Battle Breakdown - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan Part 1 - Khan's Attack CG Analysis!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ต.ค. 2023
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Let's break down the surprise attack of the Reliant in control of Khan versus the Enterprise. What really happened?
Find part 2 at • Star Trek II Tactical ...
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Although Khan is intelligent he is not an experienced starship commander like Adm.James T. Kirk who served in Starfleet for years commanding a starship.
@@ericmadsen7470 Exactly. In some edits of this movie, Kirk tells McCoy that the Enterprise is intact only because he (Kirk) knew something about Starfleet ships (their prefix codes) that Khan didn't know. I always wanted McCoy to reply that Kirk had earned that knowledge through decades of dedicated service to Starfleet, whereas Khan had done nothing to earn that knowledge.
I'm just going to leave this other TH-cam jem here: th-cam.com/video/2yLkr8nK0Qg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7DyCevZU3iY_KsUb This is the other must-see Wrath of Khan combat video
Used to love life is feudal it is a dead game. Yes they resuscitated that horse briefly but its still the ten year old game with a 15 year old torqe engine
@6:23 ... the TOS era starship could, indeed, fire force beams from the deflector dish. The episode The Paradise Syndrome shows Big E firing a beam at an asteroid, that is threatening this weeks planet.
I would argue that the SFX used in that movie still looks pretty good. They went for absolute broke with the models, green screen, and the hand-drawn effects!
To me it was the first realistic looking phaser fire .. TOS phaser fire looked like straws and TMP was more of a drive by. The pulsed lightning like fire from Reliant was perfect and is still admirable today :)
One of biggest comments by non-fans who see the fight in Wraith all say how well everything holds up 40 years later. From SFX, to the lighting, directing and acting, just doesn't feel dated in anyway.
@@TK199999 With the minor exception of the CGI powerpoint presentation
@@Sephiroth144 LoL! What is Genesis? It's essentially, Life from Lifelessness...
When that fire spreads over and then the little tiny mountains start to spike up from the water...yeah, that's pretty 1980s 🤣
I think due to time pressures to get the presentation done they had ChatGPT do it and it spit out a weird presentation but there wasn't time to redo it so they went with it.
I love how Sulu's first shot goes straight for the jugular, trying to destroy Reliant's warp core.
Underrated tactician and a brilliant future captain!
Wrath of Sulu strikes once again
Just like when one of the Swordfish torpedo bombers from the carrier HMS Ark Royal scored the lucky hit on the rudder of the German battleship Bismarck.
I saw the film in 1982, the audience was invested from minute one, the beginning of the rematch had the audience cheering and people were verbally expressing, " Spock can't die! " This film holds up to this day.
I think the RELIANT's design was as iconic and interesting as the ENTERPRISE. I really like how she looks, more like a destroyer, fast and well armed.
Those pulse phaser cannons don't mess around.
Great breakdown! With Scotty saying the battery could only fire a few shots I always took it that Kirk emptied everything he had and it wasn't that he let Khan get away but that he had no power left. What remained in the battery was not enough to fire the phasers. With both side's weapons offline they had no real choice but to retire. I do think that Kirk of all people would have raised shields. He even notes in the tense moments leading up to the fight how strange the situation is. He saw so much crazy shit just in the original Star Trek it seems very out of character for him to not raise shields.
You have to consider that Kirk has been out of practice for quite some time being in the Admiralty for the second time. In the Motion Picture he was out of action for 2 1/2 years and it took Decker's insight and Spock's timely arrival for him to shake off the rust.
If you consider other outside canon sources such as RPG games, Comics, or Kirk's Autobiography, he was either yanked out of command of the Enterprise immediately after the V'Ger crisis due to his celebrity status as Starfleet couldn't afford to lose such a high-profile officer. Or, after the second five-year mission, Kirk accepts another promotion as Admiral in order to run the Academy. OR Kirk was forced out of Starfleet once he returned from the 2nd five-year mission by a corrupt High-Ranking Admiral that he blackmailed into regaining command of the Enterprise. Years pass, that corrupt admiral is disgraced out of Starfleet which allows Kirk to return... but he's stuck as an Admiral yet again, now overseeing the Academy.
In any of those scenarios, he's out of starship command shape 8 to 13 years. He's going to be very rusty.
this is not about being old. not about kirk being "out of practice". Kirk is confronted with a subordinate. Reliant was directly under his command, the Genesis project was under his authority. he is perplexed. and most importantly... the reason it is part of the plot...
is Pride. arrogance. both kirk and Khan are prideful, arrogant beings. Khan is taking advantage of kirk's arrogance in assuming a star fleet ship under his authority would be friendly, despite it acting quite questionable.
just as Khan is felled by his Arrogance, his pride, later in the film, it harms kirk in the start. once Kirk understands he is in a real situation, not just more paperwork and simulations, you see him begin to discard his these flaws, and to use them to his advantage against the far more prideful and arrogant khan. it's a bit part of the story's theme.
"This is damned peculiar"
~Famous last words of Admiral Kirk, moments before getting blown to pieces by Khan Noonien Singh, in some alternate universe.
@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785
And in yet another alternate universe:
SAAVIK: Sir, may I quote General Order Twelve, ''On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established...''
KIRK: Raise shields!
It was during this time that Kirk met Antonia and lived on a ranch together. The relationship ended when Kirk chooses to resume his Starfleet career as he recounts in
Generations
This was a fantastic breakdown! I loved the new angles you showed and the tactical layouts. Really well done!
In regards to Joachim's battle damage report to Khan, I always thought it was a reference to The Motion Picture. In TMP, the Enterprise was caught in a wormhole and were on a collision course with an asteroid. Kirk ordered phasers to destroy the asteroid, but Decker countermanded the phaser order and directed Chekov to arm photon torpedoes instead. After the incident, Kirk demands an explanation for his phaser order being countermanded. Decker explains that the new (refit) design channels phasers through the warp drive. When the engine went into antimatter imbalance the phasers were automatically put offline.
So, in TWOK, Joachim stated that warp drive and photon control were taken out. Therefore, since the warp drive was taken out they had no phasers. And since they had no photon control, torpedoes were useless.
Sulu knew what he was doing. He knew how to disable the Reliant with just a few shots. It's also perfect irony. Kirk nearly destroys the Enterprise in TMP because of this specific lack of knowledge. In TWOK Kirk saves the Enterprise with this knowledge.
Good point, and Khan probably hadn't really had time to deeply study the technical manuals of the Reliant or refit either, so that was a nasty surprise to him. Definitely a design flaw on the part of Starfleet's ship design engineers...I doubt it was Scotty's idea.
Agreed completely. That was my exact interpretation as well.
Sauce for the goose, Mr. Saavik 😉
Awesome video. Wasn't expecting a 2nd part... It was like watching Season 3 TNG and realizing "Mr. Worf, Fire" was the end. That was a long summer. 😁
No shit! That was the most heinous cliffhanger in history to that point.
I never tire of seeing that movie, or the engagement. Some things are just timeless.
My nephews saw this movie for the first time just a few hours ago. What a crazy coincidence. BTW They loved it. Hated the ending but that's understandable 😄
Of course, everyone has their preferences, but it was exactly that outcome that made "The Wrath of Khan" the best film in the entire Star Trek franchise. It has become a script standard to this day.
Reliant had a deflector. It's a square cutout located on the underside of the saucer just above the ventral sensor dome.
escape pods. reliant deflector are the 2 nodes on upper saucer
After Wraith all Star Fleet ships raise their primary shields once Yellow Alert is activated. The other problem the Enterprise had, since it was on a training cruise. It didn't have the large cadre of NCO's (like Chief O'Brian), rather a small group of instructors, that would command individual groups of sailors or crew members like on a normal mission. Which prevents panic and inaction/incorrect action of teams, like during an attack. Which is why it broke poor Scotty's heart, his nephew didn't run. He stayed at his post (when everybody else ran) and tried to manage the situation as best he cold. Probably preventing more damage, deaths and or one of factors that help the Enterprise survive at all. For a cadet to act so bravely and intelligently in crisis, the service lost almost as much as Scotty did with Preston's death. I also believe the way the Energizer works in Star Trek is basically a Particle Accelerator in reverse. Converting radiation (light, alpha, beta, gamma, heat) and other exotic particles generated by the Warp plasma into massive amounts of electrical power. Even the fusion reactor powering the Impulse engines still function basically same way. But with a different version of an Energizer designed for fusion reactor plasma rather than Warp plasma.
I would have liked to believe this incident caused starfleet to make several changes. First they no longer sent training crew made up of a small group of instructors overseeing a much larger group of trainees with no NCOs out on training missions. Sadly red squad and the uss valiant shot that one to hell.
I also like to think that as a result of this incident, starfleet changed their procedures for alert status. When going from Condition green to an alert they had to raise shields. If you notice in TNG and the others they would order yellow alert and to raise shields. In TOS yellow alert was just an elevated alert status, no raised shields except when the story demanded it.
You're more than likely correct as before this Fleet Captain Pike was made total invalid on a training mission with an old J type ship full of cadets, and on this mission you had the death if Captain Spoke and nearly the death of Admiral Kirk. So chances are they changed that, the reason Red Squad would have been given its own ship with a senior staff is probably because they were the top of their class best of the best and considered just as good as fully commissioned officers.
I also think the regulations changed more than likely as in the original series main timeline in the episode Errand of Mercy the Enterprise survives a surprise attack by a Klingon ship only because the deflectors had an automatic circuit that caused them to snap on when any ship not viewed as a friend came towards them. So after this incident chances are Star Fleet changed it to any ship is given a situation to raise shields regardless.
Didn’t have NCO’s? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the original Enterprise’s complement of 430 included 47 commissioned officers and 380 NCO’s, didn’t it?
Great video. Loved it. However there is an answer as to why Kirk didn’t pursue and continue hitting Reliant after he dropped her shields.
Just before Reliant contacts Enterprise and orders her surrender, Kirk talks to Scotty over the intercom as the bridge erupts in flames.
“Can you give me phaser power?”
To which Scotty responds with, “Just a few shots sir.”
Spock then chimes in, “Not enough against their shields.”
This indicates that with the mains offline and auxiliary just being knocked out by the torpedo hit, there wasn’t enough power for the phasers to fire more than a few relatively low power shots before being drained of what little charge they had.
khan also likely would get the shields back up (and the codes changed) after the initial attack. he still had power for shields, they were just down for that critical strike by the enterprise.
And he got a few shots- how many more do you think were in the tank?
@@Sephiroth144They probably used what few shots they had to damage the Reliant.
@@GlorfindelofGondolin That's what I meant; even if they chased the Reliant down, they wouldn't have had anything to throw at her.
@@Sephiroth144Ah, ok.
Great video. I love the inclusion of more detailed concepts for the engineering within the starships which allow them to function which are only ever mentinoed in dialogue and elft to the imagination. It makes the starships feel like irl vessels, with all sorts of machinary and technology required to make them go, where damage to a single component can lead to issues down the line. It adds to the jeopardy in my mind and Star Trek could do with including it more in the more recent series and movies.
I loved this so much! I can’t wait for part 2. I’m 50 years old and have seen the movie over 100 times and this breakdown was fantastic!
Lol me too. 😂
Been waiting on this break down for awhile!
I was kind of surprised you didn't use more sound effects, which you normally do in your videos. The Enterprise's phasers didn't make any noise at all!
I would like to note that in "The Ultimate Computer," Kirk avoided a potentially lethal misunderstanding by NOT raising shields. He also avoided total destruction by V'ger by not raising shields before V'ger fired. Perhaps he had the same thinking here.
In both of those situations he explained his reasoning. In the ultimate computer HIS ship had just attacked the other starships so HE was technically the aggressor. In TMP V'ger had already been attacked by the Klingons and attacked the epsilon station. Both had likely taking steps to try and defend itself by raising shields. In both those situations he DELIBERATELY ordered the shields be kept down. The reliant was another federation starship acting strangely. In fact going to a defensive stance but keeping weapons offline would have been a BETTER choice. No the scene was written with an intentional plot hole because a yellow alert by default should have raised shields and the attack could not have occurred the way it did without it.
But consider this minor alteration: Kirk orders yellow alert after Savik mentions regulations. Shields go up. Reliant sends a broken (and fake) message saying they had suffered a radiation leak and need assistance. Kirk not checking with Spock first orders shields down and damage control/medical teams to the transporter room to assist. Spock not wanting to question Kirk's orders (like he just chided Savik over a moment ago) does an independent scan and reports there is no radiation coming from the Reliant. Rest of the scene with the attack plays out normally.
This minor change would fit within the time frame and dialog of the scene easily and explain everything as to why Kirk says he got caught with his pants down.
Nonetheless, V'Ger took them as hostile and fired anyway, forcing the deflectors to pop on automatically. So as a strategy, Kirk is 0 for 2.
Or 1 for 3, I guess
I don’t think it’s apathy. Kirk feels he’s too old to be a Captain. Not physical enough anymore to throw punches. Not mentally sharp enough to make decisions. Spock and McCoy know he’s feeling this way and are trying to help him refind his confidence. It’s a very reasonable and typical way for a man in his fifties to feel.
I don't think warp cores are ejectable at this time. Honestly, I kinda like the idea that it was fairly new with the Nebula/Galaxy era (which would explain why they had so many issues with warp cores and when trying to eject warp cores in TNG - new ejecting design and not all the safeties are quite up to dealing with what ships actually can get into in the field). It would also explain why he'd aim further back and essentially cause the damage to force a "scram" of the warp core since the created energy would have nowhere to go except the wrecked area.
Nice! Wrath of Khan has been on a lot of channels lately hasn't it?
The movie might not've made as much money as some of the onther ones, but for entertainment it's certainly at the top of the list. I still get a tear when Shatner's voice catches on reading that line.
Jack Horners music is on point and the FX still holds up.
Many people still argue for nerd points about the warp drives in Star Trek, but when has there ever been consistency in the show? I guess the problem started with TNG when the Producers decided that they couldn't just 'show' professionals at work, they had to 'tell you' about it via infamous 'technobabble'? But once you start doing that you start writing yourself into a corner. Add into that, different writers every week, guest directors, guest-stars, stand-in Producers and then the creator of the show dies; I can't imagine how messy it got.
A common point of contention are the 2 columns leading to the core in the middle. It's a pipe with a magnetic insulator to stop the contents touching [boom], or causing friction, yet it's often described as the critical factor of the 'power level' of the core, even if the reaction chamber where the magic happens is actually quite modest. But usually nothing outside of warp factor speeds is ever really stated in the show, any power output is given in technobabble, therefore is unreliable.
Example: In DS9, Odo and his changeling friend in a dress, roll around on top of the Defiant reactor chamber like it's a 4 poster bed, yet, because the ship is at best 4 decks tall the Defiant is described, by the fandom, as having a lower power reactor than TNG or Voyager because it isn't as tall.
I don't ever want anyone to fabricate an in-universe explanation for a GNDN pipe. For me, such a pipe will always be something that "Goes Nowhere, Does Nothing".🙂
FYI, the soundtrack conpoaser's name was James Horner, not Jack.Jack Horner is the name a of a fairly well known paleontologist, probably best known for consulting on the orignal Jurassic Park movies.
I assumed that yellow alert also, and principally, polarizes the hull plating. This would seemingly require less power than shields and therefore be a suitably precautionary measure against a lower risk attack.
This was excellent btw; you have a new subscriber.
It's always impressed me how much the writers thought about how the ships work, how to use that to tell the story, and how to communicate that to an audience who might not be familiar with Trek. The hits shown are mostly followed by interior shots in the correct location, with a focus on how the ships use energy. The Enterprise doesn't have it's guns shot off or armor stripped away - it loses the energy needed to power weapons and shields. That is not at all how starships in other franchises work, nor how anything viewers might be familiar with in the real world works, but the movie does an excellent job or showing it in detail.
It also reflects Khans intention to cripple but not destroy the Enterprise and references the fact that Khan studied the design of the Enterprise (in the TOS episode, and possibly again onboard the Reliant). Great storytelling.
Seventeen years later (more or less), the spaceship submarine combat motif would reemerge ('surface surface') in Wing Commander (1999). With a touch of Top Gun (1986).
"What's our status?"
"We're running at 110%. We've already lost three ships, two at jump points and one's reactor core melted down." Richard Bellegarde
"Run at 120." Admiral Geoffrey Tolwyn: (David Warner)
Wing Commander (1999)
"Both Catapults are broken, sir."
"How long will it take?"
"It'll take ten minutes."
"Bullshit ten minutes! This thing will be over in two minutes! Get on it!" Stinger
Top Gun (1986
"Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we're all dead!" Kirk
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
I love the use of the particular almost melodic "mournful sensor wail" from Wrath of Khan here, something about the sound design in that movie seemed particularly unique.
Fantastic Breakdown, i've hope you can also breakdown the Enterprise battle with the Bird of Prey in ST 3 and the Enterprise, Excelsion vs Chang's Bird of Prey in ST 6.
The only detail I would add is that the dome on the bottom of the saucer section is the main sensor dome and has been since TOS. After the torpedo strike and the starboard side of the bridge explodes, Spock's pull-out scanner console is dark. When the Enterprise makes it to Regula Station, Spock points out they are basically blind because that aft torpedo strike took out the sensors. So the phaser strike was the proverbial baton to the knee that hobbles the Enterprise, and the torpedo to the sensor dome is the stick in the eye to blind them. From a tactical standpoint, extremely efficient. If Kahn's ego weren't so massively inflated along with his other abilities, he might've just kept shooting until the Enterprise exploded and gone on his way. But then it wouldn't be much of a revenge film lol
Going after the warp drive disables the phasers. That was touched upon in the previous movie when they fell into the wormhole. Captain Decker had to belay a phaser order because they were at warp, and firing phasers at the asteroid wouldn't work since the phasers drew their power from the engaged warp drive.
This is just far and away the best thought out and plausible walk through of anything like this. I really do think depth adds weight to stories (or at least lots of stories benefit from it and Trek is one of them).
I've seen WW2 naval break downs, and this is right up there. The detail and accuracy is incredible. Thank you for this.
Amazing. I never had a good idea about the ship’s internal layout. It makes sense that Khan’s people would be an exceptionally gifted crew.
You forget that the Enterprise's port torpedo launcher was badly damaged and disabled by one of Khan's phaser attacks in the nebula. Presumably, that damage was never fully repaired by the time of the third movie, as Kirk had said MOST of their battle damage...but not all. It can be safe to say that torpedo launcher remained nonfunctional by the time Kirk's Enterprise faced the Klingon Bird of Prey, hence why they only fired torpedos from the starboard torpedo launcher.
Kirk lets the Reliant go? Nope. The battery was drained. The Enterprise couldn't get off anymore shots. When Scotty says "just the battery is left" it is also asked "Do we have enough power for Phasers?" "A few shots, sir!" They were lucky to be able to do the damage they did. After that battle, though, the Enterprise was adrift. It had no battery and no power. Once auxiliary power was restored, it was able to limp its way to Regula 1. In fact, if not for the fact that the phaser battery was charged prior to Khan's attack, the Enterprise would have been completely had, because it would have had no phasers, either.
This was amazing. I've watched this movie my entire life, but I've never seen such a good breakdown. Like you pointed out, tech details are all over the place. I think this was a really thoughtful breakdown of the information we have. Can't wait to see more.
Really love these battle breakdowns, keep up the good work!
Great to see that you have sponsors now! This was awesome and I cannot wait to see the finale!
This is an incredible battle breakdown. I have been watching this movie over and over since I was a kid. I loved that they did a continuation from an original series episode. The battle was very tactical and well made. I now can see why both ships took as much damage as they did when hit by weapons. Keep up the fantastic work!
Looking forward to the next installment. A fine production overall. Well worth my time watching, and your time putting this together.
I do love the reference to submarine warfare being similar to this. It IS just two tubes of metal trying to hunt each other with futuristic weapons. Plus it holds even more true in the nebula battle. Looking forward to seeing it.
Nicholas Meyer was inspired by the Hornblower novels.
Good call on citing available power as a factor in ship tactical capability. Some sources often emphasize weapons stations and station max power output as a deciding factor in the total destructive capacity a vessel can dish out. However, even if the total max power of an array or bank is the same, a ship with larger total power output, could charge that array/bank capacitor equivalents faster, thus at the very least, providing higher rate of fire and max power. Alternatively, the extra power could be used in other "softer" ways, like like discharging heat sinks faster, or in the case of mechanical aiming devices, make for lower targeting adjustment times, which could in effect provide even faster firing times and greater precision. Extra power could also give the Enterprise faster Shield regeneration times and more power available for structural integrity fields, which could make her more durable in a prolonged engagement. Disabling this advantage of the Enterprise in in such light, a sound tactical choice.
As for the "fair" one-on-one comparison of the two ships, personally i like to think of them as fairly equivalent in total capability, with one set of advantages going to the one, and others to the other. For me at least, the Enterprise is more of a an "old" style cruiser, while the Reliant is more a "smart" type cruiser. Something like comparing guns and missiles that can in the end deliver similar destructive punch, but in a different manner. Although the extent to how much of each is capable of, can't really be established based on the limited data we are presented on screen.
I've seen a lot of breakdowns of this battle. Nice work sir, best one I've seen.
In all these older movies, you get the feel that starships are these large and extremely heavy vessels that take a lot of space to maneuver. They are reminiscent of the way battleships and other military ships maneuver on the ocean.
Bravo! Top notch breakdown on what has to be the best starship battle in Trek history. Looking forward to part 2.
I am a long time trekkie: st:tm and st:wok in movie theaters.
This is, by far, the best breakdown I've seen or head of what's going on in this movie.
Congratulations! And thank you for sharing!
This is a masterpiece. Entertaining, intelligent, and thoroughly researched. Well done.
Fantastic video. At the end though, it was said that Kirk decided to let Khan go instead of "enduring more bloodshed". However as the video mentioned earlier, and I believe Spock says to Kirk while they're assessing the damage - the Enterprise only had battery power available for a few phaser shots at this point. So perhaps less of a moral choice by Kirk and more a matter of available resources.
Great video. This is my favorite Trek movie and I loved the breakdown. Live long and prosper.
Did you notice when Captain Terrell and Chekov first landed on Seti Alpha 5 and walked into the Botany Bay and the camera does a slow pan of the deserted interior.
Look on the bookshelf and you can read some of the books Khan was stranded with.
There is a copy of Moby Dick on the bookshelf.
ooh this was a nice treat can't wait to see to next part
also want to add that I love the visuals in this video, especially how depicted the dmg reports for both ships. looking fwd to pt 2
When the Enterprise was redesigned, phaser control was routed to draw power from the warp drive (ST TMP), so it's logical to assume that all Federation ships have the same setup. By Kirk destroying the impulse crystals on Reliant, he effectively knocked out primary warp power (which also took out the phasers), and collateral damaged the photon torpedo launcher, situated just above the impulse crystal. Hope this helps.
Being a heavy cruise/explorer I think the Constitution is able to do most tasks very well without modification. The Miranda class seems to be a class designed to be reconfigured for specific tasks (transport, science, tactical). The Constitution, being designed for multi tasking, probably has higher power generation capabilities that an experienced engineer could harness and redirect cleverly. The Miranda, probably has less power to play with. In the first barrage Khan goes straight for the power systems of the Enterprise (the warp drive) to take away that massive advantage.
The Constitution is designed to operate for long periods in remote areas, so it probably has the higher reserve power capacity too (larger batteries higher secondary power generation). That’s the second system Khan targets (impulse drive). Scotty seems very concerned with the power systems after both attacks, almost shocked even. Even auxiliary (backup) power is affected.
It’s a really clever battle that is less about raw firepower and more about tactics. Only a few shots are fired by each combatant. Khan shows restraint, wanting to put Kirk in a cat and mouse game. Kirk is forced to ration what little power the ship has access to, every shot must count.
Forcing both combatants to show restraint makes the entire thing so much more satisfying to watch.
Excellent video! Looking forward to Part 2!
Is there a analysis of how Spock reached the conclusion that only his actions could save the ship? Spock is fascinating to watch.
That was really well done. Very cool and a lot of fun to watch. Thanks!
The reason why Kirk lets them go is that the Enterprise is down to bare minimum power for life support. This can be traced back to a few lines of dialogue just after the torpedo hit that takes out auxiliary power.
Kirk: "Scotty, what's left?!"
Scotty: "Just the batteries, sir! I can have auxiliary power in a few minutes."
Kirk: " We don't HAVE a few minutes!! ...Can you give me phaser power??"
Scotty: "A few shots, sir..."
Spock: "Not enough against their shields."
Kirk: "Who the hell are they?!"
(Uhura breaks in with news of Reliant's hail)
When they used the prefix code, they were still running on emergency battery power and only had power enough for a few shots from the phasers and no power for the photon torpedo launchers. Without auxiliary power, the batteries could only power the RCS thrusters. Mains power comes from the warp core. Auxiliary power from the Impulse Fusion Reactors. Like you said, normally they siphon off power for the impulse engines from the warp core when under normal operating conditions. The "few minutes" Scotty mentions is probably the time to bring the Impulse Fusion Reactors back online and up to operating power after the damage from that photon torpedo temporarily knocked them out.
Kirk gambled all his remaining power on the prefix code working and using that power to land those critical phaser hits. Once those few shots were made, the Enterprise was down to life support power only until the fusion reactors were up to operating power levels. And it would still only give them impulse power. At that moment, the Enterprise was dead in the water.
And the "photon control" Joaquin mentions has nothing to do with the warp drive. The warp drive doesn't use "high energy photons". The blast damage from the impulse control crystal likely hit the underside of the torpedo launcher and damaged the control circuits. Prior to Joaquin's report, Khan was yelling "Fire! Fire!". When he responded that they couldn't and Khan demanded "Why can't you?!", he mentions the warp drive and photon control being damaged. Since this is a refit class, the phasers were cutoff when the warp drive was damaged, and the photon control eliminates the photon torpedoes as an option.
I always prefer your method of using the onscreen visuals to extrapolate ship performance data. Great job!
In regards to the Miranda class: I would technically designate it as a patrol ship. It doesn't make sense to me that a pacifist organization like the Federation would willingly classify ships based on military classes. With that said, you did forget one very important function of the Constitution that of a diplomatic vessel. We do see Sarak and other representatives are taken to Babel. Let's jump ahead to Star Trek 6 and we see Kirk and crew pull all the stops to honor Gorkon and his retinue aboard the Enterprise-A. I would argue that the same would be on the refit 1701.
I also would argue that the 1701 would be the Galaxy equivalent of the 23rd Century. For their times both classes are at the leading edge in starship technology. Not to mention their mission profiles are the same. So, my argument comes from the STII novelization - the Miranda is a vessel that is not purpose built to explore the unknown. Instead is class meant to... well... PATROL. We have to remember that there is still a cold war going on between the Federation, Klingons and Romulans. You would have a ship like the Miranda be on the border of rival nations. She is armed to fight any intruder from all angles after all. As for why the Reliant is sent to Ceti Alpha instead of a Oberth is because of the close proximity to Klingon space.
Been fun.
Yeah, feels like you'd send a Constitution-class like Enterprise out on the deep space exploration missions while the Miranda served as a more workhorse utility ship, doing the work of maintaining the Federation while the Connies did the exploration.
Overall given the design of the vessels and how Star Fleet usually didn't consider themselves as a military but would deploy its vessels in a similar fashion to that of a military. The Enterprise while sent out on missions if exploration was in essence a frontline ship because often the Enterprise was a first response to any situation, but was also built with the design of power to go toe to toe with a Klingon D-7 which was the Klingons top of the line ship. More than likely the Miranda class was designed as a destroyer or a frigate given it can put up a solid fight for sure but not take on its stronger counterparts of the time.
This is good. You can tell you put in so much for this vid. Thank you
A small correction: Khan went to Regula-1 first to grab the Genesis device, but had to leave to intercept the Enterprise before he could find it.
Great video and analysis. I agree with a previous comment Kirk did not decide to let Kahn go he simply did not have any power left in the batteries after he used his,”just a few shots” on Khan. I just subscribed.
Outstanding breakdown and analysis!
The GFX used in your explanations are fantastic!
So looking forward to the next one. This was fantastic 😍
Great video, can't wait for part 2!
One other thing that makes this movie arguably the best in the franchise, and one of the best Sci-Fi movies of all time, is the music by James Horner and how each scene is choreographed perfectly with the musical score.
I suspect the loss to Reliant's photon control may have been from conduits and control consoles blowing out from overloads which always tends to happen on Star Trek ships, regardless of where the ship is hit...even a hit to a warp nacelle or bathroom tends to fry helm control circuits on the bridge...or send black rocks into the crew's faces.
Excellent. Very good breakdown.
This is also the first and last TOS movie when we see ship phasers used. In all the others, it’s just torpedoes.
Thank you for sharing this amazing video and breakdown.
I had assumed that Tyrell and Chekov has been mined for their knowledge of starship operations, but failed to consider they would also ask for military opinions specific to "Admiral" Kirk. WWJTKD? Very nice to include that!
There are only two things I may like to discuss. The first is the approach vector of Reliant. Khan had just come from murdering the scientists at the Regula 1 station, so he would be approaching from there?... as he had to "return to the Reliant in time to blow you (Kirk) to bits.".
I've also noticed that when the Reliant fired on Enterprise to open the battle, it only used one of its "Roll Bar" phaser banks. I can't imagine the carnage if it was able to use both of them in that first assault. I guess one was enough?
In the Nebula, Reliant attacks again, and hits Enterprise on the Port Side. When it does, the film shows the Starboard phaser making contact, with the Port Phaser making a clean miss. Again, only half the possible damage was dished out.
I love these videos, and the FASA content, as I used to have the Combat Simulator board game back in '86. Secret handshake - The number 60680 meant a lot to me, and I even included it in some of the Sci Fi stories I'd written for English assignments back in the day.
~LLAP
I very much agree that given want an Miranda class is capable of the ship seems to use only the basics which plays into Spock's theory that Khan is very inexperienced and may not have enough knowledge to fully utilize his ships abilities.
Can't wait for part 2.
Just subscribed.
You forget that in TMP that Decker specifically belays Kirk's phaser order in the warmhole and switched to photon torpedoes because the refit version channels it's power through the warp drive engines for more power.
And I think the blue dome on the Reliant is essentially the deflector dish for that configuration.
But excellent analysis of the whole exchange! Brilliant!🤘🏻
And loved how you used some of the original sound effects that make it really definitive! 👏🏻😁
The blue dome is definitely part of the power/reactor systems for the impulse drive. The Excelsior also has the blue dome on its saucer.
Amazing work!
The comparison to submarine power essentially explaining the enigma behind some of the terminology used in this film feels really obvious now that you point it out this way. No idea why I hadn't internalized this sooner with all the other submarine motifs present throughout TWOK.
Fascinating. I'd have thought that even before TWOK, it was kinda obvious they were borrowing those concepts.
Very nicely done!
Love the graphics... very much following through 80's Trek aesthetic. Good work!
Weirdly enough, the actual designers of the Reliant have stated that it's an older, less powerful ship that can barely hold it's own against the Enterprise. Given the amount of weapons, I find that hard to accept. I suppose you could try to argue that the phaser cannons are an older, bulkier and less efficient weapon compared to the phaser turrets, but again, I find that hard to believe. I really think the FASA game tech manuals got it right. Avenger Class heavy frigate, equipped with mega-phasers and a weapons roll bar.
The line about the damage to the photon controls and the warp drive is meant to explain why they can’t fire back. In Star Trek 1 it was explained that the phasers are powered directly by the warp drive for more power. So if the warp drive is down, phasers are too. But the movie also demonstrated that the photon torpedoes are independent of the warp drive.
So “photon controls” must refer to the controls for the photon torpedoes to explain why they too cannot be used.
Of course, Enterprise is somehow able to fire a limited phaser burst on aux power. But perhaps Kirk had requested she be able to do that, after the wormhole incident in ST1, or Scotty is just so good and experienced that he can reroute power like that while Khans crew cannot.
Excellent breakdown!
Funny how he blamed and hated kirk, when khan quietly told kirk it was better to rule in hell than serve in heaven
I've been watching ST since the '70s and I have the original tech manual and blueprints and am versed in the newer tech things through STNG. I have to say you have a great job with this video. I agree with the assumptions you have made and the battle breakdown in very good.
This is amazing! Thank you!
wonderfully done thank you very much
Fantastic. Well done!
From early tech manuals that I read way back in the 90s from a fellow trek nerd, the Reliant’s phaser hard points on the boom were directly linked to the warp core and were supposed to be a lot more powerful than the standard phasers mounted on the saucer. This has probably been retconned several times over at this point, but I always felt the Reliant had a better setup for combat.
The lack of aft torpedos on the Enterprise was also retconned (or refitted) on later models with a single torpedo launcher mounted aft of the primary forward facing launchers. Oh one side note, in the Enterprise episode “In a mirror darkly” had the old Constitution class with an aft torpedo launcher which was a continuity error, though it was cool when Archer asked if the ship had it and evil Trip responded with “you better believe it”. Should’ve gone with phasers instead.
I love how Kirk has a knack for being able to turn a nearly impossible position into a break even or even one of slight advantage in an instant like with the Kobayashi Maru. Never underestimate him.
15:32 Nope. IN the script and the film as presented, the Enterprise ends this engagement on battery power only. AUX power is restored after the fact. What Enterprise uses against the Reliant is the phaser power that was already diverted their when she went to yellow alert.
17:19 It was definitely referring to the photon launcher. They damaged the warp drive, meaning the phaser banks were cut off. They damaged the photon controls, meaning the torpedos were out. This nullifies Reliants ability to fire.
17:31 What else was he supposed to do? The Enterprise had no power, her torpedo bays were not primed for battle, her phaser banks were likely depleted of power after the few shots tehy managed to get off on the Reliant.
This is my second favourite starship battle, following "Balance of Terror".
The battles in "Wrath" and "Terror" are similar in that they are one-ship-versus-one-ship, battles of wits, long, and we experience the death of people whom we have come to know.
I found these battles much more interesting and realistic than the thousand-ships-versus-thousand-ships explosion festivals in some other shows. Those are just fireworks and kaleidoscopes. Real combat involves human beings ... tragically.
“Ceti Alpha 6 exploded, 6 months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. ‘Admiral’ Kirk never bothered to check on our progress.”
-Khan
^^For anyone wondering how that happened. No need to explain it in a separate video really…..
My favorite movie of all time. I'm trying to get the feel of these encounters between Kirk and Khan just right. So it's taking me longer than I would like to get my game based on these types of encounters out, but I want it to be about as perfect as I can get it. Looking forward to the day when I can see an unlimited number of these battles play out between players. Your videos are a big help. You should watch a movie called "The Enemy Below", it's where the original series adopted their idea for starship combat. The episode "Balance of Terror" almost mimics the movie.
2:35 How many of us screamed "This is Ceti Alpha 5!"
I love what you’ve done here - just joined the channel.
Not to be the armchair critic but, two things: 1. It’s said, individually, the Enterprise’ phaser type (FH-11) are more powerful than Reliant type (FH-10); 2. the torpedo hit Enterprise takes is on the other side of the secondary hull engineering, not the saucer section. You can see this in the next movie which shows the battle damage. There are also hints to this during the battle, like when Spock gives Kirk a damage report, and when we see the torpedo direction coming down before impact. I don’t know why they didn’t include battle damage in Wrath of Kahn. Was a major blunder.
This was very good.
Great breakdown!! My favorite movie!!
If you haven't already I'd suggest reading through the technical books published on both ships that explain their systems and layouts. Reliant has a deflector, she also has a pair of phaser banks fore the bridge on the dorsal side of the primary hull by the name paint and a matching pair ventral side if memory serves. Enterprise's phasers are routed through warp power relays to give them more punch, etc.. You are spot on about the Miranda class being the workhorse of the fleet and seeing a lot of variations. This particular ship had also had a somewhat recent refit if memory serves. Lot of guesswork here to things that are addressed in previous documentation. Overall the video is well done and I enjoyed.
I think it was a good idea for Kirk to abandon fight as soon as he damaged the Reliant enough.
Just how extensive the damage to the Enterprise was, was still mostly unknown, the crew of cadets was still pretty shaken up and he had no idea what other aces Khan might have up his sleeve. It was a good idea to retreat, assess the damage and prepare for the next engagement instead of risking it all in an immediate all out fight.
Awesome video. Need more of these…I’d love to see the battle from Balance of Terror
Edit: oh damn, just checked the channel and there already is one! Hell yea!
Great video.
Fantastic video!
Enjoy your work thanks for the diversion.
You are certainly welcome and thank you! I'll be sure to mention these supers on ending of my next video!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and nicely informatively explained in every detail way shape and form on this format and subject matter provided on the weapon systems and shielding availability plus energy output from the main warp core and backup systems and the usage of the Main Deflector and various sensors and so forth for the Battle worthiness and tactics of both the Enterprise and Reliant indeed!,👌.
I've always said that the Miranda-class starship is like the old HMS Hood, in that she packed a heavy punch but had a glass jaw when it came to shield generation.
Khan hit main engineering where not only the physical damage would hurt the ship, but also where the people who were best at fixing the ship were located. The Constitution-class can generate incredible amounts of power, and if the Enterprise were firing on the Reliant with better than battery power she would have blown her out of space.
Excellent breakdown❤
I love your Batte breakdowns 👍