torque, all of that when run by the same engine. Adjusting the example to this particular case, if the torque that the fifth gear produces is enough for the sim, it would be much better to "have a wheel on fifth gear" then on first gear cause it would react much better to the sim, even though it has way less torque. Long story short: you don't need the wheel to have more torque then the sim asks for. Take the rest of the torque and turn it into speed and you're much better equipped.
I've driven with a old wingman formula force gp, without any ffb, I was still able to catch slides, to correct mistakes, to steer the car verry precise. I don't see the need for anything like this, it just seems to me like it is a verry expensive gimmick.
I love good FFB don't get me wrong, but I just wanted to state that you don't need the creme de la creme of FFB to drive a good lap or to race properly. This still seems like a verry expensive gimmick, a logitech or thrustmaster racing wheel will do just fine imo.
It just doesn't make sense to buy it when you don't own a professional racing team imo... If you do, ofcourse you will do everything to improve things by only a bit, that much is logical. Not so much if you don't own one, or it isn't your job... But your opinion may varry ofcourse.
I've tried a lot of sim wheels except ones that real racing teams use and it does feel kind of real but it's nothing compared to the real deal. But it works well for learning new courses and testing things that could help IRL.
you said the ffb of a DD Wheel is maybe less smooth... that is not correct... the ffb is very smooth... you do feel all the details from the mini kinds of textures from the road to heavy bumps that feel like someone is punching your wrist/arm/shoulder... (with quite high force) ... but the ffb doesn't become less smooth because of the fastness /quickness... it's all very smooth.. at least with the common industrial servo motors used in the OSWs and bodnar systems... it is faster, stronger, more sensitive to mini forces but at the same time it is also smoother.... ofcourse you need to filter the signals a little bit.. otherwise it makes a noise from hell and is not smooth :) but that's usual with motors
William, no.1, DD wheels are consumer units, anyone can buy one so why do you say "compared to consumer wheels" ? no.2 a ghetto blaster is a slang term for a portable stereo, what you actually mean is ghetto rig, not ghetto 'blaster' rig.
kitten11977 1. "Consumer" isn't a term used in regards to who CAN buy it, but it is a term in regards to who the product is MARKETED towards. A Thrustmaster, Fanatec, Logitech, etc wheel is being MARKETED towards consumers. The Simsteering2 is marketed as a PROFESSIONAL product. If you go to the Simsteering website, you will see that it is being marketed as a training tool for professionals, or used for corporate events, etc. I would classify Open Sim Wheels and the Accuforce as "Prosumer Products", bridging the Gap between a consumer and professional option. You can buy any of the products, true, but that isn't what determines what is classified as a "Consumer Product". 2. I know what a Ghetto Blaster is, that's why I thought it would be a funny name for my cockpit ;)
Easiest answer, is the parts themselves are expensive! For example, to build your own Open Sim Wheel, you need the motor, the SimuCube chip/software, and the "pc components". The MiGE Motor (most common OSW choice) is usually around $250-$300. Then you need the SimuCUBE motherboard, IONI motor drive, and a power supply. If you buy the ready-to-go motor from SimRacingBay, and build your own SimuCUBE component box, you're looking at €877 in parts alone, before putting anything together! You can get a lower price by getting the motor through a different retailer, like AliExpress, but then you have to deal with the logistics of buying from that marketplace. I've seen them for about €230 online (I think), so that's only about €70 savings, so you'd still be spending around €800 in parts. That being considered, those people selling OSW packages are actually giving us a solid deal!
direct drive does not make it more powerful in itself, there is a huge difference in quality between these wheels and the more "hobby" ones. A elektronik servo for cars is not direct drive and they dont seem to have a problem with low torque or low precision, the same goes for Segways, if you manage to hold on to the wheel of one it will send you flying.
boa noite falar serio portugues como falar motor volunte f1 procura compra sim ou nao ? Alta qualidade 90ST-M02430 AC Servo Motor 750 W 2.4N.M 24kgf. Cm 3000 rpm AC Servo Motor e motorista com cabo minha ajudar resp? Ler mais
NOTE: at 2:48, "Speed" may not be the right word... I think a better word to fit that could be "Quickness". The torque of the wheel allows for quicker reactions and response to whats going on in the sim.
Nice review good job!
Still doesn't make sense. Torque is literally force multiplied by the lever length, which is the wheel radius in this case. There's no relation to quickness here.
I think I can see what you mean though. In a belt drive system, there's a certain amount of softness and stretch in the transmission from the motor to the hands, which is not present in a direct drive system. This "muffles" the feedback force, softens its spikes, smoothes out changes in the amount of force. I guess "sharpness" would be a more appropriate word.
But in that case, a transmission with hard gears should be just as sharp. I don't know though if there are any consumer hard gear wheels. Gears usually need lubrication, so I guess not.
great job ive been waiting for thse types of vids for ever. keep it up thx
Are you saying that for example the wheel when not being grabbed hard would respond to a oversteer (think drift cars) by steering itself into the slides direction at a much higher SPEED? Or does having more torque = the action/ response from your hand moving the wheel in real life _ to moving it in the sim/game is SHORTER?
Like what you said is confusing because you're not stating what is being responded to in which direction of interaction(where there is many things being triggered here including us)
I am with Kakto. The torque doesn't means or have any relation with quickness. And I have to say that a belt drive systen is really really fast, at least my CSL Elite it is. So I still don't get the point to purchase a direct drive wheel. Plus, the people who has a direct drive wheel always are saying that they use between 40 to 60 % of the power of the wheel, very often they use even much less.
Why to spend a lot of money and have so many problems with set ups and compatibilities with some games?
wat happens when u hit the wall in an open wheeled racecar at high speeds ?
does it snap your wrists ? (would be super realistic)
What happens if I use it in Need For Speed and drive with my modded Diablo SV with 800 kph into an 100 kph oncoming traffic car?
If you die in NFS you die IRL
A G25 is not a direct drive wheel xD
some direct drive wheels set to 100% ffb can gunuienly hurt you really bad
edit: sorry for my bad englisch
More about literally breaking an arm, there's videos on YT with ppl using full forces on these wheels.
I'm a flight simmer recently looking into some car sim equipment and I thank you for explaining this high end equipment and helping me decide if it was right for my current/future goals.
Car sims are really great, I had much more fun in those than in flight sims. It's definitely worth diving into it.
Your use of "the immense force," makes me think my arms will be broken lol
Christopher Nixon there's a reason direct drive motors come with an e-stop button. The full drive force is directly interfaced with your arms and body. With a consumer belt or gear driven wheel, the belt should slip before the gears break and the gears should break before your arms do. There's nothing stopping you from getting hurt with direct drive FFB which is why you need to learn your limits and be prepared to engage the estop if things get out of hand.
Where is this e stop button placed? Because if it's on the spinning wheel...
You see the large yellow box with the red plunger on it? That's a pretty much industry standard emergency electrical disconnect. pressing it disengages it and it cannot be re-engaged without twisting it back out. www.heatcombustion.co.uk/img/products/2013%20products/KOB.jpg This is what I'm talking about. It's designed to be placed anywhere, preferably near the operator, but accessible to anybody who may be nearby. This way either the operator (if capable) or a bystander (if present) can intervene and press the button. You'll note it is in this video at 4:07. Some systems even implement multiple emergency disconnects, one near the operator and one outside the operating area of the equipment in question. Sometimes, in engineering spaces, there may be multiple emergency disconnects around the room or even throughout hallways all of which will de-energize ALL equipment in the room. This way anybody can intervene at any given moment.
I will say I don't like that most of the direct drive rigs featured in operation in this video do NOT have this button prominently available (at least form what the camera shows) Again though, the more important safety measure is to learn your limits. Don't crank it up to 11, take baby steps until you find the sweet spot.
ZeroX252 I can't make it to work because I got injured playing video games. ☺️
Exactly, anyone whos raced a car will know that these wheels are way over powered, containing far to much force. Steering wheel in reality isnt that hard to turn, and yes Ive driven a V8 Supercar. However the torque is required to transfer feel that you get from SOP that you get in reality.
It is 2022 and I do get it in my recommendations. Where you at recommendation squad? Rest in peace
As I was watching this video, I was thinking to my self "Why did I buy a Fanatec?" Then he got to the prices and I realized how much I love my V2.5!
An OSW with Simcube can be done at about 2x the cost of a CSW V2.5 set up. Question is, when/if your V2.5 with burn up or give up. Hopefully never, but my V2 is on its 2nd motor...fingers crossed.
Mine broke after 2 years and csv2 pedals after 1 year and a half ( never going back to Fanatec again ), and if you like good forces the motor tend to decrease in strenght if you use it for too long. Wish you luck. Now with a simucube small mige and boy this is a different ball game.
Sebastien Houde sim cube bro can you put a quick release and use any wheel
@@sebastienhoude3739 does the simucube still work well?
@@MrFrosty888 yes i have qr1 quick release and use it for fanatec or any momo sparco, etc.
I went from a fanatec 911 gt3 v2 wheel to the OSW build. Bought the parts online and built the wheel over a weekend with instructions from the iracing forum. Let me put this into perspective how good this setup is!!! I feel that I will never have to buy another wheel in my entire life. Just think about that. Also the servo motor will probably never break. Most industry standard servos have a life cycle of 20,000 - 30,000 hours. This is also under heavy workloads.
Dark Sector Gaming thanks for the input :)
Links Dude, links!
Can you help me locate your build online. I'm just getting into this stuff and i'm ignorant. I'm interested in how it was done..?
You can still buy full kit that will get some time savings and some headeache if you're not familiar with electrical stuff and wiring for an affordable price. Check for Sim-pli.city or even simracingbay. Got it from sim-pli.city and couldn't be happier. This is probably the last wheel you will buy in your life. Had a fanatec csw, good stuff for the price but the reliability of Fanatec is horrible (broke after 2 years) and support...won't get into details. Better to pay a little more ( around 500$ if you have already a steering wheel ) to have something that won't break or will have an awesome feeling, more precise and stupidly stronger. And like Dark sector said, these motors are designed to work in harsh environment in industrial background so they can take lot of abuse. Cheers !
I wanted to know more about direct drive *motor*, but your vid helped me a lot. Verey interasting and simple. thanks !
from an electrical and mechanical point of view, the presence or absence of a gearing system between the motor and the wheel makes absolutly no difference in the reponsiveness and force the wheel, if the gearing system has no play and low friction. the only thing that is different is that these direct drive wheels have more powerful motors. you could achive the same with a lower tourge motor and gearing system if the motor can deliver higher rpm faster and the inertia for ac- and decellerating is calculated into the system ( a motor with a bit more than 1 nm peak tourge and 20:1 gearing would deliver the same responsiveness as a directly connected 20nm motor). they are mostly just simpler so build as direct drive.
the normal consumer systems just use low tourge motors because even low cost motors can spin very fast but not accerlerate to these rpms as quickly
gotta agree with you, the explanation is mostly about torque and speed, which are just the indirect consequences of wheel design around a direct drive mechanism. the main advantage of direct drive power transmission are reduced resistance (i.e. damping), reduced compliance (e.g. gear/belt deformation), and perhaps a bit less rotational mass. So if your FFB signal varies rapidly, information will be lost ("blurred" in a sense) more on a non-direct drive wheel. Powerful motor is just a consequence of not having gear to multiply the torque, hence to achieve certain level of torque it just has to use larger motor. Faster acceleration and rotational top speed is also an indirect consequence, due to more powerful motor, less damping, and less rotational inertia. So with more powerful motor alone you will get high rotational acceleration/speed and high torque, direct drive mechanism is not necessary.
What makes a direct drive wheel base expensive? Is it just the more powerful motor?
@@albertweedsteinthethuggeni7797 in essence yes. Cheaper or lower end consumer wheels use cheaper, mass produced motors that cant deliver much torgue so they are conected via a gearbox. Which ads more rotational inertia. Also the faster it needs to spin the longer it takes to rev up (it takes more energy to accelerate somehting to double the speed than to spin up twice the mass)
Direct dive motors are basically just a simpler method if you use powerful motors anyway. Also they dont have mechnical play which makes them feel more responsive
00:47 possibly less smooth? Its an electric motor. It can be as smooth as you adjust it to be, or as notchy. It's about the settings.
The CSWv2 generates way more force than I can handle. I think the main difference is in fidelity, achieved by the lack in gears/belt-drive.
3:04 I wish I could have a setup like that for BeamNG Drive! Crashes would look and feel soo real!
Undoubtedly an awesome wheel, but my T500RS nearly tears my arms off sometimes so this is out of the question even if I could afford it...
SmokinJoe347 get in the gym buddy :D
I don't think it's so much about the strength of the force, but the linearity. Also, they're at the higher end and should be better built.
It's a health issue, I really wish it was as simple as just "going to the gym" :D
In a diy direct drive with a stepper do you need an encoder or will the stepper feedback to the controller electronics what its position is?
Hi, does a direct drive wheel get rid of the loose play in the center that most wheels have.
I'm fine with my Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer. It's strong enough for me. Anything more seems like overkill. But to each thier own.
How is realism overkill? Direct drive is realistic, anything less isn't.
@@MIGAS32000 This is super old comment. Because I've gone overkill. I have a Fanatec DD2, Transducers, wind, motion platform, triple screens etc.
Could you explain the difference between the types of motors used? For instance does Accuforce wheel use a stepper motor? What does this mean in relation to sim racing, with pros and cons. Thanks
2:46 what game is that? i just recently got a good steering wheel so im looking into racing games i didnt know there were vr racing games.
There is only two more things to do: first is to measure moment at the real wheel for analysis if it's possible and the second is to compare DD wheel movement with belt driven one (T500RS, for example).
The pros of a direct drive wheel is not nessecarly the fact that it is fast, but that the force is mostly linear from 0 to its max force. A direct drive wheel of 10 nm has roughly same responce as a wheel of 20 nm. So for example in iracing you experincing zero clipping unless the particualt vehicke ask for greater then max force of direct drive wheel. i know this because i built an ows and read forums for countless days.
Dark Sector Gaming Are you talking about differences between hybrid servo motors at DD and collector motors at non-DD wheels?
Sergey Afanasev When I'm talking about about motor linearity I'm not talking about the actual motor curve. Instead I'm talking about the relationship between what the sim ask for and what the wheel responds with. Majority of sims ask for more torque then most consumer wheels output.
Here is a good website www.edracing.com/edr/Wheel-Torque.php
Are using asking if I'm comparing between servo motors and motors that are in t500 or g29?
Dark Sector Gaming As I know, T500rs and G29 uses basic DC collector motor, that has non linear moment curve, but DD wheels uses hybrid servo drive, that can generate controlled moment instantly, and that's best for gaming. Am I correct?
PS I'm T500rs user and never played with DD wheel, but I'm engineer in microelectronics and I've worked with DC motors and frequency controlled three phase motors.
Dark Sector Gaming Seems like you know, how game works with FFB wheel. Could you explain this theme? Or give a link, please.
Is there a list of Direct Drive FFB Wheel System Manufacturers and can you build it your self in a cheaper way ?
What motion playform are you using?
Can I build using a different servo driver? All tutorials I found use the argon driver.
Where buy cockpit for the direct drive ? Which brand ?
I don't want stronger but I can understand the smoothness. I have a G27 and have strength turned down 'cause I have a shoulder problem. In your video I see the screen still ahead of your hands on your wheel. I Would like quicker response and smoother movement but there is no way I can spent that much for a wheel. Any suggestions?
Gear drive is by far the "roughest" out of all the wheel technologies on the market. A solid middle ground would be the belt drive wheels that are available. The CSL Elite and T300RS are solid offerings, and you'd spend roughly $400 or so for a wheel/rim. If you didn't want to splurge for a new set of pedals, you could get a "Bodnar Cable" for around $30 or so.
I also created a Wheel Buyers Guide, if you're interested in seeing the options available: simracingpaddock.com/pc-sim-wheel-buyers-guide/
Hope this helps!
it feels "grainy"
"if you like to have more force feedback than a real car buy this" if you like to play video games for over 30 minutes get a cheaper one :'DDDDDDDDDDDD
The part I dont get is the price,if you cut all the gears and chains,reduce space so less material,why its more expensive ? Shouldnt the economic ones came with this direct drive to save even more and have more quality?
Maybe Its better to just buy a mid tier one like the g29 and slap a motor to convert to direct drive an saving like 500€?
Is it possible to modify a consumer level wheel to make it like a direct drive wheel?
Yes, you can actually bolt anything to a good servo and it will work.
So to answer your question - you can, but it would be pointless and you would save only on the actual steering wheel.
This is engineering stuff - you need a servo, probably an asynchronous 3 phase motor, servo driver (controller), mains filter, and depending on the servo you would need 1 or 3 phase mains power. To that point it is very easy, now you have to create software to write parameters like torque, speed, position to servo driver internal programmable logic controller (PLC). This is not that complicated if you know what you are doing and also achievable in a matter of hours, maybe days. The hard part is to send proper data from the actual game to your program (at least in my opinion, maybe because I'm familiar with industrial drives and not with driving simulators programming).
And let me warn you - industrial servomotors and controllers are quite expensive and most of the time not plug and play.
So that is why my Thrustmaster TX wheel has a slightly feel of input lag in Project CARS 2?
Benjamin Karslund Input lag is more due to software than anything else (signal processing, drivers ...).
Could also be your tv/monitor.
Quick question, why are direct drive wheels so much more expensive than consumer grade wheels considering they seem to require less parts?
S_Frost S_Frost the simple answer is, the limited parts that there actually are, are quite pricey. for example, the Mige servo motor, that is commonly used in the Open Sim Wheel, is around $400-$500 for the lower powered version.
The Kollmorgan AKM series motor used in the SimSteering is even more.
Then you have to factor in the electronics required to power the motor, which can be a few hundred in itself
A few thoughts. The servo motor most likely has gearing inside it, servo's typically have a highspeed low torque motor which is down geared orders of magnitude to give small rotation with high torque. I wouldn't be surprised if it used belts inside it. Secondly, with the exception of some formula cars and karts with no power steering sim racing set ups usually have way too much force. Compared to a modern normal road car this is to the extreme. I drive a GT86 in real life and to emulate the steering weight and feedback in PCars I had to dial the FF way back.
No belts inside, that's why they can be so precise and more raw feedback...but like you said, consumer wheels with belts can emulate realistic forces unlike the DD wheels that you have to dial alot of settings like damper, friction and inertia to give it a more natural feeling.
Paul C Well, don't forget that people also love to race old cars in sims. To accurately simulate forces in something like a Group C you simply need a powerful direct drive. And pretty much all race cars and formulas up to 90s didn't have power steering.
1- DD wheel, use brushless motors, there's no belt no gear , and no mechanical part between the stator and the rotor.
2- The most important improvement from DD wheel is not the torque but the very low inertia because there is not belt or gear, means the steering wheel will react faster, with very low latency with the simulation, which prevent oscillations on straight for example. DD wheel also have linear force response compare to COM wheel ( excluding Fanatec wheels )
3 - Race cars have torque at steering wheel between 6Nm to 25Nm , so If you want to be able to simulate all kinds of racing cars, you need a wheel capable of high torques.Usually the simulation will handle correctly the torque for you, if a car have low torque feedback in the steering shaft, then the game will output lower torque to the wheel. in some simulations ( I think rfactor2 and iRacing ), you can even enter the max constant torque of your steering wheel, and the simulation will send the correct ouput thought direct input to have a 1:1 match.
You are putting this wrong at 2:37, torque actually is a definition for strength.
"That force (torque) is relative to the speed of the wheel" - nope, it's power that you are talking about. Power is torque multiplied by Revolutions per minute (what you are mentioning as the speed of the wheel).
From what I can see from your description, these wheels comparisons are like two engines: diesel vs gasoline with the same amount of torque, where the gasoline has more HP (=speed) because of revving much higher. So both of them have the same torque but one is faster.
Wouldn't another pro of a direct drive be no wheel chatter? Im just assuming, since there are no gears to make chattering noises. I have no experience in sim racing yet. My birthday is June 11th and I'm getting my first wheel then.
if you buy a belt driven wheel, you wont get that chatter noise.
Snowjix i know. my thrustmaster t150 is belt and gear mix and has no chatter
nascarsimracing1 - Fantastic!!!!
do you turn your wheel to the right, btw? just asking.
Snowjix what do you mean by if i turn my wheel to the right? either direction and there is no wheel chatter.
"Nascarsimracing"
I see so many videos that talk about the linearity, the quickness, the latency of a belt or lack of fidelity. Does anyone know of a video where they measure the "quickness" of high end belt drive wheel bases? If it's "output lag" from the time the motor turns to the time you feel the forces in the wheel rim I would think that would be instant on a belt or gear rim as well since the moment the motor turns the connected belt or gears would also be turning. I wish I knew someone close to me with a DD wheel as I would love to see what the hype is about. I have a Thrustmaster T-GT now and it's great I don't run it with maxed out FFB so it has plenty enough torque for me. If anyone can link a video where they actually measure the FFB latency from belt driven wheels please link if for me.
Great video man, you've done a good job of breaking everything down for those who may not know exactly what direct drive is all about. I absolutely love my SimuCUBE direct drive wheel, although I still love my CSW bases as well. I can't wait to see what Fanatec brings to the table in terms of a Direct Drive wheel!
Seth Francis Sim Racing thanks! I may have a chance to be able to get my hands on an OSW to review in the coming months, so I'm super stoked for that!
That will be awesome, I hope you get it as I'd like to hear your thoughts after some extended use.
@@Simracingpaddock can you get a wheel without a pc on quest
Just a small point at least with the osw systems they are not ffb motors they are just motors. They were never designed for ffb application but industrial and cnc applications
Paul Thomas the Leo bonder wheel system is also a servo motor. Because it is used in industry and cnc applications doesn't mean anything other then stating the obvious. nothing to do with any of this stuff. Professional direct drive wheels are all servo based.
Yes but they are not ffb motors
Paul Thomas I'm not you understand how things work. What in your mind constitutes it being labeled a Force feedback motor? All of these systems use motors you can buy off the shelf somewhere out there in the ether. What makes them force feedback is the development that is put into them. All motors in force feedback systems are all just types of electric motors. A motor is a motor.
Can I ask why in the world you would want something so strong? Most cars have power steering and don’t even come close to generating that amount of torque in the wheel, do they?
Jeffrey White You are correct ... as long as you're talking about modern cars with power steering. However, you can drive old cars in sims - and those things can require full force of a direct drive wheel (if you're going for max realism).
There are other benefits too, force is just one of them. Direct drive wheels have more precise force feedback and those motors have linear torque curves.
Are direct drives for computers only ? Would it work on the One X conssole
Pc only
Erik Heijden
Thanks for reply
The new Fanatec direct drive wheel will most likely get console support.
How come servos are so much more expensive when bought by itself instead of buying it with from a DD company?
Dude! You used the picture of the T150's gear setup! That is the wheel I'm getting for my birthday!
Yeah! Same!
I am on a g29 n had g25 I think I will be happy with fanatec v2.5 wheel straight up.
Is there a direct drive wheel and pedals that is plug and play?
Yes, Fanatec has released two DD wheelbases last year which are compatible with almost their complete ecosystem. The premium model is www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-bases/podium-wheel-base-dd2-usa.html. So if you are ok with sticking to one manufacturer, you get a hassle-free solution with a reasonable price tag compared even to self-built setups (which are cheaper by default).
It still doesn't make sense to me, because in reality cars have a different feeling in the feedback, depending of soft driving Servo Mercedes, or a hard quick driving Go-Kart.
Is the Direct Wheel capable of being both soft and sharp?
And if the Sims simulated the real Steering wheels, why do they allow you to change the forces, without telling what the real settings are ?
I want to build an OSW for $900, where can I get the parts for this amount?
Thanks!
Ryan Chenoweth good starting point is the iracing forums under hardware.
Dark Sector Gaming I don't have access, is there anywhere else?
Can the small mige be purchased from Asia?
Ryan Chenoweth You can purchase the motor for about 225 from alibaba I believe
And then it's just the Simucube stuff from their website?
Is that the cheapest to get that from their website direct?
You might possible be able to find it somewhere in the states. But I believe that is probably the cheapest.
3.5nm stepper motor or a 1.9nm motor which more stronger
my first wheel will be direct drive, i'm going all out !
LangCaster same here buddy. What did you end up getting?
Damn yall rich af
you can practically go out and rally for real for what it cost for one of these setups, sheesh
But not every day!!
Homber Sweatson depends on where you live lol
Yeah, i have got so fed up with simulators and what they require that i realized how much i missed my roots in driving games. Arcade and simcade, just PLAIN FUN driving games like when i was growing up in the 90's and well up until mid 2000's when simulation in gaming started getting better.
I think all these things hype people up to buy these things with promise of realism and people fall for it.
So my rF2 is shelved and out are DriveClub, few Burnout games, GridAutosport, straight into it and straight fun instead of messing around with setups and driving practice laps for countless hours just to race a league race once a week and it will never be as a real thing no matter what. Not leaving sim games for good, just tired of them, its like boot up rF2 for like 2 hours once a month type a thing haha
1389 Gaming Amen . I bought my self a first gen RX-7 to fùck around in . 2500$ well spent . A wheel + pc cost like 1000$
Yeah, you can but it turns out to be more expensive. And to play sim racing you don't really need to spend that much. A good wheel with a stand for around 300 to 400 bucks and you're all set
What is the wheel at 1:09 ??
+Sammie van de Seijp that is the Simsteering2 wheel, with a Precision Sim Engineering GT3 Rim
Was hoping this would actually show the motor and how it works
Crazy how 7 years later DD is the norm
He’s like my first grade teacher reading a story book. Awww miss but what happens next. Tomorrow billy, tomorrow.
no input lag?
But what happens if I use it for Need For Speed? :D
I like the info on the video except that it doesn’t cost $4000 for a direct drive setup. Maybe $2000 but $4 Grand? Maybe your referring to more expensive brands other than Fanetic, Thrustmaster. But thanks for the info!!
That $4,000 figure I mentioned (4:30) in the video was SPECIFICALLY regarding to one brand of wheel, the SimSteering 2. Currently the best price is from www.pro-sim.co.uk, and the price for the unit with no rim is ￡2,350 (or around $3,165 USD). The SimSteering2 54 is ￡2,666 (or roughly $3,600). That's before taking:
A. Shipping & Customs
B. Adding a Rim/Mounting Bracket
Hopefully this adds some input!
What is clipping?
I have a t300rs etc and with ffb turned up it could snap your shit off it's that strong. If this is stronger than that it's not for me. I heard they were more subtle but realistic. I mean you think about it you don't get that much power back from a real car
lee young now we gonna need power steering
No wonder why they give you an emergency button to cancel all forces because you crash and it starts to wobble in every direction, you can literally break your arms ! No kidding.
ever been offroading and hit something with your tire?
The strength isn't the best part, most people turn aren't using the full power of these wheels, the speed of the wheel is much better and it provides more detailed feedback, that is what really makes a direct drive wheel so much better.
BREAKING NEWS: TEEN BREAKS HIS ARM FROM SIM RACING AT HIS HOUSE BY A DIRECT DRIVE MOTOR. HE WAS RUSHED TO HOSPITAL IMMEDIATELY
2:28 What is this game?
Thank you!
Yup
That is super expensive. I'm just wondering how would my kids manage to drive something like that if it has so much force or maybe a better question would be "how can I keep them away from such an expensive wheel?" - I think I will stay with the Logitec G920 for now. Everyone in the family can use it and I won't cry if it breaks :-(
It's not a rocket. Your kid wouldn't break his arms trying to use it. Also all these high end wheels can be adjusted. If you really were worried you could turn it down.
Damn, that Rift looks tiny.
Rip Will you legend
Grate video buddy
You're awesome man!!!
good video, but i don't think you understand the relationship between torque, angular speed, and power. a low torque wheel can cope with a given angular speed as long as it can supply enough power. this doesn't tend to happen with standard wheels because so much power is being sapped by the belts and gears when everything starts moving vigorously. (and if power drops, torque drops below what the electronics are requesting. P=tw) Also, the (modestly priced) motor is high speed & low torque, meaning it has to really travel to do its job ... and since it's probably not optimised for those rare furious jerks when you get into trouble, the motor is probably struggling at those revs. this is roughly analogous to your perfectly fine voltage sagging when your electronic whatever suddenly needs to draw more current. another way of putting it is that your low torque wheel becomes an even-lower-torque wheel if it isn't designed to cope with speed. direct drive by and large is brilliant at coping with speed. so put me down as one of those people who are quite sure a direct drive wheel doesn't need the torque to wrench your shoulder out of its socket. all the information can still be there, but at a "lower volume", so to speak. fwiw i cut my sim teeth on Atari's marvelous "Race Drivin'", which i believe had a 70 volt direct drive motor; and which (a) ruined commercial wheels for me [i used a $40 non-FF wheel for years, and when i moved to FF my times just got worse and it never felt right] and (b) hurt my shoulder because i drove with one hand on the stick, which took maybe two or three years to heal. i suspect if anybody could find a scrap cabinet the wheel would be good for re-purposing with some new electronics
muito top
I stoped watching when he said that torque defines how quick something can be...
Because hes correct?
@@trigger8152 Absolutely not. Just think about car gearboxes. The first gear will have a lot of torque and low RPM. The fifth gear has a lot of RPM but low torque, all of that when run by the same engine. Adjusting the example to this particular case, if the torque that the fifth gear produces is enough for the sim, it would be much better to "have a wheel on fifth gear" then on first gear cause it would react much better to the sim, even though it has way less torque.
Long story short: you don't need the wheel to have more torque then the sim asks for. Take the rest of the torque and turn it into speed and you're much better equipped.
I like this guy but man is he awkward! Funny thing is... That's what I think I like about him! It works! Good job man, keep it up!
What you do with that amount of forces? Racing cars are not old russian trucks.
belt drive just fucked me on iracing. didn't know I was loose until it was too late.
CSW v2s peak torque is 8.5 nm and not 6.5 ;)
I've driven with a old wingman formula force gp, without any ffb, I was still able to catch slides, to correct mistakes, to steer the car verry precise. I don't see the need for anything like this, it just seems to me like it is a verry expensive gimmick.
Sim/games are meant to be realistic. Don't like FFB? Don't bother.
I love good FFB don't get me wrong, but I just wanted to state that you don't need the creme de la creme of FFB to drive a good lap or to race properly. This still seems like a verry expensive gimmick, a logitech or thrustmaster racing wheel will do just fine imo.
Well Direct Drive wheels are meant for professional trainning, it is no way near gimmick since a lot of professional racing team use it.
It just doesn't make sense to buy it when you don't own a professional racing team imo...
If you do, ofcourse you will do everything to improve things by only a bit, that much is logical. Not so much if you don't own one, or it isn't your job...
But your opinion may varry ofcourse.
I would much rather have a high end pedal set than a dd wheel
sim ou nao
AliExpress?
Muito top
I've tried a lot of sim wheels except ones that real racing teams use and it does feel kind of real but it's nothing compared to the real deal. But it works well for learning new courses and testing things that could help IRL.
Imagine using a direct drive wheel with tamohawk VGT
step 1 of getting direct drive get health insurance
less smooth? I don't think so mate..an osw is immensly smoother than any consumer wheel, it's not even fair to compare.
its a starter motor😮
Stepper motor.
What is a direct drive steering wheel? Something I can’t afford
you said the ffb of a DD Wheel is maybe less smooth... that is not correct... the ffb is very smooth... you do feel all the details from the mini kinds of textures from the road to heavy bumps that feel like someone is punching your wrist/arm/shoulder... (with quite high force) ... but the ffb doesn't become less smooth because of the fastness /quickness... it's all very smooth.. at least with the common industrial servo motors used in the OSWs and bodnar systems... it is faster, stronger, more sensitive to mini forces but at the same time it is also smoother.... ofcourse you need to filter the signals a little bit.. otherwise it makes a noise from hell and is not smooth :) but that's usual with motors
William, no.1, DD wheels are consumer units, anyone can buy one so why do you say "compared to consumer wheels" ?
no.2 a ghetto blaster is a slang term for a portable stereo, what you actually mean is ghetto rig, not ghetto 'blaster' rig.
kitten11977 1. "Consumer" isn't a term used in regards to who CAN buy it, but it is a term in regards to who the product is MARKETED towards. A Thrustmaster, Fanatec, Logitech, etc wheel is being MARKETED towards consumers.
The Simsteering2 is marketed as a PROFESSIONAL product. If you go to the Simsteering website, you will see that it is being marketed as a training tool for professionals, or used for corporate events, etc.
I would classify Open Sim Wheels and the Accuforce as "Prosumer Products", bridging the Gap between a consumer and professional option.
You can buy any of the products, true, but that isn't what determines what is classified as a "Consumer Product".
2. I know what a Ghetto Blaster is, that's why I thought it would be a funny name for my cockpit ;)
Why is it so expensive?
Easiest answer, is the parts themselves are expensive! For example, to build your own Open Sim Wheel, you need the motor, the SimuCube chip/software, and the "pc components". The MiGE Motor (most common OSW choice) is usually around $250-$300. Then you need the SimuCUBE motherboard, IONI motor drive, and a power supply.
If you buy the ready-to-go motor from SimRacingBay, and build your own SimuCUBE component box, you're looking at €877 in parts alone, before putting anything together! You can get a lower price by getting the motor through a different retailer, like AliExpress, but then you have to deal with the logistics of buying from that marketplace. I've seen them for about €230 online (I think), so that's only about €70 savings, so you'd still be spending around €800 in parts.
That being considered, those people selling OSW packages are actually giving us a solid deal!
Capitalism
you said force instead of torque two different things!
4 grand holy.... that's what costs my e46 m3
Worst scenario at 4 grand ( for professionnal use and driving teams )....OSW can cost 1000 to 1500, depends on where you live.
an E46 M3 for 4 grand???
+IntentionHQ an E46 M3's steering wheel maybe xD
direct drive does not make it more powerful in itself, there is a huge difference in quality between these wheels and the more "hobby" ones.
A elektronik servo for cars is not direct drive and they dont seem to have a problem with low torque or low precision, the same goes for Segways, if you manage to hold on to the wheel of one it will send you flying.
MadKatz4Life :-)
The dd wheel has made sim racing a domain for the rich where it used to be for everyone.
Lol! Only $900. for diy? What a bargain! Lmao! 🤣🤣🤣
I rather buy cheap car and drive on a real track...
But still cost more if you do lots of track days.
boa noite falar serio portugues como falar motor volunte f1
procura compra
sim ou nao ?
Alta qualidade 90ST-M02430 AC Servo Motor 750 W 2.4N.M 24kgf. Cm 3000 rpm AC Servo Motor e motorista com cabo
minha ajudar resp?
Ler mais
Brah, you can make you car a lot faster for less than you paid for all this. Just saying.
Bit pricey for my wallet, ill stick with thrustmaster tx :)
1.25 speed
dank me later
he sounds so much more enthusiastic xD
If you put it at 2x Speed, I sound like a chipmunk ;)
LOL
u seem like u don't confidence talking into camera few more years keep it up!