Is U.S.S. Reliant in Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan ACTUALLY a Warship??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2023
- Let's do a CG Animated breakdown about whether the USS Reliant, a Miranda Class Cruiser, breaks the Starfleet tradition of NOT building warships!
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The Miranda variants are patrol and scout ships. The constitution, excelsior and ambassador classes are primarily meant for very long deep space exploration. Although it seems they don't do very much of that. If you're really serious about exploring space you probably wouldn't stop at making twelve of them.
You have to play the Star Trek RPG for it to make sense the Miranda was actually a warship design to match the Klingon bird-of-prey during the federation-klingon war.
As for the Cruisers, the reason for their limited number was they originally appeared as the Klingon War begin and they were found to be extremely vulnerable to ambushes by cloaked Klingon ships and were simultaneously no match for Klingon battle Cruisers.
Basically much like you saw with the Defiant and Voyager class ships the federations approach to war is small and extremely low crew combat ships with a heavy punch.
The exceptions of course being the Sovereign and Odyssey class ships which were easily designed to go toe-to-toe with Borg cubes alone.
Well, there may only be 12 Constitution Class ships, but the Sombra Class is very similar. It's likely that Starfleet had various long range ships.
Why does everyone get that wrong? Kirk said that there were 12 like her in the fleet so 13 total.
They didn't stop at 12. kirk's mention of their being 12 can be interpreted as how many were active at that particular time in 2267 before the war over Organia. If anything, we can argue that the appearance of the Oberth class (USS Grissom in ST III) clearly indicates the multilateral starship designs serving together concurrently with one another. There may have only been possibly 20 or 30 Connie's active between say 2260 and 2290, but it doesn't mean they were the sole deep space explorers. Individually they were more than likely supplanted by the Constellations, the Oberth's, the Miranda's, and even FASA design's such as the Chandleys, Northamptons, Chicagos, Antares, Remoras, Striders (even though were heavy escorts for their time imo). Point is, there was definitely no way Starfleet only had 12 ships doing this mission work. Starfleet is massive and so was the Federation in the TOS era. Can't quite cover all that ground with a dozen ships playing space tag. we just never saw them because shoe string budgets and all this stuff was invented well after the show ended in the 70s and 80s.
Oh, there's another "not-a-warship" name for a Federation warship: a "patrol ship." ;)
We have to keep in mind, that the Federation started out as a military alliance, and that in the TOS era, Starfleet was still a military organization first, and exploration group 2nd. As such, most of their starships where indeed warships first, this includes the Constitution, which was front and center during ANY conflict. That said, these warships all had secondary roles in exploration, as demonstrated by Reliant supporting the Genesis project, by surveying planets to target.
Agree. That's also why most (if not, all) of their top of the line "explorer" are more than a match for dedicated warships from other major races. "Explorer" classification are purely politic.
(Btw from that aside, i realy wish we can have new series w/ pure explorer w/ minimal weaponry as the main hero ship. Kinda miss the firefly series)
I mean, look at NASA. It's definitely a civilian organization that's dedicated to science, and yet they also have military aircraft that have been refitted for research/testbed purposes. There's no reason why the same can't apply for Starfleet. I get a little tired of people vehemently stating that Starfleet is not a military organization. US military branches also have scientific and research units that also cooperate with NASA and other civilian scientific agencies as well as academic institutions. "Military" shouldn't be seen as a pejorative when discussing Starfleet. It's a necessary evil. Strategic Air Command, a now-defunct command of the United States Air Force, had the slogan, "Peace Is Our Profession."
NO. By definition, Starfleet is an exploratory and mutual-defense organization. They have heavy armaments upon their ships because they may need to engage in military actions to defend themselves or others, and because they are exploring in uncharted areas where again, they may need to defend themselves from previously unknown hostile forces. That being said, Starfleet is first and foremost about scientific exploration. Watch Boimler's rant when he and Mariner are put on recruitment duty in 'Lower Decks'. Starfleet will fight if necessary - remember, crooked Admirals and Section 31 aside, the duties of your average Starfleet vessel primarily includes exploration or diplomatic duties, or the operational duties required to maintain Starfleet in ready condition for whatever happens. I'd also remind you that with over 300 years in existence (as of 'ST: Discovery'), Starfleet only started building dedicated warships only after the Borg attack at Wolf 359.
@@brothergrimace3859 "That being said, Starfleet is first and foremost about scientific exploration. " - - - That was the line given in the TNG era. But the Genesis of the UFP, was as a military alliance, and Starfleet, was their version of NATO's North Atlantic Council.
“Her 5 year mission: to explore strange new worlds; to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no one has gone before”
I think the Miranda makes sense as a TNG-era hauler. They're old, but not too old to still be around doing light duty Starfleet work in known/safe space, or in the hands of Federation civilians. And the boxy superstructure on the back of the saucer seems like it would be easier to covert into big open cargo spaces than a lot of other Starfleet ships.
The TNG era Nebula class can be considered the Miranda class successor. It does have the Galaxy class saucer and nacelles, but mounted under the hull. It does have the modular rollbar attachment on top of the hull. We have seen the USS Pheonix with the large sensor pod on this attachement. We have also seen an additional weapon module on this same attachment on the USS Sutherland. There probably is a cargo pod as well.
I always assumed the Miranda-class to be a ‘utility frigate’ of sorts. A small, multipurpose ship for roles that don’t need a full-size Constitution or similar. Something like a mid/late 23rd century equivalent to the California-class, if you will. With the adaptability and modularity of the Cali-class, as mentioned in the video.
On the assumption there was a ‘TOS Miranda’ design later refitted into what we see in TWoK, with increasing tensions with the Klingons, it makes sense the ‘utility’ ship would be disproportionately well-armed in case it finds itself the only Starfleet presence somewhere a probing Klingon Bird of Prey, or K’Tinga battlegroup, appears…
More than a frigate, a light cruiser. But as the ships grow in size, it would be reclassified as a frigate.
But it has more internal volume than the Constitution, by about 20%. EC Henry did a really good analysis of relative volume.
@@thegreenmanofnorwich That sometimes has happened with more modern ships than previous ones classified as another class, attending to issues beyond displacement For example the HMS Exeter was a heavy cruiser launched in 1929 with 10,410 tons and yet the HMS Edinburgh a light cruiser launched 9 years later had 13,175 tons.
It is clear that other things such as armament are taken into consideration here, but it could be that Starfleet also had other considerations when assigning classes.
For example, knowing the Starfleet, it could be a mixture between its displacement, its armament capacity, its defensive capacity and its ability to remain independent for long moments of time as well as perform exploration functions that after all is the main task of the Starfleet. And the design of separating the nacelles as much as possible from the hull poses a greater efficiency of the system in general and greater safety for the crew.
But in addition, there is another possible explanation.
Whether the USS Excelsior was already planned and under construction or in the initial pre-design phases and that influenced the class assigned to the Miranda class and with them the Reliant.
Although I sincerely choose that it is an average of offensive capabilities, defensive operational autonomy and ability to conduct long-range explorations. Something for which the Enterprise is possibly even better prepared.
Although if we go to volume 1 / revised of Ships of the Star Fleet, the Reliant that appears as a heavy frigate class (there a lot of more similar desing with several mission profile because there are several very similar with different configurations), appear with a standard displacement of 150,000 tons (light load in 144,000 tons at full load 156,000 tons). While the USS Enterprise already as a subclass Enterprise (after the experimental refit), appears with 210,000 tons of standard displacement (light load 206,000 tons and full load 215,000 tons of displacemen). Although from the moment in which one thing is the cubic meters (volume) and another the tons of displacement (mass) if it is possible that differences arise, depending on whether for example the navigation baffle is a much heavier element than the rest or even the matter-antimatter reactor and not to mention the plasma and warp plasma conduits, something the Enterprise has in a comparatively brutal amount that the Reliant doesn't seem to have or need add a lot of mass.
And if we take into account the displacement of super-carriers such as those of the Nimitz class, it is possible that these calculations maybe can be correct sufficiently realistic.
But to the question of whether it is a "warship" I think the most obvious answer is that possibly yes, since its main function seems to add great firepower, possibly to defend critical facilities ... and without a doubt, the Genesis Project deserves that qualification even if only one ship had been sent and no more so as not to attract too much attention to that installation.
@@Timberjac Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser in context of Mid 20th Century is a whole different animal. The terms Heavy and Light were used to refer to their armament. Light cruiser's main armaments were not bigger than 6.1" calibre and Heavy cruisers' main armaments not bigger than 8" calibre. Both were restricted to 10k tonnage displacement respectively under the naval treaties. Something like a Brooklyn with her 15x 6" guns is capable of more firepower than an Admiral Hipper Heavy Cruiser and her 8x 8" by sheer volume of fire rate.
Except it’s not small (probably bigger than Enterprise), more compact (easier to manoeuvre), and much more heavily armed.😊
The Miranda class is a very versatile ship that why she survive even into the 24th century, she could play many roles in fleet, include a warship.
I feel the Miranda is a utility light cruiser. It is the jack of all trades type of horse. She has had the ability to do multiple roles and can quickly reconfigured to change its roles whether it’s scientific,exploratory, escort or tactical patrols, she is quickly adaptable to whatever role is needed which explains her longevity of a ship.
After the Enterprise vs Reliant battle it would be cool to see a Miranda vs K’Tinga battle
yes it would
@@keithrees4755 The Miranda is a capable vessel, most commandants sadly sucked, give Kirk a Miranda and he will kick Darth Vaders A.... ;)
@@Schlipperschlopper yes i think because its small in size and has no 2ndery hull to it persons don't think a single saucer hull can't do anything
persons forget to look more closer to the phaser beam cannons don't only shoot forward they got emitters pointing to the back so it can also shoot the rear
then there is the torpedo tube launcher rack you got 2 tubes facing forward and 2 facing the back
and then as for back up or as a last resort you have the 6 phaser bank ports 3 on the top and 3 on the bottom you tie both twin emitters together
you make not only a wilder beam but you make a more powerful solid beam and just because its only one beam don't mean it won't be able to do more damage
because i feel it will and if the beam don't have to move but stay fixed then it becomes even more powerful because you can channel even more energy power to it as well
so all in all a lot of persons forget a lot and misjudge this ship class a lot that is a lot of fire power for a small ship
@@keithrees4755 Yes! The Miranda class can kick a...if commander and crew ist 1rst class ;-) I love that ship it has some "second view" elegance and efficiency.
I’m convinced, the Miranda class variant that was the Reliant, is definitely a tactical “war” vessel.
Ahes even slightly better because more compactly sized and maneuvrable than a constitution heavy cruiser.
I mean, she was a big ship for the time... comparable in size and armament to the Constitution. And like the video says, she was built more along the lines of a combat ship. I've always loved all the TOS movie designs, including the Miranda. Reliant was a great ship.
I always assumed Miranda's were newer and maybe the replacement for the constitution. Kirk's enterprise was old in the wrath of Kahn. And since they were still in use during the dominion war there must have been some quality that made them worth keeping. Presumably they were refitted and upgraded.
The Excelsior is the replacement ship. Anyways, the reason why the Feds were using Miranda-classes is pretty much the same reason they use the Oberths; they're cheap and simple to build. Even in TNG times, most ships were ones used in the 2280s because actually building Galaxy and Ambassadors consumed a lot of time, technical know-how, and resources, i.e. expensive. Wolf 359 made building state of the art ships even more expensive when 40 of them blew up all at once, which necessitated the design philosophy of the Franken Fleet in the interim. During this time, the Feds couldn't really field a full scale navy for about ten years. By the time the Dominion War happens, attrition dictated that any ships, even old ones had to fill in the gaps in their fleets, which made them the poor bloody infantry regardless of how retrofitted they were.
@@dragonknightleader1 Excelsior wasn't seen in Wrath of Khan, though. And with the budget cuts that the US military was doing in the 1980s, it would have been reasonable to assume that the Reliant was a more economical alternative to the Constitution-class.
@@RokkitGrrl Budget cuts in the 80s? In the US? What are you talking about? In what service branch? We had a massive buildup...
5:18 This exactly sums up my interpretation. The USS Reliant is a warship. The Miranda class itself is a workhorse with many variants.
I always thought the Reliant's design was more efficient and menacing than the Enterprise. Your point about it being the one to carry out the Genesis mission rather than any other class is excellent- it's a bruiser and should be able to deal with most threats it could possibly encounter (not counting V'Ger and Space Whales!😂) It certainly has better arcs of fire than the Big E and seemed to be able to handle similar damage, and if Khan had concentrated all fire on the spindly junction between the saucer and the rest of the ship- cue Pvt.Hudson from Aliens. But noooo, mega brain had to toy with Kirk...
_"if Khan had concentrated all fire on the spindly junction between the saucer and the rest of the ship"_
The Enterprise is literally designed to separate at that point.
@@Idazmi7 It's also most likely heavy armored as well. Star fleet wouldn't make a ship with such a flimsy neck if it was such a very vulnerable part. We never hear in any story anyone targeting the neck.
@@wendigos_eat_people7177
Actually, we see a hit to the neck in _The Wrath of Khan,_ since the torpedo bay is there, too. My point is that it's a glorified docking mechanism. If you *_did_* shoot the neck, it would just separate into two fully-functional ships, each with it's own bridge.
You're right, too, of course - I was just clarifying.
@@Idazmi7 I agree.
Also it would be good to see a Constitution or successor class detach from its stardrive section, specifically to reattach to another, differently specced one.
from the blueprints i got back in the 80's the Reliant was listed as Miranda class Heavy Frigate, where as the Enterprise was listed as a Heavy Cruiser. they still follow current naval listings for vessel purpose. looking up current naval vessel types helps in this particular discussion.
_Avenger_ class Heavy Frigate
Lovely work!
I do want to point out the TNG era variants of the Miranda-class were over a century old by that point. They probably had to refit the major workhorse of the old fleet due to resource management. It is, after all, build on the components of a heavy cruiser, which means it ought to have a variability and ease of modularity.
In other news: have you considered doing some work with the ships of the ExForce series? The Flying Dutchman should be an easy one to play with, especially since you can reuse large elements of it between the four variations and produce 4 videos about its life with the logistics of only 2 videos, much like how two-parter episodes from Trek cost less than two 1-part episodes.
Love how he took my comment about aft Torpedos and emphasized the “aft” bit lol
Also yeah absolutely agree that the reliant configuration is very combat heavy along with the configuration we see the Saratoga as which sacrifices the rollbar for 2 absolutely huge phaser cannons on each side. And yeah there actually is another Miranda configuration the Soyuz class which lacks a rollbar and has a extended rear end filled with sensors and is probably a dedicated research varient showing us it can probably be used for a variety of missions.
Soyuz class, wasn't that Captain Bateman's ship from the past in TNG? Also from the book Ship Of The Lin.
I imagine that the Miranda class is a "multipurpose frigate" of sorts. With the Reliant herself being an "Avenger class" configuration with boosted weaponry over the standard Miranda. I think the on screen evidence supports this decently well considering how many variations we see the class take. It seems like the kit the Reliant was equipped with was designed for enhanced combat capabilities, which would make it a good vessel for testing Genesis with.
And who knows when the original USS Miranda actually entered service? Maybe it was designed to be a lighter "all purpose" utility ship to supplement the Constitution for odd jobs unbefitting one of Starfleets' princesses.
And there's also two very long gray cutouts in the hull where the shuttle bays are, I've always imagined they are indicating that the shuttle/cargo bays are massive. Considering everything we've seen the class do I think that is supposed to be the intention with those.
The Miranda is more like a defiant, compact. It has a large phaser array up top as well as a torpedo tube forward and back up top unobstructed. Definitely a warship.
Oh how much I would love to see a Miranda under Kirks and Spocks command going against Darth Vader!
Any ship that would be used as a front line combatant in time of war, is a warship. As such, most Federation Starships are indeed warships. It's just that they are not all dedicated warships, like the Defiant, and are designed for other missions, such a exploration, much like Coast Guard cutters.
This. Couldn't agree more.
From what I have seen in the comments thus far everyone is on point about the Miranda class vessel. However I feel the Miranda was more of a hvy diplomatic response vessel. As seen in the Stra Trek2 movie it was stated as a research vessel. Even then it feels like it's size and weapon package it's meant to go into harsh conflict areas to talk it out but be able to resolve the conflict quickly and call for reinforcement if needed.
@@user-eu8ki5is3r Perhaps it was a Klingon diplomatic response vessel.
Designed during the height of the Klingon cold war, under-slung nacelles for added agility including at warp, phase cannons, defensive beam turrets and 4 torpedoes.
Sounds like a warship to me, or as politicians might say, 'a General-Purpose Light Cruiser'.
More compact but, more voluminous than a Constitution Class, presumably in it's time a fearsome opponent.
Edit: Your composition, effects and editing are coming on leaps and bounds, great work and well presented ideas.
I always thought the main reason why the Miranda class and its variations stuck around for so long is because of their sheer versatility. Like the K'tinga the design was incredibly robust and adaptable unlike say the Constitution class. Plus unlike the constitution the Miranda's didnt have a ship to replace it until later but by that time became a major workhorse long outlasting most other classes of ship.
The Miranda class, in-lore, is the Good Enough ship. It's a cheaper ship than the Constitution, but for the purposes of patrol and surveying near a starbase, it did the jobs it was assigned well enough. Until the 2340s when serious warp nacelle redesigns occurred, there wasn't much need to improve technology when the Feds no longer had powerful empires to defend against, which is how old ships like the Miranda, Oberth, and the Constellation were still used.
I think in all honesty if they have phasers ,photon torpedoes, quantum torpedoes and shields and can fight Romuluns ,Klingons etc etc they are actually warships no matter what actors ,writers ,producers etc etc say .
If it can dish out damage and take damage and fight enemies , potential advesaries and is part of a fleet it is a warship .
100% agree. In fact, with as many warmongering and conquistador alien species we've seen in the galaxy, Starfleet's assertion that it's "not a military" starts to come off as criminally irresponsible. If they aren't a military, then they need to make one and stop sending supposed civilians in to war zones.
Frankly, it actually seemed much more optimistic to me for it to be a military, but with a fleet doctrine that emphasizes conflict de-escalation, defense, and scientific discovery over other concerns. And this is how the TOS/TMP era Starfleet seemed to operate. The Constitution-class routinely humbled the warships of species that prided themselves on being warriors. It was the embodiment of "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."
This is further evidenced by the fact that Starfleet won a war against the Cardassians, a highly militaristic society in the TNG era.
Exactly.
So, by that logic, wouldn't every able person classify as a soldier then?
@@silkwesir1444
_"So, by that logic, wouldn't every able person classify as a soldier then?"_
Only when they are uniformed personnel who are given weapons and missions by the state. Like Starfleet is.
I put the Reliant-type as a Battlecruiser variant of the Miranda-Class. The Soyuz-subclass is that research version you mention. And the Base Miranda is a workhorse light cruiser.
That "Rollbar" is everything that makes this instantly a warship.
As to the Miranda being a basic transport, you will note the two depressions on the aft dorsal space on either side of the impulse drive and directly above each shuttle bay. In my own 3d explorations, I have found these depressions fit the standard cargo cylinders found in the TOS Tech Manuall. Two such cargo cylinders fit there, one in each depression, side-by-side rather well.
I have since speculated that the original design of the Miranda was a tug that could carry twice the volume of the tug found in the TOS Tech Manual. (I forget its name.)
Included in this design would be a large volume for csrgo shuttle craft and a high volume of cargo transporter bandwidth.
In order to make her be more versatile than previous tugs, modularity was paramount, meaning being able to route power, data and other resources to wherever is needed within the ship, et al.
This modularity, at first used to make it a superior and versitile tug, lent itself to making it a versitile science and/or war ship. Thus, when austerity ever rearrd its head, mirandas would come to the rescue as a cheaper swiss-army-knife of a vessel: not nearly as good as a dedicated set of tools, but good enough to get the job done.
Edit: clarity and type-os
I was giving this more thought, for no particular reason.
The fan trek show Star Trek Now Voyages had, IMHO, an excellent rendition of a TOS era Miranda-like vessel in their episode, "Blood and Fire." The ship was named the Copernicus and it's clearly a kitbash of the original Enterprise. An exceedingly well done kitbash, on the level of the original Miranda, but a kitbash none the less. Regardless, its such a lovely and plausible ship that in my own head cannon, it's a real Star Fleet vessel of the TOS era.
On Starfleet Museum website, the Capella class is very Miranda-like. Capella was a tiny transport and utility vessel, slightly smaller than the Oberth class, indeed, very much giving off an Oberth vibe but with an early-TOS design style. I would be very much surprised if, were she a cannon design, she would be the precursor to the Oberth class. IE, that Oberth would basically be a Capella with 2270s tech.
These two ships plus my previous speculation, above, make me wonder.....
Capella, or something like her, comes along and demonstrates the usefulness of modularity. Basically, you have a core vessel with power plant, warp engine, impulse engine, overbuilt life support and (relatively) heavy interconnects for modules. On the websites' lore, they weren't sure whether they wanted her undersling or oversling the warp engines, so they decided to make it so they could do either, inventing a standardized interconnect so that anything could attach and interface with whatever resources it needed. This includes warp nacelles, active or passive sensor pods, weapon pods --phaser canons or torpedo launcher-- cargo capsules, medical capsules, shuttle bays, repair facilities, etc. And this successful compromise in favor of universal utility sets a president for future such craft.
However, the Capella probably didn't last long as cargo tug after 2245, with the introduction of the Constitution class and her sibling. It seems clear from the TOS Technical Manual there were several vessels in use that were cobbled together using building blocks from the Constitution class. This strongly suggests the Constitution class introduced capabilities hard to duplicate with earlier hardware. Suggesting that the Ptolemy class tug, from the TOS:TM, was an effort to use Constitution hardware to produce a tug capable of supplying new logistical demands older, more thought-out designs couldn't match.
However, I suggest the Ptolemy class probably couldn't haul much more than the Capella, but she could haul it faster and more economically. But the Federation is growing quickly and Star Fleet would understand vessels like Ptolemy are a stop-gap solution for the 2250s, not something that could be relied on past the 2260s. Thus, they would begin designing a larger, Capella-like design for they expected in the 2270s. And so, the class of ships Copernicus belongs to (maybe its "Miranda," maybe it's not) is where they start, modifying the class into an extremely modular, extremely robust, deliberately upgradable and exceptionally modifiable spaceframe. And this is the Miranda class we see in the TMP era.
Interestingly enough, this design aesthetic would *precede* that of the Constitution refits, like the Enterprise. In this head cannon, the Miranda as seen on screen comes first and the Constitution refits follow suit. I rather like this symmetry: the class Copernicus belongs to would be a modification of Constitution hardware; the Miranda is then an outgrowth and modification of the Copernicus' class of sister-ships; and then the Constitution refit would be an retrofit of Miranda hardware.
Starfleet's design philosophy for much of its history strikes me as similar to that of trans-oceanic merchant vessels in the age of sail. While a gillion is a transport, not a ship-of-the-line, the distinction is moot because of all the firepower gallions normally had. Starfleet may not call their vessels warships but they certainly build them like warships.
I know it as a frigate. A ship designed to act as a support vessel for a task force. Means there....isn't a fully a definition for it. The Miranda is the greatest "bucket" of all time.
I think of her as a Destroyer Leader.
It's definitely a warship just because it has those mega phasers and four torpedo tubes that no other ship has, and is more compact and maneuverable.
Also I believe in TNG there was a variation that instead of the four torpedo bays there was another very large lancer looking cannon?
But I'm sure the Dederation would call it a heavy "defense" cruiser instead of a warship, just like when the US changed the War Department to the Department of Defense.
;)
It's all about keeping the peace, but that still takes weapons.
Nah tos federation would have been honest it’s TNG era federation that talks that way
The Soyuz class in tng, yea.
@@Eshanas more a lost era ship that was outdated by tng
Your analysis have confirmed my thoughts that the Reliant is a combat version of the Miranda class. The pulse cannons are what cinched it. The regular starships don't have it.
The Miranda Class Cruiser is a multi class hull that can be used for any role depending on its fit. The Reliant was choose cause of its sensors and the Photon torpedo launcher design would allow the launch of Gensis without too much moding.
The manual for Star Trek Starfleet Academy stated the Miranda’s shields are as good as the Constitution class, but can’t take the hits when the shields are down. I always had to allocate more power to my shields during slug feats.
Great game.
I saw the Miranda class listed as a fast frigate in a book once. The MDPC modules are the indicator of that. Tactically, she would make a superior warship due to presenting minimal cross section to an opponent; a design cue used successfully by many Klingon and Romulan warships.
I always figured it as the Federation version of a Bird of Prey, but more modular. I would assume that compared to a Constitution class Heavy Cruiser (likely), it would have far less torpedo storage (probably all stored in the torpedo pod) and weaker saucer mounted phasers due to a much smaller warp core. The phaser cannons might be as powerful or more powerful than on a Constitution, but that's just a guess as we saw phasers from both the Enterprise and Reliant do the exact same thing against non-shielded Starships.
The Miranda is likely not provisioned for long distance exploration or as self-sufficient as a Constitution or possibly even an Oberth so it probably spent most of it's time in Federation space.
At least that's what I figured. I'm also not sure if the Excelsior would be considered a Battleship, Battlecruiser, or just the next in line of Heavy Cruisers.
Going by what has been approved by Paramount, and what we use for game design, the Miranda class was originally designed as a warship. But because of its construction it is able to fulfill multiple roles. They are classified as a Cruiser for ship classifications, with the Constitution being a Heavy Cruiser.
Technically speaking, didn't they address the Defiant ship type in Deep Space Nine with the line said by Benjamin, who said the ship was classified as an ESCORT.
Hence why the Defiant basically had no luxurious features. Because the crew could use the escorting federation ship.
Please keep in mind that the Reliant pounding it handed to the Enterprise in the first encounter in the Wrath of Kahn was thanks to Kirk no putting up the Enterprise shields so basically she was denlfensless.
The Escort term is a legal fig leaf the Feds say to keep up the lie that they totes don't build warships. Back in TOS days, they were less politically correct.
Defiant was also basically a massive set of pulse phasers with a small starship built around them. It's main pulse phasers were supposed to have more punch than the main phaser arrays of the Galaxy class or the monster sized belly disruptors of the Negh'var, they were basically equivalent to starbase phasers or the massively overpowered phasers on the Soverign class (Enterprise-E). That was why the Defiant could obliterate Galors and Keldons in one burst, and Cardassian warships were notoriously resilient to battle damage, even if they lacked the firepower of Starfleet or Klingon ships.
Well done. Beautiful. Gripping... and your voice work was on point.
The Miranda is to the Constitution as the Nebula class is to the Galaxy class. More compact but equal or larger in size.
I always thought of the Miranda as something of a successor or at least a suplimental design to the Constitution class sharing the main hull configuration but with a more compact and durable engineering section. In TWOK movie Kahn actually mentions how similar the Reliant is to the Enterprise so its likely a iterative design kind of like the Nebula class in TNG sharing some componentry with its predecessor. That said the exceptional long service life of the Miranda types proved their general worth.
As a little kid and huge nerd for Naval history, my favorite historical warship was the USS Saratoga (because my uncle served aboard her in WW2), when I saw Star Trek IV and that Saratoga made into one of the movies as a sistership to the extremely bad@$$ and cool looking Reliant, I remember being so exicted I could hardly contain myself. I spent the entire movie on the edge of my seat hoping she didn't get destroyed. lol
I figure the Mirandas are all built on a very flexible hull design that allows it to be configured for a number of roles, not unlike what the modern Littoral Combat Ships were supposed to be.
For those unfamiliar with Littoral Combat Ships (LCS for short), one of their intended features was to have "Mission Modules" that could be quickly and easily swapped out at any half-decent port in a matter of hours to quickly switch between surface, anti-sub, anti-mine, and special operations roles. Due to a multitude of issues, it ended up taking days for a swap and is now a rare occurrence (that part kind of reminds me of the Galaxy-class saucer separation ending up a rare occurrence).
I suspect Mirandas were built around the modularity concept. Since they always end up as background ships we never do learn how quickly or how often they're reconfigured, but the base idea is still the same I think.
IIRC, the Miranda with the rollbar is the standard config. There's also a rollbar with extra engines, one with a sensor pod on top, then two without the bar. One of those without is vanilla, the 5th version has sensors on the sides. Though not technically classified as one, I do believe that with the amount of weapons on such a small frame, it could be used as an escort or light cruiser. Many of the games dub it as a "light cruiser". So yes, the Reliant would have been.
However by TNG the Miranda class had been in service for almost 80 years old. So most would be reserved for supply/rearline duty til the Dominion war. Starfleet would have upgraded them with modern components, so while it would be decent, it wouldn't be as effective as the modern ships.
I remember watching Wrath of Khan for the first time at 11 years old and remarked to my father "For a scientific spaceship, the Reliant is quite armed" and he answered "Come to think of it, you're right! It carries a lot of weapons !"
It's a freaking battleship in my opinion. Look at those phaser cannons!
@@marcd2936 Sorry for the long-delayed reply but not only the phaser cannons but the fact it has aft torpedoes (Plus the phaser cannons that can shoot on the aft direction). If it's not a battleship, I don't know what is this !
@@CallsignRedKale Agreed!
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Miranda class were designed to be modular with the ability to fit a variety of different payloads on that rollbar section hench the many different variants that are seen much like the later 24th century Nebula class with its configurable pod.
On TNG, we saw the USS Pheonix with the large sensor pad on the rollback and the USS Sutherland with the large weapons module on the rollback. The Nova class USS Titan from Star Trek Lower Decks also had a large weapons module on the same rollback configuration.
I have always seen both the Miranda Class and the Nebula Class starships as Warships. They just look like they are built for battle over the Enterprise type ships.
It also helps that federation ships are beasts even when not designed specifically for battle
Great breakdown, lots to think about!
I really enjoy your videos, thank you for making them.
I love the Miranda class, it's one of my favourites designs, if not my favourite, in the entirety of Star Trek and I am always happy to see videos about her, exploring and expanding on it. I always thought of it as a multirole adaptable and modular design, able to do most of the work needed in Starfleet, with a sound design, built to last and whitstand many scenarios. A proud utilitarian workhorse, capable of punching above it's weight if needed.
I'm a big fan of Napoleonic era naval fiction. The Miranda class has always reminded me of the mainstay of the line of battle, the "74" - a sturdy warship which had a total of 74 guns. I kind of see the Constitution as more of a frigate (being outmoded by STII/III with the Excelsior class intended to replace her) able to get to crisis situations quickly to hold the line, with the Mirandas coming up with the firepower/damage-absorbence capability to back them up, albeit a little slower.
For the 23rd century I imagined that it was meant to be a defensive platform. Just not an independent steamer. Meant to operate in squadrons for reconnaissance in arms, patrolling borders, or fighting in border skirmishes.
Using the Reliant for science and survey was the smart thing strategically as she would easily hold her own against rogues like Commander Kruge in scouts like the Bird of Prey. We saw the disappointment the Grissom was in the same scenario, but clearly tensions were so high that Grissom would cause less controversy. If another Miranda, Connie or other mainline Starfleet vessel was present, the Klingons could interpret hostility. At least that was the hope…
But Starfleet’s “no warship” mantra was a deception. In WWI and prelude to WWII, Nations skirted treaties by redefining a hull’s purpose. The Federation went to greater lengths but the Klingons and Romulans would just install one “science lab” on a dedicated warship and call it a day.
The tech manual you referred to is actually spot on and for the longest time was regarded as canon. Avenger appears to be a sub class of the Miranda hull.
That being said, even in WWII, any commercial hull could be made into a warship. Such was the case with the Dominion War.
The Q ships of World War One that were armed decoys that lured German U Boats to the surface were ex merchant ships.
The escort carriers of World War 2 were built on merchant ship hulls.
If I ever had my wish, it would be a short series solely rooted in the war against the Klingons (none of this Kelvin timeline bs). Starfleet is currently seen on a losing streak and we get an underdog crew story based onboard a Miranda class vessel. Firmly centered around the look and feel of the TWOK, we'd get a claws-out use and configuration of the ship. I know we've had some wars featured in Berman's Trek throughout the years but usually not in a continuous fashion. It would be nice to pursue a more detailed and condensed writing format. But also one that's a love letter to the fans of the original series and done with the care and respect that it deserves.
Pure fantasy though, as I don't think we'll ever see someone in charge of production who gives a damn about the legacy again. 😥
To quote Harve Bennett, "an older vessel of the Enterprise-class." Lee Cole and Joe Jennings took it a step further by making it even more visually distinct from the Enterprise. I always thought Harve's instructions meant, "create an older Constitution-class ship," complete with torpedoes and phasers erupting from the same places as the TOS Enterprise. That being said, the intention was to always to make the Reliant more than a match for Enterprise if a few things broke Khan's way. 1.) Reliant may have tried to punch through Enterprise's shields at short range (see how close they re?) to still cripple the main reactors even if the shields went up (plus Khan still had the standard phaser banks to back up the cannons). 2.) Count on a good-hearted Kirk to not raise his shields and/or fire at the older Reliant at a distance (see what the refit Enterprise did with one photon torpedo to an asteroid in TMP) 3.) Flat out lie and send a text message about the as-yet uninvented Chambers Coil making ship-to-ship comms not work. But yes, at long distance - like most Star Trek onscreen battles - Enterprise would smoke Reliant.
Khan benefitted from all three, him having main power versus Enterprise only having partial main power afterwards at Regula I, and the deus ex machina of twists with a nearby nebula to even out the battle in favor of the experienced fighter. So, what do I think of Reliant?
The Miranda-class is a more *modular* design than the Connie, capable of many different types of missions with swapout modules. The fact that there would be no dramatic tension with Khan and his people hijacking a runabout means that at least, Reliant as an individual vessel may have been refitted like Enterprise to need something like the big cannons to be a match. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Miranda-class as a whole is equal to the Constitution.
Fantastic video about one of my favorite ships! I am a supporter of the channel and I do think you should use sponsors. It will strengthen you art and your business model! Good luck 🍀
Remember the most important piece of Star Trek weapons. It's not how many guns it has, it's how you power them. Phasers are, as per The Motion Picture, always tied to the power output of the warp core. That's why in TMP, they had to override Kirk's phaser order with a torpedo shot. Warp Plasma, is of course, just energized electro-plasma. Nothing special. The additional phaser emitters on the corners of the roll bar are getting no more special power treatment than the ones embedded in the main hull. What's more likely, is that the positioning is strictly for field of fire coverage. The firing arcs of those emitters giver full aft up and down coverage, and full dorsal front coverage with partial ventral front coverage. That's a good firing arc and the prominance also screams 'come at me, bro!'.
Meanwhile, with Torpedoes, the base design doesn't even have a visible launcher. Placing a bidirectional twin-launcher up on the 'roll bar' definitely makes sense as it gives the launcher a good field of fire with minimal obstruction. As an aside, it also makes the launcher 'safer' by keeping it and any armed torpedoes it may have ready to fire suspended away from the hull. (Unarmed torpedoes can't hurt you, they have no antimatter in them). As shown in 'The Wrath of Khan', hitting the launcher just blew it up, but that didn't result in blowing a hole through the ship.
I would say the features are clearly an uparmored afterthought for a more 'secure' Miranda design. A proper warship design would pull all weapons systems into the hull to protect them from damage more effectively, and would boast more power from the warp core.
Overall, Reliant is no more a warship than a Humvee with a fifty call turret stuck on top of it is an APC or Tank. It certainly has TEETH, but any real warship will make quick work of it.
Miranda Class Designers: "Wait, this is a gun?" (pulls the trigger and is surprised when everyone in front of them explodes)
The Battle damage on the opposite side of the enterprise finally explained during the reliant attack. The phaser beams from the reliant cut thru to the other side.
Back as a child watching Wrath of Kahn, I assumed the Reliant to be a stronger ship for some reason, even choosing it in the old FASA Star Trek Combat Simulator over other ships. Okay, I was a kid. But, I automatically looked at the weapons array and though stronger ship simply because of the large mounted phasers and dedicated torpedo pod. However, Captain Terrel's crew seamed not so combat trained, but more over, a scientific based type crew. However, videos like these bring up some really interesting points from both view points. Excellent vid!
The Reliant is a warship but that doesn't mean all Miranda class cruisers are, in the same way that the Titanic was a cruise ship but during the war one of its sister ships was refitted for medical and evacuation, which transformed it from a cruise ship into a hospital ship and became a military medical facility.
And as large as that class of cruise ship was, you could have just as easily put a bunch of cannons on its deck and turned it into a battleship.
It's all about how a ship is outfitted and this one is outfitted with extra cannons that other ships don't have and extra photon torpedo tubes so it is definitely outfitted as a warship for maximum defense if needed.
These probably are what would be patrolling the neutral zone during this era and obviously The Genesis project being so critical and top-secret it makes sense that a smaller maneuverable ship that can protect itself in case it has to, would be logical.
A similar craft to the Reliant was the Lantree, a Soyuz Class vessel. It seems Starfleet designated the vessel type based on the final configuration. Since we know scientific probes launch from torpedo tubes, a Miranda Class vessel could serve scientific roles. However, the phaser cannons on the edge of the upper pylons suggest greater power for combat operations since the Reliant has six phaser banks already (three pairs on each side of the saucer section, similar to the Enterprise).
I see the Miranda-class w/o the weapons rollbar design to be a light cruiser. With the added weaponry, a heavy destroyer and/or frigate.
Yeah when you strap on freaking phaser cannons you are no longer a "light cruiser".
My personal head canon is that Miranda, Soyuz class and langtree represent Miranda as a modular cruiser. A class of ship designed by starfleet to be relatively easy to build and configure for different purposes. I believe that it was developed during TOS. That the class was supposed to be a partner ship to the Excelsior class. But Excelsior was delayed. That the Refit Enterprise was designed using the Miranda class technologies as a stop gap but this meant that the refit was compromised in its tactical design.
I'm used to the Star Trek Starfleet Command games where each ship had multiple classes built for battle and Miranda class has one of the most heavily armed versions that could kill heavy cruisers.
@03:45 Actually that description of the _Reliant_ as being an "old bucket" was in reference to its being one of the older Constitution class, like the TOS _Enterprise_ In the novel ships like the _Reliant_ were referred to as Galaxy class calling them Miranda was one of those retcons that does away with everything that's written in a book. Khan was given (well stole) a ship similar to the old _Enterprise_ to explain how someone from 20th century Earth, even if he was a genetically augmented super-genius, could operate a ship with technology 220 years beyond him.
The original blueprints for the Avenger Class sets her as a Heavy Frigate. The backbone of most battle fleets in most navies. She was more compact but the same internal volume but better armed the the NNC-1701 refit, classed as a cruiser class. I think the Reliant was configured as a warship or a ship that could easily look after herself.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and form provided to you on this subject matter on the Miranda class starship designs, And form my understanding is that the Miranda class is considered a Heavy Frigate and then there other designs of the same framework that are not depending on their service roles and assignments and so forth, And I myself have the Ships of the Star Fleet-Volume One/Revised as were she is referred to as the Avenger Class Heavy Frigate,And yes the Reliant is definitely more of a a War ship considering that she has greater fire power than the Enterprise constitution class Heavy Cruiser starship's indeed!.
without a doubt when the Miranda is configured with a row bar torpedo forward/aft launcher and a specialized forward/aft phaser, it's a warship. It's compact so it won't snap apart like the Constitution neck would if the enemy chose to aim precisely. Plus, it's more maneuverable since it is compact like the Defiant.
So I'm just going to pitch this in seeing this because 23rd century ships were looked differently than how they are in the 24th century.
Miranda Class in the 23rd century was classified as a Cruiser and later turned Frigate during the 24th century as starship designs advanced.
Not all Starfleet ships had rear torpedo launchers, but compared to the Constitution Class, neither the original design or refit had a rear launcher, but was still classified as a Heavy Cruiser for the Federation.
During the TMP Era of ship designs (Mid/Late 23rd Century) all federation ships could draw power from Warp Power to the phasers, as noticed in Star Trek The Motion Picture scene when Decker explains to Kirk why his order to fire phasers were disobeyed.
The Miranda class had quite a few variants, the Landry was a more supply ship variant while the Reliant was a more standard variant. There was also the Saratoga as seen in Episode 1 Season 1 of ST-DS9, and the Bozeman in ST-TNG Episode 18 Season 5.
Also the comment on the Botanical Garden, the early 23rd century Constitution had an Arboretum, nobody is surprised on the garden. The ship had the room for the Garden, and the ship had the room for it when they redesigned the ship and refitted it during the Mid-Late 23rd Century.
23rd Century Federation ships were all heavily armed and designed differently, but they still had to have room for scientific exploration. None of them were warships, but yet they all were built for war if say the Klingons or the Romulans during that era ever decided to go to war with the Federation, and the relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire was at best, always on thin ice. And of course everyone expected the Klingons to go to war with the Federation.
Great video.
I would LOVE to see a collaboration between Drach, Venom geek, and resurrected starship. It would be so cool to see how individual beta cannon could make an interesting new story.
Starfleet has four types of ships; the Ships of the Line, kinda big jack of all trades to show the flag and explore. The utility ships, modular, fitted to be specialized in a given purpose with compatible gear and modules that can be changed. Warships (apocrypha had battleships in Starfleet ranks with typically more naceelles or more secondary hulls and bigger saucers to bare a lot of weapons)
and science vessels, small, specialized in science duties and usually quite slow and ill equipped for combat. Warships are not typical of Starfleet and kept in storage until needed or commissioned or refited as needed from other hulls.
There is another type of ship we see in DS9, colony transport ships that are huge and don't seem armed, the kind of ship you need for a planetary evac.
The ST Continuum mod for Homeworld Remastered features upgrades for the Miranda class like the one for the Nebula. You can chose between a photon torp launcher like the Reliant has, double bigger phaser canons or a sensor array like the Soyouz class USS Bozemann. Without upgrade, they look like the USS Lantree. Older ships are typically used as utulity, supply, transports secondary vessels in all navies, the same goes with Starfleet.
I see the Miranda-class as a Destroyer. Perfect for escorting freighters or science ships like the Oberth-class through areas of heightened pirate activity, or where they might run afoul of a bird of prey. Duties that require more muscle than a picket boat. The rank and file of the fleet. There's a good reason it served as long as it did, it did the job perfectly.
The Miranda really was a special class of ship, I cant think of any Starfleet vessel that even came close to the pure raw versatility of this class, while still remaining a viable mass producible class of ship. Maybe the Nebula?
While I don't personally call it a warship its certainly more heavily armed than the Constitution class, we don't really know how it compares warp speed wise but Id imagine its roughly equal in general speeds. The smaller profile likely means its more maneuverable at impulse if not at least a harder target to hit. It almost feels like the Miranda was meant to replace the constitution class ships even more than the excelsior class. It literally can do anything a connie can do and the hull can be easily adapted to create dedicated subclasses likely with minimal refit/construction time.
Its just a great class of ship even in the late TNG era.
Just like the similar Nebula class can be configured as a "normal" starship" or a (disguised) warship with the additional weapons attachments, the Reliant was the "Warship" variant
I feel like you've touched on to some good stuff here. I have believed for some time that the Miranda was not only a warship, but a heavy warship and not a frigate or destroyer type ship to the Connie's 'Heavy Cruiser' bit. Whether the Miranda was designed before or after the 'refit' Connie class, I think it's a pretty good guess the Miranda was supposed to replace the Connie or at least part of the Connie's mission.
If you look at the TOS, you can see that the Connie had basically 3 mission types. 1) Move cargo and personnel from Starbase to Starbase. 2) Patrol Federation boarders with hostile nations. 3) Patrol Federation boarders with no nations there and explore those regions of space.
I like to think the Miranda Class was developed to fulfill one of those missions, ie patrol Federation boarders with hostile nations and maybe a light version of cargo/personnel, and leave the exploration and large cargo to another ship class. Which, I think, the Constellation class covers really well. The over all strategy got a little gummed up when they decided to go for the refit Connie, but considering the large amount of Miranda's in TNG, even a decent amount of Constellations, I think this is the route Starfleet was going for.
One thing about the Reliant's setup. They might have wanted to keep the Genesis torpedo separate from the regular Photon torpedoes and using a configuration that has added and isolated torpedo tubes was a way to do that while still allowing Reliant to have a good torpedo supply for a fight.
Starfleet is a military organization. It may be downplayed as the primary mission is exploration, but if it wasn't a military/paramilitary arm, there would be no need for the military rank structure and chain of command as it is depicted in every star trek series. That said, every ship in starfleet (Defiant class excluded) is a multi-role vessel, with different defensive capabilities depending on possible threats. A warship is purpose built from inception to be a vessel of war, with any other potential role coming second.
I'd say that the Reliant is the tactical variant of the Miranda class multi-role light cruiser. That's a pretty good way to say it using Starfleet wording.
I love the idea of different mission pods like a nebula class.
Makes logical sense to me it could be configured as a science ship or a warship.
I also assumed the transport variant was just an old Miranda being given grunt work rather than retired
The video does point to a possible multi-role modular cruiser. Given the convincing statement of the “roll bar” being interchangeable, the class is likely similar to the USN LCS. And as pointed out in the video, the class of ship was relegated to minor support vessels later in life, likely because it was too old, obsolete, or not meeting original expectations (like the USN LCS). But ships hull is expensive and don’t want to waste a modular design when you can repurpose missions.
the older book that came out after the movies that show us cross section shows us that this ship has sever deck for research and Science as will as it listing it has having a good weapons complement she was not built for combat but as you said it was during the cold war era with Klingons so its a point where there adding more weapons to ship that may or may not have hostel combat encounters
Given the tactical upgrades of the Reliant, and the hint at being used as a supply ship perhaps its a beefy merchant marine type vessel. Its primary mission might not be fighting, but, it can patrol a root while bringing valuable cargo through dangerous territory.
I would classify it as a multi-role specialization frigate. It can be configured to fit any mission perimeters, and conditions anticipated by those in charge of deciding the appropriate kit required during each refit. With that understanding, I would posit that it is indeed a warship, but no more or less so than it is a cargo vessel or exploration cruiser, it all comes down to its assigned configuration at any given period.
All the additional weapons and weapon arcs the Miranda has is because it's actually handicapped in 2 areas 1.) maximum speed and warp maneuverability and 2.) sensor range at high speed. All things equal, a Constitution/Enterprise class (or comparable Klingon design) would run circles around the Miranda, firing phasers and torpedoes from those forward arcs. Miranda would need those extra weapons and firing arcs to have a chance against faster targets moving in and out of range.
The problem is that once the warp drive is damaged or offline, the phasers will be cut off on both ship types.
Reliant is definitely a warship. Foward and aft photon torpedo launchers. Foward and aft mega phasers that get power directly from the warp engines. If I were going into battle and had a choice between Enterprise or Reliant, I'm picking the Reliant.
I always thought of the Miranda class as the Federation version of Klingon battle cruiser.
I'd argue that the name Miranda class implies a more peaceful design of ship when Starfleet were originally designing it with the rollbar being a later addition to help upgun the class at a time of growing hostility. I think part of the reason for its longevity as a class is down to three main features that I would argue make it Starfleet's best design of starship.
First is the high internal volume you mentioned. This is a main reason it lasted into the TNG era. It allows for stripped down variants to be used as cargo ships but also with higher amounts of automation allowing for smaller crew requirements, it allows for the crew's family to be with them, a key shift in Starfleet's mantra by that era.
Second is the adaptability allowing for the different variants we see on screen. We see Starfleet has a lot of these ships on screen and that would make sense to mass produce a reliable spaceframe that can then be easily modified to suit different mission parameters. Even if that mission profile changes, it is still well equipped enough to deal. For instance if a cargo variant is attacked it still has 6 dual phaser turrets to defend itself with.
Last is survivability. I know some people treat this ship as a joke because of all the ones destroyed on screen but consider this: all the anti-borg ships have one thing in common, the flat profile. Sure at Wolf 359 the Saratoga doesn't do great but an Excelsior class gets take on with one hit. After upgrades, an Excellsior can go toe to toe with a Defiant class. Likewise at the battle of sector 001 there is a Miranda class still in the fight when the Enterprise arrives. Steamrunners, Akiras and even the Defiant have been taken out but that Miranda is still going. I'm not saying they are stronger ships than those other classes but nor are they a joke. In the Dominion war they are used en masse because by then they require a very small crew. That allows for Starfleet to spread its manpower out far better. Memory Alpha has the crew of a Miranda class at 24-36 people. Compare that to a Galaxy class requiring 1000-6000.
Take the minimum needed for one Galaxy and put the maximum you need on Miranda classes and you can field 28 Starships. If you do the reverse and take the maximum crew of a Galaxy and use the minimum on Mirandas and that number of ships goes up to a whopping 230! Going up against the swarf tactics of the Jem Hadar and the fact that they can replace manpower losses much faster, the Miranda class really makes a lot of sense.
Depending on how much retconning you'd want to do, it could be argued that the Miranda is Starfleets answer the the Bird of Prey. A little more agile than the Constitution, a little better armored, and capable of laying out the Klingon. So while it would still maintain the mission of science and exploration, it is equipped to handle an ambush by a BoP. This also makes it appropriate as a patrol ship. And with the extra armor it would have more lasting power for either slugging it out or making an escape in the case that the shields fail.
If a fan were to retcon it that way...
The Miranda Class itself definitely is a very utilitarian styled ship, with the Reliant being fitted to being a pseudo warship; has the power to help counter, but potentially lacks the proper armor to withstand a prolonged assault. If the Reliant got into a fight with the Klingons, for example, it would be a tough victory given the K'tinga class were designed to counter the TOS Constitutions.
I can't wait for the breakdown of Wrath's battle.
Nice, would like to see the breakdown of Centaur class as a direct successor of Miranda.
The Reliant is a tactical configuration. But its roll bar phasers possibly being tapped into warp engines, that makes them hotter, but all the Constitution 2 class phasers were tied to the warp engines, with battery power backup added after TMP to keep them operational during warp engine failure. The Constitution produced more power, had stronger shields, more and presumably more powerful phasers, and was faster. Both ships being shielded, Constitution has upper hand, just look at ST6 as an example of the beating that class can take.
The Reliant's configuration, with good all around coverage and firepower, would enable it to counter smaller highly agile threats like birds of prey effectively. I know it's not what the IRL designers were thinking, and we never got to see it in action, but it seems well suited for engagements against adversaries that rely on mobility and numbers.
As a base design for an organisation like The Federation's Starfleet the Miranda class with its ability to serve with a variety of configurations is exceptional in that it has enough general use options that it can not be classed as a pure warship and as such the design is able to get past the political wrangling that would normally block the construction of a pure warship class.
The original Miranda class starship was designed to be modular. In other words, capable of being retrofitted for specific missions. The Reliant was a heavily armed starship as well as a research vessel with a stronger shield system than the Enterprise due to the fact that both the impulse and warp engines were directly connected and powering shields and weapons. However, that also made the Miranda Class much weaker than the Constitution Class, which had a full dedicated power system to its phaser array and another for its shield systems. Multiple direct hits to the Miranda's power generation system and all of its weapons will become inoperable
1 word to describe the Miranda class hull the same way as describing the Nebula class Hull model.
Modular. Which the TNG and TMP Producers intended both models to use since they actualy found both models to be quite cheaper when modifying both moels thx to the Miranda class model's lvl of moularity just like the Nebula class in TNG since that too is also a Modular starship model
When you get a look at it, the context of the time that the ship was built, which was the class was built during armed conflict between the federation in the Klingon empire so even a pure science ship, let’s say take Oberth class has weapons, but the Miranda Kalash was probably a hybrid half scientific, but also has that modular rollbar Kandy swapped out for extra scientific space or with weapons package so it’s probably a half and half
Considering in the movies, the Klingons see the Constitution as a 'federation battle cruiser' due to the firepower.
And the Federation seems to class it as a Exploratory Cruiser/ Starship/ Heavy Cruiser. Then the Connie is considered a main line combat vessel, as much as an explorer.
Considering the tactical variant of the Miranda/Avenger class is more heavily armed than the Constitution, it seems likely that it was outfitted as a Warship first and foremost.
That era was very militarised and formal. Probably a direct reaction to Romulan and Klingon aggression.
The Constitution Refit is such a sexy ship though damn... Every time I see a really well done model... so nice.
The roll-bar is an excellent way of making a starship into a warship, yet leaving the base design as a multirole vessel. Starfleet doubletalk, but an excellent design solution. Given the arrival of the Klingons in ST3 TSFS, having the warship variant available would have made sense.
Folks don't seem to realize how large the Miranda's hull is; way broader than the Constitution's primary hull. The thickened aft provides an efficient addition of volume.
Given the low registry number of the Reliant, that it seemed to exist in TOS, the Miranda class would seem to have existed for some time. Presumably, the Reliant went through a major-major refit similar to the Enterprise; possibly with an amped up warp-core to help power those weapons. Doubtlessly, huge numbers of Mirandas would be constructed with Motion Picture level tech, and would be further refit in order to serve well into the 24th C. Many ships, though, being reduced to purely utilitarian use. They would have been the starship version of heavy pickup trucks for Starfleet in the 23rd C, and a whole lot of light pickup trucks in the 24th C.
I think that their volume, power, compactness and versatility made them very valuable utility ships that could be easily made to be heavy warships with the roll bar. In later years, they might have fallen short as warships, but were still there in that capacity, and still very well represented as utility ships in TNG and beyond. Indeed, many might have come out of mothballs to serve in the Dominion War as there always seemed to be a Miranda or two in any large taskforce.
The Soyuz -class looked like a Miranda but that was because they took the USS Reliant studio model and modified it then model also was modified again to be the USS Saratoga Ben Sisko's ship in ''Emissary'' the roll bar on the model was removed to make it the USS Lantree also as the USS Brattain but still in the Reliant configuration .
Definitely a warship or at least a heavily upgraded ship that is more heavily armed than a Constitution Class. Just because SF says they don't build warships doesn't make it so. They do what they need to do. Remember Section 31? We don't have cloaking devices, but we actually are working on one in secret in violation of the treaty of Algernon.