I grew up with exactly this dynamic. Mother a narcissist, father struggling with addiction and being severely codependent. Both of my grandparents also had this dynamic. I realised, that I used to do this in realtionships, mostly friendships, exactly how Tim describes it. I really wanted to be a "good friend", I did what I did (love bombing and rushing intimacy) with the best intentions towards the other person. Many turned away from me or they turned out to be toxic, so the relationships always failed in the end. I feel so ashamed, that I used relationship "skills", I probably learnt from the narcissistic and co- narcissistic people, I grew up with. How did I not realise that... I long to have friends, I just don't know how to do it right... I either seem to be, do and feel "too much" or "too little". 😔
We have been too lonely and isolated and I think that's the reason why we get too excited and rush into relationship. I over share too much and I don't notice it until I have done it. I don't like conflicts and I'm a people's pleaser but I also do it unconciously because it's my auto pilot. I'm not trying to manipulate anyone but for safe people looks suspicious and narcissists spot me easily.
@@Lyrielonwind Exactly! Thank you so much! I do the same, I overshare and I need a lot of reassurance, that pulls people away. I don't have a strong sense of self and I feel unauthentic, I just don't know, how to change this. I want to be loved and understood and to love and understand.
I feel you! I also know oversharing and getting close with someone very fast. I know People pleasing and also trying to rescue someone, so that this person thinks I'm helpful and loveable. I know always playing the victim to make other people trying to rescue me. All of this is hard to realise. But I think it's the first step to being able to change something. We need a lot of self-compassion and trust to change these patterns. I think "radical honesty" is helpful on the one hand and on the other hand therapists who are trauma informed. It helped me a lot this year to make some small steps out of this childhood hell. Wish you all the best. ❤
@@Lyrielonwind I did it again. I shared something with someone, I wasn't ready to share yet, and now I'm feeling so deeply ashamed, I'm hiding from this person. When I realised, what I had done, I just wanted to run away, and never talk to her again. But I can't hide from her forever, our kids are friends. 🙈
Yes, the pregnancy, birthing, and early years are so very crucial. Only we don’t have a “community” helping each other like hundreds of years ago. We’re all afraid of being cast out of “the tribe”, yet have limited, or no “tribe” that really helps each other daily. Many have a “façade” of having help, or a “tribe”. One knows when there’s a personal event, which doesn’t have to be what another thinks as tragic, yet is for one person, and see how many ppl check in and just help the person. This is worldwide and nationwide.
Nobody falls in love faster than a Narcissist who needs a place to live and a credit line. He never gave me a gift in 17 years he could not remember my birthday or Christmas.
Yes. She moved in after 3 months and started to eat away at the wealth I had built up, including property and excellent pensions. She was manipulative and utterly relentless. Last year we were declared bankrupt. That first year we were together, I bought her lovely flowers for her birthday and took her to the theatre - she loved it. 2 months later it was my birthday - nothing, not even a card. For my 50th birthday we had a lovely family event - so much love and joy. Until the end, when she had a meltdown and totally spoiled it for everyone.
I almost fell to this trap once, and I must confess that I took part in rushing things up with them, mostly because I got sexually involved. The power of emotional vulnerability that comes along with sex is no joke!
9:20 That is precious information, it can be so hard to find information about how healthy relationships are formed! Thank you for everything you do, I only recently found your channel and it's a great ressource!
@@reallythere you know, I don't know a lot about co-dependency, but it sounds like mutual love. Isn't that what happens when two people truly love each other? I think this idea of "we're strong, independent people that don't need each other" is ridiculous. Of people have a spouse or long term person, why would you want to think so independent? I know there are unhealthy levels of everything, but real love seems to be lost between two people and we speak against being vulnerable to someone.
@@hurricaneaquatics it is. But due to trauma, the relationship started on the fast Track and it's not suitable for long term due to various factors. Just sad to always be looking for the connection that was missed at childhood, instead of being able to search for a suitable partner patiently...
This is the best explanation I have ever heard, ever. It is so spot on and so sad. Both of my narcissistic husbands divorced me when I started to get better and asking questions. First was 22 yrs and the second, 22 months. The 2nd was WAY worse, worse than our malignant mother. So malignant and dreadful, he is still fooling everyone. 10 years later, I finally have boundaries with “friends” too. Sheesh. I only survived (I almost died physically too) because of my faith and trust in God. He sees what these and other awful people do and they will be held accountable.
I love this man he made me realize I had shame and it dictated a lot of my life. Knowing is half the battle, rewiring my brain to not feel shame has helped me tremendously
This is definitely how my last relationship started. Then when i continued to expect all the behaviors that made me fall in love with him, he threw it in my face how needy and dependant i am and no one worth a damn would someone like me
Listening to this I kept thinking that’s me, that’s me, that’s me. But then that is me, until the bit where I want something in return. I am just a loving, caring man who gives all of myself in a relationship and ask for very little in return because there’s very little I need as I am quite content. I can, however, be taken for granted as happened recently in a new relationship with a woman. I also ultimately have a strong sense of self and very clear boundaries and the moment she shut down emotionally for the first time I abruptly ended the relationship. So here I am wondering if I am a narcissist but I don’t think so. I don’t think a narcissist would be wondering if he was a narcissist and how he might be able to better himself. I could be wrong, I’ll keep looking.
I am the person he is describing. I always love bomb, push for an established relationship, and everything else he is describing. The worst part is I didn't even realize I was doing this until I watched this video. What do I do to fix this?
My marriage the past 11 years. It’s hard for me to get out of it because I have no one. No kids, most of my immediate family has died, and he has secluded me from any past friends. I don’t drive because I have a seizure problem so that’s probably an advantage for him. He’s a functional alcoholic and a self employed mechanic. Number one thing I have learned is that money is not the key to happiness. We have no children so we don’t struggle but his mental/emotional abuse is killing me. 😢
@@ghaliashaheen I felt like this for a long time but never acted on it because I had children to raise. I'm so confused and lost. I used to have so much courage and Independence.
I was in your shoes 3 years ago. Slowly , the illusion starting fade . You need to make sure you are financially stable and can look after yourself and kids. You can’t leave if you don’t have stability financially . I would work on that .
I experienced this in South Korea in an employer-employee relationship. I also witnessed it in the lives of American pastors married to Korean women. The men just became husks. They were beaten down, gaslighted to the n-th degree and manipulated to an inch of their lives. I have come across many stories of the reverse happening when Western women marry Korean men. I saw 3-4 year olds having already mastered these techniques. There are some weird Korean government employees that approach foreigners in public spaces and restaurants and make use of these methods as well. For anyone dealing with South Koreans, be very careful, your life could very truly be at stake. Truthfully, all my interactions with Koreans were like this. All, literally all relationships.
Yeah pastors are almost always manipulative narcissists who seek out much younger girls to groom. It honestly doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that they do so with foreign women too, especially someone from a culture like South Korea. Always best to keep strong boundaries around “religious” men as it is usually a manipulation tactic.
As a man, this sounds like a great relationship. Lots of sex, idealization… but in my unfortunate experience, the one thing that starts to happen is devaluation. What’s a person to do? Learn to spot the first phase of lovebombing but know the score and be ready to walk out the door as soon as things turn dark. Play the player.
I guess first is not rush and give space. Get to know the person slowly without idealizing them. Then, you can spot any possible red flags. Anyhow, I think we are used to see control as a sign of love when it should be freedom to be yourself.
I’m number 3 and 4 He always told me that I was super sexy, and he was always attracted to me and felt proud when he was out with me And I put up with this crap ! He was alcoholic narcissist, and I’m codependent perfect match He was a charmer & self confident for sure but underneath all that he was not Sounds like my last relationship Of course we’re not together anymore 7:54
I just want to love someone and have them love me back. That's it. But my wife is an avoidant who is codependent on her parents. And we can't ever get along or agree on a future together because of it.
Life it just a testing that will taking you between heaven or hell after this life..dont be your trauma or regret forever in eternal life..i just remind you all that end of time is near prepared with do charity to your goodness in eternal life...
I have one big problem with this and perhaps he has addressed this in the past and I’m just not aware. He is either conflating or not explaining the difference between a person and heaven narcissistic behaviors, and calling someone a narcissist . NPD is an actual diagnosis. I’m sure plenty of people could be diagnosed with this that never get treated, but this word is just thrown around with impunity. It’s irresponsible.
💡💡💡This red flags thing is misleading because good people do those things also. Please add more criteria when you describe your red flags because motivation is key. Destroying others for childhood revenge and self gain is the motive and you don't bring up any of that. You sent people off into the world who are now going to mistrust extroverts ...and that's not right. ❤ Love your teachings.
The topic of this lecture is particularly painful for me. Thank you Tim, your lectures are always phenomenal
The dance of wounded souls. Such a romantic description of a very sad phenomenon
Broken people everywhere.
I grew up with exactly this dynamic. Mother a narcissist, father struggling with addiction and being severely codependent. Both of my grandparents also had this dynamic.
I realised, that I used to do this in realtionships, mostly friendships, exactly how Tim describes it. I really wanted to be a "good friend", I did what I did (love bombing and rushing intimacy) with the best intentions towards the other person. Many turned away from me or they turned out to be toxic, so the relationships always failed in the end. I feel so ashamed, that I used relationship "skills", I probably learnt from the narcissistic and co- narcissistic people, I grew up with. How did I not realise that...
I long to have friends, I just don't know how to do it right... I either seem to be, do and feel "too much" or "too little". 😔
We have been too lonely and isolated and I think that's the reason why we get too excited and rush into relationship. I over share too much and I don't notice it until I have done it. I don't like conflicts and I'm a people's pleaser but I also do it unconciously because it's my auto pilot. I'm not trying to manipulate anyone but for safe people looks suspicious and narcissists spot me easily.
@@Lyrielonwind Exactly! Thank you so much! I do the same, I overshare and I need a lot of reassurance, that pulls people away. I don't have a strong sense of self and I feel unauthentic, I just don't know, how to change this. I want to be loved and understood and to love and understand.
I feel you! I also know oversharing and getting close with someone very fast. I know People pleasing and also trying to rescue someone, so that this person thinks I'm helpful and loveable.
I know always playing the victim to make other people trying to rescue me.
All of this is hard to realise. But I think it's the first step to being able to change something. We need a lot of self-compassion and trust to change these patterns.
I think "radical honesty" is helpful on the one hand and on the other hand therapists who are trauma informed. It helped me a lot this year to make some small steps out of this childhood hell.
Wish you all the best. ❤
Thank you for sharing hits hard and I have been doing exactly this trying to heal and move forward
@@Lyrielonwind I did it again. I shared something with someone, I wasn't ready to share yet, and now I'm feeling so deeply ashamed, I'm hiding from this person. When I realised, what I had done, I just wanted to run away, and never talk to her again. But I can't hide from her forever, our kids are friends. 🙈
So sad, little to no parenting can have such a dramatic affect on one's life.
Or even worse an abuse narcissist parent
@@marykennedysherin3330same explanation no real parent around growing up but a child inside who became ur parent...just my thought.
Yes, the pregnancy, birthing, and early years are so very crucial. Only we don’t have a “community” helping each other like hundreds of years ago. We’re all afraid of being cast out of “the tribe”, yet have limited, or no “tribe” that really helps each other daily. Many have a “façade” of having help, or a “tribe”. One knows when there’s a personal event, which doesn’t have to be what another thinks as tragic, yet is for one person, and see how many ppl check in and just help the person. This is worldwide and nationwide.
Nobody falls in love faster than a Narcissist who needs a place to live and a credit line. He never gave me a gift in 17 years he could not remember my birthday or Christmas.
Yes. She moved in after 3 months and started to eat away at the wealth I had built up, including property and excellent pensions. She was manipulative and utterly relentless. Last year we were declared bankrupt. That first year we were together, I bought her lovely flowers for her birthday and took her to the theatre - she loved it. 2 months later it was my birthday - nothing, not even a card. For my 50th birthday we had a lovely family event - so much love and joy. Until the end, when she had a meltdown and totally spoiled it for everyone.
Why would you treat yourself like that(
Id say that's more on you. Of course he's gonna take advantage of that....
I almost fell to this trap once, and I must confess that I took part in rushing things up with them, mostly because I got sexually involved. The power of emotional vulnerability that comes along with sex is no joke!
9:20 That is precious information, it can be so hard to find information about how healthy relationships are formed! Thank you for everything you do, I only recently found your channel and it's a great ressource!
2 people in search of a mother ❤️🩹
Basically, yes and one of the, the narcissist, repeats the behavior of their mother or father onto you.
Exactly. 💯 and 2 persons in need of ❤. Sometimes 2 co dependants and no narc
@@reallythere you know, I don't know a lot about co-dependency, but it sounds like mutual love. Isn't that what happens when two people truly love each other?
I think this idea of "we're strong, independent people that don't need each other" is ridiculous. Of people have a spouse or long term person, why would you want to think so independent? I know there are unhealthy levels of everything, but real love seems to be lost between two people and we speak against being vulnerable to someone.
@@hurricaneaquatics it is. But due to trauma, the relationship started on the fast Track and it's not suitable for long term due to various factors. Just sad to always be looking for the connection that was missed at childhood, instead of being able to search for a suitable partner patiently...
@@reallythere good explanation, thanks.
Aka a Taker/ abuser and a Giver/ doormat
Avoidant Anxious dance
Avoidant anxious dance
T H I S
I hope someday that this is taught in school middle and high school
That’s what parents are for..
This is the best explanation I have ever heard, ever. It is so spot on and so sad.
Both of my narcissistic husbands divorced me when I started to get better and asking questions. First was 22 yrs and the second, 22 months. The 2nd was WAY worse, worse than our malignant mother. So malignant and dreadful, he is still fooling everyone.
10 years later, I finally have boundaries with “friends” too. Sheesh.
I only survived (I almost died physically too) because of my faith and trust in God. He sees what these and other awful people do and they will be held accountable.
I love this man he made me realize I had shame and it dictated a lot of my life. Knowing is half the battle, rewiring my brain to not feel shame has helped me tremendously
I have experienced this my entire life and have participated in it sometimes
Thank you for sharing this information that is extremely helpful and needed now
It's very common for anxious attachment people to be all that u describe as narc.. and actually they are the ones that end up with narcs
Oh dear me 😢 Clear, concise. Painfully and heartbreakingly true. I remember
This is definitely how my last relationship started. Then when i continued to expect all the behaviors that made me fall in love with him, he threw it in my face how needy and dependant i am and no one worth a damn would someone like me
Listening to this I kept thinking that’s me, that’s me, that’s me. But then that is me, until the bit where I want something in return. I am just a loving, caring man who gives all of myself in a relationship and ask for very little in return because there’s very little I need as I am quite content. I can, however, be taken for granted as happened recently in a new relationship with a woman. I also ultimately have a strong sense of self and very clear boundaries and the moment she shut down emotionally for the first time I abruptly ended the relationship. So here I am wondering if I am a narcissist but I don’t think so. I don’t think a narcissist would be wondering if he was a narcissist and how he might be able to better himself. I could be wrong, I’ll keep looking.
This right here!
Same thing I was asking myself. Can anyone be selfless nowadays with boundaries without being called unhealthy lol
@@eddy71487 ….boundaries have never been more important in all aspects of life for health and wellbeing.
@Tim this was literally my parents pairing. Any advice for the children of this union?
This should be part of education! Thank you so much 🎊
Love your lectures , just when threw this
I am the person he is describing. I always love bomb, push for an established relationship, and everything else he is describing. The worst part is I didn't even realize I was doing this until I watched this video. What do I do to fix this?
Yes…all you said! TY Tim for helping me understand my marriage relationship.
So helpful 🙏🏻
My marriage the past 11 years. It’s hard for me to get out of it because I have no one. No kids, most of my immediate family has died, and he has secluded me from any past friends. I don’t drive because I have a seizure problem so that’s probably an advantage for him. He’s a functional alcoholic and a self employed mechanic. Number one thing I have learned is that money is not the key to happiness. We have no children so we don’t struggle but his mental/emotional abuse is killing me. 😢
Oh man, I feel you. Except we have kids. 😢 I have learned too, that money is not the key to happiness.
29 years I've been married to a narcissist. I don't know who I am anymore and I don't know how to get out. I'm totally disconnected.
Recognising it is the stage 1. Well done for the even getting there x
@@ghaliashaheen I felt like this for a long time but never acted on it because I had children to raise. I'm so confused and lost. I used to have so much courage and Independence.
I was in your shoes 3 years ago.
Slowly , the illusion starting fade .
You need to make sure you are financially stable and can look after yourself and kids. You can’t leave if you don’t have stability financially . I would work on that .
Love Tim....only the shouting is sometimes triggering 😊
I experienced this in South Korea in an employer-employee relationship. I also witnessed it in the lives of American pastors married to Korean women. The men just became husks. They were beaten down, gaslighted to the n-th degree and manipulated to an inch of their lives. I have come across many stories of the reverse happening when Western women marry Korean men. I saw 3-4 year olds having already mastered these techniques. There are some weird Korean government employees that approach foreigners in public spaces and restaurants and make use of these methods as well. For anyone dealing with South Koreans, be very careful, your life could very truly be at stake.
Truthfully, all my interactions with Koreans were like this. All, literally all relationships.
Yeah pastors are almost always manipulative narcissists who seek out much younger girls to groom. It honestly doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that they do so with foreign women too, especially someone from a culture like South Korea. Always best to keep strong boundaries around “religious” men as it is usually a manipulation tactic.
What a bizarre rant
@@sittingstill3578 Well, it could be a cultural issue, maybe not so bizarre.
I dated a Korean chick. At the beginning she was a nympho then she became a raging alcoholic
Thank-you ❤
As a man, this sounds like a great relationship. Lots of sex, idealization… but in my unfortunate experience, the one thing that starts to happen is devaluation. What’s a person to do? Learn to spot the first phase of lovebombing but know the score and be ready to walk out the door as soon as things turn dark. Play the player.
I guess first is not rush and give space. Get to know the person slowly without idealizing them. Then, you can spot any possible red flags. Anyhow, I think we are used to see control as a sign of love when it should be freedom to be yourself.
@@Lyrielonwind First is to learn to be happy alone, then you can walk away from anyone who mistreats you.
Men dont know how to live life, just want to play stupid games.
Thank you
Sizzle to Fizzle
Spot on!! 100%
This is 100%.
Yes what next?
Where is the sinister part?
Yes but the full video?
I would love to know what do you do after you’ve learned all of this and you can recognize the red flags. Like, what’s next?
You could look for a therapist! I'd suggest you search for DBT and ACT! ❤
Seeing is the first step.
Protecting yourself is the second.
I’m number 3 and 4
He always told me that I was super sexy, and he was always attracted to me and felt proud when he was out with me
And I put up with this crap !
He was alcoholic narcissist, and I’m codependent perfect match
He was a charmer & self confident for sure but underneath all that he was not
Sounds like my last relationship
Of course we’re not together anymore 7:54
I just want to love someone and have them love me back. That's it. But my wife is an avoidant who is codependent on her parents. And we can't ever get along or agree on a future together because of it.
How can I see this full teaching? Someone, please!
The link is in the description, but you can also find it here: th-cam.com/video/hzQqR15zvog/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GjjswHEB6lgDm_uA
I don't know if I was one or the other in my last relationship. Both I guess.
Life it just a testing that will taking you between heaven or hell after this life..dont be your trauma or regret forever in eternal life..i just remind you all that end of time is near prepared with do charity to your goodness in eternal life...
Where’s the rest of talk?
The link is in the description, but you can also find it here: th-cam.com/video/hzQqR15zvog/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GjjswHEB6lgDm_uA
Talk got cut short
Everyone learnt this from Sam Vaknin.
I don't even get how we can subconsciously fall into these things. All of these things sound great but they're so toxic. Wtf?
TH-camr Ramani claims the gifted child is the narcissist.
TH-camr Rosenberg claims the opposite.
I have one big problem with this and perhaps he has addressed this in the past and I’m just not aware. He is either conflating or not explaining the difference between a person and heaven narcissistic behaviors, and calling someone a narcissist . NPD is an actual diagnosis. I’m sure plenty of people could be diagnosed with this that never get treated, but this word is just thrown around with impunity. It’s irresponsible.
Its 2024 were everyone is all screwed up somehow! 😂
💡💡💡This red flags thing is misleading because good people do those things also. Please add more criteria when you describe your red flags because motivation is key. Destroying others for childhood revenge and self gain is the motive and you don't bring up any of that. You sent people off into the world who are now going to mistrust extroverts ...and that's not right. ❤ Love your teachings.