I mean, these business skills need to be taught in all design universities. I had all the design skills & tech background - but absolutely no game. So I struggled financially all my life. Don't be me! Watch these videos. Exchanging a percentage for design skills? NEVER crossed my mind, didn't even know it was option on the table. I want to know all of the options. Please do more of these videos. You are changing people's lives for the better!
They don't because a huge amount of instructors are failed creatives.. I was super lucky and had some awesome tuition at University of Westminister! Ole Boysen the man is a legend.. but he only told the people that asked him about these things... He showed us a window it's our job to climb through and see the world for our selves..
Only you limit yourself. Don’t think of it as trading people or items, think of it as trading assets. Like on the stock market they always say, Intrinsic value is a result not a cause.
@sirena noone can be you, but yourself. BUT NEVER sell yourself short. You can rebuild everything, you only need the will and the motivation for it. :)
wow.....It's amazing how Chris seems to analyze every scenario in a split second. It shows just how deep of a thinker he is. Amazing video as always and EXTREMELY useful since I get this thrown at me all the time. Thanks!!!
As usual, Chris nailed it. Exposure gigs are maybe ok if you're still studying, or it's a cause you believe in. These days if anyone tries the "Do it for the exposure" line, I usually respond, "Do you know people die from exposure?"
My biggest issue is doing work for free. I've spent the last decade doing creative design and video work for my church as the creative director, so charging was really hard for me. Thanks to The Futur and learning my value, I'm able to say "no" to free work and clear up time for clients. The church is all the charity I can handle.
Griptopia The Church would love to hire me as a full time, but being smaller, they can’t afford it. I’m happy to work for them for free. I just had to learn that all projects for companies can’t be free lol
I'm not in business for myself, or in a business where this applies to me at all. However, I love listening to this guy speak. Everything out of his mouth is gold!
Another Master Class by Chris Do. I love how he was getting the class to “know their worth” and stop giving away quality for free. Like the old saying “Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.” The trade I was thinking if my “client” [Chris’ use, not mines] was a band or artist is a theme song or background music from them for use on my platform. Or some sort of investment in the “client” if they have potential to blow up.
Jan Jaap as a noob, I ain’t missing out on any opportunity to gain experience. For example i’m currently working with a team to design a COVID tracker app. Am I being paid? No, not a dime. But I’m gaining invaluable experience and an awesome case study for my portfolio. This is why OP’s comment doesn’t make sense to me.
@@Seanonyoutube I dont think you did it for the experience first, Im quite sure you did it for the greater good and only after is the invaluable experience. Hats off to you though bro!!
Very good advice: People who want everything for free or at the lowest costs are NO clients. They just wanna profit from you and you can NOT prfit from them. Everyone who takes the chances will ruin himself the life. Chris is absolutely right. You have to pay your salary, your equip usage, your work place (rent), electricity, software, gas (to drive to job + clients), telefon costs, internet costs PLUS your education (webdev, design, etc.). Dont sell yourself short. People who can NOT pay the price you set, will sooner or later struggle more and more and then they really cannot afford you. Better the clients realize what problem their businesses have and then they find quick a solution for a FAIR price (NOT a rip-off for the Designer/Webdev/etc.) and then they can relive the business again instead of driving it to the ground. Thx Chris for the many advices. :)
As an interior painter, I appreciate these videos so much. Totally different industries but your explanations bring so many similarities. Thank you for your work.
@@thefutur I've been working on how to bridge industries that we don't usually understand in order to provide a source of education for communities that encourage self-development. Watching these videos has been nothing less than inspiring.
If i get a phone call from a potential client.. If they sound under 30, I will say.. "What's your budget".. If a client sends me a work request and i know nothing about them. I respond with, "Can you send your budget expectations and what demographic are you aiming at"? This video is awesome as they always are :) Great insight wish i had this to watch 20 years ago.. YOUNG PEOPLE THIS MAN KNOWS! PERIOD FULL STOP..
Love the point of not always charging money, but actually look for other ways to get your value. I made a clothing commercial for a startup once and they gave me a lot of cloths in exchange. It was all high quality and I've received a lot of compliments on them.
I photographed 2 brand new honda cars for a honda dealership, a CR-V and a Civic Type-R , they had no money to pay me with. Done the shoots, looks cool in my portfolio. I wish they would have paid me with a Civic Type-R.
I've been offered a business share in return for my work...and the exposure word...never had anyone who said that actually create something that ended up with value...
I turned down the exposure offer I got. They wanted free design and they were organizing a monthly event that would have people buy tickets. I wasn't impressed
Good. Money was being made in some way, by somebody, yet they didn't want to pay you at all. Only way I would have done it is if I joined the monthly event and used it to network and gain experience in event planning, etc if that was a skill I wanted to pick up. do shit for free and then go home to watch tv with nothing, while someone else is out here making money? no sir
This is very insightful. Now I know how to differentiate between a client and charity. Also how to find creative ways to charge my clients. Thank you thefutur!
Profit share and equity are also valuable things they can offer :3 this is how I've managed to work with people who have fantastic projects that help a lot of people but they don't have upfront money for the work. I currently have 2 joint ventures where I'm getting half of the profits :3
Chris and other senior designers will tell you , it's our job to educate clients. But... When they see how on the ball we are they will adjust their game. When clients cannot answer demographic questions i put them on the spot. Politely.. The client say's "I don't know those numbers"... My answer is.. "I do and I can access a large number of them". If you play enough games of chess you improve? You are interviewing the client just as much as they are interviewing you. I read marketing reports on almost everything I can get my hands on. Mix that with a good knowledge of art and design history.. keep your goals well.. I am always pulling inspiration from history and adding a twist. This is also a great conversation to have with clients.. whats your favorite....? Use their passion and love of something to achieve a clear brief to a good profitable value. Set a deadline. Get it done! I love finishing something so i can say , "i did it".
The best value you can get out of the musicians and artists is that they create an advertisement or a creative piece for you which can be used to promote you. Just like you are giving them a design for their needs, they can barter with creative work that can be used as a promotion for you.
This is really important! I think another angle should be considered when talking about this. Chris mentioned it for a second "Valuable Clients'". Charging more and finding valuable clients is interconnected. The main focus should be on looking for these clients. If you're selling Red Hot Chilli Peppers t-shirts, you won't sell them at an AC/DC concert. Look for these people on the right place. By giving a higher price you appear more confident and more valuable, which will only help you find better clients. Higher price=Respect+Confidence.
I've been asked a lot of times to do work for free in order to get exposure. Last time I was told that, it was about an architectural contest and my "client" said that if we win the contest, my name would be on posters-newspaper in a specific town. I answered that I got on newspapers worldwide a couple of times and it didn't bring me back any client. Exposure just feels good, nothing more. Getting paid a couple of thousand euros feels way more attractive to me. Period.
@@thefutur Exactly! i wish i could go to the supermarket and fill up my cart and when i get to the till, say to the lady, oh, i've done exposure work for this client, so here's the exposure for my shoppings :)))
I used to do a lot of "charity" projects... Thanks to the futur I now only do them when it levels me up in some way. For example I did a website that might win me an award, as I had complete creative freedom over the project.
You can have them write you a song that fits your brand and you own the masters to , content is content and if your brand is defined music tells a story that you can put a specific message into
Chris, have you thought on making a video about failure? What should you do if the design you made is not working as intended, if the client is not satisfied in the end, if your work is not giving results. I think it could be easier for people to feel more confident if they know what to do in these cases. What do you think? Good video btw ^^
I think in a video he said not to promise any results and if they still want you, you can suggest taking a percentage of their profits. If you’re very good the buyer might feel like they will lose a lot of profit because you’ll be taking the risk of some upfront free work not them. If they take the risk to purchase you’re work and pay upfront that’s their gamble to earn a profit and how much they think you’ll earn them.
@@JMVExplained I hope I find those videos xD, theres so many. I know he said to always say results are not guaranteed. But imagine you tell a client that paying for a logo without a previous strategy will lead to money loss. Then they pay more, let's say 15.000$, and you fail. I wouldn't know what to say. I guess (and I think thats what you meant) I could tell them to keep working with me to try and fix it but that's another risk for them? Like a roulette?
@@dorminac Well, its important to learn more about business and be able to understand the economic metrics they want to achieve and what design strategies might achieve that. A logo, has a low probability of fixing a products sales. If it fails, it means you have overpromised what you can achieve. You have to be honest about what you think your services will create for them. IF you dont feel your services will make a significant economic impact perhaps you need to improve the value of your skills
Newer bands are the toughest to work for, they never seem to last. Try making a deal to own the copyright to one of their decent songs; this often works, and if it's any good you can sell the rights later on.
To the creative ways Chris mentioned about how we can barter things, one among them could be, what if the band(client) gives you 150 free tickets (each costing $15) and you sell them to more people and bag the money home. That would cover 50% of your charge and also would also help the band to get known to a greater audience. What say?
Good idea in theory, but then you are stuck selling 150 tickets which includes more of your time and effort on top of whatever project you have slated. If you are willing to help them in exchange for using some of your free time to sell tickets, I can see it as a win. But you are still at the mercy of the band.
I have been waiting for this. I wish I could have seen this sooner. Am already on a project that am being paid by exposure. But it's okay. Thanks Chris. Kudos thefutur team
I have worked with a number of bands, The deal i now offer is, 4 new clients from their referral in 12 month or they owe me full price. Instead of half price.. Plus usage of their music on our promo's showreels etc etc.. if the production is low quality or i don't like the music .... Chef voice "i won't touch that with a 40 ft barge pole"...
It might be cheeky, but you could ask for a percentage of their earnings until the point they've paid your fee. You would of course need to get it right in a legally binding contract. However, asking for 1-5% of a small business (or band etc) income or taking a risk with projected income would be fair.
Yup. In an accounting sense you are simply giving the band a loan. So charging a premium or interest is totally fair. For me I think a percentage up to 300% the basic price is reasonable. A great many of these people will never make it. so you'll lose a lot but every once in a while you'll get a client who really does cover for the others who didn't.
Why do I feel like a knife stabbed in my heart? . . . . . Oh yeah! I just done a free commercial video work for one of the top leading construction company in my place. Thank you, Chris!
Had an encounter recently where a client wanted me to design social posts and didn't have any idea on the money they are investing in this new business they wanted to start which was based on gift boxes. They wanted to do it for Valentine's day and it was in five days!! As Chris said to ask for payment creatively, makes me wonder what would their response be if I asked I wanted your boxes for free in return :D fyi they were pricing those boxes at 150 malaysian ringgit. No, I didn't engage in this discussion instead politely declined and stated that I'll be happy to discuss further once they confirm on their venture on this business so phew, saved myself from that awkward rabbit hole
If it's a band with potential I'd probably want to sign an agreement with them to document their lives before blowing up, tones of footage that would create a Documentary later on.
@@thefutur" the diffence between design & art " , I'm on it !!! I'm watching right now. I wanna say , Thank you guys for the knowledge, this videos help us out so much. bless you guys!!!!
Ohh Chris you really bring a smile to my depressed face. I loved the video. Also, Is there anything you can recommend (reading, watching anything) to balance my life as I am kind of disconnected soul at the moment. I don't seem to put all the energy I potentially can in my work. I see you as a genuine person working and helping. I want to gain the soft skills but don't know how to start! Thanks for the video. :)
What I learned before is if your clients are low on budget or not able to pay, instead of trading with exposure, just tell them "I would take X amaount or percent on your profits"
I'm a client. Trying to start a business on a shoestring budget. I've offered a designer xx cut of profits for the next xx number of years in return for logo, branding, marketing materials etc. I'm also giving her a guaranteed minimum for the first 2 years so she doesn't lose out completely if my business doesn't work out. Sounds fair? (btw she knows me as a person, knows I'm serious and dedicated and believes my business idea is a solid one)
I just rejected a few clients after watching this. Rule of thumb: Would working with this person, regardless of their budget, look good on your portfolio?
I wasn't thinking the rights to one of their songs, but if you ever need unique audio clips for background to a video - you better believe I'd be asking a musician who wants to barter about that.
I’m on the other side....my handicraft business don’t make much money, but I pay in advance as much as I can to graphic designers....and.....they don’t show up with decent work. The older more experienced one was worst, after much hounding he gave 4 rough sketches with no consideration to the 2 hr lunch (which I paid for) worth of my description of the mission & vision. Ended up just scroll through various logos and using the layout in Photoshop, layered with our name. Coz there’s no more money to find other graphic designers.
Yeah thanks 💙 been into lots of deals before where Ive been to complacent costing me of my time and effort and not knowing which to categorize and leverage things.
Great I like how you always offer for a percentage of the commissions or profits from the company, but how does Chris easily verify it, invoice & hold them accountable for reimbursement? Is it indefinite, or based on an agreed upon timeperiod in the future?
LOL. I've been in this situation , then people ask to design something for free " because you can". Now after 20 years of work , I can say that it takes time and money to learn design, not like fairy godmother gave me this skill .
Ppl pull the same act with landscapers. Like because I'm fast and have techniques and tools and stay motivated and in great shape, so I make it look easy, then I should just charge them $60 and leave. I don't think so. At that rate I won't be able to afford the gas to leave, lol
@@thefutur Mean and Nice is relative. What's mean to me could be nice to you. So it's an opinion, she seemed uncomfortable and at a loss for words and anxious. You could have talked to someone else in the audience .. But maybe what you did will help her in the long run. Why ? What do you want.
Inkh Su Tesou In my opinion, Chris was being a perfect coach. She was lost and without direction, and he revealed the reality of her situation and gave her useful and positive direction - with love. Sure, he razzed her a bit, but she was laughing and she knew he genuinely cares about her and wants here to succeed. With all respect possible, my suggestion is to look within and see if there are any insecurities that you that may have that made you feel uncomfortable.
how do you make sure you get paid through agreed percentage? i am guessing contract?! how much time and effort it takes to make and follow thru with the agreement? any advice?
I really wanted to hear "they can create custom audio tracks for me to use/sell". You know, like the stock songs get old after a while... insert custom twangy guitar riff here.
I mean, these business skills need to be taught in all design universities. I had all the design skills & tech background - but absolutely no game. So I struggled financially all my life. Don't be me! Watch these videos. Exchanging a percentage for design skills? NEVER crossed my mind, didn't even know it was option on the table. I want to know all of the options. Please do more of these videos. You are changing people's lives for the better!
If they teach you, you wont be doing a job. That's the whole point of institutions.
They don't because a huge amount of instructors are failed creatives.. I was super lucky and had some awesome tuition at University of Westminister! Ole Boysen the man is a legend.. but he only told the people that asked him about these things... He showed us a window it's our job to climb through and see the world for our selves..
Only you limit yourself. Don’t think of it as trading people or items, think of it as trading assets. Like on the stock market they always say, Intrinsic value is a result not a cause.
@sirena noone can be you, but yourself. BUT NEVER sell yourself short. You can rebuild everything, you only need the will and the motivation for it. :)
"they are not broke, they are **BROKEN**..." WOW!!! Chris has bars man!!!!! Cheeeeeeeese!!!!
Got that from my friend Vincent.
wow.....It's amazing how Chris seems to analyze every scenario in a split second. It shows just how deep of a thinker he is. Amazing video as always and EXTREMELY useful since I get this thrown at me all the time. Thanks!!!
Thank you
Experience and critical thinking .
As usual, Chris nailed it. Exposure gigs are maybe ok if you're still studying, or it's a cause you believe in. These days if anyone tries the "Do it for the exposure" line, I usually respond, "Do you know people die from exposure?"
My biggest issue is doing work for free. I've spent the last decade doing creative design and video work for my church as the creative director, so charging was really hard for me. Thanks to The Futur and learning my value, I'm able to say "no" to free work and clear up time for clients. The church is all the charity I can handle.
two of my biggest past clients (best paying too) Where a chruch and a local area head for the bishop diocese?
same!
Looks like Bo is thankful to Do 😀
Griptopia The Church would love to hire me as a full time, but being smaller, they can’t afford it. I’m happy to work for them for free. I just had to learn that all projects for companies can’t be free lol
Giorgi Darsadze Do is so knowledgeable and giving with his information. I’m very thankful 🙌🏼
I'm not in business for myself, or in a business where this applies to me at all. However, I love listening to this guy speak. Everything out of his mouth is gold!
Appreciate it
knowledge can be apply across the board in some ways. That's my belief anyway.
Another Master Class by Chris Do. I love how he was getting the class to “know their worth” and stop giving away quality for free. Like the old saying “Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.” The trade I was thinking if my “client” [Chris’ use, not mines] was a band or artist is a theme song or background music from them for use on my platform. Or some sort of investment in the “client” if they have potential to blow up.
Dont prostitute your work for cheap or free! Its ruining the design industry
Ditto for the whole creative industry
How else are Noobs supposed to gain experience?
@@Seanonyoutube Cheap is relative. What is cheap for a senior can be expensive for a noob.
Jan Jaap as a noob, I ain’t missing out on any opportunity to gain experience. For example i’m currently working with a team to design a COVID tracker app. Am I being paid? No, not a dime. But I’m gaining invaluable experience and an awesome case study for my portfolio. This is why OP’s comment doesn’t make sense to me.
@@Seanonyoutube I dont think you did it for the experience first, Im quite sure you did it for the greater good and only after is the invaluable experience. Hats off to you though bro!!
Very good advice: People who want everything for free or at the lowest costs are NO clients. They just wanna profit from you and you can NOT prfit from them. Everyone who takes the chances will ruin himself the life. Chris is absolutely right.
You have to pay your salary, your equip usage, your work place (rent), electricity, software, gas (to drive to job + clients), telefon costs, internet costs PLUS your education (webdev, design, etc.). Dont sell yourself short. People who can NOT pay the price you set, will sooner or later struggle more and more and then they really cannot afford you.
Better the clients realize what problem their businesses have and then they find quick a solution for a FAIR price (NOT a rip-off for the Designer/Webdev/etc.) and then they can relive the business again instead of driving it to the ground.
Thx Chris for the many advices. :)
As an interior painter, I appreciate these videos so much. Totally different industries but your explanations bring so many similarities. Thank you for your work.
Awesome, thank you!
@@thefutur I've been working on how to bridge industries that we don't usually understand in order to provide a source of education for communities that encourage self-development. Watching these videos has been nothing less than inspiring.
"they are not broke, they are just Broken" oh all right Billie Eilish, calm down... :D
Haha
If i get a phone call from a potential client.. If they sound under 30, I will say.. "What's your budget".. If a client sends me a work request and i know nothing about them. I respond with, "Can you send your budget expectations and what demographic are you aiming at"? This video is awesome as they always are :) Great insight wish i had this to watch 20 years ago.. YOUNG PEOPLE THIS MAN KNOWS! PERIOD FULL STOP..
Me : work for free?
Them: yes
me: oh sorry I didn't realise your company was doing that bad. Do you need some lunch money?
Oh damnn😂😂
Love the point of not always charging money, but actually look for other ways to get your value. I made a clothing commercial for a startup once and they gave me a lot of cloths in exchange. It was all high quality and I've received a lot of compliments on them.
I photographed 2 brand new honda cars for a honda dealership, a CR-V and a Civic Type-R , they had no money to pay me with. Done the shoots, looks cool in my portfolio. I wish they would have paid me with a Civic Type-R.
I've been offered a business share in return for my work...and the exposure word...never had anyone who said that actually create something that ended up with value...
oh man, this is actually what happened to me like a week ago. really valuable video. thank you
This one hits home hard! "You've got to get your value!". Thanks for sharing...and nice effects on the video by the way!
I turned down the exposure offer I got. They wanted free design and they were organizing a monthly event that would have people buy tickets. I wasn't impressed
Good. Money was being made in some way, by somebody, yet they didn't want to pay you at all. Only way I would have done it is if I joined the monthly event and used it to network and gain experience in event planning, etc if that was a skill I wanted to pick up.
do shit for free and then go home to watch tv with nothing, while someone else is out here making money? no sir
should have asked for a percentage of their monthly event sales!
I love the way Chris teaches. So intellectual. Great work 🙌🙌
This channel is amazing! I've never known how or what to charge a client let alone explain it in this way. Thank you!
This is very insightful. Now I know how to differentiate between a client and charity. Also how to find creative ways to charge my clients. Thank you thefutur!
Profit share and equity are also valuable things they can offer :3 this is how I've managed to work with people who have fantastic projects that help a lot of people but they don't have upfront money for the work.
I currently have 2 joint ventures where I'm getting half of the profits :3
This video gave me some old vibes anyone remembers Equity as compensation. Amazing Content
Chris and other senior designers will tell you , it's our job to educate clients. But... When they see how on the ball we are they will adjust their game. When clients cannot answer demographic questions i put them on the spot. Politely.. The client say's "I don't know those numbers"... My answer is.. "I do and I can access a large number of them". If you play enough games of chess you improve? You are interviewing the client just as much as they are interviewing you. I read marketing reports on almost everything I can get my hands on. Mix that with a good knowledge of art and design history.. keep your goals well.. I am always pulling inspiration from history and adding a twist. This is also a great conversation to have with clients.. whats your favorite....? Use their passion and love of something to achieve a clear brief to a good profitable value. Set a deadline. Get it done! I love finishing something so i can say , "i did it".
The best value you can get out of the musicians and artists is that they create an advertisement or a creative piece for you which can be used to promote you.
Just like you are giving them a design for their needs, they can barter with creative work that can be used as a promotion for you.
I love this video i once experience this charity exposure with a client way back most clients should take these lessons too.....
Chris, you fantastic! What an inspiration you are. We’re blessed to have you 🖤
Wow, thank you!
loving the edits on these conversation clips
Glad to hear
This is really important! I think another angle should be considered when talking about this. Chris mentioned it for a second "Valuable Clients'". Charging more and finding valuable clients is interconnected. The main focus should be on looking for these clients. If you're selling Red Hot Chilli Peppers t-shirts, you won't sell them at an AC/DC concert. Look for these people on the right place.
By giving a higher price you appear more confident and more valuable, which will only help you find better clients. Higher price=Respect+Confidence.
Thank you for encapsulating why I don't work for rappers or promoters anymore.
I've been asked a lot of times to do work for free in order to get exposure. Last time I was told that, it was about an architectural contest and my "client" said that if we win the contest, my name would be on posters-newspaper in a specific town. I answered that I got on newspapers worldwide a couple of times and it didn't bring me back any client. Exposure just feels good, nothing more. Getting paid a couple of thousand euros feels way more attractive to me. Period.
money can buy food. exposure can't.
@@thefutur Exactly! i wish i could go to the supermarket and fill up my cart and when i get to the till, say to the lady, oh, i've done exposure work for this client, so here's the exposure for my shoppings :)))
I simply love the way you explain things. From the root of intent. Once again. Amazing stuf
Thank you
I used to do a lot of "charity" projects... Thanks to the futur I now only do them when it levels me up in some way. For example I did a website that might win me an award, as I had complete creative freedom over the project.
Thank You Chris and The Futur. This is a invaluable Nugget!.
A great video and such a nice feeling about how to get creative! ))) Thank you for sharing ! )))
You can have them write you a song that fits your brand and you own the masters to , content is content and if your brand is defined music tells a story that you can put a specific message into
Great topic I needed to learn about. Thanks to Chris Do and everyone at The Futur. Props to Eric for a solid intro / outro.
our interns are paid.
@@thefutur Sorry... My initial comment was in poor taste. You guys are the best! Chris Do is the man. Please keep up the great videos! :D
It's amazing to me how so many people still expect free work. come on ppl
Chris, have you thought on making a video about failure? What should you do if the design you made is not working as intended, if the client is not satisfied in the end, if your work is not giving results. I think it could be easier for people to feel more confident if they know what to do in these cases. What do you think? Good video btw ^^
This is a brilliant idea.... but I am guessing Chris has done this video. There are soooo many here.
I think in a video he said not to promise any results and if they still want you, you can suggest taking a percentage of their profits. If you’re very good the buyer might feel like they will lose a lot of profit because you’ll be taking the risk of some upfront free work not them. If they take the risk to purchase you’re work and pay upfront that’s their gamble to earn a profit and how much they think you’ll earn them.
@@JMVExplained I hope I find those videos xD, theres so many. I know he said to always say results are not guaranteed. But imagine you tell a client that paying for a logo without a previous strategy will lead to money loss. Then they pay more, let's say 15.000$, and you fail. I wouldn't know what to say. I guess (and I think thats what you meant) I could tell them to keep working with me to try and fix it but that's another risk for them? Like a roulette?
@@dorminac Well, its important to learn more about business and be able to understand the economic metrics they want to achieve and what design strategies might achieve that. A logo, has a low probability of fixing a products sales. If it fails, it means you have overpromised what you can achieve. You have to be honest about what you think your services will create for them. IF you dont feel your services will make a significant economic impact perhaps you need to improve the value of your skills
He is a very clever man. Excellent presentation!
Good point Chris! This us super creative. I'm going to try this!
this is awesome, i just recently did a band logo for a friend and because this would be my first paid gig i don't know how to charge
How'd it go?
Newer bands are the toughest to work for, they never seem to last. Try making a deal to own the copyright to one of their decent songs; this often works, and if it's any good you can sell the rights later on.
thank you so much for this. Some people don't value design enough!
Thanks a ton for these invaluable gems the whole Futur team and Chris! Just wondering if there is a full video of this seminar on youtube?
To the creative ways Chris mentioned about how we can barter things, one among them could be, what if the band(client) gives you 150 free tickets (each costing $15) and you sell them to more people and bag the money home. That would cover 50% of your charge and also would also help the band to get known to a greater audience.
What say?
Good idea in theory, but then you are stuck selling 150 tickets which includes more of your time and effort on top of whatever project you have slated. If you are willing to help them in exchange for using some of your free time to sell tickets, I can see it as a win. But you are still at the mercy of the band.
@@schaefer_golf_shots Very true. Thanks for enlightening me with the other part of the story.
that’s extra work
Genuinely enjoyed watching this video. Invaluable ✨
Thank God for Chris Do!!!!
Amazing seeing Eric on the channel! Amazing video, very relevant to me personally. Thank you as always!
do you know Eric?
@@thefutur Met him at the live taping of the whiteboard session on instagram carousels
Thank you so much!! I need it this ✌️😎❤️
Wow! Damn! Just blew my mind! Thank you!!
hi. i found your channel to be a million dollar one. i could'nt hesitate, you are too good.
thumbs upppppppppp
Thanks
I have been waiting for this. I wish I could have seen this sooner. Am already on a project that am being paid by exposure. But it's okay. Thanks Chris. Kudos thefutur team
I have worked with a number of bands, The deal i now offer is, 4 new clients from their referral in 12 month or they owe me full price. Instead of half price.. Plus usage of their music on our promo's showreels etc etc.. if the production is low quality or i don't like the music .... Chef voice "i won't touch that with a 40 ft barge pole"...
It might be cheeky, but you could ask for a percentage of their earnings until the point they've paid your fee. You would of course need to get it right in a legally binding contract. However, asking for 1-5% of a small business (or band etc) income or taking a risk with projected income would be fair.
Yup. In an accounting sense you are simply giving the band a loan. So charging a premium or interest is totally fair. For me I think a percentage up to 300% the basic price is reasonable. A great many of these people will never make it. so you'll lose a lot but every once in a while you'll get a client who really does cover for the others who didn't.
Why do I feel like a knife stabbed in my heart?
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Oh yeah! I just done a free commercial video work for one of the top leading construction company in my place.
Thank you, Chris!
Well pointed out all these ideas.
Thank you for sharing them.
I'll keep them in mind.
Please do more of these videos.
Such an eye opening
"Boom". Nicely put. Thank you for the video.
You’re very welcome
I like this new guy.
This was sooooo helpful. Thank you.
Had an encounter recently where a client wanted me to design social posts and didn't have any idea on the money they are investing in this new business they wanted to start which was based on gift boxes. They wanted to do it for Valentine's day and it was in five days!! As Chris said to ask for payment creatively, makes me wonder what would their response be if I asked I wanted your boxes for free in return :D fyi they were pricing those boxes at 150 malaysian ringgit. No, I didn't engage in this discussion instead politely declined and stated that I'll be happy to discuss further once they confirm on their venture on this business so phew, saved myself from that awkward rabbit hole
If it's a band with potential I'd probably want to sign an agreement with them to document their lives before blowing up, tones of footage that would create a Documentary later on.
Thank for this
This was a very valuable video. Thank you!
Is the full video out yet, I need more of this!!!!
Yes. It is.
@@thefutur" the diffence between design & art " , I'm on it !!! I'm watching right now. I wanna say , Thank you guys for the knowledge, this videos help us out so much. bless you guys!!!!
Ohh Chris you really bring a smile to my depressed face. I loved the video. Also, Is there anything you can recommend (reading, watching anything) to balance my life as I am kind of disconnected soul at the moment. I don't seem to put all the energy I potentially can in my work. I see you as a genuine person working and helping. I want to gain the soft skills but don't know how to start! Thanks for the video. :)
You could check out the list of books he recommended in his early videos in 2017. I hope it helps! thefutur.com/blog/designer-book-recommendations
I’d ask for a % of ticket or merch sales over a specific time. Easy peezy
Very Insightful 😃 .
This was so much valuable.
What I learned before is if your clients are low on budget or not able to pay, instead of trading with exposure, just tell them "I would take X amaount or percent on your profits"
C’était genial !!
This is really great stuff!🥰
Lovin’ Chris new hipster fashion statement! Hello from Kuala Lumpur 🌞 🌴-26 FEB 2020
Very useful content - thanks!
Glad you think so!
I love how hard these guys are trying to get this band some forms if payment
I'm a client. Trying to start a business on a shoestring budget. I've offered a designer xx cut of profits for the next xx number of years in return for logo, branding, marketing materials etc. I'm also giving her a guaranteed minimum for the first 2 years so she doesn't lose out completely if my business doesn't work out. Sounds fair? (btw she knows me as a person, knows I'm serious and dedicated and believes my business idea is a solid one)
Very fair.
I just rejected a few clients after watching this.
Rule of thumb: Would working with this person, regardless of their budget, look good on your portfolio?
also good rule!
The band can give you the rights to their songs or one song or LP if there starting out the bands value is there songs
That would be crazy good if they gave you the right to their song.
I wasn't thinking the rights to one of their songs, but if you ever need unique audio clips for background to a video - you better believe I'd be asking a musician who wants to barter about that.
I’m on the other side....my handicraft business don’t make much money, but I pay in advance as much as I can to graphic designers....and.....they don’t show up with decent work. The older more experienced one was worst, after much hounding he gave 4 rough sketches with no consideration to the 2 hr lunch (which I paid for) worth of my description of the mission & vision.
Ended up just scroll through various logos and using the layout in Photoshop, layered with our name.
Coz there’s no more money to find other graphic designers.
Thank you so much for this content! Definitely changing my mindset🤘🏾💙🔥
Yeah thanks 💙 been into lots of deals before where Ive been to complacent costing me of my time and effort and not knowing which to categorize and leverage things.
This is so good.
Great I like how you always offer for a percentage of the commissions or profits from the company, but how does Chris easily verify it, invoice & hold them accountable for reimbursement? Is it indefinite, or based on an agreed upon timeperiod in the future?
I love this so hard. Thanks Chris!
You're very welcome
What can a band give to you? Old school trading currency. Good stuff
Thank you
I felt like Chris should not only teach designers this but also deliver talks in companies to promote this mindset.
if they pay me to come and do a workshop, I'll be happy to.
The Futur If there’s a chance please come to Hong Kong to do this. People need to hear about this!
Here 📸, take some exposure ...
Bartering works. Got insurance, custom furniture etc
LOL. I've been in this situation , then people ask to design something for free " because you can". Now after 20 years of work , I can say that it takes time and money to learn design, not like fairy godmother gave me this skill .
Fire 🔥
Ppl pull the same act with landscapers. Like because I'm fast and have techniques and tools and stay motivated and in great shape, so I make it look easy, then I should just charge them $60 and leave. I don't think so. At that rate I won't be able to afford the gas to leave, lol
Chris is so mean to this poor girl .. .. .. I agree with all of what he says, but man .. Brutal.
That is being mean?
@@thefutur Mean and Nice is relative. What's mean to me could be nice to you.
So it's an opinion, she seemed uncomfortable and at a loss for words and anxious.
You could have talked to someone else in the audience .. But maybe what you did will help her in the long run.
Why ? What do you want.
Inkh Su Tesou In my opinion, Chris was being a perfect coach. She was lost and without direction, and he revealed the reality of her situation and gave her useful and positive direction - with love. Sure, he razzed her a bit, but she was laughing and she knew he genuinely cares about her and wants here to succeed. With all respect possible, my suggestion is to look within and see if there are any insecurities that you that may have that made you feel uncomfortable.
Excellent
this is SUUUUCHHHHH valuable content, appreciate it a lot!
Thank you Alex.
Really useful video
how do you make sure you get paid through agreed percentage? i am guessing contract?! how much time and effort it takes to make and follow thru with the agreement? any advice?
Awesome!
Love it 💯🔥
I really wanted to hear "they can create custom audio tracks for me to use/sell". You know, like the stock songs get old after a while... insert custom twangy guitar riff here.