The fighter maffia where not good designers They also said that these things are useless: radar, radio, advanced sensors, missiles and other things that are crucial in today’s air to air landscape
The Light Fighter Mafia (later rebranded itself the "Fighter Mafia" after the F-15 was a rousing success that combined high performance and heavy payload in one airframe) was far less influential than they want people to think in historical retrospect. They were right in broad strokes, but the way they were right is actually extremely trivial (and they were extremely guilty of pushing things like James Burton's horrifically flawed "Blitzfighter" concept that would have gotten every single man flying it killed - and no, Blitzfighter was not a "precursor" to the A-10 Warthog, it was an attempt to design a smaller, stripped-down, COMPLETELY VULNERABLE A-10 Warthog and it was laughed out of the room every time it was introduced). "A plane with high thrust and low weight will be a better dogfighter than a plane with moderate thrust and high weight"? NO FUCKING SHIT! The LFM wanted to take the things that made the F-16 a worthwhile fighter aircraft away from it, and leave it as a single-engine light fighter with a maximum capacity of four Sidewinders - and they didn't even really want the Sidewinders.
@@Jacobwwindeatt the F-16, honestly should have had a more capable radar and more fuel from the outset. The viper has to sortie with bags for just about everything, and that’s a problem.
I find it funny that Hillaker was the only member of the Fighter Mafia who was actually qualified to design a plane, and he tends to be among the lesser known members due to being one of the more reserved ones and even began to distance himself from the group in later years, wich I think speaks volumes.
Pierre sprey and the fighter mafia being given any credit is a massive red flag to the validity of anything said in this video tbh They were horrible designers with wrong predictions, Sprey wasnt even a designer he was a jazz label producer who lied to gain fame with his ludicrous claims
Sprey was a scammer who was eventually proved wrong. Even though the Gulf War proved him and his fellow travelers in the liberal media wrong, he tried to point to that war as proof of what he had advocated. That's hutzpah. It's amazing anyone listened to him, and that was only due to his skill at self-promotion.
People seldom realize just how good the F-14,F-15,F-16 & F-18 really are. All you have to do is look at all the different fighter designs leading up to the teen series designed in the 1970s. Then look at the new fighter designs after the teen series was adopted. There have been four completely different designs and only two of those have been adopted since the teen series came out in the 1970s, those are the F-22 & F-35. But we are still building new F-15, F-16 and F-18 fighters today roughly 50 years after their introduction. The designers really did an amazing job with the designs in the 1970s.
Oh, to see it come back, with Conformal Fuel Tanks, DSI air intake, GE engine with thrust vectoring and bl. 70 built and avionics, hardpoints rewired for SDBs / JAGMs.... and YF-16 vertical stabilizer for good measure.
Let's call it what it is: Fantasized. Not "rumored." The F-16 and F-35 are both built by Lockheed Martin. There is NO REALISTIC WAY that LM is going to offer air forces a product that internally competes with their own flagship aircraft.
Nice thing about the 16 being a cheap parts collection and modular from the start is that it can also serve as the basis for a shitload of experiments, hence why NASA loves them as a starting point.
Still sad to see the blasphemy of Fighter Mafia being spread around, I've lost all respect for Pierre Spray. And regarding the F16XL, regarding how much of a significant improvement it was in all aspects, from weaponry, range, payload, fuel economy, etc; the air force really should've kept the F16XL. Would've opened up so many options for it today.
This is one of my all time favorite 'what-if' fighters! I would love to see your take on the Lockheed Martin FB22, which is the ultimate 'I wish they built it' plane IMO!
unfortunately in real life, looks are not at all important...there are other factors that decision makers weigh...weapons load, distance (fuel), maintenance, turnaround...and most important to a pilot: survivability...you can say F5 looks sexy or A10 like a beast but f5 cant carry much and A10...just too slow, and both ended up serving limited functions...thats why US came up with F18 or F15SE, they know their stuff abt what works in war, in Total AW in fact...haha but some still want to forgo some mean jets, just bcos they look ugly in their opinion, yet had proven combat worthy and make a difference by being absolutely versatile cos it didn't need a runway aka HARRIER (to me the swiss army knife and trump card if you know how to deploy them strategically and with guile)
Yes the F-16XL was a good plane, but so was the F-15E and that plane just fit the strike fighter needs better. Remember, this was a competition to replace the F-111 so it had big shoes to fill in speed, range and payload capacity.
@@merafirewing6591 You are correct, the Aardvark was a Tactical Bomber. The F-16XL was primarily there to fix one of the biggest problems with the F-16, no range. We'd laugh while at Red Flag, when the F-16's would have to fly out last and return first in a mission package, due to their .7 (7/10ths of an hour) average mission times (without external bags). The Blk 50 and up gets an extra 30% or so with CFTs The F-15's could clock 1.5 mission times and my F-111's could do 2.1 on internal fuel only. The base F-16 had to have inflight refueling to carry a load and have range.
@merafirewing6591 You are correct. The AMP (Avionics Modification Program) was in full swing but due to the Air Force trying to talk Congress into 3 to 400 more F-22's, by getting rid of all unwanted airframes, they happily yanked them out of depot, unfinished and scrapped them as soon as they could. AMP gave the Vark a full glass cockpit, dual laser gyros, and a bunch of other systems. The F-15E is a good airplane, but it can not do the same nighttime low level (200 ft) penetration effectively. Essentially, it's an accurate higher level bomb truck with some air defense capabilities. It IS a moot point, though, as the F-111 would have only lasted a few more years anyway, the Aussies had them until 2010 and they were still relevant then. Loved the airplane!
same profile as the Swedish J35 in the -60s. due to export regulations, the USA was not allowed to buy combat aircraft from Sweden then and tried the same profile on the F16 model.
@@jerksundmark7776Did the US want the Draken? In hindsight maybe we should have had it or a plane like it. But at the time we had the people that sent the F4 into war without a gun. I have always loved the Draken and would love to hear that we wanted it, please explain.
Is that the ketsusjin Studio game? Ive been trying to find it but havent got a gripe of It so Far. Loved riding on the F86 at high speeds using WEP hehehehej
Another great video and in my opinion, the F-16XL is a fighter that should have been built. That extra range and payload capability looks really good today.
yep somehow just bcos the word mafia is attractive to non-aviators as it sounds like scarface only needed his henchmen but in the end he blew open a door with an M203
I’ve always wondered why this project couldn’t be revived and sold primarily to foreign governments. I also have thought that the F-16XL could have been paired with a revived F-20 program, the proposed upgraded F-5, as an export only, technology transfer program. Both being sold as a low cost, multi-role, air/ground/interceptor system, with overlapping technologies, interchangeable avionics and engines.
@@soulsphere9242 International export technology sharing, like the Korean KF-21, on a single model, that does the missions of both the F-16 and F-15; to be manufactured in the buyer's country, without having to turn over the technology to build anything equivalent to a Block 70 F-16 and/or F-15QA?
After I got to sit in the F16 as a kid when my did flew the BudLight MicroJet in the Airshows, I was hooked on it! It's still my favorite fighter... I'm surprised those new integrated Fuel Tanks don't affect the Performance of it
Thank you for the video, I read an article about these about 1990 or so and wondered why I never saw them again. It's no wonder they were outclassed by the f-15. Another mystery solved.
SCAMP was original purpose of the XL, not multirole combat. You don't supercruise and maneuver at supersonic speed when lugging bombs under the wings. The emphasis on bombing came later when the design was repurposed and entered in the Enhanced Tactical Fighter competition, was was won by the F-15E. The video omits the fact that the XL didn't really achieve supercruise until it was later given a more powerful engine by NASA. It also doesn't mention that the XL was inferior to the production F-16 in subsonic high G maneuvering due to greater energy bleed.
If the F-16XL had been built, it would have had to replace either the base F-16, or the F-15E. The budget wasn't there to do reasonable numbers of all three. You could have replaced the base F-16, but that would result in fewer total as due to the increased cost of the XL. You could have replaced the F-15E, but that would have been buying less capable airframes for the same cost., especially maintenance costs due to it being a third separate airframe. In the end, it was just more cost-effective to use a high/low procurement of F-15Es and F-16s.
The USAF may use the F16 for strike missions a lot but for many export customers it is their air superiority aircraft. Hillaker got it right the first time. The second version F16XL would have been great for its intended role too.
The problem with the F-16XL is that for purely the strike fighter role, the F-15E Strike Eagle was better. And for a multi-role fighter...it's a lot more expensive than the standard F-16.
You might wanna do your homework. The young man standing beside Hillaker in that photo is Andy Lewis, son of then General Dynamics CEO David Lewis. He's the only reason that the two XL airframes ever got built. The program was originally called SCAMP, a supersonic cruise aircraft that somehow got morphed into a bomb dump truck. The two XL aircraft had good sustained turn performance due to their low wing loading, but otherwise they were total pigs. The wings were GD's first large scale use of graphite-epoxy, and as such were VERY conservative in their design (the wing skins being over a inch thick at the root). When the first XL was rolled out of the north end of the factory for reporters, it promptly sat on it's tail once the tow bar was removed from the nose gear, it was THAT tail heavy. lol How do I know all this? I was there.
F-16XL is what the F-102 Delta Dagger, F-106 Delta Dart, F-104 Starfighter and F-4 Phantom supposed to be. However, the problem with the F-16XL is the intended role has been filled by F-15C and F-15EX, also the F-16V and the Navy counterpart F/A-18E/F can do the same ground strike missions at the same time carry air to air missiles for self defense. On the other hand, how to compete against Rafale in the international market is a big question.
The F-16XL was a contender for the Advanced Tactical Fighter (which the F-15E won because of upgradability) role not an interceptor and many of the technologies developed for it have found their way into newer F-16 variants
This fighter is my favorite, although never in service. I love this plane. It was the test plane for the wing design, thrust vectoring, and alot more innovations. And proved the concept, design, and capabilities. Does the prototypes still exist? It would be amazing if they were flown in airshows, Check out the Wingman series of books, a ZL was featured in them.
I remember first seeing this version or something very much like it in a Chevy Chase film from 1983 called ‘Deal of the Century’ which also featured combat between it and an advanced UAV. The movie wasn’t very good but I thought those scenes were pretty rad for the time.
same profile as the Swedish J35 in the -60s. due to export regulations, the USA was not allowed to buy combat aircraft from Sweden then and tried the same profile on the F16 model.
I worked the F-16XL program at Edwards AFB back iin 1981-1982 as an Armament Systems Evaluator. Definitely a fine aircraft! Sad that we lost out to the F-15 Strike Eagle. I went on in later years to work the the Strike Eagle, both at RAF Lakenheath and Seymour Jouhnson, NC. All said I would of liked to see the XL in service.
The F16 is my favorite fighter jet. It looks the best IMO, and the XL is absolutely stunning from the top down view. Regardless, they made the right choice in going with the F-15 Strike Eagle. It just made more sense.
The Air Force generals in charge are F-15 veterans. Who wanted the F-15E over the F-16XL. Had the air force ever ordered additional F-16’s the XL would likely have been produced
The last tranche of F-16s ordered were delivered from 2006-2010. We got a LOT of Vipers, and relatively few Eagles. The XL was proposed to replace the F-111, a very large tactical bomber.
@@katherineberger6329 Pretty sure the USAF got its last F-16s around 1997 (and the last of the F-15Es were around 2001). But yes, this was all long after the XL was canned.
The F-16XL might have actually done well in export markets considering it's good performance and ground attack capability, for smaller air forces which don't have the luxury of buying F-15 grade jets as well as others, the F-16XL seems a happy compromise.
No... what happened is that the Phantom IIs were kicking butt! However.... after a friendly kill incident, the "Brass" ordered thereafter that all engagements must be in visual range.... and so, the Phantom that had no internal Gun had a major disadvantage since the Phantom II was pretty much designed as a middle boat designed for long range engagements.... not dog fighting.....
Tested the F-16XL in “Strike Fighters Modern Combat” she’s best used for air combat though for ground pounding there’s only so much JDAMs that she can carry.
And the Typhoon has been "whooped" multiple times by the F-16. They fly and train with and against each other regularly. The Typhoon would have the advantage in close, but a modern or modernised F-16 would have the advantage at longer changes due to better radar.
I like the look of the F-16XL however, the viper just looks completely menacing, ready to tear other planes apart. So I’m kinda glad we (Denmark) got the F-16
The choice between both of the jets was hard to think, they know than one will change forever plane designs and one will forever change strike capabilitys
To see some of the footage -- that was great, the way that the author tried to 'talk up' the XL (I assume it was because he liked it -- not practical -- that's a kids' concept) showed that they knew of very little in both comparison(s) and capabilities.
While I love the idea of the F-16XL, I wonder what would’ve happened to European aerospace if it was approved. Going by what happened with the F-100, F-104, and the F-4, we’ve might not’ve had such beautiful European designs.
Strike Eagle is a beast of a strike craft, Viper is also a monster dogfighter in its own right, XL would have lost the rate fighting capability of the original Viper and then again fall short of a powerhouse like the Strike Eagle... XL faced the same problem Tiger shark faced in its own time, being a good design nobody really actually needed cause more familiar and accessible options were already present... For example since F35 is available for export many countries just go on and buy it, when they can't or denied, like Turkey for example then making one becomes an option, or the counterparts that Russia and China claim they have to offer as stand in versions, or F22 is not for export so Korea makes their own, but when they can buy they buy F15K, perhaps the best Strike Eagle out there... we will later see about the EX or SE...
Not to be nitpicking, but I have to nitpick - at 11:35 ; the European 4th generation fighters did not follow the designed proved effective by the F-16XL, the delta and double delta wing had already been proven long before that (for example the Saab Draken first flew in 1955, and Saab Viggen first flew in 1967). Europe always liked the short takeoff/landing distances that the delta wing provided, even better with the canards. With that said, the F-16XL is a beautiful plane, and it's truly a shame it never got to be put in operational service.
Love the F16XL in every way, what could have been the cousin to fly next to the f16 on missions. Even though not successful the f16XL shows many similarities to what happened with the F15 and F15E, the two single greatest aircraft ever made
It is the year 2024, in an alternate timeline. The US air force has a fleet of 1,000 F-16XL's, 500 F-15EX's, 750 F-22A's, 250 FB-22's, 100 B1R's, 20 B-2's, and is currently upgrading its fleet of B-52's and acquiring the B-21. A replacement for the A-10 is undergoing testing, being basically the same design but improved in every way, such as upgrading to a 40mm gun based on the polymer-cased, telescoped ammo for the UK's Ajax vehicle for maximum firepower. The F-35 was canceled due to being a moneypit that didn't work as advertised. The US navy has a fleet of F/A-18's, but instead of the Super Hornet, they have a fleet of Super Attack 21 Tomcats and a naval derivative of the F-22. The Marines have their Hornets and a fleet of new-build Harriers upgraded with modern technology derived from other fighter jets, including the canceled F-35, to the point it barely resembles the original aircraft except for its mission role and VTOL capabilities. US air power reigns supreme. The space shuttle was retired and replaced with a new, modern design more in line with the original NASA design rather than the cludged one the air force forced on them before ditching the project, NERVA rockets are lifting massive payloads into orbit on a monthly basis, there is a permanent base on the moon, construction has begun on the first O'Neill Island 3 space colony, and NASA is celebrating its first manned mission to Mars thanks to the help of some autistic billionaire named Musk that nobody has heard of. The SR-71 was retired just a few years ago, with its replacement, capable of mach 5, making its first test flight this year. The cause of this divergent timeline is Dick Cheney falling down the stairs and breaking his neck in 1986.
the Rafale, grippen and Eurofighter actually have straight delta wings, not cranked delta wings. They also all have Canards, which the F-16XL didn't have
This is why the us military is so dominant in the air. In the competition they had the F5, F16 & F18 to choose from while having the F4 f15 & FF14 in operation. Meanwhile the rest of Europe can only afford to develop one fighter and when it arrived decades late it's obsolete or worse if it's not up to the job they have to suck it up and use it.
*Pierre Sprey* : claims to have designed the F-16/15
*H.J. Hillaker* : "You're not that guy."
Pierre Sprey actually claimed to designed the F-15 and F-35 but not the F-16
@@Steve_Raglan_aka_William_Afton no what till his death he hated the f35 not surprising as he cant wrap his head around anything
“I’m that guy”
lol is that u amos
He also claimed he helped in building the A-10
The fighter maffia where not good designers
They also said that these things are useless: radar, radio, advanced sensors, missiles and other things that are crucial in today’s air to air landscape
Didnt they also try and use civilian handheld radios for communication?
What do you mean? How could early World War 2 air doctrine be outdated???
@@Willtabixx they wanted no radio at all I believe
Only after pressure from the usaf did they add a radio
Literally stopped watching when Pierre Sprey's photo popped up.
@pseudotasuki
🤣
Glad I'm not alone.
The Light Fighter Mafia (later rebranded itself the "Fighter Mafia" after the F-15 was a rousing success that combined high performance and heavy payload in one airframe) was far less influential than they want people to think in historical retrospect.
They were right in broad strokes, but the way they were right is actually extremely trivial (and they were extremely guilty of pushing things like James Burton's horrifically flawed "Blitzfighter" concept that would have gotten every single man flying it killed - and no, Blitzfighter was not a "precursor" to the A-10 Warthog, it was an attempt to design a smaller, stripped-down, COMPLETELY VULNERABLE A-10 Warthog and it was laughed out of the room every time it was introduced). "A plane with high thrust and low weight will be a better dogfighter than a plane with moderate thrust and high weight"? NO FUCKING SHIT!
The LFM wanted to take the things that made the F-16 a worthwhile fighter aircraft away from it, and leave it as a single-engine light fighter with a maximum capacity of four Sidewinders - and they didn't even really want the Sidewinders.
Oof, lol
Yeah
I'm half convinced the USAF went ahead with the LWF program just to get these guys to shut up.
yea like how do people still believe there shit
one of them wanted the f15 to carry all its fuel externaly and glide back to base
@@Jacobwwindeatt the F-16, honestly should have had a more capable radar and more fuel from the outset. The viper has to sortie with bags for just about everything, and that’s a problem.
I find it funny that Hillaker was the only member of the Fighter Mafia who was actually qualified to design a plane, and he tends to be among the lesser known members due to being one of the more reserved ones and even began to distance himself from the group in later years, wich I think speaks volumes.
When he said fighter mafia, the laserpig inside me woke up
Bro I feel you.
Me too, real engineer also made the same mistake
It felt like Lazerpig was coming inside of me
@@felixknorpp2803 pause. I understand what you mean. I agree but..... Pause
Pierre sprey and the fighter mafia being given any credit is a massive red flag to the validity of anything said in this video tbh
They were horrible designers with wrong predictions, Sprey wasnt even a designer he was a jazz label producer who lied to gain fame with his ludicrous claims
Sprey was a scammer who was eventually proved wrong. Even though the Gulf War proved him and his fellow travelers in the liberal media wrong, he tried to point to that war as proof of what he had advocated. That's hutzpah. It's amazing anyone listened to him, and that was only due to his skill at self-promotion.
Sprey was there to help the LFM on the publicity front. He wasn't an aviation engineer, but he knew how to sell product.
Pierre sprey was NOT an aviation engineer. He was a record producer, do research
Finally someone who understands
The whole fighter mafia is a load of shit.
@@M18Hellcat-17 agreed
@@Spaceman20150 well of course, I actually did my own research and watched laserpig
@@Willtabixx yeah
The fighter maffia was conplete bullshit and if they got their way the f16 would NOT look like it does now
Lol my man actually hyping up the Fighter Mafia
People seldom realize just how good the F-14,F-15,F-16 & F-18 really are. All you have to do is look at all the different fighter designs leading up to the teen series designed in the 1970s. Then look at the new fighter designs after the teen series was adopted. There have been four completely different designs and only two of those have been adopted since the teen series came out in the 1970s, those are the F-22 & F-35. But we are still building new F-15, F-16 and F-18 fighters today roughly 50 years after their introduction. The designers really did an amazing job with the designs in the 1970s.
Oh, to see it come back, with Conformal Fuel Tanks, DSI air intake, GE engine with thrust vectoring and bl. 70 built and avionics, hardpoints rewired for SDBs / JAGMs.... and YF-16 vertical stabilizer for good measure.
it came back...but in a different guise alright, under different names
The rumored F-36 Kingsnake makes use of a wing similar to the F-16XL.
Let's call it what it is: Fantasized. Not "rumored." The F-16 and F-35 are both built by Lockheed Martin. There is NO REALISTIC WAY that LM is going to offer air forces a product that internally competes with their own flagship aircraft.
@@katherineberger6329 Then why are they in the competition for the NGAD program? A program that will replace their flagships.
@@katherineberger6329there is more than one role needing played by aircraft. It isn’t one that rules them all.
The USAF has no need for a jet like that to replace the F16
@@tatthangnguyenxuan9621 Then what is the USAF doing with fifth and sixth gen fighters?
Nice thing about the 16 being a cheap parts collection and modular from the start is that it can also serve as the basis for a shitload of experiments, hence why NASA loves them as a starting point.
Still sad to see the blasphemy of Fighter Mafia being spread around, I've lost all respect for Pierre Spray. And regarding the F16XL, regarding how much of a significant improvement it was in all aspects, from weaponry, range, payload, fuel economy, etc; the air force really should've kept the F16XL. Would've opened up so many options for it today.
This is one of my all time favorite 'what-if' fighters!
I would love to see your take on the Lockheed Martin FB22, which is the ultimate 'I wish they built it' plane IMO!
Along with the RAH-66 Comanche. Damn, I love this helicopter 🥰
The F16XL is my favorite jet that never got a chance. It's a gorgeous design.
nah that pfp hadme tweaking cause I had never viewed this vid before
unfortunately in real life, looks are not at all important...there are other factors that decision makers weigh...weapons load, distance (fuel), maintenance, turnaround...and most important to a pilot: survivability...you can say F5 looks sexy or A10 like a beast but f5 cant carry much and A10...just too slow, and both ended up serving limited functions...thats why US came up with F18 or F15SE, they know their stuff abt what works in war, in Total AW in fact...haha but some still want to forgo some mean jets, just bcos they look ugly in their opinion, yet had proven combat worthy and make a difference by being absolutely versatile cos it didn't need a runway aka HARRIER (to me the swiss army knife and trump card if you know how to deploy them strategically and with guile)
This is why we have LazerPig on speed dial.
So he can say incorrect things and call people names?
@@zee_terminator2850And be a pig?
@@Sveta7 i mean thats just by the nature of his stupidity
@@zee_terminator2850 Oh no, show us where on the T-14 the bad Scotsman touched you...
oh boy oh boy he did not just say engineers and fighter mafia in the same sentence
Yes the F-16XL was a good plane, but so was the F-15E and that plane just fit the strike fighter needs better. Remember, this was a competition to replace the F-111 so it had big shoes to fill in speed, range and payload capacity.
Wasn't the F-111 already meant for a ground attack role.
@@merafirewing6591 You are correct, the Aardvark was a Tactical Bomber. The F-16XL was primarily there to fix one of the biggest problems with the F-16, no range. We'd laugh while at Red Flag, when the F-16's would have to fly out last and return first in a mission package, due to their .7 (7/10ths of an hour) average mission times (without external bags). The Blk 50 and up gets an extra 30% or so with CFTs The F-15's could clock 1.5 mission times and my F-111's could do 2.1 on internal fuel only. The base F-16 had to have inflight refueling to carry a load and have range.
@@paulholmes672 a shame that the F-111 was retired.
@merafirewing6591 You are correct. The AMP (Avionics Modification Program) was in full swing but due to the Air Force trying to talk Congress into 3 to 400 more F-22's, by getting rid of all unwanted airframes, they happily yanked them out of depot, unfinished and scrapped them as soon as they could. AMP gave the Vark a full glass cockpit, dual laser gyros, and a bunch of other systems. The F-15E is a good airplane, but it can not do the same nighttime low level (200 ft) penetration effectively. Essentially, it's an accurate higher level bomb truck with some air defense capabilities. It IS a moot point, though, as the F-111 would have only lasted a few more years anyway, the Aussies had them until 2010 and they were still relevant then. Loved the airplane!
More accurately the Air Force determined that the F-15E would be easier to upgrade in the future
Ah, the American version of the Saab 35 Draken.
true XD
same profile as the Swedish J35 in the -60s. due to export regulations, the USA was not allowed to buy combat aircraft from Sweden then and tried the same profile on the F16 model.
@@jerksundmark7776Did the US want the Draken? In hindsight maybe we should have had it or a plane like it. But at the time we had the people that sent the F4 into war without a gun.
I have always loved the Draken and would love to hear that we wanted it, please explain.
Ahh the falcon dorito
*Wizard squadron flashbacks*
"No rules in a dogfight. You just have to take the enemy down."
PJ : "Target Acquired. There's Four of Them!.
They Approaching on The Front"
This gives me Ace Combat nostalgia
F-16XL does exist in ace combat 7. One problem, that is locked behind a paywall, so that's that.
Is that the ketsusjin Studio game? Ive been trying to find it but havent got a gripe of It so Far. Loved riding on the F86 at high speeds using WEP hehehehej
@@RafaelGarcia-od5rbno, ace combat is made by Bandai namco
@@hi-Larry-ous And Project ACES
Another great video and in my opinion, the F-16XL is a fighter that should have been built. That extra range and payload capability looks really good today.
Funny how the Fighter mafia claims to hate missiles while they claim to build aircraft with lots of missiles on them
yep somehow just bcos the word mafia is attractive to non-aviators as it sounds like scarface only needed his henchmen but in the end he blew open a door with an M203
AMERICAN DORITO PLANE
Doritos are just nachos with cheese🤨
Idk what I'm doing
That's the F-22 transformer
@@nuggetsaurus-m3ethe superior version
Yes!?!?😊
I’ve always wondered why this project couldn’t be revived and sold primarily to foreign governments.
I also have thought that the F-16XL could have been paired with a revived F-20 program, the proposed upgraded F-5, as an export only, technology transfer program. Both being sold as a low cost, multi-role, air/ground/interceptor system, with overlapping technologies, interchangeable avionics and engines.
Why when they can buy the F-15E and later block F-16s...
@@soulsphere9242 International export technology sharing, like the Korean KF-21, on a single model, that does the missions of both the F-16 and F-15; to be manufactured in the buyer's country, without having to turn over the technology to build anything equivalent to a Block 70 F-16 and/or F-15QA?
So apparently the Intrepid museum has been hiding an F-16?! Finally saw it when I went for the eclipse, and dang, it's adorably (and lethally) tiny.
Did you get to Totality under clear skies? We ended up in Jackman, ME.
@@BlueTrane2028 from how far off, what state
@@virtual5448 I live just outside of Philadelphia, PA.
@@BlueTrane2028 decently far from us then, long way to go for an eclipse, i went to houlton, its only about 3O minutes from me
@@virtual5448 I’d go continents away if I could afford to. By distance we were 30 miles closer than 2017’s trip to Cookeville TN.
Imagine this with the 3d thrust vectoring F-16 engine built for the Vista, you’d get the F-16U, “U” standing for “ultimate”
delete the ) at the end of the url cause i cant edit on mobile
6:31 I seriously love how those Alaskan F-16s are painted with the Russian liveries 😂
Aggressor Squadron
The fact that the XL never went into production should have been a crime. :)
After I got to sit in the F16 as a kid when my did flew the BudLight MicroJet in the Airshows, I was hooked on it!
It's still my favorite fighter...
I'm surprised those new integrated Fuel Tanks don't affect the Performance of it
they do...slightly...when you try to land especially...but the newer engines compensated for that
Thank you for the video, I read an article about these about 1990 or so and wondered why I never saw them again. It's no wonder they were outclassed by the f-15. Another mystery solved.
It's a shame that we never got to see the XL in service, but hey the Strike Eagle is one helluva badass. So no complaints.
I have been waiting for a video on this aircraft. Thank you.
Long live the F-22 Raptor, the TRUE and ONLY King of the Skies! 👑
SCAMP was original purpose of the XL, not multirole combat. You don't supercruise and maneuver at supersonic speed when lugging bombs under the wings. The emphasis on bombing came later when the design was repurposed and entered in the Enhanced Tactical Fighter competition, was was won by the F-15E.
The video omits the fact that the XL didn't really achieve supercruise until it was later given a more powerful engine by NASA. It also doesn't mention that the XL was inferior to the production F-16 in subsonic high G maneuvering due to greater energy bleed.
If the F-16XL had been built, it would have had to replace either the base F-16, or the F-15E. The budget wasn't there to do reasonable numbers of all three. You could have replaced the base F-16, but that would result in fewer total as due to the increased cost of the XL. You could have replaced the F-15E, but that would have been buying less capable airframes for the same cost., especially maintenance costs due to it being a third separate airframe.
In the end, it was just more cost-effective to use a high/low procurement of F-15Es and F-16s.
Wrong, it would be replacing the then recently retired F-111 actually.
@@HYDRAdude It would have replaced the F-111, but the F-111 wasn't retired until the mid 90s.
It would have replaced the F-111, and the F-15E would have never been built. That's how military competitions work.
F-16 Extra Large is my favorate plan of all time...truely appreciated that you made this great video! :D
Also, the XF-17 later became the F/A-18 for the Navy and it also used a bit of the "cranked wing" design.
YF*
This cranked wign design is perfect for high G maneuvers, because it helps the airflow to stick to the wings (because it creates vortices) =)
The USAF may use the F16 for strike missions a lot but for many export customers it is their air superiority aircraft. Hillaker got it right the first time. The second version F16XL would have been great for its intended role too.
while was stationed at Nellis AFB,NV working on f4's and f-16's. I saw these flying in the test trails. Pretty cool jets.
f16 in an oversized hoodie
you mean an F16 dracula
"Mom, can we get a Dassault Mirage?"
"We have a Mirage at home."
The problem with the F-16XL is that for purely the strike fighter role, the F-15E Strike Eagle was better. And for a multi-role fighter...it's a lot more expensive than the standard F-16.
The F-16XL has nothing in common with the Eurocanards. The cranked arrow wing was designed for super-cruise, not for high manoeuvrability.
You might wanna do your homework. The young man standing beside Hillaker in that photo is Andy Lewis, son of then General Dynamics CEO David Lewis. He's the only reason that the two XL airframes ever got built. The program was originally called SCAMP, a supersonic cruise aircraft that somehow got morphed into a bomb dump truck. The two XL aircraft had good sustained turn performance due to their low wing loading, but otherwise they were total pigs. The wings were GD's first large scale use of graphite-epoxy, and as such were VERY conservative in their design (the wing skins being over a inch thick at the root). When the first XL was rolled out of the north end of the factory for reporters, it promptly sat on it's tail once the tow bar was removed from the nose gear, it was THAT tail heavy. lol
How do I know all this? I was there.
Very cool. Let's chat. I was there in the Wing Design Group.
@@wadelewis7252 Hi Wade, sorry to be so slow in responding. When were you there? I was there from 78 to 83.
F-16XL is what the F-102 Delta Dagger, F-106 Delta Dart, F-104 Starfighter and F-4 Phantom supposed to be. However, the problem with the F-16XL is the intended role has been filled by F-15C and F-15EX, also the F-16V and the Navy counterpart F/A-18E/F can do the same ground strike missions at the same time carry air to air missiles for self defense. On the other hand, how to compete against Rafale in the international market is a big question.
The F16XL lost out to the F15E Strike Eagle, that was the only reason. F15EX and Rafale were much later and never were contenders.
The F-16XL was a contender for the Advanced Tactical Fighter (which the F-15E won because of upgradability) role not an interceptor and many of the technologies developed for it have found their way into newer F-16 variants
War Thunder Community: its not accurate enough here's some classified documents on the f16s wing specs to prove that I'm right
I actually have a manual of the F-15
3:51
"Forward swept F-16 can't hurt you!"
Forward Swept F-16:
I was hoping for you to make a video about the f-16XL , thanks you very much ❤
F-16XL was definitely one of the great what if
I've seen that exact F-16XL (the one at 11:07) as a static display on the apron at the 2022 Edwards AFB Airshow.
The Thicc F 16 would have been a fine addition to the USAF. Just like the F 23 Black Widow
Indeed.........indeed
_*Wizard 1 happy noises_
I always liked this thing cause it's like someone needed a new truck design, so they started with their best little 2 seat sportscar design.
This fighter is my favorite, although never in service. I love this plane. It was the test plane for the wing design, thrust vectoring, and alot more innovations. And proved the concept, design, and capabilities.
Does the prototypes still exist? It would be amazing if they were flown in airshows,
Check out the Wingman series of books, a ZL was featured in them.
Wing planform is suspiciously akin to the genius SAAB Draken.
It's a shameless copy
I remember first seeing this version or something very much like it in a Chevy Chase film from 1983 called ‘Deal of the Century’ which also featured combat between it and an advanced UAV. The movie wasn’t very good but I thought those scenes were pretty rad for the time.
1:45 they are the ones who hated missiles, forgetting that the new ones improved.
same profile as the Swedish J35 in the -60s. due to export regulations, the USA was not allowed to buy combat aircraft from Sweden then and tried the same profile on the F16 model.
I worked the F-16XL program at Edwards AFB back iin 1981-1982 as an Armament Systems Evaluator. Definitely a fine aircraft! Sad that we lost out to the F-15 Strike Eagle. I went on in later years to work the the Strike Eagle, both at RAF Lakenheath and Seymour Jouhnson, NC. All said I would of liked to see the XL in service.
The F16 is my favorite fighter jet. It looks the best IMO, and the XL is absolutely stunning from the top down view. Regardless, they made the right choice in going with the F-15 Strike Eagle. It just made more sense.
The Air Force generals in charge are F-15 veterans. Who wanted the F-15E over the F-16XL. Had the air force ever ordered additional F-16’s the XL would likely have been produced
The last tranche of F-16s ordered were delivered from 2006-2010. We got a LOT of Vipers, and relatively few Eagles. The XL was proposed to replace the F-111, a very large tactical bomber.
The air force did order more F-16s, but they stuck to the standard design.
@@katherineberger6329 Pretty sure the USAF got its last F-16s around 1997 (and the last of the F-15Es were around 2001). But yes, this was all long after the XL was canned.
the editing gets better with every video
Only if it was bit cheaper so it could compete with F-16 not F-15
i know someone who has a RC jet one of these and it uses a real jet engine,cool to know some of its history
The F-16XL might have actually done well in export markets considering it's good performance and ground attack capability, for smaller air forces which don't have the luxury of buying F-15 grade jets as well as others, the F-16XL seems a happy compromise.
I love the f-16, it's a beauty
F-16 eXceeding the Limit
2:37 ND Air National Guard Happy Hooligans, my local unit hell ya.
Thanks, Found & Explained. I need me some laserpig thinking.
No... what happened is that the Phantom IIs were kicking butt!
However.... after a friendly kill incident, the "Brass" ordered thereafter that all engagements must be in visual range.... and so, the Phantom that had no internal Gun had a major disadvantage since the Phantom II was pretty much designed as a middle boat designed for long range engagements.... not dog fighting.....
Now I'm crazy sure but what if there was a modern variant of the English Electric Lightning or MiG-21 Fishbed or F-104 Starfighter
XF-108 Rapier
@@everypitchcounts4875 I'll give it a look
FINALLY, somebody recognizes the F-16's power.
Tested the F-16XL in “Strike Fighters Modern Combat” she’s best used for air combat though for ground pounding there’s only so much JDAMs that she can carry.
And once again, the F-20 goes unmentioned.
Eurofighter has that title over the F-16 lol... F-16 got whooped multiple times by the Typhoon XD
And the Typhoon has been "whooped" multiple times by the F-16. They fly and train with and against each other regularly. The Typhoon would have the advantage in close, but a modern or modernised F-16 would have the advantage at longer changes due to better radar.
Somewhere, I heard that this plane needed longer runways. That's a deal-breaker for a combat aircraft.
Both of the F-16XLs are at Edwards AFB's Flight Test Museum's on base air part.
"We didn't lose. But we could have won bigger."
The F-16XL looks like it took the same design direction / logic with mirage F1 that was primarily ground attack aircraft and secondary a " fighter"
I absolutely ADORE this plane! Great to see another video about it!
I like the look of the F-16XL however, the viper just looks completely menacing, ready to tear other planes apart.
So I’m kinda glad we (Denmark) got the F-16
The choice between both of the jets was hard to think, they know than one will change forever plane designs and one will forever change strike capabilitys
To see some of the footage -- that was great, the way that the author tried to 'talk up' the XL (I assume it was because he liked it -- not practical -- that's a kids' concept) showed that they knew of very little in both comparison(s) and capabilities.
While I love the idea of the F-16XL, I wonder what would’ve happened to European aerospace if it was approved. Going by what happened with the F-100, F-104, and the F-4, we’ve might not’ve had such beautiful European designs.
The Falcon and The Dragon having a baby. The Dorito Falcon!
Strike Eagle is a beast of a strike craft, Viper is also a monster dogfighter in its own right, XL would have lost the rate fighting capability of the original Viper and then again fall short of a powerhouse like the Strike Eagle... XL faced the same problem Tiger shark faced in its own time, being a good design nobody really actually needed cause more familiar and accessible options were already present...
For example since F35 is available for export many countries just go on and buy it, when they can't or denied, like Turkey for example then making one becomes an option, or the counterparts that Russia and China claim they have to offer as stand in versions, or F22 is not for export so Korea makes their own, but when they can buy they buy F15K, perhaps the best Strike Eagle out there... we will later see about the EX or SE...
the Super Phantom upgrade and the F-16XL are the alternate reality we never got.
Could the F-16XL be able to do the Cobra Maneuver?
Not to be nitpicking, but I have to nitpick - at 11:35 ; the European 4th generation fighters did not follow the designed proved effective by the F-16XL, the delta and double delta wing had already been proven long before that (for example the Saab Draken first flew in 1955, and Saab Viggen first flew in 1967). Europe always liked the short takeoff/landing distances that the delta wing provided, even better with the canards.
With that said, the F-16XL is a beautiful plane, and it's truly a shame it never got to be put in operational service.
Love the F16XL in every way, what could have been the cousin to fly next to the f16 on missions. Even though not successful the f16XL shows many similarities to what happened with the F15 and F15E, the two single greatest aircraft ever made
I love your channel but why u posting at 10PM (I speculate that not much people live in Australia and posting late will have positive view effects)
Most of my audience is USA and Europe. So why not upload now, go to bed and wake up to 100k views (fingers crossed LOL)
Long Story Short: Time Zones are B*****s
In France it's 2PM perfect for dinner time. 😊
It's 1537 where I'm at lol
Live in Perth - came out at 8pm for me
It is the year 2024, in an alternate timeline. The US air force has a fleet of 1,000 F-16XL's, 500 F-15EX's, 750 F-22A's, 250 FB-22's, 100 B1R's, 20 B-2's, and is currently upgrading its fleet of B-52's and acquiring the B-21. A replacement for the A-10 is undergoing testing, being basically the same design but improved in every way, such as upgrading to a 40mm gun based on the polymer-cased, telescoped ammo for the UK's Ajax vehicle for maximum firepower. The F-35 was canceled due to being a moneypit that didn't work as advertised. The US navy has a fleet of F/A-18's, but instead of the Super Hornet, they have a fleet of Super Attack 21 Tomcats and a naval derivative of the F-22. The Marines have their Hornets and a fleet of new-build Harriers upgraded with modern technology derived from other fighter jets, including the canceled F-35, to the point it barely resembles the original aircraft except for its mission role and VTOL capabilities. US air power reigns supreme. The space shuttle was retired and replaced with a new, modern design more in line with the original NASA design rather than the cludged one the air force forced on them before ditching the project, NERVA rockets are lifting massive payloads into orbit on a monthly basis, there is a permanent base on the moon, construction has begun on the first O'Neill Island 3 space colony, and NASA is celebrating its first manned mission to Mars thanks to the help of some autistic billionaire named Musk that nobody has heard of. The SR-71 was retired just a few years ago, with its replacement, capable of mach 5, making its first test flight this year.
The cause of this divergent timeline is Dick Cheney falling down the stairs and breaking his neck in 1986.
the Rafale, grippen and Eurofighter actually have straight delta wings, not cranked delta wings. They also all have Canards, which the F-16XL didn't have
Yep. The design philosophy is completely different. The video is kind of trash.
They should call the F-16XL the Magnum.
Didn’t know that the F16 got a child with the J35
"Strike Falcon"
I'm lucky enough to have seen this aircraft in real life.
This is why the us military is so dominant in the air. In the competition they had the F5, F16 & F18 to choose from while having the F4 f15 & FF14 in operation. Meanwhile the rest of Europe can only afford to develop one fighter and when it arrived decades late it's obsolete or worse if it's not up to the job they have to suck it up and use it.
The wing design from 1955 Swedish Draken.
60 years later US engineers copied the design 😂
7:24 wow, nice footage
You should take a look at the scimitar wing of the Handley Page Victor if you want an interestingly shaped wing
Can we all just take a sec to appreciate the Nasa livery on F-16 XL!