You rock how you can retain all those nuances in your mind with the various systems and being able to clearly communicate your findings is impressive and ever so helpful and intriguing
Thank you. I do have notes that I take during the listening tests so it's not completely from memory so much as prompted by some key points to jog my recollection of each device. 😁
I've been extremely happy with my Bifrost 2/64, but have been using it exclusively with my speaker systems. You've given me some interest in swapping it into my headphone system (currently using the Ares 2).
It'll be interesting to see how you enjoy it with headphones. Ares II is also very popular with speaker uses so maybe a swap will bring you benefits in both systems
if you have an Ares 2 you could check out what HEADquarter Audio has to say about it. This guy is deeply into hardware tuning - he suggests to unscrew and carefully rescrew the XLR sockets on the back in the case. Apparently this improves the sound noticeably, I guess because the action can reduce tension on the circuit board where all the resistors are on, nearby (perhaps flattens it just a bit, which in theory could make quite a difference because warping could change the distance between the resisistors by a minimal amount). Even if it doesn't really do something, it is worth a try, because it takes a few minutes and you are not even opening up the Ares.
@@PassionforSound The BF 2/64 is more hifi sounding, more refined than GMB. It has lower noise floor, better blackround, better detail retrieval, better imaging, as good bass response, but better treble than Gungnir MB A2 Unison. I personally can't think of any way the GMB was any better to my ears, so I sold it. I also did a direct A/B with Yggdrasil LIM and BF 2/64 using XLR output on each DAC to a Schiit Freya S+ and 2x Tyr setup. I was doing the A/B with another guy and we both came to similar conclusions: the BF 2/64 sounded fuller with better treble. The LIM had better mid-range and timbre, better detail retrieval, better instrument separation, and better blackground/lower noise floor than the BF 2/64. But we're splitting hairs, not night and day. The BF 2/64 can do 90-95% of what the LIM can do (if not better in a few respects) and it can do it at 33% the price.
Thanks very much again for the reviews and comparisons. You've now covered most of the DAC's I've had my eye on :) If you're able to get a hold of Gustard's new DAC's: then that would really round out my options :) 1. R26 (R2R discrete topology) 2. A26 (AKM delta-sigma topology) Regarding some matching and stacked headphone amps I'm considering are: to be used with Sennheiser HD800S 1. Denafrips Artemis (Class A SS topology) 2. Gustard H20 Pro (Class A SS topology) - due out 2023 3. Schiit Audio - I hear some new analogue releases are due out Q1 2023, so I'm keen to see what is released
Great review. Thanks. Something for me in the US is support and upgradeability of Schiit, that is not comparable to any others let alone Chinese DACS and amps. I had yggi OG USB Gen 5 4 years ago now I have yggi + OG with Unison USB.. I had Bifrost 2, and now I have Bifrost 2/64. Maybe exist but I have not heard of any manufacturer that gives you this level of upgradability and support.
You're totally right. Schiit are unique for their upgradeable designs and they're only getting stronger in that regard it seems. Glad you liked the review!
I had that EXACT SAME comment about the loose bass on the Pontus! I felt like it had all the tools to be better than my Gumby, but the Gumby was delivering more often. Great review. Thanks!
Very nice review. Comparisons give context. I had Pontus 2 and i loved it. I wasn't that impressed with Ares 2. I recently got a dac based on Philips TDA1540, the first chip for digital ever made and i am very happy.
Interesting you should mention that. I've got an Abbas DAC on loan for review from a patron and I think it's using the TDA1541 (definitely something in that line of DAC chips). It sounds great!
What a great comparison. Thank you. I'm rooting for Schiit, but I really wish they could add DSD decoding to their DACs. The Yggy OG sounds like the sound signature I'm looking for.
The Yggy OG is a beast. There is some talk about their USB circuit accepting higher sample rates in the future, but I'm not sure if that will translate to DSD capabilities, especially on their Multibit DACs
Anxiously awaiting delivery of my Bifrost 2 Gen 5 from ebay. $350 shipped. Since modular, can upgrade the board and still come in under the price of new. Plus....I like that is made in the US. Originally was going for Ares 2, but when I found the Bifrost at this price, I bought on the spot.
Interesting review. I recall you had Yggy OG beating Holo Spring 3 as well and other users generally place Holo Spring 3 and Pontus on a similar level. On a sound demo, the reviewer Terry Ellis demonstrates Musician Audio Aquarius (which critically included OCXO clocks) beating Pontus on instrument separation and detail. That one might be a good competitor for Yggy OG.
Yes, Yggy OG is the best DAC I've tried around the price with the possible exception of the Qutest, but I've never had them side-by-side. After I posted this, Musician reached out to me and we might be able to collaborate again in the future so let's see what I can try and how it sounds 🙂
I really like this comparison video. One thing I find lacking is what input we were listening to on each of the DACs. I prefer the AES input on my Yggy OG very slightly over the Unison USB input. Very nice review!
Glad you liked it, Tom! I tend to always use USB for comparisons of DACs because it seems to be the most commonly used input for most people (not all, I know) and I like to have a level playing field. Trying to cover all the variabilities between different inputs on different devices would get long and complicated, but I agree with you that some devices perform slightly better from certain inputs.
@@PassionforSound I would like to know your experience comparing the balanced and unbalanced outputs. I’ve heard other reviewers say that the difference in the two outputs is less on the Bifrost than many other dacs. I need a DAC I can start with single ended to keep my old receiver limping along but I have monoblocks with balanced and unbalanced inputs. I plan on getting to a complete balanced signal path but need something to start that also performs well on the single ended outputs which perhaps don’t get the attention I’d like from many of the manufacturers. Do you think the Bifrost might perform well in this regard?
@@PassionforSoundThe reason there's little to no difference between the 2 is because there is none. Balanced and single ended operation is not compatible. If you are mixing the 2, steps have to be taken to make the connection the same at both ends. With home audio 90%of the time, the connection defaults to single ended. And the reason for this is simple. A balanced connection requires 3 conductors. 2 signal, 1 ground, and a single ended connection requires 2 conductors, one signal and 1 ground. On the balanced component something has to be done with the 3rd pin. It has electricity running through it with no place to go. At this point I have to stop. How that 3rd pin gets dealt with can differ quite a bit. There's more than one way a component can be balanced. And after a choice is made on how to do it, there are other options, as well. So, even if you have 2 pieces of equipment that are balanced, what was done to make them balanced can be different. With all that being said, the point is that when he connects the 2 pieces, the connection will not be balanced. Using the xlr outputs will be identical to using the rca outputs. If you want to verify that the connection isn't balanced, its very easy to do. When you balance a signal, you naturally end up with 4-6db higher output on the balanced connection. Try it both ways and if the balanced connection isn't louder than the SE connection, its not balanced.
Think I will stick with the Yggy OG and look at getting a second pair of speakers that's not as lively. The R2R DAC still sounds more natural to me than the good delta-sigma DAC I was using before. Resolution is arguably not any better, but I don't care.
Very direct criticism about the Pegasus. I have seen many reviews from you but never so much and so direct criticism about a brand, and I believe you are still holding back. I think it is good that you just say what your gut feeling is telling you.. valuable information for potential buyers. 👍
Yes, I always try to give products and brands the benefit of the doubt, but this one was pretty inexcusable. Any sense of me holding back is purely because I'm making some assumptions about them based on what I've seen, but with no hard evidence. I don't want to over-influence people even though my gut says I would never buy a product from Musician
Excellent reviews. This is a much welcome and needed shootout. The reviews for non-sigma DACs run the gamete and have a lot of pre-disposed feelings mixed in. You may already have a video but I feel many here would be well served by you taking the time for a an R2R vs. DS comparison. Not which is necessarily "better " but the pros and cons and use case differences
It seems to me that most DS DACs are limited by both the op-amps put inside to keep the price low and keep the size small (as opposed to discrete class A designs like the Gustard X26 Pro) and all of them are limited by the rather basic filters. For me the solution has been to get a well-designed DAC (the Gus) which also has the option to bypass its internal filtering and then feed it HQPlayer-upsampled (and already PCM to DSD converted) signal with the filter of my choice. The difference between this set-up and something like the Topping D90 is night and day. I would be surprised if any of the DACs reviewed here could come close to the sound this produces as the filters are even more advanced than Chord products'. It also didn't cost that much in comparison so I couldn't be happier.
I definitely agree with this, Michal. Greymatterstome, the R2R vs DS topic is a really interesting one, but hard to summarise in a single video because a lot going on with the questions of system synergy and taste added to factors like the filters used by most chip DACs (AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic, etc.) and then also the output stages as Michal said. The short summary is that DACs built on ESS, AKM, etc. are always going to lack soundstage layering and depth and will tend to present a very left-right wall of sound which some people prefer because it pushes details forwards, but that's still a gross oversimplification.
Lovely review, I absolutely love the energy my Yggy OG brings in a speaker setup. I think in headphones though I do appreciate DACs that stage a little larger, of course there is so many variables but like you said they're all good in different ways.
@@Ray-dl5mp I haven’t heard everything out there but I very much agree with Lachlan’s ears. I’ve heard the Ares II and it’s too soft/slow for me. Chord stuff I find very clean on its own but they seem to work really well with tube amps. I tried a Holo May + Soloist GT at CanJam and that might have been my favourite setup but not cheap!
@@snowrang3r657 Yeah Lachlan hasn't sterred me wrong yet. I love my SA-1 (big reason I got it was his review). Finally got a fully balanced setup with my modius and I'm blown away. Everything sounds amazing on this thing with my HD600's. Surprised how a lot of orchestra sounds way better than I thought was possible on these headphones too. Just very happy overall, makes you love the hobby when you find something that is so damn good. But of course now I'm curious, should I update the modius to BF2 or something else, ha. But still loving it so far. : ) thanks for your thoughts!
@@snowrang3r657 My favorite so far for headphones setups is Gustard R26 and Soloist GT. I also just added the Gustard U18 DDC and Gustard C18 clock. All I can say is wow. Sounds good to my ears.
Great review and summary of these DACS. I bought the Musician Draco and it works really well taming my bright system/room and giving me some of that vinyl type sound I have been missing. I have found that the Draco responds well to mounting spikes, and a decent Supra Excalibur cable which add energy to the sound without affecting smoothness. I bought the Draco through Ali Express for $699 and have always found their return/refund policy very fair.
Just upgraded to the Bifrost 2/64 from the Modius and the first thing I noticed was how much less grainy the sound was. I'm still using the Magnius amp and should be receiving the Jotunhiem 2 today. So I will be comparing both setups to each other to confirm my findings.
Gustard r26 and Aqua La Voce s3 would be next on my suggestion if you ever get access to either product. Fantastic comparison on these though the value of the new bf2 cannot be denied.
I have been looking at the Benchmark and the RME DACs for quite some time, but just could never bring myself to commit to the price tags. I think the 2/64 will be an excellent go to instead.
Musician as a company exists because the designer behind Denafrips wanted to have more percentage of the sales than Denafrips gave him. Musician DACs are basically further improved designs by the same designer in his own company. That is why they are similar. I would also add, that the Pegasus technicalities improve a lot with an upgrade fuse like SR Purple Fuse.
Yea. There is nothing iffy about the Musician brand. They are from the same company that makes the Denafrips products. But this approach from the Chinese company just confounds the western users, who are not used to a manufacturer blatantly making similar products under different brandnames. For example, most toasters may be made by one OEM company but since designs are different w different brandnames, no one really questions if there is anything wrong. For this, we can only blame the company behind musician and denafrips for confusing their worldwide audience.
@@NeilBlanchard actually there are two fuses; if I remember correctly one is used for 220V and both for 110V, and on forums it is mentioned too that replacing the standard fuse(s) improves performance. I have a Pegasus, and I was aware of the customer support issues with this brand. I just bought it through a trusted European distributor - Audiophonics - so any potential warranty issues will have to be solved by the distributor.
Glad you liked it. We tried to arrange a 3-way Yggy comparison when the LIM and MIL versions were released, but it's a big expense for Schiit to send out review units
I’ve had 3 Denafrips products and never had a reason to have to contact them for issues - I had an issue with a Freya+ however that required a warranty fix. As far as the dacs compared here, it’s more of a features and personal sound signature preference/price consideration than anything else. All of them will sound pretty good.
Yes, they'll all sound great. I do think it's worth spending more on the Pontus II and Yggy OG for people wanting max performance, but there's definitely no bad choice here
Most of the current dac uses the same r2r design that originated from Netherlands (if I remember correctly) and you can find the r2r ladders online which looks very similar to those in Denafrips units or Musician units. I honestly believe they came from the same manufacturer hence them sounding quite similar. I think r2r is where you really get more for the money you pay for, especially seeing what Holo is able to make with the black custom pcb and stuff.
When I visited the Schittr in California in late 2018, I heard the progression from Modi to Yggdrasil. Once I heard multibit, I couldn't go back. I already owned a Modi Multibit and still appreciate the relaxed, coherent sound although it lacks detail compared to its more expensive brethren.
Great that you got to try them for yourself and hear what each step up brings! I've got the new Modi Multibit 2 here now and I'm looking forward to reviewing it soon
@@mar2ky yea I hope so too. It’s just tough probably for Schiit to know what to do in that price range because Biifrost appeals to so many people because of the price under $1k and by all accounts is a great dac subjectively. So the Yggy is like the gold standard but has huge drawbacks like size and price. So if they release a mini Yggy, everyone would buy it but then there would be no point to the more expensive one. And not sure if they can even reduce the size easily and do what they are doing. The only option I could really see if you make a better version of Biifrost for 1k-1.2k but I don’t even know what that would be.
@Mark tbh. Balanced, while better for headroom (hotter line level output) and peace of mind (shielding and ground loop elimination) and taking advantage of full balanced design (so you don't use a summed single ended output)... isn't necessary in 2023. Keep an eye out for used Yggy OG's or LIM versions
@@Maver1ck911 it’s nice if you need the extra power for EQ set ups. Even the objective guy Amir suggests balanced. But I agree if you don’t have a big negative pre amp setting for eq or you don’t use eq, then balanced is probably not needed. It’s all about having enough power for what you’re tying to do.
I was contemplating buying the Bifrost but was put off a bit by the poor measurements on ASR. Yggy also measures poorly. Not sure why that can be when subjective sound quality appears to be very good ?
The measurements don't tell the whole story because there are some measurements that ASR don't do and also we don't necessarily completely understand how to interpret all measurements to make a complete picture of the subjective experience. Great measuring gear can sound great and it can sound flat and lifeless. "Poorly" measuring gear (i.e. not top of the SINAD chart) can also sound great or it can sound terrible too
@@PassionforSound I agree that it may be difficult to interpret how the measurements will affect sound quality. I think Amir from ASR himself doesn't necessarily know how important Sinad is. However without looking back at the original evaluations, distortion was measured for Bifrost and Yggy which should be audible and therefore not a good thing and Amir could not recommend them.
It all depends on the type of distortion (2nd order, 3rd order, intermodulation vs static noise, etc.) and, probably more importantly, is the fact that the levels of distortion Amir might consider unsatisfactory are often still way below the distortion levels of a headphone driver so it's a bit of a non-issue and the Yggy OG continues to be one of the subjectively best sounding DACs I have tried at the price.
@@PassionforSound Can I ask if you did this comparison test blind as expectation bias can also influence subjective listening tests. If you have read or listened to reviews from other reviewers you are expecting a piece of gear to sound a certain way and then you are looking for those things when listening so you are priming yourself to make a similar assessment of a product. Also you may not really want to disagree with other reviewers for fear of being the only one to think differently about something. I am not saying you would do this knowingly but sometimes we may not be fully aware of the things influencing us.
I have tried blind testing and sighted testing in the past and both have their drawbacks. I'll do a video about this in the future. The short answer is that I didn't blind test, but I also hadn't watched reviews of the Pegasus or Pontus II and I've owned the BF264 and Yggy OG for ages now. I also make a point of deliberately testing my first impressions by coming back at a later time and listening again while seeking to prove my original impressions wrong. This is a way we can overcome unconscious biases if they are present. Based on your questions, I'd guess that you're splitting time between ASR and the rest of the audio world. Please be mindful that the ASR community as a whole has a fairly singular, black and white view of this hobby. In my experience, there's a LOT of grey area that's not completely understood scientifically and also there's the grey areas of preference, taste and synergies between gear. I'm not discouraging you from visiting ASR, just encouraging that you maintain an open mind and keep asking questions without forming your own pre-conceived ideas of what's right and wrong.
Hi , I have the bifrost 2 OG and also the 2/64 dac card….. currently i am using it as a bifrost 2/64 dac…. i am curious to the denafrips(both area 2 and pontus 2) being a r2r ladder…. many say that 1) the instruments depth of layering , separation is more in pontus 2 compared to bifrost 2/64… instruments feel more stretched into depth in denafrips they say….i am curious to know is this true ? 2) many say that the instruments reverb/reflection details in space are in more in pontus 2 compared to bifrost 2/64 , is this true.? i do not own a r2r ladder dac like denafrips area 2 or pontus 2 , i only own bifrost 2 og and 2/64 …. so i was curious to know from you..
I do think the Pontus 2 produces more sense of depth in the soundstage so that's true. I'm not sure about the room reflections though and would need to try them both again to be certain of that one. Unfortunately, the Pontus 2 was on loan so I don't have it here to check.
I know this video is old but does anyone know how bad the Yggdrasil's relay clicking is audible between tracks? I'm close to pull the trigger on a used Yggy in preference to the Pontus.
It will only click when changing sample rates which means it won't interrupt gapless playback of a single album. When it does click, it's about the same as most other relay-based devices I've tried. It's not loud enough to hear in another room, but it's loud enough that you won't miss hearing it when you're in the same room.
I wanted to thank you for this video and your recent reply. I ended up with the Pontius 2 12th anniversary. I'm astounded with the sound. It's not like the occasional track gains missing details. Every track is like a new recording. The instruments no longer hug the individual speakers but finally sounds contiguous across the soundstage. This video and your response was very helpful to me. Thanks! 😊
@@michabuszynski7326 Pontus 2 to juz wyzsza liga ja sie zastanawiam nad gustard r26. Mialem Arya ale wersja 2 nie przekonaly mnie bo gora byla sztuczna i za ostra, calkiem mozliwe ze twoj Pontus bylby w stanie to naprawic :). Singxer sa1 tez posiadam, kabel hybryde pewnie z Forzy masz. Ja osobiscie przestalem kupowac planary, wole moje dynamiki na lampowym wzmaku. Jak tak lubisz Arya to nie myslales nad Susvara? Cena podobna do Caldery
@@soulfulfool Polecam Denafrips Ares II, zrobilem upgrade wlasnie z tego. Na Gustard r26 bardzo sie zawiodlem. Napisalem dzis komenarz pod najnowszym jego filmem z przed 2 dni. Mialem r26 i oddalem zostawilem Ares 2 i teraz kupilem Pontus Jaki masz wzmacniacz lampowy i jakie sluchawki ? Ja chcę sprzedac Arya bo myślę ze kupie zmf atrium lub caldera Hifiman juz mnie nie interesuje ze wzgledu na bulid quality i cene amp do susvary
I think you nailed nicely it with the sound comparisons. I got a Pegasus just because I wanted to tame my system a little bit - it was getting a tiny bit too analytical, and poor - particularly treble heavy - recordings scratched my ears too much. Pegasus is a bit more forgiving.
@@PassionforSound I agree. I also like that you mention the potential issues with customer support of a (any) brand - it is important, because these products aren't cheap, and could break down. As I wrote elsewhere here, I got it through a more local distributor that I trust, and with regional (European) customer protection laws. A direct link with a manufacturer can also be nice just to ask general questions and have discussions, or just tell them that they made a great product. That is a bit of a bummer with a brand like Musician - where this element is compromised.
My question is, would the Yggy give me a splitting headache after 15-20 minutes the way the sharp-sounding Bifrost 2 consistently did? Granted, this could well be a system synergy issue combined with a sensitivity to brightness on my part, but to me the Pontus 2 (my current DAC) sounds significantly more natural, dimensional, and listenable than the Bifrost.
for me my set up. pontus2 wins over r26. r26 has good soundstage, 3d holographic. sound detail. but. pontus2 has life like mid micro detail top notch that gives you feeling. r26 dac has dead sound
Hi Lachlan, have you heard the Ladder Schumann Dac? Let's just say it kind of embarrassed my Hugo tt2 Scaler combo. Ok maybe that's a bit harsh. But I sold the Chord gear, bought the Schumann and had change left over... 😮 And I adored my Hugo tt2 and M scaler.
I said this in another video too but I hope Schiit can send you a LIM and OG Yggy+ so you can do a detailed comparison review. Seems like based on comments online both are loved by different people depending on the sound they are looking for. So I think that would be a great video that people want to see and might help Schiit sell some.
We tried to arrange that in the early days of the LIM and MIL versions, but it's a big expense for them to ship chunky DACs like that too Australia for review
@@PassionforSound ha yea. It's probably cheaper for them to pay for an all expenses trip for you to come to America. But they do I'm assuming make good profit on each one sold...but what do I know.
I think it's probably a balance of how much they want discussion of certain products compared to the cost of sending those products to reviewers like me. If the product is already selling well then they probably don't feel the need to invest the time and effort in sending out review units. On top of that, parts supplies have been limited at times recently so they'd need to prioritise the paying customers over reviewers
@@PassionforSound Yea that's true. They must be doing well as a company to keep coming out with new products pretty consistently. They probably don't need you to review it as much as I want you to. : ) but that just means I really respect your thoughts on things. Thanks for explaining.
I generally prefer Chord DACs because R2R can be a bit too soft on the transients/attack. Chord DACs don't always provide the same amount of maximum soundstage space as R2R DACs, but they tend to provide more texture and image focus so it's all a trade-off
I've actually got an Abbas DAC on loan from a patron and it runs a TDA1541 and sounds great. As for Audio Note, I don't currently have any contacts with them, but I'm always on the lookout for new products to review
Sounds like your experience with Musician is like my experience with Kinki Studio. Absolute dead end ghosting. In these price points, it feels like such a betrayal.
I didn't see this previously, but it is worth trying other connections if available although the slight differences that can be caused by different digital inputs/outputs won't transform a DAC's sound. What are you comparing the Bifrost 2 to as an alternative?
Excellent comparison. Love your channel and need your help. Have you ever tried Octo Dac 8 Stereo? I can only find a few reviews but all exceptional. Stereophile rated it Class A and comparable to $15k MBL. My curiosity is peeked.
I just purchased pegasus,...firstly I was impressed. However I found out that it couses me fatigue after longer listeninng sessions of music like jazz for example. Then I found out that it realy has emphasys on frequencies between 2000 - 3000 Hz compared to my auna dac with BB OPA which generaly has worm sound, anyway I believe Pegasus is a bit over average strong, in this unwanted frequency. Could be that coused by faulty unit? Because I did not find any rewiev mentioning this kind of charecter of Pegasus.
That's going to be relative across devices because it's impossible to say what's right/wrong. I find a lot of Aune devices to be a bit too smooth and warm so one could just as easily say that the Aune is wrong, but the reality is that it's just different. I think you're probably experiencing the situation where you're used to the combination of your current headphones/earphones with the Aune and they perhaps don't match as well with the SG1 for your tastes.
@@PassionforSound thank you,...I am keeping the pegasus,...the initial impression is stil there, its overal sound presentation is somthing and I managed to eq down 2 - 3 khz by 1.5 db resulting in abou 2.5 in between so I feel safer now :),
I'm glad to hear that! I believe different firmware versions might change the sound a bit too so you could look around for other firmware of you're interested
Fantastic and insightful comparison! While the Qutest was not part of this comparison, do you feel it’s better, below or at the same level as the Pontus II in terms of SQ?
The Qutest displaced my Gungnir Multibit back when I got it so the fact that Yggy OG beats Pontus II and is better than Gumby would suggest that Qutest will be better than Pontus II. I'd love to see how Qutest and Yggy compare!
Just my two pence worth but i had a Qutest for 18 months, later using it with a linear power supply, but i changed it for a Denefrips Ares 2 and i definitely felt that was a better DAC than the Qutest. I then upgraded Ares to Pontus and that was another step up again. for example, i like Radiohead and some of their more experimental and very busy tracks were just a jumbled mess of sound with the Qutest. That improved significantly with the Ares, and they are now a joy to listen to with the Denefrips. i could name dozens of songs with either very congested computerized type notes/tones or songs with very deep bass that the Qutest just couldn't reproduce properly, yet the Denefrips Ares made a much better stab at it and then the Pontus was able to nail it - - Note: i use/used both Denefrips in O/S mode slow filter - Amp is an Auris HA2 SF and headphones were Focal Clear and then Meze Empyreans with Meze silver cable.
I have the Pontus II and borrowed my friends Qutest to A/B and to my ears it was hard to pick up any differences except Qutest is more mid forward and the Pontus have more airy space between the notes. In the end I couldn’t decide which one I like most so when a Hugo 2 came along on used market I had to buy it to compare it with my Pontus over a longer period. So far after a month or so I still can’t decide as Hugo 2/Qutest adds more weight to vocals while I still enjoy the holographic sound of the Pontus. The filters on the Qutest is also a great feature as it can add more bass if you want it which is a really nice pairing with my Cayin Ha-300B and Susvara :)
Both are great DACs so it's always going to be hard to choose and often will come down to the particular track as to which sounds better. Glad you got to spend time with both!
Holo May is on a different level of performance to any of these. I'd say Pontus II is headed in a similar direction in terms of sound quality and performance and I'd likely choose Pontus II over the Spring, but May is brilliant!
I still slightly prefer the TT2 because of the inbuilt amp and preamp capabilities so the value it provides is excellent. You can also use HQ Player on both if you want to so the TT2 is my preference, but May is also outstanding and will appeal to some people more.
@@PassionforSound you are absolutely correct sir, I apologize. The musician Pegasus. I loved the review and the Pegasus addresses the issues that made the Ares not worthy as a mmo RPG gaming dac. I Dont necessarily need fps pinpoint accuracy in surround but dolby encoding is important for immersion in story driven rpgs and mmos.
I'm not aware of any R2R DACs that will process Dolby Surround formats, Robert. However, if the processing is done in the software and output as an augmented stereo signal (i.e. a stereo signal altered to create the surround effect) then it should be absolutely fine.
And yet, I don't love most Burr Brown devices I've tried. It's been a long time since I tried an iFi DAC so I need to revisit that if I get the chance, but there's always been something missing for me with the BB DACs
I can't answer that, Robert. I've done my best on a different comment of yours, but I've not used the software so I don't know what exactly it's outputting
@@PassionforSound Actually i think ive solved it. I was misunderstanding whats happening. the software is virtually synthesizing surround and unlike a receiver isnt putting out actual dolby signal. so i tested it on 3 dacs and i still get "surround sound" from the dolby software since its not actually dolby signal but software trickery
Do you have any plans to have a look at the Musician Aquarius? I've recently just got the Aquarius and the Phoenix DDC combo and I'm VERY happy. It's just the kind of 'analogue' sound I was chasing after for years! The thing that really did it I think was the DDC with the OCXO. Tight clocks do make a massive difference with R2R DACs I find. You mentioned after care with Musician though... My Phoenix came with a wobbly transformer!! I was worried to say the least. A quick tighten of with an allen key did the trick though.
I will say as well. I do wish the Phoenix shared more of the design with the Aquarius. The text on the front of the Phoenix is two different fonts, whereas on the Aquarius the font is unified. The buttons are also different between the two. The brush of the aluminium goes a different way on the top panel between them. The faceplate is thicker on the Aquarius. The side panels don't match either. And, most egregious of all, the dimensions of the boxes don't match! Placing the Aquarius on top of the Phoenix gives me quite a sizable overhang at the back! Giving that both of these are their TOTL units I thought they should use the same design. It seems like the boxes were made in a different factory or something? I'm surprised Sandu didn't pick up on all this in his review of the duo. But! The sound is absolutely fantastic, so it's kind of nit picking really. I chose these because I wanted a high precision, fully balanced, OCXO timed, fully discrete R2R DAC setup (digital head-fi done 'properly' imo) for a relatively affordable price. And I couldn't be more pleased with the sound. Granted, I haven't had years of gear auditioning.
Musician have actually reached out to me and explained what happened (without making excuses) so I think there'll be some more Musician products on the channel in future which is great. Glad to hear how much you're enjoying the Phoenix and Aquarius!
@@PassionforSound I look forward to hearing your opinions on the Aquarius! I found it sounding a little bit thin on it's own, but with the Phoenix in place it sounds nicely full-bodied.
The Musician Pegasus is one of my all time favorite DAC's. I think it has a more "beautiful" and "musical" sound than some dacs that cost many times more. I hope they continue to make great gear at reasonable price points.
You forgot to throw in Chord dacs into the mix! How does the mojo 2/qutest fare against these beasts. I remember that you rated the mojo 2 around the same as the bifrost 2 but not the 2/64.
I'll generally always use the balanced outputs for these sorts of comparisons and will always say otherwise if I don't. In this case, it was balanced outputs from all DACs.
Thanks for doing this review. I have the Hifiman EF400 R2R/DAC and and since you also reviewed that, I wonder how you think the sound quality of tha EF400 R2R DAC stage compares to these? Thanks in advance!
The EF400 is nice, but it's a decent step behind these DACs based on my experiences (I think I compared the EF400 and Bifrost 2 in my big all-in-one shootout video)
I found it interesting that you preferred the oversampling mode. I have the Holo May and it's almost permanently on non oversampling. On the May, the R2R is overridden when its oversampling and goes all Delta sigma. I thought it was the same with your example DACs
I don't know how it works exactly on all these models, but oversampling is used to help filter out issues caused by the digital to analog reconstruction process so it can be theoretically helpful depending on how it's done
That's a tough one. I think I covered it off in my J3 review, but the J3 with Sparkos 2590s probably has a very slight edge. Bifrost 2 is still brilliant though.
They're quite similar (depending on the quality of your cables), but I believe Mike Moffat (Schiit's lead digital expert) favours coaxial so I'd go with that
@PassionforSound ok I'm now using coaxial cable , for my stream and xlr from bitfrost to jotuneim 2 and oh boy the sound is so realistic , better than the way I had it at first
@PassionforSound oh by the way , wave you tuber advised me to try the rca connection and that should help take away some of the thin sound I was hearing via the balance xlr connection and it did .
I've been debating the original bifrost 2 vs the qutest for quite a while, and its left me stuck. Without the opportunity to try before I buy, I'd gotten the impression from reviews and forums that maybe the qutest was closer to what I want soundwise, but, the bifrost is balanced and quite importantly for me, has an iec power socket so that I can use power cables that dont have any proximity effect problems. But I always came back to the feeling that the qutest might win it in separation and clarity. I'd be very interested to know whether the bifrost 2/64 closes that gap somewhat, and makes it an easier choice!
@@SonGokuhSSJ unfortunately I'm not in the position where I can swap and change things. It will take time to save up to buy something like this, and once its done, I wont be buying another dac again. So it is important that I "overthink" and make sure that the final decision is the correct one
I have never had the chance to compare the two side-by-side, but knowing that the Qutest was better than my old Gungnir Multibit (Unison 5, Analog 1 version), I'd expect the Qutest to still edge out the Bifrost 2. However... if you don't have the two side-by-side to compare, I doubt you'll ever feel like you're missing a thing and the BF2/64 brings them even closer to the point that maybe they're at identical performance levels. If BF2 suits your preferences in terms of being balanced and mains powered then go for it! You won't regret it I think
@@PassionforSound I dont know much about the gungnir, other than it being a higher priced model than the bifrost 2, and I'd have assumed better performing. So, do you feel that the 2/64 would outperform the gungnir as well then?
@@shreddherring Gungnir hasn't been updated in a while. The OG Bifrost 2 was already very close to the Gungnir to the point that Schiit did not update the op-amps in the Bifrost 2, presumably to hold it back a bit compared to the Gungnir. The 2/64 upgrade takes it even closer in performance to the point where I would not really recommend a Gungnir over a Bifrost 2. EIther get the Bifrost 2/64 and save some cash or hold out for something better than both Gungnir and Bifrost 2. My recommendation if you are in the market for an R2R DAC like the Schiit multibits is to get a Denafrips Pontus. It's more expensive than the Bifrost 2/Gungnir but less than a Qutest and sounds better than all of them. It also has all the things you are looking for.
Thx for the very informative and video. I bought a bifrost 264 and have only access to coax. Do you know of an r2r dac in the price range 2 to 3 k where the coax sound is equal as the other inputs ? 🤔
There's generally no issue using any inputs on most modern DACs. I've almost stopped testing the various inputs because the differences between them are irrelevant and are no more significant than the differences between the interconnects used. In other words, I'd probably recommend the Pontus II or the next model up from Denafrips depending on exact pricing where you are.
@@PassionforSound Thx so much! That really helped me 👍I'm already deep into the hobby and you are the channel that confirms the most or maybe all things I experienced so far 👌
@@PassionforSound one last question I would really like to to know is whether you tried (a) different power cable(s) on your dacs and which differences that made. Because if this is an upgrade I would happily do at first if there is one. If so which power cables can you refer to when using the bifrost 264 🤔
I use all Supra power cables and filtering power boards for my audio gear (I've got a full review on the channel - just search Supra LoRad Passion for Sound) Power cables are a subtle upgrade for gear, but I do think they're a worthwhile step and the good news is that, once you own them, they work on all future gear too.
I don't think there's enough difference to say any input is better or worse. Given that the interconnect chosen can also influence the sound, I'd say they're as close as makes no difference
Hi Lachlan, do you perceive a quality difference in the output by RCA vs XLR? I have the Pontus but I’m not able to use the balanced-XLR outputs with my Naim Supernait 3 (only RCA and DIN inputs..) So I’m curious if I’m missing out on some extra SQ by not using XLR out on the Pontus… Thanks in advance
I didn't actually test this with the Pontus - sorry! I wouldn't expect much difference other than maybe a subtly different soundstage presentation, but that's just my estimation based on experiences with other devices.
For anyone who is watching for 2ch listening.. I think you should consider Ares(or the like) r2r. I own both Ares II & Bitfrost 2/64. Hands down, Ares II is better in almost every way. I have never had headphones(I see that changing one day), but I get the sense that Schiit is built with headphone listening in mind.. I'm not sure why there would be such a difference between headphones and 2ch when comparing gear, but there really is. Anyways.. one will never know unless you buy and try. :)
@@PassionforSound for part with fuller sound is burson can offer this ? As a pre I refer. I manage to purchase a farad super3 lps and farad offer custom mods for burson to work with it.
It would depend a lot on which op-amps you install in the Burson, but that's the beauty of their products - you can adjust them to your tastes. Keep in mind though that you're starting with a pure delta sigma DAC if you're going with a Burson
The Pontus II has dual power supplies - one for the digital section, and one for the analog section. Did you get a look inside the Pegasus? On the Bifrost 2/64, I may be in the minority, but in the default OS mode, it just sounded a bit hard and grainy, and even approached harsh on some recordings. I much prefer it in NOS mode. I liked the Ares II better than the Bifrost 2 (but I have not directly compared the Ares II with the Bifrost 2/64). I like the bass on the Bifrost 2, but I like the airiness and layering of the Ares II. As I have mentioned before - I am using the Geshelli J2 AKM with a 50W linear power supply - and I consider it much better than either the Ares II or the Bifrost 2/64. I *was* considering the Pontus II and the Pegasus, and the Ladder Schumann - all R2R DACs. But no more - the J2 AKM is continuing to be all I need/want from a DAC. I am looking forward to your review!
I'm looking forward to the J2 AKM review too. No news on it yet, but I'm sure it'll happen once the backlogs are all clear with Geshelli. As for the Pegasus power supply, it doesn't have dual power supplies so maybe it's an Ares II clone after all.
@@PassionforSound Right - it certainly looks like it is. It lacks the second coax input that the Ares II has, though. I use 2 coax cables - one from my Node 2i (also with an LPS upgrade) and the other from my Audiolab CDT6000 CD transport. The J2 has two coax; though one is on the front, making it a little less convenient - the cable has to be routed kind of awkwardly.
@@dansisternas9158 I have upgraded to the J2S AKM 4499EX. I am using the Sparkos SS2590 dual mono unit in the RCA socket. I am using a custom LPS from Pine Tree Audio. It is glorious!
It depends on your budget. The Schiit Bifrost is fantastic, Yggdrasil is better. You can also spend more and get better still so budget is key. What are you looking to spend?
It is, however, headphones reveal as much or more about DACs as speakers. I've tried both headphones and speakers and not once have I found something with speakers that I didn't already know from the headphones.
I'm a bit surprised you dislike the Ares II these days - but I also feel the A2 is a little bit like the SA-1, great for the time but issues have arisen. I'm considering selling on my SA-1/Ares II stack, maybe get a Gungnir (if they update it) and Mjolnir 3?
I think at this point, the Gungnir isn't a great choice and the BF2/64 probably makes more sense. I would definitely choose the BF2/64 over the Ares II too
Sort of. I had it repaired by a local technician friend, but Musician have contacted me and said they are aware of the problem and have therefore resolved it and are also addressing the customer service / communication issues. Hopefully future purchasers will have smooth sailing.
@@PassionforSound well, while it is good to hear that they are picking up their slag, I have already put my money in the R26. It is as of now, and probably for a long while to come, my favorite and “end game DAC”.
@@PassionforSound I didn’t find any negative report but I wish they made better use of the screen size. It’ll be better to have the menu items on the bigger side of the screen instead of the narrow side. Old man like me have to use a magnifying glass each time I want to play around with the selections. I haven’t heard many DACs, this is the best so far and I really like the pairing with iFi Pro iCAN Signature with the options of XBass, 3D, Tube and Tube+ options. Even when I pair the R26 with the Topping A90 (D90SE has been sold), it sounds good. This DAC really made all my headphones much much better sounding to me. And, there is still more to explore with this DAC, many reported that LAN brings the DAC to another level and there’s the external clock option. I am not technical at all, just a plug and play person so lots of learning and exploring to do.
You rock how you can retain all those nuances in your mind with the various systems and being able to clearly communicate your findings is impressive and ever so helpful and intriguing
Thank you. I do have notes that I take during the listening tests so it's not completely from memory so much as prompted by some key points to jog my recollection of each device. 😁
Another thoughtful and "measured" review from Passion for Sound. Appreciate the lack of hype. Thanks for your work.
My pleasure! Glad you liked it 🙂
I've been extremely happy with my Bifrost 2/64, but have been using it exclusively with my speaker systems. You've given me some interest in swapping it into my headphone system (currently using the Ares 2).
It'll be interesting to see how you enjoy it with headphones. Ares II is also very popular with speaker uses so maybe a swap will bring you benefits in both systems
if you have an Ares 2 you could check out what HEADquarter Audio has to say about it. This guy is deeply into hardware tuning - he suggests to unscrew and carefully rescrew the XLR sockets on the back in the case. Apparently this improves the sound noticeably, I guess because the action can reduce tension on the circuit board where all the resistors are on, nearby (perhaps flattens it just a bit, which in theory could make quite a difference because warping could change the distance between the resisistors by a minimal amount). Even if it doesn't really do something, it is worth a try, because it takes a few minutes and you are not even opening up the Ares.
Interesting
I spent many hours last weekend comparing Bifrost 2/64, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil+ LIM. Happy to post comments if you like.
Comments are always welcome. I'd be interested in particular to know how BF2/64 and Gumby compare
So any updated news about your comparison ?
@@PassionforSound The BF 2/64 is more hifi sounding, more refined than GMB. It has lower noise floor, better blackround, better detail retrieval, better imaging, as good bass response, but better treble than Gungnir MB A2 Unison. I personally can't think of any way the GMB was any better to my ears, so I sold it.
I also did a direct A/B with Yggdrasil LIM and BF 2/64 using XLR output on each DAC to a Schiit Freya S+ and 2x Tyr setup. I was doing the A/B with another guy and we both came to similar conclusions: the BF 2/64 sounded fuller with better treble. The LIM had better mid-range and timbre, better detail retrieval, better instrument separation, and better blackground/lower noise floor than the BF 2/64. But we're splitting hairs, not night and day. The BF 2/64 can do 90-95% of what the LIM can do (if not better in a few respects) and it can do it at 33% the price.
@@spirosaktipis1275 posted above.
That's really interesting! Thank you for taking the time and sharing that.
I recently got a Gustard R26 R2R DAC and am loving it! I liked it so much I sold my Schiit Gungnir MultiBit.
I keep hearing good things about the R26. Now I just have to get my hands on one to review... 🙂
@@PassionforSound yeah, that's the one I'd like you to weigh in on.
I've bought one and the review is in the schedule. It's still a while away though...
I watched this video like 5x already , love to see comparisons against below , mid , and high prices compete ..love you work passion
So glad you're enjoying it!
Denafrips customer service is indeed top notch. I've owned my Pontus II for just over a year now and I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase.
Have you had any problems with your Pontus?
@photographyinflight4183 none at all. I've been very happy with the Pontus II.
Thanks very much again for the reviews and comparisons. You've now covered most of the DAC's I've had my eye on :) If you're able to get a hold of Gustard's new DAC's: then that would really round out my options :)
1. R26 (R2R discrete topology)
2. A26 (AKM delta-sigma topology)
Regarding some matching and stacked headphone amps I'm considering are: to be used with Sennheiser HD800S
1. Denafrips Artemis (Class A SS topology)
2. Gustard H20 Pro (Class A SS topology) - due out 2023
3. Schiit Audio - I hear some new analogue releases are due out Q1 2023, so I'm keen to see what is released
Glad I've been able to help! I'm still trying to get a supplier for Gustard gear - it's proving tricky.
Great review. Thanks. Something for me in the US is support and upgradeability of Schiit, that is not comparable to any others let alone Chinese DACS and amps. I had yggi OG USB Gen 5 4 years ago now I have yggi + OG with Unison USB.. I had Bifrost 2, and now I have Bifrost 2/64. Maybe exist but I have not heard of any manufacturer that gives you this level of upgradability and support.
You're totally right. Schiit are unique for their upgradeable designs and they're only getting stronger in that regard it seems. Glad you liked the review!
I had that EXACT SAME comment about the loose bass on the Pontus! I felt like it had all the tools to be better than my Gumby, but the Gumby was delivering more often. Great review. Thanks!
Thanks for confirming what I was hearing - it's always helpful. Glad to hear you're enjoying your Gumby!
Thank you as always for your clear, concise, and honest perceptions/opinions.
Always a pleasure! Glad it was helpful
Very nice review. Comparisons give context. I had Pontus 2 and i loved it. I wasn't that impressed with Ares 2. I recently got a dac based on Philips TDA1540, the first chip for digital ever made and i am very happy.
Interesting you should mention that. I've got an Abbas DAC on loan for review from a patron and I think it's using the TDA1541 (definitely something in that line of DAC chips). It sounds great!
@@PassionforSound I never got to try one of the Abbas dacs. Minimalist designs with only NOS components used all over. Lucky you!
Hi!, can you share the model and brand of your TDA1540 DAC? Thanks
@@octaviodiaz938 Hi Octavio. I replied to you but unfortunately my reply was deleted by TH-cam. This is not the first time this happens to me.
Sorry about the TH-cam bots deleting things. It's outside my control ☹️
What a great comparison. Thank you. I'm rooting for Schiit, but I really wish they could add DSD decoding to their DACs. The Yggy OG sounds like the sound signature I'm looking for.
The Yggy OG is a beast. There is some talk about their USB circuit accepting higher sample rates in the future, but I'm not sure if that will translate to DSD capabilities, especially on their Multibit DACs
love the jazzy piano number you used in the B-Roll!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for letting me know 🙂
nice one Lachlan..... looking forward to the Venus II review soon
That would be good. I'll have to see what I can arrange 🙂
Anxiously awaiting delivery of my Bifrost 2 Gen 5 from ebay. $350 shipped. Since modular, can upgrade the board and still come in under the price of new. Plus....I like that is made in the US. Originally was going for Ares 2, but when I found the Bifrost at this price, I bought on the spot.
Nice one. Enjoy!
Interesting review. I recall you had Yggy OG beating Holo Spring 3 as well and other users generally place Holo Spring 3 and Pontus on a similar level. On a sound demo, the reviewer Terry Ellis demonstrates Musician Audio Aquarius (which critically included OCXO clocks) beating Pontus on instrument separation and detail. That one might be a good competitor for Yggy OG.
Yes, Yggy OG is the best DAC I've tried around the price with the possible exception of the Qutest, but I've never had them side-by-side. After I posted this, Musician reached out to me and we might be able to collaborate again in the future so let's see what I can try and how it sounds 🙂
What you have there in the b-roll is a nice Schiit Sandwich. Your Power has quickly become one of my favorite tracks ever, it's really fantastic.
Haha. It sure is! 💩
That whole album is brilliant IMO
I really like this comparison video. One thing I find lacking is what input we were listening to on each of the DACs. I prefer the AES input on my Yggy OG very slightly over the Unison USB input. Very nice review!
Glad you liked it, Tom! I tend to always use USB for comparisons of DACs because it seems to be the most commonly used input for most people (not all, I know) and I like to have a level playing field. Trying to cover all the variabilities between different inputs on different devices would get long and complicated, but I agree with you that some devices perform slightly better from certain inputs.
@@PassionforSound I would like to know your experience comparing the balanced and unbalanced outputs. I’ve heard other reviewers say that the difference in the two outputs is less on the Bifrost than many other dacs. I need a DAC I can start with single ended to keep my old receiver limping along but I have monoblocks with balanced and unbalanced inputs. I plan on getting to a complete balanced signal path but need something to start that also performs well on the single ended outputs which perhaps don’t get the attention I’d like from many of the manufacturers. Do you think the Bifrost might perform well in this regard?
I definitely think the Bifrost is good in that regard. There is very little difference between the RCA and XLR outputs. Hope that helps!
@@PassionforSoundThe reason there's little to no difference between the 2 is because there is none. Balanced and single ended operation is not compatible. If you are mixing the 2, steps have to be taken to make the connection the same at both ends. With home audio 90%of the time, the connection defaults to single ended. And the reason for this is simple. A balanced connection requires 3 conductors. 2 signal, 1 ground, and a single ended connection requires 2 conductors, one signal and 1 ground. On the balanced component something has to be done with the 3rd pin. It has electricity running through it with no place to go. At this point I have to stop. How that 3rd pin gets dealt with can differ quite a bit. There's more than one way a component can be balanced. And after a choice is made on how to do it, there are other options, as well. So, even if you have 2 pieces of equipment that are balanced, what was done to make them balanced can be different.
With all that being said, the point is that when he connects the 2 pieces, the connection will not be balanced. Using the xlr outputs will be identical to using the rca outputs. If you want to verify that the connection isn't balanced, its very easy to do. When you balance a signal, you naturally end up with 4-6db higher output on the balanced connection. Try it both ways and if the balanced connection isn't louder than the SE connection, its not balanced.
Think I will stick with the Yggy OG and look at getting a second pair of speakers that's not as lively. The R2R DAC still sounds more natural to me than the good delta-sigma DAC I was using before. Resolution is arguably not any better, but I don't care.
The Yggy is still one of the best DACs around for its price. Nice choice IMO 🙂
Very direct criticism about the Pegasus. I have seen many reviews from you but never so much and so direct criticism about a brand, and I believe you are still holding back. I think it is good that you just say what your gut feeling is telling you.. valuable information for potential buyers. 👍
Yes, I always try to give products and brands the benefit of the doubt, but this one was pretty inexcusable. Any sense of me holding back is purely because I'm making some assumptions about them based on what I've seen, but with no hard evidence. I don't want to over-influence people even though my gut says I would never buy a product from Musician
Looks like the Pegasus is a "me-too" product. A marketing term for a copied product.
I didn't know that one - thanks
Thanks for the great review! I hope you can get the new modi multibit 2 in for review and compare it to the old one.
I can't compare to the old one, but I'll have the Modi+, Modi MB2, Magni+, Magni Heretic and Magni Piety in a video very soon
Excellent reviews. This is a much welcome and needed shootout. The reviews for non-sigma DACs run the gamete and have a lot of pre-disposed feelings mixed in. You may already have a video but I feel many here would be well served by you taking the time for a an R2R vs. DS comparison. Not which is necessarily "better " but the pros and cons and use case differences
It seems to me that most DS DACs are limited by both the op-amps put inside to keep the price low and keep the size small (as opposed to discrete class A designs like the Gustard X26 Pro) and all of them are limited by the rather basic filters. For me the solution has been to get a well-designed DAC (the Gus) which also has the option to bypass its internal filtering and then feed it HQPlayer-upsampled (and already PCM to DSD converted) signal with the filter of my choice. The difference between this set-up and something like the Topping D90 is night and day. I would be surprised if any of the DACs reviewed here could come close to the sound this produces as the filters are even more advanced than Chord products'.
It also didn't cost that much in comparison so I couldn't be happier.
I definitely agree with this, Michal.
Greymatterstome, the R2R vs DS topic is a really interesting one, but hard to summarise in a single video because a lot going on with the questions of system synergy and taste added to factors like the filters used by most chip DACs (AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic, etc.) and then also the output stages as Michal said.
The short summary is that DACs built on ESS, AKM, etc. are always going to lack soundstage layering and depth and will tend to present a very left-right wall of sound which some people prefer because it pushes details forwards, but that's still a gross oversimplification.
Lovely review, I absolutely love the energy my Yggy OG brings in a speaker setup. I think in headphones though I do appreciate DACs that stage a little larger, of course there is so many variables but like you said they're all good in different ways.
Glad you liked it! Yggy continues to impress, but I agree that it's not the perfect DAC for all setups 🙂
Snow- if you don’t mind sharing, what are your favorite DAC’s for headphones?
@@Ray-dl5mp I haven’t heard everything out there but I very much agree with Lachlan’s ears. I’ve heard the Ares II and it’s too soft/slow for me. Chord stuff I find very clean on its own but they seem to work really well with tube amps.
I tried a Holo May + Soloist GT at CanJam and that might have been my favourite setup but not cheap!
@@snowrang3r657 Yeah Lachlan hasn't sterred me wrong yet. I love my SA-1 (big reason I got it was his review). Finally got a fully balanced setup with my modius and I'm blown away. Everything sounds amazing on this thing with my HD600's. Surprised how a lot of orchestra sounds way better than I thought was possible on these headphones too. Just very happy overall, makes you love the hobby when you find something that is so damn good. But of course now I'm curious, should I update the modius to BF2 or something else, ha. But still loving it so far. : ) thanks for your thoughts!
@@snowrang3r657 My favorite so far for headphones setups is Gustard R26 and Soloist GT. I also just added the Gustard U18 DDC and Gustard C18 clock. All I can say is wow. Sounds good to my ears.
Great review, after watching I'm very glad I own a Bifrost 2, maybe one day I can step up to the Yggy.
Thanks again for your work.
Glad you liked the review. Have you upgraded to the BF2/64? It's totally worth it IMO and will bring you quite close to the Yggy sound
Great review and summary of these DACS.
I bought the Musician Draco and it works really well taming my bright system/room and giving me some of that vinyl type sound I have been missing.
I have found that the Draco responds well to mounting spikes, and a decent Supra Excalibur cable which add energy to the sound without affecting smoothness.
I bought the Draco through Ali Express for $699 and have always found their return/refund policy very fair.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Nick. Glad you're enjoying the Draco and the Excalibur would be a great choice of USB for the smoother R2R DACs
Just upgraded to the Bifrost 2/64 from the Modius and the first thing I noticed was how much less grainy the sound was. I'm still using the Magnius amp and should be receiving the Jotunhiem 2 today. So I will be comparing both setups to each other to confirm my findings.
You're in for a treat. Enjoy!
Gustard r26 and Aqua La Voce s3 would be next on my suggestion if you ever get access to either product. Fantastic comparison on these though the value of the new bf2 cannot be denied.
Both models that are high on my radar for future reviews if I can get my hands on them
Super review Lachlan! Honest and straight forward.
I'm glad you liked it! 🙂
I have been looking at the Benchmark and the RME DACs for quite some time, but just could never bring myself to commit to the price tags. I think the 2/64 will be an excellent go to instead.
I think it's a better choice. I rarely get the same enjoyment from Sigma Delta DACs like I do from Schiit Multibit or Chord DACs
Just ordered the 2/64 today from Schiits Site but it's out about 10+ weeks.
Ouch. It's a long wait, but worthwhile
Musician as a company exists because the designer behind Denafrips wanted to have more percentage of the sales than Denafrips gave him. Musician DACs are basically further improved designs by the same designer in his own company. That is why they are similar.
I would also add, that the Pegasus technicalities improve a lot with an upgrade fuse like SR Purple Fuse.
Yea. There is nothing iffy about the Musician brand. They are from the same company that makes the Denafrips products. But this approach from the Chinese company just confounds the western users, who are not used to a manufacturer blatantly making similar products under different brandnames. For example, most toasters may be made by one OEM company but since designs are different w different brandnames, no one really questions if there is anything wrong. For this, we can only blame the company behind musician and denafrips for confusing their worldwide audience.
I heard some youtube critics on denafrips clones Rockna's r2r dac but make it much more affordable by cutting corners.
Say more about the fuse? Is it an AC power fuse?
That's interesting info, Berkanan!
@@NeilBlanchard actually there are two fuses; if I remember correctly one is used for 220V and both for 110V, and on forums it is mentioned too that replacing the standard fuse(s) improves performance.
I have a Pegasus, and I was aware of the customer support issues with this brand. I just bought it through a trusted European distributor - Audiophonics - so any potential warranty issues will have to be solved by the distributor.
Thank you. Very interesting. I'd love to hear your take on the different Yggy variations.
Glad you liked it. We tried to arrange a 3-way Yggy comparison when the LIM and MIL versions were released, but it's a big expense for Schiit to send out review units
Banger. Good one, PFS.
I’ve had 3 Denafrips products and never had a reason to have to contact them for issues - I had an issue with a Freya+ however that required a warranty fix. As far as the dacs compared here, it’s more of a features and personal sound signature preference/price consideration than anything else. All of them will sound pretty good.
Yes, they'll all sound great. I do think it's worth spending more on the Pontus II and Yggy OG for people wanting max performance, but there's definitely no bad choice here
Hello, I would think the better comparison with The Yiggy would be the Denafrips Venus. I have both and prefer the Venus.
I can only work with what I have, but I'm keen to try the Venus if I get the chance
Thanks for bringing up the service. For units this expensive you have to have something workable. It's not a $50 unit from aliexpress.
Absolutely! I believe Musician are honestly trying to improve there, but I can only talk about the current experiences which were poor.
Most of the current dac uses the same r2r design that originated from Netherlands (if I remember correctly) and you can find the r2r ladders online which looks very similar to those in Denafrips units or Musician units. I honestly believe they came from the same manufacturer hence them sounding quite similar.
I think r2r is where you really get more for the money you pay for, especially seeing what Holo is able to make with the black custom pcb and stuff.
That's interesting about the ladder design being from a single source.
When I visited the Schittr in California in late 2018, I heard the progression from Modi to Yggdrasil. Once I heard multibit, I couldn't go back. I already owned a Modi Multibit and still appreciate the relaxed, coherent sound although it lacks detail compared to its more expensive brethren.
Great that you got to try them for yourself and hear what each step up brings! I've got the new Modi Multibit 2 here now and I'm looking forward to reviewing it soon
I have the OG MM with the Vali 2++. The combination is extremely musical. There is sense of organic naturalness that is very pleasing.
Great review. Your r2r dac comparisons are really valuable and irreplaceable.
Btw, I love to see schiit can release a new Gungnir.
Did you see his interview? Gumby is gonna be phased out due to demand and supply chain constraints
@@Maver1ck911 I did not, sigh. Thanks for the info. I hope they can put something for 1200-1500 usd range.
@@mar2ky yea I hope so too. It’s just tough probably for Schiit to know what to do in that price range because Biifrost appeals to so many people because of the price under $1k and by all accounts is a great dac subjectively. So the Yggy is like the gold standard but has huge drawbacks like size and price. So if they release a mini Yggy, everyone would buy it but then there would be no point to the more expensive one. And not sure if they can even reduce the size easily and do what they are doing. The only option I could really see if you make a better version of Biifrost for 1k-1.2k but I don’t even know what that would be.
@Mark tbh. Balanced, while better for headroom (hotter line level output) and peace of mind (shielding and ground loop elimination) and taking advantage of full balanced design (so you don't use a summed single ended output)... isn't necessary in 2023.
Keep an eye out for used Yggy OG's or LIM versions
@@Maver1ck911 it’s nice if you need the extra power for EQ set ups. Even the objective guy Amir suggests balanced. But I agree if you don’t have a big negative pre amp setting for eq or you don’t use eq, then balanced is probably not needed. It’s all about having enough power for what you’re tying to do.
I was contemplating buying the Bifrost but was put off a bit by the poor measurements on ASR. Yggy also measures poorly. Not sure why that can be when subjective sound quality appears to be very good ?
The measurements don't tell the whole story because there are some measurements that ASR don't do and also we don't necessarily completely understand how to interpret all measurements to make a complete picture of the subjective experience. Great measuring gear can sound great and it can sound flat and lifeless. "Poorly" measuring gear (i.e. not top of the SINAD chart) can also sound great or it can sound terrible too
@@PassionforSound I agree that it may be difficult to interpret how the measurements will affect sound quality. I think Amir from ASR himself doesn't necessarily know how important Sinad is. However without looking back at the original evaluations, distortion was measured for Bifrost and Yggy which should be audible and therefore not a good thing and Amir could not recommend them.
It all depends on the type of distortion (2nd order, 3rd order, intermodulation vs static noise, etc.) and, probably more importantly, is the fact that the levels of distortion Amir might consider unsatisfactory are often still way below the distortion levels of a headphone driver so it's a bit of a non-issue and the Yggy OG continues to be one of the subjectively best sounding DACs I have tried at the price.
@@PassionforSound Can I ask if you did this comparison test blind as expectation bias can also influence subjective listening tests. If you have read or listened to reviews from other reviewers you are expecting a piece of gear to sound a certain way and then you are looking for those things when listening so you are priming yourself to make a similar assessment of a product. Also you may not really want to disagree with other reviewers for fear of being the only one to think differently about something. I am not saying you would do this knowingly but sometimes we may not be fully aware of the things influencing us.
I have tried blind testing and sighted testing in the past and both have their drawbacks. I'll do a video about this in the future.
The short answer is that I didn't blind test, but I also hadn't watched reviews of the Pegasus or Pontus II and I've owned the BF264 and Yggy OG for ages now. I also make a point of deliberately testing my first impressions by coming back at a later time and listening again while seeking to prove my original impressions wrong. This is a way we can overcome unconscious biases if they are present.
Based on your questions, I'd guess that you're splitting time between ASR and the rest of the audio world. Please be mindful that the ASR community as a whole has a fairly singular, black and white view of this hobby. In my experience, there's a LOT of grey area that's not completely understood scientifically and also there's the grey areas of preference, taste and synergies between gear.
I'm not discouraging you from visiting ASR, just encouraging that you maintain an open mind and keep asking questions without forming your own pre-conceived ideas of what's right and wrong.
Hi ,
I have the bifrost 2 OG and also the 2/64 dac card….. currently i am using it as a bifrost 2/64 dac…. i am curious to the denafrips(both area 2 and pontus 2) being a r2r ladder…. many say that
1) the instruments depth of layering , separation is more in pontus 2 compared to bifrost 2/64… instruments feel more stretched into depth in denafrips they say….i am curious to know is this true ?
2) many say that the instruments reverb/reflection details in space are in more in pontus 2 compared to bifrost 2/64 , is this true.?
i do not own a r2r ladder dac like denafrips area 2 or pontus 2 , i only own bifrost 2 og and 2/64 …. so i was curious to know from you..
I do think the Pontus 2 produces more sense of depth in the soundstage so that's true. I'm not sure about the room reflections though and would need to try them both again to be certain of that one. Unfortunately, the Pontus 2 was on loan so I don't have it here to check.
I know this video is old but does anyone know how bad the Yggdrasil's relay clicking is audible between tracks? I'm close to pull the trigger on a used Yggy in preference to the Pontus.
It will only click when changing sample rates which means it won't interrupt gapless playback of a single album. When it does click, it's about the same as most other relay-based devices I've tried. It's not loud enough to hear in another room, but it's loud enough that you won't miss hearing it when you're in the same room.
@@PassionforSound thank you for the detailed response. That is exactly what I needed. Thank you so much.
I wanted to thank you for this video and your recent reply. I ended up with the Pontius 2 12th anniversary. I'm astounded with the sound. It's not like the occasional track gains missing details. Every track is like a new recording. The instruments no longer hug the individual speakers but finally sounds contiguous across the soundstage. This video and your response was very helpful to me. Thanks! 😊
That's wonderful news! Thanks so much for letting me know.
Nice ! When can we expect Zmf Atrium and Caldera comparisons? And how they pair with different dacs and amps :)) Thanks for your work !
Co masz w kolekcji Michał, bo widze że górna półka cie interesuje. Ja sam amatorsko zagłębiam się w sprzet i muzykę
@@soulfulfool Siemasz, Denafrips Pontus 2 12th, Singxer Sa1, Singxer Su6, Hifiman Arya Stelth, Kable xlr pure silver, kabel 3.5mm 3m silver copper hybrid
My Caldera review came out recently with all that info, Michal. 🙂
@@michabuszynski7326 Pontus 2 to juz wyzsza liga ja sie zastanawiam nad gustard r26. Mialem Arya ale wersja 2 nie przekonaly mnie bo gora byla sztuczna i za ostra, calkiem mozliwe ze twoj Pontus bylby w stanie to naprawic :). Singxer sa1 tez posiadam, kabel hybryde pewnie z Forzy masz. Ja osobiscie przestalem kupowac planary, wole moje dynamiki na lampowym wzmaku. Jak tak lubisz Arya to nie myslales nad Susvara? Cena podobna do Caldery
@@soulfulfool Polecam Denafrips Ares II, zrobilem upgrade wlasnie z tego. Na Gustard r26 bardzo sie zawiodlem. Napisalem dzis komenarz pod najnowszym jego filmem z przed 2 dni. Mialem r26 i oddalem zostawilem Ares 2 i teraz kupilem Pontus
Jaki masz wzmacniacz lampowy i jakie sluchawki ?
Ja chcę sprzedac Arya bo myślę ze kupie zmf atrium lub caldera
Hifiman juz mnie nie interesuje ze wzgledu na bulid quality i cene amp do susvary
I think you nailed nicely it with the sound comparisons. I got a Pegasus just because I wanted to tame my system a little bit - it was getting a tiny bit too analytical, and poor - particularly treble heavy - recordings scratched my ears too much. Pegasus is a bit more forgiving.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and confirming what I'm hearing. Glad the Pegasus hit the spot for you - it's definitely a nice DAC
@@PassionforSound I agree. I also like that you mention the potential issues with customer support of a (any) brand - it is important, because these products aren't cheap, and could break down. As I wrote elsewhere here, I got it through a more local distributor that I trust, and with regional (European) customer protection laws.
A direct link with a manufacturer can also be nice just to ask general questions and have discussions, or just tell them that they made a great product. That is a bit of a bummer with a brand like Musician - where this element is compromised.
Hopefully they're improving that side of things - I believe from what they've now said to me that it's their intention to do so.
My question is, would the Yggy give me a splitting headache after 15-20 minutes the way the sharp-sounding Bifrost 2 consistently did? Granted, this could well be a system synergy issue combined with a sensitivity to brightness on my part, but to me the Pontus 2 (my current DAC) sounds significantly more natural, dimensional, and listenable than the Bifrost.
That will be a system synergy thing, as you say. And yes, the Yggy won't help with that. Best to stick to the Pontus. 🙂
Which version of Yggy is compared? I understand LiM is considered the best.
He's comparing the Yggy OG. Not everyone likes the LIM better, apparently.
There's a fairly even split between OG and LIM based on everything I've read (and based on subjective impressions)
Thank you! Can you review the Gustard R26 is too R2R Dac plzzzzzzzzz...
I'd love to, but I've had no luck getting a review unit so far ☹️
for me my set up. pontus2 wins over r26. r26 has good soundstage, 3d holographic. sound detail. but. pontus2 has life like mid micro detail top notch that gives you feeling. r26 dac has dead sound
I've got an R26 on the way. I'm keen to give it a try and see how it stacks up...
Upgrade the fuse, 20$ aucharm nano squeezes the last bits of sound out of them r2r dacs.
I'd love to play with some audiophile fuses in the future
Hi Lachlan, have you heard the Ladder Schumann Dac? Let's just say it kind of embarrassed my Hugo tt2 Scaler combo. Ok maybe that's a bit harsh. But I sold the Chord gear, bought the Schumann and had change left over... 😮 And I adored my Hugo tt2 and M scaler.
I'm keen to try one - haven't heard it yet
@@PassionforSound highly recommended
Question- where does mojo 2 fit amongst these - in regards to sound quality.
Good question! I think it's about on the same level as the Bifrost 2/64
Curious if you have any opinion on the Venus II 12th vs Yggy OG, about the same price once taxes/delivery factored into both.
I'm yet to hear the Venus II so I can't help there - sorry!
I said this in another video too but I hope Schiit can send you a LIM and OG Yggy+ so you can do a detailed comparison review. Seems like based on comments online both are loved by different people depending on the sound they are looking for. So I think that would be a great video that people want to see and might help Schiit sell some.
We tried to arrange that in the early days of the LIM and MIL versions, but it's a big expense for them to ship chunky DACs like that too Australia for review
@@PassionforSound ha yea. It's probably cheaper for them to pay for an all expenses trip for you to come to America. But they do I'm assuming make good profit on each one sold...but what do I know.
I think it's probably a balance of how much they want discussion of certain products compared to the cost of sending those products to reviewers like me. If the product is already selling well then they probably don't feel the need to invest the time and effort in sending out review units. On top of that, parts supplies have been limited at times recently so they'd need to prioritise the paying customers over reviewers
@@PassionforSound Yea that's true. They must be doing well as a company to keep coming out with new products pretty consistently. They probably don't need you to review it as much as I want you to. : ) but that just means I really respect your thoughts on things. Thanks for explaining.
I'd love to share it with you too, Ray. Glad I can provide some reliable info for you
What are your thoughts on R2R vs Chord DACs?
I generally prefer Chord DACs because R2R can be a bit too soft on the transients/attack. Chord DACs don't always provide the same amount of maximum soundstage space as R2R DACs, but they tend to provide more texture and image focus so it's all a trade-off
I really like your reviews...Would be great to try some entry level audio note DAC or some with Phillips TDA 1541 chip
I've actually got an Abbas DAC on loan from a patron and it runs a TDA1541 and sounds great.
As for Audio Note, I don't currently have any contacts with them, but I'm always on the lookout for new products to review
Sounds like your experience with Musician is like my experience with Kinki Studio. Absolute dead end ghosting. In these price points, it feels like such a betrayal.
Sorry to hear about that! I haven't tried anything from Kinki yet
My bitfrost 2/64 sounds kind of thin and the bass has no impact , I'm using optical connection. Also a jotuneim 2 amp
The usb connection on the bifrost is much better than the optical, so use this instead. I think this will solve the issue.
I didn't see this previously, but it is worth trying other connections if available although the slight differences that can be caused by different digital inputs/outputs won't transform a DAC's sound.
What are you comparing the Bifrost 2 to as an alternative?
Have you done a review on Manunta Evo DAC # ? If not, could you do one ?
I haven't tried that one and currently have no contact with M2Tech. That's not to say it won't happen, but I have no immediate plans.
Excellent comparison. Love your channel and need your help. Have you ever tried Octo Dac 8 Stereo? I can only find a few reviews but all exceptional. Stereophile rated it Class A and comparable to $15k MBL. My curiosity is peeked.
Glad you liked the video and the channel. Unfortunately, the Okto was new to me until I read your comments.
I just purchased pegasus,...firstly I was impressed. However I found out that it couses me fatigue after longer listeninng sessions of music like jazz for example. Then I found out that it realy has emphasys on frequencies between 2000 - 3000 Hz compared to my auna dac with BB OPA which generaly has worm sound, anyway I believe Pegasus is a bit over average strong, in this unwanted frequency. Could be that coused by faulty unit? Because I did not find any rewiev mentioning this kind of charecter of Pegasus.
That's going to be relative across devices because it's impossible to say what's right/wrong. I find a lot of Aune devices to be a bit too smooth and warm so one could just as easily say that the Aune is wrong, but the reality is that it's just different. I think you're probably experiencing the situation where you're used to the combination of your current headphones/earphones with the Aune and they perhaps don't match as well with the SG1 for your tastes.
@@PassionforSound thank you,...I am keeping the pegasus,...the initial impression is stil there, its overal sound presentation is somthing and I managed to eq down 2 - 3 khz by 1.5 db resulting in abou 2.5 in between so I feel safer now :),
I'm glad to hear that! I believe different firmware versions might change the sound a bit too so you could look around for other firmware of you're interested
Fantastic and insightful comparison! While the Qutest was not part of this comparison, do you feel it’s better, below or at the same level as the Pontus II in terms of SQ?
The Qutest displaced my Gungnir Multibit back when I got it so the fact that Yggy OG beats Pontus II and is better than Gumby would suggest that Qutest will be better than Pontus II. I'd love to see how Qutest and Yggy compare!
Just my two pence worth but i had a Qutest for 18 months, later using it with a linear power supply, but i changed it for a Denefrips Ares 2 and i definitely felt that was a better DAC than the Qutest. I then upgraded Ares to Pontus and that was another step up again. for example, i like Radiohead and some of their more experimental and very busy tracks were just a jumbled mess of sound with the Qutest. That improved significantly with the Ares, and they are now a joy to listen to with the Denefrips. i could name dozens of songs with either very congested computerized type notes/tones or songs with very deep bass that the Qutest just couldn't reproduce properly, yet the Denefrips Ares made a much better stab at it and then the Pontus was able to nail it - - Note: i use/used both Denefrips in O/S mode slow filter - Amp is an Auris HA2 SF and headphones were Focal Clear and then Meze Empyreans with Meze silver cable.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Richard
I have the Pontus II and borrowed my friends Qutest to A/B and to my ears it was hard to pick up any differences except Qutest is more mid forward and the Pontus have more airy space between the notes. In the end I couldn’t decide which one I like most so when a Hugo 2 came along on used market I had to buy it to compare it with my Pontus over a longer period. So far after a month or so I still can’t decide as Hugo 2/Qutest adds more weight to vocals while I still enjoy the holographic sound of the Pontus. The filters on the Qutest is also a great feature as it can add more bass if you want it which is a really nice pairing with my Cayin Ha-300B and Susvara :)
Both are great DACs so it's always going to be hard to choose and often will come down to the particular track as to which sounds better. Glad you got to spend time with both!
How does the Pontus II compare to something like the Holo May? Staging, dynamics, detail?
Holo May is on a different level of performance to any of these. I'd say Pontus II is headed in a similar direction in terms of sound quality and performance and I'd likely choose Pontus II over the Spring, but May is brilliant!
@@PassionforSound Thanks! I ended up going with the May. I was also considering Hugo TT2. How would you compare it to the May without the M-scaler?
I still slightly prefer the TT2 because of the inbuilt amp and preamp capabilities so the value it provides is excellent. You can also use HQ Player on both if you want to so the TT2 is my preference, but May is also outstanding and will appeal to some people more.
Does anyone know whether this dac allows the dolby encoding to survive? For example from dolby access software on my pc?
Which DAC are you referring to, Robert?
@@PassionforSound you are absolutely correct sir, I apologize. The musician Pegasus. I loved the review and the Pegasus addresses the issues that made the Ares not worthy as a mmo RPG gaming dac. I Dont necessarily need fps pinpoint accuracy in surround but dolby encoding is important for immersion in story driven rpgs and mmos.
I'm not aware of any R2R DACs that will process Dolby Surround formats, Robert. However, if the processing is done in the software and output as an augmented stereo signal (i.e. a stereo signal altered to create the surround effect) then it should be absolutely fine.
@@PassionforSound Agreed..now to decide if i should get the musician pegasus or the bifrost 2/64... love your channel.
you should be MUCH bigger!
Can't help notice your liking for a mix of delta sigma and r2r being pretty much what burr brown 179x chips are (multibit and delta sigma hybrid).
And yet, I don't love most Burr Brown devices I've tried. It's been a long time since I tried an iFi DAC so I need to revisit that if I get the chance, but there's always been something missing for me with the BB DACs
@@PassionforSound or maybe Merason Frerot? Haven't heard it but had a v good review on NRD
I'll have to look into that one - not one I've heard of before
Am I asking the wrong question? If I use the dolby access software on my pc for surround sound and put it through a Dac I'll still get surround right?
I can't answer that, Robert. I've done my best on a different comment of yours, but I've not used the software so I don't know what exactly it's outputting
@@PassionforSound Actually i think ive solved it. I was misunderstanding whats happening. the software is virtually synthesizing surround and unlike a receiver isnt putting out actual dolby signal. so i tested it on 3 dacs and i still get "surround sound" from the dolby software since its not actually dolby signal but software trickery
Perfect. That means you can safely choose whatever DAC you want! 🎉🙂
Do you have any plans to have a look at the Musician Aquarius? I've recently just got the Aquarius and the Phoenix DDC combo and I'm VERY happy. It's just the kind of 'analogue' sound I was chasing after for years! The thing that really did it I think was the DDC with the OCXO. Tight clocks do make a massive difference with R2R DACs I find.
You mentioned after care with Musician though... My Phoenix came with a wobbly transformer!! I was worried to say the least. A quick tighten of with an allen key did the trick though.
I will say as well. I do wish the Phoenix shared more of the design with the Aquarius. The text on the front of the Phoenix is two different fonts, whereas on the Aquarius the font is unified. The buttons are also different between the two. The brush of the aluminium goes a different way on the top panel between them. The faceplate is thicker on the Aquarius. The side panels don't match either. And, most egregious of all, the dimensions of the boxes don't match! Placing the Aquarius on top of the Phoenix gives me quite a sizable overhang at the back! Giving that both of these are their TOTL units I thought they should use the same design. It seems like the boxes were made in a different factory or something? I'm surprised Sandu didn't pick up on all this in his review of the duo.
But! The sound is absolutely fantastic, so it's kind of nit picking really. I chose these because I wanted a high precision, fully balanced, OCXO timed, fully discrete R2R DAC setup (digital head-fi done 'properly' imo) for a relatively affordable price. And I couldn't be more pleased with the sound. Granted, I haven't had years of gear auditioning.
Musician have actually reached out to me and explained what happened (without making excuses) so I think there'll be some more Musician products on the channel in future which is great.
Glad to hear how much you're enjoying the Phoenix and Aquarius!
@@PassionforSound I look forward to hearing your opinions on the Aquarius! I found it sounding a little bit thin on it's own, but with the Phoenix in place it sounds nicely full-bodied.
Thx Michael
My name's Lachlan, but you're welcome 🙂🙂
@@PassionforSound yea Michael lent the Denafrips you asked us to thank him 8)
Oh, LOL. I forgot - sorry!! 😳😳
Hello and thanks for this beautiful reviews and comparisons,I would like to compare Bifrost 2/64 with SMSL D400EX and Eversolo DAC-Z8, thanks
Thanks Andrea
Great review as always. What is your reference dac at the moment?
Glad you liked it! Still the TT2 for me (with M-Scaler)
The Musician Pegasus is one of my all time favorite DAC's. I think it has a more "beautiful" and "musical" sound than some dacs that cost many times more. I hope they continue to make great gear at reasonable price points.
It's a lovely sounding DAC for sure
Sounds like Bifrost 2/64 gets you the most bang for the bucks? (If that's what you're looking for)
Definitely!
You forgot to throw in Chord dacs into the mix! How does the mojo 2/qutest fare against these beasts. I remember that you rated the mojo 2 around the same as the bifrost 2 but not the 2/64.
Didn't forget. Chord DACs are Delta Sigma. The Mojo 2 and Bifrost 2/64 are on about the same level, but I don't have a Qutest here to compare - sorry.
R26! I'm with those who are counting on your opinion. With DAC change I'm waiting for so long but that huge R26 is tempting me so much...
It's such a great choice!
very interesting! what output you used for comparison? XLR or RCA? it's important for some DACs, Pegasus, for example
I'll generally always use the balanced outputs for these sorts of comparisons and will always say otherwise if I don't. In this case, it was balanced outputs from all DACs.
Thanks for doing this review. I have the Hifiman EF400 R2R/DAC and and since you also reviewed that, I wonder how you think the sound quality of tha EF400 R2R DAC stage compares to these? Thanks in advance!
The EF400 is nice, but it's a decent step behind these DACs based on my experiences (I think I compared the EF400 and Bifrost 2 in my big all-in-one shootout video)
Why no Audio gd??
Just that I can only work with what I have handy. I do want to try and get some Audio-gd products this year if I can
I found it interesting that you preferred the oversampling mode. I have the Holo May and it's almost permanently on non oversampling. On the May, the R2R is overridden when its oversampling and goes all Delta sigma. I thought it was the same with your example DACs
I don't know how it works exactly on all these models, but oversampling is used to help filter out issues caused by the digital to analog reconstruction process so it can be theoretically helpful depending on how it's done
How do you like the BiFrost 2/64 compared to the J3 with the Sparkos upgrades...or the J2???
That's a tough one. I think I covered it off in my J3 review, but the J3 with Sparkos 2590s probably has a very slight edge. Bifrost 2 is still brilliant though.
Which cable will give better audio performance with bitfrost 2/64 the toslink optical or coaxial cable ?
They're quite similar (depending on the quality of your cables), but I believe Mike Moffat (Schiit's lead digital expert) favours coaxial so I'd go with that
@PassionforSound ok I'm now using coaxial cable , for my stream and xlr from bitfrost to jotuneim 2 and oh boy the sound is so realistic , better than the way I had it at first
That's great news!
@PassionforSound oh by the way , wave you tuber advised me to try the rca connection and that should help take away some of the thin sound I was hearing via the balance xlr connection and it did .
was gonna ask if you have listened to the pontus 2 after the firmware update
No. It was on loan only
Have you tested the denafrips ares 12th edition ? How would it compare to Pegasus?
I haven't tried the 12th Edition - sorry!
I've been debating the original bifrost 2 vs the qutest for quite a while, and its left me stuck. Without the opportunity to try before I buy, I'd gotten the impression from reviews and forums that maybe the qutest was closer to what I want soundwise, but, the bifrost is balanced and quite importantly for me, has an iec power socket so that I can use power cables that dont have any proximity effect problems. But I always came back to the feeling that the qutest might win it in separation and clarity. I'd be very interested to know whether the bifrost 2/64 closes that gap somewhat, and makes it an easier choice!
Just get the Bifrost 2 and stop overthinking it.
@@SonGokuhSSJ unfortunately I'm not in the position where I can swap and change things. It will take time to save up to buy something like this, and once its done, I wont be buying another dac again. So it is important that I "overthink" and make sure that the final decision is the correct one
I have never had the chance to compare the two side-by-side, but knowing that the Qutest was better than my old Gungnir Multibit (Unison 5, Analog 1 version), I'd expect the Qutest to still edge out the Bifrost 2. However... if you don't have the two side-by-side to compare, I doubt you'll ever feel like you're missing a thing and the BF2/64 brings them even closer to the point that maybe they're at identical performance levels.
If BF2 suits your preferences in terms of being balanced and mains powered then go for it! You won't regret it I think
@@PassionforSound I dont know much about the gungnir, other than it being a higher priced model than the bifrost 2, and I'd have assumed better performing. So, do you feel that the 2/64 would outperform the gungnir as well then?
@@shreddherring Gungnir hasn't been updated in a while. The OG Bifrost 2 was already very close to the Gungnir to the point that Schiit did not update the op-amps in the Bifrost 2, presumably to hold it back a bit compared to the Gungnir.
The 2/64 upgrade takes it even closer in performance to the point where I would not really recommend a Gungnir over a Bifrost 2. EIther get the Bifrost 2/64 and save some cash or hold out for something better than both Gungnir and Bifrost 2.
My recommendation if you are in the market for an R2R DAC like the Schiit multibits is to get a Denafrips Pontus. It's more expensive than the Bifrost 2/Gungnir but less than a Qutest and sounds better than all of them. It also has all the things you are looking for.
Very nice review. Is the Geshelli Labs J2 anywhere near the same league as the new Bifrost 2?
The J2 ESS isn't, but I'm hoping to get an AKM J2 soon to check
Thx for the very informative and video. I bought a bifrost 264 and have only access to coax. Do you know of an r2r dac in the price range 2 to 3 k where the coax sound is equal as the other inputs ? 🤔
There's generally no issue using any inputs on most modern DACs. I've almost stopped testing the various inputs because the differences between them are irrelevant and are no more significant than the differences between the interconnects used.
In other words, I'd probably recommend the Pontus II or the next model up from Denafrips depending on exact pricing where you are.
@@PassionforSound Thx so much! That really helped me 👍I'm already deep into the hobby and you are the channel that confirms the most or maybe all things I experienced so far 👌
So glad I've been able to help!
@@PassionforSound one last question I would really like to to know is whether you tried (a) different power cable(s) on your dacs and which differences that made. Because if this is an upgrade I would happily do at first if there is one. If so which power cables can you refer to when using the bifrost 264 🤔
I use all Supra power cables and filtering power boards for my audio gear (I've got a full review on the channel - just search Supra LoRad Passion for Sound)
Power cables are a subtle upgrade for gear, but I do think they're a worthwhile step and the good news is that, once you own them, they work on all future gear too.
Do all inputs on Bifrost and Yggy sound same? Some say Unison usb sounds better
I don't think there's enough difference to say any input is better or worse. Given that the interconnect chosen can also influence the sound, I'd say they're as close as makes no difference
Hi Lachlan, do you perceive a quality difference in the output by RCA vs XLR? I have the Pontus but I’m not able to use the balanced-XLR outputs with my Naim Supernait 3 (only RCA and DIN inputs..)
So I’m curious if I’m missing out on some extra SQ by not using XLR out on the Pontus…
Thanks in advance
I didn't actually test this with the Pontus - sorry! I wouldn't expect much difference other than maybe a subtly different soundstage presentation, but that's just my estimation based on experiences with other devices.
Non of Schiit's DACs support DSD, which is huge downside aside any sonic advantages.
Yes, for those wanting DSD, it's an instant deal breaker
For anyone who is watching for 2ch listening.. I think you should consider Ares(or the like) r2r. I own both Ares II & Bitfrost 2/64. Hands down, Ares II is better in almost every way. I have never had headphones(I see that changing one day), but I get the sense that Schiit is built with headphone listening in mind..
I'm not sure why there would be such a difference between headphones and 2ch when comparing gear, but there really is.
Anyways.. one will never know unless you buy and try. :)
I haven't tested this for myself, but this seems to be very true with many people preferring the R2R DACs for 2-channel (speaker) listening.
Great review, thank you.
My pleasure!!
I hope you can get your hand on a geshelli labs akm chip dac
It's in their production queue and in my schedule already :)
Anyone heard the new schiit modi multibit 2?
I've got it here for review very soon, but haven't fired it up yet
Good to see you still have a massive Yggy 😅
Yep, my Yggy is huge 🤣😉
So which one is warmer?
The PONTUS ll or the Yggrassil?
I want that full body richness
I'd say the Pontus II is fuller and warmer 🙂
If you will compare yggy og with a delta sigma or a fpga. What will be on the same level of performance?
The Chord Qutest is probably the closest in terms of performance, but I've never compared them side-by-side to know which wins overall.
So chord TT2 will be more better than yggy og ?
100% - I own both and TT2 is clearly better IMO. Yggy has a punchier, fuller sound so some may like it more, but TT2 is more resolving and spacious
@@PassionforSound for part with fuller sound is burson can offer this ? As a pre I refer. I manage to purchase a farad super3 lps and farad offer custom mods for burson to work with it.
It would depend a lot on which op-amps you install in the Burson, but that's the beauty of their products - you can adjust them to your tastes. Keep in mind though that you're starting with a pure delta sigma DAC if you're going with a Burson
The Pontus II has dual power supplies - one for the digital section, and one for the analog section. Did you get a look inside the Pegasus?
On the Bifrost 2/64, I may be in the minority, but in the default OS mode, it just sounded a bit hard and grainy, and even approached harsh on some recordings. I much prefer it in NOS mode.
I liked the Ares II better than the Bifrost 2 (but I have not directly compared the Ares II with the Bifrost 2/64). I like the bass on the Bifrost 2, but I like the airiness and layering of the Ares II.
As I have mentioned before - I am using the Geshelli J2 AKM with a 50W linear power supply - and I consider it much better than either the Ares II or the Bifrost 2/64. I *was* considering the Pontus II and the Pegasus, and the Ladder Schumann - all R2R DACs. But no more - the J2 AKM is continuing to be all I need/want from a DAC. I am looking forward to your review!
I'm looking forward to the J2 AKM review too. No news on it yet, but I'm sure it'll happen once the backlogs are all clear with Geshelli.
As for the Pegasus power supply, it doesn't have dual power supplies so maybe it's an Ares II clone after all.
@@PassionforSound Right - it certainly looks like it is. It lacks the second coax input that the Ares II has, though. I use 2 coax cables - one from my Node 2i (also with an LPS upgrade) and the other from my Audiolab CDT6000 CD transport.
The J2 has two coax; though one is on the front, making it a little less convenient - the cable has to be routed kind of awkwardly.
@@NeilBlancharddo you still have the Geshelli?
What version do you use?
Thanks in advance.
@@dansisternas9158 I have upgraded to the J2S AKM 4499EX. I am using the Sparkos SS2590 dual mono unit in the RCA socket. I am using a custom LPS from Pine Tree Audio.
It is glorious!
Me, watching this nervously, hoping I made the right choice in the Bifrost-64
You sure did!
@@PassionforSound I still want to hear Ares II. Maybe one day
I gather that it is best on speakers rather than headphones. On headphones, I don't think you're missing anything special.
what is better dac to connect with mjolnir 3 and hifiman arya ?
It depends on your budget. The Schiit Bifrost is fantastic, Yggdrasil is better. You can also spend more and get better still so budget is key. What are you looking to spend?
@@PassionforSound about 2200 usd
I haven't heard it yet, but the Geshelli Labs Dayzee will likely be the perfect choice for that budget.
Is this review only with headphones?
It is, however, headphones reveal as much or more about DACs as speakers. I've tried both headphones and speakers and not once have I found something with speakers that I didn't already know from the headphones.
I'm a bit surprised you dislike the Ares II these days - but I also feel the A2 is a little bit like the SA-1, great for the time but issues have arisen. I'm considering selling on my SA-1/Ares II stack, maybe get a Gungnir (if they update it) and Mjolnir 3?
Gungnir has actually gone back in performance due to part shortage like Clock regeneration is now using lesser known part and component
@@SAURAV2k3 Gungnir should be phased out - IMO - Bifrost 2/64 is better and costs less
I think at this point, the Gungnir isn't a great choice and the BF2/64 probably makes more sense. I would definitely choose the BF2/64 over the Ares II too
@@PassionforSound I actually should have my hekv2 stealth arriving this week - I wonder about the conductor 3 gt longer term
The Conductor GT is brilliant! Hope you love the HE1kV2S 😉
What streamer are you using?
No streamer, just PC with a JCat LAN card and JCat USB card.
So the Pegasus problems are fixed?
Sort of. I had it repaired by a local technician friend, but Musician have contacted me and said they are aware of the problem and have therefore resolved it and are also addressing the customer service / communication issues. Hopefully future purchasers will have smooth sailing.
@@PassionforSound well, while it is good to hear that they are picking up their slag, I have already put my money in the R26. It is as of now, and probably for a long while to come, my favorite and “end game DAC”.
I think the R26 is a very safe bet based on all reports 🙂
@@PassionforSound I didn’t find any negative report but I wish they made better use of the screen size. It’ll be better to have the menu items on the bigger side of the screen instead of the narrow side. Old man like me have to use a magnifying glass each time I want to play around with the selections. I haven’t heard many DACs, this is the best so far and I really like the pairing with iFi Pro iCAN Signature with the options of XBass, 3D, Tube and Tube+ options. Even when I pair the R26 with the Topping A90 (D90SE has been sold), it sounds good. This DAC really made all my headphones much much better sounding to me. And, there is still more to explore with this DAC, many reported that LAN brings the DAC to another level and there’s the external clock option. I am not technical at all, just a plug and play person so lots of learning and exploring to do.
So glad you're enjoying it, Billy!