F-22 Raptor Vs YF-23 Black Widow II | Advanced Tactical Fighter | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2023
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
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C’mon GS, it’s time for you to get behind the stick of a YF-23.
A plane able to do this to the Raptor is the stuff of nightmares.
1 v 1 with F-22 vs YF-23. No AMRAAMs. Only sidewinders and guns.
GS it’s been a while since you’ve gotten your ass kicked like that two rounds in a row
Avro Arrow vs Anything.
I would love to see a rogue raptor targeting Air Force 1 and an entire fleet of F16, F18, etc tasked with stopping the rogue raptor at downing AF1
Yes, please.
I really hope GS sees this this is brilliant
Hell yeah, that's a fantastic scenario 👍 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Absolutely back this suggestion, be ready for a day series now
Too risky a concept, YT algorithm could get the video demonitised
Why not have the aggressor force be near peer unallied, that would be the safer bet
Never thought I'd see a squadron of F-22s get their ass kicked like that. The YF-23 is no joke!
well the F-22s did lose both times but not by much each time it was a one aircraft difference and was likely more to blame on skill rather than aircraft
Never was a joke, if somethings stealthier than the 22 it's going to have a BVR nightmare
@@user-iz5fk1ug6deven after having backing of a AWACS? I do understand yf23 will get below 1 lose to win ratio in dogfight with f22, cuz both crafts have different strengths but U have to admit that yf23 was the stronger opponent here
They didnt get their ass kicked, although they did win, the stealthier aircraft usually is going to win the BVR fight, Now let them merge and see what happens......... Wont even be close, and thats why the Raptor Won the contract
The YF-23 would have been for sure the most advanced aircraft of ATF if fully developed and produced
The 23 looks like a 6th gen fighter. Such a wonder of engineering.
5.5th gen at best
I honestly think a modern F-23 would be closer to a 5.5 gen
You only say that because you are used to the f22
@@scoobsshrooms109 I’m willing to bet that the new US 6th gen fighter will look more like a 23 than a 22.
Scene 13:58 - "It feels like you're getting killed by ghosts."
Yes, and that's because one of the ghosts is PAV-1, also known as "Gray Ghost".
Really liking the way you are showcasing the YF-23. Not nice being stalked is it! 😉
oh trust me, GS knows how it feels 🤣 the f22 lives in his head rent free
@@Jake_GarciaI remember watching the video when it dropped where he got formed up by the F22 before being shot down when he was flying the Flanker. Laughed for days. Then again like a week ago a Widow formed up on him while he was in an F15. He's gotta have nightmares 😂
Yep, I remeber that Flanker too. He even would notice Raptor if Flanker wouldnt had mirrors-orangey thingy in mirror was hint that Raptor is closer to him than comfortable
Love the part where GS is plotting a 2 v 1, and his buddy immediately gets taken out. But I gotta say, it is enjoyable to watch the Raptor get a taste of its own medicine.
Not a good day when you’re asking, “What is happening.”
I SEE BLACK WIDOW I CLICK
They should have taken the black widow as replacement for Tomcat for the Navy like Raptor was supposed to be the new Eagle.
Unfortunately the government lacked vision.
$
YF23 my beloved
I see SW i click. Love all he does
.
@@mikek9297They did have vision, it’s just that their vision was focused on 1. wanting the fighter to match Russian maneuverability (which was basically unnecessary), and 2. wanting to keep Lockheed afloat
I've heard that the F-22 was technically a better dogfighter than the YF-23, but I kind of recall some report decades ago that said in the majority of historical air to air kills, the plane shot down never even knew the other plane was there. Apparently, the superior stealth of the YF-23 takes that statistic and dials it up to 11.
Everybody know that the YF-23 concept was more advanced at the time of ATF...the YF23 being more a prototype of a 6th gen aircraft rather than 5th gen one!
I think that is why the F22 was picked, it was good enough at the time for what was needed. Then the YF23 was "shelved" or continued development to become 6th gen.@@slate4687
@@slate4687 I always favored the YF-23 in all their testing. I had hoped it would have been their pick. When it wasn't, I was upset, but I had always conspired that it turned onto a dark project and went on for development as a 6th gen fighter. It's just so damn cool.
@@Cronus_1The chances of there being a secret 6th gen plane is almost 100%. The US should at most have one already in development. Think about how top secret planes were developed in the past. We may have a plane that is so stealthy that its more akin to a spaceship than traditional aircraft.
@RaijinKaze this is why I had that theory. It made sense to me.
"Feels like you're getting killed by ghosts"
Like a Gray Ghost?
It’s just insane how something that’s bigger and wider than a semi truck can dance and twist in the air as gracefully and easily as it does. The F-22 is an engineering marvel across the board, man. I know DCS isn’t a direct indicator for real life performance for jets like these, but I could only imagine how dominant F-22s would be in actuality against just about everything in the sky.
Well said brotha
I'm convinced the f22 is alien technology and nothing will ever change my mind
@@0x_hackerfren The YF-23 is even more alien than the F-22 as seen in the video.
@@0x_hackerfren Its literally StarScream bruh, a goddamn Decepticon, which indeed is an alien lol
21 tons twisting through the air like a falcon.
Wonder how the YF-23 would have done with AWACs support? Would nice to see you fly the YF-23 for a change....
As soon as they get a functional cockpit for the YF23 model in DCS we will surely get GS demonstrating it's prowess❤
Black Widows Thrust to Weight is SICK 1.36! Thats crazy. F22 IS 1.O8...and better than the F16 at 1.1😮
F-22 with winders at 50% is the 1.33, F-16 with winders and 50% is 1.25
What's winders explain thanks
@@johnbrooks6243he means sidewinders but I think that he also means to include AMRAAMs which are heavier and the f22 carries more of
I wouldn't take any of that for empirical evidence. After all the F-22 is true combat spec while the YF-23 was still a test vehicle. Although maybe that is taken into account? This is coming from a YF-23 fanboy BTW.
@@CrossWindsPatdon t forget that majority of Data about the YF23 (especially the PAV2 "gray ghost" with yf120 engines) is completely classified
I find it amusing that we seem to be going back to the YF-23 philosophy with NGAD and FA/XX. Superstealth at the cost of maneuverability.
Must be a ton of faith in the AIM-260 to reach out and touch the stealthy fighters.
Well with radar systems evolving as well, datalink becoming more and more common, and the rise of actual long range IRST and EO systems even the best stealth fighter can't really get that close to a well organised defense network anymore. Therfore engagement ranges are increasing once again.
@@bluefox9436 its more about high off bore missiles and head mounted targetting making low speed maneuverability pointless ... when you can lob missiles over the shoulder and guide them back on target even if they miss over the datalink the ability to point the nose becomes basically meaningless and not worth sacrificing other aspects of the platform for ...
a lesson russians still havent learned yet despite the USSR pioneering concept of HOBS and HMD ...
Would love to see the reaction of the yf23s makers watching this.
Ikr
Them: "We fucking knew all along!"
I suspect something like, "We told you so, you big knuckleheads!"
I enjoyed the casual near miss on the self-inflicted maneuver kill
The Black Widow needs to go up against the Felon and Mighty Dragon.
If the F-22can kick their ass, so could the Yf-23.
@@davidbuffum4887 Yeah, except GS had to try being the aggressor. 🤣
Thank you for one more video involving the YF-23. You know what I would really love to see? A dogfight between the F-22 and the YF-23, to see how much of a manoeuverability advantage the F-22 really has (well, according to DCS)
There's already a video on his channel for that
@@spencercarsner5078 That wasn't a dogfight though that was a BVR fight testing the stealth of the aircraft. He's talking guns only, since it would just be AIM9X vs AIM9X otherwise with both firing from any angle they want
@@spencercarsner5078 Oh, I must have missed it. Until now I only saw BVR, missile based attacks.
@@JenkemSuperfan I think it will happen eventually.
What would really interest me would be YF-23 vs. Su-57
If BVR terms you would basically be asking for a fight between a UFC fighter with 9 hours of sleep against 8 children in wheelchairs
I think we made a mistake when it comes to the F23 Black widow ll
Northrop Grumman thought that the challenge was to build the absolute best fighter bar none, whereas Lockheed Martin went for a more traditional approach that would be easier to produce.
But during atf, the airforce was not sure about northrop Grumman as everyone knows about what happened during development of b2, so they did not want to mess up a fighter jet which was goin to be serving for many years and take role of a air superiority....
And ironically it was still cancelled… for being too hard to produce and maintain.
Too overengineered for upkeep it seems, F-22 was the perfect balance between the two
More than anything it was politics. Northrop already had the B2 contract. To award them with another contract would’ve hurt Boeing. I grew up in an aerospace town which lived and died on government contracts. That’s how those things go.
IMHO, I think USAF wanted thrust vector controls. They prob thought we'll have stealth either way, but wanted to out-acrobat the 4th gens as well. Just my 2 cents
I'd still like to see you fly the F23.
It would be good to see teams swap aircraft to really see if it's pilot or aircraft. Also, are there techniques that need to be developed in the F-22 to overcome the widows advantages? Great episode 👏
The YF-23 has again the improper avionics in it. Hence why you don't see GS switch to the YF-23.
I think the other challenge is finding players who can fly both types well. Not everyone is a TH-camr who does this a lot. A GS+LS collab could work tho.
@@traviswalker8933 thank you.
@@sunray501 interesting 🤔
I find it amazing how the Black Widow completely eliminates the Raptor's dominance and fights it on an even keel, even almost outclassing it. Many thanks for this rematch.👍
I teared up a bit at that first impact. And then the second also. These planes are too beautiful to be falling out of the sky like that.
@GrowlingSidewinder when are *_YOU_* gonna get in the YF-23 cockpit to demonstrate what she can do?
I assume the Widow's simulation parameters are educated guesses- it would be interesting to dial down the radar signature in steps and see at what point they become unbeatable.
The YF-23 silhouette looks like a flying squirrel
YF23 is the only thing that has anything on a F22. Imagine if the Airforce had both 😳
Now Imagine if the non-selected plane was allowed to be exported to allies like Japan.
@@revolverswitch they wont do it because they know the YF-23 was better all along lol.
A part of me hopes they bring it back, as a 5.5 gen fighter or as a 6th gen.
@@lewiemotorsports3616 like a 5+ to 5++ generation?
@@revolverswitch exactly lol
I love the YF-23, got to see Grey Ghost back in May, they’re even more beautiful in person.
The best matchup for the F-22 and YF-23 in my opinion, the YF-23 “Black Widow” “Grey Ghost” is one of my favorite stealth fighters, next to the F-22 Raptor
Imagine making something so unbelievably unkillable and also making the only thing that can kill that other thing. Wild.
Thank you for creating a video of my request GS. Excellent video! It’s nice to see a peer aircraft fight the omnipotent F-22. So many times the Raptor dominates engagements. It’s nice to see the King Raptor being hunted on its terms. 😉👍☺️
It's always crazy seeing a Raptor bleed! Really makes you wonder how much further a production F-23 could have advanced if it won the ATF contract.
I loved GS using the mountains Flanker style! It looked like, while he was DEEP in them behind peaks- it DID work, and it also benefited his buddy that avoided a missile while in the Mountain Range!
It's kinda cool to see how the mountains just throw off Radar and missiles- but you have to be really deep in them, and not on the edge/ the flat area where it's easy to shoot at foes- but you're vulnerable if anyone spots you. GS shoulda stayed deep in them(admittedly they weren't the tallest)- and merged with one or two intentionally lol
YF-23 is hands down the most beautiful aircraft I have ever seen.
Agreed. Looks like an alien spaceship.
If the ATF competition was solely based on aesthetics, YF-23 would have ran away with the win. It is the best looking “almost” fighter aircraft I’ve seen. I honestly think the USAF had a win-win situation there. Either aircraft would eventually be the dominate platform of today. But only one had to be picked.
I'd go with an F14 but yf23 is damn close
HANDS DOWN!!! Fucking UFO!!!!
The SR-71 has entered the chat.
The YF-23 is terrifying.
The utter decimation of the f-22 squad has given me even more respect for an aircraft that I already had much respect and love for (granted DCS isn't 100% accurate, but it's tje closest we got and dang is it good! Love your videos man! Keep it up!
This is surreal, the mighty Raptor being forced to do Flanker tactics and hide in the mountains and getting its ass kicked in the open.
What a terrifying machine the YF-23 is man.
I still love it last time when the Black Widow sneaked up on and bit you from the back.
4:01 - just how close were you from landing on that hill? I’m guessing less than 10 feet. Happy holidays, GS!
Was thinking maybe 2!
There's a ground squirrel running around with a new haircut!!!😁🤣🤣
Yeah, definitely less than 10 feet off the deck. That was a pucker moment for sure, lol.
so cool to see the "potential" of the black widow. its crazy that its winning because of the only 2 advantages it has over the raptor. just shows either choice from the program was a good one.
The video a lot of us were waiting for 😌
Thanks for your daily posts @GrowlingSidewinder and Merry Christmas
Nice to see the YF-23 getting the love that it rightfully deserves!
Keep producing more of these! 🙂
I think the Black Widow is still a little bit salty about not being picked.
I’ll never get sick of the F22 content
Same. Best jet ever made
Second best jet ever made.
thanks for making awesome videos. I barely miss any vid and I love em
In some ways this was a challenge between 5th gen vs 5.25 gen!
Oh I love these. Keep up the good work! Hello from Idaho and Merry Christmas 🎅
The second AWACS kill + ejection. That second dude out hot his ass suntanned by that fireball 😂
I would love to see a guns-only fight between these two aircraft. Maybe you could fly the YF-23 for a change :)
Actually, the F22 was only marginally more maneuverable than the YF23 in the official reporting of the fly off between the two aircraft. So, if the YF23 had've also gone into production there may not have been much difference when it came to dogfighting combat between the two. Technically, the F22 would've won more of the encounters but that also boils down to the skill of the pilots. But, if it was a BVR fight, the F22 would find itself in hot water. And, if it tried to run away, the F23 would've been more than capable of running it down due to its superior speed and acceleration.
and endurance between the prototypes the 23 had higher supercruising speed and more overall range
it was better plane in basically every aspect that mattered and its CRTIMINAL that the inferior platform was chosen instead due to backroom politicking and "looks" ...
"Feels like you are getting killed by ghosts" is something nobody every thought GS would say while in the F22😂
This is the best video. Well done. Nice seeing well matched aircraft.
It’s rare for you to lose, much less in the f22, much less TWICE
You know you don't need to waste your time and post 6 comments on GS getting demolished by the YF23s
Love watching your content - it's amazing how much you learn about the strategies. Question: those AWACS seemed to be flying pretty low ... why wouldn't they go higher and try to lure the F23s into range of SAM detection?
Thank you and merry Christmas
that single guy surviving AWACS crash with broken legs 5:22
You guys already know I see F 22 and I click!
I love your stealth fight videos !
I love watching your videos...I am former active duty AirForce (not a pilot) but certainly can take appreciation. You are very good at flying in DCS. Keep doing what you are doing..well done
Never have I wanted you to fail but today I did 😂 I'm a big 22 fan but I've always loved the 23s lines
Been waiting for this 🫶🏻
Thank you for today's video GS!
F22 is only very slightly more manuverable in certain aspects that the F23. The F23 has a considerabily smaller radar cross section. The F23 has better TWR and better FLIR system. Really what this exersise shows is that F23 was better ship, but Air Force was scared of it's so different.
well the I think the F-22 won for a good reason after all there is no way the air force would turn down a better jet for a worse one and I no I sound like a conspiracy theorist but really it is likely the the F-22 has one or more classified abilities after all much about the F-22 is classified and not to say the YF-23 did not have its own classified abilities but the F-22s are likely better seeing as it won.
@user-iz5fk1ug6d
Underrated points, thanks for keeping this conversation sane! I personally believe after much research into both jets that the Raptor is the superior plane in all the areas that were needed, hence the choice.
I think a Le Mans fight would be pretty cool, like from start up on the ramp or maybe just hot on the ramp, take off then fight, basically start from a 0 energy state
The bright side....the F-22 ejection system works good! 😆The machine can be replace but the pilot cannot.
I will continue to say it. I am cool with the USAF going with the F-22. But... If I were the president of the USA or secretary of defense in the year 1990, I would have ordered the secritery of the U.S. Navy to order a Naval YF-23 prototype with F-14 landing gear and a stealth door covering hook and try to get folding mid spand section wings for carrier ops Traps and Cats to evaluate the fesability of a carrier operating F-23 fleet to replace the F-14s when they retire.
Get aircraft carrier tactical " CAG " fighter pilots on naval systems requierments to that YF-23 prototypes, and if it all checks out, Take it to Congress to order the 200 or so F-23s to replace the F-14s when they retired in 2006.
Yes, they take up more deck space than an F-35C, which only became CAG operational, like 2020. I dont care!!! I want Naval F-23s !!!!! This would have justified having both these awesome ACFT in the USA arsenal.
I've never seen so many F-22s go down. Great video.
YES! More YF-23 content. Keep it coming.
I've been waiting for this!!
I remember watching the PBS special on the 22v23 and the JSF like it was an episode of survivor!
widow looks like some kind of space superiority plane.
I would love to see this from the cockpit of the YF-23
first time seeing him walking home biting dust 😂 keep it coming !
I'm telling you from experience it's no fun picking up parts of top secret planes in that high desert. Stationed at TTR Jul 1982- Dec 1988.
F-22: "Raptors are on the hunt."
YF-23: "heh. Bet."
Bro, how close were you to hitting the ground? Great save. Man, the YF-23 is insane. Still love my F-22. Great vid dude.
I'm loving these YF-23 videos. Keep em coming!
The YF-23 always looks so casual.
It's amazing how some people are so oblivious as to how good YF-23 really was.
Great vid! Being more maneuverable is good, but being invisible is better. Now if the USAF had both the Raptor and the Black Widow, they might be a great team!
Would love to see some GS WWII Pacific theater stuff. Corsairs, zeroes, etc
Pretty much what I expected; in a BVR fight with both sides having comparable avionics and the same missile the advantage goes to the stealthier platform. Still, it was a near-run thing.
Yf-23 is my favorite military jet even though it was never made probably the one plane that got me into aviation when I was younger
Love seeing the YF-23 take the victory. Appreciate you featuring it so much lately!
Nice to see GS have to sweat a little and work for his food this time. Spanking scrubs can get a tiny bit stale
Finally a f22 video worth watching
I love seeing pilot skills being a factor again while flying an F-22.
"F-22 -> The underdog"
That's a phrase I thought I would never hear... Unless It was facing *an I-16 Donkey*
Merry Christmas GS
GS : it feels like you're getting killed by ghost
YF23 : yeah and ghost is gray too
Love your channel great content would love to see you fly the yf23 against against the felon
Like fighting NGADs in an F-22.
honestly, the thing im most impressed with is the current dcs graphics. the motion blur is just the cherry on top. i fucking love it.
At the 4:00 mark you were insanely close to hitting the ground!
Look Ma, it's raining F-22s......
There's a sentence I never thought I'd hear. lol
Damn, party sweep on the Raptor is brutal.