I knew that I had more than OSDD going on, and my therapist called it DID because my symptoms were more than OSDD, but I always felt like a fake because I never quite fit overt DID definitions. Having a real word for what I experience helps my denial a ton. It's harder to feel like I'm faking when I know there's recorded explanations for *my* specific symptoms, even if they don't exactly fit what's listed in the DSM.
THIS IS FASCINATING! This has helped me come to the conclusion that I was misdiagnosed with osdd. During the interview with the professional I had a lot of trouble answering the questions and I had a lot of dissociation so I know looking back I did not answer some of the questions correctly because I was too afraid of being completely honest, I think. Or I really just did not know the answer. That being said, I was recently in the ER for insomnia which was triggered by taking the wrong medication (my Dr made a mistake. All is well tho she fixed it). I informed the staff in the ER that I needed to be with female staff only because I had been sexually assaulted in previous hospitalization experiences by male staff. They were having a shift change and the doctor in the ER was going to be male, so they tried introducing him to me without preparing me for it first and it triggered a trauma response where I was screaming and trying to get away from him but also telling him I knew he wasn't the problem, I was just scared. I used my service dog to "put Pandora back in her box" as I like to call it, and afterward I was perfectly fine and willing to communicate again. Long story short, They did have to put me on a psych hold because I wound up staying awake for 52 hours straight (mainly because they encouraged the spinning out of control instead of calming it🙄). I kept referring to myself in the third person and soothing myself like a small child. This was the first time I had undeniable evidence to myself and others around me that the DID i suffer from is indeed real. (I deny it all the time) Ativan got me to sleep and they sent me home and I recovered with the help of a low dose of Ativan over the course of the next month. I am back to functioning normally. I work full-time, I have horses, I have a lot of friends, and I appear and I function as though I were one whole person. But internally I do not feel like the same person everyday. I don't even eat the same foods. I struggle to form habits because of this. I do not have strong amnesiac barriers because of lots of trauma informed therapy, but I definitely have strong amnesia surrounding my childhood trauma. If my CPTSD is triggered, then my amnesia barriers seem to come down and I relive the nightmares of my childhood over and over again. But this only happens if I am under extreme duress, do not get adequate sleep, etc. once the duress subsides, so does the pain of chronic flashbacks. I was thinking that maybe I have partial DID, but perhaps I have full-blown DID with a well integrated system. There's a lot to discuss with my therapist!
I just wanted to comment and say that this is very similar to what I’ve been going through! I’ve been questioning whether I’ve been faking it since I started looking into plurality as a whole, especially as I don’t have the means to build a support system on the outside. I question myself because I feel as if I don’t fit the criteria, and can’t communicate with anyone, though I’ve had similar experiences in hospitals and do tend to like pat myself and talk out loud to soothe myself when I get upset lol, I relate to that bit. I am at a point where I genuinely don’t know who I am anymore at any given time. I couldn’t tell you if you asked lol, though I always feel conscious and generally in control. Of course there’s a ton more, but I’m a tad tired and don’t want to dump it all on a stranger on the internet. Just wanted to say you’re not alone, and I relate very much! Seeing your experience has been very validating for me ^^
The work you do is undeniably important. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research, with those of us who cannot afford mental healthcare. (I live in the USA 🙄) I wish I was where you are, so I could receive actual help. You are making more and more people feel valid and heard with your work. I can understand more and more what is happening within my brain. I’ve known about my “system” since I was a pre-teen. I knew something wasn’t quite “right.” I have an inner world, with people in it and visit it often. Sometimes I watch from a “cave” behind my eyes as the world continues to go on around me. Like I’m inside of a giant robot, watching from a giant window surrounded by that cave. Every time I have explained this inner world and cave, when I got older, I was met with “You have BPD.” I only have one maybe two symptoms of BPD. Both of which and the rest of my symptoms ALL correlate with possibly having DID. The more I learn about this disorder, the more order I have with in my mind and body. I may never fully be one person. My 8 year old son may always ask me “why are you a baby today? Why did I hear a man in the kitchen? (I’m a woman) Why do you have an accent?” But I am no longer frightened of being me, thanks to you and Jess from “Multiplicity & Me.” Thanking you does not seem like enough, but it is all I have to give to you. So again, for a second time in this post, Thank You Dr Lloyd. 💖🕯
I feel like there is also a ranking of 'how severe your disorder/suffering is' and 'how bad your trauma has been' between DID and OSDD. Where things are considered worse for DID and lighter for OSDD (and partial DID). But, being diagnosed with DID and in close relation with someone with OSDD, I think this is not so straightforward. Having clearly distinct parts that can speak and act for themselves can be easier to understand and communicate with. There are names to refer to, parts can talk to a therapist and explain their view, etc. Not that there is anything easy about living with DID. But I think OSDD can be (even) harder to accept/make sense of/go to therapy with than DID. And the type and amount of trauma can be the same for any of the dissociative disorders. Or people could judge the trauma in the early life of someone with for example DPDR as much 'worse' than my trauma. I guess I just wanted to say that these things are complex and subtle, and unfortunately there can be a struggle to feel (and be) validated in any of these diagnoses and the impact.
Yeah. Plus, that idea doesn't explain how people with absolutely horrific trauma are still able to remember it, and other people who underwent lesser amounts of trauma (not that the traumas themselves aren't impactful, but it may have happened once or twice or it may not have involved physical acts, which is typically seen as "lighter trauma") can have repressed memories. I think it has to do with the level of support a child has, their age, and the child's predisposed inclinations towards dissociation rather than other methods of coping.
One thing that’s never been clear to me with respect to the distinction between DID and OSDD is whether when you have OSDD another part can totally take control and you disappear and lose all memory of what happened (i.e., complete amnesia). I have never received a diagnosis but three and a half years ago I happened to look up on the Internet someone I knew very briefly over 35 years previously and was surprised at how upset I was at learning that someone I knew so casually died a few years after I knew him. This bothered me for six months until finally after looking up some pictures of him on the Internet memories started to return to me. I recalled that the second time I was with him as we left a nightspot together and he turned to say something to me, he dissolved into mist and I have absolutely no recollection of what happened that night after that. As a matter of fact, I remembered nothing about him for 15 or 20 years. I also recalled that several years earlier somebody had come up to me in a nightclub very excited to see me and ultimately stalked away in anger because I had no recollection of him, which I thought at the time was a bizarre case of mistaken identity. So although I never received a diagnosis of DID or OSDD, and perhaps never had either of them, some part of me was obviously taking over in nightlife settings and I don’t know how often it happened. I also believe now that something traumatic happened to that part the second evening “I” was with that fellow, as a result of which the part ultimately disappeared. A few years later, I attended a support group for adults abused as children and remembered that I had suffered extremely horrific abuse as a small child, perhaps because that part was no longer functioning to keep the knowledge from me. But that’s beyond the scope of my question. I think it would be helpful for the sources to clarify with respect to OSDD whether complete amnesia can occur which they generally don’t do. Of course, ultimately it doesn’t matter for me what I had or didn’t have because it was a long time ago, and perhaps it doesn’t matter for anyone as long as they have a good clinician who can help them, but we all seem to have a need to put a name to what’s happening or happened to us. The last three and a year years have been quite a journey for me. The CTAD Clinic videos have been a great source of information about dissociation for me and I am very grateful that you have made them available to the public. Tom Chicago, Illinois USA
OSDD is not one thing. It is a collection of presentations which either fall short of DID (DSM), or both fall short of DID, and cannot be classified as P-DID. So, under the DSM, OSDD would be “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more…personality states, but lacking of part of the “marked [and/or “distinct”] discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency” criteria, lack of all of the “related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning” or lack of “recurrent gaps in the recall of [events] inconsistent with everyday forgetting. Under the ICD, “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more…personality states, but lacking of part of the “ related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning” criteria, or the “ and possibly also the “personality states recurrently take executive control of the individuals’s consciousness and functioning” criteria.” Whereas P-DID under the ICD-11 would be “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states,” and “marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency” and “related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning”but lacking only the “personality states recurrently take executive control of the individuals’s consciousness and functioning” criteria of DID.
I can understand this, because if a mental health care professional does not have a full history or background on the patient yet, they need to put them somewhere to bill and treat. Good video.😊 also since I have touched the subject on self harm issues I would love to see you talk about this issue as well and why this behavoir takes place and how a professional works on that issue in this disorder, if you have time.
Hmmm... I was diagnosed with OSDD (DDNOS back then) in 1995 because, as well as having alters, I also showed symptoms of Dissociative Fugue and Derealisation, which, back then, fell into their own, separate categories of the five classified under Dissociative Disorders. I always assumed I got what's now known as the OSDD diagnosis because I technically didn't fit into just one of the first four categories, so they threw me into the fifth, 'catch-all' of DDNOS ('Dissociative Disorders Not Otherwise Specified,' I believe it stood for?) However, having listened to your definitions in this video, Partial DID sounds a lot closer to how I experience my system and alters. So now I'm kind of confused! The Dissociative Fugue and Derealisation are still things I occasionally experience in times of extreme stress along with my alters influencing my behaviour - but I'm not sure, with the new classifiations, if that still keeps me in the 'catch-all category' of OSDD or not?
Thank you as always for these incredibly helpful videos!! It's so refreshing for an expert to be talking about nuance and flexibility within the spectrum of dissociative disorders, rather than exact categorization of symptoms.
Well it’s time to speak about sth “more” than my cPTSD to my psychologist. I started using “parts” terminology bc it literally describes what it feels inside. I’m usually aware about everything around me but I rather frequently (depends on how many triggers are in a day) move towards inside and specific part act through me. The passenger in a car is perf analogy. I know what’s happening, I have my own opinions or feelings about it but can’t help acting like a specific part wants. For example self-harming in very high stress situations: my adult self knows it’s not a good idea but can’t do anything but doing what one of my teen part wants and they want to escape through pain like they were doing years ago. I have many inner conflicts on a daily basis, I feel that some parts although having different coping strategies act and support each other and some parts hate others (especially teen ragefull part hates child part fawning to attach bc teen blames the child for being not good enough and making teen “do the dirty work”). My inner world (not like a specific place but like everything that’s happening inside) has always been complex, and I think that my parts are too differentiated to be “just” cPTSD parts but I really don’t know if I’m not exaggerating. It’s all weird and messy. Always in conflict. Always pretending something.
C-PTSD here: When I started doing trauma work w/ my therapist, she brought in the IFS model & parts work alongside EMDR... I was initially super resistant because I thought it was stupid. "I'm ME & I'm not going to sit here & play pretend, as though I'm not the one making MY decisions & living w/ MY trauma". And then, well... It was largely because of acknowledging various parts that I made any amount of progress w/ EMDR. I was far too dissociated to make headway, but other parts? They managed it. They could connect when I was unable. And then when I was shaken by that, they were the only ones who could help comfort me... There was also a moment in an EMDR session when a feeling washed over me that felt like... If all of my rage & contempt were a person & I let them take over because it was intoxicating & wonderful to express my hatred. I don't know what to make of any of that, really... I don't know if it's something more than C-PTSD or if the compartmentalization of the self in C-PTSD is just something that isn't talked about enough to where I knew to expect it. I haven't done EMDR in a while because I stopped being able to progress due to dissociation & to present day stuff being more distressing, but... I'll figure it out someday.
Thank you Dr. Mike, I’ve never seen anyone explain all three of these so clearly. It finally makes sense! Thank you! I still don’t know where we fit for sure, because stuff is so so confusing, but I think OSDD would fit at first.
Thanks Dr Lloyd for attempting to clear up the criteria for the different diagnoses. Here on the ground I feel like things are a lot more blurry since whenever we individuals were “built” we weren’t following published rules, therefore we can be messier than the criteria acknowledge. Other than for treatment, which is largely the same across the differences, I can see that diagnosis might be used for purposes such as disability or treatment intensity. Perhaps a useful view might be also defining us by degree of impairment, rather than simply the display/intrusiveness of parts: those who cannot function fully in life, those who function okay with breaks in that ability, those who limp along with disruptions in relationship or capability barely visible to outsiders (all subject to change). I’m not sure that diagnosis accurately captures the above.
Hi, the actual diagnostic categories do take functional impairment and distress into account, they are necessary features. This was purely looking at the differences between specific classifications.
I was recently diagnosed with CPTSD and during the assessment a lot of questions about dissociation and parts came up. And I started to wonder if maybe these internal conflicts I have and these "extra" thoughts are actual -parts-. I didn't get an OSDD or any such additional diagnosis because the therapist said that since this is a new thing for me to consider, more time and therapy needs to be spent to figure out if the term "dissociative symptoms" in my medical journal is enough to describe my experiences or if there needs to be a secondary diagnosis. It's all confusing and troubling, this video did help me understand the differences between the different states/diagnoses. I found myself nodding along in understanding and recognition of a few things, too. Thank you for the video.
It's still not clear to me. I don't think I have alters. But I can change radically in my attitudes/values overall mood from time to time. E.g. currently I have high libido, am actively flirting on hookup sites, am quite beligerant on certain forums where people are coming across as pompous twits. At other times, I become Ghost -- as visible as glass, move like fog. My voice goes very quiet, enough that people have keep saying what. I have no boundaries. I don't matter to anyone. Not even me. I am hypervigialnt, ready to make a silent exit, or run like hell. There is a version of me that is indifferent. IDGAF. Alienated from people. Alienated from self? That person has zero self worth. Nothing matters. Life is just waiting to die and get it over with. And there is a version of me that is between, watching the world, content to just be. There are other combinations, but remembering emotional states has always been difficult for me. I don't really remember emotions. I remember narrative descriptions of emotions. Thing is, whichever Me is dominant regards the others as somehow wierd and deluded. But there is no apparent memory gaps. It would take close observation for an external observer to see these changes. My T is pretty good.
This is actually really nice to hear as an undiagnosed system. I do want to get diagnosed, but I currently have some form of DID/OSDD, but the only one that fit the bill was OSDD. Hearing about the notion of a “partial” DID is quite nice since that describes how it works for me more than the other two. Of course I still need an official diagnosis, but this helps a lot
For me it feels like I have a “ self” that manages the parts but the parts run the body. Sometimes with co-consciousness but other times it feels like the “ self” is just an observing from the back and can collect clues that a part is forward and what part is forward but isn’t able to influence decision making. The “self” is put in the back when I am triggered or if a new part comes forward. I thought I had achieved full integration of parts but just learned of another part I had some awareness of but no access too. That part was triggered forward a few weeks ago and since then I have been losing so much time and feel like I’m in the back more often than the front. It’s been difficult feeling like I have had such a large regression in such a short amount of time.
I haven’t been formally diagnosed but have a great therapist who is understanding and as validating as she can be but sometimes it feels like even she doesn’t understand my experiences as they feel so difficult to articulate to others.
I dont usually completely forget things, i.e. i maintain some level of consciousness at most times, but there are things i completely black out for. Apparently i worked 3 weeks at a pizza place i hated so much i walked out in the middle of a shift and forgot to put it on my taxes (dw, we didnt make any money while we were there). I vaguely remember some of it, but mostly i lost access to that memory for a while. I also will temporarily forget whole days or events. So i never know where I'd fall, and the "professionals" in my area are low quality and not experienced in these problems, if they recognize them at all.
It’s striking to me that amnesia was not centered. I think that is a shift either internationally (either with a more ICD focus rather than a complete DSM focus, or if that is simply a difference of emphasis.
Im even more confused now on where i fit. I had thought OSDD based on what i've read over the last few years, but as discussed here it sounds more like DID. The biggest thing that doesn't fit is that we really don't have memory loss between alters fronting, and we have a lot of co-fronting. So like, we have a bad memory as a collective and things are fuzzy, but for the most part we ALL have the same fuzzy and the same memories. Switching doesn't make other memories clear and different ones fuzzy. They are all always fuzzy no matter who is up.
I'm still slightly confused. I am formally diagnosed with CPTSD, and I self-diagnosed with OSDD/P-DID about a year ago, because I have distinct personality states, but no black-out amnesia and I'm usually the host (or at least have significant influence from the host), and the lines between parts can be a bit blurry (some are more distinct, but the clear distinctions only really come forth when heavily triggered). I was never quite sure whether my self-assessment was correct, or if DID was a more accurate diagnosis. It's kind of hard for me to know my own symptoms because of amnesia and regularly going into denial. Based on your video, I'm pretty sure I have P-DID,. But it's not clear whether that would be DID or OSDD in the DSM-V. Not that it matters, I guess, since where I live (Norway) the ICD-10 is what's currently in use (despite being outdated). I probably won't get a formal diagnosis, since it makes no difference for treatment and I'm getting my treatment privately (and in the UK, since crossing borders was the only way to get the expertise I needed).
Can partial did and OSDD come together? Partial did makes a lot sense, but all the internal confusions and dialogues and the DP /DR reactions come and go. My life today is rich and good but I still seek the understanding of us.
Other than being reassessed by different professionals and have your diagnosis formally changed- is it possible that your diagnosis changes over time? Like someone starts with DID but with treatment it begins to look more like partial DID and then OSDD? Or is it once you are in a category that’s it and it’s that you still have DID but you’ve learned skills that make it more “functional” for daily life ?
I thought that in C-PTSD, parts can be triggered to take over (if i understand the theory of Structural Dissociation). How does this happening in C-PTSD differ from it happening in OSDD or partial DID?
I dont know what to do anymore. Like you mentioned in another video, I survive day to day, my life goes on, but I'm not really living, im not thriving, and i feel like im living with a giant cloud of despair behind me all the time. How can i ever grow and learn as a person if they keep taking control and ruining my life and the things that happen dont happen to me and i dont feel the effect those things have on my life
I have DID and am fairly integrated now. I am interested in learning about hypervigilance in my marriage. I want to stop scanning him for whether or not he is satisfied or about to judge me (which he does NOT do!)
What does it mean when a part takes "executive control" vs internally influencing? Specifically with regards to possession and non possession forms of DID compared to the other labels. Was curious on an elaboration on that front. Much appreciated video though, cheers!
Hi Dr. Lloyd, I feel a little confused about the range of possibilities here. If someone has 1 or 2 EPs, who only present occasionally in contexts where it is functional for them to do so and who present through the ANP/host (host is aware 'someone else' is in charge but is the one doing the talking etc)-is this OSDD please? Or partial DID?
In the moment, I long for peace and healing. After a lot of good therapy some of the criterias fade out. I suppose some other difficulties often come with us as well? Like depression, suicidal thoughts, ocd, body dysmorphia or eating disorders..?
How have you found a diagnosis to change over time? It's fair to have an initial diagnosis of one of these types of dissociation, but does the type shift as treatment continues? Does the client go from symptoms of DID to no DID, or can they shift to more generic OSDD, and then to no symptoms?
It was my understanding that the difference between DID vs OSDD-1B was that DID has memory segmentation (each headmate having only access to memories they personally experienced, or were directly told about by others, and mostly blackout in-between) whereas OSDD-1B does not (each headmate is still a distinct person, but all have shared memory, though possibly with depersonalisation/derealisation as to memories belonging to a different headmate). You didn't mention this framing at all, and instead described OSDD as being about headmates that are less distinct from each other or that aren't full persons (e.g. that only rarely present and only for very narrow purposes); I thought that was only OSDD-1A. Have I misunderstood something?
OSDD-1A and B aren't things - it's just OSDD-1. The 1A and B comes from the previous DDNOS diagnosis that I guess a load of people have gotten mixed up on the change
In partial DID can the host be replaced by what until that point has only been a passively influencing part of limited agency? Can there be a case that due to change in the system or an external trigger, the part without agency takes over the executive system and the body and takes the place of the host?
I have a question. I watch all of your videos, by the way! I really like how you explained in a video with the glasses and a pan of water, how DID is explained. that being said, if were all pieces of the same pie, so to speak, if one part has a lot of reasoning, or higher IQ level, does that take away from the rest? or is that a shared type of thing? I came to realize I was 3 hours from home with nl shoes on and no car once, then I was back at home. so I'm glad what ever did that, fixed it, but I was just wondering if say a personality trait, or reasoning, or mood, as you are finite, it stands to reason what makes you, you, is finite, getting myself confused lol. sorry for the drawn out question here. but was wondering if that the case. Love your videos, they have been the most helpful at attempting to manage!
Thank you for the feedback! I would say parts are only limited by the nature of the whole, we are still discovering possibilities, so keep an open mind!
@@thectadclinic will do! thank you for your approach to,, and explaining DID has helped me greatly and not to be ashamed of it! thank you. and i look forward to more videos!
Are there any links were i can study Partial DID? Im starting to make an online book about it and cant seem to find a lot of information on it. Even though im not a professional, ive been researching for a while and i seem to give out good information on it, and i want to study this in life. Also im wondering if i actually have this disorder, all sources that have the symptoms seem to fit me, though i cant get a diagnosis yet since i cant afford it, nor cant eve get diagnosed with it since i live in america.
What makes it confusing is that some places only use the DSM or ICD, so even if you fit one, you may get diagnosed with the other. I fit P-DID more than OSDD-1, in my opinion, but if I were to get diagnosed, it would be with OSDD-1 since I'm in the US.
would you know any experts in your field that one could reach out to when living in other countries than the UK? The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, or other European countries that would have institutions comparable to the CTAD Clinic?
Curious.. Two or more states that take executive control. What precisely does that mean? My son has one ‘part’ that takes over to prevent his primary personality from being able to communicate any further. He becomes frozen, unable to talk or move for anywhere up to an hour at a time. Then when he comes to, he bawls his eyes out, and says he was stuck inside and this ‘part’ had taken over to stop him continuing the conversation we were having. But he can never remember what we were talking about, and believes this part somehow veils parts of his memory. This part never talks to me, but seems to always be listening. Has even started to bring my son back if I promise not to continue the conversation we were having. Assessments are happening over the next few weeks. But his psychologist suspects OSDD and his psychiatrist suspects DID. Would appreciate the thoughts of anyone with any experience.
This is a strange way to talk about it though, aren't OSDD-1a and -1b Diagnoses within the DSM-5? The ICD is a completely different diagnostical System (the International one) and it uses a slightly different way to categorize and name certain Symptoms and Disorders. So: There is no OSDD in the ICD-11...👀 pDID (partial DID) in the ICD-11 is OSDD (DSM-5) basically. [pDID used to be called DDNOS in the ICD-10]. To distinguish between the two, as if it was in the same Diagnostical-System is not accurate and confusing!👀🤔 What is your reason to do so anyway? (Maybe it is handled differtenly in the UK? I am from Germany, we only use the ICD. So there is no OSDD-Diagnosis at all. But it would still be confusing to explain it, as if there where even more Diagnoses🤷🏼♀️)
Your comment (thank you!) shows the inherent difficulty with OSDD - the 1a and 1b are all about amnesia, without really taking into account the way alters work. Partial DID is in the ICD-11, not in the DSM-V (which is used here) but so is OSDD, but for different reasons - it is more like unspecified DD in the DSM-V. I don't think the two collaborated and left us with lots of interesting conundrums!
Im trying to get diagnosed for either DID or OSDD. None of the psychiatrists where I live seem to tackle dissociative disorders, though. I dont know if I want to spend $300 to see them, only to be told they don’t go that deep. Im mot rlly sure what to do at this stage,,
I always thought that one criteria for DID is amnesia on a day to day basis and that if you don`t have this kind of amnesia you have partial DID or OSDD not DID. Did I get that wrong?
You don't have to have daily amnesia to qualify for a DID diagnosis, as far as I know. And you can also get an OSDD-1 diagnosis if you have amnesia, but your parts are not distinct enough for a DID diagnosis, or that's at least what I've read online (in the DID/OSDD community spaces they often call it OSDD-1a) I've also heard DID amnesia can look very different from system to system. Some have complete amnesia between switches, others don't have any amnesia between switches, and many have a mix of these two
@@butterflyb.9135 Thanks for your answer. Does that mean your are all the time there, but sometimes you just observe the others? But how does the amnesia occur then? I am jut curious☺
Well in our case, we often have multiple parts active at least in the background, sometimes more overtly however depending on circumstances, and this often shifts quite fluidly. Our host is usually in the driver's seat, but sometimes we might be triggered to flip between someone who is already aware and interacting with our host. Feels like suddenly changing who's in the driver's seat and who's in the passenger seat. There's little to no amnesia in these cases. Other times something happens and everyone who was active is either suddenly in head space or blacks out completely. And we have no idea what is or has happened in the interim. Usually accompanied by a panic attack and terrible headache when we shift back to what is more normal for us where one or more of our parts who is more typically active and/or in control is able to return to the driver's seat. Sometimes these periods last for only a few minutes, some times for hours, and how long individual parts take before they can return can vary quite a lot as well. Host might be gone for hours while other more active parts return after only a few minutes, or vice versa. We sort of fairly recently cracked and are still trying to figure that the heck we are, and don't yet have a diagnosis. Working on that with our therapist for the past couple of months. I'm not even sure I'm not just imagining all of the chaos half the time. We sure as hell need help though, that's one thing we can't ignore or deny anymore
It can be, as in 'downgraded', but that doesn't happen much, it's more that DID (for example) remains the diagnosis, but without the difficulties. A person could have it completely removed if fully healed.
I’m always very confused about OSDD-1a. Also can someone have less than marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency and no amnesia/ no full amnesia / only emotional amnesia during these switches at the same time, or less than marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency and no “recurring” or non-crisis (feeling) situation (full) switching for a long time (months or years or decades) at the same time? I assume that is just called OSDD-1?
To be honest, in clinical terms, we only really call it OSDD. The differentiation is not massively important as all aspects of the unique individual experience are assessed and worked with, so the actual specific label of 1a or 1b is not relevant. It can be for many people outside of this, or perhaps in research settings.
Yeah I most likely have partial DID, and knowing that it exists and that that's what I experience is helpful for denial. Instead of calling it partial DID, I prefer the term "authoritarian system" cause it sounds funny. I'm the "Dictator" (lmao) and it can be good and bad at times, the good part is that I have control over my own life and have NO memory gaps (except for childhood), the bad part is that I really do respect a lot of my headmates and it sucks that they barely front, and when they do front I'm still in control, just HEAVILY influenced by them which makes me feel like I'll never be able to know them that well, and that I can only learn about them through what I've observed. Being a system in general sucks, but at some point you learn to love your headmates and you genuinely become connected to them, and I wish that the body was able to be shared, I hate being the "Dictator" of my system. Being front-stuck is its own circle of hell, especially since I'm a lot more nihilistic and depressed than some of my other headmates, they'd be WAY better at being a host than me. It'd be nice to let them take control, without me being there, without me being the boss, because it gets tiring, and I'm so fucking tired man. I'm so tired.
Is there somewhere that documents the recommended treatment protocols for DID/partial or OSDD? Can’t seem to find anything specific on NICE guidelines etc
Could you explain this more dr. Lloyd: "Background: Clinical and neurobiological evidence for a dissociative subtype of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) has recently been documented. A disso- ciative subtype of PTSD is being considered for inclusion in the forthcoming Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-Fifth Edition (DSM-5) to address the symptoms of depersonalization and derealization found among a subset of patients with PTSD. This article reviews research related to the dis- sociative subtype including antecedent, concurrent, and predictive validators as well as the rationale for recommending the dissociative subtype. Methods: The relevant literature pertaining to the dissociative subtype of PTSD was reviewed. Results: Latent class analyses point toward a specific subtype of PTSD consisting of symptoms of depersonalization and derealization in both veteran and civilian samples of PTSD. Compared to individuals with PTSD, those with the dissocia- tive subtype of PTSD also exhibit a different pattern of neurobiological response to symptom provocation as well as a differential response to current cognitive behavioral treatment designed for PTSD. Conclusions: We recommend that consideration be given to adding a dissociative subtype of PTSD in the revi- sion of the DSM. This facilitates more accurate analysis of different phenotypes of PTSD, assist in treatment planning that is informed by considering the de- gree of patients’ dissociativity, will improve treatment outcome, and will lead to much-needed research about the prevalence, symptomatology, neurobiology, and treatment of individuals with the dissociative subtype of PTSD. Depression and Anxiety 00:1-8, 2011. C 2011 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. " I look forward to your findings. Thank you!
@@thectadclinic My request is if you can explain that there are differences in the body and brain the moment a person is in a different alter: difference in blood pressure and so on ... even the motorique of the body
If your parts don't have agency, their ability to mess with your life, your job, and your relationships is very different. Being triggered and having to manage a system's needs is very tough. Full stop. Makes life very painful and difficult. But...Being unable to recall where you were, what you did, or being unable to respond/move because a part has taken control of your body and speech is incredibly disruptive to functioning. You can lose your job, lose your partner, lose your kids, and lose your life because they put you in dangerous situations. I am not saying that partial DID isn't painful and crippling. At all. It is. But DID can be the functional equivalent of schizophrenia in ways that OSDD and partial DID rarely are.
By the process of healing DID won‘t be that extreme anylonger. You guys will be able to communicate and shoot for the same aim, at least you won’t fight against each other anymore. But though, at least from my own experience, there will remain several different opinions
I wonder if y'all understand that plurality has existed healthily throughout human history and that the reason people are disordered when they are plural systems is the trauma of hiding and the trauma of having to reinvent the wheel and not knowing what to do because no one is around to teach anymore how to navigate these kinds of things, not pathologize, not imprison in institutions, not be afraid, and these peoples are so often left without the cultural rituals for knowledge transmission and learning that many cultures have previously developed for such people.
We are so glad that we are finally seeing some talk about partial-DID!
I knew that I had more than OSDD going on, and my therapist called it DID because my symptoms were more than OSDD, but I always felt like a fake because I never quite fit overt DID definitions. Having a real word for what I experience helps my denial a ton. It's harder to feel like I'm faking when I know there's recorded explanations for *my* specific symptoms, even if they don't exactly fit what's listed in the DSM.
same here
THIS IS FASCINATING! This has helped me come to the conclusion that I was misdiagnosed with osdd. During the interview with the professional I had a lot of trouble answering the questions and I had a lot of dissociation so I know looking back I did not answer some of the questions correctly because I was too afraid of being completely honest, I think. Or I really just did not know the answer.
That being said, I was recently in the ER for insomnia which was triggered by taking the wrong medication (my Dr made a mistake. All is well tho she fixed it). I informed the staff in the ER that I needed to be with female staff only because I had been sexually assaulted in previous hospitalization experiences by male staff. They were having a shift change and the doctor in the ER was going to be male, so they tried introducing him to me without preparing me for it first and it triggered a trauma response where I was screaming and trying to get away from him but also telling him I knew he wasn't the problem, I was just scared.
I used my service dog to "put Pandora back in her box" as I like to call it, and afterward I was perfectly fine and willing to communicate again.
Long story short, They did have to put me on a psych hold because I wound up staying awake for 52 hours straight (mainly because they encouraged the spinning out of control instead of calming it🙄). I kept referring to myself in the third person and soothing myself like a small child. This was the first time I had undeniable evidence to myself and others around me that the DID i suffer from is indeed real. (I deny it all the time)
Ativan got me to sleep and they sent me home and I recovered with the help of a low dose of Ativan over the course of the next month. I am back to functioning normally. I work full-time, I have horses, I have a lot of friends, and I appear and I function as though I were one whole person.
But internally I do not feel like the same person everyday. I don't even eat the same foods. I struggle to form habits because of this. I do not have strong amnesiac barriers because of lots of trauma informed therapy, but I definitely have strong amnesia surrounding my childhood trauma. If my CPTSD is triggered, then my amnesia barriers seem to come down and I relive the nightmares of my childhood over and over again. But this only happens if I am under extreme duress, do not get adequate sleep, etc. once the duress subsides, so does the pain of chronic flashbacks.
I was thinking that maybe I have partial DID, but perhaps I have full-blown DID with a well integrated system.
There's a lot to discuss with my therapist!
I just wanted to comment and say that this is very similar to what I’ve been going through! I’ve been questioning whether I’ve been faking it since I started looking into plurality as a whole, especially as I don’t have the means to build a support system on the outside. I question myself because I feel as if I don’t fit the criteria, and can’t communicate with anyone, though I’ve had similar experiences in hospitals and do tend to like pat myself and talk out loud to soothe myself when I get upset lol, I relate to that bit. I am at a point where I genuinely don’t know who I am anymore at any given time. I couldn’t tell you if you asked lol, though I always feel conscious and generally in control.
Of course there’s a ton more, but I’m a tad tired and don’t want to dump it all on a stranger on the internet. Just wanted to say you’re not alone, and I relate very much! Seeing your experience has been very validating for me ^^
Great to hear more about OSDD and how other forms of DID present
Hope it is helpful!
The work you do is undeniably important. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research, with those of us who cannot afford mental healthcare. (I live in the USA 🙄) I wish I was where you are, so I could receive actual help. You are making more and more people feel valid and heard with your work. I can understand more and more what is happening within my brain. I’ve known about my “system” since I was a pre-teen. I knew something wasn’t quite “right.” I have an inner world, with people in it and visit it often. Sometimes I watch from a “cave” behind my eyes as the world continues to go on around me. Like I’m inside of a giant robot, watching from a giant window surrounded by that cave. Every time I have explained this inner world and cave, when I got older, I was met with “You have BPD.” I only have one maybe two symptoms of BPD. Both of which and the rest of my symptoms ALL correlate with possibly having DID. The more I learn about this disorder, the more order I have with in my mind and body. I may never fully be one person. My 8 year old son may always ask me “why are you a baby today? Why did I hear a man in the kitchen? (I’m a woman) Why do you have an accent?” But I am no longer frightened of being me, thanks to you and Jess from “Multiplicity & Me.” Thanking you does not seem like enough, but it is all I have to give to you. So again, for a second time in this post, Thank You Dr Lloyd. 💖🕯
I feel like there is also a ranking of 'how severe your disorder/suffering is' and 'how bad your trauma has been' between DID and OSDD. Where things are considered worse for DID and lighter for OSDD (and partial DID). But, being diagnosed with DID and in close relation with someone with OSDD, I think this is not so straightforward. Having clearly distinct parts that can speak and act for themselves can be easier to understand and communicate with. There are names to refer to, parts can talk to a therapist and explain their view, etc. Not that there is anything easy about living with DID. But I think OSDD can be (even) harder to accept/make sense of/go to therapy with than DID. And the type and amount of trauma can be the same for any of the dissociative disorders. Or people could judge the trauma in the early life of someone with for example DPDR as much 'worse' than my trauma. I guess I just wanted to say that these things are complex and subtle, and unfortunately there can be a struggle to feel (and be) validated in any of these diagnoses and the impact.
Yeah. Plus, that idea doesn't explain how people with absolutely horrific trauma are still able to remember it, and other people who underwent lesser amounts of trauma (not that the traumas themselves aren't impactful, but it may have happened once or twice or it may not have involved physical acts, which is typically seen as "lighter trauma") can have repressed memories. I think it has to do with the level of support a child has, their age, and the child's predisposed inclinations towards dissociation rather than other methods of coping.
One thing that’s never been clear to me with respect to the distinction between DID and OSDD is whether when you have OSDD another part can totally take control and you disappear and lose all memory of what happened (i.e., complete amnesia).
I have never received a diagnosis but three and a half years ago I happened to look up on the Internet someone I knew very briefly over 35 years previously and was surprised at how upset I was at learning that someone I knew so casually died a few years after I knew him. This bothered me for six months until finally after looking up some pictures of him on the Internet memories started to return to me. I recalled that the second time I was with him as we left a nightspot together and he turned to say something to me, he dissolved into mist and I have absolutely no recollection of what happened that night after that. As a matter of fact, I remembered nothing about him for 15 or 20 years. I also recalled that several years earlier somebody had come up to me in a nightclub very excited to see me and ultimately stalked away in anger because I had no recollection of him, which I thought at the time was a bizarre case of mistaken identity.
So although I never received a diagnosis of DID or OSDD, and perhaps never had either of them, some part of me was obviously taking over in nightlife settings and I don’t know how often it happened. I also believe now that something traumatic happened to that part the second evening “I” was with that fellow, as a result of which the part ultimately disappeared. A few years later, I attended a support group for adults abused as children and remembered that I had suffered extremely horrific abuse as a small child, perhaps because that part was no longer functioning to keep the knowledge from me.
But that’s beyond the scope of my question. I think it would be helpful for the sources to clarify with respect to OSDD whether complete amnesia can occur which they generally don’t do. Of course, ultimately it doesn’t matter for me what I had or didn’t have because it was a long time ago, and perhaps it doesn’t matter for anyone as long as they have a good clinician who can help them, but we all seem to have a need to put a name to what’s happening or happened to us.
The last three and a year years have been quite a journey for me. The CTAD Clinic videos have been a great source of information about dissociation for me and I am very grateful that you have made them available to the public.
Tom
Chicago, Illinois
USA
OSDD is not one thing. It is a collection of presentations which either fall short of DID (DSM), or both fall short of DID, and cannot be classified as P-DID. So, under the DSM, OSDD would be “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more…personality states, but lacking of part of the “marked [and/or “distinct”] discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency” criteria, lack of all of the “related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning” or lack of “recurrent gaps in the recall of [events] inconsistent with everyday forgetting. Under the ICD, “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more…personality states, but lacking of part of the “ related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning” criteria, or the “ and possibly also the “personality states recurrently take executive control of the individuals’s consciousness and functioning” criteria.”
Whereas P-DID under the ICD-11 would be “Distruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states,” and “marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency” and “related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning”but lacking only the “personality states recurrently take executive control of the individuals’s consciousness and functioning” criteria of DID.
Always up to date, relevant and helpful. Thank you Dr. Lloyd, g
Very welcome!
I can understand this, because if a mental health care professional does not have a full history or background on the patient yet, they need to put them somewhere to bill and treat. Good video.😊 also since I have touched the subject on self harm issues I would love to see you talk about this issue as well and why this behavoir takes place and how a professional works on that issue in this disorder, if you have time.
That would definitely be a good idea, thank you!
Hmmm... I was diagnosed with OSDD (DDNOS back then) in 1995 because, as well as having alters, I also showed symptoms of Dissociative Fugue and Derealisation, which, back then, fell into their own, separate categories of the five classified under Dissociative Disorders. I always assumed I got what's now known as the OSDD diagnosis because I technically didn't fit into just one of the first four categories, so they threw me into the fifth, 'catch-all' of DDNOS ('Dissociative Disorders Not Otherwise Specified,' I believe it stood for?)
However, having listened to your definitions in this video, Partial DID sounds a lot closer to how I experience my system and alters. So now I'm kind of confused! The Dissociative Fugue and Derealisation are still things I occasionally experience in times of extreme stress along with my alters influencing my behaviour - but I'm not sure, with the new classifiations, if that still keeps me in the 'catch-all category' of OSDD or not?
Thank you as always for these incredibly helpful videos!!
It's so refreshing for an expert to be talking about nuance and flexibility within the spectrum of dissociative disorders, rather than exact categorization of symptoms.
Thank you!
made so much sense. not to self diagnose ( i will send this over to my psychotherapist ), but i do know where am i in the spectrum. thank you doc!
never knew about partial DID but it makes since, thank you so much!
Well it’s time to speak about sth “more” than my cPTSD to my psychologist.
I started using “parts” terminology bc it literally describes what it feels inside. I’m usually aware about everything around me but I rather frequently (depends on how many triggers are in a day) move towards inside and specific part act through me. The passenger in a car is perf analogy. I know what’s happening, I have my own opinions or feelings about it but can’t help acting like a specific part wants. For example self-harming in very high stress situations: my adult self knows it’s not a good idea but can’t do anything but doing what one of my teen part wants and they want to escape through pain like they were doing years ago. I have many inner conflicts on a daily basis, I feel that some parts although having different coping strategies act and support each other and some parts hate others (especially teen ragefull part hates child part fawning to attach bc teen blames the child for being not good enough and making teen “do the dirty work”). My inner world (not like a specific place but like everything that’s happening inside) has always been complex, and I think that my parts are too differentiated to be “just” cPTSD parts but I really don’t know if I’m not exaggerating. It’s all weird and messy. Always in conflict. Always pretending something.
I relate a lot to this description
C-PTSD here: When I started doing trauma work w/ my therapist, she brought in the IFS model & parts work alongside EMDR... I was initially super resistant because I thought it was stupid. "I'm ME & I'm not going to sit here & play pretend, as though I'm not the one making MY decisions & living w/ MY trauma". And then, well... It was largely because of acknowledging various parts that I made any amount of progress w/ EMDR. I was far too dissociated to make headway, but other parts? They managed it. They could connect when I was unable. And then when I was shaken by that, they were the only ones who could help comfort me... There was also a moment in an EMDR session when a feeling washed over me that felt like... If all of my rage & contempt were a person & I let them take over because it was intoxicating & wonderful to express my hatred.
I don't know what to make of any of that, really... I don't know if it's something more than C-PTSD or if the compartmentalization of the self in C-PTSD is just something that isn't talked about enough to where I knew to expect it. I haven't done EMDR in a while because I stopped being able to progress due to dissociation & to present day stuff being more distressing, but... I'll figure it out someday.
Thank you Dr. Mike, I’ve never seen anyone explain all three of these so clearly. It finally makes sense! Thank you! I still don’t know where we fit for sure, because stuff is so so confusing, but I think OSDD would fit at first.
Thanks Dr Lloyd for attempting to clear up the criteria for the different diagnoses. Here on the ground I feel like things are a lot more blurry since whenever we individuals were “built” we weren’t following published rules, therefore we can be messier than the criteria acknowledge. Other than for treatment, which is largely the same across the differences, I can see that diagnosis might be used for purposes such as disability or treatment intensity.
Perhaps a useful view might be also defining us by degree of impairment, rather than simply the display/intrusiveness of parts: those who cannot function fully in life, those who function okay with breaks in that ability, those who limp along with disruptions in relationship or capability barely visible to outsiders (all subject to change). I’m not sure that diagnosis accurately captures the above.
Hi, the actual diagnostic categories do take functional impairment and distress into account, they are necessary features. This was purely looking at the differences between specific classifications.
I was recently diagnosed with CPTSD and during the assessment a lot of questions about dissociation and parts came up. And I started to wonder if maybe these internal conflicts I have and these "extra" thoughts are actual -parts-. I didn't get an OSDD or any such additional diagnosis because the therapist said that since this is a new thing for me to consider, more time and therapy needs to be spent to figure out if the term "dissociative symptoms" in my medical journal is enough to describe my experiences or if there needs to be a secondary diagnosis.
It's all confusing and troubling, this video did help me understand the differences between the different states/diagnoses. I found myself nodding along in understanding and recognition of a few things, too. Thank you for the video.
How can you get an accurate diagnosis if you can't tell the truth and be heard?
Oh you just described me exactly as i would have described myself. Things are finally moving forward for me now at last.
Glad to hear it!
Excellent discussion! We've been wondering about these distinctions. Thanks for sharing 💜
You are so welcome!
diagnosed twice with DID via clinical symptoms and The MID but P-DID is really accurate to our experience
It's still not clear to me. I don't think I have alters. But I can change radically in my attitudes/values overall mood from time to time. E.g. currently I have high libido, am actively flirting on hookup sites, am quite beligerant on certain forums where people are coming across as pompous twits. At other times, I become Ghost -- as visible as glass, move like fog. My voice goes very quiet, enough that people have keep saying what. I have no boundaries. I don't matter to anyone. Not even me. I am hypervigialnt, ready to make a silent exit, or run like hell.
There is a version of me that is indifferent. IDGAF. Alienated from people. Alienated from self? That person has zero self worth. Nothing matters. Life is just waiting to die and get it over with.
And there is a version of me that is between, watching the world, content to just be. There are other combinations, but remembering emotional states has always been difficult for me. I don't really remember emotions. I remember narrative descriptions of emotions.
Thing is, whichever Me is dominant regards the others as somehow wierd and deluded. But there is no apparent memory gaps.
It would take close observation for an external observer to see these changes. My T is pretty good.
you explain things so well - thankyou!
This is actually really nice to hear as an undiagnosed system. I do want to get diagnosed, but I currently have some form of DID/OSDD, but the only one that fit the bill was OSDD. Hearing about the notion of a “partial” DID is quite nice since that describes how it works for me more than the other two. Of course I still need an official diagnosis, but this helps a lot
This is very interesting. I may well correspond to partial DID
Could you please explain the difference between "distinct" and "less distinct" personality states? How to distinguish them?
Thank you very much for this invaluable info! This helps a lot.
For me it feels like I have a “ self” that manages the parts but the parts run the body. Sometimes with co-consciousness but other times it feels like the “ self” is just an observing from the back and can collect clues that a part is forward and what part is forward but isn’t able to influence decision making. The “self” is put in the back when I am triggered or if a new part comes forward. I thought I had achieved full integration of parts but just learned of another part I had some awareness of but no access too. That part was triggered forward a few weeks ago and since then I have been losing so much time and feel like I’m in the back more often than the front. It’s been difficult feeling like I have had such a large regression in such a short amount of time.
I haven’t been formally diagnosed but have a great therapist who is understanding and as validating as she can be but sometimes it feels like even she doesn’t understand my experiences as they feel so difficult to articulate to others.
this is very informative...
I dont usually completely forget things, i.e. i maintain some level of consciousness at most times, but there are things i completely black out for. Apparently i worked 3 weeks at a pizza place i hated so much i walked out in the middle of a shift and forgot to put it on my taxes (dw, we didnt make any money while we were there). I vaguely remember some of it, but mostly i lost access to that memory for a while. I also will temporarily forget whole days or events. So i never know where I'd fall, and the "professionals" in my area are low quality and not experienced in these problems, if they recognize them at all.
Thanks you always help me rrally inderstand myself
It’s striking to me that amnesia was not centered. I think that is a shift either internationally (either with a more ICD focus rather than a complete DSM focus, or if that is simply a difference of emphasis.
Im even more confused now on where i fit. I had thought OSDD based on what i've read over the last few years, but as discussed here it sounds more like DID. The biggest thing that doesn't fit is that we really don't have memory loss between alters fronting, and we have a lot of co-fronting. So like, we have a bad memory as a collective and things are fuzzy, but for the most part we ALL have the same fuzzy and the same memories. Switching doesn't make other memories clear and different ones fuzzy. They are all always fuzzy no matter who is up.
I'm still slightly confused. I am formally diagnosed with CPTSD, and I self-diagnosed with OSDD/P-DID about a year ago, because I have distinct personality states, but no black-out amnesia and I'm usually the host (or at least have significant influence from the host), and the lines between parts can be a bit blurry (some are more distinct, but the clear distinctions only really come forth when heavily triggered). I was never quite sure whether my self-assessment was correct, or if DID was a more accurate diagnosis. It's kind of hard for me to know my own symptoms because of amnesia and regularly going into denial. Based on your video, I'm pretty sure I have P-DID,. But it's not clear whether that would be DID or OSDD in the DSM-V. Not that it matters, I guess, since where I live (Norway) the ICD-10 is what's currently in use (despite being outdated). I probably won't get a formal diagnosis, since it makes no difference for treatment and I'm getting my treatment privately (and in the UK, since crossing borders was the only way to get the expertise I needed).
Can partial did and OSDD come together? Partial did makes a lot sense, but all the internal confusions and dialogues and the DP /DR reactions come and go. My life today is rich and good but I still seek the understanding of us.
Other than being reassessed by different professionals and have your diagnosis formally changed- is it possible that your diagnosis changes over time? Like someone starts with DID but with treatment it begins to look more like partial DID and then OSDD? Or is it once you are in a category that’s it and it’s that you still have DID but you’ve learned skills that make it more “functional” for daily life ?
This is often the goal of treatment!
Partial did makes a whole lot of sense. But still the internal confusion and diffusion is that more like OSDD?
Likely to be, as there is no real external process, other than reactive.
I thought that in C-PTSD, parts can be triggered to take over (if i understand the theory of Structural Dissociation). How does this happening in C-PTSD differ from it happening in OSDD or partial DID?
I dont know what to do anymore. Like you mentioned in another video, I survive day to day, my life goes on, but I'm not really living, im not thriving, and i feel like im living with a giant cloud of despair behind me all the time. How can i ever grow and learn as a person if they keep taking control and ruining my life and the things that happen dont happen to me and i dont feel the effect those things have on my life
Thanks so much
I have DID and am fairly integrated now. I am interested in learning about hypervigilance in my marriage. I want to stop scanning him for whether or not he is satisfied or about to judge me (which he does NOT do!)
What does it mean when a part takes "executive control" vs internally influencing? Specifically with regards to possession and non possession forms of DID compared to the other labels. Was curious on an elaboration on that front. Much appreciated video though, cheers!
Hi Dr. Lloyd, I feel a little confused about the range of possibilities here. If someone has 1 or 2 EPs, who only present occasionally in contexts where it is functional for them to do so and who present through the ANP/host (host is aware 'someone else' is in charge but is the one doing the talking etc)-is this OSDD please? Or partial DID?
In the moment, I long for peace and healing. After a lot of good therapy some of the criterias fade out. I suppose some other difficulties often come with us as well? Like depression, suicidal thoughts, ocd, body dysmorphia or eating disorders..?
How have you found a diagnosis to change over time? It's fair to have an initial diagnosis of one of these types of dissociation, but does the type shift as treatment continues? Does the client go from symptoms of DID to no DID, or can they shift to more generic OSDD, and then to no symptoms?
It was my understanding that the difference between DID vs OSDD-1B was that DID has memory segmentation (each headmate having only access to memories they personally experienced, or were directly told about by others, and mostly blackout in-between) whereas OSDD-1B does not (each headmate is still a distinct person, but all have shared memory, though possibly with depersonalisation/derealisation as to memories belonging to a different headmate).
You didn't mention this framing at all, and instead described OSDD as being about headmates that are less distinct from each other or that aren't full persons (e.g. that only rarely present and only for very narrow purposes); I thought that was only OSDD-1A.
Have I misunderstood something?
OSDD-1A and B aren't things - it's just OSDD-1. The 1A and B comes from the previous DDNOS diagnosis that I guess a load of people have gotten mixed up on the change
In partial DID can the host be replaced by what until that point has only been a passively influencing part of limited agency? Can there be a case that due to change in the system or an external trigger, the part without agency takes over the executive system and the body and takes the place of the host?
I wish, but I don't know.
Thankyou
I have a question. I watch all of your videos, by the way! I really like how you explained in a video with the glasses and a pan of water, how DID is explained. that being said, if were all pieces of the same pie, so to speak, if one part has a lot of reasoning, or higher IQ level, does that take away from the rest? or is that a shared type of thing? I came to realize I was 3 hours from home with nl shoes on and no car once, then I was back at home. so I'm glad what ever did that, fixed it, but I was just wondering if say a personality trait, or reasoning, or mood, as you are finite, it stands to reason what makes you, you, is finite, getting myself confused lol. sorry for the drawn out question here. but was wondering if that the case. Love your videos, they have been the most helpful at attempting to manage!
Thank you for the feedback! I would say parts are only limited by the nature of the whole, we are still discovering possibilities, so keep an open mind!
@@thectadclinic will do! thank you for your approach to,, and explaining DID has helped me greatly and not to be ashamed of it! thank you. and i look forward to more videos!
Are there any links were i can study Partial DID? Im starting to make an online book about it and cant seem to find a lot of information on it.
Even though im not a professional, ive been researching for a while and i seem to give out good information on it, and i want to study this in life.
Also im wondering if i actually have this disorder, all sources that have the symptoms seem to fit me, though i cant get a diagnosis yet since i cant afford it, nor cant eve get diagnosed with it since i live in america.
What makes it confusing is that some places only use the DSM or ICD, so even if you fit one, you may get diagnosed with the other. I fit P-DID more than OSDD-1, in my opinion, but if I were to get diagnosed, it would be with OSDD-1 since I'm in the US.
would you know any experts in your field that one could reach out to when living in other countries than the UK?
The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, or other European countries that would have institutions comparable to the CTAD Clinic?
There are plenty of specialist centres, go to ESTD for a map of people involved across Europe.
Curious.. Two or more states that take executive control. What precisely does that mean?
My son has one ‘part’ that takes over to prevent his primary personality from being able to communicate any further. He becomes frozen, unable to talk or move for anywhere up to an hour at a time. Then when he comes to, he bawls his eyes out, and says he was stuck inside and this ‘part’ had taken over to stop him continuing the conversation we were having. But he can never remember what we were talking about, and believes this part somehow veils parts of his memory.
This part never talks to me, but seems to always be listening. Has even started to bring my son back if I promise not to continue the conversation we were having.
Assessments are happening over the next few weeks. But his psychologist suspects OSDD and his psychiatrist suspects DID.
Would appreciate the thoughts of anyone with any experience.
Does the ICD not distinguish between OSDD 1a and 1b?
Is there a skid d for children and teens?
This is a strange way to talk about it though, aren't OSDD-1a and -1b Diagnoses within the DSM-5?
The ICD is a completely different diagnostical System (the International one) and it uses a slightly different way to categorize and name certain Symptoms and Disorders.
So: There is no OSDD in the ICD-11...👀
pDID (partial DID) in the ICD-11 is OSDD (DSM-5) basically. [pDID used to be called DDNOS in the ICD-10].
To distinguish between the two, as if it was in the same Diagnostical-System is not accurate and confusing!👀🤔
What is your reason to do so anyway? (Maybe it is handled differtenly in the UK? I am from Germany, we only use the ICD. So there is no OSDD-Diagnosis at all. But it would still be confusing to explain it, as if there where even more Diagnoses🤷🏼♀️)
Your comment (thank you!) shows the inherent difficulty with OSDD - the 1a and 1b are all about amnesia, without really taking into account the way alters work. Partial DID is in the ICD-11, not in the DSM-V (which is used here) but so is OSDD, but for different reasons - it is more like unspecified DD in the DSM-V. I don't think the two collaborated and left us with lots of interesting conundrums!
Im trying to get diagnosed for either DID or OSDD. None of the psychiatrists where I live seem to tackle dissociative disorders, though. I dont know if I want to spend $300 to see them, only to be told they don’t go that deep. Im mot rlly sure what to do at this stage,,
I always thought that one criteria for DID is amnesia on a day to day basis and that if you don`t have this kind of amnesia you have partial DID or OSDD not DID. Did I get that wrong?
You don't have to have daily amnesia to qualify for a DID diagnosis, as far as I know. And you can also get an OSDD-1 diagnosis if you have amnesia, but your parts are not distinct enough for a DID diagnosis, or that's at least what I've read online (in the DID/OSDD community spaces they often call it OSDD-1a)
I've also heard DID amnesia can look very different from system to system. Some have complete amnesia between switches, others don't have any amnesia between switches, and many have a mix of these two
@@xx-sof-xx ok. thanks. But what does "distinct enough" means? Like that they have different names and ages?
@@butterflyb.9135 Thanks for your answer. Does that mean your are all the time there, but sometimes you just observe the others? But how does the amnesia occur then? I am jut curious☺
Well in our case, we often have multiple parts active at least in the background, sometimes more overtly however depending on circumstances, and this often shifts quite fluidly. Our host is usually in the driver's seat, but sometimes we might be triggered to flip between someone who is already aware and interacting with our host. Feels like suddenly changing who's in the driver's seat and who's in the passenger seat. There's little to no amnesia in these cases.
Other times something happens and everyone who was active is either suddenly in head space or blacks out completely. And we have no idea what is or has happened in the interim. Usually accompanied by a panic attack and terrible headache when we shift back to what is more normal for us where one or more of our parts who is more typically active and/or in control is able to return to the driver's seat. Sometimes these periods last for only a few minutes, some times for hours, and how long individual parts take before they can return can vary quite a lot as well. Host might be gone for hours while other more active parts return after only a few minutes, or vice versa.
We sort of fairly recently cracked and are still trying to figure that the heck we are, and don't yet have a diagnosis. Working on that with our therapist for the past couple of months. I'm not even sure I'm not just imagining all of the chaos half the time. We sure as hell need help though, that's one thing we can't ignore or deny anymore
💙💙💙
As one heals and becomes less dissociative, more unified, more or less functional, does the diagnosis change?
It can be, as in 'downgraded', but that doesn't happen much, it's more that DID (for example) remains the diagnosis, but without the difficulties. A person could have it completely removed if fully healed.
“Then they retreat” leaving us to pick up the mess 😩
That does happen.
Is there a partial osdd?
Your a very cool dude
bless you!! My cats think so, too...
Could you do a video please do how to work to reduce mind control / ritual abuse if you have experience here ? Thanks for all your work
What am I like?
I’m always very confused about OSDD-1a. Also can someone have less than marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency and no amnesia/ no full amnesia / only emotional amnesia during these switches at the same time, or less than marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency and no “recurring” or non-crisis (feeling) situation (full) switching for a long time (months or years or decades) at the same time? I assume that is just called OSDD-1?
To be honest, in clinical terms, we only really call it OSDD. The differentiation is not massively important as all aspects of the unique individual experience are assessed and worked with, so the actual specific label of 1a or 1b is not relevant. It can be for many people outside of this, or perhaps in research settings.
Yeah I most likely have partial DID, and knowing that it exists and that that's what I experience is helpful for denial.
Instead of calling it partial DID, I prefer the term "authoritarian system" cause it sounds funny.
I'm the "Dictator" (lmao) and it can be good and bad at times, the good part is that I have control over my own life and have NO memory gaps (except for childhood), the bad part is that I really do respect a lot of my headmates and it sucks that they barely front, and when they do front I'm still in control, just HEAVILY influenced by them which makes me feel like I'll never be able to know them that well, and that I can only learn about them through what I've observed.
Being a system in general sucks, but at some point you learn to love your headmates and you genuinely become connected to them, and I wish that the body was able to be shared, I hate being the "Dictator" of my system. Being front-stuck is its own circle of hell, especially since I'm a lot more nihilistic and depressed than some of my other headmates, they'd be WAY better at being a host than me.
It'd be nice to let them take control, without me being there, without me being the boss, because it gets tiring, and I'm so fucking tired man.
I'm so tired.
Is there somewhere that documents the recommended treatment protocols for DID/partial or OSDD? Can’t seem to find anything specific on NICE guidelines etc
The ISST-D have the international standard guidelines, free to download from their website.
Could you explain this more dr. Lloyd:
"Background: Clinical and neurobiological evidence for a dissociative subtype of
posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) has recently been documented. A disso-
ciative subtype of PTSD is being considered for inclusion in the forthcoming
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-Fifth Edition (DSM-5)
to address the symptoms of depersonalization and derealization found among a
subset of patients with PTSD. This article reviews research related to the dis-
sociative subtype including antecedent, concurrent, and predictive validators as
well as the rationale for recommending the dissociative subtype. Methods: The
relevant literature pertaining to the dissociative subtype of PTSD was reviewed.
Results: Latent class analyses point toward a specific subtype of PTSD consisting
of symptoms of depersonalization and derealization in both veteran and civilian
samples of PTSD. Compared to individuals with PTSD, those with the dissocia-
tive subtype of PTSD also exhibit a different pattern of neurobiological response
to symptom provocation as well as a differential response to current cognitive
behavioral treatment designed for PTSD. Conclusions: We recommend that
consideration be given to adding a dissociative subtype of PTSD in the revi-
sion of the DSM. This facilitates more accurate analysis of different phenotypes
of PTSD, assist in treatment planning that is informed by considering the de-
gree of patients’ dissociativity, will improve treatment outcome, and will lead to
much-needed research about the prevalence, symptomatology, neurobiology, and
treatment of individuals with the dissociative subtype of PTSD. Depression and
Anxiety 00:1-8, 2011. C 2011 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. " I look forward to your findings. Thank you!
Not sure what the question is, DP/DR was entered into the DSM-5, and can be seen as a standalone condition.
@@thectadclinic My request is if you can explain that there are differences in the body and brain the moment a person is in a different alter: difference in blood pressure and so on ... even the motorique of the body
this is interesting, the only part I've found that can take executive control is a two yo who's only role is attatchment
Walker Timothy Hernandez Patricia Anderson Margaret
If your parts don't have agency, their ability to mess with your life, your job, and your relationships is very different. Being triggered and having to manage a system's needs is very tough. Full stop. Makes life very painful and difficult. But...Being unable to recall where you were, what you did, or being unable to respond/move because a part has taken control of your body and speech is incredibly disruptive to functioning. You can lose your job, lose your partner, lose your kids, and lose your life because they put you in dangerous situations. I am not saying that partial DID isn't painful and crippling. At all. It is. But DID can be the functional equivalent of schizophrenia in ways that OSDD and partial DID rarely are.
By the process of healing DID won‘t be that extreme anylonger. You guys will be able to communicate and shoot for the same aim, at least you won’t fight against each other anymore. But though, at least from my own experience, there will remain several different opinions
What kind of accent do you have?
Not much of one at all, really.
I wonder if y'all understand that plurality has existed healthily throughout human history and that the reason people are disordered when they are plural systems is the trauma of hiding and the trauma of having to reinvent the wheel and not knowing what to do because no one is around to teach anymore how to navigate these kinds of things, not pathologize, not imprison in institutions, not be afraid, and these peoples are so often left without the cultural rituals for knowledge transmission and learning that many cultures have previously developed for such people.
so uhh, i think i got Partial-DID gang...