The Classic Klingon D-7 Cruiser - Stupid or Genius Design?? Animated Breakdown!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2022
- The Klingon D-7 Battlecruiser from classic Star Trek, later refit to the K'tinga - seems to be a very structurally vulnerable design, especially with the long neck section. Is this a good idea? Lets break it down!
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Other possibilities:
1) Klingons admire cunning, so it could be a deception - the neck looks like the weakest part of the ship in order to trick people into attacking what is actually the most heavily armoured & hardest to hit part of the ship. This improves the mobility of the ship by removing the need to put large amounts of armour over the entire ship, and instead only needing heavy armour over a small neck structure.
2) The weapons are all forward facing, so the neck wouldn't be exposed to incoming weapons fire anyway.
3) It's designed to have other modules attached to it.
4) It's to create a choke point to make it harder for boarding parties to capture both the bridge and the drive section.
The trouble with idea 1 is that it relies on the deception being completely maintained. If their enemies ever get any data on the actual armor layout of the ship, well, dont know about you, but I'd be pumping torps into the engine section like I was trying to impress a girl.
@Richy0326
Absolutely. Maybe it's simply a remnant left over from older designs. A "traditional" way to build a warship. Conventional thinking for Klingon engineers, always with a mind toward designs that favor Klingon combat tactics. The ostensibly vulnerable "neck" is supposed to lure a foe to attack that area. That's where the Klingon's want you, going for their neck, while you get a D'k tahg to the gut. It dates back to Chontay, the ritual hunt. Their tactics and engineering was likely influenced by millenia of hunting animals that were used to killing Klingons, who had redundant organs and nerves, by going for the neck. A weak point. So their tactics would have been influenced by that, hence their whole conception of combat and engineering too.
A Klingon looks at a D-7 and says "Yeah what a great design, it just made a lot of sense at the time. Was practical".
Though another species, with different sensibilities, would have other ideas of what a ship should be. We should try and see the design, not through our own human eyes, but through the eyes of a Klingon.
Bingo. Impossible to take that bridge if it's even lightly defended.
Klingons admire cunning but loathe deception. Klingons look down on Romulans bor their constant use of trickery.
@@arbhall7572 This is the reason. That and the radiation will kill the officers when the ship is pushed to maximum capability. Remember the Klingon cloaking tech is insanely power hungry and when it is active it multiplies radiation by reflecting it back in.
I think the neck actually works perfectly with the design. It’s an offensive ship designed to attack head-on, and the great thing is that the weak-point of the neck completely disappears if you look at it from the front.
Not so much a "Well actually," but more of this view. The thinner neck area would reduce the overall mass of the D7 as opposed to a heartier section that would increase mass and reduce maneuverability. Klingon ships like the D7 and K22 Bird of Prey from what I have seen hit hard and fast, move quickly out of the enemy's main weapon arcs and position for another run.
Can't hit your vulnerable neck if you're moving too fast to hit!
@@aaronpulley7528 And maneuvering to present a minimal silhouette to the target
I play this game called Avorion, with procedurally generated ships. Sometimes enemy ships generate really thin, or with thin parts, and those parts are SO hard to hit! Drives you loony. So much that I've thought of doing it intentionally on my own player-built ships. I'm not sure it isn't as good as armor.
The neck of the constitution is even thinner lol. And theres a warpcore in there as well. Both designs are flawed, but look good.
I am sure the integrity of the core shielding was questionable and this was mentioned in an episode or film.
I think the maneuverability theory makes the most sense. We all know that Klingons value that maneuverability very highly, since they need it to bring their main forward weapons to bear. Adding more structure around the neck would only increase the ships mass unnecessarily, and increased mass slows you down again. And as you said the neck would be incredibly hard to hit in the first place, so keeping it thin could be a valid tactic to protect it. Lets say it would be 2, maybe 3 times as thick. We have seen the damage star trek weapons do to unshielded targets. It is indeed quite realistic that a hit from a strong weapon (like a torpedo) would still cut the ship in half, even with the thicker neck. So making it thinner would at that point be more useful, as it is harder to hit.
I personally dispute the "Harder to hit" point, mainly due to a scene in the Next Generation which shows the Enterprise D destroying a group of small craft very quickly, granted, since it takes place a century after the Original Series, and we never got to really see how accurate the 1701 Enterprise's weapons were, so I guess in that respect, the point still stands.
Deflector shields are the bread and butter of all Star Trek ships of all species. Without shields a ship would need heavy armor but heavy armor is no match for a salvo of photon torpedoes. Klingons used disruptor weapons to break shields. The Federation use Phasers to drain shields. When the shields are down, the fight is over except for surrender negotiations and Klingons take no prisoners. TOS torpedoes are not super accurate. They rely on massive energy release near a target to disable shields or destroy an enemy vessel.
Then you aim for the point where the "neck" connects to the "body" of the ship.
Agreed with the firing angle point; Klingon and Romulan warships are both notable for the sheer amount of forward-facing firepower they have, vs the Federation who prefers a more flexible approach (Phaser Strips over Disruptors, torpedo launchers with fore and aft mountings that feed from the same magazine).
This makes sense for a species with a strong warrior culture prone to imperial expansionism and getting into lots of fights as a stronger "broadside" helps in straight up fights vs other regional-galactic powers.
@@patrickstivers7387 In theory that's a good strategy, but the flaw is in execution. Keep in mind that at no time will you get the opportunity to fire at a fresh enemy where they will NOT have an opportunity to fire back. That's called an 'exchange'. The idea is to come away from the exchange in better shape than your foe. If you MISS, you've opened yourself up to damage to critical systems that may put you at a disadvantage later in the fight. You LOST the 'exchange'. In that case you are much better off attempting to disable a critical system in the main hull then trying to risk a 'one shot' kill.
Now, you may try some cleaver maneuvers to 'get in close' to optimize your targeting but I would submit that if a Klingon captain 'lets' you do that, he's probably baiting you. ;) Klingons are well aware of that apparent 'vulnerability' their thin neck may offer an opponent, and they will absolutely use that assumption to their advantage.
According to the FASA Star Trek material, the boom section was separable specifically in case of crew mutinies. Since all the control functions were in the boom, this would leave the drive section pretty well useless while the captain and officers escaped in the boom. The long neck might be needed to help isolate the command section in that scenario; it's easier to lock down a narrow boom, rather than a wider (and more structurally stable) section.
It's a pretty shit ship if you can only control systems from one location in a ship.
Not just an internal CIC, but even the drive section having all the machinery right there but no way to control it in case the bridge/boom section gets shot.
And the officers could order a self-destruct immediately after safe boom separation. Great disincentive to mutiny.
If you think the D7 was weak, what about the D18. It came constantly with a bent boom in the package.
It literally was like a command section attached by a space worm.
The only thing scary about that destroyer was not making it to the battle at all, "no thanks, I'll go in the K23."
@@michaelblackwell7408 I love the design of the D-10, though.
Exacty.
Let's try this: the majority of the D-7's sensors are in the forward section, so it would perhaps increase their overall effective sensitivity by maintaining a distance from the engineering section.
On a perhaps related note: if there's a worry about the D-7 boom section, then shouldn't there be a (perhaps lesser) concern over the neck which separates the primary hull from the engineering hull on the Starfleet Constitution class starship?
The neck protects the sensors up front from the radiation in the back? I like that.
Well yes - just see what happened when Khan attacked the Enterprise!
@@A407RAC Thank you. I was hoping someone besides me would bring that up.
Yes, keeps the sensors and comms as far as possible from the noise and physical shadow of engineering. Like a modern submarine the drives may create a sensor shadow. But, it probably all works together,
@@A407RAC Um, what I remember happening is Khan shooting the Enterprise neck (more specifically, in the torpedo launcher), and all that happens is a few guttering flames that are quickly extinguished and one torpedo launcher getting knocked out. No serious structural damage, no ship getting blown in half.
Seems to me that the Constitution's neck isn't nearly as vulnerable as some people think it is.
I always considered the neck to be probably like just, solid structure with a single hallway and conduit through it. You'd have an easier time damaging literally any other part of the ship. It also makes the entire bridge bulb very defensible in case of boarding or mutiny.
One thing people tend to forget about Star Trek is that being within 1light second of a ship is considered point blank in combat. Even maximum magnification isn't going to guarantee a phaser is going to hit where it's aimed. Compare to Star Wars where the Nebulon-B has a weak neck that's even more vulnerable because basically every engagement happens at visual range.
There has never been a Star Trek battle, in canon, outside of visual range.
@@drawingdead9025 Remember that the visuals can be deceiving. Most times ships are within 100,000km of each other, it's basically like the other ship is right next to them.
@@drawingdead9025 'The Wounded', tells you otherwise.
Captain Maxwell vs the Cardassian transport and one Galor-class.
Only seen on a tactical map, but clearly labelled as occurring at 10s of thousands of kilometres.
Obviously, in other cases, visuals will not match dialogue, sometimes, or could be taken as artistic licence.
Though the final battle with Reliant in Wrath of Khan sure seems intended to be very close range.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Ok, fair point.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I've assumed for a long time that the star trek version of "kilometer" was different from the kilometers on a planetary body, as often they'll say something is several thousand kilomters away but is obviously right in front of them on screen.
Enemies having to come down one long corridor to get from one end to other makes it highly defensible from the inside.
Makes sense if all the shuttlebays and docking port are on the rear sections. Made to prevent enemies from taking over the ship.
what i love about the D-7 design, especially with the original intention of the aperture in the front of the command module being a sensor/deflector dish, is that it is a design based around similar technology and "form-follows-function" principles as with the Constitution-class, but just from a different perspective. this helps solidify a sense of verisimilitude in Star Trek's made-up technology. both designs have warp nacelles, deflector dishes, impluse engines, and separate hull sections linked by thinner booms or necks. these designs mutually support each other as concurrent designs, meant to do similar things with similar technology, just from different people.
When it comes to long spindly neck pieces on spaceships, I usually think back to the justification used in 2001 space odyssey. The engines for the spacecraft were powered by nuclear reactors. To make sure the crew was safe from the radiation of the reactors, the crew compartment and bridge were placed at the end of a very long neck structure at the front of the ship, far away from the engines. (One of the easiest ways to keep yourself safe from radiation is to space yourself as much as possible away from the radiation source).
The reason Enterprise has a neck is actually saucer separation, which was conceptualized as a core part of the design before the show aired - the neck is a docking mechanism. The saucer, meanwhile, was meant to land on planets, but that never happened thanks to budget concerns.
Also in Avatar or Horizont Event. This design with a remote habitable and engine section makes scientific sense.
Insulation would do the job. You can swim in pools with nuclear reactor rods 12 meters below and be perfectly fine. In fact you are receiving less radiation as the water is blocking background radiation as well.
At least for our 21 century nuclear fuels, every 7 cm of water cuts the radiation lvl in half.
@@alanli2404
There's a lot less power in a modern nuclear reactor than there is in a Klingon battlecruiser.
That philosophy may be valid because it shows up in Event Horizon.
There is definitely a cultural element to the design of the D-7 (and all Klingon ships) in that their leaders "lead from the front", and why you have the "Klingon promotion" trope. This can also see this in the comparative layouts of the bridges of the Enterprise and a D-7.
On the Enterprise, Kirk sits in the middle of the bridge where he gets input from the various stations ("let us all go together").
On a D-7, the commander sits by himself out in front of his crew ("FOLLOW ME!")
There also could have been material shortages that warrant such a thin neck, or mass requirements that must have been obeyed during the design phase to maintain acceptable levels of maneuverability
My own pet theory is that at the time of TOS, the Klingons had been suffering an extended period of economic decline. Finding ways to make do with less would be high on the agenda.
Personally, I think this style comes from several factors.
1: culture. KIingons seem to like the vague triangular shape. It can be seen in their cloth patterns, buildings, and even weapons.
2: battle tactics. Klingons favor a hit and run style combat VS a straight up brawl. In a hit and run style combat, having MORE ships, but weaker overall is an advantage. Not to mention a overall, per ship economic savings, thus allowing you to build more ships than of a more 'robust' design.
Lastly. Weapon power! Much like today's navies. Heavy structural design just isn't feasable given the energy output of the weapons... So why bother with the time, energy, and costs of a more structurally robust model, when a single Torp will still 'Scrap' it?
YES! They operate in 'wolf packs' of three ships, not independently like the Federation does, and as I said, they are all about warping in, and striking quickly to disable a foe. The high maneuverability design, and low profile is all about letting them get off better in that 'first exchange'.
I think that it may also just be designed after a native "crane-necked" predator bird on their homeworld. And they're figuratively riding it into battle. 🤷🏽♂️
Cranes on Q'onos are ten feet tall and carnivorous.
I used to think it was a cultural thing…..it would force a Klingon crew to face enemies head on. No neck vulnerability if you approach the enemy aggressively.
...No neck vulnerability from running away either, so probably not cultural given what we know of Klingons 😆
@@pills- Actually there would be a neck vulnerability given that most Klingon warships lack dorsal or ventral weaponry to keep an enemy from sweeping in from above or below as they withdraw.
Good point. Can't shoot the neck if you can't see the neck from your angle.
Now looking at Starfleet ships, one might assume they would point the ventral side towards the enemy to protect the bridge at the top, but that exposes their nack and engine compartment.
Your 3d models are really cool. I love all the added detail.
Wish you could make some TMP ships next
Oh yeh!
I love this ship design. It looks very menacing and maneuverable standing still 😍
I totally agree, I’ve ALWAYS dug this ship!
I always thought it had something to do with the sensors. While the Star drive section may not have put out enough radiation to effect the crew, it may have been a source of interference for some of (but not all) of the sensory systems.
love your d7 model. keeping that shiny 60s silver look, makes it very reminiscent of soviet MIGs. someone pointed out to me that even if you take the head of a D7 your still left with a formidable body section which can still fight.
A lot of the extended lore for Star Trek seems to imply that spaceships rely entirely on their structural integrity field to keep them in one piece during maneuvers and combat. The SIF is basically just artificial gravity cranked up to hundreds or thousands of Gs to hold all the bulkheads and frames in place with tremendous force. As long as the field is intact the ship is extremely sturdy, to the point where the shape of it can be any ridiculous flight of fancy. Once the field goes however the ship is only sturdy enough to stay together while maneuvering under thrusters, and any serious weapon would simply vaporize it anyways. That's at least my sort of headcanon explanation for why sometimes weapons shoot holes in ships and sometimes they vaporize them without even leaving any wreckage.
This, absolutely. Armor is a pointless concept even on a contemporary ship, much less a science fiction spaceship.
@@hansmeier8953 Not really true, Armour on Space ships makes sense because you are not limited by mass as much. You can have literal meters of armour thickness in space and it will not hamper you as much as you might expect. With that much mass even energy weapons are going to have trouble getting through it. The main reason you see little armour in Trek designs is that their version of FTL depends on ships mass to a rather large extent. There is also the fact that Trek weapons tend to be very low yield compared to a lot of other sci-fi IPs, so basic energy shielding is enough to defend yourself.
Starfleet ships frequently encounter and explore new phenomena - weird anomalies, strange radiations, exotic conditions and emissions - so some reinforced layers of armour plating and raw physical mass seems prudent. "Engines down, power banks depleted, computers offline, we've lost all power" seems to be said far too often.
But Klingon ships are built to confront, attack, and chase enemies. They need effective defenses against whatever kind of stuff their enemies are shooting at them. But otherwise they need agility and firepower more than they need hard defenses. If structural integrity fields suck less power than hauling all that extra mass around then they'd favour it.
@@pwnmeisterage You would think that about Fed ships, and yet when you see the breakdown they barely have enough material to maintain structural integrity in space. Add to that all the windows that are made out of see through aluminium (How they created that is anyone's guess) and they have next to no armour on any of their ships till the defiant class.
Well ACTUALLY! ...I got nothing. One thing I just thought up is that it is a deliberate bait for the enemy, making them think that it's a weak part and going for it and suddenly the D7 turns to face the enemy and fire a devastating barrage at them.
The bait thing works once.
It's for improved weapon firing arcs. If you ever played Star Fleet Battles, one advantage of the design is that the weaponry in the boom can fire in almost 360 degree arcs. Less weapons are needed due to the improved firing arcs. The forward phasers can fire directly to the rear also. Fewer weapons with improved firing arcs uses less power. In the game, Klingons are the only ones who can charge all their weapons and maintain a very high speed. They can use high energy turns, which are energy intensive, while charging all weapons, if you give up overloading your disruptors, or move at a slightly lower speed. Also extra power for electronic warfare systems (my favorite thing).
In the game Starfleet Battles the long neck is used to explain why the phaser's have extended arcs that can reach across the hull from one side to the other.
I'm a player. Yes you are correct. It's for improved weapon firing arcs. If you ever played Star Fleet Battles, one advantage of the design is that the weaponry in the boom can fire in almost 360 degree arcs. Less weapons are needed due to the improved firing arcs. The forward phasers can fire directly to the rear also. Fewer weapons with improved firing arcs uses less power. In the game, Klingons are the only ones who can charge all their weapons and maintain a very high speed. They can use high energy turns, which are energy intensive, while charging all weapons, if you give up overloading your disruptors, or move at a slightly lower speed. With the extra power, ecm and eccm become a major tool for the dance of death.
I've been trying to work the radiation hazard angle too, but there's an internal consistency problem that the Federation also places the shuttle Bay in the engineering section, same as the Klingons. I could buy that maybe the engine techs simply wear heavier protective clothing than would be practical for the command staff, but why subject your shuttle techs to the same hazard. Then I had a thought this morning, radiation could be the reason for the neck/boom design but not for health reasons but instead to reduce interference for the computer and sensor systems. That seems to check out across both Federation and Klingon designs.
The shuttlebay on Enterprise could easily be shielded, since it is in the section farthest aft: just add a single wall with special shielding components, or even forcefields.
The reason Enterprise has a neck is actually saucer separation, which was conceptualized as a core part of the design before the show aired - the neck is a docking mechanism. The saucer, meanwhile, was meant to land.
I feel another reason for having a thinner neck is the fact the D7 uses a lot of front facing weapons, so to keep a already fairly wide design from being even wider the neck design is made to hide behind the front head while attacking, the thinner front silhouette allowing for less chance to be hit by enemy fire
It's for improved weapon firing arcs. If you ever played Star Fleet Battles, one advantage of the design is that the weaponry in the boom can fire in almost 360 degree arcs. Less weapons are needed due to the improved firing arcs. The forward phasers can fire directly to the rear also. Fewer weapons with improved firing arcs uses less power. In the game, Klingons are the only ones who can charge all their weapons and maintain a very high speed. They can use high energy turns, which are energy intensive, while charging all weapons, if you give up overloading your disruptors, or move at a slightly lower speed.
I always thought it was because the front of the engineering section had lots of forward facing weapons on it and it had to have a long neck so not to obscure firing arcs
Waay back in the early days of Trek conventions (mid-70's), I remember there being speculation that the neck of the D7 might contain the deflector/shield system machinery for the ship and it being the thinnest hull area, is where the system was connected directly to the hull plates.
This was even reinforced in the K'tinga class with all the greeble's added by the SpFx crew for TMP.
I heard somewhere.. read? that the forward section was also capable of being used as a life pod/life boat? of sorts.
However such a design would be able to mount other equipment in a module design such as a troop pod along side of this long spindly neck.
You even point out that ships are supposed to be partly modular in star trek.
I think psychology and culture would've had a big hand in the design. Klingons are definitely not stupid and the weapons forward design suits their way of thinking, hit hard while you face your enemy. The neck probably allows for agility in warp speeds and maybe even sublight allowing them to bring their weapons to bear quickly.....maybe?
The skinny neck also keeps the ship's overall mass down, allowing them to keep it fast and nimble. Klingons seem to favour fast, manoeuvrable ships after all which is extra important considering they tend to have all their main weapons focusing forwards, so they have to be able to come about fast if they get outflanked.
I just want to say that your 3d modelling, as well as shaderwork (including the warp bubble one) is pretty good :)
Great video! I love this ship design, which is one of the reasons I preferred playing Klingons in SFB. Anyway, I can definitely see the design being a result of multiple factors mentioned here. In particular, perhaps Klingon warp engines were less efficient (at least initially) so having a more warp-geometry friendly design was important. Adding to that, you want to keep the mass down for a variety of reasons (particularly maneuverability, so you use the boom design rather than the Imperial Star Destroyer wedge design. This takes less materials, of course, so they're cheaper to make as well. I'm just rambling. :) Thank you for the video! Loved the 3D design as well.
It's for improved weapon firing arcs. If you ever played Star Fleet Battles, one advantage of the design is that the weaponry in the boom can fire in almost 360 degree arcs. Less weapons are needed due to the improved firing arcs. The forward phasers can fire directly to the rear also. Fewer weapons with improved firing arcs uses less power. In the game, Klingons are the only ones who can charge all their weapons and maintain a very high speed. They can use high energy turns, which are energy intensive, while charging all weapons, if you give up overloading your disruptors, or move at a slightly lower speed.
there is a reason why on a klingon ship the engineering section is called the reactor pit.
It's a pit of radiation.
Your radiation theory is now my head cannon for the discovery klingons.
Love your models. Pity Paramount seems so... GRUMPY about more ambitious fan projects.
I'd always figured the neck was an intentional weak point so the crew could, in an emergency, evacuate to the sombrero and jettison in case a warp core breech.
Sure losing is dishonorable, but know what's worse? Losing your seasoned war veterines to an engineering accident rather than battle.
Plus it may well have been that from a cultural perspective the captain MUST be at the fore of the ship as they face their enemies and building the bridge into the body of the craft would feel like both trying to be cowardly hiding among the defenses and leave the bridge vulnerable to a mutany.
After all it is established that murdering the CO is a viable way to advance in rank. So having a bridge that has a natural choke point makes sense if you don't ENTIRELY trust your crew.
This also could allow the ship to separate into two pieces, so that the enemy has two opponents with weapons to face. Now I'm wondering how to say "Saucer sep" in Klingon.
heh heh.. the "Sombrero"
Is that Klingon for "immediate evacuation!"? I guess in proper Klingon it would be So-bre-O
I have a fan generated plan of the D-7 I got in the 70's. The main hull was engineering and enlisted crew quarters with officers in the forward section. The best description I have seen of Klingon society is the novel, The Final Reflection, and I think the ships show the society's warrior attitude.
There was a Star Trek novel that had the boom section separated from the main hull but connected by a fiber optic cable allowing the two parts to operate together in attacks.
Another potential reason for that shape is that it's a very "predatory" look and puts some intimidation factor into play whilst making the most of the comparatively limited resources the Klingon Empire has or had for building ships and after a while became a somewhat traditional starship design from the early D-series cruisers to the D7 and K'Tinga through the Vor'cha and Negh'var.
They said in Star Trek: Enterprise that the front of Klingon ships are the heaviest armored parts of the ship. Its fools attackers into thinking the "head and neck" section is vulnerable, when they are actually the strongest and most heavily armored.
This is the theory I had with the USS Vengeance Bridge, that it looks so open and weak but it's the most shielded part of the ship aside from the warp core/ engineering. So you would fire at the bridge and not at the weapon systems or anything else crucial.
@@JTkirk21508 - it's same rule that Batman has in the comics. He puts a big bat on his chest as a way to draw attention and taunt attackers into shooting his chest. But the chest is actually the most heavily armored part of the Batsuit.
@@TheBigExclusive He be playing chess not checkers.
Originally the forward Torpedo port was a deflector…. It later became a Torpedo port…. a big one.
You can see it looking the same in the AMT model from the 70’s. I recall it because I put it on backward… sticking out as a thumb…
Years later my model making improved….
Also when the D7 was used by the Romulans it was referred to as a bird of prey by both sides ! To me kind of funny because it was made to look like a goose ! Typically a prey menu item ! Still they always look cool when they fly together !!!
Still the coolest design of all the fictional starships. I've heard its design was inspired by the manta ray, just backwards. The boom corresponds with the manta's tail. The neck makes just as much sense as putting the bridge on a Federation ship exposed on the top center of the primary hull, as if making it a bullseye. Ships in the Star Trek universe rely entirely on shielding, which makes perfect sense considering the power of phasers/disrupters.
The ship design may have also been partially inspired by the Martian war machines from George Pal's *The War of the Worlds.*
One exception is the Federation-class dreadnought. The bridge is nestled within the primary hull, making for an extremely difficult target. My father had the deck plans for this class and I spent hours going over everything.
perhaps it's just simply because the klingons designed the cruiser to fight head on (hence the forward heavy disrupters.) and thus the profile makes more sense, if they are shot head on the head protects the neck and the distance from the main hull provides some protection to the warp core due to the distance from the main body of the ship.
The sensors are the most logical reason to me. Mounting them as far forward as possible would considerably reduce any blind spots caused by the mass and radiation from the warp nacelles. The ability to see any threats would be top priority in a combat vessel.
Thanks for the video!
I used to think that the reason for the long neck on the D-7 cruiser was that the Klingon senior officers in the command section wanted to separate themselves from the enlisted ranks in the main engineering section in case of mutiny. The long neck had a corridor with several guarded checkpoints to make sure that only those with the proper clearances were allowed to proceed to the command section to carry out their orders.
I've been leaning towards the theory that the boom-section is not as delicate as it appears. It could be a solid rod of neutronium or something incredibly strong.
I always thought that the the neck was designed to separate the engine section from where the officers were stationed. I imagined that the warp core was more rudimentary and radiation leaks were common causing crew exposure.
It would be nice to have new lore saying that the klingons invented ship separation making two ships to fight. A small maneuverable head separating with the main body escaping with essential cargo or information to the klingon empire escaping to give to leadership. Also a ship without a neck that is much weaker could be a precursor that needs the neck to fix design flaws unknown to the regular fan.
Good to see you doing these videos again! 👍😀 always liked these and you do such a great job!!!
I saw an interesting perspective for this design ages ago that I quite like: The ship is designed to always face towards it's enemies, like the Sontarans from Dr. Who, this idea makes sense when you consider all the heavy weapons are facing forward too and enemies cannot hit the neck from the front view.
That's a reasonable assumption but you could face the enemy with a thicker boom as well
It would be cool to do a episode on all the D7 variants from the FASA Star Trek.
BattleTech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception, Still have the game on my C64
Bravery/Honor definitely plays a roll in this. Crew in the fore section and bridge are right up front as close to battle as possible in a seemingly more vulnerable part of the ship. There are likely multiple things going on here; tradition for example, but this idea of riding into battle in an extended fore reaching part of the ship is likely something going back well in their history. It may even go back to pre-space naval days.
Klingons also like both ramming and boarding. The shape of the bow of the D7 has a very ram friendly design, and you could impale the ship pretty deep into far larger enemy vessels pretty easily and literally empty the entire fore crew and all the officers into an enemy vessel with Batleths. This feature alone seems like something right out of Klingon Naval history. It also explains why the whole section can be detached so easily, as another benefit would be that you could drop the entire front section if you cannot back out of a rammed enemy vessel.
You Nailed It. Star Fleet Battles detailed this extensively. Many D-6 / 7 class were 'penal'cruisers, urilizing convicts as well as subject races as secondary crew. Separation and isolation of access points were key in minimizing threat of mutiny. Having just 1 turbo shaft down the neck gave the Imperial Klingons in the 'head' some safety.
from a few of the star trek books, the design was in part the Klingon officers lead from the front, and claim the glorious first kill. putting the bridge as far forward as possible, keeps the officers up front...
This makes the most sense to me as well.
Honor through glorious combat is their first priority above all other considerations. I can completely see how they'd sacrifice engineering logistics for displays of bravado. In fact.., I've never figured out how the Klingons managed with their barmy culture to achieve space travel at all, let alone internal combustion or, say, basic plumbing, but hey, "sci-fi", right? Star Trek would be a far lesser thing without the Klingons.
K'Plah!
What about looking at the Khitomer class Battleship?
One of the points to take into consideration is the culture behind its design.
Klingons favor bold, up-front engagements, and as such their ships are primarily tuned and known for their massive front-facing firepower. This leads to reason that the neck was rendered so thin because its shape was not a critical factor; look at the ship from the front, and all you'll see are the pod and the drive section, while being in the direct line of fire of its disruptors and main torpedo launcher. Any strike from a different facing would (in their eyes) mean that the ship was out-maneuvered or out-matched by either a superior or dishonorable foe.
You can find similar structural arrangements on other klingon ships, especially bird-of-preys, who are especially known for their more hit-and-run tactics relying on massive burst of frontal damage and then rapidly maneuvering away from the engagement to recloak and prepare for another strafe run.
The D7 could be an offshoot of this, focusing on higher thruster maneuverability and precision to maintain constant frontal contact with their target while eschewing some of the more sophisticated cloaking systems of the nimbler bird-of-preys.
An interesting thought, actually. People get so used to Federation thinking of arrays that line of sight for weapons is not as important. But for an ambush predator like a Klingon ship, with 80% of their fire power forward, and from fixed heavy disruptor cannons with limited traverse, a small forward section maximizes the firing arc of those weapons.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 it is why i take huge issue with how discovery and jj-trek presented both klingon and federation ships.
the ultra-organic shapes of klingon ships in both discovery and jj-trek are a huge and anachronistic departure from what is known to be the klingon style, hell even ST:ent knew better.
for federation ships, the first time i saw the concept art for discovery i was like "that looks like an hybrid between a D7, a romulan warbird and a constitution rather than a proper starfleet ship"
I remember reading back when the show was in its first run that the D7 was intended to look like a snake, so it has a long neck. It was also intended to be light and very maneuverable with little science ability. Just attack and raid whatever the captain feels like.
Well actually if the forward pod was used as an escape pod then I can understand
Escape pod. How would you like to be the Klingon Commander that goes back to the High Council and say, "I used my escape pod to run away from the Kirk." :)
When I was a kid watching TOS reruns, I associated the Klingon species name with the structural design of the D7. To me, the dual lower nacelles looked like they could "cling" onto another object or ship.
I've always loved the classic ships from the TOS era. The D7 is the best of the Klingon ships in service. An oldie but a goody no matter which century.
An additional factor is any weapons implacements mounted on the forward pod have considerably greater firing arcs available by having the pod mounted to such a structure. The main body of the vessel, with its nacelle mounted primary forward disrupters and aft torpedo launcher, delivers all its weapons fire along that axis only. Secondary disrupter implacements, say under the bow corners of the pod's triangular hull section, provide extensive lateral firing coverage. The D-7/Katinga's boom structural weak point is also comparable to the Constitution's structural weak point of it's thin connecting neck. Both design elements that would be perminantly phased out of all subsequent starship classes within both navys beginning with the very next ships designed to replace them.
Iconic if nothing else
In the very first TOS technical manual that forward tube was labeled as the deflector. Makes sense since there's no other deflector dish that would permit warp speeds. Although it looks very weapon-y I was always a little disappointed when they started shooting torpedoes out of it in the movies.
I always wondered about aspects like that of different scyfi ships and you backed up the only real theory I had. I hadn't thought about the maneuverability aspect but it kinda makes sence
Many, many yeard ago, I saw a blueprint arguing that the length of the neck functions as a type of radiator or thermal dispersion system with active liquid cooling -- it is designed to serve the high-thermal-output systems such as engines and weapons. The device within, reaching along the length of the neck and back into the primary hull, was a closed circuit labelled as the intercooler. The image was part of the screensaver “Scotty’s Files,” one of the many Macintosh screensavers under the name “After Dark."
its been quite a while but i think i remember seeing d7 in fleet ops game retrofitted for utility usage with neck holding cargo compartments along its length. Like a two trains, each on its own side, going parallel with neck. each train wagon as compartment that could potentially carry troops, resources or whatever is required of it.
I came across your channel, very well done indeed. When I saw the modelling and maps, it reminded me of Starfleet Command Gold and Orion pirates PC game. Fired those up again and can get my fix for Trek with that while I watch Discovery and Picard. Any videos planned for that old Starfleet battles and the game canon along with FASA? I have 3 of the recognition manuals, and there is an updated site that covers that FASA stuff.
They could also just be built for head on attacks thus hiding the neck. This kind of links up when you realize all of its weapons are pouting forward or back, places where the neck isn’t really visible
My thoughts align with your conclusion. Weapons are so powerful that a ship that loses it’s shields will sustain heavy damage, armor only able to mitigate and delay the eventual destruction. This “reality” allowed designers to have freedom to create intimidating ships that make a statement.
Great video. Cheers! 🖖
According to Memory Alpha the D-7 has a crew of 430. Most of the rear hull is machinery. If you look at the leading edges of the rear hull you will notice a grill covering that front of the hull just inboard of the warp nacelle pylons. Those are supposed to be Bussard collectors that neck down to connect to the impulse engines. The D-7 is supposed to be able to skim a gas giant to refuel.
The front of the Enterprise warp nacelles were supposed to be Bussard collectors.
Another reason could be that of the modular and neck separation could be that of how some military vehicles are designed. For fast repair so the Klingon ship yards could have stocks of drive section and head parts so for speed of repair if a ship comes in with a damaged drive they can just swap it over then the turn around of repairs are faster or cannibalise one ship to get another one back in the fight.
I think the "Protect against mutinies" angle fits well for the imperialistic Klingons depicted in the TOS.
I do also like the idea that sensitive equipment like scanners and computers would be placed far away from the interference of the reactor, and the maneuverability enhancement is just a welcome side-benefit. And once the system works...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
As for it being a weak-point...nearly all hull damage in Star Trek is catastrophic, whether your ship breaks in half or not. And is it really all that worse than the connection to the federation saucer section, or the long pylons to their warp nacelles?
I'm glad to see you're still making videos. I loved your Cloakshape fighter from the Star Wars universe. Would you consider doing a Lancer-Pursuit ship if you haven't done so already?
I don't know if this is true in Startrek but the command section could be separated from engineering section due to the radiation interfering with the sensors in some way. This would make sense if the Klingon sensor technology was inferior to the federation at this point in time. Therefore having a long neck could provide better situational awareness at the cost of structural integrity.
It's a fantastic design. All the ships in TOS look great, especially the movies. I really don't care for the flatter, thicker designs they go for in the later shows.
the origional Design was to have the forward pod as a swappable module simmilar to the Nebula class "Sensor Pod" A concept addressed in several tech manuals printed in the 80's this allowed for the drive to be mass produced and the forward pod determined if they were a recon ship or a battle cruiser. this concept was continued to a lesser extent with the Bird of Prey design and even the Vor'Cha Class cruiser which was designed to have the forward pod having field seperation. (I'm guessing the theory there is having the forward disruptor cannons and torpedo launchers detatchable in order to lay an ambush when approperate it just turns out there was very few times for that tactic on screen until DS9 and by then they moved on for ship Ideas)
A Warrior must always face his enemies. Their ships are designed with that philosophy in mind and have a very small silhouette from the front and back to minimize their attack profile. The larger ships directly face their targets and have strong forward shields to draw the attention of enemies while the smaller ships use strafing attacks. As a result all their ships emphasize front and sometimes rear weapons to attack. They have almost zero consideration for defensive tactics.
Great video, thank you. I forget whose theory it was (Spacedock, Trek Yards, etc) but I like the idea of the "head" needing to be forward of the rest of the ship because it had two vents that needed to blow exhaust clear of the ship. It's not a strong theory but I like it since it makes a use for the grill like details on the model.
DS9 was the catalyst in showing the vulnerabilities of Klingon ships, but that was mostly from large scale battles where smaller ships could swarm a D class. In one on one, it takes much more skill to even attempt to exploit their perceived weaknesses than multiple ships ganging up on one.
I'd like to see a D7 Battlecruiser face off against a Nebulon-B Frigate from Star Wars.
They're both fan-favorites from their respective franchises, are similar in both size and tonnage (the Nebulon is slightly larger), and both have similar structural weaknesses (i.e. two hull sections connected by a long, thin tube-like bit). If we assume the weapons, sublight engines and shielding systems are of close-to-equal power (admittedly a point of contention amongst fans), it'd be quite an interesting encounter. Also, each ship has an ace card the other lacks: The D7's forward-fixed heavy disruptor cannon vs. the Nebulon-B's ability to launch starfighter squadrons.
A bit late to the show I admit, but, I offer another posability. One that was mentioned in, I think star fleet battles, or something, its been a while so parts of my memory is fuzzy about it. Part of the original model design, the neck being like that, also alowed the forward section of the ship to be a giant lifeboat. The explody stuff was all in the engenearing section, thus in the event of the risk of the ship blowing up, they can evacuate to the head and excape, same for battle damage, if the ship took a lot of damage, the forward section, being a smaller target has a better chance of serviving, thus saving personal.
I really like your breakdowns of these designs. Someone could look at these ships and outline all the ways they think that the design is stupid, but you take the time and ask "Why would it be designed that way?" in an impartial manner and I really appreciate it.
As for the D7, my first thought years ago was that a single corridor is an excellent choke point in the event of mutiny on the crew deck and the officers could hold the command structure indefinitely (provided it has independent power and air from the drive section). More recently, with this video, I had a thought of this being a corridor for the torpedo magazine instead of a weapon mount.
The torpedo magazine would be located in the drive section, where the munitions would be most protected along with the ship's power plant. In this way, it would be less likely for the magazine to cause secondary explosions in the event the command section were hit while unshielded. When the torpedoes were needed, they would be sent down the corridor to the torpedo room to be loaded and fired.
My personal theory is that the starship shields work both ways, blocking fire from both direction. Right before a ship open fire, it’ll have to temporarily lower their shields right around the path of fire, then re-raise them back up. The weapons module there could have its own shields system, which means that when the main weapon is firing, it only needs to lower the shields just for that part, while keeping the shields around the engineering section still active. This way they can keep shooting even when they are being fired upon.
In TOS, where the design came from, ships didn't fight like they did in later series. They stood off at range and exchanged fire instead of closing to a point blank dogfight. The D7 would have likely pointed itself head on at the target while firing from a few thousand miles away. That protects the neck, gives the enemy a minimal profile to shoot at, and puts that deflector dish in line to help protect against any return fire. Add to that the fact that the hull of the ship was not going to offer much protection against a warship which could both launch 4 antimatter torpedoes at a time, each with a yield of 20 megatons, and fire a volley of phasers which likely had a similar damage output. In short, if the shields were up you were good, if they went down it didn't matter how thick the neck was, your ship would die. When the movies and TNG came out, they had more money for special effects and started having the ships fight in close range slugfests, because it looks better on screen. Incidentally, the Constitution Class likely fought head on and slightly nose up for the same reasons. That seemed to be what was shown in TOS too.
I would have desinged it with a tapering neck to add structural support and add an overpowered warp core so the extra power is put to structural integrity and forward shielding having a sensor tie in so the excess shielding is already facing the opponent and have a near overload max setting on every disruptor bank
Klingon starship crews are mostly Servitor Races and thus the boom is the officer's lifeboat in case of mutiny; it's also often used as a lifeboat in the case the main drive section is destroyed or heavily damaged in battle.
Modular construction techniques. The main hull, boom and pod are constructed separately and mated at the end. This would allow for easier and quicker post battle repairs.
Or it’s for the security of the senior officers, Klingon crews are known to move up the ranks by challenging a senior officer. This design allowed the senior officers to shut a mutinous crew of conscripts off in the back of the ship and deal with them later
I've read in various technical manuals that it is believed the Klingons, since much earlier models like the D-3 and D-4, crammed as much (inefficient) engine as they could into the ships while also crammed full of weapons and armor. Thus they reduced things like internal radiation shielding and had issues with damage/danger in the engineering sections. Thus they kept senior crew and more sensitive systems at a 'safer' distance from the rear. Similar to what you've mentioned.
When I was a kid I used to think that was called the "hall", and that any time Klingon ships took significant damage it was a "hall breach".
Wow....really thorough. I grew up in the TOS Era and we had the FASA and SFB universes to gather our "facts" from. The video basically hits all the main ideas we had back then on the design concept per Josef/FASA/SFB...etc.... The earlier ships had the same layout, so it was not D7 specific. The detachable boom was thought of as a result of design - not a reason for it. Not clear if it was an escape resource, or more of a last weapon of desperation. Instead, the aft hull, when damaged could give off radiation, so the officers were kept separated. Klingon vessels were expected to always be facing the enemy - and that is how the weapons worked, so forward shields were extra heavy and rear shields were rather weak (Ex. SFB) - since they would almost never be exposed (Klingons never run). Getting a clear shot at the neck would be hard enough and then the heavy shields would block the shots. Klingons don't "broadside" like federation ships do. Also, with the center of mass way behind the boom, small maneuvers of the aft hull would make quick maneuvers at the tip of the boom (the business end so to speak). Lastly, yes, there were SFB kinglon ships that used a very heavy energy weapon powered from the aft hull through the neck and out the boom. But as the video points out, the hole is not in line with the aft hull. It's a fun speculation - and I like how the video keeps a little bit of history (Canon be darned) alive.
The forward pod is forward for the same reason why a buckler is held forward and a Federation primary hull is forward. It puts the fore-shields even more forward of the nacells and helps to protect something that absolutely has to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere. If the marines are kept in the back, it also helps to ensure they'll suffer less damage before they beam over.
Since we've only seen (or heard) of this sucker in one-to-one combat (it's not until the movies that multiple ships work together as a unit), Klingon battle-doctarin might be similar to Federation. That is, when absorbing hits, put your most protective face toward the enemy and not the bit that has the blow-y-up anti-matter in it or your run-away tools.
The high moment of inertia (is that what it's called?) helps to keep the front part towards the enemy.
This would reinforce the idea that Klingons value risk-takers by putting the naval crew in front of the rest of the ship forcing them to have risk before their boarding parties did.
in the jeffries drawings the "torpedo tube hole" spot at the front was actually a deflector dish emplacement for the d7. secondly if combat was taken at actual space combat distances rather than the visual distances seen on film the thin boom of a neck isn't that much of a weakness and is that much less of a target area to hit.
if they are attacking someone head on then the boom is also not visible at all to who's being attacked. also as the main drive area has the antimatter, then keeping the VIP stuff like important leaders and main weapon arrays further from a possible big explosion does mean they have that much more chance to survive and carry on fighting at a later date, as small of a chance that would be in an uncontrolled antimatter/matter reaction.
I always considered it like the Normandy from mass effect all the manual controls were in the neck section so an officer can look over them without an obstructed path
I would be interested in seeing a detailed look inside that front bubble; from the top bridge, to the lower bubble.
My first thought, as I began to contemplate the question posed by the title of the video, is that the design is meant to protect the command section. Assuming in most battles, shots are taken at range against rapidly maneuvering opponents, it will be rare to target specific sections. You just shoot at the center of mass of the target. With the command section held away from that center of mass on the long boom, it's much less likely to be hit, protecting your command and control.
The maneuverability and warp field shape are the most likely reasons, but I don't think the radiation theory makes sense. However, having a lower-class of Klingons as crew in the aft section, whether or not they are slaves, does make sense if the higher-class of officer Klingons want to be able to scuttle a renegade crew in the aft section. I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that!
Most of the early books mentioned that Klingon warp cores had a radiation problem and that the long neck was to create separation from the engine plant.
In the SFU the boom and pod section were designed to separate in emergencies, much like the saucer on the Enterprise-D. As you mentioned, the boom has it's own impulse engines. In the event of separation, the most important officers are evacuated to the boom, and the servitor races go down with the engineering section. Also, the Klingon design aesthetic is based on the body shape of a respected marine predator on the Klingon homeworld.
Long time player of Star Fleet Battles (SFB) here. SFB was developed out of the original series and makes use of the concept of the Klingons as a conquering race. With that as the basis, the idea of subject races and lower ranked Klingons being in the rear section takes a slight turn. This is seen in two manners. The first being that the ships include Security Stations in several locations. The second being that the boom and forward section can separate from the rear. Together they serve a protection from mutinies.
Real nice rendering of a D-7. I read somewhere that it had something to do with upper and lower shield strength, as it was assumed that when the D-7 finished its run it would either break to the left or right, with a change in angle of attack (going up or down) but I am not sure. This, along with the maneuvering theory makes sense to me.
Klingon vessels are primarily made to face the enemy in combat so the large front section actually hides the neck against enemy fire (at least anything that travels in a straight line such as beam weapons). The neck may be a vulnerability but it's not really a massive problem based on the way that they fight.