Excellent review! Very subtle and nuanced but also totally clear descriptions. Really appreciated when you gave a sense of how much of a change the different versions (BF2 & BF2/64 or OS & NOS) offered. Thank you so much!
I had my BF2 for a year, got the 2/64 upgrade a month ago. With the Magnius into my Adam Audio A5X and Sub 8 it's fantastic. I do notice more micro details, and less thickness. I have no regrets.
I got the 2/64 about a year ago too. I made a huge jump and didn't test much in the way of DACs prior. I'm glad it seems like a made a good choice though. I'm very pleased with it, except I get a ringing sound on occasion. But I think that's from my source. I'm still trying to trouble shoot it.
I bought a Bifrost 2 when it first came out. I was not sure of upgrading it to 2/64, but you convinved me to give it a try. I listen only through speakers with downloaded high-res and ripped CDs as my source. I use Amarra Luxe on my iMac to send the music to my Bifrost 2/64 I did hear more detail and smoother sound. However, it was lacking in dynamic punch. I was tempted to reinstall the original analog card that I modified with KLE Innovations RCA Perfect Harmony sockets. Instead I installed a new set of Perfect Harmony's into my 2/64 analog card. Bingo! Now I had the best of both worlds. Smoothness with added detail and full dynamic slam. Thanks for the great review!
For me it felt like a unanimous upgrade compared to the Bifrost 2. Previously there were times where I felt that the BF2 was a bit too dark but after the upgrade I just feel more engaged with the music and no longer feel it to be dark at all. Definitely worth the upgrade.
Great review. Love your videos. I upgraded to the 2/64. I absolutely love the additional detail and focus. I feel the upgrade was well worth it for the additional detail. Thanks!
Perfect timing on this review. I've been going back and forth on this upgrade. I decided I would pull the trigger and then saw this review. Now I will for sure. I think my system will handle the extra detail the 2/64 will provide quite nicely....thanks.
Appreciate the descriptive words used about "layering, texture", and how it differs from the original Bifrost 2. Also, your acknowledgement of "burn-in", which I found the BF 2/64 does change and got better after Day 2-14 incrementally - even though Schiit chooses not to acknowledge burn-in on this ladder dac. Also, i found NOS mode with a good triode 6SN7 tube preamp and tube amplifiers is really nice in my system. Whereas some folks with solid state gear seem to prefer the MCB filter for whatever reason. The acknowledgement of how the 2/64 is tonally identical to Yggy is interesting. Nice review that highlights BF 2/64 for what it is and the value you get and how it "holds its own" . Sure liking my BF 2/64 when mated with my tube preamp and tube mono amps. Using really good interconnects can bring it up another level after testing mine with 4 different sets and varying designs and quality with ICs, BF 2/64 responds well! Thanks!
I personally did think the difference was very noticeable. The 2/64 is way more abrasive in the treble...but it isn't noticeable unless you listen during a longer session. I personally like the OG BF2 way more than the 2/64.
@@PassionforSound For me, it was harsh no matter the amp (tried it on my Luxman P-1u, Violectric V281, Quicksilver Headphone Amp, and my Bottlehead Crack Speedball). I also felt that the midrange was noticeably thinner on the 2/64 as well (compared to OG BF2). It excelled at some other things though and you mentioned a few of them in your review. I think you were right when you said it comes down to preferences.
Excellent review! I upgraded from the Bifrost 1 Multibit to the Bifrost 2/64. Really a significant upgrade in resolution and staging. Never heard the original Bifrost 2, however, sounds like I would prefer the 2/64 if it is closer to neutrality with a little more resolution. Neutrality a plus for me especially at the source.
I'm with you on preferring neutrality at the source. I've never tried the OG Bifrost so I can't say how the BF2 compares before the upgrade. What matters is that you're enjoying the BF264 - happy listening!
Thanks for another great review and comparison. When I switched from a Topping dac to the BF2 OG the first thing I noticed was the less defined/impactful leading edge. It did make bright headphones more listenable however. Though I am now used to that and enjoy the OG very much, the 2/64 intrigues me, lol.
The BF264 is the perfect halfway point between the OG BF2 and regular delta sigma DACs because of the combination of soundstage quality AND leading edge clarity. Hope you get the chance to try it.
Great review Lachlan! I purchased a Bifrost 2/64 soon after it’s release when I was originally going to purchase the Bifrost 2 based on your review of it (which by that point had been replaced obviously with the new version hence the 2/64 purchase) I can’t compare it to the OG unit but compared to the built in DAC of my Bluesound NODE it was a significant upgrade in every audible facet, specifically in the area you touched on which is texture. Listening to Peter Gabriel’s “Sledgehammer” the texture and detail in the bass guitar parts was immediately apparent. I won’t go on about all the other things it does well as I feel you fully covered it already in your review. Lastly, you are spot on with how it improves over time as there is a burn in effect. When I first listened to mine after a 24hr burn in was that although it sounded very good I could perceive a slight “etch” in the highs. So what I did was played music through it for 100 straight hours and came back to it. When I listened again that “etch” was completely gone and overall sound had improved. Not a dramatic change of course but it just seemed to take another tiny step towards sounding more organic. The best compliment I can give the Bifrost 2/64 is that adding it to my chain made me stop focusing on the little things I didn’t like about what I was hearing/not hearing from my setup to finding myself getting caught up in all the things it does well. Definitely one of the best audio purchases I’ve made for adding enjoyment to my music listening. In short……it’s a great sub $1K DAC that will make a lot of folks happy who aren’t fans of that Delta Sigma sound but want that warmer, wider sound with a bit more detail and texture that a lot of the R2R options seem to lack.
Great Review - it influenced me to buy a used Bifrost 2 . I have it partnered with a Cambridge Audio CXC red book CD transport Using a 4 meter tributaries V1 triple shielded 75 ohm video cable . The Bifrost 2 has far less digital glare than my previous well known delta sigma ESS based DAC and the timberal accuracy of a piano with the Bifrost 2 is very good . I suspect it would take major bucks to better the Bifrost 2 . .
I'm so glad you're happy with the Bifrost 2. I completely agree about its tonal quality and it is hard to beat with anything below a Gustard R26, I think.
Finally got the upgrade. This is what I was hoping the Bifrost would be all along, more open, more detailed. Hardware balanced. Can’t speak to those commenting on harsh treble. I use mine with a quad artera pre/power and sonus faber luminas.
So glad you're enjoying it, Jonathan. I think the treble harshness seems to occur in units where the board is swapped from the OG board to the new 2/64 board and before it has time to settle.
I just picked up a Bifrost 2 Gen 5 for a great price. I can get the upgrade and still have spent less than on the new unit. I love this thing, though I do notice it changes a bit as it came up to thermal stability. My first impression was of a very full, but not 'tubby' bass and that acoustic instruments like guitars and pianos sounded very natural. However I noticed a bit of harshness in vocals. However, after about 6 hours, this went away and it became pretty fantastic. Really impressed w/ USB. Their proprietary implementation works fantastic w/ a MacMini, which is known to be a low noise USB source. I'm sold on Schitt now. Prolly buy their little desktop amp.
So far so good with the upgrade. Easy to do upgrade. More clarity on new DAC. I've only had it for 24v hrs. so still more to learn about the 2/64. (NOS etc.)
My first DAC was a Bifrost 2, and I found it very much to my liking. I should say that I am mainly a speaker listener - and as much as I liked the Bifrost 2, when I heard the Denafrips Ares II in my system, there was no going back. The soundstage and instrument separation, and timbre, and overall clarity of the Ares II was, in my opinion, much better. However - the bass extension and control and dynamics of the Bifrost 2 is better than what the Ares II has. I have since gotten the 2/64 upgrade - and I have a Geshelli J2 AKM (actually two of these!). In my opinion, the Bifrost 2/64 is a better DAC the Bifrost 2 - but in standard OS mode, there was a glare and graininess in the lower treble, that in the end was slightly fatiguing. The rest was similar but better than the OG. I then tried the NOS mode on the 2/64 - and the treble was much better, with there still being better details and soundstage vs the OG. I know you are going to be reviewing the J2 AKM - so suffice it to say - it bests both the Bifrost 2/64 in the bass extension, control and dynamics - and the Ares II in soundstage and clarity and instrument separation, full stop. I am using a 12V 50W linear power supply with the J2 AKM - which is a major leap up in all its strengths.
CAM also said the new J2 is better than the AresII. This thing seems to be getting crazy hype. I hope more reviewers cover it to better flush out the authenticity.
@@lazzzzze1 It's my considered opinion; and not hype. For the time being - the Geshelli J2 AKM (w/ LPS) is my reference DAC. I am looking forward to PfS review.
Neil seems to agree... I've been waiting for reemergence of multibit, but it sounds like schiit will be working with DS for a while if J2 is that good and has separation better than Bitfrost and Ares II, it is game over.
Great review, current owner of the Schiit Folkvanger, Bifrost 2/64, and using the Denon AH-D9200 headphones. Having had a chance to listen to the ZMF Verite Closed and Atrium (SOCAL Can Jam) and I am inclined to go with the Atrium closed if they go into production next year (2023). Open back headphones are a no go in my house. I have been contemplating upgrading to the Yggy + OG but have concerns about Folkvanger and D9200’s not matching the upgrade of the Yggy + OG.
If you're enjoying the BF264, I don't think the Yggy OG will pose any issues because the Yggy is basically the BF264 done better (sonically I mean). Fingers crossed for an Atrium Closed! 🤞🤞
My current setup is a Modius + Asgard 3 with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pros. Absolute superb sound quality, and end game for me. I don't know how much better you can get until you get into a much higher price point.
@@PassionforSound Yep, I'm thinking that might be the upgrade path for me. Retire the Modius and go with a BF 2/64. I used a Modi Multibit for the longest time before buying the Modius. There was always something about the Modi MB though that just sounded awesome, I don't know. I love both DACs for sure. I imagine the BF2 is amazing.
Thanks for the Review. I like the way you describe the sound and details. makes sense to me. Hope you could add a section where you review how the DACs sound with a pair of speakers not just Headphones. Want to add some details for the benefit of other owners 1.The upsampled output from a decent player on the 2/64 with NOS mode enabled blew me away. 2. the built in OS mode can be hugely improved with external oversampling. 3. the coax sounds better than the famed unison USB in my case with ifi Zenstream, though I cant completely explain why.
Glad you liked the review! I'm not currently setup to include speaker impressions, but I hope to find a way (i.e. a suitable listening space) in the future. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BF264. Not sure why the Zenstream would have been specifically preferable. It could be a reflection of the USB output from your computer or perhaps the cables you're using as this can play a part
Thanks for the great review! I was waiting for this one to come out since I watched the interview with Schiit's Jason Stoddart. Mine is now on its way, about to replace my old LHLabs Geek Pulse and to accompany my also brand new Lyr+. The Lyr+ and the Bifrost will be paired with a new Beyerdynamic T1, replacing my trusty old Beyerdynamic T90. I think that setup should be good enough for the foreseeable future and it's sound qualities are probably already beyond what my oldish ears are able to discern... :)
I've got that exact setup on my desk right now and it's great! I don't have any T1s to go with it so can't comment on your exact setup, but I think you'll be very happy. Enjoy!
Excellent review, Love my Bifrost 2/64. Biggest audio splurge I’ve ever done. Your point about detail is spot on: one of the first things I immediately noticed was “room detail” I had never heard before in some of the older 60s and 79s recordings: Kenny Roger’s for example. Room Reverberations or even interactions between two singers in duets are completely audible now. Played with NOS mode a little bit and yes piano immediately suffers with it off and cymbals get crunchy. I just leave it on. One of the things I’m curious about is the topology of the DACs. There’s four right, one for each phase in a truly balanced config per Schiit. Does that mean if you are running single ended like I am only half the DAC chips are in use? If so be curious if there’s a benefit to going fully balanced in the interconnects to leverage all 4 DACs?
Glad you liked the review and that you're enjoying your BF264! With the single ended operation, my understanding is that they would be taking the regular balanced output from the DAC and just using the positive signal output and kind of discarding the negative output from the output stage. That's not probably the right technical language, but the gist is that you're not losing any DAC performance - it's only how the signal is then exiting the output stage of the BF264
I'm not sure why headphone names would be getting deleted. The YT bots get a bit aggressive sometimes for no reason it seems (it's definitely not me doing it).
@@PassionforSound that’s sketch. Like a competitor is flagging competition as spam. We’ll let’s see if I can obfuscate my response: I use Byrdnmcs dt1770pr0 Btw now running my Bifrost through a Nitsch Piety. While I haven’t used a tube amp before which is what I believe this amp is supposed to emulate, it definitely softens some of the edge off the BF2/64 with Magni Heresy and these headphones. Just a thought after 30 mins of listening so far.
I have asked the same question on your review of the original Bifrost 2 - my current Asgaard 3 has the multibit DAC card and I wonder if the upgrade to a Bifrost 2/64 will be a major or minimal upgrade to sound quality. My headphones are LCD-X 2021 edition and Sennheiser HD800S and planning to get a Feliks Audio Echo MkII in 2023 (potentially to use as pre-amp to the Asgaard 3). I am starting to appreciate how each element in the chain will contribute to the overall sound quality to give some context to my question.
I would love to see a comparison of the 2/64 to the RME. I think that would be an interesting comparison and go a long way to showing value in a DAC that is $400 less.
Having reviewed the RME and owning the BF2/64, I have a feeling the 2/64 would get the win on sound quality. Unless someone wants the headphone stage and insanely powerful customisation of the RME, the BF2/64 will be the more lifelike sounding DAC I think.
I have the non/64 + Jotunheim 2 for my Focal Clear MGs. Given that you experienced all these equipments, would you highly recommend the upgrade? 2-3% improvement for $300 sounds pretty steep to me, but I am tempted to give it a try because you mention it is most recommendable for warmer sounding headphones in the +$1k range. Also, I bought the BF2 in 2021 for $100 less than it's worth now (inflation). While I am happy with the setup, even with EQ I find that there is still more potential from the sound I am hearing. Very tempting!
Putting numbers to sound improvements is always dangerous (i.e. I shouldn't have done that 😁). In short, I definitely think the 2/64 upgrade is worthwhile unless you're in a position to spend significantly more and upgrade to a completely different DAC at a higher level, but you'd have to be going to something like a Gustard R26 before you'll be getting better sound than the 2/64.
@@PassionforSound To suggest to a significantly more expensive DAC for better sound than a component upgrade is impressive for the 2/64. Looks like I'm saving up for the upgrade. Thank you for your thoughts. Happy listening!
Hello, One reviewer and he's freind said that they heard distortion from the USB signal! And the viewer wrote that there's firmware update that addresses distortion at certain sampling rate...
If it's at a specific sampling rate, it's possible I didn't hear it if I didn't happen to play any of that sample rate during my testing, but I've had no problems with my BF264
Thanks for this review, it is perfectly timed as 2/64 stock has just arrived here in the UK. I need to decide between the 2/64 and the Denafrips Ares II for use in a single ended speaker based system. I’m currently using the internal DAC in the Bluesound node 2i which I just about prefer to my modi 3+ (which is now used in a small separate headphone rig with a Magni 3+) but it’s incredibly close. I’m looking for a more solid 3D soundstage and more “air” and I am hoping one of the 2/64 or Ares II will achieve that. I’m veering towards the Schiit because of the ease of warranty support. I think your upcoming comparison review with the Pontus might give me some insight into which way to go.
16:33 I think this bit of information is so important and rarely discussed about knowing what tier your audio gear is. Otherwise you're probably spending/wasting too much money on gear like an expensive DAC that won't give you much improvement
Fantastic vid as usual! Please please please compare the new bifrost to the Gen3 bluesound. These are two icons that exist to two different worlds. They don’t get comparison. I think you should do it.
Thank you for this review. I actually just received my bifrost 2 back from schiit from repairs and I am discovering that I do not like the pairing with my Eufonika h5 miflex tube amp and zmf auteur (original) headphones. Zmf headphones are already warm and rich and I think the bifrost 2 is overkill for the auteur plus tube amp. It sounds too warm and smooth, slow, dynamics are lacking, etc. As crazy as this sounds, I prefer the zmf and Eufonika with just my iPhone 14 as a source because it sounds clearer and more dynamic. I was wondering is there a dac under 1000 dollars that is more on the neutral side with good soundstage depth/width and either neutral/ slightly forward upper mids and great dynamics?
Chord Mojo 2 is the only one that will hit that target. Everything else is either warmer (R2R options like Denafrips Ares II - probably too expensive as well) or won't have the soundstage depth if it's one of the many Sigma Delta DACs around. If I had to choose something else, it would be the EverSolo DAC-Z8 though.
I would concur. I have a Burson Soloist 3XP being fed by a Bluesound NODE. I added the 2/64 when it first came out so I could bypass the NODE’s built in DAC. It most definitely raised the level of my headphone rig and I couldn’t be more pleased with how it sounds. The 2/64 is absolutely fantastic, especially at its price point.
We have hockey in common too! After much research I ordered the same set up as you last week. I am still waiting for them to come. My streamer has already arrived. It is the iFi Zen stream. My head phones will be the HIFI Man Arya Stealth. They arrive next week. I think I should be good to go! Keep me posted if you have any advice.
@@michaelp7185 Nice setup. You've really squeezed out some really good Bang for the Buck Gear and Headphones with your choices. The Arya Stealth are an excellent all rounder and end game HP for most
That's a tough one! On one hand, I agree with Mat's Waffles. On the other hand, the BF264 is so close in many ways to the OG BF2 that it shouldn't be enough to upset the apple cart and might just bring the perfect amount of extra seasoning as it were. I dare say you wouldn't lose much selling the BF264 upgrade board secondhand if you weren't a fan
@@PassionforSound Thanks, is it possible to revert the firmware after the board upgrade? or does the firmware does not change the sound (besides the feature addition)
The firmware doesn't need to be rolled back (and I don't know how you'd get the old FW, but maybe you could contact Schiit). The sound isn't altered at all by the firmware if the DAC board is kept the same
Hello, I wanted to ask question about the Bifrost 2/64 and possibly the Ares 12TH-1. I'm planning to use unbalanced RCA cables to hook it up to my amp. Will I get still really good sound out the DAC(s) if I only use unbalanced RCA cables? If I plan to use unbalanced RCA cables would you sway me more towards one DAC then other when it comes to just which is better when using a unbalanced connection? The reason I ask is because I thought I read somewhere that one of these DAC's doesn't do as good of a job using unbalanced connection over the balanced. Sorry if my post is confusing.
I haven't tried the Ares 12th so I can't comment on its performance, but I happily use the RCA and XLR sockets on the Bifrost 2/64. I've heard some people say that the RCAs from the Bifrost 2/64 are inferior, but I'm not sure there's any significant difference and think they may have not level matched the outputs or used an amp that doesn't perform as well with RCA input. In short, the BF264 is a very safe bet IMO.
My current setup is an Audioengine D1 + Hifiman Sundara. Influenced by your videos, my dream setup, and if I was going to do it I may save to get all 3 for a big leap, would be Asgard 3 + Bifrost 2/64 + Arya Stealth!
@@PassionforSound Yeah it is, likely will stick to it honestly as I am happy with it and the above is a lot of money compared to other things I should prioritise. Human curiosity always gets me thinking what these big $$$ products would give in improvement over the value products is the thing! Thanks :)
I’m happy, Asgard 3 with the Bifrost 2 (not the 2/64) and the Sundara. Very nice set up and slightly warmer than with Modi multibit. The Bifrost 2 can be found for reasonable prices on the used market.
Please tell me more about the Sundaras. I’ve been using ATX M50xs for a long time and really like them. I’ve been considering the Sundaras as an upgrade. Can you briefly describe their sound signature? Warm? Cool? Neutral? Any listener fatigue? Comfort? Thank you for your time.
Have you tried any of the higher end Matrix Audio DACs? I use an Element X and I get soundstage depth, especially with my LCD-5s. I’m sure it’s better on an expensive Chord Dac, but it’s not flat sounding, at least to my ears.
I've not tried any of the recent ones (used to own the original X-Sabre) so I can't compare. I find that chip-based DS DACs tend to range in depth from dead flat to an illusion of maybe 1-1.5m depth in the stage whereas the Multibit, Chord and R2R DACs will create 3-4m deep stages (or more for big orchestral recordings) depending on the recording
I’m not sure if I could give an accurate guess since I haven’t heard a chord DAC. But I have an expensive audio interface I use in the studio (UAD Apollo X8) that uses Sabre converters and I can easily hear the difference between the two sources. The interface sounds noticeably more shallow and the width is smaller as well. Someday I’ll hopefully be able to hear the Chord stuff but in the meantime i’m happy with my purchase :)
I've had the Bifrost 2/64 for a couple months now, and, while I quite like how it sounds, I'm a little confused by the OS/NOS modes. To me, OS mode sounds more like how most people describe NOS mode, and NOS mode sounds more like how most people describe OS mode. It's noticeable enough that it's got me wondering if my unit somehow has the wires crossed (figuratively) and that OS mode is active with the light pulsing. Doesn't seem possible since the filter's managed by firmware, but that's what I'm hearing.
I have both and prefer the RME. The RME is more detailed and has a very wide soundstage. However, the Bifrost 2/64 pairs really well with my Monitor Audio 50 7gs, which is a small, desktop speaker. The Bifrost imparts a mid and low mid grip they lacked with other DACs including the RME. Hope that helps.
@@jaytejera1164 I have a 2010 model Bifrost multibit. Very old Bifrost. If I was looking to upgrade from that, and you were me and had the choice between a BF2/64 or the RME, would it still be the RME? I can’t decide lol.
Just to offer a different perspective (not making Jay wrong), I'm not much a fan of the RME because I don't tend to use a lot of the features and its sound is too edgy and clinical for my tastes. The BF2/64 would be my choice because it produces such excellent soundstage depth and layering at the price. It really depends on your taste in sound and whether you want soundstage depth without any tweaking options (BF264) or if you want abundant control over the sound with a flatter soundstage that pushes all the details to the front (RME)
@@imscruffy5488 if it s a 2010 vintage, it may also be lacking the USB v5 which gets excellent reviews. Without knowing anything about the rest of your listening chain other than you been using the Bifrost for 12 years, I would probably go for the Bifrost2/64. It is a great value for the money.
I suppose most people are using a DAC with streaming or computer based systems, but I was curious if an external DAC would have any benefit for a CD player. I recently put together a system based on CD60/Model 30/KEF R3, and was fairly happy with it. Very easy to listen sound, with wide soundstage and clear warm vocals. But, I felt maybe more detail could be had, so I bought the Schiit 2/64 and started demo'ing it. Compared to the DAC in the CD60, the soundstage is narrower and deeper, but there are more details, bass, and sub bass (using KC62). I still find the CD60 DAC better on some albums, e.g. Sade, and other smooth vocal type music; but A/B'ing Police Reggatta de Blanc for example, I was mesmerized by the detail, pace, and bass of the bifrost. The Bifrost has more slam and grip, where the CD60 DAC is a bit more relaxed and spacious. I now keep the CD60 connected to the amp both directly and through the bifrost, so all I have to do is switch inputs and outputs and I can use either DAC without disconnecting cables. It took me 2 full days of listening to determine the bifrost was worth keeping, I enjoy the ability to change the presentation of a particular album or track. You also have to give your ears and the DAC some time to break in. At first I thought it was worse than the CD60 DAC because the soundstage was narrower and some of the details in the highs were a bit shouty, but after numerous hours listening my ears and the DAC settled in. Thanks to Passion for Sound for helping me decide to get this DAC.
So glad I could help and thanks for sharing your experiences using this with the CD60! Sounds like you've got the best of both worlds now with that ability to simply switch inputs when needed.
Update: I moved my system to a smaller room and continued the A/B testing of the CD60 vs Bifrost DAC, I no longer feel the Bifrost has a narrower soundstage, in fact it might be even wider now and again. I now primarily listen with the Bifrost using a Hero cable, and only switch back to the CD60 DAC when the Bifrost reveals too much in a poor recording, the CD60 DAC smooths those out a bit better. The Bifrost has more detail, and on certain tracks the bass texture is really wonderful, glad I bought it.
That's a tough one. I would personally choose the BF264 over the ADI-2, but it depends on the sound you're looking for because the BF264 will be noticeably smoother than the edgy ADI-2
I had to go full audiophile nervosa and get a little bear switch. Plugging RCAs and running back to my seat to re-listen to a passage really cast doubt on the differences I was hearing between the original BF2 and the 2/64. But having my hand on the knob and flipping back and forth in real-time was enough to convince me right away the 2/64 is a good upgrade. The cues I tend to listen for are sense of space and separation. That close your eyes and hear to the room of kind of thing. I know a lot of people are concerned about matching, but I personally think that if this box makes your chain sound thin and scratchy, well - your chain is thin and scratchy. Don't blame the source. An overly etched or hot transistor sound in the output stage of your power amp shouldn't be fixed with a dull source. That's just my two cents.
Thanks so much for sharing that! Glad you got to test that way for yourself and thank you for reinforcing what I was hearing. It's nice to get the confirmation sometimes 🙂
I'm looking to upgrade from a Modi and Magni that I use with hifiman Sundara. Is the Bifrost 2/64 , Burson Soloist 3x, and Audeze LCD-X a good combo for listening to many genres? I'm still a noob to the audiophile world, and I'm hoping I make the right decision by spending so much money on an upgrade, so your opinion would be helpful to me.
What’s your opinion on the difference between the Bifrost 2/64 and the Geshelli jsnog2 socketed with the Sparkos SS3602, I am between the two off them with there respective amps Jotunheim 2 and Archel 3 pro my only concern was the Archel being SE, I use clear MG’s and Edition XS currently balanced on a FiiO K9 Pro so want an upgrade and stuck between these two with both having to be purchased from the US and delivered to the UK so return is a pain so would love your opinion.
That's a tricky question to answer because it depends on which version J2S you buy. I've just recently released a review of the whole J2 range including a comparison between the Bifrost 2/64 and J2S with AK4499EX chip and it's a tight battle.
@@PassionforSound I just watched that one now and I think I will wait for the AK4499EX to be released and see what the lead time is like. I also saw your comment in another post that the Archel 3 pro beats the Jot2 just wish it was balanced as all my cables are XLR but just need to man up and replace the cables. Thank you
I've not compared them directly, but I expect the Bifrost 2/64 probably just edges out the Mojo 2 because the OG Bifrost 2 was about level with the Mojo 2
I'm looking at getting the Bifrost 2/64 as my endgame, financially I really don't want to go crazy, I am using the ZMF Verite Closed, I know you may not have both of them on hand but would you say there is a night and day difference between the Bifrost 2 and the Chord Qutest from an Imaging/soundstage standpoint? they are the main Dacs I'm currently eyeing up.
I think both DACs are excellent. Having owned both for a long time (but not at the same time), I expect the Qutest would provide a slightly better image focus and a slightly deeper soundstage, but the differences are small enough that both will be super enjoyable and it's only with direct comparison that you'd really notice the difference. The amp you're using may also have some say in this as some amps can't maximise the soundstage depth coming from the Qutest in the first place.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. I'm currently using the Gustard X26 Pro and want something a bit more detailed/less warm as the Verite Closed (for me at least) can get too warm sounding really fast. I'm still a bit undecided on the Amp, was considering the Burson Soloist GT or something along those lines... I can be treble sensitive at times so need to make sure I keep things just warm enough that I don't have issues. Getting a pair of Hifiman HE1000SE so gotta keep those in mind too with the stack I get. My current amps are all over the place.... Caiyin IHA 6, SPL Phonitor SE, Jotunheim 2, THX 789, Mojo 2(?) and my Fav the Shortest Way 51+, also got the Woo Audio WA6 2nd edition but I really don't like it and I'm not sure I want to invest too much in tubes which may not solve it.
The Soloist GT could be a great option because you can always roll op-amps to adjust its sound. The Voyager is even better in terms of smoothness and detail retrieval/quality at the same time. Perhaps another option to consider is the Linear Tube Audio MZ3. It's a tube amp, but not very tubey - just nicely smoothed.
Your reviews are just exemplary -- well produced, careful descriptions, salient analyses, and never seem like they're hyping a product. I just watched a video about a Puritan power conditioner and it studiously avoided all the other causes possibly responsible for audio problems. Why? Because this 'reviewer' is basically seeking to help sell power conditioners. In other words, that review only had the patina of scientific analysis but not the substance. Thank you for NOT being that guy.
@@PassionforSound Further research has indicated to me that these products are a waste of money. Via ASR: " “Perhaps the biggest issue with claims of audio improvement is that your DAC is so far removed from Ethernet that little you can do upstream can impact it. Ethernet has a clock but that is used for communication on the wire. Once a packet (chunk) of data arrives, it is put in memory in the operating system. At that point, it no longer has any timing information much less a clock. It is the responsibility of the application to associate timing with it. And such software notion either works, or doesn't. If it doesn't your music will stop or drop out. None of that timing has any relationship whatsoever with the clock that the DAC eventually uses to play data sent to it. It is the audio application together with the DAC (and or Operating System) which determine timing.” www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/
Don't put too much stock into the ASR content/community. They're very good at basing conclusions on theory that's often incomplete and not combined with actual listening experiences. I've tested high quality LAN cards from JCat and I expected to find no difference for the reasons the ASR post said, but there was a clear improvement. I expect the same will be true for the cables (probably to a lesser degree).
Is the Yggy bigger sounding because of the discreet analog output stage compared to the bifrost 2/64? Thanks so much ! I wanted you to ask the guys from Schiit what the difference is by using OP AMPS in the analog output stage vs using a discreet output stage. I would super appreciate if you asked them that question next time you interview them. Cheers!
That will definitely be a part of it. As for the explanation, I think Jason Stoddard and I discussed discrete vs integrated op-amps back in my first ever interviews with him here: th-cam.com/video/Lh4nUaMPgs0/w-d-xo.html
@@PassionforSound I watched the video and he said that some ICs are very good. And those are the ones in the Bifrost 2/64. So it looks like they are very good. Great question in that interview ! Thanks again
This whole process has been a headache. I have a modius Maximus dac. It's not as vivid as the dac in my Marantz cd-6007. That being said, I can afford the BF2/64 BUT... It's difficult to find a direct comparison between the modius maximus and the BF2/64. I am hoping that the difference is profound, not slight. I have a variety of headphones and speakers. So I do have revealing gear that will pick out differences. So... to owners of the modius maximus like me: is the BF2/64 a profoundly improved upgrade fully worth the difference in price?
I think it depends on what you're looking for, Scott. When you say the Marantz is more vivid, do you mean it has a more detail/clarity focussed sound or that its imaging is more clean and 3D (like a vivid image)? And then, which do you prefer and want more of from an upgrade?
@@PassionforSound I'm all about different sonic opinions that products provide. The Marantz is unblinking, uncolored, no question full range with outstanding dynamics. it doesn't "edit" or restrain anything. It images and focuses tightly. As a counterpart, I would like something that has detail, but delivers in an articulate, musical way. I do not subscribe to the type of "fidelity" that means "omit low bass". or "Roll off treble severely." It doesn't have to have the etched edges, but it can't be dark and mushy.
I think you'll be very safe then. The BF2/64 does neither of those things, but should bring a noticeably different character when compared to what you've described from the Marantz. Hope you love it!
I haven't directly compared them since the upgrade because, for me, the Mojo 2 really isn't a great desktop option ergonomically. Sound wise, the 264 upgrade might just edge the Bifrost ahead of the Mojo 2 as well, but I haven't checked as yet and can't promise to do so right now because I'm swamped with other gear
Absolutely. Every DAC has filters that influence the sound (you can try this for yourself on any DAC with selectable filters). They also have different output stages that might use different op-amps and/or discrete components that can all influence the final sound of the device.
You said that if you have the Ananda this is all the dac you'll ever need but what about the arya organics? Will stepping up to a schiit bifrost 2/64 be a upgrade over something like the dac portion of the ef400 for the arya organics?
Add to what I said below. This DAC is stellar using USB. Not as impressed w/ SPDIF whether optical or coax. Not saying it's bad, but doesn't wow like USB. I downloaded some a couple of hi-rez albums from HDtracks. Just spectacular, the sound I've wanted my whole life. Soon an Apple superdrive arrives, going to see if get same thing ripping CDs to the MacMini.
I agree with you , I have the bluesound node 2021 version using the usb output to the botfrost 2/64 and then connected to amp jotuneim 2 . Using USB is way better than optimal or coaxial , so happy with sound , makes my zmf verite close sound awesome.
Hi passion i need your help . I bought the bitfrost 2/64 just off your review , now i already have monolith thx 887 amp , will that be a match with the bitfrost 2 64 or the Asgard 3 a better fit ? Oh plus I have Topping L30 amp also.
The Monolith should be generally fine, but what you'll find is that the amps like L30 and Monolith will flatten the soundstage that the Bifrost can produce. The Asgard 3, Jotunheim 2 or Geshelli A3 Pro will all be better options from a soundstage point of view if that's something you value.
@PassionforSound hi thanks , I was pointed towards the jotunheim 2 so by you saying it also then that's what u will get.. so that and bitfrost 2/64 should be a great pair with my zmf verite close and hopefully my arya stealth matches wit it also.
Damn. Just now finding out about this. So many choices of how to give all my money to Schiit. I've been planning on saving up for upgrading my Jotunheim to the new version but now I'm wondering if i need to put that money toward updating my BF2 first. Anyone have recommendations?
The BF2/64 upgrade is affordable, simple and pretty effective so it's definitely worth considering, but I think a better amp might give youbl a larger immediate gain.
@@PassionforSound thank you so much. I've had the mindset that DACs make a bigger difference than amps but I get the impression from you and Currawong (my two most trusted gear advisors) that the new Jotunheim is quite a step forward. And that's clearly not the case when going from, say, the single ended Magni to the balanced Jot so it's probably flawed logic. But then, the same can be said when going from the sigma delta Modi 2 to the Bifrost 2 ... Anyway, thanks again for helping me decide. I fear the FOMO I'll feel when I get either one before getting the other. Maybe I should force myself to appreciate what I have which is pretty great and save for both for a bigger payoff (/payout). Ha. (I'm sorry about my wallet.) I am wishing on a star that they will implement a negative gain on the Jot like they have on the Magni Unity because it's just too much power to run my 177Xs with much volume control.... Anyway. Thanks again.
That's always a challenge with the more "gainy" gear. Negative gain is fairly rare because it can decrease sound quality, but let's hope you get your wish!
If you are switching it off then the power up cycle takes less than 1 minute (I haven't timed it). The idea that they need extensive warm up periods isn't accurate. They're ready to go once the power up cycle is complete and if there's any further improvements from there, it's essentially inaudible. It does seem that there could be some general burn-in time for the new DAC card, but I don't know how long. Best to just start using it and enjoy, but know that it will get better over the first few hours of use most likely
@@PassionforSound thank you for confirmation. Just curious, did you have a chance to compare Mojo 2 and Hugo 2 vs Bifrost 2/64? Also would be interesting to hear your view on Hugo 2 vs Mojo 2
I've only had a Hugo 2 for a brief loan and it was still superior to the Mojo 2. As for BF264 vs Mojo 2, they're very close, but I think the BF264 might be marginally better
Both are excellent, but I'd take the Qutest for its better staging. Resolution might be slightly better from the Qutest too, but I've not directly compared.
It's always difficult to gauge value. The nice thing for new buyers of the Bifrost 2 is that Schiit didn't raise the price for the new version so it's only us who are upgrading paying the extra and it's a lot cheaper than buying a whole new DAC 🙂
@@PassionforSound yes 12W from the official website. And I guess it could a few more watts if some more multiple decoding were played simultaneously. R2R dacs need to stay warm so it's constant. Pegasus uses 20Watts. Delta sigma use less, Operating consumption for D90 is 6watts, idles at 2 watts, much better. Amps and tube amps are worse, 30 to 200 watts power consumption. Warm sound signatures are not energy efficient at all, it's not good for desktop set ups. Sad because it's my prefered signature. It's indeed warm, especially in summer time :D Don't quote my data, it's rapidly googled, but it's the trend.
Thanks for the data! The need for warmth in Schiit's MB DACs is overstated (and has been disproved) and the warm-up cycle is pretty quick. You can always run them on a smart power board or timer if you wanted to. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Good that it's quick. Because waiting 12 hours to use the dac meant it had to be On 24/7. 12W is pretty ok. But I'm an efficiency mad man :). I'll look into smart power boards in Eu. I just bought a watt meter for 20€ and it's interesting to see the power consumption of the computer too. You could probably make a video about it in the audio world, I'm sure people would be interested. No youtubers have made any. Anyway, that is why I'm interested in using devices like mojos and especially the idsd Signature (instead of the bifrost2). The idsd has a smaller footprint too and look pretty sleek imo. Since I use iems I'm not sure I should buy devices that consume hundred or thousand times more to drive them. I need rational reasons behind decisions. iems have the best Sound quality/watthour ratio :)
I like the approach. Very planet conscious! And with IEMs, you're right, you don't need lots of spare output power so you don't need lots of standby draw.
Nice review thanks. Happy so many like the upgrade. I had a different experience. 2/64 "felt" unpleasant. Like MQA which feels like artificial sweeteners or gimmicky processing. Go figure. Qobuz & CD sources, often HDCD Grateful Dead recordings. For comparison I also have a hand me down Bel Canto DAC (first one I think) and it sounds very pretty. At any rate, I've found the Bifrost 2 has to be powered on all the time, it plainly relaxes when it's hot. Cheers everyone!
So you prefer the OG Bifrost 2? It seems you're not alone so good that people have options either to not upgrade or even to buy an OG board from someone who has upgraded.
This sounds like the perfect product for under 1k for headphones in theory. And I say in theory strongly. It has the attack of a delta sigma but has more sense of space and room sounds. This is all based on this review, not on my own thoughts since I own the Modius and not the Biifrost 2/64. I’m very skeptical that this could all be placebo or slight power differences/ volume differences between products. But then there are so many people that do think the sense of space improve and sense of real sounds improve with this kind of product. I’m completely 50/50 on this without doing the comparison myself. I might have to even if it’s going to cost me. Ha.
I wish the Yggy had the same form factor as the Bifrost 2. It's the only factor stopping me from buying it. The Bifrost 2 would fit perfectly on my desk, the Yggy is just too big..
@@PassionforSound yes of course. I’m not a newbie at this. Sorry didn’t mean that in a snarky manner. Yeah I kept it on all the time as well to take away the factor of break In as well if that exists. My previous DAC is a Marantz HD DAC1. And it’s not rolled off. At the same time I also had a mojo 2 with me and Topping D30pro. Both of those are rolled off too much for me. The 2/64 was too harsh/bright and not very cohesive . The texture was interestingly good tho.
That's interesting and I didn't take it as snarky - I'm just trying to work out why you perceived it that way. The Mojo 2 is definitely not rolled off so I think there's a characteristic of the sound that you're perceiving as extension that's actually not. I don't know the D30 or the Marantz to add further context, but I have a feeling there could be two things going on. Firstly, I think your speakers or headphones might be on the brighter/shoutier side and that's influencing the DACs you prefer (this isn't a criticism). Secondly, some DACs bring the details all forward while others (Mojo 2 as an example) layer the sounds more and can sound less energetic as a result. I think that might be contributing to your perceptions too. In the end, it's about what you enjoy so it's fine if you didn't enjoy the Bifrost 2/64. I was just surprised that you found it bright and harsh, but I think it's because of how it synergizes with your existing chain.
@@PassionforSound btw my system is quite balanced. As a musician I like it more than way. I use a benchmark AHB2 amp fed by a benchmark LA4 pre, and out to Proac DT8 speakers with an external crossover I built. I also take measurements of my room with REW and the freq response is very much close to a Harmon curve, with an RT60 decay of around 450ms and very smooth and even down to around 400hz. So I know it isn’t overly bright. I super anal about my sound. Every time I sit on the sofa and go “ something is off” , my wife goes “ uh oh, are the laser and microphone coming out now?” Lmao. I swear she has said that. So funny. She knows how crazy I am Lol. Have a good one !
According to users, sometime there's distortion through the USB signal that can only be fixed by cycling through the inputs...(The company didn't solve the problem)
I've used the Bifrost 2 and 2/64 for years now and never once had this issue so I'd suggest it's either a relatively rare fault in those specific units (I haven't had any other comments about it), or it could be an issue with noise coming from the source devices (i.e. computer) and therefore would be difficult to recreate for Schiit to problem-solve.
First let me say, I was born with a hearing issue called "cookie bite". I can hear the highs and lows but certain mid-range I can't hear. So take everything I say with a grain of salt. Own the ES9026PRO (Classic J2) and it was hooked to my Hi Fi system using speakers (Focal Choras). I just loved the sound and was going to order another for my headphone system which I was using ERISH2 [E2] to pair too but I decided to purchase the Bifrost 2/64. Using my speaker system I found the new Bifrost was bass heavy with detail up top but with vocals set back and lower then I would like. I then swapped and I placed the J2 back to the speaker system and the Bifrost 2/64 to headphone duty. Using Focal Elex headphones the Bifrost 2/64 was simply incredible with headphones but didn't sound good at all with my speaker system. The J2 just can't be beat with my speaker setup. Could just be my hearing. I'm having a friend come over and will swap them back and give it another try.
That's interesting that you heard such differences between the two DACs and that the headphone and speaker setups differed so significantly. Thanks for sharing!
@@PassionforSound I found the problem. My Bluenode's volume was not set to fixed. It was 1/4 down from max. The Bifrost sounds amazing on my stereo now.
Nice one. Sorry to be the irritating guy that talks about a different product to what the review is about. I just bought a new Gungnir from Schiit US. They had a crazy deal on B-stocks so I think they were doing a clearout. I read on their site that they don't do deals, ever. Then a few days later they have a Black Friday sale on, with a splash screen up saying hell had frozen over 🤣🤣🤣. I like those guys, they're funny. I also read on the forums and heard your interview with Jason saying that the AD chips are getting harder and harder to get. Also think I heard Jason say that the 2/64 is really close to the Gungnir. I'll bet. Maybe the tonality is a bit different with the different chips. My attempt to be well behaved and not spend on audio gear this time around, lasted about 6 months! It'll be replacing a Chord Mojo 2 so, looking forward to it. Heard your review where you said the Mojo 2 was in the same league as the Bifrost 2, so I figured I'd just try and push it up a tiny little notch for a little bit more spondoolies. Although for most I expect- the 2/64 might be the way to go as that can be upgraded for years. As Jason said- they don't know what they're going to do with the Gungnir. Schiit Black Friday sale still on at the moment btw folks.
@@PassionforSound Yeah I grabbed a multibit, unison USB. Just rewatched your interview with Jason. That'll be good for another watch at some point I'm sure, great interview. And I think this is what's great about good content like this- people can keep coming back to it, or come to it when they reach that point on their journey with their systems. Someone might find a great deal on a second hand product that's a few years old. Then they can find reviews and learn about it. It is obvious that Jason cares about his products and his customers. It's my first Schiit product, they are more rare and a bit more expensive in England, Chord DACs are relatively much cheaper and pretty common. I've never got on well with delta sigma DACs but always found the Chord DACs ok. Enjoyed the Qutest with a Feliks Elise valve amp. But just picked up a Violectric V281 now, curious about the Gungnir. I love valves, love them, but, can't really live with them. Trying to get a solid state sound that's somewhat valve like, without the hassle, power consumption, noise levels, messing about that's common with tubes. Enjoying the Violectric V281 more and more.
@ ok got it. Thanks for the reply. I’m still searching for a good dac, Gustard R26 is top of the list, but I find it’s too big for my table setup, together with my Aune S17 pro. 🤣
@ ok got it. Thanks for the reply. I’m still searching for a good dac, Gustard R26 is top of the list, but I find it’s too big for my table setup, together with my Aune S17 pro. Currently still using my DAPs as my source.
@CoffeeXmusic if you want something more compact, the Bifrost 2 and Geshelli J3 Pro are about as good as you'll get. Or the Chord Qutest if you're happy to have an exceptional RCA output instead of XLR.
@@PassionforSound Granted not very long. Left it on overnight though. Missed the thick rich density. OG Bifrost 2 was too good. Even preferable for me to my A1 Gungnir which had worse blackground compared to BF2.
If you really like the thicker sound, that would make sense. I can't remember how long the 2/64 took to settle down, but I know I didn't enjoy it much at first.
About DAC "tone"...................... I'll assume from your review that different circuit designs produce different sonic tone. Can you point out a DAC that is designed only for accurate bit conversion (assuming a published rate) without circuitry designed to alter "tone". I want to let my tube Preamp alone effecting tone.
I'd say that most DACs are intended to be transparent when it comes to tone. They'll basically all measure flat in terms of frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz. Where things get more nuanced is that every op-amp, transistor, resistor, capacitor, etc. imparts its own character (some more than others) so there's no way of knowing what's truly "correct". When it comes to choosing a neutral DAC, I think you just need to focus on the other features/characteristics that you care about. E.g. soundstage size and depth, instrument separation, detail resolution, etc. There are a few exceptions that are noticeably smoother/warmer (e.g. Denafrips Ares 2), but they're the exception
In a strange twist of fate, CEE TEE offered me a second one. Do you want to review it? I can ask him to send it to you, if you will ship it back to me when done. I am in Portland OR.
It is a conditional offer based on availability after all orders are filled, so may be of no interest to you or your listeners given it sold out. But if one is available, glad to let you have a listen.
Right now I'm using Piety as a preamp for my old NAD integrated amp to power my bookshelve speakers. So, I've been tinkering with the two volume controls and the gain switch. It seems to improve everything it touches.
The Hawk is right that the recent flurry of new models (which I agree would be too much under normal circumstances) have been out of necessity and planning for the future challenges they might face
Okay need to stop you here with your delta sigma paintbrush. Pilium makes a $40,000 delta sigma DAC with 3 transformers and 8 akm chips. It’s getting replaced by an even more powerful one that will be closer to $90,000. What gives you more of that depth and density is a more powerful discrete analog output stage. If you heard a pilium you would have no clue if it was a chip DAC at all. You can make a DAC out of everything but what is more important is the filters, analog output power and power supply robustness. The new DCS Vilvaldi Apex is sublime and a steel for 40k because before it you were spending over 100k. The Bartok is junk buy the way complete junk in comparison to their real dacs and its just a wimp in terms of power and output stage in comparison. It is their BMW 1 series or Mercedes A class. Also you have to hear the 150,000 wadex dac. I uses a highly modified Lampizator I recaped with Goldnote and Vcaps and a huge clarity cap over the power choke. I also changed the resistors to audionote and put a cover over my transformer to lower EMI. I prefer Sophia electric 274B power rectifier tubes as well for it. It was a night and day difference that had nothing to do with the digital end. I even replaced the digital power caps from the nasty brown chinese junk caps to top end Nichicon's highest grade.I also have a Jottenhein 2 with it's built in dac for work and its solid for an all on 1 box and it is a new ESS 9028 but with Shiit's filters. Since it is integrated into the amp with the short signal path and no cables reduce so many problems with "chip" dacs and their poor op amp based output stages into XLR cables that squash dynamics. Op Amps in that card work better because it has to travel an inch and a half and doesn't need a cable there to lose information.
The Mojo 2 isn't much fun to use in a desktop setup due to its ergonomics and the Bifrost 264 and Mojo 2 are on roughly the same level with each having sonic benefits where some will prefer one over the other. Bifrost 2 offers full size RCA, XLR and USB-B connections (for those who want that) and the ability to connect multiple sources and switch (Mojo 2 prioritises connected sources rather than letting you choose). Finally Golden didn't say the Mojo 2 is better - he said he preferred it. There's a significant difference. Specifically, it's based on opinion and preference which means not everyone will experience it the same way
Excellent review! Very subtle and nuanced but also totally clear descriptions. Really appreciated when you gave a sense of how much of a change the different versions (BF2 & BF2/64 or OS & NOS) offered. Thank you so much!
My pleasure! I'm so glad you found it helpful 🙂🙂
I had my BF2 for a year, got the 2/64 upgrade a month ago. With the Magnius into my Adam Audio A5X and Sub 8 it's fantastic. I do notice more micro details, and less thickness. I have no regrets.
That sums it up really well. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I got the 2/64 about a year ago too. I made a huge jump and didn't test much in the way of DACs prior. I'm glad it seems like a made a good choice though. I'm very pleased with it, except I get a ringing sound on occasion. But I think that's from my source. I'm still trying to trouble shoot it.
Glad you're enjoying your BF264! Hope you can sort out the ringing sound 🤞
I bought a Bifrost 2 when it first came out. I was not sure of upgrading it to 2/64, but you convinved me to give it a try. I listen only through speakers with downloaded high-res and ripped CDs as my source. I use Amarra Luxe on my iMac to send the music to my Bifrost 2/64 I did hear more detail and smoother sound. However, it was lacking in dynamic punch. I was tempted to reinstall the original analog card that I modified with KLE Innovations RCA Perfect Harmony sockets. Instead I installed a new set of Perfect Harmony's into my 2/64 analog card. Bingo! Now I had the best of both worlds. Smoothness with added detail and full dynamic slam. Thanks for the great review!
Very cool that you've done some mods to get your perfect sound! Thanks for sharing 🙂
For me it felt like a unanimous upgrade compared to the Bifrost 2. Previously there were times where I felt that the BF2 was a bit too dark but after the upgrade I just feel more engaged with the music and no longer feel it to be dark at all. Definitely worth the upgrade.
Glad you're enjoying it so much!
Great review. Love your videos. I upgraded to the 2/64. I absolutely love the additional detail and focus. I feel the upgrade was well worth it for the additional detail. Thanks!
Glad you liked the review and even more that you're loving the 2/64. It's an excellent upgrade IMO
Perfect timing on this review. I've been going back and forth on this upgrade. I decided I would pull the trigger and then saw this review. Now I will for sure. I think my system will handle the extra detail the 2/64 will provide quite nicely....thanks.
It's a subtle enough upgrade that it shouldn't mess up an existing system - just improve everything that's already there. I hope you love it!
Appreciate the descriptive words used about "layering, texture", and how it differs from the original Bifrost 2. Also, your acknowledgement of "burn-in", which I found the BF 2/64 does change and got better after Day 2-14 incrementally - even though Schiit chooses not to acknowledge burn-in on this ladder dac. Also, i found NOS mode with a good triode 6SN7 tube preamp and tube amplifiers is really nice in my system. Whereas some folks with solid state gear seem to prefer the MCB filter for whatever reason. The acknowledgement of how the 2/64 is tonally identical to Yggy is interesting. Nice review that highlights BF 2/64 for what it is and the value you get and how it "holds its own" . Sure liking my BF 2/64 when mated with my tube preamp and tube mono amps. Using really good interconnects can bring it up another level after testing mine with 4 different sets and varying designs and quality with ICs, BF 2/64 responds well! Thanks!
Glad you liked the video and thanks for sharing your experiences and pairings too
I personally did think the difference was very noticeable. The 2/64 is way more abrasive in the treble...but it isn't noticeable unless you listen during a longer session. I personally like the OG BF2 way more than the 2/64.
I have heard others say the same, Hazi so my guess is that it depends a lot on your setup and how it suits the OG BF2 vs BF264
@@PassionforSound For me, it was harsh no matter the amp (tried it on my Luxman P-1u, Violectric V281, Quicksilver Headphone Amp, and my Bottlehead Crack Speedball).
I also felt that the midrange was noticeably thinner on the 2/64 as well (compared to OG BF2). It excelled at some other things though and you mentioned a few of them in your review. I think you were right when you said it comes down to preferences.
@@hazi5961 Interesting. Was the 2/64 fully burned in and warmed up? I owned or own most Schiit Multibit DACs (but not the 2/64), so this is a thing.
@@econautx yes, I always leave my multibit or r2r dacs on all of the time.
Snake oil
Excellent review! I upgraded from the Bifrost 1 Multibit to the Bifrost 2/64. Really a significant upgrade in resolution and staging. Never heard the original Bifrost 2, however, sounds like I would prefer the 2/64 if it is closer to neutrality with a little more resolution. Neutrality a plus for me especially at the source.
I'm with you on preferring neutrality at the source. I've never tried the OG Bifrost so I can't say how the BF2 compares before the upgrade. What matters is that you're enjoying the BF264 - happy listening!
Thanks for another great review and comparison. When I switched from a Topping dac to the BF2 OG the first thing I noticed was the less defined/impactful leading edge. It did make bright headphones more listenable however. Though I am now used to that and enjoy the OG very much, the 2/64 intrigues me, lol.
The BF264 is the perfect halfway point between the OG BF2 and regular delta sigma DACs because of the combination of soundstage quality AND leading edge clarity. Hope you get the chance to try it.
Great review! Stepping up from this price point the mhdt orchid and gustard r26 are the next logical steps
I'm hoping to try the R26 if I can get a review unit or a loaner from somewhere. I don't know much about the Orchid yet.
Great review Lachlan!
I purchased a Bifrost 2/64 soon after it’s release when I was originally going to purchase the Bifrost 2 based on your review of it (which by that point had been replaced obviously with the new version hence the 2/64 purchase)
I can’t compare it to the OG unit but compared to the built in DAC of my Bluesound NODE it was a significant upgrade in every audible facet, specifically in the area you touched on which is texture. Listening to Peter Gabriel’s “Sledgehammer” the texture and detail in the bass guitar parts was immediately apparent. I won’t go on about all the other things it does well as I feel you fully covered it already in your review.
Lastly, you are spot on with how it improves over time as there is a burn in effect. When I first listened to mine after a 24hr burn in was that although it sounded very good I could perceive a slight “etch” in the highs. So what I did was played music through it for 100 straight hours and came back to it. When I listened again that “etch” was completely gone and overall sound had improved. Not a dramatic change of course but it just seemed to take another tiny step towards sounding more organic. The best compliment I can give the Bifrost 2/64 is that adding it to my chain made me stop focusing on the little things I didn’t like about what I was hearing/not hearing from my setup to finding myself getting caught up in all the things it does well. Definitely one of the best audio purchases I’ve made for adding enjoyment to my music listening.
In short……it’s a great sub $1K DAC that will make a lot of folks happy who aren’t fans of that Delta Sigma sound but want that warmer, wider sound with a bit more detail and texture that a lot of the R2R options seem to lack.
So glad you're enjoying your BF264. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
Great Review - it influenced me to buy a used Bifrost 2 .
I have it partnered with a Cambridge Audio CXC red book CD transport
Using a 4 meter tributaries V1 triple shielded 75 ohm video cable .
The Bifrost 2 has far less digital glare than my previous well known delta sigma ESS based DAC
and the timberal accuracy of a piano with the Bifrost 2 is very good .
I suspect it would take major bucks to better the Bifrost 2 .
.
I'm so glad you're happy with the Bifrost 2. I completely agree about its tonal quality and it is hard to beat with anything below a Gustard R26, I think.
Finally got the upgrade. This is what I was hoping the Bifrost would be all along, more open, more detailed. Hardware balanced. Can’t speak to those commenting on harsh treble. I use mine with a quad artera pre/power and sonus faber luminas.
So glad you're enjoying it, Jonathan. I think the treble harshness seems to occur in units where the board is swapped from the OG board to the new 2/64 board and before it has time to settle.
I just picked up a Bifrost 2 Gen 5 for a great price. I can get the upgrade and still have spent less than on the new unit. I love this thing, though I do notice it changes a bit as it came up to thermal stability. My first impression was of a very full, but not 'tubby' bass and that acoustic instruments like guitars and pianos sounded very natural. However I noticed a bit of harshness in vocals. However, after about 6 hours, this went away and it became pretty fantastic. Really impressed w/ USB. Their proprietary implementation works fantastic w/ a MacMini, which is known to be a low noise USB source. I'm sold on Schitt now. Prolly buy their little desktop amp.
Glad you're liking the BF2!
I'm excited to hear what your thoughts on the Gungnir 2 are compared to the Bifrost 2/64 and Yggy
Me too! It's arrived, but I haven't unboxed it yet...
So far so good with the upgrade. Easy to do upgrade. More clarity on new DAC. I've only had it for 24v hrs. so still more to learn about the 2/64. (NOS etc.)
Hope you enjoy the journey!
My first DAC was a Bifrost 2, and I found it very much to my liking. I should say that I am mainly a speaker listener - and as much as I liked the Bifrost 2, when I heard the Denafrips Ares II in my system, there was no going back. The soundstage and instrument separation, and timbre, and overall clarity of the Ares II was, in my opinion, much better. However - the bass extension and control and dynamics of the Bifrost 2 is better than what the Ares II has.
I have since gotten the 2/64 upgrade - and I have a Geshelli J2 AKM (actually two of these!). In my opinion, the Bifrost 2/64 is a better DAC the Bifrost 2 - but in standard OS mode, there was a glare and graininess in the lower treble, that in the end was slightly fatiguing. The rest was similar but better than the OG. I then tried the NOS mode on the 2/64 - and the treble was much better, with there still being better details and soundstage vs the OG.
I know you are going to be reviewing the J2 AKM - so suffice it to say - it bests both the Bifrost 2/64 in the bass extension, control and dynamics - and the Ares II in soundstage and clarity and instrument separation, full stop.
I am using a 12V 50W linear power supply with the J2 AKM - which is a major leap up in all its strengths.
CAM also said the new J2 is better than the AresII. This thing seems to be getting crazy hype. I hope more reviewers cover it to better flush out the authenticity.
@@lazzzzze1 It's my considered opinion; and not hype. For the time being - the Geshelli J2 AKM (w/ LPS) is my reference DAC.
I am looking forward to PfS review.
Was listening to CAM and wondering if he was including R2Rs in calling the AKM J2 best affordable DAC. I think he was.
@@peytonsnead3114 He was asked to compare them in one of his weekly streams, and he rated it higher than the A2.
Neil seems to agree... I've been waiting for reemergence of multibit, but it sounds like schiit will be working with DS for a while if J2 is that good and has separation better than Bitfrost and Ares II, it is game over.
Thank you Lachlan! Great clear and complete. Homerun!
Thanks Tyson!
Great review, current owner of the Schiit Folkvanger, Bifrost 2/64, and using the Denon AH-D9200 headphones. Having had a chance to listen to the ZMF Verite Closed and Atrium (SOCAL Can Jam) and I am inclined to go with the Atrium closed if they go into production next year (2023). Open back headphones are a no go in my house. I have been contemplating upgrading to the Yggy + OG but have concerns about Folkvanger and D9200’s not matching the upgrade of the Yggy + OG.
If you're enjoying the BF264, I don't think the Yggy OG will pose any issues because the Yggy is basically the BF264 done better (sonically I mean).
Fingers crossed for an Atrium Closed! 🤞🤞
My current setup is a Modius + Asgard 3 with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pros. Absolute superb sound quality, and end game for me. I don't know how much better you can get until you get into a much higher price point.
The Modius is great, but if you get a chance to try the BF264, definitely give it a go. I think you'll be impressed
@@PassionforSound Yep, I'm thinking that might be the upgrade path for me. Retire the Modius and go with a BF 2/64. I used a Modi Multibit for the longest time before buying the Modius. There was always something about the Modi MB though that just sounded awesome, I don't know. I love both DACs for sure. I imagine the BF2 is amazing.
Yeah, that will be the Multibit sound you're liking I think. Hope you get to try the BF264 and love it!
@@Ryan-ds2wx Modi Multibit -> Modius does not sound like an upgrade to me?
I don't think anyone was suggesting that Modi MB was an upgrade
You do such good reviews and descriptions of the sound. Thanks
My pleasure! Glad I can help
Thanks for the Review. I like the way you describe the sound and details. makes sense to me.
Hope you could add a section where you review how the DACs sound with a pair of speakers not just Headphones.
Want to add some details for the benefit of other owners
1.The upsampled output from a decent player on the 2/64 with NOS mode enabled blew me away.
2. the built in OS mode can be hugely improved with external oversampling.
3. the coax sounds better than the famed unison USB in my case with ifi Zenstream, though I cant completely explain why.
Glad you liked the review! I'm not currently setup to include speaker impressions, but I hope to find a way (i.e. a suitable listening space) in the future.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the BF264. Not sure why the Zenstream would have been specifically preferable. It could be a reflection of the USB output from your computer or perhaps the cables you're using as this can play a part
Thanks for the great review! I was waiting for this one to come out since I watched the interview with Schiit's Jason Stoddart. Mine is now on its way, about to replace my old LHLabs Geek Pulse and to accompany my also brand new Lyr+. The Lyr+ and the Bifrost will be paired with a new Beyerdynamic T1, replacing my trusty old Beyerdynamic T90. I think that setup should be good enough for the foreseeable future and it's sound qualities are probably already beyond what my oldish ears are able to discern... :)
I've got that exact setup on my desk right now and it's great! I don't have any T1s to go with it so can't comment on your exact setup, but I think you'll be very happy. Enjoy!
Excellent review, Love my Bifrost 2/64. Biggest audio splurge I’ve ever done.
Your point about detail is spot on: one of the first things I immediately noticed was “room detail” I had never heard before in some of the older 60s and 79s recordings: Kenny Roger’s for example. Room Reverberations or even interactions between two singers in duets are completely audible now.
Played with NOS mode a little bit and yes piano immediately suffers with it off and cymbals get crunchy. I just leave it on.
One of the things I’m curious about is the topology of the DACs. There’s four right, one for each phase in a truly balanced config per Schiit. Does that mean if you are running single ended like I am only half the DAC chips are in use? If so be curious if there’s a benefit to going fully balanced in the interconnects to leverage all 4 DACs?
Glad you liked the review and that you're enjoying your BF264!
With the single ended operation, my understanding is that they would be taking the regular balanced output from the DAC and just using the positive signal output and kind of discarding the negative output from the output stage. That's not probably the right technical language, but the gist is that you're not losing any DAC performance - it's only how the signal is then exiting the output stage of the BF264
Which headphones do you use?
@@annamark3422 hmmm i've replied twice and its been deleted twice. guess i can't tell you? @Passionforsound is that the case?
I'm not sure why headphone names would be getting deleted. The YT bots get a bit aggressive sometimes for no reason it seems (it's definitely not me doing it).
@@PassionforSound that’s sketch. Like a competitor is flagging competition as spam. We’ll let’s see if I can obfuscate my response: I use Byrdnmcs dt1770pr0
Btw now running my Bifrost through a Nitsch Piety. While I haven’t used a tube amp before which is what I believe this amp is supposed to emulate, it definitely softens some of the edge off the BF2/64 with Magni Heresy and these headphones. Just a thought after 30 mins of listening so far.
I have asked the same question on your review of the original Bifrost 2 - my current Asgaard 3 has the multibit DAC card and I wonder if the upgrade to a Bifrost 2/64 will be a major or minimal upgrade to sound quality. My headphones are LCD-X 2021 edition and Sennheiser HD800S and planning to get a Feliks Audio Echo MkII in 2023 (potentially to use as pre-amp to the Asgaard 3). I am starting to appreciate how each element in the chain will contribute to the overall sound quality to give some context to my question.
I answered in more detail over on the A3 review, but the short version is that it will be a very significant upgrade over the onboard DAC card.
@@PassionforSound Thanks much for the reply. Then the Bifrost 2/64 is next on my list!
Awesome! Hope you love it! (Pretty sure you will)
I would love to see a comparison of the 2/64 to the RME. I think that would be an interesting comparison and go a long way to showing value in a DAC that is $400 less.
Having reviewed the RME and owning the BF2/64, I have a feeling the 2/64 would get the win on sound quality. Unless someone wants the headphone stage and insanely powerful customisation of the RME, the BF2/64 will be the more lifelike sounding DAC I think.
I have the non/64 + Jotunheim 2 for my Focal Clear MGs. Given that you experienced all these equipments, would you highly recommend the upgrade? 2-3% improvement for $300 sounds pretty steep to me, but I am tempted to give it a try because you mention it is most recommendable for warmer sounding headphones in the +$1k range. Also, I bought the BF2 in 2021 for $100 less than it's worth now (inflation). While I am happy with the setup, even with EQ I find that there is still more potential from the sound I am hearing. Very tempting!
Putting numbers to sound improvements is always dangerous (i.e. I shouldn't have done that 😁). In short, I definitely think the 2/64 upgrade is worthwhile unless you're in a position to spend significantly more and upgrade to a completely different DAC at a higher level, but you'd have to be going to something like a Gustard R26 before you'll be getting better sound than the 2/64.
@@PassionforSound To suggest to a significantly more expensive DAC for better sound than a component upgrade is impressive for the 2/64. Looks like I'm saving up for the upgrade. Thank you for your thoughts. Happy listening!
Wonderful review mate. 🫡
Glad you liked it!
Hello,
One reviewer and he's freind said that they heard distortion from the USB signal! And the viewer wrote that there's firmware update that addresses distortion at certain sampling rate...
If it's at a specific sampling rate, it's possible I didn't hear it if I didn't happen to play any of that sample rate during my testing, but I've had no problems with my BF264
Thanks for this review, it is perfectly timed as 2/64 stock has just arrived here in the UK. I need to decide between the 2/64 and the Denafrips Ares II for use in a single ended speaker based system.
I’m currently using the internal DAC in the Bluesound node 2i which I just about prefer to my modi 3+ (which is now used in a small separate headphone rig with a Magni 3+) but it’s incredibly close.
I’m looking for a more solid 3D soundstage and more “air” and I am hoping one of the 2/64 or Ares II will achieve that. I’m veering towards the Schiit because of the ease of warranty support.
I think your upcoming comparison review with the Pontus might give me some insight into which way to go.
Without giving away too much, the R2R/Multibit DAC video will steer you towards the Bifrost 2/64 over the Ares for sure I think
@@PassionforSound hi, have you released this video, I can’t remember seeing it?
I haven't yet. It's still in the queue for a while
16:33
I think this bit of information is so important and rarely discussed about knowing what tier your audio gear is. Otherwise you're probably spending/wasting too much money on gear like an expensive DAC that won't give you much improvement
Glad you thought it was helpful! That's always the aim :)
Fantastic vid as usual! Please please please compare the new bifrost to the Gen3 bluesound. These are two icons that exist to two different worlds. They don’t get comparison. I think you should do it.
I really need to review a Bluesound. I'll see what I can do...
@@PassionforSound it’s a little less then the bifrost and I can tell you it’s in my second stereo and it sounds very good.
Thank you for this review. I actually just received my bifrost 2 back from schiit from repairs and I am discovering that I do not like the pairing with my Eufonika h5 miflex tube amp and zmf auteur (original) headphones. Zmf headphones are already warm and rich and I think the bifrost 2 is overkill for the auteur plus tube amp. It sounds too warm and smooth, slow, dynamics are lacking, etc. As crazy as this sounds, I prefer the zmf and Eufonika with just my iPhone 14 as a source because it sounds clearer and more dynamic. I was wondering is there a dac under 1000 dollars that is more on the neutral side with good soundstage depth/width and either neutral/ slightly forward upper mids and great dynamics?
Chord Mojo 2 is the only one that will hit that target. Everything else is either warmer (R2R options like Denafrips Ares II - probably too expensive as well) or won't have the soundstage depth if it's one of the many Sigma Delta DACs around. If I had to choose something else, it would be the EverSolo DAC-Z8 though.
Bifrost 2/64 paired with the Burson Soloist 3XP is probably an endgame setup for most not looking to spend a fortune
I would concur. I have a Burson Soloist 3XP being fed by a Bluesound NODE. I added the 2/64 when it first came out so I could bypass the NODE’s built in DAC. It most definitely raised the level of my headphone rig and I couldn’t be more pleased with how it sounds. The 2/64 is absolutely fantastic, especially at its price point.
Yep. No arguments from me on that! 🙂
We have hockey in common too! After much research I ordered the same set up as you last week. I am still waiting for them to come. My streamer has already arrived. It is the iFi Zen stream. My head phones will be the HIFI Man Arya Stealth. They arrive next week. I think I should be good to go! Keep me posted if you have any advice.
@@michaelp7185 Nice setup. You've really squeezed out some really good Bang for the Buck Gear and Headphones with your choices. The Arya Stealth are an excellent all rounder and end game HP for most
I've resisted this upgrade because I'm so happy with my OG+Bottlehead Mainline. I don't want to ruin the current magic.
Stick with it. We have a tendency to want to push just a bit more, but then we end up overseasoning.
That's a tough one! On one hand, I agree with Mat's Waffles. On the other hand, the BF264 is so close in many ways to the OG BF2 that it shouldn't be enough to upset the apple cart and might just bring the perfect amount of extra seasoning as it were.
I dare say you wouldn't lose much selling the BF264 upgrade board secondhand if you weren't a fan
@@PassionforSound Thanks, is it possible to revert the firmware after the board upgrade? or does the firmware does not change the sound (besides the feature addition)
The firmware doesn't need to be rolled back (and I don't know how you'd get the old FW, but maybe you could contact Schiit). The sound isn't altered at all by the firmware if the DAC board is kept the same
Hello, I wanted to ask question about the Bifrost 2/64 and possibly the Ares 12TH-1. I'm planning to use unbalanced RCA cables to hook it up to my amp. Will I get still really good sound out the DAC(s) if I only use unbalanced RCA cables? If I plan to use unbalanced RCA cables would you sway me more towards one DAC then other when it comes to just which is better when using a unbalanced connection? The reason I ask is because I thought I read somewhere that one of these DAC's doesn't do as good of a job using unbalanced connection over the balanced. Sorry if my post is confusing.
I haven't tried the Ares 12th so I can't comment on its performance, but I happily use the RCA and XLR sockets on the Bifrost 2/64. I've heard some people say that the RCAs from the Bifrost 2/64 are inferior, but I'm not sure there's any significant difference and think they may have not level matched the outputs or used an amp that doesn't perform as well with RCA input.
In short, the BF264 is a very safe bet IMO.
My current setup is an Audioengine D1 + Hifiman Sundara.
Influenced by your videos, my dream setup, and if I was going to do it I may save to get all 3 for a big leap, would be Asgard 3 + Bifrost 2/64 + Arya Stealth!
That would be a lovely setup! The Sundara and D1 is likely also a nice listen too though 🙂
@@PassionforSound Yeah it is, likely will stick to it honestly as I am happy with it and the above is a lot of money compared to other things I should prioritise. Human curiosity always gets me thinking what these big $$$ products would give in improvement over the value products is the thing! Thanks :)
No doubt there is always better sound for more money, but the amount of musical enjoyment can be just as much at any level I think
I’m happy, Asgard 3 with the Bifrost 2 (not the 2/64) and the Sundara. Very nice set up and slightly warmer than with Modi multibit. The Bifrost 2 can be found for reasonable prices on the used market.
Please tell me more about the Sundaras. I’ve been using ATX M50xs for a long time and really like them. I’ve been considering the Sundaras as an upgrade. Can you briefly describe their sound signature? Warm? Cool? Neutral? Any listener fatigue? Comfort? Thank you for your time.
Have you tried any of the higher end Matrix Audio DACs? I use an Element X and I get soundstage depth, especially with my LCD-5s. I’m sure it’s better on an expensive Chord Dac, but it’s not flat sounding, at least to my ears.
I've not tried any of the recent ones (used to own the original X-Sabre) so I can't compare. I find that chip-based DS DACs tend to range in depth from dead flat to an illusion of maybe 1-1.5m depth in the stage whereas the Multibit, Chord and R2R DACs will create 3-4m deep stages (or more for big orchestral recordings) depending on the recording
I’m not sure if I could give an accurate guess since I haven’t heard a chord DAC. But I have an expensive audio interface I use in the studio (UAD Apollo X8) that uses Sabre converters and I can easily hear the difference between the two sources. The interface sounds noticeably more shallow and the width is smaller as well. Someday I’ll hopefully be able to hear the Chord stuff but in the meantime i’m happy with my purchase :)
Also, you might enjoy this youtube video about creating depth during mixing.
m.th-cam.com/video/0YinuE0KDm4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the link!
I've had the Bifrost 2/64 for a couple months now, and, while I quite like how it sounds, I'm a little confused by the OS/NOS modes. To me, OS mode sounds more like how most people describe NOS mode, and NOS mode sounds more like how most people describe OS mode. It's noticeable enough that it's got me wondering if my unit somehow has the wires crossed (figuratively) and that OS mode is active with the light pulsing. Doesn't seem possible since the filter's managed by firmware, but that's what I'm hearing.
That's definitely curious! Without hearing it, it's hard to say...
I listened extensively to the Bifrost 2/64 at the event in Austin. Very nice.
Glad you got a chance to try it!
How's it compared to the popular RME ADI-2 DAC?
I have both and prefer the RME. The RME is more detailed and has a very wide soundstage. However, the Bifrost 2/64 pairs really well with my Monitor Audio 50 7gs, which is a small, desktop speaker. The Bifrost imparts a mid and low mid grip they lacked with other DACs including the RME. Hope that helps.
@@jaytejera1164 I have a 2010 model Bifrost multibit. Very old Bifrost. If I was looking to upgrade from that, and you were me and had the choice between a BF2/64 or the RME, would it still be the RME? I can’t decide lol.
@@jaytejera1164 thanks. I think RME offer a better value for including headphone out, super low noise IEM out, preamp out and a bunch of DSP features.
Just to offer a different perspective (not making Jay wrong), I'm not much a fan of the RME because I don't tend to use a lot of the features and its sound is too edgy and clinical for my tastes. The BF2/64 would be my choice because it produces such excellent soundstage depth and layering at the price. It really depends on your taste in sound and whether you want soundstage depth without any tweaking options (BF264) or if you want abundant control over the sound with a flatter soundstage that pushes all the details to the front (RME)
@@imscruffy5488 if it s a 2010 vintage, it may also be lacking the USB v5 which gets excellent reviews. Without knowing anything about the rest of your listening chain other than you been using the Bifrost for 12 years, I would probably go for the Bifrost2/64. It is a great value for the money.
I suppose most people are using a DAC with streaming or computer based systems, but I was curious if an external DAC would have any benefit for a CD player. I recently put together a system based on CD60/Model 30/KEF R3, and was fairly happy with it. Very easy to listen sound, with wide soundstage and clear warm vocals. But, I felt maybe more detail could be had, so I bought the Schiit 2/64 and started demo'ing it. Compared to the DAC in the CD60, the soundstage is narrower and deeper, but there are more details, bass, and sub bass (using KC62). I still find the CD60 DAC better on some albums, e.g. Sade, and other smooth vocal type music; but A/B'ing Police Reggatta de Blanc for example, I was mesmerized by the detail, pace, and bass of the bifrost. The Bifrost has more slam and grip, where the CD60 DAC is a bit more relaxed and spacious.
I now keep the CD60 connected to the amp both directly and through the bifrost, so all I have to do is switch inputs and outputs and I can use either DAC without disconnecting cables. It took me 2 full days of listening to determine the bifrost was worth keeping, I enjoy the ability to change the presentation of a particular album or track. You also have to give your ears and the DAC some time to break in. At first I thought it was worse than the CD60 DAC because the soundstage was narrower and some of the details in the highs were a bit shouty, but after numerous hours listening my ears and the DAC settled in. Thanks to Passion for Sound for helping me decide to get this DAC.
So glad I could help and thanks for sharing your experiences using this with the CD60! Sounds like you've got the best of both worlds now with that ability to simply switch inputs when needed.
Update: I moved my system to a smaller room and continued the A/B testing of the CD60 vs Bifrost DAC, I no longer feel the Bifrost has a narrower soundstage, in fact it might be even wider now and again. I now primarily listen with the Bifrost using a Hero cable, and only switch back to the CD60 DAC when the Bifrost reveals too much in a poor recording, the CD60 DAC smooths those out a bit better. The Bifrost has more detail, and on certain tracks the bass texture is really wonderful, glad I bought it.
Great news! Glad you're enjoying it 🙂
I'm currently running a RME ADI-2 DAC FS as DAC and a FELIKS Audio Elise MK II as amp. Do you think the Bifrost II 64 would be an upgrade DAC-wise?
That's a tough one. I would personally choose the BF264 over the ADI-2, but it depends on the sound you're looking for because the BF264 will be noticeably smoother than the edgy ADI-2
I had to go full audiophile nervosa and get a little bear switch. Plugging RCAs and running back to my seat to re-listen to a passage really cast doubt on the differences I was hearing between the original BF2 and the 2/64. But having my hand on the knob and flipping back and forth in real-time was enough to convince me right away the 2/64 is a good upgrade. The cues I tend to listen for are sense of space and separation. That close your eyes and hear to the room of kind of thing.
I know a lot of people are concerned about matching, but I personally think that if this box makes your chain sound thin and scratchy, well - your chain is thin and scratchy. Don't blame the source. An overly etched or hot transistor sound in the output stage of your power amp shouldn't be fixed with a dull source. That's just my two cents.
Thanks so much for sharing that! Glad you got to test that way for yourself and thank you for reinforcing what I was hearing. It's nice to get the confirmation sometimes 🙂
Do you have any impressions of the gustard r26???
Not as yet, but I'm hoping to arrange something.
@@PassionforSound cool try to get one of those and then do an epic dac shoot out
I'm looking to upgrade from a Modi and Magni that I use with hifiman Sundara. Is the Bifrost 2/64 , Burson Soloist 3x, and Audeze LCD-X a good combo for listening to many genres? I'm still a noob to the audiophile world, and I'm hoping I make the right decision by spending so much money on an upgrade, so your opinion would be helpful to me.
I don't know the LCD-X, but based on what I e read and heard, it will go great with that DAC and amp combo and should make for an outstanding setup!
Seems its not available in Australia at ATA??
Perhaps not. Ordering direct is generally cheaper anyway I find.
What’s your opinion on the difference between the Bifrost 2/64 and the Geshelli jsnog2 socketed with the Sparkos SS3602, I am between the two off them with there respective amps Jotunheim 2 and Archel 3 pro my only concern was the Archel being SE, I use clear MG’s and Edition XS currently balanced on a FiiO K9 Pro so want an upgrade and stuck between these two with both having to be purchased from the US and delivered to the UK so return is a pain so would love your opinion.
That's a tricky question to answer because it depends on which version J2S you buy. I've just recently released a review of the whole J2 range including a comparison between the Bifrost 2/64 and J2S with AK4499EX chip and it's a tight battle.
@@PassionforSound I just watched that one now and I think I will wait for the AK4499EX to be released and see what the lead time is like. I also saw your comment in another post that the Archel 3 pro beats the Jot2 just wish it was balanced as all my cables are XLR but just need to man up and replace the cables. Thank you
You can always buy a quality 6.3mm to XLR adapter for your headphones. A3 Pro still accepts XLR input on the back 🙂
Have you compared to the Geshelli
I haven't as yet. I've reviewed the original J2, but it seems the AKM version is getting some hype so maybe I need to revisit...
Hi passion , so is this bitfrost 2-64 much better than chord mojo 2 ? Whats your take and choice ?
I've not compared them directly, but I expect the Bifrost 2/64 probably just edges out the Mojo 2 because the OG Bifrost 2 was about level with the Mojo 2
@PassionforSound thank you that helps .
I'm looking at getting the Bifrost 2/64 as my endgame, financially I really don't want to go crazy, I am using the ZMF Verite Closed, I know you may not have both of them on hand but would you say there is a night and day difference between the Bifrost 2 and the Chord Qutest from an Imaging/soundstage standpoint? they are the main Dacs I'm currently eyeing up.
I think both DACs are excellent. Having owned both for a long time (but not at the same time), I expect the Qutest would provide a slightly better image focus and a slightly deeper soundstage, but the differences are small enough that both will be super enjoyable and it's only with direct comparison that you'd really notice the difference. The amp you're using may also have some say in this as some amps can't maximise the soundstage depth coming from the Qutest in the first place.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. I'm currently using the Gustard X26 Pro and want something a bit more detailed/less warm as the Verite Closed (for me at least) can get too warm sounding really fast.
I'm still a bit undecided on the Amp, was considering the Burson Soloist GT or something along those lines... I can be treble sensitive at times so need to make sure I keep things just warm enough that I don't have issues. Getting a pair of Hifiman HE1000SE so gotta keep those in mind too with the stack I get.
My current amps are all over the place.... Caiyin IHA 6, SPL Phonitor SE, Jotunheim 2, THX 789, Mojo 2(?) and my Fav the Shortest Way 51+, also got the Woo Audio WA6 2nd edition but I really don't like it and I'm not sure I want to invest too much in tubes which may not solve it.
The Soloist GT could be a great option because you can always roll op-amps to adjust its sound. The Voyager is even better in terms of smoothness and detail retrieval/quality at the same time.
Perhaps another option to consider is the Linear Tube Audio MZ3. It's a tube amp, but not very tubey - just nicely smoothed.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for that info, I just watched your review on the MZ3 and it seems like it might be right up my alley.
Your reviews are just exemplary -- well produced, careful descriptions, salient analyses, and never seem like they're hyping a product. I just watched a video about a Puritan power conditioner and it studiously avoided all the other causes possibly responsible for audio problems. Why? Because this 'reviewer' is basically seeking to help sell power conditioners. In other words, that review only had the patina of scientific analysis but not the substance. Thank you for NOT being that guy.
Glad you're enjoying my approach and thanks for letting me know - helps me to stay focussed on what people are liking
@@PassionforSound I'd be curious for you to do reviews or even just do a single episode commentary on ethernet switches and/or cables.
I'll see what opportunities arise in the future
@@PassionforSound Further research has indicated to me that these products are a waste of money. Via ASR: " “Perhaps the biggest issue with claims of audio improvement is that your DAC is so far removed from Ethernet that little you can do upstream can impact it. Ethernet has a clock but that is used for communication on the wire. Once a packet (chunk) of data arrives, it is put in memory in the operating system. At that point, it no longer has any timing information much less a clock. It is the responsibility of the application to associate timing with it. And such software notion either works, or doesn't. If it doesn't your music will stop or drop out. None of that timing has any relationship whatsoever with the clock that the DAC eventually uses to play data sent to it. It is the audio application together with the DAC (and or Operating System) which determine timing.”
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/
Don't put too much stock into the ASR content/community. They're very good at basing conclusions on theory that's often incomplete and not combined with actual listening experiences.
I've tested high quality LAN cards from JCat and I expected to find no difference for the reasons the ASR post said, but there was a clear improvement. I expect the same will be true for the cables (probably to a lesser degree).
Is the Yggy bigger sounding because of the discreet analog output stage compared to the bifrost 2/64?
Thanks so much !
I wanted you to ask the guys from Schiit what the difference is by using OP AMPS in the analog output stage vs using a discreet output stage.
I would super appreciate if you asked them that question next time you interview them.
Cheers!
That will definitely be a part of it. As for the explanation, I think Jason Stoddard and I discussed discrete vs integrated op-amps back in my first ever interviews with him here: th-cam.com/video/Lh4nUaMPgs0/w-d-xo.html
@@PassionforSound awesome. Thanks so much for the link man
@@PassionforSound I watched the video and he said that some ICs are very good. And those are the ones in the Bifrost 2/64. So it looks like they are very good.
Great question in that interview !
Thanks again
Great review - thank you
My pleasure
This whole process has been a headache. I have a modius Maximus dac. It's not as vivid as the dac in my Marantz cd-6007. That being said, I can afford the BF2/64 BUT...
It's difficult to find a direct comparison between the modius maximus and the BF2/64. I am hoping that the difference is profound, not slight. I have a variety of headphones and speakers. So I do have revealing gear that will pick out differences.
So... to owners of the modius maximus like me: is the BF2/64 a profoundly improved upgrade fully worth the difference in price?
I think it depends on what you're looking for, Scott. When you say the Marantz is more vivid, do you mean it has a more detail/clarity focussed sound or that its imaging is more clean and 3D (like a vivid image)? And then, which do you prefer and want more of from an upgrade?
@@PassionforSound I'm all about different sonic opinions that products provide. The Marantz is unblinking, uncolored, no question full range with outstanding dynamics. it doesn't "edit" or restrain anything. It images and focuses tightly.
As a counterpart, I would like something that has detail, but delivers in an articulate, musical way. I do not subscribe to the type of "fidelity" that means "omit low bass". or "Roll off treble severely." It doesn't have to have the etched edges, but it can't be dark and mushy.
I think you'll be very safe then. The BF2/64 does neither of those things, but should bring a noticeably different character when compared to what you've described from the Marantz. Hope you love it!
@@PassionforSound Delivery is 10-12 weeks...so now....we wait...
Bummer. I think it will be worth it though
Does the BF 2/64 change your opinion of how it stacks up against the Mojo2 in any way? If so, could you offer some thoughts? Thanks!
I haven't directly compared them since the upgrade because, for me, the Mojo 2 really isn't a great desktop option ergonomically. Sound wise, the 264 upgrade might just edge the Bifrost ahead of the Mojo 2 as well, but I haven't checked as yet and can't promise to do so right now because I'm swamped with other gear
Are we saying dacs have a sound signature? If so? How is that so?
Absolutely. Every DAC has filters that influence the sound (you can try this for yourself on any DAC with selectable filters). They also have different output stages that might use different op-amps and/or discrete components that can all influence the final sound of the device.
Can't find the upgrade card? Did you check inside your old Bifrost?
Haha. Did I say upgrade card? I meant the old card 🙂
@@PassionforSound 😎
long waited review .. thanx
My pleasure. Sorry it took a while!
You said that if you have the Ananda this is all the dac you'll ever need but what about the arya organics? Will stepping up to a schiit bifrost 2/64 be a upgrade over something like the dac portion of the ef400 for the arya organics?
Yes. It'll be a great DAC for those too. The Aryas will reward you for an even better DAC, but the BF2 is wonderful for the price.
@@PassionforSound is it a step up from the dac portion of the ef400 all in one?
I think so. I'm pretty sure I compared them in one of my videos
I found a used 2/64 for a fair price, Do you think this would be a worthy upgrade in my chain? Modius, Asgard 3, DT 1990 Pros.
Definitely! The Modius is nice, but the BF264 is clearly better IMO 🙂
Add to what I said below. This DAC is stellar using USB. Not as impressed w/ SPDIF whether optical or coax. Not saying it's bad, but doesn't wow like USB. I downloaded some a couple of hi-rez albums from HDtracks. Just spectacular, the sound I've wanted my whole life. Soon an Apple superdrive arrives, going to see if get same thing ripping CDs to the MacMini.
So glad you're enjoying it so much. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I agree with you , I have the bluesound node 2021 version using the usb output to the botfrost 2/64 and then connected to amp jotuneim 2 . Using USB is way better than optimal or coaxial , so happy with sound , makes my zmf verite close sound awesome.
Thanks Much!
Hi passion i need your help . I bought the bitfrost 2/64 just off your review , now i already have monolith thx 887 amp , will that be a match with the bitfrost 2 64 or the Asgard 3 a better fit ? Oh plus I have Topping L30 amp also.
The Monolith should be generally fine, but what you'll find is that the amps like L30 and Monolith will flatten the soundstage that the Bifrost can produce. The Asgard 3, Jotunheim 2 or Geshelli A3 Pro will all be better options from a soundstage point of view if that's something you value.
@PassionforSound hi thanks , I was pointed towards the jotunheim 2 so by you saying it also then that's what u will get.. so that and bitfrost 2/64 should be a great pair with my zmf verite close and hopefully my arya stealth matches wit it also.
Damn. Just now finding out about this. So many choices of how to give all my money to Schiit. I've been planning on saving up for upgrading my Jotunheim to the new version but now I'm wondering if i need to put that money toward updating my BF2 first. Anyone have recommendations?
The BF2/64 upgrade is affordable, simple and pretty effective so it's definitely worth considering, but I think a better amp might give youbl a larger immediate gain.
@@PassionforSound thank you so much. I've had the mindset that DACs make a bigger difference than amps but I get the impression from you and Currawong (my two most trusted gear advisors) that the new Jotunheim is quite a step forward. And that's clearly not the case when going from, say, the single ended Magni to the balanced Jot so it's probably flawed logic. But then, the same can be said when going from the sigma delta Modi 2 to the Bifrost 2 ... Anyway, thanks again for helping me decide. I fear the FOMO I'll feel when I get either one before getting the other. Maybe I should force myself to appreciate what I have which is pretty great and save for both for a bigger payoff (/payout). Ha. (I'm sorry about my wallet.) I am wishing on a star that they will implement a negative gain on the Jot like they have on the Magni Unity because it's just too much power to run my 177Xs with much volume control.... Anyway. Thanks again.
That's always a challenge with the more "gainy" gear. Negative gain is fairly rare because it can decrease sound quality, but let's hope you get your wish!
Any idea of how this compare to Gumby. Thanks
Sadly, no. It's got to be approaching the Gumby in some ways, but I think Gumby might still have the better output stage (I'm not sure)
@@PassionforSound Thank you for the objective review, really enjoy the comparison between 2 and 2/64.
My pleasure
Where do i get I GOT YOUR BACK T-SHIRT?
That was from Threadheads I think.
@@PassionforSound Thanks
Sticking with my original Bifrost 2
Enjoy!
I never heard Trampled Rose. I would like to hear a playlist from you.
I might be able to assist with something next year. Also, my patrons get access to curated playlists of test tracks if that's of interest 🙂
How long does the warmup time last?
No need to warm it up as there’s no need to turn it off.
If you are switching it off then the power up cycle takes less than 1 minute (I haven't timed it). The idea that they need extensive warm up periods isn't accurate. They're ready to go once the power up cycle is complete and if there's any further improvements from there, it's essentially inaudible.
It does seem that there could be some general burn-in time for the new DAC card, but I don't know how long. Best to just start using it and enjoy, but know that it will get better over the first few hours of use most likely
Got mine the other day and the left channel is noticeably louder than the right channel. Wondering if anyone else has the same issue.
That's not something I've heard of before so it would be worth touching base with Schiit on that one.
I emailed them first thing this morning. Still waiting for them to reply.
Give them time - they're generally very good with customer service based on what I hear and my own experiences
1:48 your labels of 2 boards are swapped (OG board marked as 2/64), are you sure you conclusion was not also swapped?))
Yes. An error in editing doesn't equate to an error in listening and note taking
@@PassionforSound thank you for confirmation. Just curious, did you have a chance to compare Mojo 2 and Hugo 2 vs Bifrost 2/64? Also would be interesting to hear your view on Hugo 2 vs Mojo 2
I've only had a Hugo 2 for a brief loan and it was still superior to the Mojo 2. As for BF264 vs Mojo 2, they're very close, but I think the BF264 might be marginally better
Hello!! Between Bifrost 2/64 and Chord qutest, which one do you enjoy more? Without considering their prices.
Both are excellent, but I'd take the Qutest for its better staging. Resolution might be slightly better from the Qutest too, but I've not directly compared.
@PassionforSound Wow thanks so much!!
It occurs to me - after having just installed my 2/64 - that you have the cards in the intro montage labeled in reverse.
Oh, really!? I thought I double-checked that when putting the video together...
while i did find the /64 card an improvement on the bf2, i dont know if its 300$ better.
It's always difficult to gauge value. The nice thing for new buyers of the Bifrost 2 is that Schiit didn't raise the price for the new version so it's only us who are upgrading paying the extra and it's a lot cheaper than buying a whole new DAC 🙂
Doesn't letting a 12w device always on bother some people ? It's add up to the overall package
That's a fair point. Does it draw 12W constantly? I've never checked...
@@PassionforSound yes 12W from the official website. And I guess it could a few more watts if some more multiple decoding were played simultaneously. R2R dacs need to stay warm so it's constant. Pegasus uses 20Watts. Delta sigma use less, Operating consumption for D90 is 6watts, idles at 2 watts, much better.
Amps and tube amps are worse, 30 to 200 watts power consumption.
Warm sound signatures are not energy efficient at all, it's not good for desktop set ups. Sad because it's my prefered signature. It's indeed warm, especially in summer time :D
Don't quote my data, it's rapidly googled, but it's the trend.
Thanks for the data!
The need for warmth in Schiit's MB DACs is overstated (and has been disproved) and the warm-up cycle is pretty quick. You can always run them on a smart power board or timer if you wanted to. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Good that it's quick. Because waiting 12 hours to use the dac meant it had to be On 24/7. 12W is pretty ok. But I'm an efficiency mad man :). I'll look into smart power boards in Eu. I just bought a watt meter for 20€ and it's interesting to see the power consumption of the computer too. You could probably make a video about it in the audio world, I'm sure people would be interested. No youtubers have made any.
Anyway, that is why I'm interested in using devices like mojos and especially the idsd Signature (instead of the bifrost2). The idsd has a smaller footprint too and look pretty sleek imo.
Since I use iems I'm not sure I should buy devices that consume hundred or thousand times more to drive them. I need rational reasons behind decisions.
iems have the best Sound quality/watthour ratio :)
I like the approach. Very planet conscious! And with IEMs, you're right, you don't need lots of spare output power so you don't need lots of standby draw.
Nice review thanks. Happy so many like the upgrade. I had a different experience. 2/64 "felt" unpleasant. Like MQA which feels like artificial sweeteners or gimmicky processing. Go figure. Qobuz & CD sources, often HDCD Grateful Dead recordings. For comparison I also have a hand me down Bel Canto DAC (first one I think) and it sounds very pretty. At any rate, I've found the Bifrost 2 has to be powered on all the time, it plainly relaxes when it's hot. Cheers everyone!
So you prefer the OG Bifrost 2? It seems you're not alone so good that people have options either to not upgrade or even to buy an OG board from someone who has upgraded.
Ok, now I'm saving up for an Yggy, lol
Yggy is brilliant
What about the Gungnir?
I owned one years ago, but don't have one here anymore to test.
This sounds like the perfect product for under 1k for headphones in theory. And I say in theory strongly. It has the attack of a delta sigma but has more sense of space and room sounds. This is all based on this review, not on my own thoughts since I own the Modius and not the Biifrost 2/64. I’m very skeptical that this could all be placebo or slight power differences/ volume differences between products. But then there are so many people that do think the sense of space improve and sense of real sounds improve with this kind of product. I’m completely 50/50 on this without doing the comparison myself. I might have to even if it’s going to cost me. Ha.
It's worth checking for yourself so you can get over the scepticism because the Modius is great, but the BF2/64 is even better
I wish the Yggy had the same form factor as the Bifrost 2. It's the only factor stopping me from buying it. The Bifrost 2 would fit perfectly on my desk, the Yggy is just too big..
The Yggy is a big beast, but there's not much wasted space in there so it kind of has to be beefy
I finally got the Bifrost 2/64 to try and it was too bright. Harsh
Too bad as well because the time domain sounded good.
I sent it back.
Did you give it a little time to get used to it and what were you coming from as your previous DAC?
@@PassionforSound yes of course. I’m not a newbie at this. Sorry didn’t mean that in a snarky manner.
Yeah I kept it on all the time as well to take away the factor of break In as well if that exists.
My previous DAC is a Marantz HD DAC1. And it’s not rolled off.
At the same time I also had a mojo 2 with me and Topping D30pro. Both of those are rolled off too much for me.
The 2/64 was too harsh/bright and not very cohesive . The texture was interestingly good tho.
That's interesting and I didn't take it as snarky - I'm just trying to work out why you perceived it that way. The Mojo 2 is definitely not rolled off so I think there's a characteristic of the sound that you're perceiving as extension that's actually not. I don't know the D30 or the Marantz to add further context, but I have a feeling there could be two things going on. Firstly, I think your speakers or headphones might be on the brighter/shoutier side and that's influencing the DACs you prefer (this isn't a criticism). Secondly, some DACs bring the details all forward while others (Mojo 2 as an example) layer the sounds more and can sound less energetic as a result. I think that might be contributing to your perceptions too.
In the end, it's about what you enjoy so it's fine if you didn't enjoy the Bifrost 2/64. I was just surprised that you found it bright and harsh, but I think it's because of how it synergizes with your existing chain.
@@PassionforSound there are actually many who have noted the brightness.
But yeah I get what you mean.
@@PassionforSound btw my system is quite balanced. As a musician I like it more than way. I use a benchmark AHB2 amp fed by a benchmark LA4 pre, and out to Proac DT8 speakers with an external crossover I built.
I also take measurements of my room with REW and the freq response is very much close to a Harmon curve, with an RT60 decay of around 450ms and very smooth and even down to around 400hz.
So I know it isn’t overly bright.
I super anal about my sound. Every time I sit on the sofa and go “ something is off” , my wife goes “ uh oh, are the laser and microphone coming out now?”
Lmao. I swear she has said that. So funny. She knows how crazy I am
Lol.
Have a good one !
According to users, sometime there's distortion through the USB signal that can only be fixed by cycling through the inputs...(The company didn't solve the problem)
I've used the Bifrost 2 and 2/64 for years now and never once had this issue so I'd suggest it's either a relatively rare fault in those specific units (I haven't had any other comments about it), or it could be an issue with noise coming from the source devices (i.e. computer) and therefore would be difficult to recreate for Schiit to problem-solve.
First let me say, I was born with a hearing issue called "cookie bite". I can hear the highs and lows but certain mid-range I can't hear. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Own the ES9026PRO (Classic J2) and it was hooked to my Hi Fi system using speakers (Focal Choras). I just loved the sound and was going to order another for my headphone system which I was using ERISH2 [E2] to pair too but I decided to purchase the Bifrost 2/64. Using my speaker system I found the new Bifrost was bass heavy with detail up top but with vocals set back and lower then I would like. I then swapped and I placed the J2 back to the speaker system and the Bifrost 2/64 to headphone duty. Using Focal Elex headphones the Bifrost 2/64 was simply incredible with headphones but didn't sound good at all with my speaker system. The J2 just can't be beat with my speaker setup. Could just be my hearing. I'm having a friend come over and will swap them back and give it another try.
That's interesting that you heard such differences between the two DACs and that the headphone and speaker setups differed so significantly. Thanks for sharing!
@@PassionforSound I found the problem. My Bluenode's volume was not set to fixed. It was 1/4 down from max. The Bifrost sounds amazing on my stereo now.
So glad you worked it out! Thanks for coming back to let us all know
Nice one. Sorry to be the irritating guy that talks about a different product to what the review is about. I just bought a new Gungnir from Schiit US. They had a crazy deal on B-stocks so I think they were doing a clearout. I read on their site that they don't do deals, ever. Then a few days later they have a Black Friday sale on, with a splash screen up saying hell had frozen over 🤣🤣🤣. I like those guys, they're funny. I also read on the forums and heard your interview with Jason saying that the AD chips are getting harder and harder to get. Also think I heard Jason say that the 2/64 is really close to the Gungnir. I'll bet. Maybe the tonality is a bit different with the different chips.
My attempt to be well behaved and not spend on audio gear this time around, lasted about 6 months! It'll be replacing a Chord Mojo 2 so, looking forward to it. Heard your review where you said the Mojo 2 was in the same league as the Bifrost 2, so I figured I'd just try and push it up a tiny little notch for a little bit more spondoolies. Although for most I expect- the 2/64 might be the way to go as that can be upgraded for years. As Jason said- they don't know what they're going to do with the Gungnir.
Schiit Black Friday sale still on at the moment btw folks.
Not a problem at all, Will. Happy to talk about all things audio!
Nice choice on the Gungnir! Was it a Multibit?
@@PassionforSound Yeah I grabbed a multibit, unison USB. Just rewatched your interview with Jason. That'll be good for another watch at some point I'm sure, great interview. And I think this is what's great about good content like this- people can keep coming back to it, or come to it when they reach that point on their journey with their systems. Someone might find a great deal on a second hand product that's a few years old. Then they can find reviews and learn about it.
It is obvious that Jason cares about his products and his customers. It's my first Schiit product, they are more rare and a bit more expensive in England, Chord DACs are relatively much cheaper and pretty common. I've never got on well with delta sigma DACs but always found the Chord DACs ok. Enjoyed the Qutest with a Feliks Elise valve amp. But just picked up a Violectric V281 now, curious about the Gungnir. I love valves, love them, but, can't really live with them. Trying to get a solid state sound that's somewhat valve like, without the hassle, power consumption, noise levels, messing about that's common with tubes. Enjoying the Violectric V281 more and more.
That's great! I hope you love your Gumby! I owned one before I got my Qutest (it was a pre-Unison and pre-Analog 2 model) and it's a great DAC
This or Gustard R26 ?
I think the R26 is slightly better, but also larger and more expensive...
@ ok got it. Thanks for the reply. I’m still searching for a good dac, Gustard R26 is top of the list, but I find it’s too big for my table setup, together with my Aune S17 pro. 🤣
@ ok got it. Thanks for the reply. I’m still searching for a good dac, Gustard R26 is top of the list, but I find it’s too big for my table setup, together with my Aune S17 pro. Currently still using my DAPs as my source.
@CoffeeXmusic if you want something more compact, the Bifrost 2 and Geshelli J3 Pro are about as good as you'll get. Or the Chord Qutest if you're happy to have an exceptional RCA output instead of XLR.
Bifrost 2 vs Mojo2?
They're very similar in performance so I'd choose based on the form factor and features you value (e.g. EQ and crossfeed on Mojo 2)
amazing shirt 😹
Yeah, one of my faves!
I guess it's safe to say this is going to kick my Modius in the schiiter.
Yep. 'fraid so 🙂
The OG Bifrost 2 is miles better for me than the 2/64 and the closest in sound to the Yggy OG.
How long did you spend with the 2/64?
@@PassionforSound Granted not very long. Left it on overnight though. Missed the thick rich density. OG Bifrost 2 was too good. Even preferable for me to my A1 Gungnir which had worse blackground compared to BF2.
If you really like the thicker sound, that would make sense. I can't remember how long the 2/64 took to settle down, but I know I didn't enjoy it much at first.
.
With a new unit , it takes about 50 hours for the circuit components to break in .
.
About DAC "tone"......................
I'll assume from your review that different circuit designs produce different sonic tone. Can you point out a DAC that is designed only for accurate bit conversion (assuming a published rate) without circuitry designed to alter "tone". I want to let my tube Preamp alone effecting tone.
I'd say that most DACs are intended to be transparent when it comes to tone. They'll basically all measure flat in terms of frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz.
Where things get more nuanced is that every op-amp, transistor, resistor, capacitor, etc. imparts its own character (some more than others) so there's no way of knowing what's truly "correct".
When it comes to choosing a neutral DAC, I think you just need to focus on the other features/characteristics that you care about. E.g. soundstage size and depth, instrument separation, detail resolution, etc. There are a few exceptions that are noticeably smoother/warmer (e.g. Denafrips Ares 2), but they're the exception
@@PassionforSound I appreciate that. Thank-you.
I hope CEE TEE has sent PfS a Piety for review.
Nothing that's been discussed with me and I didn't try to get one because it's always difficult on limited runs
That's a shame. I would like to have seen your evaluation. I never realized that an amp could expand the soundstage so much.
In a strange twist of fate, CEE TEE offered me a second one. Do you want to review it? I can ask him to send it to you, if you will ship it back to me when done. I am in Portland OR.
It is a conditional offer based on availability after all orders are filled, so may be of no interest to you or your listeners given it sold out. But if one is available, glad to let you have a listen.
Right now I'm using Piety as a preamp for my old NAD integrated amp to power my bookshelve speakers. So, I've been tinkering with the two volume controls and the gain switch. It seems to improve everything it touches.
How it fairs against r2r under 1k like denafrips and draco. Just my opinion, always thought multibit is a inbetween r2r and delta sigma..
Here's a video that might help: th-cam.com/video/weTHhG0X0pY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=aO9MFEljKn0MzudC
Bifrost 2/64: Schiit Mario World
I love it!
Schiit are becoming like Topping; changing their models too often., but at least you can upgrade +$£.
Good review.
LOL...no...
1) You’re wrong
2) They had to upgrade the Bifrost 2 because supply chain issues dictated a design change
@@thehawk05 3) you work for Schiit 🤣🤣
@@mariodrv 😅😅
The Hawk is right that the recent flurry of new models (which I agree would be too much under normal circumstances) have been out of necessity and planning for the future challenges they might face
Okay need to stop you here with your delta sigma paintbrush. Pilium makes a $40,000 delta sigma DAC with 3 transformers and 8 akm chips. It’s getting replaced by an even more powerful one that will be closer to $90,000. What gives you more of that depth and density is a more powerful discrete analog output stage. If you heard a pilium you would have no clue if it was a chip DAC at all. You can make a DAC out of everything but what is more important is the filters, analog output power and power supply robustness. The new DCS Vilvaldi Apex is sublime and a steel for 40k because before it you were spending over 100k. The Bartok is junk buy the way complete junk in comparison to their real dacs and its just a wimp in terms of power and output stage in comparison. It is their BMW 1 series or Mercedes A class. Also you have to hear the 150,000 wadex dac. I uses a highly modified Lampizator I recaped with Goldnote and Vcaps and a huge clarity cap over the power choke. I also changed the resistors to audionote and put a cover over my transformer to lower EMI. I prefer Sophia electric 274B power rectifier tubes as well for it. It was a night and day difference that had nothing to do with the digital end. I even replaced the digital power caps from the nasty brown chinese junk caps to top end Nichicon's highest grade.I also have a Jottenhein 2 with it's built in dac for work and its solid for an all on 1 box and it is a new ESS 9028 but with Shiit's filters. Since it is integrated into the amp with the short signal path and no cables reduce so many problems with "chip" dacs and their poor op amp based output stages into XLR cables that squash dynamics. Op Amps in that card work better because it has to travel an inch and a half and doesn't need a cable there to lose information.
I farted during this review. Twice.
💨💨
Why would you get a bifrost 2 when the mojo 2 exist. Moto2 is even better than the Qutest according to the golden boy.
Why would you use a Mojo 2 in a desktop headphone rig? That makes no sense at all
@@thehawk05 it makes perfect sense because it sounds better.
The Mojo 2 isn't much fun to use in a desktop setup due to its ergonomics and the Bifrost 264 and Mojo 2 are on roughly the same level with each having sonic benefits where some will prefer one over the other.
Bifrost 2 offers full size RCA, XLR and USB-B connections (for those who want that) and the ability to connect multiple sources and switch (Mojo 2 prioritises connected sources rather than letting you choose).
Finally Golden didn't say the Mojo 2 is better - he said he preferred it. There's a significant difference. Specifically, it's based on opinion and preference which means not everyone will experience it the same way
@@PassionforSound Comparing it to the Qutest he said just on sound alone I think the Moto2 is a better DAC.
But are you Cameron though?
YOU might like another DAC more than the Mojo 2