I got a 707 in December '19 and was simultaneously amazed and overwhelmed at the possibilities. I find that it gets less overwhelming with time; even with light use. You just kind of get used to it and I find myself liking it more and more. It really is an all in one electronic music tool; and now I wish I could buy one for all my friends. The frequent updates have been adding actually useful features too. Everyone who has any interest in making electronic music with knobs and sliders instead of a mouse should have one of these.
Wow, 1 product 2 studios 2 presenters review - very engaging and dynamic, hard to quit watching. Nick and Gaz - you are digging into something new in music tech review territory.
Funny how complacent we get with the way things are and then when they change we’re like....”well damn, why didn’t we do this sooner!” We give our legitimate need to socialize an feel connected waaaaaaay to much say.
For my purposes, this is the most comprehensive and capable piece of gear I have ever purchased over my 40 years of purchasing gear. And I’ve had tons of synths, drum machines, etc ranging in price from $0-$4000.
I love my MC707. Been a guitar/ bass player for 20 years plus and dabbled with synths and sequencing /daws before. But when I saw this - YUP. This is exactly what I need. Have had it almost a year and I’m still finding new cool things that I can do with it!
What a great review, gents! I have had my 707 for 2 weeks now and already loving it. Patch 1.72 adds a lot more to it that improves on an already great machine.
The MC707 makes a fantastic brain for your hardware as well, sequencing 8 different channels and will allow you to mix your hardware audio back into the MC707.
Totally agree! This instrument changed my whole approach to music now. And after 6 months I am still learning new ways to make music with it. Far exceeds my expectations 🙏😎
This is one of my fav SonicLabs! I really like the way you both made use of your camera angles to show the front and back and the distance zoom out and the closer. Gaz being a bit out of focus was fine, I just think you both really made the most of the pandemic to evolve the show even further. I think SonicState/SonicLab came out even better afterwards.
Question; Do you create whole songs, and play them live in sequence? (E.g. like Ableton or the older Grooveboxes?) Or more simply put; can you use this as a standalone for a seamless liveset without any other equipment if you wanted too? Thanks in advance!
There is a big feature you missed and that is you can change patches on a per clip basis for any track type, ie, up to 16 different patches per channel !
The 62 seconds total sampling time is a deal breaker indeed, I’m glad that you mentioned it and highlighted the issue, I only wish I had known before buying one then returning it a few days later once I discovered it myself a few months back. I had hoped by now it would have been fixed in the 2 firmware updates since, but I think the fact that it hasn’t means is a hardware issue. A shame because it means that after a few clips you don’t have enough space to continue, daft design.
What a step backwards - Roland MC-909 in 2003 had 25 minutes of sampling time, and could record any MIDI CC as automation (707 is limited to 4 parameters per track). Screen was a lot bigger on the 909 too - MC-707 screen is about the same as on my printer...
ohhh really?! I've been searching for a replacement to the ESX for what feels like my entire life!!! I'm literally most of the way through creating some kind of frankenstein set up made up of multiple midi controllers and Bitwig studio and all I want to do primarily with it is replicate the sequencing and tweaking aspect of the ESX/EMX just for the initial idea generation and then go on to do more complex programming from there. Now i've discovered this. So if I can do that from outside the DAW and stream multi channel audio in then great this gets me to the same point, but with the bonus that the hands on features will go an awful lot deeper than this cobbled together midi set up that i've made. I've been considering elektron analogue rytm because it was multi channel audio, poly end play looks great but no multi channel audio so I wrote that off. So this really could be the one. Hands on, intuitive, as intuitive as the ESX/EMX u think? And with a massive sound pallet, and get the audio straight into the DAW. I can't honestly think of anything else thats sitting in the same space as this in terms of features. It very well could be the one for me.
I do sampling by aux on my rc 505 looper but still carnt get it on my korg electribe 2 sampler not even sync in minilogue through (I must benot press in something I've got the midi lead
Really cool format, you both did well to keep talking over one another to a minimum. I can tell you let each other get your point across. The lack of latency is fab as well. Thanks guys!!!
I was sceptical of the format, but having watched it all, you two are great together. The length of time you've worked together shows in this remote review! I have been interested in the Zencore stuff and, after this, getting an MC101 just for the 4 part multi timbre zencore synth module seems worth while!
Alternatvely, they should add a system parameter to toggle between making [Shift] a hold button or a toggle button. The Shift button on Modal's Skulpt and Argon8 is a toggle button, making one-handed operation possible. There's a master multi-band compressor and EQ in addition to the master delay/chorus and reverb, and even an optional insert effect to go with those at the user's discretion, not including the insert effect and EQ per channel, plus EQ per oscillator in the individual synth patches.
It's already on order. Makes me think why are samplers and loopers still limited like this, when you can read/write in faster than realtime off a effing SD card? Roland seem to tier the market, even when they don't have a range of products to be protecting. It is like they are saying, we could give you two hours of audio sampling, but we may want to charge you £1,200 for that product in a year - so we won't. The only reason to get this is for Roland's track record on long-term hardware and software support ;)
Absolutely brilliant show with great repartee from both of you! You really should do more of these types of reviews - entertaining as well as informative.
21:50 Gaz, I wish it were like that, which seems logical, but, at least on my 707, the encoders are stuck on fine tuning and I pretty much have my finger on SHIFT all the time to get the values moving in larger increments. Take the filter cutoff as an example. I counted 92 knob turns to range from 0 to 1023. 92 knob turns. With SHIFT pressed this operation becomes faster, but the transitions are stepped. And I must hold the SHIFT button. Someone may suggest using the assignable control knobs. Great! Considering their range goes from 7 to 5 o'clock, when assigned to cutoff, or ADSR, they have a bipolar range (-64 to +63) where the action only happens between 7 and 11 o'clock (for the cutoff) or between 12 and 4 o'clock for decay or release for ex. I am forced to choose which 3 parameters I want to have easy access to, but they aren't even calibrated. I found that in settings you can offset the start point of the active range of the CTL knobs, but not scale it so that the knob becomes fully active all the way from left to right. It's nice that there are so many deep editing functions in the menu but for a product labelled as a 'groovebox', having quick access to ADSR, LFO and Filter should be a given. My take away from all this is that Roland's concept of groovebox has shifted from real time electronic music (= multitrack sequencer with hands-on control for live sound editing), to a loop launcher with insanely massive sound editing buried in the menu. Why? And what a pity! I really wanted to love this instrument. By the way, great reviews as usual!
Appears to be pretty fun but out of desk space. I would only probably use it as a sound module triggered by my deluge! All the stuff you're talking about what it's missing is found in deluge. Would be a great pair! Long as you want recording is readily available on deluge, and overdubbing!
hey Ron! As someone who still has some desk real estate, I definitely found myself thinking about how the 707 and the Deluge (which I have) might coexist and compliment each other nicely. Obviously looping and sampling is better handled with the D, but there is something about the way in which this is laid out knob, button and slider-wise and especially the screen that speaks to me.
@@maarzt you could record stuff from your 707 performances into Deluge or sequence from deluge to use 707 as a sound module which you can record in loops as long as you want. Deluge is really endless and inspiring.
You can also transfer and create patches from Zenology plugin back to the hardware very soon with Zenology pro. Also the MC-707 contains many of the sounds from Synth Legends pack, AX Edge keytar, Supernatural synth and XV-5080. Nice t-shirt Nick... you look well 👍
Damn Nick?! You really put a decent dark synth-core -ish backdrop together. I’m just happy to see a sort of 808 grid sequencer tat I can upload anything into and give my file the sequencer grid treatment and get on a pitch or another knob to vary my own phrases. 62 seconds stereo is HUGE once you’re considering the fact of that 808 grid sequencer and the treatments from its knobs. Considering that 62 seconds is a pretty obvious point that it’s meant to be for phrases, like the old sampling beat machines from not too long ago. You two have probably sold me on this one. Gaz, you would be held hostage at Roland if only you knew Japanese. I’ll probably wait it out until Christmas, in case they take your lesson and throw in an SSD hard drive to expand that recording memory into a SMC707+. They’ll probably wait now to release that, since it’s always after I buy the last one that the next iteration gets presented. Thanks again for sharing!!
This looks and sounds mighty impressive, I cannot wait to get my paws on one for a test drive. Brilliant review btw, you guys keep it up and you'll end up with a series on Netflix.
I've got one and for me the MC 707 is a live game changer. You can do complex, pro sounding dance music which isn't at all dependent on long samples. Plus, it's simple and uncomplicated enough to really enjoy using it live. A dawless set up in one box.
I have quite a few roland products: fa-06, TD30, jdxi, jx-03, jp-08, rc-505 system 1 and gaia sh01... I was looking for a central hub type product however on the capabilities i chose: Akai MPC One as my solution akai has loopers ( with over dub unlike mc707), 8 audio tracks, 128 midi tracks, cv/gate, extensive sampler with 4 layers, auto sampling for external midi instruments, big color touch display. mc707 is pretty good and i like the sound of the zen synth engine.
Sounds like it'd be great if in a future firmware given a minimum spec of SDcard inserted, they could then use the internal looper space as a cache for streaming from the card..
Well it's an "it'd be great" in a.. if Roland don't throw all this stuff out when they find their next buzzword laden gear to eulogise about.. although I did end up buying one last week >_
@@Wagoo they are very market speak with those buzzwords. ACB = actual circuit behaviour = just some old circuit modelling. Every 2 years they have the best ever engine, you white noise will be whiter than white. Makes you think that they are getting better and may be good one day, odd logical stance for marketing. How many engines can you make for the same boring sounds?
streaming from the card will require that the SD memory interface chip be fast enough for that, which is likely not the case in order to save on production costs
What’s most amazing is considering how future flung the octatrack really is. This MC707 is really trying to keep up with the octatrack but outside of that zen engine....hmmm. Having both together is a good idea.
I have one and think, all things considered, it’s probably the overall best instrument ever made. That said I mostly just play guitar these days and have only made a few songs with the 707. It’s just so powerful and usable
Thanks guy ,ill be walking on by on this .Phew nearly came a cropper and bought it .62 secs sample time ( laugh) ,no song mode ,no mix mode ,no arp . Of course they'll add all these features in an even more expensive follow up .
Great outro track Nick... sounds like OMD with a little YES thrown in. And I agree on the available recording time, let's hope Roland are listening and give us more as you suggest!
Gaz, so nice to finally hear someone else sees how Roland's digital synthesis goes all the way back to their first in the D-50 with the four layer/partial/tone (they've called it various things over the years) having the toggles for selecting the 4 for editing and toggles for on/off, I see that here and I see that all the way back to D-50 but nobody else seems to mention that. Similarly, yea I am enthused to see that some of the terminology like TVF is kept consistent - I grew up with a D-20 and was always perplexed by the those set of terms and such (thinking I'd never understand) only to learn they were just fancy new names for the same exact equivalents from analog subtractive sysnthesis. OMG 60 seconds max sampling!? As you say, this is ridiculous Roland crap just like usual, they shoot themselves in the foot, because in this day/age storage & RAM are inexpensive.....c'mon......
Great video - the virtual lab worked great. I know it's nit-picking, but I can't get over the bleached out LCD on this and the X/Xm. If Akai /NI can put OLEDs in their mini keyboards, it seems like a daft choice not to in higher-end gear.
I think the new Akai MPCs and the Force have this thing licked. Having four effects per drum sample, filter and amp envelopes and much more, plus another four effects for the whole drum track, four sendable effects buses with four effects each, master effects on all stereo sets of outputs, and a full suite of AIR effects and Akai's own effects that are quite good (though I'd appreciate 3rd party VSTs, or just some more). The upper bounds of sample time, audio tracks, looper time, and how many effects you run is only limited by the 2 gigs of RAM (some is taken up by the OS). Only 8 full audio tracks allowed per project, but that is easily worked around by loading audio to drum programs and triggering them that way... Plus almost everything can be automated, as far as I've tried so far. And then the plugins-even if they're definitely not the best softsynths I've ever used-some really good sounds can be pulled out of them with some effort. Besides, you can just multi-sample any synthesizer and make a "keygroup" playable on a keyboard. I have a full collection of a dozen or more gigs of voices from classic synths sampled across several octaves that someone shared to the community. You can also install up to a 1 terabyte SSD to keep all your samples on. Now to be fair, Akai have been bad with updating the firmware, especially with the Force that seems to be their red-headed stepchild of flagship products, and the UI is a bit clunky at times until you get used to it, but even if they haven't met their full potential, I think they beat this mc-707 hands down. I've been using the Force for about 3 months now, and loading 64 samples with different effects and pitches on just one set of 8x8 pads on one drum program... up to 128 different programs, plugins, audio tracks, loopers, etc all together... I can't go back to these more basic groovebox/sampler formats again. I can basically make a full completed track out of the box, even with a basic mastering chain if I want. *edit: I forgot to mention CV outputs on some of the boxes.* TL;DR Akai I think is doing a better job.
As with all products, do your research for what works best for you. The Deluge is also another FANTASTIC option with an incredible and intuitive workflow. The Black Box by 1010music is amazing as well.
Try the "Akai Force" you can record long tracks long loop times and overdub. It also has a lot of fx's and a 7 inch colour screen which is much more enjoyable to view then this small screen it also has two inputs for your instruments and cv.
loving the south west massive attack vibes you have created on that 707. that vibe is in your veins down there, right? also - the duo of reviewers format works well too imo, thanks.
Great review guys! I agree. The MC-707 is a beast but if they could just overcome the 60 second limit (I, too, read about the 12 minutes of mono/6 minutes of stereo record time) that seems self-imposed, this groovebox would be stellar!
Totally agree with your overall review and appreciate the demo/insight. After working with my 707 for a few weeks now I totally agree with the frustration regarding the insanely limited sample time. Sure, there is plenty of other features that keep this unit useful and interesting working within it's limitations, and It's encouraging that Roland keeps providing useful firmware updates.... but as of 1.8 in 2023, sadly still no change on this severe limitation to "global domination".
You guys should really try the Akai Force, same idea, of everything in one unit, but it has way more capacity, you can put an ssd drive inside, you sequence tons of stuff for in the unit itself, plus tons of midi tracks for external gear. I love Roland gear, but since I got the Force, it changed my whole workflow, the Force is now the center piece of my studio. And, it's self contained but it can also control Ableton Live at the same time, it's unbelievable, I love it.
@@maccagrabme But on the Force, sampling is better, the storage is better, you have way more midi tracks to control all of your gear, not just 11 channels or whatever it was. But, regardless, I'm not bashing the 707, I might get one of them too, I was just saying, they were complaining about the sampling time, ect.. well, the Force does not have such small restrictions, and it can control your whole studio basically. And the synth engine isn't bad either, but I have tons of synths I use anyway, which I can sample into the Force.
Agree it's really nearly the dream machine. For me the main frustration was that there's no way to store your own patches outside of a project. Also no instant scene/clip change.
@@roberthoffmeister oh wow, that blows however, did you ever mess with the pad sensitivity in system settings? I actually cranked that up in my 707's settings, and there are three parameters that govern drum pad sensitivity
I’ve got mine sending from the reverb , which it lets you mute , and then that goes to my iPad Pro and can have massive send and return effects chains , then you can automate the send. Just wish it had a proper sampler
I'm laughing at every comment complaining about the 62 seconds of sample time. These people obviously don't know how to use a DAW with MC707 to get as much time as they want!! 🤣✌️
Rg the SHIFT button - the only and very important case when I’m appreciating the position is launching scenes 5-8, maybe that’s the reason why to keep it upper left
10:15 Yes, not quite a "looper"! And it could have been. (I wonder if it could be updated in software?) I'm a constant user of their RC505 Looper - so straightforward, easy to use! The new MC's are so powerful, but not "easy", everything seems to take 1-2 steps more than it could.
Great video of a seemingly very cool product. High on my wishlist atleast. But it's beyond me why they skimp on memory. It is so cheap these days, and it's even cheaper for companies like them. Heck, they could just include slots and support for basic PC RAM and SSDs, for people wanting to upgrade it.
They need to make a successor to the MV series of drum machine workstations (MV-8000 & MV-8800).Hopefully Roland is practicing on making a successor to the MV-8000 or MV-8800 with this machine.
It looks good but is sill not as unrestricted as a Deluge, for example and the menu diving looks cumbersome. The Deluge streams everything to and from the SD card and so the only limitations on recording time is the size of your storage card. The only limitation on the number of clips that can be played simultaneously is the CPU but it takes a lot to get to the point where it is struggling! Having only a tiny segment type display actually makes it very intuitive and changing parameters is very easy. I considered the MC-707 but the Deluge just seems to be a more complete product.
I've got both. They both excel at different things. If you are working with external hardware, the MC707 offers a lot of audio/midi routing options not available on the Deluge, whereas the Deluge can sample with no limit and you aren't locked into 8 measures of 4/4.
@@Arperture yes I own the Deluge for a few months, love it and still learning, however I did find myself thinking - hmmm, the Deluge AND the 707. This is laid out so nicely (the display and shortcut system on the Deluge is still not inviting to me personally, though I imagine that might improve with time and effort) Sounds like you've discovered the combination of the two makes sense. Would love to hear more.
@@Arperture updates. Will you get more that one buggy firmware update off Roland? Will you still have access to subscribe to that Zencore bull in 5 years. It is all good for now - but you will loose functionality as the Deluge grows.
excellent video.. yeh the looper time is restrictive, though you do have 12mins. mono/6mins. stereo for sample loading on to a drum pad/kit, overall it's pretty brilliant and there are hints that a song mode maybe coming too in a firmware update.
The audio insert option they added was what made it a perfect tool for me. I can run 2 mono synths and a stereo keyboard into it with the onboard effects, still have 5 channels (or 6 if I use one channel for the monos) for everything else and don't even need to bring a mixer.
Sample time is actually 12 mono minutes, 6 stereo, but only 62s allocated to the looper. So if you're using samples outside of the looper, you have a lot more space.
@@vinceriley - untill you divide it by 8 across 4 bars at 80bpm. The point is, no reason to limit it. Time should be as big as your SD card... It is 2020 FFS.
Hey Nick! I know it's an old video. I recently got an mc-101. I was asking myself about the mute states that you mentioned are saved with scenes in the mc-707(would be the most logical and useful approach). Is this true? Because in the mc-101 the mute states are saved with the clips which is an absolutely stupid design decision. We could have had so much more if the mutes(drum pad) were saved in the scenes..
Hi i wonder if you could help please ? I'm not a musician but i am interested in creating my own electronic music and my research has dug up 2 choices - the Roland MC 707 and the Uno Synth Pro Desktop and price consideration to one side what would you recommend ? I've found the M-Audio Oxygen Pro Mini 32 key midi which is also compact, as space is a consideration, and that would give me a keypad and touch pad option so wondered if you could throw any light on the subject for me ? Just want to have a bit of fun with it ( the MC 707 looks like it could be more suited to a non musician ) but i'm interested in your view and would much appreciate some light on the matter !
Great review, but once again Roland hobbles a great machine by limiting something that today's technology should easily be able to take care of. I'm of course referring to the sampling time. Every time I buy a Roland product they have hobbled something, even in a flagship product. Not knocking Roland because I love their products, but I often see limits that don't gel with current technology. This is not a fully-fledged studio in a box but surely we can have as much sampling time as memory (or rather, storage) allows? Another simple example is limiting the System 8 to 64 patches. Why? It would not take much to allow scrolling through multiple banks of 64 patches. Anyway I digress, this is still an amazing machine.
Roland's limitations are typically head-scratchers. No reasoning behind them at all. I at least understand the type of limitations that force differentiation, and force buying another product, but that doesn't make sense here with the 707 or the typical Roland insufficient patch memory problem (that you mentioned)..... that even occurs on their flagships. I mean....240 user scenes on the Fantom? Especially when each edit or variation of a scene has to be stored separately. Complete nonsense.
I mean this is really an issue with most companies in this sector. Elektron limits their boxes like crazy too(how can the Digitakt have a bigger pitch range than the Octatrack?). And don't get me started on Korg's Volca series.
It is like the engineering team made the perfect runner, but then the marketing team did a Misery on it's ankles. I hope that this in that marketing team don't have a lot of children - this is the good one I didn't impair physically of mentally.
@@HotStrange akai force...they are not much more...but there are pros n cons...imho mc707 has better synth engine but force well.....its awesome, much larger memory and now only about £100 more?
Hey love ur videos loved this one too it would be rather nice if Roland put out a mc 909 and so on and do u have music on bandcamp iTunes etc cheers and be safe
So internally there is a 20 channel I/o mixer they can send and receive? so you could stream live mixes from your computer to a USB stick stereo? But not to the SD card? How does the mixer run through the actual physical unit? Is a 62 seconds sampling time global or per track?
I got a 707 in December '19 and was simultaneously amazed and overwhelmed at the possibilities. I find that it gets less overwhelming with time; even with light use. You just kind of get used to it and I find myself liking it more and more. It really is an all in one electronic music tool; and now I wish I could buy one for all my friends. The frequent updates have been adding actually useful features too. Everyone who has any interest in making electronic music with knobs and sliders instead of a mouse should have one of these.
Wow, 1 product 2 studios 2 presenters review - very engaging and dynamic, hard to quit watching. Nick and Gaz - you are digging into something new in music tech review territory.
I must say I absolutely loved the format of this review. From a punter point of view, I would take this over some noisy Namm videos any day.
Yes and yes. I really do not enjoy NAMM and other show floor videos.
I hate going to NAMM and don’t enjoy the videos
Funny how complacent we get with the way things are and then when they change we’re like....”well damn, why didn’t we do this sooner!” We give our legitimate need to socialize an feel connected waaaaaaay to much say.
Absolutely love this video. My 707 and TR-8S setup is almost all I need. Plus, the combo of Nick and Gaz is all that is needed for a great review.
I flipping love my 707. I’m a novice to making music and I was making a track in no time. Absolutely awesome device.
Great review. You guys did miss a pretty big feature in my opinion. You can change synth patches on a per clip basis for the entire track.
For my purposes, this is the most comprehensive and capable piece of gear I have ever purchased over my 40 years of purchasing gear. And I’ve had tons of synths, drum machines, etc ranging in price from $0-$4000.
I love my MC707.
Been a guitar/ bass player for 20 years plus and dabbled with synths and sequencing /daws before. But when I saw this - YUP. This is exactly what I need. Have had it almost a year and I’m still finding new cool things that I can do with it!
What a great review, gents! I have had my 707 for 2 weeks now and already loving it. Patch 1.72 adds a lot more to it that improves on an already great machine.
This dual remote-review format is great. The best thing to come out of COVID
The MC707 makes a fantastic brain for your hardware as well, sequencing 8 different channels and will allow you to mix your hardware audio back into the MC707.
This turned out to be the best machine Roland has made in a while
Totally agree! This instrument changed my whole approach to music now. And after 6 months I am still learning new ways to make music with it. Far exceeds my expectations 🙏😎
Along with the TR8s imo
Forget COVID, this kind of format works so well you should consider using it all the time.
This is one of my fav SonicLabs! I really like the way you both made use of your camera angles to show the front and back and the distance zoom out and the closer. Gaz being a bit out of focus was fine, I just think you both really made the most of the pandemic to evolve the show even further. I think SonicState/SonicLab came out even better afterwards.
Such a game changer here. Roland listened and really pushed some boundaries with the 707. I love it for playing live Techno 👍😎🇦🇺
Question; Do you create whole songs, and play them live in sequence? (E.g. like Ableton or the older Grooveboxes?)
Or more simply put; can you use this as a standalone for a seamless liveset without any other equipment if you wanted too?
Thanks in advance!
There is a big feature you missed and that is you can change patches on a per clip basis for any track type, ie, up to 16 different patches per channel !
it is a real shame Roland didn't hype that feature a lot more
@@jonowise Sounds like most people use it that way anyway.
The 62 seconds total sampling time is a deal breaker indeed, I’m glad that you mentioned it and highlighted the issue, I only wish I had known before buying one then returning it a few days later once I discovered it myself a few months back. I had hoped by now it would have been fixed in the 2 firmware updates since, but I think the fact that it hasn’t means is a hardware issue. A shame because it means that after a few clips you don’t have enough space to continue, daft design.
What a step backwards - Roland MC-909 in 2003 had 25 minutes of sampling time, and could record any MIDI CC as automation (707 is limited to 4 parameters per track). Screen was a lot bigger on the 909 too - MC-707 screen is about the same as on my printer...
Dont care what negative people say, but Roland is such incredible company. They really bring out quality stuff.
Marcusmiller $1000 machine with limited sampling, only 8 track, tiny oled screen, etc.... Yeah that’s incredible alright 🤣
This is my first groovebox since the Korg EMX. It really fills all my needs.
ohhh really?! I've been searching for a replacement to the ESX for what feels like my entire life!!! I'm literally most of the way through creating some kind of frankenstein set up made up of multiple midi controllers and Bitwig studio and all I want to do primarily with it is replicate the sequencing and tweaking aspect of the ESX/EMX just for the initial idea generation and then go on to do more complex programming from there. Now i've discovered this. So if I can do that from outside the DAW and stream multi channel audio in then great this gets me to the same point, but with the bonus that the hands on features will go an awful lot deeper than this cobbled together midi set up that i've made. I've been considering elektron analogue rytm because it was multi channel audio, poly end play looks great but no multi channel audio so I wrote that off. So this really could be the one. Hands on, intuitive, as intuitive as the ESX/EMX u think? And with a massive sound pallet, and get the audio straight into the DAW. I can't honestly think of anything else thats sitting in the same space as this in terms of features. It very well could be the one for me.
I do sampling by aux on my rc 505 looper but still carnt get it on my korg electribe 2 sampler not even sync in minilogue through (I must benot press in something I've got the midi lead
Really cool format, you both did well to keep talking over one another to a minimum. I can tell you let each other get your point across. The lack of latency is fab as well. Thanks guys!!!
I was sceptical of the format, but having watched it all, you two are great together. The length of time you've worked together shows in this remote review! I have been interested in the Zencore stuff and, after this, getting an MC101 just for the 4 part multi timbre zencore synth module seems worth while!
Since this video more features have been added: Arpeggiator, Generic USB Driver (for ipads etc) and a random tone generator. Good stuff!!!
How does it handle live looping though? I know it can be brains, but can it control MIDI cc like the Octatrack?
Alternatvely, they should add a system parameter to toggle between making [Shift] a hold button or a toggle button. The Shift button on Modal's Skulpt and Argon8 is a toggle button, making one-handed operation possible.
There's a master multi-band compressor and EQ in addition to the master delay/chorus and reverb, and even an optional insert effect to go with those at the user's discretion, not including the insert effect and EQ per channel, plus EQ per oscillator in the individual synth patches.
I don’t need it but I want it. Nice review guys.
You Were Born To Sing With The Guitar I see. That makes sense.
@You Were Born To Sing With The Guitar 😐 Why the Bill Gates hate?
"A very very deep unit" is the pull quote from Gaz.
Scatter also gives essentially two more multi effects to chain , you can even bypass the scatter and just have the two extra effects.
Synthstrom Deluge tickles your wish list fellas.
True, the 1010 Blackbox also in some respects. Particularly as a sampler.
It's already on order. Makes me think why are samplers and loopers still limited like this, when you can read/write in faster than realtime off a effing SD card? Roland seem to tier the market, even when they don't have a range of products to be protecting. It is like they are saying, we could give you two hours of audio sampling, but we may want to charge you £1,200 for that product in a year - so we won't. The only reason to get this is for Roland's track record on long-term hardware and software support ;)
@@watercolourmark they're a bizarre company, half in the future and half up their own arses
Absolutely brilliant show with great repartee from both of you! You really should do more of these types of reviews - entertaining as well as informative.
That was a great discussion. I really enjoy the back-and-forth style.
Great review ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ I love the fact that your review is very honest and genuine highlighting all flaws too AWESOME 👌🙏🏻
21:50 Gaz, I wish it were like that, which seems logical, but, at least on my 707, the encoders are stuck on fine tuning and I pretty much have my finger on SHIFT all the time to get the values moving in larger increments. Take the filter cutoff as an example. I counted 92 knob turns to range from 0 to 1023. 92 knob turns. With SHIFT pressed this operation becomes faster, but the transitions are stepped. And I must hold the SHIFT button. Someone may suggest using the assignable control knobs. Great! Considering their range goes from 7 to 5 o'clock, when assigned to cutoff, or ADSR, they have a bipolar range (-64 to +63) where the action only happens between 7 and 11 o'clock (for the cutoff) or between 12 and 4 o'clock for decay or release for ex. I am forced to choose which 3 parameters I want to have easy access to, but they aren't even calibrated. I found that in settings you can offset the start point of the active range of the CTL knobs, but not scale it so that the knob becomes fully active all the way from left to right. It's nice that there are so many deep editing functions in the menu but for a product labelled as a 'groovebox', having quick access to ADSR, LFO and Filter should be a given.
My take away from all this is that Roland's concept of groovebox has shifted from real time electronic music (= multitrack sequencer with hands-on control for live sound editing), to a loop launcher with insanely massive sound editing buried in the menu. Why? And what a pity! I really wanted to love this instrument.
By the way, great reviews as usual!
Appears to be pretty fun but out of desk space. I would only probably use it as a sound module triggered by my deluge! All the stuff you're talking about what it's missing is found in deluge. Would be a great pair! Long as you want recording is readily available on deluge, and overdubbing!
hey Ron! As someone who still has some desk real estate, I definitely found myself thinking about how the 707 and the Deluge (which I have) might coexist and compliment each other nicely. Obviously looping and sampling is better handled with the D, but there is something about the way in which this is laid out knob, button and slider-wise and especially the screen that speaks to me.
@@maarzt you could record stuff from your 707 performances into Deluge or sequence from deluge to use 707 as a sound module which you can record in loops as long as you want. Deluge is really endless and inspiring.
A year later I end up buying this lol we will see how I like it
amazing unit, Rolands best release in years, great review guys
Excellent format , and i hope youll stick to it in the future - you two ARE the ..."Real" backbone of Sonic Lab ! - Yay ! 😁👍🏻
You can also transfer and create patches from Zenology plugin back to the hardware very soon with Zenology pro. Also the MC-707 contains many of the sounds from Synth Legends pack, AX Edge keytar, Supernatural synth and XV-5080. Nice t-shirt Nick... you look well 👍
Relaxed and still FULL OF VALUABLE INFORMATION, thanks guys
Best SONIC LAB review ever - thank you very much!!
Damn Nick?! You really put a decent dark synth-core -ish backdrop together. I’m just happy to see a sort of 808 grid sequencer tat I can upload anything into and give my file the sequencer grid treatment and get on a pitch or another knob to vary my own phrases. 62 seconds stereo is HUGE once you’re considering the fact of that 808 grid sequencer and the treatments from its knobs. Considering that 62 seconds is a pretty obvious point that it’s meant to be for phrases, like the old sampling beat machines from not too long ago. You two have probably sold me on this one. Gaz, you would be held hostage at Roland if only you knew Japanese. I’ll probably wait it out until Christmas, in case they take your lesson and throw in an SSD hard drive to expand that recording memory into a SMC707+. They’ll probably wait now to release that, since it’s always after I buy the last one that the next iteration gets presented. Thanks again for sharing!!
This mirrors my feelings: great machine, sounds good, fun to play, intuitive to use, NEEDS BETTER LOOPER FUNCTIONS!
I need neighbors like you two. GREAT review!
This looks and sounds mighty impressive, I cannot wait to get my paws on one for a test drive.
Brilliant review btw, you guys keep it up and you'll end up with a series on Netflix.
You lovely people! Forgot to mention the customizable LFO function!!!! 4 dubsteppers with patience ;)
I've got one and for me the MC 707 is a live game changer. You can do complex, pro sounding dance music which isn't at all dependent on long samples. Plus, it's simple and uncomplicated enough to really enjoy using it live. A dawless set up in one box.
DAWless setup in one Roland DAW box? XD
@@allisterwhitehead right, so you had said that there's a lack of a digital audio workstation by using one of Roland's digital audio workstations?
:^)
@@allisterwhitehead if you don't care for Roland DAWs, why are you posting in the comments section of a video review about a Roland DAW?
I have quite a few roland products: fa-06, TD30, jdxi, jx-03, jp-08, rc-505 system 1 and gaia sh01...
I was looking for a central hub type product however on the capabilities i chose:
Akai MPC One as my solution
akai has loopers ( with over dub unlike mc707), 8 audio tracks, 128 midi tracks, cv/gate, extensive sampler with 4 layers, auto sampling for external midi instruments, big color touch display.
mc707 is pretty good and i like the sound of the zen synth engine.
16:28 I was like "NOOOO" and this is how the MPC beats MC 707....too bad!
@@liothomasart also.. 8 tracks max.. what is this 1970's? :) re mc 707 ( my fa-06 does 16 tracks )
cresshead my Modx has 16 tracks 😂 I think the MPC got more?
@@liothomasart 128 tracks on the mpc
Sounds like it'd be great if in a future firmware given a minimum spec of SDcard inserted, they could then use the internal looper space as a cache for streaming from the card..
Ahhh, you think Roland is going to update the firmware. I wouldn't hold your breath on that update.
Well it's an "it'd be great" in a.. if Roland don't throw all this stuff out when they find their next buzzword laden gear to eulogise about.. although I did end up buying one last week >_
@@Wagoo they are very market speak with those buzzwords. ACB = actual circuit behaviour = just some old circuit modelling. Every 2 years they have the best ever engine, you white noise will be whiter than white. Makes you think that they are getting better and may be good one day, odd logical stance for marketing. How many engines can you make for the same boring sounds?
streaming from the card will require that the SD memory interface chip be fast enough for that, which is likely not the case in order to save on production costs
What’s most amazing is considering how future flung the octatrack really is. This MC707 is really trying to keep up with the octatrack but outside of that zen engine....hmmm. Having both together is a good idea.
I have one and think, all things considered, it’s probably the overall best instrument ever made.
That said I mostly just play guitar these days and have only made a few songs with the 707.
It’s just so powerful and usable
That pretty big words...i guess ill have to check it out in my local music shop,- ;-)
Thanks guy ,ill be walking on by on this .Phew nearly came a cropper and bought it .62 secs sample time ( laugh) ,no song mode ,no mix mode ,no arp . Of course they'll add all these features in an even more expensive follow up .
Great outro track Nick... sounds like OMD with a little YES thrown in. And I agree on the available recording time, let's hope Roland are listening and give us more as you suggest!
Gaz, so nice to finally hear someone else sees how Roland's digital synthesis goes all the way back to their first in the D-50 with the four layer/partial/tone (they've called it various things over the years) having the toggles for selecting the 4 for editing and toggles for on/off, I see that here and I see that all the way back to D-50 but nobody else seems to mention that. Similarly, yea I am enthused to see that some of the terminology like TVF is kept consistent - I grew up with a D-20 and was always perplexed by the those set of terms and such (thinking I'd never understand) only to learn they were just fancy new names for the same exact equivalents from analog subtractive sysnthesis. OMG 60 seconds max sampling!? As you say, this is ridiculous Roland crap just like usual, they shoot themselves in the foot, because in this day/age storage & RAM are inexpensive.....c'mon......
Great video - the virtual lab worked great. I know it's nit-picking, but I can't get over the bleached out LCD on this and the X/Xm. If Akai /NI can put OLEDs in their mini keyboards, it seems like a daft choice not to in higher-end gear.
Dont know if this is true but I heard that LCDs have more longevity and are more reliable than OLEDs right now
@Johnny Fishfingers Yup. Well said.
I think the new Akai MPCs and the Force have this thing licked.
Having four effects per drum sample, filter and amp envelopes and much more, plus another four effects for the whole drum track, four sendable effects buses with four effects each, master effects on all stereo sets of outputs, and a full suite of AIR effects and Akai's own effects that are quite good (though I'd appreciate 3rd party VSTs, or just some more).
The upper bounds of sample time, audio tracks, looper time, and how many effects you run is only limited by the 2 gigs of RAM (some is taken up by the OS). Only 8 full audio tracks allowed per project, but that is easily worked around by loading audio to drum programs and triggering them that way... Plus almost everything can be automated, as far as I've tried so far.
And then the plugins-even if they're definitely not the best softsynths I've ever used-some really good sounds can be pulled out of them with some effort. Besides, you can just multi-sample any synthesizer and make a "keygroup" playable on a keyboard. I have a full collection of a dozen or more gigs of voices from classic synths sampled across several octaves that someone shared to the community.
You can also install up to a 1 terabyte SSD to keep all your samples on.
Now to be fair, Akai have been bad with updating the firmware, especially with the Force that seems to be their red-headed stepchild of flagship products, and the UI is a bit clunky at times until you get used to it, but even if they haven't met their full potential, I think they beat this mc-707 hands down.
I've been using the Force for about 3 months now, and loading 64 samples with different effects and pitches on just one set of 8x8 pads on one drum program... up to 128 different programs, plugins, audio tracks, loopers, etc all together... I can't go back to these more basic groovebox/sampler formats again. I can basically make a full completed track out of the box, even with a basic mastering chain if I want.
*edit: I forgot to mention CV outputs on some of the boxes.*
TL;DR Akai I think is doing a better job.
As with all products, do your research for what works best for you. The Deluge is also another FANTASTIC option with an incredible and intuitive workflow. The Black Box by 1010music is amazing as well.
Proper honest reviews.
Try the "Akai Force" you can record long tracks long loop times and overdub. It also has a lot of fx's and a 7 inch colour screen which is much more enjoyable to view then this small screen it also has two inputs for your instruments and cv.
I have a Akai Force and will be linking my MC-707 to it through MIDI. It'll be a blast!
loving the south west massive attack vibes you have created on that 707. that vibe is in your veins down there, right? also - the duo of reviewers format works well too imo, thanks.
The zooming and editing of the sample does indeed look Digitaktish but the old Roland SP-606 was very similar as well.
It frustrates me why these machines have such short sample time. In this day and age they should all be able to play multiple full length songs.
It's mind blowing, considering how cheap memory is now.
What is the sample time on MC707?
I couldn't even use all sample slots on a project of the Circuit Rhythm by just recording normal one shot length samples. Ridiculous.
Great review guys! I agree. The MC-707 is a beast but if they could just overcome the 60 second limit (I, too, read about the 12 minutes of mono/6 minutes of stereo record time) that seems self-imposed, this groovebox would be stellar!
Totally agree with your overall review and appreciate the demo/insight. After working with my 707 for a few weeks now I totally agree with the frustration regarding the insanely limited sample time. Sure, there is plenty of other features that keep this unit useful and interesting working within it's limitations, and It's encouraging that Roland keeps providing useful firmware updates.... but as of 1.8 in 2023, sadly still no change on this severe limitation to "global domination".
This machine is very difficult ... but for professional musicians i mean old electronic fighters like this mans in video it's the holy grail! yehh
You guys should really try the Akai Force, same idea, of everything in one unit, but it has way more capacity, you can put an ssd drive inside, you sequence tons of stuff for in the unit itself, plus tons of midi tracks for external gear. I love Roland gear, but since I got the Force, it changed my whole workflow, the Force is now the center piece of my studio. And, it's self contained but it can also control Ableton Live at the same time, it's unbelievable, I love it.
But the synth engine on this is way better.
@@maccagrabme But on the Force, sampling is better, the storage is better, you have way more midi tracks to control all of your gear, not just 11 channels or whatever it was. But, regardless, I'm not bashing the 707, I might get one of them too, I was just saying, they were complaining about the sampling time, ect.. well, the Force does not have such small restrictions, and it can control your whole studio basically. And the synth engine isn't bad either, but I have tons of synths I use anyway, which I can sample into the Force.
The idea of building clips (patches) is amazing !! - Its like running ableton inside....But i really wish it has at least 32 step sequencer
I think the limit of 1 clip is up to 128 steps.
Cheers guys, great review. Most appreciated. :)
Agree it's really nearly the dream machine. For me the main frustration was that there's no way to store your own patches outside of a project. Also no instant scene/clip change.
Simon Sherbourne that is a step backwards, even the 505 did allow that.
Looking forward to receiving my TR8S this week. ^_^
Luke Lendrum I want to upgrade my tr8
@@markchristopher2signal2 to what?
TR8s.
@@markchristopher2signal2 do it!
Luke Lendrum what made u choose this than MC707
Love the 101. One thing that surprised me is how good the pad sounds are for such a tiny unit.
ir's not $500 for nothing
The pads on the 101 (hardware) are worse than on the 707. They respond pretty sluggish... returned it after 1 week.
@@roberthoffmeister oh wow, that blows
however, did you ever mess with the pad sensitivity in system settings? I actually cranked that up in my 707's settings, and there are three parameters that govern drum pad sensitivity
@@Jason75913 the Roland sales rep at my local store (Roland employee), admitted the difference between 101 and 707... I had both and returned thr 101
Gonna hook this up with a 1010Blackbox + digitakt and a keystep and be done with my liveset.
I’ve got mine sending from the reverb , which it lets you mute , and then that goes to my iPad Pro and can have massive send and return effects chains , then you can automate the send.
Just wish it had a proper sampler
I'm laughing at every comment complaining about the 62 seconds of sample time. These people obviously don't know how to use a DAW with MC707 to get as much time as they want!! 🤣✌️
In 5 years of videos on sonic state I’ve never seen them really happy with a product 😂
Rg the SHIFT button - the only and very important case when I’m appreciating the position is launching scenes 5-8, maybe that’s the reason why to keep it upper left
10:15 Yes, not quite a "looper"! And it could have been. (I wonder if it could be updated in software?) I'm a constant user of their RC505 Looper - so straightforward, easy to use! The new MC's are so powerful, but not "easy", everything seems to take 1-2 steps more than it could.
62 second sample time actually isn't that bad if you're producing dance music. you could go up to 32 bar looping and not hit 62 seconds. just saying
Great video of a seemingly very cool product. High on my wishlist atleast.
But it's beyond me why they skimp on memory. It is so cheap these days, and it's even cheaper for companies like them. Heck, they could just include slots and support for basic PC RAM and SSDs, for people wanting to upgrade it.
Probability functionality is almost a given with new gen grooveboxes - really hope it is included in 1.8 update!
They need to make a successor to the MV series of drum machine workstations (MV-8000 & MV-8800).Hopefully Roland is practicing on making a successor to the MV-8000 or MV-8800 with this machine.
I was just thinking this is like a modern take on the MV-30
It looks good but is sill not as unrestricted as a Deluge, for example and the menu diving looks cumbersome. The Deluge streams everything to and from the SD card and so the only limitations on recording time is the size of your storage card. The only limitation on the number of clips that can be played simultaneously is the CPU but it takes a lot to get to the point where it is struggling! Having only a tiny segment type display actually makes it very intuitive and changing parameters is very easy.
I considered the MC-707 but the Deluge just seems to be a more complete product.
I've got both. They both excel at different things. If you are working with external hardware, the MC707 offers a lot of audio/midi routing options not available on the Deluge, whereas the Deluge can sample with no limit and you aren't locked into 8 measures of 4/4.
@@Arperture yes I own the Deluge for a few months, love it and still learning, however I did find myself thinking - hmmm, the Deluge AND the 707. This is laid out so nicely (the display and shortcut system on the Deluge is still not inviting to me personally, though I imagine that might improve with time and effort) Sounds like you've discovered the combination of the two makes sense. Would love to hear more.
@@Arperture plus I think Id love having access to all those Roland-y sounds, zen core etc. I own no Roland equipment.
@@Arperture updates. Will you get more that one buggy firmware update off Roland? Will you still have access to subscribe to that Zencore bull in 5 years. It is all good for now - but you will loose functionality as the Deluge grows.
Just checking in, did Roland address the looper time limitation?
excellent video.. yeh the looper time is restrictive, though you do have 12mins. mono/6mins. stereo for sample loading on to a drum pad/kit, overall it's pretty brilliant and there are hints that a song mode maybe coming too in a firmware update.
Nick, it sounds like your dream machine is an Akai Force? Most of your complaints are solved in the Force, although it has its own limitations.
A beautiful groovebox but the constant product plug to ableton is silly considering NI Maschine has been this way for a decade.
MEL GIBSON!
Nice jam outro, as always x
The problem with sampling-time is, that Roland still want so sell their RC-series loopers...
I think I am done with chasing repairs on vintage gear. MC-707 really solidified my decision.
Its kind of classic sounds do it all
The audio insert option they added was what made it a perfect tool for me.
I can run 2 mono synths and a stereo keyboard into it with the onboard effects, still have 5 channels (or 6 if I use one channel for the monos) for everything else and don't even need to bring a mixer.
Does that kill the internal sound of the track or can you layer the internal and external sound if you want?
Nice direction by Nick B. 😊
Love this little box :)
If i had to describe this, i would call it performance integra
no SuperNatural Acoustic sounds or engine, though
@@Jason75913 yeah its a bit letdown
Does it include srx cards now?
Sample time is actually 12 mono minutes, 6 stereo, but only 62s allocated to the looper. So if you're using samples outside of the looper, you have a lot more space.
If you watch a clock for 62s.. its way more than most people should need... else I'll dust off the Z4.
@@vinceriley - untill you divide it by 8 across 4 bars at 80bpm. The point is, no reason to limit it. Time should be as big as your SD card... It is 2020 FFS.
Hey Nick! I know it's an old video. I recently got an mc-101. I was asking myself about the mute states that you mentioned are saved with scenes in the mc-707(would be the most logical and useful approach). Is this true? Because in the mc-101 the mute states are saved with the clips which is an absolutely stupid design decision. We could have had so much more if the mutes(drum pad) were saved in the scenes..
Great review, but please tell me - 3000 sounds, can you save patches to a favourite folder?
I don’t know but it seems like users are hopeful that Roland updates the patch and sample options in the next update
I really hope there’s a computer or iPad editor for this.
Hi i wonder if you could help please ? I'm not a musician but i am interested in creating my own electronic music and my research has dug up 2 choices - the Roland MC 707 and the Uno Synth Pro Desktop and price consideration to one side what would you recommend ? I've found the M-Audio Oxygen Pro Mini 32 key midi which is also compact, as space is a consideration, and that would give me a keypad and touch pad option so wondered if you could throw any light on the subject for me ? Just want to have a bit of fun with it ( the MC 707 looks like it could be more suited to a non musician ) but i'm interested in your view and would much appreciate some light on the matter !
Great review, but once again Roland hobbles a great machine by limiting something that today's technology should easily be able to take care of. I'm of course referring to the sampling time. Every time I buy a Roland product they have hobbled something, even in a flagship product. Not knocking Roland because I love their products, but I often see limits that don't gel with current technology. This is not a fully-fledged studio in a box but surely we can have as much sampling time as memory (or rather, storage) allows? Another simple example is limiting the System 8 to 64 patches. Why? It would not take much to allow scrolling through multiple banks of 64 patches. Anyway I digress, this is still an amazing machine.
Roland's limitations are typically head-scratchers. No reasoning behind them at all. I at least understand the type of limitations that force differentiation, and force buying another product, but that doesn't make sense here with the 707 or the typical Roland insufficient patch memory problem (that you mentioned)..... that even occurs on their flagships. I mean....240 user scenes on the Fantom? Especially when each edit or variation of a scene has to be stored separately. Complete nonsense.
@@aceofdub Yeah. It isn't the engineers, it is the marketers implementing these decisions.
I mean this is really an issue with most companies in this sector. Elektron limits their boxes like crazy too(how can the Digitakt have a bigger pitch range than the Octatrack?). And don't get me started on Korg's Volca series.
It is like the engineering team made the perfect runner, but then the marketing team did a Misery on it's ankles. I hope that this in that marketing team don't have a lot of children - this is the good one I didn't impair physically of mentally.
Yes awesome review. I learned a lot from the presentation. How can I set it up so I can jam and record a guitar right into the loop?
Î think it should just plug straight in, but otherwise if you have a guitar FX or amp line out should do it
Thanks both! Yeah great box...but ...mmm well I opted for different choice.
What did you go for?
@@HotStrange akai force...they are not much more...but there are pros n cons...imho mc707 has better synth engine but force well.....its awesome, much larger memory and now only about £100 more?
Hey love ur videos loved this one too it would be rather nice if Roland put out a mc 909 and so on and do u have music on bandcamp iTunes etc cheers and be safe
So internally there is a 20 channel I/o mixer they can send and receive? so you could stream live mixes from your computer to a USB stick stereo? But not to the SD card? How does the mixer run through the actual physical unit? Is a 62 seconds sampling time global or per track?
It’s mental to make a unit like this with so much potential, yet such mickey mouse memory. Smells like a suit and tie decision. Great review though.