@Doulos7608 You say I don't bother to explain. You are correct. I don't really see the need to explain. I could turn the question around and say that you and Chris have failed to "explain" why it is logical. That's my main point. Just saying that it's logical does not make it so. That's why I simply left it to the viewer of the video to decide. I said, "you decide, read the passage and see if indeed it was the will of God".
@patriotsfan1379 That's an interesting answer. That's not the "standard" reformed, or Calvinistic response of course. At any rate, I make all of my points quite clear in the debate I had with Chris. If you want any clarification feel free to ask.
@Doulos7608 What your saying PERFECTLY fits for my point. It isn't enough to say that something is logical and then say that I have to demonstrate how it is not; You simply have not shown how it is logical. All the same, I did take the time to show how "allowing" something to happen does not make it ones will in my example of me "allowing" my children to do something that is not my will.
@faithandpractice exactly what I said before the bible does not have to prove GODS sovereignty in every single case because it already says HE is in control of everything including sinfull acts
@faithandpractice GOD does not have to cause something thats allready part of the individuals sin all HE has to do is remove HIS restraint and we will go in the way that HE desires us to go we live in HIS universe and we must play by HIS rules so if we fall we will fall as deep and in the way that HE want us to fall each persons weakness is different
when adam sined GOD asked where are you did HE not know?HE ALSO aked what have you done again if GOD is omnicient why did HE ask ? HE asked so that david may be confronted with his sin and realize he was caught
@Doulos7608 You didn't "show" any point, instead you only asserted that it was not the case by claiming it didn't make sense. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense. In the same way if you were to allow your child to do something that you had forbidden them to do, how is it not your will, since you have the ability to stop this thing, but do not? Passively, it is your will because you have let it come to pass, though you could have done something.
@Doulos7608 I've made a mess of trying to reply to your last post. I accidentally removed your last comment (sorry). If you would be so kind as to post your last comment again I will respond.
one cannot have power or control all things if one did not create them a man may domesticate animals and rule over the beasts but the animal can n will do certain unexpected things that could if not kill the man it is not so with GOD because GOD created all things and upholds allthings HE is able not only to control but use all things rom;11;36 from HIM and through HIM and for HIM are all things
@patriotsfan1379 "just because david did something does not mean God was not in control the bible does not have to prove GODS sovereignty in every single case are you kidding me?" I think I know the answer to this question but just to be clear; when you say that God was "in control" do you mean that God "caused" David do what he did? By the way I affirm that God is sovereign in every single case but it is wrong to equate God's sovereignty with God "causing" all things.
@Doulos7608 Not at all. I truly do not see the "logic" in what you are saying. Example: there have been times that I have "had the power" to stop my children from doing something but "allowed" them to do it anyway. Did that make it my will? No, it didn't. My position is this; "causation" is different than "allowing". This "uncomfortable question" is not uncomfortable at all because it simply does not make sense. Respectfully, John.
@Doulos7608 You say I don't bother to explain. You are correct. I don't really see the need to explain. I could turn the question around and say that you and Chris have failed to "explain" why it is logical. That's my main point. Just saying that it's logical does not make it so. That's why I simply left it to the viewer of the video to decide. I said, "you decide, read the passage and see if indeed it was the will of God".
@patriotsfan1379 My main point was that this was an event that David did not God. No where does it indicate that what David did was God's will.
@patriotsfan1379 That's an interesting answer. That's not the "standard" reformed, or Calvinistic response of course. At any rate, I make all of my points quite clear in the debate I had with Chris. If you want any clarification feel free to ask.
@Doulos7608 What your saying PERFECTLY fits for my point. It isn't enough to say that something is logical and then say that I have to demonstrate how it is not; You simply have not shown how it is logical. All the same, I did take the time to show how "allowing" something to happen does not make it ones will in my example of me "allowing" my children to do something that is not my will.
@faithandpractice exactly what I said before the bible does not have to prove GODS sovereignty in every single case because it already says HE is in control of everything including sinfull acts
@faithandpractice GOD does not have to cause something thats allready part of the individuals sin all HE has to do is remove HIS restraint and we will go in the way that HE desires us to go we live in HIS universe and we must play by HIS rules so if we fall we will fall as deep and in the way that HE want us to fall each persons weakness is different
when adam sined GOD asked where are you did HE not know?HE ALSO aked what have you done again if GOD is omnicient why did HE ask ? HE asked so that david may be confronted with his sin and realize he was caught
@Doulos7608 You didn't "show" any point, instead you only asserted that it was not the case by claiming it didn't make sense. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense. In the same way if you were to allow your child to do something that you had forbidden them to do, how is it not your will, since you have the ability to stop this thing, but do not? Passively, it is your will because you have let it come to pass, though you could have done something.
@Doulos7608 I've made a mess of trying to reply to your last post. I accidentally removed your last comment (sorry). If you would be so kind as to post your last comment again I will respond.
one cannot have power or control all things if one did not create them a man may domesticate animals and rule over the beasts but the animal can n will do certain unexpected things that could if not kill the man it is not so with GOD because GOD created all things and upholds allthings HE is able not only to control but use all things rom;11;36 from HIM and through HIM and for HIM are all things
@patriotsfan1379 "just because david did something does not mean God was not in control the bible does not have to prove GODS sovereignty in every single case are you kidding me?" I think I know the answer to this question but just to be clear; when you say that God was "in control" do you mean that God "caused" David do what he did? By the way I affirm that God is sovereign in every single case but it is wrong to equate God's sovereignty with God "causing" all things.
@Doulos7608 Not at all. I truly do not see the "logic" in what you are saying. Example: there have been times that I have "had the power" to stop my children from doing something but "allowed" them to do it anyway. Did that make it my will? No, it didn't. My position is this; "causation" is different than "allowing". This "uncomfortable question" is not uncomfortable at all because it simply does not make sense. Respectfully, John.