@FlakBoxing Nash definitely deserved his first mvp. led a 29 win suns team to 62 wins. people always forget that, they only look at the stats and see that Nash only averaged like 18 points without looking at anything else, he completely transformed that team and was the most valuable player in the nba. 2006, I think dirk and Kobe deserved over him.
People remember the Nash years so wrong. In 2005 he tripled their previous wins output and in 2006 the team didn’t miss a beat despite amare missing 50+ games (off the top of my head so I could be wrong on the number). Amazing how we misremember that entire stretch and want to award 40 win teams
In Canada, they actually have a community fundraisering event called Kraft Hockeyville in where they renovate a voted on community rink and the NHL play an exhibition game there. Maybe that's what the NBA can do with the court idea.
Sounds like it would be an event completely separate from all star weekend tho. Like genuinely you only need 10-12 nba players and they don’t have to be all stars
I'm tired of the Steve Nash disrespect. What he did in 05 is like if Dame randomly decided to join the Magic next year and all of a sudden they get 60 wins
@@SnuggieMaple They have a 29-31 record when Markelle played, could easily end the season above .500 if he didn't miss the beginning of the season. In the 11 games where both Jonathan Isaac and Markelle played, they were 8-3. It wasn't just weak comp either, they beat Boston, Phillie, Minnesota and Denver in those 11 games, so half of their wins came against playoff teams, 3/8 against contenders. Just for a little more context, the Magic were 5-17 in games where Markelle didn't play.
It’s funny that the first dude didn’t add Shawn Kemp to Michael Jordan’s list because Shawn Kemp is not a hall of famer yet but he’ll add dudes that aren’t even hall of famers yet to Lebron James’ list.
@@darrellwilliams9168 missed the point entirely. It just takes time with some guys for whatever reason, Ben Wallace just had a higher demand to be put in than Shawn Kemp.
The funny thing is I never heard anyone ever doubt Derrick Rose’s mvp until this year. That’s why this Years mvp race was the most annoying ever- Derrick rose just catching some strays for no reason
That's really not true at all. It's been talked about plenty of times over the years. LeBron definitely should have won it that year. The main issues were that people were vastly overrating the Heat's roster because of LeBron, Wade, & Bosh; completely overlooking the fact that the rest of the roster in 2011 was pretty trash. Secondly, those awards are voted on by the media and LeBron was a villain to everyone at that time because of 'The Decision'. Which, while a stupid move that even he regrets, doesn't change what happens on the court. It also doesn't change the fact that too much of the awards are narrative driven and giving it to the league's new villain when there was some sort of out wasn't likely to happen.
@@randumo24 how can you say lebron "Definitely" should have won if ultimately he underperformed to expectations (that he set himself, mind you). The only argument is stat based, and that's not enough to counter the fact that D Rose had similar production, and a better record (Best in the league) with objectively less help. AND he made the conference finals, further validating his ability to lead towards success. And then to downplay the firepower of Miami. It's not overrating the roster, it was PRECISELY rated, as evidenced by their trip to the finals. Because 3 all star/all NBA talents and decent 3&D rotational players is alot to handle. The only reason the heat lost in the finals was because of Lebron's meltdown, not a roster issue. Don't rewrite the narrative. You can say other years where lebron should have won, but 2011 was Rose's year and it's indisputable
@@randumo24 Miami and the bulls had about the same number of wins that season but the perception was that lebron was in a super team so most of the success from the team came from that big 3 and not solely lebron. But the Bulls’ success came solely from Rose bcuz they didn’t have a big 3 or even a superstar like Lebron. Dwayne wade was an all star and all nba that season and Bosh was also an all star averaging 19ppg on 50%fg. They also made the finals, so I don’t think they were as trash as you think. Wade and Bosh def had a big contribution to that team
@@truthtella3371 he averaged nearly 20ppg on 50% shooting and 57%TS. His offense declined bcuz he was playing alongside lebron and Wade but cmon, he was def producing
15 points and 10+ assists. put any of the top 50 oat on this team and it’s gonna win 70+. nash didn’t control the other players. they did their job. kobe averaged 35. even bron could’ve got the mvp at that point. with bron it would’ve been a record breaking team.
I kinda understand why people don’t think rose should’ve won, but his career was ruined due to injury and he would’ve been great for years to come, so at least he’s got one for people to remember
@@nxslxttzye9751 I know that but saying they’ll be HOFers to give Bron better competition and not saying a guy like Shawn Kemp who technically isn’t in but deserves to be in is crazy
@@TheIcemanthomas Oh really? I suppose thats fair then I guess I am wrong about that, not that it really matters to me, seeing as I think the whole goat debate is an unwinnable one anyway, its too subjective what people value. Also I didnt watch MJ play during his own time so who am I to judge, I only have the modern nba and euroleague (I am born in 2000 and from norway) to base my basketball perspective from, so cant really judge how good a player from the 90s was in his own time.
When is baseball analytics finna translate to the NBA cuz in baseball everyone has something to bring to the table and can adequately justify their impact. But nba argument just feel like “HE GOT THE DOG IN HIM” or “BUT THE HESY TWEEN!!!!”. Just feels like putting others down to prop another up
Oh 100%, like with Shawn Kemp. Then the conversation we'd have around the already HoFers he faced like Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, Clyde, etc. would be massively different if they managed to win. Stockton's already a top 5/top 10 PG all time, imagine throwing in 2 rings on top of being the all time leader in assists and steals.
I think that D rose won the MVP purely *because* of the context, because nobody wanted to vote for LeBron after The Decision and him joining up with 2 more stars
@@_CRUMP_ Lebron had two other All NBA teammates that season. Derrick lead a team with no other all stars to the number one seed in the nba. Obviously Lebron should win a lot of games he was on a super team.
I'm so tired of everyone that says lebron deserves the MVP over DRose, because that year the bulls were the number one seed, with DRose as the primary scorer, and without him the bulls would've never been that good much less be the #1 seed in the same east as a prime Lebron and Dwade and Bosh. Drose was the more valuable to his team than lebron was to his, not by much but he was get over it.
@@sonikmajor exactly but all they always want to talk about is how lebron's stats were better than DRose, (slightly better) mind you. That's the problem with the MVP voting now, it's much less about how valuable a player is to their team and more about who has better stats than who.
@@RatedGr8if you’re on the 2 seed team with more points assists rebounds better efficiency and better defense than the dude on the 1st seed you should get the mvp it’s that simple
MVP means Most Valuable Player to your team. D-rose didnt have 2 all-stars runnin with him. And Rose literally destroyed his body to win that MVP…driving to the hoop all the time. Never the same since…
I agree w/ SAS. They load manage him, then when he does play they don't know sometimes until the day of forcing last min changes to gameplans & rotations. Messing up chemistry. All that to HOPE he can make it through a playoff run. They would have a way clearer plan w/o having to worry about all of that
The Shaq>Ai argument was based more on a efficiency than defense. Not that I agree that Harden shouldve won but he did have one of the best offensive seasons of all time so its not rly the same situation
@@Threezus-zc4jzso we uplift jokic and give him mvp for getting a decent record without competent help and yet AI who had a worse team and got a better record doesn't deserve it gtho
@@nan32_26 yeah. I saw it. Problem? Bro, Dirk deserved to get the MVP over Nash that 2005 season, but hey, Nash can have the 2006 MVP. D Rose deserved that MVP, AI deserved his MVP, and Giannis deserved his first MVP. I think the 2023 MVP is fraudulent and was given out of "pity."
@@harposhi I agree that Embiid didnt deserve it, but that's not what I was talking about? I was saying the vid came out and LITERALLY 1 min later you legitimately couldnt have watched it yet
@@nan32_26 ok chill, Embiid did deserve MVP. He checked off all the parameters for qualifying his case. However, imo, Jokic should have won it. Because he also deserved it. Most times, the top 3 MVP candidates are there deservedly so. That's the reality of it And don't go mentioning the playoffs, I saw it too, and yes it was pitiful and inexcusable. But ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a regular season award.
I was confused with the first one because a big chunk of the players he named are not current HOF because they’re still active but he didn’t do the same for Shawn kemp.
Tbf a lot of them are obvious first ballot HoFers, but then there's also, like, Draymond and Jimmy. We can say they'll probably make it, or they should, but you can't say that they're gonna be first ballot like you can with a 2 time MVP
A lot of what he said was completely biased tbh but there’s still a point to be made. Like yes what he said is true but bro was reaching when he added players like 2012 James Harden and an old Jason Kidd and bro acted like they were in their primes. He has a good point just needed a better way to go about it
I feel lebron had harder finals matches because all the competition his whole career has been in the WCF besides Boston and The Magic’s for like a year or 2 besides that he had the pg pacers and demar and lowry raptors as his only roadblocks to the finals for like 8 straight seasons oh and the Jeff Teague hawks 😂 Kobe Kobe faced more hofs in the wc to get to the finals than lebron ever had to to get to the finals
@@m.j.w.2876 going off regular season wish is misleading. The Bulls were a harder team to face for the Cavs than the Hawks were but the Hawks won 60 games and the Bulls won 50. Outside of the Butler Heat every team Bron played in the finals had atleast 3 HOF on it. Jordan had harder comp going to the finals but Bron had the tougher comp in the finals
@@darrellwilliams9168 yeah but basing it off just facing a hall of famer is way more misleading. Wow, LeBron had to face an old Tim Duncan, old Manu, Old Tony Parker, and a young Kawhi who openly considered himself a roleplayer at the time, Jason Kidd was 2 years off from retiring when LeBron faced him, James Harden was a roleplayer off the bench, etc. Whereas guys like Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Charles, etc., were all in their prime. Facing off against a 38 or 22 y/o HoFer is way different than a 27-33 y/o HoFer.
I like the HOF argument how he didn't count people who weren't HOF yet for Jordan but then turned around and counted everyone he thinks is going to be HOF for lerbron
@abdoulaye9543 I'm not say it won't happen. I agree they will most likely make it. Curry and Durant will make it, but you could say the same thing about the people jordan went against they still have a chance to make the HOF but in the long run LeBron has had harder finals but easier paths to the finals.
@@justsomedudewithnoneck8329 the amount of times he says some bs like " I was just about to say that" implies he has no opinions of his own and just piggy backs of the takes of others lmao
wanna know why lebron faced a ton of hall of famers in the finals? because the west was the better conference, that era in the east was THE weakest era of the eastern conference in NBA history
Day 1 of begging for some volume level adjustments. I can't listen to yall in my car because Solz is blasting through my speakers cracking my windows and Sage is whispering.
Sage brings up a good point I’m gonna keep using for everything. Gotta compare the same exact seasons when doing the “if this player had this guys career he’d win x amount” can’t just drop in a peak player in any situation lmao
So it’s Lebrons Fault that Lebron had to play against the Warriors who played 5 straight finals so that takes away other HOFers who could have made the Finals
Nah. Lbj had wade and bosh majority of the season and still ended up behind drose’s bulls. Bulls had the best record in the nba that year with noah and boozer in and out of the line up.
I think people misunderstand the MVP. I get that it is named the most valuable player, but it is used to make new superstars as well. If the league wants to push someone, then MVP is given.
I disagree they mistake it for the best player in the league award. In which case 1 guy would win it for years in a row. The tiktok forgot to mention that D Rose had a better record than Lebron in the same conference while Lebron was playing with 2 HoFs in their prime and D Roses team was injury riddled that season.
@NBA YOUNGBOY agreed as well, but also in that season D Rose was slated to become the new face of the league. He was arguably more popular than LeBron that year
Popularity is viewed in many ways. Jersey sells is one way, but seeing how me and my friends and family don't buy Jerseys period,I don't care about them. I do know even if he didn't sell more then, he was definitely projected to be that guy and was given the MVP to bolster his notoriety. He also was given the distinction of being the youngest for that reason. Similarly to catapult Steph they gave him unanimous MVP which did wonders for his legacy.
@@hypie88 stop it rose was absolutely that popular, lebron was still a villain and everyone that hated lebron got behind rose as he was the one player that everyone feared as much as lebron and had the best chance at bringing lebron down
I vividly remember Steve Nash’s MVP season in 2005, and he definitely deserved it. I wasn’t even paying attention to stats back then, but I was watching him play and he was killing teams left and right. He was pissing me off because my team could never seem to beat him. The Suns became the best team in the league out of nowhere once he joined. So I was not in the least bit surprised when he was named MVP lol
I don't know about the MVPs though. The reason I value MVP shares more than MVPs is because there is no strict criteria. 2017 Westbrook opens a whole can of worms. I like that Westbrook has an MVP, but in going Westbrook over Harden, you probably should have given Harden the MVP in 2019 and Curry in 2021. And if you give Giannis the MVP in 2019 as best player on best team, then why doesn't he get it again this year? MVP shares still have a lot of narrative issues, but the best players get rewarded through their consistency, so Kobe and Shaq each have 4 mvps instead of 1.
There are high school gyms with 7k capacities and a couple with 8k. All in Indiana. Players could travel throughout the week and fans who areclosest to their respective gym can watch.
The immediate commentary on the third video was "bruv pip pip". Imagine if someone made a video featuring solz&sage and just started doing asian and black stereotypes lol
Scoot Henderson is the better pick than Wemby. Wemby can be a bust due to his size and him being skinny. Also, he is a Center that is lanky which can cause some problems when he gets backed up from dudes like Embiid. Unless he transforms into a forward, I see Scoot as the better pick.
Shaq>AI while I don't hate the argument, saying it's about efficiency or defense is ridiculous. AI is an underrated defender and was considered a 2 way player at the time, he's just undersized. He's still better than league average. AI also took all the shots for his team and solo carried them to the finals and took a game off of the Lakers, he cemented his MVP status. Also Shaq isn't the greatest defender, a lot of his deficiencies were covered by his size and agility.
Want players to try do the mlb, all star game decides finals home court advantage, oh wait east would cry unfair and have to admit they are completely out talented by the west.....
I think I'd point out in that lebron, Jordan debate is that jordan had to go through the pacers, magic, pistons, and Knicks in the east to reach the finals. Lebron had to go through the derozan raptors and 1 year of the pg pacers. I don't think Bron goes to 8 straight finals if the east wasn't total dog shit
@Vergil true but he never had a great team in those years. From 2010 to 2018 he had elite talent around him but with no competition. That pacers team took him to 7, other than that, the east was a cake walk every year. But we don't talk much about 80s jordan either. We're talking the years each dominated the league and who they had to go through. Jordan actually had to beat some teams in the east
the first one involving hof competition is dumb cause Lebron lost to a lot of those half famers in the finals so I feel like its not as strong as people think it is. Yeah he played more but he also lost to them
The MVP is not about who has the better stats around the league, it's about who makes the biggest difference for his team's success coz one might have 30,10,12 but has like 2 or 3 all-star team mates while the other has 26,7,9 but has no help , I believe the second one is the MVP
isn’t James harden1x, Steph4x, kahwi2x, kd3x, Jimmy butler, and klay4x, bc they aren’t hof yet so that would be less for lbj , kinda like with Shawn kemp, 17=17
IF Portland Phoenix Seattle and Utah win those finals against Jordan wouldn't MORE guys of those teams be HOFers and THEN the narrative would be "look at how many HOFers Jordan faced" but since Jordan BEAT THEM people say "well he beat nobody" see how IMPORTANT the gap is between winning and losing in the finals 🤷🏾♂️
@@ryanlucca5324 That's not the question........ Would they be HOFers with zero rings? You avoiding answering the question let's me know your answer 🤷🏾♂️
i wouldnt go that far, but i will say that ai is slightly overrated in terms of his actual play... impact wise, yes he brought a lot of new culture into the nba, but he was an incredibly inefficient player, even for his size, and wasnt as great as people remember him to be
for 2008 id say they got it right giving it to kobe especially when you factor in that they didnt get pau on that team till the trade deadline so he didnt even have a legit second star till there were 25 games left in the season but if it were to go to anybody else then it should have gone to cp3
We could have a Solz vs Sage NBA Finals
I would love it
The toxicity would be INSANE
@@CaptainBuggyDClown I would hate it
Poor Solz he would have to see his Celtics get cooked two years in a row
As a nuggets fan, I pray hope we don’t💀
Trying to say Steve Nash wasn't important to those Phoenix teams is real nasty work.
Yeah, but he's right he shouldn't have won the mvps
@FlakBoxing Nash definitely deserved his first mvp. led a 29 win suns team to 62 wins. people always forget that, they only look at the stats and see that Nash only averaged like 18 points without looking at anything else, he completely transformed that team and was the most valuable player in the nba. 2006, I think dirk and Kobe deserved over him.
@FlakBoxing nah he deserved it. the second one was bullshit. just like emfraud's MVP this year.
@@Rgb3rgb2how was the second bs he lead them to 54 wins without amare? Lmao
For the first one the guy forgot that Toni Kokoc is also a HOF'er that Jordan won 3 titles with.
12-17
Toni is a Hall of Famer?
Edit: Didn't actually know Toni was a Hall of Famer, that's on me.
The fact he forgot Toni is crazy glad someone caught thay
And plus and plus Jordan played joe zeke and Rodman on the piston I feel like that should be brought up to but I guess the 1st 3 rounds mean nothing
@jayblack2075 it was only talking about Finals opponents.
People remember the Nash years so wrong. In 2005 he tripled their previous wins output and in 2006 the team didn’t miss a beat despite amare missing 50+ games (off the top of my head so I could be wrong on the number). Amazing how we misremember that entire stretch and want to award 40 win teams
Amare missed basically the whole season and the Suns still finished 2nd in the West
That's nice but his teammate did everything except playmaking better
Shaq has a platform where he gets to shape the narrative on how Nash stole one of his MVPs.
In Canada, they actually have a community fundraisering event called Kraft Hockeyville in where they renovate a voted on community rink and the NHL play an exhibition game there. Maybe that's what the NBA can do with the court idea.
Sounds nice.
Sounds like it would be an event completely separate from all star weekend tho. Like genuinely you only need 10-12 nba players and they don’t have to be all stars
I'm tired of the Steve Nash disrespect. What he did in 05 is like if Dame randomly decided to join the Magic next year and all of a sudden they get 60 wins
Yup, that's true. Personally I feel the top 3 players in the MVP discussion all deserve it. There is a reason why they are their.
More like the Hornets, the Magic are actually decent when healthy.
@@KaseyC.not really they were healthy expect for Jonathan Issac
@@SnuggieMaple They have a 29-31 record when Markelle played, could easily end the season above .500 if he didn't miss the beginning of the season. In the 11 games where both Jonathan Isaac and Markelle played, they were 8-3. It wasn't just weak comp either, they beat Boston, Phillie, Minnesota and Denver in those 11 games, so half of their wins came against playoff teams, 3/8 against contenders. Just for a little more context, the Magic were 5-17 in games where Markelle didn't play.
It’s funny that the first dude didn’t add Shawn Kemp to Michael Jordan’s list because Shawn Kemp is not a hall of famer yet but he’ll add dudes that aren’t even hall of famers yet to Lebron James’ list.
Right and listed James Harden, Russ Westbrook, and Kawhi Leonard as hall of famers but they weren't in their prime yet during those years...biased af
Tbf Kemp retired 20 years ago and still isn’t in the HOF
@@darrellwilliams9168 TBF Ben Wallace was a 4 time DPOY and a Champion but wasn't inducted until a decade after he retired.
@@KaseyC. we at 2 decades now. It’s a large gap between 10 and 20 years of waiting
@@darrellwilliams9168 missed the point entirely. It just takes time with some guys for whatever reason, Ben Wallace just had a higher demand to be put in than Shawn Kemp.
The funny thing is I never heard anyone ever doubt Derrick Rose’s mvp until this year. That’s why this Years mvp race was the most annoying ever- Derrick rose just catching some strays for no reason
That's really not true at all. It's been talked about plenty of times over the years. LeBron definitely should have won it that year. The main issues were that people were vastly overrating the Heat's roster because of LeBron, Wade, & Bosh; completely overlooking the fact that the rest of the roster in 2011 was pretty trash.
Secondly, those awards are voted on by the media and LeBron was a villain to everyone at that time because of 'The Decision'. Which, while a stupid move that even he regrets, doesn't change what happens on the court. It also doesn't change the fact that too much of the awards are narrative driven and giving it to the league's new villain when there was some sort of out wasn't likely to happen.
@@randumo24 how can you say lebron "Definitely" should have won if ultimately he underperformed to expectations (that he set himself, mind you). The only argument is stat based, and that's not enough to counter the fact that D Rose had similar production, and a better record (Best in the league) with objectively less help. AND he made the conference finals, further validating his ability to lead towards success.
And then to downplay the firepower of Miami. It's not overrating the roster, it was PRECISELY rated, as evidenced by their trip to the finals. Because 3 all star/all NBA talents and decent 3&D rotational players is alot to handle. The only reason the heat lost in the finals was because of Lebron's meltdown, not a roster issue. Don't rewrite the narrative.
You can say other years where lebron should have won, but 2011 was Rose's year and it's indisputable
@@KxngKUDA no tf it wasn’t … bron had better numbers than d rose😂😂 nd yes the heat was overrated… bosh was not producing like that.
@@randumo24 Miami and the bulls had about the same number of wins that season but the perception was that lebron was in a super team so most of the success from the team came from that big 3 and not solely lebron. But the Bulls’ success came solely from Rose bcuz they didn’t have a big 3 or even a superstar like Lebron. Dwayne wade was an all star and all nba that season and Bosh was also an all star averaging 19ppg on 50%fg. They also made the finals, so I don’t think they were as trash as you think. Wade and Bosh def had a big contribution to that team
@@truthtella3371 he averaged nearly 20ppg on 50% shooting and 57%TS. His offense declined bcuz he was playing alongside lebron and Wade but cmon, he was def producing
The anger on the first guy as he cherrypicks bogus ratios...
As someone who makes takes on TikTok, my biggest fear is ending up on this video 😂
That Nash mvp one was so dumb, are we just forgetting that he took one of the worst teams in basketball to 60 wins the year after he gets there.
15 points and 10+ assists. put any of the top 50 oat on this team and it’s gonna win 70+. nash didn’t control the other players. they did their job. kobe averaged 35. even bron could’ve got the mvp at that point. with bron it would’ve been a record breaking team.
That MVP kid just ignoring context 😅
Draymond and Jimmy aren’t even HOFers
I kinda understand why people don’t think rose should’ve won, but his career was ruined due to injury and he would’ve been great for years to come, so at least he’s got one for people to remember
@@baltimoreborn36712potential hofers he means
@@nxslxttzye9751 I know that but saying they’ll be HOFers to give Bron better competition and not saying a guy like Shawn Kemp who technically isn’t in but deserves to be in is crazy
Soles with the Jason Kidd disrespect like he wasn’t what lonzo is supposed to be
The hall of fame guy forgot that kukoc is also in HoF
For his euro career not nba
@@TheIcemanthomas Oh really? I suppose thats fair then I guess I am wrong about that, not that it really matters to me, seeing as I think the whole goat debate is an unwinnable one anyway, its too subjective what people value. Also I didnt watch MJ play during his own time so who am I to judge, I only have the modern nba and euroleague (I am born in 2000 and from norway) to base my basketball perspective from, so cant really judge how good a player from the 90s was in his own time.
@@TheIcemanthomashow many rings Tony got?
@@TheIcemanthomas he’s still in the naismith hall of fame
When is baseball analytics finna translate to the NBA cuz in baseball everyone has something to bring to the table and can adequately justify their impact. But nba argument just feel like “HE GOT THE DOG IN HIM” or “BUT THE HESY TWEEN!!!!”. Just feels like putting others down to prop another up
“As you can see. The more you fuck around, the more you’re gonna FIND OUT NIGGA STOP PLAYING WITH BRON!” ✋🏾💪🏾
Couldn’t you argue that Jordan would’ve played more hall of famers if he lost more
Oh 100%, like with Shawn Kemp. Then the conversation we'd have around the already HoFers he faced like Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, Clyde, etc. would be massively different if they managed to win. Stockton's already a top 5/top 10 PG all time, imagine throwing in 2 rings on top of being the all time leader in assists and steals.
@Noah what no bruh? Some people are so stupid they only write no to a paragraph lol
The D Rose criticism is the best example of only looking at stats and ignoring context.
Id say the same about 2008 Kobe as well
I think that D rose won the MVP purely *because* of the context, because nobody wanted to vote for LeBron after The Decision and him joining up with 2 more stars
@@_CRUMP_ yea that’s all it was lbj was the villain at that time ppl were gonna vote for him 😂😂
@@_CRUMP_ Lebron had two other All NBA teammates that season. Derrick lead a team with no other all stars to the number one seed in the nba. Obviously Lebron should win a lot of games he was on a super team.
Lebron had the better season but Rose won it cause of the context that Bron went to the heat
Rule #1 of talking shit: You can talk as much as you want AS LONG AS you back it up
I'm so tired of everyone that says lebron deserves the MVP over DRose, because that year the bulls were the number one seed, with DRose as the primary scorer, and without him the bulls would've never been that good much less be the #1 seed in the same east as a prime Lebron and Dwade and Bosh. Drose was the more valuable to his team than lebron was to his, not by much but he was get over it.
They forget D Wade was in top ten in MVP Voting that year too. Lebron finished 3rd anyway Dwight was in 2nd
@@sonikmajor exactly but all they always want to talk about is how lebron's stats were better than DRose, (slightly better) mind you. That's the problem with the MVP voting now, it's much less about how valuable a player is to their team and more about who has better stats than who.
@@RatedGr8 "they base MVP voting off objective data and it's bad" is a wild take.
@@RatedGr8if you’re on the 2 seed team with more points assists rebounds better efficiency and better defense than the dude on the 1st seed you should get the mvp it’s that simple
MVP means Most Valuable Player to your team. D-rose didnt have 2 all-stars runnin with him. And Rose literally destroyed his body to win that MVP…driving to the hoop all the time. Never the same since…
Thank u for the reminder to not let NBA TikTok cook 🙏🙏
13:06 why would they forget about donovan's 71 point game he was two rebounds away from 70 point triple double
Solz a real one for that not too much on the blazers fr😂
I agree w/ SAS. They load manage him, then when he does play they don't know sometimes until the day of forcing last min changes to gameplans & rotations. Messing up chemistry. All that to HOPE he can make it through a playoff run. They would have a way clearer plan w/o having to worry about all of that
Watching this back, I can't decide if SOLZ just watches 🍀 & looks up stats & highlights for other teams/players OR he actually watching 😆
The Shaq>Ai argument was based more on a efficiency than defense. Not that I agree that Harden shouldve won but he did have one of the best offensive seasons of all time so its not rly the same situation
Let’s not act like Shaq was Hakeem Olajuwon on defense lol plus he had Kobe
@@X02Overdose exactly Shaq was a decent defender w the best frame ever
@@Threezus-zc4jzso we uplift jokic and give him mvp for getting a decent record without competent help and yet AI who had a worse team and got a better record doesn't deserve it gtho
@TheBigHumpher I’d surely hope a 7’1 350 center would play better defense than 6’0 guard lol
Kukuc got in for his international play, y'all this dumb?
Ben Wallace wasn’t on the pistons in 2007 when lebron faced them!!!!
Only reason he won that series
@@nathaniellilley5188 big ben would of gave lebron a run for his money but lebron would of still won
@@lfcfacupglory3111 like how he won the year earlier, right? Except he didn't. He lost when Ben was on the team
The first dudes logic is embarrassingly stupid😂
Bro that MVP tiktok segment was f**king hilarious!
Bro you couldnt have already watched it came out and u commented right away
@@nan32_26 yeah. I saw it. Problem?
Bro, Dirk deserved to get the MVP over Nash that 2005 season, but hey, Nash can have the 2006 MVP. D Rose deserved that MVP, AI deserved his MVP, and Giannis deserved his first MVP. I think the 2023 MVP is fraudulent and was given out of "pity."
@@harposhi I agree that Embiid didnt deserve it, but that's not what I was talking about? I was saying the vid came out and LITERALLY 1 min later you legitimately couldnt have watched it yet
@@nan32_26 I mean, what do you want me to do? Tell you the truth, or straight up lie? 🤣
@@nan32_26 ok chill, Embiid did deserve MVP. He checked off all the parameters for qualifying his case.
However, imo, Jokic should have won it. Because he also deserved it.
Most times, the top 3 MVP candidates are there deservedly so. That's the reality of it
And don't go mentioning the playoffs, I saw it too, and yes it was pitiful and inexcusable. But ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a regular season award.
I was confused with the first one because a big chunk of the players he named are not current HOF because they’re still active but he didn’t do the same for Shawn kemp.
Tbf a lot of them are obvious first ballot HoFers, but then there's also, like, Draymond and Jimmy. We can say they'll probably make it, or they should, but you can't say that they're gonna be first ballot like you can with a 2 time MVP
@@KaseyC. Ok but if Vlade Divac is a HOFer then Draymond and Jimmy are definitely making the HOF
A lot of what he said was completely biased tbh but there’s still a point to be made. Like yes what he said is true but bro was reaching when he added players like 2012 James Harden and an old Jason Kidd and bro acted like they were in their primes. He has a good point just needed a better way to go about it
@@XxNiNjAxX_777 Also he acts like the 92-93 Suns team was just Barkley when they had 3 other All-Stars in their prime.
@@unc54but they not HOF
I feel lebron had harder finals matches because all the competition his whole career has been in the WCF besides Boston and The Magic’s for like a year or 2 besides that he had the pg pacers and demar and lowry raptors as his only roadblocks to the finals for like 8 straight seasons oh and the Jeff Teague hawks 😂 Kobe Kobe faced more hofs in the wc to get to the finals than lebron ever had to to get to the finals
As a hawks fan Jeff Teague slander for whatever reason is always funny to me😂😂
lebrons comp in the NBA finals on average won 60 gms, MJs comp 61 wins average
@@m.j.w.2876 going off regular season wish is misleading. The Bulls were a harder team to face for the Cavs than the Hawks were but the Hawks won 60 games and the Bulls won 50. Outside of the Butler Heat every team Bron played in the finals had atleast 3 HOF on it. Jordan had harder comp going to the finals but Bron had the tougher comp in the finals
@@darrellwilliams9168 brings also had more help in all but 2 finals
@@darrellwilliams9168 yeah but basing it off just facing a hall of famer is way more misleading. Wow, LeBron had to face an old Tim Duncan, old Manu, Old Tony Parker, and a young Kawhi who openly considered himself a roleplayer at the time, Jason Kidd was 2 years off from retiring when LeBron faced him, James Harden was a roleplayer off the bench, etc. Whereas guys like Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Charles, etc., were all in their prime. Facing off against a 38 or 22 y/o HoFer is way different than a 27-33 y/o HoFer.
West brick and Jason Kid! Hahaha he doesn't put anything in context.
I like the HOF argument how he didn't count people who weren't HOF yet for Jordan but then turned around and counted everyone he thinks is going to be HOF for lerbron
Who did he name that went against lebron that will not be in the hall of fame? For shawn its been awhile so we might have to consider it wont happen
@abdoulaye9543 I'm not say it won't happen. I agree they will most likely make it. Curry and Durant will make it, but you could say the same thing about the people jordan went against they still have a chance to make the HOF but in the long run LeBron has had harder finals but easier paths to the finals.
I swear Sage is a causal and just piggy backs off of whatever Solz says 😂
Show time stamps you making it sounds like he just agrees with solz all the time when they don’t or are you mad people don’t care about Timmy rings
@@justsomedudewithnoneck8329 the amount of times he says some bs like " I was just about to say that" implies he has no opinions of his own and just piggy backs of the takes of others lmao
The first video forgot all the HoFs Jordan had to go through to get to the ECF
wanna know why lebron faced a ton of hall of famers in the finals? because the west was the better conference, that era in the east was THE weakest era of the eastern conference in NBA history
17:12 ok dudes from atlanta.. NEXT
The MVP one bothered me cuz he’s just looking at individual stats not the MVP cases itself smh
When he beat the pistons Ben Wallace wasn’t on the team.
That first dude trippin balls dawg 😭
Day 1 of begging for some volume level adjustments. I can't listen to yall in my car because Solz is blasting through my speakers cracking my windows and Sage is whispering.
Sage brings up a good point I’m gonna keep using for everything. Gotta compare the same exact seasons when doing the “if this player had this guys career he’d win x amount” can’t just drop in a peak player in any situation lmao
This is why nobody takes Lebron fans seriously 😂
Lebron has also played in more finals 😂
Sage a casual pre-01
Even if you swapped Curry and Dame, Curry would've never allowed himself to be boxed and packed up and swept by AD's Pelicans.
Lol sage should talk with a British accent for a whole video lmaooo
Sages hands at 22:55 🧐
So it’s Lebrons Fault that Lebron had to play against the Warriors who played 5 straight finals so that takes away other HOFers who could have made the Finals
That first take was soooo real tho.
I thought the first guy was gonna include tmac when he was on the spurs, but ig even he forgot about that time
Nah. Lbj had wade and bosh majority of the season and still ended up behind drose’s bulls. Bulls had the best record in the nba that year with noah and boozer in and out of the line up.
Drose deserved that mvp he did more with way less during the regular season. Noah and Boozer was missing games and they still was number 1 In the east
Sage my guy your British impersonation was just Jamaican 😭
I think people misunderstand the MVP. I get that it is named the most valuable player, but it is used to make new superstars as well. If the league wants to push someone, then MVP is given.
I disagree they mistake it for the best player in the league award. In which case 1 guy would win it for years in a row. The tiktok forgot to mention that D Rose had a better record than Lebron in the same conference while Lebron was playing with 2 HoFs in their prime and D Roses team was injury riddled that season.
@NBA YOUNGBOY agreed as well, but also in that season D Rose was slated to become the new face of the league. He was arguably more popular than LeBron that year
Popularity is viewed in many ways. Jersey sells is one way, but seeing how me and my friends and family don't buy Jerseys period,I don't care about them. I do know even if he didn't sell more then, he was definitely projected to be that guy and was given the MVP to bolster his notoriety. He also was given the distinction of being the youngest for that reason. Similarly to catapult Steph they gave him unanimous MVP which did wonders for his legacy.
@@hypie88yes he was in 2011 all anyone talked about is how Rose was the new face of the league and now he was going to bring lebron down
@@hypie88 stop it rose was absolutely that popular, lebron was still a villain and everyone that hated lebron got behind rose as he was the one player that everyone feared as much as lebron and had the best chance at bringing lebron down
lebrons finals opponents were harder but jordan’s road to the finals were harder
🧢
@@coopertodd28how
That’s because in jordan’s era the east was strong while the west was weak. Context matters. Jordan still the goat
I vividly remember Steve Nash’s MVP season in 2005, and he definitely deserved it. I wasn’t even paying attention to stats back then, but I was watching him play and he was killing teams left and right. He was pissing me off because my team could never seem to beat him. The Suns became the best team in the league out of nowhere once he joined. So I was not in the least bit surprised when he was named MVP lol
I don't know about the MVPs though. The reason I value MVP shares more than MVPs is because there is no strict criteria. 2017 Westbrook opens a whole can of worms. I like that Westbrook has an MVP, but in going Westbrook over Harden, you probably should have given Harden the MVP in 2019 and Curry in 2021. And if you give Giannis the MVP in 2019 as best player on best team, then why doesn't he get it again this year? MVP shares still have a lot of narrative issues, but the best players get rewarded through their consistency, so Kobe and Shaq each have 4 mvps instead of 1.
There are high school gyms with 7k capacities and a couple with 8k. All in Indiana.
Players could travel throughout the week and fans who areclosest to their respective gym can watch.
That first take was so bad😂 Jordan beat all 10 HOFers lebron beat less than 10 in more appearances.
First one was cooking I ran in the kitchen and stole a plate😂😂😂
When kawahi win 1 mvp let alone 2? (Finaks mvps are not mvp awards)
The immediate commentary on the third video was "bruv pip pip". Imagine if someone made a video featuring solz&sage and just started doing asian and black stereotypes lol
Scoot Henderson is the better pick than Wemby. Wemby can be a bust due to his size and him being skinny. Also, he is a Center that is lanky which can cause some problems when he gets backed up from dudes like Embiid. Unless he transforms into a forward, I see Scoot as the better pick.
Kawhi been one of my favourite players for time but he does get killed off screen a lot lol. Hope we ain't lose another one to injury
Shaq>AI while I don't hate the argument, saying it's about efficiency or defense is ridiculous. AI is an underrated defender and was considered a 2 way player at the time, he's just undersized. He's still better than league average. AI also took all the shots for his team and solo carried them to the finals and took a game off of the Lakers, he cemented his MVP status. Also Shaq isn't the greatest defender, a lot of his deficiencies were covered by his size and agility.
Want players to try do the mlb, all star game decides finals home court advantage, oh wait east would cry unfair and have to admit they are completely out talented by the west.....
People not even mentioning Bill Walton when talking the best Blazers of all time is insane
Let’s be fair Dwight is a HoFplayer
4:00 Ben wallace was not on the 07 pistons when he scored 25 straight
Bro was about right about the mvps
13:20 Clyde Drexler DID take the Blazers to the finals twice..
Fr Clyde is so underrated
Sage with the Home Depot mic
'Sandy cheeks' lol, damn SpongeBob doing his thing 🤣
People need to understand that “Most Valuable Player” ≠ Best Player.
4:05 we talking g about finals not Conference
WHO LET US COOK?!?!
At this point, contracts should pay on the basis of games played per season than a certain amount per year
half this shit jus comes down to the normal saying stats dont tell everything and sometimes they tell nothing😂😂
Solz is walking on HHH levels of heel right now
How do you count 2 people 9 times?
I think I'd point out in that lebron, Jordan debate is that jordan had to go through the pacers, magic, pistons, and Knicks in the east to reach the finals. Lebron had to go through the derozan raptors and 1 year of the pg pacers. I don't think Bron goes to 8 straight finals if the east wasn't total dog shit
and when he was younger he just played the pistons and celtics within the first two rounds every year which was a death sentence
@Vergil true but he never had a great team in those years. From 2010 to 2018 he had elite talent around him but with no competition. That pacers team took him to 7, other than that, the east was a cake walk every year. But we don't talk much about 80s jordan either. We're talking the years each dominated the league and who they had to go through. Jordan actually had to beat some teams in the east
@@dustinjones1346 oh i am talking about jordan
the first one involving hof competition is dumb cause Lebron lost to a lot of those half famers in the finals so I feel like its not as strong as people think it is. Yeah he played more but he also lost to them
Solz high pitch voice be making me wanting him to shi himself alone of the time
Don’t pay with Shawn kemp like that he catches bodies on and off the court
Shawn Kemp not being HOF is criminal.
Shorty playing the passing lanes on defense but tweaking on offense
Me:yea ......I would have been completely useless in that game
Yo, yall gotta change the disparity in volume between you two. Sage's mic is too low compared to Solz, or simply Solz is talking too close to his mic.
The MVP is not about who has the better stats around the league, it's about who makes the biggest difference for his team's success coz one might have 30,10,12 but has like 2 or 3 all-star team mates while the other has 26,7,9 but has no help , I believe the second one is the MVP
That era of pistons was called the Goin' to Work era by the way
All you need to know is that these come from TikTok, nothing good comes from TikTok.
19:39 this Stephen a clip aged like milk
Solz pls stop the Dwight Howard slander😂.You kno damn well he a HOF
point is that he was well out of his prime and pretty trash at that point of his career
isn’t James harden1x, Steph4x, kahwi2x, kd3x, Jimmy butler, and klay4x, bc they aren’t hof yet so that would be less for lbj , kinda like with Shawn kemp, 17=17
Thats friends hoodie🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
IF Portland Phoenix Seattle and Utah win those finals against Jordan wouldn't MORE guys of those teams be HOFers and THEN the narrative would be "look at how many HOFers Jordan faced" but since Jordan BEAT THEM people say "well he beat nobody" see how IMPORTANT the gap is between winning and losing in the finals 🤷🏾♂️
jumping to a whole bunch conclusions
@@trashawnw So you saying Draymond and Klay with ZERO rings would still be HOFers? 🤔
@@trashawnw What exactly makes Toni Kukoc a HOFer? 🤔
@@Tonio5100 Draymond and Klay would still have rings if they didn't play LeBron, or even if they lost all those times to him.
@@ryanlucca5324 That's not the question........ Would they be HOFers with zero rings? You avoiding answering the question let's me know your answer 🤷🏾♂️
Semi unpopular opinion. Dame is better than Allen Iverson. And I say that as a nigga who saw AI's whole career.
Let him cook
i wouldnt go that far, but i will say that ai is slightly overrated in terms of his actual play... impact wise, yes he brought a lot of new culture into the nba, but he was an incredibly inefficient player, even for his size, and wasnt as great as people remember him to be
for 2008 id say they got it right giving it to kobe especially when you factor in that they didnt get pau on that team till the trade deadline so he didnt even have a legit second star till there were 25 games left in the season but if it were to go to anybody else then it should have gone to cp3
cp3 is the 2008 mvp, yeah
These two boys are simple… funny AF. But at most 6 brain cells between them.
My man in the first one brought ratios
5:59 why in the fuck are we using efficiency in 2001 😂
when spongebob poked sandy's cheeks lol