Ultra Precision Voltage Reference and Maker Faire Hannover 2018
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2018
- PCBs by jlcpcb.com/
xDevs Kx reference article: xdevs.com/article/kx-ref/
LTZ1000-based multimeter: www.welectron.com/Keysight-34...
Small 50W ultrasonic cleaner: bit.ly/2y9ZozS
Patreon: / marcoreps
I've decided to start this project a long time ago. It took months to get the parts and many more to let the reference assembly settle down. But the result is (supposed to be) the best voltage reference that one can DIY. Now I'll start the quest for a suitable voltmeter ... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Schmelting temperature
For easier schmearing.
Vely intelesting... ;)
"Poets are writing hymns about this component." "Unobtanium" :D
7:55: "I think with laser systems, fun and danger go hand in hand." I couldn't agree more Marco.
"I can't enter my living room without disturbing the voltage reference..." LMAO
pepsi jazz, check out some of Bob Pease articles on just how sensitive some measurements can be.
@@1boobtube but couldn't this problem be solved with a faraday cage?
@@Ramog1000 , Down the rabbit hole past faraday cages, exposed copper gold plated traces, multi layer guard rings comes making connections for sensitive nodes in air off the board, minimizing the air space to reduce the effects of cosmic rays, thermal isolation, acoustic isolation and other analog voodoo.
He should have used a lead enclosure to protect it from cosmic particles.
LOL the Physikalisch Technische Badeanstalt has brought a widlarizer!
Love those guys already.
I love that they had WIDLARizer tool there 👍
5:33 you got me! :P I was thinking "damn those are not cheap!"
Precision? bahhh humbug! My kind of engineering is measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a chalk, and cut it with an axe...
That's what Electrical Engineers do. Lol.
My main fields are measured in "does it run or crash" (computers) and "is the surface smooth enough to actually resemble what I printed" (3d printing purely functional parts).
The general population thinks computers are the ultimate in precision electronics, but in reality, they are the ultimate in engineering around the lack of precission.
It's incredible how in a world where we are capable of precision electronics engineering ranging in the nano ranges for all practical measurements, computers are now at a point they are verging on being considered non-deterministic because of all the humbuggery to keep them running with excessive heat, the dirtiest and wildly varying frequencies, dirtiest and wildly varying voltages and unreliable digital data.
And this done on gate feature sizes on the single digit nano scale sending signals at up to and beyond 200/picoseconds, in parallel, through billions of transistors.
To the point the reliability of the data that comes out of them is questionable enough to become a real problem in our data driven world.
People are developing quantum computers independently, but the further downscaling of binary computers may just accidentally result in our compensation efforts for the phenomena at those sizes to bring forth quantum computer capabilities and features based in standard binary electronics.
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about (at least in most videos) but still watch them all 😀
Anyone who didn't hold their breath at 10:15 during the calibration test is just not concerned about precision.
Next week: "I've got two Josephson Junction Array modules. Let's grind the top off of one and see what's inside!"
Nice work!
In the same room was a guy with a tesla coil and some HAM radio operators (like me *hrhr*) broadcasting at 50W...
So yeah, all those measurements were a bit problematic, but I guess this equipment is well shielded.
Yes I see the Uni-T dmm in the corner that they used to do the fresh calibration 🤣
don't cut leads before soldering, if component is thermal critical. instead use some crocodile clips on them to dissipate heat even faster.
cutting them afterwards let the joint vulnerable to oxidation (microcracks)
if thats your concern then you can always touch it to reflow solder over any exposed copper (if your not lacquering it in the first place), where thats still preferable to actual damage from thermal shock/ overheating
but wouldn't reflow will introduce way more heat ?
I mean the DIY reflow oven/plate method.
The only thing i know which is superb is that zinc wave bath :D.
Personally I just crystallized tin and lead directly on the pads from solution so the parts weren’t overheated on my voltage reference.
haha this is a joke , right? :)
if not video pls
That PCB is gorgeous and I just want to hold one and admire it.
Was nice meeting you at MFH18! Great video as always. I can't wait to see your progress with the spectrum analyzer project!
Very much enjoyed this video! Beautiful work on the standard. I bet after some aging, it will be amazingly stable. You have a great way of presenting things and you make it quite fun.
Your PCB design style in this video inspired me to try something new. Great work, cheers
this reference layout is the best available pcb design for the very best ltz1000, amazing! (thanks x DEVs)
Physikalisch-Technische Badeanstalt, ahahahahaha, good one!
Anvilshock explain
Correct name is 'P...-T... Bundesanstalt', meaning 'Federal Institute for Physics and Technology'. This institute actually exists. 'Badeanstalt' (this also exists) sounds and looks remotely similar but translates to 'bathing institution' and is what public swimming pools are called in typical German bureaucratic jargon. The joke is in the intentional malapropism, a trope quite common in German humour. It may be either purely decorative, to sprinkle some flavour into one's speech, it may be a jab at the original term's jargonesqueness itself or at some aspect of the thing for which the term is the name. An (US-) English equivalent might be 'Federal Bureau of Infestation'. The intentional malapropism here may again be entirely nonsensical and unrelated or may carry an ironic meaning indeed. Conceivably, the FBI example could lend itself to alleging a practice of 'infesting' a place with 'bugs', ie. placing listening devices, but I could neither confirm nor deny any allegations as to the actual FBI's methods and resources without the Secretary's approval; after all, I'm not associated with the FBI, and certainly not with the IMF, either, and even if I were, I would not be at liberty to disclose so. But since I'm not, I couldn't, even if I wanted to. Not that I'd want if I were. Ahem.
@@Anvilshock thanks for the explanation. Bob dabiuld look up 'german humor' on Wikipedia. It's very good.
I think german humor has something to to with german grammar and german culture; but I suppose you could say that about anything.
@@superdupergrover9857 Thanks for the nudge; good stuff, as you say: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_humour
@@Anvilshock That was the most elegant explanation for a joke I've ever read.
What a beautiful piece of circuitry. I was contemplating how much something like this would cost and my contemplation bump curled up and died on me. It is a thing of beauty and a joy to behold, however. 😍
Excellent video.
I really like that your videos have quite a bit of actual silence (without even any ambience) in them. It makes a refreshing break from the constant noise in pretty much all other media :-)
Some years ago to get a low cost precision voltage source that is stable with temperature I used two different 78XX series TO-220 series regulators and the voltage difference is very stable as the voltage on both go up and down with temperature at the same rate. When using two voltage sources that go up and down by 2mv/C therefore the difference is 0mv/C, and that is how I solved this problem years ago cheaply.
Thanks for putting together a video about this!
Damn I was planning to do this video as well, thanks man. And huge thanks to XDEVS!
I love these videos and his calm voice! Very educational and entertaining! Congratulations on 100k+ subscribers. 😊🎉🎊
Sexiest voice on youtube
Those gloves are BAD-ASS!!! You look like Spiderman!
The rabbit hole goes to you when you're into electronics a very long time.
Great video, super interesting, cant wait to see next year
5:23
OK, I admit, you got me with that one.
I really squirmed when watching that. lol
Beautiful looking PCB. :)
Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt !! One of the best leading metrology institutes in the world...
Nice!! Good project once again and the 3.3microVolt standard deviation is actually very good!
As a side note we hope to see a full video on the Hanover Maker fair :) ...
Given the environment, I would bet a good portion of that deviation wasn't even his fault, but the fault of all the electrical noise at the fair.
I just got a JLCPCB as on TH-cam, it was an image and there were two boards, one of which ode this one!
So yeah, you tortured them.
Jetzt hast du sogar 2 von diese schönen DMM XD, ich baue mir jetzt meine Referenz endlich nach so viel Zeit!
I'm glad I'm not as into electronics as some. I couldn't afford it.
i once got free sponsor from PCBWay, you can have a try
@@RealElaineee What do you mean?
components are cheap. next to free when you recycle.
You got the long wanted 3458A!
Such a cool project. With the parts shortages I’ve settled on building a few LM399 references for now. I’ll get to some LTZ1000 or ADR1000 references at some point down the road.
Vielen Dank, Marco! Es var sehr interesant!
Love your work Marco: Quality over quantity!
The silicon sphere is supposed to be used to redefine the Mole (the amount of substance, not the animal).
7:00 Volt? lol "i cant enter my living room without distourbing the reference."
I am highly repelled by that kind of projects where you cleary cross the line to esoterics,because it will attract mostly apple-fanboy-charckters ;D
+1 for not taking it too seriously , good video
Looks amazing
wunderbarer Humor :-)
Oddly beautiful .
You went bit opposite direction on resistors. 70K are not critical, can be even 5ppm/K are fine. Most critical is temperature setting divider 13k/1k, which best to have in single package and hermetic packaged, instead of humidity-suspected epoxy resistors ;).
Also silicon kg sphere is not one to be used to redefine SI unit in 2019, but the watt balance , if all goes well.
I'm disappointed in connection of reference to LTZ module. Great example of how NOT to connect reference to the meter.
Well that's probably on me, I approached the guy with "Excuse me, can I have a quick voltage measurement?" instead of "Make way, here comes the best thing you'll see all day!"
Note for future : have your box with proper cable ends termination to copper spade lugs. So you can connect to proper meter in no time and get expected sdev
Awesome! I've been thinking about a box from soldered mu-metal and hermetic feedthrough-capacitors for the other board, but I bet there'll problems with customs when shipping hermetic containers?
It seems that both the spehere and the watt balance will be used. They want the Avogadro constant and the Planck number to be more accurate it seems. We will know more on 16 Nov 2018 though when the conference is over.
Were the components you used only available on request?
That scope is stunning Polyskop 9:35
I have two Fluke 5730A calibrators and 16 voltage references. those are powered for 7 years now. I have a massive UPS that uses 12 deep cycle batteries, which should give me a few months if the power goes out
Why is the constant power important for a voltage reference? It can't just be temperature related can it?
Console
It's to do with the subatomic dielectric permeability coefficient of non-linear electron transfer substrates.
The longer you leave the reference turned on the less you have to factor it in.
Well done. I am just using wash powder to clean.
you are in another level
You never know when you need a precisise 7.114544V reference.
Had a table at MFH this year too but not much time to look at everything myself.
Your back!
haha that sphere... i actually saw the vault where they keep it!
Very interesting, but where exactly can I get one of those German calibration hammers ??? ;)
Try Germany.
I love the WIDLARizer (about 10:38 - 10:45) - every precision lab should have one!
Thanks for the reminder; I only discovered this term a couple weeks back, and immediately forgot it again :-)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Widlar
Hey marco, have you tried putting tmc2130 drivers in your 3d printer yet?
I own cetus too but i just cant get them to work,, it should be so easy...
That Avagadro sphere though
Ive got a copy of this board from the original run. I need to build it one day.
Dude you are a master :)
the right side of super fun, interesting, time and stability, over temperature, a tenth of a volt off, i will go with that and my calculator, fine video, so enjoyable,
Great video . I even survived a cardiac arrest at 5:30
5:26 it's like those alcohol-filled candies...
its like fine aged wine.
How about the temperature stability of this nice rolling drumset?
Very good 👍
I love the dry humor!
Me too
Please more on multi material 3D printers!
A handheld chrome vanadium mallet near the exotic scientific instrument on the top is the right tool to fit all these strange kind of adapters.
It’s over a year now since you made this video. How is your voltage reference holding up? How has it drifted over time? How will you ever know it’s exact voltage? What did the national standards people say?
Where did you get your unobtanium resistors? I’ve been looking for them everywhere!
He got a special delivery from Unobtanium Planet.
5:23 - You got me! My mouth dropped open and everything! Your video at the Maker Fair was breath taking. What camera do you use?
How good is the Baku 3550 cleaner ?
Thank you for helping me to laugh so hard.
I completely missed the reason you made that 7v reference?
Are you making a spaceship ?
excelente!!!
I like you videos, but I’m glad I don’t have to delve into those domains. The last couple of digits of my 6.5 digit meters are usually flickering gleefully, and that rarely impacts my results. It gives me headaches when it does. Interesting to learn about what is and isn’t possible though.
Perfect dry German humour and very informative :)
Hey Marco, just saw a part of this video as an "Ad" from JLC PCB (on another channel) - I hope you are being compensated for it ;)
"Poets are writing hymns about this component!" hahahaha I love this guy!
nice narrative.
What are the type of gloves that you are using for pcb soldering and components placement? :O
A Polyskop...one of the world's first vector network analyzers.
i wonder how that would compare to a Weston cell, tho.. i bought a couple months ago a saturated weston cell. I measured it with a regular multimeter, of course it was 1.018V, but i haven't had the space and time yet to make a thermally-controlled box, and end up with a reliable voltage standard, and actually measure/calibrate with the thing... But still, i wonder how that ultra-precision voltage standard would compare to a voltage reference used in the 19th and 20th century
There was a really nice weston-cell-based voltage standard once, 6 cells in a big, multi-walled metal oven that's kept at 30 +/- 0.1°C ....... who knows, maybe I can get my hands on one :)
why you dont do 1A to 5A dc? i rally wona se how it suppose to be done
If you really wanted to go nuts with your voltage standard you could use hermetically sealed leads and put a hard vacuum in your enclosure. You would need to get rid of the closed cell foam for that though.
Ok, but where can I get that flying machine of the end?
I wish JLCPCB would offer high freq material like rogers. That would be fun to play with. But it is way to expensive to get it right now.
They also happily panelise :D
Off topic, how would I fare in Germany, since I want to study there? Is there anything specific I need to remember?
Most prestigious thing you ever assembled with black gloves ! There are special anti static gloves ? :)
Paul Lacatus the gloves are to prevent getting oil on the surface of the board, which can cause leakage currents, which can alter the voltage (when measured with an 8.5-digit multimeter)
Oh, the voltphiles on the EEVblog. Well, close enough to 7V.
Hey Marco tolle Videos aber wieso hast du Freimaurer Zeichen im Logo?
Physikalisch technische Badeanstalt, ich fall vom Stuhl :D
Yes I need some help. I need this programmable cap off my head. I don't have the equipment to remove it. Can you help?
I'd be curious to see a 7807 next to it ? I bet it would output 7.00 volts... lol !
@ 9:45 That is silicon 28 right? 2.51*10^25 of silicon 28 atoms to be exact?
@5:27 i died a little
And i was thinking my 200€ multimeter is accurate...
I can top that, 3€ from a store called Action :D
How about my 1$ meter xD
Physikalisch technische Badeanstalt! Ich kann nicht mehr, Ich schmeiß mich hinter den Zug!
Physically technical bathhouse! I can't go anymore, I'm throwing myself behind the train!
Absolute voltage accuracy is usually the least important spec for a voltage reference. drift vs time, temp, applied voltage or vibration are all far more important in use. As long as its absolute voltage accuracy is within range for the parts the ref is intended for, then its voltage stability vs various external and internal factors are much more important (time, vibration, temperature, voltage etc). so if its 7.120003VDC, thats all good, as long as its always 7.120003VDC.
lmao does that hammer say "out of spec"? that's hilarious
JLC PCB are using parts of this video for their TH-cam ad. I can send a screenshot if anyone wants, just get in touch.
What are the uses of such a board?
was it made of Keramic?