I murdered my electricity bill so that you can choose the right sub-$1k DAC. And you get to laugh at me because I failed my own DAC blind test vs. the Gustard. Here's Schiit's Bifrost 2/64 DAC -- the only DAC I know of that you can upgrade in 30 seconds with just a screwdriver. Yes, near half the video is an introduction and background to the tech, as well as the features. This is because many people find my videos who don't know anything about audio. Schiit Bifrost 2/64 versus: Schiit Bifrost 2 OG Topping D70 Pro Octo www.hear.audio/go/D70ProOcto Schiit Yggdrasil A2 (what is now the OG) Schiit Modi Multibit 2 Gustard R26 www.hear.audio/go/GustardR26 I may earn a commission from purchases made via the above links. www.schiit.com/products/bifrost
That's great for you -- makes your audio journey much cheaper. For people like me, who are very sensitive to audio (and visual) aesthetics, small imperfections are just frustrating.
I have the Bifrost 2 and the 2/64 upgrade PCB. The BF2 was my first audiophile DAC and was greatly impressed by it. I could use it for hours without any fatigue at all. The bass had a slightly exaggerated fullness to it, but found the presentation very enjoyable anyway. The soundsatge had a good sense of depth too. Being very impressed with Schitt's mult-ibit I decided to give R2R a go and got a Denefrips Pontus II. This was a significant step up on the BF2 and I felt it did pretty much everything a couple of notches better, in particular the width and depth of soundstage and more precise and textured bass. I moved the BF2 to my B system. Wanting to upgrade it to be a true balanced DAC I got the 2/64 upgrade. This gave noticeably higher detail retrieval than the OG but at the expense of sounding slightly forced and edgy for my taste so I reverted back to the OG for a while. After deciding to give the 2/64 another try but now using the NOS feature it all changed. I used external up-sampling to 24-bits 96kHz. This took the Bifrost to a new level that significantly narrows the gap with the Pontus II. The Pontus II is still ahead overall in refinement, but the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode with external upsampling is a worthy challenger. For my ears I just don't like the proprietary digital filter in the 2/64, however the 2/64 is a well worthwhile upgrade from the OG when the digital filter is bypassed by running NOS mode, and some other good up-sampling method is used.
I have an original bifrost 2 as well as the /64 module, as well as a topping d70s. Paired with my Magnepan LRS and a pair of Vidars and a Freya+, I actually prefer the original module as it strikes the right balance of clarity and warmth. The /64 module brightens the music up, and the topping even moreso (even tho the d70s is alot less analytical than the original d90), both increasingly on some tracks to the point where it may be fatiguing to some ears on long listening sessions. On my Dynaudio Audience 52's and SimAudio i-5080, which is pretty old, somewhat warm gear by comparison, the topping brings the clarity and seperation up a few notches to make it better compete with newer systems. The bifrost 2 original just smooths everything over, possibly verging on too much. I'd say the speakers in this case make much more of a difference than changing out the DAC. Swapping DACs is somewhat noticeable, but I'd say it's more of a tweak to the sound than a massive change in system characteristics.
Great breakdown, thanks for putting this together. I own 2 OG Bifrost 2s. Tried and returned the 2/64 module, too digititus for my taste--deviated from the OG's warm, smooth, and full-bodied R2R musicality. Probably bested only by the OG Yggy within Schiit's DAC lineup (though I've not heard one).
Thanks for the information and evaluations. I recommend playing around with the low-pass filtering on D/s DACs that allow you to change it. I find that using a minimum phase filter on my Fiio K9 AKM gives it a more analog feel, slightly similar to an R2R dac, in that the treble is slightly rolled off at the very top. Of course, the DAC chips inside upsample before processing and applying low-pass filtering, so that there's no possibility of audible distortion. But comparing minimum phase to linear phase low-pass filtering is quite interesting. I'd love to see you review the K9 AKM, if you ever get a chance.
Thank you for this video. It was very helpful to get this kind of insight into audio technology. It has always been a leap of faith for me to upgrade whatever one has already to the next level but this has helped greatly. I have a Modi+ into an Asgaard and then a Naim 100 on my desktop. A pair of Dynaudio Emit 10 and a pair of Audioquest headphones to finish. Sounds great but maybe I can up things with a higher spec DaC ? I am also loving the Marc Ribot album. Many thanks.
Great review. I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new dac and I’m a Schiit fan and the bifrost is on my short list with the geshelli 3…and gunger 2.
I’ve been using the chord mojo 2 as a desktop dac for a year and I don’t think I could go without chords crossfeed feature. Works so well with old recordings and some new. Be nice it more DACs would add crossfeed for headphone listening.
I upgraded to the Bifrost 2 from the DAC module in my Jot 2 and felt it was well worth it. I then upgraded to 2/64 and thought it was another step in the right direction for both headphones and speakers; especially my speaker tube amp, seems to be the right setup for me atm.
Thanks for the reviews! Must admit I was hoping to hear about Jotunheim with multibit module VS Jotunheim paired with original stand-alone Modi multibit. Also hoped to hear more about why the TI chips are no longer used on Schiit's multibit offerings that are below the Bifrost (Modi multibit, Jotunheim with multibit module). Best regards
Jason talked about the issues getting the AD chips in the Schiit Happened chapters. Basically, availability and price were a problem through COVID. I don't have the current multibit card here, but there are more practical considerations between getting the card and a standalone Mimby than there would be with any sound difference.
I have a Schiit Bifrost 2/64. I also recently purchased a Topping E30 II ($150 US), because I wanted to experiment with DSD recordings. Schiit DACs don't support DSD. Since I bought the Topping, I haven't used the Bifrost. When I was using the Bifrost, it was powered on 24/7, as is all of my audio gear. Because it was "on" all the time, I can't comment about the warm-up issue described by Currawong. My impression when I hooked up the Topping (which uses one AKM4493S delta-sigma DAC chip on each channel) was that it was a bit more forward sounding than the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. The Bifrost was a teeny bit smoother, more mellow sounding. I won't claim that I would hear the difference in a double-blind test, however. I've heard nothing objectionable about the sound of either DAC when using a coax connection from my Bryston BDP-pi streamer. I have 85,000+ files, mostly FLACs, mostly classical music, on a WD Passport hard disk drive, which is plugged into the Bryston streamer. I also occasionally stream music from Qobuz. I feed my very few DSD recordings to the Topping DAC from a laptop computer using USB. I ran into problems using the USB output from the Bryston streamer. I got occasional "glitches" that sounded a bit like a mis-tracking CD. I thought this was a defect of the Unison USB input of the Schiit DAC, but I found that it also occurs with the USB input of the Topping. So I conclude that it's the Bryston streamer that causes the problem with USB. One thing I really like about the Topping DAC is that it has a digital display of the sample rate of the input. The Bifrost only has LEDs that show that it's turned on and what input is being used. I can see the sample rate and bit-depth on my cell phone and tablet with Bryston's Android app, however. This may not be important to other audiophiles. Now, I need to address the matter of DSD. I've bought several recordings in both their DSD and PCM versions. DSD from NativeDSD, and PCM from Presto Music. I've also tried both 192/24 PCM and 44/16 PCM of the same recordings. It's hard for me to hear the difference between any of them. DSD is perhaps a very tiny bit smoother on massed violins and chorus, and there is, perhaps, a tiny bit more "air." One thing that's definitely, objectively, true about DSD is that it takes humongous amounts of disk storage space. The higher the DSD rate, the more space it uses. A 512 file is twice as big as a 256 file . A DSD512 file is 93 times bigger than a 44/16 file (CD redbook standard) of the same music. For the minuscule improvement in sound quality, I can't see myself accumulating a library of DSD downloads.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. DSD does tend to blunt transients slightly, which is why it sounds smoother. It's slightly less realistic (compared to live instruments) but it can sound nicer to listen with.
@@Currawong I know a producer of DSD recordings who says they're *much* more realistic than PCM. He records everything at DSD256. It's my understanding that it's not technically possible to record at a higher rate. They can be remastered to 512 and even higher, but they can't be recorded up there.
@curtiscroulet8715 The NativeDSD guys? The reason their direct DSD recordings sound more "real" is because every modern ADC is sigma-delta, and records in 1-bit, then decimates the output to PCM. So, bypassing the on-chip decimation is going to sound better. Then, at least, if mixing has to be done in PCM, better software can be used for that. Try some of the recordings made on the GAIN 1 system, such as Muddy Waters. There's a list of the recordings floating around on the 'net somewhere. It is (was) a multi-bit ADC, and the sound quality is really something else.
I haven't finished evaluating it yet. Also, people who are truly interested in my impressions of products that have recently arrived can always become a Supporter and get access to my early impressions.
I am very curious about how music sounds on different gear, but the bifrost 2/64 is my first foray into dacs over $100, and I haven't done a head-to-head with my cheaper gear. What I can say is that I love my current headphone setup. I just hooked it back up tonight after moving and my quick test turned into an hour long listening session. I'm going from my ipad to the bifrost 2/64 to my folkvanger in to a set of Focal Clears. I love hearing the space in the music, and I really want to try a higher end dac and a pair of ZMF headphones, but I'm not feeling any particular need to upgrade at the moment.
There's nothing significant to mention, except between the Chord DACs and everything else. If the soundstage width changes significantly, for example, then something weird is going on (eg: one DAC set-up is out-of-phase). Depth can have noticeable changes, depending on the recording. I'll have another listen on my speaker set-up for the Centaurus review.
And what is soundstage other than the the corruption of the signal by the equipment, or the equipment's inability to reproduce both channels perfectly consistently. At least I'd like my DAC to introduce zero "sound stage" into the signal chain, since all other analog equipment will.
I have a speaker set-up, and can make out the effects of different digital filters on it, but the main difference between different Schiit DACs at different grades is the amount of clarity. The soundstage width and depth are about the same.
Hell. Is that chord dac that good? I see a lot of praise for this dac. It’s on the top end of my budget but maybe worth it based on the feedback I read. Thx!
I murdered my electricity bill so that you can choose the right sub-$1k DAC. And you get to laugh at me because I failed my own DAC blind test vs. the Gustard. Here's Schiit's Bifrost 2/64 DAC -- the only DAC I know of that you can upgrade in 30 seconds with just a screwdriver.
Yes, near half the video is an introduction and background to the tech, as well as the features. This is because many people find my videos who don't know anything about audio.
Schiit Bifrost 2/64 versus:
Schiit Bifrost 2 OG
Topping D70 Pro Octo www.hear.audio/go/D70ProOcto
Schiit Yggdrasil A2 (what is now the OG)
Schiit Modi Multibit 2
Gustard R26 www.hear.audio/go/GustardR26
I may earn a commission from purchases made via the above links.
www.schiit.com/products/bifrost
Why would I laugh at you for not being able to distinguish two digital audio converters? They all sound the same to ME. :(
That's great for you -- makes your audio journey much cheaper. For people like me, who are very sensitive to audio (and visual) aesthetics, small imperfections are just frustrating.
Discrete class A output stages? 😮
I for one appreciate your honesty in this matter. TH-cam is full of audio "reviewers" that are actually salesmen.
I have the Bifrost 2 and the 2/64 upgrade PCB. The BF2 was my first audiophile DAC and was greatly impressed by it. I could use it for hours without any fatigue at all. The bass had a slightly exaggerated fullness to it, but found the presentation very enjoyable anyway. The soundsatge had a good sense of depth too.
Being very impressed with Schitt's mult-ibit I decided to give R2R a go and got a Denefrips Pontus II. This was a significant step up on the BF2 and I felt it did pretty much everything a couple of notches better, in particular the width and depth of soundstage and more precise and textured bass.
I moved the BF2 to my B system. Wanting to upgrade it to be a true balanced DAC I got the 2/64 upgrade. This gave noticeably higher detail retrieval than the OG but at the expense of sounding slightly forced and edgy for my taste so I reverted back to the OG for a while. After deciding to give the 2/64 another try but now using the NOS feature it all changed. I used external up-sampling to 24-bits 96kHz. This took the Bifrost to a new level that significantly narrows the gap with the Pontus II. The Pontus II is still ahead overall in refinement, but the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode with external upsampling is a worthy challenger.
For my ears I just don't like the proprietary digital filter in the 2/64, however the 2/64 is a well worthwhile upgrade from the OG when the digital filter is bypassed by running NOS mode, and some other good up-sampling method is used.
You should try to up sample to 176.4. It's the best sample rate for the BF 2/64 imo.
I have an original bifrost 2 as well as the /64 module, as well as a topping d70s. Paired with my Magnepan LRS and a pair of Vidars and a Freya+, I actually prefer the original module as it strikes the right balance of clarity and warmth. The /64 module brightens the music up, and the topping even moreso (even tho the d70s is alot less analytical than the original d90), both increasingly on some tracks to the point where it may be fatiguing to some ears on long listening sessions.
On my Dynaudio Audience 52's and SimAudio i-5080, which is pretty old, somewhat warm gear by comparison, the topping brings the clarity and seperation up a few notches to make it better compete with newer systems. The bifrost 2 original just smooths everything over, possibly verging on too much.
I'd say the speakers in this case make much more of a difference than changing out the DAC. Swapping DACs is somewhat noticeable, but I'd say it's more of a tweak to the sound than a massive change in system characteristics.
Great breakdown, thanks for putting this together. I own 2 OG Bifrost 2s. Tried and returned the 2/64 module, too digititus for my taste--deviated from the OG's warm, smooth, and full-bodied R2R musicality. Probably bested only by the OG Yggy within Schiit's DAC lineup (though I've not heard one).
Thanks for the information and evaluations. I recommend playing around with the low-pass filtering on D/s DACs that allow you to change it. I find that using a minimum phase filter on my Fiio K9 AKM gives it a more analog feel, slightly similar to an R2R dac, in that the treble is slightly rolled off at the very top. Of course, the DAC chips inside upsample before processing and applying low-pass filtering, so that there's no possibility of audible distortion. But comparing minimum phase to linear phase low-pass filtering is quite interesting. I'd love to see you review the K9 AKM, if you ever get a chance.
Thank you for the review! Happy New year!
Thank you for this video. It was very helpful to get this kind of insight into audio technology. It has always been a leap of faith for me to upgrade whatever one has already to the next level but this has helped greatly. I have a Modi+ into an Asgaard and then a Naim 100 on my desktop. A pair of Dynaudio Emit 10 and a pair of Audioquest headphones to finish. Sounds great but maybe I can up things with a higher spec DaC ? I am also loving the Marc Ribot album. Many thanks.
Great review. I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a new dac and I’m a Schiit fan and the bifrost is on my short list with the geshelli 3…and gunger 2.
Thanks for making a “shareable” video with history and tech explanation, plus time stamps for the people who are already familiar 👍👍
Awesome video! Much needed as I’m looking for a dac for my setup. Currently deciding between bifrost 2/64 and R26.
I’ve been using the chord mojo 2 as a desktop dac for a year and I don’t think I could go without chords crossfeed feature. Works so well with old recordings and some new. Be nice it more DACs would add crossfeed for headphone listening.
Very nice review. Thanks for the effort!!
I upgraded to the Bifrost 2 from the DAC module in my Jot 2 and felt it was well worth it. I then upgraded to 2/64 and thought it was another step in the right direction for both headphones and speakers; especially my speaker tube amp, seems to be the right setup for me atm.
Thanks for the reviews! Must admit I was hoping to hear about Jotunheim with multibit module VS Jotunheim paired with original stand-alone Modi multibit. Also hoped to hear more about why the TI chips are no longer used on Schiit's multibit offerings that are below the Bifrost (Modi multibit, Jotunheim with multibit module). Best regards
Jason talked about the issues getting the AD chips in the Schiit Happened chapters. Basically, availability and price were a problem through COVID.
I don't have the current multibit card here, but there are more practical considerations between getting the card and a standalone Mimby than there would be with any sound difference.
How about the Centaurus, which is also on your desk?
I'm in the middle of evaluating it now. It's quite interesting.
I have a Schiit Bifrost 2/64. I also recently purchased a Topping E30 II ($150 US), because I wanted to experiment with DSD recordings. Schiit DACs don't support DSD. Since I bought the Topping, I haven't used the Bifrost. When I was using the Bifrost, it was powered on 24/7, as is all of my audio gear. Because it was "on" all the time, I can't comment about the warm-up issue described by Currawong. My impression when I hooked up the Topping (which uses one AKM4493S delta-sigma DAC chip on each channel) was that it was a bit more forward sounding than the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. The Bifrost was a teeny bit smoother, more mellow sounding. I won't claim that I would hear the difference in a double-blind test, however. I've heard nothing objectionable about the sound of either DAC when using a coax connection from my Bryston BDP-pi streamer. I have 85,000+ files, mostly FLACs, mostly classical music, on a WD Passport hard disk drive, which is plugged into the Bryston streamer. I also occasionally stream music from Qobuz. I feed my very few DSD recordings to the Topping DAC from a laptop computer using USB. I ran into problems using the USB output from the Bryston streamer. I got occasional "glitches" that sounded a bit like a mis-tracking CD. I thought this was a defect of the Unison USB input of the Schiit DAC, but I found that it also occurs with the USB input of the Topping. So I conclude that it's the Bryston streamer that causes the problem with USB. One thing I really like about the Topping DAC is that it has a digital display of the sample rate of the input. The Bifrost only has LEDs that show that it's turned on and what input is being used. I can see the sample rate and bit-depth on my cell phone and tablet with Bryston's Android app, however. This may not be important to other audiophiles. Now, I need to address the matter of DSD. I've bought several recordings in both their DSD and PCM versions. DSD from NativeDSD, and PCM from Presto Music. I've also tried both 192/24 PCM and 44/16 PCM of the same recordings. It's hard for me to hear the difference between any of them. DSD is perhaps a very tiny bit smoother on massed violins and chorus, and there is, perhaps, a tiny bit more "air." One thing that's definitely, objectively, true about DSD is that it takes humongous amounts of disk storage space. The higher the DSD rate, the more space it uses. A 512 file is twice as big as a 256 file . A DSD512 file is 93 times bigger than a 44/16 file (CD redbook standard) of the same music. For the minuscule improvement in sound quality, I can't see myself accumulating a library of DSD downloads.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. DSD does tend to blunt transients slightly, which is why it sounds smoother. It's slightly less realistic (compared to live instruments) but it can sound nicer to listen with.
@@Currawong I know a producer of DSD recordings who says they're *much* more realistic than PCM. He records everything at DSD256. It's my understanding that it's not technically possible to record at a higher rate. They can be remastered to 512 and even higher, but they can't be recorded up there.
I should have specified: the DSD512 DSF is 93x bigger than a 44/16 FLAC.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As I’m learning this was very helpful. Maybe you should look into curriculum delivery. You’re good at it.
@curtiscroulet8715 The NativeDSD guys? The reason their direct DSD recordings sound more "real" is because every modern ADC is sigma-delta, and records in 1-bit, then decimates the output to PCM. So, bypassing the on-chip decimation is going to sound better. Then, at least, if mixing has to be done in PCM, better software can be used for that.
Try some of the recordings made on the GAIN 1 system, such as Muddy Waters. There's a list of the recordings floating around on the 'net somewhere. It is (was) a multi-bit ADC, and the sound quality is really something else.
Why did you show and mention the Topping Centaurus and then omit a comparison?
I haven't finished evaluating it yet. Also, people who are truly interested in my impressions of products that have recently arrived can always become a Supporter and get access to my early impressions.
I am very curious about how music sounds on different gear, but the bifrost 2/64 is my first foray into dacs over $100, and I haven't done a head-to-head with my cheaper gear. What I can say is that I love my current headphone setup. I just hooked it back up tonight after moving and my quick test turned into an hour long listening session. I'm going from my ipad to the bifrost 2/64 to my folkvanger in to a set of Focal Clears. I love hearing the space in the music, and I really want to try a higher end dac and a pair of ZMF headphones, but I'm not feeling any particular need to upgrade at the moment.
Sound stage? Very important factor, and you haven't even mentioned once...
There's nothing significant to mention, except between the Chord DACs and everything else. If the soundstage width changes significantly, for example, then something weird is going on (eg: one DAC set-up is out-of-phase). Depth can have noticeable changes, depending on the recording. I'll have another listen on my speaker set-up for the Centaurus review.
And what is soundstage other than the the corruption of the signal by the equipment, or the equipment's inability to reproduce both channels perfectly consistently. At least I'd like my DAC to introduce zero "sound stage" into the signal chain, since all other analog equipment will.
Even the best headphones stage like shit compared to decent speaker set ups, so I doubt he could make a valid comparison there.
I have a speaker set-up, and can make out the effects of different digital filters on it, but the main difference between different Schiit DACs at different grades is the amount of clarity. The soundstage width and depth are about the same.
Superb.
I think they are at least 2 R2R dac chips: hifiman's Himalaya and a Philips used also by Hifiman in their EF499
The Himalaya uses a discrete R2R ladder as far as I know. There are no audio R2R chips in production anywhere any longer.
Nice pile of schiit 🙏🙏
Prefer long narrow DAC'S
Fit better in the rack 😊
Just buy a chord dac and have done with it
Hell. Is that chord dac that good? I see a lot of praise for this dac. It’s on the top end of my budget but maybe worth it based on the feedback I read. Thx!
Not sure why TH-cam still recommends these videos to me. I've used my TA-ZH1ES/MDR-Z1R for a decade or more and it needs no improving.
That's one device I wish I could have reviewed. But indeed, if you're happy, there's no need to change anything.