When Narkies got all the resources _ they don't get triggered _ they trigger u _ it's their addiction _ it's the only thing that gives them ego. I know wealthy barky barks _ they must destroy others for fun _ so their ego stays intact _a glass house that never cracks until _ or right before they die and realize they can't buy their way into heaven_ glass house cracks about 6 hours before they die _ when it's a Grandy Pandy.
Growing up, my family of origin was like this. Things were fine until something happened. Caused me to walk on eggshells. Constantly in fear and insecure. And of course, I grew up to become the same. I was fine until something triggered me. Then I would completely melt down. In the past few years, I've done a lot of healing. Now I'm more conscious and aware of these triggers, and know how to better control myself (and my emotional reactions) when they happen. I'm proud of myself. I avoided the world and relationships because I was afraid I'd hurt others. I did that anyway, especially in my avoidance. The only way out is through. Big love to anyone reading this, or anyone else out there doing this work. It's hard, but it's worth it. 💛
@almondmilksoda .... "I avoided the world and relationships because I was afraid I'd hurt others" is a powerful statement and I did that too! My unfruitful life at age 50 is proof (never married, never birthed children, scared of anything and everything including living and dying....I feel like Ive made progress in many ways too however listening to Tim always makes me think that have I actually made progress or am I still just hiding my pain and self hate by trying to do good deeds and say good things which then makes me a narcissist according to his teachings and that thought makes me feel so so very sad.....Im just trying to understand all of this. Lord please heal my heart and soul as I truly dont want to to keep living this way...x
Except for avoiding to get pregnant, I'm avoiding the world but not because I think I'm dangerous, it's because I'm not mature enough to deal with with more crappy relationships... Burned out and in freeze mode, unfortunately.
@@HisHiddenTreasure777 Hey, I know you weren’t initially talking to me about anything but I read your comment and I just want to say, I know EXACTLY how you feel:( trying to find the line between doing what I feel is right for me and what I feel is right for others is… hard, because I don’t want to DO ANYTHING that might hurt someone again but then again… while I don’t know for certain, I want to believe that there isn’t anything wrong with *reciprocity*. It’s that give-n-take, and as long as you feel you’re being fair AND the people you’re reciprocating your life with feel the same, then WE are at *peace*.
Narcissists aren't the only ones who get triggered. Victims of Narcissistic abuse have triggers too. A trigger is just a sign that some hot button issue has not been dealt with. The real sign of Narcissism is a lack of Empathy.
@@AffectionateSeaOtter narcissists tend to start out as victims. I'm not saying they aren't problematic, but their childhood experiences created it. Compassion can heal people in pain
@@Sarah-with-an-H No it cannot. Compassion alone cannot heal. Healing requires a PERSONAL DECISION to CHANGE and starts with remorse and accountability i.e. acknowledging your own responsibility, something Narcissists are incapable of doing or understanding. They lack Empathy so they feel no Remorse either. And there is no such thing as personal accountability in their books because they set their own rules in life and make and break them as they please without regard for the consequences or impact on OTHERS.. And Narcissists don't START out as victims any more than the abused do and yet, NOT all abused individuals turn into Narcissists later in Life. You are trying very hard to find excuses for their behaviour. NO excuses will change them unfortunately.
@@AffectionateSeaOtter compassion heals compassion for yourself and people around you and the wisdom of knowing you can't change anyone but yourself if you want to. Understanding how an individual got that way can make a world of difference in perception because simply seeing somebody as evil isn't it I'm actually surprised people forget this. Because back in the 80's every kids movie had messages that even the most evil character had something very human flawed and even redeeming about them. Because nobody is pure evil or pure good. We're all just trying to survive. and even the most good characters had negative things about them. When did we forget and become so black and white? Avoidance of the darkest parts don't make them go away it makes the darkness the focal point
@@Sarah-with-an-H It must be the 80s movies then that has caused people to have the wrong perceptions. The line of reasoning in these messages, that we should put up with a Narcissists' abusive behaviors because 'no one is perfect or 100% evil or good, is pretty dangerous because they are making us completely ignore the fact that what we call Evil in thus world starts somewhere small where it is brushed aside as being 'not that bad' or 'not as bad as the next bad thing up the assembly line of mental and spiritual pathology'. If you have truly dealt with a Narcissist, both closely and ling term, you would know enough not to be making these frivolous statements and assumptions. There are countless families, and families that I know personally, including the one I was born in, where the entire family was subjected to Narcissistic abuse (because the quiet truth is behind every abuse there is a Narcissist) ....but not all individuals subjected to the SAME abuse in the SAME family (environment) ended up becoming a Narcissist later on Life. Why didn't and why don't they to the present day? Does that question not deserve merit? It's a very legit qs. and it gives insights into the workings of the human mind (and soul) and offers an explanation for why some people follow one direction in life and some (even frim the same Family of origin) the other exact opposite path. The answer is Free Will, it is a conscious CHOICE they make. As such their choice determines their outcome for which they are themselves responsible. They can blame their abusive families for the pain and trauma just like the other siblings can but their choice to toss Empathy out of their lives is theirs alone because the other siblings in the SAME Family had the same choice but they chose not to (toss Empathy out) . The same can be observed in Twin studies. If every child who was abused ended up becoming a Narcissist then your argument would carry a lot of weight. Both human observation and social experiments show us repeatedly that's not the case. The outcome is NOT just determined by the good or bad circumstances we are born and raised in but also (and more so) by the choices we make in life and we have to take accountability for that. Sadly, accountability is the very thing that Narcissists run away from because it correctly puts the responsibility back where it belongs i e. with the person making the choice
@@AffectionateSeaOtter who said your supposed to put up with someone treating you badly. I never suggested that. You're giving your abusers power though
I've been told I have narcissistic traits. There are things that I have done over the years that I did not realize I was doing. My wife was the one who told me that I have the traits, but doesn't think I am a narcissist. I am 48 and far more aware of my behaviors now than ever before. I self medicated with marijuana for more than 30 years and quit about a year and a 1/2 ago. My father was definitely a narcissist, and he got that from his dad. It was behavior that only we in the house saw, not the outside world... I know where I got it from. Watching Tim helps me and it also hurts me at the same time, if that makes sense. I'm getting better though sometimes it feels like three steps forward two steps back. I will not give up.
Wow. Thank you Tim. I never understood why my narcissistic mother would batter me daily when I was a child. I was terrified of speaking or doing anything, because I thought she was beating me due to something I said or did. So I would hide to avoid her and remain completely silent. I had no idea she was beating me, because she actually wanted my attention. 🤷♀️ I had no idea she was JEALOUS of other people having my attention. She would always try to get rid of all my friends. I knew she craved attention, but my fear of her pushed me away from her. She was a toxic narcissist.
Powerful stuff man. My step dad has some characteristics like this. He only takes an interest in you when he wants something and gets you to open up only to use it against you later.
@@ML-ov7wo The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain as boring and neutral as a grey rock. Narcissistic people tend to feed off of their victims' reactions and crave attention. Also, they use all information you give them against you.
People with high narcissism traits are happy to bring up everything you do wrong or the things they disagree with, but if you mention anything you question in them, suddenly you’re attacking them and obviously just sensitive.
Sometimes they are getting everything they’ve asked for, then they are bored. They can go sideways just because they are bored. They can also go sideways at home when they are triggered at work or on the road driving home.
I have zero sympathy for these types, they know what they are doing, they siphon the victim off and abuse them when no one else is around. They wear a mask in front of others.
I find reading "zero empathy for ... " an unsettling line. You dont have to love anyone, just try to understand the grey bits, the nuances, how something or someone is built. They were an innocent child once too and were not the one to choose how they were going to grow. ✌🏽🌼
@@slimshany4602maybe they weren’t an innocent child .. I know one so entitled and badly behaved IN KINDERGARTEN … that his own cousin moved away so he didn’t have to be in the same school with him ! Appalling behavior as a 5 year old - no parent was able to tame him- no other kids in class could learn because he was literally bouncing off the walls.. in kindergarten ! Grew up to be a junky / alcoholic wife beating narcissist - did a lot of jail time ( assault, drugs, theft $… interestingly, a model prisoner.. no misbehaving in jail where the other prisoners will beat you up … out of jail, slapping his wife around and on drugs … very occasionally worked doing landscaping… .. I empathize with all his victims ( from toddler hood on )…
@@lucyt-c8092 I get what your saying, ofcourse such can be the case. But ut is its parents responsibility to take proper care of their child, and doesnt seem to be the case. But nevertheless is bringing up children and pets difficult and weird in a way that people are not being informed and going on obligatory courses to know how to care and guide to shape them in a good way.
@@Courgette65 it always rubs me a bit the wrong way when people describe their child as a narcissist (or any other mental health term). Because... You played a big role in causing that... I feel like it just sends the wrong message
If you have grown up being groomed, you learn to survive in the environment - you cross lines to "fit in" and start people pleasing and put on masks to cover the truth. Its never your ideal situation but the rationale is you settle for something is better than nothing.
I’ve just had a huge blow up with a friend but have come to the very sad conclusion that she’s a narcissist and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to influence change. Because all is rosy until I say something she doesn’t like. Saddest part of all, is she’s so fond of “holding up a mirror” for others to see their flaws 😢
Omgggg literally! This is also the friend that pretends like everything in their life is perfect just perfect! A facade is what it is. Can’t own up to anything they’ve done to you either. Then turn it around on you when it’s too much to take accountability for. Like how do you just make it about you ?
Omg! Thankyou 🙏 That was the exact last reason why I walked after 2 years on & off... I dared say no to something trivial for the first time..he's ghosted me. That's the moment I knew categorically he is a covert narc! Done 😉
I would say “great 99% of the time” is an unlikely percentage. Their sensitivity to being “victimized” is so high. Lot of this is clear and helpful to hear, though. 🙏🏻Thank you.
My ex was all this AND also provided reel proof that suggested I might just be the narcissist in the relationship. I lost who I was. I dint know if he was hurt and genuinely communicating or pulling the strings on me and making me guilt love him. Anyways, it was the most chaotic and stressful thing that happened to me. Thank God for healing gurus like Tim.
I still can’t tell if im a narcissist or not after 23 years… I hate more than anything the idea that all the positive things I’ve done have been for personal satisfaction and not because I wanted to for the good of it. I just want to be able to work on becoming a person and not an angry mess that hides behind hating others because I hate myself the most
Everyone does things for a complicated combination of personal satisfaction and altruism. I really have a problem with labelling people in this manner. No one fits exactly into a box.
@@A10011true, labelling doesn't help except to know when you're dealing with a pathological narc and there's no hope for change, ever. Better to let them go and start healing. More importantly, practice grey rocking, while in the relationship and no contact while out of it. Understanding narcissism helps with putting this into practice and healing
@@ArchAngel435healing takes compassion for yourself and people around you. I believe it's possible to heal. I'm practicing stepping back before acting out. Oftentimes I'm not even aware of how I feel and why. So checking in on myself first helps me recognize triggers before becoming reactionary.
Lack of separation from mother by age 3 for any reason causes a lack of object constancy or whole object relations because they didn’t utilize a transitional object like a pet or a blanket or stuffed animal to soothe their separation anxiety❤️🩹 shame, abandonment anxiety & CPTSD create these extreme codependent behaviors
@@Lyrielonwind Tim has even said if you have C-PTSD you have narcissistic traits. Sadly the pop psychology rhetoric is full of gaslighting misconceptions and lies. That fact that pop psychology gets so much wrong keeps the cycle going so nobody heals and grows because if they do heal there goes the $$$$$ too
They are children in adult bodies. They are stuck between the ages of 7 to 15 yrs old according to some experts, while others say they are stuck between 3 to 9 yrs old. But nevertheless they are children.
And what you don’t see is that the covert narcissist is playing the victim when they don’t get what they want, planting lies as they do, and then come back and try and emotionally blackmail you to get what you have already said no to. It’s the behind the scenes stuff that is the mind mess that takes ages to unravel.
Yes, they want an apology for your refusing to put up with their emotional and psychological warfare. It is so subtle. Start recording your arguments with them and documenting the context. It will be revealing. You also notice things about yourself that you need to change
Yes, so emotional neglect and more trauma can also be the case when a child grows up in wealth. Lots of emptyness and inner scarring, too little socialisation skills. Its never a happy disorder..! ✌🏽💛
Recording conversations helped me to see just how manipulative he was. You forget a lot without evidence. I started documenting arguments and what was happening during that time...saw trends And recorded arguments. If it wasn't for doing that I believe I would have continued to gaslight myself for life or to my death bed from the emotional turmoil
Exactly describes my ex husband. He never did ask me about myself when we first met, but used information that he had gleaned from other sources. Walked on eggshells for 25 yrs
Both, they know what they are doing. It falls into a spectrum but both have sadistic traits and won't be able and won't care for intro inspection because they don't care and they won't do it. Intro inspection is "craziness for them"...a blasphemy.
Psychopathy/sociopathy is the highest degree of narcissism. All sociopaths/psychopaths (antisocial personality disorder) are narcissists but not all narcissists are antisocial.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.” Matthew 6: 32-33 “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John 8:12 “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.” Matthew 16: 24-25
@@amyhenningsgard8618 I have been wondering what that looks like. I'm a middle aged scapecoat of 2 narcissistic parents. I am a Christian, they " claim" to be. My mother is sadistic and doesn't care that she's ruined my health ( textbook). She twists scripture when triggered, then a couple months later, love bombs & the cycle continues. I've prayed, gotten pastors involved etc. Unsure how God's will is being done in this situation. She's bad mouthed me and yes I've prayed for them from a far.
I’ve seen this remarked on this guy’s videos before, but- Codependency, cPTSD, and Narcissism are not the same things. Codependents also try to pour love into someone to try to get the same love back, and can also have meltdowns. The difference, I suppose, is that the codependent knows when they’ve done something wrong.
Codependents have been molded by the Narcissist to be submissive and servile.... different children react to parental abuse differently. The Narcissist usually picks a golden child to mold into a mini-me...
Narcissists are often caused by spoiling making the kid think she is extra special (as is said about Meghan Markle) but also poisonous sibling rivalry. This was definitely the case with my mother, the baby of the family, apple of her father's eye but hated by her two sisters on account of it. I also believe, given her sexual acting out, she hated my grandmother as a rival for her father's affectioniving her histrionic traits. There was also the intimation of incest, real or imagined, with a slightly older brother.
Sorry nonsense..Narcs are emotionally invalidated psychologically (and often physically) abused children.The golden child is but one of the many roles..spoiling a child is abuse..you deny them coping mechanisms to deal with the real world.
You describe here a narc family so it's not the spoiling per se but strong narcissistic traits. My ex husband came from such a family, his grandfather was grandiose ( never met his parents) and two of his siblings have strong narc traits but he is a pathological narc. I had to let him go after 25 yrs of marriage as his toxicity was getting me down.
@@ArchAngel435 My maternal grandmother and grandfather were not narcissistic. The interaction between the rotten sisters was a breeding ground for grandiosity, with each competing with the other. My youngest brother fulfilled the role of golden boy, because an insufferable, religious, self-righteous narcisisst
This is my sister in law to a tee. She was always a fad chaser and spending money on the latest thing even when she didn't have the money. But she has become an attention seeking black hole. A succubus hell bent on draining you until you are an empty meat sack puddled on the floor. Their mom died and I knew she was going to lose her mind but it's been epic, to point of collapse. I tried to warn the other sibling about the incoming storm but they were slow to take heed. Just try going through probate and settling an estate with one on these defective people. It's long story up to this moment but somehow I knew I'd have to either sue her for defamation or get a restraining order on her and her family. Yes it has gone to that level. Oh it turns out my MIL was a covert type of narcissist who helped create this monster while screwing up her other kids. The other sibling aren't narcs, but are extremely intelligent and suffer with crippling anxiety, followed by self medicating with alcohol. That woman did a number on all of them. Such a horrible personality disorder that destroys families. I just have PTSD from soaking in this crazy BS. It's almost over and I can't wait to go no contact.
Grant it, these are very simple, brief explanations - for any one, particularly an empath who is highly responsible (as in coming from a childhood of having to grow up beyond their years having resulted from caregivers that were emotionally immature, or psychologically unwell; addiction, mental health issues, etc.) and thinks they may have /have had relationships with this personality structure; the vulnerable (covert) narcissist, I encourage you to watch 'Covert Narcissism playlist' by Vital Mind Coaching (he's Australian - you'll know by the accent 😉). Understanding and educating yourself is key to your own healing. As Tim explains here, this personality structure was created by a caregiver who 'installed all the right buttons'; abuse, neglect; trauma. Due to intense identification of self as the ego - individuals with these personality structures will not accept the help they need (it's a forever loop, cycling) and they can only take you down with them. By the time you see through the mask, the facade - you're YEARS into it - it's the 'how do you boil a frog' scenario ... you don't know wtf hit you or why you feel like something is so wrong with you when they're 'so wonderful' - and would never hurt a fly. It's said the vulnerable/covert narcissist is more destructive than their overtly grandiose counterparts. From my experience - I would agree. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. 🕊 🫶 💪 🪷
Getting close to a narcissist is the most efficient way to find your own undiscovered trauma, because boy do they jam fingers in your brain!!! You can outsmart them though, they are very predictable and ALWAYS grandiose
These videos are interesting, but not necessarily the complete picture of narcissism and I believe (from experience) that narcissists can "emerge" from perfectly normal & good homes, families, parents etc..
Normal families don’t psychologically and emotionally invalidated their children and not meet many of their needs.Your beliefs are unfortunately not facts.
The people you have experienced have narcissistic traits which is far different from pathological narcissism. I know, I was married to one for 25 yrs, came from a narc family. Understood from Prof Sam Vaknin what I was really dealing with. Had to let him go as his toxicity was getting me and the children down
I came across a 40 y/o man acquaintance whose parents: 1 an attorney and one a doctor. To myself I thought, their son should be set in life priorities. Nope, he was a womanizer, has 2 rental cabins. If a woman asks to rent, he 'requires 5 x a day sex'. And easily screams.😮
Telling people if they get angry, 1% of the time, or jealous, that this is their true colours showing through, is really quite a dark and damaging perspective. Just because someone might get angry or jealous 1% of the time certainly doesn’t make them a narcissist. I love Tim Fletchers work and recommend him so often, but I think his understanding of narcissism needs some work. 😀
I plead the blood of Yeshua over you, right here right now, wherever you are. God, send your Holy Spirit on the one who writes this, and on the ones who read this... Give them peace and joy and bliss and health and wealth and love. Repent and allow Abba to hold you in His arms. Cry to Him about your pain, He loves you. He won't mind. He'll show you a way out. God bless you. NO WEAPONS FORMED AGAINST ME SHALL PROSPER NO WEAPONS FORMED AGAINST MY FAMILY SHALL PROSPER I AM RIGHT HERE EXACTLY WHERE I AM SUPPOSED TO BE
Not all narcissists art developed from extreme environments. Many are developed by the exact opposite where the parents baby them and give them a sense of entitlement.
My mother was a narcissist. I dealt with it for 46 years until She died. The verbal, emotional, and physical abuse finally went away. Then my husband took her spot. He’s been cheating on me and making me feel like it’s all my fault why he is cheating then he says he loves me but he’s sexually attracted to skinny pretty women. I am so torn down.
Sheesh this is just sweeping with too broad a brush for me. The idea that “giving to get” is inherently narcissistic is confusing. I think it’s a fundamental reality that relationships are transactional to a great degree and theres a potential danger in not addressing a lack of mutual transaction. I don’t think you’re a narcissist for expecting some level of the effort you give reflected from the people that would claim to love/care for you.
I can be verbally abusive, I’m just seeing that now. It does come from a fear of abandonment. I’ve learnt that from your abandonment video. But somebody acting out 1% of the time if they’re in an intimate relationship… Usually with a narcissist who triggers them. Does not make them a narcissist. I love your videos Tim I’ve learnt so much from them and continue to do so, and recommend them all the time to people. But you are not clear in your understanding of what a narcissist. You seem to see everyone is a narcissist if they react out of an emotionally wounded place at all, ever. For clarity on what a narcissist is, here is a brilliant video… m.th-cam.com/video/aa75ynfu4WI/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUnbWVsYW5pZSB0b25pYSBldmFucyBhbSBpIHRoZSBuYXJjaXNzaXN0
Out of curiosity, is Narcissistic traits stemed from traumatic experiences? I understand that as we get older some behaviors are cemented as long term behaviors. Also, my understanding is Narcissists are a clinical diagnosis, not something thats "Triggered behavior" (DSM-V) traits are constant not always a on and off switch. Doesn't sound like Narcissism if its a trigger. As a student, peer to peer critique is valued in my profession.
Good question because I dated an avoidant last year, and the tellings signs within the attachment community is that question: Are they an avoidant or a narcissist? We all relate to experiencing some form of narcissistic trait... Would that mean they're on the spectrum? Picked up behaviours due to past experiences? It's interesting
@@DobermanDanK9 I wouldn't classify it or give it names like that people have all kinds of behaviors for all kinds of reasons do you ever ask them why they do that behavior or what does it you can do to help facilitate or lubricate the process so that behavior doesn't have to be as dominant communication man it's not dead we just need to practice it better
@@DobermanDanK9 avoidance is a behavioral challenge, and should be wrestled with, not accepted for being something that's uncontrollable. But too much control signals other behaviors. Psychology is one of the hardest fields to work in and study. If it was so simple and easy... oh, oh no... yeah I guess a lot of people pseudo Psychology others because they read Friedrich Nietzsche, or Carl Jung. Not knowing Jung based most of his research on Fredian ideals and principles. That I learned from an other Psychology student who has lived in Germany her whole life. And studies Freudian psychology like I do
The main difference is a narcissist has no emotional empathy & see nothing wrong with how they treat people, where a person with narcissistic traits have these triggers due to abuse but they do have enough empathy to care about how they’re treating people when it’s brought to their attention& thus will work towards changing it.Over time & with work the empathy can increase so they’ll learn to treat people better because they care enough to change. Does that help? I hope I explained it well. 🙏🏼❤️🩹
@@triplejmom7826 I have to hard disagree, what separates the real from pseudo is the frequency and consistency. In cases of severe trauma someone can lose their sense of empathy or compassion for another person because they're dealing with their own emotions. Once that trial period is done if they don't return to baseline and they haven't sought out treatment there may be underlying issues whereas with a real narcissist it's not something they turn off or on its constant and it doesn't apply to 1 person over another it applies to everybody
Im confused about all this narcissists and co dependents stuff. Its kinda like to be neither 100 percent is impossible, youd basically be a robot. I dont know. Its interesting but its exhausting to think what I am or what someone else might be. I m not sure if humans can be put into a simple set of labels and diagnosis.
The birthplace of narcissism is also being over indulged as a child and doing no wrong…..You didn’t mention that but this is what happened to my narc ex husband.
What do you call people then, who accuse someone as a narcissist, yet these people in their life go on really normal etc..but then they too can have an experience where they have it all their own way, yet they had an upbringing where they were over protected, that all through their own marriage still had their provisions met by their family, yet didn't earn enough to see to their own needs, or their wife and 4 children. Yet they are nice, polite and doing for more outside their own family. Looking good in others eyes, yet family suffers.
by this logic, aren't most people narcissists? most people have needs they want met. are they only narcissists if they get angry and say mean things when they don't get what they want? because a lot of people get like that when their needs are denied
Not conscience. Never apologize. Say it never happened. Blame you for their actions. Tell you it was all your fault. This makes them a narcissist. We all have things that we want fulfilled from others. Maybe once or twice we might say something mean to someone being immature. After we think about it we would probably apologize or feel shame. We would expect the person we yelled at not to talk to us or to be upset with our behavior. We wouldn’t tell them it was all their fault or insist that we never yelled or called them nasty things. First version is a narcissist.
most people express their need/s..narcissists MANIPULATE you into meeting their needs because they dont trust anyone to meet them...and a Narc will never meet your emotional needs because they are incapable of doing so-devoid of empathy and they will also BLAME YOU for them not accepting nor validating nor meeting your needs.So no MOST PEOPLE ARE NARCISSISTS
I wrote a similar comment myself. Tim is absolutely brilliant and spot on in so many ways, but his understanding of what a narcissist is. I think I need some clarity. And I think that he just victim blamed perhaps unconsciously, but he just basically said anyone who gets angry or jealous ever, that’s who they really are. Not a good person who relates healthy 99% of the time. I would be like saying to your child, who is a good child who is well-behaved and does everything they can to be a good kid, the moment they get angry or jealous…thats their true colours coming through. Awful thing to say. And just because you get angry or jealous, does not make you a narcissist. It usually means you’re in a relationship with one
So you’re describing a as well, I would like to know are any of these victims benefiting from living with these people like the narcissist buying them a car buying them a home taking them on vacation working while they stay at home that’s what I like to know, I hear all the negativity, but I don’t hear the positives that the victims are getting If a person is a victim, then leave the relationship don’t start saying oh no it’s too hard you can leave the relationship anytime you want unless they are physically abusive and your fear for your life but 90% is not so get some self-esteem get a backbone and leave, but without the benefits that you have encountered throughout the relationship
Covert narcissists are a whole different breed! Maybe worth a talk to delineate the polar opposite of the grandiose. Hiding in plain sight in their strategic vulnerability
I think you need to be a bit clearer, because the way you’re describing it is anyone who snaps and gets angry or jealous…is a narcissist. So by this definition an honest, authentic accountable person who gets involved with a narcissist and then that narcissist uses their wounds to trigger them into jealousy and anger, is themselves a narcissist? So everyone on the planet is a narcissist, then according to this. Unless they are absolutely perfect and never get angry or jealous.
I mean take that for instance. The pain and rage I feel watching helplessly, caring for the other species as if they are my children. As God does. And it’s so obvious it’s wrong. A 3 year old could understand it. The animals get nutrients from the soil plants and water. We can go directly to those sources too, and our bodies were designed to do so. Everybody knows one detail about what happens to just one of those animals, that is so horrific, it’s too evil to comprehend. And yet people capable of complex thinking and healing their human relationships. People who are capable of all the human ingenuity, technologically, creatively. And you can’t understand what a three-year-old could understand? You feel nothing as you torture in such diabolical. There are no words for how evil. Ways. You make pleasant family rituals out of it. Use it as the highlight of your day. Of your year. You live to eat and at the end of the day, which is coming pretty soon, you will have destroyed all life on Earth just for pure greed, in the cruellest way imaginable. And I’m the narcissist? Every day I meditate to release the pain, the injustice, the helplessness I feel. And I even am getting back to being able to put all that aside, connect to God and help people again. But that I felt so angry I could only see people the way I’ve just described, and said what you would consider the ‘most terrible things’. The truth is, you should all be feeling the way I feel about what is the most obvious wrong that has ever been. And until you do, I’m carrying all of that, me and the few others who are not speciesist and utterly heartless, on this planet. The truth does hurt sometimes. But your feelings are not what should be being focused on. There are animals being tortured right now they’re the ones whose feelings you should care about.
That's what the bs msm want us to believe.. I thought the same as you for years. Then I did my own research on him from when he was a young man.. on TH-cam. A leopard never changes it's spots.. These Narcs in power can't have a good soul on board. Coz they will do good for us the masses then they will lose their power, control & money. All good presidents are assinated... It makes sence 🙏
“ fuck you you never spend time with me !!! I haaaaate you ( 31 year old husband/lawyer) “ - “ I’m just trying to plan our wedding .. you’re not helping. At all ? “
“You have no idea how much it hurt me when we were walking around and you were looking at other men ! ( says the serial cheater- serial eye wanderer - escort user abuser, - porn and sex addict - also this never happened i was more loyal than anything ) - sir what ?!? Making up lies out of no where just to try to get something on me
Although I’m a narcissist, I’m also very empathetic. The question really becomes what does the other person wish to bring out? If I were with someone, who had no desire to ease my troubles, it’s only a matter of time before I choose the same for their fortunes. Basically, what I’m hearing is you don’t care what trauma the other person has been through. You’re not willing to help find a path of trust. You see no desire for their comfort. You prefer to abolish the mentality they use with truth and gaslighting them into seeing the narcissist traits they use. Are you trying to tell me, this is proper abuse? Because I hear fighting an emotional mess of a person with more abuse. That’s no way to help someone you love cope through. Give a little sympathy for what another person has been through. Chances are, you are the person who put them in this narcissistic state of being. You refuse to allow them comfort. They have to find it through pain. I’m sorry Tim, but I disagree with your philosophical analogy of narcissistic values. And I’m a narcissist. Aren’t you?
I would say you are Narcissistic. Tim is talking about true Narcissists. People with Narcissistic personality disorder cannot feel empathy. Their world is "alliances" and " transactions".
Full blown NPDdoesnt want your empathy it wants your compliance to control.You clearly have never been in a relationship with a real Narc…you can’t ‘love’ them well or healthy.They are a lost cause.
My mother is a narcissist I cut her off but then six years later after wasting six whole years in therapy I learned on my own after my therapist moved out of the country, that my sister is also a narcissist and my stepmother and honestly my father too! My mother is a covert narcissist with histrionic personality disorder, my sister is an overt one always bragging about herself it’s very bad very jealous, Stepmother is a passive aggressive covert narcissist and honestly she’s the most toxic one because almost no one notices it and it’s so obvious just looking at her face😂 I’m pretty sure they’re screwing up my little brother because all he does is over eat and play video games to cope I feel terrible for him because he’s starting to realize something is wrong with my stepmother a.k.a. his mother she said herself that he called her crying and said you don’t care about my personal life you just care about my accomplishments in school
I agree many are totally unconscious or aware. Their self was est before the age 6-7. What was left is permant totally self involved. Victumhood blaming miserable INNOCENT UNHELPABLE
That is very true. Many narcissists coming out of complex trauma have no idea that this is what they are doing - they've adapted based on their experiences. As a result, many people come to realize later in life that they have narcissistic traits. Recognizing it and acting in kindness to yourself and others while addressing this behaviour is a big first step.
The shame may be subconscious but they are very aware of their abusive tactics & don’t try to change but simply hide them from public view so that you live with cognitive dissonance as well as no support or understanding from others who can’t even see the problems
@@TimFletcher I believe I'm a narcissist I don't like that I recognize it, but I also know the only way out is with honesty and acknowledging the reality. I tend to keep to myself because I don't want to hurt anyone as hurting others always causes me an incredible amount of pain and grief. I also recognize how dysfunctional my entire family is, but I'm the only one that's remotely aware of that. Any time I hurt someone it's completely unconscious though. I'm shy, introverted, and cynical. I'm pretty sure I'm a covert narcissist. If I do hurt someone it's because I was protecting myself from abuse. It's truly complicated
@@caroleminke6116 don't assume I'm not aware of being abusive when I'm triggered. By the time I'm triggered it's too late. I try my hardest to be calm and take a step back to explore my emotions, because often times I don't even know how I feel I'm just reacting. But when I successfully practice that stepping back and checking in with myself I can avoid that reactionary knee jerk response. Reality is being abusive hurts me as much or more because I realize it's me expressing that I'm a piece of garbage and unworthy of anything good. Narcissists usually really hate themselves. Any show of loving themselves is an act it's essentially fake it till you make it, but making it never comes.
WRONG! Narcissists were NOT created from other "severe narcissists" through trauma, they were a narcissist at birth. I'm tired of all the sympathy and excuses for narcissists! I was raised by two extreme narcissists who invoked physical, sexual, and mental abuses upon me, however I still CHOSE to be a good, loving, empathic human being! Very good description otherwise. Thanks for educating the masses.
@@ZiptiesAndButterflies ah, I see. You believe people are born bad because your own parents had very bad behaviors and you haven't yet learned about intergenerational trauma and you think you are a "better" person who just "chose" to do better than others choose to. But you know, what you're saying has a contradiction. If people are BORN a certain way, say narcissistic, then they can't just CHOOSE to be better. So if *you're* NOT an abusive person (although the way you talk about children makes me doubt that), then you couldn't have CHOSEN that, that's just the way you were born. So what your'e saying doesn't make sense. You didn't choose anything, you were just born that way, according to your line of reasoning.
@@penyarol83 Good point. You are exactly right. I am an empath because I was born one. And I thought I was usually good at noticing inconsistencies. The older I get the more I realize I am so far away from the person I wish I was. Do I think I'm better. Honestly, most of the time, I do. But, then sometimes I wonder if it is just how the universe creates opposites to drive the whole system as flesh/matter. I wonder if there was ever a start to it all if it is not by choice (ones soul I mean), and if so there certainly wouldn't be any merit for assigning one to "good" and "bad". I currently believe that we carry the same soul from life time to life time, but maybe that's just me wanting some accountability. The only time I feel compassion for narcissists anymore is when I wonder if our souls all eventually experience both sides in different lifetimes. Then I think, oh I should be loving, cause I just happen to be on this side now. Although I think this side is much worse based on my life thus far, I still rather be an empath, but maybe that's just my ego. I have no clue in reality... I guess to your point it feels mostly like it is not a choice, but that state can be slightly changed over a lifetime. Can those slight changes add up to how a soul starts? Maybe we have no freewill at all. Your guess is as good as mine.
Speaking as covert in therapy, the answer is YES!! Also when Tim talks about the “moon effect”, that’s the covert trying to build some sort of self esteem which fails, because it’s built on other people (codependency) and not on the covert learning to stand on their own two feet. Thank God I didn’t have children!!!❤
This is bang on, say no to them and stand back, the level of manipulation, rage, guilt tripping, is shocking. It is all transactional !
You described my Narcissist husband to a tee.
When Narkies got all the resources _ they don't get triggered _ they trigger u _ it's their addiction _ it's the only thing that gives them ego. I know wealthy barky barks _ they must destroy others for fun _ so their ego stays intact _a glass house that never cracks until _ or right before they die and realize they can't buy their way into heaven_ glass house cracks about 6 hours before they die _ when it's a Grandy Pandy.
@@shirleyguinyard8183 I’m so sorry, I hope you are healing. It’s taking me time to get back on my feet.
Growing up, my family of origin was like this. Things were fine until something happened. Caused me to walk on eggshells. Constantly in fear and insecure. And of course, I grew up to become the same. I was fine until something triggered me. Then I would completely melt down. In the past few years, I've done a lot of healing. Now I'm more conscious and aware of these triggers, and know how to better control myself (and my emotional reactions) when they happen. I'm proud of myself. I avoided the world and relationships because I was afraid I'd hurt others. I did that anyway, especially in my avoidance. The only way out is through. Big love to anyone reading this, or anyone else out there doing this work. It's hard, but it's worth it. 💛
@almondmilksoda .... "I avoided the world and relationships because I was afraid I'd hurt others" is a powerful statement and I did that too! My unfruitful life at age 50 is proof (never married, never birthed children, scared of anything and everything including living and dying....I feel like Ive made progress in many ways too however listening to Tim always makes me think that have I actually made progress or am I still just hiding my pain and self hate by trying to do good deeds and say good things which then makes me a narcissist according to his teachings and that thought makes me feel so so very sad.....Im just trying to understand all of this. Lord please heal my heart and soul as I truly dont want to to keep living this way...x
Except for avoiding to get pregnant, I'm avoiding the world but not because I think I'm dangerous, it's because I'm not mature enough to deal with with more crappy relationships... Burned out and in freeze mode, unfortunately.
@@almondmilksoda I’m right in the middle right now, I think… thank you for sharing and expressing
@@HisHiddenTreasure777 Hey, I know you weren’t initially talking to me about anything but I read your comment and I just want to say, I know EXACTLY how you feel:(
trying to find the line between doing what I feel is right for me and what I feel is right for others is… hard, because I don’t want to DO ANYTHING that might hurt someone again but then again… while I don’t know for certain, I want to believe that there isn’t anything wrong with *reciprocity*.
It’s that give-n-take, and as long as you feel you’re being fair AND the people you’re reciprocating your life with feel the same, then WE are at *peace*.
Love and hugs to you🙏💜♥❣✌
Narcissists aren't the only ones who get triggered. Victims of Narcissistic abuse have triggers too. A trigger is just a sign that some hot button issue has not been dealt with. The real sign of Narcissism is a lack of Empathy.
@@AffectionateSeaOtter narcissists tend to start out as victims. I'm not saying they aren't problematic, but their childhood experiences created it. Compassion can heal people in pain
@@Sarah-with-an-H No it cannot. Compassion alone cannot heal. Healing requires a PERSONAL DECISION to CHANGE and starts with remorse and accountability i.e. acknowledging your own responsibility, something Narcissists are incapable of doing or understanding. They lack Empathy so they feel no Remorse either. And there is no such thing as personal accountability in their books because they set their own rules in life and make and break them as they please without regard for the consequences or impact on OTHERS.. And Narcissists don't START out as victims any more than the abused do and yet, NOT all abused individuals turn into Narcissists later in Life. You are trying very hard to find excuses for their behaviour. NO excuses will change them unfortunately.
@@AffectionateSeaOtter compassion heals compassion for yourself and people around you and the wisdom of knowing you can't change anyone but yourself if you want to. Understanding how an individual got that way can make a world of difference in perception because simply seeing somebody as evil isn't it
I'm actually surprised people forget this. Because back in the 80's every kids movie had messages that even the most evil character had something very human flawed and even redeeming about them. Because nobody is pure evil or pure good. We're all just trying to survive. and even the most good characters had negative things about them. When did we forget and become so black and white? Avoidance of the darkest parts don't make them go away it makes the darkness the focal point
@@Sarah-with-an-H It must be the 80s movies then that has caused people to have the wrong perceptions. The line of reasoning in these messages, that we should put up with a Narcissists' abusive behaviors because 'no one is perfect or 100% evil or good, is pretty dangerous because they are making us completely ignore the fact that what we call Evil in thus world starts somewhere small where it is brushed aside as being 'not that bad' or 'not as bad as the next bad thing up the assembly line of mental and spiritual pathology'. If you have truly dealt with a Narcissist, both closely and ling term, you would know enough not to be making these frivolous statements and assumptions. There are countless families, and families that I know personally, including the one I was born in, where the entire family was subjected to Narcissistic abuse (because the quiet truth is behind every abuse there is a Narcissist) ....but not all individuals subjected to the SAME abuse in the SAME family (environment) ended up becoming a Narcissist later on Life. Why didn't and why don't they to the present day? Does that question not deserve merit? It's a very legit qs. and it gives insights into the workings of the human mind (and soul) and offers an explanation for why some people follow one direction in life and some (even frim the same Family of origin) the other exact opposite path. The answer is Free Will, it is a conscious CHOICE they make. As such their choice determines their outcome for which they are themselves responsible. They can blame their abusive families for the pain and trauma just like the other siblings can but their choice to toss Empathy out of their lives is theirs alone because the other siblings in the SAME Family had the same choice but they chose not to (toss Empathy out) . The same can be observed in Twin studies. If every child who was abused ended up becoming a Narcissist then your argument would carry a lot of weight. Both human observation and social experiments show us repeatedly that's not the case. The outcome is NOT just determined by the good or bad circumstances we are born and raised in but also (and more so) by the choices we make in life and we have to take accountability for that. Sadly, accountability is the very thing that Narcissists run away from because it correctly puts the responsibility back where it belongs i e. with the person making the choice
@@AffectionateSeaOtter who said your supposed to put up with someone treating you badly. I never suggested that. You're giving your abusers power though
I've been told I have narcissistic traits. There are things that I have done over the years that I did not realize I was doing. My wife was the one who told me that I have the traits, but doesn't think I am a narcissist. I am 48 and far more aware of my behaviors now than ever before. I self medicated with marijuana for more than 30 years and quit about a year and a 1/2 ago. My father was definitely a narcissist, and he got that from his dad. It was behavior that only we in the house saw, not the outside world... I know where I got it from. Watching Tim helps me and it also hurts me at the same time, if that makes sense. I'm getting better though sometimes it feels like three steps forward two steps back. I will not give up.
You knew EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE DOING. - INGVAR K. FUKNARK 🎸 🔥
Honestly, hats off to you for recognizing this and wanting to be better on your own accord and for those you love
You may not be a narc if you are able to self reflect. Do you have empathy for others? You are not necessarily one if it was in your family.
When they get mad at you they love to remind you of what they did for you and call you ungrateful 👿.
Wow. Thank you Tim. I never understood why my narcissistic mother would batter me daily when I was a child. I was terrified of speaking or doing anything, because I thought she was beating me due to something I said or did. So I would hide to avoid her and remain completely silent. I had no idea she was beating me, because she actually wanted my attention. 🤷♀️
I had no idea she was JEALOUS of other people having my attention. She would always try to get rid of all my friends. I knew she craved attention, but my fear of her pushed me away from her.
She was a toxic narcissist.
Powerful stuff man. My step dad has some characteristics like this. He only takes an interest in you when he wants something and gets you to open up only to use it against you later.
Very sad... 😔
Yep, try "grey rocking" until you can permanently leave him. Good luck, buddy.
@@ZiptiesAndButterflies what's grey rocking
@@ML-ov7wo The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain as boring and neutral as a grey rock. Narcissistic people tend to feed off of their victims' reactions and crave attention. Also, they use all information you give them against you.
Tim is absolutely right. Been there.
Yep, yep, yep!!!😉
People with high narcissism traits are happy to bring up everything you do wrong or the things they disagree with, but if you mention anything you question in them, suddenly you’re attacking them and obviously just sensitive.
Sometimes they are getting everything they’ve asked for, then they are bored. They can go sideways just because they are bored. They can also go sideways at home when they are triggered at work or on the road driving home.
!!
It's amazing how every work u say is so true!!! OMG my ex and mother!! Ugh I'm healing.
This is why I struggle with trusting peoples intentions
I have zero sympathy for these types, they know what they are doing, they siphon the victim off and abuse them when no one else is around. They wear a mask in front of others.
Yep. They are among the most evil people out there.
I find reading "zero empathy for ... " an unsettling line. You dont have to love anyone, just try to understand the grey bits, the nuances, how something or someone is built. They were an innocent child once too and were not the one to choose how they were going to grow.
✌🏽🌼
@@slimshany4602maybe they weren’t an innocent child .. I know one so entitled and badly behaved IN KINDERGARTEN … that his own cousin moved away so he didn’t have to be in the same school with him ! Appalling behavior as a 5 year old - no parent was able to tame him- no other kids in class could learn because he was literally bouncing off the walls.. in kindergarten ! Grew up to be a junky / alcoholic wife beating narcissist - did a lot of jail time ( assault, drugs, theft $… interestingly, a model prisoner.. no misbehaving in jail where the other prisoners will beat you up … out of jail, slapping his wife around and on drugs … very occasionally worked doing landscaping… .. I empathize with all his victims ( from toddler hood on )…
@@lucyt-c8092 I get what your saying, ofcourse such can be the case. But ut is its parents responsibility to take proper care of their child, and doesnt seem to be the case.
But nevertheless is bringing up children and pets difficult and weird in a way that people are not being informed and going on obligatory courses to know how to care and guide to shape them in a good way.
@@slimshany4602 They were evil while still in the womb...
I'm 62 years old never even heard the term narcissist until about 3 years ago. Ever since covid hit it seemed like it's everywhere now.
THIS COMMENT!
Yes! Everyone is a Narc now.
@@vanessarenae5169 Like you?
I'm not a narcissist. I am trying to survive, and I'm happy to be alone.
Grew up with 2 narcissistic parents and a narcissistic sister. Married one and one of my kid is. I am EXHAUSTED
I’m sorry the curse got to your child. That must hurt. 😔
@@jarrod210478 it is. Thank you for saying. Feels like my life has been just one long punishment. :(
Dang
@@jarrod210478 Well, didnt he marry its mom/dad ...?
@@Courgette65 it always rubs me a bit the wrong way when people describe their child as a narcissist (or any other mental health term). Because... You played a big role in causing that... I feel like it just sends the wrong message
If you have grown up being groomed, you learn to survive in the environment - you cross lines to "fit in" and start people pleasing and put on masks to cover the truth. Its never your ideal situation but the rationale is you settle for something is better than nothing.
I’ve just had a huge blow up with a friend but have come to the very sad conclusion that she’s a narcissist and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to influence change. Because all is rosy until I say something she doesn’t like. Saddest part of all, is she’s so fond of “holding up a mirror” for others to see their flaws 😢
Omgggg literally! This is also the friend that pretends like everything in their life is perfect just perfect! A facade is what it is. Can’t own up to anything they’ve done to you either. Then turn it around on you when it’s too much to take accountability for. Like how do you just make it about you ?
Omg! Thankyou 🙏 That was the exact last reason why I walked after 2 years on & off... I dared say no to something trivial for the first time..he's ghosted me. That's the moment I knew categorically he is a covert narc! Done 😉
Spot on!
I would say “great 99% of the time” is an unlikely percentage. Their sensitivity to being “victimized” is so high. Lot of this is clear and helpful to hear, though. 🙏🏻Thank you.
Worsen with age & can no longer control their inner turmoil in public
@@caroleminke6116yes.....they worsen. 😕
Agreed
My ex was all this AND also provided reel proof that suggested I might just be the narcissist in the relationship. I lost who I was. I dint know if he was hurt and genuinely communicating or pulling the strings on me and making me guilt love him. Anyways, it was the most chaotic and stressful thing that happened to me. Thank God for healing gurus like Tim.
Narcs main operative (MO) is lying / gaslighting. I'm guessing it is all lies... If you are capable of empathy for others, you are fine.
I still can’t tell if im a narcissist or not after 23 years… I hate more than anything the idea that all the positive things I’ve done have been for personal satisfaction and not because I wanted to for the good of it. I just want to be able to work on becoming a person and not an angry mess that hides behind hating others because I hate myself the most
Your a brave person to say such a statement and I relate to what you are saying for myself too...Lord heal our hearts and minds Amen
Same.
Everyone does things for a complicated combination of personal satisfaction and altruism. I really have a problem with labelling people in this manner. No one fits exactly into a box.
@@A10011true, labelling doesn't help except to know when you're dealing with a pathological narc and there's no hope for change, ever. Better to let them go and start healing. More importantly, practice grey rocking, while in the relationship and no contact while out of it. Understanding narcissism helps with putting this into practice and healing
@@ArchAngel435healing takes compassion for yourself and people around you. I believe it's possible to heal. I'm practicing stepping back before acting out. Oftentimes I'm not even aware of how I feel and why. So checking in on myself first helps me recognize triggers before becoming reactionary.
Hmmm, sounds like a child, like a person is stuck in childhood.
Lack of separation from mother by age 3 for any reason causes a lack of object constancy or whole object relations because they didn’t utilize a transitional object like a pet or a blanket or stuffed animal to soothe their separation anxiety❤️🩹 shame, abandonment anxiety & CPTSD create these extreme codependent behaviors
@@caroleminke6116
That's the other side of childhood trauma. Complex PTSD is not the same than NPD or antisocial personality disorders.
@@Lyrielonwind Tim has even said if you have C-PTSD you have narcissistic traits. Sadly the pop psychology rhetoric is full of gaslighting misconceptions and lies. That fact that pop psychology gets so much wrong keeps the cycle going so nobody heals and grows because if they do heal there goes the $$$$$ too
They are children in adult bodies. They are stuck between the ages of 7 to 15 yrs old according to some experts, while others say they are stuck between 3 to 9 yrs old. But nevertheless they are children.
@@GIwillo yes, and loads of neglect and condemnation
And what you don’t see is that the covert narcissist is playing the victim when they don’t get what they want, planting lies as they do, and then come back and try and emotionally blackmail you to get what you have already said no to. It’s the behind the scenes stuff that is the mind mess that takes ages to unravel.
Yes, they want an apology for your refusing to put up with their emotional and psychological warfare. It is so subtle. Start recording your arguments with them and documenting the context. It will be revealing. You also notice things about yourself that you need to change
Not only Trauma. So wrong on that. Also entitlement, spoiling and enabling creates them.
You are so right!
Covert Narcissist for a good chunk of my life. Last 11 years has been rough but Im grateful. ❤
Yes, so emotional neglect and more trauma can also be the case when a child grows up in wealth. Lots of emptyness and inner scarring, too little socialisation skills.
Its never a happy disorder..! ✌🏽💛
100% correct playing mind games the whole time.
Recording conversations helped me to see just how manipulative he was. You forget a lot without evidence.
I started documenting arguments and what was happening during that time...saw trends
And recorded arguments.
If it wasn't for doing that I believe I would have continued to gaslight myself for life or to my death bed from the emotional turmoil
Exactly describes my ex husband. He never did ask me about myself when we first met, but used information that he had gleaned from other sources. Walked on eggshells for 25 yrs
I think a defining trait of narcissists is the intentional damage they do to other people.
Or, is that more psychopathic?
I think it's all on a spectrum, narcissistic -sociopathy etc, not just clear cut black and white
Both, they know what they are doing. It falls into a spectrum but both have sadistic traits and won't be able and won't care for intro inspection because they don't care and they won't do it. Intro inspection is "craziness for them"...a blasphemy.
Psychopathy/sociopathy is the highest degree of narcissism. All sociopaths/psychopaths (antisocial personality disorder) are narcissists but not all narcissists are antisocial.
Thank you Tim🙏☀️🧡
this describes both my parents
How about sneaky
Oh yes they are very sneaky and are pathological liars.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness,
and all these things will be added to you.” Matthew 6: 32-33
“I am the light of the world.
Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness,
but will have the light of life.”
John 8:12
“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me.
For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me will find it.”
Matthew 16: 24-25
His will be done.
@@amyhenningsgard8618 I have been wondering what that looks like. I'm a middle aged scapecoat of 2 narcissistic parents. I am a Christian, they " claim" to be. My mother is sadistic and doesn't care that she's ruined my health ( textbook). She twists scripture when triggered, then a couple months later, love bombs & the cycle continues. I've prayed, gotten pastors involved etc. Unsure how God's will is being done in this situation. She's bad mouthed me and yes I've prayed for them from a far.
t love this video! It puts everything I am finally deeply understanding in a NUTSHELL. Thank you kindly.
they are like a snake waiting to devour you once they are big enough to swallow you whole
💯 true
I’ve seen this remarked on this guy’s videos before, but- Codependency, cPTSD, and Narcissism are not the same things. Codependents also try to pour love into someone to try to get the same love back, and can also have meltdowns. The difference, I suppose, is that the codependent knows when they’ve done something wrong.
Codependents have been molded by the Narcissist to be submissive and servile.... different children react to parental abuse differently.
The Narcissist usually picks a golden child to mold into a mini-me...
I've done intense and deep research on this topic he's close, but in many ways, the information is incomplete and inaccurate.
He isn't blurring those lines. The thing with narcissism is that anyone can have these traits. Including the codependent,
@@CTHD13 or, the codependent imagines they've done something wrong even when they haven't, even when it's others who've wronged them.
Accountability
Narcissists are often caused by spoiling making the kid think she is extra special (as is said about Meghan Markle) but also poisonous sibling rivalry. This was definitely the case with my mother, the baby of the family, apple of her father's eye but hated by her two sisters on account of it. I also believe, given her sexual acting out, she hated my grandmother as a rival for her father's affectioniving her histrionic traits. There was also the intimation of incest, real or imagined, with a slightly older brother.
The " golden child" who is molded into the image of the narcissistic parent.
Other children are forced into other roles....
Sorry nonsense..Narcs are emotionally invalidated psychologically (and often physically) abused children.The golden child is but one of the many roles..spoiling a child is abuse..you deny them coping mechanisms to deal with the real world.
You describe here a narc family so it's not the spoiling per se but strong narcissistic traits. My ex husband came from such a family, his grandfather was grandiose ( never met his parents) and two of his siblings have strong narc traits but he is a pathological narc. I had to let him go after 25 yrs of marriage as his toxicity was getting me down.
@@ArchAngel435 My maternal grandmother and grandfather were not narcissistic. The interaction between the rotten sisters was a breeding ground for grandiosity, with each competing with the other. My youngest brother fulfilled the role of golden boy, because an insufferable,
religious, self-righteous narcisisst
Highly recomended.
This is my sister in law to a tee. She was always a fad chaser and spending money on the latest thing even when she didn't have the money. But she has become an attention seeking black hole. A succubus hell bent on draining you until you are an empty meat sack puddled on the floor. Their mom died and I knew she was going to lose her mind but it's been epic, to point of collapse. I tried to warn the other sibling about the incoming storm but they were slow to take heed. Just try going through probate and settling an estate with one on these defective people. It's long story up to this moment but somehow I knew I'd have to either sue her for defamation or get a restraining order on her and her family. Yes it has gone to that level. Oh it turns out my MIL was a covert type of narcissist who helped create this monster while screwing up her other kids. The other sibling aren't narcs, but are extremely intelligent and suffer with crippling anxiety, followed by self medicating with alcohol. That woman did a number on all of them. Such a horrible personality disorder that destroys families. I just have PTSD from soaking in this crazy BS. It's almost over and I can't wait to go no contact.
Grant it, these are very simple, brief explanations - for any one, particularly an empath who is highly responsible (as in coming from a childhood of having to grow up beyond their years having resulted from caregivers that were emotionally immature, or psychologically unwell; addiction, mental health issues, etc.) and thinks they may have /have had relationships with this personality structure; the vulnerable (covert) narcissist, I encourage you to watch 'Covert Narcissism playlist' by Vital Mind Coaching (he's Australian - you'll know by the accent 😉).
Understanding and educating yourself is key to your own healing. As Tim explains here, this personality structure was created by a caregiver who 'installed all the right buttons'; abuse, neglect; trauma.
Due to intense identification of self as the ego - individuals with these personality structures will not accept the help they need (it's a forever loop, cycling) and they can only take you down with them. By the time you see through the mask, the facade - you're YEARS into it - it's the 'how do you boil a frog' scenario ... you don't know wtf hit you or why you feel like something is so wrong with you when they're 'so wonderful' - and would never hurt a fly. It's said the vulnerable/covert narcissist is more destructive than their overtly grandiose counterparts. From my experience - I would agree.
Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. 🕊 🫶 💪 🪷
Getting close to a narcissist is the most efficient way to find your own undiscovered trauma, because boy do they jam fingers in your brain!!!
You can outsmart them though, they are very predictable and ALWAYS grandiose
These videos are interesting, but not necessarily the complete picture of narcissism and I believe (from experience) that narcissists can "emerge" from perfectly normal & good homes, families, parents etc..
Were you expecting a short version of Macbeth?
Normal families don’t psychologically and emotionally invalidated their children and not meet many of their needs.Your beliefs are unfortunately not facts.
The people you have experienced have narcissistic traits which is far different from pathological narcissism. I know, I was married to one for 25 yrs, came from a narc family. Understood from Prof Sam Vaknin what I was really dealing with. Had to let him go as his toxicity was getting me and the children down
I came across a 40 y/o man acquaintance whose parents: 1 an attorney and one a doctor. To myself I thought, their son should be set in life priorities. Nope, he was a womanizer, has 2 rental cabins. If a woman asks to rent, he 'requires 5 x a day sex'. And easily screams.😮
Telling people if they get angry, 1% of the time, or jealous, that this is their true colours showing through, is really quite a dark and damaging perspective. Just because someone might get angry or jealous 1% of the time certainly doesn’t make them a narcissist.
I love Tim Fletchers work and recommend him so often, but I think his understanding of narcissism needs some work. 😀
I plead the blood of Yeshua over you,
right here right now, wherever you are.
God, send your Holy Spirit
on the one who writes this,
and on the ones who read this...
Give them peace and joy and bliss and health and wealth and love.
Repent and allow Abba to hold you in His arms.
Cry to Him about your pain, He loves you. He won't mind.
He'll show you a way out.
God bless you.
NO WEAPONS FORMED AGAINST ME SHALL PROSPER
NO WEAPONS FORMED AGAINST MY FAMILY SHALL PROSPER
I AM RIGHT HERE EXACTLY WHERE I AM SUPPOSED TO BE
Love this!!! Thank you ❤
Amen . Praise the Lord for his grace and mercy. Who heals us and brings us through all of this .
I claim this in the name of Yehusha ❤️🙏
So much more powerful than a praying hands emoji. 🤍
Not all narcissists art developed from extreme environments. Many are developed by the exact opposite where the parents baby them and give them a sense of entitlement.
Evil people! Thank goodness I'm free from this now that I've gone no contact!
Not evil, human. No single person is pure evil. Compassion from a safe distance heals.
It's cool to be out of the mine-fields. Being able to leave your guard down... but even then, nightmares 😢
@@Sarah-with-an-H
Allow him/her to get some distance.
Forgiveness comes with healing, nothing you can or should impose on others.
@@Lyrielonwind I'm saying compassion can help heal the narcissist, but also compassion helps a person to not become a narcissist
@@Sarah-with-an-Hnothing can change a narcissist
Is alcohol abuse common in narcissists? I know someone who acts that way when they’re very drunk.
My mother was a narcissist. I dealt with it for 46 years until
She died. The verbal, emotional, and physical abuse finally went away. Then my husband took her spot. He’s been cheating on me and making me feel like it’s all my fault why he is cheating then he says he loves me but he’s sexually attracted to skinny pretty women. I am so torn down.
Sheesh this is just sweeping with too broad a brush for me. The idea that “giving to get” is inherently narcissistic is confusing. I think it’s a fundamental reality that relationships are transactional to a great degree and theres a potential danger in not addressing a lack of mutual transaction. I don’t think you’re a narcissist for expecting some level of the effort you give reflected from the people that would claim to love/care for you.
I can be verbally abusive, I’m just seeing that now.
It does come from a fear of abandonment. I’ve learnt that from your abandonment video. But somebody acting out 1% of the time if they’re in an intimate relationship… Usually with a narcissist who triggers them. Does not make them a narcissist.
I love your videos Tim I’ve learnt so much from them and continue to do so, and recommend them all the time to people. But you are not clear in your understanding of what a narcissist. You seem to see everyone is a narcissist if they react out of an emotionally wounded place at all, ever.
For clarity on what a narcissist is, here is a brilliant video…
m.th-cam.com/video/aa75ynfu4WI/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUnbWVsYW5pZSB0b25pYSBldmFucyBhbSBpIHRoZSBuYXJjaXNzaXN0
Please share how to get out of the narcasistic mindset if you are one
Can non-narcissistic people (especially in the extreme life circumstances) also be “triggered” and lash out, or is this specifically a NPD trait?
I don’t think the only reason is trauma we were not abusive parents and grew up in a loving family there has to be a neurological component as well
Out of curiosity, is Narcissistic traits stemed from traumatic experiences? I understand that as we get older some behaviors are cemented as long term behaviors. Also, my understanding is Narcissists are a clinical diagnosis, not something thats "Triggered behavior" (DSM-V) traits are constant not always a on and off switch. Doesn't sound like Narcissism if its a trigger. As a student, peer to peer critique is valued in my profession.
Good question because I dated an avoidant last year, and the tellings signs within the attachment community is that question: Are they an avoidant or a narcissist?
We all relate to experiencing some form of narcissistic trait... Would that mean they're on the spectrum? Picked up behaviours due to past experiences?
It's interesting
@@DobermanDanK9 I wouldn't classify it or give it names like that people have all kinds of behaviors for all kinds of reasons do you ever ask them why they do that behavior or what does it you can do to help facilitate or lubricate the process so that behavior doesn't have to be as dominant communication man it's not dead we just need to practice it better
@@DobermanDanK9 avoidance is a behavioral challenge, and should be wrestled with, not accepted for being something that's uncontrollable. But too much control signals other behaviors. Psychology is one of the hardest fields to work in and study. If it was so simple and easy... oh, oh no... yeah I guess a lot of people pseudo Psychology others because they read Friedrich Nietzsche, or Carl Jung. Not knowing Jung based most of his research on Fredian ideals and principles. That I learned from an other Psychology student who has lived in Germany her whole life. And studies Freudian psychology like I do
The main difference is a narcissist has no emotional empathy & see nothing wrong with how they treat people, where a person with narcissistic traits have these triggers due to abuse but they do have enough empathy to care about how they’re treating people when it’s brought to their attention& thus will work towards changing it.Over time & with work the empathy can increase so they’ll learn to treat people better because they care enough to change. Does that help? I hope I explained it well. 🙏🏼❤️🩹
@@triplejmom7826 I have to hard disagree, what separates the real from pseudo is the frequency and consistency. In cases of severe trauma someone can lose their sense of empathy or compassion for another person because they're dealing with their own emotions. Once that trial period is done if they don't return to baseline and they haven't sought out treatment there may be underlying issues whereas with a real narcissist it's not something they turn off or on its constant and it doesn't apply to 1 person over another it applies to everybody
Im confused about all this narcissists and co dependents stuff. Its kinda like to be neither 100 percent is impossible, youd basically be a robot. I dont know. Its interesting but its exhausting to think what I am or what someone else might be. I m not sure if humans can be put into a simple set of labels and diagnosis.
The birthplace of narcissism is also being over indulged as a child and doing no wrong…..You didn’t mention that but this is what happened to my narc ex husband.
Is Tim trying to say here that a covert narissist/co-narissist is a co-dependent?
Yes.
Seems it may be that it takes one to know one, and by this assessment everyone just might be a narcissist, God help us 🙏
✅ good video
I just found out I am the narcissist😢
At least partly.....
What do you call people then, who accuse someone as a narcissist, yet these people in their life go on really normal etc..but then they too can have an experience where they have it all their own way, yet they had an upbringing where they were over protected, that all through their own marriage still had their provisions met by their family, yet didn't earn enough to see to their own needs, or their wife and 4 children. Yet they are nice, polite and doing for more outside their own family.
Looking good in others eyes, yet family suffers.
So what's the goal then? Is there an opposite to a narcissist like a non-human?
It’s dangerous for people to consider that trauma creates narcissist because they won’t change
Yes thats true. Omg.
Then why didn’t I become a narcissist. I suffered extreme abuse and toxic shame and neglect.
by this logic, aren't most people narcissists? most people have needs they want met. are they only narcissists if they get angry and say mean things when they don't get what they want? because a lot of people get like that when their needs are denied
Not conscience. Never apologize. Say it never happened. Blame you for their actions. Tell you it was all your fault. This makes them a narcissist. We all have things that we want fulfilled from others. Maybe once or twice we might say something mean to someone being immature. After we think about it we would probably apologize or feel shame. We would expect the person we yelled at not to talk to us or to be upset with our behavior. We wouldn’t tell them it was all their fault or insist that we never yelled or called them nasty things. First version is a narcissist.
most people express their need/s..narcissists MANIPULATE you into meeting their needs because they dont trust anyone to meet them...and a Narc will never meet your emotional needs because they are incapable of doing so-devoid of empathy and they will also BLAME YOU for them not accepting nor validating nor meeting your needs.So no MOST PEOPLE ARE NARCISSISTS
What is not expressed in this short presentation is that having narcissistic tendencies is different from having Narcissistic Personality *Disorder*
I wrote a similar comment myself. Tim is absolutely brilliant and spot on in so many ways, but his understanding of what a narcissist is. I think I need some clarity.
And I think that he just victim blamed perhaps unconsciously, but he just basically said anyone who gets angry or jealous ever, that’s who they really are. Not a good person who relates healthy 99% of the time.
I would be like saying to your child, who is a good child who is well-behaved and does everything they can to be a good kid, the moment they get angry or jealous…thats their true colours coming through. Awful thing to say. And just because you get angry or jealous, does not make you a narcissist. It usually means you’re in a relationship with one
I believe that I have narcisstic traits. I feel like the biggest trigger are other narcissists.
If youve recognised that then you can work on it. try to avoid narcissits, possibly just picked up some of their traits
So you’re describing a as well, I would like to know are any of these victims benefiting from living with these people like the narcissist buying them a car buying them a home taking them on vacation working while they stay at home that’s what I like to know, I hear all the negativity, but I don’t hear the positives that the victims are getting If a person is a victim, then leave the relationship don’t start saying oh no it’s too hard you can leave the relationship anytime you want unless they are physically abusive and your fear for your life but 90% is not so get some self-esteem get a backbone and leave, but without the benefits that you have encountered throughout the relationship
Covert narcissists are a whole different breed!
Maybe worth a talk to delineate the polar opposite of the grandiose.
Hiding in plain sight in their strategic vulnerability
I think you need to be a bit clearer, because the way you’re describing it is anyone who snaps and gets angry or jealous…is a narcissist.
So by this definition an honest, authentic accountable person who gets involved with a narcissist and then that narcissist uses their wounds to trigger them into jealousy and anger, is themselves a narcissist?
So everyone on the planet is a narcissist, then according to this. Unless they are absolutely perfect and never get angry or jealous.
It's a lot like cPTSD
Trauma is usually the cause of all the bullshit. They don't want to take responsibility
Narcissism probably comes as a result of CPTSD, when there’s a genetic propensity for it.
A lot of these people have entity attachments.
I mean take that for instance. The pain and rage I feel watching helplessly, caring for the other species as if they are my children. As God does. And it’s so obvious it’s wrong. A 3 year old could understand it. The animals get nutrients from the soil plants and water. We can go directly to those sources too, and our bodies were designed to do so.
Everybody knows one detail about what happens to just one of those animals, that is so horrific, it’s too evil to comprehend.
And yet people capable of complex thinking and healing their human relationships. People who are capable of all the human ingenuity, technologically, creatively. And you can’t understand what a three-year-old could understand? You feel nothing as you torture in such diabolical. There are no words for how evil. Ways.
You make pleasant family rituals out of it. Use it as the highlight of your day. Of your year.
You live to eat and at the end of the day, which is coming pretty soon, you will have destroyed all life on Earth just for pure greed, in the cruellest way imaginable.
And I’m the narcissist?
Every day I meditate to release the pain, the injustice, the helplessness I feel. And I even am getting back to being able to put all that aside, connect to God and help people again.
But that I felt so angry I could only see people the way I’ve just described, and said what you would consider the ‘most terrible things’. The truth is, you should all be feeling the way I feel about what is the most obvious wrong that has ever been.
And until you do, I’m carrying all of that, me and the few others who are not speciesist and utterly heartless, on this planet.
The truth does hurt sometimes.
But your feelings are not what should be being focused on. There are animals being tortured right now they’re the ones whose feelings you should care about.
This is a 100% description of Trump. The malignant narcissist.😊
That's what the bs msm want us to believe.. I thought the same as you for years. Then I did my own research on him from when he was a young man.. on TH-cam. A leopard never changes it's spots.. These Narcs in power can't have a good soul on board. Coz they will do good for us the masses then they will lose their power, control & money. All good presidents are assinated... It makes sence 🙏
“ fuck you you never spend time with me !!! I haaaaate you ( 31 year old husband/lawyer) “ - “ I’m just trying to plan our wedding .. you’re not helping. At all ? “
“You have no idea how much it hurt me when we were walking around and you were looking at other men ! ( says the serial cheater- serial eye wanderer - escort user abuser, - porn and sex addict - also this never happened i was more loyal than anything ) - sir what ?!? Making up lies out of no where just to try to get something on me
Wow narcissist don't know how to love you they only know how to use you
This is mother
They made my dad go to sleep early because i ate some beef... at 2000 08.14.24
Although I’m a narcissist, I’m also very empathetic. The question really becomes what does the other person wish to bring out? If I were with someone, who had no desire to ease my troubles, it’s only a matter of time before I choose the same for their fortunes. Basically, what I’m hearing is you don’t care what trauma the other person has been through. You’re not willing to help find a path of trust. You see no desire for their comfort. You prefer to abolish the mentality they use with truth and gaslighting them into seeing the narcissist traits they use. Are you trying to tell me, this is proper abuse? Because I hear fighting an emotional mess of a person with more abuse. That’s no way to help someone you love cope through. Give a little sympathy for what another person has been through. Chances are, you are the person who put them in this narcissistic state of being. You refuse to allow them comfort. They have to find it through pain. I’m sorry Tim, but I disagree with your philosophical analogy of narcissistic values. And I’m a narcissist. Aren’t you?
I would say you are Narcissistic.
Tim is talking about true Narcissists. People with Narcissistic personality disorder cannot feel empathy.
Their world is "alliances" and " transactions".
Full blown NPDdoesnt want your empathy it wants your compliance to control.You clearly have never been in a relationship with a real Narc…you can’t ‘love’ them well or healthy.They are a lost cause.
My mother is a narcissist I cut her off but then six years later after wasting six whole years in therapy I learned on my own after my therapist moved out of the country, that my sister is also a narcissist and my stepmother and honestly my father too! My mother is a covert narcissist with histrionic personality disorder, my sister is an overt one always bragging about herself it’s very bad very jealous, Stepmother is a passive aggressive covert narcissist and honestly she’s the most toxic one because almost no one notices it and it’s so obvious just looking at her face😂 I’m pretty sure they’re screwing up my little brother because all he does is over eat and play video games to cope I feel terrible for him because he’s starting to realize something is wrong with my stepmother a.k.a. his mother she said herself that he called her crying and said you don’t care about my personal life you just care about my accomplishments in school
Your analysis is self referential?
Remember for a lot of narcists its unconscious
I agree many are totally unconscious or aware. Their self was est before the age 6-7. What was left is permant totally self involved. Victumhood blaming miserable INNOCENT UNHELPABLE
That is very true. Many narcissists coming out of complex trauma have no idea that this is what they are doing - they've adapted based on their experiences. As a result, many people come to realize later in life that they have narcissistic traits. Recognizing it and acting in kindness to yourself and others while addressing this behaviour is a big first step.
The shame may be subconscious but they are very aware of their abusive tactics & don’t try to change but simply hide them from public view so that you live with cognitive dissonance as well as no support or understanding from others who can’t even see the problems
@@TimFletcher I believe I'm a narcissist I don't like that I recognize it, but I also know the only way out is with honesty and acknowledging the reality. I tend to keep to myself because I don't want to hurt anyone as hurting others always causes me an incredible amount of pain and grief. I also recognize how dysfunctional my entire family is, but I'm the only one that's remotely aware of that. Any time I hurt someone it's completely unconscious though. I'm shy, introverted, and cynical. I'm pretty sure I'm a covert narcissist. If I do hurt someone it's because I was protecting myself from abuse. It's truly complicated
@@caroleminke6116 don't assume I'm not aware of being abusive when I'm triggered. By the time I'm triggered it's too late. I try my hardest to be calm and take a step back to explore my emotions, because often times I don't even know how I feel I'm just reacting. But when I successfully practice that stepping back and checking in with myself I can avoid that reactionary knee jerk response. Reality is being abusive hurts me as much or more because I realize it's me expressing that I'm a piece of garbage and unworthy of anything good. Narcissists usually really hate themselves. Any show of loving themselves is an act it's essentially fake it till you make it, but making it never comes.
WRONG! Narcissists were NOT created from other "severe narcissists" through trauma, they were a narcissist at birth. I'm tired of all the sympathy and excuses for narcissists! I was raised by two extreme narcissists who invoked physical, sexual, and mental abuses upon me, however I still CHOSE to be a good, loving, empathic human being! Very good description otherwise. Thanks for educating the masses.
@@ZiptiesAndButterflies ah, I see. You believe people are born bad because your own parents had very bad behaviors and you haven't yet learned about intergenerational trauma and you think you are a "better" person who just "chose" to do better than others choose to. But you know, what you're saying has a contradiction. If people are BORN a certain way, say narcissistic, then they can't just CHOOSE to be better. So if *you're* NOT an abusive person (although the way you talk about children makes me doubt that), then you couldn't have CHOSEN that, that's just the way you were born. So what your'e saying doesn't make sense. You didn't choose anything, you were just born that way, according to your line of reasoning.
@@penyarol83 Good point. You are exactly right. I am an empath because I was born one. And I thought I was usually good at noticing inconsistencies. The older I get the more I realize I am so far away from the person I wish I was. Do I think I'm better. Honestly, most of the time, I do. But, then sometimes I wonder if it is just how the universe creates opposites to drive the whole system as flesh/matter. I wonder if there was ever a start to it all if it is not by choice (ones soul I mean), and if so there certainly wouldn't be any merit for assigning one to "good" and "bad". I currently believe that we carry the same soul from life time to life time, but maybe that's just me wanting some accountability. The only time I feel compassion for narcissists anymore is when I wonder if our souls all eventually experience both sides in different lifetimes. Then I think, oh I should be loving, cause I just happen to be on this side now. Although I think this side is much worse based on my life thus far, I still rather be an empath, but maybe that's just my ego. I have no clue in reality... I guess to your point it feels mostly like it is not a choice, but that state can be slightly changed over a lifetime. Can those slight changes add up to how a soul starts? Maybe we have no freewill at all. Your guess is as good as mine.
This is my husband
Isn't a covert narcissist a people pleaser then?
Speaking as covert in therapy, the answer is YES!! Also when Tim talks about the “moon effect”, that’s the covert trying to build some sort of self esteem which fails, because it’s built on other people (codependency) and not on the covert learning to stand on their own two feet. Thank God I didn’t have children!!!❤
This guy is describing a narcissist all the negatives in the relationship but are the victims benifiting with t to his er