Have both yggy LIM and bifrost 2. B2 is warmer and slightly looser at the bottom end. LIM digs deep in the bass and tightens it up really nicely, but less mass. B2 is a little more in your face with a "look at me" approach whilst LIM kind of gets out of the way of itself. The yggys top end is more pleasant and refined aswell. The yggys sound is very difficult to criticize, it just sounds "right". Another difference is is how black the background is on the LIM. The blackground helps define the instruments in space which is very satisfying and sorely missed when switching back to B2. The differences between the dacs are not world changing, I can see some people preferring the Bifrost for some applications where warmth is needed. Overall the LIM is end game for me but B2 is in my opinion the benchmark for its price and I subsequently recommend it for most contexts.
Is the LiM more detailed? I’m trying to decide between the OG and the Bifrost 2. I’ve heard that the OG is the most similar sounding to the BF2 but the LiM isn’t too far behind. I need bass slam and detail so is I’m assuming the LiM is not the best choice for me?
@@brianpacheco1927 It sounds like the OG would be best fit for you, unless you cant justify the extra 2k, in which case the bifrost 2 is a hell of a deal. Bifrost 2 lacks detail from the lim and the lim lacks detail from the OG. The lim is basically a smoothed off OG and more laidback in terms of dynamics and in your face detail. OG will give you a fair amount of slam and the detail you’re after. What amp and headphones are you pairing?
The Yggdrasil gives a real sounding front to back. Some digital chip DACs give an enhanced sense of depth which is not how music sounds naturally. Being a musician, I have noticed that for some time.... That is not to say I do not enjoy the enhanced sense of depth. Its the lack of listening fatigue that the Yggdrasil offers in spades that I like overall and prefer.
I'm fine with the $849 BF2/64. I can't justify $2299 (that's almost 3 times as expensive). For me to spend, it has to be an obvious and profound improvement, not a slight difference or a side grade. Especially since we get into subjective sound preference. The BF2/64 is a profound improvement over the modi/modius. The modius does not do what the BF2/64 can. Well worth the price, and no need to spend more.The YGGY does nothing special for me that the BF2 doesn't do. I agree with Jason. I would not be shocked if they dump the yggdrasil in the near future.
Yggy is a clear upgrade over the BF2/64 to me and it's not getting dropped anytime soon + they just produced the new future-proof version. That said, the BF264 is definitely more of a leap from the Modius than Yggy is from BF264 so I also agree that there's not a NEED to upgrade the BF264. Happy listening! 🙂🙂
I’d love to hear your take on the Gungnir Multibit! It’s my beloved DAC and when I auditioned the Bifrost I enjoyed it so much that it spurred me to find a used Gungnir and go for the next step up. Since I haven’t heard much else in that price range I’d love to hear your take on some comparisons. Love the videos friend!
I used to own a Gumby with the old analog board and USB v5. It was great. It got displaced, by the Chord Qutest, but I'd be interested to compare the current Gumby and Qutest to see how they stack up with Analog 2 and Unison in the Gumby.
@@PassionforSound I was waiting the Gumby to have stock with VCXO again and think to upgrade from BF2 OG. I love the BF2 OG experience and wanted the same experience elevated. But Jason mentioned recently they cannot get the AD chips any longer, also the Black version of Gumby is not selectable anymore from web, so suspecting the gumby is vanishing in any moment. Maybe at this point, having the Yggy and BF2/64 updates, I think is time to make a rethinking of Gumby having again the VCXO, TI chips and Autonomy like BF2. Yggy OG is so pretty tempting, but my usage of the dac to tube amp via RCA and speakers via XLR, and I use them for long listening session as well for long gaming session. But Yggy is so complex on how works internally that I think it would not work well while gaming, while Gumby is more simple, like a direct upgrade from BF with just the right Yggy ingredients added and according to people has the bass much more extended. Whatever, dont know what to do, get VCXO gumby with classic AD chips before a possible vanish, upgrade BF2 OG to BG2/64... I really just want to keep schiit multibit experience. I made a look to Holo Audio Spring 3, but dont know based on Denafrips FIFO technology giving problems for gaming with sound delays, tho the people say with Holo Spring FIFO isnt happening I am not feeling safe with the FIFO tech for gaming or watch movies. I think for multipurpose (listening, gaming, movies), is better schiit multibit based on chips than the R2R ladder design as it seems are doing exclusive for music listening.
It's definitely a tough call. I would personally stick with the BF2 or upgrade to Yggy. There are no issues at all using Yggy for gaming and other computer tasks based on my experiences. BF2 is already so close to Yggy OG that you might be right and the Gumby might disappear, but I don't know for sure.
thank you very much for this long awaited review and I think you absolutely should have interview with Mike Moffat. he mentioned in one of the streams last year that one of the things he's working on involves FPGA and I'm hoping he'll either collaborate with Rob Watts (he's independent really) or come up with his own design that will kick Chord's butt at 1/3 of the price. or something like that.
I don't see any collaboration between Moffat or Watts happening. FPGA is just a hardware circuit, its like expecting a coop between Apple and Google because Apple is looking into using a Carl Zeiss lens. I'm looking forward to see what Mike Moffat can do with FPGA, I have the feeling multibit has maybe reached its potential.
I tend to agree about the unlikelihood of a collab. There's a very good chance that Chord have an exclusive license in Rob's WTA filters and Mike is equally as skilled with DACs I think - just taking a different approach.
I feel two ways about this review. On one hand, people who have owned them say the Yggy is in another league entirely, but on the other hand I have a less expensive dac that is better in the same ways you describe the yggy over the B2: B2 is narrower soundstage with less separation.
I've not tried the current Gumby (owned an A1, USB5 version). I expect it will split the difference, but the difference is so small that it will be only aarginal step up from the Bifrost 2
I love the sound of my bifrost 2. Love the bass, and midrange, but sometimes feel like the highs could use just a little more bite. Does the Yggdrasil OG have a slightly more edgier treble compared to the bifrost 2? Thanks
I don't know if I'd describe it as edgier, but I do feel like there's a slightly greater sense of clarity and detail from the Yggy so I think it will fix what the BF2 is missing for you.
I would think schiit at this point would send you a LIM and OG Yggy+ so you can test the differences. I would think if they just sold a couple from your attention to the products it would be worth it to them. Plus it would be one of the most interesting convos on your channel imo.
I've asked before and they've been very generous sending a bunch of review products so, for whatever reason, it seems the LIM and MIL are a no-go for now and I respect that because they've been very generous with other products
@@PassionforSound This may've been because they likely suspected that the MIL version wasn't long for this world. You should touch base with Schiit again as they're intending to release an updated MIL (MIL-B or MIM, not sure the name) using Texas Instruments revised DAC chip. The few that have heard the new MIL-B say that it's quite something. I'd love your take on both of these flavors, especially during the infancy of the MIL-B! :)
Great timing, great content, and great review. My Schiit yggy mil just arrived today. I’m just waiting on my soloist gt to arrived to listen to them. You inspired me to get this combo.
@@PassionforSound thanks for replying passion. I watched some of your cable reviews, I can’t decide to go with what cables to upgrade to. Any recommendations on usb, interconnects cables that suit the gt and yggy together? Also not too expensive, bang for value cables.
I think the best value for money cables I've tried so far are the various Supra cables. They make cables at various levels depending on your budget. I actually have a whole bunch here now to compare and review, but that video is a little while away
@@PassionforSound, Also, you might try Pangea Premier MKII with the following specs in the 1.5 Meter version for $69.00 US. Tough woven nylon braided jacket (black/gray) Signal Conductors: 23awg 6% Silver-plated Cardas Grade One Copper Signal Conductor Insulation: Advanced form of PE polyethylene Power Conductors: 20awg tinned copper Shielding: Triple Shielded. Signal shielded from power, and overall double shield
I had Yggy OG and Holo Spring 3 KTE. Yggy has better punch, more forward sound, and Holo is smoother, better layering, depth, and less forward. So I kept Holo because it sounded better with speakers, specially because I upsample with HQPlayer which brings a bit sharper/faster sound to Holo. Both great DACs, could live with both easily.
@@susokraut3169 no i didn't know. I dont know which input on preamp is playing. But even without blind test, it would be easy to hear the difference on a decent transparent system
My Schiit LiM is crazy good. By far the best dac I have ever owned. Ticks all the boxes for my listening preferences. I am sure BF2 is also a viable alternative especially from a budget-conscious standpoint. Now my final task is to acquire a Mjolnir 3 amp to replace my GSX Mini amp...
I hope this channel gets the opportunity to review the upcoming SA Bifrost 2/64 that has the Yggy LIM DAC chips. If the new DAC sounds as good as I think it will, I'll update the board and firmware in my BF2.
I love the videos man, but something is up with your audio, it sounds like your mic or the compressor on your voice is just too harsh. Something is a little too much.
I'm actually using less compression these days than before. Not sure why this one would sound different as it's an identical set of parameters applied to every video
So having owned both bf2 and yggi og, i can say that the difference is absolutely massive. Bf2 suffers from extremely poor layering and detail in general, the upper bass is almost boomy, which can hide the lower mids. If there are more then like, 3 instruments playing at the same time, regardless of where they are placed, everything just blends in to a muddy mess making it basically impossible to discern anything. The upper mids and treble also have some grain to them, which is really surprising considering its warmer and more ''layed back'' tonality. Id honestly rather run a dongle then bf2, its easily the worst dac ive ever tried. Yggi on the other hand, shares a similar warm tonality with the added punch to the sub and upper bass, tho it doesnt have any of the issues that bf2 has. The way the stage is presented feels very natural. Its wide, all the instruments/vocals feel like they are placed where they should be in a very convincing way, there is very little veiling if multiple instruments are placed behind one another. There is also no treble harshness, infact, i feel like yggi has the tendency to somehow keep the upper mid/treble energy well making it less fatiguing at the same time, very similarly to higher end tube amps. Yggi og is honestly very tube like in general. For band music, yggi og is the best dac ive heard so far.
I've had my Yggy Analog 2 Unison for over two years and recently decided to compare it to a very hyped Denafrips Pontus II, so I bought one. I couldn't find anything in its sound signature that would make me put the Yggy up for sale, so the Pontus II went to another owner. I was also thinking about the Chord TT2 but not sure if the difference in price will be justified by the level of possible acoustic enhancements. Moreover, I never liked the Chord design - IMO their devices look like dial-up modems from the early 2000s.
Lol. If you don't like the Chord design, that's totally fair. The TT2 is a significant step up, but as I said in this review, the Yggy reaches a level of performance where upgrading starts to feel less necessary. That's very interesting and the Pontus II too. I'm hoping to try one myself this year
@@PassionforSoundDespite my dislikes about the visual aesthetics of the Chord design, I decided to compare the Hugo TT2 to Yggy and I bought one. Very soon, I'm going to hear that highly accoladed DAC/Amp with my own ears - the unit should arrive next week. I hope the Yggy wins, and I won't have to buy the M Scaler too LOL.
I discussed that in the video very briefly. I've found that to be not the case (subjectively) and it's also been measured objectively to show the same. That one is all placebo I'm afraid.
There are arguments that suggest leaving it on will prolong its life by not creating the initial surge of power at startup too often. I don't know which actually ends up being better though
Lovely review. I love my Yggy OG. Too bad you weren't able to get to try LIM, based off of what I know about it I think it would actually be a more synergistic pairing with amps like the Ares and Soloist GT. Mike/Jason mentioned in a live stream that more DACs are coming in 2022 (and they weren't just talking about ESS versions of Modi and Modius). I kind of hope LIM trickles down to Bifrost 2 (should be easy since it has user replaceable modules) and perhaps a Gungir 2 launch (perhaps it'll launch with the Urd since they're in the same chassis sizes).
I’d like to see how they’re going to put out new DACs when they’re having supply chain issues with their current lineup. Gumby is now long in the tooth so would be nice to see an upgrade for it.
Hi Lachlan. I just received my Yggy + LIM. It is replacing my Bifrost 2/64, and I’ve got to say the difference between the two is striking. I have this paired with an Urd and listen to only (for the time being) strictly CDs. What an amazing combination. While I did enjoy the Bifrost 2, the main difference I noticed is the “size” of the soundstage. I listen to mainly speakers in a decent sized room. Soundstage seems larger in height which is interesting. Other comparisons are pretty much as you have stated. Depth seems to be about the same as the Bifrost, and love the details from the Yggy. All in all I am very happy I made the jump to the Yggy. Keep up the great work!
What do you recommend for a streamer? Price being somewhat not of a concern. I don’t want to slap a $300 wireless streamer in here but some $20k Aurender need not apply. Something equivalent to its $2800 price. Thanks! Looking for wireless streaming thru tidal
I don't yet have lots of streamer experience, but something like the Raspberry Pi setups with Volumio can sound great if you don't need a display. There are also some excellent options from Matrix Audio like the Mini-i 3 Pro. And finally, check out this roundup for more ideas: th-cam.com/video/8LvVEEpmuDg/w-d-xo.html
Multibit DACs are ladder DACs. They just use ladder DAC chips instead of ladder DAC circuits made from fully discrete resistors. That's not saying that the designs are exactly the same, but they're all variants of ladder DACs.
I did instant switch AB test of originally Iggy A2 with EBU input vs Dave+Mscaller. One important thing to note: before I got to instant AB switch I was super convinced that Dave was superior. When I did instant AB I found them surprisingly close and similar in sound qualities. I associated this first to Yggy being longer switched on (since then I keep it always on) but maybe it was just my brain. I need to note, my room wasn't fully treated at that time (but I got it measured and corrected partially via Minidsp SHD). I got also some non-orthodox components in my system (some top notch, some pro grade, good quality though regular PC as the source), so I can't say if there are bottle necks in my system, however I very satisfied with outcome vs some "proper" hi-end setups. Today I run Less is More version which I find clearly superior to OG (A2) and my room is well treated. I am actually curious how would Dave perform today. I had also TT2 here and somehow I can't imagine it could edge out Yggy
That's interesting. You mentioned in another post about the impact of the speakers, room, etc. on the listening experience. It's quite possible that the setup is influencing the end result and that's why it's so important that people choose what they enjoy and not what someone, somewhere says is "the best". For me, as a dedicated headphone listener (no speakers), the TT2 is clearly superior than Yggy OG in many ways, but there are many setups where I still prefer the Yggy's delivery of the music.
@Passion for Sound, you are right. I think we've had this discussion already. Headphones is a different experience, and probably even cheap, pro grade Beyerdynamic 990 will give you more details than full range speakers sitting 3.5 meters from your ears. You can hear the difference even vs close field monitors. Anyway I enjoy more full range experience as the whole body is one large sound sensor. Listening through ears only feels somewhat artificial, but I agree it can give more insights
I use Gryphon Diablo 250 amplifier and Revel Performa F208 speakers and interconnection XLR Chord Tuned Aray and CD player as major music source. What is the best choice for my setup? OG or LIM?
Thanks for the video. It feels like schiit is competitive at the cost of size and to some extent basic template design. Then, 45W is a lot without amp. Mojo2, Hugo 2 are more compact, and also manage to consume very little power in comparison 1-3W, I believe because software based. Smaller bills helps relaxing when listening to music :) Furthermore, any device will get obsolete at some point, and we are stuck with the space it takes.
Schiit is probably not for the power conscious - that's true. As for it becoming obsolete, the new Yggy+ chassis will keep it upgradeable for many years to come - that's not something most DACs can offer
Love that shirt lol. Access to the playlist and notes sounds interesting, is that available to all patreon tiers? At some point I should probably create an account. It's hard to sort this all out on your own if you don't have the money to try out a lot of products. I'm looking for a particular musical experience for a particular reason, if that makes sense, and I'm having trouble figuring it out.
Yeah, that can be tough! I'm actually building (and rebuilding) a course to help with this exact challenge so hopefully I can get that out in 2023. As for the Patreon benefits, they're all explained on the site, but basically, different tiers get different benefits with things like the playlists, early access to reviews and monthly Q&A calls. Unfortunately I can't recall which tiers get access to the playlists. I think it's the second tier up and above, but don't hold me to that... 🙂 Would love to see you join the clan.
It's on the way (as in, the amp is being produced and coming soon). It's all thanks to a channel patron who has been kind enough to have his sent to me first before it goes to him.
I haven't ever compared them side-by-side, but I prefer the sound of the Qutest to the ADI-2 and I preferred the Qutest by a small margin over the lower level Schiit Gungnir Multibit (an old one with the original analog stage). So, I am guessing the Yggy OG will be comfortably better (to me) than the ADI-2. Not sure about Pontus II, but would likely prefer it I think. The ADI-2 has quite an etched / sharp sound to it that I don't necessarily like so while it's a good DAC and offers incredibly powerful features (EQ, crossfeed, etc.) I don't consider it a preference for me in most comparisons
How would you compare the micro detail on the OG compared to the Bifrost 2? I’ve heard the OG is more detailed compare to the LiM since it uses less bits (16 bit vs 20 bit) but the LiM has a blacker background so instrument separation is better.
I am curious how this compares to my gumby multibit. I am planing to upgrade but i'm still analysing the options. compared to deslta sigma dacs I like multibit a lot more as they are wormer.
I owned a Gumby MB before I upgraded to the Chord Qutest. The Yggy is significantly better than what the Qutest was so it will be a big step up on the Gumby too. Better soundstage and more resolution across the board, but still a nice, warm tonality.
I'm voting for yes! You muatbinterview mike mofit ! He is a legend in the digital/dac world! And to top it off his interviews are always some of the most entertaining you will ever see in this industry! Not many like Jason and Mike of schiit audio! Thanks!
Just the review I've been waiting for! My BF2 has been awesome but have been considering jumping up to a Yiggy. I was thinking I'd be willing to pay the extra for the OG over the LIM solely for the fact that those are shipping out in only a couple of days vs 6-8 weeks for the LIM, but that blackground described for the LIM has me considering it now. I had a buddy over last night to hear my system and he was impressed with the BF2, and he has a Holo Spring 2 KTE.
@@PassionforSound Well, I made a purchase, but not a new DAC! I got a great deal on a pair of Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Mono block amps to replace a AVA SET 120 amp. Thanks for doing these great reviews!
I had the Bifrost 2 for a short while. While it had a natural color, it couldn't keep up with orchestral music. Slow transients, muddled soundstage, weak dynamic swings are how I would describe the presentation. (System: Lake People G111 headphone amp, Beyerdynamic DT1990 pro and DT 880 600 ohm, Drop HD58x Jubilee) I replaced it with the Topping D70s which uses dual AKM chips and have been very satisfied.
Thanks for providing this alternate viewpoint from the usual. I’m looking a DAC for classical/orchestral and had that exact question about the Bifrost 2. Sounds like a great DAC but like you I need something closer to the Topping.
I don't mean for a second to question anyone's preferences, but it's worth noting that the presentation of Schiit Multibit DACs is quite different from delta sigma chip-based DACs (AKM, ESS, etc.). The DS chip DACs will flatten the soundstage and push everything forward which creates a perception of extra detail and clarity. That can absolutely be preferable for some people and some setups. I personally prefer the depth and 3-dimensionality of the Multibit approach, but it's all personal preference - neither is right or wrong.
@@PassionforSound I currently own the Singxer SDA-6 Pro and the Gustard A18 DACs. They are both based on the AK4499 chip but the Singxer sound much smoother, more musical and less in your face and bigger sounstage over to the Gustard while retaining all the details. I would be curious to hear how the SDA-6 would stack up against the Biftost2, latest Gumby and Yggy Lim.
Being an AK-based DAC, the one thing I know instantly is that it will have a flatter soundstage with minimal depth or 3-dimensionality. Beyond that, I can't say.
@@PassionforSound The overall implementation of the chipset plays an important role in the sound quality and presentation, the high quality components in the SDA-6 DAC makes it very musical and soundstage depth is excellent compared to the flatter soundstage and dryer sound of the Gustard A18 despite both having the AK4499 chipset. The Singxer SDA-6 is really worth trying ! Hopefully one day you could get one to review, cheers !
I wanted to go for the spring three but then I remembered that your spot on with your reviews. But did you try over sampling with spring from your PC or streamer? ps: I got me the Excalibur USB cable after your review and its like I have a new dac. Wtf??
So cool about your Excalibur experience! I didn't upsample for the Spring so it might improve it a little, but I wouldn't expect it to match the Yggy still.
@@PassionforSound Wow I didn’t expect that. I mean the details should be better and realism too. Anyho it seems that the stretch to the Hugo TT 2 is the best choice. I’m so going for it.
Yeah, upsampling won't dramatically change a DAC no matter what anyone tells you. It can absolutely improve it, but there's only so much that upsampling can do. The TT2 with an upsampled signal will absolutely be a better choice IMO. Hope you love it!
So, it seems that the more money you put into Dac, the more refined sound quality you will be getting. There are almost no exception to that statement based on what I have heard from respecful/reliable reviewers like you. So that brings to my question, how would the Yggdrasil (OG) compared with Denafrips Pontus II if you happen to have chance to review it? Both are in the similar price point that I regard as the "sweet point" for the Dac.
That's a good way to look at it - more refinement, greater sense of space (in Schiit and Chord DACs at least), and often slightly better detail retrieval
Thank you for this review, It would be interesting if you could also review the difference between the Asgard and The Lyr, which are the main differences besides power.
Is there anything to look for in a review like this for someone who is only a 2ch listener. Vast majority of dac reviews seem to be based around headphones. Is it a bad idea to get info from dac reviews based on headphone listening...Is there something to look for that may help someone who only listen to speakers?
Generally speaking, things like overall tonality and staging characteristics are consistent, regardless of the rest of the chain and it's why I always try to contextualise with some comparisons. The challenge with taking headphone impressions to convert to speaker-based systems is that the room and interactions between the L/R channels can alter the sound so it's about understanding how your speakers currently perform, the general sound of the other parts of your chain, especially amp, and then trying to match the DAC characteristics to your needs (i.e. do you need something brighter, more aggressive, smoother, more spacious, etc. It's a tough connection to make sometimes, but if you check out a few different reviews and make a list of what you want more/less of from your next DAC, it should start to come together.
@@PassionforSound Understood. I've started looking at reviews where the reviewer primary listening are with headphones as a much more accurate way to to find out what a DACs sound signature is like...then I try and apply that to how it would fit in with what I have going on in my room. Can't be sure if I'm implementing my strategy correctly but I have to start somewhere. Thank you for the reply. Cheers
Does anyone knows the difference between the Bifrost 2 & the bifrost multibit? I have the original Bifrost multibit and don't know if I'm missing out on anything.
Great question! I'm not sure and couldn't find an answer on the Schiit website. My guess is it's a future proofing measure, but that's 100% speculation.
One more question if I may- you are a great person to ask this- I just bought a used Yggy A1 with Gen 5 USB. My PC has a good motherboard and I run a Supra Excalibur USB. Am I missing out on anything with Gen5 over Unison do you think? And if so is there a plug-in 'decrapifier' or galavantic isolation device that would make up for it or should i just install a Unison? Or naw? Thanks, Bro.@@PassionforSound
Another great question. It's probably worth emailing Schiit about it because they're not going to BS you. In the meantime, you could just grab the Topping HS02 which will isolate any noise, but it doesn't alter the sound quality in any way IME. I discussed it here: th-cam.com/video/pcDB_wc_llc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eOBw-h1DSrzBamca
Frya plus,2 agers, bitfrost 2,2 micro 1000 subs,buchart s400m2 silver wire fuana..man this sounds great I have much more expensive set ups but is is awesome 😮 out went the denifrips,,,,,,,in came bit frost.... next I getting the big boy...yigggy
I'm talking purely about the maths of going from very high sample rates to low sample rates and the reference to 192 is simply referring to the maximum of the Yggy, not a recommendation of which sample rate to use. You're right that it's better to stick with a clean multiple of the starting frequency when resampling - I wasn't talking specifics here though
I'll have to see what I can arrange, but I wonder if we're due for a new Gumby in 2022. It seems due... (I have no inside knowledge on this - it's pure speculation)
I don't completely agree with Mike on that one. My experiences with headphones are that they reveal different things than speakers so there'll be things you notice with headphones that you don't notice with speakers and vice versa
Yeah, it is pretty cumbersome, but for a speaker setup it's just going to sit in a cabinet or rack. For a desktop headphone setup, it is a little bit more challenging for sure
@@PassionforSound I’ve had the AQ Earth and Sky interconnects. The Earth is XLR and the Sky’s are RCA and I expected the Sky to sound better but the Earths did. I think it’s because they share the same circuit and it’s summed on the OG. It was a noticeable enough change to me. Apparently the LiM and MiL work differently in this regard where the SE sounds just as good. I think the SBAF forum goes into more detail about it.
You might want to mention that you use Spring 3 without any upsampling which is limiting the DAC by a LOT. With proper upsampling with HQPlayer or even Roon, Spring 3 blows Yggy out of the water in pretty much every regard.
I've never heard a DAC transform that significantly with upsampling. Even if it can, that is no help to people running sources that can't be upsampled (CD transport, streamer, etc.). At the same time, people who are using HQ Player could then enjoy the same benefits into other DACs so the performance of all DACs increases too so the benefits aren't really relevant anymore.
@@PassionforSound Yggy is upsacled by defintion. You are comparing upscaled perfomance with pure NOS. You can apply hqplayer upscaling to things like Tambaqui and get perfomance of 30-40k dacs for a reason. Some people prefer native NOS perfomance, you seem to to like upscaled, no reason not to use Spring this way and enjoy much better perfomance than you could ever get from Yggy.
Spring has internal oversampling which I tested in this video. I'm not saying people shouldn't use HQ Player - I'm saying it's an additional layer that isn't to everyone's tastes or capabilities to use.
@@PassionforSound Spring internal oversampling is ignored by most users to my knowing. People that dont like NOS and are getting this DAC will go for hqplayer. There was a recent discussion on golden sounds discord on your review, with many people wondering why you deliberatly been repeating that its overhyped while the DAC objectivly outperforms Yggy when proper oversampling is applied by and has NOS for those who prefer it (and those are many). In the end its all subjective taste, but there is a strong opinion outthere that you didnt do this thing justice :-)
That's like saying that a car hasn't been reviewed properly because they didn't strap a turbo onto the engine when discussing acceleration. I have no issues with people using HQ Player and enjoying it. The point is that if you are not using a PC as source then HQ Player isn't an option so I review each DAC with this in mind. How it will perform in a setup that anyone can recreate. It's also why I don't review products with non-standard power supplies or other tweaks. If someone is interested in using HQ Player then I'm sure they'll search for the info they need to find the best DAC for that setup and it's not my review. Likewise, if someone is looking for the best DAC to pair with their streamer or CD transport then my review is more helpful than any review using HQ Player. Different strokes for different folks
Chord is special. I was at RMAF a few years ago, and for some unfathomable reason, Moon Audio's table was often nearly or entirely abandoned (except for their rep) despite having, arguably, the best setup at the canjam. I got to listen to their Dave for quite a while (mostly with Utopias and HE-1000... SEs or v2s, I actually don't remember which), and it was like being forcibly ejected into another dimension. I've never heard anything like it since. Although I listened to a lot of high-end headphone gear that weekend, that Dave seared itself into my brain in a way that's made me forget most of the other stuff I listened to. It's absolutely other-worldly. If I ever live one of those stories where a hiker finds a huge chunk of gold in a mountain stream, I'm going straight to the nearest Chord dealer, banging that russet potato-sized nugget down on the counter, and bellowing, "Take me to your Daves!" (but in a genial, respectful way)
Suso, if you continue to be rude to viewers, I'll block you from the channel. You have a right to your opinions, but it is not acceptable to call other commenters names. Cablebrain asked politely that you return to a forum where you don't feel the need to abuse people and doesn't deserve any name calling.
Thank you so much for this review! I have had a Bifrost 2, and it is a DAC that I like a lot. However, I am now using a Denafrips Ares II; as in my speaker system, the soundstage, instrument separation and textures are better on the Ares II. So, if you are able to review the Denafrips Pontus II, which is about $1825US that would be wonderful. And even possibly the Venus II at about $3000US, but that is more money than I would likely want to spend.
I was fortunate enough to acquire some old Theta DAC's from around Australia for really cheap money....I know Mike use to work for Theta and I would love to one day hear a comparison between the Yggy and my Progency and Prime. Even my little Theta, the Cobalt 307 sounds extremely good to my ears. All DAC's are a keeper. This video was a great watch and perhaps a return to form for your channel!
I'm sorry to hear you feel like I fell out of form. Appreciate your story about the Thetas though. It would definitely be interesting to see how far Mike's designs and the technology available have progressed over the years
I have both the OG and the LIM and wrote up a formal review. I prefer the LIM . A friend has the Bifrost 2 and then got the OG. He prefers the OG over the Bifrost . Different strokes for different folks. Great to have so many choices.
@@PassionforSound I hope you get to. I have enjoyed my OG for many years. In my room, speakers only, once I put the LIM in the system, it just sounded right. My review is linked on the Schiit site. Keep up the good work.
@@PassionforSound I know! What I’m saying is that it’s just not necessarily a good thing for the user. I get tired of hearing about manufacturer’s serving their customers, when it’s an excessive amount of lip service in more cases than should be.
It's a tricky one. If they removed the AES to make space for say another optical, they'd be in trouble with people that wanted AES. It seems they made the decision to maximise the options (AES, BNC, RCA SPDIF, Toslink, USB) rather than multiples of any one format.
![ได้เวลา! พาน้องแฝดฉีดวัคซีนครบ 1 เดือน🫣 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.52 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IzeLtaXBLNE/mqdefault.jpg)
Have both yggy LIM and bifrost 2. B2 is warmer and slightly looser at the bottom end. LIM digs deep in the bass and tightens it up really nicely, but less mass. B2 is a little more in your face with a "look at me" approach whilst LIM kind of gets out of the way of itself. The yggys top end is more pleasant and refined aswell. The yggys sound is very difficult to criticize, it just sounds "right". Another difference is is how black the background is on the LIM. The blackground helps define the instruments in space which is very satisfying and sorely missed when switching back to B2. The differences between the dacs are not world changing, I can see some people preferring the Bifrost for some applications where warmth is needed. Overall the LIM is end game for me but B2 is in my opinion the benchmark for its price and I subsequently recommend it for most contexts.
Thanks so much for sharing your LIM experiences!
Is the LiM more detailed? I’m trying to decide between the OG and the Bifrost 2. I’ve heard that the OG is the most similar sounding to the BF2 but the LiM isn’t too far behind. I need bass slam and detail so is I’m assuming the LiM is not the best choice for me?
@@brianpacheco1927 It sounds like the OG would be best fit for you, unless you cant justify the extra 2k, in which case the bifrost 2 is a hell of a deal. Bifrost 2 lacks detail from the lim and the lim lacks detail from the OG. The lim is basically a smoothed off OG and more laidback in terms of dynamics and in your face detail. OG will give you a fair amount of slam and the detail you’re after. What amp and headphones are you pairing?
@@Iendhfufejpwl LCD-4 and a custom SET amp
@@brianpacheco1927 The OG should pair well with those. You might find the bifrost 2 to bottleneck the rest of your system.
The Yggdrasil gives a real sounding front to back. Some digital chip DACs give an enhanced sense of depth which is not how music sounds naturally. Being a musician, I have noticed that for some time.... That is not to say I do not enjoy the enhanced sense of depth. Its the lack of listening fatigue that the Yggdrasil offers in spades that I like overall and prefer.
I completely agree about the enjoyment factor of the Yggy. It's always fun to listen to
Yes, please talk to Mike Moffat.
It's in the works...
Yep I wouldn't have purchased the Yggy GS , if knew how much in common they have. Yes the Yggy is fricken huge , but I do really enjoy the sound .
The Yggy still beats the Bifrost so you have the better DAC (and the bigger DAC 😂)
I had the GS it has way more treble and better bass. Overall way more detailed too. I think it was a great value when it was being sold.
@@brianpacheco1927 Cool TY for letting me know , I felt stupid for buying it instead of the Bifrost.
You might be at a point where you can try a higher end Lampizator Baltic 3 and then a Mola Mola Tambaqui...that thing is a little beast
I'd definitely love to try both 🙂
Pls stop reviewing great DACs! 😆
I’ll be collecting my Ares II from Alvin - Vinshine today after a 5 days home trial.
Great review as always!
Haha. Sorry! Enjoy your Ares II!
The LiM variant is receiving rave reviews. Have a read through the thread on Super Audio Best Friends.
I would have loved to compare all three variants, but we couldn't quite make it happen
I'm fine with the $849 BF2/64. I can't justify $2299 (that's almost 3 times as expensive). For me to spend, it has to be an obvious and profound improvement, not a slight difference or a side grade. Especially since we get into subjective sound preference. The BF2/64 is a profound improvement over the modi/modius. The modius does not do what the BF2/64 can. Well worth the price, and no need to spend more.The YGGY does nothing special for me that the BF2 doesn't do. I agree with Jason. I would not be shocked if they dump the yggdrasil in the near future.
Yggy is a clear upgrade over the BF2/64 to me and it's not getting dropped anytime soon + they just produced the new future-proof version.
That said, the BF264 is definitely more of a leap from the Modius than Yggy is from BF264 so I also agree that there's not a NEED to upgrade the BF264. Happy listening! 🙂🙂
is that gigantic box a DAC?
Sure is! 😀
Any measurements?
Not from me. I'm not a speaker reviewer and it was a product launch so not really an occasion for testing and measuring
I’d love to hear your take on the Gungnir Multibit! It’s my beloved DAC and when I auditioned the Bifrost I enjoyed it so much that it spurred me to find a used Gungnir and go for the next step up. Since I haven’t heard much else in that price range I’d love to hear your take on some comparisons. Love the videos friend!
I used to own a Gumby with the old analog board and USB v5. It was great. It got displaced, by the Chord Qutest, but I'd be interested to compare the current Gumby and Qutest to see how they stack up with Analog 2 and Unison in the Gumby.
@@PassionforSound YggyOG v GumbyMB v TT2 😎😎😁😁
If there's a new Gumby in the future (which is probably due based on the recent Yggy and Bifrost 2 releases) then I'll definitely see what I can do
@@PassionforSound I was waiting the Gumby to have stock with VCXO again and think to upgrade from BF2 OG. I love the BF2 OG experience and wanted the same experience elevated. But Jason mentioned recently they cannot get the AD chips any longer, also the Black version of Gumby is not selectable anymore from web, so suspecting the gumby is vanishing in any moment. Maybe at this point, having the Yggy and BF2/64 updates, I think is time to make a rethinking of Gumby having again the VCXO, TI chips and Autonomy like BF2.
Yggy OG is so pretty tempting, but my usage of the dac to tube amp via RCA and speakers via XLR, and I use them for long listening session as well for long gaming session. But Yggy is so complex on how works internally that I think it would not work well while gaming, while Gumby is more simple, like a direct upgrade from BF with just the right Yggy ingredients added and according to people has the bass much more extended.
Whatever, dont know what to do, get VCXO gumby with classic AD chips before a possible vanish, upgrade BF2 OG to BG2/64... I really just want to keep schiit multibit experience. I made a look to Holo Audio Spring 3, but dont know based on Denafrips FIFO technology giving problems for gaming with sound delays, tho the people say with Holo Spring FIFO isnt happening I am not feeling safe with the FIFO tech for gaming or watch movies. I think for multipurpose (listening, gaming, movies), is better schiit multibit based on chips than the R2R ladder design as it seems are doing exclusive for music listening.
It's definitely a tough call. I would personally stick with the BF2 or upgrade to Yggy. There are no issues at all using Yggy for gaming and other computer tasks based on my experiences.
BF2 is already so close to Yggy OG that you might be right and the Gumby might disappear, but I don't know for sure.
thank you very much for this long awaited review and I think you absolutely should have interview with Mike Moffat. he mentioned in one of the streams last year that one of the things he's working on involves FPGA and I'm hoping he'll either collaborate with Rob Watts (he's independent really) or come up with his own design that will kick Chord's butt at 1/3 of the price. or something like that.
I'm working with Schiit on scheduling something soon. Stay tuned... 🙂
I don't see any collaboration between Moffat or Watts happening. FPGA is just a hardware circuit, its like expecting a coop between Apple and Google because Apple is looking into using a Carl Zeiss lens. I'm looking forward to see what Mike Moffat can do with FPGA, I have the feeling multibit has maybe reached its potential.
I tend to agree about the unlikelihood of a collab. There's a very good chance that Chord have an exclusive license in Rob's WTA filters and Mike is equally as skilled with DACs I think - just taking a different approach.
I feel two ways about this review. On one hand, people who have owned them say the Yggy is in another league entirely, but on the other hand I have a less expensive dac that is better in the same ways you describe the yggy over the B2: B2 is narrower soundstage with less separation.
In the end, I think it all comes down to priorities and preferences. If you're happy, just relax and enjoy! 🙂
@@PassionforSound I'll be happy when I find the perfect combo of every component
You and me both 🙂
How would the Gungnir MB [A2] compare with these?
I've not tried the current Gumby (owned an A1, USB5 version). I expect it will split the difference, but the difference is so small that it will be only aarginal step up from the Bifrost 2
Maybe I missed it, but which CD player did you use to test this?
This was all digital inputs from a PC and/or DDC (Singxer SU-6)
I love the sound of my bifrost 2. Love the bass, and midrange, but sometimes feel like the highs could use just a little more bite. Does the Yggdrasil OG have a slightly more edgier treble compared to the bifrost 2? Thanks
I don't know if I'd describe it as edgier, but I do feel like there's a slightly greater sense of clarity and detail from the Yggy so I think it will fix what the BF2 is missing for you.
I would think schiit at this point would send you a LIM and OG Yggy+ so you can test the differences. I would think if they just sold a couple from your attention to the products it would be worth it to them. Plus it would be one of the most interesting convos on your channel imo.
I've asked before and they've been very generous sending a bunch of review products so, for whatever reason, it seems the LIM and MIL are a no-go for now and I respect that because they've been very generous with other products
@@PassionforSound This may've been because they likely suspected that the MIL version wasn't long for this world. You should touch base with Schiit again as they're intending to release an updated MIL (MIL-B or MIM, not sure the name) using Texas Instruments revised DAC chip. The few that have heard the new MIL-B say that it's quite something. I'd love your take on both of these flavors, especially during the infancy of the MIL-B! :)
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll touch base with them.
I love the Bifrost 2 for the price! Also digging the t-shirt you've go quite the quirky collection.
Haha. Cheers, Ace 🙂
Great timing, great content, and great review. My Schiit yggy mil just arrived today. I’m just waiting on my soloist gt to arrived to listen to them. You inspired me to get this combo.
So glad I could help. Hope you love the results (and I think you will)
@@PassionforSound thanks for replying passion. I watched some of your cable reviews, I can’t decide to go with what cables to upgrade to. Any recommendations on usb, interconnects cables that suit the gt and yggy together? Also not too expensive, bang for value cables.
I think the best value for money cables I've tried so far are the various Supra cables. They make cables at various levels depending on your budget. I actually have a whole bunch here now to compare and review, but that video is a little while away
@@PassionforSound, Also, you might try Pangea Premier MKII with the following specs in the 1.5 Meter version for $69.00 US.
Tough woven nylon braided jacket (black/gray)
Signal Conductors: 23awg 6% Silver-plated Cardas Grade One Copper
Signal Conductor Insulation: Advanced form of PE polyethylene
Power Conductors: 20awg tinned copper
Shielding: Triple Shielded. Signal shielded from power, and overall double shield
I had Yggy OG and Holo Spring 3 KTE. Yggy has better punch, more forward sound, and Holo is smoother, better layering, depth, and less forward. So I kept Holo because it sounded better with speakers, specially because I upsample with HQPlayer which brings a bit sharper/faster sound to Holo. Both great DACs, could live with both easily.
I can imagine that distinction for speaker listening. Thanks so much for sharing!
@@susokraut3169 i did just that. Had both dacs connected to same laptop with Roon, playing same song, and just switching preamp input
@@susokraut3169 no i didn't know. I dont know which input on preamp is playing. But even without blind test, it would be easy to hear the difference on a decent transparent system
@@susokraut3169 lol that's not what transparent means. Whats your problem anyway? I know what i heard, and i know how to test equipment
@@susokraut3169 sure but it's my money so why are you so upset about it? You should go somewhere and rethink your life
Any chance of a Holo Audio Cyan 2 review? :)
Nothing on the horizon for now 😞
Great review, super informative!
I would love to hear Mike Moffat interviewed, it would be fascinating (thanks to Mr Spock).
Glad you liked it. Working on the interview timing now...
My Schiit LiM is crazy good. By far the best dac I have ever owned. Ticks all the boxes for my listening preferences. I am sure BF2 is also a viable alternative especially from a budget-conscious standpoint. Now my final task is to acquire a Mjolnir 3 amp to replace my GSX Mini amp...
That will be an insanely good stack! I hope you get it soon.
I hope this channel gets the opportunity to review the upcoming SA Bifrost 2/64 that has the Yggy LIM DAC chips. If the new DAC sounds as good as I think it will, I'll update the board and firmware in my BF2.
I've asked Schiit about the possibility and waiting to hear back... 🤞🤞
I love the videos man, but something is up with your audio, it sounds like your mic or the compressor on your voice is just too harsh. Something is a little too much.
Yes, I actually noticed that too at the start. Just on this video.
I'm actually using less compression these days than before. Not sure why this one would sound different as it's an identical set of parameters applied to every video
So having owned both bf2 and yggi og, i can say that the difference is absolutely massive.
Bf2 suffers from extremely poor layering and detail in general, the upper bass is almost boomy, which can hide the lower mids. If there are more then like, 3 instruments playing at the same time, regardless of where they are placed, everything just blends in to a muddy mess making it basically impossible to discern anything. The upper mids and treble also have some grain to them, which is really surprising considering its warmer and more ''layed back'' tonality.
Id honestly rather run a dongle then bf2, its easily the worst dac ive ever tried.
Yggi on the other hand, shares a similar warm tonality with the added punch to the sub and upper bass, tho it doesnt have any of the issues that bf2 has. The way the stage is presented feels very natural. Its wide, all the instruments/vocals feel like they are placed where they should be in a very convincing way, there is very little veiling if multiple instruments are placed behind one another. There is also no treble harshness, infact, i feel like yggi has the tendency to somehow keep the upper mid/treble energy well making it less fatiguing at the same time, very similarly to higher end tube amps. Yggi og is honestly very tube like in general.
For band music, yggi og is the best dac ive heard so far.
I'm surprised you find the BF2 so bad, but I do agree that the Yggy OG is a significant step up (as it should be for the large jump in price).
I've had my Yggy Analog 2 Unison for over two years and recently decided to compare it to a very hyped Denafrips Pontus II, so I bought one. I couldn't find anything in its sound signature that would make me put the Yggy up for sale, so the Pontus II went to another owner.
I was also thinking about the Chord TT2 but not sure if the difference in price will be justified by the level of possible acoustic enhancements. Moreover, I never liked the Chord design - IMO their devices look like dial-up modems from the early 2000s.
Lol. If you don't like the Chord design, that's totally fair. The TT2 is a significant step up, but as I said in this review, the Yggy reaches a level of performance where upgrading starts to feel less necessary.
That's very interesting and the Pontus II too. I'm hoping to try one myself this year
@@PassionforSoundDespite my dislikes about the visual aesthetics of the Chord design, I decided to compare the Hugo TT2 to Yggy and I bought one. Very soon, I'm going to hear that highly accoladed DAC/Amp with my own ears - the unit should arrive next week. I hope the Yggy wins, and I won't have to buy the M Scaler too LOL.
@@v8purrr92 hey mate i was wondering which one won haha thanks
The E30 is great, but if you listen to the E30 vs some higher end DACs you'll soon hear why it can be worth spending a little bit more
You need to listen to more gear.
A lot of long term Yggy owners say it needs to be turned on for a week plus to sound correct.
I discussed that in the video very briefly. I've found that to be not the case (subjectively) and it's also been measured objectively to show the same. That one is all placebo I'm afraid.
With the inventory shortage of AD DAC the YGGY with AD dac will be sought after even more. I’ll be holding onto mine.
They're also a great DAC so no reason to move on 🙂
Damn stupid not to have a front power switch on something this size. Should almost be illegal not to have a front power switch. Schiity idea.
Yeah, I understand their reasoning, but I would definitely prefer a front power switch too
I like that it’s a clean front on their products. How often are you turning off a dac anyways?
@@Ray-dl5mp I’m no tech guy, but I presume if it’s left fully powered it will die quicker. Most of these DACs have a bucket load of caps in them.
There are arguments that suggest leaving it on will prolong its life by not creating the initial surge of power at startup too often. I don't know which actually ends up being better though
Lovely review. I love my Yggy OG.
Too bad you weren't able to get to try LIM, based off of what I know about it I think it would actually be a more synergistic pairing with amps like the Ares and Soloist GT.
Mike/Jason mentioned in a live stream that more DACs are coming in 2022 (and they weren't just talking about ESS versions of Modi and Modius). I kind of hope LIM trickles down to Bifrost 2 (should be easy since it has user replaceable modules) and perhaps a Gungir 2 launch (perhaps it'll launch with the Urd since they're in the same chassis sizes).
Glad you liked the review. I certainly can't wait to see what Schiit have in store for 2022!
I’d like to see how they’re going to put out new DACs when they’re having supply chain issues with their current lineup. Gumby is now long in the tooth so would be nice to see an upgrade for it.
I agree about Gumby. Hopefully the supply chain issues start to settle as things in world return to normal (maybe?)
Hi Lachlan. I just received my Yggy + LIM. It is replacing my Bifrost 2/64, and I’ve got to say the difference between the two is striking. I have this paired with an Urd and listen to only (for the time being) strictly CDs. What an amazing combination. While I did enjoy the Bifrost 2, the main difference I noticed is the “size” of the soundstage. I listen to mainly speakers in a decent sized room. Soundstage seems larger in height which is interesting. Other comparisons are pretty much as you have stated. Depth seems to be about the same as the Bifrost, and love the details from the Yggy. All in all I am very happy I made the jump to the Yggy. Keep up the great work!
I'm so glad you're enjoying the Yggy so much! The BF2 is brilliant, but the Yggy is next level. Happy listening!
What do you recommend for a streamer? Price being somewhat not of a concern. I don’t want to slap a $300 wireless streamer in here but some $20k Aurender need not apply. Something equivalent to its $2800 price. Thanks! Looking for wireless streaming thru tidal
I don't yet have lots of streamer experience, but something like the Raspberry Pi setups with Volumio can sound great if you don't need a display. There are also some excellent options from Matrix Audio like the Mini-i 3 Pro. And finally, check out this roundup for more ideas: th-cam.com/video/8LvVEEpmuDg/w-d-xo.html
Multibit DACs are ladder DACs. They just use ladder DAC chips instead of ladder DAC circuits made from fully discrete resistors. That's not saying that the designs are exactly the same, but they're all variants of ladder DACs.
Yes, this is true
Looking forward to your conversation with Mike Moffatt
Working on finding a time now...
I did instant switch AB test of originally Iggy A2 with EBU input vs Dave+Mscaller. One important thing to note: before I got to instant AB switch I was super convinced that Dave was superior. When I did instant AB I found them surprisingly close and similar in sound qualities. I associated this first to Yggy being longer switched on (since then I keep it always on) but maybe it was just my brain. I need to note, my room wasn't fully treated at that time (but I got it measured and corrected partially via Minidsp SHD). I got also some non-orthodox components in my system (some top notch, some pro grade, good quality though regular PC as the source), so I can't say if there are bottle necks in my system, however I very satisfied with outcome vs some "proper" hi-end setups. Today I run Less is More version which I find clearly superior to OG (A2) and my room is well treated. I am actually curious how would Dave perform today. I had also TT2 here and somehow I can't imagine it could edge out Yggy
That's interesting. You mentioned in another post about the impact of the speakers, room, etc. on the listening experience. It's quite possible that the setup is influencing the end result and that's why it's so important that people choose what they enjoy and not what someone, somewhere says is "the best". For me, as a dedicated headphone listener (no speakers), the TT2 is clearly superior than Yggy OG in many ways, but there are many setups where I still prefer the Yggy's delivery of the music.
@Passion for Sound, you are right. I think we've had this discussion already. Headphones is a different experience, and probably even cheap, pro grade Beyerdynamic 990 will give you more details than full range speakers sitting 3.5 meters from your ears. You can hear the difference even vs close field monitors. Anyway I enjoy more full range experience as the whole body is one large sound sensor. Listening through ears only feels somewhat artificial, but I agree it can give more insights
Definitely! Both are quite a different experience
I use Gryphon Diablo 250 amplifier and Revel Performa F208 speakers and interconnection XLR Chord Tuned Aray and CD player as major music source.
What is the best choice for my setup?
OG or LIM?
Just answered you on your other question 🙂
Thanks for the video. It feels like schiit is competitive at the cost of size and to some extent basic template design. Then, 45W is a lot without amp. Mojo2, Hugo 2 are more compact, and also manage to consume very little power in comparison 1-3W, I believe because software based. Smaller bills helps relaxing when listening to music :) Furthermore, any device will get obsolete at some point, and we are stuck with the space it takes.
Schiit is probably not for the power conscious - that's true. As for it becoming obsolete, the new Yggy+ chassis will keep it upgradeable for many years to come - that's not something most DACs can offer
Your voice is soothing lol
You're a good reviewer
I'm glad you enjoy the reviews (and my voice) 🙂🙂
Love that shirt lol. Access to the playlist and notes sounds interesting, is that available to all patreon tiers? At some point I should probably create an account. It's hard to sort this all out on your own if you don't have the money to try out a lot of products. I'm looking for a particular musical experience for a particular reason, if that makes sense, and I'm having trouble figuring it out.
Yeah, that can be tough! I'm actually building (and rebuilding) a course to help with this exact challenge so hopefully I can get that out in 2023.
As for the Patreon benefits, they're all explained on the site, but basically, different tiers get different benefits with things like the playlists, early access to reviews and monthly Q&A calls. Unfortunately I can't recall which tiers get access to the playlists. I think it's the second tier up and above, but don't hold me to that... 🙂 Would love to see you join the clan.
Just saw Schiit's new LYR+,BIFROST 2/64 and VALI 2++ ,can't wait to see the reviews for these pile of Schiit
I've got the Bifrost 2/64 coming, but no word on the other two and I try to not ask for too much gear from any one manufacturer.
Finally. 😁
Yep. Sorry about the wait!
@@PassionforSound it's alright. I won't be buying it anyways. Loved the review though. ☺
Please do a review of the Schiit Audio Mjolnir 3 amp?
It's on the way (as in, the amp is being produced and coming soon). It's all thanks to a channel patron who has been kind enough to have his sent to me first before it goes to him.
Hi there, do you know how these two compare to the RME ADI 2 DAC FS?
I haven't ever compared them side-by-side, but I prefer the sound of the Qutest to the ADI-2 and I preferred the Qutest by a small margin over the lower level Schiit Gungnir Multibit (an old one with the original analog stage). So, I am guessing the Yggy OG will be comfortably better (to me) than the ADI-2. Not sure about Pontus II, but would likely prefer it I think.
The ADI-2 has quite an etched / sharp sound to it that I don't necessarily like so while it's a good DAC and offers incredibly powerful features (EQ, crossfeed, etc.) I don't consider it a preference for me in most comparisons
Good gracious ive never seen those side by side. It really is the size of a world tree
Seriously... the Yggdrasil looks like the Bifrost 2 after many steroid hormone drug injections
@@JTB-- yeah really i could glue 4 legs to it use it as my computer table. Save space that way.
Lol. The new Schiit Yggy Desk. They'll be the new IKEA!
How would you compare the micro detail on the OG compared to the Bifrost 2? I’ve heard the OG is more detailed compare to the LiM since it uses less bits (16 bit vs 20 bit) but the LiM has a blacker background so instrument separation is better.
I definitely found the OG to have better micro details than the Bifrost 2. It's not a huge leap, but it's there
I am curious how this compares to my gumby multibit. I am planing to upgrade but i'm still analysing the options. compared to deslta sigma dacs I like multibit a lot more as they are wormer.
I owned a Gumby MB before I upgraded to the Chord Qutest. The Yggy is significantly better than what the Qutest was so it will be a big step up on the Gumby too. Better soundstage and more resolution across the board, but still a nice, warm tonality.
Thank you
I'm voting for yes! You muatbinterview mike mofit ! He is a legend in the digital/dac world! And to top it off his interviews are always some of the most entertaining you will ever see in this industry! Not many like Jason and Mike of schiit audio! Thanks!
It's being arranged. Not sure when yet, but it will happen...
Nice review as usual sir. I would like to see Schiit coming up with a flagship dedicated headphone amp (not an integrated) to pair with the Yggy.
That would be very cool, wouldn't it!?
Interviews of Mike Moffat are the best content on audiophile youtube. If you can get him on that would be awesome.
It's currently being scheduled. Stay tuned 😉
Just received my Element III! Interesting differences, some flaws in the build unfortunately. Looking forward to your opinion on it.
I'll see what I can do 🙂
I lived through the era, and even though it went by as fast as lightning, everyone really was kung fu fighting …
So it's true? 🤯😉
Comparisons are great. very good way to review a product. very insightful 👏
Glad it was helpful!
Reviews without comparisons in audio are basically useless in my opinion
I agree 🙂
Just the review I've been waiting for!
My BF2 has been awesome but have been considering jumping up to a Yiggy. I was thinking I'd be willing to pay the extra for the OG over the LIM solely for the fact that those are shipping out in only a couple of days vs 6-8 weeks for the LIM, but that blackground described for the LIM has me considering it now. I had a buddy over last night to hear my system and he was impressed with the BF2, and he has a Holo Spring 2 KTE.
I wish I could have also tried the LIM. Hope you enjoy whichever you choose
@@PassionforSound If I follow through with this I'll let you know what I think.
That would be great!
@@PassionforSound Well, I made a purchase, but not a new DAC!
I got a great deal on a pair of Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Mono block amps to replace a AVA SET 120 amp.
Thanks for doing these great reviews!
Awesome! Enjoy your new toys 😁
Glad you like the reviews
I had the Bifrost 2 for a short while. While it had a natural color, it couldn't keep up with orchestral music. Slow transients, muddled soundstage, weak dynamic swings are how I would describe the presentation. (System: Lake People G111 headphone amp, Beyerdynamic DT1990 pro and DT 880 600 ohm, Drop HD58x Jubilee)
I replaced it with the Topping D70s which uses dual AKM chips and have been very satisfied.
Thanks for providing this alternate viewpoint from the usual. I’m looking a DAC for classical/orchestral and had that exact question about the Bifrost 2. Sounds like a great DAC but like you I need something closer to the Topping.
I don't mean for a second to question anyone's preferences, but it's worth noting that the presentation of Schiit Multibit DACs is quite different from delta sigma chip-based DACs (AKM, ESS, etc.). The DS chip DACs will flatten the soundstage and push everything forward which creates a perception of extra detail and clarity. That can absolutely be preferable for some people and some setups. I personally prefer the depth and 3-dimensionality of the Multibit approach, but it's all personal preference - neither is right or wrong.
@@PassionforSound I currently own the Singxer SDA-6 Pro and the Gustard A18 DACs. They are both based on the AK4499 chip but the Singxer sound much smoother, more musical and less in your face and bigger sounstage over to the Gustard while retaining all the details. I would be curious to hear how the SDA-6 would stack up against the Biftost2, latest Gumby and Yggy Lim.
Being an AK-based DAC, the one thing I know instantly is that it will have a flatter soundstage with minimal depth or 3-dimensionality. Beyond that, I can't say.
@@PassionforSound The overall implementation of the chipset plays an important role in the sound quality and presentation, the high quality components in the SDA-6 DAC makes it very musical and soundstage depth is excellent compared to the flatter soundstage and dryer sound of the Gustard A18 despite both having the AK4499 chipset. The Singxer SDA-6 is really worth trying ! Hopefully one day you could get one to review, cheers !
The Yggy has a discreet analog output so I think that is way better
Yes - it definitely does pay off
I wanted to go for the spring three but then I remembered that your spot on with your reviews. But did you try over sampling with spring from your PC or streamer?
ps: I got me the Excalibur USB cable after your review and its like I have a new dac. Wtf??
So cool about your Excalibur experience!
I didn't upsample for the Spring so it might improve it a little, but I wouldn't expect it to match the Yggy still.
@@PassionforSound Wow I didn’t expect that. I mean the details should be better and realism too.
Anyho it seems that the stretch to the Hugo TT 2 is the best choice. I’m so going for it.
Yeah, upsampling won't dramatically change a DAC no matter what anyone tells you. It can absolutely improve it, but there's only so much that upsampling can do.
The TT2 with an upsampled signal will absolutely be a better choice IMO. Hope you love it!
So, it seems that the more money you put into Dac, the more refined sound quality you will be getting. There are almost no exception to that statement based on what I have heard from respecful/reliable reviewers like you. So that brings to my question, how would the Yggdrasil (OG) compared with Denafrips Pontus II if you happen to have chance to review it? Both are in the similar price point that I regard as the "sweet point" for the Dac.
That's a good way to look at it - more refinement, greater sense of space (in Schiit and Chord DACs at least), and often slightly better detail retrieval
@@PassionforSound Oo, I almost made up my mind going with chi-fi Pontus II but now it seems USA fights back... threshold is getting higher
Yeah, it's a tough one. I need to try the Pontus II
Why does no one ever review the dacs made by Benchmark?
In my case it's just that I don't have a contact to get them from. I'd be very glad to review them though.
I laughed hard when you said Massive Yggy
Somehow it sounded funny
Yes, I have a massive Yggy 😂
@@PassionforSound Now your just showing off hehe
Thank you for this review, It would be interesting if you could also review the difference between the Asgard and The Lyr, which are the main differences besides power.
I'll see if I can get a Lyr. I'm certainly interested in it personally
@@PassionforSound I'm looking foward to watch the video. Thanks.
Interesting... More bass from TT2! :o
Yeah, surprised me too!
Is there anything to look for in a review like this for someone who is only a 2ch listener. Vast majority of dac reviews seem to be based around headphones. Is it a bad idea to get info from dac reviews based on headphone listening...Is there something to look for that may help someone who only listen to speakers?
Generally speaking, things like overall tonality and staging characteristics are consistent, regardless of the rest of the chain and it's why I always try to contextualise with some comparisons.
The challenge with taking headphone impressions to convert to speaker-based systems is that the room and interactions between the L/R channels can alter the sound so it's about understanding how your speakers currently perform, the general sound of the other parts of your chain, especially amp, and then trying to match the DAC characteristics to your needs (i.e. do you need something brighter, more aggressive, smoother, more spacious, etc.
It's a tough connection to make sometimes, but if you check out a few different reviews and make a list of what you want more/less of from your next DAC, it should start to come together.
@@PassionforSound Understood. I've started looking at reviews where the reviewer primary listening are with headphones as a much more accurate way to to find out what a DACs sound signature is like...then I try and apply that to how it would fit in with what I have going on in my room. Can't be sure if I'm implementing my strategy correctly but I have to start somewhere. Thank you for the reply. Cheers
My pleasure and I think you're on the right track
Bifrost 2 has an update, Bifrost 2/64! Looking forward to the day you will get your hands on one to give a listen!!
I've got one here now and have written up full notes for my review including comparisons with the original BF2 and the Yggy OG too
@@PassionforSound YES!
@@PassionforSound heck yes!!!
Yes, surely not everyone!
Yes. Talk with Mr. Moffat please
I'd love to, but Mike's been battling health issues for a while. Hopefully he's doing ok. I haven't checked in lately.
I'm a happy boy
I'm glad to hear that 🙂
this is great content
So glad you like it!
Does anyone knows the difference between the Bifrost 2 & the bifrost multibit? I have the original Bifrost multibit and don't know if I'm missing out on anything.
The Bifrost 2 is the more recent DAC - both Multibit designs. As I understand it, the B2 is a significant upgrade, but I haven't tried the original.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for your response! I will have to research it more :)
@@Thoughtflux schiit sells a modular upgrade chip for your bifrost, one that upgrades/updates the unison usb port stuff, it's $150
@@waldos.429 I'm using a re-clocler and input via coaxial. I wanted to upgrade my dac chip board.
why is there an X8 light if it maxes out @ 192 (x4)? @PassionforSound
Great question! I'm not sure and couldn't find an answer on the Schiit website. My guess is it's a future proofing measure, but that's 100% speculation.
At least im not alone in my confusion lol @@PassionforSound
One more question if I may- you are a great person to ask this- I just bought a used Yggy A1 with Gen 5 USB. My PC has a good motherboard and I run a Supra Excalibur USB. Am I missing out on anything with Gen5 over Unison do you think? And if so is there a plug-in 'decrapifier' or galavantic isolation device that would make up for it or should i just install a Unison? Or naw? Thanks, Bro.@@PassionforSound
Another great question. It's probably worth emailing Schiit about it because they're not going to BS you. In the meantime, you could just grab the Topping HS02 which will isolate any noise, but it doesn't alter the sound quality in any way IME. I discussed it here: th-cam.com/video/pcDB_wc_llc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eOBw-h1DSrzBamca
thanks!@@PassionforSound
can you do a video on power conditioners? thanks
It's in the works, but it's going to take me a while - so many variables!
Frya plus,2 agers, bitfrost 2,2 micro 1000 subs,buchart s400m2 silver wire fuana..man this sounds great I have much more expensive set ups but is is awesome 😮 out went the denifrips,,,,,,,in came bit frost.... next I getting the big boy...yigggy
Nice! You'll love the Yggy in that setup I think
I beg to differ that converting DSD to PCM is downsampling. Also, it is east to convert DSD to 24/176.4 rather than 24/192. The math works better.
I'm talking purely about the maths of going from very high sample rates to low sample rates and the reference to 192 is simply referring to the maximum of the Yggy, not a recommendation of which sample rate to use. You're right that it's better to stick with a clean multiple of the starting frequency when resampling - I wasn't talking specifics here though
next is the middle kid.. Gumby
I'll have to see what I can arrange, but I wonder if we're due for a new Gumby in 2022. It seems due... (I have no inside knowledge on this - it's pure speculation)
I have a Modius, I haven't broken into the higher end audio gear yet but I'm pretty happy with the Modius as a first budget DAC pick.
It's a great DAC - enjoy!
Or you could listen to the gear and hear for yourself if it's better. There are lots of things that measurements can't tell you
Modius is a phenomenon DAC! Sounds great
@@PassionforSound I’m gonna wait for the new Geshelli Labs DAC to release. That will be my next purchase.
You mean the one with the new AKM chip (4499 I think)? That should be great!
According to Mike Moffat - you wont hear differences properly with cans; only with loudspeakers.
I don't completely agree with Mike on that one. My experiences with headphones are that they reveal different things than speakers so there'll be things you notice with headphones that you don't notice with speakers and vice versa
Please review the Sonoma acoustic Bravura headphone system 🙏
You will love it 🙂
I'll see if I can get my hands on one...
Man, it sounds like PC is your bottleneck. Thanks for the review!
What makes you think that?
Fantastic new intro!
Glad you like it!
Good review
Thank you 🙂
Yup, interview please.
DAC’s should not be that big, come on
Yeah, it is pretty cumbersome, but for a speaker setup it's just going to sit in a cabinet or rack. For a desktop headphone setup, it is a little bit more challenging for sure
RCA out on the Yggy is basically useless so Bifrost 2 wins for sounding comparable and being more functional.
I strongly disagree with that. I was using the RCA out of the Yggy to my Mainline amp yesterday and the sound was sublime
@@PassionforSound Haha that's because the mainline is one of the most polite sounding and fantastic amps I've ever used as well.
It's definitely a great amp, but the Yggy RCA is also fine. I'm wondering if your interconnects were somehow causing you to hear something different
@@PassionforSound I’ve had the AQ Earth and Sky interconnects. The Earth is XLR and the Sky’s are RCA and I expected the Sky to sound better but the Earths did. I think it’s because they share the same circuit and it’s summed on the OG. It was a noticeable enough change to me. Apparently the LiM and MiL work differently in this regard where the SE sounds just as good. I think the SBAF forum goes into more detail about it.
You might want to mention that you use Spring 3 without any upsampling which is limiting the DAC by a LOT. With proper upsampling with HQPlayer or even Roon, Spring 3 blows Yggy out of the water in pretty much every regard.
I've never heard a DAC transform that significantly with upsampling. Even if it can, that is no help to people running sources that can't be upsampled (CD transport, streamer, etc.). At the same time, people who are using HQ Player could then enjoy the same benefits into other DACs so the performance of all DACs increases too so the benefits aren't really relevant anymore.
@@PassionforSound Yggy is upsacled by defintion. You are comparing upscaled perfomance with pure NOS. You can apply hqplayer upscaling to things like Tambaqui and get perfomance of 30-40k dacs for a reason. Some people prefer native NOS perfomance, you seem to to like upscaled, no reason not to use Spring this way and enjoy much better perfomance than you could ever get from Yggy.
Spring has internal oversampling which I tested in this video. I'm not saying people shouldn't use HQ Player - I'm saying it's an additional layer that isn't to everyone's tastes or capabilities to use.
@@PassionforSound Spring internal oversampling is ignored by most users to my knowing. People that dont like NOS and are getting this DAC will go for hqplayer. There was a recent discussion on golden sounds discord on your review, with many people wondering why you deliberatly been repeating that its overhyped while the DAC objectivly outperforms Yggy when proper oversampling is applied by and has NOS for those who prefer it (and those are many). In the end its all subjective taste, but there is a strong opinion outthere that you didnt do this thing justice :-)
That's like saying that a car hasn't been reviewed properly because they didn't strap a turbo onto the engine when discussing acceleration. I have no issues with people using HQ Player and enjoying it. The point is that if you are not using a PC as source then HQ Player isn't an option so I review each DAC with this in mind. How it will perform in a setup that anyone can recreate. It's also why I don't review products with non-standard power supplies or other tweaks. If someone is interested in using HQ Player then I'm sure they'll search for the info they need to find the best DAC for that setup and it's not my review. Likewise, if someone is looking for the best DAC to pair with their streamer or CD transport then my review is more helpful than any review using HQ Player. Different strokes for different folks
I can't remember if you have had the chance to play with the Topping d70s yet. If you do please do, I would love to hear your thoughts.
I haven't as yet. I'll see if I can get my hands on one though as many people ask about it
Chord is special. I was at RMAF a few years ago, and for some unfathomable reason, Moon Audio's table was often nearly or entirely abandoned (except for their rep) despite having, arguably, the best setup at the canjam. I got to listen to their Dave for quite a while (mostly with Utopias and HE-1000... SEs or v2s, I actually don't remember which), and it was like being forcibly ejected into another dimension. I've never heard anything like it since. Although I listened to a lot of high-end headphone gear that weekend, that Dave seared itself into my brain in a way that's made me forget most of the other stuff I listened to. It's absolutely other-worldly. If I ever live one of those stories where a hiker finds a huge chunk of gold in a mountain stream, I'm going straight to the nearest Chord dealer, banging that russet potato-sized nugget down on the counter, and bellowing, "Take me to your Daves!" (but in a genial, respectful way)
I totally agree. Love the story and your gold nugget fantasy!
@@susokraut3169 Please go back to ASR and stop trolling here.
Suso, if you continue to be rude to viewers, I'll block you from the channel. You have a right to your opinions, but it is not acceptable to call other commenters names. Cablebrain asked politely that you return to a forum where you don't feel the need to abuse people and doesn't deserve any name calling.
Thank you so much for this review! I have had a Bifrost 2, and it is a DAC that I like a lot. However, I am now using a Denafrips Ares II; as in my speaker system, the soundstage, instrument separation and textures are better on the Ares II.
So, if you are able to review the Denafrips Pontus II, which is about $1825US that would be wonderful. And even possibly the Venus II at about $3000US, but that is more money than I would likely want to spend.
I am keen to try those too, Neil. I also have a nice pair of active speakers now that I can use to test performance of select DACs with speakers
I was fortunate enough to acquire some old Theta DAC's from around Australia for really cheap money....I know Mike use to work for Theta and I would love to one day hear a comparison between the Yggy and my Progency and Prime. Even my little Theta, the Cobalt 307 sounds extremely good to my ears. All DAC's are a keeper. This video was a great watch and perhaps a return to form for your channel!
I'm sorry to hear you feel like I fell out of form. Appreciate your story about the Thetas though. It would definitely be interesting to see how far Mike's designs and the technology available have progressed over the years
Holy shit the Yggy is huge, didn't notice how big it was until seeing it stacked below a BF2 with you next to it.
Yeah, it's a beast! Thankfully I have a shelf constructed underneath my desk which it JUST fits on. 😁
I have both the OG and the LIM and wrote up a formal review. I prefer the LIM . A friend has the Bifrost 2 and then got the OG. He prefers the OG over the Bifrost . Different strokes for different folks. Great to have so many choices.
I agree that it's great to have choices. I'd love to hear a LIM version at some point.
@@PassionforSound I hope you get to. I have enjoyed my OG for many years. In my room, speakers only, once I put the LIM in the system, it just sounded right. My review is linked on the Schiit site. Keep up the good work.
I'll check it out - thanks!
🤔Why is there only 1 digital input per type (ie, optical, coaxial, etc.)
for such an expensive unit ??
That's actually not uncommon and this has as many inputs (or more) than similar level devices
@@PassionforSound
I know! What I’m saying
is that it’s just not necessarily a good thing for the user. I get tired
of hearing about manufacturer’s serving their customers, when it’s an excessive amount of lip service in more cases than should be.
It's a tricky one. If they removed the AES to make space for say another optical, they'd be in trouble with people that wanted AES. It seems they made the decision to maximise the options (AES, BNC, RCA SPDIF, Toslink, USB) rather than multiples of any one format.
@@PassionforSound Is it so difficult to design in two inputs of each format on the pricier models? What am I missing here technically?
It's just about space. Each input needs space on the circuit board and also the input selection processor and interface.
Another absolutely brilliant review! Wow.
So glad you enjoyed it