it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the reason your comment is the top one is because these are all the people from acolytes of horror :P /another acolytes of horror fan
6:38 " I’d want to live with the Horgas ?" I think that’s going too far... feels like she didn’t watch the movie properly. It’s one thing to watch a movie, and romanticise a culture after one improper viewing. Great analysis as always Emily !
Yeah I was really surprised how many people had a positive impression of the Hargas, without critically assessing all their actions in this film. Thank you so much for watching!
That person hadn't even watched the film to the end. She hoped the protagonist would end up with one of the members who is sacrificed in the final scene.
i totally agree, they probably watched a different movie x_x Hey you know who did watch the movie and made a super long and super in depth analysis (Like 5-hr long)? Novum, now that guy's an academic at this point xD go check him out, might like it!
When I watched it- I mostly just took it as a cult, I don't even think in the movie they call themselves Pagan. I didn't even read in the description that they were Pagans until I saw this video and went to look myself...
It reminded me of Steiner schools actually. Christian with pagan elements, and originally with racist beliefs (according to Steiner facial and bodily features are connected to someone's character)
Hey! Practicing druid here! Loved this video! I really enjoy folk horror but you're totally on point about representation issues. I mostly just see horror as a funny pastiche of what other people think of when they imagine pagans, but I do also agree the harm is there when people take art too literally. Thanks for sharing your perspective and I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
This is an amazing analysis, not only of MIDSOMMAR, but of the use of Paganism as the stock Antagonists in your film. And great research too. You hit upon so many points.
You've made such excellent points! I was quite disappointed at Midsommar's representation of paganism, and after hearing the theory that the cult is actually just white supremacy dressed up in a mishmash of pagan aesthetics, I concede that while Aster did a great job portraying the indoctrination techniques of cults -specifically the cult of white supremacy- I wish he hadn't used paganism to do it. The world already has a religion that has operated much like the Hargas for 2000 years, after all. Speaking of which, huge congrats for getting out of the evangelical nightmare. My family dabbled in it off and on during my childhood, so I know exactly what you mean about the uncomfortable prayer circles and how much the Hargas reminded you of the whole experience. I've had to step back from religion, but from what I know about paganism and the various paths therein, they've always seemed so much more sensible than the more convential religions. The way they're portrayed in movies is a singularly christian point of view, one that hasn't changed at all since christianity began spreading in europe, demonizing the pagan religions and warping it all into something inaccurate, sinister, and just… empty. That's the feeling I get from the "pagans" in these movies. Like flat cardboard stage pieces for a children's play. A real shame. Anyway, great video!
This is a great analysis. It does bring up some great questions about the almost hivemind-like presentation of the Horgas. Even though, the insinuation is that shared goals and drugs are what manipulate most of the people there, it seems to ignore any character development within the villagers that would imply a degree of humanity or questions relatable to the cast of visitors. Even in the movie "The Hills Have Eyes", there was at least one dissenter. But I suppose sometimes you forgo logic for plot convenience.
I understand the term "Pagani", simply meant someone outside of the center town. In latin, Pagani, simply meant - Someone outside of town, or outside of mainstream culture. Richard Rohr wrote somewhere that the Pagans were simply people that did not conform to Christian values and often lived outside of their communities,. Sadly, the term "Pagan" has led to very derogative themes as outsiders usually have dealt with..
I clicked on the video thinking "THIS IS WRONG HOW CAN YOU DISLIKE MY FAV MOVIE" but I have to admit you have a point. Changed my mind! While I don't agree that this is misrepresentation (and I believe you can do whatever if it's fiction), it's not really up to me to decide that, since I don't belong to this community. Your thoughts are totally valid and I understand know how misrepresentation can ruin movies for pagans like you. Good luck with your channel!
Pagan here, and lover of some of these films. I can’t tell you how much I love your video. I think your criticisms are fair and well presented. I wish writers would stop relying on lazy assumptions and stand-ins that signal badness and otherness to the audience. I do want pagans to be portrayed better, but I think Midsommar attempted to do exactly that-in a weird, usable way. Hear me out: I think Midsommar uses the paganism aspect differently than the other films. I think Aster uses paganism to make the Hårga seem quaint and harmless. So much of the beginning brings up the idea of an escape to an Eden, the white 70s flower child, the harmless hippie, the nature lover, the recreational psychedelic user. These days, I think when a lot of people in the west see white paganism, that’s what they see-at least if you’re cottagecore instead of goth. Silly and naive and quaint. Aster slips the evil in slowly, in little bites, in some that people don’t even recognize because they’re too fast or they’re written in Swedish. The best way for a dangerous cult to keep surviving is an outward appearance of mildness and kindness. We see it all over with Christian cults (major names, which I won’t bring up here). They’re very kind-until they’re not. While it’s frankly not realistic that the cult was pagan, I think it’s almost easier to believe the Hårga to be harmless when they’re introduced as nature-loving sun-worshipers who dance and do drugs and laugh.
You have to remember, Ari Aster is a Jew. So it’s no surprise he’d want to demonise Northern European Paganism. Could you imagine a film where a group of evangelical Christians travel to Israel, only to be ritually sacrificed and baked into matzo bread? That’s a film I’d like to see!
Something I think worth bringing up, is the Hergas link to white supremacy. The vague pagan symbolism, the segregated work of men and women, the table shaped like the Othala rune (a symbol of homeland) which is often used by neo-nazis to represent an ethnostate. The way they treat the whole community like an organism that must be homogeneous and free of degenerates (anyone unable to contribute, aka old people) to function properly. The fact that only the white people brought into the commune were used for breeding! I'm a pagan myself, and I agree that with you that the actual beliefs of the Herga are so vague that you can't even tell what sort of path they're on. They never even mention a deity for instance. That, and their indoctrination techniques really reminded me of white supremacist dog whistles. I think the rituals were deliberately kept vague in the movie to invoke this.
I know, how DARE those freaks want to...live in a normative functioning community like every other group...? Also, being around "racist twitter" for a while, I've never seen anyone talk about sacrificing old people lol.
im personally a pagan witch who is still a beginner. im lucky enough to be in a household where i can openly practice but my dads side of the family is christian. i love horror and comics and you have inspired me to make a comic about a pagan witch with the christians as the antagonists. as u said pagans and witches are so attacked and in my experiences its usually people of christian beliefs. anyways thank you for the idea! love ur video :DD
im over here from acolytes of horror, so glad to see more videos exploring these topics! i personally loved midsommar and i grew up surrounded by a lot of wiccan and pagan culture, but it did feel weird how the harga functioned more like a christian religious group than anything id seen anywhere else; i also love the joke of 'midsommar said girl power' but... ppl who take that totally unironically i fear may have missed the point of how the harga's love was not genuine and if dany didnt submit they probably would have harmed her too ok anyway i love your video, really great writing and excellent editing!!
I know I already commented, but may I just say, that I very much respect you. These are things that I had said to my husband about the film, immediately after seeing it, and he agrees. You are observant, critical (with actual reasons) and articulate in a way that I feel isn't common anymore (unfortunately). Based on this alone, I am subscribing. It is rare that I find someone that I feel I could actually be friends with and share intelligent conversation.
Love this analysis of paganism in tv and film. The portrayal in Sabrina really annoyed me - an atheist! It seems such a tired way of portraying something far richer. Portraying cults? Yes. Go do that horror, just not pagan.
Especially when Sabrina used our terms for holidays (Samhain for Halloween, but pronouncing it sam-hane of course)! They picked aspects of different Pagan cultures (Yule, another example), applied it to Satanism, then made Pagans the villains?? Make it make sense.
I came across this video while researching Midsommar, after hearing a description about it on my school's list of Hallowe'en movie recommendations. Now, I don't watch horror movies, and I've definitely never watched a folk horror movie, but quite honestly, I am offended by this portrayal of paganism. I think there are far better ways to portray paganism in media (Avatar (the alien movie) did an excellent job of this). Although I would recommend steering clear of "pagan protagonist Christian antagonist" just to avoid backlash from the Judeo-Christian community (not that I have any say in this since I don't plan on being a movie director anytime soon), I definitely agree that we need more media portrayal of pagans as something more than evil cults that work as a group to accomplish some sinister, manipulative goal.
I'm so grateful that Accolytes of horror gave a shout out to your video. It was so interesting and I really learned a lot of things I didn't knew about paganism. Plus thanks for the movie recommendations. 🙆🏻♀️
Hey, it's Will from Twitter! I didn't know you were a Pagan, I'm actually Pagan too! Really impressed how knowledgeable you are on the subject, found myself nodding throughout the video when you were going into how the film really dismissed the individualist aspects of Paganism. Halloween 6: The Producer's Cut actually has a Pagan single dad protagonist. I don't know if you've seen that movie, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. There's a lot of inaccuracies there (not to mention an unambiguous villainous Pagan cult, but I think their motivations are at least fleshed out) but it was pretty cool having a Pagan hero (played by Paul Rudd!) in a slasher movie and I think they handle that aspect pretty interestingly. Consider me a fan and subscriber! Also, thank you so much for acknowledging that Christian was raped and ultimately punished for it. That was one of the aspects that really turned me off the film.
This is excellent, Emily. Your analyses are outstanding and I found this very enlightening. I was particularly fascinated to hear about your experiences with the Evangelical church, and could so easily imagine the emotional and spiritual claustrophobia. Also, the link to human sacrifice was quite the aha! moment. But what will stay with me is this idea of pagans as allowing true diversity of beliefs and practices within the self-identified group. I've been talking a lot about feminism with a friend of mine and about the way that each wave has ultimately fallen away because the movement struggles to maintain diversity of opinion and practice. I felt how much better it would be (for more political and spiritual movements too) if the trope of real paganism was portrayed more widely, to give us an alternative to the great divide between individualism and hivemind. We need that so badly.
Your a practicing pagan? That's awesome! Would you like to to a mini video series on your particular path or practices? :) Currently delving into Celtic druidism and I'm very intrigued! Also: love your video essays so much
Thank you ^^ My video essays are a real labor of love, so I'm always glad when people like them! And I've thought about talking more about my practices, maybe in a vlog series?
This was amazing and went so in-depth. The pop-culture idea of paganism is greatly influenced by Abrahamic religions and I think a lot of people even pagans actually have an internalized view of paganism or what paganism is like and looks like based on the media portrayal (I know that when I was a younger baby witch I was very much inspired by Charmed, though I know it was fiction and 90% was made up). In one of the covens I was in, I did experience more of cult-type of behaviour, when the leaders didn´t really allow others to participate that much or have their say and I was part of it when I was in a bad mental state and eventually had to leave when I realized it wasn´t good for me. The next time when I participated in rituals was through an open-coven and it felt different because no one was better than the other. The ideas with cults, it´s often about the money or about the egos of those who lead them. The idea of paganism or any spiritual path or religion is to give those moments of self-enlightenment and strengthen your personal connection to whatever it is that you believe in. It is not about mentally breaking the person or humiliating them and make them suffer, but that often seems to be the case in films like Midsommar. I like how you pointed out these films about individual growth through faith. To be honest I haven´t come across films like that about paganism..or Christianity or any other religion either. Yes, I have seen films with Jesus suffering (is this something that horror films are also intertwining) but less about spiritual growth or enlightenment.
This is a fascinating video, I loved hearing your views on folk horror from a pagan perspective. Well done for mentioning Equus. The 70s was the decade of folk horror. It's kind of funny that this very British subgenre from 50 years ago should form the inspiration for exciting young American filmmakers like Ari Aster and Robert Eggers. Another great folk horror movie that everyone seems to have overlooked is The Shout (1978). It is haunting and strangely beautiful. Please check it out!
I really enjoyed this breakdown. It was a very interesting take that I don't see much via YT recommendations. My one critique is pointing out the characters from Sabrina aren't Satanists - they're devil worshippers.
Thank you!! And thank you for pointing that out - I have also recently learned that there is subtle difference. But of course that is why I did not cover portrayals devil worship in my research, so I could avoid discussing a topic I lack experience with! ^^
@@Emiloid No worries! A lot of people don't know there's a difference and it's understandable why. Heck, the only reason I know is because one of my friends in HS was a Satanist lol. When she "came out" to me, she allowed me to ask a bunch of questions because she knew I was genuinely curious (I identified as a Southern Baptist at the time) and not disrespectful. I'll never forget that day!
As a person who is not exactly a Pagan in truest sense but a Hindu (many rituals, many Gods and commonalities with Pagans), thank you for making this video. For many years I watched my religion getting demonized by Western media (like Indian Jones etc.). Many thanks for addressing this
Great video and I love that you're a practicing Pagan so you have real knowledge of the subject. While I enjoyed the film I can agree with you on some points. For example when people talk about it being "an empowering story of seperation from toxicity" but in reality she is being brainwashed very clearly. Gaslighting plays a huge part for poor Dani and she doesn't stand a chance against this new and seemingly welcoming community. I enjoy psychedelics so that was a big draw for me as well as the cult experiences, I'm fascinated by it.
This was incredibly researched and I really appreciated the new letterboxd list for "Midsommar Research" that you basically created for me. Also, and I mean this as genuinely and sincere as possible, If you want to see better Pagan representation, you're gonna have to create it yourself.
i think it's kinda terrifying how many people think that this was empowering or that it had a happy ending. i still don't understand how they can think that.
It's interesting to see how different religions are portrayed as villains, and what we have to unpack from that as a culture. Muslims are usually antagonists in action movies, in the very vague but threatening role of the foreign terrorist. Pagans are "assigned" to horror, as this video covers thoroughly, and christians get the bad guy role in scientific explorations as the institution trying to stop knowledge, although less often and in less "grandious" or even scary ways. If you want to get specific, different movies with evangelic themes, especially historic ones, also tend to use catholics as their villains... Granted, there's times when that last one is justified, but it's still interesting to see. Jews get represented a bit differently - mainly through a set of characteristics (greed, mischief, physical appearance, you get the gist) applied to a villain, instead of direct insinuation. More eastern religions however, mainly hinduism and buddism, I see barely represented at all, if we exclude the "wise stereotypical monk"... I guess I don't really have a point here for the moment, I just thought it incredibly interesting. Certainly something to keep in mind.
I’m glad you made this video. I, myself, was raised pagan and I enjoyed _Midsommar_ but I also felt kind of icky about it. Not so much for the fact that it portrayed paganism inaccurately or even maliciously but because of how those sentiments bleed into the public’s already uneducated opinion about paganism. Also as a person with bipolar disorder I think Ari Asters’ films are super compelling but that he has some problems with using mental illness and disability for its shock factor which has some kinda harmful implications.
Thank you for this video! When I first time watched Midsommar, I couldn't help feeling odd about how grossly they've misrepresented pre-Christian, non-Abrahamic faith of the Ancient Norse. Not only that, but of all non-Abrahamic, pre-Christian faiths. I'm a Hindu from Bengal, who believes in our ancient Gods. We've gotten our fair share of gross misrepresentation, so I immediately felt for Norse Pagans
I'd love to hear more about paganism and more positive portrayals of pagans in pop culture media. This was a great essay, I learned a lot! Edit: I didn't finish the whole video before commenting so I missed you actually listing good examples of paganism in film! Still!
I liked your analysis of Christian because it was close to mine, though I found him, not a full blown asshole, but a bit of a one. My reasoning is that Dani is hanging out with three young guys. I mean, where are her girlfriends for her emotional support? She has none. I feel, after four years, Christian has been burdening the weight of Dani's emotional neediness and it has drained him of almost any love or empathy or sympathy he has for her, though at times he still shows it but probably more out of duty.
For TH-camrs I highly recommend Harmony Nice, Scarlet Ravenswood, the White Witch Parlor. For writers I recommend Scott Cunningham and Vivianne Crowley. I haven't personally read this one but I've heard Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions is also very good
I'm a Pagan & I wasn't & never have been offended by these types of movies. From a writing standpoint, which I'm coming from because I am a writer... Paganism & witches are easy targets for horror fiction because it's not mainstream, it's the Occult, which means it's easy to make that shit scary. There are plenty of Christian-based horror movies too. If there was a horror movie about REAL Paganism & witches no one would fucking watch it because it would be boring as shit.
Thank you for this amazing video. I just happened across it while searching TH-cam with keywords 'pagan scholarship'. I have been a Neopagan for over 25 years, and an initiated Witch (using capitals to denote my religious orientation) 21+ years. Excellent deconstruction. Midsommar left me feeling disjointed, and you told me why. Now I'm thinking about writing a horror story where the protagonist is Pagan and the villains are from a Christian cult.
Excellent video! I really appreciate that you stand the ground and reject this cultish depiction of paganism in art, however, I’m not certain whether our modern western interpretation and practice of pagan religion can be enough of an argument to change the historical paganism perception. Our modern individualistic society produced modern paganism, but even to this day people in non-western countries live as close communities where everyone and their dog knows your every move, so Midsommar is not far from possibility of such society to become a cult. We cannot hide ourselves from the past, we need to accept it and move forward to be better than our ancestors.
As a norse pagan I loved it, then again I loved the Wican man. I actually personally think less of pagans who are offended by it, much the same for people who admire and horgas.
Great insights into the topic of pagan representation! As a European atheist myself, I hadn't thought about that perspective at all. For me, the Horgas were simply a fictional representation of an indigenous European cult, which I think is part of the genius of Midsommar. The film avoids very American discussions of race and focuses the viewer's attention on the willful suspension of common sense and secular, rational thinking (of course, it also critiques this basic attitude of secular rationalism and open-minded relativism - exposing it as ignorant in the case of our American student protagonists). That's why I think the choice of a native (pagan, if you like) European setting is quite brilliant. Although I understand the frustration with this folk-horror trope of evil pagans, I think Midsommar used it quite perfectly! In the end, the people who romanticized the fictional Horgas really fell for Ari Aster's trap. They are the other side of the coin to the ignorant people who get their ideas about modern paganism from a folk horror film! PS: Your point about pagan gods in Supernatural is valid, but I would argue that angels or even God aren't really portrayed sympathetically either :) Representation is a tricky thing and you can never please everyone, but I am sympathetic to your cause and would like me some evil Christian cult film next! Cheers!
i know it was said that paganism in folk horror has a trope of being collective-focused, but The Wicker Man has a reasoning behind the use of the trope of focusing on the collective. to put it as briefly as i can without writing an entire dissertation, towards the end of the movie right before Howie is sacrificed, Lord Summerisle states the fact that Howie wins too by dying because he is made a martyr in the Christian pov (specifically Scottish Presbyterian for Howie). and Summerisle wins because he and the townsfolk have Howie as the fool-king-victim bringing in the crops. both perspectives tie into one archetype that's used in myth in every human culture which is the hero/king/fool sacrificing themself for an ultimate good for the community. a win-win for everyone, for both Christian and pagan
Love! This made me think a lot, I had a similar experience in church. I also feel like Midsommar relies on ideas of white supremecy (on purpose) idealizing the past and pagan traditions, but I mean, their desire is never authentic so I get how that would be misleading. Equating paganism with white supremecy, which only idealizes and doesn't practice their version of a "fictional pagan past" is an interesting cinematic choice but doesn't seem to really be about paganism. Not sure if that makes sense?
You are so right. We don't know how old the "scriptures" or limns of the Hargas in the film actually are. The power elite/elders may be gaslighting everyone else into believing their uber organized structure as a people. The group is extolled over the individual. For all we know, this is the first 90-year celebration to which the village and visitors are treated. I loved the movie, however, not the least of which are the questions that you raise in your video. Ari Aster created a bizarre world in existence for--how many years?
from someone that knows nothing about paganism , after watching this film i came to the conclusion that this group are not an average pagan group. more a cult i would not have a negative view of modern paganism.
In defense of Midsommar, being one of my all-time favorite movies, I don't think it meant to represent Pagans or Paganism. It's about a murderous cult and about brainwashing, hence the hive mind of the Hargas. Paganism just seemed to be the backdrop for the story. It could have just as easily been about the cult of Osho, Scientology or some business-model MLM cult (maybe not so much about murder but for exaple, about fraud). I've recently been researching Paganism more and am utterly fascinated and inspired by it.
I have that same necklace except the stone is amber lol :) And unfortunately, I live in what some people call the "Bible Belt of California" and learned to not put pagan bumper stickers on my car if I wanted that car to continue to function properly. You're right, we isolate for a reason. I just watched Midsommar for the first time yesterday and thanks to TH-cam's algorithm I've watched several videos breaking it down but thankfully only came across one that just assumed all Nordic symbolism was inherently Nazi-related. As if the Nazis came up with the runic alphabets by themselves or some such nonsense and not because they appropriated freaking EVERYTHING. I don't get actively angry or offended when I see pagan religions portrayed poorly in films so much as I get annoyed that the tropes still exist and if I'm watching something with people unfamiliar with anything pagan, I have to explain things YET AGAIN. And that's assuming that I think I can explain things without getting piled on by pearl-clutching Christians, especially if those Christians are in a position of power over me. Anyway, rambling comment over! Great video and great necklace :)
Why am I just now finding this awesome channel?! That was an excellent break down of Midsommar, and even better than that, an outstanding insight into what real paganism is! I'm excited to watch more of this channel and see what other gems are hiding out here 👏👍
I think the entire thing is meant to be allegorical. It's about the end of a relationship. The rest is just setting. As a fledgling Norse Heathen, the religious beliefs in this movie seem like a mishmash (I think you said as much early in the video) of various things. There's nothing about it which makes any sense, other than the stuff about the cycle of life, which is very general and part of many pagan spiritual paths. I enjoyed Midsommar, but as a representation of paganism, it's a mess. I don't think this movie is mainstream enough to harm outsider views of pagan paths. However, it's bizarre how they kind of plucked elements various paths, invented even more, and ended up with a fictional religion which doesn't feel remotely authentic.
Thank you for this analysis. As someone who's on the left hand path and eclectic wiccan witch (I follow majority of the wiccan religion except I don't believe in the harm none rule and the rule of 3) and to me it's almost laughable at this point how often these horror movies associate paganism and witch craft with evil lol Even dark magick gets very unfairly demonised by these movies never mind our gods and goddesses (just look at how the world has demonized Lilith Hecate and Isis and having worked with all 3 it's sad how so far from wrong the modern world is about these 3 goddesses tbh). Never watched midsommar but honestly after what I heard about hereditary but tbh after Chilling adventures of Sabrina I'm so over non pagans/witches using us in their stories without understanding shit about our beliefs and practices.
Oogh! You recounting your experience in the christian community hit really close to home with my childhood. Up into my highschool years I experienced a lot of manipulation and gaslighting by my Methodist church. It was a really rough transition entering into adulthood and until my early 20's I had to battle with a lot of anger over that indoctrination.
I feel like with how horror uses Christianity in sacrilegious ways constantly, one movie using paganism in a way not aligned with actual paganism is just par for the course. Horror largely focuses on twisting Judeo-Christian notions.
I love analysis. Also I’m writing pagan characters in my book, how they are powerful empire, but many people thought all them to be terrible people, but they are aren’t. They are a peaceful religion. This is like more in the vein of Ancient Rome.
Some monotheists seem to have no concept of an individualistic spirituality. Personally I feel that spirituality stagnates without the individual touch.
OMG this right here I was very uninterested in intimate acts for reason of staying pure and ignoring passing ideas or questions of the "loopholes" I ponder on All I was met with was guilt confusion and confrontation of not surrendering enough to a higher power that at times seem to care very little of me and from my view point the ones who was in touch followed the values less than me, So yes I constantly thought of Christianity while watching this the cliff jumping I seen as baptizing as in both violent acts are wipe clean by a ritual practice.
I really enjoy your analysis. In fact, the movie works hard to represent how ritual works and the anthropology of experience. And I think that Aster also portrait a mirror portrait of two different cultures and show how both of them could be insensitive and manipulative.
I recognize that Pagans are portrayed very similarly across films and that often it is a rural human sacrifice cults, and that it can be hurtful. I love these films as a genre, and can't really comment on how legitimately problematic portrayals are, but I do think there's an important aspect to the best films of the genre: they portray an isolated remnant of an unusually dark faith. They aren't a widespread menacing monolith a la Blood Libel. I think that counts for something.
Supernatural does not accurately represent Christianity. I did not expect it to, but I am very offended they were not more considerate. Also, the South Park depiction of Jesus Christ has a lot of aspects that are not consistent with the Bible. Please make a video on this! Thanks!
there's no real proof that the ättestupa ever happened. just a bunch of old wives' tales about large cliffs. it actually could've just been a way for christians to basically say that norse mythology was to be avoided to all the christianised kids
Well my own way in paganism is completely different from Emily, and it's more connected with the philosophy of traditionalism and folkish way, but - I'm in 100% agree with all arguments of this video. It's real that in our modern world (in Kali-yuga as we traditionalists say) the pagan way for the person - is completely Individual way, but of course somewhere maybe there is so totalitarian collectivistic groups (as pagans as non-pagans I suppose) still for me it is individual again. Second thing, I don't think that our pagan ancestors had that manipulating techniques in past years. It's point for big lecture. p. s. sorry for mistakes in English, everyone hi from Russia.
I am a Pagawic, which is my personal pagan and Wiccan identification. I did not like this movie at all. I found it the usual portrayal of seeing paganism as some sinister belief, like in the Burning Man movie. I don't see any of what they did in this movie, showing Paganism in a good light. It was the continual treatment that Earth religion is evil. This is to me the usual Christian way of villainizing anything that is not Christianity.
I am not an expert of . . . well anything, so I can’t say what is and what isn’t accurate in this flick, but to me it felt like the director had thrown a hodge podge of stuff he read about various pagan stuff over the world throughout time and threw all of it together. And doing so made it all seem really, unbelievable? So I ended up not caring. And yeah, I had no sympathy for the characters. Empathy, but once those old folks threw themselves off the cliff and they STUCK AROUND, I was done. But I’m glad there is a successful director with a voice out there. Great vid
I respect your point of view despite not agreeing with you on an ideological standpoint, however i have two things to add to it in regards to christianity (this is gonna be long by the way): • Christ gave His life in exchange for forgiveness of our sins, the romans killed Him, a portion of hebrews that followed Him did snitch on Him, however the religion of christianity is mostly about respect, devotion and (platonic) love as Christ preached • by 2021 the christians are always depicted as murderous biggots (ironically, that goes against the teachings of Christ) forming a cult that persecutes minorities, it's always the same cult, like you said about the generic pagan cult in movies, the only safe strawman to attack in media nowadays is christianity. Though the whole thing about love and respect i mentioned earlier is the actual doctrine, many people twist that to their own benefit, it happened to you, i don't deny it doesn't happen, don't get me wrong, it's sad that happens, and while i can't take responsibility for what the christians you met did, i can sympathize with you, i'm sorry for what you have been through, it must have been terrible, but i reinforce what i said before, christians are not being portrayed as the good guys anymore, content creators are using a strawman of medieval catholic church being used nowadays, it's not like that, i mean, who fucking persecutes minorities and burn them in public places like in a thousand years ago? That doesn't happen and yet, christians are depicted like that, there are multiple branches of the thing (i am a methodist, some people in my family are baptists, other are catholic) they all have a different interpretation of the Bible and the doctrines, Luther did go through ALL the trouble of translating the Bible from Greek/Hebrew languages so it could be more accessible to the masses, but if it serves as something, that misinformation media portrays both christians (as the medieval catholic church, even if outside of catholicism no other branch uses of imagery) and pagans (as demonic cultists aloof from reality) are wrong, and they happen, it's sad, and a bit ironic, that the ones who preach respect are the least respected...
Catholic here, finally, reading this comment section reminds me why the teachings of Christ is true. There is no forgiveness in these hearts nothing but vile hatred and crying how they are look down upon. Lots of these people want to write straw mens. My family is from Mexico, the Aztecs were pagans and they sacrificed man, women and CHILDREN. Human sacrifices happened in some pagan religions, I saw videos of “witches” grave robbing coffins for human remains.
@@MrSophire *and they sacrificed man, women and CHILDREN* "The Cathars were attacked first by the Albigensian Crusade and later by the Medieval Catholic Inquisition, which eradicated the sect by 1350. Many thousands were slaughtered, hanged, or burnt at the stake, sometimes without regard for whether man or woman or child."
As someone who once identified as a Pagan and who is starting to explore that path again, I loved hearing your thoughts on this topic! I especially liked what you said about the freedom Paganism gives you to find your own way with spirituality. I think that’s what draws me to it. Haven’t seen Midsommar yet, but I thought it was interesting that you thought some of the tactics the characters use in the movie were closer to examples of Christianity than Paganism. I hadn’t thought of it that way until now, so thanks! Your last point was especially good. I agree that there should be a more diverse representation of Paganism in movies. I think that while this would certainly help people outside of the Pagan community have a better understanding of what it’s all about, it would also be a great service to those who already identify as Pagans. I know for me this would help me better process my own sense of Paganism and what aspects of it I most connect with. Great video, and blessed be! 💚
Thank you so much for watching, and for your kind words! I definitely agree that diverse representations would help Pagans think about what defines them, and why they've come to paganism in the first place. Blessed be!
Pagans are not an organized religion--no Pope, no recognized 1 bible.... There must be differences, especially between pagans across the pond from each other. The Catholic Church (in reality a business with secrets and morality problems) has one person the religion deems "infallible on church doctrine." And we've had plenty of films (one Oscar winning) pertaining to the fallibility of parish and school priests who have broken taboos of children and sexuality. It makes no sense to me (raised Catlick) to compare cults--and not all are "pagan"--to each other for similarity. All cults are not pagan.
@@robby7499 Your "religion" is full of grown children playing Dungeons and Dragons. If you want me to believe you're legit, then how about you curse me? Fill me up with black magic, why don't ya? Come on, put a spell on me, Merlin
@@officialtoddhoward69 Your bad relationship history is not an excuse to demean other people's spirituality and beliefs. Please take your childishness and bigotry someplace else - therapy maybe?
this is so good!! i’m a big fan of horror so i love hearing any commentary on the genre, and i especially loved hearing yours. i’m also a big fan of NOT disrespecting peoples’ faiths, so folk horror’s pretty significant issue with misrepresenting paganism has nagged at me since i first got into the genre. and the comparison of christianity to the way the cult in midsommar ran REALLY resonated with me. i grew up christian and went to a retreat three times three consecutive years when i was in junior high, and shit felt like a cult at times. if midsommar centered around christianity, that would’ve felt more grounded in reality to me and i think much more relatable to current audiences since christianity is one of the largest religions in the world. great video!!
I definitely didn't see this film as a representation of pagan religion lol. I just saw it as a cult, that maybe used some elements of paganism but was ultimately an entirely different thing
You got a shoutout from Acolytes of Horror.
Amazing video with well-explained arguments.
I came here from his annihilation video too!!
Same - and glad I did. :)
it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the reason your comment is the top one is because these are all the people from acolytes of horror :P
/another acolytes of horror fan
6:38 " I’d want to live with the Horgas ?" I think that’s going too far... feels like she didn’t watch the movie properly. It’s one thing to watch a movie, and romanticise a culture after one improper viewing.
Great analysis as always Emily !
Yeah I was really surprised how many people had a positive impression of the Hargas, without critically assessing all their actions in this film. Thank you so much for watching!
@@Emiloid It says a lot about how effective cult manipulation techniques are that the film kind of inadvertently indoctrinated viewers as well
That person hadn't even watched the film to the end. She hoped the protagonist would end up with one of the members who is sacrificed in the final scene.
i totally agree, they probably watched a different movie x_x Hey you know who did watch the movie and made a super long and super in depth analysis (Like 5-hr long)? Novum, now that guy's an academic at this point xD go check him out, might like it!
When I watched it- I mostly just took it as a cult, I don't even think in the movie they call themselves Pagan. I didn't even read in the description that they were Pagans until I saw this video and went to look myself...
It reminded me of Steiner schools actually. Christian with pagan elements, and originally with racist beliefs (according to Steiner facial and bodily features are connected to someone's character)
Wow. This was so damn good.
Thank you, I'm so glad you liked it ^^
Hey! Practicing druid here! Loved this video! I really enjoy folk horror but you're totally on point about representation issues. I mostly just see horror as a funny pastiche of what other people think of when they imagine pagans, but I do also agree the harm is there when people take art too literally. Thanks for sharing your perspective and I look forward to seeing more of your videos.
This is an amazing analysis, not only of MIDSOMMAR, but of the use of Paganism as the stock Antagonists in your film.
And great research too. You hit upon so many points.
You've made such excellent points! I was quite disappointed at Midsommar's representation of paganism, and after hearing the theory that the cult is actually just white supremacy dressed up in a mishmash of pagan aesthetics, I concede that while Aster did a great job portraying the indoctrination techniques of cults -specifically the cult of white supremacy- I wish he hadn't used paganism to do it. The world already has a religion that has operated much like the Hargas for 2000 years, after all. Speaking of which, huge congrats for getting out of the evangelical nightmare. My family dabbled in it off and on during my childhood, so I know exactly what you mean about the uncomfortable prayer circles and how much the Hargas reminded you of the whole experience. I've had to step back from religion, but from what I know about paganism and the various paths therein, they've always seemed so much more sensible than the more convential religions. The way they're portrayed in movies is a singularly christian point of view, one that hasn't changed at all since christianity began spreading in europe, demonizing the pagan religions and warping it all into something inaccurate, sinister, and just… empty. That's the feeling I get from the "pagans" in these movies. Like flat cardboard stage pieces for a children's play. A real shame.
Anyway, great video!
This is a great analysis. It does bring up some great questions about the almost hivemind-like presentation of the Horgas. Even though, the insinuation is that shared goals and drugs are what manipulate most of the people there, it seems to ignore any character development within the villagers that would imply a degree of humanity or questions relatable to the cast of visitors. Even in the movie "The Hills Have Eyes", there was at least one dissenter. But I suppose sometimes you forgo logic for plot convenience.
I understand the term "Pagani", simply meant someone outside of the center town. In latin, Pagani, simply meant - Someone outside of town, or outside of mainstream culture. Richard Rohr wrote somewhere that the Pagans were simply people that did not conform to Christian values and often lived outside of their communities,. Sadly, the term "Pagan" has led to very derogative themes as outsiders usually have dealt with..
I clicked on the video thinking "THIS IS WRONG HOW CAN YOU DISLIKE MY FAV MOVIE" but I have to admit you have a point. Changed my mind! While I don't agree that this is misrepresentation (and I believe you can do whatever if it's fiction), it's not really up to me to decide that, since I don't belong to this community. Your thoughts are totally valid and I understand know how misrepresentation can ruin movies for pagans like you. Good luck with your channel!
This was fascinating!
Thank you!
Pagan here, and lover of some of these films. I can’t tell you how much I love your video. I think your criticisms are fair and well presented. I wish writers would stop relying on lazy assumptions and stand-ins that signal badness and otherness to the audience.
I do want pagans to be portrayed better, but I think Midsommar attempted to do exactly that-in a weird, usable way. Hear me out:
I think Midsommar uses the paganism aspect differently than the other films. I think Aster uses paganism to make the Hårga seem quaint and harmless. So much of the beginning brings up the idea of an escape to an Eden, the white 70s flower child, the harmless hippie, the nature lover, the recreational psychedelic user. These days, I think when a lot of people in the west see white paganism, that’s what they see-at least if you’re cottagecore instead of goth. Silly and naive and quaint. Aster slips the evil in slowly, in little bites, in some that people don’t even recognize because they’re too fast or they’re written in Swedish.
The best way for a dangerous cult to keep surviving is an outward appearance of mildness and kindness. We see it all over with Christian cults (major names, which I won’t bring up here). They’re very kind-until they’re not. While it’s frankly not realistic that the cult was pagan, I think it’s almost easier to believe the Hårga to be harmless when they’re introduced as nature-loving sun-worshipers who dance and do drugs and laugh.
You have to remember, Ari Aster is a Jew. So it’s no surprise he’d want to demonise Northern European Paganism. Could you imagine a film where a group of evangelical Christians travel to Israel, only to be ritually sacrificed and baked into matzo bread? That’s a film I’d like to see!
This was genuinely a very pleasant watch. Subscribed!
Something I think worth bringing up, is the Hergas link to white supremacy. The vague pagan symbolism, the segregated work of men and women, the table shaped like the Othala rune (a symbol of homeland) which is often used by neo-nazis to represent an ethnostate. The way they treat the whole community like an organism that must be homogeneous and free of degenerates (anyone unable to contribute, aka old people) to function properly. The fact that only the white people brought into the commune were used for breeding!
I'm a pagan myself, and I agree that with you that the actual beliefs of the Herga are so vague that you can't even tell what sort of path they're on. They never even mention a deity for instance. That, and their indoctrination techniques really reminded me of white supremacist dog whistles. I think the rituals were deliberately kept vague in the movie to invoke this.
I know, how DARE those freaks want to...live in a normative functioning community like every other group...? Also, being around "racist twitter" for a while, I've never seen anyone talk about sacrificing old people lol.
im personally a pagan witch who is still a beginner. im lucky enough to be in a household where i can openly practice but my dads side of the family is christian. i love horror and comics and you have inspired me to make a comic about a pagan witch with the christians as the antagonists. as u said pagans and witches are so attacked and in my experiences its usually people of christian beliefs. anyways thank you for the idea! love ur video :DD
Oohhh that sounds fantastic, I'm flattered to have provided you some inspiration! Hope you'll come back to share what you come up with ^^
Imagine doing shit with the devil 🥶
@@Muh290 i dont believe in the devil lmao
@@bloodandgutz how are you a witch then or are you the type of witches who don’t use black magic
@@Muh290 im a pagan witch
im over here from acolytes of horror, so glad to see more videos exploring these topics! i personally loved midsommar and i grew up surrounded by a lot of wiccan and pagan culture, but it did feel weird how the harga functioned more like a christian religious group than anything id seen anywhere else; i also love the joke of 'midsommar said girl power' but... ppl who take that totally unironically i fear may have missed the point of how the harga's love was not genuine and if dany didnt submit they probably would have harmed her too
ok anyway i love your video, really great writing and excellent editing!!
I know I already commented, but may I just say, that I very much respect you. These are things that I had said to my husband about the film, immediately after seeing it, and he agrees. You are observant, critical (with actual reasons) and articulate in a way that I feel isn't common anymore (unfortunately). Based on this alone, I am subscribing. It is rare that I find someone that I feel I could actually be friends with and share intelligent conversation.
Excellent video, and I love your Oh My God, It's Burning! poster.
Love this analysis of paganism in tv and film. The portrayal in Sabrina really annoyed me - an atheist! It seems such a tired way of portraying something far richer.
Portraying cults? Yes. Go do that horror, just not pagan.
Especially when Sabrina used our terms for holidays (Samhain for Halloween, but pronouncing it sam-hane of course)! They picked aspects of different Pagan cultures (Yule, another example), applied it to Satanism, then made Pagans the villains?? Make it make sense.
I came across this video while researching Midsommar, after hearing a description about it on my school's list of Hallowe'en movie recommendations. Now, I don't watch horror movies, and I've definitely never watched a folk horror movie, but quite honestly, I am offended by this portrayal of paganism. I think there are far better ways to portray paganism in media (Avatar (the alien movie) did an excellent job of this). Although I would recommend steering clear of "pagan protagonist Christian antagonist" just to avoid backlash from the Judeo-Christian community (not that I have any say in this since I don't plan on being a movie director anytime soon), I definitely agree that we need more media portrayal of pagans as something more than evil cults that work as a group to accomplish some sinister, manipulative goal.
And I completely agree with you about the Wicker Man. Summerisle and the residents feel authentic, as do their beliefs.
I'm so grateful that Accolytes of horror gave a shout out to your video. It was so interesting and I really learned a lot of things I didn't knew about paganism. Plus thanks for the movie recommendations. 🙆🏻♀️
Hey, it's Will from Twitter! I didn't know you were a Pagan, I'm actually Pagan too! Really impressed how knowledgeable you are on the subject, found myself nodding throughout the video when you were going into how the film really dismissed the individualist aspects of Paganism.
Halloween 6: The Producer's Cut actually has a Pagan single dad protagonist. I don't know if you've seen that movie, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. There's a lot of inaccuracies there (not to mention an unambiguous villainous Pagan cult, but I think their motivations are at least fleshed out) but it was pretty cool having a Pagan hero (played by Paul Rudd!) in a slasher movie and I think they handle that aspect pretty interestingly.
Consider me a fan and subscriber!
Also, thank you so much for acknowledging that Christian was raped and ultimately punished for it. That was one of the aspects that really turned me off the film.
This is excellent, Emily. Your analyses are outstanding and I found this very enlightening. I was particularly fascinated to hear about your experiences with the Evangelical church, and could so easily imagine the emotional and spiritual claustrophobia. Also, the link to human sacrifice was quite the aha! moment. But what will stay with me is this idea of pagans as allowing true diversity of beliefs and practices within the self-identified group. I've been talking a lot about feminism with a friend of mine and about the way that each wave has ultimately fallen away because the movement struggles to maintain diversity of opinion and practice. I felt how much better it would be (for more political and spiritual movements too) if the trope of real paganism was portrayed more widely, to give us an alternative to the great divide between individualism and hivemind. We need that so badly.
This is so mind opening and I really love how you voice your thoughts on this topic!
Your a practicing pagan?
That's awesome!
Would you like to to a mini video series on your particular path or practices?
:)
Currently delving into Celtic druidism and I'm very intrigued!
Also: love your video essays so much
Thank you ^^ My video essays are a real labor of love, so I'm always glad when people like them! And I've thought about talking more about my practices, maybe in a vlog series?
This was amazing and went so in-depth. The pop-culture idea of paganism is greatly influenced by Abrahamic religions and I think a lot of people even pagans actually have an internalized view of paganism or what paganism is like and looks like based on the media portrayal (I know that when I was a younger baby witch I was very much inspired by Charmed, though I know it was fiction and 90% was made up). In one of the covens I was in, I did experience more of cult-type of behaviour, when the leaders didn´t really allow others to participate that much or have their say and I was part of it when I was in a bad mental state and eventually had to leave when I realized it wasn´t good for me. The next time when I participated in rituals was through an open-coven and it felt different because no one was better than the other. The ideas with cults, it´s often about the money or about the egos of those who lead them. The idea of paganism or any spiritual path or religion is to give those moments of self-enlightenment and strengthen your personal connection to whatever it is that you believe in. It is not about mentally breaking the person or humiliating them and make them suffer, but that often seems to be the case in films like Midsommar. I like how you pointed out these films about individual growth through faith. To be honest I haven´t come across films like that about paganism..or Christianity or any other religion either. Yes, I have seen films with Jesus suffering (is this something that horror films are also intertwining) but less about spiritual growth or enlightenment.
This is a fascinating video, I loved hearing your views on folk horror from a pagan perspective. Well done for mentioning Equus. The 70s was the decade of folk horror. It's kind of funny that this very British subgenre from 50 years ago should form the inspiration for exciting young American filmmakers like Ari Aster and Robert Eggers. Another great folk horror movie that everyone seems to have overlooked is The Shout (1978). It is haunting and strangely beautiful. Please check it out!
They made Pagans into horror villain's by making them act like Christians.
I really enjoyed this breakdown. It was a very interesting take that I don't see much via YT recommendations.
My one critique is pointing out the characters from Sabrina aren't Satanists - they're devil worshippers.
Thank you!! And thank you for pointing that out - I have also recently learned that there is subtle difference. But of course that is why I did not cover portrayals devil worship in my research, so I could avoid discussing a topic I lack experience with! ^^
@@Emiloid No worries! A lot of people don't know there's a difference and it's understandable why. Heck, the only reason I know is because one of my friends in HS was a Satanist lol. When she "came out" to me, she allowed me to ask a bunch of questions because she knew I was genuinely curious (I identified as a Southern Baptist at the time) and not disrespectful. I'll never forget that day!
Have you ever seen The Wickerman with Christopher Lee?
You are the essence of intelligence, moving. Genuinely enjoyed this video. Thank you.
As a person who is not exactly a Pagan in truest sense but a Hindu (many rituals, many Gods and commonalities with Pagans), thank you for making this video. For many years I watched my religion getting demonized by Western media (like Indian Jones etc.). Many thanks for addressing this
really loved your video, thank you so much!
Great video and I love that you're a practicing Pagan so you have real knowledge of the subject. While I enjoyed the film I can agree with you on some points. For example when people talk about it being "an empowering story of seperation from toxicity" but in reality she is being brainwashed very clearly. Gaslighting plays a huge part for poor Dani and she doesn't stand a chance against this new and seemingly welcoming community. I enjoy psychedelics so that was a big draw for me as well as the cult experiences, I'm fascinated by it.
As someone who's delving more into Satanism I would love to hear your thoughts on the topic as a Pagan.
This was incredibly researched and I really appreciated the new letterboxd list for "Midsommar Research" that you basically created for me.
Also, and I mean this as genuinely and sincere as possible, If you want to see better Pagan representation, you're gonna have to create it yourself.
This was so fascinating and insightful I had to subscribe and I'm looking forward to watching more
i think it's kinda terrifying how many people think that this was empowering or that it had a happy ending. i still don't understand how they can think that.
It's interesting to see how different religions are portrayed as villains, and what we have to unpack from that as a culture.
Muslims are usually antagonists in action movies, in the very vague but threatening role of the foreign terrorist. Pagans are "assigned" to horror, as this video covers thoroughly, and christians get the bad guy role in scientific explorations as the institution trying to stop knowledge, although less often and in less "grandious" or even scary ways. If you want to get specific, different movies with evangelic themes, especially historic ones, also tend to use catholics as their villains... Granted, there's times when that last one is justified, but it's still interesting to see. Jews get represented a bit differently - mainly through a set of characteristics (greed, mischief, physical appearance, you get the gist) applied to a villain, instead of direct insinuation. More eastern religions however, mainly hinduism and buddism, I see barely represented at all, if we exclude the "wise stereotypical monk"...
I guess I don't really have a point here for the moment, I just thought it incredibly interesting. Certainly something to keep in mind.
I’m glad you made this video. I, myself, was raised pagan and I enjoyed _Midsommar_ but I also felt kind of icky about it. Not so much for the fact that it portrayed paganism inaccurately or even maliciously but because of how those sentiments bleed into the public’s already uneducated opinion about paganism. Also as a person with bipolar disorder I think Ari Asters’ films are super compelling but that he has some problems with using mental illness and disability for its shock factor which has some kinda harmful implications.
Thank you for this video! When I first time watched Midsommar, I couldn't help feeling odd about how grossly they've misrepresented pre-Christian, non-Abrahamic faith of the Ancient Norse. Not only that, but of all non-Abrahamic, pre-Christian faiths. I'm a Hindu from Bengal, who believes in our ancient Gods. We've gotten our fair share of gross misrepresentation, so I immediately felt for Norse Pagans
I wish I could show this video to literally everyone i've ever met. Pagans and witches are so misrepresented
I'd love to hear more about paganism and more positive portrayals of pagans in pop culture media. This was a great essay, I learned a lot!
Edit: I didn't finish the whole video before commenting so I missed you actually listing good examples of paganism in film! Still!
I liked your analysis of Christian because it was close to mine, though I found him, not a full blown asshole, but a bit of a one. My reasoning is that Dani is hanging out with three young guys. I mean, where are her girlfriends for her emotional support? She has none. I feel, after four years, Christian has been burdening the weight of Dani's emotional neediness and it has drained him of almost any love or empathy or sympathy he has for her, though at times he still shows it but probably more out of duty.
Great video! I must admit I know very little about paganism. Do you have suggestions for videos/reading to learn more?
For TH-camrs I highly recommend Harmony Nice, Scarlet Ravenswood, the White Witch Parlor. For writers I recommend Scott Cunningham and Vivianne Crowley. I haven't personally read this one but I've heard Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions is also very good
@@Emiloid thank you!! I will check them out
Excellent analysis.
Thanks Hildegard!
I'm a Pagan & I wasn't & never have been offended by these types of movies. From a writing standpoint, which I'm coming from because I am a writer... Paganism & witches are easy targets for horror fiction because it's not mainstream, it's the Occult, which means it's easy to make that shit scary. There are plenty of Christian-based horror movies too. If there was a horror movie about REAL Paganism & witches no one would fucking watch it because it would be boring as shit.
Thank you for this amazing video. I just happened across it while searching TH-cam with keywords 'pagan scholarship'. I have been a Neopagan for over 25 years, and an initiated Witch (using capitals to denote my religious orientation) 21+ years. Excellent deconstruction. Midsommar left me feeling disjointed, and you told me why. Now I'm thinking about writing a horror story where the protagonist is Pagan and the villains are from a Christian cult.
this video was so well done..wow
Very nicely done. I like your point of view, and your scholastic and historical knowledge.🖤🇨🇦
Excellent video! I really appreciate that you stand the ground and reject this cultish depiction of paganism in art, however, I’m not certain whether our modern western interpretation and practice of pagan religion can be enough of an argument to change the historical paganism perception. Our modern individualistic society produced modern paganism, but even to this day people in non-western countries live as close communities where everyone and their dog knows your every move, so Midsommar is not far from possibility of such society to become a cult. We cannot hide ourselves from the past, we need to accept it and move forward to be better than our ancestors.
As a norse pagan I loved it, then again I loved the Wican man. I actually personally think less of pagans who are offended by it, much the same for people who admire and horgas.
This is a really good video, I wish more people would see it
Great insights into the topic of pagan representation! As a European atheist myself, I hadn't thought about that perspective at all. For me, the Horgas were simply a fictional representation of an indigenous European cult, which I think is part of the genius of Midsommar. The film avoids very American discussions of race and focuses the viewer's attention on the willful suspension of common sense and secular, rational thinking (of course, it also critiques this basic attitude of secular rationalism and open-minded relativism - exposing it as ignorant in the case of our American student protagonists). That's why I think the choice of a native (pagan, if you like) European setting is quite brilliant.
Although I understand the frustration with this folk-horror trope of evil pagans, I think Midsommar used it quite perfectly!
In the end, the people who romanticized the fictional Horgas really fell for Ari Aster's trap. They are the other side of the coin to the ignorant people who get their ideas about modern paganism from a folk horror film!
PS: Your point about pagan gods in Supernatural is valid, but I would argue that angels or even God aren't really portrayed sympathetically either :)
Representation is a tricky thing and you can never please everyone, but I am sympathetic to your cause and would like me some evil Christian cult film next!
Cheers!
To add to that - the Satanists in the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina do not have their hands clean either.
i know it was said that paganism in folk horror has a trope of being collective-focused, but The Wicker Man has a reasoning behind the use of the trope of focusing on the collective.
to put it as briefly as i can without writing an entire dissertation, towards the end of the movie right before Howie is sacrificed, Lord Summerisle states the fact that Howie wins too by dying because he is made a martyr in the Christian pov (specifically Scottish Presbyterian for Howie). and Summerisle wins because he and the townsfolk have Howie as the fool-king-victim bringing in the crops. both perspectives tie into one archetype that's used in myth in every human culture which is the hero/king/fool sacrificing themself for an ultimate good for the community. a win-win for everyone, for both Christian and pagan
Agree.
Thank you for this video! It was fascinating 💗✨
Love! This made me think a lot, I had a similar experience in church. I also feel like Midsommar relies on ideas of white supremecy (on purpose) idealizing the past and pagan traditions, but I mean, their desire is never authentic so I get how that would be misleading. Equating paganism with white supremecy, which only idealizes and doesn't practice their version of a "fictional pagan past" is an interesting cinematic choice but doesn't seem to really be about paganism. Not sure if that makes sense?
You are so right. We don't know how old the "scriptures" or limns of the Hargas in the film actually are. The power elite/elders may be gaslighting everyone else into believing their uber organized structure as a people. The group is extolled over the individual. For all we know, this is the first 90-year celebration to which the village and visitors are treated.
I loved the movie, however, not the least of which are the questions that you raise in your video. Ari Aster created a bizarre world in existence for--how many years?
from someone that knows nothing about paganism , after watching this film i came to the conclusion that this group are not an average pagan group. more a cult i would not have a negative view of modern paganism.
In defense of Midsommar, being one of my all-time favorite movies, I don't think it meant to represent Pagans or Paganism. It's about a murderous cult and about brainwashing, hence the hive mind of the Hargas. Paganism just seemed to be the backdrop for the story. It could have just as easily been about the cult of Osho, Scientology or some business-model MLM cult (maybe not so much about murder but for exaple, about fraud). I've recently been researching Paganism more and am utterly fascinated and inspired by it.
I have that same necklace except the stone is amber lol :) And unfortunately, I live in what some people call the "Bible Belt of California" and learned to not put pagan bumper stickers on my car if I wanted that car to continue to function properly. You're right, we isolate for a reason.
I just watched Midsommar for the first time yesterday and thanks to TH-cam's algorithm I've watched several videos breaking it down but thankfully only came across one that just assumed all Nordic symbolism was inherently Nazi-related. As if the Nazis came up with the runic alphabets by themselves or some such nonsense and not because they appropriated freaking EVERYTHING. I don't get actively angry or offended when I see pagan religions portrayed poorly in films so much as I get annoyed that the tropes still exist and if I'm watching something with people unfamiliar with anything pagan, I have to explain things YET AGAIN. And that's assuming that I think I can explain things without getting piled on by pearl-clutching Christians, especially if those Christians are in a position of power over me. Anyway, rambling comment over! Great video and great necklace :)
Why only 48 upvotes and 407 views? This is an excellent video. Thank you so much.
Ah thank you!! ^^
Why am I just now finding this awesome channel?! That was an excellent break down of Midsommar, and even better than that, an outstanding insight into what real paganism is! I'm excited to watch more of this channel and see what other gems are hiding out here 👏👍
Love this video! Comment for the algorithm (-:
I think the entire thing is meant to be allegorical. It's about the end of a relationship. The rest is just setting. As a fledgling Norse Heathen, the religious beliefs in this movie seem like a mishmash (I think you said as much early in the video) of various things. There's nothing about it which makes any sense, other than the stuff about the cycle of life, which is very general and part of many pagan spiritual paths. I enjoyed Midsommar, but as a representation of paganism, it's a mess. I don't think this movie is mainstream enough to harm outsider views of pagan paths. However, it's bizarre how they kind of plucked elements various paths, invented even more, and ended up with a fictional religion which doesn't feel remotely authentic.
Thank you for this analysis. As someone who's on the left hand path and eclectic wiccan witch (I follow majority of the wiccan religion except I don't believe in the harm none rule and the rule of 3) and to me it's almost laughable at this point how often these horror movies associate paganism and witch craft with evil lol
Even dark magick gets very unfairly demonised by these movies never mind our gods and goddesses (just look at how the world has demonized Lilith Hecate and Isis and having worked with all 3 it's sad how so far from wrong the modern world is about these 3 goddesses tbh).
Never watched midsommar but honestly after what I heard about hereditary but tbh after Chilling adventures of Sabrina I'm so over non pagans/witches using us in their stories without understanding shit about our beliefs and practices.
Thank you, I have never considered paganism representation or viewpoint before.
Oogh! You recounting your experience in the christian community hit really close to home with my childhood. Up into my highschool years I experienced a lot of manipulation and gaslighting by my Methodist church. It was a really rough transition entering into adulthood and until my early 20's I had to battle with a lot of anger over that indoctrination.
I feel like with how horror uses Christianity in sacrilegious ways constantly, one movie using paganism in a way not aligned with actual paganism is just par for the course. Horror largely focuses on twisting Judeo-Christian notions.
I love analysis. Also I’m writing pagan characters in my book, how they are powerful empire, but many people thought all them to be terrible people, but they are aren’t. They are a peaceful religion. This is like more in the vein of Ancient Rome.
Random comment for the algorithm: the buckle on your left overall strap lines up with the design on your top in a cool way. :
Lol thanks I just noticed that
This video is so good.
Some monotheists seem to have no concept of an individualistic spirituality. Personally I feel that spirituality stagnates without the individual touch.
Also, yeah, Satanists get a bad rap too and often gets stirred in or pitted against pagan religions in movies and its so dumb.
OMG this right here
I was very uninterested in intimate acts for reason of staying pure and ignoring passing ideas or questions of the "loopholes" I ponder on
All I was met with was guilt confusion and confrontation of not surrendering enough to a higher power that at times seem to care very little of me and from my view point the ones who was in touch followed the values less than me, So yes I constantly thought of Christianity while watching this
the cliff jumping I seen as baptizing as in both violent acts are wipe clean by a ritual practice.
Like any great piece of art everyone who watches this movie takes something different away from it... making it a great piece of artwork
I really enjoy your analysis. In fact, the movie works hard to represent how ritual works and the anthropology of experience. And I think that Aster also portrait a mirror portrait of two different cultures and show how both of them could be insensitive and manipulative.
I recognize that Pagans are portrayed very similarly across films and that often it is a rural human sacrifice cults, and that it can be hurtful. I love these films as a genre, and can't really comment on how legitimately problematic portrayals are, but I do think there's an important aspect to the best films of the genre: they portray an isolated remnant of an unusually dark faith. They aren't a widespread menacing monolith a la Blood Libel. I think that counts for something.
Good Analysis
Supernatural does not accurately represent Christianity. I did not expect it to, but I am very offended they were not more considerate. Also, the South Park depiction of Jesus Christ has a lot of aspects that are not consistent with the Bible. Please make a video on this! Thanks!
😁😁
more people should watch this video
there's no real proof that the ättestupa ever happened. just a bunch of old wives' tales about large cliffs. it actually could've just been a way for christians to basically say that norse mythology was to be avoided to all the christianised kids
Well my own way in paganism is completely different from Emily, and it's more connected with the philosophy of traditionalism and folkish way, but - I'm in 100% agree with all arguments of this video. It's real that in our modern world (in Kali-yuga as we traditionalists say) the pagan way for the person - is completely Individual way, but of course somewhere maybe there is so totalitarian collectivistic groups (as pagans as non-pagans I suppose) still for me it is individual again. Second thing, I don't think that our pagan ancestors had that manipulating techniques in past years. It's point for big lecture.
p. s. sorry for mistakes in English, everyone hi from Russia.
I did not recognize paganism in Midsommar at all. It echoes some of it but intelligent people would not be offended, just entertained by a movie.
Nowhere in the film is it stated or implied that the cult are pagans.
I am a Pagawic, which is my personal pagan and Wiccan identification. I did not like this movie at all. I found it the usual portrayal of seeing paganism as some sinister belief, like in the Burning Man movie. I don't see any of what they did in this movie, showing Paganism in a good light. It was the continual treatment that Earth religion is evil. This is to me the usual Christian way of villainizing anything that is not Christianity.
I am not an expert of . . . well anything, so I can’t say what is and what isn’t accurate in this flick, but to me it felt like the director had thrown a hodge podge of stuff he read about various pagan stuff over the world throughout time and threw all of it together. And doing so made it all seem really, unbelievable? So I ended up not caring.
And yeah, I had no sympathy for the characters. Empathy, but once those old folks threw themselves off the cliff and they STUCK AROUND, I was done.
But I’m glad there is a successful director with a voice out there. Great vid
I respect your point of view despite not agreeing with you on an ideological standpoint, however i have two things to add to it in regards to christianity (this is gonna be long by the way):
• Christ gave His life in exchange for forgiveness of our sins, the romans killed Him, a portion of hebrews that followed Him did snitch on Him, however the religion of christianity is mostly about respect, devotion and (platonic) love as Christ preached
• by 2021 the christians are always depicted as murderous biggots (ironically, that goes against the teachings of Christ) forming a cult that persecutes minorities, it's always the same cult, like you said about the generic pagan cult in movies, the only safe strawman to attack in media nowadays is christianity.
Though the whole thing about love and respect i mentioned earlier is the actual doctrine, many people twist that to their own benefit, it happened to you, i don't deny it doesn't happen, don't get me wrong, it's sad that happens, and while i can't take responsibility for what the christians you met did, i can sympathize with you, i'm sorry for what you have been through, it must have been terrible, but i reinforce what i said before, christians are not being portrayed as the good guys anymore, content creators are using a strawman of medieval catholic church being used nowadays, it's not like that, i mean, who fucking persecutes minorities and burn them in public places like in a thousand years ago? That doesn't happen and yet, christians are depicted like that, there are multiple branches of the thing (i am a methodist, some people in my family are baptists, other are catholic) they all have a different interpretation of the Bible and the doctrines, Luther did go through ALL the trouble of translating the Bible from Greek/Hebrew languages so it could be more accessible to the masses, but if it serves as something, that misinformation media portrays both christians (as the medieval catholic church, even if outside of catholicism no other branch uses of imagery) and pagans (as demonic cultists aloof from reality) are wrong, and they happen, it's sad, and a bit ironic, that the ones who preach respect are the least respected...
Catholic here, finally, reading this comment section reminds me why the teachings of Christ is true. There is no forgiveness in these hearts nothing but vile hatred and crying how they are look down upon. Lots of these people want to write straw mens. My family is from Mexico, the Aztecs were pagans and they sacrificed man, women and CHILDREN. Human sacrifices happened in some pagan religions, I saw videos of “witches” grave robbing coffins for human remains.
@@MrSophire and yet, we are the bad guys in the movies, right?
@@QuaestorL seems like it, but as the good Lord says we are not of this world.
@@MrSophire *and they sacrificed man, women and CHILDREN* "The Cathars were attacked first by the Albigensian Crusade and later by the Medieval Catholic Inquisition, which eradicated the sect by 1350. Many thousands were slaughtered, hanged, or burnt at the stake, sometimes without regard for whether man or woman or child."
As someone who once identified as a Pagan and who is starting to explore that path again, I loved hearing your thoughts on this topic! I especially liked what you said about the freedom Paganism gives you to find your own way with spirituality. I think that’s what draws me to it.
Haven’t seen Midsommar yet, but I thought it was interesting that you thought some of the tactics the characters use in the movie were closer to examples of Christianity than Paganism. I hadn’t thought of it that way until now, so thanks!
Your last point was especially good. I agree that there should be a more diverse representation of Paganism in movies. I think that while this would certainly help people outside of the Pagan community have a better understanding of what it’s all about, it would also be a great service to those who already identify as Pagans. I know for me this would help me better process my own sense of Paganism and what aspects of it I most connect with.
Great video, and blessed be! 💚
Thank you so much for watching, and for your kind words! I definitely agree that diverse representations would help Pagans think about what defines them, and why they've come to paganism in the first place. Blessed be!
I find the marvel movies to be completely unrepresentative of and offensive to norse mythology
Seriously thought they were a cult didn't know it was trying to portray paganism
Pagans are not an organized religion--no Pope, no recognized 1 bible.... There must be differences, especially between pagans across the pond from each other.
The Catholic Church (in reality a business with secrets and morality problems) has one person the religion deems "infallible on church doctrine." And we've had plenty of films (one Oscar winning) pertaining to the fallibility of parish and school priests who have broken taboos of children and sexuality.
It makes no sense to me (raised Catlick) to compare cults--and not all are "pagan"--to each other for similarity. All cults are not pagan.
Based video.
I don’t get why people would be offended by this movie, because no swede is so…
good review i didnt like the movie either and I'm not even a pagan!
10:03 people really are stupid completely agree had the same thoughts
My ex was Pagan. She believed in ritual sacrifice. She was rightfully arrested for attempted murder. Enough said.
Cool story bro.
@@robby7499 Your "religion" is full of grown children playing Dungeons and Dragons. If you want me to believe you're legit, then how about you curse me? Fill me up with black magic, why don't ya? Come on, put a spell on me, Merlin
@@officialtoddhoward69 Your bad relationship history is not an excuse to demean other people's spirituality and beliefs. Please take your childishness and bigotry someplace else - therapy maybe?
@@Emiloid Have fun in your wizarding world, Harry Potter. I'll enjoy mine of reason
@@officialtoddhoward69 you do realise your world of reason takes many things from the ancient pre Christian pagans and the occult.
I have no thoughts but I really liked watching this!
Thank you so much for watching
this is so good!! i’m a big fan of horror so i love hearing any commentary on the genre, and i especially loved hearing yours. i’m also a big fan of NOT disrespecting peoples’ faiths, so folk horror’s pretty significant issue with misrepresenting paganism has nagged at me since i first got into the genre. and the comparison of christianity to the way the cult in midsommar ran REALLY resonated with me. i grew up christian and went to a retreat three times three consecutive years when i was in junior high, and shit felt like a cult at times. if midsommar centered around christianity, that would’ve felt more grounded in reality to me and i think much more relatable to current audiences since christianity is one of the largest religions in the world. great video!!
I definitely didn't see this film as a representation of pagan religion lol. I just saw it as a cult, that maybe used some elements of paganism but was ultimately an entirely different thing